True Patriot Love - So Much Has Happened So Fast： Lutnick vs Carney

00:00:00.000 But I think to be constantly in the face of America,

00:00:03.480 like, first of all, let's get a new deal in place. 0.92

00:00:06.780 Let's see what America wants in Kuzma.

00:00:08.940 Let's see if they'll add the sea back into this deal.

00:00:11.740 And if Canada is part of that deal,

00:00:14.020 let's have a look at it.

00:00:14.840 At that moment, why don't we have a discussion

00:00:17.920 about what to do?

00:00:19.280 Instead of getting out there

00:00:20.460 and trying to create other arrangements

00:00:22.220 and other parts of the world,

00:00:23.940 why don't we just wait and get a deal done with the US

00:00:27.280 like the rest of the world is intending to do?

00:00:30.000 on april 21st prime minister mark carney unveiled a very diverse experience and capable advisory

00:00:40.320 council to help canada in their upcoming negotiations with the united states of mexico

00:00:44.980 in the infamous kuzma deal and looming over the head of carney and all this amazing advisory

00:00:50.380 council is the wackadoodle nut job that's howard lutnik to talk more about it is always thrilled 0.73

00:00:55.820 to be joined by the amazing mike wickson mike a sweet bastard how are you you know jim i wondered 0.53

00:01:00.720 for a moment how you felt about howard lutnick now i know uh good thanks so much for having me

00:01:07.660 on this is uh well you know what this is a really important time uh this i don't know if you've

00:01:14.140 noticed kuzma they've dropped the it's now uzma i believe they've completely dropped canada as a

00:01:21.200 reference point. And yeah, you're right. Howard Lutnick had a lot to say recently about Canada.

00:01:31.140 He certainly had this to say at Davos. Time is on our side because the pressures on the U.S. are

00:01:36.600 only going to increase over time. Basically, you guys are in political trouble. The longer they

00:01:40.420 wait, the better a deal you're going to have to do. Good for them. That is like the worst strategy

00:01:45.020 i've ever heard they suck they look we are a 30 trillion dollar economy right we are the consumer 0.98

00:01:52.260 of the world okay carney has a problem with us he gets on a plane and he goes to china does he think 0.98

00:02:00.220 china's the chinese economy is going to buy his stuff china is entirely an export-driven economy

00:02:07.000 right so what do you do he came back and said oh we'll take their electric cars i mean is this nuts

00:02:14.540 Okay, well, that's, you know, pretty specific.

00:02:17.260 There's no gray area, Mike.

00:02:19.120 No.

00:02:20.300 Well, you know, the truth is, I don't know.

00:02:24.120 I know that you don't really like Howard Lettnick.

00:02:26.240 You probably don't have a huge amount of respect for him.

00:02:30.800 Maybe explain that.

00:02:31.840 Okay, I would have a little more respect for him if he went about his griefs

00:02:37.000 and his grievances and his issues in a more professional manner. 0.99

00:02:40.980 if he did it as a as an adult yeah he sounds like a kid in grade eight saying dude you suck 0.97

00:02:47.920 move your bicycle and this is supposed to be someone of one of the most important positions 0.79

00:02:54.220 in donald trump's cabinet a billionaire right and then he's talking like that about an extremely

00:03:01.220 serious subject with the economy in the world teetering act like an adult in the room okay i

00:03:06.760 understand okay so the personality type much like trump brash uh very sort of new york business

00:03:14.400 yeah street business money first yeah uh you know the truth is he does he does have some some points

00:03:22.100 and we'll talk about kuzma in a minute but one of the things that i want to kind of air just as we

00:03:27.080 get into this topic is canada's position right like he's not wrong we're out there trying to 0.98

00:03:35.260 replace the u.s oh well wait a sec now the usa is consistently kicking canada in the balls 0.98

00:03:42.180 over and over again and what are we supposed to do like that internet meme where you put your 0.98

00:03:46.380 hands in your hip like the martial artist you keep getting kicked and take it no carny in the

00:03:51.940 canadian business canadian government canadian population are saying f you they're fighting back

00:03:57.720 they're not traveling they're looking for alternate markets if you're going to treat us like this

00:04:02.140 like you know canada we're no better friend but we're no worse enemy you know what uh howard

00:04:08.340 lutnik would uh sort of disagree with you have a look at this right that canada has never expressed

00:04:14.120 to the world that they have the best deal the second best deal in the world the best deal in

00:04:19.200 the world is mexico because remember they have usmca which means 85 percent of the canadian

00:04:24.740 economy comes into the united states for zero and there he is complaining that he's going to go to

00:04:30.500 china and and improve it what's he going to do china's delighted to sell to him but do you think

00:04:36.900 china's going to open their economy to accept exports from canada this is the silliest thing 0.85

00:04:41.780 i've ever seen they have the second best deal because mexico's got a little better deal they 1.00

00:04:45.540 have 25 on the extra 15 whereas canada's got 35 on the extra 15 but give me a break they have the

00:04:52.660 second best deal in the world and all i got to do is listen to this guy whine and complain mr

00:04:57.380 secretary in fairness so there you go you know outside of mexico canada maintains in in uh his

00:05:05.840 mind and in the mind of the president yeah a very good deal and that kuzma does not seem to add up

00:05:13.000 to a good deal for in in the mind of uh donald trump all i know is mark carney has a right to

00:05:21.060 say these things about the united states about kuzma and about the way the world's going like

00:05:27.640 the problem is when you're dealing with the trump administration like we're taping this midday on

00:05:34.860 the 21st right and we're drunk and baked out of our mind yeah by four o'clock this afternoon

00:05:40.760 whatever trump says could could be completely different than what he said in the morning

00:05:44.420 and by friday of this week it could be something completely different as well

00:05:48.620 so you're telling countries yeah and trillion dollar businesses and hedge funds and investment

