Unify Action - “Socialism Isn’t the Problem,” She Told Me - Then We Dug Deeper

00:00:00.000 Do you think a system like socialism, that people have arisen like dictators and have committed huge atrocities,

00:00:06.980 do you think a system like that, that has that tendency, do you think that is undesirable?

00:00:12.520 Would you not say that Canada has socialist rules and socialist policies?

00:00:18.100 The economy seems fine. It's not like failing or anything.

00:00:22.440 Socialism is a scam?

00:00:24.260 I mean that socialism doesn't deliver on its promises.

00:00:27.280 so

00:00:28.860 socialism

00:00:30.580 like I think you'll agree

00:00:33.200 probably with my definition I tried to steel man the argument

00:00:35.400 socialism is the public

00:00:37.460 ownership of property and

00:00:39.340 industry right

00:00:40.040 so like collective ownership

00:00:43.040 and wealth

00:00:45.420 redistribution

00:00:46.020 right and every time that has been

00:00:49.280 implemented to any extent

00:00:50.920 it has always failed and

00:00:53.040 the more that people lean towards

00:00:55.280 socialism actually the worse it gets

00:00:57.240 what do you mean by it's failed so it's failed to produce wealth it's failed to

00:01:01.940 create sufficient like sufficient resources for everyone basically like that's the claim is that

00:01:08.700 everyone will have enough right that no one will have too much and then we'll all have what we need

00:01:13.860 that's the claim but it actually doesn't do that so in socialist countries you don't have

00:01:21.320 competition right so like one of the claims against capitalism is it'll it'll run to monopoly

00:01:27.160 or something like that that's what people claim right but when you have socialism it literally

00:01:32.880 is a government-run monopoly right so competition actually incentivize efficiency and an increase

00:01:41.680 in wealth for everyone right but when if you have socialism there's no incentive to be efficient

00:01:48.300 so in the end like socialism always has this honeymoon period where everyone's like oh this

00:01:54.260 is awesome everything's like free and it's great but then things start to run down you get shortages

00:02:00.380 you get famines you get you get the government trying to force people to work because they don't

00:02:05.720 have an incentive to work so you get gulags and soviet union or a really heavy-handed government

00:02:11.620 right like the more that it leans towards socialism and communism in the end the harder

00:02:18.340 the government has to be and the worse it is for everyone what do you think the difference

00:02:25.200 between communism and socialism is communism is just a little stronger so like socialism and

00:02:33.220 communism really are like sisters basically in practice they look they look a little similar

00:02:38.140 so like communism and social they still have this public and collective ownership

00:02:42.600 right um but really the only difference is that communism has guns and socialism is supposed to

00:02:49.920 be democratic would you not say that kinder has like socialist rules and socialist policies

00:02:57.420 you have some and that's probably like our health care is probably what you're thinking of

00:03:03.680 right that is it's a welfare it is socialist sort of um but we can see that it's not exactly

00:03:11.140 working out that great right there's huge delays people are dying every year waiting for health

00:03:17.300 care and it's just at this point i don't think it's working there needs to be some sort of

00:03:22.660 competition inputted i'm not saying we get rid of like free health care i'm saying there needs

00:03:26.940 to be competition inputted in our health care system to make things faster so do you think

00:03:34.160 the health care system would be better if there was no socialism involved at all where nothing

00:03:39.260 is subsidized or do you think it would be better if it was still like socialist but there was

00:03:43.900 like a bit more competition introduced well i think it would be like the best service for us

00:03:50.580 if there was no subsidizing and, like, all private industry run.

00:03:56.620 So if it was, like, the states, do you think it would be better?

00:03:59.600 You mean, like, the provinces?

00:04:01.340 No, like the United States.

00:04:03.120 I think we would get better service.

00:04:05.540 So I do kind of like that they have, like, insurance companies

00:04:08.680 and, like, employers will pay for health care and things in the states.

00:04:13.580 So I think in that sense it's better.

