Beeple Explains His $69 Million Sale & The Future Of NFT’s
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Summary
In this episode of Value Team, host Ryan Henderson sits down with Mike Winkleman, CEO of NFTs, to talk about Bitcoin, Bitcoin, and more. Mike talks about how he got into Bitcoin, why he created NFT's, and why he thinks Bitcoin is going to dominate the future of the financial industry.
Transcript
00:00:03.920
It's something that I think is going to be around for quite a while.
00:00:08.720
Most people still have no clue what a Bitcoin is.
00:00:13.840
Do you see any regulatory or the government getting involved?
00:00:17.680
Like we saw with GameStop, those rules can change on a dime.
00:00:25.280
So I want you to think about one day you wake up and you start working with these things called NFTs.
1.00
00:00:39.440
And you go into auction with it on February, I want to say, what is it, 26th?
00:00:47.200
And a few days later on March 11th, this thing goes from $100, which was day one, February 26th.
00:00:56.880
On March 11th, with exactly one hour and 18 minutes left, it's at 14.75 million dollars.
00:01:04.400
You're sitting there with your family, your kids, everybody in the living room.
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Thank you so much for joining us on Value Team.
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But it's really exciting being able to talk to people about, you know, my work and this new technology.
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Because I really feel like this, well, this might be the first time you've heard of NFTs.
00:01:47.360
I definitely want to get into that so all of us can get more educated about.
00:01:50.480
But the day you were sitting at the house and you're watching this being done at $69 million.
00:01:55.200
Who in your family was in the room who said, Mike, you're wasting your time.
00:02:04.480
Or did everybody kind of know you're up to something big?
00:02:13.920
I was on Clubhouse with a couple thousand people on Clubhouse.
00:02:23.920
And they have been extremely, extremely supportive from day one of this project.
00:02:32.640
So while I just sold this thing for $69 million, this is literally a project.
00:02:38.000
That one single picture was a project that took me 13 years to do.
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It encapsulates the everyday's project, which is basically a picture that I do
00:02:48.240
every single day from start to finish that day and sort of posted online.
00:02:56.480
And it's something that I've been doing for the last over 13 years.
00:03:06.080
And then the last, the 5,000th day was January 7th, 2021.
00:03:13.920
Like, did the NFT community know that you're doing this every day that's coming up to 5,000?
00:03:18.000
Like, was it an event that people were behind it and they were looking forward to it?
00:03:21.360
Or was it a very exclusive small event that was following this?
00:03:26.800
because this is a lot of people's sort of first exposure to me.
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And it's like, oh, people, you know, this is who is this guy, blah, blah, blah.
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I've been doing this and was actually kind of one of the most popular designers in the world
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Like I had almost 2 million followers on Instagram before I even knew of NFTs.
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So I was a very, very popular designer before this.
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And that's kind of why like many, like literally millions of people knew about this every day's project.
00:03:52.960
It's just in the traditional art world and sort of the mainstream media, you know, I was not very well known, obviously.
00:04:00.560
But yeah, it's definitely like I've worked on the last couple of Super Bowls, the like, you know, halftime show graphics.
00:04:08.320
They use the everydays on the front of the clothes and stuff.
00:04:10.960
So, you know, this is a project that has, you know, many, many thousands, tens of thousands, millions of people like know about before this.
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It's just, you know, the NFT thing is, you know, a new way to actually sell this stuff.
00:04:25.440
And so that's where you sort of saw this, this, you know, big explosion of money and sort of, you know, interest now.
00:04:32.320
Well, let me ask you this, because you sold Crossroads November 2020, which was just a few months ago for $66,000.
00:04:39.440
The buyer bought it and resold it on February 26th for $6.6 million.
00:04:45.500
So when you sold Crossroads on November 2020 for $66,000, did you in that moment when you sold it for $66,000 think that everydays could potentially sell for $69 million?
00:05:05.580
So what happened is, so again, I've been sort of a popular designer in the like digital art community for, you know, years, a decade.
00:05:14.140
And so growing a following there and sort of, you know, getting better and better sort of like client jobs.
00:05:20.540
And so last fall, a bunch of people kept hitting me up about this NFT thing.
00:05:27.400
Like I only learned of this in like mid-October of last year.
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So this isn't something I've been, you know, deep into crypto and all this stuff for years.
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I was, you know, I've been around digital art for a very long time.
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But I have not been around this stuff for a long time.
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So people kept hitting me up, being like, oh, you got to look at these NFTs.
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You got to like look at these NFTs or something here.
