True Patriot Love - Deep-Sea Mining： Environmental Disaster or Necessity？ ft. Stan Sudol

00:00:00.080 and let's face it all mining is disrupting something but if you have a choice of a very

00:00:07.440 low biodiverse area with no large ocean megafauna versus incredible biodiversity of the

00:00:18.400 indonesian rainforest and we need the metals what you'd rather have

00:00:23.920 today on true patriot love media i'm lucky enough to have stan sudall the republic of mining right

00:00:34.380 welcome stan how do you do good man hey um so you know it's interesting because we picked up this

00:00:40.780 show um based on the number of clicks so you know people's views so we were kind of looking around

00:00:47.800 for a mining show and we said what are people interested in learning about and i was shocked

00:00:52.960 that it was about a topic which is on canada's pacific coast by a primarily based vancouver

00:01:02.140 company and so i was like oh this is very interesting and you know it dealt with oceans

00:01:07.220 mining um and the formations uh that are in the sea of copper nickel and cobalt many more items

00:01:15.760 i'm sure um and a company that's actually looking at the deep water dollar signs which are big

00:01:22.640 numbers uh and the potential of this new industry well i don't even know if it's new honestly stan

00:01:28.960 so because apparently we just found out by before the show this has been going on into the 1970s

00:01:37.680 this deep water absolutely mining and so and then it stopped it really got going and then

00:01:43.600 i guess for political reasons for sensitivity reasons uh probably it was just basically um

00:01:50.080 The old Inco, which was a major mining company in Sudbury, was very interested in these nodules at the bottom of the Clipperton area of the Pacific Ocean because they're nickel, copper, cobalt, and manganese rich.

00:02:08.540 So basically between those three metals, roughly 35% of these nodules are metallic and you only have 65% waste.

00:02:16.400 So they were investigating the nickel component primarily in the late 70s.

00:02:21.000 And the old Inco actually brought up about 2,000 tons of potato-sized nodules.

00:02:29.780 I'm going to stop you for a minute because I want to lay out for the guests

00:02:35.160 because I got schooled in this yesterday.

00:02:38.680 Okay.

00:02:39.100 A nodule is sitting on the ocean floor, right?

00:02:43.960 Yes.

00:02:44.020 yeah and it's it's like thousands of feet down six thousand feet four thousand to six thousand

00:02:50.500 feet right sorry four to six thousand meters wow so that converts into four or six kilometers

00:02:59.120 right underneath the ocean yeah and so you know and this company this vancouver company this

00:03:05.200 metals company yes right they're basically uh been doing the research on pulling these nodules

00:03:11.680 yes up and and these nodules like it's amazing they've actually pulled like 3 000

00:03:17.740 tons tons of out of it there's a there's a picture here i'll throw up for the for the

00:03:23.240 viewers where okay and these nodules which is interesting they get kind of um they get graded

00:03:29.680 right and then they the process is very interesting you know we and we picked it up online

00:03:34.980 um pardon me there's this big tractor looking grinder that goes down to the bottom of the ocean

00:03:42.160 and it kind of churns picks up these nodules pumps them up to the surface yes and then they

00:03:50.800 they disperse all the other items that are pulled up and they segregate them into their uh piles

00:03:58.840 some of them going back into the ocean to go back down to the floor others actually the nodules

00:04:04.820 going off to be grinded up and refined yes yeah it's almost like a a desert because there is

00:04:12.500 these are very it's very low light area of the ocean because it's so deep yeah and it just miles

00:04:18.340 and miles of nodules scattered uh along the bottom of the ocean and so you're basically trying to get

00:04:25.140 some kind of machine to come in there and and it's almost like potato picking uh yeah and and

00:04:30.820 trying to separate that from the sediment yeah and well and we'll we'll throw it up on the screen um

00:04:36.420 for the viewers because it's really interesting you know i was kind of uh captivated when i started

00:04:40.980 learning about it the other day and i'm like wow this is really interesting i would have never

00:04:45.300 thought and and when i originally you know it's funny stan when we came across this i looked at

00:04:51.300 it and i thought i don't know if i like this because right away i'm thinking environmental

00:04:56.980 challenges and everything else you know and i'm like ah i don't you know is this this is uncharted

00:05:04.420 waters and is that what happened in the 1970s because in the 1970s as it got going you mentioned

00:05:09.480 inco what was the what stopped it like what kind of put the brakes on it because at that point in

00:05:16.740 time and of course like i was saying there's a lot of concern about in sudbury because they thought

00:05:20.600 that these nodules would shut down the mines

00:05:23.940 in the Sudbury Basin.

00:05:26.080 But the thing that really stopped it

00:05:27.540 was that there was no rules and regulations.

00:05:31.000 This was the 1970s.

00:05:32.460 So the International Seabed Authority

00:05:34.100 wasn't formed until 1994.

00:05:36.640 So who actually had legal right to these materials?

00:05:40.020 That was the big stumbling block then.

00:05:42.860 And then it also converted,

00:05:44.440 this was 77, 78, 79.

00:05:48.040 Then the market for nickel sort of crashed

00:05:50.200 in the early 80s so it kind of fell out by the wayside it was based a mixture of

00:05:57.000 legal security of being able to to pick up these materials who actually owned it and the crash in

00:06:05.080 the metal prices and so it just got on the back burner and that was that so there's an entity

00:06:10.280 that governs the sea i guess so you know so there's a group um talk to me about that for

00:06:15.160 The International Seabed Authority, which is based in Jamaica, they basically were formed in 1994 to try to put rules and regulations on who can go in there and mine or gather these nodules.

00:06:32.720 And there's a huge number of countries that are part of the International Seabed Authority, but the United States is not.

00:06:40.720 Okay.

00:06:40.940 Okay.

00:06:41.440 All right.

00:06:41.740 And currently, the International Seabed Authority has roughly almost 60 environmental NGOs as bystanders or people who basically follow what they're doing.

00:06:58.760 And what has happened is it's become so political and basically, of course, the environmental movement.

00:07:05.360 anytime there's something new uh it's like a green chicken little little green chicken little

00:07:12.320 the sky is falling this is going to destroy the entire uh habitat the entire uh ocean ecosystem

00:07:20.640 let's put aside that one-third of oil production in the world is uh coming from the ocean and that

00:07:27.600 hasn't destroyed the entire ocean ecosystem we actually do a lot of aggregate mining from the

00:07:37.600 ocean in shallower areas near the shoreline right for sand and gravel and cement yes i knew that

00:07:47.520 and and and those are in more biodiverse rich parts of the ocean and it hasn't destroyed it

00:07:54.240 but in an area that is absolutely almost devoid of major fish fauna if you can use that term um

00:08:03.680 very cold um dark because because of the depth yes because it's 6 000 meters you know there's

00:08:11.200 nothing living there well very there's things there's some stuff there yeah okay but let's

00:08:16.320 let's just throw in the context uh the clipperton zone is roughly uh four and a half million square

00:08:23.120 miles and a square kilometer sorry and people will go oh my god that's so big but it's only

00:08:28.720 one and a half percent of the territory that is under the oceans in the world right and the

00:08:34.800 clipperton zone is off of the in between hawaii and mexico right and and so that's the the the

00:08:41.600 expansive that's why it's so big yes right okay and and so people is so the environmentalists

00:08:47.360 are going well this is this uncharted territory but actually the metals company has spent around

00:08:51.760 250 million dollars over the past i don't know decade or a little bit uh uh doing environmental

00:08:58.560 monitoring and testing and and they've had a lot of uh seasoned oceanographers and other scientists

00:09:05.760 who are looking at this and they may not agree with some of the uh rulings but um you know there

00:09:13.040 is the impact isn't the impact isn't as bad as they make it out to be now now if you take a look

00:09:22.720 at and i guess the big analogy is uh look at what's happening to the uh rainforests the biodiverse

00:09:30.080 uh rainforest in indonesia where they're strip mining for nickel right in cobalt uh

00:09:36.880 it's it's it's it's it's almost a crime against nature because you're not going to replant the

00:09:41.280 tropical rainforest they're never going to be the same versus in this area which is a tiny micro

00:09:47.040 dot of the pacific ocean you're going to have some disruption and and let's face it all mining

00:09:54.720 is disrupting something but if you have a choice of a very low biodiverse area with no large ocean

00:10:05.760 megafauna versus incredible biodiversity of the indonesian rainforest and we need the metals

00:10:15.920 what you'd rather have well let's talk about the metals from it because you hit on a that's

00:10:20.240 interesting i want to make sure the viewers because this is you know it's it's environmental

00:10:24.960 issues it's easy to get passionate yeah and right away you know my mind went there right away i

00:10:29.280 thought okay this is the ocean floor we must cherish it you know and all this good stuff

00:10:35.360 and and and then you know i started uh going through the list of items so you know you've

00:10:41.120 kind of named a few of them you know nickel uh cobalt copper uh magnesium manganese manganese

00:10:50.560 but is it rare earth is this where i always get kind of um critical minerals versus rare earth

00:10:57.440 manoros right so this is where i kind of always i got to get my mind straight okay the the nodules

00:11:02.560 in the clipperton region are are potato-sized nodules that are basically nickel copper cobalt

00:11:12.480 and uh manganese okay so roughly 35 percent of one of these potato size nodules is metallic

00:11:21.120 65 percent is waste and that's a key point because when you're operating a huge open pit mine in

00:11:27.760 british columbia or or the congo uh or or or chile you're you're looking at sometimes copper grades

00:11:36.640 in the half percent grade okay so so 0.05 is a metal and 90

00:11:45.520 99.5 percent is waste oh so you have to take that waste oh yeah with with all these huge open

00:11:58.060 pit mine copper mines especially in british columbia you have copper grades that are like

00:12:03.860 half a percent oh and 99 and a half percent is waste so you have to store them somewhere

00:12:09.580 So these copper nodules are rich, they're dense.

