Valuetainment - August 23, 2025


＂Bad Leaders DESTROY Companies＂ - Target Loses $12B & Stock CRASHES After CEO SHOCKING Exit


Episode Stats

Length

19 minutes

Words per Minute

187.43034

Word Count

3,700

Sentence Count

350

Hate Speech Sentences

5


Summary

Walmart and Target are two of the fastest-growing U.S. retailing companies, and they're doing so in opposite directions. In this episode, we take a deep dive into the difference between the two, and why Walmart is doing so much better than Target.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 When you think about what happened with Target, Target stock plunges 7% as the new CEO picks.
00:00:05.860 New CEO pick disappoints Wall Street.
00:00:07.840 There won't be change when change is needed.
00:00:11.600 Okay, this is page 16.
00:00:14.020 Rob, I want to combine this with Walmart together, Rob, and then Tom, I'm going to come to you.
00:00:19.220 And I think you're going to be ready for this one.
00:00:21.500 All right, so let's do this one here.
00:00:23.100 Target shares up 7% to 98% after naming Chief Operating Officer Michael Fidelke
00:00:28.860 as CEO effective February 1st, 2026, replacing Brian Cornell,
00:00:33.120 who said there is no one better suited to move Target forward than Michael Fidelke,
00:00:36.980 but investors expecting an external hire were disappointed.
00:00:39.940 Gerald Storch, former Target vice chairman and ex-Toys R Us CEO, told The Post,
00:00:45.980 this guy's apparently got credibility, he's the ex-Toys R Us CEO,
00:00:49.040 the stock price reflects that there won't be change when change is needed.
00:00:54.320 Fidelke, 20-year veteran at Target, responded during an internal meeting saying
00:00:57.740 there are no shortage of critics out there today.
00:01:03.800 The way to prove these critics wrong is with action that leads to results.
00:01:07.860 Target reported a 1.9% decline in same-store sales for the second quarter,
00:01:12.220 ending August 2nd, 2025, with customer transactions down 1.3%,
00:01:15.460 and average spending per transaction down 0.6% despite beating Wall Street earnings estimates.
00:01:20.860 As Fidelke noted on a post-earning call, now we need to move more of those examples across the category,
00:01:27.420 but they can give me a ton of confidence that we're on the right path here,
00:01:31.520 citing improvements in home goods like Disney and Marvel.
00:01:34.580 Now, while this is happening, folks, the complete opposite is happening with Walmart.
00:01:40.060 Walmart wins over more shoppers as tariff push prices higher.
00:01:45.840 Those are two separate stories.
00:01:47.360 Rob, is this a tariff story or the target story?
00:01:49.380 This is Walmart and the tariffs.
00:01:51.160 Okay, did you have the target story as well?
00:01:53.960 You had a clip on Target?
00:01:54.920 Yes.
00:01:55.200 Is this the pastor?
00:01:55.800 This is the pastor.
00:01:56.400 Okay, so CNN does a story on this one pastor.
00:01:58.460 I don't know if you guys remember this or not.
00:02:00.520 And this actually became a very big campaign that this black pastor was driving,
00:02:06.620 saying black Americans spend $12 million a day at Target, but Target doesn't listen to us.
00:02:13.260 Watch this clip.
00:02:14.060 Go for it.
00:02:14.900 Let's be honest.
00:02:15.460 When you started this, there were naysayers.
00:02:17.740 There were people who didn't believe the fast would work.
00:02:20.820 Yeah.
00:02:21.100 Where we are right now is the stock has plummeted.
00:02:25.200 The valuation has dropped by $12 billion.
00:02:29.160 Foot traffic is down by 7.9%.
00:02:32.320 The former CEO's salary was slashed by 42%, and now they got a new CEO.
00:02:38.780 What have you learned through this process about the interaction of Target and this community in particular?
00:02:43.560 Yeah, well, this is the most effective and sustainable boycott for black people in 70 years since the Montgomery bus boycott.
00:02:52.080 And so it was not muscle memory.
00:02:54.940 We had to teach a new generation on the sustainability of unity and that you don't see it overnight, but it's a protracted process.
00:03:03.660 Look, if you didn't know, we, a lot of people, especially black people, love Target.