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And so when I did, it was like, oh my God, like you're selling a video clip?
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Like I didn't even think you could do that, much less people are paying like, you know, really good money for this stuff.
00:06:01.940
And again, I looked at sort of the people who were in the space already.
00:06:04.920
And it's like, okay, well, to be honest, I'm actually more popular than all these guys.
00:06:09.440
Like I'm probably going to do pretty good here.
00:06:11.560
And so the first sale that I did, there was a couple of pieces.
00:06:17.180
And yeah, the Crossroads piece sold for $66,000, which again, you know, I was a well-paid designer.
00:06:24.000
Not like, you know, no designer is paid that well for one clip that they spend, you know, a day or two on that they get $66,000.
00:06:30.840
So that seemed like a massive amount of money that it's like, okay, this is sort of like, if I do a few of these a year and each one takes two days, like, there's my year, like, that's pretty good money, you know?
00:06:42.900
And so it seemed like a huge amount of money at the time.
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And then in December, I did another drop, another sort of collection.
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And that was just like, you know, broke all the like records.
00:07:01.980
3.5 million just destroyed all the records in the space at the time.
00:07:07.300
And so even at the beginning of this year, like fast forward to the beginning of this year, it was like, well, you know, there was a lot of predictions.
00:07:15.640
Like, you know, an NFT is going to sell for a million dollars this year.
00:07:18.900
Like, that was like a big prediction in the space.
00:07:20.800
Like, somebody is going to finally break a million dollars for one NFT.
00:07:23.860
And so even at the beginning of the Christie's auction, it was like, I don't know, like, I sold one piece for like 700,000.
00:07:30.960
Like, I think this could sell for over a million.
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So then from there, the expectations just kind of kept ramping up.
00:07:38.480
And like, you know, it just got completely crazy here.
00:07:42.860
And so that kind of that's how we are, like, you know, came to this moment and this massive, massive sale.
00:07:49.560
What's great about your story is the fact that you didn't expect this to be taking place.
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By the way, I saw a stat the other day, you're the third most expensive living artist alive today.
00:08:03.260
Like, I mean, that is insane when you think about it, right?
00:08:08.740
Are you back at it again when you're doing another 5,000?
00:08:11.580
Are you working on another thing like that today?
00:08:13.820
Yeah, I mean, the Everydays Project, again, it's like it's something that started well before, you know, I knew of NFTs.
00:08:20.960
This was, you know, it was just like, okay, I want to get better at art.
00:08:24.660
And so it started as a way to get better at drawing.
00:08:28.520
And so I did a drawing every day for the first, you know, year.
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I saw an illustrator out of the UK who did a sketch a day for like a year.
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And it was like, oh, that's a really cool idea.
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Because I still feel like there's a massive, massive amount of room for improvement.
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That's why I'll do it tomorrow, next day, blah, blah, blah.
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So to me, honestly, the Everydays Project is much bigger than this, like, NFT thing.
00:08:58.140
And it's something that right now I plan on doing for the rest of my life.
00:09:05.220
I feel like hopefully, God willing, I've got a few more years to keep doing this.
00:09:09.920
So I really feel like we're not even, you know, sort of close to being done.
00:09:20.660
Do you know the buyer that bought a, like, do you know Meta Coven?
00:09:27.980
Because again, like, so all this stuff with like, you know, auctions and buyers and collectors
00:09:34.540
That's not part of, that was not part of being a digital artist.
00:09:45.840
There was no, like, because without NFTs, there was no way to really prove you own these
00:09:54.020
I talked to him on, like, Zoom before, just because he had bid actually on some of my earlier
00:09:59.840
So I was like, okay, well, you know, he obviously seems like somebody who's interested in my work.
00:10:04.660
So I reached out to talk to him before the December sale.
00:10:07.320
And then he actually ended up buying a big chunk of that stuff in the December sale.
00:10:11.380
Yeah, apparently he bought 20 images for combined 2.2 million.
00:10:17.580
Currently, those works have a market cap of 163 million.
00:10:21.200
So from 2.2 million to 163 million in a span of three months.
00:10:28.280
That was actually a span of like a month and a half because he bought those.
00:10:31.420
And then it took him a little time to fractionalize.
00:10:33.660
So he didn't even do that until like, I think like January, like end of January.
00:10:38.560
And like him doing that too, like this whole thing is such a rabbit hole.
00:10:43.340
Like, so he bought those in December, bought all of them.
00:10:48.300
Like he kind of like created a bunch of like, like pseudo names.
