True Patriot Love - August 17, 2026


Why The Tragically Hip Became Canada’s Band ft. Jake Gold


Episode Stats


Length

29 minutes

Words per minute

154.58

Word count

4,542

Sentence count

112

Harmful content

Misogyny

1

sentences flagged

Toxicity

4

sentences flagged

Hate speech

2

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Because we're only doing two songs and we were doing Small Town Bringdown and then the band was doing New Orleans is Sinking, which they hadn't even recorded yet.
00:00:08.520 They had recorded a demo of it, but they hadn't recorded up to here yet.
00:00:12.600 So it hadn't been released.
00:00:14.180 But this was very much them.
00:00:15.740 Like, we're going to play a song that everyone knows.
00:00:18.100 We're going to play a song that no one's ever heard before, unless you've seen some of our shows.
00:00:22.920 Right.
00:00:23.780 And in the middle of the song, the mic falls apart.
00:00:30.000 Since the 1980s, he's one of the most respected and successful managers
00:00:36.840 in the history of Canadian music, the longtime manager of the Tragically Hip,
00:00:40.720 a judge and Canadian Idol.
00:00:42.400 He's the president and CEO of the Management Trust Limited.
00:00:45.540 Jake Gold joining us on TPL Media.
00:00:47.500 I'm going through your bio.
00:00:48.460 I'm going through everything about you, about your childhood,
00:00:52.520 starting in New Jersey, ending up in Toronto.
00:00:54.720 But at what point did a young teenager decide that music management was your future and your life and your career?
00:01:05.260 It's a funny story because there's the story that I always would tell for a long time.
00:01:16.340 And then there's the story that came out of a get-together by public school buddies, where one of them reminded me of how I started when I was 11.
00:01:33.040 Oh.
00:01:33.160 So the story in my mind was that I had lived in L.A. for a couple of years, from 79 to 81.
00:01:42.520 One, I came back to Toronto from LA,
00:01:46.340 where I was raised in Toronto.
00:01:49.520 A buddy of mine was in a band.
00:01:52.060 They asked me to be their tour manager, lighting guy.
00:01:55.720 The band broke up before they went on tour,
00:01:57.860 the lead singer quit.
00:02:01.180 And they reformed and my buddy who was the drummer,
00:02:04.860 and this was a high school friend of mine,
00:02:07.160 maybe junior high school friend of mine said,
00:02:10.540 we want you to be our manager, and I said to him,
00:02:13.780 I don't know anything about it, and he said,
00:02:15.900 well, don't worry, you'll be good.
00:02:18.960 Now, the other story is that in grade six,
00:02:24.920 there were these three girls in my class
00:02:28.200 that wanted to enter a talent contest. 0.99
00:02:30.980 One played guitar, and they all sang,
00:02:33.920 and I said to them, well, I'll rehearse you guys
00:02:39.520 so you can win the contest and we spent two weeks rehearsing for the contest and they won the
00:02:48.260 contest and so my my grade school friends say to me you know it came about because one of them said
00:02:57.580 you know only you and this other guy we went to school with who you know mark hepsher right because
00:03:03.460 I've known Hepsy since I was two years old, okay?
00:03:07.500 He said, only you and Mark, and he's part of this group that we play cards together and everything.
00:03:12.300 Only you and Mark were the guys that went on to do what they always wanted to do.
00:03:16.280 And I was like, why do you say that?
00:03:17.740 And then they reminded me of that story.
00:03:20.380 So you could say I started in 81 professionally, or you could say emotionally I started when I was 11.
00:03:30.380 So that it kind of was my destiny. 0.63
00:03:33.460 to do this and so much is made about your role with the tragically hip uh before we get to the
00:03:41.220 famous 1988 toronto music awards and and their ascension to greatness how did you become
00:03:48.100 introduced to the band and how did these group of kids from kingston take a street smart torontonian
00:03:54.100 like you into their inner circle well i can't i can't take 100 credit because i had a partner
00:04:01.620 named Alan Gregg. And Alan and I met in December 85. He had been looking for someone to help him
00:04:10.060 with a project that he was involved with. He wasn't in the music business. And I was recommended
00:04:16.520 to him. We met. I agreed to help him with this project. And then in late January of 86,
00:04:25.460 you know, literally a couple of months later, uh, we decided we were going to start a company
00:04:31.540 together. Um, what happened was in sometime in early August of 86, a good friend of his,
00:04:41.040 uh, named Hugh Siegel, uh, who was living in Kingston. Um, Hugh's, uh, brother-in-law was
00:04:50.140 friends with the guys in the band and the brother-in-law had given Hugh this cassette tape
00:04:54.640 because he knew he knew somebody in the music business, which was Alan.
00:04:59.260 So the tape got sent to Alan.
00:05:01.640 We listened to it.
00:05:03.220 We thought, this is interesting.
00:05:06.400 Singers got an interesting voice.
00:05:08.360 Let's set up a gig to see them.
00:05:10.760 We set up a gig for them at this place called Larry's Hideaway,
00:05:15.180 which has to be at Jarvis and Carlton,
00:05:17.380 which they knocked the whole building down.
00:05:19.040 It doesn't even exist.
00:05:19.980 They just made it part of the park that's there.
00:05:22.560 And, you know, it was, and I've said this many times before,
00:05:25.880 including in the No Dress Rehearsal documentary, that, you know,
00:05:29.980 30 seconds into the first song, I looked at Alan and I said,
00:05:32.800 we've got to sign these guys.
00:05:35.320 And the rest is so-called history.
00:05:39.200 So I think that, I think they saw between the two of us, you know, 0.99
00:05:48.120 me this scrappy guy with really you know a high school education but the the will to get shit
00:05:55.660 done and uh and alan who was um you know a very successful businessman pollster really understood
00:06:07.260 marketing and uh i know that because the parents had a lot of influence on the guys back then in
00:06:15.460 terms of they you know the parents were very involved in their careers to the extent that
00:06:19.440 they were helping them and everything else I think the parents saw the two of us as a really good
00:06:25.460 combo because I know a couple of the parents had called Alan because Alan was you know more like
00:06:33.020 them they were professionals and everything and I was this scrappy as you say scrappy music business
00:06:39.420 guy and and i know i remember they called alan and said uh you know do you think my son really
00:06:46.060 has a chance and alan was like yeah like like we're gonna make sure this happens so so i think
00:06:53.260 there was a lot of trust right from the beginning because of that between then and the ascension to
00:07:02.380 greatness jake is the famous 1988 toronto music awards and the tragically hip are doing a showcase
00:07:09.420 with the thought that they may or may not get a record deal.
00:07:13.280 Now, if memory serves, at one point,
00:07:15.000 Gord Downey's microphone falls apart,
00:07:17.520 yet somehow the band keeps it together
00:07:19.420 and put on this incredible showcase.
00:07:22.800 So they had done two songs for the Toronto Music Awards.
00:07:27.500 We had put out an EP on our own through RCA,
00:07:32.300 but there was some regime change at RCA
00:07:35.480 because we were going to do a long-term deal with them,
00:07:38.060 And there was some regime change, and that's the record that had Small Town bring down
00:07:45.460 and Last American Exit.
00:07:48.100 And when the regime change happened, their sort of vision for the band was very different
00:07:54.040 than ours, so we decided to just walk away.
00:07:57.180 So we were without a record deal at the time, and we were looking around.
00:08:01.520 we were we were actually demoing with with emi in canada but they still hadn't put a contract
00:08:09.320 on the table yet and we kept asking for one and oh we want to do more demos and and it just so
00:08:15.980 happened that we had done a showcase in new york city um for the for college media journal the cmj
00:08:24.460 conference and uh one of the anr guys from mca records had heard this small town bring down on
00:08:33.900 the sampler from the conference and uh he had the president of mca call me up and say hey
00:08:41.420 um we want to sign your band can my anr guy come up and see you guys
00:08:47.540 and uh so there was already interest but i think what happened is because i remember i was sitting
00:08:56.340 with him at massey hall in 88 um is that when because we're only doing two songs and we were
00:09:03.820 doing small town breakdown and then the band was doing new orleans is sinking which they hadn't
00:09:08.420 even recorded yet they had recorded a demo of it but they hadn't recorded up to here yet so it
00:09:14.600 hadn't been released but this was very much them like we're going to play a song that everyone
00:09:19.380 knows we're going to play a song that no one's ever heard before unless you've seen some of our
00:09:23.840 shows right and uh and in the middle of the song the mic falls apart and gord does you know does
00:09:31.880 something very spontaneous and the band goes into becomes very spontaneous which is kind of what
00:09:37.880 they got known for and um and then when the mic finally got fixed and they kicked back into the
00:09:44.240 song the guy uh from the record company bruce dickinson looked at me and he goes yeah i'm
00:09:50.660 gonna sign this band you know he was like he said okay i i've just seen it you know because
00:09:57.320 because it probably he probably would have wanted to sign them anyways uh because they were that
00:10:02.580 great um but i think that sort of showed him a whole next level of how good this band was
00:10:09.660 you know and um yeah so that was i think early november maybe november 8 9 1988
00:10:17.720 so from there the hip starts recording albums they start touring at what point jake along the
00:10:27.040 road as they're going along across canada did you see the response from people in different
00:10:32.340 provinces different languages different cultures to realize this this is going to be big well i
00:10:38.840 will say that they have been touring since 86. So when we
00:10:44.120 put out the EP in nationally, in January 88. We toured across
00:10:52.560 the country more than once. And by the time we were doing the
00:10:57.680 Toronto Music Awards, we were selling 1000 seaters across the
00:11:01.820 country just off the EP. So we were we were selling more
00:11:06.200 tickets than we were records we sold 11 000 records but we were selling a thousand tickets
00:11:11.880 easy in every market the band had a reputation and so um and that was also a thing that you did
00:11:19.660 you built your constituency by going out and playing for people and you know we had this
00:11:25.520 philosophy where we would go into a market for three days and by the third day it was always
00:11:30.780 packed and and because we knew that the word would spread amongst people and we saw it in every
00:11:38.640 market and so by the time uh you know that toronto music awards happened we were already
00:11:45.840 considered a big touring act but we hadn't really sold any records yet um uh
00:11:54.120 that was november when bruce came to see the band by the end of january we were in memphis
00:12:03.020 recording up to here incredible it went really fast at that point so and and then in 92 you
00:12:10.700 released this seminal fully completely which is a diamond status a million records in canada is a
00:12:17.000 huge huge accomplishment but between there there's a few years you the band ends up on saturday night
00:12:22.880 live in 1995 which to me is a huge accomplishment for a canadian band how did you set that up
00:12:28.780 well i can't take the credit for that but keep in mind that um just just to just so you know
00:12:36.680 you know we put out up to here then we put out road apples then we put out fully completely
00:12:40.620 all three of those are diamond almost right double diamond um uh that the saturday night
00:12:48.500 live thing was literally dan akroyd dan dan was really close friends with the band he lived in
00:12:55.340 kingston um he had gotten up and he introduced the band we had done some big charity shows in
00:13:01.720 kingston in like 91 um 90 91 he had got up and played harmonica with the band uh they were very
00:13:10.600 good friends lauren michaels had asked dan if he wanted to come and be on the show and uh he said
00:13:17.980 okay i will but you got to have this band play if you want me you got to have the tragically hit
00:13:23.260 so that's how that happened um so i i can't take credit for that uh but i'll i'll i'll i'll take
00:13:33.740 what came after what came after because it really was a seminal moment um and and it was a really
00:13:40.720 great moment because that was the night
00:13:42.920 where Gord changed the lyrics to Grace
00:13:44.920 2 and
00:13:46.380 I think
00:13:49.500 he probably sang
00:13:51.020 those changed lyrics
00:13:52.640 from then on in
00:13:54.800 and it was all by accident
00:13:57.280 he didn't do it intentionally
00:13:58.620 Before I get into the impact
00:14:02.500 the lyrics and Gord and the band has had
00:14:05.000 on the Canadian psyche for
00:14:06.900 the last few generations
00:14:08.020 In your opinion, as an experienced manager, why did the Tragically Hip not have the same impact on a lot of American audiences they did in Canada?
00:14:19.840 Well, I think, first of all, I think what people probably don't know is the band actually has a really big following in the U.S.
00:14:30.860 I mean, even today, if I look at our streaming numbers, one-third of our streams come out of the U.S.
00:14:36.340 Oh, really?
00:14:37.300 Yeah.
00:14:37.560 And we had a big following in a number of cities around the country to the point where they could play 3,000, 4,000 seaters.
00:14:53.960 If you took their career in the U.S. as a standalone and not compared it to Canada, they would have a really, really good career that most fans would give their right arm for.
00:15:07.560 But if you compare it to Canada, it seems like it's much smaller.
00:15:13.400 Yeah.
00:15:14.620 But then there's nobody who's as big as we are in Canada.
00:15:19.380 I mean, the hip sell more records than you, too.
00:15:22.220 The only band that sells more records than the hip in Canada is the Beatles.
00:15:26.720 So I think it's kind of unfair to compare it to Canada because, again, nobody's ever been that big, especially a Canadian act.
00:15:36.520 and um uh they also unabashedly wrote about canada they they were not afraid to write about
00:15:46.020 what they knew and they if they found if gord found a great canadian story he wanted to tell
00:15:53.060 that story and yet most bands you know kind of uh stayed away from that kind of thing because they
00:16:01.320 thought it would hurt their chances in other markets and the hip said well we don't give a 0.96
00:16:08.920 shit like these are our stories these stories need to be told you know whether it's bill 0.98
00:16:14.200 barilco whether it's david milgaard you know and so many others um so i think i think that's why 0.99
00:16:23.040 canada um embraced them the way they did because nobody else was telling canadian stories
00:16:30.480 I know Gord Downey and his lyrics in the band
00:16:35.320 had an impact on me personally in my 20s and 30s.
00:16:38.940 But now, 30 years later, Jake, I have daughters in my 20s,
00:16:42.580 and I've had people in my life who've passed away,
00:16:45.900 both family and friends.
00:16:47.200 And I think about lyrics,
00:16:49.120 Sundown in the Paris of the Prairies,
00:16:51.560 It was Bob Cajun where I saw The Constellations,
00:16:54.640 No Dress Rehearsal, This Is Our Life.
00:16:56.680 i find these lyrics hit home to me and hit home to a lot of my friends more now than when they
00:17:02.580 were released yeah i i can see that and i think that um you know the band is multi-generational
00:17:10.440 and i think that um you know when i look at our stats the biggest sector of our audience right
00:17:17.540 now is 24 to 34 year olds really yeah i mean that surprises your response is the same response
00:17:25.960 everybody gives me when I say that but the the stats are the stats um there's a lot of uh I think
00:17:33.740 that the hip is one of those bands that gets passed down you know when you think about it's
00:17:38.780 10 years now since the final tour you know we're coming up August 22nd we're coming up on the final
00:17:45.040 uh well August 20th was the final show but we're actually rebroadcasting
00:17:50.320 the final show on the 22nd. But when you think about it, there were kids that were 10 and 12
00:17:59.880 and 14 who watched that but didn't really know what they were watching. Their parents said,
00:18:05.500 hey, we're going to go to this thing because when you have a third to half of Canada watching
00:18:10.140 something, you're going to have grandparents to grandchildren. And those kids are now in their
00:18:16.580 20s and they're they're remembering what happened then and now they understand it more and uh so i
00:18:27.540 think that it's almost become a rite of passage to learn about the hip learn about your country
00:18:34.260 there's also this huge um immigration uh immigrant population that have come to canada and learned
00:18:44.660 canadian stories through the music of the tragically hip um you know we we launched a musical 0.86
00:18:52.340 back in uh april in hamilton and we're taking it to kingston and then it's going to montreal and
00:18:59.380 then eventually it'll be coming here toronto we're just working out those details um but
00:19:05.460 when you look at the the story of the musical is the story of an immigrant
00:19:09.460 that comes to Canada and gets dropped in Kingston
