True Patriot Love - CUSMA July Showdown： Carney vs Trump - Part 1

00:00:00.000 Today on True Patriot Love, we're going to delve into the negotiations of Kuzma.

00:00:09.520 And today I have Jim Lang with me. Welcome, Jim.

00:00:11.880 Hello. Hey, Paul.

00:00:12.940 So this has been a controversial conversation that has not just started, you know, in the last two years, Jim.

00:00:19.420 This has gone on for decades.

00:00:22.140 Yeah, to the 1980s.

00:00:23.380 Yeah, 1984 was, I think, when NAFTA started, right?

00:00:27.340 That was the signing of NAFTA, right?

00:00:29.240 Yeah, so Free Trade, it was originally called Free Trade with Brian Mulroney and Ronald Reagan.

00:00:34.680 And they were shaking hands and singing when Irish eyes were smiling.

00:00:38.580 And people in Canada were quite upset with the whole concept of Free Trade.

00:00:42.260 And then lo and behold, John Chrétien and Bill Clinton in 1994 finalized the evolution of Free Trade, which is NAFTA.

00:00:50.000 Well, yeah, and let's talk about, so personalities a little bit.

00:00:52.800 And that's what I wanted to kind of, you know, this is show one out of two or three that we're going to do on Kuzma.

00:00:57.940 And I really wanted to focus a little bit of this show on the history of how it started.

00:01:02.780 So that's great.

00:01:04.660 You know, Ronald Reagan, right?

00:01:06.620 Film actor, did 50 movies, you know, was the governor of California, right?

00:01:14.280 Got shot by Hinckley in 81 or whatever it was.

00:01:18.180 You know, he was quite a character, you know, and I think there's so many stories.

00:01:23.740 You know, after he got shot and they rushed him to the hospital, he looked up and he said to the surgeon, you know, I hope you're Republican.

00:01:29.640 Yeah.

00:01:30.000 Right?

00:01:30.280 So the guy had a really good sense of humor and Brian Mulroney, you know, equal sense of humor.

00:01:36.620 So people, you know, the Cadillac candidate, they used to call him.

00:01:40.580 So, you know, the idea of Free Trade and NAFTA really originated, you know, first of all, with Ronald Reagan.

00:01:47.620 And Ronald Reagan had a number of policies that did really well for the U.S. and hurt the U.S.

00:01:53.120 So Reaganomics, right?

00:01:55.340 Reaganomics.

00:01:56.340 Still talked about to this day.

00:01:57.860 Still talked about to this day, you know, but left consequences, high deficits, wage inequalities.

00:02:03.840 There were some things about Reaganomics that weren't so pretty.

00:02:06.220 But, you know, he was in a tough time, right?

00:02:08.620 The world was seeing crazy inflation and interest and all these things happening.

00:02:14.540 And he needed to react to probably unprecedented waters, right?

00:02:17.960 But he did truthfully believe that free trade between Mexico, Canada, and the United States was the way to go.

00:02:25.200 And he was a champion of it until he passed away.

00:02:28.580 You know, and I got to tell you, it's a funny thing.

00:02:30.180 The thing I remember the most about Ronald Reagan, because living in the States for years, they used to tell this crazy story about how he went to, he loved slippers.

00:02:38.780 Yes.

00:02:39.360 Right?

00:02:39.720 You see photos of an Air Force One in slippers.

00:02:41.840 In slippers.

00:02:42.260 He went to do a national defense speech, you know, you know, when he sits in the mobile office behind the desk.

00:02:48.600 And they shot down by accident on him, and he was wearing bunny slippers.

00:02:54.200 You know, again, true characters.

00:02:56.740 But, you know, those were the characters that actually had the vision to create this and to figure out that as North Americans, we needed to work together.

00:03:05.340 Right?

00:03:05.740 And real quick, I mean, for people who don't realize it, towards the end of Jimmy Carter's administration in the late 70s, the American economy was in very, very tough shape.

00:03:16.580 Then you had the Iran hostage scandal.

00:03:19.580 Yeah.

00:03:19.740 So their morale, post-Vietnam War, all these Americans held hostage in Tehran.

00:03:25.140 The economy's in a shambles.

00:03:26.580 As you alluded to, the interest rates are skyrocketing.

00:03:29.320 It was really, really rough times.

00:03:32.500 Yeah.

00:03:32.740 And Reagan basically grabbed the country by the bootstraps and found a way to turn things around. 0.96

00:03:38.300 Was trying to find ways to get things built, to get the economy going, to make money move back and forth for the betterment of the United States.

00:03:47.000 Yeah.

00:03:47.340 Win-win for the Gipper, right?

00:03:48.760 Right.

00:03:49.100 You know, and the Dutchman comes and off the economy goes again. 1.00

00:03:52.660 And it did a 180.

