True Patriot Love - February 21, 2026


The State Of Public Transit


Episode Stats

Length

17 minutes

Words per Minute

191.75749

Word Count

3,378

Sentence Count

325

Hate Speech Sentences

1


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Canada has invested billions in public transit. Delivery has been slow and expensive. It's been
00:00:11.120 unreliable in some of the best cases in major cities across the country. And in fact, it doesn't
00:00:17.120 necessarily match up with the way Canadians live. Talking with me about that today and more,
00:00:23.100 Brady Wedham joins us, reporter at large here at TPL. Brady, thanks. I appreciate this.
00:00:27.980 Reporter and GoTrain specialist. I think I've become a GoTrain specialist over the past
00:00:33.120 eight months or so. Yeah, it's been quite the experience. Before we get into it,
00:00:37.480 I want to remind people, subscribe, tell a friend, tplmedia.ca. And in the Play Store,
00:00:43.640 you'll find the TPL, True Patriot Love app, and the same thing for Apple. So I recommend you do it.
00:00:51.140 All of the most recent shows go up. Plus, there's some members-only content coming to YouTube. So
00:00:55.840 if you're watching this on YouTube, right, maybe start signing up or thinking about it and
00:01:00.480 allocating those funds for that. But yeah, we're going to put up a couple of features out on YouTube.
00:01:05.260 So some premium content is on its way. Two new docs are slated for members-only,
00:01:10.560 and we'll be giving you more information about that. But yeah, you are a GoTrain specialist here
00:01:15.980 in the studio. Many people that work here are transit people, but the majority of us are drivers.
00:01:22.320 Yep. Your experience over the last seven months on the Ontario Go between the Hamilton area and the
00:01:29.460 Toronto area has been nothing short of abominable. You know, I used to take pride in riding the GoTrain
00:01:35.560 back in like 2016, 2017-ish. I was on it every single day for a year going from, I lived on Lakeshore
00:01:43.980 going down into Hamilton for a business that I owned. And I used to love getting on that train.
00:01:49.440 You almost felt like it was like, my baby takes the morning. It went through your head.
00:01:54.940 I didn't see that coming. I'll be honest with you.
00:01:56.700 The sunrise.
00:01:57.080 But I get the vibe.
00:01:58.320 Yeah. No, it felt like you were on the train to go and do something successful. Now, when you get
00:02:04.020 on the train in 2026, 10 years later, you feel if the train actually shows up, because they have been
00:02:11.980 canceling a lot of trains recently, and we'll get into that in detail here through the episode. But
00:02:16.380 showing up to the train now feels like it's your one getting robbed on your ticket price.
00:02:21.160 What are you paying?
00:02:21.600 The average is about $15 to $20 per one-way.
00:02:25.460 That's an expensive ride.
00:02:26.660 It used to be $21 inclusive for the day, right?
00:02:29.020 $30 a day is a lot of money to ask people to put aside from the paycheck.
00:02:32.800 It is. And if you're most of these stations outside of the downtown Toronto GTA core, they take an Uber
00:02:40.040 to get to, right? They're not in suburbia. They're in the middle of like the big block areas.
00:02:45.820 Well, that goes to the thing that I opened with saying, you know, I don't know that transit really
00:02:50.180 matches up to the urban sprawl that we put out there. And how as Canadians we expect it to be
00:02:55.280 serviced in that way is really difficult because it does require buses to trains, trains to
00:03:01.900 inner city trains or street cars.
00:03:04.460 And then another bus or Uber once you're in the city to get to the location you're trying to get to,
00:03:08.900 right?
00:03:09.280 Since the holidays, it's been a challenge for you because there was technical issues
00:03:13.920 with a derailment, I think, near or at Union Station.
00:03:19.220 That took what felt like weeks actually to repair and get back on track.
00:03:23.340 It seems to be the big one. Frozen signals. I don't even know how we were in a zone in Canada
00:03:29.100 where they don't keep those signals either warmed. Our friend Paul, a host on this show,
00:03:34.380 was saying that too, that there should be some sort of like system in place that if the weather
00:03:38.220 even dropped to minus 50, that these signals would still work. Minus 20, they shouldn't be dying out.