00:05:54.720 funds you're asking for a little professional decorum hey we're doing a deal well this is the

00:06:00.600 rate this is the tax this is the tariff and he's changing it on a whim day by day yeah and meanwhile

00:06:06.260 so you the feeling is we're being dismissed all right whatever whatever yeah yeah we're gonna

00:06:10.920 give you this deal actually you're gonna take that deal listen to me you don't want to hear

00:06:15.100 from you we don't need to hear from you on this just take the deal which is an interesting

00:06:19.880 position to be in as a canadian because it doesn't feel great but the realities are kind of probably

00:06:27.260 more in line with what he's talking about what's kuzma cover really for us it covers auto steel and

00:06:31.640 lumber right correct so okay let's let's examine those what are we going to do his point is kind

00:06:38.540 of right what are we going to do build chinese cars here in canada well i don't understand how

00:06:43.460 that makes any sense they built volkswagens in mexico what does he so he's saying that

00:06:49.320 china and their ability to create hybrid vehicles electric vehicles if you look at the metrics and

00:06:57.640 look at the research china's doing you can have an issue with china the government and what they

00:07:02.600 do all you want that's two separate arguments their research and their expertise and electric

00:07:08.380 vehicles and lithium ion batteries and how they're executing it yeah is growing exponentially year

00:07:15.380 by year they could have the most wonderful pot of gold cars on earth yeah but his point is correct

00:07:22.020 china is never going to take exports from canada they're only ever going to sell to canada

00:07:28.640 that is where this kind of arrangement breaks down i'm not so sure about that what would they

00:07:33.960 buy from us liquid natural gas oil but but for that we would bring in a completely foreign entity

00:07:45.520 into canada to create an auto sector seems a little look my opinion on this one is maybe

00:07:52.200 unfounded but let them have the cars we already buy cars from america at this point right right

00:07:59.940 we can't catch up in the car industry so locking or you know i guess legoing a brick on that is a 0.91

00:08:08.560 foreign entity's auto industry into our country sounds like a huge expense that's going to take

00:08:15.160 a long time to pay off when really what we could do is just pay the tariff and move on all i know

00:08:20.900 is best-selling cars in canada the toyota corolla and the honda civic and they're both built in

00:08:26.680 ontario at the moment right if that became unavailable to us for whatever reason it didn't

00:08:33.800 make sense the operation moves to the u.s don't kid yourself toyota or honda would definitely

00:08:38.220 move to the u.s as well so you know citing them staying open in canada helping our economy in any

00:08:45.560 way is just as fragile as bringing in a new entity and then the other thing is steel we can't compete

00:08:52.860 on steel with the us we've never been able to pay the tariff let's get things moving how about this

00:08:59.420 how about that we put in a couple of uh subsidies in the areas where tariffs really would affect us

00:09:06.780 we do it in dairy so good example softwood lumber would be another place to put it steel would be a

00:09:12.620 good place to do it the auto industry okay put this put the subsidies where the tariffs are

00:09:18.860 are hurting the most and stop trying to build new infrastructure and new relationships.

00:09:24.300 In that sense, I think Lutnik's right.

00:09:26.740 Everybody else in the world has adjusted.

00:09:28.680 Canada's out there with the Canadian flag saying, we're not going to tolerate this.

00:09:32.860 Well, well, now, Carney's adjusted a little bit.

00:09:36.460 He's got some big infrastructure projects that will require a whole lot of Canadian

00:09:40.680 steel and Canadian lumber and Canadian natural resources and create Canadian jobs.

00:09:47.100 And now that he has the majority, I mean, I do believe him when he says,

00:09:51.180 you're going to hear less of me because we're getting to work.

00:09:55.020 And when the Canadian government are buying tanks and planes and ships,

00:10:00.080 like Irving Shipyard are cranking out ships, C-SPAN in Vancouver,

00:10:04.140 Davies Shipyard in Quebec City.

00:10:06.200 We have all these automobile.

00:10:08.840 There's a military vehicle plant that makes number of personnel carriers

00:10:12.240 in London, Ontario.

00:10:13.980 So there's different.

00:10:14.580 now actually we actually have a factory in canada making ammunition which we didn't have before i

00:10:20.180 think all of this is great and i and i and i applaud uh carney for any move that he makes

00:10:25.300 that brings these big national projects home but i think to be constantly in the face of america

00:10:31.780 like first of all let's get a new deal in place let's see what america wants in kuzma let's see

00:10:37.620 if they'll add the sea back into this deal and if canada is part of that deal let's have a look at

00:10:43.060 at it at that moment why don't we have a discussion about what to do instead of getting out there and

00:10:49.060 trying to create other arrangements and other parts of the world why don't we just wait and

00:10:53.960 get a deal done with the u.s like the rest of the world is intending to do here's here's my devil's

00:10:59.900 advocate mike mark carney's playing texas hold'em poker okay so he had his opening hand and lutnick

00:11:07.200 instead of being a smart poker player in the united states they revealed where they have in

00:11:13.060 their hand and where they're going and they're betting ideas so carney already knows how they're

00:11:18.160 going to bet way too early in the hand by doing his video by talking the way he's talking by saying

00:11:23.980 look we're going to go into these kuzma negotiations but we're not going to roll over like some puppy

00:11:28.560 and do whatever you say okay but you know what let's see the deal first let's not go let's not

00:11:33.580 go in saying we're we're anti-us we're not taking this we don't like the way that you talk to us

00:11:40.260 and that's what i think is going on with this lutnik thing yeah people have an opinion about

00:11:44.560 him but the things that he's saying are brash harsh and real yeah sure you know what else is

00:11:50.120 on may 6th he's got to testify in congress about epstein island okay he may not even be there for

00:11:55.960 negotiations after that okay listen i'm i am no proponent of of this guy this guy on any level

00:12:04.440 all right let's talk like him hey thoughts and prayers but i do think in this regard we can't

00:12:11.880 ignore what he's saying because what he's he's reflecting an opinion i want to read something

00:12:15.640 to you if i may this is this is a comment that came in mike i beg you read it to me if you

00:12:19.320 wouldn't mind thank you you'd be i listen if a pro would like to read it oh no this is a comment

00:12:23.720 that showed up on our site with regard to another episode

00:12:25.840 of something you and I did where we had one of these

00:12:27.920 kind of tenuous discussions, which

00:12:29.800 I love doing, by the way.

