True Patriot Love - Should Canada Go Nuclear？! Jim Lang & Paul Micucci Debate Canada’s Defence Future

00:00:00.000 Thursday, March 26 was a big day for the Canadian military and the Canadian government as Mark

00:00:09.680 Carney announced that for the first time in a long time, decades, we had hit our 2% of GDP

00:00:16.080 and national defense spending. Now, while all that's going on, some people are talking about

00:00:20.300 whether or not Canada should have a nuclear weapon system like a lot of other countries.

00:00:25.280 To talk more about it, thrilled to be joined, as always, by Paul Micucci. Paul, how are you?

00:00:28.680 Good, Jim. How are you doing? Good, good. It was a big day in Halifax. A long time coming. It wasn't

00:00:34.900 that long ago where we were at 1% of the GDP 12 years ago or so. So to be at 2%, I know it doesn't

00:00:43.220 seem like a lot, but when you're talking about 2% of our GDP, that's a significant increase in

00:00:48.660 spending. Oh, it is a huge increase. And, you know, we're talking about this year, this fiscal

00:00:53.780 year yes going to 60 billion dollars jim which was unheard of just a few years ago and over five

00:00:59.460 years getting to 80 billion correct so we're making we haven't made them uh but we are about

00:01:05.860 to apparently yes the prime minister's announcement today um and you know saying nato had acknowledged

00:01:11.940 that we hit our two percent mark and everything we're about to make commitments it looks like

00:01:17.700 we've set up a group we've set up a structure to make procurement of all these weapons yes

00:01:22.820 personnel it'd be great to have as i mentioned on previous shows it'd be great to have a

00:01:28.260 spreadsheet that said here's how i get the 60 billion because quite frankly i listened to the

00:01:33.060 speech today it was a good speech you know again he's a good orator he's getting better all the

00:01:38.580 time yes but quite frankly i i'm thinking i'm trying to kind of add it up in my head you know i

00:01:43.860 i used to be really good with numbers and i'm trying to figure out okay does that add to 60

00:01:48.820 billion i got to about 30 billion correct and i'm like okay i'm not going any further now so now i

00:01:55.700 can't kind of close it then i pulled some stuff up online and i said okay is there a breakdown

00:02:00.740 of the 62 billion dollars no there really isn't so i couldn't find that there there are documents

00:02:07.060 where you kind of patch together bits and pieces like you figure out uh the norad system's getting

00:02:12.020 $2 billion. We have $20 billion in personnel and readiness and operations costs. But you don't

00:02:19.820 really see the big picture. And that's the challenge with me right now. I love what he's

00:02:26.260 doing. I think we need to do it. I want them to recruit more people. I want them to build better

00:02:31.900 housing for these people. I want them to be paid more money. I want young people to join the

00:02:37.140 canadian armed forces and do amazing things do i think it's smart that he went down to atlantic

00:02:42.060 canada did the announcement you said it before the show atlantic canada needs the jobs i mean

00:02:48.780 if they're building ships and servicing submarines and the infrastructure jobs to actually build the

00:02:55.940 facilities and then do the work in there the welders it's a that's for the maritime economy

00:03:01.700 that's huge paul it is huge you know and i had to laugh because uh he he uh david mcginty and the

00:03:08.180 prime minister came into the hangar and behind them was this massive ship yeah right and what

00:03:17.460 a great picture because they walked kind of in unison like you know eight feet apart down towards

00:03:23.380 the hangar yeah and then they came through the middle of of the forces and i that type of stuff

00:03:28.980 i love like you know whoever did the pr on that good for them but i need a little more detail so

00:03:34.100 it's you know sharpen up i know there's online you're seeing a lot of people kind of right now

00:03:38.980 a lot of chirping about you know well you bought guns okay well what did the guns cost where did

00:03:43.700 you get the guns from like a little bit of detail you're referencing murray brewster from the cbc

00:03:48.980 who's their longtime senior military reporter quite frankly one of the frustrated

00:03:53.860 a threat on x twitter how frustrated he is he just asked a simple question for a breakdown of the

00:04:02.240 they're buying 50 000 new assault rifles for the military at a cost of almost 320 billion and he

00:04:08.300 just a million he's asking well like simple questions he can't get an answer and he says

00:04:13.880 i'm quite frustrated no one will let me know the breakdown of it tell murray to watch the show that

00:04:19.420 you and I did, asking the same questions, because you and I had this show. When the budget came out,

00:04:24.440 you and I did a budget show on the financial breakdown of the defense budget. And I thought

00:04:30.160 it was clearer at that point. It got muddier after, quite frankly, they set up the new commission

00:04:36.320 to oversee all the expenditures and everything else. I think it got a little muddy again. So I

00:04:41.440 think, yeah, I agree with them. We need to kind of go back and clean that up. But you know, it's

00:04:46.040 interesting so your second point when in the monologue when you brought the show in was a

00:04:51.020 really good point because the last few days the discussion about nuclear has hit the airwaves and

00:04:59.640 president macron i don't know if you've followed this and britain have been kind of in this weird

00:05:05.500 dialogue where he's kind of saying to britain you know i'm going to use nuclear as a deterrent

00:05:12.520 he's saying a nuclear deterrent you know for those of you who don't know much france is a powerhouse

