00:02:38.000And he would essentially tell me stories about how he'd started the business and sort of risked everything to make it work.
00:02:44.000So I think, I think I was sort of like exposed to that idea of risk, particularly financial risk from a young age.
00:02:50.000So to be honest, that's where I really got the inspiration to be involved in business.
00:02:54.000I feel like as well with the sort of Gymshark story, people assume that it was like this one thing that I tried and it went incredibly well.
00:03:03.000Between that work experience at 13, 14 years old and starting Gymshark at 19, I started like six or seven, maybe even more than that, different businesses and websites.
00:03:12.000All of which, which failed miserably before Gymshark was the one that, you know, essentially blew up.
00:03:20.000Now, let me ask you, when I, when I watch you speak, I feel fire in your spirit, your eyes, your energy.
00:03:28.000Have you always been a pretty serious guy?
00:03:31.000I mean, listen, we all have a, you know, softer side where we're around our family members.
00:03:34.000We're comfortable, we're loose, we're can just kind of be ourselves.
00:03:38.000But are you generally a pretty serious guy yourself?
00:05:00.000So that my parents were very opinionated.
00:05:03.000So I remember when I, so I worked incredibly hard to get into university, right?
00:05:07.000I was the first person in my family to ever get into university.
00:05:10.000It was an amazing opportunity for me and I was so incredibly proud.
00:05:14.000And my mom sort of had to really, really sort of sit me down and talk to me about concentrating in school to essentially get into university.
00:05:22.000So like I said, when I got in, they were so proud.
00:05:25.000So for 18 months later for me to call them and say, hey, I'm going to drop out of university.
00:05:30.000They were a little bit concerned at that point, albeit Gymshark at that point was doing quite well.
00:05:36.000But as soon as I'd made the decision and I said, right, that is it.
00:07:05.000So walk me through now your, the moment where you and your buddy Lewis are sitting there and you're saying, what if we start our own company called, you know, Gymshark.
00:07:16.000And, you know, how that led to you meeting Steve in 2015, kind of give me the history of how that takes place.
00:07:23.000So I said, I loved IT and I was really, really lucky actually, because in, in growing up, I, so I grew up in, I still live here.
00:07:33.000I grew up in a part of the UK called the West Midland.
00:09:01.000I think it was like four pound eight and out 80 an hour at pizza.
00:09:04.000So it was like, it just was unfathomable for me to be able to have that.
00:09:09.000So what we thought we would do is just make a website that would transact and then drop ship supplements.
00:09:15.000So for anyone that's watching that doesn't know what drop shipping is, it's basically you load the website up with a load of product that you don't actually own.
00:09:22.000Someone comes onto your website and buys it and you basically ship it from another vendor and it goes straight to the consumer and you make a small margin.
00:10:57.000Now, as we fast forward, that's when the business developed and roles sort of occurred.
00:11:01.000So, like I said, we were drop shipping and supplements and it was it was going OK.
00:11:05.000There'd be a sale every few days or so.
00:11:07.000But because the margins were so small, you'd be making like, you know, four or five pounds a week, maybe in terms of profits.
00:11:14.000So after a while and going back to sort of look, there was there was this, I guess, something that was so fortunate and lucky that just the stars had to align.
00:11:24.000So in Birmingham, there's a place called the NEC, which is the National Exhibition Centre.
00:11:29.000Now, every year they would have one of the best fitness events in the world called Body Power.
00:11:34.000And for me and all my friends that wanted to be bodybuilders and basically fitness people who just follow that YouTube scene massively and the bodybuilding scene, we check in with Olympia every year.
00:11:44.000That was like our one opportunity to see these amazing people from around the world, normally from, you know, the US and places like that.
00:11:50.000So every year we would go to Body Power just to be amongst the fitness champions of the world.
00:11:56.000And we were all walking around, me and my mates.
00:11:59.000And I'll never forget this because I had to sort of run off to Pizza Hook because my shifts would normally start at five.
