True Patriot Love - September 11, 2025


Why Returning to the Office Feels So Hard ｜ Mike Wixson with Sim Chhabra


Episode Stats

Length

26 minutes

Words per Minute

179.15962

Word Count

4,703

Sentence Count

252

Misogynist Sentences

4

Hate Speech Sentences

1


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.040 Well, we're starting to hear that it's back-to-work time.
00:00:03.120 Yep, the kids just went back to school,
00:00:04.740 but major corporations across the country
00:00:06.880 are starting to notify their employees at all levels
00:00:10.820 that it's time to come back to work.
00:00:12.540 The work-at-home process seems to be winding down
00:00:15.460 for a lot of corporations.
00:00:16.860 Now, I'm not gonna lie to you,
00:00:18.380 my first reaction to this one was,
00:00:20.360 suck it up, buttercup, you have to go to work.
00:00:22.520 But the truth is, it probably is going to have impact
00:00:25.800 on people's lives that got comfortable working from home,
00:00:29.180 made arrangements, created new ways to live.
00:00:33.040 And today, we're gonna find out more about that
00:00:35.080 as we speak with my good friend, Sim.
00:00:43.780 Sim, thank you so much for joining us.
00:00:46.760 Psychotherapist right here in town,
00:00:48.400 not too far from our studios,
00:00:50.080 and a guy I've gotten to know through your own podcast,
00:00:54.040 which is very good, by the way.
00:00:56.040 Tell us a little bit about your psychotherapy practice.
00:00:59.180 So, the practice is called Horizon Within.
00:01:01.880 It's right out of Port Credit,
00:01:03.540 and basically, I focus on people
00:01:06.100 that are going through life transitions,
00:01:08.640 anxiety management, depression management,
00:01:11.340 self-development.
00:01:13.180 And, by the way, I've discovered,
00:01:15.300 the reason that you're here is that,
00:01:17.200 you know, you meet some psychotherapists,
00:01:19.960 they have certain attitudes and approaches.
00:01:22.240 Yours is very conversational, very chat-like,
00:01:26.300 and I thought you'd be a really good person
00:01:28.380 to contact and have a conversation about this topic.
00:01:32.120 People are going back to work.
00:01:33.880 People that had worked from home
00:01:35.740 and created a home office
00:01:37.160 and a way of getting the kids to and from,
00:01:40.100 and now some of the big corporations
00:01:42.240 right here in Canada are saying,
00:01:43.540 okay, but everybody's got to come back to work.
00:01:46.080 COVID is long over,
00:01:47.220 and we need this interaction again.
00:01:49.840 What are your thoughts, first of all,
00:01:51.260 on companies doing that after all this time?
00:01:54.060 So, there's two sides to that coin, right?
00:01:57.800 And what's happening is we're hearing opposing,
00:02:01.280 people taking opposing positions,
00:02:03.560 and then it's kind of like an opinion where,
00:02:06.220 whoa, I mean, it's a job,
00:02:07.660 or, you know, it's convenience,
00:02:09.580 or it's, you know, work productivity,
00:02:12.300 or, you know, one of the things
00:02:13.780 that I was thinking about is,
00:02:15.060 and this is putting on a tinfoil hat
00:02:17.660 and saying, you know,
00:02:18.960 you always have other incentives or motives, right?
00:02:26.180 Like, so, for example, you know,
00:02:28.260 when you look at the downtown core
00:02:29.340 and they did a study and they're like,
00:02:30.860 you know, with occupancy down,
00:02:32.660 you have all these auxiliary businesses
00:02:34.280 that are hurting.
00:02:35.340 So, now all of a sudden, you know,
00:02:37.120 it could be,
00:02:38.080 and I'm just going to go on a limb here,
00:02:39.860 the restaurant association saying,
00:02:41.640 hey, look, you know,
00:02:42.880 we have an entire industry
00:02:44.240 that's losing 40% money
00:02:45.960 because, you know,
00:02:47.560 a person that went to work ate lunch
00:02:50.420 or they went out for dinner afterwards.
00:02:52.120 That's a good point.
00:02:53.100 Or, you know, you had company meetings
00:02:55.120 and there's an entire catering industry
00:02:57.840 that's kind of disappearing.
00:02:59.220 Well, not to mention the real estate industry,
00:03:02.120 the building developers,
00:03:03.860 the condo owners,
00:03:05.520 all of these people
00:03:06.320 that would make the core viable,
00:03:07.700 more viable.
00:03:08.580 So, you have all these lobbyists
00:03:09.940 and what better way to market their needs
00:03:13.380 by just niching and saying,
00:03:15.080 well, you know,
00:03:15.460 you need to get these people back to work
00:03:17.120 and how do you force someone back?
00:03:20.580 Right.
00:03:20.960 So, it's basically what I'm noticing
00:03:23.540 is that, you know,
00:03:24.740 you have all these moving parts,
00:03:26.140 but the person that's stuck in the middle
00:03:28.740 is the individual
00:03:29.900 and what you just kind of mentioned earlier
00:03:31.720 where, you know,
00:03:33.320 they created this new life, right?
00:03:35.840 And they have a newfound appreciation
00:03:37.600 for their value of time.
00:03:39.700 So, I'll give you an example.
00:03:41.280 You know, you could have had an individual,
00:03:43.400 right,
00:03:44.120 that fed off being in people-centric environments
00:03:48.080 and for them,
00:03:49.620 work was identity.
00:03:51.920 And then you have this work-from-home mandate
00:03:54.520 that got instilled about five years ago
00:03:56.380 and, you know,
00:03:58.220 they realized over time
00:03:59.640 that that new time value that they got
00:04:03.120 is worth more than anything else
00:04:05.600 that they have.
00:04:07.580 Yeah.
00:04:08.180 Well, now, one,
00:04:09.040 they're trying to interpret that for themselves