00:10:52.220
And like throughout the, the course of the weekend when all the auctions, because it was
00:10:56.720
And after a few auctions, people were like, I think this is like, I think somebody's buying
00:11:03.160
all these, like the same person's buying them because he named them after like Greek
00:11:10.020
And then he put like Ethereum into these different wallets and created all these different accounts
00:11:15.620
And so by the end it was like, Oh, I bought all of them.
00:11:22.080
Is Meta Coven a well-known person in the business world or no?
00:11:29.040
I don't, I don't think he's that well-known at all.
00:11:32.280
And so, yeah, he, he kind of, we jumped on a zoom call like a week or two after the thing.
00:11:38.780
And he's like, you know, this is what I'm going to do.
00:11:40.300
I'm going to like fractionalize it and like do that.
00:11:43.840
Like I was, I was honestly against it at first.
00:11:46.780
It was definitely like, okay, I don't, I don't really like that, dude.
00:11:54.240
And I was kind of like, really like, I don't know, dude, this is like super weird.
00:12:03.760
And it's like, okay, well, I mean, it's, you bought it.
00:12:11.100
And like, it was sort of one of these things where it's like, I'm not just not going to explain
00:12:15.900
it to any of my fans because it's sort of like, they barely understand what NFTs are.
00:12:20.620
Now it's this crazy, weird fractionalization thing.
00:12:25.940
It's like, okay, dude, if you could do it and sell it to your other crypto friends, like
00:12:30.960
But like, I'm not going to try and sell this thing again.
00:12:34.960
And so he's like, no, no, I'll handle everything.
00:12:45.580
And, you know, and it sold out immediately, but it didn't go way up right at first.
00:12:50.960
And then slowly over when the Christie's thing's announced, then it popped up to like a hundred
00:12:57.780
So yeah, he's predicting that your, the everyday series is now worth a billion dollars.
00:13:05.220
Well, he's going to certainly try and make it worth a billion dollars.
00:13:07.860
And again, like that seems good for me too, if he can do that.
00:13:11.380
And that's one of the things that I think is super interesting about NFTs is it does allow
00:13:16.200
you to sort of fractionalize ownership like this really easily versus with a painting.
00:13:22.960
And there's masterworks and there are some other places where they have kind of fractionalized
00:13:26.660
ownerships of, okay, a Picasso or something like that, but they're very illiquid for one.
00:13:31.900
And there it's just much harder to set up and it's just not as sort of transparent versus
00:13:39.560
It's all very transparent and you can see he's actually sold none of those shares.
00:13:49.520
So I think this, this idea of fractionalized ownership over, you know, more expensive artwork,
00:13:54.920
that's something you're going to see and sort of a very new, interesting trend, you know,
00:14:01.980
Now, now Mike, has your lifestyle tremendously changed after getting the 69 million dollars
00:14:11.620
It's like, uh, we did, we did take, uh, this weekend, we took a private jet down to Miami,
00:14:19.580
Miami, um, which I'd never, I'd never even flown first class.
00:14:25.140
I never, I'm telling you, I thought it was just kind of like, okay, it's just like, uh,
00:14:32.500
And like, I was, you know, too much of an idiot to just put that in the contracts when people
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00:14:36.960
were flying me places that it's kind of like, nah, I don't need it.
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00:14:40.060
And it's sort of like, it honestly doesn't seem to appeal to me that much.
00:14:44.360
It's like, well, seats are a little bit bigger, whatever.
00:14:46.180
Um, but I will say the private jet was quite nice.
00:14:55.240
You know, good for, again, there are stories where people want to see people win your stories,
00:15:00.040
So now that we know your story, let's get into NFTs.
00:15:03.660
Look, most people still have no clue what a Bitcoin is, what blockchain is.
00:15:12.780
When you think about blockchain, then go to cryptocurrency, hypothetically, Bitcoin, Ethereum,
00:15:20.460
So give me a series of educating each, then leading into NFTs.
00:15:24.780
So the blockchain is basically just a series of sort of like, look at it like a big spreadsheet
00:15:34.340
So everybody kind of agrees, okay, this is what's happened.
00:15:36.940
These are all the transactions, and this is what's happened.
00:15:40.980
So what that allows you to do is have something like a Bitcoin, and you can't just copy and
00:15:45.940
paste it because everybody else will be like, no, no, no, no, no, no, you can't do that.
00:15:52.040
So with Bitcoin, again, you can't just, okay, I've got one, copy and paste.
00:16:05.880
It's another thing sort of written to the blockchain.
00:16:08.080
In this case, it's an Ethereum, which is a different blockchain than sort of Bitcoin.
