00:00:14.500I am delighted, as always, to be joined by Steve Swift, who gives us the scope of things happening in the UK,
00:00:22.340as many things have been happening in the UK, many parts of Europe, certainly here in Canada.
00:00:27.160The world is in a tizzy, as it were, and England is experiencing that in its own very special way right now at the top parliamentary levels.
00:00:37.620Less than two years after winning a landslide election, Keir Starmer is taking his leave.
00:00:44.520Steve, thanks for joining us. How have you been?
00:00:57.160It's an extraordinary situation and we're in a kind of, well, nothing's happening at the moment, so we're in a bit of a honeymoon period, but it's kind of, people are thinking, just look what we could have. Just look at the delights we could have. But it's a bit strange. It is our sixth prime minister in, is it 15, 10 years?
00:01:25.040Maybe I'm wrong to correct us in the...
00:01:27.080But yeah, you've certainly had a high turnover there.
00:01:31.060You have more turnover in your parliament than we do at Tim Hortons here on a staffing front on average.
00:01:37.620But put that aside, let's try to examine it for a minute.
00:01:40.660I mean, Starmer came in like guns a-blazing, huge support, the nation expecting so many things.
00:01:49.000And like I say, less than two years later, what did this? Was it was this personality? Was this actual policy? Well, how did we end up here, Steve?
00:01:59.440Well, I think the people of Britain forgot what they voted for, which was, let's just get the Tories and Rishi Sunak out. You know, they wanted somebody who was a manager. So, you know, they wanted a 1945 Clement Attlee manager. He's nothing like that. But they wanted somebody who could steady the ship.
00:02:23.420They didn't want that kind of, well, the Tories have had so many different, different prime ministers. We need somebody who can just take it easy. He got a massive, a massive majority in the House. He always looked to me, I think I've mentioned this to you before, that like he was faintly apologetic, and that he was worried that something was going to happen.
00:02:47.300and I think it's certainly on my social media feed feeds I generally talk to people who wouldn't
00:02:58.320be fans of the Labour Party and wouldn't be fans of Keir Starmer and the general feeling is that
00:03:04.500he doesn't do anything he hasn't done anything he's done an enormous amount and the party has
00:03:11.180done an enormous amount I mean the list is huge but they've just not got the word out
00:03:15.960and the general dissatisfaction of can't feel that in my pocket,
00:03:21.820can't, you know, and events as well, you know, wars and that kind of thing.
00:08:20.960Most of the items you just mentioned, yes, are live issues for us, but linked to migration and reform, being a party that's coming up from behind, not doing as well as they thought they might.
00:08:39.760But we'll talk more about that maybe later on. But the economy, housing, jobs linked, seen through the prism of the kind of immigration situation, migration situation.
00:08:56.760And with a really, a really kind of polarized reform on one side, Greens on the other, you know, acceptable right wing, acceptable left wing and Labour and the Tories in the middle with a two party system.
00:09:14.960Okay, there's Lib Dems, but with a two party system that isn't really working at the moment.
00:09:21.160so as far as the economy goes we have a a um a gdp that's not performing it's performing badly
00:09:30.200but it's not performing as badly as some other countries we could describe or we could compare
00:09:34.600to um but things like needs um young people not in education training or employment um that's huge
00:09:44.200We're getting reports from actually ex-Blairite cabinet ministers
00:09:50.040saying education is not good, needs are not good.
00:09:52.420And there's a feeling of police being underfunded for many years.
00:10:01.220So there's a feeling of unsafety, certainly in cities.
00:10:05.340I think that up against the migration issues in Britain,
00:10:08.420almost immediately you saw SWAT armed police in streets over protest.
00:10:14.200You saw outrage from the police in not having the right resources to manage such an increase in population.
00:10:24.520The migration, and it's very difficult because you can quickly be labeled a racist to say that migration is an issue.
00:10:31.020But it's not just an issue for the original residents of that country.0.82
00:10:35.600When you set up immigration en masse like this,1.00
00:10:39.560and we've experienced it in Canada,1.00
00:10:41.240you don't have the right resources for the people that you've invited to be here.
00:10:46.160And you leave them in a lurch once they arrive.
00:10:49.780And it costs everything that they can to get there.
