Riley Gaines shares her story of coming to terms with her gender dysphoria and how it has impacted her life and the lives of others around the world. She shares her personal story of how she came to understand that her gender identity is fluid, and how that has affected her career, her relationships with others, and her own mental health. She also shares the story of the moment she realized she was born with a gender identity disorder and how she was able to turn it all around. In this episode, Riley talks about her journey to accepting her own gender identity as a transgender woman, and the work she's doing to address the growing issue of transphobia and gender identity in the LGBTQ+ community, as well as her own experience with the toxic effects of the transphobic culture and culture in America today. This episode is a must-listen for anyone who is curious or concerned about the trans+ movement and its impact on our society, and especially those who are struggling with their gender identity and their ability to live authentically and authentically as a member of the community. Thank you so much to Riley Gaines for sharing her story, and for her courage and courage in speaking out on this important topic. Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this podcast and for all the support we've gotten so far. . We can't wait to hear from you! - Caitlin Durante Thank You, Caitlin! Caitlin's Note: We're working on a new episode of Caitlyn's new book, "Transphobia: The Real Talk. coming soon! and we'll be posting it on the next episode of the podcast "Transgenderism: The New York Times" in the next few weeks! Subscribe to the podcast. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts! Subscribe on iTunes Subscribe on Audible Subscribe on Podchaser.co Subscribe on Stitcher Subscribe on Itunes Subscribe on Spreaker Subscribe on PODCAST Subscribe on Anchor Subscribe on SoundCloud Learn more about your ad choices and more! Share your thoughts on the podcast on social media? Leave Us a review on iTunes Learn more on the Podcasts and Podcasts? Subscribe & Share Us on PodCharity Subscribe in iTunes Connect with a Podcasts & Shout Out! Subscribe to our Podcasts Share Us On Itunes and Subscribe to Our Insta & Subscribe on Social Media
Transcript
Transcripts from "Truth Podcast - Vivek Ramaswamy" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. You can also explore and interact with the transcripts here.
00:00:23.000years, the core premise of the gay rights movement in this country, the G-prong of the now LGBTQIA plus movement, said that the sex of the person you're attracted to is hardwired on the day you're born.
00:00:36.000It had to be really in order to qualify as a civil right in this country.
00:00:41.000Yet today the T prong of that same movement, the trans prong, says that your own biological sex is completely fluid over the course of your life.
00:00:51.000Now this doesn't make total sense because there is no gay gene, yet we adopt a legal framework that says the sex of the person you're attracted to is hardwired on the day you're born.
00:01:00.000Yet there is a definitive sex chromosome and yet we say that's the attribute that's completely fluid over your life.
00:01:06.000These things don't make sense together as a logical model, but they do make sense if you're part of a quasi religious cult, which is really what's happening in America today.
00:01:18.000It's a cult that's a symptom of a deeper mental health epidemic in America.
00:01:23.000I've been unapologetic about sharing my perspective, the perspective that most human beings have shared through the history of this country, that if you believe that you are born into a body or of a gender that is different than your biological sex, That is usually a sign that you suffer from a mental health disorder.
00:01:43.000And the compassionate thing to do is not to affirm that cruelty but to actually help the person who suffers from that confusion, especially when they're a kid.
00:01:52.000Yet what we're seeing now is not only causing more of that very gender confusion amongst kids.
00:01:58.000But now amongst adults, people cynically exploiting that mental health epidemic to advance their own agenda for advancing fame, social media followers, even dollars through endorsement deals.
00:02:11.000On this issue, I just think more than most issues, it's a sacred cow you're not supposed to touch.
00:02:16.000I think it's important that we actually talk about this openly, actually close the gap between what people are willing to say in private And what people are willing to say in public.
00:02:28.000That's the litmus test for how well we're doing as a democratic society.
00:02:31.000And today, probably more than most episodes, even that we've had so far, we're going to do just that.
00:02:39.000And I've invited today on the podcast somebody who I've been following for a long time.
00:02:43.000She's become something of a hero of mine for her courage in closing that gap between what people would have said in private and what she's willing to say in public.
