True Patriot Love - The State of Film & Television in 2026 ft Joel Stewart

00:00:00.000 canada's doing okay i think in a larger sense i mean as an industry the movie industry is just

00:00:08.160 very interesting i mean all the industries anyone who tells you this is where it's going

00:00:12.960 doesn't know what they're talking about

00:00:18.960 thanks for joining us tpl media and by the way we might be there locally in your hometown go to

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00:00:47.380 appreciate it. All right let's get on with what's happening today. An opportunity I have once in a

00:00:53.800 while to sit down with joel stewart to talk a little bit about film in canada among other things

00:00:59.660 joel stewart joins us thanks so much buddy well i am the least qualified person you could have

00:01:04.280 rounded up from the streets of toronto i want to see you be here let me test you on that joel

00:01:09.240 because let's see uh network television producer correct oh yes for many years uh stage performing

00:01:15.960 uh rock star still yes uh recent movie in theaters actually you know the more you bring this up the

00:01:23.780 more you're right yeah i hate to be your promo guy but you're perfectly qualified for this and

00:01:28.660 i do appreciate you taking the time uh here we are in the throes of summer and coast to coast in

00:01:33.860 canada that means something from a production standpoint generally speaking it means we're

00:01:38.900 usually pretty busy yep what do you feel is going on out there now how's your gauge on how busy the

00:01:44.980 studios the producers and the tech teams are doing out there you know what i think the tech teams are

00:01:51.060 are doing great uh there there is still the the uh you know we're known for having great crews in

00:01:57.700 very interesting places not just toronto and vancouver but winnipeg has become a film hub

00:02:02.600 okay dot dot dot you know all those uh great bob odenkirk movies the nobody movies they filmed

00:02:07.700 there right the new little house on the prairie that is coming out on netflix which is set in

00:02:13.200 california is filming in you know in winnipeg uh but you know winnipeg really rallied around

00:02:20.200 you know the government said hey we have to turn this into something and then they created a tax

00:02:24.400 credit environment that attracted american producers so in addition to the exchange rate

00:02:29.360 and all those incentives that were there but what happened was back a bunch of years ago

00:02:34.960 when the opposite was happening in alberta a bunch of the alberta people moved to winnipeg

00:02:40.460 and and made that their home and if these are i'm talking about grips and hours and so now there's

00:02:45.480 this hub there is a scene i mean they should maybe change it to hub manitoba because it's now a hub

00:02:52.300 for uh in in many ways for all of the logistics that go on in many parts of canada yeah it's a

00:02:58.620 huge hub uh there's a lot of space there for studios i would imagine yeah and then you've got

00:03:03.740 dramatic seasons there and you have the incredible buildings in winnipeg proper it often doubles for

00:03:09.620 chicago or new york and all that kind of stuff as well so they they've you know so as far as

00:03:15.100 crews go crews are working uh i think crews are thriving here in canada um there was an article

00:03:22.680 in variety today what is today june 16th but again it was about the uh people escaping the

00:03:28.460 scene in la too expensive to shoot in la there's there's the entertainment capital of the world

00:03:33.760 los angeles where else are they going do you think because i've heard this i've heard texas is a big

00:03:38.820 one now yes uh georgia is massive right everything's happening in georgia uh massachusetts

00:03:45.000 massachusetts say it five times fast joel i can't say it even once every time i say it i offend

00:03:52.840 somebody uh he was i was reading this thing and somebody said well the tax credits are better here

00:03:57.740 than they are in california and you know dot dot dot what is that let's talk about that for a minute

00:04:02.420 Now, I've participated in tax credits a couple of times in my life with various television shows, but let's explain to people how that operates because I think that there's a misconception that a huge amount of money from our government is put into film when really what it is in many cases and this kind of production, many cases, it's just a tax relief.

00:04:27.960 It's just a tax arrangement that makes the budget go further.

00:04:31.280 i don't know if that's true i think there is cash involved no no you get the cash yeah you get cash

00:04:37.140 but i don't think that comes from the federal government so essentially what happens is it

00:04:41.840 offsets the cost of production based on where you yes okay so in manitoba for instance uh i don't

00:04:50.760 know why i'm bringing up manitoba all the time no but what are you the king of manitoba i didn't

00:04:54.220 know this but as an example uh just because it's recent in my head i believe it's 30 percent of all

00:05:01.820 of the labor costs you would have would be subsidized by the tax credit and northern

00:05:07.240 ontario has a similar they have yes people might not know there you get a tax credit in ontario

00:05:12.600 just for doing something in ontario okay if you go to northern ontario which is why a lot of things

00:05:17.560 are filmed in sudbury you know sudbury wow film capital of canada capital of canada there's a

00:05:25.900 northern ontario tax threshold so if you were able to move your production out there uh you get a

00:05:32.920 bump to the existing ontario tax credit and you know you think about it this is significant these

00:05:39.900 are significant dollars because oh let's go there and we'll get a tax credit well to go there you

00:05:45.000 have to kind of go there a bunch of people have to be in hotels you need to have the cruise or

00:05:50.200 you need a localized crew which i think is hopefully the net result of this that in in

00:05:56.680 for example winnipeg you get a film community and and a resource community there that can continue

00:06:02.840 to make films that continues to be a destination no matter who's coming in i mean the creative keys

00:06:07.400 will come in like you know when they made fargo in those five seasons of fargo in calgary