00:03:08.900 In fact, they gave it a nickname of Tarjay at some point.
00:03:11.300 What was that like trying to convince folks out there to give it up?
00:03:14.160 Knowledge is power.
00:03:15.340 The Bible says people die from a lack of knowledge.
00:03:18.280 When black people understood that we spend $12 million a day at Target, and I couldn't think or find one black company that earns $12 million a day,
00:03:28.920 people begin to have the light bulb go off and say, I can't spend my dollars where I'm not getting dignity.
00:03:36.360 Tom, thoughts?
00:03:37.620 Well, there's three things here.
00:03:39.560 First, Target in 2023, they had that, they go back, they had a CEO that came from the outside world, not, didn't grow up in Target.
00:03:48.260 He was there 10 years.
00:03:49.120 The first five got kind of rough because, boom, suddenly he's in COVID.
00:03:52.800 But as it came out of COVID in 2023, he went DEI crazy and was putting all of these trans kids bathing suits for six-year-olds.
00:04:01.720 Tuck-friendly.
00:04:02.420 Yeah, that contained instructions and said they were tuck-friendly.
00:04:05.820 So tell your six-year-old boy, don't worry about this little extra equipment you came with.
00:04:09.560 We're just going to tuck it in here.
00:04:10.780 Mommy, you're hurting me.
00:04:11.740 And so he had that, and everybody freaked out.
00:04:15.960 And meanwhile, there was also these churches that were looking at it and saying, wait a minute, we don't think this is dignified.
00:04:22.940 And it wasn't a weekend boycott.
00:04:27.020 This has been multi-year, and it's been very effective.
00:04:29.600 It's been over two years that this has been working.
00:04:32.360 And what they do is Target fast.
00:04:34.420 For those of you that don't know what the word means in this category, when they say a fast, it's like you will fast from something,
00:04:40.700 meaning you will abstain from it.
00:04:42.460 Hey, I'm fasting, accept water on Friday, and I'm having a day of reflection and prayer.
00:04:47.820 So you're fasting from food.
00:04:49.380 So when you see those signs that say Target fast, it says time to fast from Target, meaning abstain from Target.
00:04:55.020 It's been very, very effective.
00:04:57.420 Meanwhile, when all of this went down, what did Walmart do?
00:05:02.300 Hey, remind them that we're from Bentonville, Arkansas.
00:05:05.740 Remind them what we stand for.
00:05:08.300 And Walmart said, guess what?
00:05:11.340 We are seeing customers switch to other items that are affected or not affected by tariff,
00:05:17.500 but we will continue to absorb some of the cost of tariffs to keep price hikes below national retail averages.
00:05:25.460 In other words, we're going to try with the tariffs, with all the inflation and everything,
00:05:28.560 we're going to see if we can get our price increases to be lower than the national average.
00:05:32.640 So we're trying to help the consumer more.
00:05:35.480 And they went back and they doubled down on who they were, which was America's big box retailer.
00:05:42.220 And so Target takes the L.
00:05:44.620 Then what do they do?
00:05:47.320 They say, hey, we have a great idea.
00:05:49.920 The COO who's been here, who's part of this executive team, we're going to put him in charge.
00:05:54.460 And he's been around forever.
00:05:55.980 It's like, what?
00:05:57.420 What?
00:05:57.920 It's like I have two kids.
00:05:59.180 Let's say I got two 15-year-old sons.
00:06:01.020 They're both delinquents.
00:06:02.000 One of them breaks a bunch of windows in the neighborhood.
00:06:05.380 And then we say, that's okay.
00:06:06.300 This is what I'm going to do.
00:06:07.220 My other son is going to be president of Neighborhood Watch.
00:06:10.940 That'll work.
00:06:11.960 Wait a minute.
00:06:13.100 He was running with the—
00:06:14.180 That's actually a very good example you're using there.
00:06:16.100 Yeah, to say the same.
00:06:17.540 So let me ask you, though.
00:06:18.400 Would you bring somebody from the outside in this situation?
00:06:20.640 Would you use the same—would you use somebody internally?
00:06:22.660 Because maybe, you know, maybe, just maybe, this guy was the problem.
00:06:28.000 Maybe, just maybe, this guy was part of the issue of being too much of DEI.
00:06:33.340 Now, do we know if this guy, Michael Fidelke, this guy was the other guy's right-hand guy?
00:06:39.000 Is that what we know?
00:06:39.720 That's correct.
00:06:40.220 He was the COO.
00:06:41.400 And sometimes I think you have to make the move that Starbucks made.
00:06:44.520 Hey, we chose the wrong guy.
00:06:46.200 Goodbye.
00:06:46.480 And we're going to bring somebody from the outside because we want the outside guy to address everybody on the outside.
00:06:52.300 So what if this guy's the interim guy until they find a guy to get a full-time job?
00:06:56.480 Because, Rob, can you pull up the picture I just sent you right now in text?
00:06:59.580 Here's what happened to the stocks.
00:07:01.040 This is by far the best visual to look at, what I'm about to show you.
00:07:04.120 It's going to show you where Target's stock price was a couple years ago compared to where Walmart is now today.
00:07:10.940 Watch this.
00:07:11.920 Bingo.
00:07:12.760 The red is Target.
00:07:13.980 Look where Target was in 2022, and look where Walmart was.
00:07:18.940 Actually, look at that number.
00:07:20.020 Target was close to $300 a share.
00:07:22.580 Walmart was at $80 a share.
00:07:24.840 Fast forward to today.
00:07:26.600 Walmart's nearly $300 a share.
00:07:29.060 Target is at $60 a share, give or take.
00:07:32.300 One bad leader can destroy a brand.
00:07:35.980 There was a point people were saying Target's a better product than Walmart.
00:07:39.760 But you know what?
00:07:40.380 The moment you forget who your customer is, who shops at your place, families, families who can't afford.
00:07:48.640 This is low- and middle-income families that are coming to your place.
00:07:51.280 Hell, we would go shop at Target.
00:07:52.820 I'm telling you ourselves, we would go shop at Target.
00:07:54.880 And I'm a Sam Walton guy.
00:07:56.280 But you make decisions like this, you lose them.
00:07:59.100 The thing that this was a double whammy, Tom, this is the part that was a double whammy.
00:08:03.920 Not only did they lose the family guys by going woke with the whole trans, all that stuff, but you lose the black vote?
00:08:10.960 How do you do that?
00:08:12.460 You lost both of them at the same time?
00:08:14.740 That's what you call double dumb, is what you call it, right?
00:08:17.220 That's right.
00:08:17.540 Adam, your thoughts on this?
00:08:18.220 The Hemingway School of Gun Cleaning.
00:08:20.260 Adam, thoughts?
00:08:21.580 So, go woke, go broke.
00:08:24.980 I mean, that's a similar theme here.
00:08:26.120 I mean, Target is basically the Disney of retail shopping.
00:08:29.880 You know, don't forget where Target, their headquarters is located.
00:08:33.360 Do you know where it is?
00:08:34.820 Minneapolis.
00:08:35.180 Minneapolis, Minnesota.
00:08:36.160 Weird.
00:08:36.880 So, interesting, the George Floyd situation, they're at the tip of the spear.
00:08:41.240 Meanwhile, you said that Walmart's headquarters isn't where, Arkansas?
00:08:45.940 Pretty red state.
00:08:46.960 Almost, some might call it one of the reddest states in the country.
00:08:50.260 You know, I used to, believe it or not, guys, there's no Walmart in South Beach.
00:08:55.360 So, I haven't been to Walmart in years.
00:08:57.320 The only time I actually did spend time at Walmart is when I live in this beautiful, beautiful town called Addison, Texas.
00:09:04.960 I went to Walmart after living in Miami my entire life.
00:09:08.840 I was like, oh, my God, everything's free.
00:09:11.240 Everything.
00:09:12.760 92 cents, 44 cents, $1.29, like anything.
00:09:18.720 You could buy anything you want.
00:09:19.880 It was crazy.
00:09:21.040 Save that money.
00:09:22.200 There is a Target in Miami Beach, in Miami, that I'll go to from time to time.
00:09:26.500 And I understand why he said that, you know, certain people call it Target.
00:09:30.180 It is a classier type of shopping experience.
00:09:33.160 But go woke, go broke.
00:09:35.440 I don't, how do you think Target is going to, do you think they're going to bounce back from this, Pat?