00:03:54.840 Yeah.

00:03:55.120 He invested the money when no one would with Lee Iacocca and Chrysler.

00:03:59.720 They invent the cake car and the minivan, and it saved Chrysler.

00:04:03.820 It saved all those manufacturing jobs in Detroit and Windsor.

00:04:08.180 Yeah.

00:04:08.820 Oh, I know.

00:04:09.700 Well, you know, and I don't want to leave Mulroney out because, you know, Mulroney takes a little bit of a weird, how do I say it?

00:04:16.640 He has a weird part of our history, and I think that's probably the way he went out of government.

00:04:21.100 Yes.

00:04:21.580 Yeah, it didn't.

00:04:22.140 It wasn't great.

00:04:22.740 You know, the end of his career was not so great in the fact that, you know, the hotel room and, you know, Fred dissed in the bag of 300,000 and the autobus scandal, right?

00:04:34.520 Yeah.

00:04:34.840 So that kind of dwarfs kind of his legacy a little bit.

00:04:38.160 But I think, quite frankly, people forget, you know, he was a true champion of NAFTA and Free Trade.

00:04:45.560 Absolutely.

00:04:46.000 He was the one, and the signing, you know, you mentioned to me, Kretchen, who came right after.

00:04:53.220 So, you know, it's interesting because Mulroney did a lot of the heavy lifting on it, and then, you know, GST, I think GST was the killer for him.

00:05:01.720 Yes, it was.

00:05:02.400 Yeah, GST was...

00:05:03.440 It's still here.

00:05:04.180 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:05:04.980 I mean, I remember Kretchen saying he was going to get rid of it all these years later.

00:05:08.440 It's still here.

00:05:09.060 Yeah, it is.

00:05:10.240 But, you know, interesting because that was the thing that was the nail in the coffin politically and then the side scandals that happened after.

00:05:17.600 But, you know, did a yeoman's task to get us to where we are today and where we have been.

00:05:25.000 And, you know, so then Kretchen and Bill Clinton, who you mentioned earlier, right, step up.

00:05:31.580 And the Mexican president, I'm trying to think who it is, it'll come to me in a minute.

00:05:35.960 It was before Maduro, I think, right?

00:05:38.080 Salinas.

00:05:38.740 Yes, correct.

00:05:39.420 Salinas.

00:05:40.080 So they step up and they sit down and there was a negotiation between, it was Mulroney and Bush and Salinas who did 14 months of heavy lifting on this, right?

00:05:56.380 Laid the foundation.

00:05:57.340 And then Clinton came in and Clinton's big thing on this one for my member was environment and labor rights.

00:06:05.280 So where he was, he was kind of offside with Bush.

00:06:09.480 Bush, you know, I think we all remember Bush Senior, right?

00:06:12.740 Because Bush Senior war hero pilot, you know, Second World War.

00:06:19.260 Former head of the CIA.

00:06:20.260 Former head of the CIA, a millionaire by the age of 40.

00:06:24.100 In those days, a millionaire was a lot.

00:06:26.660 He was kind of one of the few millionaires that people knew and very successful guy, right?

00:06:31.200 He made a lot of money and quite frankly, financed his own real run for the Oval Office, right?

00:06:37.500 So he did a lot of leg with heavy lifting and then he went out, Bill Clinton comes in and it was interesting.

00:06:44.180 So we talked about this before the show, you know, Bush going out, you have Mulroney going out, you have Kretchen come in.

00:06:53.340 And thank goodness at that time, which is a very interesting time in the world, that Kretchen and Clinton got along so well.

00:07:03.800 So polar opposites, but tight friends, love the gulf together and were really good together doing business.

00:07:10.000 They may not run in the same social circles and have the same likes and dislikes in a lot of ways.

00:07:16.200 But when it came down to sitting in a boardroom to do business, they were quite good together.

00:07:20.340 Yeah.

00:07:20.740 Yeah.

00:07:21.100 You said polar.

00:07:22.100 It's interesting because now you have, you know, a gentleman who's Bill Clinton.

00:07:26.180 So I'm going to go sideways for a minute, but I met Bill Clinton years ago.

00:07:32.200 You did?

00:07:32.720 I did.

00:07:33.020 While he was president?

00:07:34.460 No, he was not president anymore.

00:07:37.200 Okay.

00:07:37.580 But he was at the Preakness in Baltimore.

00:07:39.800 Oh, yes, of course.

00:07:40.840 Yeah.

00:07:41.240 So, and I was throwing a party at the Preakness and I had a bunch of governors coming to this party because they all want to come to the Preakness.

00:07:51.980 So they're coming to this party and the table that was sitting across the way from me was a bunch of celebrities and rock stars.