00:04:10.900 because they've discovered something
00:04:12.300 that's valuable to them
00:04:14.080 that actually improves their productivity
00:04:16.520 and quality of life.
00:04:17.440 So, it actually gives them that balance.
00:04:20.100 In life?
00:04:21.340 Overall,
00:04:22.040 because a company's true incentive
00:04:24.780 for any employee
00:04:25.940 is greater return on productivity, right?
00:04:30.060 So, for every one unit input in pay,
00:04:33.380 there's an expectation
00:04:34.260 of at least 0.25% greater back.
00:04:37.140 Right.
00:04:37.700 That's in the theoretical world.
00:04:40.160 Now, companies can't quantify that
00:04:42.160 because then they come across
00:04:43.120 as being insensitive, right?
00:04:44.800 Because now,
00:04:45.320 how do you quantify a person's being?
00:04:47.720 Right.
00:04:48.140 That's a good point, too.
00:04:49.480 At your time,
00:04:50.260 your life has a value to you
00:04:52.760 that cannot be quantified.
00:04:54.460 And that's where I think
00:04:56.600 where the polls
00:04:57.660 or these margins
00:04:58.460 are being presented.
00:04:59.720 So, one of the things
00:05:02.880 that I work with
00:05:03.600 when I work with somebody
00:05:04.720 that's going through
00:05:05.220 life transition
00:05:05.800 is you kind of look at it
00:05:07.740 through a spectrum, right?
00:05:09.260 And you go,
00:05:10.140 okay,
00:05:10.800 either I am completely willing
00:05:13.000 and I'm excited on change
00:05:15.520 and that's one edge of the spectrum
00:05:17.300 and on the other is,
00:05:19.440 ugh,
00:05:20.300 you're going to need,
00:05:21.460 you know,
00:05:21.880 going to have to take me
00:05:22.700 by the nails, right?
00:05:23.600 Like, just pull me,
00:05:24.460 yank me,
00:05:24.800 I'm not moving.
00:05:25.440 So, those are your edges, right?
00:05:27.500 And then right in the middle
00:05:28.680 is like,
00:05:29.300 meh,
00:05:30.540 come see, come saw.
00:05:31.560 Right.
00:05:31.920 So, a minute,
00:05:32.720 you kind of go,
00:05:33.380 okay,
00:05:33.500 where do I usually sit?
00:05:35.360 So, in mental health,
00:05:36.540 you kind of go,
00:05:37.220 okay,
00:05:37.440 if I sit on the bottom
00:05:38.780 part of that spectrum,
00:05:39.940 so that means
00:05:40.360 change is not my friend,
00:05:42.680 right?
00:05:43.000 And I'm not ever
00:05:44.360 going to be indifferent about it.
00:05:45.380 So, I sit somewhere
00:05:46.100 here in the middle.
00:05:46.940 Right.
00:05:47.240 And on the other side
00:05:48.020 of the spectrum,
00:05:48.640 it's like,
00:05:49.700 I get excited with change,
00:05:51.860 but, you know,
00:05:53.420 I'm never going to be
00:05:54.760 indifferent about it.
00:05:55.700 So, what happens is,
00:05:56.480 on this side
00:05:57.400 of the spectrum,
00:05:58.220 the bottom part,
00:05:59.820 you're going to see
00:06:01.020 more of like,
00:06:02.140 right?
00:06:03.860 Like,
00:06:04.160 the motivation's gone,
00:06:06.600 things are heavy,
00:06:07.880 the world seems
00:06:08.500 a little bit more blue,
00:06:10.100 right?
00:06:10.540 On this other side
00:06:11.420 of the spectrum,
00:06:11.860 you're going to see
00:06:12.380 more like angst,
00:06:13.800 acceleration in thoughts.
00:06:15.580 You know,
00:06:16.140 even the thought of change
00:06:18.260 kind of like propels
00:06:19.140 your being,
00:06:19.600 and all of a sudden
00:06:20.100 everything's a blur,
00:06:20.980 and it's a spin cycle.
00:06:22.460 So,
00:06:23.180 in terms of mental health,
00:06:25.060 a lot of people,
00:06:26.560 you know,
00:06:26.800 once they realize,
00:06:27.600 hey,
00:06:27.760 where do I sit
00:06:28.520 in that spectrum?
00:06:30.240 Then,
00:06:30.720 what it does is,
00:06:31.300 it allows them to then
00:06:32.040 see where the change
00:06:33.720 needs to happen.
00:06:34.460 So,
00:06:34.640 for example,
00:06:35.600 take this individual
00:06:36.460 that appreciates
00:06:37.540 their quality of time.
00:06:38.960 Well,
00:06:39.520 before that realization,
00:06:40.560 they would have sat here
00:06:41.460 where excitement of change,
00:06:43.180 because they're going back
00:06:43.860 to something they like,
00:06:44.980 would be the true change.
00:06:46.880 So,
00:06:46.980 now all of a sudden,
00:06:47.520 they're like,
00:06:47.820 they're getting anxious,
00:06:48.780 but it's anticipatory
00:06:49.960 anxiousness to something
00:06:51.400 they like.
00:06:52.200 That's interesting.
00:06:53.920 Right?
00:06:54.380 But now,
00:06:55.340 because they appreciate
00:06:56.200 their time,
00:06:57.240 they have an aversion
00:06:58.640 to what they used to like.
00:07:01.520 Which must be
00:07:02.520 a complex feeling
00:07:03.780 within you.
00:07:04.840 This was the core
00:07:05.880 of my existence before,
00:07:07.320 and my driving force.
00:07:08.580 I adapted to this.
00:07:09.940 I found this new thing.
00:07:11.340 Yeah.
00:07:12.740 Maybe I'm wrong,
00:07:13.880 but going home for COVID
00:07:15.920 was an adaptation
00:07:17.420 people either made
00:07:18.780 with a certain amount
00:07:20.040 of discipline and ease
00:07:21.280 or resisted horribly
00:07:23.760 or lived underneath a rock.
00:07:27.100 And those seem to be
00:07:28.060 all the different parts
00:07:28.960 of the spectrum
00:07:29.600 that you're talking about.
00:07:31.480 I would imagine
00:07:32.200 the people that really
00:07:33.420 wanted to be sociable
00:07:34.880 and work better,
00:07:36.980 integrated with other people,
00:07:38.740 have long since,
00:07:39.800 I mean,
00:07:40.060 this is some years later,
00:07:41.940 have long since
00:07:42.600 found other careers
00:07:43.380 where they can find themselves
00:07:45.480 integrating in the physical sense
00:07:47.560 with people at work.
00:07:48.320 True, but the minute we get