00:02:54.000Many of you are probably familiar with her, but if you're not, Riley, I'll ask you to briefly introduce yourself and talk about how you came in a first personal way in touch with the, I would say, toxic effects of this trans epidemic in America and how that affected your own life.
00:03:12.000And then let's get into it, take gloves off, and really talk with total candor here.
00:03:20.000I so appreciate the intro, and I have so appreciated following along you.
00:03:25.000But really, what's thrusted me into this position?
00:03:28.000Last year, I was a senior at the University of Kentucky, where I was a swimmer.
00:03:32.000I had made it my goal to win a national title, which would mean becoming the fastest woman in the nation in my event.
00:03:38.000All of a sudden, midway through my senior year, this person comes out of nowhere and starts posting the fastest times in the nation by multiple seconds, which in swimming, seconds is a lot.
00:03:50.000And this is a sport that's measured down to the hundredth of a second.
00:03:53.000So when you have someone leading by multiple seconds, you're kind of scratching your head, especially someone you've never heard of before.
00:03:59.000Because like in most sports, You're top level athletes, you know of each other, you know, and if you don't know each other personally, you at least know their names, you know what they swam, you know their times.
00:04:09.000So there was a lot of confusion, unbeknownst to me at the time that this was a male.
00:04:14.000And this was, of course, the first time that I became aware of a swimmer named Leah Thomas.
00:04:19.000Again, still thinking this was a female, I'm talking to my coaches, talking to my teammates, you know, who is this person?
00:04:24.000Until an article was posted disclosing that Leah Thomas was formerly Will Thomas and swam three years on the men's team at University of Pennsylvania before switching to the women's team.
00:04:34.000And so when I read this, I was so shocked because I thought this was something that would really never infiltrate into sports.
00:04:44.000I know it had happened at smaller grassroots levels in high school and middle school, but at the collegiate level, I thought this was so far-fetched.
00:04:52.000So I was, of course, shocked, but truthfully, I was relieved when I saw it because I was able to look up who Will Thomas was.
00:04:58.000You know, was this a lateral movement?
00:04:59.000Was this someone who went from ranking first to continuing to rank first?
00:05:31.000And so our national championships just last March, I Got to sit on the side of the pool and personally feel the effect that this infringement and this injustice had on myself and my teammates.
00:05:43.000Because that first day of competition, we watched Leah Thomas win a national title, beating out Olympians, beating out American record holders, the most impressive female swimmers this country has ever seen, again, by seconds.
00:05:54.000And that next day of competition was the day that Leah and I raced in the 200 freestyle.
00:06:00.000And almost impossibly enough, we tied.
00:06:03.000We went the exact same time down to the 100th of a second.
00:06:14.000But we both went, I think, one minute and 43 seconds and 52 100s.
00:06:19.000And so after tying, we get out of the water and you go behind the awards podium and the official looks at both Thomas and myself and he says, great job.
00:06:27.000You know, you guys tied, but we don't really account for ties and we only have one trophy.
00:06:58.000And that is when I knew what was happening up until this point was wrong in terms of the unfair competition in the locker room, which I'm sure we'll touch on in a bit.
00:07:08.000But when this official reduced everything that I had worked my entire life for down to a photo op to validate the feelings of a man at the expense of our own, That's when I was no longer willing to live in this lie and this false perception.
00:07:23.000And that's when I decided I wanted to take a stance in truth and in science and, quite frankly, common sense.
00:07:30.000So what do you think was going through the head of the person?
00:07:33.000What did they mean for photo purposes?
00:08:01.000Clearly, when he said, you know, we have to do this for pictures, Leah has to pose with this, has to smile along the podium with this trophy, clearly they didn't want to be seen as being discriminatory.
00:08:13.000But what they didn't realize is, of course, Title IX, which is a federal civil rights law that is supposed to stop discrimination on the basis of sex, they didn't realize what they were doing was actually going against Title IX and being discriminatory towards women.
00:08:28.000And so they wanted to be seen as inclusive and kind and loving and tolerant and accepting and welcoming and all of these things.
00:08:35.000But in reality, it was none of those things to ask us women to smile, step aside, and allow these men to take our spots on the podium and our titles and our scholarships.
