00:02:03.180We've broken the world into its various components in terms of understanding, well, how many people around the world are suffering from various distinct mental health issues,
00:02:13.020be that treatment-resistant depression, major depressive disorder, PTSD, anxiety, all the way down to schizophrenia, bipolar, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, traumatic brain injury that a lot of our athletes face, and so on.
00:02:27.520And then looking at what is currently working, what is not working, and how can we disrupt that?
00:02:35.340And all that's been transpiring in sort of the underground movement with psychedelics has given us so much profound anecdotal information and evidence to suggest we need to look at this more seriously.
00:02:50.060And so we decided to set up a fund six years ago to get into this, predominantly our own capital, and that belonging to our friends and family, and the rest is history.
00:03:01.180I mean, it's been a very difficult ride, but we stuck to our knitting, and we're very excited about the future, very excited.
00:03:11.120I'm excited for you, first of all, from an economic standpoint, to see a company here in Canada breaking waves and doing well financially, that's amazing.
00:03:22.540And then to make a departure from the standard, I guess, or the traditional pharmaceutical world, kind of also makes me feel good.
00:03:32.400And the reason for that is, I think I'm now being trained that ancient medicine, organic medicines, plant-based treatments are starting to be really verified.
00:03:45.560There's veracity to the research, and has that just become more and more apparent on your journey?
00:03:53.620It's really fascinating, you know, because I was having this discussion just yesterday with a very interesting group of individuals, very learned individuals,
00:04:01.460which is that I felt that there's a very distinct zeitgeist that's taking place overall, especially more so in Western cultures, also in Eastern, but more so in Western cultures,
00:04:11.740where there's this inherent distrust of institutions, okay?
00:04:17.000So when you take a look at what's happening in the crypto space, which I know very little about, but...
00:04:22.660I know enough to lose thousands at a time, so consult me anytime.
00:04:26.760So it's a space that, you know, I was trying to understand the philosophy behind it, and it's very simple.
00:04:32.640You don't have faith in the central banks.
00:04:35.760You don't have faith in the fiat currency.
00:04:41.020And that's really the crux behind what's, you know, really driving crypto and the potential for crypto to get to where, you know,
00:04:49.040everybody's expecting it to potentially get to and how that's going to take over in some cases.
00:04:52.800In the same way, there is a distrust for our medical institutions and our doctors that are trained in certain ways.
00:05:00.280And it kind of actually surprises me that at no point in medical school do any of these soon-to-be doctors ever learn about the importance or the role that trauma plays in our life.
00:05:12.280It's true that we now know, I mean, it's scientifically proven, that parts of the brain retain trauma, that then this is the operating system for everything else in your body,
00:05:27.580your organs, your heart, everything in that central nervous system obviously is connected.
00:05:34.100And so that we don't look at that is very interesting.
00:05:40.360We don't understand how some people are better able to cope and, you know, kind of, you know, have regulate their parasympathetic nervous system and others are not.
00:05:49.380We also don't really, truly appreciate and understand, you know, how distinct trauma that happens at different points in your life have, you know, bigger impact, lesser impact, so on.
00:05:58.100So we're not studying trauma and, you know, when you take a look at, you know, the phenomenal work done by people like Dr. Gabor Matty and there's so many others, it all stems from trauma.
00:06:10.500Even Stan Grof was considered to be one of the father figures in psychedelics in just in terms of understanding the importance of it and what it can really show us about who we are.
00:06:20.080There is a lot of his research is based on the trauma that we face just coming out of the birth canal, and he can show it scientifically that if you had struggles coming out of the birth canal, that actually impacts your parasympathetic system and, you know, can have an impact on the way you operate and view life.
00:06:39.860Well, even generational trauma seems to be another good example of that.
00:06:44.260That is a, that's a, that's an excellent one to highlight, right?
00:06:47.520Well, epigenetics has shown us that it's not just nurture, right?
00:06:52.740It's not just, it's, it's, well, it's not just nature.
00:06:56.440It's, it's what we picked up from being in the environment that we are and the surrounding that we are and the way we've been raised and the way we've been conditioned, right?
00:07:09.280So, so much of our conditioning takes place at such a young age and we're told to wear different masks.