00:07:50.960 into how they changed
00:07:52.280 and all of that,
00:07:53.000 it dilutes the true measure
00:07:55.000 of what they're feeling.
00:07:56.840 So what this does
00:07:58.740 is it brings it
00:07:59.640 to the individual.
00:08:01.040 Because once the individual
00:08:02.640 understands where the shift
00:08:04.820 is going towards
00:08:05.800 and where they are,
00:08:07.580 it allows them to then
00:08:08.660 conceptualize
00:08:10.220 what they're feeling.
00:08:12.500 So like you said,
00:08:13.600 you know,
00:08:13.940 okay, I've created this life.
00:08:15.140 So I've found a way to adapt
00:08:16.120 because we're looking
00:08:17.220 at four years now.
00:08:18.200 Four years is a long time.
00:08:19.720 It's a long time.
00:08:20.980 And for anybody,
00:08:22.940 there's not a person on Earth,
00:08:24.580 and this is entirely
00:08:25.440 the global thing,
00:08:26.440 you know,
00:08:26.680 we experience a phenomenon
00:08:27.960 that we will never,
00:08:29.320 ever experience again.
00:08:30.300 Hopefully.
00:08:32.460 Fingers crossed or not.
00:08:33.760 But the point is,
00:08:34.580 this is that we had to change
00:08:36.520 in a way that we'd never imagined.
00:08:38.920 Yeah.
00:08:39.140 Right?
00:08:39.560 So now,
00:08:41.220 to many,
00:08:43.180 what it is,
00:08:44.440 is it's a silent trigger.
00:08:45.920 Because now it's like,
00:08:46.860 I have to re-change
00:08:48.160 what I had to change to.
00:08:49.600 Right.
00:08:50.140 But now I started to like it.
00:08:52.120 I'm enjoying it.
00:08:53.300 Because it's shown me
00:08:54.380 that that hour and a half
00:08:55.800 that I used to spend in the car,
00:08:57.560 all of a sudden,
00:08:58.340 compounded over a week,
00:08:59.860 is almost seven hours.
00:09:01.840 Well, let's touch on that.
00:09:03.300 Now I spend a lot of time
00:09:04.360 in the car.
00:09:05.460 Traffic is not easy in Toronto
00:09:07.180 and major centers across Canada
00:09:08.700 and the U.S.,
00:09:09.500 we're finding the same thing.
00:09:11.120 Toronto traffic are on par,
00:09:12.660 apparently,
00:09:13.080 with Mexico City at the moment.
00:09:14.460 That's wild,
00:09:15.700 based on our population.
00:09:18.440 By the time that I get home,
00:09:20.260 I'm ready to take a bite
00:09:21.860 out of the asphalt
00:09:22.740 in my driveway.
00:09:23.980 Yeah.
00:09:24.960 Arriving home with that kind of energy,
00:09:27.680 or to work with that kind of energy,
00:09:30.420 it sounds like it might be
00:09:31.860 counterproductive to both life and work.
00:09:34.020 Right.
00:09:34.420 Now there might be
00:09:36.600 a necessity to that,
00:09:37.920 right?
00:09:38.280 So now what you could do
00:09:40.100 is you could say,
00:09:40.780 okay,
00:09:41.780 that is a forced necessity
00:09:44.340 that I can't negotiate against.
00:09:46.740 Right.
00:09:47.500 So there's an acceptance.
00:09:48.480 In other words,
00:09:49.080 I have to accept that reality,
00:09:51.200 whether I like it or not.
00:09:52.700 Well,
00:09:53.120 I have to accept that reality
00:09:54.520 and what can I do with it?
00:09:56.660 I recommend listening
00:09:57.620 to podcasts, actually.
00:09:59.360 Right.
00:09:59.560 But once you're out of your car,
00:10:01.020 it better be going with you.
00:10:03.520 See,
00:10:04.400 you know,
00:10:06.660 in my profession,
00:10:08.120 one of the most challenging things
00:10:09.880 is that how do you change
00:10:11.600 the interpretation
00:10:13.120 that we give to a word?
00:10:14.740 Right.
00:10:16.020 And that makes a big difference.
00:10:17.840 Now,
00:10:17.980 I'm not an advocate
00:10:18.720 for taking a word out
00:10:22.560 or saying you can't use that word,
00:10:24.060 but it makes a big difference.
00:10:25.680 Because,
00:10:26.700 say,
00:10:26.880 for example,
00:10:28.040 you know,
00:10:29.280 I have to accept it
00:10:30.460 whether I like it or not.
00:10:32.740 Internally,
00:10:33.660 that's a forced choice.
00:10:37.420 I'm not giving myself a choice.
00:10:39.820 Right.
00:10:40.060 But when you take a step back
00:10:41.900 and you look at it and go,
00:10:43.400 that's a non-negotiable choice
00:10:44.900 because that's something
00:10:46.360 that I have to work with
00:10:48.200 whether I like it or not
00:10:49.940 because that is part of
00:10:51.260 the structure of the day.
00:10:53.060 Right.
00:10:53.560 So now you could be like,
00:10:54.720 okay,
00:10:54.800 what do I do with it?
00:10:56.700 Right.
00:10:56.980 So while you're in the car,
00:10:59.000 podcast is your resource now
00:11:01.200 because now you could say,
00:11:02.140 hey, look,
00:11:02.980 I know that I have an hour.
00:11:05.120 That is my hour.
00:11:06.280 Whether,
00:11:07.600 how can I utilize it?
00:11:09.020 Audiobook.
00:11:09.660 Get educated.
00:11:11.020 Spend time on the phone
00:11:12.040 with your parents
00:11:12.840 or a loved one
00:11:13.540 you don't get the time to otherwise.
00:11:15.200 Or you could practice meditation.
00:11:17.660 It's your time.
00:11:19.280 Please,
00:11:19.660 if you're practicing meditation,
00:11:21.240 let's still keep eyes
00:11:22.720 and hands on the wheel
00:11:24.600 and eyes on the road.
00:11:26.340 Right.
00:11:26.720 Well,
00:11:26.940 I'm not saying shavasana.
00:11:28.200 Oh,
00:11:28.440 okay,
00:11:28.660 okay.
00:11:29.380 I'm not saying shavasana.
00:11:30.400 Let's not leave our bodies,
00:11:31.600 everybody,
00:11:32.100 if we can,
00:11:32.540 yeah.
00:11:32.980 But you're right.
00:11:33.620 There's a meditative moment
00:11:34.800 and a certain amount of calm
00:11:37.300 that you can take on that.
00:11:39.220 So really,
00:11:39.920 what we're talking about
00:11:40.660 is making adaptations
00:11:41.800 to a new thing