00:12:14.060 Yes, absolutely.

00:12:14.780 Oh, interesting.

00:12:15.460 So that's a real plus.

00:12:17.780 Now, these are in international waters, okay?

00:12:23.400 Each country has a 200 nautical mile exclusive economic zone

00:12:28.740 where they don't need to go with the International Seabed Authority.

00:12:32.000 They can do what they want because it's their jurisdiction.

00:12:34.640 Japan has found rare earth sediments in their deep mine area, in their ocean areas that are under their control.

00:12:47.060 So you might have heard that the Japanese are digging up some of these rich rare earth sediments.

00:12:53.780 I did read.

00:12:54.500 Bringing up to the surface, but that's in the Japanese exclusive economic zone.

00:13:01.620 That is not the clipperton area where there's nodule-sized potato-like rocks.

00:13:10.920 That is exclusively nickel, copper, cobalt, and manganese.

00:13:15.440 Okay.

00:13:15.940 Now, take me through.

00:13:17.200 So they're used for car parts, used for construction, used for all these batteries, you name it, right?

00:13:24.060 Oh, the cobalt and the nickel and the copper.

00:13:28.240 a manganese is obviously used in steel production right if you don't mix it with steel then the

00:13:34.080 steel is not usable so that's integral for steel production while the nickel cobalt and copper are

00:13:40.980 used for the electrification of the world right we're basically we're moving into a very metal

00:13:47.140 intensive period in our collective economic history where western countries well-developed

00:13:54.460 countries are electrifying their economies they're uh especially in the u.s uh which is the biggest

00:14:01.420 market in the world much of their um electrical system was built in the 1950s during the boom

00:14:07.040 their grid is bad exactly they need to renew their grid same with uh trust me i lived there

00:14:13.420 stand for 12 years i can tell you stories right okay so so so my business in the u.s was totally

00:14:18.780 dependent on electricity it was a high a high energy use company and what a struggle wow yeah

00:14:25.820 and so you need to uh renew the entire electrical grid or much of the electrical grid in the u.s and

00:14:32.220 and and in canada uh we need these materials for electric vehicles ai data centers military

00:14:40.680 procurement the re-industrialization of the u.s requires all these metals uh so many people feel

00:14:48.100 that by 2040 metal demand will could possibly triple or quadruple right so that's why you know

00:14:57.780 these countries you know we all the time on these shows we talk about all these announcements and

00:15:03.220 really the run for resources right now like you're hearing everyone's saying i have them i have them

00:15:08.980 i have them they want to be on the list to figure out who to sell to because as they're digging them

00:15:14.100 out of the earth or find them in the sea they're trying to figure out a buyer right so they're

00:15:18.500 trying to connect the dots right and but that's why the us so in this case that's why so this is

00:15:24.660 this is what got me on this one as gerard baron the ceo of the metal company he's been very public

00:15:30.980 on this he's an australian entrepreneur he was the founder of adstream during the kind of the dot-com

00:15:37.060 era did very well he's been out there saying you know what i'm i'm going to connect uh because the

00:15:44.980 market for the us right now is so ripe so the reason he kind of my sense is the us was more

00:15:51.220 open and had this demand this electrical demand so he's gone to the u.s basically because they'll

00:15:59.220 allow him to get permits to do this yes yeah absolutely because the u.s does not belong to

00:16:05.380 the international seabed authority so they're going to just do and trump is trump you know what

00:16:10.660 he's tired of the uh the games and the uh environmental movement uh uh wanting to road

00:16:16.420 block everything that uh that all the uh metal mining that they need uh and basically this is

00:16:24.900 the route that the metals uh uh company wants to go through wow so so a vancouver company has gone

00:16:32.500 public they've had great success so far on the public markets so people are buying this story

00:16:39.140 yes yeah and and also remember you you let's take a country like india okay there's almost

00:16:46.420 a billion and a half people um every time they want to build a mine and i've seen it over the

00:16:51.540 years uh they want to build a coal mine or an iron ore mine well they got to relocate people

00:16:57.300 or even in indonesia with the nickel uh development um you're you're basically

00:17:03.300 cutting down um biodiverse jurisdictions they're never going to get replanted to the original self