00:06:11.720 a lot of the crew were the same crew

00:06:14.360 but a lot of the keys

00:06:16.480 the writers they were all from Hollywood and stuff

00:06:18.660 and they would come up and do that sort of thing

00:06:20.340 so there is a cost to it

00:06:22.040 but you know Canada's doing okay

00:06:24.240 I think in a larger sense

00:06:26.880 I mean as an industry

00:06:29.960 the movie industry is just very interesting

00:06:31.860 I mean all the industries

00:06:32.920 anyone who tells you this is where it's going

00:06:36.020 doesn't know what they're talking about

00:06:37.500 because they don't know and nobody knows

00:06:39.840 no it's changed so dramatically really yeah but here's the thing that's stressing me out now

00:06:45.420 uh as an older guy who made a movie wants to make another movie well there's this great thing

00:06:51.360 happening now people are flocking to the theaters right now the young people are

00:06:55.560 flocking to theaters to see backrooms and obsession both of which you know backrooms

00:07:01.440 was based on a fellow's web series dot dot dot yeah he's in his early 20s he got a budget and

00:07:07.480 he's making he's making bank now yeah and then this movie obsession same story so it being a

00:07:13.920 copycat industry you know that every every head of every whatever company is like let's find another

00:07:19.820 20 year old i can see that what i think is interesting about that is while that's truth

00:07:25.180 cinema is i mean it's changing uh i think i've got tickets upcoming to a symphony for goodness sake

00:07:30.720 uh you can see live events and things like that and there's a huge uh ethnic element now uh to

00:07:36.760 the forum film uh showing going depending on where you are in the country you know a number of

00:07:42.220 theaters are showing punjabi or uh other ethnic related to that community uh and there's less

00:07:49.320 theaters for just straight away film when you add a back rooms for example which by the way freaks

00:07:56.360 me out the whole idea of it freaks me out and so good for that kid alongside those there needs to

00:08:01.860 be this epic series of movies or epic element of movies i think that keeps people uh within the

00:08:08.800 magic there has to be genre of film that has impact to people's emotions and then there has to

00:08:15.440 be these throwaways that are what i like to call viral fascinations in film and i don't think the

00:08:22.060 industry can survive very long on just viral uh fascinations i don't think i don't i think it'll

00:08:28.800 be a fad you know i think it'll be but it'll be a fad for a while you know and it'll be there

00:08:34.760 will be somebody who gets a new job at a new place who said this is what we're going to do

00:08:38.800 and they will forget about experience and all these sorts of things joe let me see how many

00:08:43.080 followers do you have right right like i get it oh my gosh you know we were just talking before

00:08:48.880 we went to camera about about these things that happen now and and the way things are done now

00:08:54.740 and it's like you don't look for the best actor for the part you you wonder you you have a person

00:08:59.500 going how many followers do they have on instagram and it's like well but can they act it doesn't

00:09:03.780 matter how many followers do they have on instagram yeah this becomes a thing what's their viral

00:09:08.080 pattern online are they tiktok or instagram yes oh my lord these things matter these things are

00:09:13.600 discussed and come up and how about i'm gonna make a fantastic movie and they'll be viral the rest of

00:09:18.500 their lives well you know exactly uh when paul thomas anderson won the golden globe for one

00:09:25.260 battle after another he said something very specific in his speech and he pointed to one

00:09:29.900 studio person in the audience and said that person is responsible for this movie weapons and sinners

00:09:37.680 now sinners in one battle after another i think you could just redo the top 10 greatest movies

00:09:43.320 of all time they really did nail it and you could you could make an argument that those movies should

00:09:48.020 be on it those movies made me want to go to theaters again yes yes and marty supreme as

00:09:53.460 well like marty supreme another great example of that a singular vision right and it was like okay

00:09:59.000 some people didn't like marty supreme it was too intense some people didn't like kevin o'leary but

00:10:02.540 i get it that's right that's very funny that's right i probably can't touch that yes i thought

00:10:07.380 he was really good at that movie i did too but i think he was playing the real him did you there

00:10:11.660 was a story i i saw kevin o'leary get interviewed and they were on him for a close-up at one point

00:10:17.480 they did it like 20 times and he said i think you got it and uh safety the director said oh no you

00:10:24.600 don't say i got it that's hilarious you may be in charge where you are but on my set i will decide

00:10:30.760 if we got it or yeah he's a certain arrogance i think it'd be tough to direct but he pulled it

00:10:34.800 off well he was playing himself yeah you know a version a heightened version of himself and

00:10:39.900 congratulations to him because he was excellent but you're right those but those movies they were

00:10:45.300 they were high watermarks that really still have an impact on me looking for the next thing in the

00:10:51.680 theater yeah i'm not sure backrooms is going to do that well we're a little we're a little old for

00:10:56.600 the target audience for that but the good news is that okay kids are going to the theater if it's

00:11:01.180 becoming an event there and because i think x being an exhibitor of of films you were talking

00:11:09.020 about some of the towns that have very specific programming for for certain populations that's

00:11:14.760 how you're going to get butts in your seats yeah and that's how you're going to get loyalty with

00:11:17.880 your neighborhood cinema and all that kind of stuff so that kind of innovation is fantastic

00:11:23.040 where you go to a movie and there's a band playing afterwards like why not we're all in this space