00:16:13.280
There's multiple different blockchains, basically like multiple different sort of spreadsheets
00:16:20.320
And with Ethereum, you can also sort of program in rules for how these sort of like, you know,
00:16:27.620
So you can put little programs on top of the like tokens and stuff.
00:16:31.680
So the NFTs is really just a proof of ownership.
00:16:34.980
It's really just proving you own this token on the blockchain.
00:16:38.960
And the token itself can kind of point to different things.
00:16:41.920
It's kind of say, okay, well, this token points to a picture.
00:16:48.300
And just like with Bitcoin, you can prove you are the only person that owns it.
00:16:56.380
So it is a very hard, it is a very sort of, you know, different sort of paradigm for what
00:17:05.480
Whereas with, you know, digital and the internet and computers, we're used to, you copy a file,
00:17:11.600
you copy another, here's another copy, here's another copy.
00:17:23.000
You're just, it's just out there and you make another copy and da, da, da, da, da.
00:17:27.020
So it is a bit, you know, sort of hard to kind of wrap your head around.
00:17:31.940
And it is a different like sort of like paradigm shift.
00:17:34.360
But I think once people do, they'll realize that it's sort of, it's really similar to owning
00:17:43.060
That there's different analogies for owning something virtual and sort of applying value
00:17:51.740
So say like an MP3, you know, you can have a million copies of sort of, you know, Michael
00:17:58.340
Jackson's Thriller, but that's very different from the person who owns the master recording.
00:18:03.420
And so when you have a copy of it, nobody thinks, oh, okay, well, you own Thriller.
00:18:11.840
And so that's what it's kind of like with this.
00:18:16.080
But that doesn't mean you own it because you don't own the token that says you own
00:18:22.940
So here's a follow-up question that comes on that.
00:18:24.860
So if you own the master of Michael Jackson or Beatles or whoever they are, which Elvis
00:18:29.780
Presti, those are pretty valuable, you know, masters to own.
00:18:33.040
If I play that song on a video, YouTube would flag it and bring it back and say, you have
00:18:39.900
If I listen to the song, I have to pay $0.99 to iTunes or $1.29.
00:18:44.280
If I buy an album, I have to pay $30 or whatever it may be, right?
00:18:48.020
If you own Every Days and somebody else decides to use it, how do you monetize the master of
00:19:01.640
It's more just about sort of like owning like a painting.
00:19:04.400
It's more, in that case, it's sort of like there's a bunch of copies, but it's more like
00:19:09.000
owning a painting where it's sort of like, it's not as quite as easy to sort of directly
00:19:14.180
monetize like that because there is no way to stop people from like sharing this stuff.
00:19:18.820
So that's not a perfect analogy, but it's one analogy that kind of shows that a bunch
00:19:24.280
of people can own a copy, but then one person can own sort of the like, this is the person
00:19:33.520
So if it's a painting and I come to your house and I say, Mike, wow.
00:19:39.680
You say it's a, you know, it's whatever you tell me.
00:19:42.700
I'm like, oh my gosh, when it was painted in 1973 before, et cetera, he was going through
00:19:57.500
But with this one here, I don't really have a place to put it on there, right?
00:20:01.220
Because I can, I can put every days as a digital on a 120 inch screen TV in my house and say,
00:20:12.620
How, how was the element of art being appreciated for the work that you did during those 5,000
00:20:21.640
And that's another part of ownership that is very different here because in the past,
00:20:26.040
a big piece of ownership was restricting access.
00:20:30.380
So in that case, you just talked about, you had to go into that guy's house.
00:20:34.220
He had to let you into his house to see this painting.
00:20:42.160
So that's another thing that's a little bit hard for people to wrap their heads around.
00:20:46.620
Because in the past, it's sort of like, if you want to own something online, the way you
00:20:52.780
You said, no, you need to give me money first to see it.
00:20:57.260
It's really about kind of the opposite of that.
00:21:00.200
Actually, the more popular this painting, this picture gets, the more valuable will be.
00:21:06.680
Sort of an example of that is you go into the loo and you take a picture of the Mona
00:21:13.140
Well, you just made another copy of the Mona Lisa available.
00:21:15.620
Do you think that makes the Mona Lisa less valuable because you did that?
00:21:23.720
It's the most, it is the most valuable painting because it's the most famous painting.
00:21:29.140
Like, and that's what, if we can, if I can make this and Matt A. Colvin can make this
00:21:33.900
the most famous painting, then it will be the most valuable painting.