00:04:17.620 And then they don't have as long wait times.

00:04:19.720 Like, honestly, if the States goes to socialize health care, I don't know what Canadians are going to do because Canadians actually go to the States to get health care when we can, right?

00:04:29.700 So I do really critique our current system.

00:04:34.300 I think it needs reform at the very least.

00:04:37.060 But when people advocate for socialism, they're really advocating for that sort of inefficiency through all specters of our economy, right?

00:04:45.120 And I just don't think it's going to work.

00:04:46.440 I mean, there are aspects of, like, the things that you said are the pros of probably having a non-socialized health care system.

00:04:55.780 We have shorter wait times.

00:04:56.880 Some people would say better care because there's more competition.

00:04:59.280 But don't you think there are other benefits that aren't, like, maybe that aren't mentioned there that could be more important?

00:05:09.320 Like, if someone isn't able to afford health care and they get hurt in the States, often they go into debt.

00:05:16.440 for the rest of their lives because of it and they have no way to pay it at all so like when

00:05:24.000 the benefits of socialized health care is that people who wouldn't be able to afford to pay it

00:05:28.060 can still get health care and then also having the states as their neighbor with like that system

00:05:34.060 people who can't afford the health care when it's not socialized like this they do have the

00:05:40.400 opportunity but for people who can't afford it it can like save their lives from like years and

00:05:45.760 years of debt right so that's where it gets complicated right like um we do have so you

00:05:54.440 kind of you have this trade-off right like where you you have the service free but you might not

00:05:58.820 be able to get the service or you have the service like normally priced competitively priced and

00:06:03.640 you'll be able to get it quickly um for those people who can't afford that like i do think

00:06:10.660 like see government i don't think it should be like a hammock i think it should be a safety net

00:06:14.640 so when someone legitimately cannot better themselves then there could be government

00:06:21.280 welfare for them but i don't think it should be like a hammock i think it should be a safety net

00:06:26.600 so there's a possibility of government helping someone get care in that sort of system but

00:06:34.600 i mean i don't know to what extent and welfare systems can be abused like even in the states

00:06:41.660 They have a welfare state, it's growing, and it's being abused.

00:06:47.140 We can see where certain individuals across whatever race,

00:06:50.900 they are abusing the system and just not working. 0.98

00:06:55.160 So whatever welfare system we have,

00:06:58.420 it's got to be one that legitimately helps only people who can't help themselves.

00:07:04.160 Yeah, I think socialized systems can be abused by people

00:07:08.720 who aren't 0.98

00:07:10.420 like by people

00:07:12.920 who want to, but

00:07:14.260 I don't think that means that socialism

00:07:16.560 shouldn't exist, I think it just means we need

00:07:18.860 to design our socialist

00:07:19.820 systems better, create it

00:07:22.800 in a way where people won't be able to

00:07:24.860 abuse it to just not work, but

00:07:26.860 when someone legitimately loses their

00:07:28.880 job, provide them with

00:07:30.860 support until they can find a new job and get back to

00:07:32.700 contributing to the economy.

00:07:35.680 So,

00:07:36.080 so see socialist systems instead of no socialist systems see when you get rid when you implement

00:07:43.960 socialism you get rid of the desire for someone to work right so okay i think people already don't

00:07:52.740 want to work but i don't think that socialism enables them to not work i think most people

00:08:00.480 who benefit from welfare systems are like honest people trying to help out the workforce and maybe

00:08:07.840 there's a few bad actors but i think you see that in any system even in capitalism there's people

00:08:12.340 who run businesses that scam millions of people like i think any system will have bad actors but

00:08:19.260 i don't think that means the system itself is flawed okay so we've tried this we've tried

00:08:25.480 socialism like 40 times and in different different ways different extents and every time it's turned

00:08:34.060 out poorly and i don't see any possible way to improve it what do you mean every time it's

00:08:41.980 well the more that we tried it like the more social socialism we've implemented the worse