00:17:10.180 but you're also pushing people who've been on that land for for for multi-generations pushing

00:17:15.460 them aside because that's the only they're they're on very valuable land right it's crowded populated

00:17:22.020 regions uh that it becomes a real challenge to develop especially open pit minds oh yeah well

00:17:30.260 look at oil and gas right now right in canada we're still struggling you know just getting

00:17:35.220 that resource which was well known well you know well valued uh in this case you know this is

00:17:41.300 something you know this is really the test bed for him like he is the founder of this and this

00:17:46.660 company is and quite frankly you know so far they've been able to raise uh almost a quarter

00:17:52.020 billion dollars um they have to go a little further and then from what i'm reading from

00:17:57.300 their business plan they actually have to um get partnerships contracted services to refine it uh

00:18:05.380 to do the tolling on it uh and then get the shipping on it so they you know they they have

00:18:10.900 to get a fleet so when they get this thing fully rolling because once they get into it and they get

00:18:16.420 the permit the potential reserve value they're saying is about 23 billion dollars so so they're

00:18:23.060 gonna have to get assets in tow whether they're contracted or not of about 4 billion to get this

00:18:29.060 off the ground it's a big it's a big initiative but it's multi-generational the the the resource

00:18:34.500 is so valuable like like the let me just throw off a couple of numbers uh estimates five to six

00:18:42.500 billion tons of manganese 250 million tons of nickel and we mine three and a half million tons

00:18:48.340 a year um two to three hundred million tons of copper and we mine 23 million tons a year so

00:18:54.580 you're seeing the the length of time and the real kicker is 40 to 70 million tons of cobalt and we

00:19:01.060 mine 230 000 tons a year so you're looking at almost a could be almost a hundred year supply

00:19:09.140 of cobalt and we're not using kids to mine the cobalt obviously because it's we're under water

00:19:15.540 like i mean it's um it and the area that they're mining again is very low biodiversity i know the

00:19:24.180 environmental movement wants to make it sound like it's the garden of eden right and and and

00:19:28.900 we're going to desecrate um a huge biodiverse region but it's not true compared to as i said

00:19:36.580 the choice between a rather desert-like area and yes there is some sea life there but again it's

00:19:45.220 only one and a half percent of the entire um ocean um versus what we're doing to places like

00:19:54.420 indonesia or the congo where does canada so this is interesting because now you know

00:20:00.420 vancouver company goes on the exchange raises a quarter billion dollars has a believing

00:20:05.700 you know they're kind of uh spearheading the initiative let's say um where does canada stand

00:20:11.780 on it now so where are we where are we sitting on this one because you know of course i looked at it

00:20:17.060 i thought okay we're okay with offshore drilling for oil yes yes right so now are we where are we

00:20:26.100 sitting on this from uh can he like and is there i guess are there nodules i guess we don't know

00:20:32.740 really because we haven't done the work on it yet no we don't and i and i've not heard of nodules

00:20:37.620 along the bc coast or in our economic zone which is 200 kilometers right but because um

00:20:45.780 the canadian government is so politically correct they basically side with the international seabed

00:20:50.660 authority and basically say we should have a moratorium on any mining activity in this region

00:20:56.980 because we don't know enough right oh and so as we're waiting uh more and more of the valuable um

00:21:06.180 rainforests of uh indonesia get cut down it's silly it's you're basically dancing on the head

00:21:12.020 of a pin trying to be politically correct and woke because environmental votes are are a big part of

00:21:18.420 the uh the reason that the liberals are still in power so if they basically say sure go ahead

00:21:23.860 because there's basically really good reason to do this,

00:21:29.020 they would have the environmental movement screaming bloody murder

00:21:33.280 and saying basically vote them out.

00:21:36.180 You know, I'm trying to figure out, no, I get you.

00:21:39.020 You know, in sustainable resource extraction

00:21:42.420 that actually doesn't hurt, you know, the ecosystem,

00:21:48.420 they're spending a lot of money on it.

00:21:50.560 I know he, because he's been 10 years.

00:21:52.160 as i learned more i was kind of like okay again i started off on probably the very negative side of

00:21:57.860 this okay and i'm probably kind of going to the middle now i just truthfully i'm trying to i'm

00:22:01.760 learning okay so but you know i started off and i'm like okay you know i get it he you know this

00:22:07.940 guy didn't rush into it you know he's not you know he's raising money he's doing the research

00:22:12.920 give me a feel for like what would he be looking at would be looking at sort of is he more looking

00:22:18.620 at valuation or is he looking at kind of technology or i think the technology is there because i mean

00:22:25.980 they basically don't forget inco in the 1970s brought up 2000 uh tons of this material all

00:22:31.260 right so there's the and since the 1970s we've advanced greatly and of course uh a lot of this

00:22:39.900 some of this technology uh even goes into the oil and gas industry okay so the technology part is

00:22:45.980 not the problem it's making sure that you're i think i think part of the issue is that you're

00:22:50.780 trying to mitigate whatever environmental impact that you have all right but let's be honest

00:22:58.140 unless you have an underground mine with a really small footprint any open pit mine is going to

00:23:04.060 impact the environment uh on land okay and and 30 of the globe is land 70 is ocean

00:23:17.100 the fact that we need to double or triple or maybe quadruple mineral

00:23:23.420 mining by 2040 because of the electrification of nearly everything as well as and let's not forget

00:23:31.100 that there's still other lesser development countries that are climbing the economic ladder

00:23:36.940 and as you get wealthier, the development is more metal intensive. If you're impoverished,

00:23:43.500 you're not going to care about a perfectly electrical system or subways. The moment you

00:23:50.700 get wealthier, you start building subways and cities and everything. That's all metal intensive.

00:23:55.100 that's basically what drove the first commodity super cycle when china was industrializing uh

00:24:02.060 uh in the um the early aughts until about uh for a period of about a decade and a half so well

00:24:12.620 let's talk about china for a minute where's china sitting on this stand because you know

00:24:16.380 before the show i was you were kind of giving me some news which i didn't know either china is

00:24:21.660 very smart they are very long-term thinkers i am in awe sometimes they are in complete control

00:24:31.660 of the entire ecosystem from mining to smelting and refining which has terrified

00:24:40.860 american government and now with with metals like rare earth metals tungsten

00:24:45.900 antimony a lot of strategic minerals that go into military procurement they're basically

00:24:52.860 cutting the americans off and it's starting a panic so they look at seabed mining like they

00:24:59.420 belong to the international seabed authority and they're they're you know they're they're they're

00:25:03.900 they're biding their time because they're in control anyways in a lot of uh metal materials

00:25:08.300 but they're biding their time don't want to make it look like they're they're they're they're evil

00:25:13.500 and they're not evil they're doing anything bad but as i said to you before the program

00:25:20.460 uh it's just a comparison when the americans were looking at landing a man in the moon and they

00:25:27.420 they basically use cape canaveral is their their source point and so what ended up happening is a

00:25:34.300 cluster of universities and engineering and technical people all devoted into making sure

00:25:41.420 that the americans land a man on the moon safely all uh clustered around cape canaveral and to

00:25:49.980 this day it is one of the most high-tech clusters for this this sector well the chinese are doing

00:25:56.380 the same but not for space they're doing it for deep sea mining and for deep sea understanding

00:26:04.300 and there's a do they want to live in the ocean it's not they want to live in the ocean but they

00:26:09.820 They realize that a lot of potential for resource extraction is going to be coming from the ocean.

00:26:20.180 It's also, when you understand the ocean, you understand where the undersea cables are.

00:26:25.860 You understand where your submarines can go.

00:26:28.380 There's a lot of military applications as well as mining applications that the Chinese can do.

00:26:35.600 And they've picked a city on Hanan Island in the south.

00:26:40.640 And they're basically doing a Cape Canaveral, but it's with deep sea mining.

00:26:46.920 And people sort of throw things out.

00:26:49.700 Oh, we're going to be mining the moon or we're going to be mining an asteroid.

00:26:52.920 That's fantasy.

00:26:55.100 Right.

00:26:55.740 I agree.

00:26:56.460 I agree.

00:26:56.960 I know.

00:26:57.620 Let me talk about it.

00:26:58.760 I see these articles and I just go, the absolute cost of being able to do this,

00:27:03.260 the logistics are just insane.

00:27:06.180 But under the sea, now that is something that we can do.

00:27:13.460 And we've already, like the late 70s, we've actually gone in, brought these nodules up.

00:27:19.060 But for a lot of reasons, we didn't move forward with it.

00:27:24.200 But now with the shortages in a whole slew of minerals and geopolitics, and even in this country,

00:27:32.840 indigenous issues that are slowing down development in the ring of fire um there's a real appeal to

00:27:42.680 the the uh these nodules underneath the ocean yes the environmental movement is going to scream and

00:27:49.160 yell and the chinese just kind of probably roll their eyes and just go who cares yeah they don't

00:27:54.280 affect us uh and so basically they're setting up the infrastructure ready to jump on this

00:28:02.840 once the timing is right yes and that is where the americans need to look at and say okay

00:28:11.400 we need to do another cape canaveral somewhere on maybe the pacific coast but focused on uh

00:28:18.360 deep sea mining in the ocean we need to be as technologically as superior as good as the

00:28:25.800 chinese or else they're going to eat our lunch like they did with rare earths and tungsten and