00:03:43.920 Mainly winter here in Ontario. Like you think we'd build for that.
00:03:49.100 Understaffed is another big thing that I'm noticing. Staff is not the same as it used to be
00:03:54.180 even just in the summer. And it seems to be less and less every week that goes by. You see one
00:04:00.200 security instead of two, or you see nobody. Like if a train gets canceled, there's no one to talk to.
00:04:05.960 Right. You're just stuck.
00:04:07.600 And the person that's on the line.
00:04:08.920 So what happens? You're stuck at a train. You've got to get to someplace.
00:04:11.960 What do you do at the station when you realize, okay, my train has been fully canceled.
00:04:15.740 I have no way to get to where I'm going.
00:04:17.140 You hope the next one shows up. Man, if it doesn't, once you're three in, that's my motto now,
00:04:22.040 is once I've missed two or three or I see that cancellations have happened,
00:04:25.720 I just get an Uber and eat.
00:04:28.100 Two to three arrivals in a row could be.
00:04:31.520 In some cases, yeah. It seems to be more heading west than it is heading east.
00:04:36.040 I don't know why.
00:04:37.820 Well, maybe because you're going west.
00:04:39.500 The people in the east are going, no, no, it's bad for us too.
00:04:42.160 No, I know, but I see the schedules everywhere, right?
00:04:45.920 And I see the trains that are going.
00:04:47.100 It's very rare do I see them getting canceled heading into.
00:04:50.240 Or what happens is they get turned into express trains.
00:04:52.660 So they'll only stop at Union.
00:04:54.740 Now, a couple of months ago, we did an episode on transit crime.
00:04:58.500 Yeah.
00:04:58.680 And that was a disturbing bit of business because across Canada, there is less security.
00:05:04.140 People feel less secure on our public transit, buses and trains.
00:05:07.960 Add to it these scheduling problems and technical issues that are holding people up.
00:05:12.660 And now there's one more element to this.
00:05:15.460 The population is growing.
00:05:17.320 Since COVID, by the way, transit went down over, I think it went over 70% drop around COVID.
00:05:25.900 It only bounced back to about 70% of what it was pre-COVID, 70% to 75%.
00:05:31.260 Because so many people were working from home.
00:05:33.480 Now there's been a call to action to get people back to work.
00:05:36.500 Trains are rammed.
00:05:37.360 And the trains must be just over there.
00:05:39.560 So now you've got cancellations of many more people not getting to their destinations.
00:05:44.900 This can cost you a job, cost more for daycare.
00:05:47.800 Yeah.
00:05:48.240 Put you in a situation of stress that you weren't bargaining for just to get to where you need to go.
00:05:53.300 I can only imagine the amount of people that lost their job.
00:05:55.900 And the jobs that don't have any leniency on being late.
00:05:59.820 Like those jobs that you can't be late for.
00:06:01.340 You've got to be there on that.
00:06:02.800 Right.
00:06:03.060 Literally that minute, you've got to be in there timed in.
00:06:05.680 And there's no way to...
00:06:07.900 The websites don't update quick enough.
00:06:11.480 The apps don't update quick enough.
00:06:13.060 Trains just seem to come and go as they please.
00:06:15.800 This is some days.
00:06:16.840 Some other days it's nice.
00:06:17.880 And speaking about the crime or the transit, just so I don't forget about it, the crime in transit.
00:06:22.940 I've heard that's a huge thing.
00:06:24.520 I see that that's probably maybe after some of the stops that I'm taking because I haven't seen any of that.
00:06:30.060 Oh, I'm relieved to hear that.
00:06:31.460 Zero.
00:06:31.760 Okay, so now go is one issue, but then you get into the rest of Toronto.
00:06:40.280 That seems to be the problem.
00:06:41.440 This is kind of the crux of the discussion, if you don't mind, Brady.
00:06:44.260 Yeah.
00:06:44.400 Because we've just built an LRT.
00:06:46.640 What did that take us?
00:06:47.600 Eight months, Nick?
00:06:48.660 Eight to 12 months to build that?
00:06:50.360 No.
00:06:51.040 It was...
00:06:51.600 A little bit longer.
00:06:53.000 Years overdue.
00:06:54.340 A little bit longer than eight months.
00:06:55.980 Billions of dollars over budget.
00:06:58.620 A billion, yeah.
00:06:59.460 A billion over budget.
00:06:59.800 And it runs...
00:07:00.820 A billion and a half?
00:07:01.620 Something like that, yeah.
00:07:02.580 And it runs partially by the sounds of things.