00:11:43.240 that is an old thing
00:11:44.620 but recognizing
00:11:45.820 that your body,
00:11:46.860 your chemistry,
00:11:47.340 your mind,
00:11:47.820 and your spirit
00:11:48.520 have made adjustments
00:11:51.180 and your body,
00:11:52.560 we don't like to change,
00:11:53.480 I don't think.
00:11:54.720 We like changing
00:11:56.640 as long as we have
00:11:58.000 an awareness of the transition.
00:11:59.340 Think of it this way,
00:12:00.280 right?
00:12:00.780 Remember when
00:12:01.880 we had to go to school
00:12:03.200 the first day,
00:12:04.060 like JK first day?
00:12:05.960 I kind of remember it.
00:12:07.500 Those were the drinking days.
00:12:08.720 I wish I'd met you then.
00:12:12.500 It was more fun.
00:12:14.860 More look better,
00:12:15.800 didn't it?
00:12:16.120 Yeah.
00:12:16.620 Yeah.
00:12:17.640 The point is,
00:12:18.520 is that,
00:12:19.320 and you can even see it now,
00:12:20.560 right?
00:12:20.760 Like the kids
00:12:21.640 that are like,
00:12:22.560 oh,
00:12:22.940 it's going to be so much fun
00:12:24.180 and rah, rah, rah, rah.
00:12:25.600 Right?
00:12:26.140 They anticipate
00:12:26.940 the change differently.
00:12:28.080 Right.
00:12:28.220 Same thing with
00:12:28.760 when you went into grade school,
00:12:30.000 same thing when you into high school,
00:12:31.700 same thing when you,
00:12:32.440 right?
00:12:32.900 Life transitions,
00:12:34.000 as long as we have
00:12:34.680 an awareness to it,
00:12:35.700 it tends to become
00:12:36.620 a part of our lives.
00:12:38.660 When they're a little jarring,
00:12:40.200 COVID,
00:12:40.760 one of the most prime examples,
00:12:42.320 because it didn't matter
00:12:42.960 where you were
00:12:43.680 or who you were,
00:12:44.520 that was a unique life experience
00:12:46.120 that kiltered off everybody.
00:12:48.420 Yeah.
00:12:48.740 Okay.
00:12:49.140 But based on your upbringing
00:12:50.800 and your style of coping,
00:12:53.700 that's where now
00:12:54.740 the conversations become,
00:12:55.740 okay,
00:12:55.800 what did you do with it
00:12:56.480 and all of that X values.
00:12:57.780 Right?
00:12:58.340 So resistance to change,
00:13:00.580 it's common.
00:13:03.040 Adaptation to change
00:13:04.060 is common.
00:13:04.880 It's how we interpret either one.
00:13:08.540 And that's why
00:13:08.980 this spectrum comes in.
00:13:10.340 Because now all of a sudden,
00:13:11.800 irrelevance of like,
00:13:12.820 you may have had,
00:13:13.880 you know,
00:13:14.520 a choppy childhood,
00:13:16.440 right?
00:13:16.980 But you have a desire for change.
00:13:19.840 Or you could have had
00:13:20.820 the most smoothest childhood
00:13:22.020 and you have an aversion to change.
00:13:23.700 So you can fall anywhere
00:13:24.480 in the spectrum.
00:13:25.280 The idea of the spectrum,
00:13:26.660 I use that in clinic often,
00:13:28.180 is so that we both know
00:13:29.600 where you sit.
00:13:30.480 Right.
00:13:30.660 You can start to find
00:13:31.940 a better place on the map
00:13:32.900 for yourself.
00:13:33.640 Because the idea is
00:13:34.780 you have to go in a direction.
00:13:36.020 Ah, right.
00:13:37.220 And because now you have awareness,
00:13:38.900 there's no more
00:13:39.560 suck at a buttercup.
00:13:40.720 There's no I have to accept it.
00:13:42.020 There's more like,
00:13:42.740 okay,
00:13:44.100 what am I doing with it?
00:13:45.440 How am I maximizing
00:13:46.660 my resource
00:13:47.380 for what it is here?
00:13:49.140 That's a very tough,
00:13:50.680 that's a discipline
00:13:51.460 that you really would have to,
00:13:53.480 that I recommend people do
00:13:54.640 if they can.
00:13:56.440 If you're in that situation,
00:13:57.740 going back to work
00:13:58.560 and you hadn't been
00:13:59.180 for some time to the workplace,
00:14:01.980 yeah,
00:14:02.240 create a new plan
00:14:03.240 for what that looks like
00:14:04.300 in that transition for you
00:14:05.780 so that you can better
00:14:07.320 optimize life
00:14:08.340 in that bubble.
00:14:09.740 Now,
00:14:09.940 I'll tell you,
00:14:10.300 I do think
00:14:11.340 that there will be
00:14:13.120 added mental health days
00:14:15.820 as people go back to work.
00:14:17.600 I think that there will be
00:14:18.660 disruptions in productivity.
00:14:20.240 I do think that
00:14:21.040 the corporations
00:14:21.780 are still going to say,
00:14:23.200 well,
00:14:23.760 in that case,
00:14:24.440 you must work harder
00:14:25.380 or get into work earlier
00:14:26.700 or stay later.
00:14:27.920 And that might be
00:14:29.980 an adaptation
00:14:30.740 that people are not ready for,
00:14:32.340 that they were off the clock
00:14:33.960 at four o'clock
00:14:34.680 and in the backyard
00:14:35.640 and now they might have to work
00:14:37.800 till five o'clock
00:14:38.640 and then drive home.
00:14:40.060 That could have a serious impact
00:14:41.640 on society.
00:14:43.240 Right.
00:14:43.560 And so,
00:14:44.720 this is where,
00:14:46.500 you know,
00:14:47.360 if we're going to go
00:14:48.420 with the private sector,
00:14:49.460 right?
00:14:50.560 Even though it's a sector,
00:14:52.560 the architect
00:14:53.400 is still a human.
00:14:55.060 Right.
00:14:55.340 So,
00:14:56.200 if the human,
00:14:56.980 that's the architect,
00:14:58.440 also recognizes
00:14:59.480 that they have
00:15:01.080 a tendency to change
00:15:02.400 and acknowledge
00:15:03.520 that human factor
00:15:04.520 in them,
00:15:05.820 the design
00:15:06.580 and the structure
00:15:07.120 will automatically
00:15:07.800 have a human component.
00:15:09.000 Well,
00:15:09.120 see,
00:15:09.280 we adapted very quickly
00:15:10.420 when COVID came into play.
00:15:11.760 People were back at work
00:15:12.840 and in Zoom calls
00:15:14.460 within six months
