00:00:00.000This channel started out about 10 months ago with us with some very old equipment out on the street
00:00:07.300talking to students about voting and being politically active and there was a lot of
00:00:12.760election content that we filmed that we never got out and there was one conversation that really
00:00:17.800stuck with me and we just we didn't have time to get it out before the election and after the
00:00:22.520election it would have seemed a little old but there were some things that this individual said
00:00:26.180in our conversation that really shocked me. It was really confusing, and it was a conservative
00:00:33.040voter who was talking about how we needed more socialism and more government spending,
00:00:38.100which to me was quite perplexing. And at the time, I was not at all intellectually prepared
00:00:45.320to take on his arguments. And I've done more reading since, and now I understand where he's
00:00:50.300coming from, but I also understand why it's wrong. So today, we're going to go through this
00:00:54.500conversation and i do apologize for the old mic this was a budget operation um but we're gonna
00:01:01.020go through and i think you're gonna find some of what his arguments quite interesting uh so first
00:01:07.260of all we have a liberal decades already um our gdp per capita the growth rate is the lowest
00:01:16.420among G7. I don't think it's good result and I know Liberal Party blamed all this
00:01:24.340on Trudeau's government and Trudeau's government rather than Mark Carney. We do
00:01:28.360understand that but they are in the same party, they have the similar team if we
00:01:32.500see the cabinet, right? So if Mark Carney or the Liberal Party do have the
00:01:37.840message to get Canada a better economy, what were they doing in the past decade?
00:01:43.660I'm under Trudeau's government for, well, when in 2015, I guess, I watched the debate and election he got into power.
00:01:57.660And I think I'm not coming here suddenly like, oh, Canada is bad or something else.
00:02:02.660Like, I do live in Canada the whole liberal decades. I'm not satisfied.
00:02:07.660So I'm quite sure liberal won't get my vote.
00:02:10.660And besides of conservatives, I'm not saying conservatives are perfect, but I don't think we really have a third choice regarding to Prime Ministers. That's my reason.
00:02:22.660So is a socialist government what we should be leaning towards, or is capitalism better for Canada?
00:02:27.660Well, to be honest, even though I support conservative party, but I think government-owned corporations or certain level of public-owned sector,
00:02:40.660no better in the market or in healthcare somehow, I will say it's positive.
00:02:48.660So when we talk about capitalism and socialism, someone will say, oh, if you support conservative, you want a smaller government,
00:02:55.660you want lean more to capitalist capitalism but i think maybe it's not the case um so state-owned
00:03:04.860corporations or all right i'm going to stop there and we're going to digest that point
00:03:10.620so what he's saying is that you to be a conservative you don't have to want smaller
00:03:16.300government and less government spending and more capitalism he's saying that socialism
00:03:20.780is compatible with conservatism which to me is quite a interesting thing to say because
00:03:28.300the whole point of being a conservative is that you you believe first and foremost in individual
00:03:33.740liberty and individual freedom but he's saying like those are foundations of capitalism and the
00:03:40.780western society those are conservative principles that you want everyone to be free and able to
00:03:47.100succeed in life and that that's that's conservative but he's saying that's not
00:03:52.860necessarily the case socialism is not conducive with freedom or free markets
00:03:58.940socialism is not a conservative value but yet he's claiming that it is um so either he doesn't
00:04:05.740understand conservatism or he's got an angle here that he's working so state-owned corporations
00:04:14.300or state-owned project maybe looks like socialism but i think sometimes it may be beneficial yes
00:04:24.140yes but do you think having a public like universal healthcare in canada do you think that
00:04:29.900has helped is our healthcare system in good shape so first of all we have kind of universal healthcare
00:04:36.780already and I don't think it's a good idea to abolish it completely but we do
00:04:43.980see a lot of problem like if you want to use that universal healthcare you have
00:04:50.400to wait for a long time we are short of family doctors etc there's a lot of
00:04:54.780problem that's something we need to work on it we need to be more efficient maybe
00:04:59.820we need to introduce some kind of competition or private sector but I think
00:05:04.980the idea of universal healthcare itself is okay i would like to keep it and i don't think conservatives
00:05:10.580are going to abroad abolish it right yeah yeah i'll stop again um so he's noting that there are
00:05:19.540problems in the public health care that we have in canada right now he's noting that problem
00:05:25.380but yet he wants that sort of like the reason that there is inefficiency and shortages and
00:05:32.980And hugely long wait times in our healthcare system in Canada is because it is socialized,
00:05:40.660because it is public. See, when you make something free, people are going to use it more,
00:05:46.000even though they don't need to. When you have free healthcare, people are going to go to the
00:05:51.360doctor even though they don't necessarily need to. And if they didn't have to go, if they had
00:05:56.700like some minor ailment like a headache or a little like a cold they might just go to the
00:06:02.900pharmacist and get an over counter drug but in a free health care you're gonna go to the doctor
00:06:09.220just in case to make sure everything's fine and even though that is going to delay it and take
00:06:15.040resources away from someone who really needs it that's what happens when you have public free
00:06:19.180health care and that is not something you can take away from the system now I'm not advocating
00:06:26.280that we go and just totally make everything privatized. Again, I think there needs to be
00:06:31.260some amount of privatization and some amount of competition, like he said, but he's noting the
00:06:36.680problem with our public health care, yet he wants that spread to other industries as well.
00:06:43.680So maybe he doesn't understand why socialized industries fail, but they do fail and they're
00:06:50.980always slower and I don't like the direction our health care system is going and it could be very
00:06:58.220bad in the future but the fact that he wants that spread to other places is to me not conservative
00:07:04.480at all. Should we be giving the government more control or is it better to remain as they are?
00:07:13.160So first of all, in the future, I'm thinking of, because of the technology progress, I think the government finally kind of have the ability to manage, to manage like public owned corporation efficiently.
00:07:32.800Because in the past century, I would say, socialism failed in the Soviet Union,
00:07:59.800I think in the future, maybe from AI or from other technology progress, the government could have more and more ability to affect the economy, to help the economy grow more healthier.
00:08:42.200But do you think that government subsidies and government control of the market, do
00:08:47.680you think that distorts the price signaling that the free market has as far as supply
00:08:52.600in demand, and do you think it hurts competition to have government control like that?
00:08:58.840Okay, so we do study economics, and so when we only study first-year economy, we'll say
00:09:06.040free market, perfect competition is the best. But when we go to upper years, second year,
00:09:10.840third years, we will learn about externalities, we will learn about government intervention,
00:09:20.120somehow it's beneficial for the economy because it's a complicated case when we
00:09:25.560are doing math about economy when we are in first year in university we'll think
00:09:30.260free market is best but in the reality it's not if the government have strong
00:09:36.800and strong control and have the price precisely calculating analyzing all
00:09:43.640their skills and the expert to help them maybe they have the power to make the
00:09:50.260economy grow better and healthier yeah so I think the government have the
00:09:55.820ability to make the market healthier compared to a totally free market but
00:10:03.040they need to do a good job if it if it do not have the fine if they do not have
00:10:11.080precise control or they do not have their strong ability to help the0.92
00:10:18.400economy maybe it's even worse than the than the free market such as Soviet
00:10:23.680Union so what he's saying is that the government if it has enough power can
00:10:29.020direct the economy better than the economy can direct itself but at the
00:10:33.380same time as he's saying that he's also recognizing that government directed
00:10:38.020economies have failed in the past every time from North Korea and Soviet Union, as he mentioned,
00:10:44.580but also Venezuela and Cuba and everywhere else failing economies because they're government
00:10:49.820directed. And okay, so now we know that they have failed in the past and we have to analyze them to
00:10:58.960see why they failed in the past. So to know if they could possibly succeed in the future, right?
00:11:05.040So, now we have to look at the nature of government. Government does not have the profit motive or the price controls that the private sector and free market does. So, they don't have the incentive to get something done really, really quickly. And we can see that with bureaucracy. We can see that with our healthcare, that there is no incentive to be really, really quick. That's one of the things that's wrong with it.
00:11:27.000So we don't have that incentive. And that is because there are humans involved. When someone
00:11:32.120has the incentive to get something done quickly, they will. If they're going to get paid more,
00:11:37.240or if the only way that they're going to succeed is to get things done quickly,
00:11:41.480then they're going to get things done quickly. But government doesn't have that signal at all
00:11:47.000whatsoever. So there's no incentive whatever for them to get something done quickly. That's why it
00:11:52.360it takes forever to get a license and everything else, or forever to get surgery, because government
00:11:57.840doesn't have the incentive to get things done quickly. And that is because there are people
00:12:02.380involved, and that is just the nature of government. Now he's saying that somehow if we get AI involved
00:12:10.400and somehow have this huge knowledge of the market and everything else, then we can have
00:12:16.120socialist utopia, then we can have the government running everything. Okay, so the AI that he's
00:12:23.820envisioning has this AI that we will create, this God in our own image, basically, that will be
00:12:30.380perfect in every way and control our lives perfectly. It has to be perfect, this AI that
00:12:37.460we create. It has to know every desire that we'll ever have. It has to know everything, every bit
00:12:45.680of knowledge that humans know, and it has to be able to perfectly execute it. The only way for
00:12:52.280this AI to work is it has to be all-knowing. So you have to create this sort of surveillance state.
00:12:58.680If you want your AI to work, your perfect socialist utopia, you have to have a surveillance state,
00:13:04.620which is something that they're actually trying to work on in China and other places,
00:13:08.060to monitor every single bit of information out there, every single human being,
00:13:12.760to control them. When you have this AI state, you're going to be controlling people. That is
00:13:21.200the whole idea of directing the economy. So you're going to have a surveillance state and a huge
00:13:24.940amount of control over your citizens in order for everything to work right, okay? And this AI is
00:13:30.560going to have to know everything about you, from your likes to your dislikes, what you want. It's
00:13:35.960going to have to be able to predict every single desire of every human being in order to be able
00:13:40.520to supply everything at sufficient levels all the time. It's going to have to be all-knowing.
00:13:46.680And that is kind of a scary thing. So it's going to have to be all-knowing and all-controlling.
00:13:51.220That is his vision. Kind of scary. But what he's saying, like, and going back to a different point
00:14:00.000and the reason that government actually can't control the economy, rightly, is because government
00:14:05.980actually doesn't know everything. The knowledge that is necessary to run the economy, just like
00:14:12.640let's just stick with Canada, the knowledge that's necessary to run the Canadian economy
00:14:17.040isn't isolated in one group of people in Ottawa. It is spread into millions and millions of people,
00:14:24.800like 40 million people all across our country, that each know a little bit of what is necessary
00:14:29.100to get their expertise, their little bit of knowledge. They know exactly what they need to
00:14:34.460know to carry that out. So the knowledge to run all of Canada is not isolated to just a few people
00:14:40.440in Ottawa. It is in everyone in Canada. Like the people in Ottawa don't know the specifics necessary
00:14:47.000to, I don't know, whatever bit of steel that's needed to make this particular implement that
00:14:52.560goes into this particular car. They don't know all that information. They don't know the proper
00:14:58.280engineering for, I don't know, a toothbrush or a pencil or something like that. That is not
00:15:02.480something that the people in Ottawa know, but that was something that they would have to know
00:15:06.680in order to run the economy correctly. And that is one of the reasons that government-run economies
00:15:13.300have failed in the past, is because they don't know everything. They're not all-knowing. And in
00:15:20.560order to run the economy, they would have to be all-knowing. And this is something that Thomas
00:15:25.400Sowell would call consequential knowledge. It's the knowledge that's necessary to run life.
00:15:30.520the people in Ottawa have academic knowledge. They know their chemistry and their physics and
00:15:36.520everything else, but they don't know the consequential knowledge that's necessary to
00:15:40.100farm and to do manufacturing and to be a carpenter and a plumber and everything else.
00:15:45.240The people in those sectors have the knowledge necessary, not the ones in Ottawa. So that's why
00:15:51.020government-run economies haven't worked in the past. Now, suppose we implement our AI dream.
00:15:57.240Okay, we would need this AI to be perfect. This AI could not make mistakes. So basically we would
00:16:06.840be training this AI on knowledge collected by imperfect people and programmed by imperfect
00:16:16.620people. And we would have to expect it to be perfect. So this AI would have to be the first
00:16:23.200thing that humans have ever created that's perfect and that will never fail. That has to be
00:16:31.960what we create. And I don't think we can do it, guys. I don't think so. And if we were to do it,
00:16:42.080all freedom would have to be evaporated instantly. So I'm rejecting the idea. I don't like it.
00:16:52.100human beings are created to be free. For someone to be controlled by an AI that we would assume
00:16:59.140has our best interests at heart, it's going to totally destroy freedom. People think that their
00:17:05.900number one desire is to be happy, but actually our number one desire is to be free. That's why
00:17:12.000people flooded into the United States when the border was open. That's why people are flooding0.83
00:17:16.800into canada because they want that freedom and and yes that freedom part of that freedom is the
00:17:22.560freedom to pursue happiness but you need to have that freedom before you can actually pursue that
00:17:29.280happiness that's why it was written in the declaration of the united states that they
00:17:33.040should have that freedom to pursue happiness so that's why people come to north america that's
00:17:37.440why they're that's why they're fleeing cuba on rafts that's why they're trying to dig tunnels
00:17:41.680out of North Korea, because they want freedom. And that is yet another reason that socialist
00:17:49.400and government-run economies don't work, because there are human beings involved. There just has
00:17:55.920to be, okay? There has to be human beings involved, and each of us is created to be free.
00:18:01.620Going back to another thing that he said, he's talking about how the government should have the
00:18:06.280ability to run the economy, and that a government-directed economy would work better than just a free
00:18:10.860market economy. Okay, so that idea actually goes back to the 1930s and not just to Marx, although
00:18:17.700some of it started there, but it also came about by a man named John Maynard Keynes, the idea of
00:18:23.640a government-directed economy. Keynes thought that if the government could somehow get in there
00:18:29.280and subsidize and stimulate the economy, that things would be better and we would prevent all
00:18:35.520this unemployment. So the idea was this huge amount of inflationary government spending,
00:18:40.900but the inflation would not outweigh the benefit in the reduction of unemployment. That was the
00:18:46.840idea. But, and it's like the whole foundation of Keynesian economics is this fun thing called
00:18:52.720the Phillips curve, but it has been proven false. It has not worked. Government spending,
00:18:58.520especially inflationary government spending, does not stimulate the economy like it should.
00:19:03.120Basically, you're adding more dollars to the economy, but you're inflating the price of
00:19:08.500everything. You're making everyone, you're making the dollars in the private sector
00:19:12.180worthless. So as a result, the spending power is reduced and unemployment is basically not
00:19:18.620affected. We see this huge amount of government spending now in Canada and unemployment has been
00:19:25.260unaffected by this huge amount of government spending. And there are a lot of reasons for
00:19:31.020this. Keynesian economics has not panned out, guys. It has not. So the things he's talking about,
00:19:36.580the government getting involved and Keynesian economics, it has not panned out. Keynesian
00:19:40.820economics did not pan out. It has resulted, the worst unemployment has resulted after this
00:19:47.220inflationary government spending than ever was before. So certain institutions like the Federal
00:19:53.240Reserve in the United States were created to prevent the Great Depression that people were
00:19:59.200screaming we're screaming about and the federal reserve was one of those institutions that had
00:20:04.000the power to stop this great depression but they did nothing and as a result then canteen economics
00:20:10.080came about about okay we need to print a whole bunch of money we need to spend it as much as we
00:20:14.080can make work projects get people working keep unemployment as low as possible and everything
00:20:19.760will be fine and unemployment was basically untouched and we had worse unemployment after
00:20:24.800this huge government intervention than we did before. So Keynesian economics did not pan out
00:20:29.920in any way. And I'm surprised that it is still being taught in our universities, but this is
00:20:35.280clear evidence that it is. And a lot of it comes down to the fact that inflationary spending just
00:20:43.120does not stimulate the economy. It doesn't. Inflation is basically a tax. I know you've
00:20:49.920heard this before but it's true what inflation does is when with the printing and the creation
00:20:56.000of more bonds and the printing of money and quantitative easing in the government it takes
00:21:02.080the share of money that's in the whole economy and it just puts a bigger percentage of that
00:21:07.680share in the government's hands in government control but there's still not an increase in goods
00:21:13.920So as a result, the amount of money is increased, but the amount of goods is not.
00:21:19.840So the price of everything goes up and you don't have the accretion of jobs like you wanted.
00:21:25.480Okay. Do you think it's scary, though, to hand the government this much control over our markets and over our lives,
00:21:32.860that it could eventually lead to the rise of a dictator?
00:21:36.120I don't think Canada has a problem right now.
00:21:38.520I believe that the liberals are kind of bigger government, stronger government control, right?
00:21:48.780And we have experienced the liberal government for 10 years already.
00:21:53.680They do have a lot of stuff to criticize, but I don't think liberals are kind of doing anything
00:21:58.820lead to dictatorship at all. Not at all, right? Even though...
00:22:03.160Yeah, no, they didn't crack down on free speech.
00:22:05.460They didn't attempt to imprison people for seven years for protesting the government and honking their horns.
00:22:11.720They're not trying to implement free speech, anti-free speech laws, you know, Bill C-8, Bill C-9.
00:22:19.380They're not cracking down on the internet or anything like that.
00:22:23.540There's no possible tendency in the current government towards dictatorship whatsoever.
00:22:28.220And there's no inclination at all that our current government is, you know, shifting towards certain global powers that might have dictatorial tendencies in them whatsoever.
00:22:56.760And Conservative Party are going to spend less and take less economy resources from the people.
00:23:04.800So if you don't afraid of a strong, big government from Liberal Party, neither the Conservatives' government.
00:23:11.260Okay. Yeah, but do you think the way that the Liberal Party came to the COVID crisis and telling us to stay in our homes and telling us to get vaccinated and to wear masks, was that erring on the side of dictatorship?
00:23:25.300Okay, so first of all, I think mask and vaccine are kind of useful.
00:23:34.380So maybe the way they work is not very perfect.
00:23:40.620But on my own side, I think we're a mask.