00:09:09.000By allowing Leah, one, to even compete against us in general, winning or not, but two, stand on the podium and ask us to step aside, it perfectly highlighted to me the hypocrisy of all of this, this whole movement, really.
00:09:33.000It's almost an intentional insult, but in the same way, like, I don't know if you saw, I posted this video a number of days ago about an MMA fighter who was a biological man, really beaten the living daylights out of women.
00:09:46.000We would call this, even what happened to you the other day at the speech you were giving, There was a day where we would call a man hitting a woman violence against women.
00:09:57.000Yet today, I mean, that was the America I knew when we grew up.
00:09:59.000Yet today, we celebrate that as trans.
00:10:02.000And in a certain way, it's just dignifying the very things for most of our human history that we fundamentally regard as disrespect towards women as something that we're not supposed to celebrate in the same vein that we celebrated women's rights 30 years ago on.
00:10:21.000It just makes a mockery because from my perspective, I started swimming when I was four and I'm 22 now.
00:10:26.000So I dedicated 18 years of my life to achieving maximum performance, whether that be, of course, in your sports specific training, but also your weight training, your physical rehabilitation, your sleep, your diet, all the social sacrifices.
00:10:39.000There's so much you have to do and we're not forced.
00:10:41.000It's something you're willing to do to compete at that level.
00:10:44.000All to shave off a mere few 100ths of a second.
00:10:47.000And so, from my perspective, we're competing against a man who is actively taking hormone suppressors, trying to decrease his performance, giving his second best.
00:10:59.000Yet we're doing everything we can to shave 100ths of a second off.
00:11:02.000And we're going against someone who is doing everything they can To decrease their performance.
00:11:09.000I don't understand this whole argument.
00:11:13.000What I've been doing this past year, my argument is that it's unfair.
00:11:17.000We've lost out on the ability to consent in areas of undressing.
00:11:22.000Just like the video you posted, and there's so many other examples of women being hurt physically by men playing in their sports.
00:11:29.000Any sport where there's physical contact, where you're striking something at one another, colliding with one another, Anything of that nature, men have 50% more upper body strength, 60% more lower body strength.
00:11:42.000We know the science behind that, of course, yet we're choosing to ignore it in the disguise of being kind.
00:11:53.000The original feminist movement was, of course, the premise of it was to empower and embolden women in their sex-protected spaces and rights.
00:12:03.000Yet now we see this feminist movement doing the exact opposite and actively working to diminish those spaces and those rights.
00:12:32.000But truthfully, I believe Leah is so selfish and is narcissistic and has an utter disregard towards women.
00:12:38.000Because when all of this trophy stuff was happening, first of all, I didn't even care about the trophy, the tangible trophy.
00:12:44.000It wasn't the object of holding the trophy that I was so upset about.
00:12:47.000It was, of course, the principle behind it.
00:12:49.000And so when I was conversing with this official behind the podium, you know, saying, why are you giving this trophy to a man in the women's 200 freestyle?
00:12:58.000Leah never once said, you know, why don't we both hold the trophy or why don't you just take it?
00:13:03.000Which again, I didn't want the trophy.
00:13:05.000I'm a 12 time All-American, so I have lots of those at home.
00:13:08.000But it was it was the principle behind it.
00:13:11.000And that's why I say I think Leah Thomas is so extremely selfish.
00:13:14.000This movement is filled with just entitlement.
00:13:16.000Lack of responsibility, lack of accountability.
00:13:19.000And so my animosity is not necessarily towards the trans individuals themselves, but I do think they show a lot of their true colors when disregarding other women's comfortability and their rights and their feelings and their protections.
00:13:33.000I mean, you might have a deeper perspective even, you almost certainly do, Riley, than I do, but my take on this is that There are broadly many young people who are lost.
00:13:47.000They're hungry for purpose and meaning.
00:13:50.000And their sense of being lost, the emptiness in their life, their sense of depression and mental health illness manifests in a lot of ways.
00:13:59.000And one of them is that, oh, maybe I don't like my body.
00:14:03.000Maybe I don't feel comfortable in my own skin.