00:05:19.200 like us very much you know kind of in the world there's us and france and uh there's probably

00:05:24.740 well no no i don't think china but us and france germany was and then they got rid of it they got

00:05:29.640 rid of it they got rid of it they went the wrong direction on that one so you know we we've kind

00:05:34.640 of advanced us with the can-do reactor and the small reactors we've done a really good job in

00:05:40.140 nuclear and advancing our energy nuclear, but so has France. And so he said in the last few days,

00:05:49.780 you know, I'm going to use it as a deterrent. Now, a lot of that is to do with the war going

00:05:55.500 on in the Ukraine between Russia. You know, there's lots of scuttlebutt that Russia talks

00:06:00.660 sometimes about its dislike of Europe and, you know, the potential nuclear use in Europe.

00:06:07.660 so there has been lots of discussion on the airwaves about that over the last few months

00:06:11.880 you know i listened to it i think we all listened to it uh but you know that's kind of one of those

00:06:18.560 things you listen to and then you unfortunately we all grown to discount it and then the yesterday

00:06:25.340 uh kim jung young right he came out and he was going on and saying i was right so he's like i 0.97

00:06:34.260 was right because look at iran right the same thing would have happened to me if i would have

00:06:39.940 got rid of my nuclear weapons that have happened now to iran and that's all the more reason that i

00:06:46.220 don't listen to this sweet talk from the americans and i amped up in nuclear and he was doing a big

00:06:52.320 speech to his people and i kind of listened to the news and i watched it and you know a lot of

00:06:57.960 his stuff you know i'm always looking for dennis rodman when i see him and you know to pop up but

00:07:03.480 you know you kind of discount it right here's the issue with i i think with someone like uh

00:07:10.800 north korea thinking it's going to keep them safe i guess in some ways it will keep them safe

00:07:16.700 but if he if he's willing to destroy his own country to launch nuclear weapons against someone

00:07:22.680 who tries to take that that's what would happen unfortunately if you use them yeah the other

00:07:28.220 country's like that your your country's dead it's gone it goes back to something from the 1950s

00:07:34.420 mutually asserted destruction so if you have nuclear weapons as a deterrent that means that

00:07:40.940 at some point you would be willing to use them so for the countries that have them they have them

00:07:46.460 knowing that if someone did something to their country their last resort is to unlock the key

00:07:51.300 hit the button and see what may is left of their country afterwards i can't envision any scenario

00:07:57.460 where any canadian politician would take the step to have nuclear weapons on our soil now

00:08:03.700 we had them in europe in the 1960s just tell us um because at the time in the cold war

00:08:10.420 we had a huge military presence in west germany and the americans had so many nuclear weapons

00:08:17.260 stockpiled there they kind of told us like hey unless you're willing to do this this and this

00:08:22.540 you're going to do this so it was cheaper for the canadian government at the time of the 60s

00:08:27.440 to allow them to put an American nuclear bomb on a Canadian fighter jet in large Germany. 0.51

00:08:34.980 So they had a number of planes at the end of the runway, a CF-104G starfighter that was

00:08:40.860 licensed built at Canadair Montreal with Canadian pilots and Canadian crews.

00:08:45.940 And it was guarded by American service people with weapons and dogs.

00:08:49.520 And in case of war, they had X amount of minutes to be in the plane

00:08:53.200 and arm the weapon as they fly towards the target and drop it.

00:08:57.440 Now, the planes didn't have enough gas to get back to base, that they would get a little

00:09:02.180 bit back, eject, and have to walk back to the base if they could, but that's what the

00:09:07.860 reality of the Cold War was.

00:09:09.540 And then eventually, Pierre Trudeau said, I don't want to be part of this anymore.

00:09:13.840 So he opted out.

00:09:15.120 But for a good decade, we had Canadian pilots and Canadian planes who would practice what

00:09:20.140 it would be like if they got the call and had to fly into East Germany or Poland and

00:09:24.380 drop these weapons.

00:09:25.860 Really?

00:09:26.080 Oh, yeah.

00:09:26.600 Oh, I didn't know that. Wow. That's something I never heard.

00:09:30.740 They don't want to talk about it, but my dad lived it because he was stationed over there when I was born and he was in transport command and they would fly and you would see the planes at the end of the runway, the big yellow circle and two big sergeants with weapons and M-16s and dogs.

00:09:46.360 and my dad casually asked one day what would happen if i crossed the line he goes i would

00:09:51.760 shoot you and then that dog would drag your dead body across the other side of the yellow line 1.00

00:09:55.720 because unless you had a special land you're in a special id it was shoot to kill because there 1.00

00:10:01.060 was an american nuclear weapon in the belly of a canadian fighter jet and it was a one-way mission

00:10:06.060 to drop it and then maybe get back so to do it now so most canadians don't know that they don't

00:10:13.620 know that oh okay wow that's crazy to do it now paul there's only three ways to adequately use a

00:10:19.460 nuclear weapon the the ballistic missiles or cruise missiles yep we don't have any of those

00:10:24.960 no a specialized ballistic missile submarine we don't have those we've been waiting decades to

00:10:31.700 order a simple submarine let alone a ballistic missile submarine which is 10 times more expensive

00:10:36.980 a more sophisticated or specialized planes what we so we'd have to create a whole new infrastructure 0.96

00:10:44.180 within the military for a nuclear deterrence and weapons delivery which right now we don't have

00:10:52.180 no as a country yeah and i think you made a good point early jim you know and i had the opportunity

00:10:58.500 a few months ago to spend some time listening to ivana hughes dr ivana hughes and she did a really

00:11:06.180 great uh she has a book a couple books i think now and she did a great great podcast on uh

00:11:13.780 nuclear winter yes so and and it was scary stuff i didn't even know about uh the climate cooling

00:11:20.180 effects it really does create uh you know the smoke and the the fires that happen after and

00:11:28.020 then from there it actually goes to just like literally the atmosphere cools down oh yeah and

00:11:34.420 And then any ice age and then everything dies.

00:11:38.740 And if you didn't see that podcast,

00:11:42.660 Amy Jacobson wrote a book about the nuclear war from the time there's a

00:11:48.720 warning to launch in the aftermath.

00:11:51.480 And it describes that.

00:11:52.580 And it's the most chilling,

00:11:53.940 frightening thing I've ever read that if anyone actually does a nuclear

00:11:57.640 exchange,

00:11:58.240 two countries say it's India and Pakistan,

00:12:00.620 which are both armed and nuclear weapons.

00:12:02.520 Yeah.

00:12:02.600 we would hit the follow would hit us in north america people don't think that but it would

00:12:06.980 because it goes into the atmosphere yeah yeah we don't it is the nuclear winter for the global

00:12:13.260 world yes yeah so so you know and i look at and i think to myself well you know i understand why

00:12:19.780 we agreed i understand where reasonable minds years ago came to the uh opinion not to do it

00:12:26.700 Now, we do do, and we do a good job of all the safeties and securities with our nuclear energy.

00:12:33.360 And, you know, Canada, so let's, you know, it's interesting.

00:12:35.640 Over the last 50 years or more, we've done a great job, you know, whether it's Ontario, which it's Darlington and Bruce Plants and Pickering.

00:12:46.820 We've done an amazing job.

00:12:48.480 And, you know, our energy capabilities, and I took a look, I was curious because I was going somewhere with this.

00:12:54.860 okay i was trying to figure out how many megawatts of energy we have and i was like i wonder what

00:13:01.020 we're at so we have 6200 megawatts in in bruce darlington 3500 and up to 3100 in pickering

00:13:11.100 and then in new brunswick we have 660 in atlantic canada yeah so we have a massive amount of energy

00:13:18.300 produced by nuclear plants nuclear power plants including all the hydroelectric the churchill

00:13:23.420 falls and everything else yeah so you look at like like this is so then i started going okay

00:13:28.780 you know and we've all been very proud of how we the can do reactors have gone to south korea

00:13:34.480 romania china argentina and people have kind of that's one thing that people have really

00:13:39.980 grabbed on to canada and said these guys really know what they're doing when it comes to safe

00:13:44.700 nuclear carbon clean high efficiency uh especially in the can do reactor which is uh uranium and

00:13:52.600 heavy water uh you know with a high neutron efficiency it's really neat technology it's

00:13:58.620 been around since the 60s it's the 60s but we've perfected it yeah and we're now you know the

00:14:03.720 steven lecce and the pickering guys you know we're now building uh small modular reactors

00:14:10.300 at a very it's expensive but at a for energy at a really good price in record times and so for

00:14:19.280 remote areas of um farming communities ontario far northern ontario uh the areas that are far

00:14:26.060 away from those central areas they have access to constant clean energy exactly so which is you know

00:14:32.020 it's interesting so now this is going to give us a capability so now this is where my mind went so

00:14:37.540 and i'm going to step back for a minute and explain how i got there but

00:14:42.140 you know i was sitting there on the couch and i'm watching every night like you do i'm sitting there

00:14:47.100 and i flip between uh cnn fox i do my nightly flip the bbc guy but i get it yeah bbc i you know

00:14:54.980 my it's on my channel list and i go through and i watch a few minutes to see if there's anything

00:14:59.600 new and interesting happening so i started watching it was a series um and i think it was on

00:15:05.740 uh uh bloomberg okay yeah bloomberg was doing a uh show and they were doing a show about the iron

00:15:14.980 dome yeah you know and i'm thinking to myself i heard the iron dome i don't really know much about

00:15:20.960 it so you know i started watching it and i was shocked and even today when i came in i asked

00:15:26.880 everyone do you know what the iron dome is and i realized i didn't really know a lot about the iron

00:15:31.460 dome but i'm sitting there and i'm watching and and you know we're going to put it up on the

00:15:35.900 screen today so people can can learn about the iron dome but then i'm sitting there watching

00:15:40.860 and i'm watching them with these huge trucks bringing these missiles these rockets yeah

00:15:47.180 and basically these hydraulic um launchers it looks like a dump truck when it tips like a dump

00:15:54.220 it looks like you know i was a sanitation engineer in summer so i know dump trucks

00:15:59.180 so yeah sitting there i'm sitting there watching this this dump truck type technology go down and

00:16:05.580 And then I see them loading and then it goes back up and the guys with all their pads and gadgets, kind of like my pet here, run around with the safety helmets and the goggles on and they're sitting there, you know, and then all of a sudden they fire and they intersect the incoming missile.