00:07:15.500And so most of our life, we're, we're learning to put on different masks for different people.
00:07:20.640You're a husband, you're a, you know, a spouse, a partner, you're, you're a sibling, you're a coworker.
00:07:26.880I mean, it goes on and on and you put on different masks with different folks.
00:07:29.940And in some, at some point you lose who you really are.
00:07:33.820And there's a beautiful line from Aldous Huxley in, in, in one of his books where he talks, we toil away in our everyday lives so that we can avoid facing ourselves.
00:07:42.560And that is the most difficult thing to do is to face yourself in the mirror.
00:07:47.120That being said, the beautiful thing about psychedelics that we've seen is that it allows you to do that in a way that doesn't scare you.
00:07:55.640There's like a, uh, I guess a force field between us wanting to do that and having the ability to do that.
00:08:04.400It is a frightening bridge to cross to take a look at yourself.
00:08:35.820So whether it's work, there's, you know, we, we don't talk enough about work addiction and being a workaholic and how that impacts your family life and your own life and so on.
00:08:45.180There's all these other addictions to substances.
00:08:48.100There's also addictions to certain sex addictions.
00:08:50.540Those are, those are all addictions because you're trying to avoid something and not look at yourself.
00:09:02.840I think that's all become part of the general science of understanding ourselves and mental health is making these breakthroughs every day.
00:09:15.380And now you, what you say is some of that journey can be an easier journey, I suppose, or it can actually begin with psychedelics at the helm.
00:21:55.140It's so fascinating because you've got tribes in West Africa that have been ingesting and using Ibogaine from the Iboga plant that grows indigenous in Gabon.
00:22:09.000And they've been using it to, in their, in sort of, according to their narrative, to communicate with the Sirius constellation, which is the dog star, right?
00:26:45.940Even we found in sort of what they uncovered in China, they were little kind of vessels, a little, and they had a hallucinogenic substance in there or an entheogenic substance.
00:26:57.360And that was drunk at distinct gatherings.
00:27:06.080And there's a profound book written by Brian Mororescu and Andrew Coe, which is called The Immortality Key.
00:27:13.200And all he did was, and Andrew Coe is at MIT.
00:27:16.620Brian is a phenomenal, phenomenal, you know, journalist slash author.
00:27:21.240And he spent 11 years, they spent 11 years writing this book.
00:27:24.080And all they did was, they went back into sort of the museums of antiquity and they scraped the bottom of the vases and sort of, you know, and these pots to just see what was the, you know, archaeochemistry in there.
00:27:38.200And their view was that, you know, most of all these, all the wine was laced with psychedelics to the extent that they have made a very strong case that the Eucharist, as we understand it, had that layering of psychedelics there.
00:28:06.760Another one that gets my attention is ayahuasca, where it's comprised of a root and a leaf that have nothing to do with each other from two different parts, from a great distance apart from one another.
00:28:22.160How, how did any, and by the way, ayahuasca, maybe a quick two minute description of what ayahuasca is and how it's being used.
00:28:31.400And then maybe, unravel that one for me.
00:28:34.200Who ever discovered, okay, if you put this and this together and you cook it at this, how did humanity find this, what seems to be a very effective cure for trauma, drug addiction, and many other mental illnesses in many people?
00:28:49.600You know, this, this started with, with me going down to Brazil in 2009 with Graham and a few other academics.
00:28:59.300There was Michael Winkleman there and Luis Eduardo Luna.
00:29:27.360And he created a garden around it, even grew ayahuasca and other entheogenic plants.
00:29:33.660And I went and had an experience there to truly understand and appreciate the ways of the Shipibo tribe, which he's a master at.
00:29:41.220And so the, this is one of those bizarre kind of situations where you go, listen, there's a hundred thousand different species of foliage in the Amazon.
00:29:50.240But only if you take this vine and you come, and you combine it with that particular plant, do you get ayahuasca?
00:30:00.300So analogy I use is you're seeing a tornado or some sort of a, yeah, you know, whatever wind tunnel thing, kind of going through a junkyard and creating a Mercedes C class to the D.
00:30:29.140That's Terrence McKenna's stone ape theory, which is that there was a massive shift in our consciousness, in our cognition, in the way we operated as humans 200,000 years ago.