00:12:31.840 Thank you, Global

00:12:33.260 Traveler.

00:12:36.060 I got it. I like that. Okay, so

00:12:37.720 Global Traveler says this. Most of

00:12:39.800 us outside of Canada have viewed Canadians

00:12:41.700 as fake nice, passive

00:12:43.760 aggressive with unearned moral and intellectual

00:12:45.980 superiority complexes.

00:12:48.480 Always snide, sideways

00:12:49.720 insults, never speaking directly.

00:12:51.820 like mean girls and the empathy is completely fake as well fringe groups that want to force

00:12:57.500 their ideology on others and then the mass are afraid to confront so they use the excuse that

00:13:03.760 they are empathetic this is not an uncommon tone that we get from our american friends which is

00:13:11.160 fake news because we are very nice and we're very empathetic but we're not going to be pushed around

00:13:16.180 and bullied jim we are a tiny country out there saying we're not going to be bullied shut up we

00:13:23.060 are going to be bullied we need to create relationships that understand that we can't be

00:13:30.020 a self-righteous top of the mountain looking down society anymore mark we don't have enough power

00:13:37.780 in this world enough cashier frankly we don't do enough for this world as a nation to have that

00:13:44.740 attitude oh i suppose justin bieber drake and maple syrup are nothing to you now right

00:13:49.460 you've turned me around on this my bad in september i did get carried away there yeah

00:13:53.300 there's going to be a summit in canada i think it's i don't know if it's toronto or ottawa but

00:13:58.580 mark carney is holding and hosting a summit in september with the idea to raise one trillion

00:14:03.940 dollars of investment in canada now this is from the seeds of all the trips that he took and spent

00:14:09.460 half a million dollars and can't force one eating lobster and steak and whatnot but how what did you

00:14:14.980 order i still don't understand i don't understand have a crock masseur and a glass of milk you're

00:14:19.460 the prime minister real sandwiches could a man eat you know geez yeah so if you're reading your

00:14:23.700 book stop eating i think he is putting a full court press saying look you can do what you want

00:14:30.340 luck nick and trump and america because you guys are offending every country in the world and right

00:14:36.420 now no one wants to do business with them because of their actions it's not helping what's going on

00:14:41.060 in iran and the persian gulf and the strait of hormuz so carney and his i can't admit this is

00:14:48.180 such a diverse group of people yeah to elisa ray john charay flavio volpe every party every young

00:14:56.340 old french english it's fantastic it's so good on him for that so now he's going to be drawing in

00:15:02.100 on all their expertise oh no i have to have to be honest about this list what it just sounds like a

00:15:07.940 huge room of argument it sounds like none of these people will get along with each other it sounds

00:15:13.220 like a lot of them are expired milk i'll be honest with you the list was not impressive no no no i

00:15:17.700 gotta say flavio volpe i follow him on social media he's become an expert on the canada us

00:15:23.060 auto pack okay and he's he's on point the guy knows what he's talking about yeah so he like

00:15:28.180 So he'll have that expertise.

00:15:30.260 Jean Charest will have maybe this.

00:15:32.420 This person will have that, and they're going to all bring it together.

00:15:35.260 I am curious to see the appetite for hedge funds and companies

00:15:40.520 and countries around the world investing into Canada.

00:15:43.360 This is the whole reason Carney is polling at 68%.

00:15:46.760 It's the whole reason Carney has a majority.

00:15:49.080 Oh, boy.

00:15:49.840 Look it.

00:15:51.120 They've entrusted him to pull off these business deals

00:15:54.580 that he's done for the last 30 years.

00:15:56.220 This is the ultimate business play Gordon Gekko deal for him.

00:16:00.620 The list of countries that have sold off their resources to other nations

00:16:05.580 to enhance their problems, to solve their problems financially,

00:16:13.960 you know, Venezuela, Zambia, Greece.

00:16:19.240 the problem is

00:16:21.840 if we create a problem

00:16:24.580 and we can't get out of it

00:16:26.380 with our current relationships

00:16:27.500 and we start selling off our national resources

00:16:29.820 I don't want to be extreme on this 0.90

00:16:31.840 but it puts us in position to become a slave nation 0.99

00:16:34.400 a nation that owns nothing of its own

00:16:37.100 that the people that live there 1.00

00:16:38.820 only work

00:16:39.700 for the benefit of other nations

00:16:42.980 well I don't think building

00:16:44.420 a liquid natural gas pipeline

00:16:46.980 in port in Trilter, Manitoba

00:16:48.600 is selling out for resources that's selling our resources to a willing buyer they're talking

00:16:54.560 about building and robert fife had it in the globe of mail today a southern alberta pipeline to the

00:17:00.320 vancouver ports so there'll be a third pipeline is for oil to go to the pacific rim that's selling

00:17:05.900 resources that's fine selling we should have had those before i would agree with you selling those

00:17:10.280 resources selling the product is one thing selling the resource uh extractor selling mining right

00:17:17.720 selling oil rights selling all of that off is the potential investment that we're talking about

00:17:24.140 carney inviting the world to take part in and if we do that as a reaction to the u.s i think we're

00:17:29.900 making a mistake no i will agree with you that it's not it's you can't create the investment

00:17:35.360 for selling it you're creating it like look it's in your best interest you'll make a returning