00:21:38.480
And so that's, that's kind of like what this is.
00:21:40.800
It's sort of like, it's not about sort of restricting people's access to it.
00:21:47.080
So in the case that you said, you know, this thing, how is, how are people going to see
00:21:53.320
Well, we're going to try and get it in museums all over the world.
00:21:55.900
And here's the advantage that something digital has is it doesn't have to take just one form.
00:22:01.420
Like when you have a painting, that guy, your buddy's painting, there's only one painting.
00:22:10.400
And with this, it can take a bunch of different forms and it can take a bunch of different
00:22:20.560
I'm going to make a big print for you in your house.
00:22:25.600
And then we're going to make a installation in this museum and we're going to, you know,
00:22:30.260
get a bunch of projectors and make a big, huge, massive, massive projection.
00:22:34.260
And that's going to be in this San Francisco museum.
00:22:36.980
Then we're going to have this, this museum in Hong Kong.
00:22:40.960
We're going to put a bunch of screens in this thing and we're going to make a copy of it
00:22:45.200
So this artwork, because it's digital, could actually exist in a bunch of different places
00:22:52.840
at the same time and be, have people experiencing it and viewing it.
00:22:58.980
So it's something where there are some advantages like that to, to, you know, digital artwork,
00:23:05.520
because again, at the end of the day, it has to come into the physical world.
00:23:10.080
So whether that's on a computer screen, whether that's on a phone, you are viewing
00:23:16.820
So I think that's, that's a huge advantage of, it can take a bunch of different forms,
00:23:21.160
but then the NFT is still sort of the kind of piece of it, the kind of, that is the actual
00:23:28.980
It is again, it's a, it's a bit hard, a different way of looking at it.
00:23:32.320
So then here's the question that follows up that, because it says, uh, the last 30 minutes
00:23:37.440
of the auction witnessed a rare phenomenon of last minute bids, which skyrocketed price
00:23:42.700
People's work also brought a new class of collector to the centuries old auction house of the 33
00:23:51.140
91% of them were new to Christie's people who know Christie's, they know Christie's, but
00:23:57.160
if 91% are new to Christie's, they don't know Christie's.
00:24:00.060
They just came to Christie's and most 90 majority were millennials and Gen X buyers made up of
00:24:08.220
Christie said in a press release, most bidders were in the Americas followed by Europe and
00:24:13.740
I don't know if you know the answer to this question, where most of your buyers or bidders
00:24:19.380
folks who are heavy or made their money in the Bitcoin world, I kind of want to be low
00:24:26.820
Meaning are these art collectors bidding or are they bid?
00:24:37.340
And so that honestly, and what, that was one of the first questions when I came to this
00:24:41.560
space, it's like, who the hell are these people bidding on this?
00:24:46.180
And because this is, seems very speculative and it's like, yeah, it is very speculative,
00:24:52.520
And if you made a lot of money in crypto, it's because you bet on crypto early when it was
00:24:58.420
And it was sort of like this Bitcoin, you know, if you made a bunch of money on Bitcoin,
00:25:01.940
it's not because you bought Bitcoin, you know, three months ago, it's because you bought
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Bitcoin 10 years ago, eight years ago when everybody was like, what is this stupid?
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This, this is, they're just paying for internet money.
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And you were like, nah, I'm going to bet on it.
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It was, it was not anywhere proven at that time.
00:25:24.600
And so now these people started speculating on this NFT stuff.
00:25:34.480
And that's where I think this digital art and NFTs is going to bring in a massive, massive
00:25:40.680
amount of new customers who never thought of themselves as collecting art.
00:25:44.480
They look at art and it's like, okay, I don't know what the hell that is.
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00:25:48.620
I don't give any shit about like what that is.
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I'm a young guy or whatever that made money on the internet.
00:26:04.500
And so that's where I think this is going to bring in a whole new group of collectors
00:26:08.560
to, to collecting art that, that, you know, never would have thought of it before.
00:26:14.240
And that's huge for Christie's to be quite honest.
00:26:20.460
There's those people, you know, I hate to say it, no offense to them, but like they're
00:26:24.840
Like they're so old that they're dying because it's old money, but there's a lot of new
00:26:29.980
There's a lot of new money that made money on the internet.
00:26:36.060
And that's where I think this digital art is going to speak to them in a much, much
00:26:40.060
more sort of visceral way than the old art did.
00:26:43.840
I mean, look, I think what is happening right now, the question then becomes, can they convert?
00:26:48.200
And sometimes the converting takes a little longer, right?
00:26:50.960
For others to say, you know what, this is the way to go.