00:12:03.000So we got there Saturday morning, spent the day there.
00:12:06.000And you're looking at all these people in all the fitness clothes and the stringer vest and the more the old school bodybuilding stuff.
00:12:12.000And then we try it on. But because we were more, you know, slender in our physique than the huge bodybuilders,
00:12:17.000it would like drown us because they would be so massive.
00:12:20.000So we just thought to ourselves, why don't we just try and make our own?
00:12:24.000Now, conveniently at the time, my nan was basically doing a curtain making course.
00:12:30.000So I thought to myself, why don't we buy a sewing machine?
00:12:33.000We bought a screen printer essentially with all of our savings.
00:12:37.000And we started to basically hand make clothes, to be honest, more for ourselves than anything else.
00:12:42.000And then happened to put them on the website.
00:12:44.000And I think that coincided with the fact that we love YouTube still do.
00:12:49.000Right. So I haven't watched telly since I was very, very young and it would always be around football or soccer in the States.
00:12:56.000And I literally just thought, right, let's let's send this product to that we love to some of our heroes on YouTube and see what they think.
00:13:05.000And those guys started to wear it more and more, you know, built up, I guess, a bit of a brand and people started buying our clothes online.
00:13:12.000So so was there a strength that Lewis played versus you?
00:13:15.000Because the reason why I asked this question is a lot of times there's other friends where, you know, they're in college together.
00:13:22.000They're thinking about doing something together.
00:13:24.000And they're, you know, when I go and speak at universities, I'll typically say rather than thinking about, you know, find your passion on what you want to do, but also recruit a good group of people that have opposing strengths to build your business with.
00:13:38.000Was there a strength he had that was different than yours? And what was your strength versus his?
00:13:42.000Yeah. So I think so at this point, I don't think we'd really work that out.
00:13:47.000I think we just had. And the thing that I think the thing that really worked with us is we were just almost ferociously passionate about what we were doing, both of us.
00:13:55.000So to be fair as well, just for context, we're 18, 19, 20 years old at this point.
00:14:01.000All of our friends would often go out and they'd be at university.
00:14:04.000We were the two that decided to go to university, but stay at home.
00:14:07.000So so we were the two, I think, in that area who were quite happy to sort of sacrifice everything else for this dream.
00:14:15.000Now, as it started to develop over the years and we started to have revenue and build our business, we definitely found sort of I guess our different strengths.
00:14:25.000But listen, Lewis ended up moving on from the business a few years later.
00:14:29.000So I don't think the cohesion was maybe as good as what it should have been, whereas later on when Steve joined the business about three years after we started, I think that's where we really found cohesion,
00:14:38.000because mine and Steve's strengths are completely opposite in terms of he's very much your more, I guess, how you'd see more of a typical business person in terms of very organized,
00:14:48.000a great people person, a manager experienced where I was a lot more around creative product and so on.
00:14:55.000And I really had to learn the other skills. So I think that's where that cohesion started to begin.
00:15:00.000Ben, are you today the CEO or today you're the chairman of the board and Steve's the CEO?
00:15:05.000Yeah, so Steve's the CEO today. And that was a decision that we made a few years ago.
00:15:10.000And I'm sat as sort of a chief product officer role, but I tend to jump around different areas of the business.
00:15:15.000Even though you're a 70 percent majority shareholder, you're the chief product officer.
00:15:18.000I applaud you for doing that. By the way, the first sale that was made after putting up the three months of the website,
00:15:24.000where you made $2 of profits. Did you ever track the customer down to see how they find you and what they bought and why they bought it on your site?
00:15:32.000I did. Because it's funny enough, because they were from the local area, so they'd heard of us.
00:15:37.000I mean, they'd live, you know, 10, 20 minutes. I sort of know of them. We're not sort of friends as such.
00:15:42.000But I think they just found out about it in the gym, in the local gyms.