00:15:15.340 and we were all
00:15:16.200 pretty much trying
00:15:16.760 to do our thing
00:15:17.340 in that new bubble.
00:15:18.400 Right.
00:15:18.720 I would imagine
00:15:19.300 the same thing will happen.
00:15:21.280 But the one thing
00:15:22.440 I will say is
00:15:23.100 I think once the pendulum,
00:15:24.740 and this is human nature,
00:15:25.780 once the pendulum swings
00:15:26.780 in a direction,
00:15:27.840 when it comes back,
00:15:29.040 it goes just as far
00:15:30.180 and sometimes further.
00:15:31.480 So,
00:15:31.960 depending on the trajectory
00:15:33.520 of where this goes,
00:15:35.740 I don't think that
00:15:37.080 there's immediately
00:15:38.200 a happy medium
00:15:39.180 for people in the workforce
00:15:40.380 going back to work
00:15:41.600 that's going to make them
00:15:42.560 feel great instantly
00:15:43.720 or not require
00:15:45.300 a certain amount
00:15:45.860 of adapting in life.
00:15:47.540 Right.
00:15:47.880 So,
00:15:48.380 I mean,
00:15:48.640 that's the opportunity cost,
00:15:50.160 right?
00:15:50.420 Like,
00:15:50.820 in a nutshell,
00:15:52.000 opportunity cost
00:15:52.660 is the cost
00:15:53.320 of giving something up
00:15:54.200 to get something,
00:15:54.940 right?
00:15:55.500 It's a Coles note.
00:15:56.740 Look it up.
00:15:57.380 It's probably
00:15:57.680 one of the most
00:15:58.460 transformational
00:16:00.560 theories out there,
00:16:03.260 right?
00:16:03.480 Because it allows you
00:16:04.260 to kind of understand,
00:16:05.140 you know,
00:16:05.380 for me to get something,
00:16:06.180 what do I have to give up?
00:16:07.040 Right.
00:16:07.140 And that is fundamentally
00:16:08.680 true of anything we do,
00:16:10.360 right?
00:16:11.280 But not to get caught
00:16:12.520 in the semantics of things,
00:16:13.920 you know,
00:16:14.200 you bring up a very good point.
00:16:15.800 It's this pendulum
00:16:18.540 that's swerving,
00:16:20.020 right?
00:16:20.180 Like,
00:16:20.400 from one polar end
00:16:21.260 to the other.
00:16:21.700 And people are trying
00:16:23.220 to find their middle.
00:16:24.440 Yeah.
00:16:24.760 Right?
00:16:25.000 Because at the end
00:16:25.740 of the day,
00:16:26.200 you know,
00:16:26.460 you kind of go,
00:16:27.020 okay,
00:16:27.180 how much on this
00:16:28.780 end of the shift
00:16:29.340 I'm okay with?
00:16:29.980 How much on that
00:16:30.520 end of the shift
00:16:31.060 I'm okay with?
00:16:31.780 And how do I fit with it
00:16:33.140 so it's consistent
00:16:33.840 across the board?
00:16:34.900 Right?
00:16:35.360 Now,
00:16:35.920 companies can kind of
00:16:36.740 be a little bit more
00:16:37.700 ingenious about it.
00:16:39.040 And they could be like,
00:16:39.620 okay,
00:16:40.440 what jobs
00:16:42.380 are asynchronous
00:16:43.240 that there is
00:16:44.600 no value
00:16:45.560 for them being
00:16:46.840 physically present
00:16:47.540 or not present?
00:16:48.360 Right.
00:16:48.500 And then you shake
00:16:49.920 the tree
00:16:50.280 and look,
00:16:51.620 this is not,
00:16:52.400 you can't go back
00:16:53.040 to what was
00:16:54.020 because there is
00:16:54.780 no was.
00:16:56.760 So you can take
00:16:57.800 essences of what was
00:16:59.000 and go,
00:16:59.680 okay,
00:16:59.960 how do we adapt
00:17:00.880 going forward?
00:17:01.720 What carries over?
00:17:03.020 And because there's
00:17:04.300 a human
00:17:04.960 in the archetype,
00:17:07.300 they look at it
00:17:08.200 from a human lens
00:17:09.440 rather than from
00:17:10.480 a business productivity
00:17:11.660 lens because
00:17:12.260 everything is good.
00:17:14.320 They have to remember
00:17:15.220 them.
00:17:15.640 Yeah.
00:17:16.100 Right?
00:17:16.380 Because at the end
00:17:16.900 of the day,
00:17:17.380 even in a corporation,
00:17:19.020 there's humans
00:17:19.800 that are working
00:17:20.400 in that corporation.
00:17:21.920 They're using
00:17:22.760 a systematic
00:17:24.360 approach
00:17:25.140 that strips
00:17:26.820 emotion out of it.
00:17:28.180 I have an
00:17:28.540 undergraduate in economics
00:17:29.420 so I understand
00:17:30.280 where the rational
00:17:31.120 for numbers come in.
00:17:32.140 Right.
00:17:32.840 And that's why
00:17:33.660 you have HR
00:17:34.520 because they bring
00:17:35.200 in the abstract.
00:17:36.260 Work collectively,
00:17:38.280 right?
00:17:38.580 Because if you're
00:17:39.100 productive,
00:17:39.840 you're productivity
00:17:40.540 driven,
00:17:41.780 the biggest thing
00:17:42.640 that's going to
00:17:43.120 interfere with
00:17:43.760 productivity
00:17:44.260 is mindset.
00:17:46.360 And if like
00:17:46.860 what you said
00:17:47.320 at the start,
00:17:48.100 if I'm not happy
00:17:50.700 being there,
00:17:51.620 you actually
00:17:52.340 are worse off
00:17:53.400 because now you
00:17:54.020 have somebody
00:17:54.580 sitting in that
00:17:55.540 chair that is
00:17:56.720 actually not
00:17:58.020 productive
00:17:58.520 and now you're
00:17:59.580 spending more money
00:18:00.240 to make them
00:18:00.780 feel happy.
00:18:02.140 So why not
00:18:02.760 design it
00:18:03.200 at the beginning?
00:18:04.340 Why not
00:18:04.780 account for
00:18:05.440 this elephant
00:18:05.860 in the room
00:18:06.360 and say,
00:18:06.720 hey, listen,
00:18:07.320 how do we
00:18:07.760 humanize this
00:18:08.460 experience?
00:18:09.300 Now, corporations
00:18:09.920 say, okay,
00:18:10.940 you went home
00:18:11.480 for COVID,
00:18:12.140 we made
00:18:12.480 accommodations
00:18:13.080 and that's
00:18:13.680 cost us
00:18:14.200 and we've
00:18:14.480 had to revamp
00:18:15.120 and everything,
00:18:15.520 but we've
00:18:15.820 got to get
00:18:16.340 back to
00:18:16.760 our normal
00:18:17.740 course of
00:18:18.300 business.
00:18:19.020 And I
