True Patriot Love

00:00:00.000 Hey everyone, welcome back to TPL. I'm Shaliza Bacchus. Don't forget you can find us on social

00:00:08.740 media, every podcast platform at TPL Media. So today we are going to discuss something that's

00:00:14.600 been in the headlines for days, something that has shaken the entire country. So on February 10th,

00:00:20.840 18-year-old Jessie Van Rootsdelaar shot and killed six people at Tumblr Ridge Secondary

00:00:25.820 School in British Columbia and another two people at her residence before turning the 0.84

00:00:30.420 gun on herself. All eight victims have been identified. They are the shooter's mother

00:00:36.020 and brother, 39-year-old Jennifer Strong and 11-year-old Emmett Jacobs, 12-year-old Kylie

00:00:42.320 Smith, 12-year-old Takaria Lampert, 12-year-old Zoe Benoit, 12-year-old Abel Mwanza, 13-year-old

00:00:50.660 Ezekiel Shofield and 39-year-old Shonda Avigwana Durand. Approximately 25 others were injured.

00:00:58.660 This is Canada's deadliest mass shooting in nearly four decades. So today we are going

00:01:04.060 to dive into how tragic events, especially mass violence like this, affect us mentally,

00:01:09.660 emotionally, and as a society. Joining me to discuss this is our resident psychotherapist

00:01:14.580 from Horizon Within, Sim Chhabra. Welcome back to TPL. 0.99

00:01:17.580 Thank you. Good to see you.

00:01:19.580 Okay, so Sim, there's a lot to unpack here. I often find myself thinking, how did we get

00:01:26.980 here? And I think that's what a lot of Canadians are feeling right now. And I think this goes

00:01:32.200 beyond the town of Tumblr Ridge, like the entire country is in mourning. So I have to ask, what

00:01:38.540 was your reaction when the news broke?

00:01:40.540 I feel my reaction was similar to every one of us here. It was shocking and puzzling. Same

00:01:48.100 questions like, you know, this is something that we see in the news that happens somewhere

00:01:53.760 else versus something that happens at home. And then to kind of reference the names of the

00:02:01.660 people that lost their lives, it really kind of numbs you, because you're trying to go,

00:02:09.660 you know, they were 12 years old, or not even had an opportunity to experience life because,

00:02:16.660 you know, under 12, you're still considered a kid. Yeah. So yeah.

00:02:20.660 And okay, so you wrote this piece called What Now? Beyond Thoughts and Prayers. And you talk

00:02:25.660 about the way tragic events like this kind of shake our sense of safety and trigger a lot

00:02:32.340 of emotions. So for our viewers and listeners who may not have been there personally, they're

00:02:38.240 not necessarily directly affected by this. What is happening psychologically when people

00:02:44.360 hear about occurrences like this? There are a few layers that kind of occur immediately.

00:02:51.420 The first one is what we experience is the shock of it, because it's not a common tragic event

00:02:59.660 that we as Canadians are used to seeing in our news on a daily basis. And I don't mean to

00:03:05.540 diminish our southerly neighbors, but shootings are a common conversation for them. And something

00:03:13.680 like this would have an impact would have a response similar to what we are having. The difference

00:03:22.680 is, for them, it's an occurrence that's part of the fabric of society, because they have

00:03:29.300 lax amendments for gun control and all that. In terms of what we go through and what the blog

00:03:38.020 kind of points to is, is that, you know, fear is the primary emotional response that kind

00:03:47.800 of permeates from this, because now all of a sudden you're like, if this happened there,

00:03:52.120 this could happen here. If this could happen here, then what is safety? What is, what is what?

00:03:57.480 That, which then kind of goes into anger because it's now attacking a sense of structure and belief

00:04:06.060 that you have of how society operates. And, you know, this being a school, it hits home differently

00:04:13.860 versus, you know, if this was a mass shooting at another event. So you'd still have loss of life.

00:04:20.600 You would still have the questions that come from it. But the fact that, you know, this was in a place

00:04:26.840 where in our minds and as a society, we feel is the safest place to be, because when you're in school,

00:04:34.880 it's safe. And then to then have this experience there, what it then translates to is having outrage.