00:11:27.480 like get people in there and celebrate stuff a little bit totally i do think that's a great

00:11:32.560 that's a great perspective on okay and also for investors kids are coming to the theaters what

00:11:37.180 can we do we need the we need the investment yeah yeah and you know i think there will be

00:11:41.340 there are fewer movies being made in general right so you look at uh and why uh i was gonna say like

00:11:51.440 it just seems it's so expensive for a guaranteed return you kind of have to have a superhero a

00:11:57.860 justice league a cartoon you know a comic book character something with a built-in thing they

00:12:03.220 know those things will make money and they're really expensive to make and then if you want

00:12:07.240 a star now it used to be you'd give the star a lot of money and then the star would get a lot

00:12:14.260 more money when the dvd came out well you don't have dvds anymore and and they don't necessarily

00:12:20.240 have a trigger deal for streaming so now they need all their money up front so your budget is

00:12:24.620 just that much higher joel can you explain this to me on that note what does streaming at what's

00:12:31.360 the business of streaming all about i mean do they how do you get a streaming movie deal is it

00:12:38.540 something that's already cut then they go into production because it feels to me that the

00:12:42.660 streamers are taking from the theaters some pretty good projects that would really be suited for

00:12:47.480 theaters they're required i think what the streamers are doing like okay i'm i'm shifting

00:12:53.880 gears a little bit and please stick with sorry because i ask a million questions no no no but

00:12:58.060 but the way i'm answering it is very circuitous but i was thinking the other day about bill simmons

00:13:03.340 now is airing his podcast live on netflix and you go well why why is that of value to netflix

00:13:11.740 you know people don't okay we won't watch it on youtube we'll watch it on netflix okay

00:13:16.220 i get that i think what they're doing is not programming their website they're acquiring

00:13:25.500 talent oh this person is doing that we need them what do they do it doesn't matter we need them

00:13:31.500 we need them we need them i think but getting back to your question about what do streamers do

00:13:37.040 streamers taking things out of theaters by having them on their thing netflix had a lot of years of

00:13:43.900 david fincher type movies and and and his property the great director david fincher so he had stuff

00:13:49.320 that wasn't in theaters it would bank would be on netflix you're right there was a distinguished

00:13:53.740 difference between the director the kind of script and the kind of production that you got on the

00:13:57.740 stream as opposed to in theaters seems to have flipped positions to some degree they will

00:14:03.120 commission a property a movie if there is a big star attached who has a bazillion followers and

00:14:08.600 all these sorts of things if you've made a movie and you want to get it on a streamer in canada

00:14:13.980 we had this with souls road my understanding is they will not accept or consider a film unless

00:14:21.400 it's been in 10 theaters in 10 cities on the same night okay so wow that's quite the criteria yeah

00:14:27.280 and and you know i i love it i love it in the sense of are you serious about this movie no that

00:14:32.960 makes good sense actually joel like okay yeah anybody can make a movie and it can be beautiful

00:14:36.900 but how does it test you know put it in 10 theaters and let's see what the response is

00:14:42.100 from the critics from the audiences it is a test bed uh i would imagine and also there's something

00:14:48.520 about actually delivering it on the screen in 10 cities that adds this credibility and actual

00:14:56.360 out of theaters tangibility that they can use on the stream you know and i it's a it's a criteria

00:15:03.800 that i didn't expect to hear and frankly when we were making the movie i thought maybe this would

00:15:08.520 end up on a streamer one day and i didn't think i'd ever get to see it in a theater across the

00:15:13.240 country i mean i went right i went to seven cities it was pretty cool saw my movie on the big screen

00:15:17.640 and saw different reactions by different people for how you guys did interviews on stage and

00:15:22.180 interacted with the audience oh yeah we did all that stuff and that's fantastic and and you know

00:15:26.400 and people are smart right you know that we would open up a thing for questions and there would be

00:15:30.640 somebody who would say hey you know in that part of the movie oh my gosh they were paying attention

00:15:35.240 and they noticed the thing that i thought they wouldn't notice right and for instance the main

00:15:40.100 character in my movie is left-handed there's a shot of him writing down but then there's a flashback

00:15:43.900 to him playing catch with his buddy and he's got his baseball glove on the left hand and so somebody

00:15:49.480 caught that somebody caught that no pun intended but somebody caught that yeah wow and i was like

00:15:54.280 wow okay good and i didn't notice that or even think about it till about you know 10 minutes

00:15:58.920 uh before we finish the movie in the edit suite i'm like ah no one's gonna nobody's gonna see

00:16:03.620 that that's fine sure how did you feel when that came up and were you like i would immediately

00:16:09.720 starts sweating like i let that one go oh i that was my i mean i i'm full of self-loathing all the

00:16:15.580 time is oh my i've been uncovered as the fraud that i am you know it's kind of my thing so joel

00:16:21.500 you i i think what you're saying is that there's like a criteria a couple of criteria for for the

00:16:27.340 streamers right now that might affect what's going on in canada ongoing from now on one is

00:16:33.320 yeah they commission stuff and two is that they'll commission stuff at a theater based on certain

00:16:39.620 criteria uh that they or they will buy stuff that had certain success in theater they will commission

00:16:45.700 or acquire wow and i i don't you know i don't know the business model of these streamers i don't know

00:16:52.020 how it used to be so straightforward i don't know how they make money and i know netflix has all the