00:16:24.620 It's an incredible piece of defensive hardware.

00:16:26.980 Incredible.

00:16:27.400 It is, but I couldn't get over how manual it was.

00:16:30.380 and like i you know you had the control system and you had you know these launchers you had the

00:16:37.580 people you had the rocket systems detecting like there's a lot to it right and each of

00:16:43.220 when they set them up they they they go out into the middle of these fields and they set these like

00:16:48.560 like outposts yeah they are with different machines you know they have the the rockets

00:16:55.580 the transportation systems the detection systems the control systems and they have the launcher so

00:17:01.740 they set them all up in these fields and then they're sitting there and they're launching them

00:17:05.580 off and they're strategically putting my guests around wherever they're trying to protect so it's

00:17:10.380 a very manual process it's not you know when i thought iron dome originally when they said it

00:17:14.860 i thought to myself oh this is like a dome that goes over and then no it's not it's and once the

00:17:19.980 missiles are done guess what someone's got to reload it yeah there's a bunch of guys you know

00:17:24.380 moving lifting yeah working i'm thinking to myself this is kind of crazy like and then i'm watching

00:17:30.280 the show and they start talking about okay like if we if we go to iran and we go to you know israel

00:17:35.240 right now they have the iron dome they have david sling they have the arrow two and the arrow three

00:17:42.340 systems and they have uh thad yeah which is an american system as well as the patriot missile

00:17:48.200 system right so then i'm thinking stuff i wonder what the different like i wonder what they all are

00:17:52.880 So then I got curious because I'm sitting there.

00:17:55.000 And so I started, you know, doing some research into it.

00:17:57.500 Well, the interesting part, and we're going to put it up also on the screen for today.

00:18:01.800 The interesting part that I learned is they all have different capabilities based on missile distance range and altitude.

00:18:10.600 Yes.

00:18:11.040 And speed and everything.

00:18:12.180 and everything so you know like uh the you know the uh if i go back here the thad is for extra

00:18:21.700 high altitude alongside uh the israel's system so they use it for very high altitude missiles

00:18:29.680 and then the iron dome is for short range low altitude yeah so the stuff that they're shooting

00:18:35.820 across the water and well and from lebanon too and from lebanon so it really is used for really

00:18:41.440 quick response to short range missiles yeah let's call it david sling is medium range and more

00:18:48.260 advanced so it has a more advanced so you can only imagine right now there's they're sitting

00:18:54.500 there and there's a bunch of guys loading all these systems and they're shooting them up like

00:19:00.420 you know and so we said why is this so expensive and why so costly well we don't see any of that

00:19:06.920 because they don't want to show us where the locations are.

00:19:09.620 But I started watching it, and I was just shocked.

00:19:13.040 And Paul, as sophisticated as all that is,

00:19:16.320 they don't get every missile and drone.

00:19:18.600 Well, how could they?

00:19:19.540 It's not possible.

00:19:20.360 So even if it's at their very peak, they maybe get 90% to 95%.

00:19:25.260 That means 5% to 10%.

00:19:26.620 That's what you see in the news when you see explosions on American bases

00:19:30.420 and in Tel Aviv and different parts of Israel,

00:19:33.040 because some get through.

00:19:35.260 well and and the interesting well not the interesting the terrible part of this you know

00:19:38.860 the other day you saw the air canada and the fire truck yeah you know at la guardia you know what

00:19:44.440 human error absolutely right and you can see it like you you know we're all listening to that

00:19:50.500 you know stop stop he's telling he was doing three jobs at that night three three jobs and he he did

00:19:56.100 you know picked it up late but he had four or five seconds he's trying to get him that gentleman

00:20:00.260 driving the fire truck didn't look right there's a whole bunch there's a sequence of mishaps that

00:20:05.240 lead to accidents right now you can only imagine so imagine this like you now have uh potentially

00:20:13.000 five different missile systems in play yes right versions i i the arrow two and three they roughly

00:20:20.000 do the same thing they're different versions but by the way canada has none of that zero well no

00:20:25.940 that's zero so if anyone fired anything into our country against montreal toronto calgary vancouver

00:20:32.640 we don't have anything on our soil for the the military has been begging for it for years

00:20:38.100 there's nothing to stop anything to hit any city in Canada not a thing exactly well well you know

00:20:43.840 water we're divided by you know we have a big uh you know we have a big uh land mass or water

00:20:50.000 mass between us but but you know so the interesting part of this is I'm I'm watching

00:20:54.720 and I'm thinking to myself my goodness can you imagine the logistics logistical nightmare that

00:21:00.660 occurs in these places when these go on because you have five different systems that means you

00:21:06.340 probably have hundreds of people that are trying to logistically ship locate place fire connect

00:21:16.160 and then you have then you have the breakdowns of technology you know coming into the show you know

00:21:21.560 just coming into the show the amount of logistical glitches we had just to scan a document to get

00:21:29.400 the show off you know and i think to myself imagine if you were how much you'd be sweating

00:21:34.460 is every day you had to make sure your missile detection system was up and running working