00:30:40.180And that was because somebody decided to follow the shit and pick the mushrooms for me and go, this is doing something for me, we've got to have this.
00:31:35.120But there's nothing hallucinogenic about it, right?
00:31:38.640What it has, a core part of its makeup as one of the molecules it's got, it has monoamine oxidase inhibitor, which basically means it has the ability to suppress your stomach acids from eating anything or digesting anything.
00:31:53.900So when you combine the vine with the chacruna plant, which is where DMT resides, dimethyltryptamine, right?
00:32:03.420That's, you know, that's, that's, that's, all living things have that.
00:32:07.660It gets secreted in copious amounts close to death.
00:33:19.640But we have yet to prove, although the scientists all know that DMT is a neurotransmitter, but we have to technically kind of prove it.
00:33:29.840We still live in this world where you've got to go through all these different processes, you know, and just kind of loops and hurdles and to get stuff done.
00:33:39.620Although we all know that it is what it does.
00:33:41.660Because I am very hopeful that at some point, not in the too distant future, we will have that ability to recognize that there should be a vial of DMT in every operating room.
00:33:52.460Imperial College in London is doing some profound work into this as well.
00:33:55.900But anyway, the chacruna plant, again, has the DMT.
00:33:59.280When you combine the monoamine oxidized inhibitor, which suppresses the stomach acids from eating the chacruna leaf.
00:34:05.500Because if you just had the chacruna leaf on its own, it would do nothing.
00:34:21.900Now, how they decided how to beat the vine into a pulp and then combine it with the chacruna leaf and boil it for three days and condense it.
00:34:31.120It's kind of like how we probably figured out maple syrup, you know.
00:35:13.380And now, you know, I'm not, I don't want to take this into a different direction entirely, but there are distinct benefits to not smoking nicotine.
00:35:44.180It's still controversial because when you say something like this, you're going to probably get a lot of your viewers going, what the hell are you talking about?
00:36:52.580And, you know, this is where my own theory on this gets maybe a little wonky.
00:36:58.500But when you take a look back at, at, at our history, the relationship between, you know, us humans and something numinous, God, consciousness, whatnot.
00:37:13.060There were certain echelons in society that really want to protect that.
00:37:17.820So you can't have a relationship with God one-on-one.
00:37:38.660It was always like you were anointed, even to this day, you know, when we, we take a look at, you know, how all these processes took place, the commemoration and so on.
00:37:52.360And, and, and again, with, with, you know, the Protestant Reformation and so on, it was, there was also a direct link between how much you earned.
00:38:00.040And how rich you were, which meant you were closer to God.
00:38:03.340So when you paraded down these avenues to show your wealth, it wasn't to show the wealth.
00:38:08.800It was actually to show how close you were to God.
00:38:13.160And so I think that there has been a deliberate attempt to try and, you know, keep some of what I call this technology by way of plant medicine away from the hoi ploi.
00:38:27.040You know, and you want to keep it away from the masses, keep it in ability.
00:38:31.000We have the direct interaction with God and so on.
00:38:32.960Well, it also keeps everybody in check.
00:41:28.160What, what psychedelics are being used and for what?
00:41:32.160So, so, so I'll, I'll, let me give you one really important piece of, of, of historical information here, which is, which is critical to this, which is that in 1949, a guy called John Cade in Australia realized that lithium salts were game changing for people that were suffering from mental health disorders and issues.
00:41:52.900Because back in the forties and the fifties, if you had a very serious mental health issue, you were institutionalized.
00:42:03.440And, and very, a lot of very famous families are noted for having had a family member that was institutionalized either in the home, they're up in the attic, you know, they're JFK, like the Kennedys, you know, the, and JFK sister.
00:42:42.740Fast forward from the sixties to the eighties, mid eighties, when Prozac came about, Prozac is literally a slight design improvement to lithium.
00:43:11.780So for a long time, we thought, Hey, we found the Holy grail.
00:43:15.160The hospital beds are freed up by over 70%.
00:43:17.420We didn't understand the long-term implications of this and, and, and, and the metabolic impact and the effect, by the way, there is a piece of literature that's out there.