00:16:56.980 money in the world but i i don't know you know i it seems to me that their job is to acquire market

00:17:03.940 share destroy conventional network programming uh and then and then they're doing and do what

00:17:11.140 they do now which is add in commercials right all the disruptors come in and they say well you don't

00:17:16.180 we don't need commercials if you watch it on our thing and then they raise the rates of what you're

00:17:19.860 paying for it now that you're hooked and now they're adding in commercials it's it has been

00:17:23.780 it's quite a journey they've been on i mean if you think about it i mean they used to mail me

00:17:28.660 vhs tapes that's right yeah that's right that's right they were and blockbuster had the opportunity

00:17:35.220 to buy netflix for 50 million dollars and did not and they just let it go i recall that yeah yeah

00:17:40.180 uh just like many things out there the the traditional guys seem to just want to uh

00:17:46.020 squeeze the sponge until it's dry and then go home yeah and leave all that water on the floor

00:17:53.140 for somebody else to mop up i i was listening to some podcasts and they were like and after the

00:17:57.220 game we're gonna do a live podcast and there's this live unprecedented live podcast and i was

00:18:03.060 thinking to myself like it's called radio that's true you know that industry you destroyed yeah

00:18:10.020 you know well here's another thing like let's talk about that a little bit about how

00:18:14.420 the industry is somewhat shrinking technology is getting in the way a little bit or in some

00:18:20.500 cases advancing things yeah uh certain jobs are changing in the industry yeah i mean i would

00:18:27.060 imagine that the executive producer there's always going to be somebody that has to ask

00:18:33.300 usually the foreign market for money to make their film yeah and anybody who has invested

00:18:39.060 in film or television in this country hats off to you because that's the kind of content that

00:18:45.300 is actually pure and wonderful and supporting canadian artists but somebody's always going to

00:18:49.780 have to do that somebody's always going to have to write it so although chat gpt anyway somebody's

00:18:55.620 always going to have to write it not the same why is it not the same it's it it's it's the difference

00:19:00.180 between wood paneling and and a log cabin i think it can look like it it can kind of move like it

00:19:08.260 there's there's there's still something about handmade it within within all this technology

00:19:16.660 this thing that we look for this heart this beating heart you can really only get from an

00:19:22.500 actor and you can really only get from a writer you know things can be written you can you can

00:19:28.020 pump in your story and say make it a script prove me wrong good good good luck proving me wrong i

00:19:36.100 hope you do but there is just something that will never replace the sound of a human voice

00:19:42.580 or anything like that i i i think you know you can do these things if you're writing if you're

00:19:49.020 writing a corporate event you know and you want i need to write a host script for the the the

00:19:53.720 mechanic awards you know at the chat gpt awesome i need mechanic jokes you know right great right

00:20:01.320 how about this one you know um all that stuff i mean i i've i find those those current tools

00:20:09.220 on the on the internet to be kind of helpful actually an enhanced version of google for

00:20:14.460 researching and for fact checking and all that kind of stuff you know double fact check but

00:20:19.180 uh i think those things are great and they can be tools i was very afraid of those things

00:20:23.640 it's interesting that you say that because uh you are and and often in in in concert with other

00:20:31.940 people an incredible writer i will say that i mean i've i've read scripts that nobody's read

00:20:37.620 that you've written that are quite remarkable thank you and the script that you brought to life

00:20:43.700 um for soul's road uh quite incredible johnny's script i just kind of led it in a certain direction

00:20:50.760 and uh happily so so on that note i mean i i kind of feel like i baited you a little bit there

00:20:57.480 but the one thing that i will say is that i don't think anybody is willing to put their money behind

00:21:04.360 their acting career or their directing career even behind an AI-generated project.

00:21:14.120 The other thing is, I think that we're tired of how fast the generation,

00:21:21.400 how we have to auto correct in our mind for all the imagery that doesn't work,

00:21:25.560 all the hallucination that falls into place. I think we have to start to give credit to humans

00:21:31.640 that this era was a little bubble i i think we're starting to see it unfurl a little bit

00:21:39.960 with the big tech companies going oh you know these were the ai has kind of ruined this and

00:21:45.480 this so we're bringing people back right we're starting to see that just the cost of making a

00:21:49.880 movie and generating ai to do it the the the electricity and data power yes yes there is

00:21:57.640 there is a cost to that not only just uh environmentally and all those kind of things

00:22:03.000 coke made their big christmas commercial last year via ai right you know they i didn't even

00:22:08.600 know that and and everyone's like oh it's a yeah coke did ai oh well screwed you know

00:22:14.440 1200 people worked on the coke ai company that's way more than anybody would work on a normal

00:22:20.680 commercial 1200 people had their mitts in this thing wow you know doing all the things you got

00:22:27.480 to do to then finally give it to ai you know and then you do the ai thing and you're like ah that's

00:22:32.600 not what i had in mind so you redo the ai thing and then you get fired and then somebody else

00:22:37.080 1200 different people i don't know what jobs they did but this was um and then of course the data

00:22:44.360 yeah they you know uh that data thing really blows my mind when i started to understand what it takes

00:22:49.560 uh you know somebody pointed out how many how many glasses of water do you think it takes

00:22:54.320 to ask uh chat gpt to check a calendar for something right and i i pushed across a glass

00:23:01.560 of water no two no a jug no two jugs right and so and just the the actual generating of that power

