True Patriot Love - Conservative MP Defects： Trouble for Poilievre’s Leadership？

00:00:00.240 Chris D'Entremont, a veteran MP from Nova Scotia, has just walked away from Pierre Paliyev's Conservatives and joined Mark Carney's Liberals.

00:00:08.420 One man switching sides might not sound like much, but in a post-election parliament, still trying to steady itself, it could signal something bigger.

00:00:16.900 Are the cracks starting to show inside the Conservative machine? I'm speaking with Jim Lang today about that very topic.

00:00:30.000 Jim Lang, thank you so much for being here.

00:00:37.160 Mike Wixen, a pleasure.

00:00:38.480 I don't know about you, I'm exhausted. I watched The Budget. You know what? It's so funny.

00:00:43.840 This week it was the Blue Jays till way too late at night.

00:00:46.680 Oh, don't hold it, it hurts.

00:00:47.880 Sorry about that, Blue Jays fans.

00:00:50.540 It still hurts.

00:00:51.380 And then last night, what is with me? I'm watching government television at 11.30 at night, re-watching The Budget.

00:01:00.200 Well, there is a good reason.

00:01:02.180 It's not very often in Canadian politics that we have almost a U.S.-style dramatic event unfold while the budget is coming out.

00:01:09.860 What a lot of people say are a generational budget for Mark Carney and the Liberals.

00:01:14.160 At the same time, a sitting Conservative MP crosses the floor to the Liberals, putting Carney just two votes short of a majority.

00:01:24.220 Chris D'Entremont has been an MP in Nova Scotia since 2019.

00:01:27.800 We'll allow him to explain what happened.

00:01:30.100 Listen to his words, they're very telling.

00:01:34.260 Making sure, yeah.

00:01:35.360 Mr. D'Entremont, Mike Liquiter with CTV News.

00:01:38.540 I wanted to ask you, what was the deciding factor in crossing the floor?

00:01:43.740 And if you could also indulge, how many other Conservatives in your caucus feel the same way that you do?

00:01:49.880 Well, let's start with the story of how I got here.

00:01:53.580 You know, I would think over the last number of months, I wasn't feeling that I was aligned with the ideals of what the leader of the opposition had been talking about.

00:02:04.340 So, I've been sort of re-looking at, you know, what my career is bringing and what I can do for my constituency.

00:02:12.720 So, over the last little bit, talking to many of my friends in the Liberal Party.

00:02:17.980 As Deputy Speaker, I get to know a lot of those members personally.

00:02:22.400 Ask questions, see what's going on, and understanding the point that we are in Canadian history, where we are, where it's time to actually try to lead a country, to try to make it better, and not try to knock it down.

00:02:44.400 Not to continue to be negative.

00:02:46.680 In my case, as a Nova Scotian, we're always trying to find ways to work together to solve the issues that are important to our communities.

00:02:55.040 And I didn't see it by sitting in the opposition.

00:02:57.900 I saw it by being a part of the government caucus.

00:03:02.360 I mean, he says a lot right there.

00:03:04.560 Chris is obviously frustrated at what was going on with Pierre Apoliev and the Conservatives.

00:03:10.000 And he's also saying the Liberals wooed him.

00:03:12.760 This was not a decision that was made that morning while he was having his coffee.

00:03:16.680 These are talks that have been happening weeks leading up to what happened yesterday.

00:03:20.180 Yeah, it feels very, it feels a little underhanded to me, in one sense, that, you know, he was voted as a Conservative.

00:03:27.960 Correct.

00:03:28.800 His constituents are expecting him to hold up that party line.

00:03:31.900 Meanwhile, he's spending his time getting to understand where he fits in the Liberal Party.

00:03:37.620 That's the one thing that struck me on this.

00:03:41.220 He doesn't come across too decisive, to be honest with you.

00:03:44.740 What strikes me is he got tired of the negative spin from Paliyev in the inner circle of the Conservatives.

00:03:51.420 When we're at a sort of a tipping point as a country and trying to get through COVID, trying to get through 51st State and Trump, trying to get through tariffs, trying to improve the country as a whole.