00:10:52.680They make every move they can in their life financially to make that change.
00:10:57.480There is no turning back for many of these people,
00:10:59.920and what they've arrived to is a difficult scenario.
00:11:02.460Yes and it's a conversation that should be had and it's a conversation that's not being had so certainly reform and parties that would seem to be further right than reform like Restore are having that conversation and are using that area or rather not using but claiming that area extremely well.
00:11:29.820Certainly, Labour doesn't really want to talk about it, is the perception.
00:11:33.720And we haven't had any kind of, let's sit down and talk about this then.
00:11:38.520I don't know whether that will be different in the future.
00:15:03.540We have a show at the moment called Question Time,
00:15:05.560In which there's a panel of experts, experts, some politicians, some business people, some social media people, perhaps, and the audience ask questions.
00:15:14.380And I've asked one, I've been on it. So you get picked and they go and see you and they talk to you and all of that.
00:15:20.880But it's where you can just ask your question. You can't be with us.
00:15:26.020And in some ways, I appreciate that people want to talk.
00:15:31.000They want to be able to get somebody in a corridor afterwards and say, can we have a chat?
00:15:35.560about what you said because i'm on your level and there is a feeling that we're up here in the in
00:15:41.960the lofty heights of politics and you're just asking a question and you can go back to your
00:15:47.320job on monday so i appreciate that social media is a great leveler in that respect but what it
00:15:53.240does it does come in equal measure with sorry go on it comes in equal measure with that echo chamber
00:16:02.040danger. Yeah, it does. I mean, it, it, it identifies, I mean, it, it, it strengthens
00:16:09.380your view because you know, one, I will try and talk to people who are not of my political stripe
00:16:16.680and say, but why do you say that? Or you've, you've quoted a poll here. Where's it from?
00:16:23.720And sometimes people will come back to me and, and, and tell me where I can go. And sometimes
00:16:28.640people will say oh okay well let's just have a chat about that but um generally you get or if you
00:16:35.520make a comment about something then people will pile on you because they're all mates and that's
00:16:41.040understandable but social media just strengthens your view no matter what it is no matter how far
00:16:48.160out there it could be that's really dangerous yeah my algorithm shows me some pretty pretty
00:16:53.680far out there stuff and and uh i think to myself am i believing this is this why my algorithm
00:16:59.280yeah you have to be uh you have to be careful you know it's interesting uh just as an aside
00:17:04.160a couple of months ago i had a conversation with a uh a notable liberal politician in canada and
00:17:12.400uh we were talking about mark carney and uh the successes of mark carney in their opinion and
00:17:19.120you know so i'm actually quite impressed with some of the things that i see the prime minister
00:17:23.680do and other things i question but we got talking about how the previous government
00:17:29.120created an anti-woke movement in canada and you know that was me just being echo chamberish with
00:17:37.040this person but she said to me what do you mean by woke what is woke you have to define that for
00:17:43.120me mike because i don't really think everything we do is woke and i don't really like that phrase
00:17:49.120because it's almost a label that discredits you and i'll be honest with you steve by the end of
00:17:54.800the conversation with that liberal individual i felt a little embarrassed because i felt that i
00:17:58.880had echo chambered a little bit myself and when it came to conversation what she said to me was
00:18:05.280really beautiful she said well i understand where you're coming from do you understand where i'm
00:18:09.920coming from what an interesting position to be in you know so rarely yes and and we don't get that
00:18:20.480and we have spoken before about if this was in the pub you would have that conversation or in a bar or
00:18:26.480you know on a walk you'd have that conversation and with your mates and if you said something
00:18:30.880that was out there they'd say come on mate defend your position but you're right there's that there
00:18:35.680are certain shorthand semiotic phrases um the ones i come across i mean woke is one of them
00:18:43.040there are two more socialist and working class and so i say what is working class then am i working
00:18:50.080class am i you know i was i was born to working parents but you know they earned a lot of money
00:18:57.760but they were working and they worked shifts you know is is is a person who works in a steel
00:19:03.840a steel company who earns 80 000 pounds a year is that person still working class is it about
00:19:09.360cultural is it about aspirational um but these things are used as a basis and i always try to
00:19:16.640say well let's unpick it what does it mean but that shorthand isn't helpful because it becomes
00:19:22.560a slogan an attack yeah i'm sorry steve i was guilty of it i caught myself but it was pointed
00:19:28.560out to me but you're right uh it is interesting when you when we start to do this it does discredit
00:19:35.040the conversation okay let's get into it so who is going to be the next ruling party of england
00:19:45.760drumroll please it will be the prince across the water well actually not across the water
00:19:50.880across the m25 um andy burnham it will be him now he's tried twice before to be labour leader
00:20:01.360failed both times he has been the mayor of greater manchester for some years incredibly popular not
00:20:10.880with me but incredibly popular in general so i'm in the minority i would say um he's
00:20:17.840He's become the MP of Ashton in Makerfield,
00:22:44.540and people expected him to stand, and he didn't.
00:22:47.800And I suspect he's spoken to Burnham, you know,
00:22:51.380in the greasy pole of politics to say, what can I have?
00:22:56.180But what really did, I think, for Starmer
00:22:58.680was John Healy, who's an excellent politician,
00:23:03.460Who I've met a few times and always been impressed. He was our defence secretary. He resigned on a point of principle because he said that the new defence deal, monetary deal, wouldn't be enough. I think that's what finally did for Starmer. It's always those, the things you don't expect, isn't it? So I think it's that that did for him. Burnham should be, he should walk in. He should walk in within the next two weeks, I think it is.
00:23:31.860Is this the Labour leader that people expected to have, maybe?
00:26:54.720Because I take your point entirely because there's very little else to work with.
00:27:00.600You know, there's very little economically to work with.
00:27:02.540You know, it's difficult worldwide, difficult in Canada, difficult in the States, difficult in the UK, so there's very little to work with. You can't say, look at all these trillions of pounds I bought in new money. Can't say that. So you might as well say, look, I'm a nice guy. And he's, Burnham is the kind of guy who, kind of bloke, who you feel you can go for a pint with a bit like Nigel Farage.
00:27:29.900He's the anti Nigel Farage obviously, but he does have that kind of come on
00:27:35.020I'm just gonna go and we'll have a we'll have a point and a chat and we'll have a laugh
00:27:38.360And you'll feel a lot better coming away than you did going in
00:27:43.020Well, I I'm very excited myself to see what happens. What did you say two weeks now?
00:27:48.780Yes, I think it's I think it's two weeks. I think it's yeah, I think I mean you should go in unchallenged
00:27:59.900I know there are reports that Angie Rayner is coming back, not in a cabinet position, but that she's working with him to deliver housing, you know, because he's made some big pledges.
00:28:15.140And one of the main pledges he's made, Mike, is that he has said, because he's a Manchester bloke, he's Wigan and Lee, he's Liverpool, he's Manchester, he's Greater Manchester Mayor.
00:28:28.140And he said that number 10, there will be a number 10 of the north.
00:28:33.540And it will be in Greater, in Manchester, actually, not just Greater Manchester, but in Manchester.
00:28:38.700So certain parts of it will go to Manchester.
00:28:41.660Gordon Brown tried to do this and succeeded he sent parts of the civil service to Leeds
00:28:49.380and it it really which is a northern town and it really it made it it made that that town grow
00:28:57.120hugely um and if he's I mean it's it's it's an idea whose time has come so number 10 being in
00:29:05.600the north and all of that would be something a bit special and people it's that vision thing
00:29:10.500isn't it he's made big comments and big comments about house building and all of that with very
00:29:15.820little very little detail but you just announce it people go that sounds great and look at his
00:29:23.200eyelashes aren't they lovely you know and all of that you know he's got those big thick eyelashes
00:29:29.120those blue eyes people go andy so i think that he can he could be our leader look at him he's
00:29:35.260Well, you know what? In Canada, we did that. We certainly in Ontario, north of us, there's Sudbury, there's Thunder Bay and in different parts of Canada that are fairly remote or rural.
00:29:49.460Our government at one point said, OK, we're going to set up part of our bureaucracy in these areas and and, you know, run major offices for in Sudbury is the CRA, the Canada Revenue Agency.
00:30:04.220And, you know, all of these, Ottawa has a huge amount of government buildings.