00:08:49.940 has turned out like the worst most deadly regimes we've had in world history have been collectivist

00:08:57.760 regimes right so that's true maybe the most recent ones but i don't think that's no like

00:09:04.040 it because it's implemented i think they were just bad people i think if socialism was working

00:09:08.660 in its ideal form it would have been fine but it was then these people took advantage of it

00:09:14.120 and turned into a bad system and so like the socialism that was there they were able to take

00:09:18.960 advantage of it so i don't think that means socialism is bad inherently like i think canada

00:09:24.140 one of the reasons that canada is such a good country is because it balances capitalism with

00:09:30.160 socialism and i think if we didn't have the socialism aspect then and it was just only

00:09:35.320 capitalism it wouldn't be the country that is people like there would be a lot more poverty

00:09:42.200 unemployment a lot worse things all right yeah but i want to i want to go back to one thing that you

00:09:48.480 said so you said that bad people arose in a socialist society right to take advantage and

00:09:54.560 kill hundreds of millions right that's like we were talking about Soviet Union and other places

00:09:59.080 but do you think that a system that enables such people to take such control is undesirable

00:10:06.200 not if it's used correctly I think like there they designed a system that was bad

00:10:15.540 and also they use socialism to do it, but can you repeat the question?

00:10:20.600 Yeah, so do you think that any system that enables someone to rise to power

00:10:27.280 and abuse it, a system like socialism, that people have arisen

00:10:31.860 and taken control like dictators and have committed huge atrocities,

00:10:37.000 do you think a system like that, that has that not just possibility but tendency,

00:10:43.480 do you think that is undesirable?

00:10:45.540 Well, I think that those dictators who rise in control and do that are doing something inherently un-socialist,

00:10:52.980 which is instead of making it better for everyone, they're taking the power for themselves.

00:10:56.900 They're pretending that other people need to be all equal and the wealthy give to the poor,

00:11:02.080 but they themselves are the wealthy who are not giving to the poor.

00:11:05.940 I think we call those socialist societies or communist societies,

00:11:11.060 But really, like those awful dictators who run these places, they're being the most un-socialist.

00:11:17.940 They're only thinking of themselves and not thinking of other people.

00:11:20.760 And so I would argue that that isn't a socialist society and those bad things aren't coming from socialism.

00:11:26.920 Yes, but the reason that they were able to come to power was because the people, well, not even the people in most cases, the government took so much power.

00:11:37.560 and it had the capacity to do these horrible things.

00:11:42.260 In a socialist country, you have to have a big government.

00:11:46.300 That's, like, the only way to force equalization and equal sharing.

00:11:50.900 You have to.

00:11:52.900 I don't think that's true. 0.94

00:11:54.420 Have you heard of kibbutz?

00:11:58.100 It's a shared living environment.

00:12:00.680 Oh, kibbutz, yeah. 0.94

00:12:01.860 Yeah, kibbutz, yeah. 0.96

00:12:02.540 so those i would say those are the closest to like a socialist ideal society like an ideal

00:12:09.160 social society as like they exist i think those that's the closest to real socialism and it's

00:12:14.200 where everyone works together you know it is i do i do um and they tried communal living for quite

00:12:20.280 a while but they have since moved away from that so a lot of kibbutzes have like 60 plus percent

00:12:25.940 are no longer considered like socialists so socially living um so they're they're moving

00:12:30.800 away from that as well because they're considering just how it's not working for especially young

00:12:37.360 people so they are moving away from that as well I don't know if they're necessarily moving away

00:12:42.880 from socialism a lot of them aren't completely socialized as they were there are also some that

00:12:48.100 are but I don't think like the ones are moving away from it are moving away from it because it's

00:12:52.120 not working like I think it like it does work pretty well they're just moving away for it from

00:12:59.020 it because like they don't want to do that anymore and they like want to explore other options but

00:13:05.900 i think not because it doesn't work okay well and the ones that still are socialized are very

00:13:14.220 successful and like accomplish the things they want to accomplish they have like happy societies

00:13:20.240 people contribute people feel meaning okay i don't know a whole lot about how kibbutzes are run

00:13:28.760 um but i will say this they are small communities and very small scale

00:13:36.440 so they are able to monitor each other and make sure that each other is working

00:13:42.360 right once you get that to a large scale you need this large government

00:13:47.040 in order to monitor everyone to make sure they're working and that's added cost right

00:13:52.940 Is your argument that socialism on a large scale doesn't work because, like, bad governments take control and oppress people?