00:28:30.200 a lot of other materials which is interesting because i was trying to figure that out before

00:28:34.680 the show because now you have um the trump administration kind of paving the way to give

00:28:40.280 permits you have a canadian company out of vancouver who's trying to do this hybrid model

00:28:45.880 as i mentioned where they're shipping they're tolling they're refining is actually through

00:28:50.440 other countries and other i guess uh friendly countries to the u.s yes so that's kind of where

00:28:56.920 they're trying to so i'm wondering how much of that is actually backed by the u.s right so how

00:29:02.760 much of that is actually because it's to their benefit right oh yes yes we are sitting kind of

00:29:07.080 on the sidelines on it we haven't you know one way or the other um other than the fact that we

00:29:12.520 benefit probably from more uh metals coming into the world yes but but we're sort of saying okay

00:29:19.080 we're going to wait on this moratorium the u.s is kind of going all in on this and the chinese are

00:29:25.080 sitting kind of just waiting to move as they do the research on it yeah they're quietly setting

00:29:30.760 up the infrastructure for them for the entire ecosystem that needs to be in play for deep sea

00:29:38.040 mining of these nodules and you know you need specialized vehicles titanium clad to withstand

00:29:45.320 the pressures of being 4 000 meters or 6 000 meters underground how efficient can you scoop up these

00:29:56.360 these nodules and with the metals uh company trying to mitigate any environmental like there's

00:30:02.840 not a lot there but it doesn't mean they're going to be given they want to dismiss what is there

00:30:08.200 they want to be as environmentally sensitive as possible well they're worried about you know and

00:30:13.240 i was going through it before they're worried about migration patterns of animals of course of

00:30:17.400 the fish and the you know the uh marine life so uh you know that is the big thing and then they're

00:30:25.320 really worried about uh disrupting the marine ecosystem and the biodiversity of it right so

00:30:31.720 okay let's do a little backdrop on on just what happens in the ocean okay the first 200 meters are

00:30:38.440 your most productive that's where you have your whales and your sharks and these big schools of

00:30:42.520 fish uh i just came from the atlantic ocean down in st john's well there you go so you so that is

00:30:50.200 where a lot of um economic activity a lot of uh oil drilling uh we use it as a transportation

00:30:57.320 network i think 80 percent of i thought 80 percent of of uh global trade is on the ocean so you've

00:31:04.120 got boats going willy-nilly and and it it is your prime uh biodiverse area with with fish populations

00:31:14.600 from one to 200 meters right 200 meters to a thousand meters and that is where the light hits

00:31:21.320 so you have photosynthesis yes so you have a lot of activity going on from 200 meters to a thousand

00:31:27.960 meters uh there's still light flow coming through still a surprising amount of biodiversity uh fish

00:31:35.720 populations jellyfish here from 1 000 to about 3 000 less so and then you go from 3 000 to 4 000

00:31:46.440 even less so when you get to from 4 000 to 6 000 where these potato size nodules are

00:31:52.920 it's totally black right okay uh the the the pressure for for fish populations like sharks

00:32:00.120 don't go down there because there's there's nothing to eat right most of the creatures are

00:32:07.560 smallish uh there's some kind of four foot eel that is able to withstand the pressures and be

00:32:14.680 able to eat whatever is there but the biodiversity is probably well it is the lowest in the ocean

00:32:21.320 ecosystem yeah so and and again you're working on one and a half percent of the area of the the

00:32:30.840 oceans in the world so even if you were to like be totally not caring about the ecosystem

00:32:39.080 it's certainly the impact would be infinitesimal uh but this company is basically even with

00:32:47.240 those constraints in very low biodiversity they're still trying to mitigate their impact on that

00:32:54.680 ecosystem but we got to remember that ecosystem is you know they make it sound like it's basically

00:33:01.000 the great barrier reef which is very shallow okay and it's not yeah you see these coral areas

00:33:09.000 and these clown fish and and you know it's saving nemo and it's starfish and all this color that is

00:33:16.920 not the clipperton uh abysmal plane zone it is dark it's like i don't want to say hell but but

00:33:26.920 but in a in a in the sea it's sort of a hellish version because deep pressure dark and lack of

00:33:35.160 biodiversity right so if you're going to mine someplace and disrupt it somewhat this is a

00:33:42.440 perfect place right and that's the argument they make right that is the argument they make and

00:33:47.080 you know uh environmentalists really come up with the the argument that they come up with

00:33:52.600 is that it's going to impact zooplankton and uh micro micro nicotine and basically two types of

00:34:01.800 fish or marine life yeah that is going to affect eventually what they believe may affect shrimp

00:34:07.560 and other fishes that people eat so that's the that's the argument that's being made and i know