00:04:03.280 Well, he's trying to be a consensus builder.

00:04:05.660 And it was his words that he felt there was always negative and say no, and they wanted to build something.

00:04:12.220 So he went over with Carney, whether you agree with him or not.

00:04:15.180 That's his feeling.

00:04:16.120 That's his feeling.

00:04:16.900 And that also is something that Pierre Paliyev has to answer for.

00:04:21.520 It's got to explain, you know, his management style maybe isn't – people aren't buying what he's selling and his management style within his party.

00:04:29.860 And there has been a lot of well-placed political insiders who are intimating there are other MPs who may consider doing the same.

00:04:37.900 And when you're Carney and you're two votes short of a majority to do whatever you want, they're going to be putting on a full court press to get those who are on the fence.

00:04:46.480 You know they are.

00:04:47.160 It's funny that you say that because I wonder if this is the canary in the coal mine.

00:04:52.340 I think this may not be the last resistance we see within the party because, as you say, rumblings out there are pretty consistent over the last eight, nine weeks from political insiders saying this is starting to crumble a little bit underneath Paliyev.

00:05:07.820 And, of course, one of the things that I did notice that Chris said that I found really striking was it's not a time for opposition.

00:05:15.680 And we'll hear from him later on this.

00:05:17.160 It's not a time for negativity.

00:05:18.820 Well, the party is the opposition.

00:05:22.560 Yes, you need to look out for your constituents, and that means that you need to participate in government properly in that position.

00:05:28.760 But what really struck me as odd was that statement of it's not a time for negativity.

00:05:34.780 It's not a time for opposition.

00:05:36.400 It's a time to get on the other side.

00:05:39.420 And that's a pretty decisive thing to say.

00:05:43.260 The follow-up from this, the collateral damage of this, we don't even truly understand yet, Mike.

00:05:50.480 And, of course, do you think that it was kind of planted on this very special day?

00:05:54.940 It was almost like, I'm going to ruin Christmas for the opposition.

00:05:59.860 Without question.

00:06:00.920 I mean, Carney, even the day after, the morning after, you know, was smirking, talking to reporters about it.

00:06:08.240 He couldn't hide his pleasure.

00:06:10.320 Yeah.

00:06:10.520 The schadenfreude of how he felt towards Paliyev and the conservatives that this came out the same day as the budget.

00:06:17.080 I like that you used schadenfreude.

00:06:20.380 Yeah.

00:06:20.740 It's not used enough in podcasting.

00:06:22.820 It's a great example.

00:06:24.160 But this is exactly how he felt the day after.

00:06:27.140 Oh, I'm sorry for your misfortune.

00:06:28.940 Sorry for your misfortune.

00:06:30.200 Oh, well.

00:06:30.840 Yeah.

00:06:32.200 Look, here's the public polling is one thing, but the conservatives also have their internal polling.

00:06:37.980 The public polling is showing this consistently over the last month, that the liberals and conservatives are within two or three points of each other.

00:06:44.620 However, the polling, when it comes to leaders, Carney and Paliyev, Carney's leading by 20 points.

00:06:50.880 Consistently, he is 20 points ahead of Paliyev.

00:06:53.800 Now, even someone with the most rudimentary knowledge of Canadian politics would tell you that if you had a different leader, you have a chance to beat Carney and the liberals.

00:07:03.840 I wonder if this really is the tipping point.

00:07:05.840 We see this three or four more times, maybe not with MPs, but members of the party starting to walk away.

00:07:12.260 Maybe that becomes the moment where the party has to say, we need a different face on this.

00:07:18.240 You can't tell me that right now that there's a luncheon going on in Ottawa with some high-placed conservative power brokers and MPs having a serious conversation about the future peer Paliyev and the conservatives.

00:07:32.520 Can we win an election with Paliyev as a leader?

00:07:35.840 And right now, the math is not adding up that they can't win.

00:07:40.540 They'll always be 30, 40 votes short or a seat short of any kind of election win.