00:43:27.980That was done by two journalists that actually talked about the fact that, um, a lot of these, um, um, shooters that go into schools or movie theaters or whatnot, two very distinct things about them.
00:43:40.620Either they got off their meds over the last two weeks and did not take them or they couldn't metabolize it.
00:43:48.880And within the first month of taking it and couldn't metabolize it, they went off.
00:43:59.700Um, and there was a big case that took place because there, there was a son that, you know, there's a, there's a, there's a, a young man that was suffering through this, couldn't metabolize it, loved his father, but shot his father.
00:44:13.400So, you know, the story and anyway, but my, so, you know, coming back to, to the history here and why it's important that we started to look into other areas is because we soon realized by the time the nineties rolled around that this stuff is not working.
00:44:58.020I was recently in Calgary and, and I am sorry to report that the, what I was seeing on the street as a result of fentanyl, for example, it is a zombie March.
00:45:20.000And now we're looking for alternative means.
00:45:22.500Yeah, we're, we're, we're starting to explore areas and they're, they're folks that have been working on the fringe specifically with better understanding how psychedelics have played a role with, you know, shaping and, and, and helping us mentally.
00:45:36.100And with our psyche, the CIA knew this well ahead of time, the whole MKUltra, exactly.
00:45:42.540And, and stuff that was going on with the CIA connect, you know, distinct links to Charles Manson and his tribe and his crew, you know, they were using LSD to bring it.
00:45:52.500And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, you know, get folks to do certain bidding in certain ways.
00:46:00.020And so we knew that, that, that, you know, in, in certain areas they were playing with and, and, and better understanding, you know, how to use psychedelics for distinct means.
00:46:10.700but there was you know a lot of work that had been done starting in in the 1870s and 1880s by
00:46:18.120hefter on mescaline synthesizing mescaline and looking at all these various you know psychedelics
00:46:25.860and the impact that it had on the various receptors and what was the mechanism of action
00:46:30.020you know what was it interacting with with receptor was it the serotonin receptor the
00:46:35.660dopamine receptor right and which of those specific receptors was it triggering and so
00:46:40.840those were all coming into learning and then we had enough anecdotal evidence to also show
00:46:46.380that a lot of people that were you know distinctly suffering from you know mental health ailments
00:46:50.920were so much better as a result of this and we started to then learn that hey when you ingest
00:46:57.240some of these there is neurogenesis that takes place which means your brains are creating new cells
00:47:02.100that there's neuroplasticity which is really important to the equation because we often
00:47:07.420think about the same thing in the same way all the time especially your problems right now all of a
00:47:12.520sudden what we're doing is we're saying we're going to shut off the default mode network okay and you
00:47:17.620can't think about that problem that way anymore now you're forced to think about it to come up with a
00:47:22.440different solution that's correct and a different yeah perspective so somebody gives you you're you're
00:47:26.660in a jungle there's a path there that's well-trodden everybody takes it and now that path is
00:47:31.780it recontext is yes the recontext on this is i think how you reposition i think yourself mentally
00:47:38.840is that the the end result very much so you're now sort of forced to to kind of take the machete
00:47:44.120and create a new path for yourself down down to the same you know place that you want to get to
00:47:48.320but now it's a new path and you're going whoa this is this is better much better path that's correct
00:47:52.940and and so that's what it forces you to do another way to explain it and understand it is that
00:47:58.060let's say you know you're dealing with your proverbial 800 pound gorilla in the room
00:48:02.800through the use of distinct psychedelics again done responsibly i want to be very careful that i
00:48:10.160explain this very carefully right this notion that yeah man i took mushrooms in high school and we were
00:48:15.680doing beers and funnels and upside down that no i remember you okay now that you said that yeah okay
00:48:21.220yeah yeah so so it's you got to stay away from you know there is you have to revere these things
00:48:29.660these substances there's a protocol in which you take it you have to prepare for it in advance
00:48:33.960there's also work you need to do afterwards but that being said that's important actually very
00:48:38.920important that's an important incredibly important part of this and also i will say to those that are
00:48:43.780listening that are under the age of 25 including my daughter that your brain is developing to the age of
00:48:49.60025 right okay beware of that yeah be mindful of that don't mess with it let it develop let it develop
00:48:57.160they say the same thing about cannabis and just about any other uh okay so now uh it's funny because
00:49:04.380i have this discussion with people i i will tell you sad that i am a proponent because um we have a
00:49:10.180mutual friend who has your your partner actually in in one of your partners in this business has really
00:49:17.460kept me informed over the years what's going on scientifically with this and i asked you to talk
00:49:22.640about the history of it and the ancient element of it today to to make people realize that this is not
00:49:28.120new discovery that we're not just messing around with with uh the 1970s chemicals now that there is
00:49:35.100an application and the comparison that i make is and i and i actually brought this to the table at home
00:49:39.820the other night was fentanyl's terrible drug right we've got a fentanyl problem don't we it's also the
00:49:46.400number one way we treat pain in measure according to the prescribed amount and it can be used effectively
00:49:55.880but when it is put to the street and synthesized and mixed and made of an escape mechanism that's when
00:50:05.360it becomes a problem just like any drug you know the dead or all pure definition of poison is about
00:50:12.660dosage that's what it is poison is always just about how much of what you're taking you could be
00:50:18.840taking copious amounts of anything good even and it'd be bad for you right it's about dosage at the end
00:50:24.200of the day and so we're you know fentanyl has a purpose in science and anesthesia in pain management
00:50:32.460um but once the commercial aspects get in and you realize wait a second you know we can you know
00:50:38.600this is just a quick way to make money in such a profound way it kind of takes over and and the
00:50:44.160reason why none of the big pharma companies have been focused on cns more broadly but also cns away
00:50:50.940from ssris this again cns being the central nervous system and all their focus has been on you know
00:50:57.720again cancer cardio immunotherapy immunology is because that's where the money is and they seem
00:51:06.280to tamp down symptoms with uh with pharmaceuticals that can be no because because here's what it is
00:51:14.200it takes on average about nine to eleven years to be properly diagnosed with the kind of you know
00:51:21.440mental health condition that you have okay there's a long waiting line and then by the time you get in
00:51:26.780the system there's a process to truly understand it okay then you get on these meds and you realized
00:51:31.460i i don't need to be on these i hate these meds they're ruining my life okay but you can't get off
00:51:37.420of it now because if you do fast and furious you'll be one of those guys that walk into a movie theater or
00:51:44.420the the school and so you know whatever or it can have a very adverse effect of course so there's
00:51:49.720something called a taylor horowitz method and um uh which is that you've got to decrease to the tune
00:51:57.500of six to eight percent every six weeks okay so you're you're reducing your dosage okay but that
00:52:04.120takes another bloody 11 years that's that's a long process yes because percentage is so minuscule and
00:52:11.000and because because of comorbidities you know that you know most people are not just on one medication
00:52:16.140they're on six right because because of pdst they're also dealing with major depressive disorder
00:52:21.200because of ptsd and major depressive disorder they may be dealing with fibromyalgia which is simply
00:52:26.180you know pain plus ptsd that's right kind of the definition of fibromyalgia right i've got pain in my
00:52:33.000body it's some it's trauma related typically it's because of some ptsd and now my body is is showing
00:52:40.720well if your central nervous system is reacting badly to trauma of some sort it's going to have
00:52:46.460some sort of nerve related effect absolutely whether it's fibromyalgia or something else so now
00:52:52.120how uh you're out there uh putting money behind companies that are breakthrough not just in in
00:53:02.360in psychedelics but in many areas but where on the psychedelics end are these applications being made
00:53:10.080in with what psychedelics the key ones are psilocybin which is magic mushroom okay and um and the the
00:53:20.940work that's being done there like first of all you know that ketamine is already out there ketamine
00:53:24.720typically gets talked about as the first real psychedelic that's already legal out there and
00:53:30.960there's so many clinics and they've only got one thing on the menu which is ketamine right and
00:53:34.840regardless of what your problem is it's kind of like you know i have a hammer everything looks like a
00:53:38.220nail right so ketamine will solve the problem come in you know no matter what your ailment is which
00:53:41.920is is not the case now um there's nasal sprays there's intravenous and so on um but it isn't ketamine