00:15:47.000Very cool. At what point did you kind of have an idea that you're up to something big?
00:15:52.000Like when was it when you said, you know, I think this could really have some legs and turn into a real business?
00:15:59.000So to be honest, it happened quite quickly. So we I mentioned the Body Power Expo.
00:16:06.000We I was at that expo and this is when the business was very, very small.
00:16:10.000And I had a it was like a gut, a proper, proper innate gut feeling that we had to be there the following year.
00:16:18.000Bear in mind at this point, we had no product to be there. I just thought we have to be here.
00:16:21.000Now, when I think it was May 2011, we were walking around as customers and I just thought, right, we've got to be here.
00:16:28.000I went straight to the organizers stand and I said, I want to stand here next year.
00:16:32.000What does it cost? I think it was three thousand pounds for the entry level stand.
00:16:36.000And I just again, more money than we'd ever seen. But I thought, right, fine.
00:16:39.000We've got 12 months to pay for it. We'll find out a way of doing it.
00:16:43.000So we booked into that. And over the year, that's where we handmade a lot of these clothes and we built up the brand.
00:16:48.000Now, about two or three months before that event, the people, the YouTubers that we've been sending product to,
00:16:54.000who had over time become friends that we've been chatting to over Skype, we invited them to come to the event with us.
00:16:59.000So they were all buzzing. Some of them were from the States and hadn't been to the UK before.
00:17:03.000Some of them were from the UK. And we did this event.
00:17:07.000And I'm not saying it was a corporate event because it wasn't.
00:17:11.000But we were just like, listen, there's we're here. We want to chat with the community.
00:17:14.000We would just love the community more than anything anyway. And almost like, by the way, if you want to buy some product, then that's great.
00:17:20.000But after the show, we're going to go to the gym and we can all lift together.
00:17:23.000And we sort of started to started to build this community. The show went really, really well.
00:17:27.000I was really happy with how it went. We sold out of a lot of the stuff.
00:17:30.000But over that weekend, because there was only a small handful of us in the business, we turned all the website off.
00:17:35.000We thought, right, we'll kick it back off Monday when the event's finished.
00:17:39.000Now, what I didn't realize is we'd stumbled upon, I guess, the sort of marketing mix, as you call it, of today.
00:17:46.000So we did an in real life event where we launched new products and no one could get their hands on it.
00:17:51.000We had all these YouTubers and what are now called social media influencers there that were posting on Facebook and YouTube and so on and built up this huge, crazy demand and hype that everyone was looking at.
00:18:01.000And then, like I said, because we were going and lifting with everyone after the event, all of those guys were following us on social and sort of falling in love with the brand and the community that we were all building together.
00:18:10.000Now, after the event, I went home and I was sat at my parents' house one evening and I just sort of turned the website on, thinking nothing would happen, posted on Facebook just to let everyone know that it's back.
00:18:20.000And we're launching the product that we'd sold at the event.
00:18:23.000Now, before the event, for context, we were selling on average two to three hundred pound a day worth of product.
00:18:29.000Again, very, very proud of where we'd built up to. We were doing really well.
00:18:33.000The first half an hour after we turned the website back on, we sold thirty thousand pounds of product, sold out of everything.
00:18:41.000And I was literally because the stock was set to infinite. I was having to go through each product and turn it off because we had to go and make the product.
00:18:49.000And I'll never forget it. Right. It was about one o'clock in the morning. The website was turned off.
00:18:53.000We have thirty thousand pound worth of revenue, more revenue than we'd ever thought was possible in a 30 minute period.
00:18:59.000And I was literally sat there on my own. I was thinking, OK, now now we're on to some special.
00:19:04.000And that's when I left Pizza Hut. That's when I left university.
00:19:07.000And that's when everything was just all focused on Gymsha.
00:19:10.000Wow. Thirty thousand dollars in first 30 minutes.
00:19:13.000And you're used to doing three hundred, two hundred to three hundred a day.
00:19:17.000And that takes off to thirty thousand. You turn off all the products. OK, so when that happens, by the way, Ben, how many shirts have you personally sewn?
00:19:25.000If you were to say I've sewn that, you know, so many shirts, how many have you personally sewn?
00:19:30.000I could probably work it out. It would it would I would say I would guess between five hundred and a thousand.
00:19:38.000It wouldn't be massive amounts, but at the time it felt like a lot.
00:19:41.000Five hundred to a thousand. And so people still have them.
00:19:45.000And now when we go to events prior to COVID, people would come in some of the original ones.
00:19:49.000And because there was always slight imperfections in the print or something.
00:19:54.000And I would sort of instantly know or remember it would come back to me as to that's one of the handmade products.
00:19:58.000Wow. I bet. I mean, it's a form of art when you're designing those because it's it's limited edition.
00:20:04.000It's it's not necessarily something that's it's a one off because it's being handmade.
00:20:09.000OK, so that thirty thousand dollar event takes place in 30 minutes.
00:20:15.000Products done. You turn everything off. What are you doing next?
00:20:18.000Well, this is where it became what I would call like a real business, because this is where we had to sort of hire people.
00:20:25.000We were starting to buy stock and take more and more risks.
00:20:28.000We got our first sort of unit slash small warehouse.
00:22:27.000And they do so much right all the way from bodybuilding to there was sort of like people to talk to around sort of joining the military.
00:22:34.000I think there was all these different sports, even having Arnold Schwarzenegger there was just an amazing thing to see.
00:22:41.000Whereas the European Expos tend to be quite you have a bodybuilding expo and then you have maybe a slightly different expo for different things.
00:22:49.000But the thing that really hit me, especially going to places like Germany and the States, was it's almost hit you even harder doing it in the international stage because you just assume that no one has heard of the brand.
00:23:01.000And it was on that. That was the moment when I'm starting to realize that, wow, this social media thing, this website online direct to consumer e-commerce thing is it's a global thing now.
00:23:11.000Whereas when you're at home, it just feels like a little bit of a thing that happens around where you are.
00:23:15.000And a lot of people do drop shipping, a lot of people create sites, a lot of people sell shirts, a lot of people do not necessarily what you guys are doing at this scale, but a lot of people start off and they do well for themselves.
00:23:28.000Very few get valued at one and a half billion dollars of a business where people around the world are talking and they have millions of loyal followers.
00:23:38.000What would you say was the biggest differentiator between you guys and everybody else?
00:23:44.000Now, as the business grew, I think we built an amazing culture.
00:23:47.000So internally, we've got a brilliant culture and a great balance of people that are really trying to create, you know, the next big thing and the next special thing.
00:23:54.000Especially those who are building a really robust business, because you'll know, right, when you get to scale, it's all well and good.
00:23:59.000But if you're not built on solid foundations, it's sort of irrelevant.
00:24:03.000And to be honest, I had a fair few learning curves myself.
00:24:06.000So I mentioned the entrepreneurial phase.
00:24:09.000During the entrepreneurial phase, which I think is the more quintessential view of what an entrepreneur is, it's like you have your vision and you move towards it.
00:24:17.000And regardless of what anyone says around you, that's irrelevant, right?
00:24:22.000You move forward to where you think it should be. And for me, it was about grabbing the business by the scruff of the neck to where I thought it should be no matter what.
00:24:29.000Then all of a sudden, almost overnight, you build a team and you can't just grab the business around the scruff of the neck to where you want to go when you've got a team, because you'll start to alienate those individuals.
00:24:39.000So I had a few sort of wake up moments, which was like, oh, God, now I need to shift my life.
00:24:44.000I need to change for the business to become someone that's more of a, you know, a team player and a leader in that respect.
00:24:50.000And to be fair, I learned a lot of that from Steve. And then the business grows and grows and grows.
00:24:54.000And now the business is at a stage where, I mean, last calendar year, we did over half a billion dollars in revenue.