00:04:42.480 And that's where we are now as a society that, you know, we are now expressing our outrage

00:04:49.320 to words and experience that's made us fearful and angry.

00:04:54.480 Absolutely. And I think I've seen like reaction from all of the parents who have lost their children.

00:05:00.080 And a lot of them are saying exactly what you said. Send my kid to school to be safe.

00:05:04.640 And so with that being said, what are some longer term effects that we see for the families of the

00:05:11.060 deceased, the community members? And this is a very tight knit community. Everybody knows everybody

00:05:15.220 in this little town and then the wider community as well and the country.

00:05:19.900 So when events like this happen, it's on the proximity of your experience to the event.

00:05:30.100 So unfortunately, you know, you have the mother that's deceased now and you have the stepbrother

00:05:36.220 that's deceased. But if from what I've read is correct, there was another step sibling that survived

00:05:46.180 the shooting. So that if we use that as the closest to this experience for them, it's going to be the

00:05:56.620 most difficult because one, they're going to always be associated with the sibling that

00:06:03.100 left. Two, they've equally lost other members of their personal family.

00:06:10.380 Once we take it to the next level out, which is our social environment or our

00:06:17.420 people that we interact with. So this could be extended family.

00:06:20.420 This could be our social fabric.

00:06:23.420 Those people, so like, you know, they had cousins, aunts, uncles, brothers, sisters.

00:06:28.700 That's the mother and going out. They're going to experience it with a different sense of pain.

00:06:36.860 Once you come into the community, Tumblr BC, Tumblr Ridge, they're going to have a hard time

00:06:44.940 because it's only 1200 people. And it's going to be something for them to come to understanding and then

00:06:52.940 move past. As far as the country's concerned, unfortunately, it's still the next news cycle.

00:07:01.420 That's where the rest of the country is. Next week, there'll be something else and the country will

00:07:07.580 just kind of go in that direction. And all the intensity and attention that's been given now

00:07:15.980 will go there. Well, then let's talk about processing it then in the town of Tumblr Ridge.

00:07:24.540 How, how, how do you even go about processing this? It is very overwhelming. It's scary. I'm sure

00:07:32.060 everyone who goes to that school now has some sort of PTSD. Right. So I like how you were able to

00:07:40.140 catalog it to PTSD because that is the left, the actual impact that we're going to have to live

00:07:48.540 with. It's, it's the, the experience of the trauma and how it recycles through our mind. So when it comes

00:07:55.740 to the community, uh, one of the ways to address that would be then to kind of allow people to organize

00:08:05.260 organize and organize is like, you know, it's not a structural organize, but just catalog. I think

00:08:10.380 catalog is a better word to catalog their emotions because you have an experience that was unexpected

00:08:18.060 and you had the experience in a place which is absolutely unexpected because this is something that

00:08:26.700 happens in big cities, right? Uh, not in small towns and not in rural small towns. It's really narrow now.

00:08:34.460 Um, so for them as a community, uh, they have to kind of like go, okay, um, we've had a traumatic

00:08:43.820 experience, experienced differently based on how we were connected to both the shooter and the victims

00:08:54.060 of that shooter, of the event. And because it's a small town, it's basically 0.5 degree of separation,

00:09:01.500 right? Versus living in a city where it's like four degrees or whatever. So for them, um, it would help

00:09:08.860 them be able to have spaces where they can share, uh, find a way to understand, find a way to heal

00:09:19.020 and in a way, keep the city slickers out because there are people that are going to be opportunists and

00:09:26.300 say that they're helping, but they're going to go in there and they may cause more harm in terms of

00:09:30.860 mental support, making sure that they have channels where they can have conversations about the

00:09:38.700 experience, but aren't being, uh, pressured to make meaning out of it. It's just free talk.

00:09:46.940 Okay. And then how do you think people would benefit from therapy then? And how do they take

00:09:52.860 that step into saying, into accepting that maybe that's something they might need?