00:07:46.720 So unless they get a different leader, that won't change the math that they're dealing with right now.

00:07:51.060 It's so funny.

00:07:51.660 I went around the room and asked everybody, what's your biggest question about this whole thing with Chris Dantremont?

00:07:58.200 And, you know, the number one thing that I heard was, how is this possible?

00:08:04.840 Like, can he just announce that?

00:08:07.180 No, he can't just announce that he's crossing the floor to the liberals.

00:08:10.660 This is the process.

00:08:12.280 The MP has to resign from their party caucus.

00:08:15.680 And then, by the way, he has to send formal notice.

00:08:18.020 So this was sent in advance of yesterday.

00:08:20.900 Once it's accepted, which means that the party says, yeah, okay, you can quit, bye.

00:08:26.100 Yeah, yeah.

00:08:26.800 The next, they have to join another party's caucus, and they have to agree to it.

00:08:30.860 And in this case, of course, and they have to make a formal acceptance.

00:08:34.820 So...

00:08:35.220 Carney was not going to say no.

00:08:36.720 No, because it is great theater.

00:08:39.560 It's, you know, a really generally, historically, a great liberal market, you know, being represented.

00:08:46.840 And he wants it back.

00:08:48.160 So, of course, there was...

00:08:50.060 Now, it makes me wonder this as well.

00:08:52.320 All of this, you know, behind-the-scenes work, what did they promise him?

00:08:58.240 What will Chris come away with that is...

00:09:01.700 Well, he didn't just do it just to sit in the back benches.

00:09:04.160 I don't think so.

00:09:04.900 There's no chance that he's going to sit in the far back benches of the House of Commons after crossing the floor.

00:09:10.020 So, all of a sudden, when you see the TV shot of Carney, you may see Don Tremont's face over his left or right shoulder

00:09:16.560 in the camera shot that he has some sort of place within the Liberal caucus.

00:09:20.620 But the conversations, the power plays that are going on behind the scenes across the country are definitely happening.

00:09:28.940 And it's not just the Conservatives.

00:09:30.980 It's NDP.

00:09:32.320 It could be a Green Party.

00:09:33.760 It could be a Quebec Wall Party.

00:09:35.720 Who knows who it is going to be?

00:09:38.280 But then when they're this close, two votes short of a majority, to pass the budget and continue with their agenda,

00:09:45.380 you'd be crazy not to think this is...

00:09:47.300 We may see more of these within the next four or five weeks before the holiday break.

00:09:52.140 Talk about burying the headline.

00:09:53.540 I mean, yesterday, we watched Champagne read the entire budget, I think.

00:10:01.100 Yes.

00:10:01.780 I know you were like, oh, my eyes.

00:10:03.240 I can't take much work.

00:10:04.120 But having said that, they kind of buried the headline.

00:10:07.400 They might have come out with this first.

00:10:08.680 By the way, we've got somebody who's crossed the floor and now pay attention to why.

00:10:12.600 You know, I almost think that the order of this was really miscalculated.

00:10:16.980 No, no, no.

00:10:17.380 I say it's highly calculated by Carney and the Liberals because typically, historically, you're the Prime Minister.

00:10:24.540 You're the Finance Minister.

00:10:26.060 You table the budget in the House of Commons.

00:10:28.500 The whole rest of the day is the opposition talking about it.

00:10:32.620 Now, the same day that the budget's tabled and MP crosses the floor to the Liberals, that kind of has to be answered to.

00:10:41.620 So now you have two things to answer to so there's less focus on your criticism of the budget because everyone's going to answer for this MP on the same day who's now crossed the floor.

00:10:50.620 Let's have another look at another piece of video here with MP, Chris Dantremont.

00:10:57.340 Probably up in the direction he was going, but I'm just wondering whether the conservative leadership style perhaps pushed you out of caucus.

00:11:03.020 Well, I think that's probably a part of it.

00:11:05.460 I didn't find I was represented there.

00:11:07.980 My ideals of an Easterner, of a red Tory, I mean, quite honestly, of trying to find ways to find solutions and help your community rather than trying to oppose everything that's happening.