00:17:40.400 your investment you'll be and he's going to play the anti-trump anti-usa card to the hilt

00:17:45.840 look don't do your business there put your money here go to the ring of fire you know precious

00:17:52.480 minerals and precious metals in northern ontario build up an actual gas pipe right churchill he's

00:17:58.640 inviting other countries to come here businesses from other countries to come to canada to do that

00:18:03.060 when we do that jim yes when we cut red tape out of the way for other nations to build stuff that

00:18:08.780 we could have cut the red tape for us to do ourselves we are putting ourselves in line to

00:18:12.880 become a slave nation i don't buy that committee just so you know that sounds like a very corporate

00:18:18.940 board of directors do you know that you know the coffee and donut parties they're going to have

00:18:24.420 pizza parties it's going to be a lot of fun i i do see a lot of poutine being ordered uh uber eats

00:18:30.380 to those conferences mini golf i'm worried jim that if we don't build subsidies against the

00:18:37.380 tariffs on the things we need to pay in the u.s we'll never have a seat at the negotiating table

00:18:42.620 i think that we need to step off our high horse just for a minute and understand that yes americans

00:18:48.780 don't speak the same way we do it's not to me it's not a high horse it's it's having a multifaceted

00:18:56.640 varied economy yeah it's having we do we subsidize the dairy industry quite a bit so let's add a

00:19:03.840 little subsidy as you say to the steel and softwood lumber let's invite it look up until now

00:19:09.340 we haven't really said hey uh hedge fund abc in whatever country have you thought about investing

00:19:15.920 some of your money here and this is trying to convince other countries and other hedge funds

00:19:21.300 and other investment houses to not throw all your money in the united states to steer some of that

00:19:26.160 money into the canadian economy maybe laugh when lutnik says oh who are we dealing with here 0.89

00:19:31.820 christian freelance she's the worst she's not even in the government anymore maybe no this is 0.97

00:19:36.780 at some point in the past but it just made me laugh the way he referred to her as she's the

00:19:41.380 worst so you know and what do you think people think about him what do you think people around

00:19:46.680 the world think about the people he works with and his boss they're not exactly in held in high

00:19:51.940 esteem right now mike i do agree with you on that and i don't like the way he talks and i don't like

00:19:56.920 the attitude that comes across but the truth is that's the attitude of that nation that's the

00:20:02.060 read they have on us that's their position at the moment we need to take that seriously because the

00:20:07.900 truth is if we just keep reacting like we're better than everybody else or no and our self right

00:20:13.800 jim our self-righteousness gets in the way or we would be drilling for oil we would be creating

00:20:20.460 uh processing plants for our own okay no no i i don't view it as that we're better than anyone

00:20:26.740 else and that that attitude as far as what happened in the last 10 years under justin

00:20:31.600 trudeau mark carney is every month distancing himself more and more he is trying to untie that

00:20:38.260 knot and it's and it's it's obvious they just had a report that the numbers of recruiting are beyond

00:20:44.220 even what they thought they would be in the canadian armed forces is that right yes oh

00:20:49.020 fantastic so they're exceeding their recruitment numbers for young people joining the military

00:20:53.400 They are trying to cut the cord, as it were, from, you know, the shackles of the Trudeau administration, Stephen Gilboa and all those Wilkinson and everyone that said, you can't do this.

00:21:05.240 You can't do that.

00:21:06.480 Everyone's got to drive electric cars and America's bad.

00:21:09.420 And then he took a private plane to Coachella with Katy Perry.

00:21:11.740 so mark carney is busy trying to distance himself and change the course of the country to something

00:21:18.820 that is he says the big tent that is actually more conservative than the old trudeau group

00:21:24.760 ever thought possible it's interesting at the liberal convention as i mentioned to you there

00:21:28.880 was a lot of backlash from people just that we talked to about how he's not very liberal at all

00:21:33.420 and there are some murmurs in the caucus that they share that but the party whip in the you know the

00:21:40.100 carny's muscle within the government are like keeping them down because they want to get deals

00:21:45.080 done but you're right there are a lot of people that always said this is not the liberals i voted

00:21:49.300 for i just don't want us positioning ourselves as uh intellectually superior uh well i don't

00:21:58.400 want to have an intellectual superiority complex in the view of americans anymore i think that's

00:22:04.400 a bad that's a bad negotiating point i i certainly as a canadian i never think of us as intellectually

00:22:10.900 superior but when let nick acts like he does and speaks like he does we have a right to fight back

00:22:17.440 i think the majority of americans american people american businesses are people of honor and

00:22:23.580 intelligence and you can do a deal with i think that's fine honor and intelligence don't get the

00:22:28.720 deal done honor intelligence integrity all of these things that canadians wish to uh be be part

00:22:36.600 of our our national virtue do not matter to getting a deal done no one cares no nation cares

00:22:44.620 certainly trump doesn't care lutnik doesn't care and kuzma is a dream if we think that it's going

00:22:52.540 to be done based on virtue or self-righteousness i'm telling you we need to be ready to negotiate

00:22:57.740 and do a deal sure so i think some of the people on this panel that you shot down and i think i

00:23:04.920 did i think there's some dirty muscle in there and we're not even talking about the

00:23:10.900 hand-picked negotiator for kuzma the woman who's known as an absolute pitbull yeah she's been very 0.96

00:23:17.040 quiet lately as a matter of fact you haven't heard her in the news mike since she was appointed and 0.51

00:23:22.160 that's for a reason yeah because she's probably going to say guys we have to do a no no no no no

00:23:27.320 no no no no she is get gathering her information gathering her facts and keeping her poker cards 0.97

00:23:34.880 close to her chest to drop the aces on the table when they actually get to negotiating so she knows

00:23:41.140 the mindset and attitude Olympic and the Americans already because they've announced it because if

00:23:47.520 if you present to me Canada has this to offer that to offer this to offer that to offer this

00:23:55.040 this this this and i'm sitting at the table as an american with you my response is going to be

00:24:01.200 what yeah no i don't care here's the deal that we're going to do right here and that's the deal

00:24:06.960 that's going to get done so if we go to that table thinking anything else is valuable except

00:24:13.120 our position and negotiating the lowest tax rate mike we're making a mistake carney and his people

00:24:21.120 have are quietly have put together deals where you had mentioned china with countries around the

00:24:27.500 world so he's got deals that other countries is sort of a like fire insurance so they know there's

00:24:34.340 a few things at play here they don't expect any reasonable negotiation with lutnik and americans

00:24:39.280 that's not happening carney knows that he's been in the boardroom not to know that he's dealing 0.99

00:24:43.920 with a dick so he's got other deals because he also knows dick ceos like that don't last and 0.99

00:24:50.340 you'll be dealing with someone a lot more reasonable you can do a deal with here's my 0.99

00:24:53.380 problem with this fire insurance it has the ability to start a fire i do worry about that

00:24:59.300 a little bit you know with with the u.s it obviously is is uh a sticking point uh with them

00:25:05.860 here's the other thing we're doing the deal now by all accounts and all metrics and all experts

00:25:13.140 the trump administration are about to get their ass handed to them in november at the midterms 0.93

00:25:18.740 and at that point if it goes like it's trending they are a lame duck administration who can't do 0.95

00:25:25.540 anything yeah and then they don't have no power to do anything this is this may actually delay

00:25:31.060 this negotiation entirely that is one of the possibilities i don't know if the the u.s

00:25:36.260 sidesteps it if they become a lame uh lame duck uh administration but if if they can they likely

00:25:43.300 will because they like to come in from a strong point um but with just a couple more years so by

00:25:49.700 january of 2029 which is not that far off then you're dealing with uh i know a bigger mess come

00:25:56.980 on the paul micucci administration who may have a completely different attitude to negotiating and

00:26:03.280 doing business in canada do you think we can make this happen in time yeah you never know he looks

00:26:07.320 good in a suit he looks great he doesn't have to speak french you know what honestly i think that

00:26:12.340 we've got our next prime minister. All right, Jim, thanks for talking to me and having a little

00:26:16.820 bit of a row over this. And because this is a story on the move, it actually continues. And

00:26:24.020 so we started recording this yesterday. Today, there have been developments to talk more about

00:26:29.760 that. Paul Micucci, thanks for joining me on this. Hey, Mike. Wow, this is a fast one. And

00:26:33.860 you know, it's interesting. By the hour, people are chiming in. In reaction to what Canada is

00:26:40.280 doing the u.s is moving a ball then canada's moving a ball it's just going back and forth

00:26:46.020 after we uh finished the show yesterday polyev got caught on the stairs a little out of breath

00:26:51.660 considering he and joe rogan work out together hey aerobics oh that you know weight training

00:26:57.080 is great but do a little aerobics yeah he uh he might want to join me at pilates uh here's uh

00:27:02.400 polyev's reaction what do you think what do you think about being on this council it's great at

00:27:08.180 the end of the day, though, what we need is action. Mark Carney was elected on the singular promise

00:27:13.800 that he would negotiate a win with the Americans. Since that time, American tariffs have doubled

00:27:21.460 and broadened on Canadian goods. Carney's given us the worst economy in the G7, the only shrinking

00:27:28.140 economy in the G7. We're hemorrhaging jobs. Just 10 days ago, the Americans hit us with

00:27:33.920 much bigger tariffs on products that include Canadian steel.

00:27:40.060 And what has Mark Carney done, really, in a year on this?

00:27:44.980 He hasn't held negotiations in five months.

00:27:47.920 The Mexicans are going to be at the table formally with the Americans any day.

00:27:51.540 The only talks that Mark Carney is doing are YouTube videos 0.97

00:27:55.040 where he's comparing himself to Sir Isaac Brock

00:27:58.040 and holding up little figurines in his office.

00:28:00.220 so he told all of you the other day that with his new majority he was going to stop showboating

00:28:05.080 and then a few days later he put out a showboating youtube video right the the 2.6 million canadians

00:28:11.820 whose jobs depend on getting rid of these terrible american tariffs have had about enough of mark

00:28:18.560 carney making false promises and delivering the worst economy in the g7 a measured reaction well

00:28:26.760 he wants a plan so which i'd like to tell you truth all kidding aside i really liked what he

00:28:31.860 said i thought this was probably one of the best moments that pierre paulia has had in the last

00:28:36.680 couple months he comes up the stairs says listen what has he done the prime minister and the

00:28:42.560 liberals and basically where's the plan where's the direction are we just gonna not negotiate

00:28:47.760 which is an interesting so i'm not gonna wreck the rest of the show so what i want to do is i

00:28:53.280 want to proceed but i'm going to come back to this because i think that he has he knows what's

00:28:59.680 coming next and what happened today because he already caught wind of it so he came up the stairs

00:29:05.560 he he had this response because i think he knows what was coming today so and and so you know

00:29:12.760 moving forward you know they do poly of coming up the stairs and then right away the liberals

00:29:19.880 announce this committee yeah so almost on the heels of polyev uh the committee is announced

00:29:26.760 right and and this committee makes up which i thought was interesting it made up some uh older

00:29:32.520 former conservatives yeah like aaron o'toole yeah right no love lost there right john charay's on

00:29:38.920 the list john charay yep uh yeah premier um and you know some uh industry leaders so daryl white

00:29:47.240 which is a little bit of an odd one the CEO of BMO and then quite frankly Flavio Volpe

00:29:53.600 auto manufacturers group the president of of that understanding why they would why Volpe would be

00:30:00.680 there I don't know if that's going to be truthfully helpful but at least he'll have the expertise to

00:30:06.240 understand the issue right do you think now I take a look at this list and I think that it's

00:30:11.200 interesting that somebody sat down and said okay we need big names big thinkers from every sector

00:30:19.580 out there and you see uh finance and investment uh broad business interest at large uh you know

00:30:26.540 you've got banks involved and this is what i thought was very interesting yes having the

00:30:32.120 aluminum association the steel associations auto manufacturing in there that all makes sense even

00:30:37.740 even to some degree having a Jean Charest in there to represent the the the French aspect of

00:30:42.980 things but what occurred to me was that there are there's a bank an independent chartered bank on

00:30:48.400 this list that makes me wonder okay should that not be the Bank of Canada uh I mean I see I see

00:30:57.580 CN Rail on here another federal uh representation but I I just thought it was very interesting and

00:31:04.220 And I'm curious as to how BMO was the bank that played into this.