00:18:20.400 think that
00:18:21.000 sentiment
00:18:21.600 creates an
00:18:22.760 anti-corporate
00:18:23.760 feel
00:18:24.260 among people.
00:18:25.460 Right.
00:18:26.400 Because
00:18:26.840 they're trying
00:18:29.160 to present
00:18:30.220 a point
00:18:30.920 that, hey,
00:18:32.280 look, we
00:18:32.680 accommodated
00:18:33.400 you,
00:18:34.320 we're just
00:18:34.880 telling you
00:18:35.960 we're restoring
00:18:36.560 it back to
00:18:37.120 how operations
00:18:37.740 work.
00:18:38.580 But that's
00:18:39.280 not a true
00:18:39.660 statement.
00:18:40.480 And the reason
00:18:40.940 why it's not
00:18:41.260 a true statement
00:18:41.740 is because you
00:18:42.280 genuinely didn't
00:18:42.920 accommodate
00:18:43.440 the individual,
00:18:45.520 you adapted
00:18:46.700 to the
00:18:47.240 environment
00:18:47.860 to stay
00:18:48.700 alive.
00:18:49.280 because the
00:18:50.600 mandates were
00:18:51.400 you couldn't
00:18:51.780 be in
00:18:52.100 office.
00:18:52.540 But do we
00:18:53.420 have to
00:18:53.940 think of
00:18:54.440 the individual
00:18:55.660 at a
00:18:56.580 corporate
00:18:56.860 level?
00:18:57.700 Absolutely.
00:18:58.600 How can
00:18:59.540 we possibly
00:19:00.300 think of
00:19:00.860 the individual
00:19:01.860 when there's
00:19:02.380 15,000
00:19:03.320 employed?
00:19:04.140 But collectively
00:19:05.120 they're all
00:19:05.640 sharing the
00:19:06.060 same angst.
00:19:07.540 It's a
00:19:07.860 change that
00:19:08.880 is individual
00:19:10.180 to them.
00:19:10.760 So you
00:19:10.960 look at it
00:19:11.420 and go,
00:19:11.800 okay,
00:19:12.420 you know,
00:19:13.140 which jobs
00:19:14.200 are asynchronous?
00:19:15.200 You can
00:19:15.560 shake the
00:19:16.040 tree a bit,
00:19:16.600 be a little
00:19:16.960 bit imaginative,
00:19:17.980 you know,
00:19:18.340 and go,
00:19:18.860 okay,
00:19:19.280 measure
00:19:20.080 productivity.
00:19:20.780 You have
00:19:20.940 a way of
00:19:21.260 measuring
00:19:21.480 productivity
00:19:22.000 and just
00:19:22.440 look at
00:19:22.720 productivity.
00:19:23.260 Don't look
00:19:23.540 at the
00:19:23.740 person,
00:19:24.080 what they're
00:19:24.360 doing or
00:19:24.680 who they
00:19:25.000 are,
00:19:25.240 whether they
00:19:25.580 work in
00:19:25.900 office or
00:19:26.340 they work
00:19:26.680 away.
00:19:27.360 If you
00:19:27.700 got to
00:19:27.940 do a
00:19:28.800 sterile way
00:19:32.680 of doing
00:19:32.980 math,
00:19:34.100 then productivity
00:19:35.500 is your
00:19:36.060 true marker,
00:19:37.340 right?
00:19:37.780 Then you
00:19:38.240 go,
00:19:38.460 okay,
00:19:39.280 if I have
00:19:39.940 this person
00:19:40.560 working at
00:19:41.280 home,
00:19:41.960 fine,
00:19:42.940 right?
00:19:43.240 And you
00:19:43.520 go,
00:19:43.840 have a
00:19:44.120 conversation
00:19:44.540 with them.
00:19:45.100 I know
00:19:45.540 individuals that
00:19:46.420 are far more
00:19:47.060 productive working
00:19:47.920 from home and
00:19:48.560 they work in
00:19:48.940 the private
00:19:49.240 sector than
00:19:50.620 they are when
00:19:51.240 they go into
00:19:51.800 office because,
00:19:52.980 like you said,
00:19:53.460 they're carrying
00:19:54.020 that whole,
00:19:54.620 like,
00:19:55.320 four hours of
00:19:56.080 wasted resource.
00:19:57.200 So while they're
00:19:57.780 there saying,
00:19:58.400 I could have done
00:19:58.900 this work at
00:19:59.640 home,
00:19:59.940 but you just
00:20:00.660 wanted me to
00:20:01.080 plop in a chair.
00:20:01.860 there's zero value.
00:20:03.140 Well,
00:20:03.280 that's the
00:20:03.740 architect.
00:20:05.380 If you're the
00:20:06.200 architect of
00:20:06.980 this design,
00:20:07.980 that is your
00:20:08.760 responsibility where
00:20:09.940 you look at it and
00:20:10.700 go from department
00:20:11.360 to,
00:20:11.580 okay,
00:20:11.620 which components
00:20:12.360 are asynchronous
00:20:12.960 because you
00:20:13.800 created these
00:20:14.520 departments to
00:20:15.100 function.
00:20:15.960 You can't
00:20:16.540 just abolish
00:20:17.100 them.
00:20:18.200 Where economics
00:20:18.840 and psychology
00:20:19.960 meet on this
00:20:21.120 probably is where
00:20:22.320 the solution
00:20:22.840 lies.
00:20:23.600 Right,
00:20:23.880 because you're
00:20:24.300 looking at it
00:20:24.860 from a
00:20:25.620 humanistic and
00:20:27.020 pragmatic way
00:20:28.600 because we
00:20:29.100 all look at
00:20:30.940 that.
00:20:31.320 You know what I
00:20:31.600 mean?
00:20:31.800 Like,
00:20:31.980 I have a
00:20:32.300 philosophy and
00:20:32.800 it's a
00:20:33.020 personal
00:20:33.220 philosophy and
00:20:33.900 I call it
00:20:34.280 the math of
00:20:34.740 things.
00:20:36.100 Everything,
00:20:36.940 if you can
00:20:37.400 find a way
00:20:38.040 to,
00:20:38.580 and I use
00:20:39.180 the scale
00:20:39.560 even for my
00:20:40.040 personal self
00:20:40.580 because I kind
00:20:41.120 of know,
00:20:41.420 okay,
00:20:42.000 you know,
00:20:42.280 what am I
00:20:42.640 feeling?
00:20:43.260 And usually
00:20:43.740 if I'm on the
00:20:44.280 bottom end of
00:20:44.760 the spectrum,
00:20:45.440 it's more like
00:20:46.220 physical feelings.
00:20:47.120 Like,
00:20:47.240 I'm not motivated.
00:20:48.200 I can't get out
00:20:48.760 of bed.
00:20:49.940 One more
00:20:50.600 rep,
00:20:50.920 whatever,
00:20:51.520 right?
00:20:52.040 And then I
00:20:52.800 don't just
00:20:53.460 force myself,
00:20:54.180 oh,
00:20:54.380 get to the
00:20:54.780 other side.
00:20:55.520 I kind
00:20:55.780 of go,
00:20:56.080 okay,
00:20:56.180 what's the
00:20:56.980 contributing
00:20:57.400 factor,
00:20:58.180 right?
00:20:58.480 Like,
00:20:58.980 or if I'm
00:20:59.540 on the
00:20:59.680 other side
00:21:00.120 and I'm