00:26:57.900
I know you don't want to post your picture, mom, on Facebook, but everyone's doing it.
00:27:00.840
I know you don't want to post your, you know, video with what we just did.
00:27:04.840
So I think that has anybody weird contacted you since the sale, meaning an Elon Musk or
00:27:10.600
Has anybody or the White House, have you been in contact with anybody of extreme power that's
00:27:15.960
like, wait a minute, what the hell just happened?
00:27:17.920
Can you fill us in on what you can say about NFTs?
00:27:21.080
I mean, I've talked to a lot of people before that.
00:27:26.340
You know, I've talked to a bunch of people who are kind of like, what is going on here?
00:27:31.280
Obviously, I've been on, you know, a ton of shows and stuff.
00:27:34.720
But yeah, I think it's honestly, it's still so early in this that people aren't really
00:27:39.720
understanding where this is going or where it could go.
00:27:42.100
So and I think it's very, I think at these prices too, to be quite honest, it's almost
00:27:48.480
very easy to dismiss as like crazy, crazy hype that it's just like, well, what is this?
00:27:55.580
Um, and I think it is very, um, you know, that there is some level of like, kind of like
00:28:02.860
a bubble here that I think it's, it's, there is, you know, some level of like, and we're
00:28:08.140
getting a bit jacked up here, but I think it's what I think, what I would say to that
00:28:13.240
is there was a big bubble with the internet and, uh, you know, there was a lot of people
00:28:18.440
who are super jacked up about the internet and they're paying crazy, crazy amounts of money
00:28:22.420
and then the bubble burst, but the bubble did not kill the internet.
00:28:26.120
People kept using the internet because the internet was useful.
00:28:29.100
And that is what I believe will happen with NFTs.
00:28:31.220
I think it's going to be, you're going to see a bunch of people rush in and okay, NFT
00:28:39.820
Um, but the technology is, is simple enough in a way and strong enough in a way that I think
00:28:44.940
it's going to outlast that and all the crap's going to get wiped out.
00:28:48.240
And, and you know, the Amazons, the Googles, the blah, blah, blah, they'll still be around
0.99
00:28:57.440
I think it's one of these things where people need to be careful.
00:29:00.120
It is still very speculative, but it's, it's something that I think is going to be around
00:29:05.160
for, for quite a while because it has a lot of use cases and we barely, barely scratched
00:29:10.920
And I think the blockchain people know that, but it will take a bit longer.
00:29:15.200
Like to your original point, it will take a bit longer for everybody else to kind of
00:29:20.340
So, so, you know, the younger generation historically have always been the biggest baptizers.
00:29:24.500
They baptize, they eventually baptize the older generation.
00:29:28.040
It takes longer to baptize the older generation than it does to baptize the younger generation
00:29:34.000
because eventually they're like, listen, mom, whether you understand this stuff or not,
00:29:39.700
You know, you want to kind of like understand that this works or, and I said, did you know my
00:29:43.600
son, did you know that guy's, did you know her son, did you know Johnny's mom's, you
00:29:47.020
know, did you know, so those stories eventually go and people start kind of, uh, um, looking
00:29:51.460
at it and say, maybe this may be the direction to go.
00:29:53.220
So a few different things, uh, Jack Dorsey puts out his tweet, right?
00:29:57.120
I don't know what he sold it for, but he sold it for two and a half, okay.
00:30:05.440
Elon Musk is talking about, he's going to make a song.
00:30:07.820
Yeah, he made it, yeah, he made a song and I offered him 69 million for it.
00:30:13.560
I offered him 60 million dollars for his song and he kind of, and then he decided he wasn't
00:30:19.900
So, so what do you, what do you think, what do you think this thing can go with NFTs?
00:30:24.320
Like, can, can, can you own a digital dream house in an NFT that's worth 10 million bucks?
00:30:31.140
Can you own a digital home in Mars where it's like, look at this, you know, waterfront property
00:30:38.260
on Mars and you kind of make it as an imaginative place.
00:30:45.520
It's more like, will everybody want to do those things?
00:30:48.760
It's you could, again, you could attach it to anything.
00:30:51.020
It's sort of like, you need to get everybody to actually want to pay that much.
00:30:55.440
If you're saying it's 10 million dollars, then you've got to convince people that it's
00:31:02.420
It's got to be in some game or something that's very, very popular that everybody's like, everybody
00:31:09.100
So obviously Twitter, probably not going anywhere.