00:07:06.860 That is just one case.
00:07:09.800 You know, other parts of the country, Montreal was successful with it.
00:07:14.920 The Ottawa LRT was a mess as well.
00:07:18.240 We're not necessarily great at building transit here in Canada that matches our needs for certain.
00:07:25.660 It matches our budget.
00:07:27.360 And now we're about to embark on a high-speed rail project at the federal level that will connect Toronto with Quebec City with stops along the way.
00:07:35.760 So we look stuff up a lot of the time before we do these shows.
00:07:38.460 We don't just talk.
00:07:39.300 Although, like you say, the comment section may not agree with us.
00:07:42.180 Yeah, we do tend to do a little bit of research.
00:07:44.940 And one of the most outrageous numbers is per kilometer, what it costs us to do transit.
00:07:50.460 And I think that the reason those numbers are so high and why transit may get a kind of secondary seat is because Canada's not really laid out for transit outside of major cities.
00:08:00.700 So what's the price per kilometer to lay transit down?
00:08:04.960 Well, the average cost, it's some of the highest, by the way, in the world.
00:08:09.760 It's about $396 million per kilometer.
00:08:12.160 That's outrageous.
00:08:15.500 We didn't build the infrastructure to handle it, and we built the sprawl already.
00:08:20.720 We built a lot of it.
00:08:22.260 It's really interesting to me that we're so streetcar adept and so light rail adept when we're in the winter.
00:08:32.100 Yeah.
00:08:32.340 I mean, there's nothing better than the subway in winter if it's run right and, you know.
00:08:38.340 Who wants to wait outside in the snow to catch a train to be across town in 10 seconds and apparently get in a fight while you're on it?
00:08:46.140 Well, don't worry, Brady, because it's only $396 million per kilometer.
00:08:50.820 Okay, that's good.
00:08:51.640 Unless you're building high speed.
00:08:53.380 Wait, what's the high speed cost, Mike?
00:08:55.060 It can be north of almost $500 million per kilometer, everything in.
00:09:00.260 $500 million per kilometer.
00:09:04.540 Yeah.
00:09:05.100 Having said that, they have an amortization program that essentially should bring the cost down to a mere $30 million per kilometer by the time all is said and done.
00:09:17.620 Because they're building so much of it, this is 1,000 kilometers of high speed rail that we're talking about going 300 kilometers an hour,
00:09:25.740 reducing a trip between Toronto and Quebec City to, you know, roughly half the time.
00:09:32.100 Three hours, you're there end to end.
00:09:36.020 And they're already beginning the process.
00:09:38.480 They had a meeting in the city of Toronto down at the St. Lawrence Market where all of the experts and all the pundits got together and had a chat about it
00:09:48.260 and explained from an engineering standpoint how they would do it from a political standpoint.
00:09:51.720 We had one of our researchers down there.
00:09:54.360 And so this is well underway.
00:09:56.940 This is something that is being pushed along.
00:09:59.120 It's a lot of money.
00:09:59.660 And it makes me wonder, okay, so we're not really great at doing this.
00:10:03.820 We've created this sprawl issue.
00:10:06.160 And yet we're going to undertake this massive project that will take longer than the average political stay in parliament.
00:10:16.200 So will it get part way and get dropped?
00:10:18.940 Will it get neglected after this?
00:10:21.560 Will it just become a boondoggle?
00:10:23.600 Well, how much?
00:10:24.920 Okay, so the cost of that, I'm just trying to think of where we get to that number.
00:10:28.560 Let's just say it's 30 and it's not 500 because 500 is just mind-boggling.
00:10:32.860 In the city, you can see it.
00:10:34.260 There's a lot of infrastructure to move.
00:10:35.940 Maybe in the city, yeah.
00:10:36.560 You know, if you're digging tunnels, it can be outrageous.
00:10:38.760 But the farmland that they bought, why would the cost be so high to just lay down track?
00:10:44.040 I think a lot of it has to do with where they're going to lay the track and what's required there.
00:10:49.180 There's a lot of, you know, Brady, I made this all up.
00:10:52.500 I have no idea how you can get to that number.
00:10:56.140 No, I understand how you get to that number because there's a lot of, just to lay down a kilometer of track is a lot, it would be a lot harder than laying down a kilometer of asphalt, right?