00:21:40.680 perfectly calibrated because you can imagine the physics with which these things are are

00:21:45.960 determined off it so you know you have to have the if you're absolutely if your trajectory is wrong

00:21:51.220 you're going to miss that incoming missile right and paul they don't know if you're in israel and

00:21:56.440 you're using all those defense systems they are assuming they're conventionally armed weapons

00:22:01.740 they don't know i mean as of now we don't think iran has nuclear capability it only takes one

00:22:08.540 oh yeah it would only take one and they don't that's the talk about pressure well you know and

00:22:14.260 it's interesting because you you know you're telling the story which is a great segue this

00:22:18.340 you know i didn't we didn't even talk about it you just told the story about your dad in that

00:22:22.080 conversation but you know we're talking about this our story in canada the fact that we did

00:22:27.680 have nuclear bombs in germany yeah yeah and we had them in planes yep canadian planes and canadian

00:22:35.620 crews canadian pilots how did how did we ever know if there were any like the fact that you can put

00:22:42.040 it in a plane ship it somewhere and it's there like only the a few people know that right like

00:22:48.120 at some point like that's a very top secret so the transportation yeah so they were american

00:22:53.900 weapons the america had so many over there they basically drove them in secure trucks to the

00:22:59.840 canadian forces base large germany and basically here was the thing and they had them permanently

00:23:06.000 attached to the belly of a couple planes every day yeah they were always that ready to go yeah

00:23:11.360 well but for years but you know the fact that they could be shipped like anywhere yeah means

00:23:16.700 they could be you know they could be on a boat and arrive in any country and you won't know until

00:23:21.120 they know until they arrive so so you know then i started thinking i'm i'm listening to this and

00:23:26.700 the fact that you're saying canada we don't have anything no so as we're talking about detection

00:23:33.140 systems and arctic security and everything i'm starting to think to myself okay right who is

00:23:40.720 who has looked at uh nuclear and weapons so i start to kind of put those together and not

00:23:46.860 nuclear bombs yes because when i'm thinking of nuclear i'm thinking of it differently now okay

00:23:52.240 because like after you know dr hughes's uh book and her podcast and you know you've read it you

00:23:58.840 mentioned the other author that you read andy jacobs yeah yeah you kind of say to yourself well

00:24:03.880 you know a nuclear bomb yeah but that would destroy the world so quite frankly you know

00:24:10.560 if that's your purpose not much we can do with that that's just going to happen and you know

00:24:15.300 if you had one I guess you get to you know let it off too that's really what it is but but I'm

00:24:22.000 thinking of using nuclear energy because the energy you need to actually run a system of defense

00:24:27.680 is massive so so then I started you remember the old Battlestar Galactica of course then I started

00:24:34.400 searching around I said okay I'm going to take a look and I'm going to see if anyone's doing

00:24:37.900 laser technology for weapons and you know what they are but the research has been going on for

00:24:46.180 years the research is going and they're getting closer and closer but you know what they call

00:24:50.040 them in the military just for they call it direct energy weapon direct energy weapon you and i call

00:24:57.160 it a laser yeah so they call it a direct energy weapon that could hit a tank hit a ship hit a

00:25:02.740 plane hit a missile and destroy it and what's the challenge they're having well it's the the energy

00:25:09.120 the energy the energy and what are we good at energy right so then i started kind of connecting

00:25:14.320 the two and i'm saying okay so now as we're and you mentioned it earlier on the show as we're

00:25:19.280 taking our small reactors and we're putting them in the arctic we're putting them in uh you know

00:25:23.980 we're a big landmass we're putting them everywhere everywhere you know we're nine million uh square

00:25:29.060 kilometers or whatever it is we're a huge um landmass second in the world only to russia

00:25:34.980 so now as we start placing them all around we can use that power and we can use our detection

00:25:41.300 systems and we can place laser weaponry to at least shoot down because when in the here's my

00:25:47.860 reason on it because my reasoning on it for a defense system if we're going to go to the iron

00:25:55.780 dome which i don't think we are i think that was a trump you know use our iron dome the iron dome

00:26:01.220 is an okay system but it's it's not really effective for what we're going to be seeing

00:26:06.020 we're going to need something that has longer range because anything coming at us would probably be

00:26:11.380 most deadly unless we thought i think it's the same time we need to all countries in nato have

00:26:16.260 to have a more effective drone defense than firing a two million dollar missile at a fifty thousand

00:26:22.020 drone because as we've seen in ukraine and we're seeing in iran cheap drones can do a lot of

00:26:26.940 damage well and that's the iron dome that we're talking about now so therefore getting weaponry

00:26:32.620 that can shoot down you know those drones is the key so therefore you know i'm looking at it and

00:26:38.620 i'm thinking okay not only would we power up places that are not inhabited power up places

00:26:44.060 that are struggling with water clean water and energy and power spikes and all those other things

00:26:50.280 we'd create a grid that also would actually help our defense so then i started looking around i'm

00:26:56.220 thinking okay who's doing this well you know what there are some people that are doing it really

00:27:01.000 well which you know it's interesting and and it's a shame that we haven't really thought about it

00:27:06.620 and you know as i'm going through i'm going to put up some of the pictures uh because the folks at

00:27:12.340 home they might not understand what like a laser drone strike would look like but you know uh

00:27:18.440 Israel's been working on this for quite a while, and they've got a prototype in place of a truck

00:27:25.720 with laser technology on it. Lockheed Martin and the Americans worked on it for years.