00:14:04.560 That's part of it. That's part of my argument.

00:14:07.220 But there's other reasons, too, that socialism just doesn't work.

00:14:10.160 Like, you no longer have that incentive to have to, like, an incentive is basically just the possibility of future reward, right?

00:14:18.480 But when you take away incentive for someone to, like, get profit,

00:14:22.880 they no longer have the desire to get things done efficiently.

00:14:26.820 They may continue to work, but they won't work as hard.

00:14:30.920 I think there is some incentive.

00:14:32.220 When I think of socialism, I think, imagine everyone's a bar chart of how much, let's say, money they have.

00:14:37.160 And there's a minimum value of living a good life.

00:14:41.260 you can like you take the top bit off of the people who are above that bar and you give it

00:14:48.940 to the everyone who's below that bar to bring them up to like the like a good standard of life

00:14:53.840 but then past that you can still like you can still make as much as you want you just have a

00:14:59.240 little percent taken off to help the people who need it but there's no ceiling for you it's not

00:15:03.020 like you have to give all of your stuff away it's just like the little bit extra you have

00:15:07.620 can go towards helping people that's how i think of it yeah so i understand how if you're thinking

00:15:12.460 of it differently no no that's like that's wealth redistribution right so we tried that

00:15:18.680 and taxing the rich like specifically even sweden and denmark they both try this high taxes on the

00:15:24.720 wealthy and the wealthy left they left their countries well i think we have a form of that

00:15:30.360 system in place here and i think it works pretty well well we don't exactly have a booming economy

00:15:38.300 our economy seems fine it's not like failing or anything like what what more do we need for our

00:15:46.260 economy well we have we have for the past 10 years we have gone down we're the slowest growing

00:15:52.420 economy in the g7 that's not great but and well that's yes yes to some extent i think it's due

00:16:03.200 to heavy government regulation and government overreach and not letting the free market do

00:16:07.820 what the free market should right so the free market should be out there creating jobs and

00:16:14.440 especially for youth unemployment is crazy right now and they don't have the jobs so

00:16:21.160 like like the economy is just not creating enough jobs for everyone that's coming into this country

00:16:26.400 and it should be but it's not i can agree with that but i think that free market is good but

00:16:35.840 i don't think that means socialism is bad because like there like you said there's a lot of places

00:16:42.540 in society where like socialism is good but maybe in these cases like in in like certain places

00:16:49.480 socialism maybe shouldn't be applied or should be applied differently but i think as a concept

00:16:54.280 like i don't think it should not exist i think we're gonna disagree here um yeah no i just i

00:17:02.640 don't see socialism working um but i do encourage you to like you obviously you've read a lot it

00:17:10.200 seems like you've heard a lot about socialism and other things um but i encourage you to do

00:17:14.460 some research about capitalism and why that works because we've seen over the past 200 years like

00:17:21.000 like real wage has climbed like 10 or sorry like 10 times yeah i just think that also socialism's

00:17:30.120 good like socialism's good yeah but i would encourage you also to look at like so look at

00:17:36.340 both and kind of like objectively compare them because when you look at what socialism actually

00:17:41.760 does in practice it's never great right i have to agree to disagree on that okay yeah all right

00:17:50.100 thank you for talking to me

Unify Action - January 15, 2026

“Socialism Isn’t the Problem,” She Told Me - Then We Dug Deeper

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript