The Type 212CD Submarine： What Does This Mean For Canada？
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Summary
In this episode, we discuss the new contracts being awarded to the Canadian Armed Forces for 12 new diesel-electric attack submarines, and what they could mean for the future of our navy. We also hear from Jim Lang, the Chief of Staff to the Prime Minister's staff.
Transcript
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Well, right now, we'd be among the very best in NATO.
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Right now, once these are all online, after the United States,
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the only other NATO country with this many submarines would be Turkey.
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This would put us ahead of the Royal Navy and a lot of other countries in NATO.
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So we become a player in the Pacific Rim and in the North Atlantic.
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Look at tplmedia.ca slash local, and we may just be there.
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If we're not, we're likely coming to you with a localized version of what we're doing here right now.
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Yesterday afternoon, as we record this, Prime Minister Carney announced a new leveling up of our military.
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And, of course, we've been hearing that that was part of the defense strategy for our nation.
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We're starting to see orders for procurement and understand what kind of military equipment we've got our eye on.
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To talk to us more about this, our very own most knowledgeable about the military guy on the staff is Jim Lang.
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I'm good, Mike. Nicely played. Well done. Give me some of that.
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It was the largest contract ever awarded in the history of the Canadian Armed Forces.
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Now, a byproduct of that is the size of the contract with the 12 submarines involved,
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but also the cost of military equipment has grown exponentially over the decades.
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So these are 12 type 212 or 212 CD submarines built by TKMS of Germany.
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The hulls are a diamond shape as opposed to the traditional shape that you see submarines.
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or a diamond shape submarines generally have a exactly i guess an egg all rounded yes yeah sort
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of bottom and this is a diamond shape it's built for extreme stealth it's extremely difficult to
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find in the ocean which is good it can operate with a crew of only 28 sailors because of all
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the automation and because of the use of cutting edge hydrogen fuel cells and air independent
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propulsion it can stay submerged for 40 days so once it put perspective on that on average what
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is a submarine with this kind of crew able to do well it's not the crew the problem is current it's
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a diesel electric submarine but a new version and the current versions you can only stay submerged
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for so long and then they have to surface and is that a much how much is the average uh in that
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say 10 days to two weeks wow so this is a significant difference it's enormous so
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because of the technology because it's so advanced and because the canadian navy has never had
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anything like this they could leave halifax operate under the ice pack of the arctic circle
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for weeks at a time without any problems and come back so this is a problem that canada has had for
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decades that the u.s the russian and other navies could operate nuclear submarines which don't need
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to surface at will under the ice pack of the arctic ocean and in sovereign waters of canada
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now canada has a submarine that can do it as well what's the advantage to having a submarine
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that operates diesel hydrogen with this new system as a diesel electric as opposed to
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nuclear should we have maybe taken a look at nuclear subs or is it so cost prohibitive and so
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little coverage with that much spend this was a better idea to me it's the cost involved it's
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a technology the canadian navy has never worked with the u.s navy has been working with nuclear
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powered submarines and aircraft carriers since the 1960s the british of well as well and some
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other countries but especially the russians but canada's never had this we don't have anyone
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trained in it we don't have it we don't have any that the knowledge or technology could we train
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up to it of course anything's possible but it takes time and as the commanders of the canadian
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navy are saying you know monday and halifax like we need these submarines yesterday right currently
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we have a fleet of four secondhand used victoria-class submarines only one of which is
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seaworthy right now and they have to macgyver these things as long as possible to the first
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tranche of submarines are built at best case scenario canada would have four of these brand
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new submarines in the fleet by 2034 that's the best case scenario wow because of the
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the complication the difficulty the expertise in going to building these submarines it's not like
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they can turn them around no they're in a few months they're not on the line someplace exactly
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okay exactly and is there any sort of specialized engineering that that we are adding to this that
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you can think of uh that would make it sort of a specialized build for us very much so there
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there's a few things involved the the sonar technology in the old you know movies you hear
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the guy exactly i hear that in my head all day long jim they have systems passive sonar that
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can allow them to identify ships and submarines from great distances without any noise involved
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that means the other person can't find out that someone's stalking them and how stealth are these
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apparently by all accounts they are virtually impossible to discover in the water because of
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the design of the hull and when it's running on the hydrogen fuel cells it's not making any noise
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the problem with a nuclear reactor is they could dial it down as much as possible and go slow but
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there's a hiss because it's always got the steam going so eventually you will discover the sound
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of the machinery yeah but you can't with this so it'll be fascinating for the canadian how many
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are we doing 12 12 in total so it'll be six in each coast right okay and where do we fit in do
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you think globally with uh this technology well right now we'd be among the very best in nato
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Right now, once these are all online, after the United States,
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the only other NATO country with this many submarines would be Turkey.
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This would put us ahead of the Royal Navy and a lot of other countries in NATO.
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So we become a player in the Pacific Rim and in the North Atlantic for NATO.
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And the great thing about, because Germany are building these submarines for Norway and Canada,
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so germans and canadians and norwegian sailors can all work together and train each other so by the
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time these submarines are delivered the canadian sailors will have spent time in the german and
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norwegian navies training on their version of these submarines to the point that it'll be a
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pretty seamless transition mike that's really interesting and then the ability for and how
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many subs uh will norway take i believe they're doing six okay so combined you've got 18 subs able
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to of this variety and germany's doing at least nine so it'll be 27 between the three countries
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so then so nato just really did a major up upgrade and overhaul really of their observance
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worldwide of what's happening below the surface which is interesting to me because so much of our
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undiscovered or i think a lot can happen under the surface of the water yeah it's just too easy
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to uh especially for the average citizen to even comprehend how much when you say that you know
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indefinitely a nuclear sub can be under the surface until they run out of food that's the
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only time they have to surface i mean that's a really that's a wild oh yeah perspective on how
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we protect ourselves uh over land seems like an easier game to manage as we head underwater it
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seems like the world is getting better at doing this and mike what ukraine has proven to everyone
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that if you're above ground they can find you with a drone yeah they can find you and destroy you
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and that means a surface ship or a tank or a truck it can be discovered and destroyed but if you're
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spending 40 days submerged in the ocean it's a lot harder to find you how do you think this helps our
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or hinders or does it do nothing for our relationship with the u.s well it actually
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helps it but the one thing the u.s like doing on their exercises is having a mixed fleet of ships
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and submarines currently all the american submarines are nuclear powered so they know
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that some of their future you know people their enemies the people they may go to combat with
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have a mixture of nuclear and diesel electric so they like to train trying to find or escape from
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diesel electric submarines so their crews know what to look for and how to look for them because
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if they just work with each other that doesn't help them they may get to a point where wait a
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second we're going up against an enemy who's a diesel electric running on their batteries we
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can't find them because we've not trained for that so i think it helps for the americans but
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more importantly helps for nato and this is a major win for mark carney and the liberals this is
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there's no way that peer poly of the conservatives could criticize something they've been asking for
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for years so he's taken the power away from poly there's poly if he tries to criticize what
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carney's done or the decision of the armed forces or the announcement by mcginty the minister of
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national defense and how they're going forward with this cutting edge never before seen in the
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canadian navy he would look like an idiot so i think he's just got to shut up and take a seat
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for this one i think the only blowback is going to be why aren't we building them here at home
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because we've not an expert we've we can build surface ships as well as anyone on the planet
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and we've proven it time and time again and we are building a world-class river