00:11:06.020 There is so much that goes into it.
00:11:07.320 Oh, yeah.
00:11:07.560 The amount of team, the team that would be hired would be a good portion of that alone.
00:11:11.340 It would cost millions just in labor.
00:11:13.660 I don't think you could have a lot of moving around engineering-wise on a high-speed train.
00:11:18.240 I think it has to be pretty smoothly engineered.
00:11:21.840 So you would assume that it's...
00:11:23.520 Have you seen the turns that some of them do in Japan?
00:11:25.880 Yeah.
00:11:26.300 Oh, my goodness.
00:11:27.880 Yeah.
00:11:28.000 Like 300 clicks, right?
00:11:30.000 They're just...
00:11:30.540 Oh, by the way.
00:11:31.160 I want this.
00:11:32.680 Of everybody you know, I want this the most.
00:11:35.680 Yeah.
00:11:35.820 Because I think it'd be cool to get on one of these things.
00:11:37.980 I've always been dying to get...
00:11:38.940 I love the ones in Europe.
00:11:40.040 They've made them work.
00:11:41.280 It's made a big difference to how people can do business and live life in a widespread area, you know, live in one area, work in another.
00:11:50.040 It's highly effective.
00:11:53.200 Now, will it be priced accordingly?
00:11:55.820 You know, to use via rail is not necessarily inexpensive.
00:11:58.960 I wonder if this is one of the reasons why they kiboshed the idea of doing the light rail across Canada.
00:12:05.220 Not only because we...
00:12:06.460 There's been a couple of reasons as to why.
00:12:07.980 One of them going into the States, there could be some issues and things like that.
00:12:10.380 We've talked about that previously ourselves.
00:12:12.980 But the cost.
00:12:14.880 Yeah.
00:12:15.180 What would that cost to go across Canada?
00:12:16.960 This would be...
00:12:17.440 I don't know.
00:12:17.860 We'd break ourselves, right?
00:12:19.100 It's interesting because let's talk about other transit getting us across the country.
00:12:24.680 I mean, a flight, you know, on one of the airlines, one of the discount airlines for sure, you could get there for $169, $200.
00:12:34.000 If you don't take a bag, you can get there for...
00:12:37.060 If you don't take a bag and you don't have a coat, they charge you for every single thing.
00:12:43.100 You got a bag, you got to pay for carry-on.
00:12:45.100 You have two shoes on?
00:12:46.220 That's $20 each?
00:12:47.480 Yeah.
00:12:47.920 You know what it costs for a bag to get on a plane with you now?
00:12:52.800 Just your...
00:12:53.660 An extra carry-on.
00:12:54.560 It's $100, man.
00:12:55.720 Yeah.
00:12:56.200 So, okay, by the time you get to Montreal, if you have bags from Toronto, you're looking at probably $400 taxes in.
00:13:03.860 Okay.
00:13:04.940 Would that train, would a high-speed rail train be any less expensive?
00:13:09.920 I don't think so.
00:13:11.600 Because if you take a look at a Via Rail ticket, and it must be at least double that.
00:13:17.200 If you're getting there in half the time, I'm just going to guess the ticket will be twice the price.
00:13:20.900 Yeah.
00:13:21.060 So, I think we'll have a lot to pay off on this, and so they won't be discounting tickets all that often, I'm assuming.
00:13:27.520 So, let's say that it costs $250.
00:13:29.380 You're already more than taking a flight, and a flight gets you there an hour earlier.
00:13:34.560 I don't know that there's consumer appeal for this at a price point that would be comparable to air travel.
00:13:40.460 Well, it would be quicker, even though that the travel with the flight is quicker.
00:13:44.180 It still technically would be quicker with the process of getting on a train and getting off of a train,
00:13:47.840 going to a parking lot, not waiting for your luggage.
00:13:50.400 Brady, you go to Porter, let's say, for example, on Toronto Island Airport, and you're getting in a cab in Montreal an hour and a half later, at the very longest.
00:14:05.560 So, I don't know.
00:14:07.300 I wonder if there is a market for this.
00:14:09.120 And it also depends on the stations that you're arriving to, too, right?
00:14:12.220 Like, how are they headed?
00:14:13.180 Hold on.
00:14:13.540 I took a note of that.
00:14:14.540 Let's go about it.
00:14:15.580 I can't memorize this stuff, you know?
00:14:17.280 Well, it starts in Toronto.
00:14:18.620 I know that.
00:14:19.200 It ends up in Peterborough, I think, as its first stop.
00:14:22.020 And then from there on out.
00:14:23.080 The main terminal cities are Toronto and Quebec City.
00:14:25.420 Yep.
00:14:26.300 The intermediate cities would be Peterborough, Ottawa, Montreal, Laval, and Trois-Rivières, Quebec.
00:14:32.540 So.
00:14:33.500 This just sounds like a luxury line for the people in Parliament.
00:14:38.240 Well, you'll love this then.
00:14:40.780 Guess where they're going to start?
00:14:42.560 No.
00:14:43.360 Ottawa to Montreal.
00:14:44.100 So, that would be the first tie connecting two provinces, which is interesting.
00:14:53.860 You're trying to make me mad.
00:14:54.820 I'm trying to behave.
00:14:55.820 No, listen.
00:14:56.480 You can have your opinion.
00:14:58.700 I think that is.
00:15:01.820 If this transit is created for civilians to get to places easier and make life easier,
00:15:06.440 and the very first thing we're going to do is slap it in the middle of Parliament and get that figured out first.
00:15:10.100 You know what's interesting is they actually base this, it's only 200 kilometers.
00:15:14.760 Yeah.
00:15:14.840 So, you're looking at a couple of hours driving, okay.
00:15:17.000 Is this the test, like the tester?
00:15:18.920 Kind of, in the sense that it connects our capital with another major city in another province.
00:15:26.000 That's pretty major.
00:15:26.820 But the other thing is, it is one of the busiest train-use corridors in Canada.
00:15:31.660 Yeah.
00:15:31.860 Certainly in that area.
00:15:33.960 So, it's already used.
00:15:34.980 I think there's already a market for it with the federal offices and the government offices.
00:15:41.680 That would make the average Canadian happy to hear that, though.
00:15:44.240 That we're not using civilians as detesters.
00:15:46.280 We're using the politicians.
00:15:47.780 Ah, that's pretty good.
00:15:49.240 I don't know.
00:15:50.500 They will be the first to get on.
00:15:52.100 Trust me.
00:15:52.820 If it's snakes on a plane, we'll find out from our politicians first.
00:15:56.840 But it's interesting because that first corridor is an interesting test.
00:16:01.980 If all they did was build that, I bet they could get away with just doing that.
00:16:05.540 I think this...
00:16:07.040 That might be the ultimate plan.
00:16:08.560 I hate to say it, but...
00:16:10.060 I don't want to be that guy.
00:16:11.180 Like, I feel like my tinfoil hat is always on.
00:16:13.340 I don't know if that's a tinfoil hat moment because if they build this and it seems like
00:16:18.040 it was a difficult build, they'll have to rethink the extensions on either side.
00:16:22.700 But they'll keep that running.
00:16:24.560 Most likely.
00:16:26.220 It's interesting.
00:16:27.300 It is.
00:16:27.620 Well, look, if it's operated like the Go, we're in trouble.
00:16:30.840 Certainly, I do love a Via Rail trip.
00:16:33.420 Via is awesome.
00:16:34.620 You know, so I would love to do the high-speed train.
00:16:37.980 A high-speed train from here to Quebec would be an interesting trip.
00:16:43.420 And I say that the second that, you know, that they do this, we're one of the first groups
00:16:47.720 on there just to see what it's like.
00:16:49.620 I also hate air travel now.
00:16:51.480 It's absolutely...
00:16:52.000 It's no fun.
00:16:52.740 It is horrible.
00:16:54.080 It's not comfortable.
00:16:55.180 No.
00:16:55.520 You get on a Via Rail and you're like nicely sad.
00:16:58.260 But even if you pay for business class.
00:16:59.240 You want something nice to eat.
00:17:00.780 Oh, business class?
00:17:01.940 No, it's still...
00:17:02.820 That's like the way economy used to be.
00:17:05.060 And business class on a train is classy.
00:17:08.200 Oh, yeah.
00:17:08.220 Business class on a train is awesome.
00:17:09.520 Rent your own cart.
00:17:10.700 Ooh.
00:17:11.420 Throw a little party in there.
00:17:12.260 You can do that even?
00:17:13.240 We're lucky we're not turning the party lights on right now.
00:17:15.460 It's to show what we like.
00:17:16.500 I want my birthday party on a train next year.
00:17:18.740 Toronto to Ottawa.
00:17:19.720 We'll go meet up with the Prime Minister and go for drinks.
00:17:22.460 The GoFundMe has been started.
00:17:24.140 Oh, there we go.
00:17:25.400 There it is.
00:17:26.040 All right.
00:17:26.400 There's Mike's party on the train.
00:17:28.300 V-Rail.
00:17:28.580 Thanks for joining us, Brady.
00:17:29.540 Thanks for the chat.
00:17:30.260 I appreciate it.
00:17:31.220 Put your comments in.
00:17:32.320 Don't forget to follow and share it with a friend.
00:17:35.780 We appreciate you being there.
00:17:36.760 Thanks.