00:23:12.740 like do we know what we're doing no apparently not i've i'm old enough sorry i cut you off

00:23:17.980 your show but no no i'm old enough to have lived through a bunch of technological advancements

00:23:24.020 right you know in the in the 90s uh place i was working at like okay linear story president of

00:23:30.580 our company was in the newspaper and he said linear storytelling is dead oh really yeah and

00:23:35.760 we were we were trying to sell cd roms where you could you could jump to this part that where the

00:23:40.480 viewer could navigate their own experience right then we discovered people don't want to interact

00:23:45.640 with their tv at all we want a story we want to be we as humans i think at the end of the day we

00:23:52.120 want we want to enjoy a story we want to be moved by a story we don't want to tell the story all the

00:23:58.420 time i like telling the story but but if you're one of the poor victim people want to people want

00:24:03.720 to just be told a story it's from when we were kids we were told a story when we went to bed

00:24:08.020 we weren't uh going you know dad can the uh can the wolf be nicer yeah i'll take choice b yeah

00:24:16.280 yeah yeah right you know no i think that you're right that that element of storytelling and and

00:24:21.800 really can canadians can be very proud of this we've got a great history of well-written well

00:24:28.900 directed and really well acted movies here in canada um and you know i'm glad to hear that

00:24:34.440 that it's busy here in canada at the moment i film and and and and let's get excited about

00:24:39.240 something that nirvana the band the movie yeah that that piece of work uh again you know they're

00:24:45.980 using footage that they had on youtube the actors from 20 years ago but it's a fine fine fine piece

00:24:53.480 of work that people went to and people loved and it was appropriately awarded at the screen awards

00:25:02.080 and uh that director matt johnson i think it should be an inspiration to people a lot younger

00:25:07.840 than me but then again you look at his work that movie is very much its own thing he also made the

00:25:15.740 blackberry movie which i enjoyed a great deal which has a lot of the same style i was going to

00:25:19.500 say that's a style yeah now he found a style a cutting style even an audio style yes that's

00:25:26.460 really unique yes and the camera motion and all that stuff and it's like you feel like you're

00:25:30.860 you feel like you're eavesdropping on something which makes you as the listener as the viewer

00:25:34.840 more engaged we are nosy and uh and and so more of that but my point in all that is like someone

00:25:41.960 along the line said you go be you here's here's here's a real problem we have in life and it

00:25:51.100 really pertains to the creation of art mike you make the best lattes in the world and i'm opening

00:25:56.040 a coffee shop come and make your lattes at my coffee shop what can i do to get you to come and

00:26:01.560 make your lattes at my car then you get the job and they're like we want you to make them like

00:26:05.580 this but you wanted me to make my lot right oh yes well i i had that experience in television

00:26:12.100 for many years oh yeah we like the show you're the guy for the job yeah now be somebody else

00:26:18.000 exactly yeah this show concept is fantastic we're in for 26 episodes

00:26:24.080 one quick change yeah everybody needs to be penguins

00:26:29.600 i don't really i'm budget for paint but our tendency in the business is to stay employed

00:26:37.360 and so penguins often it is i was thinking the same thing you know like i too was thinking they

00:26:44.000 should be penguins that's our first instinct yeah exactly of course you know what genius penguins

00:26:49.360 penguins it is yeah i was in a meeting i'll tell you a little story i was in a meeting about a tv

00:26:54.400 series uh one of the gentlemen that developed the show is sitting in the room with us now

00:26:59.120 and in a meeting one of the uh supporting production company people creative person asked

00:27:05.760 uh well what nationality are the animals in this series and i said they're animals

00:27:15.540 they couldn't get their head around it because we don't want to offend anybody

00:27:20.620 any of the animals so once you've got an idea and somebody buys it it isn't even it's still

00:27:29.540 good for the killing at that point yeah yeah no you know and and you know you pays your dollar

00:27:35.100 gets to holler all those things but what happens is uh the product just becomes so

00:27:43.100 diluted the original vision becomes so diluted uh that you end up with something mediocre i mean i

00:27:49.580 i did i did a show called mississippi snake grabbers this was back when duck dynasty how

00:27:56.060 did i miss that oh well you were not the only one my friend uh but duck dynasty was the massive show

00:28:03.340 on a oh yeah and so everyone in the world was like well we need our own duck dynasty

00:28:08.140 need our own duck dynasty and uh i was in mississippi one night i was shooting a travel show

00:28:17.260 um and we were in duke's steakhouse in pilahatchee mississippi and our host was going to eat the 72

00:28:23.020 ounce steak because if you do you get it for free and uh and because there was a camera crew coming

00:28:28.860 from cmt the restaurant was packed the mayor was there knox ross all these families were there it

00:28:34.140 was very congested and these good old boys showing up and they're handing me dvds and

00:28:39.340 grab you one outfitters and and i'm like wow hey really nice and i couldn't make out a word these

00:28:43.580 guys were saying well it's that's it fantastic yeah really nice to meet you well you know i'll

00:28:51.100 check this out and uh so i and we're wrapping out and i said to the lady judy who owned the place

00:28:56.780 oh you know sorry i didn't get a chance to talk to those guys what's the deal with them he said

00:29:00.620 well they're they're like rock stars around here and i said what do they do again well instead of

00:29:05.100 fishing they they go out and they grab snakes with their hands and i'm like and they they they eat