00:11:21.040 And I think that's the opportunity that's being offered by Prime Minister Carney and the government caucus is to help find solutions at this critical time for Canada.

00:11:31.040 It's just looking at leadership styles and whether we're doing the right thing for Canada or we're doing the right thing for ourselves.

00:11:38.340 I would rather be on the side of Canadians.

00:11:39.780 Now, that, the money line right there, doing the right thing for Canada or doing the right thing for ourselves, that is the ultimate shot at Pierre Baleev.

00:11:49.420 It is, and it kind of buys him a little bit of time in his own riding, I think, to explain himself.

00:11:53.260 Yes, right.

00:11:53.900 Because he's got to do a little bit of back campaigning now, I think.

00:11:57.360 I mean, his constituents in his own riding are going to be like, wait, wait, wait, hold on, what happened?

00:12:01.460 We voted for a conservative guy.

00:12:03.460 What are you doing?

00:12:04.280 And he's going to have to go back now and he's going to have to market himself backward, I think.

00:12:08.080 So next week, I'll be in Nova Scotia visiting some family.

00:12:11.340 And a big part of the budget is $51 billion for infrastructure, for development.

00:12:15.260 And anyone who spent time in Nova Scotia know that there's key highways, the 101, the 102, other key highways in Nova Scotia that need infrastructure work, that need improving, widening.

00:12:25.700 The province is growing.

00:12:26.700 So now he's part of a government that's trying to take some of that $51 billion, pour it into Nova Scotia, who watches a lot of times the money going to the lower mainland of BC, to the Golden Horseshoe, to the Montreal-Quebec City corridor.

00:12:41.140 And they're hoping maybe some of that infrastructure money will be used in Nova Scotia.

00:12:45.380 Man, you raise a good point.

00:12:46.400 It's hard to be the opposition to a bunch of money being spent in your province.

00:12:49.880 And a province that needs the money, that needs the infrastructure, that has seen a lot of growth.

00:12:56.040 And now in Nova Scotia, there are people commuting 45 minutes, an hour, an hour and a half into Halifax-Dartmouth for work, which was unheard of 10 years ago.

00:13:04.600 In that clip, he talks about not feeling represented.

00:13:07.400 Right now, I have to ask, is that a sentiment?

00:13:10.580 Like you say, a direct shot of Paulyev out of that clip, but buried within it, he says, you know, I didn't feel, not that I was or wasn't, I didn't feel that my constituents were best represented, that I think were best represented as part of the nation.

00:13:27.500 I would love to sit down and have a coffee or tea with some of these MPs in private and ask them that very question off the record.

00:13:34.820 Hey, what do you think?

00:13:35.740 Because a lot of them won't speak on the record.

00:13:37.640 Well, apparently Paulyev won't.

00:13:38.980 Yeah, Paulyev won't, yeah.

00:13:40.580 It was left to Melissa Lansman and Aaron Gunn and other MPs.

00:13:43.860 She didn't really answer it either, in all fairness.

00:13:45.420 She kind of addressed it for a second and then wanted to get back to this budget.

00:13:49.440 Because historically, that's how the opposition makes their bones as responding to, but they couldn't.

00:13:55.520 They had to answer.

00:13:56.080 You know, I wish that there was some leadership on the conservative side that was making a difference.

00:14:03.940 But I wonder, and maybe Paulyev is, but I wonder if Canadians' perception of it and, frankly, his own party members' perception of him is that he's been standing up barking like a dog for too many years and not getting anywhere.

00:14:17.300 That is, look, when the public perceives that, it's awfully difficult to change that.

00:14:22.540 And his, frankly, the polling, which I rarely buy into, is a little obvious as well.

00:14:28.380 And that's the thing.

00:14:29.380 It's the likability trust poll that keeps saying, who do you trust more?

00:14:34.300 Who's the more likable?

00:14:35.420 Who's the more reasonable prime minister?

00:14:37.780 And Carney is polling 20 points higher every week.

00:14:41.380 And that's not by accident.

00:14:43.220 Now, where do they draw their next leader from if they decide to remove Paulyev?

00:14:47.200 Now, that's a great question.

00:14:48.380 Now, I'm a big fan of Rona Ambrose, who is a likely candidate, a longtime MP, deep roots out west, a brilliant politician, a brilliant parliamentarian, a very smart woman.

00:15:02.320 We need more women in this country in seats of power. 1.00

00:15:07.000 They have to cast a wide net.

00:15:09.600 They need to get someone.

00:15:11.560 I believe so.

00:15:12.880 It's not just the next leader of the Conservative Party candidate.

00:15:16.360 It's the next leader, they believe, who could win an election.

00:15:20.280 That is the biggest challenge for the Conservatives, is to put aside ego, put aside your biases and go, okay, no matter what you think of that person, could they beat Carney and the Liberals in the election?

00:15:33.160 That's the big question.

00:15:34.140 The other thing that Carney has up against him at the moment is Alberta.

00:15:37.640 I mean, they really have lost faith in, I mean, that is just the basic structure and framework of the Conservative Party.

00:15:47.700 And a lot of their base is right there.

00:15:50.620 And it seems like they're losing to the notion that Alberta should just do something completely on its own.

00:15:55.220 However, here's how Carney can basically negate that.

00:15:58.220 He's talking about $51 billion for infrastructure.

00:16:00.940 And he talked about an ability to bypass some of the no-pipeline laws that if it's clean, he talked about clean, liquefied natural gas.

00:16:12.180 So it wants to prevent him from building a liquid natural gas pipeline from Alberta to Churchill, Manitoba, to ship to Europe, and it qualifies under his clean natural gas, liquefied natural gas.

00:16:23.740 All of a sudden, Alberta will think pretty good of him because now they have a pipeline shipping their resources to Churchill to sell to Europe.

00:16:30.680 I'll tell you what, I'm going to leave it to the Gooch, Paul Macucci.

00:16:34.160 Yes.

00:16:35.000 He's going to get in-depth, in-depth with the budget.

00:16:38.980 But you're right.

00:16:39.480 I think on the West Coast, that's likely where a leader comes from, from that party.

00:16:44.220 But they need to be somebody that is really ensconced in the resources, really ensconced in what's happening across the country at the grassroots rather than what I think is perceived often.

00:16:56.820 And even if it's not, Pierre Polyev is in – the poor guy is in a position, frankly, where he has been barking for so long on the other side of the fence.

00:17:03.940 People have tuned him out.

00:17:05.160 That the tune-out is massive.

00:17:06.840 In a fresh voice, it's in sports.

00:17:10.340 He makes great points.

00:17:11.500 He makes great sense.

00:17:12.660 Okay, but you could be the greatest coach in the world.

00:17:15.920 Eventually, the players stop listening.

00:17:17.880 Yeah.

00:17:18.160 So you need a new voice.

00:17:19.640 And it's no different in business, in whatever.

00:17:22.980 And in any walk of life, eventually, you need a different voice, a different face to lead the company, lead the party, lead the team.

00:17:30.500 This is where the conservatives are right now.

00:17:33.040 He didn't win a seat.

00:17:34.380 He had basically in limbo in the summer.

00:17:36.580 He wins a by-election out west in Crowfoot in Alberta.

00:17:40.300 Good on him.

00:17:40.960 That was heavily protested as well.

00:17:42.720 Heavily protested.

00:17:43.540 Still managed to do it.

00:17:44.340 But you have to think, would we be better off, if you're the conservatives, with a different leader, with a different voice, a different style, a different leadership style, and a different vision to Canada?

00:17:57.560 Would that play better?

00:17:58.760 So that's the big challenge.

00:18:00.920 Maybe even just a new playbook, Jim.

00:18:02.360 I mean, maybe a new way of representing.

00:18:04.460 Yes.

00:18:04.580 And I don't know if current leadership could pivot slightly with how they speak to Canadians and how they address the government in Parliament.