00:31:09.560 Yeah.

00:31:09.860 Well, and like tech resources is on this list.

00:31:12.660 Yeah.

00:31:13.040 Right.

00:31:13.500 And then, you know, you have the Toronto Film Festival.

00:31:17.580 That was an interesting one.

00:31:19.620 Former high commissioner to the UK, Ralph Goodell, was an interesting one to me.

00:31:23.640 Exactly.

00:31:24.080 You know, that's almost, we sit around theorizing about how Mark Carney just,

00:31:29.820 he operates like Winston Churchill from his bed in England in London someplace.

00:31:34.220 uh with his british friends and you know there you go that kind of plays into our

00:31:38.380 our uh fantasies but having said that what is your overall impression of this list and what

00:31:45.460 do you think it represents and do you think that the u.s was like bring us everybody on a bus and

00:31:50.880 talk to us or do you think this is no i think it's committee so you know uh as soon as criticism so

00:31:57.680 it's interesting uh sunday night the video comes out the nine minute video of mark carney

00:32:02.560 not well received no so i'm thinking the pr group of of the liberals of mark and the the prime

00:32:09.580 minister uh are sitting around they say well that didn't go well you know we thought it was a good

00:32:14.320 idea we put it out you know i'll i'll negotiate i'll tell you you know uh forward guidance what

00:32:19.820 i'm doing yeah didn't go very well so right away they scamper and they get this committee they had

00:32:24.840 this committee forming they quickly get it together they see pierre moving up the stairs

00:32:29.720 they're like boom they put it out you know this should quiet people down because at least there's

00:32:34.780 people from every party that we're paying or you know reimbursing to sit on this committee

00:32:40.360 so that should quiet everyone down regardless of whether there's a plan or not and i think

00:32:46.220 that was the approach you know very uh interesting approach but right away after that so that gets we

00:32:52.440 just get through that and it doesn't stop there because then that makes the u.s move so he they

00:32:59.320 thought i think they really thought that it would just go quiet i think this was uh probably

00:33:04.080 something they had anticipated uh when they did the sunday video of the prime minister okay that

00:33:10.780 could go one way or the other we better have the committee ready committee gets ready the

00:33:15.060 announcement of the committee forms quickly when the reception doesn't go well because people are

00:33:20.320 saying you know he doesn't want to negotiate with them what's going to happen you know why is he not

00:33:24.580 negotiating why does he not have a plan so pure polio's ideas are starting to ruminate and

00:33:29.860 everyone's thinking oh he's he's not going to negotiate yeah yeah well right away then the

00:33:35.340 committee and then all of a sudden you see the u.s start to spiral around right so the americans

00:33:40.720 come to the table uh it's very interesting the uh the first clip we're going to show here

00:33:45.420 is back to Lutnick as he gets really quite a bottle washing from the New Hampshire Senator

00:33:55.820 Jean Shaheen, as I've started to refer to her, Jean, Jean, the dancing machine. But she really

00:34:02.580 does hold his feet to the fire over the damage that it's done to her state. We can have a look

00:34:07.220 at that. Secretary Lutnick, last week, you said about Canada's economic strategy, and I quote,

00:34:13.600 they suck. I believe your spokesperson then said this was about Canada's economy leeching off of 0.90

00:34:21.820 the U.S. How does insulting our closest ally and neighbor help the businesses in my state of New

00:34:28.860 Hampshire and states all across this country who are hurting because of the loss of Canadian

00:34:34.740 business and tourism Canada's economy leans on the 30 the incredible 30

00:34:45.540 trillion dollar economy of America there's no doubt about that mr.

00:34:49.260 secretary but insulting our closest ally and neighbor who provides a lot of

00:34:55.320 business we have a lot of businesses in New Hampshire small businesses who work

00:34:59.700 on both sides of the border we have all those Canadian visitors who are not

00:35:03.720 coming because of your comments and comments by the administration uh well there you go i i mean

00:35:10.400 lutnik really not a strong strong response he has he's towing a company line a trump company line i

00:35:17.420 think there but it really does kind of put a fine point on that this is the first of a few responses

00:35:24.680 but a fine point on the tourism aspect of stuff yeah and what it's done to new hampshire yeah well

00:35:30.640 sure new hampshire of course she doesn't like it a high tourism area for canadians gone away you

00:35:36.960 know it's decreased by 30 but you know his response is yeah but you know for the betterment of the

00:35:43.840 country we need to deal with gary it's a very interesting response right so right after that

00:35:52.720 as he's in this uh senate ways and house uh ways and means committee and he comes out and says you

00:36:00.960 know what we there's bigger issues there are bigger pillars inside of what's going on in kuzma or

00:36:08.480 whatever we're going to call it at the end jameson greer comes out and he starts talking about the

00:36:14.560 fact that it's not going well so he comes out and he basically says canada's on a different

00:36:20.800 trajectory they're working on globalization by traveling around the world and trying to do deals

00:36:27.280 globally they're going in a totally different direction than canada so they're doubling down

00:36:32.720 so dare being canada is doubling down on globalization when we're trying to correct

00:36:37.840 the that he means the united states is trying to correct uh for problems of globalization right

00:36:43.840 so he's basically saying we are contributors to to their problem yes well they say so those are

00:36:51.960 two models that don't fit together very well that's true one one is definitely uh converse

00:36:59.660 to the other so think about it you know throughout this show we started off with

00:37:03.740 lutnik and davos and and you know lutnik talking uh recently and basically saying that you know

00:37:10.600 we do get along, but unfortunately, you know, the two parties don't feel like they're being

00:37:17.140 fairly treated. So we don't feel like they're fairly treating. We feel like they're talking

00:37:21.780 to us rudely and not neighborly. They're feeling like we've taken trade away from them. And then

00:37:29.360 this is spiraling into just before we're supposed to be seated and this committee is set up into,

00:37:35.120 okay, now you have to give something up for us to start the Kuzma negotiations with Canada.

00:37:46.480 That was really clear. That was a real clear indicator.

00:37:49.440 That came out at the end of the day today.

00:37:51.620 And Jameson Drew is like, okay, we'll come back to the table, but you have to concede something first.

00:37:57.040 And then Mark Carney right away is, I'm not going to concede anything.

00:38:00.580 So as all these actions are happening, they're kind of spiraling off each other to the point where we're now at, unless you're willing to concede something, like, for example, you're allowing to let our dairy farmers go into Canada.

00:38:14.140 You're allowed to open up certain markets in Canada.

00:38:17.960 We're not coming back to the table.

00:38:20.660 It's shocking to me as well because how much the alcohol, the wine, the alcohol industry in America has suffered based on this alcohol ban in all but, as we hear, two provinces in Canada.

00:38:37.800 And Jameson Greer falls under a lot of scrutiny about this from Claudia Tanay.

00:38:44.660 Have a look at this.

00:38:45.760 This is from the House Senate Committee meeting.

00:38:47.900 Every Canadian province, with the exception of Alberta and Saskatchewan, has ceased distribution of U.S. wine and liquor products, including Ontario to the north.

00:38:57.320 This is distorting the market, causing immense harm to our wine producers in the district.

00:39:03.020 And have you and your team raised this issue as well with our Canadian counterparts?

00:39:08.580 And have they been trying to help us?

00:39:11.060 Have they been constructive in this issue, much like with the dairy issue?

00:39:14.680 Well, it's at the provincial level, right?

00:39:16.680 So we hear from the federal government of Canada, well, it's the provinces, and we do have two provinces who don't have this.

00:39:22.460 That being said, I think we're kind of at the end of our rope in just asking for them to do this.

00:39:27.280 Think about it this way.

00:39:28.680 There are two countries that have retaliated economically against the United States in the past year, the People's Republic of China and Canada.

00:39:34.700 So that's kind of the company that they're running in.

00:39:37.400 So my sense is there may have to be an enforcement action to deal with this issue on wine and spirits in Canada.

00:39:42.480 Okay, so he's basically saying the U.S. is prepared to take action to enforce our arrangement with them because it's not in agreement to anything that we've agreed to previously.

00:39:55.480 So that's pretty strong words.

00:39:58.440 He's had a lot of strong quotes about Canada today.

00:40:01.900 Yeah, this is the U.S. trade ambassador to Canada basically saying, number one, we're not on the same page as where we're going.

00:40:10.080 You're going to be a globalist.

00:40:11.520 we're not being globalists anymore now you know if you want to uh stop selling alcohol in your

00:40:18.260 country that's not under kuzma we're going to take legal action this is you know this is kind

00:40:23.300 of gone off the rails again yeah and which is you know go back to where we were on sunday and the

00:40:30.340 nine minute video by the prime minister he that's what he was telling us so now they might have been

00:40:36.980 for seeing this they might have been having conversations behind the scenes they all these

00:40:42.420 things could have been happening but they all ended up at the same spot so you have to believe

00:40:47.700 they either they predicted or they foresaw that this was going to happen rather quickly so now

00:40:53.140 you know coming into wednesday we're we're not at the table and you look at the u.s right now so

00:40:59.700 look at um how the u.s is treating iran and they've treated uh cuba venezuela venezuela

00:41:09.300 a lot of their strategy right now is for countries they're not getting along with and

00:41:14.180 remember the only two countries as you saw from greer's comment on alcohol that have taken actions

00:41:20.340 against the united states under terrorists has been china and canada right right that's a very

00:41:24.980 telling conversation that to him for him to draw both of us into one point that he didn't need to

00:41:31.320 make no was very strategic yeah and very cutting yeah so now he's making that point when the u.s

00:41:38.400 doesn't like someone or when the u.s isn't getting along with someone in their trade negotiations

00:41:42.580 they just take their ball and go home they blockade yeah so now it becomes okay what are

00:41:49.320 we going to blockade canada from what is canada going to block so we're kind of forming these

00:41:54.460 two factions whether we have a committee or not but they're saying in order for you to come back

00:42:00.380 to the table you have to concede something or the table discussion never happens so this committee

00:42:04.760 never gets into play now let's see if they actually hold that line because from a negotiation point

00:42:12.240 of view it shows dominance if you make your if you start a negotiation by making the person

00:42:16.700 negotiate with you concede first you're you're always going to be in the lead position in that

00:42:23.420 negotiation. The art of the deal. You can always see what's coming up next because you're at the

00:42:27.660 front of the train. Yeah. Very Trumpian, right? I think Jim Lang will be happy to hear the kind

00:42:32.720 words of Gene Shaheen talking about how Lutnik shouldn't say nasty words about Canada. But the

00:42:38.320 truth is more what we're hearing from Greer, which is, but we're trying to do a deal, but there's no

00:42:47.040 deal to be made. And so it leaves a question. You've drawn that picture really clearly for me,

00:42:52.620 paul there's two spheres here one of them is globalist and one of them is america first

00:42:58.300 oh yeah we're north america we are way off that map we must look like europeans to them at this

00:43:05.200 point how do we in your mind what do you think the next stages are for this do we bounce off

00:43:11.220 each other further or do we start to adapt to their plan no i think we're i think we're going

00:43:17.360 in totally different directions at this point.