00:29:10.940 this they no no they put them back at the end i'm like oh okay all right and and then i'm like okay

00:29:16.700 well i'm about to and she says well they only do it to relieve stress from their day job because

00:29:21.340 they all work for the mississippi bureau of narcotics and i'm like okay what yes now i'm

00:29:27.660 very interested i got a show i'm very interested yeah they have okay so so anyway we we did a bunch

00:29:34.860 of development down there for one summer and then the next summer we made what is basically a

00:29:40.460 a genius reality sitcom where in every episode they take out people on the on the water and

00:29:47.260 they would grab snakes which is all real and it all happened and it was really quite something

00:29:52.220 and it got so polluted at the network level that i was just like all the joy all the nuance all the

00:30:00.620 stuff all the humor all the act it was just like everything just got notched down 85 percent what

00:30:07.900 and i remember getting one note from one of these network executives uh who were on the floor above

00:30:13.900 me you know uh why does this happen in this episode i said well that's planting a seed for

00:30:20.220 what happens in episode six and then because of this and also in the context of this i wrote a

00:30:24.860 doctoral thesis on why this minor thing happens in episode four well just change it anyway oh

00:30:31.180 so you were you really didn't want to know you just wanted to change it and you don't care what

00:30:35.660 happens down the road in this arc you know and then i think that was my first nervous breakdown

00:30:40.460 was that show it's interesting to note that i'm just going to close the loop on this one

00:30:44.540 it it ultimately didn't get a second season um i was going to say it's interesting to know that i

00:30:50.940 it did it did it go it went into production yeah no it aired okay and it was it was it did well

00:30:57.500 by our standards but it didn't get a second season but so i kind of view it as a failure that's not

00:31:03.660 true but i wish it was my failure and i don't feel i put my failure on the screen i felt it was

00:31:13.340 a homogenized version of something that was totally awesome and we had characters and

00:31:18.780 and it was anyway yeah heartbreaking well you know what joel to that end i think that that is

00:31:23.580 a note that you can hear from many creative people along the way uh that that that dilution of

00:31:32.220 creativity at the network level leaves producers and directors dissatisfied with their own work

00:31:39.340 and not just not just precious egos or massive egos like myself it was like there were a crew

00:31:45.980 of 20 of us doing this thing and living in in that's right happy hotels in mississippi for

00:31:51.820 lovely places lovely hotels in mississippi we accredited them on the tv series we ate so well

00:31:57.660 um a lot of snake a lot of steak i said to one of the guys we had a new crew member down i said

00:32:02.940 he said what's it like i said wow when you get there just so you know you'll have to drink

00:32:06.780 something they made themselves and you'll have to eat something that you don't know what it is

00:32:11.180 and we had a little laugh and then he was literally there on the first day and he's

00:32:14.620 like both of those things have just happened but but anyway of the large crew they were also

00:32:21.980 incredibly disappointed it wasn't just me it was like it's not the show we shot why did they why

00:32:26.620 Why did they do that?

00:32:27.300 That's not the show we shot.

00:32:28.400 That's not the show we shot.

00:32:30.100 And, you know, if it had turned into a big hit, I would have said,

00:32:35.200 those people are geniuses and stuff.

00:32:36.580 Right, right.

00:32:37.360 But the things, it just, it didn't.

00:32:40.480 So, well, if we're going to go this far,

00:32:43.700 trust the person you have down in the trenches doing it.

00:32:46.460 Say, no, I think this is the best solution to this.

00:32:48.620 I think this is the best way to tell this.

00:32:50.060 I think that's a consistent industry standard.

00:32:54.360 Yeah.

00:32:54.740 You know?

00:32:55.080 i mean it is it is uh bambi versus godzilla the david mammoth book about you know film is a

00:33:00.440 collaborative business bend over it used to be based on research now it's based on a moving

00:33:04.700 target of how many follows how many likes what's trending yeah you know how can i get this out fast

00:33:10.140 enough to meet the trend to hit the algorithm i think that those days uh of actual research

00:33:16.120 are just intensifying and the the capacity at which they expect the produce the producers the

00:33:23.120 production companies and the creative people to change on a dime is going to be more in demand

00:33:29.300 it i i yes i think you're i think you're spot on we don't we just don't know what's going to happen

00:33:37.100 and then and then this level of executives and there's lots of them there's way too many than

00:33:44.360 there need to be on certain things i think yeah um but they're going to preserve their jobs and

00:33:49.460 going to preserve their jobs by giving opinion they're not going to say go away for a while let

00:33:53.940 me know uh when it's done i want to see it you know but if you look at the the the the prestige

00:34:00.180 tv show soprano the shield all those shows csi csi of course which one is csi new york right you

00:34:11.300 know but a lot of those shows um really they didn't get any network interference you always

00:34:18.580 hear about the sopranos they the network had an issue with episode four of season one the episode

00:34:23.140 called college and and then david chase put his foot down and and they didn't like the title of

00:34:30.180 the show either but those are the two main notes they had but they left the people who were in the

00:34:35.300 world of the show to create the show and they know their audience those people know their audience

00:34:40.740 too you know or they know how to create one by creating a driving series by getting the right

00:34:47.540 actors by getting the right directors i think uh that's the other thing in television there's

00:34:51.700 several directors you know you'll do an episode i'll do an episode you'll do another episode