00:25:00.000We've got offices in Colorado and UK and Mauritius and Hong Kong. All of a sudden now for me, it's all about, right, what's the long term vision?
00:25:07.000I'm a lot more strategic. I need to think outside the box. I need to try and really think about what's next and be one step ahead all the time.
00:25:13.000So I think me adapting and everyone in the company adapting, I think it's powerful.
00:25:18.000I think we've got an incredible culture, which, again, is incredibly powerful.
00:25:22.000I also think that we took risks where other people wouldn't.
00:25:27.000So I go back to those events we'd saved over time up to having.
00:25:32.000I think we had about a million pounds in the bank, which that was at twenty one, twenty two years old.
00:25:37.000And we spent every single penny on it, on growth, every single penny on the community,
00:25:42.000every single penny on meeting as many people as possible.
00:25:44.000And and that's all the athletes and the staff and myself.
00:25:47.000And I would always meet as many people as we can.
00:25:49.000So I think the business model helped as well. I think the culture helped.
00:25:53.000And ultimately, I think we have a really great product.
00:25:56.000And I think that's we can invest even further into our product because we're built in a way that I think the future of brands will be built.
00:26:02.000So you'll know that during yesteryear, some of the larger brands would be built in a way where they would build as much product as they can to put into as many stores as they can to please.
00:26:11.000as many people as they can. And that was sort of the the route to success during the high street era.
00:26:17.000Whereas now this entirely new landscape that we're all a part of, you can create a genuine purposeful product that's built for a specific community and you can reach them across the world.
00:26:27.000And if we know anything about the younger generation, right, they want to buy a brand that really resonates with their core values.
00:26:33.000And I think Gymshark does that. Ben, how hard were you?
00:26:37.000Did you were you and Lewis or any of your friends in the partying scene or no?
00:26:41.000No, not really. Listen, I think there's the odd thing that you'll go out here and there, but particularly when we were younger,
00:26:47.000we were absolutely dead sure on this is where we wanted to spend our time and this is where we wanted to be.
00:26:51.000What kind of what kind of schedule did you have? What kind of work schedule did you have?
00:26:55.000So again, to be honest, Patrick, this is something I'm only just learning now. So it varies massively, but it would be it would be a typical sort of entrepreneurial thing.
00:27:03.000Right. You would wake up and you would just work and you would work and work and work.
00:27:07.000And then I would gym and I would go to bed. And then as the business starts to scale,
00:27:11.000it's brilliant because you can literally outsource your weaknesses. So one of my weaknesses is like I'm not very organized.
00:27:18.000So all of a sudden now I wake up and I have like a set of train tracks through the day which I can work through, which is sort of provided for me.
00:27:24.000But during the startup phase, it genuinely is a case of being dead set on your vision, working incredibly hard, sometimes through the night if you need to.
00:27:33.000And just moving forward no matter what. You said your parents, whether it was your dad or your parents, they were big on mindset.
00:27:40.000What were some of the mindset they were telling you about? You constantly talk about mindset.
00:27:44.000Yeah. So so my so my mom is incredibly hard working. So she works in the NHS here and she has done since I was born and obviously before that.
00:27:55.000So I think from from my mom, I learned just work incredibly hard. So as a kid, she would work nights.
00:28:00.000She would work all night. She'd come home, take me to school, sleep whilst we were at school and then pick us up after school.
00:28:07.000My dad's incredibly hard working as well. And you're right. He would always talk about mindset.
00:28:12.000We I love sport growing up. I loved football. I love soccer. And he would always say it's all about sort of mental strength.
00:28:19.000It's all about your mind. You know, listen to the advice that people give you.
00:28:23.000You can learn something from everyone that you meet. And he would always sort of put a little asterisk next to that and say, but remember, you choose which advice you apply to yourself.
00:28:31.000It's almost like thinking of your mind is like a computer and you choose the sort of updates that you wish to patch into your mind.