00:27:33.360 They've, for the most part, what they've reported, they've abandoned it. So they couldn't figure out

00:27:40.060 a way. And, you know, our U.S. neighbors, they do a lot of things really well. They don't do

00:27:45.860 energy really well they've struggled with energy in their power grid and everything else so they

00:27:50.320 haven't been you know world leaders in energy by any stretch um you know that's that's why now

00:27:55.640 you're seeing conversations where trump gets up there and he goes you know i'm gonna give uh the

00:28:01.040 the ai guys the ability to build their own power generation systems and everything else because he

00:28:07.020 knows he doesn't have any of it but it does take up an enormous amount of energy uh artificial

00:28:11.220 intelligence does it not it does oh yeah well and that's why he's saying let them build it but he

00:28:15.540 wants to also as they build it he wants to use it oh right of course in order to keep his cost

00:28:20.640 because yeah for the u.s being the size of the nation it is a number of people to build a full

00:28:25.540 new power grid and where he is in his debt and he doesn't have the infrastructure to do it no so

00:28:31.080 so that's why they're thinking so then i you know as i'm going through it i'm looking at it and i'm

00:28:35.760 thinking okay that's our next move isn't it jim well and for a lot of different reasons a few

00:28:41.640 months ago the americans experimented putting a small portable nuclear reactor in the back of a

00:28:48.420 transport plane and flying it to a remote base because up until now they used diesel generators

00:28:54.060 yeah diesel runs out and they're thinking wait a second what if we got a small portable nuclear

00:28:59.540 reactor to power a remote base of a few hundred people men and women running a military installation

00:29:05.920 these small nuclear reactors have been powering u.s aircraft carriers for 60 years yeah and they

00:29:11.960 it cleans desalinized water it's their energy it's blah blah blah they've been doing in submarines

00:29:17.860 so the technology and i remember speaking to steven lecce about this the technology is getting

00:29:22.060 to the point especially with can do that they can make a smaller version of it to power not as many

00:29:28.280 people as a big area like southern ontario or the montreal corridor but a small rural area could

00:29:34.660 easily be powered with a small reactor and with that they could have uh civil uh things with it

00:29:41.620 they could use it for military purposes they could use it for multiple purposes right they could have

00:29:46.340 energy to remote indigenous locations to remote towns and if they need it for the military it's

00:29:52.100 accessible right there and then at the end of the day we use it for defense of our borders oh yeah

00:29:58.660 so it becomes our defense mechanism so you know we already have think about all the things that

00:30:03.540 that are unopposed. We have the technology, we have the brainpower, we have the resources,

00:30:08.580 we have the uranium, we have all the precious metals. So quite frankly, we're already equipped

00:30:14.500 to do this. This isn't something we need to be relying on anyone else. And that was, you know,

00:30:18.580 it's interesting. Britain right now, if you listen to the conversation in Britain, what's their

00:30:22.700 biggest complaint? They can't afford anything. They can't afford anything. And they're dependent

00:30:26.940 on France, who already made the leap to go to nuclear for a nuclear deterrent from a weapon

00:30:33.140 perspective and power and power so now they're they're beholding on two fronts we've we've made

00:30:40.380 the capital investment to get into this already because and as canadians and tarians whatever you

00:30:45.940 want any province you want we've made the jump and paul there's another benefit for mark carney

00:30:51.600 and the liberals so carney has the announcement today on the 26th that they've reached the two

00:30:55.780 percent threshold for gdp for nato all he has to do is start folding in the cost of these modular

00:31:03.020 reactors to remote military purposes and that adds to the budget exactly but all of a sudden

00:31:09.940 you can say well i'm using it for this base and that base but then we have extra so we give it

00:31:14.060 to these people as well exactly and there's the strategy jim see that's and you know we started

00:31:19.420 off the show saying you know a line by line analysis that's the strategy i want to see now

00:31:24.640 and that's i'm like okay you know you're there you're on the podium you got the good photo up

00:31:30.220 You've got your PR adjusting.

00:31:32.520 You're talking to us about some good initiatives.

00:31:35.600 Now, break the line items down, tie it into a strategy, get it to somewhere, and then let's get it into play.

00:31:41.880 And now I'm like, okay, now I'm with you.

00:31:44.200 Now I'm there.

00:31:46.120 Paul, the average Canadian, they see that and go, wait, oh, wait, oh, okay, that town's going to have the clean, accessible energy now.

00:31:53.980 Oh, that indigenous reserve that has been struggling will now have access to this, and we can use it for the military.