00:53:49.080has been is a horse tranquilizer that's been legal for 50 years okay and um but with true sort of
00:53:56.820psychedelics which is magic mushrooms or psilocybin which is lsd um iboga or ibogaine from from the plant
00:54:05.040and in west africa those are the key ones where the focus is right now and more so on psilocybin
00:54:11.680um and the the ailments that they are going after include treatment resistant depression
00:54:18.480major depressive disorder alcohol use disorder and pain management as well um so and pain management is
00:54:27.960again the opioid crisis the fentolin crisis you know the oxycontin crisis right um that's
00:54:35.040you know you you get on on on these pain meds and to try and alleviate a little bit of pain and next
00:54:40.420thing you know you're hooked you're done you kind of you can't get off of it so you know with all due
00:54:45.160respect and and why are financial guys leading the way on this uh obviously needed advancement in
00:54:53.400medicine why aren't the pharmaceuticals that are already there making these advances 10 15 years ago
00:54:59.800when obviously as we just discussed that the results of the science was already in results of the
00:55:05.960science have been in for a long time pharmaceutical companies love a product that just keeps getting
00:55:11.160used and used and used and used and used right so once you're on an ssri i got you yeah i got you for
00:55:17.840a very long time and hopefully you're also taking my other meds or your other ailments in mental health
00:55:25.900because they're comorbidities right you're not just ptsd or also major depressive so you're taking
00:55:30.920other things for those things too i hear everything you're done yeah there's no there's no exit yeah
00:55:35.720you know i i love listening to to certain sort of uh philosophers and by the way i find all these
00:55:42.940philosophers rascals and one of them was osho okay and he talked about the fact that why can't we turn
00:55:49.440our entire medical system into into some into a construct where you find your family doctor
00:55:55.260you pay the family doctor regularly as long as you're healthy right as soon as you're not healthy
00:56:01.400stop being the hospital take your foot off the pedal that's it i'm not paying anymore right get
00:56:06.120me healthy again i'm gonna start paying you right ours is the other way around it's like you know
00:56:10.460it's so it's designed it's incentivized to keep us unfortunately unhealthy because that's the business
00:56:19.200for pharma the more unhealthy you are the better it is for pharma and we go there now what happens then
00:56:24.780is that you know they start to realize and they're always looking for from their sales team
00:56:30.060where is it in the marketing team where is it that we can generate more revenue what are the areas that
00:56:34.440we need to look at so we've exhausted oncology we're starting to exhaust and we're exhausting other
00:56:39.040areas the central nervous system mental health is taking on a big focus why pandemic had a huge part
00:56:45.120to play in that right all of a sudden people came out and started to talk about it a lot more the amount
00:56:49.620of ceos that i've heard of actually come out and say i suffer from bipolar yeah you're like holy
00:56:54.500wow like you know so people are talking about you know the discussions are the acceptance of us saying
00:56:59.360okay absolutely you know you still be part of my friendship still be part of my company still be
00:57:04.620part of my world that's right we are going to be part of the nurturing that you need that's exactly
00:57:09.220that's happening that is that is happening and that conversation that discussion that really came
00:57:14.580from grassroots and that's a beautiful part of it has kind of forced the hand again of another
00:57:20.280institution another establishment in our ecosystem which is the pharmaceutical industry to kind of go
00:57:25.060okay well let's keep an eye on it let's see what happens okay so right great question why the hell did
00:57:30.360some finance bros decide to get into this space i don't see you as bros by the way but i don't you're
00:57:36.660saying you know no but but you know what i mean like i mean i i i personally i'm a little
00:57:42.740shocked as to why the government hasn't taken more of an initiative i'm definitely disappointed
00:57:48.140with some of our bigger institutions here the likes of the canada pension plans ontario teachers
00:57:53.380the hospitals of ontario i mean these guys should have been in this in a bigger way to kind of go
00:57:58.640you know we've got huge portfolios 600 billion plus that we're managing why can't we put less than
00:58:06.000half a billion to work in trying to discover do the research but also own the ip fine the intellectual
00:58:13.960property that is the patents on some of these things but let's research this area mental health
00:58:18.160is such a big issue no no no no no no no sad we have to put that money into the downs view park
00:58:23.360to build a stadium and do something with the airplane hangers yeah but i i know that misdirection