00:14:24.000A lot of people in the trans movement will say that's an offensive thing to say, as though there's something wrong with having a mental health condition, which actually many people in this country do suffer from.
00:14:31.000So that brings that full circle over there.
00:14:34.000But there's a small subset of people, and I don't know Leah Thomas, but I'll just be honest with you in terms of what my sixth sense says here.
00:14:42.000Dylan Mulvaney's example I think is a lot more prominent and obvious in this respect.
00:14:48.000Which is almost calling the bluff of the entire system and laughing their way to the top to say, well, if that's the game we're going to play, and yes, there are these people suffering, but somehow our entire society suffers from this madness of crowds that says that we're supposed to pretend that that alternative reality is the true reality, then I might as well win.
00:15:08.000I might as well get endorsement deals.
00:15:10.000I might as well get famous on the back of it.
00:15:11.000I don't care if you're a man or a trans man or a trans woman.
00:15:14.000I think making fun of femininity is something that we should...
00:15:18.000We should be bothered by in the first instance.
00:15:20.000But what you see there is, whether it's Dylan Mulvaney or whether it's, you know, whether it's Leah Thomas, I think a certain cynicism to use that to achieve after spending three years swimming on an NCAA, I guess was a Division I men's team, to then switch in your senior year to three for the women's.
00:15:40.000It's almost as though it's a little bit of an FU is what I sort of take away from that.
00:16:04.000There's so much more that goes into being a woman than merely that.
00:16:08.000First of all, the levels they have in place are nowhere near computable of that of an actual woman.
00:16:12.000And even if men could get to the same level of women, which they can't, there are still advantages that will never go away that are particularly noticeable in sports, of course.
00:16:21.000But I wanted to comment really quickly how you mentioned really affirming a lot of the mental health problems that are happening.
00:16:31.000Think about this, the anorexia movement that was in the 90s.
00:16:35.000These women who had suffered from anorexia, did we affirm them by telling them that they were in fact fat?
00:16:42.000No, and that's not something you would do because it's harmful.
00:16:46.000Of course, they believe they're fat a lot of the times, but they're not.
00:16:50.000So this is the same thing that's happening now with this whole trans movement.
00:16:55.000Men, women, they believe they're that of the opposite sex.
00:16:59.000If someone is genuinely struggling with gender dysphoria, that is something that deserves to be treated with pre-care, if there's any sort of hormone or surgeries post-op care, but that's not what we're seeing among our healthcare system.
00:17:15.000I've talked to many even detransitioners who share their experience of what Transitioning was like, and it's terrifying that doctors and medical professionals are being so negligent to do this, and I think we know why.
00:17:31.000I'm from Nashville, Tennessee, which we have Vanderbilt there, and they got a statement late recently where They essentially said these trans surgeries and the hormones, it's a cash cow.
00:17:43.000They can make all of this money off of these people who are transitioning.
00:17:47.000Each person who transitions is $70,000 to $100,000 over their lifetime.
00:17:54.000I think it's all just this spiraling down system that we have in place.
00:18:00.000And just like you said, the systems that we do have in place, it's so easy for someone to take advantage of.
00:18:06.000If all you have to do to say you are a woman is say, I am a woman, look at what's happening in prisons.
00:18:12.000You have men who are convicted of rape and kidnapping and child pornography and horrible things who realize if I say I'm a woman, women typically get lesser charges.
00:18:23.000And I get to be housed with women, which sounds awesome to a rapist, right?
00:18:27.000And it's happening in Kansas, Ohio, New Jersey, of course, California.
00:18:30.000Just in recent weeks, there was over 1,200 men in California applied to be in women's prisons.
00:18:35.000And so if nothing else, can we not acknowledge how the systems that we have in place, there will be people who do and are taking advantage of this, with women being the collateral damage in the process.
00:18:49.000It's really, you know, also defies, I think, part of what the gender equality movement was about in another way.
00:18:56.000You know, I was a high school athlete and I did not compete in college, but I was a competitive tennis player through high school and, you know, was not at the pinnacle of my sport as you are of yours, but was nationally ranked and whatever.