00:31:59.860 great yeah as an average canadian you're like the military wins but there are indigenous first 1.00

00:32:04.740 nations people win the small town people remote canada win how do i say no to that yeah and you

00:32:10.320 know what today he's there you know what's the what's you know it's funny you walked in when

00:32:15.080 the press conference was going on first thing you said to me the first thing you said where is it

00:32:20.640 being held no uh no scotia in halifax halifax you said to me the people of halifax are going to ask

00:32:25.780 how many jobs what's in it for me and whatever next question that came i think was the third or

00:32:30.020 fourth question the reporter says how many jobs are going to come to halifax how many right and

00:32:34.600 you were bang on you picked that one right off so fast i was laughing because i'm like of course

00:32:38.940 right i have family there they i used to live in annapolis valley in the height of the recession

00:32:44.560 in the 80s i have family in truro um they it's there's approximately just under a million people

00:32:51.040 Nova Scotia New Brunswick has less you know PEI obviously has less but any infrastructure any

00:32:57.220 industry any jobs that area is invaluable to their bottom line their tax base their GDP to the

00:33:03.820 economy of the area and I mean it didn't used to be like this but you can drive down Halifax

00:33:08.820 and Moncton and other cities the Maritimes and see 10 cities see the unhoused because they have 0.91

00:33:14.220 nowhere to go I know I read about that over the winter there are people in 10 cities over the

00:33:18.500 winter in halifax right yeah and it's not far from the navy base paul shannon park or whatever

00:33:24.020 yeah i know i saw that if there's a huge economic benefit to the halifax dartmouth area and nova

00:33:31.180 scotia and all the different jobs to go with it and all the ancillary benefits from those jobs 0.98

00:33:37.300 and everything else to help the province it's i mean yeah it's a win-win and a place like nova

00:33:43.260 scotia a place like halifax they could really use that win yeah well there we did it we see

00:33:48.300 we tied the bow yeah see this is the cool part about this discussion and i hope they watch it

00:33:53.260 because quite frankly we tied the bow on it we actually came up with a strategy this strategy

00:33:58.380 ties into a number of pillars a number of uh the ecosystem of canada makes sense but paul i go back

00:34:05.500 to carney's last 35 40 years of his life in business bank of canada bank of england um all

00:34:12.360 the different hedge funds he's worked for all the different huge companies as a head you didn't tell

00:34:17.640 everyone what you were doing you would tell them excuse me what they need to know yeah so this is

00:34:25.520 what you need to know then you go back into your you know 11th floor huge office and do your

00:34:30.520 business but as a prime minister as canadian the media and the public they do need to know

00:34:35.460 you do need to explain it to them so it's not like running brookfield or running the bank of england

00:34:40.140 you can't keep these secrets and just tell people what they need to know and i'll keep everything

00:34:45.260 else to myself just explain it to us canadians are pretty understanding that way if you explain

00:34:50.140 it that way you're like oh okay that's good yeah okay yeah it's a tough listen you know and

00:34:54.380 i think everyone gets it but the more i watch you know the the new political landscape that

00:35:01.300 these guys are under it's so tough would you want to do it i wouldn't want to do it no no because

00:35:06.720 Because not only do you have to be an expert in the economy of Canada, you also have to be an expert in all the different fields that people rely on.

00:35:18.640 And that's so hard.

00:35:19.920 International relations, the environment, you name it.

00:35:23.480 Look at what we're talking about.

00:35:24.260 We're talking energy and defense interconnecting.

00:35:26.700 Yeah.

00:35:27.100 Very complicated, but quite frankly, essential to the country's future.

00:35:31.240 It's in your hands.

00:35:32.460 And you have to depend on the people that are around you know enough to drive that ball.

00:35:38.020 And that's building that team.

00:35:39.720 That's the succession plan and the building of the team of your ministers to make that happen.

00:35:44.060 And I thought today, you know, he did a good job.

00:35:47.860 I think there's some missing pieces.

00:35:49.640 But I really do think, you know, more information from the minister I think we need right now and to tie the strategy together and make it make sense.

00:35:59.400 So we all, when we, when we hear it, we're like, okay, we're about to spend $60 billion.

00:36:04.440 It's a big amount of money for Canada right now.

00:36:06.520 We are making a big jump.

00:36:07.660 We haven't spent that much ever, ever.

00:36:10.220 So that's fine.

00:36:11.740 You know, give us some comfort that it's actually strategically going into something at a, at a reasonable level.

00:36:17.260 And there's going to be spinoff benefits.

00:36:19.900 We, we're going to do more shows, you know, on, on Equinor, on the Norway public energy company and, you know,

00:36:28.820 or gas company but when we do it you're gonna see uh you know pros and cons but you're gonna

00:36:35.460 see a government that created a strategy that created a significant amount of wealth for their

00:36:42.100 country and how they did it and i really think with nuclear and the way we have and the advances

00:36:48.340 we made we can take that and we can use it almost in a similar way to extend the wealth and security

00:36:55.140 of canada and we just and think about if we start tapping into that stream of money into the public

00:37:01.520 coffers what if we can now tell someone graduating high school that we will cover 50 of your cost

00:37:08.380 if you're going to be a teacher or a nurse or in health care 50 of your cost we'll cover

00:37:13.340 to make it easier for you to become a new teacher because the country's desperate for

00:37:17.900 nurses teachers doctors education like you name it all those professions yeah we're short staff

00:37:24.420 we'll cover half the cost because we're making all this money through all our different energy

00:37:28.240 projects exactly there's no canadian that would vote against that well and on top of it we need

00:37:32.840 we still still today the announcement and you know i know you say they're trying but we're still only