00:58:29.660of thought i do believe that you're in the right space at the right time because we are making a big
00:58:35.200change uh certainly in the in the west maybe in other parts of the world they've been there for a
00:58:40.100while yeah but to see that this is doing well for you guys i mean this is not this is not a a venture
00:58:47.060that fell on its face immediately the results were staggering yeah no look any which way you would
00:58:53.760have sliced and diced it it was a dumb business move it made no sense you're going into an area that is
00:59:04.080absolutely new there's not much research in it there's all the stigma against it and it's you
00:59:10.340know starting to get better understood but it's not there yet any you know warn warn wright who's my
00:59:16.560business partner my best friend my brother and um we've worked together for over 21 years and
00:59:24.680collectively between us we've raised over 20 billion in our careers from institutional investors for
00:59:29.680hedge funds and for the businesses that we ran in the hedge fund and fund of hedge fund space and
00:59:34.480remind me i have an idea to pitch you for my new hydro flask nice nice it's actually they have
00:59:40.580already been invented but anyway i digress but that's that's a that's an impressive portfolio no we you
00:59:46.220know we and we've always been canadian we've always been here we've always been domiciled in canada
00:59:50.620and one of the things that we always kind of like you know scratched our heads about
00:59:53.540was it why is it that canadians are not resonating with us as much we've got all these investors very
01:00:00.040high-flying investors institutional investors from around the world but our own canadians don't
01:00:05.400really kind of they go well how good can you be here in toronto right wow and and and and i come back
01:00:10.340to this notion that you know there are two countries in the world that really you know understand this
01:00:14.540notion of a tall poppy syndrome that's australia and canada they understand it as soon as one poppy
01:00:20.600grows taller than the others you cut it off gotta be like the rest so that's a different discussion
01:00:25.040and that's why i also feel that please come back for that discussion oh man i don't don't get me
01:00:29.120on that discussion that's like why have all our best comedians left our best actors left people in
01:00:33.620the entertainment industry sports industry we cannot wait to stop ourselves right so so anyway so the the
01:00:39.520the point is and i forget my point actually but uh but coming back to oh just the acceptance of
01:00:45.420of this is from a business perspective yeah it it made no sense for us to be in it okay
01:00:49.880we saw a few opportunities at that time compass pathways was private um um you know we had siben
01:00:58.300that was private uh we had a few that were private that we were that we felt that given the data that
01:01:07.220they're suggesting and showing given the path that they're on whether the pharma companies will come
01:01:12.740into it or not people will want it they will want that solution i don't care that makes sense i'm
01:01:19.920going to i'm willing to give it a try because everything else has not worked for me right okay
01:01:23.520and as such we made a bet so warren and i put our own money to work we put money to work from friends
01:01:29.880and family because they were interested it was a mission driven exercise for us and more and more
01:01:35.720people started to find out and we're we're you know we ended up being we're we're we're modest
01:01:40.180organization when i talk about billions before i mean our our assets under management are over 200
01:01:45.300million in this space but we are one of the largest in the world that's still impressive perhaps the
01:01:51.160largest in the world and we've made a lot of investment in psychedelic drug development now i went
01:01:57.180to the institutions institutions and i said guys i'm not understanding why you're not looking at this
01:02:02.060you have all these constituents be that shareholders employees that are suffering from all these various
01:02:09.160mental health ailments this could be a real thing in four to five years why aren't you looking at it
01:02:14.420well they would come up with all various reasons oh you know talk to this department maybe our
01:02:18.300philanthropy department look at it or maybe a charity department like wow like you know so fine we decided
01:02:24.580to do it anyway and the last five to six years have been brutal brutal they've impacted our lives have
01:02:34.320impacted our waking and sleeping they've impacted our relationships with our kids with our spouses
01:02:40.380with our partners it has been brutal it has not been in fact i would have to double kind of think about
01:02:47.880it if you came to me six years ago and go okay here's what you're going to look forward to
01:02:51.860is what may happen after the double it and i'll think about it yeah yeah exactly yeah so but that
01:02:58.580being said was i'm so glad we stuck to our knitting and we're now at a point where um these companies