00:28:38.000And I think that's been really powerful because I've had a lot of brilliant advice.
00:28:42.000I've also had a fair bit of bad advice, too. So you sort of choose what you take on and, you know, develop yourself into and into who you want to be.
00:28:50.000You said your mom talked to you about concentration because you said up until 16 years old, you know, you didn't have good grades and you learn how to get good grades.
00:29:00.000How did your mom work with you? It's very hard to be concentrating at that age, especially when you're saying you're not a organized person and a lot of entrepreneurs type A personalities.
00:29:12.000I mean, you're an introvert yourself. You've talked about it openly. But how did your mom work with you on concentration?
00:29:18.000I think she always had. I think she still does. Like I said, she doesn't understand the ins and outs of Gymshark and what I do and maybe what I did when I was younger.
00:29:28.000But I think she she she knew that I could do like great things.
00:29:33.000But I think her confidence in me sort of helped give me confidence. So when she sort of said to me, listen, you can do really well at school if you put your mind to it.
00:29:40.000Then all of a sudden I'm like, well, do you know what? I'm going to give it a go then. And I think that confidence really helped.
00:29:46.000Got it. Last but not least, your vision. You said the vision is to compete with a Nike or an Adidas or Under Armour.
00:29:55.000Where are you at now with the vision of Gymshark?
00:29:58.000Listen, I think maybe I'm less about scale, because if we want scale, I think we could get it in terms of we could sell Gymshark into many high street stores and we could double, triple, quadruple the business in a very, very quick timeframe.
00:30:15.000For me, it's about building what I think the future of brands will be. And as I mentioned before, it's a community focused brand that has, you know, you know, a distinct value behind it.
00:30:26.000And I think that's where I want to go. So it's less about scale, but it's about creating the best fitness brand in the world.
00:30:32.000And I think that comes with being a direct to consumer brand, a brand that is agile and lean so we can invest into the community and in the product rather than in, you know, thousands of shops around the world.
00:30:43.040So we're doing incredibly well. Listen, we're eight years old. We're, like I said, half a billion dollars in revenue.
00:30:50.140We've been the UK's fastest growing business from a top line perspective, but we also had, we have won the award a couple of years ago for one of the UK's fastest growing businesses from a profit perspective as well.
00:30:59.620So many businesses scale the top line, but often not the bottom line. So for us to do both, I think is really powerful.
00:31:06.300And it means that we can invest in the long term of this brand and the long term of this business. And we're really focused on those long term decisions.
00:31:13.040Yeah, it's pretty exciting what you've done, man. You know, kudos to you for building a story like the one you have.
00:31:19.260Kai Loda is the one that recommended you to have you on Valuetainment. And Kai's from Norway. And he says, Pat, Ben is everywhere in Norway, everywhere in Europe, everywhere we go.
00:31:31.320We hear about Gymshark. And I looked up your story. I said, that's a fantastic story. Let's have him on Valuetainment.
00:31:37.120So with that being said, Ben, thank you so much for being a guest on Valuetainment.
00:31:40.440Thank you for having me, Patrick. Thank you. I appreciate it.
00:31:43.480You know, what's crazy is somewhere in the world, some 17-year-old kid is going to be watching this video, being inspired by Ben Francis to start the next Gymshark that will find out about 10 years from now, if you watch it accordingly.
00:31:55.340So if you are somebody that's watching this and you were inspired by Ben, make sure to share this with others that you may know who may be a teenager and say, listen, son, brother, nephew, niece, watch this video.
00:32:07.020This kid could inspire you because what Ben has done, the world needs to know about his story.
00:32:12.040Having said that, if you enjoyed this interview with Ben, I'm curious to know what you took away from it.
00:32:16.240I think you would also enjoy the interview I did with Chip Wilson, the founder of Lululemon, how he went from zero to building nearly a $15 billion company with a net worth of $4 billion plus.