00:09:58.220 The way therapy comes into play, it would be more in the sense that they know they have someone that

00:10:05.500 they can speak to. So it may not necessarily be the process of what therapy is, but the fact that

00:10:12.460 there is an individual that they can go to know that they come from a background that

00:10:21.500 caters to mental distress and they have tools that will help them find meaning. So one of the things

00:10:29.740 that comes from such experiences is our existential question of meaning of life and what are we here for

00:10:36.540 and dah, dah, dah, dah. So there are modalities out there that a therapist can use that can help you

00:10:44.940 find a way to one, formulate your question, help you regulate it, and then kind of go, okay, where,

00:10:51.980 where is your sense of, um, distrust or where is your sense of, um, where you are feeling, okay,

00:11:03.180 life doesn't make sense. Or coming back to this PTSD as someone that's sitting in Ontario, in Toronto,

00:11:10.380 experiencing something there, um, kind of go, okay, maybe I have to go to school and, you know, I'm a

00:11:18.940 13 year old going to an inner city school and now I'm carrying them. They have an equal PTSD from

00:11:24.540 experience that wasn't direct to them. That is there. Those are the places where therapy can help

00:11:29.740 because now for that individual, you could be like, okay, we understand that your belief has

00:11:36.620 rationale, but there's also an irrational in there because you're thinking it may happen here. And

00:11:42.380 that's what's causing you the PTSD from an experience that you heard about versus experience.

00:11:48.620 That makes sense. That makes sense. And then I'm sure they're going to be the people who think they

00:11:53.980 don't need help, but they're still traumatized in some way. What effects would that take on someone

00:12:00.540 who's just kind of, I don't want to say pretending it didn't happen, but kind of maybe come, come,

00:12:06.220 compartmentalize, that's the word compartmentalizing it. And then what?

00:12:12.380 So it will, it will surface itself in different ways. So say, for example, you know, you have an

00:12:18.540 individual that processes emotion by compartmentalizing how they process it. It's going to

00:12:26.380 cause a distress. So for that person, all of a sudden they may notice that they are doing whatever

00:12:32.060 they do to regulate with greater intensity. So to give you an example, uh, look at any substance use,

00:12:40.860 and I don't mean substance use as in like your pots and stuff like that. I'm talking substance use is

00:12:47.820 as simple as sugar, which is the most image substance use to the most complex.

00:12:56.300 So take this person for example, and now all of a sudden they experience this, it's causing them

00:13:00.860 distress. They feel that it's, it's a non-issue and they have control over life. So we've changing

00:13:07.340 nothing there, but all of a sudden they may notice that, you know, I'm my intake of sugar has gone up.

00:13:16.140 I tend to crave more. That's, that's your distress signal showing up somewhere else. So it will show up.

00:13:24.060 But now all of a sudden, now you could be like, wait a minute, there's no reason for me to consume

00:13:32.220 so much more. Well, that's your anxiety. That's your distress. It's surfacing there, but that's your tool

00:13:37.900 to regulate. So you're using more of it to regulate. So now you could, then now you could take a step

00:13:43.900 back and go, maybe I need to talk to somebody or I continue on my path. But if you consume more sugar,

00:13:50.460 you're going to see it through diabetes, you're going to do the weight gain. You're going to,

00:13:53.500 so now all of a sudden you can't stay on that same path. And that's how you would know.

00:13:59.180 That's interesting that, and it's just so complex. It's just a lot to unpack. And I think

00:14:03.420 it's just going to take some time for everyone to really understand and grasp what happened.

00:14:08.300 Right. And, you know, because our minds want to find meaning. It's designed to find meaning.

00:14:17.580 When you have tragic events like this, that you could try to find ways to put it together,

00:14:23.980 but it'll never make sense because it happened in a way that isn't about making sense. Because,

00:14:32.060 you know, you could go to that one extreme and say, okay, you know, all these qualifiers

00:14:37.900 justify why they did it, but it still doesn't justify it because you have lives that

00:14:44.620 are lost that didn't have to be in it. Well, you could try to rationalize that. You're always going

00:14:50.860 to hit a clash. You're always going to go, okay, what am I doing with this? How am I going to do with

00:14:58.460 it? And then what happens is eventually the mind just discards it. And because that doesn't make

00:15:04.300 sense and it's causing distress, you're like, we're just, it's a natural response. It's not a,

00:15:08.940 you don't care response. It's a natural response that happens. So, you know, how do you get past

00:15:15.580 this as a society? And that's why I kind of like said, beyond thoughts and prayers, because

00:15:20.700 we can express it, but if you do nothing with it, there's a non-value, but because we don't know how

00:15:29.260 to process it. And this is where, you know, I, I agree with you in the advocacy of seeking help.

00:15:36.380 Therapy doesn't necessarily mean I have a problem. What therapy means, and it's, it's just a word.

00:15:42.460 What therapy means is I have an opportunity to express and work with somebody that has an

00:15:51.340 understanding of some of the parameters and, and through psychology that then I can give shape

00:15:57.820 and meaning to. And once I can give it shape and meaning, then I could be like, okay, how is it

00:16:03.580 directly related to me? And how is it a projection that I have to present out and make sense of?

00:16:09.980 And okay, now I want to talk about not only the mental health of the community, but the mental

00:16:14.700 health of the shooter specifically. So according to the RCMP, there have been previous mental health

00:16:20.060 calls made at the shooter's residence. So if you didn't know this about the shooter,

00:16:24.140 Jesse was born a male and transitioned to female. So a lot of false claims now are spreading around

00:16:30.860 social media in the wake of this tragedy. So what type of mental health tool is this taking on the

00:16:36.140 LGBTQ plus community? They're already in mental distress because they are competing in a opinionated 1.00

00:16:45.260 society to begin with. We get, we are very quick to marginalize. And the reason why we're quick to

00:16:54.140 marginalize is because we're trying to find meaning for ourselves. So to give you, to go back to this

00:17:00.860 example, well, they, they were my neighbor. They were this, they were that X values, but I'm not them.

00:17:12.380 So if I'm not them, who am I? Right. And, or if I am me and they're not me, but they have to be different.

00:17:19.660 So either way you're trying to find meaning. So that means you're gonna find something that

00:17:25.420 differentiates you because if you find things that make you similar, then all of a sudden you

00:17:29.340 can be like, could I also be, would I also have, well, you're not bringing that inside yourself because

00:17:35.100 God forbid you do that one, it's just gonna drive you nuts. But two, you're trying to find meaning and

00:17:40.220 usually we externalize our meaning. Right. So coming back to this whole typecasting of, you know, it's a

00:17:46.940 community or it's this or it's that it's a very incorrect response, uh, from society as large.

00:17:54.300 And this is not the first time we've erred in this regard. We've always erred in this regard.

00:17:59.900 Um, 9-11 is a good example. Uh, it's a fantastic example because of an entire community that got

00:18:06.380 marginalized because of an act by perpetrators that belong to that ethnicity. Right. So it's, it's, 0.63

00:18:14.540 so when I look at it through that lens, uh, it's a very unfruitful approach, uh, to marginalize the

00:18:24.380 community based on what they identify with. Now, with that being said, I think there is some truth

00:18:31.980 in the fact that, you know, melt mental illness is statistically higher amongst the LGBTQ plus community.

00:18:39.580 So how, if you are identifying with that community, how do you reach for help, ask for help and make

00:18:46.140 yourself okay so you don't end up in this kind of mindset? Um, that's a very good question and I

00:18:52.380 appreciate that. So when it comes to being within that community, um, understanding that getting assistance

00:19:02.060 and guidance is a tool that you must have in your tool belt, uh, more so than anyone else. Uh, the

00:19:13.180 reason being is because one, you're trying to translate what it is that you are experiencing,

00:19:20.060 feeling and identifying with. And the other is how it's translating it into the world and how that

00:19:26.220 feedback comes back in. Um, it's, it's a little bit more complex. Uh, it requires assistance. It

00:19:33.100 doesn't mean that it's getting, you're getting, um, validated. It doesn't mean that you are in the right.

00:19:40.860 What it means is that you need a space to be able to think and understand and recognize that my

00:19:51.900 mental distress is not only typecasted to what or how I identify myself to or with,

00:20:02.300 but the underlying issues. So to give you, um, an understanding, when you look at when, um, Jesse

00:20:09.820 chose to go through conversion, they were 12 or 13 at the time. When you look at brain development,

00:20:18.380 this is where it's very important to understand. So if anybody that's going to jump on the bandwagon

00:20:23.020 need to understand how the brain develops and the brain develops in stages because the brain comes

00:20:29.660 or becomes active in certain phases. So under 12, your prefrontal cortex is not as active as

00:20:39.660 the other part of the brain, your preteen brain. That's why they call it a preteen brain is because

00:20:44.780 your prefrontal cortex is now actually firing and you're putting meaning to what you're experiencing.

00:20:53.020 So by the time you hit your teen years, and this is similar to both genders, right? And then you,

00:21:01.500 you include the trans community, right? But there's biologically still,

00:21:05.500 they're still belong to a singular gender, right? So from a biological lens, it's two in a, 0.96

00:21:12.620 in an identified lens, there's many. So that's the distinction. Okay. As far as the brain is concerned,

00:21:19.500 the brain is a biological organ. The mind is not. The mind is where interpretation happens. The brain

00:21:31.260 in the biological lens develops in certain stages, which means the wiring fires at certain stages.

00:21:38.060 So for the trans community, they are already dealing with that complexity because they have

00:21:45.260 this biological, then they have the interpretation, which is the mind, and they have to not navigate

00:21:51.260 into society that either agrees or disagrees. So for them needing support is far greater because

00:21:58.620 they're navigating three channels versus two channels. That is very complex to think about. But does it then

00:22:07.100 make sense to say that untreated psychological distress and can that create dangerous conditions?

00:22:16.380 It's like a pressure cooker, right? Like, and you, you could see that in, I think, um,

00:22:21.900 um, one of the, one of the podcasts we did quite early, the, the Tom Brady. And if you typecast it into

00:22:31.500 this, he divorces. What is he doing? He's rebound dating, right? That's pressure release because he's

00:22:40.860 trying to make sense of, I did everything I was supposed to. I was going after Superbowl rings. I wasn't

00:22:50.620 womanizing. Why'd you leave me? Right? So it's, it's an, it's a rational experience trying to make

00:22:59.260 meaning. So you see the similarities in terms of the loop cycle. So yes, it's a pressure point. He

00:23:08.700 may choose a different way to express it or outsource it. They chose a different way to express it and

00:23:13.820 outsource it. But the pressure points were the same. The distress were the same, right? Because you're

00:23:18.940 trying to find meaning to an experience that doesn't make sense. Yeah. So the police also said

00:23:23.580 that the shooter was apprehended several times for assessment under the province's mental health act.

00:23:29.020 So then where does the responsibility fall? Did the system fail this person? Did society fail them?

00:23:36.380 And how do people find meaning in all of that? So society is the system.

00:23:43.500 If you really look at it, when it comes to mental health and when it comes to me as the

00:23:54.620 therapist or anyone in my profession, it's very narrow in terms of how much we can do

00:24:02.460 because there's only so much you can do and it's designed that way.

00:24:06.140 So the better conversation that needs to be had is one, how do we mainstream it? Not mainstream it in

00:24:15.500 like Bell's Let's Talk where it's marketed or it's misrepresented where it's like, oh, you're

00:24:22.380 using that as an excuse because those are your two poles, right? Like, so where the failures are is that

00:24:31.420 as a society, we need to go, hey, you know what? We should be able to have conversations and we should

00:24:40.300 give space for expression regardless of what generation you are, regardless of whether when

00:24:46.300 you were at that time, it was there or not. So let's just move past all of that because the minute

00:24:50.620 we move past that, now we become more middle. Uh, you'll hear from boomers, right? Oh, the Zers, 1.00

00:24:57.820 you know, and then, you know, the Zers are like, we just have better vocabulary and we're not afraid 0.79

00:25:03.980 to express ourselves. That's what needs to go. I think the generational thing is interesting to

00:25:09.660 bring up though, because if you talk to a boomer, I never had any mental health issues. I didn't need 0.98

00:25:15.580 therapy. We were fine. We got through it. And now it just feels like Gen Z are kind of nitpicking at

00:25:23.740 every little thing and they've got a problem with every little thing. Right? Because now you're

00:25:28.460 it's the pendulum, right? Like it's going from one end to the other. The monkeys in the middle are the

00:25:32.940 millennials and the Xers because they're like, Jesus Christ. The millennials are stuck in the middle 1.00

00:25:37.900 somewhere. Well, the Xers. Yeah. Right. But the point that I'm trying to make is, you know, and it 1.00

00:25:43.660 comes back to trying to answer that question that you asked, where did it fail? Society is a system.

00:25:49.900 System is a society. Once we start getting away from these definitions and these words and putting them

00:25:56.860 in places and going, no, listen, it doesn't matter whether they're Gen Z or not. You at one point in

00:26:03.580 your life were 10 years old. You at one point in your life were 14 years old. Therefore, you also had this

00:26:11.180 experience, how you processed it, how you interpreted it, what support structures you had. That's the

00:26:18.620 conversation. So why don't we learn from that and go, Hey, listen, when I was 13 and I had that same

00:26:23.980 experience and I would have benefited from having a place or a position or a approach where it would

00:26:29.500 have allowed me to express, just create that. Don't attach meaning to it. So now that 12 year old,

00:26:36.220 because it's still a 12 year old, they all of a sudden have that space. So then they'd be like,

00:26:40.380 you know what? I appreciate this. Now, this is what a generational transfer should look like.

00:26:44.940 Not typecasting people and saying, well, in my time, you know, we walk the hill. Right. There's humor in

00:26:53.580 that. Right. But at the same time, then give the generation below the tools because then you're

00:27:00.060 going to see that it's beyond thoughts and prayers. So then tell me about those support structures then.

00:27:05.340 What can parents, grandparents do for this generation who are struggling? And I think the difference is

00:27:11.580 they're more openly struggling. Right. But it's both ways. So the Zers need to also know how to suck it 1.00

00:27:18.060 a buttercup. You see what I'm saying? Because accommodations are necessary, but at the same time, 1.00

00:27:25.660 you also have to understand that they don't have that vocabulary. That means they don't have the

00:27:32.380 ability. We mistake vocabulary for ability. And now there's more vocabulary. Everybody has a word for

00:27:41.580 everything or everybody will overuse a word for everything. Right. Don't have those conversations.

00:27:49.660 Don't don't bring in vocabulary, bring in conversation and don't typecast because if you're

00:27:55.820 typecasting up, they're typecasting down. Everybody's just typecasting and you're just throwing words at

00:28:01.260 each other. Understand it. And, you know, a Zer could then go, you know what? When they were 13,

00:28:07.740 they didn't have these resources. How did they get through? There's your tool to learn. And then they

00:28:14.300 turn around and go, what would they need? There's your exchange. How did they get through? You've

00:28:19.260 learned because sometimes you just have to learn to get through. Sometimes there aren't accommodations.

00:28:25.260 Sometimes you got to figure it out. So there's the learning for the Zers. And then for the boomers, 1.00

00:28:32.220 it's more like, what would they need? Because you have the ability to bring wisdom in. Now you're

00:28:37.020 shaping society. Now you're going to see less lapse in systems or in failures because now

00:28:42.860 if they went through five mental health checks, there was nobody there analyzing those five checks.

00:28:48.300 They were just meeting the criteria. And as long as they met within the frame of it,

00:28:53.180 you met that because that's the requirement that was set.

00:28:57.100 So then is that something to be said about the actual requirements then? Do you think there needs

00:29:01.260 to be some sort of revamp in the system itself?

00:29:04.060 We just need to have better conversations as a society. And we need to stop saying that mental

00:29:09.660 health is an issue. It's a concern. And we have an opportunity to have much more or much better

00:29:20.140 conversations about it. And this is what are some of the missed opportunities that came from COVID.

00:29:28.220 Because as much as it was a traumatizing experience, as much as it's something that we'd like to put

00:29:33.820 away in our past, something that we don't like to want to re-experience. But that was that one time

00:29:39.420 when you realize mortality and proximity to those you love. As a society, you learned that, right?

00:29:49.660 Because all of a sudden you never, when was the last time pre-COVID you care about the cashier?

00:29:56.780 I'm sorry.

00:29:57.420 Or the frontline workers. Anybody that had to go in and work. When was the last time?

00:30:04.300 Why don't we take lessons from that? Why don't we retain the memory for that? We have an ability

00:30:09.100 to go back into our past and find all the errors we've ever lived. Why don't we go back? It's the

00:30:13.500 same pathway. It's the same pathway in the mind to go into the past. Well, what about the the

00:30:19.660 awarenesses that you imprinted in the first few months of COVID where you were like, I'm going to go

00:30:24.220 to this. I'm going to go to this. Well, that's what we can do as a society because we all experience

00:30:27.980 it collectively. So why don't we take those lessons, bring them into today's reality, and then take

00:30:34.380 today's lessons into tomorrow's reality. Guess what you're doing? Now you're moving forward. You're

00:30:39.340 going beyond thoughts and prayers. Because I'm like, we're done with these words and the vocabulary of

00:30:46.060 things. Makes sense. So going forward now, this is also a developing story. There are many,

00:30:52.060 many elements that are coming out and we kind of learn something new every day about this case.

00:30:57.340 But how does the society, the town, the country move forward? You kind of did mention this,

00:31:02.940 but how do we find strength in this and how do we look ahead and just hope that something like this

00:31:07.900 doesn't happen again? We're going to need three things. One, we're going to have to understand that

00:31:14.460 that community is impacted for the rest of their lives. So if you are going to show a reaction,

00:31:24.540 then make sure you're committed to that reaction down the road. And this is where like, you know,

00:31:30.620 you get your, it's more the content creators than your mainstream. They will vilify mainstream,

00:31:39.900 but the actual issue is your content creators because they're click baiting. They need viewerships.

00:31:45.500 They need traffic driven. So they're going to go to the next sensational news. That's where a society

00:31:55.260 responsibility sits there. So if you're going to do that, make sure that you have a follow through.

00:32:01.820 As a society recognize that that community is going to need a while to recover from that experience and

00:32:14.060 then committing in the longterm and recognizing that it's going to be a process and not more so for

00:32:22.060 the actual experience because you brought up the PTSD earlier. It's those 12, 13, 14, 15 year olds

00:32:28.700 that are formulating their world and their entire world got deconstructed. They're going to have

00:32:34.940 elements of that PTSD years down the road, commit to providing them support because you don't know

00:32:41.900 when it's going to surface. You don't know where they turn functional, but then all they need is a

00:32:48.780 singular experience to unwind and undo all of that. So if you are bandwagon jumping today,

00:32:57.180 then also make sure to understand that this is a longterm and there's a commitment to that longterm.

00:33:05.420 And it's not only exclusive to them. It could be equally affordable to you because you have

00:33:13.180 vicariously inherited the PTSD.

00:33:18.780 It's a lot. It's a lot. It's a lot for us to unpack. And I mean, I hate to use this language after

00:33:24.860 everything we just talked about, but our thoughts and prayers really and truly do go out to everyone

00:33:28.460 in Tumblr Ridge BC who have been affected by this tragedy. The entire country is in mourning. And

00:33:34.140 Sim, if anybody wants to reach out for support, what do you provide and how can they do that?

00:33:39.900 So I will equally share my thoughts and prayers because it's more than that. And the fact that,

00:33:46.620 you know, we were able to sit and have a conversation about it, that's an imprint,

00:33:49.820 that's an impact, right? So definitely what they are going through, what we are going through as a

00:33:55.500 society. You know, my wishes are equal to that, uh, in terms of support, uh, some of the clinic is

00:34:06.620 horizon within, uh, the websites horizon within.ca. Um, I focus on anxiety. I focus on depression. I

00:34:13.900 focus on, um, areas that cause distress, help bring regulation back. Uh, I offer a complimentary

00:34:24.140 consult so you can go on, on the website and, uh, book a console. We can talk about it and we can

00:34:30.300 figure out, okay, what steps do you need to help you function, regulate, you know?

00:34:36.300 Well, Sim Chaba, thank you so much for joining us. And once again, this has been a very, very difficult

00:34:40.540 topic to discuss. And as I said, it's a developing story. We may find out more in the coming days and

00:34:46.540 weeks, but stay safe and take care of yourselves. And don't forget to find us on social media, every

00:34:51.980 podcast platform at TPL media. Thanks for having me.

Tumbler Ridge - Coping With Disaster

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