True Patriot Love - What is the GROCERS CODE OF CONDUCT Doing for Canadians？

00:00:00.000 hi i'm mike thanks for joining us don't forget to subscribe and tell a friend tplmedia.ca for

00:00:09.080 all kinds of great shows we we put up like four or five a day all of them focused on the stuff

00:00:13.780 that's important to canadians today's no exception to that let me ask you is your grocery bill coming

00:00:18.920 down week over week month over month i'm going to guess the answer is no are you noticing any

00:00:24.000 real relief at the grocery store from the grocers that you frequent i'm guessing the answer is no

00:00:29.980 but that's weird because now they're being held to a code of conduct uh joining me to talk about it

00:00:35.500 today reporter at large and contributor for tpl shaliza backus thanks for coming in hey hey thanks

00:00:41.040 for having me well uh to have somebody to talk to about this uh might make me feel a little less

00:00:45.980 crazy you're not crazy and actually i've actually got some extensive experience working in the retail

00:00:52.460 grocery sphere if you want if you will yeah no that's that's actually uh that was part of this

00:00:57.740 discussion you were like wait i have opinions on this and i i have an experience not only uh do you

00:01:03.500 have people that in your world that you uh you know relations that are in the business you've also

00:01:08.760 participated for many years in the grocery business many years yeah you do you want to say where uh no

00:01:15.680 okay so uh fair enough here's what the code of conduct was meant to do now you tell me if i'm if i've

00:01:22.360 missed anything uh it was meant to create fair rules between uh big grocery chains and and the

00:01:28.500 suppliers so that there wasn't price gouging and you know uh fixing prevent grocery giants from bullying

00:01:35.120 smaller food producers okay i don't uh maybe we can touch on that one a little bit because that it's a

00:01:42.120 little that one's a little misty to me uh stop surprise fees and sudden contract changes imposed

00:01:48.860 on suppliers that means uh you know when you supply something and they can't sell it where does it leave

00:01:54.520 you in that position how does pricing go and and uh bullying in that regard i'm sure occurs all the

00:02:00.500 time and then to improve transparency in how food gets priced and sourced i still have no idea how that

00:02:07.080 happens so i'm not sure how they're educating us i'm honestly not sure either i mean i i feel like

00:02:12.900 recently obviously with everything happening south of the border we've all been pushing like buy

00:02:16.980 canadians support canadian brands what does that even mean does that do anything for our economy

00:02:23.340 does it make it better does it make it a better experience in the grocery store i don't think it

00:02:27.700 does i'm not sure that the uh tariff impact is even being applied in many of the places that would

00:02:33.320 affect food but you know that's for the experts to talk about but what i really do think is that

00:02:39.480 since this came on it was like a really big show actually i put down who was involved there's a lot

00:02:43.920 of people i make notes on occasion but i don't know what i'm talking about tell you okay tell you

00:02:48.600 so it'd be loblo so these metro costco and walmart okay so this was a multi-stakeholder discussion

00:02:55.440 and uh it was designed to rebalance retailer supplier relationships so that's important to note it was

00:03:02.780 meant to rebalance retailer and supplier relationships not retailer and consumer relationships

00:03:09.860 and i think that has been made pretty clear that the consumers aren't i i don't know what the

00:03:15.120 consumers are really benefiting benefiting from this well apparently there's no guaranteed uh lower

00:03:20.460 prices which i think was i thought that's what the mission was however even in the code of contact

00:03:27.220 conduct that's not it the code wasn't designed to reduce grocery prices and uh they said that we

00:03:33.260 won't likely see cheaper food bills anytime soon in fact this is the same group that's telling us

00:03:38.540 the the code of conduct group those retailers and those grocers and the suppliers are all telling

00:03:44.580 us well you better be on the lookout for higher food prices they're the ones warning us that more

00:03:49.600 more is going to come out of our pockets uh impact on pricing is uncertain so you know

00:03:56.300 they're not giving us any predictive data about how we should be pricing our food in the

00:04:02.620 the next next year um that seems weird to me benefits uh they will say take time so these

00:04:10.620 relationships and rescoring these relationships we won't see the results of it for some time

00:04:15.300 why didn't we start it sooner right agreed i mean i don't think it's just recently that prices have

00:04:22.140 been rising that the consumers have been affected and i'm all for you know supporting canadian and trying