00:09:40.300 Like, I don't see Target going out of business or anything like that.
00:09:42.840 This is the part I'm really trying to find out on, was it DEI?
00:09:48.540 Was it not listening to the African-American community with that pastor who looks like he's a second away from singing a song called,
00:09:56.840 My Mind's Telling Me No, But My Body?
00:09:58.420 He looked, I mean, he looked like he was related to, but watch this here.
00:10:03.600 So if you, Rob, can you pull up, did Walmart have DEI?
00:10:06.420 And can you compare DEI policies between Walmart and Target?
00:10:11.480 Compare DEI policies between Walmart and Target.
00:10:14.780 Because it's not like Walmart wasn't doing some DEI stuff.
00:10:18.180 Walmart did do some DEI stuff.
00:10:18.980 Yeah, Walmart did it as well, just not at the level.
00:10:21.040 But they didn't make the headlines for the talking.
00:10:23.320 They didn't go full.
00:10:24.240 So they ended their DEI program November of 2024.
00:10:28.400 Trump got selected.
00:10:30.080 Significantly scaling back the DEI, including sunsetting a racial equity center established after George Floyd.
00:10:36.680 Phases out DEI language, replacing it with communication with terms like belonging and experience.
00:10:40.980 Though still asserting that equity and non-discrimination remain core.
00:10:44.560 Okay, stopped prioritizing suppliers based on racial, gender, diversity, and also removed certain transgender.
00:10:50.580 Okay, so they had it.
00:10:51.940 They removed it.
00:10:52.860 Very quickly.
00:10:53.260 But they did have it.
00:10:54.340 Yes.
00:10:54.860 So external reaction shareholders, Democratic Pivotal pushback, requesting rollbacks, lawmakers, Arkansas, Walmart changes.
00:11:01.000 Okay, now let's go to Target.
00:11:02.700 Policy changes, concluded major DEI internships early 2025.
00:11:07.160 Okay, so they waited a couple months later, including wrapping up the three-year DEI goal and reach, whatever.
00:11:12.500 Okay, ended participation, external diversity surveys.
00:11:16.240 Management cited alignment with the evolving external change.
00:11:20.360 Significant consumer pushback, including boycott and loss of market value.
00:11:24.480 Target reportedly shed $12.4 billion of market value and faced a 40-day boycott after the rollback.
00:11:30.840 So it's interesting.
00:11:32.920 African Americans at that church went after Target, but not Walmart.
00:11:37.980 Why not?
00:11:39.100 Because perception is reality.
00:11:41.140 Yeah, that's so.
00:11:41.920 I think Target is more woke than Walmart.
00:11:44.300 Just a few months moving faster for Walmart.
00:11:47.740 Save them.
00:11:48.460 But it's not even the African American rollback, because if you go back up to Walmart, go back up a little bit more.
00:11:54.860 Look what it says right there.
00:11:56.180 External reaction shareholders and Democratic officials pushback, requesting explanations for the rollback, calling it disheartening.
00:12:03.780 Well, the stock went to $300.
00:12:04.860 State lawmakers in Arkansas questioned Walmart leaders on the changes, and Walmart responded by emphasizing that associate treatment, hiring practices, and supplier efforts have not changed.
00:12:15.560 Backlash from customers and staff followed, including boycotts over the rollback Walmart defense.
00:12:20.300 So I don't know.
00:12:21.460 Now, DEI may look somewhat similar here.
00:12:23.320 I don't know here.
00:12:23.980 But remember what the I stood for at Target.
00:12:26.940 DEI, they went hard to the hoop on trans.
00:12:30.560 And they did it around kids.
00:12:33.180 So Target put all that stuff all out in front when you walked in, trans kids.
00:12:40.380 So when you look at DEI, compare trans with Walmart and Target.
00:12:47.240 And while he's doing that, Tom, I just don't understand, like, when you see what's happening with Bud Light, and you see, like, these people, could they just not get out of their way?
00:12:55.420 What makes you as a company with shareholders, Pat?
00:12:57.500 Go, you know what?
00:12:58.060 Go for it.
00:12:58.180 Bud Light has not completely recovered.
00:13:00.260 No, hell no, they're not going to completely.