00:43:19.960 I know for a lot of you out there who've had the time,

00:43:24.620 Pierre Polyev's plan on tariffs and trade is not a bad plan.

00:43:29.640 It has some pieces that are salvageable and I think are good,

00:43:33.280 but it's not part of a globalist agenda, right?

00:43:37.300 He's talking about getting closer to the U.S.

00:43:39.960 and adapting, taking strategic reserves.

00:43:43.420 And what he's talking about is reaching a deal

00:43:46.220 where we keep strategic critical minerals for the U.S. to use in their defense and their other

00:43:52.800 businesses. So he's talking about that and he's trying to find a way to become tariff-free by

00:44:00.660 creating reserve pockets for the U.S. that we have. It's an interesting idea. I think it has

00:44:06.040 merit. I think it needs to be developed and it's not there yet. That's not the direction that we're

00:44:12.100 going from the prime minister's perspective right the u.s ambassador said uh to that effect that

00:44:18.580 tariffs are one thing kuzma is another thing we can't have both so i think that we're all under

00:44:25.440 the impression that the u.s expects to pile tariffs on top of a deal that's already been made

00:44:32.660 or will be renegotiated but no it is the tariffs negotiation kuzma is the deal or tariffs are the

00:44:42.080 deal right so i don't think that we're thinking in those aspects but when you hear things coming

00:44:47.340 back from lutnik for example saying that you know when it comes to fiscal responsibility our economy

00:44:54.060 sucks yeah um that's a hard thing to hear it is and i'm on the other side you know on the weekend

00:45:01.400 on sunday we actually called the u.s a weakness yeah right it's true we did do that yeah unfortunately 0.95

00:45:06.920 now we're bar you know we're throwing barbs at each other over the fence rather than sitting 0.99

00:45:11.520 at the table and trying to break bread and figure out why we why our relationship got harmed and

00:45:17.520 that that's not helping at this point and here we are uh days away we're now talking about

00:45:23.760 potentially suing each other we're talking about not sitting down until someone gives something up

00:45:30.240 not a good start to getting to the table i can't remember what countries were involved but there's

00:45:34.320 an old story where uh one country was throwing sticks of dynamite over the border uh onto their

00:45:40.720 under their neighbor and they did that for quite some time you know until the neighbor finally got

00:45:46.640 sick and tired of it started lighting them and throwing them back and that's kind of how i feel

00:45:51.560 in this negotiation to be honest with you could we please be quiet or could we go to the table

00:45:56.920 with a deal i think that uh i think that we feel offended as i pointed out earlier in the show with

00:46:04.260 him being offended doesn't help in this process there are deals that need to be made i do i am

00:46:11.300 one of the guys out there thinking that polio's uh response to the tariffs is a very wise one

00:46:17.460 because it keeps business moving it keeps industry moving and it actually makes us an ally again

00:46:24.260 right but one of the things you know whether you like it or not and this is you know what

00:46:28.900 we did a show talking about the by-elections and this morning you know prior to this steve mckinnon

00:46:36.020 you know from quebec the mp uh you know announced that the house committees were going to be all

00:46:41.620 switched up and control for the majority party which is the liberals uh they got it you know

00:46:48.180 after the by-elections and so quite frankly it's it's whether you like it or not whether you like

00:46:54.020 the direction or not that's the direction canadians have picked and as as greer says

00:46:59.860 as jameson guru says you know if you want globalization then we're in a different good

00:47:07.780 luck we're not at the table and we're in a different i think you're starting to see that so

00:47:12.340 you know as canadians we picked our lane we we support it because we hope it's successful

00:47:17.300 um but it sure is a telling sign how quickly all these things happen so it's a great point paul

00:47:25.340 we have a by-election we have a majority we switch up we switch up our house committees all

00:47:30.860 of a sudden pierre paulios comes up the stairs you know we formed this committee to try to tell

00:47:36.460 people we're going to listen and then all of a sudden the u.s really comes to the table and says

00:47:40.760 time out we're done yeah we i it doesn't sound like we're in the same well that shows you how

00:47:46.120 closely the americans are tracking our actions yeah like really does it shows like the americans

00:47:51.200 are on this like right on um how many days has it been since the uh midterm or since the by

00:47:58.800 elections i think it's been a week week and a half yeah week so within seven days yeah we're at full

00:48:05.440 scale economic war with the u.s yeah they were they definitely were paying attention and you know

00:48:11.160 soon as that majority came, everyone started to do analysis of what their next move was. And now

00:48:16.500 it's playing out. All right. Let's see what happens to the next 24. And I would imagine

00:48:20.460 we'll be sitting here at this rate. I think that a lot's going to happen in the next few days. I

00:48:24.660 think that we, I hope we have opposition response. I hope that the prime minister comes back with

00:48:30.880 something that is not a pre-made PR video. I think we need to hear some, some real comments

00:48:37.040 off the cuff from our prime minister about this and this committee you know what i i think it's

00:48:44.180 a great pr move but it just feels to me like if you ask the prime minister okay what's your plan

00:48:49.660 with the u.s he would have to honestly say i don't necessarily have a plan but my friends do

00:48:55.740 i'm pretty sure and i think that's what we're looking at here is something to come out of this

00:49:01.360 committee hopefully that's a pathway otherwise like you say we're going to bounce off the u.s

00:49:06.940 Stay tuned.

True Patriot Love - April 23, 2026

So Much Has Happened So Fast： Lutnick vs Carney

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