00:34:12.440 there's there's many uh there's a few oceanographers from uh hawaii that are coming out and they're

00:34:20.140 saying you know i'm they're concerned about it they want it focused on so that is the pushback

00:34:25.320 that's occurring right okay and then of course the next pushback you know which is a more of a

00:34:30.260 business risk that people are talking about is you know are the valuations good you know is it

00:34:37.300 really going to be that plentiful um and that that is always a business risk in any mining right so

00:34:43.120 in any mining like you know that one i find a little more interesting because that is really

00:34:48.380 doing your you know um we watched a couple clips going into the show and they're like well you know

00:34:54.240 is it going to be successful you've been in out of 10 years you know is it going to work well

00:34:59.300 you can ask that about any mining project right it really is you know you do the best studies you

00:35:05.060 can you do the best research you can you do the best uh test drills you do whatever you do right

00:35:11.280 and you come up with the best plan there is some luck to it right but people say well you've been

00:35:18.160 at it for 10 years but something's changed dramatically with the second trump administration

00:35:23.820 first they understand the importance of mining number two ai and data centers and evs and

00:35:32.040 the electrification of everything, people are starting to understand that the demand for metals

00:35:37.960 is doing a hockey stick. And then on top of it, China is a major owner and refiner of a lot of

00:35:46.500 these critical materials, especially materials that go into military procurement. So now there's

00:35:53.720 security supply okay uh much of the indonesian nickel industry is chinese owned yes i did know

00:36:02.360 that so you you want to make sure that you're not dependent on the chinese because of trade issues

00:36:09.240 and and it's basically uh you know the americans want to be able to be feel okay about where they

00:36:16.440 get their metals from and well they said it even in their uh strategic defense plan i do it on many

00:36:22.280 shows they come straight out and say it you know they want to be in control of their own defense

00:36:27.320 their own procurement their own like they're you know that is the western hemisphere strategy that

00:36:33.000 they've actually been very you know i always say on shows they have it right on their website for

00:36:38.120 canadians who want to get the real story about what americans are thinking you don't have to really

00:36:44.760 look very far you just go onto the white house website and it's kind of funny there are times

00:36:49.240 i read canadian media and i'll be you know mainstream media and i'll i'll go to the the

00:36:53.800 white house website and i'll just read what they're really saying yeah the two are diametrically

00:37:00.920 opposite yes if our left-wing media uh would hold the the environmental ngo sector is a big business

00:37:14.440 sure they are as big a business as is uh the mining sector the oil sector the pharma sector

00:37:21.480 if our left-wing media would hold the ngo sector to the same accountability

00:37:27.960 as they try to do with mining and oil and pharma then it would be a great world you'd get some

00:37:35.240 balance reporting but but basically anything the environmental movement says our left-leaning media

00:37:42.760 generally as opposed to the national post have turned into pr stenographers well they can't

00:37:49.000 they can't be wrong they're ngos they're lying through their teeth they literally i'm i read

00:37:55.240 something this morning and and i'm just going my god that is just so wrong and and but nobody

00:38:01.800 challenges them part of it is it's complicated mining is complicated oil is complicated oh it is

00:38:08.440 uh so you have someone who's done a phd in gender studies and is now covering the mining beat i'm

00:38:15.640 i'm making this up but but they don't they may not have the um intellect or the capacity to

00:38:22.280 understand it and this is what's what's coming across in canada's media yeah no no and i know

00:38:28.760 that i think i've shared with the the viewers and yourself stan i was a cpa early when i was younger

00:38:35.400 and uh some of my clients were in the mining business okay so i used to have to read the

00:38:41.160 studies and the feasibility studies and the research studies and quite frankly i would i'd

00:38:46.680 look at it from an economic perspective and then i'd go get a engineer to actually explain the

00:38:51.160 rest of me okay but i found it very interesting right because by you know sitting in those

00:38:55.320 meetings and listening to the engineers and then trying to decipher what that meant from a financial

00:38:59.960 perspective and whether it was you know whether they could actually make that statement or

00:39:05.160 what disclaimer we had to put on it i learned a lot right and so but but it is very uh it's it's

00:39:13.240 uh complicated and this is complicated too but but i do find it i do find it interesting and

00:39:19.160 you know what i got halfway there i gotta tell you you know but i started off on them you know

00:39:25.000 originally when i heard you know and i did get halfway there i you know and i i do believe

00:39:30.500 there's benefits so you know i went from kind of zero to 60 and i do believe there's benefits i

00:39:36.840 understand the rationale which thank you today for describing because i do understand why you do it

00:39:41.880 now yeah i do understand that there's not as much harm um i don't understand the valuation because

00:39:48.160 i haven't spent enough time to look at it so you know no disclaimers on valuations and whatever