00:21:00.400 like overly
00:21:00.940 anxious and
00:21:01.620 like,
00:21:01.920 you know,
00:21:02.280 like I
00:21:02.840 can't get
00:21:03.240 myself
00:21:03.540 grounded.
00:21:04.200 Well,
00:21:04.460 okay,
00:21:05.280 why am I
00:21:06.100 here?
00:21:06.780 But I,
00:21:07.520 what I do
00:21:08.240 is I,
00:21:08.560 I look at
00:21:09.200 it from
00:21:09.480 an individual
00:21:10.060 or that
00:21:10.640 individual
00:21:11.100 experience
00:21:11.660 lens,
00:21:12.460 right?
00:21:12.840 So,
00:21:13.460 for example,
00:21:14.500 I offer
00:21:15.500 in person,
00:21:17.200 online,
00:21:17.960 and phone,
00:21:19.240 okay?
00:21:20.280 I have
00:21:21.120 clients that
00:21:22.160 are very,
00:21:23.060 I don't
00:21:26.540 want to
00:21:26.740 use the
00:21:27.000 word
00:21:27.120 traditional,
00:21:27.820 but prefer.
00:21:29.180 I think
00:21:29.480 that's a
00:21:29.740 better word.
00:21:30.320 They prefer
00:21:31.080 in-person
00:21:31.940 experiences,
00:21:33.380 okay?
00:21:34.120 I have
00:21:34.720 clients that
00:21:35.400 prefer
00:21:35.840 Zoom
00:21:36.640 experiences
00:21:37.380 because they
00:21:38.160 believe that
00:21:39.040 the amount
00:21:39.600 of time
00:21:39.980 they're going
00:21:40.340 to spend
00:21:40.760 coming to
00:21:41.440 the office
00:21:41.940 and then
00:21:42.300 going back
00:21:42.720 home is
00:21:43.760 not worth
00:21:44.420 the time
00:21:45.040 they're going
00:21:45.300 to spend.
00:21:45.640 No,
00:21:45.760 I'll be
00:21:46.020 honest with
00:21:46.520 you.
00:21:46.960 By the
00:21:47.300 time I
00:21:47.700 get to
00:21:48.000 your
00:21:48.200 office,
00:21:48.900 it's 20
00:21:49.740 minutes for
00:21:50.120 me to
00:21:50.320 cool down
00:21:50.740 from traffic.
00:21:51.680 I leave
00:21:52.420 your office
00:21:53.060 and then
00:21:53.780 by the
00:21:54.500 time it's
00:21:55.040 all gone,
00:21:55.760 all the
00:21:56.340 good you
00:21:56.660 did by
00:21:57.200 the time
00:21:57.600 I get
00:21:58.000 out of
00:21:58.240 traffic has
00:21:59.420 long expired.
00:22:00.820 Right,
00:22:00.960 and that's
00:22:01.320 a perfect
00:22:01.740 example where
00:22:02.660 I have to
00:22:03.240 now work
00:22:04.040 with what's
00:22:04.780 in front
00:22:05.080 of me,
00:22:05.920 right?
00:22:06.680 And perhaps,
00:22:08.240 so I've
00:22:08.700 had this
00:22:09.180 experience where
00:22:09.920 I had this
00:22:10.560 one client and
00:22:11.420 they were
00:22:11.720 insistent that
00:22:13.600 they get a
00:22:14.300 way better
00:22:15.100 experience of
00:22:16.300 coming into
00:22:17.000 the office
00:22:17.420 because they
00:22:17.760 like that
00:22:18.280 discipline
00:22:18.700 because it
00:22:19.220 made them
00:22:19.720 get out of
00:22:20.200 the house.
00:22:20.680 I can
00:22:21.120 see that
00:22:21.700 becomes a
00:22:22.780 bigger
00:22:23.040 experience for
00:22:23.820 them.
00:22:24.100 Right.
00:22:24.420 But then
00:22:25.180 they kind
00:22:26.880 of experience
00:22:27.300 what you
00:22:27.660 just said,
00:22:28.260 you know,
00:22:28.540 where it's
00:22:29.580 lost 20
00:22:30.300 minutes out.
00:22:31.080 Yeah.
00:22:31.360 Right.
00:22:31.800 So one
00:22:33.140 day I'm
00:22:33.400 like,
00:22:33.740 well,
00:22:34.120 why don't
00:22:34.740 we humor
00:22:36.540 each other
00:22:37.120 and let's
00:22:37.980 try a
00:22:40.620 non-office
00:22:41.520 session?
00:22:42.900 And then
00:22:43.520 I go,
00:22:44.020 you get
00:22:44.300 Fielder's
00:22:45.060 Choice
00:22:45.420 online or
00:22:46.960 on the
00:22:47.160 phone.
00:22:48.820 They're
00:22:49.180 like,
00:22:49.380 you know
00:22:49.500 what,
00:22:49.660 let's
00:22:49.860 try on
00:22:50.240 the
00:22:50.340 phone.
00:22:53.180 The
00:22:53.540 next
00:22:53.940 follow-up
00:22:54.620 session,
00:22:55.040 we were
00:22:55.240 going to
00:22:55.440 do like
00:22:55.800 a little
00:22:56.180 bit of
00:22:56.560 a feedback
00:22:57.400 and I
00:22:57.760 like,
00:22:58.020 did it
00:22:58.460 work?
00:22:58.700 Did it
00:22:58.840 not work?
00:23:00.320 And that
00:23:01.660 individual's
00:23:02.240 like,
00:23:02.740 I don't know
00:23:03.160 why I never
00:23:03.480 tried this.
00:23:04.260 Right.
00:23:04.880 And I
00:23:05.360 go,
00:23:05.560 what did
00:23:05.860 you enjoy
00:23:06.320 about it?
00:23:06.820 There was
00:23:07.120 the fact
00:23:07.820 that I
00:23:08.400 could stay
00:23:08.900 in my
00:23:09.280 jammies
00:23:09.800 and minute
00:23:11.080 I was done
00:23:11.640 with your
00:23:11.940 appointment,
00:23:12.700 I was
00:23:13.060 already
00:23:13.540 home.
00:23:14.160 I was
00:23:14.640 able to
00:23:14.980 actually
00:23:15.260 continue
00:23:15.980 the work
00:23:16.420 we
00:23:16.580 created.
00:23:17.600 That's
00:23:17.980 what I
00:23:18.220 think.
00:23:18.560 I think
00:23:18.820 that if
00:23:19.120 you can
00:23:19.600 stay in
00:23:20.200 that state
00:23:20.580 of mind
00:23:20.960 for a
00:23:21.300 period of
00:23:21.640 time,
00:23:21.940 it has
00:23:22.240 better
00:23:23.400 effects
00:23:23.900 on you.
00:23:24.500 And I
00:23:24.620 will tell
00:23:24.940 you,
00:23:25.200 personally,
00:23:25.600 I've
00:23:25.780 never
00:23:26.020 had,
00:23:27.240 well,
00:23:27.600 I am
00:23:27.860 married
00:23:28.100 to a
00:23:28.460 psychotherapist
00:23:29.200 and in
00:23:29.880 all honesty,
00:23:30.680 I probably
00:23:31.440 get a lot
00:23:32.020 of treatment
00:23:32.480 every day,
00:23:33.500 but officially
00:23:34.700 I've only
00:23:35.360 ever done
00:23:36.220 it online
00:23:36.760 and I
00:23:38.100 can't
00:23:38.360 imagine
00:23:38.700 doing it
00:23:39.100 any other
00:23:39.420 way.
00:23:39.640 And I
00:23:39.720 think
00:23:39.840 there's
00:23:40.020 a whole