01:03:05.160that we seeded that we went in at valuations of 8 million 10 million 12 million are now being acquired
01:03:12.900um for well north of 1 billion and and by pharma by big pharma because they're realizing wait a second
01:03:22.920you just showed me results just through phase two trials like in fda trials you go through three
01:03:29.900phases phase one two three phase one is to see if there's any toxicity right phase two is to see if
01:03:34.640it's efficacious with a smaller pool phase three is to see if it's efficacious with a larger pool
01:03:39.340and just in phase two they're being shown results that have never been seen in the history of
01:03:45.780psychiatry history of psychiatry you put any ssri up against this and you're going holy shit how can
01:03:54.540you ignore this now the ottsukas well also you they don't want you out there making noise that might
01:04:00.620actually light a fire against them almost better to be part of the societal change even if only by
01:04:09.320perception sorry to be skeptical but you know that seems to be their mo oh true true okay well
01:04:15.660we'll do it because there's a trend there's a but a more nefarious a more nefarious pathway that
01:04:22.060they've often taken is to quickly go in buy it shelve it yeah never see the light of day i heard a
01:04:30.500funny story uh and i won't keep you much longer by the way uh if people wanted to find out more about
01:04:35.660noetic you can get one of these wonderful hats i'm sure uh where could they find out more well
01:04:40.560you can go on to our website noeticfund.com and we've got a lot of resources there i mean
01:04:46.120we're very mission driven for us it's so important to get the word out there that
01:04:51.800look there are solutions that are coming you know and that are underway that we all should get very
01:04:58.360excited about and as i mentioned major depressive disorder alcohol use disorder pain management are the
01:05:04.040key things that are front and center right we've also got general anxiety disorder that is being
01:05:09.360tackled in a big way treatment resistant depression just by virtue of the term there's no treatment
01:05:15.200that impacts that form of depression it's it's resistant to all treatments right it's the key but
01:05:21.540we're done with treatments we set out on a mission to find cures why not because we were stupid and
01:05:29.980just woke up and said let's find a cure it's because there was enough evidence to show that
01:05:34.180cures in this area are possible it's the one area of science and in medicine that never finds a cure
01:05:41.300right you you break your arm you go to the hospital you get a fix whatever everything at the heart or
01:05:44.460whatever whatever mental health it just you're seeing a shrink for the next 20 years plus years
01:05:48.500or you're on meds or whatever you never get better we're done with that the holy grail for us
01:05:54.020is to see a future and this i credit entirely to warn it's a beautiful analogy that he has and a way
01:06:00.420to explain it is that you know you go to we go now to a dental hygienist for preventative means
01:06:08.040right before you used to go to a dentist every time you had an issue right but then you started
01:06:12.720to see the dental hygienist twice a year three times a year four times a year depending on the condition
01:06:17.120of your teeth and your gums and they cleaned it up and made sure that it was healthy so that you
01:06:22.840wouldn't have to have these issues you didn't need to have a root canal or cavities or whatnot
01:06:26.760and that'd be great to see in mental health space so that you know if you and i were neighbors mike
01:06:33.940i'd walk out and you'd walk out and you go hey how you doing have a good day and i'd say yes mike and
01:06:37.860i'd say oh mike by the way i can't make it to the barbecue tonight because i'm going into the clinic
01:06:41.680for my you know annual or biannual you know treatment for with with psilocybin with whatnot that you
01:06:49.100know i really need to have a reset and to understand my place and just to function better
01:06:54.960and everybody would be okay with it because it's a normal thing to do that would be beautiful to see
01:07:00.700i wish a world like that absolutely you know sad thank you so much for joining us
01:07:06.260sad shah uh noetic and uh thank you very much for to warren your good friend for lining this up as well
01:07:13.200indeed for nia for joining us uh for nick and brady i'm mike uh we'll talk more about this uh in the
01:07:21.300coming days and an upcoming episode about uh and we didn't even touch on it too much today but we will
01:07:26.540in the future um there's a gray market out there for psychedelics that's happening across the country
01:07:32.240seems dangerous and we'd like to know who's behind it more on that in an upcoming episode meanwhile
01:07:38.280today we learned a lot about the history of psychedelics and and where we're going with
01:07:42.880the medicine uh thank you for joining us we'll catch you next time right here on tpl