00:19:11.000There are many different kinds of men and young men, and there are many different kinds of ways to be a woman.
00:19:17.000And I think that part of what the gender equality movement was supposed to be about – I'm older than you, but when I was growing up kind of in the 90s where I was in high school, I graduated in 2003 – was this basic idea that – You can be a woman in any way you want to be one.
00:20:01.000You can be even attracted to other boys if you're gay.
00:20:05.000It's a small percentage of the population.
00:20:08.000You can be a woman and you can be a man any way you want to be one.
00:20:12.000And that was what was supposed to be liberating about the gender equality movement and even a big part of the gay rights movement.
00:20:19.000And yet now it seems to me that what the trans movement is saying is that no, no, no.
00:20:24.000There's only one way to be a woman and there's only one way to be a man.
00:20:28.000And you have to actually fetishize that archetypal image of what it meant to be a man or a woman to say that if you do want to have short hair or be tomboyish or whatever, now it means in the literal sense you're not just a tomboyish girl but you actually have to identify yourself as a boy or experience now it means in the literal sense you're not just a tomboyish girl but you It seems like it denies the environment of gender equality and the philosophy behind gender equality and freedom and liberty in the first place.
00:20:59.000And that's why I do use the term hypocritical because it goes against everything that, again, it was typically embraced by the left, right?
00:21:10.000This whole equal pay, all of the gender equality things, it was embraced by the left, and so now we've seen a total shift.
00:21:18.000And it just happened to me, maybe I was naive, but it happened so quickly that It kind of makes you sit back and say, whoa, you know, what's happened?
00:21:27.000Do we really have these people who once fought for women's rights, who often said, you know, always believe the women, especially in my case of what just happened at San Francisco, now victim-blaming the women?
00:21:43.000Now telling the women that they have to step aside and allow men to take their spots?
00:21:49.000That's the hypocrisy and the double standard that I was referring to.
00:21:54.000I don't know if COVID expedited things at that time at home where we all had our phones, we were all sat on social media, we didn't have anywhere to go.
00:22:02.000I don't know if that added a sense of social pressure to it all.
00:23:28.000Where these labels, you know, leave off.
00:23:30.000I'm a millennial, so you're a generation younger than me.
00:23:34.000Your point is you're 22, I'm 37, you know, whatever.
00:23:37.000You have a different peer group than my peer group and grew up in a different cultural environment in this country than I did.
00:23:44.000And so I'm particularly interested in your answer to this.
00:23:48.000What the heck do you think is actually going on?
00:23:50.000We can complain about the problem, and we are, and I think it's important.
00:23:54.000And you have more than anyone that I have seen publicly who is first person to live the consequence of this have actually had the courage to speak in such a dignified and respectful and civil way about this issue that is so distinctive about you.
00:24:14.000With that spirit, it's why I'm asking you, because it seems like you have a wisdom about you that's well beyond, you know, the ripe age of 22 and graduating from college.
00:24:24.000What the heck do you think is actually going on here in the country and in your generation in particular that causes this illusion to spread like wildfire as it has?
00:25:06.000And at first this struck me, you know, why?
00:25:09.000Why would someone want to View themselves as marginalized, and I think it's because when you become this oppressed group, you typically have less responsibility.
00:25:56.000They want to break down that sense of family and faith and freedoms and all the things.
00:26:01.000And truly, a lot of it is deeply rooted in Marxism, what's happening.
00:26:05.000With the changing of the language we use and the suppression of speech and denying objective truth, But I think your point about victimhood, it strikes a chord with me.
00:26:15.000You have no reason to know this, but that was, I mean, I wrote, I've written a couple books, but the second book I wrote was all about, it's called Nation of Victims.
00:26:39.000We see what's going on in the next generation as well.
00:26:42.000And there's a really interesting parallel trend where...
00:26:47.000You know, did we encounter, so first of all, did our parents' generation encounter a lot of hardship coming halfway around the world to a country where there's no internet, there's no cell phones, you're located in a totally different land from the one you grew up in, in a different culture, in an environment that, frankly, was a little bit less welcoming, maybe in the American Midwest than it is today, of people from multicultural backgrounds?