00:07:59.880 Mm-hmm.

00:08:00.500 So the first rock star who walks in is Bon Jovi.

00:08:05.420 Oh, okay.

00:08:06.080 Big names.

00:08:07.760 Remember, this is the clubhouse, you know, at Pimlico.

00:08:11.600 Yeah.

00:08:11.780 Yeah.

00:08:12.220 And they're having, you know, pretty nice wine, champagne.

00:08:16.060 This is a big event for those of you who haven't been to a Triple Crown race.

00:08:19.900 You know, the second leg is pretty wild.

00:08:21.800 It's five star all the way.

00:08:23.600 Yeah.

00:08:23.960 And, you know, it's 75,000 to 100,000 people.

00:08:27.100 You know, they just zoom in on this one location.

00:08:30.160 They throw a race.

00:08:31.280 There's an infield party.

00:08:32.740 There's tents.

00:08:33.780 And we're at the, we're in the nicest dining room in this place.

00:08:37.680 Wow.

00:08:37.740 So, you know, we're, I'm hosting this table of people and we're having, you know, drinks and everything.

00:08:43.980 Bon Jovi walks in.

00:08:44.880 All the ladies in the room, psst, psst, psst, psst, psst. 1.00

00:08:47.200 Oh, I know.

00:08:47.860 You know, they're whispering.

00:08:48.700 They're all excited.

00:08:49.380 Bon Jovi's there.

00:08:50.200 But Bon Jovi's a pretty laid back guy, you know.

00:08:52.420 Yeah.

00:08:52.520 He goes and sits down and starts to talk, chat with his table.

00:08:58.560 Bill Clinton walks in.

00:09:00.460 The room goes crazy.

00:09:03.680 It was very popular.

00:09:05.000 Well, and the funny thing is, so, you know, Bon Jovi, of course, a rock star, doesn't do the rounds.

00:09:10.840 But Bill Clinton actually went and spoke to everyone in the room.

00:09:14.820 And I can't say that I've been tongue-tied too many times in my life.

00:09:18.860 Well, you were?

00:09:19.720 I was.

00:09:20.400 You were?

00:09:21.580 He's so, wow.

00:09:22.520 The charisma of this guy was so overwhelming that, you know, it took me a minute to get on my feet.

00:09:28.000 But, you know, he's just like, he looks into your eyes.

00:09:31.440 He talks.

00:09:32.180 A true politician.

00:09:34.240 Remember the famous quote, he would go, I feel your pain?

00:09:36.820 Yes.

00:09:37.000 With the accent.

00:09:37.820 You've believed it.

00:09:39.200 Oh, you loved him, right?

00:09:40.260 And I was, so I was lucky enough.

00:09:42.880 And after that to be, it was a project that we had going with the company I was with.

00:09:49.540 I went and stayed for a month in Little Rock, Arkansas.

00:09:53.060 Oh, his old stopping ground.

00:09:54.340 Yeah, met him again.

00:09:55.500 Yeah.

00:09:55.760 Met him again in a more casual setting in Little Rock.

00:09:58.360 And same thing, like just the room just buzzed, right?

00:10:01.760 So, so it's interesting because Chrétien, you know, the other day when he was sitting with Harper and getting, you know, that they were having the conversation.

00:10:09.180 It was fantastic.

00:10:09.880 It was so nice to see, but, you know, you really, you really realize the struggles of people.

00:10:16.720 Yeah.

00:10:17.120 You know, there's a gentleman, you know, a French Canadian, you know, he was paralyzed on one side.

00:10:23.900 You know, he started off, did so well, you know, his background, became prime minister and went on to befriend, you know, at that time, Bill Clinton, you know, no matter, forget his Monica, forget all the stuff about Epstein.

00:10:39.780 I mean, you know, he eclipsed all of that and still is probably one of the most popular presidents in the U.S. history, like people still today, you know.

00:10:50.120 No, but I think I would agree with you, Paul.

00:10:53.040 However, the revelations of the Epstein files is tarnishing his image and legacy.

00:10:58.900 Yeah.

00:10:59.020 It is.

00:10:59.640 It is.

00:11:00.120 It is.

00:11:00.540 I mean, I mean, to go there that many times, it is tarnishing.

00:11:04.940 I will say this about Jean Chrétien, who was the little guy from Schoeningen, he is still very respected on Parliament Hill amongst all political parties, and his voice and presence still carries a lot of weight in Canadian politics.

00:11:19.980 Well, it doesn't have the baggage of a Bill Clinton.

00:11:22.360 Oh, yeah.

00:11:22.760 No, definitely.

00:11:23.380 No comparison.

00:11:24.260 I agree.

00:11:24.580 But, you know, it's interesting, and to Chrétien, you know, we've talked about it on previous shows, you know, having that ability, which we, you know, coming from Calgary, we talked about the other day.

00:11:35.500 A leader has to have the ability to just walk among the common people, to just get out and have a conversation and listen and talk.

00:11:42.940 And, you know, both of those guys did, you know.

00:11:45.740 Oh, big time.

00:11:46.380 Both of them did.

00:11:47.180 Again, they could look you in the eye.

00:11:48.560 They could have a conversation with everyone.

00:11:50.480 You know, I'm at the Preakness.

00:11:52.220 I'm a Canadian.

00:11:53.040 He doesn't have to walk around the room, and he doesn't have to care who I am.

00:11:56.400 Yeah.

00:11:56.560 But he took the time to meet everyone, and there's probably 400 people in that room.

00:12:00.740 Yeah.

00:12:01.140 And he took the time to meet everyone.

00:12:02.420 So, you know, those guys, you know, back to NAFTA, they went ahead.

00:12:06.400 Now, from 1993 to 2015, NAFTA created over a trillion dollars of trade.

00:12:17.220 Everyone was happy.

00:12:18.200 Everyone was happy.

00:12:18.960 Making money.

00:12:19.620 You were mentioning about the trucks.

00:12:20.920 Tell the story about that, because for the younger people, they probably don't remember the trucks with the symbol.

00:12:25.020 Yeah, so after everything happened with NAFTA, when you would do a road trip in Canada, the United States, you would see tractor-trailers, and they all had the three flags.

00:12:33.260 Canada, USA, Mexico.

00:12:35.380 Doing trade from Guadalajara all the way up to Oshawa.

00:12:38.960 Yeah.

00:12:39.280 Auto parts, food, agriculture, whatever it was.

00:12:43.660 I mean, it was big, big money, big business, logistics, freight forwarding, on and on and on.

00:12:49.280 Yep.

00:12:50.220 But, and you know, it's interesting.

00:12:52.300 So then we, you know, 2017 comes.

00:12:54.940 Yeah.

00:12:55.520 Trump gets in.

00:12:57.560 It's the worst deal ever.

00:12:59.320 Remember that?

00:12:59.820 Of course.

00:13:00.480 Yeah.

00:13:00.940 And right away.

00:13:01.460 Because he didn't do it.

00:13:03.060 Well, he didn't do it.

00:13:04.180 And, you know, he did, you know, I guess a little bit, he did say in previous years that it was.

00:13:10.120 So, quite frankly, for years, he had talked through the Obama years that he hated NAFTA, right?

00:13:16.360 And he just hated it.

00:13:18.300 He didn't want to do it.

00:13:19.120 So, right away, tariffs on steel and aluminum, lumber, and then we do counter tariffs, right?

00:13:27.600 Now, okay, so personalities, right?

00:13:29.900 So, we're looking at Justin Trudeau.

00:13:32.900 Yes.

00:13:33.660 Right?

00:13:34.300 So, he's in power at that time.

00:13:37.300 They don't get along.

00:13:38.700 They don't like each other.

00:13:39.980 They don't have a, they don't.

00:13:41.340 They could not be more opposite.

00:13:42.620 They couldn't be more opposite, quite.

00:13:44.020 Had no interest in spending any time together.

00:13:46.000 I know at some points, Trudeau tried to go down and have break bread and have a conversation.

00:13:50.520 Oh, in Florida, in Mar-a-Lago.

00:13:52.100 No, no, before that.

00:13:53.060 Oh, before that.

00:13:53.640 Before that.

00:13:53.940 He actually, I think, in 2017, I think he reached out to Trump's daughter.

00:13:58.800 Right.

00:13:59.800 And actually...

00:14:00.800 Ivanka?

00:14:01.360 Yes.

00:14:01.800 And tried to actually connect.

00:14:03.200 He tried to get a relationship, I think, with her, who was more kind of his cup of tea.

00:14:08.760 Yes.

00:14:09.320 Right?

00:14:09.760 And basically tried to make it in through to Trump.

00:14:13.880 And so, that was kind of what he was trying to do to kind of form a relationship.

00:14:17.680 But, you know, gone were the days of two guys just getting together and having dinner.

00:14:24.120 You look at the personalities, and I really wanted to focus on that, because this is really

00:14:27.500 a lot personality-driven.

00:14:29.500 And you look at these two guys, they got together, you know, whether it be Kretchen and Clinton,

00:14:36.020 you know, the Mexican president always kind of on the sidelines a little bit, quite frankly,

00:14:40.800 language bearers, and, you know, never always have their own issues.

00:14:44.540 But they got together, and now we get to this era, and we have, you know, you don't see

00:14:52.080 them golfing together.

00:14:53.340 You don't see them spending any time together.

00:14:55.220 They just didn't hit it.