00:19:13.920 and having to assimilate and learn about Canada.
00:19:20.620 And so we're seeing a lot of that, too,
00:19:23.260 that there are people who are like,
00:19:24.800 oh, tragically, if they taught me about Canada.
00:19:29.380 I know, Jake, you've also worked with well-known Canadian bands
00:19:32.560 like The Pursuit of Happiness, Broken Social Scene.
00:19:36.000 For people, maybe you don't realize the depth of your,
00:19:38.840 repertoire and your everyone you work with are there other artists you're working with that
00:19:44.020 you're excited about that canadians should know about um as far as and i work with with the
00:19:50.620 pursuit of happiness now i work with mo and the pursuit for i guess it's now 23 years
00:19:57.580 broken social scene is a new thing it's only been since november but they're busy touring all over
00:20:04.880 a place we just came off a massive uh tour and then we're going to europe in uh in september
00:20:12.240 and then next year like australia and new zealand and japan and philip and singapore so um
00:20:24.880 uh but over the years i've worked with adam cohen leonard's son i've worked with uh you know i i
00:20:32.320 I helped launch Big Wreck,
00:20:34.280 executive produced their first record with Allen.
00:20:36.300 So we did Big Wreck for a couple of records,
00:20:39.040 The Watchman for 14 years.
00:20:43.000 So, you know, the Headstones for a number of years.
00:20:46.860 So, but right now I'm concentrating on the pursuit,
00:20:53.800 broken social scene and all the stuff I do with the hip.
00:20:57.920 I don't, I'm not taking on any younger artists.
00:21:02.980 It's not something I have the time for, first of all.
00:21:05.840 And secondly, I'm pretty busy with those acts.
00:21:10.660 From a big picture standpoint, as maybe a young Canadian artist or band watching this,
00:21:16.820 how can you impress upon them the importance of getting out there and touring across Canada
00:21:20.980 in college bars and the Larry's Hideaway of Harry Sound or Moose Jaw
00:21:26.920 and just dealing with a live audience and working on your craft?
00:21:30.880 Well, I think you've got to build your constituency, right?
00:21:34.400 And people can do it online, but you still have to go out and meet the people.
00:21:40.580 You know, I read this interesting article today that the thing that drives young people,
00:21:47.660 the Gen Zs, to buy a ticket to see a show is seeing live clips of the band.
00:21:55.240 so so if you don't have shows to shoot live clips then you don't have live clips to put out on the
00:22:03.500 internet so it's your best marketing tool you know the internet has democratized everything
00:22:10.140 but you still have to be great and you still have to be able to reach people so um you know
00:22:17.300 i've had lots of music come across my desk and and uh or it's it's interested me enough to want
00:22:26.480 to go see the band but if the band doesn't deliver live then i'm not interested and that's always
00:22:33.340 been the case um i think that uh uh and and to make the real big money you know you want to be
00:22:45.780 big live band because merch comes off you know your merchandise sales come off that and everything
00:22:52.900 else but you got to build your constituency if if i was if if if i had a young band in my office today
00:22:59.940 uh and they asked me what's the first thing i do is i say start a mailing list
00:23:06.980 you know and and and have direct communication with your fans
00:23:10.660 oh interesting or make sure you're offering them something we started that with the hip in 1991
00:23:16.780 we used to actually send a mailer in the mail print it and mail it and now we do the same
00:23:24.580 version it's called tales from the hip and it has a logo that looks like tales from the crypt
00:23:28.820 and we we send it out we send the newsletter out um uh uh via email now but it's still called
00:23:39.020 tails from the hip and it's the single best marketing tool we have is communicating directly
00:23:47.400 with the fans and if you don't do that then you're you're missing what it's all about
00:23:52.460 i i think jake you know as we're getting ready to wrap up i i think maybe because of the way
00:23:58.840 gord fought through cancer and passed away how he educated millions of canadians about the plight
00:24:05.380 indigenous people and maybe just all the threat of 51st state i find there are more canadians as
00:24:10.960 you mentioned of multiple generations who are appreciating their unabashed pride of being
00:24:16.340 canadian now maybe more than before the band stopped touring with gordon i think there really
00:24:22.760 is a resurgence i'm finding lately of the hip and who they are and what they stood for yeah listen
00:24:28.280 we can we can thank the orange guy for that right uh it's pretty funny like we saw when he
00:24:35.480 came out 51st state our numbers just kept going up right like and and they continue like
00:24:41.880 currently in terms of you know streams and all that other stuff the band's bigger than it's ever
00:24:48.960 been you know and and you're seeing the same thing with rush you know rush had nine years
00:24:56.900 and people are just you know we're actually me and the guys in the band are all going tomorrow
00:25:02.980 night to uh on the 13th of august to see the final toronto show we're all going to see the
00:25:09.640 show together uh because you know we've known those guys for years and and but we just want
00:25:15.080 to see the show you know like uh i grew up with those guys you know getty lived down the street
00:25:22.120 from me so a few years older but we went to the same high school so it's like
00:25:27.320 seeing them is going to be is going to be something else but i think there's a certain
00:25:33.720 sense of pride you know um and uh and you know canada was has never been the kind of place that
00:25:42.980 sort of you know waves the flag but we used to see it with the hip everywhere um everywhere around
00:25:50.460 the world we would play there'd be canadians there waving their flags saying hey we're one of you
00:25:56.940 you know so um you're right i think that uh and we've always done it quietly in a good way
00:26:06.220 you know because i think that's important too um we've never been as a as a country um
00:26:13.820 that demonstrative but I think the final show 10 years ago did bring the country together
00:26:20.460 you know for a common common goal right nobody's ever seen anything like that before
00:26:28.940 and so I think that and and we're seeing it now with the rebroadcast we're seeing communities
00:26:39.540 all over the country wanting to do outdoor parties
00:26:43.320 and all this other kind of stuff, and bars are doing it,
00:26:47.220 and, you know, performing arts centers are running the show
00:26:50.240 in their theaters, and so we're seeing the same kind of thing
00:26:54.020 happen again.
00:26:58.040 Well, as Gordon and the band taught me and people from coast to coast,
00:27:01.820 sometimes the faster it gets, the less you need to know,
00:27:04.800 and sometimes you just need to listen to the music and be proud.
00:27:07.380 Jake, I can't thank you enough for joining me,
00:27:10.880 for talking to the viewers and listeners,
00:27:12.960 and thank you enough for what you did for The Hip
00:27:15.500 because, I mean, without your steady hand of guidance,
00:27:19.040 I'm not sure, I mean, as good as they are,
00:27:21.180 they needed someone to steer the way
00:27:22.660 and fight the good fight in the rough and tumble streets
00:27:25.680 of the music industry.
00:27:26.640 You did it.
00:27:27.700 Well, Alan and I did it, at least for the first, you know,
00:27:32.000 few bunch of years.
00:27:33.340 Then it was me on my own, and then it wasn't me,
00:27:35.360 and now I'm back.
00:27:36.280 so you know we continue to do it we continue to keep the legacy alive that's kind of what my job
00:27:41.960 is to keep it going um and these guys are you know my friends and so like it's not just business
00:27:51.160 really too you know that many years it's 40 years you know so amazing yeah well thanks for having me
00:27:58.280 jim pleasure jake and all the best and uh we're we're hip we're with the hip forever my friend
00:28:04.600 There you go.
00:28:05.580 There you go.
00:28:06.080 That's what they have.
00:28:06.860 They have big banners in Kingston for this whole event called Hip Forever Banners.
00:28:12.500 They put roadsides.
00:28:15.600 They have Hip Forever Highway signs instead of Kingston, like the exit signs.
00:28:24.480 They changed that section of the 401 because they're doing this whole celebration leading up to the final broadcast.
00:28:33.560 Fantastic.
00:28:34.600 yeah the band's kind of taken over the their own hometown to the extent that they can't wait to
00:28:40.220 leave because people are coming in like it's mecca because they don't want to be instant and the band's
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