00:00:00.240Chris D'Entremont, a veteran MP from Nova Scotia, has just walked away from Pierre Paliyev's Conservatives and joined Mark Carney's Liberals.
00:00:08.420One man switching sides might not sound like much, but in a post-election parliament, still trying to steady itself, it could signal something bigger.
00:00:16.900Are the cracks starting to show inside the Conservative machine? I'm speaking with Jim Lang today about that very topic.
00:00:30.000Jim Lang, thank you so much for being here.
00:01:35.360Mr. D'Entremont, Mike Liquiter with CTV News.
00:01:38.540I wanted to ask you, what was the deciding factor in crossing the floor?
00:01:43.740And if you could also indulge, how many other Conservatives in your caucus feel the same way that you do?
00:01:49.880Well, let's start with the story of how I got here.
00:01:53.580You know, I would think over the last number of months, I wasn't feeling that I was aligned with the ideals of what the leader of the opposition had been talking about.
00:02:04.340So, I've been sort of re-looking at, you know, what my career is bringing and what I can do for my constituency.
00:02:12.720So, over the last little bit, talking to many of my friends in the Liberal Party.
00:02:17.980As Deputy Speaker, I get to know a lot of those members personally.
00:02:22.400Ask questions, see what's going on, and understanding the point that we are in Canadian history, where we are, where it's time to actually try to lead a country, to try to make it better, and not try to knock it down.
00:02:46.680In my case, as a Nova Scotian, we're always trying to find ways to work together to solve the issues that are important to our communities.
00:02:55.040And I didn't see it by sitting in the opposition.
00:02:57.900I saw it by being a part of the government caucus.
00:03:28.800His constituents are expecting him to hold up that party line.
00:03:31.900Meanwhile, he's spending his time getting to understand where he fits in the Liberal Party.
00:03:37.620That's the one thing that struck me on this.
00:03:41.220He doesn't come across too decisive, to be honest with you.
00:03:44.740What strikes me is he got tired of the negative spin from Paliyev in the inner circle of the Conservatives.
00:03:51.420When we're at a sort of a tipping point as a country and trying to get through COVID, trying to get through 51st State and Trump, trying to get through tariffs, trying to improve the country as a whole.
00:04:03.280Well, he's trying to be a consensus builder.
00:04:05.660And it was his words that he felt there was always negative and say no, and they wanted to build something.
00:04:12.220So he went over with Carney, whether you agree with him or not.
00:04:16.900And that also is something that Pierre Paliyev has to answer for.
00:04:21.520It's got to explain, you know, his management style maybe isn't – people aren't buying what he's selling and his management style within his party.
00:04:29.860And there has been a lot of well-placed political insiders who are intimating there are other MPs who may consider doing the same.
00:04:37.900And when you're Carney and you're two votes short of a majority to do whatever you want, they're going to be putting on a full court press to get those who are on the fence.
00:04:47.160It's funny that you say that because I wonder if this is the canary in the coal mine.
00:04:52.340I think this may not be the last resistance we see within the party because, as you say, rumblings out there are pretty consistent over the last eight, nine weeks from political insiders saying this is starting to crumble a little bit underneath Paliyev.
00:05:07.820And, of course, one of the things that I did notice that Chris said that I found really striking was it's not a time for opposition.
00:05:15.680And we'll hear from him later on this.
00:06:32.200Look, here's the public polling is one thing, but the conservatives also have their internal polling.
00:06:37.980The public polling is showing this consistently over the last month, that the liberals and conservatives are within two or three points of each other.
00:06:44.620However, the polling, when it comes to leaders, Carney and Paliyev, Carney's leading by 20 points.
00:06:50.880Consistently, he is 20 points ahead of Paliyev.
00:06:53.800Now, even someone with the most rudimentary knowledge of Canadian politics would tell you that if you had a different leader, you have a chance to beat Carney and the liberals.
00:07:03.840I wonder if this really is the tipping point.
00:07:05.840We see this three or four more times, maybe not with MPs, but members of the party starting to walk away.
00:07:12.260Maybe that becomes the moment where the party has to say, we need a different face on this.