00:37:38.240 up 13 on recruitment for the military yeah i'm like okay let's get this higher like you know

00:37:43.300 we have all these people out here we have a lot of young people that are actually looking for

00:37:47.260 something to do there's got to be an incentive for that get them in the armed forces to get them

00:37:53.080 going to learn their trade in this morning just this morning all over the press you know we're now

00:37:59.000 uh seeing a massive decline in skilled trades absolutely it's all over the place we're talking

00:38:05.120 about it the u.s is talking about it's in every uh i think every western country is dealing with

00:38:09.760 it exactly it's terrible right now they're retiring they're dropping off since covid

00:38:13.500 they've disappeared even more have now disappeared with the slowdown on real estate

00:38:17.360 so when we come out of this are we going to have any skilled trades we don't have work for them

00:38:21.540 right now we can create work for them in the in the armed forces we can move them there they can

00:38:26.980 learn their trade when the economy picks up they can come out and they can actually open their own

00:38:31.480 companies and have some money in the bank they have some money in the bank buy homes and create

00:38:35.260 the economy but that's the full circle that's the ecosystem that that we need communication and

00:38:40.180 that's what if mcginty the defense minister and carney today said and by the way at the same time

00:38:44.780 we're putting infrastructure money into recruit training bases in western canada another one in

00:38:51.760 central canada another one so we're going to four or five of them yeah and triple or double the

00:38:56.660 amount of recruits that are matriculated through our system every month and that would put a

00:39:01.680 significant increase the amount of people being trained but that's to me that's not the prime

00:39:05.960 minister the prime minister is the guy who gets steps up and he says here's the 3 000 foot strategy

00:39:10.680 view right and that's mcginty then doing that comes in and he says okay here's you know we're

00:39:15.080 building this many barracks we're building hiring this many people we have this many companies we're

00:39:20.200 building this much here's the line items that tie to that and here's the milestone and here's where

00:39:25.480 we're going and you know if you look at again i hate to use uh norway as an example but they're

00:39:30.440 a great example but they do that right when you look at their projects they publicly tell the

00:39:35.800 people what the milestones are what the timeline is where they're going what they're investing in

00:39:41.000 and so much so that they were confident they were so confident that over the years they

00:39:46.360 really took the private public approach to that company so now it's mostly owned by the government

00:39:52.540 but it is you can invest in that that company to make money for your own retirement fund your own

00:39:57.460 wealth and and that they wanted everyone to participate and the flip side here in canada

00:40:01.960 now in the last three weeks, this is my one criticism for Carney and McGinty and the liberal

00:40:06.060 government right now. We're finding out about Canadian military involvement around the world

00:40:11.400 through different media outlets. There was La Presse in Montreal. There was a story about

00:40:17.160 Canadians and Cadena Air Force Base in Okinawa doing some patrol work in North Korea that was

00:40:23.300 released through Japanese and South Korean newspapers, not by. So I think a lot of kids

00:40:28.820 like well wait a sec shouldn't the canadian government let us know what's happening if we

00:40:33.460 have men and women overseas doing different work yeah why is it a secret why do we find out through

00:40:38.980 other people and so like going back to if you explain things people go oh okay great that's

00:40:44.300 awesome yeah it makes sense strategically it makes sense right but there's probably a good reason why

00:40:48.500 they're there just tell us and tie it into something and you can't say it's security reasons

00:40:53.440 if Japanese and South Korean newspapers

00:40:55.360 are reporting on it.

00:40:57.040 So it's obviously a news story.

00:40:59.700 So we're allowed to talk about it.

00:41:01.860 They're there.

00:41:02.740 It's hard to hide the people.

00:41:03.600 It's hard to hide it, right?

00:41:06.000 But yeah, so at the end of the day,

00:41:08.180 just some simple explanations.

00:41:10.000 I don't need all the minutiae.

00:41:11.500 Just tell us the Coles Notes,

00:41:13.180 what's going on,

00:41:14.380 and get about it and get on with it.

00:41:15.960 And then everyone would be happy.

00:41:18.500 Jim, there is a strategy here.

00:41:20.600 I hope they watch the show

00:41:21.660 because I think there is a strategy here.

00:41:23.440 i really do believe yeah we're getting ready for this show i think again there's some shows we do

00:41:28.240 where i'm like you know we're just kind of reporting and talking about yeah yeah this one

00:41:32.160 as i finished the show i said to myself you know if they're not on it right now they need to really

00:41:36.800 think this through now they have picked up on a few of our ideas over the last few months and i

00:41:40.880 hope they pick up on this one i noticed that yeah thanks

00:41:43.360 patriotic means looking up for each other and fixing things together true patriotism is being

00:41:57.640 in the country you love surrounded by people you love and great weather being a patriot is being a

00:42:02.520 part of your community and caring for it it doesn't matter who you are or where you're from

00:42:06.560 patriotism is the one thing we all share it's okay to be critical of government and still be

00:42:12.940 a patriot it's gratitude to your country of course i'm a patriot i'm canadian it's my home

00:42:18.540 Well, actually, true patriot love is the mission.

True Patriot Love - March 28, 2026

Should Canada Go Nuclear？! Jim Lang & Paul Micucci Debate Canada’s Defence Future

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