00:34:56.580 and to keep that consistency among that creative group of people uh throughout a series is a real

00:35:03.620 circus it's a real skill set well i i i'm of the belief that the director of photography on those

00:35:10.660 series that have revolving directors are really the stars pretty pretty clutch yeah you know

00:35:16.900 they'll be the ones who at least will retain the the signature visual identity of the piece

00:35:23.860 and quite often they are the people that the lead actors are most familiar with because they work

00:35:28.740 with them every day so right how is that yeah another one of those right oh yeah a problem

00:35:34.260 with my camera and then they'll get another one exactly without defending the director who might

00:35:38.900 be like oh we just got the greatest shot yes there are some really great directors making television

00:35:43.620 canada well good directors and dops uh they pick each other often i've noticed like they'll

00:35:48.980 recommend one another they'll feel comfortable to work with one another it is an emotional

00:35:53.540 it's an it's it's it's emotional art and so you need people who will ride with you the people you

00:35:59.540 trust people you've made mistakes with before and people you've emerged from those mistakes with

00:36:04.340 before and it's really quite something okay give me some scuttlebutt what's in production out there

00:36:08.660 what are you hearing about oh gosh what am i hearing about oh my gosh that little house on

00:36:14.980 the prairie is done now i think little house on the prairie will be debuting soon uh calgary's very

00:36:21.220 busy with all kinds of stuff there's uh an hbo's reality series filming outside of calgary a couple

00:36:28.580 more scripted things in town there too again another example of uh really world-class crew

00:36:35.940 members all across the board in alberta um you know you look at the fargo the tin star

00:36:43.780 all those things that they repeatable series that were shot in calgary that are all excellent

00:36:48.660 um and so those people are busy all the time you have the obligatory western is shooting out there

00:36:55.540 this time you know and and i think netflix is also doing a a coming of age romance set on the uh

00:37:04.260 the railway line oh fantastic that sounds out there as well now uh the hockey series

00:37:13.040 uh i can't remember the name of it though oh heated rival heated rivalries that's back for

00:37:17.980 a second and uh in production now there's a very interesting story about that i'm going to get in

00:37:23.380 trouble for this i'm not telling you that it's true i'm only telling you it's what i heard okay

00:37:28.640 jacob tierney we were getting back to net network interference okay

00:37:34.840 network interference jacob tierney apparently took that to netflix and started it with netflix

00:37:43.280 and i went oh i think we're losing the plot but he had still the ability to withdraw

00:37:47.420 the show and shop it elsewhere which is how it ended up at crave here in canada and then of

00:37:54.520 course hbo picked it up right away um and then it turned into this vanity fair thing so that's

00:38:02.200 incredible for everybody involved there was one of the actors was involved in a as a recent it

00:38:10.220 might have been an issue social media posts from his youth so that'll be interesting to see what

00:38:14.540 happens yeah but the world is kind of waiting for that uh but there's been an interesting thing that

00:38:20.180 happened again allegedly i am hearing it third hand the the talk at bell crave is like well we

00:38:30.100 didn't really we really didn't have too much to do with it he came in and had it all sorted out and

00:38:35.020 he did the show and maybe we should just let people do the shows we approve and kind of stay

00:38:41.140 out of their way a little bit is my understanding wow of what their philosophy is going to be

00:38:47.600 because they've had a lot of shows in there that, of course,

00:38:50.200 if your job is a television executive, you will micromanage

00:38:53.880 because you'll think that's what you need to do.

00:38:56.600 And I'm not fighting with you.

00:38:58.000 I'm not saying you shouldn't have a job.

00:38:59.920 But sometimes, like if you're a basketball player,

00:39:03.540 sometimes the best thing to do is to get out of the way.

00:39:06.740 And I don't think this is any different.

00:39:09.520 But I have heard that Crave is like, okay, we're looking for ideas, dot, dot, dot.

00:39:13.500 and internally they're saying let's get the right people again because you make the best lattes

00:39:22.240 let's let you make the latte when you get the gig you know so i think there wouldn't it be nice if

00:39:29.140 we got to that point boy wouldn't it have been nice if that crew was a crave the last time i

00:39:33.900 sat at the table am i right nick can i get an amen oh i i can pretty much there is a high turnover

00:39:40.580 you know you could book a new pitch meeting for the same project oh yeah maybe we'll get back in

00:39:44.780 there that's true uh look before we wrap yeah do you mind uh just sharing with uh the audience

00:39:50.940 because I think I could do this but I could do it for television not so much for film

00:39:55.100 how do you get a film made just the quickly the the the beats in the process between I've got a

00:40:03.940 script and release in theaters or on a streamer oh boy uh oh boy right how i mean hey man uh when

00:40:16.920 i made the movie i made i was very lucky to to have been asked to do that at my advanced age

00:40:23.940 so 45 years this year yes uh i drink three quarts of my own urine daily to ward off infection oh

00:40:31.840 duly noted yes save some of that for me if you're wondering what if this is on youtube they'll be

00:40:36.240 like what's his secret in the in the chat yeah i just told you what the secret is uh well i mean

00:40:42.960 you you need uh you need an idea you need an idea you know i i mean i i mean and and then i'll come

00:40:51.120 around to a lesson you need an idea these days you need a script it used to be give us a paragraph

00:40:58.560 and we'll give you money to write the script now you'll write the script and then if it gets to a