00:27:08.000Then, did we encounter our own versions of hardship, not just because of race or ethnicity, but because everybody encounters hardship in their lives?
00:27:15.000But then now we're seeing a trend in my kids' generation and my nieces' and nephews' generation where the Asian-Americans or Indian-American kids who are sort of the second and third generation, they're now describing themselves as, using this new term, persons of color.
00:27:37.000And then if you think about your heritage, you would say, fine, Indian-American.
00:27:39.000But you don't lump yourself into a category with like 100 or 1000 different cultures, each of whom are as different from each other as you or I might be, even though we have different skin colors.
00:27:53.000Unless you're trying to play this game of the victimhood currency game, right?
00:27:57.000So LGBTQIA plus is the equivalent to sexual identity as person of color is to racial identity, which is you're just lumping a bunch of things together that have really no coherent relationship to one another other than the victimhood status that it allows you to earn.
00:28:15.000And then when that victimhood becomes – I love that I wrote it down the way you said it.
00:28:19.000I think you might have actually said it even better than I said it in the book.
00:28:21.000The way I talked about it is victimhood becomes a currency.
00:28:24.000So on the positive side, when the currency is trading at a high, you want to cash it in.
00:28:28.000You actually probably get closer to the truth of the matter where you say when you lose accountability, then you have any sense of responsibility.
00:28:35.000But it is this currency-ification of victimhood that I think accounts for why people flock to any status that allows them to be a victim.
00:28:46.000And if you're a white man, that's the only one that's available to you.
00:28:49.000If you're an Asian American or an Indian American that might not have been seen as a member of the black community, then you call yourself a person of color.
00:28:56.000I think that's a big part of what is going on in the country.
00:29:11.000It's not your full identity, what your race is or what your ethnicity is or your heritage or any of those things.
00:29:17.000And that's what I think these people, they struggle finding their identity.
00:29:21.000And so they put their entire identity into this LGBTQ group or whatever that might look like.
00:29:28.000Whereas, I think it's an attention thing.
00:29:31.000I think it shows a lot of insecurities and a lot of kind of I'm using the terms beta and alpha male here, beta, alpha female.
00:29:39.000I think it's a lot of the beta group of that who are not as secure with themselves, who want attention, who want to feel as if they belong somewhere.
00:29:53.000I still don't know if I fully understand why the bigger picture behind it, I think that will be revealed.
00:29:59.000I think every day it's becoming more and more obvious what's really happening.
00:30:04.000So I'll be interested to see how the next year or two years really pans out for this whole movement.
00:30:10.000Yeah, it's a very powerful and honest reflection on your part.
00:30:18.000I think that my message to people your age or my age or whatever, any age really in this country, is that your racial identity or your gender identity or who you're attracted to, I'm just thinking about how we can persuade, rather than just talking to people who agree with each other, how do we actually address the problem?
00:30:36.000Just give people a sense that that's one of the least interesting parts of your identity.
00:30:41.000How about your beliefs, your convictions, your passions, what you do, what you create?
00:31:00.000I found that I haven't been totally successful in Landing that message quite in that way, but it's a step in the right direction where as hypocritical as a lot of this is, and I've spent most of my books and elsewhere calling out the hypocrisies of this, that definitely plays a role in highlighting the issue to people, but it plays very little role in persuading the people who are in many ways exhibit A of the problem.
00:31:24.000But we care about having one country left.
00:31:26.000The message I'm trying to move to, and maybe you can try it out too.
00:31:41.000I love the fact that you mentioned getting in front of a different crowd because that's one of my biggest things.
00:31:48.000Get in front of people who don't agree with you, which is why I go to these colleges and talk to these kids, because I want to engage the younger generation, even if it means I just went to Cal Berkeley, I just went to San Francisco State.
00:32:00.000I want to get in front of people who have questions, hard questions, and I want to answer those questions.
00:32:07.000Remind me the name of that soccer star you were recently sparring with in debate, which I thought was great to engage in debate.
00:34:13.000And we'll be, as I'm sure you will be too, respectful and civil, but unapologetic in really airing, I think, differences in a way that people don't do in this country enough anymore.