00:14:56.380 But as we found out that Donald Trump would rather hang out with Vladimir Putin than Justin

00:15:02.620 Trudeau, Donald Trump would rather hang out with all these other people, because he was,

00:15:07.960 we've discovered that Donald Trump is not a reasonable man to negotiate with.

00:15:11.820 You mentioned off the air, you mentioned earlier, that Donald Trump came up in the really rough

00:15:17.240 70s and 80s of development and building, dealing with the unions.

00:15:22.520 It's always attack, you're never wrong, and you're always on the offensive, and you're

00:15:28.140 always trying to get something over on the next person in a deal.

00:15:31.180 Whereas if you think about Kretchen and Clinton, they were trying to win, but also they were

00:15:36.440 smart enough to realize it's okay if the other person has a victory as well, as long as the

00:15:41.560 deal gets done at the end.

00:15:43.080 Yeah.

00:15:43.380 But Trump has never figured that out.

00:15:46.060 No, well, it's not his negotiating style, and quite frankly, he's also, you know, we've

00:15:51.460 talked about it on previous shows, he's also in an environment right now in the U.S. where

00:15:55.700 they're struggling, right?

00:15:57.840 You know, they don't talk about it.

00:15:59.040 They, you know, he wants to, rah, rah, rah, they're doing well.

00:16:02.120 When he came into office, huge deficits, no manufacturing, productivity at its lowest.

00:16:07.740 You know, he has, he did have, you know, quite frankly, he has huge drug problems.

00:16:12.280 There are a number of social issues.

00:16:14.240 There were a lot of things going on.

00:16:15.760 Sure.

00:16:16.100 So why not do a deal that benefits America and maybe benefits Canada, Mexico, and other 0.99

00:16:21.660 countries and quit being such a jerk about it? 0.99

00:16:24.440 No, he can't help himself. 1.00

00:16:25.880 No, no, he can't help himself.

00:16:27.400 But, you know, it's interesting.

00:16:28.640 So we go forward and we look at this and we say, okay, now we're here.

00:16:32.200 He said he's, you know, personality's not jiving.

00:16:35.900 You know, he even, quite frankly, when he, when he addresses our prime minister, he calls

00:16:41.620 him by his first name, you know, Mark, Mark, Mark, you know what I mean?

00:16:46.540 He's not going to, you know, he's decided and regardless, he's a good guy.

00:16:51.460 You know, I don't know what that really means half the time.

00:16:54.300 You know, he makes quips about, um, you know, different gender issues.

00:17:00.840 You know, he's really always kind of poking them a little, as you can tell.

00:17:04.560 It's not a, it's, it's a little bit of an offset, uh, relationship.

00:17:08.880 So they get to this point and we're coming up to July.

00:17:13.440 So now we're coming up to July and we're going to be negotiating Kuzma, right?

00:17:18.660 Trump said, ah, I don't really need to, you know, technically he doesn't.

00:17:23.860 It's a 16 year, uh, agreement, right?

00:17:27.640 And up in, uh, basically it was ratified in 2020.

00:17:32.220 It goes to 2036.

00:17:34.320 You know, it's a six year review is what we're into.

00:17:36.800 Um, he can just walk away.

00:17:39.360 So there's no consequences to walking away.

00:17:41.760 You could walk away at any time during the agreement with six months notice.

00:17:45.740 So really, but at what cost to America?

00:17:49.860 The American economy already is showing some, um, dents and bruises.

00:17:56.280 We're seeing many stories of, uh, same problems here.

00:17:59.700 Young Americans can't buy a home, jobs, manufacturing. 1.00

00:18:03.520 So he's, if he does this, Paul, if he does this, he's not thinking about the long-term effects

00:18:10.260 on the average American worker and the average American family and the American economy.

00:18:15.380 And Carney, to his credit, love him or hate him.

00:18:18.420 He is seeing what's happening.

00:18:20.680 I'm, he's probably seeing what's coming up the highway and he's cutting deals at other

00:18:25.220 countries to keep some money flowing in and out of our country.

00:18:28.600 Oh yeah, no, no, I, I, I get it.

00:18:31.040 I, you know, and, uh, I'm hoping, you know, we're all hoping that that keeps going.

00:18:35.880 And quite frankly, there's no, uh, roadblock from the Trump camp.

00:18:40.340 Right.

00:18:41.080 But, you know, you look at this and you have to say personalities again, because when Kuzma 0.65

00:18:47.300 comes into play and all these terms are being negotiated, we send, of course, Freeland.

00:18:53.460 Of course, you're Freeland, right.

00:18:54.500 Right.

00:18:55.240 She goes over and she's negotiating this.

00:18:58.000 Trump and her, his group despise the lady, right?