00:23:40.260 generation
00:23:40.880 that's
00:23:41.240 experiencing
00:23:41.900 that.
00:23:42.360 Well,
00:23:42.600 look,
00:23:42.760 I'll tell
00:23:43.000 you this.
00:23:44.520 I think
00:23:45.180 this is just
00:23:45.820 my opinion.
00:23:46.440 I think
00:23:46.720 back to
00:23:47.080 work is
00:23:47.280 going to
00:23:47.400 be tough
00:23:47.740 for some
00:23:48.100 people.
00:23:48.540 Some
00:23:48.660 people
00:23:48.960 could not
00:23:49.760 wait for
00:23:50.860 this to
00:23:51.220 happen,
00:23:51.660 I think.
00:23:52.280 Not that
00:23:52.600 they wanted
00:23:52.940 COVID,
00:23:53.720 but an
00:23:54.020 opportunity
00:23:54.500 to be in
00:23:55.680 the place
00:23:56.300 they work
00:23:56.780 the best
00:23:57.280 and works
00:23:57.900 best for
00:23:58.320 their life.
00:23:59.200 And I
00:23:59.380 think that
00:23:59.680 there's
00:23:59.880 going to
00:24:00.200 be some
00:24:00.480 trauma
00:24:00.840 associated
00:24:01.420 with changing
00:24:02.000 that.
00:24:02.740 I hope
00:24:02.920 people reach
00:24:03.480 out to
00:24:03.800 their
00:24:04.020 psychotherapist
00:24:05.320 or somebody,
00:24:06.140 a friend,
00:24:06.580 or somebody
00:24:06.980 at work to
00:24:07.460 talk to
00:24:07.940 about this
00:24:08.560 because you're
00:24:09.320 not going
00:24:09.560 to be
00:24:09.740 alone.
00:24:10.680 If people
00:24:11.360 wanted to
00:24:11.800 reach out
00:24:12.320 and maybe
00:24:13.560 there is
00:24:14.780 somebody that's
00:24:15.300 going through
00:24:15.620 this transition
00:24:16.320 shortly that
00:24:17.020 could be
00:24:17.540 saved some
00:24:19.680 time and
00:24:20.220 hassle and
00:24:21.080 feel better
00:24:21.660 about the
00:24:22.080 process if
00:24:22.680 they speak
00:24:23.020 to you,
00:24:23.220 where could
00:24:23.480 they do
00:24:23.720 that?
00:24:24.420 So the
00:24:25.520 website is
00:24:26.180 horizonwithin.ca
00:24:27.500 and you
00:24:29.620 could go
00:24:30.080 online and
00:24:30.780 then I
00:24:31.140 offer a
00:24:31.600 15-minute
00:24:32.160 consult that
00:24:33.660 you can sign
00:24:34.460 up for and
00:24:35.040 we can have
00:24:35.420 a brief
00:24:35.900 chat about
00:24:37.440 what it
00:24:38.160 is that
00:24:38.420 you're
00:24:38.560 experiencing
00:24:38.960 in terms
00:24:39.380 of your
00:24:39.620 life
00:24:39.780 transition
00:24:40.200 and some
00:24:40.960 of the
00:24:41.140 stuff that
00:24:41.440 we talked
00:24:41.780 about is
00:24:42.100 basically the
00:24:43.940 way I try
00:24:44.480 to work with
00:24:44.920 clients is I
00:24:45.480 try to see
00:24:45.940 where they
00:24:46.320 are and I
00:24:47.200 try to see
00:24:47.680 which items
00:24:48.740 they value
00:24:49.460 now that
00:24:49.960 for them
00:24:50.740 it's a
00:24:51.320 very big
00:24:51.820 cost to
00:24:52.220 give up
00:24:52.420 because that's
00:24:52.920 where their
00:24:53.240 source of
00:24:53.660 anxiety is.
00:24:54.220 You're trying
00:24:54.480 to understand
00:24:55.040 how do I
00:24:56.000 now modify
00:24:57.420 this because
00:24:59.880 that's what
00:25:00.360 it is.
00:25:00.840 You're
00:25:01.220 modifying it.
00:25:01.940 You're not
00:25:02.200 giving something
00:25:02.900 up.
00:25:03.300 You're adapting
00:25:03.900 and to add
00:25:05.260 to the point
00:25:05.780 that we talked
00:25:06.240 about how do
00:25:06.700 you bring it
00:25:07.440 15,000 people?
00:25:08.640 How do you
00:25:08.920 bring it down
00:25:09.340 to X value
00:25:10.060 number of
00:25:10.420 employees?
00:25:11.000 The same
00:25:11.480 way that we
00:25:11.920 were having
00:25:12.200 the conversation
00:25:12.760 where it's
00:25:13.240 up to the
00:25:13.740 practitioner
00:25:14.280 or here
00:25:15.140 the human
00:25:15.800 the architect
00:25:16.520 to go
00:25:17.600 okay what
00:25:18.740 am I doing
00:25:19.280 and then
00:25:19.900 working with
00:25:20.860 that team
00:25:21.380 working with
00:25:22.160 that department
00:25:22.700 yes it's a
00:25:23.460 little bit
00:25:23.740 of work
00:25:24.060 but you're
00:25:24.800 doing it
00:25:25.220 for the
00:25:25.500 long term
00:25:26.060 you're doing
00:25:26.520 it for the
00:25:26.920 long game
00:25:27.340 that is
00:25:28.040 your
00:25:28.420 responsibility
00:25:29.080 for being
00:25:29.940 in that
00:25:30.340 position
00:25:30.740 of power
00:25:31.440 you know
00:25:32.300 and like
00:25:32.820 they say
00:25:33.200 with great
00:25:33.660 powers
00:25:34.180 comes great
00:25:34.760 responsibilities
00:25:35.440 Sam
00:25:36.680 thank you so
00:25:37.620 much
00:25:37.820 you're a great
00:25:38.420 guy to talk
00:25:38.960 to
00:25:39.240 and I bet
00:25:40.820 that you're
00:25:41.280 just an amazing
00:25:42.280 psychotherapist
00:25:43.040 on that basis
00:25:43.720 so thank you
00:25:44.380 so much
00:25:44.840 I'll put the
00:25:45.920 link to reach
00:25:47.560 out to Sam
00:25:48.060 in the description
00:25:49.420 for today's show
00:25:50.140 but I want to say
00:25:50.660 thank you very much
00:25:51.340 for joining us
00:25:52.080 don't forget to
00:25:53.120 subscribe
00:25:53.640 tell a friend
00:25:54.540 like or dislike
00:25:56.140 you know
00:25:57.120 you hurt my
00:25:57.520 feelings sometimes
00:25:58.200 but that's okay
00:25:58.840 I can't grow the
00:25:59.580 hair back
00:25:59.980 I tried everything
00:26:01.200 but we would love
00:26:02.180 you to stay with
00:26:03.240 us and certainly
00:26:04.380 interact in any
00:26:05.680 way you'd like
00:26:06.220 it's important to
00:26:07.000 us
00:26:07.120 thanks
00:26:07.340 we'll see you
00:26:07.660 next time
00:26:08.080 we'll see you
00:26:09.740 next time
00:26:10.080 we'll see you
00:26:11.020 next time
00:26:11.220 we'll see you
00:26:12.020 next time
00:26:13.020 you