00:07:18.240You can't tell me that right now that there's a luncheon going on in Ottawa with some high-placed conservative power brokers and MPs having a serious conversation about the future peer Paliyev and the conservatives.
00:07:32.520Can we win an election with Paliyev as a leader?
00:07:35.840And right now, the math is not adding up that they can't win.
00:07:40.540They'll always be 30, 40 votes short or a seat short of any kind of election win.
00:07:46.720So unless they get a different leader, that won't change the math that they're dealing with right now.
00:10:26.060You table the budget in the House of Commons.
00:10:28.500The whole rest of the day is the opposition talking about it.
00:10:32.620Now, the same day that the budget's tabled and MP crosses the floor to the Liberals, that kind of has to be answered to.
00:10:41.620So now you have two things to answer to so there's less focus on your criticism of the budget because everyone's going to answer for this MP on the same day who's now crossed the floor.
00:10:50.620Let's have another look at another piece of video here with MP, Chris Dantremont.
00:10:57.340Probably up in the direction he was going, but I'm just wondering whether the conservative leadership style perhaps pushed you out of caucus.
00:11:03.020Well, I think that's probably a part of it.
00:11:05.460I didn't find I was represented there.
00:11:07.980My ideals of an Easterner, of a red Tory, I mean, quite honestly, of trying to find ways to find solutions and help your community rather than trying to oppose everything that's happening.
00:11:21.040And I think that's the opportunity that's being offered by Prime Minister Carney and the government caucus is to help find solutions at this critical time for Canada.
00:11:31.040It's just looking at leadership styles and whether we're doing the right thing for Canada or we're doing the right thing for ourselves.
00:11:38.340I would rather be on the side of Canadians.
00:11:39.780Now, that, the money line right there, doing the right thing for Canada or doing the right thing for ourselves, that is the ultimate shot at Pierre Baleev.
00:11:49.420It is, and it kind of buys him a little bit of time in his own riding, I think, to explain himself.
00:12:04.280And he's going to have to go back now and he's going to have to market himself backward, I think.
00:12:08.080So next week, I'll be in Nova Scotia visiting some family.
00:12:11.340And a big part of the budget is $51 billion for infrastructure, for development.
00:12:15.260And anyone who spent time in Nova Scotia know that there's key highways, the 101, the 102, other key highways in Nova Scotia that need infrastructure work, that need improving, widening.
00:12:26.700So now he's part of a government that's trying to take some of that $51 billion, pour it into Nova Scotia, who watches a lot of times the money going to the lower mainland of BC, to the Golden Horseshoe, to the Montreal-Quebec City corridor.
00:12:41.140And they're hoping maybe some of that infrastructure money will be used in Nova Scotia.
00:12:46.400It's hard to be the opposition to a bunch of money being spent in your province.
00:12:49.880And a province that needs the money, that needs the infrastructure, that has seen a lot of growth.
00:12:56.040And now in Nova Scotia, there are people commuting 45 minutes, an hour, an hour and a half into Halifax-Dartmouth for work, which was unheard of 10 years ago.
00:13:04.600In that clip, he talks about not feeling represented.
00:13:07.400Right now, I have to ask, is that a sentiment?
00:13:10.580Like you say, a direct shot of Paulyev out of that clip, but buried within it, he says, you know, I didn't feel, not that I was or wasn't, I didn't feel that my constituents were best represented, that I think were best represented as part of the nation.
00:13:27.500I would love to sit down and have a coffee or tea with some of these MPs in private and ask them that very question off the record.
00:13:56.080You know, I wish that there was some leadership on the conservative side that was making a difference.
00:14:03.940But I wonder, and maybe Paulyev is, but I wonder if Canadians' perception of it and, frankly, his own party members' perception of him is that he's been standing up barking like a dog for too many years and not getting anywhere.
00:14:17.300That is, look, when the public perceives that, it's awfully difficult to change that.
00:14:22.540And his, frankly, the polling, which I rarely buy into, is a little obvious as well.
00:14:48.380Now, I'm a big fan of Rona Ambrose, who is a likely candidate, a longtime MP, deep roots out west, a brilliant politician, a brilliant parliamentarian, a very smart woman.
00:15:02.320We need more women in this country in seats of power.
00:15:12.880It's not just the next leader of the Conservative Party candidate.
00:15:16.360It's the next leader, they believe, who could win an election.
00:15:20.280That is the biggest challenge for the Conservatives, is to put aside ego, put aside your biases and go, okay, no matter what you think of that person, could they beat Carney and the Liberals in the election?
00:15:34.140The other thing that Carney has up against him at the moment is Alberta.
00:15:37.640I mean, they really have lost faith in, I mean, that is just the basic structure and framework of the Conservative Party.
00:15:47.700And a lot of their base is right there.
00:15:50.620And it seems like they're losing to the notion that Alberta should just do something completely on its own.
00:15:55.220However, here's how Carney can basically negate that.
00:15:58.220He's talking about $51 billion for infrastructure.
00:16:00.940And he talked about an ability to bypass some of the no-pipeline laws that if it's clean, he talked about clean, liquefied natural gas.
00:16:12.180So it wants to prevent him from building a liquid natural gas pipeline from Alberta to Churchill, Manitoba, to ship to Europe, and it qualifies under his clean natural gas, liquefied natural gas.
00:16:23.740All of a sudden, Alberta will think pretty good of him because now they have a pipeline shipping their resources to Churchill to sell to Europe.
00:16:30.680I'll tell you what, I'm going to leave it to the Gooch, Paul Macucci.
00:16:39.480I think on the West Coast, that's likely where a leader comes from, from that party.
00:16:44.220But they need to be somebody that is really ensconced in the resources, really ensconced in what's happening across the country at the grassroots rather than what I think is perceived often.
00:16:56.820And even if it's not, Pierre Polyev is in – the poor guy is in a position, frankly, where he has been barking for so long on the other side of the fence.
00:17:44.340But you have to think, would we be better off, if you're the conservatives, with a different leader, with a different voice, a different style, a different leadership style, and a different vision to Canada?
00:18:04.580And I don't know if current leadership could pivot slightly with how they speak to Canadians and how they address the government in Parliament.
00:18:32.520So the conservatives didn't win under him last time with that tactic, and he's back to doing the same thing.
00:18:38.480So that tells me that the conservatives have no choice but to pick a new leader, a new face, a new voice, a new way of governing the country.
00:18:48.160They have to prove to Canada that they have a leader who can govern.
00:18:52.320Because right now, all the polling is, they like the conservatives.
00:18:55.640They like a lot of what they have to say and a lot of their topics and a lot of their ideas.
00:19:02.000And, you know, the other thing that I noticed is in Ontario, anyway, we've got Doug Ford really putting mud on the lens of the Conservative Party.
00:19:08.820Because from his Conservative leadership in Ontario, he's up against Polyev a lot.
00:19:14.680Like, although the parties are not aligned necessarily, you expect them to some degree to support one another, and there's very little love there.
00:19:22.360Mike, anyone not from Ontario have to understand how powerful Doug Ford and the Conservatives are in Ontario.
00:19:33.520So for Polyev not to break bread with Ford, make peace before the election, is one of the silliest moves ever.
00:19:41.560To not have Ontario's support is crazy.
00:19:44.440He's basically going fishing with Carney, I think.
00:19:46.780You know, they've become real close buddies.
00:19:49.100They go to the cottage, they have dinner together.
00:19:51.860Ontario has 16 million people, almost half the country.
00:19:55.640You win Ontario in a federal election, you basically win the election.
00:19:59.560So you need the support of the sitting Premier and the party.
00:20:03.340And to have the most powerful Conservative Premier in the country not supporting the Conservatives in elections seems ludicrous to me.
00:20:11.160Because you didn't take the time to go, you know what, let's come to a peace agreement, let's have a truce, let's work for the better good of Canada.
00:20:19.160But Polyev's ego wouldn't let him do it.
00:20:21.280I think we drew the right straw talking about Chris Dantremont because the budget discussion, I think, is going to go several episodes.