00:18:13.520 As far as I can see, the Polyev... 1.00

00:18:15.680 Very argumentative, indeed.

00:18:16.820 Right.

00:18:17.100 So Polyev and the current inner circle are very set on their way of doing things.

00:18:21.800 So we saw Polyev back in the House of Commons.

00:18:25.240 Was he a changed man?

00:18:27.300 Not really.

00:18:28.120 No.

00:18:28.500 No.

00:18:28.640 So you saw basically a hiatus.

00:18:30.900 He's back.

00:18:31.340 He's the same guy.

00:18:32.520 So the conservatives didn't win under him last time with that tactic, and he's back to doing the same thing.

00:18:38.480 So that tells me that the conservatives have no choice but to pick a new leader, a new face, a new voice, a new way of governing the country.

00:18:48.160 They have to prove to Canada that they have a leader who can govern.

00:18:52.320 Because right now, all the polling is, they like the conservatives.

00:18:55.640 They like a lot of what they have to say and a lot of their topics and a lot of their ideas.

00:19:00.340 They just don't like the leader.

00:19:02.000 And, you know, the other thing that I noticed is in Ontario, anyway, we've got Doug Ford really putting mud on the lens of the Conservative Party.

00:19:08.820 Because from his Conservative leadership in Ontario, he's up against Polyev a lot. 0.97

00:19:14.680 Like, although the parties are not aligned necessarily, you expect them to some degree to support one another, and there's very little love there.

00:19:22.360 Mike, anyone not from Ontario have to understand how powerful Doug Ford and the Conservatives are in Ontario.

00:19:30.660 Ford Nation, man.

00:19:31.640 Ford Nation is a real thing. 0.58

00:19:33.520 So for Polyev not to break bread with Ford, make peace before the election, is one of the silliest moves ever.

00:19:41.560 To not have Ontario's support is crazy.

00:19:44.440 He's basically going fishing with Carney, I think.

00:19:46.780 You know, they've become real close buddies.

00:19:49.100 They go to the cottage, they have dinner together.

00:19:51.860 Ontario has 16 million people, almost half the country.

00:19:55.640 You win Ontario in a federal election, you basically win the election.

00:19:59.560 So you need the support of the sitting Premier and the party.

00:20:03.340 And to have the most powerful Conservative Premier in the country not supporting the Conservatives in elections seems ludicrous to me.

00:20:11.160 Because you didn't take the time to go, you know what, let's come to a peace agreement, let's have a truce, let's work for the better good of Canada.

00:20:19.160 But Polyev's ego wouldn't let him do it.

00:20:21.280 I think we drew the right straw talking about Chris Dantremont because the budget discussion, I think, is going to go several episodes.

00:20:27.820 Oh, yes.

00:20:28.540 By the way, stay with the network because we will have up-to-date content probably over the coming days, I would imagine.

00:20:36.240 It will take days to sort through it.

00:20:37.680 And there will be a lot of conjecture, I'm sure, between here and there.

00:20:41.180 And the fact that part of the budget is to try to get the CBC to host Eurovision.

00:20:45.560 Did you see that?

00:20:46.220 I saw that, yeah.

00:20:47.440 So let's see.

00:20:49.160 Eurovision in Canada.

00:20:50.260 Let's see what we can have happen here.

00:20:52.240 Will people actually be buying a CBC product finally?

00:20:54.760 Who knows?

00:20:55.440 Well.

00:20:56.400 Good Lord.

00:20:57.760 Jim, thanks.

00:20:58.420 I really appreciate this.

00:20:59.540 Thanks for joining us.

00:21:00.340 Don't forget to subscribe.

00:21:01.360 Go to tplmedia.ca where you can subscribe to all the content.

00:21:05.840 Oh, yeah.

00:21:06.260 Don't forget to get your poppy.

00:21:07.160 Get your poppy. 1.00

00:21:08.320 And we'll see you next time.

00:21:09.980 Thank you.

True Patriot Love - November 05, 2025

Conservative MP Defects： Trouble for Poilievre’s Leadership？

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