00:41:03.920 certain point you may get development money to rewrite the script if it involves uh real life

00:41:09.840 real stories you would need a lawyer to acquire the life rights um and then so let's just say

00:41:17.840 you work four or five years on a script and you get it going and you have a a producing body a

00:41:24.720 production company or a studio or a streamer or a network um and then you get to that point

00:41:32.400 and you're going to have the casting discussion the cash flow discussion or you know all that

00:41:39.920 stuff that has to happen um and uh well then you just do what you always do the production part's

00:41:46.560 easy it's the getting to production part that's really hard how do you get the money

00:41:51.520 got to get the right person on the right day and you got to have the right idea

00:41:58.160 generally speaking it's investor money in movies in canada

00:42:01.600 uh no i don't see a lot of private investment going on i see a lot of broadcaster money

00:42:07.760 uh and distributor money but i don't see the movie i made was was uh be a

00:42:13.680 private investment but that was kind of rare um these days it used to be they got a big tax

00:42:20.640 write off if they they would just give you a check not that i ever was the beneficiary of this is a

00:42:25.440 little before my time but someone would cut a check for a million bucks and they could write

00:42:29.440 off a million bucks and then the government kind of changed that loophole thanks government yeah

00:42:33.760 yeah but i would say this if someone's listening there and they say well you know i i have a script

00:42:41.120 in the my shelf that i've been on okay somebody said this to me recently

00:42:47.280 tell a story that only you can tell

00:42:52.080 you know something i have the benefit of having experienced that with you directly um

00:43:03.940 man can i yeah so one day joel and i sat down first time we met and i told him a story yeah

00:43:12.800 and last week i believe you acquired the life rights to the people i told you the story about

00:43:19.340 and i think that was in 2018 so look at that process right there yeah so so yes you told me

00:43:26.020 this great story about some people you grew up with and and you you said tell me if this would

00:43:32.160 make an interesting movie and i went oh that's it you're making this up because it was kind of

00:43:37.660 interesting yeah you did say that and is this true and then i i went home and then you know a couple

00:43:46.380 months later i kept thinking about that i wonder if it well i wonder what it would be like and then

00:43:50.700 i i just went through what i remembered from your conversation and then i made up a bunch of stuff

00:43:56.580 to get us from point a to point b and i wrote a script which if if we're lucky enough to ever make

00:44:03.340 this movie um by the way if you are a private investor um yeah i believe this movie can win

00:44:12.880 best picture not at the canadian screen awards not at the bafta i believe it can win best picture

00:44:19.500 at the academy award please investors reach out i'll make sure that you're connected i think it's

00:44:26.660 that good i really do it's a fantastic story but to your point it was a story only now you could

00:44:34.960 tell because you know the individuals you have a linkage to the yes now that i've met the actual

00:44:42.220 couple in you know and realized they're as lovely as you said they were uh and they have more to

00:44:48.900 contribute to the story uh so our next phase is going to be uh i'm going to start cracking a

00:44:55.080 rewrite on it uh now that there's a chance now that i have the life rights that it could actually

00:45:01.660 turn into something so now you get the investor on board the next thing that happens is you've

00:45:06.520 got to make a sale of this or do you get the investor and fly this production with the hopes

00:45:14.820 of selling it i think you do those things concurrently yeah i think you i think in i think

00:45:21.680 distributors they're going to want to see it if they're not paying for it they're going to want

00:45:27.600 to see it if they're paying for it they're going to want to be there every day and make sure it's

00:45:30.980 fun you know so there's a real nice aspect of a little bit of freedom why are you in my trailer

00:45:37.460 we're the network yes yeah we're the archery we're the studio yeah we were going to ask you

00:45:42.820 the same thing so gosh that's a 2016 now so that's an eight-year process not every day of my life

00:45:50.520 you know but every so often we would circle back on it and now uh a producer involved and um and

00:45:58.640 so we're gonna take a crack at it why not right and you know the odds of this happening

00:46:02.980 are are extremely slim because really hard to you know really hard to get a movie made

00:46:11.020 listen to listen to major stars in hollywood talking about they couldn't get this made it

00:46:17.420 never happened i was going to do this thing but it never happened they couldn't even get at me so

00:46:22.020 it's hard to you you know even even major franchise movies you think that would be a no-brainer okay

00:46:28.360 we're back into production with this no no you know decades and decades before they they can

00:46:34.340 make a run back at it by the way i i refuse to admit that diehard four and five actually happened

00:46:40.460 okay so we could remake those why don't we start with that at least the networks know what they're

00:46:45.260 going to get yeah right or the streamers we'll just refresh it a little bit joel thanks for the

00:46:49.740 insight on stuff and uh is that helpful in any way i feel like i avoided all of your questions

00:46:54.620 i think in production i think that your answers to my non-questions were wonderful i really

00:47:00.620 appreciate this uh i'm going to put a link down so people can uh check out the website for souls

00:47:05.560 road because when it comes out and it will be out at some point on one of the uh streaming networks

00:47:10.400 i really encourage you to see it it's a beautiful film and uh you're a beautiful guy joel thanks

00:47:15.240 Thank you very much. Pleasure, as always.

00:47:45.240 Because your safety is our top priority. Shop now at lesslethal.ca.

True Patriot Love - June 25, 2026

The State of Film & Television in 2026 ft Joel Stewart

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