00:19:01.680 He even says when she's leaving, he's even doing tweets about her leaving, how good it

00:19:05.240 is they finally gotten rid of her when she resigns, right?

00:19:08.580 And goes to the Ukraine, which is another bizarre, you know, thing to get into.

00:19:12.480 But the personality is just not working, right?

00:19:15.160 So there's a lot of baggage in this one.

00:19:17.160 And quite frankly, he's already said he's gone.

00:19:19.420 So, you know, you have, again, in this end of this kind of era when this is going on,

00:19:27.480 you have, uh, Trudeau, uh, you know, who, and, and Freeland who are exiting now giving

00:19:34.960 it to Kearney.

00:19:36.340 Uh, it's, it's just an interesting dynamic of personalities and Trudeau at the time, Trudeau

00:19:42.340 at the time, probably not focused.

00:19:44.260 Trudeau, quite frankly, the last, you know, four years of Trudeau's was scandal after

00:19:49.280 scandal, whether it be we, SEC lab, SNC lab, uh, the India pictures, Chinese interference,

00:19:57.040 COVID, uh, emergencies act.

00:19:59.200 It's just one thing after another going sideways, quite frankly, probably didn't have a lot

00:20:03.760 of time, just was managing the portfolio at the end.

00:20:06.960 And Paul, but Paul, here's Kearney coming in who has spent the last four decades doing

00:20:11.020 what big deals, big business, negotiating, managing banks, managing multi-trillion dollar

00:20:17.360 portfolios.

00:20:19.000 As a Canadian, I have better faith that Kearney can negotiate some kind of deal because at

00:20:24.540 the end of the day, Justin Trudeau did not have that background.

00:20:29.100 He did not have the background of sitting in boardrooms with big business, the elite business

00:20:35.080 people and cutting deals.

00:20:36.340 That wasn't his background.

00:20:37.520 But that, you know, honestly, a little bit of that, you know, and I'm, uh, it's the personalities

00:20:43.440 of the day and the negotiation, you know, learned it many years ago, uh, dealing with great

00:20:47.560 negotiators, great negotiators leave the table, hopefully with everyone feeling like they got

00:20:53.320 something.

00:20:53.920 Right.

00:20:54.760 Which is what you said Clinton and Gretchen used to do.

00:20:57.660 Trump didn't feel that, you know what I mean?

00:20:59.520 Like there's personal animosity there with, with, uh, Trudeau and there was personal with

00:21:03.940 Friedland.

00:21:04.320 And I think those tweets and everything he's writing, you know, there wasn't a lot of love

00:21:07.860 when he left.

00:21:08.360 And quite frankly, you know, uh, even, uh, the Mexican, uh, president at that time, you

00:21:15.480 know, Nieto, Nieto, yeah, Enrique Nieto, uh, you know, there was some dissension, you know,

00:21:23.660 uncomfortable moments there.

00:21:25.240 And he led to some odd times in that relationship.

00:21:29.040 So they got, they got to Kuzma, but Kuzma, Kuzma was muddy, right?

00:21:33.640 Kuzma was muddy from the beginning.

00:21:35.680 Uh, there were, and it was muddy since the Clinton days, right?

00:21:38.620 They were always worried about, quite frankly, Mexico and their low labor and their low cost.

00:21:43.660 You know, they, they constantly, whether it be automotive or, or a steel or whatever, they

00:21:49.540 wanted the composition of, uh, the products not to be made somewhere else and shipped through

00:21:56.640 those countries.

00:21:57.320 So they didn't want China shipping things to Canada and into the U S they were very cautious

00:22:02.140 and worried that that was happening.

00:22:04.100 Right.

00:22:04.440 And, you know, whether it be steel, whether it be aluminum, whether it be cars, they want

00:22:10.780 our car parts, they were always very cautious, the U S when it came to Kuzma and even to back

00:22:17.320 to NAFTA, because they were concerned.

00:22:19.360 And a lot of that agreement, you know, it's 500 pages long, so I didn't want to go through

00:22:23.560 all of it, but, you know, a lot of the agreement really is just the suspicion of where things

00:22:29.280 originate.

00:22:29.940 So the ports, where they're built, how they're coming out, what their content is.

00:22:33.640 And in order to make them, to make them, uh, tariff free, you know, they have to originate

00:22:39.360 in Canada or originate in the U S and the content has to be so much.

00:22:43.140 So you could see that as we were going through it and supply management didn't help us at all.

00:22:48.200 I understand what you're saying, Paul, but here's the dichotomy to all of this.

00:22:53.180 Meanwhile, millions of Americans go to their local store and buy Nikes built in Vietnam. 0.85

00:22:58.040 Millions of America, if I can get my Nikes for $50, great.

00:23:03.760 I don't care where they're built.

00:23:04.760 Right.

00:23:05.260 I need some running shoes.

00:23:06.260 If you have this much money to spend and you need to buy certain things, sometimes you have

00:23:13.520 to live the basic surviving, shoes in your feet, food in the table, roof over your head.

00:23:18.440 And I understand what the government and the administration and negotiators are trying to

00:23:23.880 do everything for the country. But there's also the reality of the lack of money for a lot of

00:23:29.740 people. The average person in North America is trying to do more with less and less money.

00:23:35.860 And it's a real struggle.

00:23:37.320 Oh, no, I get it. And, and, you know, in both countries, it's not. And in Mexico,

00:23:42.300 and I think all three countries are feeling the inflation push. Right.

00:23:45.840 And that's, that's the other thing hanging over the negotiators is that inflation,

00:23:50.240 that cost of living now is the number one concern for Canadians and all the polling.

00:23:55.560 Number one concern more than anything is, can I afford to do things? Can I buy these things?

00:24:01.040 Because it's getting harder and harder every month.

00:24:03.560 Yeah. Well, and that's, you know, that's what the polling is telling us. Right.

00:24:07.540 But, but, you know, they all go hand in hand. So what's going to happen here with Kuzma,

00:24:12.440 what's going to happen with is going to dictate that. So we were talking before,

00:24:15.840 you know, and it's interesting. And this is a challenge that I think,

00:24:20.060 you know, Trump's going to bring to the table at some point. He can bring all the manufacturing

00:24:25.360 back. He can bring it out of Mexico. He can bring it back out of Canada. He can make autos

00:24:29.180 only in the U S but what does a car cost at that point? Well, I mean, the, the U S auto union's

00:24:35.200 not going to allow the workers to be paid two 50 an hour. Right. So that's not happening.

00:24:39.580 Right. So what does that translate to the people in the U S right? And so that's some

00:24:44.520 of the issues he's going to see. They haven't come up against that yet because it's not done

00:24:48.920 yet. Right. We're still in the old format. We're still, we're still moving cars seven

00:24:53.020 or eight times across borders where, you know, there are, you know, we put a tariff on,

00:24:58.300 they put a tariff on, we kind of counter tariffs for a while. Then we drop tariffs and then we go

00:25:02.700 back and forth. Right. So that's real quick. This has been going on the auto act since 1965.

00:25:07.860 Oh, of course. Sure. There are a way that maybe you can tweak it, streamline it,

00:25:13.000 make it more efficient, but still make it in such a way that vehicles are made.

00:25:18.760 That's one of the hardest things. Now you try finding a new vehicle in this country under $35,000.

00:25:25.260 It's very, very difficult. Oh yeah. And I drive by car lots all the time and it's filled with new cars

00:25:31.900 that people simply can't afford to buy and the interest rates don't help and the economy doesn't

00:25:36.360 help. So if those prices start going up, how will the manufacturers actually sell anything to people?

00:25:42.980 It'll go back for the, for a while. I think it'll go back to the used car market. Like it was

00:25:47.600 remember when we were younger, right? Everyone had a used car. Everyone had a used car. Now no one

00:25:52.480 has a used car. You know, well, people still have new cars, but there's less. And quite frankly,

00:25:57.020 there's more, uh, cars sold. So, you know, I was looking the other day, we, we buy around 1.9 million

00:26:04.100 cars a year in Canada. So those are kind of the new car market. The U S is around 13 million.

00:26:10.120 Uh, China is the lead, you know, buyer of around 31 million. Uh, and, and, you know, so you look at

00:26:19.500 it, is there going to be a market for Canada on its own?

00:26:23.400 On its own. I don't think that, no, we have to partner with somebody, right? We're not big enough

00:26:28.980 of a country to do something on our own, but, but that's almost the case. Well, uh, steel and

00:26:35.960 aluminum. No, we could, we could, it would be a much smaller industry. So it would, it would,

00:26:41.100 but building and selling cars globally on our own. I don't see that. Yeah. No, I don't see that.

00:26:46.420 Uh, when it comes to steel and aluminum, we could still have an industry. It'd be a smaller industry

00:26:51.780 because, you know, yeah, because, you know, we, we roughly push around 5 billion in steel and

00:26:56.940 aluminum to the U S and, you know, we use about 3 billion ourselves. So we still have an industry

00:27:01.980 there, but it would be smaller and more condensed. And can we find other markets to go into? And I

00:27:08.600 think that's where the prime minister is trying and trying to do it. But it, it's interesting when

00:27:13.480 we, it comes to Kuzma and you look at all those things, the quintessential challenge, which we're going to 0.53

00:27:19.560 talk about on more shows is you can change auto, you can change steel. Uh, you can change lumber.