00:13:01.660 They came back up, but they did not.
00:13:03.300 Dana White went on board.
00:13:04.860 Yeah, but guess what?
00:13:05.580 I think Shane Gillis is now a spokesperson.
00:13:07.660 That boat still has water in it.
00:13:08.740 Meaning they're getting more in line with who their customer is.
00:13:11.380 Man, I drink beer.
00:13:12.220 Yeah, but that blow was a hard.
00:13:14.240 Yeah, I don't know.
00:13:14.980 Oh, I believe that.
00:13:15.560 Honestly, Walmart got lucky here.
00:13:19.100 Truly, Walmart got lucky here.
00:13:20.440 Because Walmart also had the trans stuff in their company as well.
00:13:24.120 They simply got targeted.
00:13:25.540 And the CEO had no clue how to handle it better.
00:13:28.200 Their marketing team probably had no clue how to do it.
00:13:30.080 Their PR team didn't know how to handle it better.
00:13:31.760 That tells you bad PR, bad marketing, bad storytelling, bad leadership, moving too slowly, cost them $12 billion.
00:13:38.220 And Walmart moved faster by a few months.
00:13:40.520 Just by moving a couple months faster, saved yourself $12 billion.
00:13:44.380 I don't know how much it costs Walmart.
00:13:45.720 Can you go to Walmart's stock price, please, Rob?
00:13:48.640 Go to Walmart's stock price.
00:13:49.900 Let's just kind of go five years, if you don't mind.
00:13:51.720 Go to the five-year right there to the right, all the way to the right.
00:13:54.200 Zoom out a little bit.
00:13:54.880 Okay, so let's see right there.
00:13:56.820 So what, interesting.
00:13:58.380 So market cap, can we go to market cap?
00:14:00.480 It's not $7.84.
00:14:01.780 What was Walmart's market cap?
00:14:03.600 Go to 2020.
00:14:05.100 What was Walmart's market cap 2020?
00:14:07.860 Just ask the question.
00:14:09.220 No, if you just ask, what was Walmart and Target's market cap in 2020 versus 2025?
00:14:19.220 You should know this.
00:14:20.080 I messed up.
00:14:20.880 I'm trying to find out because if we look at market cap, because stock doesn't mean anything.
00:14:25.920 It just, you don't know what the valuation is.
00:14:28.060 I want to know how much was lost.
00:14:29.360 So end of 2020, Walmart was a $408 billion company.
00:14:33.540 Now it's a $781 to $819 billion company.
00:14:38.440 It's almost doubled.
00:14:39.280 Wow.
00:14:39.640 Target end up, in 2020, was a $88 billion company.
00:14:44.300 Damn.
00:14:45.300 They're now only a $44 billion company.
00:14:48.040 Yeah.
00:14:48.240 So Walmart doubled in valuation.
00:14:51.020 Target split.
00:14:51.900 So COVID destroyed Target.
00:14:54.560 While Target was getting close to competing with Walmart, Walmart is officially, look, look
00:15:00.020 what it was in 2020, Tom.
00:15:01.760 Walmart was only four and a half times bigger than Target.
00:15:07.160 Walmart is now 20 times bigger than Target.
00:15:11.900 They got destroyed.
00:15:13.400 Very, very interesting because it's not as black and white as you see it here.
00:15:16.780 It's not.
00:15:17.580 It's not just DEI.
00:15:18.800 Walmart's a better run organization.
00:15:20.840 Organization.
00:15:21.380 Yeah.
00:15:21.800 I think there's more to it than we're looking at.
00:15:24.440 And so anyways, we'll see.
00:15:26.220 We'll see what happens with these guys.
00:15:26.980 Do you think people are just deciding, all right, I'm not going to go shop at Target.
00:15:29.760 I'm going elsewhere?
00:15:31.160 A part of it could be, so for example, the three words at the beginning of the year, speed,
00:15:37.360 signal, product.
00:15:38.640 Speed, signal, product.
00:15:40.080 Look at this.
00:15:40.860 That's the word I announced beginning of the year this year, right?
00:15:43.760 Speed.
00:15:44.440 How fast did they address that DEI wasn't working?
00:15:47.760 Not as fast as Walmart.
00:15:48.500 Not too rapid.
00:15:48.920 How fast did they replace leadership team that needed to be replaced?
00:15:53.980 Not fast enough, okay?
00:15:55.820 Signal.
00:15:56.600 How much noise did Target create and not know how to handle the noise?
00:16:00.320 A lot.
00:16:00.480 Way more noise with Target than Walmart.
00:16:02.160 Of course.
00:16:02.520 Way more noise.