00:39:53.480 but that's the private sector and they're willing to take the gamble yeah and and they have investor

00:39:57.860 money yeah and and and if it works it works and if it doesn't well obviously some you know obviously

00:40:04.080 a group of people believe this is going to work yeah yeah because they put a substantial amount

00:40:08.700 of money in it and they're full in on it because when you go that large on an investment they must

00:40:13.440 believe you know and when you actually spend a little time i went through the annual report this

00:40:17.780 morning just of that one company you know it's a very interesting compelling read so i i for our

00:40:23.080 viewers you know i i do uh if you have time i think you should take a look at their annual report

00:40:28.240 it's very interesting they you know many of the things you're saying they do talk about um but

00:40:34.440 yeah you know sea mining something i never thought of the and the reason i beat up on the

00:40:40.140 environmental movement and this is a real example of where they've interfered with public policy

00:40:46.720 and been detrimental not only for the environment but for the country is they convinced germany to

00:40:52.940 shut down their nuclear industry all their nuclear reactors because they just did the fear-based

00:40:58.960 mongering this is germany they they invented the automobile yeah rest assured they if they built a

00:41:07.980 nuclear reactor it's the best in the world okay even though i'm a canadian and yay yay can do but

00:41:14.500 it's german technology and engineering and they managed to bamboozle and and and bully uh their

00:41:23.300 political elite to shut this down so what ended up happening well i don't have enough electricity

00:41:28.660 so i have to import some electricity from france which is 70 nuclear supplied electricity

00:41:33.780 so that wasn't too smart uh and then and then that wasn't sustainable so the only thing they could do

00:41:39.540 was they would dig up their old lignite coal deposits and use that to create electricity

00:41:46.580 now in the hierarchy of coal mining lignite is the worst yeah the awful the most carbon producing

00:41:54.660 material but they have no choice you have to be able to it's germany i want to be able to click

00:42:01.620 on the light and it needs to work and so if i have to burn uh lignite coal to make that happen

00:42:07.700 because they didn't have the backbone to tell the environmental movement you're

00:42:15.940 you're crazy yeah and and you're not thinking this through right well so so now that now the

00:42:21.940 environmental movement is going on that the entire ecosystem of the world ocean world is going to

00:42:27.460 come to pieces go to pieces even though we're drilling for oil in the ocean one-third uh because

00:42:33.140 we're we're we're putting vehicles on the the bottom of the ocean six miles not six sorry

00:42:39.380 kilometers under water to gather potato size nodules like you you have to almost look at them

00:42:47.140 and go are you insane and then so then you ask the environmental movement so where do we get our

00:42:52.580 metals uh recycle uh no we're expanding yeah there's there's eight and a half billion people

00:43:02.420 who want the same level standard of living oh well then you just have to do with less so here are

00:43:08.420 white well-off western individuals predominantly white telling uh south asians and chinese and and

00:43:19.140 and and uh east um africans do without even though we beat you to the punch if that's not

00:43:27.380 uh environmental racism i don't know what is right like seriously it so this is why i beat

00:43:33.940 up on the environmental movement because to them it's just a big business now and i just have to

00:43:38.420 oppose oppose oppose the left-wing media doesn't put uh put me to task and i need to raise money

00:43:47.940 so i i you know pretend that it's basically uh the great barrier reef garden of paradise

00:43:55.220 uh six kilometers uh underneath and no one is challenging them yeah so sorry i'm i'm just

00:44:03.460 i'm getting a little cynical and cranky in my old age no no i appreciate it stan and thanks for

00:44:08.340 taking the time because you did take me honestly like i mentioned you took me to take a full look

00:44:13.700 at it um i you know listen i'm gonna i'm gonna definitely uh stay tuned and watch this because

00:44:19.220 i'm very interested you know i've i've you know in ontario or in canada we've seen uh you know

00:44:25.540 the last six months especially the oil and gas industry just bounce all around so i'm very

00:44:31.060 interested to see where we're going and and you know we've seen us to go to electrical back to

00:44:36.100 oil and gas and then we've seen all these other things you know mining we're now seeing uh offshore

00:44:43.060 we're we're actually trying a bunch of new projects so i really appreciate when you when

00:44:48.020 you actually come in and sort of help me understand all this stuff provide some context like i say we

00:44:53.300 for two for decades now we have no problem going to the ocean to uh drill for oil but for some

00:44:59.060 reason it's it's cataclysmic that we're actually going uh uh six kilometers uh beneath the surface

00:45:06.980 to uh basically uh gather potato size nodules that could make a real impact in uh the scarcity

00:45:15.380 of critical minerals that we need thank you stan thank you

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True Patriot Love - August 10, 2026

Deep-Sea Mining： Environmental Disaster or Necessity？ ft. Stan Sudol

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