00:27:27.280 What's going to happen with energy? Cause that's the key one when we get there, because quite frankly,

00:27:32.800 that's where we hold a little bit of leverage in the conversation.

00:27:36.440 Well, we have staggering amounts of hydroelectric. Yep. Ontario just redid a fabulous job refurbishing

00:27:44.240 the Darlington nuclear plant under, ahead of schedule and under budget. Yeah. I saw that,

00:27:49.900 which was pretty impressive for Steven Lecce and Doug Ford. So we have tons of energy from nuclear

00:27:56.420 plants, hydroelectric, and we still have all that oil, natural grass, uh, natural gas on the ground.

00:28:02.520 Yeah. So in that way, Canada is poised quite strongly for the future in that sense.

00:28:10.020 It is. I mean, we sell currently hydro to the Northeast U S from the big hydroelectric dams

00:28:16.240 in Quebec and Labrador, which I'm sure they're more than happy to take terror free.

00:28:21.820 Right. Right. Cause what else, but, but, but at that point, I know, but at that point,

00:28:27.020 if he's said no to steel, no to aluminum, he said no to auto.

00:28:31.820 So what's the next step you can go abroad, but at some point, and that's always been the, you know,

00:28:39.820 that's the elephant in the room that no one wants to address. Right. It's always been one of those

00:28:43.640 ones where remember Doug Ford kind of tiptoed toward, and then they were like, Oh, stop, stop.

00:28:48.520 We're not going to talk about that. Alberta, of course, you know, is not happy right now. 0.95

00:28:52.680 So that's really the elephant in the room in this negotiation. Now it's interesting. Cause I find,

00:28:59.300 uh, Mark Carney right now has said, we're done. So the prime minister has said, we're finished.

00:29:07.860 You know, we're ready for negotiation. We're ready for July. Here's our info. There you go.

00:29:11.960 Beginning of February. Yep. We're, we've done our review. We've got our comments. We know where

00:29:15.920 our position are. We're ready to negotiate when you're ready to negotiate. Here we are.

00:29:19.480 Yep. Yep. Right. Today he's on, you know, the press conference on auto, you know, if it happens,

00:29:28.460 great. If it doesn't happen, I'm going another path. Like here's the path that I'm putting in

00:29:33.280 place. So, you know, again, we'd love to deal with us automakers. We'd love to do all that stuff,

00:29:37.940 but if it doesn't happen, because what could happen, when he knows it in July, July 1st,

00:29:43.040 we could go to the table and he could come, he could come to the table and say, we're, we're terminating.

00:29:48.700 And I totally agree, Paul, but here's the big issue hanging over all of it. There is so much

00:29:55.060 drama happening in DC with Trump, with his health, with the Epstein files, with his cognitive abilities,

00:30:01.900 who knows what Donald Trump will be talking to Carney in June, as opposed to now in early February,

00:30:08.560 who knows what kind of power he has, who knows what state he's going to be in. That's the difficult

00:30:14.120 thing for Carney is dealing with these other presidents and prime ministers. I know when I

00:30:19.180 talk to prime minister Makuchi in three months, he's going to be the same guy I'm talking to right

00:30:23.580 now. Yeah. But with Donald Trump, you don't know. No. And I think it's difficult for Carney, for Kuzma,

00:30:29.180 for every country in the world right now. Well, you know, he's, he's kind of laying out the path

00:30:34.860 and it's interesting today. I thought, uh, before the show we were going into, we didn't have this

00:30:39.480 on the agenda, but I was like, okay, that's interesting. He's putting his auto plan. So

00:30:43.840 my guess is over the next few months, leading up to July 1st, he's just going to lay out a plan for

00:30:49.220 every industry. Right. I think, Hey, if you're going to do it fine, we want to do business. I'll do

00:30:53.940 business. If you don't, here's what we have. Yeah. I'm not waiting. No, that's smart. No, no. And

00:30:59.220 listen, I liked it today. I don't know if I agree. We're going to talk about it on another show. I

00:31:03.820 don't know if I agree with everything he's talking about, but he's not waiting until something happens.

00:31:08.340 No, I think, I think being, uh, being, uh, proactive, proactive. Thank you. Uh, being proactive

00:31:15.660 and moving forward and trying to get ready for it is a great idea. And I, I look forward to seeing it,

00:31:20.140 but Jim, thank you. And thank you for the show. And why can't you negotiate Kuzma?

00:31:25.640 Well, I'd be, I'd be playing golf or hanging out. I would get a deal done. And hopefully,

00:31:34.480 you know, I get a tan. Thank you everyone. Uh, please, we have a new app, so please subscribe

00:31:41.660 and subscribe and get the new app. And we look forward to more shows on Kuzma.

True Patriot Love - February 18, 2026

CUSMA July Showdown： Carney vs Trump - Part 1

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