00:16:03.700 And last but not least, product.
00:16:05.220 What did they actually buy, invest in, and develop?
00:16:09.660 What?
00:16:10.000 What did Target do to make the product be better?
00:16:13.120 Who knows?
00:16:13.720 What did Walmart do?
00:16:14.760 They made the investment.
00:16:15.660 Tom, you look like you want to say something.
00:16:16.960 I want to ask you a question.
00:16:17.960 Please.
00:16:18.640 Pat, you're now on the board of Target.
00:16:20.500 Yep.
00:16:21.320 That right there, do you take the COO of the last 10 years and put them in the chair?
00:16:26.420 I don't.
00:16:26.980 I don't do it.
00:16:28.180 No, no, you're right.
00:16:28.840 That's what I'm saying.
00:16:29.380 The more I'm thinking about this, the more I'm going, I don't even think it's DEI only.
00:16:34.700 I don't think it's ESG only.
00:16:36.620 I don't think it's a black vote only.
00:16:39.160 I think it's called, hey, you know, here's a question, Rob.
00:16:42.300 Can you do me a favor?
00:16:43.400 Can you find out if Target ever reached out that pastor?
00:16:46.260 You know that pastor from that church that the video came up?
00:16:49.260 What's his name?
00:16:50.100 Jamal Bryant.
00:16:50.680 Can you ask if Target, did Target ever reach out to Jamal Bryant to have a conversation with him?
00:16:56.640 I'm curious.
00:16:57.440 I'm going to assume no.
00:16:58.280 I'm actually curious.
00:16:59.620 Did Target ever reach out to Jamal Bryant?
00:17:04.760 Let's see here.
00:17:05.640 You're asking with the Target.
00:17:10.560 Yes.
00:17:10.920 There was one meeting with Jamal Bryant, Target leadership.
00:17:13.380 According to the Guardian, June of 2025.
00:17:15.120 Brian, okay, that's too late, though.
00:17:16.800 That's way too late.
00:17:17.620 That's after the bomb has gone on.
00:17:19.480 Yeah, that's way too late.
00:17:20.840 More recently, as Profit, Brian stated he is open to meeting with Target's incoming CEO to negotiate a resolution.
00:17:26.900 Target did reach out as evidenced at the first meeting with Brian Cornell.
00:17:29.380 However, no further communication has taken place.
00:17:31.960 Brian remains hopeful and willing to meet with the new CEO.
00:17:34.560 I feel like, yeah, I don't know.
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00:18:27.180 Or video is totally up to you.
00:18:28.520 You'll at least get the notes.
00:18:29.780 Next, a lot of you guys were asking about we hadn't done a new series of signing the books, schedule, craziness, call it whatever you want to call it.
00:18:38.480 The team came, sat me down.
00:18:40.040 I signed hundreds of books.
00:18:41.800 And here's what we're doing today, as well as the new signed books with the new Valuetainment Red Hats that we got.
00:18:48.060 Signed here.
00:18:49.200 Anybody that orders the Valuetainment Red Hats, you're getting a free keychain.
00:18:53.580 We got two of them right there.
00:18:54.640 One is home team.
00:18:55.700 One is myself.
00:18:56.600 Go ahead and get them.
00:18:57.280 They're signed.
00:18:57.800 Limited edition for these.
00:18:58.860 These are not a lot of them.
00:19:00.300 You can get these signed hats that will be sent over to you.
00:19:02.460 The first five that order the signed copies of either your next five moves or choose your enemies wisely, the sales team will contact you.
00:19:12.320 You'll be able to tell us what name you want us to write it out to with a special note instead of just a signature.
00:19:17.300 The first five that place an order, it'll be made out to you.
00:19:21.020 Pick and choose.
00:19:21.760 Order the book.
00:19:22.880 We will personalize it to you.
00:19:24.220 But it's the first five orders.
00:19:25.160 So go to vtmerge.com, place your order.
00:19:27.960 And I think when you order the books, you get four, what do you call it?
00:19:31.380 Bookmarks.
00:19:31.940 Bookmarks.
00:19:32.440 For each book.
00:19:33.080 You get all those four bookmarks that will be sent to you as well.
00:19:35.620 And the hat, the free keychain, future looks bright, sick keychain.
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00:19:41.620 And if you want to watch the entire podcast, click here.