00:04:28.140 to support canadian suppliers and things like that but honestly if i went into the grocery store and i

00:04:32.360 saw an american brand for 199 and a canadian brand for 299 which one do you think i'm buying no i mean

00:04:38.180 it's just common sense our economy is in such a place that you have to buy according to price in many

00:04:42.580 many cases yeah we would love to have the option to say i'll buy canadian at you know 25 more

00:04:49.040 but we're already tapped i don't see consumers really i i think that if you have a decent income and

00:04:57.560 you're not struggling grocery visit to grocery visit yeah maybe looking at only canadian items

00:05:03.400 or you know focus on that but most canadians most people are focused on the price at the checkout

00:05:08.960 what uh now in the business that you've you know the business what are you seeing if any effects of

00:05:17.380 this code of conduct like what is happening at the retail end in all honesty not much you if you're

00:05:24.020 working at store level you're basically taking instructions from whatever the big guys have to

00:05:29.420 say and yes we're trying to focus on highlighting canadian products and there was a whole big spread

00:05:36.500 with that and amongst all the major retailers i think we're really trying to highlight canadian

00:05:40.940 things and then that slowly fizzled away because i think i think they realized it wasn't sustainable

00:05:46.540 i think you know if we're getting stuff from not the states necessarily but from places like the

00:05:52.220 dominican republic anywhere else in the caribbean sometimes those ethnic produce items have to come

00:05:57.480 from there and so they're still kind of cheaper you're still not really supporting canadian but

00:06:03.040 then you're not supporting the u.s so i think it just became very confusing for a lot of people so

00:06:07.180 that's why all of this proudly canadian stuff slowly started to fizzle out i think it's a symptom of

00:06:13.520 something else i'll take a quick left if i may i think that we want to cling to something that is

00:06:20.020 patriotic in this country that we can come together for and say we will not let the u.s steamroll us

00:06:25.380 we want to buy canadian we have the power to do it look at us we are a strong nation

00:06:29.860 which in some cases puts in a puts us in a position to be viewed as virtue signaling when

00:06:35.960 eight months later people are kind of like yeah i can't i don't know i don't know who owns it from

00:06:40.780 the u.s sure i don't know who owns this i i gotta go let's put it in the i think that that is a

00:06:46.200 really uh a limited i think you're right there was a limited time on that that people would tolerate

00:06:51.820 it now we expect our government to be making deals to bring in other groceries a couple of the ideas

00:06:56.400 that got floated around by the way i'll give you some stats you want to hear some stats people love

00:06:59.940 stats stats canada data shows that food prices increased by three percent between may

00:07:04.680 2024 and may 2025 even as the code was being introduced so cost is continued to go up i guess

00:07:14.340 inflation does that maybe it would be higher without the code i i don't know i think it would be the same

00:07:22.520 if i'm being honest again i don't feel like this code really benefits consumers or puts them at the top

00:07:28.740 of mind and i think it's more for behind the scenes operations that maybe they can cover their own

00:07:34.300 butts with certain things that maybe they couldn't do before or they were doing before that were not

00:07:40.420 ethical it almost feels like they're getting the government's approval to go and do what they were

00:07:44.800 already doing and just you know say they're doing something else maybe i'm wrong about that we'll see

00:07:50.000 the the stats show differently though uh widespread concern about costs remain high 81 percent of canadian

00:07:55.860 surveyed worried about rising grocery costs uh food inflation hit a two-year high of 4.7 percent

00:08:02.920 almost five percent increase in food year over year that's wild that is wild that's wild is anybody

00:08:10.100 making five percent more at work absolutely not absolutely not and i'm like thinking about you know

00:08:15.600 and we were talking about this before we hit record we were talking about like european grocers and

00:08:21.020 international grocers and i'm just thinking that got me thinking a lot about like the cost of

00:08:25.740 flour for example the cost of wheat for example obviously has gone up but can you compare the

00:08:31.040 flour that we manufacture here in canada to the flour in italy no it's completely different oh wow

00:08:37.940 okay that was a harsh one no we can't do flour like italy does no we can't no we can't yeah that's so

00:08:43.740 true but but we would love to have that market brought to us it's prevented potentially at the

00:08:48.620 moment it feels like it's all so expensive for mediocre quality you know a lot of the food that

00:08:54.180 is manufactured here it's making people sick and it's not getting any cheaper so what are we doing 0.99

00:09:00.320 here in fact that that packaged and over processed food is just going up in price yeah beyond anything

00:09:06.560 else as well uh no that's a really good point well let's talk about that then okay so maybe it's time

00:09:11.800 maybe this code of conduct isn't what we need or it's only part of the solution i think the other part of the

00:09:16.620 solution is well let's look at the profits loblaws did four billion dollars in ebitda that's earnings

00:09:23.940 before interest tax debt and uh ah i can't remember what the as for appreciation any ideas i don't know

00:09:33.880 so but that was their before cost profit last year for their shareholders they had a booming year

00:09:43.000 and by the way that's the same almost a little bit more actually than what bell canada posted as

00:09:50.880 their profitable ebitda last year so do we i mean there's two monopolies obviously that we're looking

00:09:58.820 at that are doing very well that are kind of untethered for consumers i think it's time so here was one of

00:10:06.320 the ideas we had open up the market why don't we open up the market okay bring in other countries with

00:10:12.580 chains maybe even italian chains with good flour i'd i'd be i'd be the first person in line imagine

00:10:19.780 what the olives would be like at your italian uh import grocery store but i mean let's let's incite

00:10:25.640 them to be able to come here get space compete in the marketplace bring their supply chain with them

00:10:31.380 and then make a deal with them to stay here unsupported and unpurchased by other larger

00:10:38.520 entities so they can't be bought up by loblaws or walmart or costco and they have to keep in that

00:10:44.580 position for 10 years well why wouldn't we do that to see what would happen if we open up the market

00:10:49.780 beautiful things can happen if people want into the market with their product they will find their way

00:10:55.760 in on our terms that might be a better position for consumers it might be but then how do you go

00:11:02.400 about that and how do you think the government would be okay with that really you know i think that one

00:11:09.300 of the things we forget is that the government is us right and although they wield a lot of power

00:11:14.980 the only reason we got a uh uh a gcoc which by the way i think uh what's it uh the uh grocery code

00:11:22.700 of conduct i was gonna do the acronym i thought you were i thought that's where we were going

00:11:27.740 but i'll keep it classy the thing is when we this came about because we had an issue and we pushed the

00:11:37.260 government so hard if we did the same thing to say okay this isn't working nice try guys

00:11:41.900 you didn't really give us a solution that we were demanding what we want is an open market

00:11:46.460 um the other idea jim lang uh throwing around at our staff meeting the other day and if you have

00:11:53.260 one by the way comment do you have ideas about how we should be doing this better because we'll bring

00:11:57.500 it back we revisit topics this one definitely comes up a lot um what if we put subsidies out there

00:12:04.860 on the basics the flour the bread the grains the uh butter the milk right all of our basics all the

00:12:12.140 things that we need as standard basics why don't we subsidize that then i mean price anything else

00:12:17.100 outside of that as it needs to be because those are not necessities but maybe the necessities need

00:12:23.500 to be handled yes and i think that's what it comes down to is that the average canadian is struggling to

00:12:30.220 afford just the necessities we're not talking about the sugary breakfast cereals the you know tv dinners

00:12:37.020 literally bread milk eggs uh you and i were talking bread just went up yeah the off-brand i mean the

00:12:44.940 off-brand loaf of bread where i work was 199 for the longest time yeah that's a reasonable price for a

00:12:52.300 loaf of processed bread yeah and just recently it went up to two over two dollars i think 249 or something

00:12:59.180 like that so so it went up significantly and mind you the wonder bread is on sale for the same price

00:13:07.340 so we're really there's no incentive no to buy canadian to buy local to buy at that at that

00:13:14.460 grocer's and we'll actually reach out into other markets because the pricing's similar and the brand

00:13:22.060 is known exactly and you're looking at that for everything not just loaves of bread if you're walking

00:13:27.580 the whole store and you see the off-brand they're within pennies of a difference of the brand name stuff

00:13:34.380 so what are we doing here and what's the difference yeah we really do need to address

00:13:38.460 that especially supporting local brands we want to get back to making stuff here in canada

00:13:43.500 not importing it let's make product and subsidize it so that we can get it into the stores

00:13:50.060 uh and uh make it affordable yeah make it affordable what are the uh any any other things that you see at

00:13:55.740 the retail and that this code of conduct is causing uh retailers i mean i think a lot of i think it's

00:14:03.180 confusing consumers more than anything because i think that they think something like this comes into

00:14:07.580 effect as an average consumer okay that means things are going to drop that means prices are

00:14:11.820 going to drop people who don't understand how the business works how overhead costs works how supply

00:14:16.300 chains work they just instantly think they're going to walk through the doors and they're going to see a

00:14:19.820 difference right and understandably nothing can happen overnight no that's fair but things can

00:14:25.020 happen quickly exactly certain things can happen quickly and i feel like trying to cap food prices

00:14:30.860 or trying to lower them is something that could have happened a little quicker especially if you're

00:14:34.700 a company making over four billion dollars in a year you want to hear what they're saying what are

00:14:38.540 they because they will they will come back so i made some notes about some of the stuff that the

00:14:41.980 grocers have said uh they'll say the code of conduct uh code of conduct was not meant to cut grocery prices

00:14:47.980 prices okay uh and they'll say some resisted it at first but walmart canada loblaws initially

00:14:53.900 hesitated to sign on to the code partly because of concerns about its potential impact on operations

00:14:59.980 and pricing so some of them are even lumbering into this code of conduct because they're like i don't

00:15:06.620 know this doesn't really work in our business model so even what they're putting out there the big guys

00:15:12.300 costco and walmart are saying really this doesn't work for our model so i don't know what you want

00:15:17.820 us to do they're not adhering to anything so with that being said then doesn't that mean that the

00:15:23.180 model needs to be revisited yeah 100 i believe they'll also argue that they're already working

00:15:29.260 on affordability for example costco's leadership has told lawmakers the company isn't seeking extra

00:15:34.300 profit from inflation and works with suppliers to reduce costs meanwhile costco are the guys that if

00:15:41.180 they don't sell your product they want you to come pick it up and you don't get paid until it's been

00:15:45.500 banked for 90 like the deal for the suppliers can't be any better than it is for the consumers

00:15:50.460 there's just no way it's not so maybe what we need is a different mediary intermediary in there that is

00:15:56.940 not loblaws or costco or or uh walmart or metro metro i mean the other one yeah that's it so be so be

00:16:06.140 you know what between us we would have finished the quiz but yeah um i do think that something has to

00:16:11.260 happen i i think we have to do something that focuses on putting food in our bellies that's

00:16:15.580 healthy at prices that we can afford and then anything outside of that we can start to make

00:16:19.660 the free market but i think it's time to reign this in i don't think the grocery code of conduct is

00:16:24.300 working i don't i don't think it is either and again as an average consumer walking through a store

00:16:30.300 if you see a frozen tv dinner on sale go on what what kind salisbury steak the uh what is it the

00:16:37.980 the pasta ones like the the cheddar and whatever okay i like those two yeah those two but they're

00:16:43.660 filling and they're quick and they're easy yeah you can grab five of those for the price that it

00:16:48.700 would cost you to buy pasta vegetables sauce whatever the case is right so that we're struggling

00:16:56.540 with that too because we're thinking about the price tag but then we're like well if i can get

00:17:00.380 full for this that is not healthy whatsoever it's pumped full of sodium and preservatives and all of

00:17:05.580 those things yeah and but some of us just simply can't afford the fresh ingredients one more thing

00:17:11.500 fresh butcher okay so i go to fortino's and i go to these this is my own personal experience there's no

00:17:18.780 libel here this is my experience i go there and i see the price on meat and it is outrageous at this

00:17:24.380 moment and then i go to the local butcher and i'm going to name them too toterra fine foods you'll

00:17:29.020 find them in maple no they don't pay me to say this best meat in the country at lower pricing than

00:17:34.860 i'll find at any of those larger chains so why is that how is that explain the meat cup is the meat

00:17:41.900 not coming from the same place or is it not it's definitely not because the quality at toterra is so

00:17:47.580 much higher than what i get at any of the chains that there's no way it's coming from the same place

00:17:53.740 and something is getting in the way of the pricing make it make sense make it make sense

00:17:59.580 uh can you help us make sense of it maybe you're even in the grocery business maybe you are a grocer

00:18:04.380 but certainly uh if you have an opinion or some information you think that we should pass along

00:18:09.180 put it into the comments we'll bring it up and we'll share it around shaliza thanks so much thank you

00:18:14.380 see you next time

True Patriot Love - February 17, 2026

What is the GROCERS CODE OF CONDUCT Doing for Canadians？

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript