True Patriot Love

00:00:00.040 Well, we're starting to hear that it's back-to-work time.

00:00:03.120 Yep, the kids just went back to school,

00:00:04.740 but major corporations across the country

00:00:06.880 are starting to notify their employees at all levels

00:00:10.820 that it's time to come back to work.

00:00:12.540 The work-at-home process seems to be winding down

00:00:15.460 for a lot of corporations.

00:00:16.860 Now, I'm not gonna lie to you,

00:00:18.380 my first reaction to this one was, 0.92

00:00:20.360 suck it up, buttercup, you have to go to work. 0.99

00:00:22.520 But the truth is, it probably is going to have impact 0.99

00:00:25.800 on people's lives that got comfortable working from home,

00:00:29.180 made arrangements, created new ways to live.

00:00:33.040 And today, we're gonna find out more about that

00:00:35.080 as we speak with my good friend, Sim.

00:00:43.780 Sim, thank you so much for joining us.

00:00:46.760 Psychotherapist right here in town,

00:00:48.400 not too far from our studios,

00:00:50.080 and a guy I've gotten to know through your own podcast,

00:00:54.040 which is very good, by the way.

00:00:56.040 Tell us a little bit about your psychotherapy practice.

00:00:59.180 So, the practice is called Horizon Within.

00:01:01.880 It's right out of Port Credit,

00:01:03.540 and basically, I focus on people

00:01:06.100 that are going through life transitions,

00:01:08.640 anxiety management, depression management,

00:01:11.340 self-development.

00:01:13.180 And, by the way, I've discovered,

00:01:15.300 the reason that you're here is that,

00:01:17.200 you know, you meet some psychotherapists,

00:01:19.960 they have certain attitudes and approaches.

00:01:22.240 Yours is very conversational, very chat-like,

00:01:26.300 and I thought you'd be a really good person

00:01:28.380 to contact and have a conversation about this topic.

00:01:32.120 People are going back to work.

00:01:33.880 People that had worked from home

00:01:35.740 and created a home office

00:01:37.160 and a way of getting the kids to and from,

00:01:40.100 and now some of the big corporations

00:01:42.240 right here in Canada are saying,

00:01:43.540 okay, but everybody's got to come back to work.

00:01:46.080 COVID is long over,

00:01:47.220 and we need this interaction again.

00:01:49.840 What are your thoughts, first of all,

00:01:51.260 on companies doing that after all this time?

00:01:54.060 So, there's two sides to that coin, right?

00:01:57.800 And what's happening is we're hearing opposing,

00:02:01.280 people taking opposing positions,

00:02:03.560 and then it's kind of like an opinion where,

00:02:06.220 whoa, I mean, it's a job,

00:02:07.660 or, you know, it's convenience,

00:02:09.580 or it's, you know, work productivity,

00:02:12.300 or, you know, one of the things

00:02:13.780 that I was thinking about is,

00:02:15.060 and this is putting on a tinfoil hat

00:02:17.660 and saying, you know,

00:02:18.960 you always have other incentives or motives, right?

00:02:26.180 Like, so, for example, you know,

00:02:28.260 when you look at the downtown core

00:02:29.340 and they did a study and they're like,

00:02:30.860 you know, with occupancy down,

00:02:32.660 you have all these auxiliary businesses

00:02:34.280 that are hurting.

00:02:35.340 So, now all of a sudden, you know,

00:02:37.120 it could be,

00:02:38.080 and I'm just going to go on a limb here,

00:02:39.860 the restaurant association saying,

00:02:41.640 hey, look, you know,

00:02:42.880 we have an entire industry

00:02:44.240 that's losing 40% money

00:02:45.960 because, you know,

00:02:47.560 a person that went to work ate lunch

00:02:50.420 or they went out for dinner afterwards.

00:02:52.120 That's a good point.

00:02:53.100 Or, you know, you had company meetings

00:02:55.120 and there's an entire catering industry

00:02:57.840 that's kind of disappearing.

00:02:59.220 Well, not to mention the real estate industry,

00:03:02.120 the building developers,

00:03:03.860 the condo owners,

00:03:05.520 all of these people

00:03:06.320 that would make the core viable,

00:03:07.700 more viable.

00:03:08.580 So, you have all these lobbyists

00:03:09.940 and what better way to market their needs

00:03:13.380 by just niching and saying,

00:03:15.080 well, you know,

00:03:15.460 you need to get these people back to work

00:03:17.120 and how do you force someone back?

00:03:20.580 Right.

00:03:20.960 So, it's basically what I'm noticing

00:03:23.540 is that, you know,

00:03:24.740 you have all these moving parts,

00:03:26.140 but the person that's stuck in the middle

00:03:28.740 is the individual

00:03:29.900 and what you just kind of mentioned earlier

00:03:31.720 where, you know,

00:03:33.320 they created this new life, right?

00:03:35.840 And they have a newfound appreciation

00:03:37.600 for their value of time.

00:03:39.700 So, I'll give you an example.

00:03:41.280 You know, you could have had an individual,

00:03:43.400 right,

00:03:44.120 that fed off being in people-centric environments

00:03:48.080 and for them,

00:03:49.620 work was identity.

00:03:51.920 And then you have this work-from-home mandate

00:03:54.520 that got instilled about five years ago

00:03:56.380 and, you know,

00:03:58.220 they realized over time

00:03:59.640 that that new time value that they got

00:04:03.120 is worth more than anything else

00:04:05.600 that they have.

00:04:07.580 Yeah.

00:04:08.180 Well, now, one,

00:04:09.040 they're trying to interpret that for themselves

00:04:10.900 because they've discovered something

00:04:12.300 that's valuable to them

00:04:14.080 that actually improves their productivity

00:04:16.520 and quality of life.

00:04:17.440 So, it actually gives them that balance.

00:04:20.100 In life?

00:04:21.340 Overall,

00:04:22.040 because a company's true incentive

00:04:24.780 for any employee

00:04:25.940 is greater return on productivity, right?

00:04:30.060 So, for every one unit input in pay,

00:04:33.380 there's an expectation

00:04:34.260 of at least 0.25% greater back.

00:04:37.140 Right.

00:04:37.700 That's in the theoretical world.

00:04:40.160 Now, companies can't quantify that

00:04:42.160 because then they come across

00:04:43.120 as being insensitive, right?

00:04:44.800 Because now,

00:04:45.320 how do you quantify a person's being?

00:04:47.720 Right.

00:04:48.140 That's a good point, too.

00:04:49.480 At your time,

00:04:50.260 your life has a value to you

00:04:52.760 that cannot be quantified.

00:04:54.460 And that's where I think

00:04:56.600 where the polls

00:04:57.660 or these margins

00:04:58.460 are being presented.

00:04:59.720 So, one of the things

00:05:02.880 that I work with

00:05:03.600 when I work with somebody

00:05:04.720 that's going through

00:05:05.220 life transition

00:05:05.800 is you kind of look at it

00:05:07.740 through a spectrum, right?

00:05:09.260 And you go,

00:05:10.140 okay,

00:05:10.800 either I am completely willing

00:05:13.000 and I'm excited on change

00:05:15.520 and that's one edge of the spectrum

00:05:17.300 and on the other is,

00:05:19.440 ugh,

00:05:20.300 you're going to need,

00:05:21.460 you know,

00:05:21.880 going to have to take me

00:05:22.700 by the nails, right?

00:05:23.600 Like, just pull me,

00:05:24.460 yank me, 0.82

00:05:24.800 I'm not moving.

00:05:25.440 So, those are your edges, right?

00:05:27.500 And then right in the middle

00:05:28.680 is like,

00:05:29.300 meh,

00:05:30.540 come see, come saw.

00:05:31.560 Right.

00:05:31.920 So, a minute,

00:05:32.720 you kind of go,

00:05:33.380 okay,

00:05:33.500 where do I usually sit?

00:05:35.360 So, in mental health,

00:05:36.540 you kind of go,

00:05:37.220 okay,

00:05:37.440 if I sit on the bottom

00:05:38.780 part of that spectrum,

00:05:39.940 so that means

00:05:40.360 change is not my friend,

00:05:42.680 right?

00:05:43.000 And I'm not ever

00:05:44.360 going to be indifferent about it.

00:05:45.380 So, I sit somewhere

00:05:46.100 here in the middle.

00:05:46.940 Right.

00:05:47.240 And on the other side

00:05:48.020 of the spectrum,

00:05:48.640 it's like,

00:05:49.700 I get excited with change,

00:05:51.860 but, you know,

00:05:53.420 I'm never going to be

00:05:54.760 indifferent about it.

00:05:55.700 So, what happens is,

00:05:56.480 on this side

00:05:57.400 of the spectrum,

00:05:58.220 the bottom part,

00:05:59.820 you're going to see

00:06:01.020 more of like,

00:06:02.140 right?

00:06:03.860 Like,

00:06:04.160 the motivation's gone,

00:06:06.600 things are heavy,

00:06:07.880 the world seems

00:06:08.500 a little bit more blue,

00:06:10.100 right?

00:06:10.540 On this other side

00:06:11.420 of the spectrum,

00:06:11.860 you're going to see

00:06:12.380 more like angst,

00:06:13.800 acceleration in thoughts.

00:06:15.580 You know,

00:06:16.140 even the thought of change

00:06:18.260 kind of like propels

00:06:19.140 your being,

00:06:19.600 and all of a sudden

00:06:20.100 everything's a blur,

00:06:20.980 and it's a spin cycle.

00:06:22.460 So,

00:06:23.180 in terms of mental health,

00:06:25.060 a lot of people,

00:06:26.560 you know,

00:06:26.800 once they realize,

00:06:27.600 hey,

00:06:27.760 where do I sit

00:06:28.520 in that spectrum?

00:06:30.240 Then,

00:06:30.720 what it does is,

00:06:31.300 it allows them to then

00:06:32.040 see where the change

00:06:33.720 needs to happen.

00:06:34.460 So,

00:06:34.640 for example,

00:06:35.600 take this individual

00:06:36.460 that appreciates

00:06:37.540 their quality of time.

00:06:38.960 Well,

00:06:39.520 before that realization,

00:06:40.560 they would have sat here

00:06:41.460 where excitement of change,

00:06:43.180 because they're going back

00:06:43.860 to something they like,

00:06:44.980 would be the true change.

00:06:46.880 So,

00:06:46.980 now all of a sudden,

00:06:47.520 they're like,

00:06:47.820 they're getting anxious,

00:06:48.780 but it's anticipatory

00:06:49.960 anxiousness to something

00:06:51.400 they like.

00:06:52.200 That's interesting.

00:06:53.920 Right?

00:06:54.380 But now,

00:06:55.340 because they appreciate

00:06:56.200 their time,

00:06:57.240 they have an aversion

00:06:58.640 to what they used to like.

00:07:01.520 Which must be

00:07:02.520 a complex feeling

00:07:03.780 within you.

00:07:04.840 This was the core

00:07:05.880 of my existence before,

00:07:07.320 and my driving force.

00:07:08.580 I adapted to this.

00:07:09.940 I found this new thing.

00:07:11.340 Yeah.

00:07:12.740 Maybe I'm wrong,

00:07:13.880 but going home for COVID

00:07:15.920 was an adaptation

00:07:17.420 people either made

00:07:18.780 with a certain amount

00:07:20.040 of discipline and ease

00:07:21.280 or resisted horribly

00:07:23.760 or lived underneath a rock.

00:07:27.100 And those seem to be

00:07:28.060 all the different parts

00:07:28.960 of the spectrum

00:07:29.600 that you're talking about.

00:07:31.480 I would imagine

00:07:32.200 the people that really

00:07:33.420 wanted to be sociable

00:07:34.880 and work better,

00:07:36.980 integrated with other people,

00:07:38.740 have long since,

00:07:39.800 I mean,

00:07:40.060 this is some years later,

00:07:41.940 have long since

00:07:42.600 found other careers

00:07:43.380 where they can find themselves

00:07:45.480 integrating in the physical sense

00:07:47.560 with people at work.

00:07:48.320 True, but the minute we get

00:07:50.960 into how they changed

00:07:52.280 and all of that,

00:07:53.000 it dilutes the true measure

00:07:55.000 of what they're feeling.

00:07:56.840 So what this does

00:07:58.740 is it brings it

00:07:59.640 to the individual.

00:08:01.040 Because once the individual

00:08:02.640 understands where the shift

00:08:04.820 is going towards

00:08:05.800 and where they are,

00:08:07.580 it allows them to then

00:08:08.660 conceptualize

00:08:10.220 what they're feeling.

00:08:12.500 So like you said,

00:08:13.600 you know,

00:08:13.940 okay, I've created this life.

00:08:15.140 So I've found a way to adapt

00:08:16.120 because we're looking

00:08:17.220 at four years now.

00:08:18.200 Four years is a long time.

00:08:19.720 It's a long time.

00:08:20.980 And for anybody,

00:08:22.940 there's not a person on Earth,

00:08:24.580 and this is entirely

00:08:25.440 the global thing,

00:08:26.440 you know,

00:08:26.680 we experience a phenomenon

00:08:27.960 that we will never,

00:08:29.320 ever experience again.

00:08:30.300 Hopefully.

00:08:32.460 Fingers crossed or not.

00:08:33.760 But the point is,

00:08:34.580 this is that we had to change

00:08:36.520 in a way that we'd never imagined.

00:08:38.920 Yeah.

00:08:39.140 Right?

00:08:39.560 So now,

00:08:41.220 to many,

00:08:43.180 what it is,

00:08:44.440 is it's a silent trigger.

00:08:45.920 Because now it's like,

00:08:46.860 I have to re-change

00:08:48.160 what I had to change to.

00:08:49.600 Right.

00:08:50.140 But now I started to like it.

00:08:52.120 I'm enjoying it.

00:08:53.300 Because it's shown me

00:08:54.380 that that hour and a half

00:08:55.800 that I used to spend in the car,

00:08:57.560 all of a sudden,

00:08:58.340 compounded over a week,

00:08:59.860 is almost seven hours.

00:09:01.840 Well, let's touch on that.

00:09:03.300 Now I spend a lot of time

00:09:04.360 in the car.

00:09:05.460 Traffic is not easy in Toronto

00:09:07.180 and major centers across Canada

00:09:08.700 and the U.S.,

00:09:09.500 we're finding the same thing.

00:09:11.120 Toronto traffic are on par,

00:09:12.660 apparently,

00:09:13.080 with Mexico City at the moment.

00:09:14.460 That's wild,

00:09:15.700 based on our population.

00:09:18.440 By the time that I get home,

00:09:20.260 I'm ready to take a bite

00:09:21.860 out of the asphalt

00:09:22.740 in my driveway.

00:09:23.980 Yeah.

00:09:24.960 Arriving home with that kind of energy,

00:09:27.680 or to work with that kind of energy,

00:09:30.420 it sounds like it might be

00:09:31.860 counterproductive to both life and work.

00:09:34.020 Right.

00:09:34.420 Now there might be

00:09:36.600 a necessity to that,

00:09:37.920 right?

00:09:38.280 So now what you could do

00:09:40.100 is you could say,

00:09:40.780 okay,

00:09:41.780 that is a forced necessity

00:09:44.340 that I can't negotiate against.

00:09:46.740 Right.

00:09:47.500 So there's an acceptance.

00:09:48.480 In other words,

00:09:49.080 I have to accept that reality,

00:09:51.200 whether I like it or not.

00:09:52.700 Well,

00:09:53.120 I have to accept that reality

00:09:54.520 and what can I do with it?

00:09:56.660 I recommend listening

00:09:57.620 to podcasts, actually.

00:09:59.360 Right.

00:09:59.560 But once you're out of your car,

00:10:01.020 it better be going with you.

00:10:03.520 See,

00:10:04.400 you know,

00:10:06.660 in my profession,

00:10:08.120 one of the most challenging things

00:10:09.880 is that how do you change

00:10:11.600 the interpretation

00:10:13.120 that we give to a word?

00:10:14.740 Right.

00:10:16.020 And that makes a big difference.

00:10:17.840 Now,

00:10:17.980 I'm not an advocate

00:10:18.720 for taking a word out

00:10:22.560 or saying you can't use that word,

00:10:24.060 but it makes a big difference.

00:10:25.680 Because,

00:10:26.700 say,

00:10:26.880 for example,

00:10:28.040 you know,

00:10:29.280 I have to accept it

00:10:30.460 whether I like it or not.

00:10:32.740 Internally,

00:10:33.660 that's a forced choice.

00:10:37.420 I'm not giving myself a choice.

00:10:39.820 Right.

00:10:40.060 But when you take a step back

00:10:41.900 and you look at it and go,

00:10:43.400 that's a non-negotiable choice

00:10:44.900 because that's something

00:10:46.360 that I have to work with

00:10:48.200 whether I like it or not

00:10:49.940 because that is part of

00:10:51.260 the structure of the day.

00:10:53.060 Right.

00:10:53.560 So now you could be like,

00:10:54.720 okay,

00:10:54.800 what do I do with it?

00:10:56.700 Right.

00:10:56.980 So while you're in the car,

00:10:59.000 podcast is your resource now

00:11:01.200 because now you could say,

00:11:02.140 hey, look,

00:11:02.980 I know that I have an hour.

00:11:05.120 That is my hour.

00:11:06.280 Whether,

00:11:07.600 how can I utilize it?

00:11:09.020 Audiobook.

00:11:09.660 Get educated.

00:11:11.020 Spend time on the phone

00:11:12.040 with your parents

00:11:12.840 or a loved one

00:11:13.540 you don't get the time to otherwise.

00:11:15.200 Or you could practice meditation.

00:11:17.660 It's your time.

00:11:19.280 Please,

00:11:19.660 if you're practicing meditation,

00:11:21.240 let's still keep eyes

00:11:22.720 and hands on the wheel

00:11:24.600 and eyes on the road.

00:11:26.340 Right.

00:11:26.720 Well,

00:11:26.940 I'm not saying shavasana.

00:11:28.200 Oh,

00:11:28.440 okay,

00:11:28.660 okay.

00:11:29.380 I'm not saying shavasana.

00:11:30.400 Let's not leave our bodies,

00:11:31.600 everybody,

00:11:32.100 if we can,

00:11:32.540 yeah.

00:11:32.980 But you're right.

00:11:33.620 There's a meditative moment

00:11:34.800 and a certain amount of calm

00:11:37.300 that you can take on that.

00:11:39.220 So really,

00:11:39.920 what we're talking about

00:11:40.660 is making adaptations

00:11:41.800 to a new thing

00:11:43.240 that is an old thing

00:11:44.620 but recognizing

00:11:45.820 that your body,

00:11:46.860 your chemistry,

00:11:47.340 your mind,

00:11:47.820 and your spirit

00:11:48.520 have made adjustments

00:11:51.180 and your body,

00:11:52.560 we don't like to change,

00:11:53.480 I don't think.

00:11:54.720 We like changing

00:11:56.640 as long as we have

00:11:58.000 an awareness of the transition.

00:11:59.340 Think of it this way,

00:12:00.280 right?

00:12:00.780 Remember when

00:12:01.880 we had to go to school

00:12:03.200 the first day,

00:12:04.060 like JK first day?

00:12:05.960 I kind of remember it.

00:12:07.500 Those were the drinking days.

00:12:08.720 I wish I'd met you then.

00:12:12.500 It was more fun.

00:12:14.860 More look better,

00:12:15.800 didn't it?

00:12:16.120 Yeah.

00:12:16.620 Yeah.

00:12:17.640 The point is,

00:12:18.520 is that,

00:12:19.320 and you can even see it now,

00:12:20.560 right?

00:12:20.760 Like the kids

00:12:21.640 that are like,

00:12:22.560 oh,

00:12:22.940 it's going to be so much fun

00:12:24.180 and rah, rah, rah, rah. 0.98

00:12:25.600 Right?

00:12:26.140 They anticipate

00:12:26.940 the change differently.

00:12:28.080 Right.

00:12:28.220 Same thing with

00:12:28.760 when you went into grade school,

00:12:30.000 same thing when you into high school,

00:12:31.700 same thing when you,

00:12:32.440 right?

00:12:32.900 Life transitions,

00:12:34.000 as long as we have

00:12:34.680 an awareness to it,

00:12:35.700 it tends to become

00:12:36.620 a part of our lives.

00:12:38.660 When they're a little jarring,

00:12:40.200 COVID,

00:12:40.760 one of the most prime examples,

00:12:42.320 because it didn't matter

00:12:42.960 where you were

00:12:43.680 or who you were,

00:12:44.520 that was a unique life experience

00:12:46.120 that kiltered off everybody.

00:12:48.420 Yeah.

00:12:48.740 Okay.

00:12:49.140 But based on your upbringing

00:12:50.800 and your style of coping,

00:12:53.700 that's where now

00:12:54.740 the conversations become,

00:12:55.740 okay,

00:12:55.800 what did you do with it

00:12:56.480 and all of that X values.

00:12:57.780 Right?

00:12:58.340 So resistance to change,

00:13:00.580 it's common.

00:13:03.040 Adaptation to change

00:13:04.060 is common.

00:13:04.880 It's how we interpret either one.

00:13:08.540 And that's why

00:13:08.980 this spectrum comes in.

00:13:10.340 Because now all of a sudden,

00:13:11.800 irrelevance of like,

00:13:12.820 you may have had,

00:13:13.880 you know,

00:13:14.520 a choppy childhood,

00:13:16.440 right?

00:13:16.980 But you have a desire for change.

00:13:19.840 Or you could have had

00:13:20.820 the most smoothest childhood

00:13:22.020 and you have an aversion to change.

00:13:23.700 So you can fall anywhere

00:13:24.480 in the spectrum.

00:13:25.280 The idea of the spectrum,

00:13:26.660 I use that in clinic often,

00:13:28.180 is so that we both know

00:13:29.600 where you sit.

00:13:30.480 Right.

00:13:30.660 You can start to find

00:13:31.940 a better place on the map

00:13:32.900 for yourself.

00:13:33.640 Because the idea is

00:13:34.780 you have to go in a direction.

00:13:36.020 Ah, right.

00:13:37.220 And because now you have awareness,

00:13:38.900 there's no more 0.96

00:13:39.560 suck at a buttercup. 1.00

00:13:40.720 There's no I have to accept it. 1.00

00:13:42.020 There's more like,

00:13:42.740 okay,

00:13:44.100 what am I doing with it?

00:13:45.440 How am I maximizing

00:13:46.660 my resource

00:13:47.380 for what it is here?

00:13:49.140 That's a very tough,

00:13:50.680 that's a discipline

00:13:51.460 that you really would have to,

00:13:53.480 that I recommend people do

00:13:54.640 if they can.

00:13:56.440 If you're in that situation,

00:13:57.740 going back to work

00:13:58.560 and you hadn't been

00:13:59.180 for some time to the workplace,

00:14:01.980 yeah,

00:14:02.240 create a new plan

00:14:03.240 for what that looks like

00:14:04.300 in that transition for you

00:14:05.780 so that you can better

00:14:07.320 optimize life

00:14:08.340 in that bubble.

00:14:09.740 Now,

00:14:09.940 I'll tell you,

00:14:10.300 I do think

00:14:11.340 that there will be

00:14:13.120 added mental health days

00:14:15.820 as people go back to work.

00:14:17.600 I think that there will be

00:14:18.660 disruptions in productivity.

00:14:20.240 I do think that

00:14:21.040 the corporations

00:14:21.780 are still going to say,

00:14:23.200 well,

00:14:23.760 in that case,

00:14:24.440 you must work harder

00:14:25.380 or get into work earlier

00:14:26.700 or stay later.

00:14:27.920 And that might be

00:14:29.980 an adaptation

00:14:30.740 that people are not ready for,

00:14:32.340 that they were off the clock

00:14:33.960 at four o'clock

00:14:34.680 and in the backyard

00:14:35.640 and now they might have to work

00:14:37.800 till five o'clock

00:14:38.640 and then drive home.

00:14:40.060 That could have a serious impact

00:14:41.640 on society.

00:14:43.240 Right.

00:14:43.560 And so,

00:14:44.720 this is where,

00:14:46.500 you know,

00:14:47.360 if we're going to go

00:14:48.420 with the private sector,

00:14:49.460 right?

00:14:50.560 Even though it's a sector,

00:14:52.560 the architect

00:14:53.400 is still a human.

00:14:55.060 Right.

00:14:55.340 So,

00:14:56.200 if the human,

00:14:56.980 that's the architect,

00:14:58.440 also recognizes

00:14:59.480 that they have

00:15:01.080 a tendency to change

00:15:02.400 and acknowledge

00:15:03.520 that human factor

00:15:04.520 in them,

00:15:05.820 the design

00:15:06.580 and the structure

00:15:07.120 will automatically

00:15:07.800 have a human component.

00:15:09.000 Well,

00:15:09.120 see,

00:15:09.280 we adapted very quickly

00:15:10.420 when COVID came into play.

00:15:11.760 People were back at work

00:15:12.840 and in Zoom calls

00:15:14.460 within six months

00:15:15.340 and we were all

00:15:16.200 pretty much trying

00:15:16.760 to do our thing

00:15:17.340 in that new bubble.

00:15:18.400 Right.

00:15:18.720 I would imagine

00:15:19.300 the same thing will happen.

00:15:21.280 But the one thing

00:15:22.440 I will say is

00:15:23.100 I think once the pendulum,

00:15:24.740 and this is human nature,

00:15:25.780 once the pendulum swings

00:15:26.780 in a direction,

00:15:27.840 when it comes back,

00:15:29.040 it goes just as far

00:15:30.180 and sometimes further.

00:15:31.480 So,

00:15:31.960 depending on the trajectory

00:15:33.520 of where this goes,

00:15:35.740 I don't think that

00:15:37.080 there's immediately

00:15:38.200 a happy medium

00:15:39.180 for people in the workforce

00:15:40.380 going back to work

00:15:41.600 that's going to make them

00:15:42.560 feel great instantly

00:15:43.720 or not require

00:15:45.300 a certain amount

00:15:45.860 of adapting in life.

00:15:47.540 Right.

00:15:47.880 So,

00:15:48.380 I mean,

00:15:48.640 that's the opportunity cost,

00:15:50.160 right?

00:15:50.420 Like,

00:15:50.820 in a nutshell,

00:15:52.000 opportunity cost

00:15:52.660 is the cost

00:15:53.320 of giving something up

00:15:54.200 to get something,

00:15:54.940 right?

00:15:55.500 It's a Coles note.

00:15:56.740 Look it up.

00:15:57.380 It's probably

00:15:57.680 one of the most

00:15:58.460 transformational

00:16:00.560 theories out there,

00:16:03.260 right?

00:16:03.480 Because it allows you

00:16:04.260 to kind of understand,

00:16:05.140 you know,

00:16:05.380 for me to get something,

00:16:06.180 what do I have to give up?

00:16:07.040 Right.

00:16:07.140 And that is fundamentally

00:16:08.680 true of anything we do,

00:16:10.360 right?

00:16:11.280 But not to get caught

00:16:12.520 in the semantics of things,

00:16:13.920 you know,

00:16:14.200 you bring up a very good point.

00:16:15.800 It's this pendulum

00:16:18.540 that's swerving,

00:16:20.020 right?

00:16:20.180 Like,

00:16:20.400 from one polar end

00:16:21.260 to the other.

00:16:21.700 And people are trying

00:16:23.220 to find their middle.

00:16:24.440 Yeah.

00:16:24.760 Right?

00:16:25.000 Because at the end

00:16:25.740 of the day,

00:16:26.200 you know,

00:16:26.460 you kind of go,

00:16:27.020 okay,

00:16:27.180 how much on this

00:16:28.780 end of the shift

00:16:29.340 I'm okay with?

00:16:29.980 How much on that

00:16:30.520 end of the shift

00:16:31.060 I'm okay with?

00:16:31.780 And how do I fit with it

00:16:33.140 so it's consistent

00:16:33.840 across the board?

00:16:34.900 Right?

00:16:35.360 Now,

00:16:35.920 companies can kind of

00:16:36.740 be a little bit more

00:16:37.700 ingenious about it.

00:16:39.040 And they could be like,

00:16:39.620 okay,

00:16:40.440 what jobs

00:16:42.380 are asynchronous

00:16:43.240 that there is

00:16:44.600 no value

00:16:45.560 for them being

00:16:46.840 physically present

00:16:47.540 or not present?

00:16:48.360 Right.

00:16:48.500 And then you shake

00:16:49.920 the tree

00:16:50.280 and look,

00:16:51.620 this is not,

00:16:52.400 you can't go back

00:16:53.040 to what was

00:16:54.020 because there is

00:16:54.780 no was.

00:16:56.760 So you can take

00:16:57.800 essences of what was

00:16:59.000 and go,

00:16:59.680 okay,

00:16:59.960 how do we adapt

00:17:00.880 going forward?

00:17:01.720 What carries over?

00:17:03.020 And because there's

00:17:04.300 a human

00:17:04.960 in the archetype,

00:17:07.300 they look at it

00:17:08.200 from a human lens

00:17:09.440 rather than from

00:17:10.480 a business productivity

00:17:11.660 lens because

00:17:12.260 everything is good.

00:17:14.320 They have to remember

00:17:15.220 them.

00:17:15.640 Yeah.

00:17:16.100 Right?

00:17:16.380 Because at the end

00:17:16.900 of the day,

00:17:17.380 even in a corporation,

00:17:19.020 there's humans

00:17:19.800 that are working

00:17:20.400 in that corporation.

00:17:21.920 They're using

00:17:22.760 a systematic

00:17:24.360 approach

00:17:25.140 that strips

00:17:26.820 emotion out of it.

00:17:28.180 I have an

00:17:28.540 undergraduate in economics

00:17:29.420 so I understand

00:17:30.280 where the rational

00:17:31.120 for numbers come in.

00:17:32.140 Right.

00:17:32.840 And that's why

00:17:33.660 you have HR

00:17:34.520 because they bring

00:17:35.200 in the abstract.

00:17:36.260 Work collectively,

00:17:38.280 right?

00:17:38.580 Because if you're

00:17:39.100 productive,

00:17:39.840 you're productivity

00:17:40.540 driven,

00:17:41.780 the biggest thing

00:17:42.640 that's going to

00:17:43.120 interfere with

00:17:43.760 productivity

00:17:44.260 is mindset.

00:17:46.360 And if like

00:17:46.860 what you said

00:17:47.320 at the start,

00:17:48.100 if I'm not happy

00:17:50.700 being there,

00:17:51.620 you actually

00:17:52.340 are worse off

00:17:53.400 because now you

00:17:54.020 have somebody

00:17:54.580 sitting in that

00:17:55.540 chair that is

00:17:56.720 actually not

00:17:58.020 productive

00:17:58.520 and now you're

00:17:59.580 spending more money

00:18:00.240 to make them

00:18:00.780 feel happy.

00:18:02.140 So why not

00:18:02.760 design it

00:18:03.200 at the beginning?

00:18:04.340 Why not

00:18:04.780 account for

00:18:05.440 this elephant

00:18:05.860 in the room

00:18:06.360 and say,

00:18:06.720 hey, listen,

00:18:07.320 how do we

00:18:07.760 humanize this

00:18:08.460 experience?

00:18:09.300 Now, corporations

00:18:09.920 say, okay,

00:18:10.940 you went home

00:18:11.480 for COVID,

00:18:12.140 we made

00:18:12.480 accommodations

00:18:13.080 and that's

00:18:13.680 cost us

00:18:14.200 and we've

00:18:14.480 had to revamp

00:18:15.120 and everything,

00:18:15.520 but we've

00:18:15.820 got to get

00:18:16.340 back to

00:18:16.760 our normal

00:18:17.740 course of

00:18:18.300 business.

00:18:19.020 And I

00:18:20.400 think that

00:18:21.000 sentiment

00:18:21.600 creates an

00:18:22.760 anti-corporate

00:18:23.760 feel

00:18:24.260 among people.

00:18:25.460 Right.

00:18:26.400 Because

00:18:26.840 they're trying

00:18:29.160 to present

00:18:30.220 a point

00:18:30.920 that, hey,

00:18:32.280 look, we

00:18:32.680 accommodated

00:18:33.400 you,

00:18:34.320 we're just

00:18:34.880 telling you

00:18:35.960 we're restoring

00:18:36.560 it back to

00:18:37.120 how operations

00:18:37.740 work.

00:18:38.580 But that's

00:18:39.280 not a true

00:18:39.660 statement.

00:18:40.480 And the reason

00:18:40.940 why it's not

00:18:41.260 a true statement

00:18:41.740 is because you

00:18:42.280 genuinely didn't

00:18:42.920 accommodate

00:18:43.440 the individual,

00:18:45.520 you adapted

00:18:46.700 to the

00:18:47.240 environment

00:18:47.860 to stay

00:18:48.700 alive.

00:18:49.280 because the

00:18:50.600 mandates were

00:18:51.400 you couldn't

00:18:51.780 be in

00:18:52.100 office.

00:18:52.540 But do we

00:18:53.420 have to

00:18:53.940 think of

00:18:54.440 the individual

00:18:55.660 at a

00:18:56.580 corporate

00:18:56.860 level?

00:18:57.700 Absolutely.

00:18:58.600 How can

00:18:59.540 we possibly

00:19:00.300 think of

00:19:00.860 the individual

00:19:01.860 when there's

00:19:02.380 15,000

00:19:03.320 employed?

00:19:04.140 But collectively

00:19:05.120 they're all

00:19:05.640 sharing the

00:19:06.060 same angst.

00:19:07.540 It's a

00:19:07.860 change that

00:19:08.880 is individual

00:19:10.180 to them.

00:19:10.760 So you

00:19:10.960 look at it

00:19:11.420 and go,

00:19:11.800 okay,

00:19:12.420 you know,

00:19:13.140 which jobs

00:19:14.200 are asynchronous?

00:19:15.200 You can

00:19:15.560 shake the

00:19:16.040 tree a bit,

00:19:16.600 be a little

00:19:16.960 bit imaginative,

00:19:17.980 you know,

00:19:18.340 and go,

00:19:18.860 okay,

00:19:19.280 measure

00:19:20.080 productivity.

00:19:20.780 You have

00:19:20.940 a way of

00:19:21.260 measuring

00:19:21.480 productivity

00:19:22.000 and just

00:19:22.440 look at

00:19:22.720 productivity.

00:19:23.260 Don't look

00:19:23.540 at the

00:19:23.740 person,

00:19:24.080 what they're

00:19:24.360 doing or

00:19:24.680 who they

00:19:25.000 are,

00:19:25.240 whether they

00:19:25.580 work in

00:19:25.900 office or

00:19:26.340 they work

00:19:26.680 away.

00:19:27.360 If you

00:19:27.700 got to

00:19:27.940 do a

00:19:28.800 sterile way

00:19:32.680 of doing

00:19:32.980 math,

00:19:34.100 then productivity

00:19:35.500 is your

00:19:36.060 true marker,

00:19:37.340 right?

00:19:37.780 Then you

00:19:38.240 go,

00:19:38.460 okay,

00:19:39.280 if I have

00:19:39.940 this person

00:19:40.560 working at

00:19:41.280 home,

00:19:41.960 fine,

00:19:42.940 right?

00:19:43.240 And you

00:19:43.520 go,

00:19:43.840 have a

00:19:44.120 conversation

00:19:44.540 with them.

00:19:45.100 I know

00:19:45.540 individuals that

00:19:46.420 are far more

00:19:47.060 productive working

00:19:47.920 from home and

00:19:48.560 they work in

00:19:48.940 the private

00:19:49.240 sector than

00:19:50.620 they are when

00:19:51.240 they go into

00:19:51.800 office because,

00:19:52.980 like you said,

00:19:53.460 they're carrying

00:19:54.020 that whole,

00:19:54.620 like,

00:19:55.320 four hours of

00:19:56.080 wasted resource.

00:19:57.200 So while they're

00:19:57.780 there saying,

00:19:58.400 I could have done

00:19:58.900 this work at

00:19:59.640 home,

00:19:59.940 but you just

00:20:00.660 wanted me to

00:20:01.080 plop in a chair.

00:20:01.860 there's zero value.

00:20:03.140 Well,

00:20:03.280 that's the

00:20:03.740 architect.

00:20:05.380 If you're the

00:20:06.200 architect of

00:20:06.980 this design,

00:20:07.980 that is your

00:20:08.760 responsibility where

00:20:09.940 you look at it and

00:20:10.700 go from department

00:20:11.360 to,

00:20:11.580 okay,

00:20:11.620 which components

00:20:12.360 are asynchronous

00:20:12.960 because you

00:20:13.800 created these

00:20:14.520 departments to

00:20:15.100 function.

00:20:15.960 You can't

00:20:16.540 just abolish

00:20:17.100 them.

00:20:18.200 Where economics

00:20:18.840 and psychology

00:20:19.960 meet on this

00:20:21.120 probably is where

00:20:22.320 the solution

00:20:22.840 lies.

00:20:23.600 Right,

00:20:23.880 because you're

00:20:24.300 looking at it

00:20:24.860 from a

00:20:25.620 humanistic and

00:20:27.020 pragmatic way

00:20:28.600 because we

00:20:29.100 all look at

00:20:30.940 that.

00:20:31.320 You know what I

00:20:31.600 mean?

00:20:31.800 Like,

00:20:31.980 I have a

00:20:32.300 philosophy and

00:20:32.800 it's a

00:20:33.020 personal

00:20:33.220 philosophy and

00:20:33.900 I call it

00:20:34.280 the math of

00:20:34.740 things.

00:20:36.100 Everything,

00:20:36.940 if you can

00:20:37.400 find a way

00:20:38.040 to,

00:20:38.580 and I use

00:20:39.180 the scale

00:20:39.560 even for my

00:20:40.040 personal self

00:20:40.580 because I kind

00:20:41.120 of know,

00:20:41.420 okay,

00:20:42.000 you know,

00:20:42.280 what am I

00:20:42.640 feeling?

00:20:43.260 And usually

00:20:43.740 if I'm on the

00:20:44.280 bottom end of

00:20:44.760 the spectrum,

00:20:45.440 it's more like

00:20:46.220 physical feelings.

00:20:47.120 Like,

00:20:47.240 I'm not motivated.

00:20:48.200 I can't get out

00:20:48.760 of bed.

00:20:49.940 One more

00:20:50.600 rep,

00:20:50.920 whatever,

00:20:51.520 right?

00:20:52.040 And then I

00:20:52.800 don't just

00:20:53.460 force myself,

00:20:54.180 oh,

00:20:54.380 get to the

00:20:54.780 other side.

00:20:55.520 I kind

00:20:55.780 of go,

00:20:56.080 okay,

00:20:56.180 what's the

00:20:56.980 contributing

00:20:57.400 factor,

00:20:58.180 right?

00:20:58.480 Like,

00:20:58.980 or if I'm

00:20:59.540 on the

00:20:59.680 other side

00:21:00.120 and I'm

00:21:00.400 like overly

00:21:00.940 anxious and

00:21:01.620 like,

00:21:01.920 you know,

00:21:02.280 like I

00:21:02.840 can't get

00:21:03.240 myself

00:21:03.540 grounded.

00:21:04.200 Well,

00:21:04.460 okay,

00:21:05.280 why am I

00:21:06.100 here?

00:21:06.780 But I,

00:21:07.520 what I do

00:21:08.240 is I,

00:21:08.560 I look at

00:21:09.200 it from

00:21:09.480 an individual

00:21:10.060 or that

00:21:10.640 individual

00:21:11.100 experience

00:21:11.660 lens,

00:21:12.460 right?

00:21:12.840 So,

00:21:13.460 for example,

00:21:14.500 I offer

00:21:15.500 in person,

00:21:17.200 online,

00:21:17.960 and phone,

00:21:19.240 okay?

00:21:20.280 I have

00:21:21.120 clients that

00:21:22.160 are very,

00:21:23.060 I don't

00:21:26.540 want to

00:21:26.740 use the

00:21:27.000 word

00:21:27.120 traditional,

00:21:27.820 but prefer.

00:21:29.180 I think

00:21:29.480 that's a

00:21:29.740 better word.

00:21:30.320 They prefer

00:21:31.080 in-person

00:21:31.940 experiences,

00:21:33.380 okay?

00:21:34.120 I have

00:21:34.720 clients that

00:21:35.400 prefer

00:21:35.840 Zoom

00:21:36.640 experiences

00:21:37.380 because they

00:21:38.160 believe that

00:21:39.040 the amount

00:21:39.600 of time

00:21:39.980 they're going

00:21:40.340 to spend

00:21:40.760 coming to

00:21:41.440 the office

00:21:41.940 and then

00:21:42.300 going back

00:21:42.720 home is

00:21:43.760 not worth

00:21:44.420 the time

00:21:45.040 they're going

00:21:45.300 to spend.

00:21:45.640 No,

00:21:45.760 I'll be

00:21:46.020 honest with

00:21:46.520 you.

00:21:46.960 By the

00:21:47.300 time I

00:21:47.700 get to

00:21:48.000 your

00:21:48.200 office,

00:21:48.900 it's 20

00:21:49.740 minutes for

00:21:50.120 me to

00:21:50.320 cool down

00:21:50.740 from traffic.

00:21:51.680 I leave

00:21:52.420 your office

00:21:53.060 and then

00:21:53.780 by the

00:21:54.500 time it's

00:21:55.040 all gone,

00:21:55.760 all the

00:21:56.340 good you

00:21:56.660 did by

00:21:57.200 the time

00:21:57.600 I get

00:21:58.000 out of

00:21:58.240 traffic has

00:21:59.420 long expired.

00:22:00.820 Right,

00:22:00.960 and that's

00:22:01.320 a perfect

00:22:01.740 example where

00:22:02.660 I have to

00:22:03.240 now work

00:22:04.040 with what's

00:22:04.780 in front

00:22:05.080 of me,

00:22:05.920 right?

00:22:06.680 And perhaps,

00:22:08.240 so I've

00:22:08.700 had this

00:22:09.180 experience where

00:22:09.920 I had this

00:22:10.560 one client and

00:22:11.420 they were

00:22:11.720 insistent that

00:22:13.600 they get a

00:22:14.300 way better

00:22:15.100 experience of

00:22:16.300 coming into

00:22:17.000 the office

00:22:17.420 because they

00:22:17.760 like that

00:22:18.280 discipline

00:22:18.700 because it

00:22:19.220 made them

00:22:19.720 get out of

00:22:20.200 the house.

00:22:20.680 I can

00:22:21.120 see that

00:22:21.700 becomes a

00:22:22.780 bigger

00:22:23.040 experience for

00:22:23.820 them.

00:22:24.100 Right.

00:22:24.420 But then

00:22:25.180 they kind

00:22:26.880 of experience

00:22:27.300 what you

00:22:27.660 just said,

00:22:28.260 you know,

00:22:28.540 where it's

00:22:29.580 lost 20

00:22:30.300 minutes out.

00:22:31.080 Yeah.

00:22:31.360 Right.

00:22:31.800 So one

00:22:33.140 day I'm

00:22:33.400 like,

00:22:33.740 well,

00:22:34.120 why don't

00:22:34.740 we humor

00:22:36.540 each other

00:22:37.120 and let's

00:22:37.980 try a

00:22:40.620 non-office

00:22:41.520 session?

00:22:42.900 And then

00:22:43.520 I go,

00:22:44.020 you get

00:22:44.300 Fielder's

00:22:45.060 Choice

00:22:45.420 online or

00:22:46.960 on the

00:22:47.160 phone.

00:22:48.820 They're

00:22:49.180 like,

00:22:49.380 you know

00:22:49.500 what,

00:22:49.660 let's

00:22:49.860 try on

00:22:50.240 the

00:22:50.340 phone.

00:22:53.180 The

00:22:53.540 next

00:22:53.940 follow-up

00:22:54.620 session,

00:22:55.040 we were

00:22:55.240 going to

00:22:55.440 do like

00:22:55.800 a little

00:22:56.180 bit of

00:22:56.560 a feedback

00:22:57.400 and I

00:22:57.760 like,

00:22:58.020 did it

00:22:58.460 work?

00:22:58.700 Did it

00:22:58.840 not work?

00:23:00.320 And that

00:23:01.660 individual's

00:23:02.240 like,

00:23:02.740 I don't know

00:23:03.160 why I never

00:23:03.480 tried this.

00:23:04.260 Right.

00:23:04.880 And I

00:23:05.360 go,

00:23:05.560 what did

00:23:05.860 you enjoy

00:23:06.320 about it?

00:23:06.820 There was

00:23:07.120 the fact

00:23:07.820 that I

00:23:08.400 could stay

00:23:08.900 in my

00:23:09.280 jammies

00:23:09.800 and minute

00:23:11.080 I was done

00:23:11.640 with your

00:23:11.940 appointment,

00:23:12.700 I was

00:23:13.060 already

00:23:13.540 home.

00:23:14.160 I was

00:23:14.640 able to

00:23:14.980 actually

00:23:15.260 continue

00:23:15.980 the work

00:23:16.420 we

00:23:16.580 created.

00:23:17.600 That's

00:23:17.980 what I

00:23:18.220 think.

00:23:18.560 I think

00:23:18.820 that if

00:23:19.120 you can

00:23:19.600 stay in

00:23:20.200 that state

00:23:20.580 of mind

00:23:20.960 for a

00:23:21.300 period of

00:23:21.640 time,

00:23:21.940 it has

00:23:22.240 better

00:23:23.400 effects

00:23:23.900 on you.

00:23:24.500 And I

00:23:24.620 will tell

00:23:24.940 you,

00:23:25.200 personally,

00:23:25.600 I've

00:23:25.780 never

00:23:26.020 had,

00:23:27.240 well,

00:23:27.600 I am

00:23:27.860 married

00:23:28.100 to a

00:23:28.460 psychotherapist

00:23:29.200 and in

00:23:29.880 all honesty,

00:23:30.680 I probably

00:23:31.440 get a lot

00:23:32.020 of treatment

00:23:32.480 every day,

00:23:33.500 but officially

00:23:34.700 I've only

00:23:35.360 ever done

00:23:36.220 it online

00:23:36.760 and I

00:23:38.100 can't

00:23:38.360 imagine

00:23:38.700 doing it

00:23:39.100 any other

00:23:39.420 way.

00:23:39.640 And I

00:23:39.720 think

00:23:39.840 there's

00:23:40.020 a whole

00:23:40.260 generation

00:23:40.880 that's

00:23:41.240 experiencing

00:23:41.900 that.

00:23:42.360 Well,

00:23:42.600 look,

00:23:42.760 I'll tell

00:23:43.000 you this.

00:23:44.520 I think

00:23:45.180 this is just

00:23:45.820 my opinion.

00:23:46.440 I think

00:23:46.720 back to

00:23:47.080 work is

00:23:47.280 going to

00:23:47.400 be tough

00:23:47.740 for some

00:23:48.100 people.

00:23:48.540 Some

00:23:48.660 people

00:23:48.960 could not

00:23:49.760 wait for

00:23:50.860 this to

00:23:51.220 happen,

00:23:51.660 I think.

00:23:52.280 Not that

00:23:52.600 they wanted

00:23:52.940 COVID,

00:23:53.720 but an

00:23:54.020 opportunity

00:23:54.500 to be in

00:23:55.680 the place

00:23:56.300 they work

00:23:56.780 the best

00:23:57.280 and works

00:23:57.900 best for

00:23:58.320 their life.

00:23:59.200 And I

00:23:59.380 think that

00:23:59.680 there's

00:23:59.880 going to

00:24:00.200 be some

00:24:00.480 trauma

00:24:00.840 associated

00:24:01.420 with changing

00:24:02.000 that.

00:24:02.740 I hope

00:24:02.920 people reach

00:24:03.480 out to

00:24:03.800 their

00:24:04.020 psychotherapist

00:24:05.320 or somebody,

00:24:06.140 a friend,

00:24:06.580 or somebody

00:24:06.980 at work to

00:24:07.460 talk to

00:24:07.940 about this

00:24:08.560 because you're

00:24:09.320 not going

00:24:09.560 to be

00:24:09.740 alone.

00:24:10.680 If people

00:24:11.360 wanted to

00:24:11.800 reach out

00:24:12.320 and maybe

00:24:13.560 there is

00:24:14.780 somebody that's

00:24:15.300 going through

00:24:15.620 this transition

00:24:16.320 shortly that

00:24:17.020 could be

00:24:17.540 saved some

00:24:19.680 time and

00:24:20.220 hassle and

00:24:21.080 feel better

00:24:21.660 about the

00:24:22.080 process if

00:24:22.680 they speak

00:24:23.020 to you,

00:24:23.220 where could

00:24:23.480 they do

00:24:23.720 that?

00:24:24.420 So the

00:24:25.520 website is

00:24:26.180 horizonwithin.ca

00:24:27.500 and you

00:24:29.620 could go

00:24:30.080 online and

00:24:30.780 then I

00:24:31.140 offer a

00:24:31.600 15-minute

00:24:32.160 consult that

00:24:33.660 you can sign

00:24:34.460 up for and

00:24:35.040 we can have

00:24:35.420 a brief

00:24:35.900 chat about

00:24:37.440 what it

00:24:38.160 is that

00:24:38.420 you're

00:24:38.560 experiencing

00:24:38.960 in terms

00:24:39.380 of your

00:24:39.620 life

00:24:39.780 transition

00:24:40.200 and some

00:24:40.960 of the

00:24:41.140 stuff that

00:24:41.440 we talked

00:24:41.780 about is

00:24:42.100 basically the

00:24:43.940 way I try

00:24:44.480 to work with

00:24:44.920 clients is I

00:24:45.480 try to see

00:24:45.940 where they

00:24:46.320 are and I

00:24:47.200 try to see

00:24:47.680 which items

00:24:48.740 they value

00:24:49.460 now that

00:24:49.960 for them

00:24:50.740 it's a

00:24:51.320 very big

00:24:51.820 cost to

00:24:52.220 give up

00:24:52.420 because that's

00:24:52.920 where their

00:24:53.240 source of

00:24:53.660 anxiety is.

00:24:54.220 You're trying

00:24:54.480 to understand

00:24:55.040 how do I

00:24:56.000 now modify

00:24:57.420 this because

00:24:59.880 that's what

00:25:00.360 it is.

00:25:00.840 You're

00:25:01.220 modifying it.

00:25:01.940 You're not

00:25:02.200 giving something

00:25:02.900 up.

00:25:03.300 You're adapting

00:25:03.900 and to add

00:25:05.260 to the point

00:25:05.780 that we talked

00:25:06.240 about how do

00:25:06.700 you bring it

00:25:07.440 15,000 people?

00:25:08.640 How do you

00:25:08.920 bring it down

00:25:09.340 to X value

00:25:10.060 number of

00:25:10.420 employees?

00:25:11.000 The same

00:25:11.480 way that we

00:25:11.920 were having

00:25:12.200 the conversation

00:25:12.760 where it's

00:25:13.240 up to the

00:25:13.740 practitioner

00:25:14.280 or here

00:25:15.140 the human

00:25:15.800 the architect

00:25:16.520 to go

00:25:17.600 okay what

00:25:18.740 am I doing

00:25:19.280 and then

00:25:19.900 working with

00:25:20.860 that team

00:25:21.380 working with

00:25:22.160 that department

00:25:22.700 yes it's a

00:25:23.460 little bit

00:25:23.740 of work

00:25:24.060 but you're

00:25:24.800 doing it

00:25:25.220 for the

00:25:25.500 long term

00:25:26.060 you're doing

00:25:26.520 it for the

00:25:26.920 long game

00:25:27.340 that is

00:25:28.040 your

00:25:28.420 responsibility

00:25:29.080 for being

00:25:29.940 in that

00:25:30.340 position

00:25:30.740 of power

00:25:31.440 you know

00:25:32.300 and like

00:25:32.820 they say

00:25:33.200 with great

00:25:33.660 powers

00:25:34.180 comes great

00:25:34.760 responsibilities

00:25:35.440 Sam

00:25:36.680 thank you so

00:25:37.620 much

00:25:37.820 you're a great

00:25:38.420 guy to talk

00:25:38.960 to

00:25:39.240 and I bet

00:25:40.820 that you're

00:25:41.280 just an amazing

00:25:42.280 psychotherapist

00:25:43.040 on that basis

00:25:43.720 so thank you

00:25:44.380 so much

00:25:44.840 I'll put the

00:25:45.920 link to reach

00:25:47.560 out to Sam

00:25:48.060 in the description

00:25:49.420 for today's show

00:25:50.140 but I want to say

00:25:50.660 thank you very much

00:25:51.340 for joining us

00:25:52.080 don't forget to

00:25:53.120 subscribe

00:25:53.640 tell a friend

00:25:54.540 like or dislike

00:25:56.140 you know

00:25:57.120 you hurt my

00:25:57.520 feelings sometimes

00:25:58.200 but that's okay

00:25:58.840 I can't grow the

00:25:59.580 hair back

00:25:59.980 I tried everything

00:26:01.200 but we would love

00:26:02.180 you to stay with

00:26:03.240 us and certainly

00:26:04.380 interact in any

00:26:05.680 way you'd like

00:26:06.220 it's important to

00:26:07.000 us

00:26:07.120 thanks

00:26:07.340 we'll see you

00:26:07.660 next time

00:26:08.080 we'll see you

00:26:09.740 next time

00:26:10.080 we'll see you

00:26:11.020 next time

00:26:11.220 we'll see you

00:26:12.020 next time

00:26:13.020 you

Why Returning to the Office Feels So Hard ｜ Mike Wixson with Sim Chhabra

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