00:31:14.240
So the founder of Twitter, his first tweet, it's kind of like, well, that kind of seems
00:31:20.740
But you could very strongly argue that that's a pretty sort of like big piece of internet
00:31:26.280
Honestly, 2.5 million dollars for that does not, I'm not sure it actually sold for that.
00:31:30.840
I think that's the current bid, I believe that will go much higher than that, because
00:31:36.320
that is a massive, massive part of internet history.
00:31:39.340
And so I think it's one of these things where there's a lot of things that we connect value
00:31:49.780
You have a Mickey Mantle, you know, 18 or whatever.
00:32:00.840
Well, you're going to pay this much for a little piece of cardboard?
00:32:06.460
And so just like with Jack Dorsey, the first tweet, it's like, what does that symbolize?
00:32:11.140
When you pay, you know, a million dollars for a baseball card, are you like, well, I really
00:32:23.100
It's a piece of stretched cloth with some paint on it.
00:32:28.820
And that doesn't have any like value or meaning.
00:32:34.600
It's like there's a bunch of symbolic meaning that we attach to things that, you know, we're
00:32:39.600
going to start attaching to digital goods because, again, those digital goods have just
00:32:44.400
as much cultural relevance, just as much historical value as anything that's, you know, a physical
00:32:50.760
So, so for example, the other question would be, you know, how LeBron James's dunk sold
00:32:59.340
If the person who bought that, that doesn't mean ESPN or the Lakers can never show the
00:33:04.920
And if they do, if that becomes like the most famous dunk ever, where it's like, that's
00:33:09.520
Michael Jordan, fricking boom, or that's one of these, just the most iconic dunks, then
00:33:16.560
If in, you know, three years from now, five years from now, 10 years from now, he's done
00:33:21.680
a million sweeter dunks and nobody gives a crap about that dunk, then it will not hold
00:33:27.660
It's how much people will care about this stuff in the future.
00:33:31.100
Do you think people will still care about Twitter in the future?
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00:33:33.760
Then that first tweet might be worth a lot, but if nobody's going to give a fuck about
0.60
00:33:38.220
Twitter in the future, then yeah, it's not worth anything.
00:33:41.360
So it is, it's about how much, how relevant these things are in the future.
00:33:51.180
Would you buy NFTs or have you bought any NFTs yourself or no?
00:33:57.940
I just, honestly, I've been so like focused on like getting, you know, sort of getting my
00:34:06.120
Honestly, I haven't done very much of any investing with the money that I've gotten from
00:34:09.900
any of this stuff, just because I've been so, you know, heads down on making the next
00:34:16.180
CryptoPunks, CryptoPunks are actually the first NFTs.
00:34:19.120
Those I believe are going to be worth a huge amount moving forward because they were actually
00:34:23.960
And there are these weird little sort of pictures of these.
00:34:29.780
Those I believe will absolutely hold value and will be like massive, massive in the future.
00:34:35.180
But, and this is a big but, a lot of the NFTs right now will not be worth anything in the
00:34:44.140
It is something that is, it is not for like, okay, you know, this is for people who, you
00:34:51.960
know, are willing to take a bit more risk because it is definitely, definitely more risky
00:34:57.260
than like, you know, buying a share of Amazon or Microsoft or whatever.
00:35:02.960
So, so do you, the, the, the risk to this, before we wrap up the downside to this downside
00:35:08.620
to this, do you see any regulatory or the government getting involved to hurt or slow
00:35:14.740
down or challenge what NFTs, because the moment you see that kind of money coming in, you can
00:35:18.640
all of a sudden see the, all the, you know, the, you know, people coming and say, Hey, you
00:35:24.640
Is that a possibility that could slow it down or that wouldn't have any effect on it regardless?
00:35:29.060
No, I mean, a government come in and make rules around anything.
00:35:31.860
There's, there's absolutely nothing that will stop that.
00:35:34.480
I, in this case, I don't think they will just because it's actually quite sort of cut and
00:35:41.140
It is so simple that it's just sort of like, okay, you're buying the like token and that's
00:35:45.740
So I don't know that they, I personally don't think they will, or if they did, I don't know
00:35:55.340
Again, you don't know what the government, they could always come in and screw things up.
00:36:00.340
They're, they've, they'll find a way, they'll find a way to screw things up.
00:36:03.880
So they could, it personally, I would not be super, I'm not super concerned about that.
00:36:11.380
Somebody's watching the saying, Mike, you've inspired me, man.
00:36:13.680
I'm going to go either buy or I'm going to go be a designer.
00:36:20.500
What would you tell the creative kind of like you, if you could give any feedback to the
00:36:24.200
creative, who's like you, if I would have done three of those per year, 66,000, I'm
00:36:28.720
fine with the lifestyle that I have, that would have been great.
00:36:32.320
What do you, what feedback you got for the creatives and what feedback do you have for
00:36:35.340
those that are saying, I'm not fully comfortable with blockchain.
00:36:40.100
I wouldn't mind investing in a little bit of the blockchain NFTs that's coming out.
00:36:44.620
Give me feedback to both the creative and the investor.
00:36:47.400
And to the creative, I would say start in every day.
00:36:49.720
And I, and there have been literally, you know, sort of tens of thousands of people who
00:36:53.940
have started every day because of like me seeing me do this.
00:36:57.140
And some of those people have hundreds of thousands of followers in their own right.
00:37:00.860
So this is very much like a movement in, you know, I've been bugging people to start every
00:37:05.140
days for many, many years and a ton of them have.
00:37:08.340
And it's something that is, you know, sort of a known sort of movement in digital art
00:37:15.420
And again, I would not sort of focus on the money piece of it, the money aspect of it,
00:37:19.860
focus on getting better and the money will come or it might not come, but like, you can't
00:37:28.800
What you can control is how much you sit your ass down and you like practice and work your
0.89
00:37:35.500
And it's about just putting in the work every single day.
00:37:40.560
Like there's no fancy, oh, here's, you know, some advice that you never heard that somehow
00:37:50.460
Like there's no other, you know, way around it.
00:37:54.240
To the investor, I would say if you want to get into NFTs, I would look at those crypto
00:38:00.160
I would also look at there's this guy named Beeple who makes awesome artwork.
00:38:04.500
No, I would say I think it's one of those things where you really need to sort of do
00:38:08.040
your due diligence, look at this stuff, try and understand the space more and sort of have
00:38:14.900
I think it's going to get more and more, you know, an alternate asset class that I think
00:38:20.060
people are, it's going to get more and more viable.
00:38:22.140
I think we've sort of, you know, kind of gotten used to the idea that, you know, equities have
00:38:28.240
been the predominant asset class for the last hundred years.
00:38:30.560
You grow up, you get a little extra money and you choose a corporation and you give that
00:38:39.720
And so this idea that they're just going to automatically grow up, get a couple extra
00:38:43.240
bucks and, you know, give it to Amazon, give it to Google, give it to blah, blah, blah.
00:38:47.240
I don't know that I see that just automatically continuing forever.
00:38:51.800
And so if there's alternate asset classes like NFTs, like Bitcoin, something like that,
00:38:57.100
I could see those being a real sort of, you know, alternative that people would like to
00:39:01.560
sort of like, well, I'd rather buy a Beeple than I would, you know, put it into Berkshire
00:39:06.340
So I think it's one of these things that, you know, could be really important growing
00:39:11.280
up because the other part of it is you have much more of a sense of digital ownership of
00:39:15.320
these and you can sort of, you know, do them and trade them and sort of own them with much
00:39:23.100
Again, you go back to stocks, you have to trade it in a certain time, a certain way,
00:39:28.400
certain places, you know, there's a lot of rules around it.
00:39:31.720
And those rules, like we saw with GameStop, those rules can change on a dime.
00:39:44.700
And so if you have something like this that has less rules and it's, you have more of a
00:39:48.580
sense of ownership, which again, people are yearning for that online.
00:39:52.160
You go to, you know, you give your data to Facebook and Google, you stop owning it.
00:39:58.760
And so this is another thing where you have much more of a sense of ownership, which is
00:40:04.900
We're used to giving people stuff and then they own it and they do whatever the hell they
00:40:10.260
And so this is where I think it could be, you know, a massive, massive alternate asset
00:40:20.660
What a great way of putting it and explaining it.
00:40:26.560
If I'm in 11th grade with you or 16 years old, who was Mike?
00:40:33.080
I was just kind of, it's funny because I actually just went to a high school literally like a
00:40:37.600
couple hours ago to get a vaccine for a shot or whatever.
00:40:46.160
And I was kind of like, it occurred to me how I was like, high school is just like four
00:40:52.480
And it didn't really, were you to 4.0 GPA, 4.5 GPA?
00:41:01.020
And I think this was partially because people just didn't know me that good.
00:41:04.060
And there was just like, okay, there's a few awards left over.
00:41:16.080
Again, I think it was partially, you're just like, okay, there's six awards left.
0.98
00:41:19.440
Or, okay, give Mike the most lazy, it gets a crap.
0.92
00:41:26.480
I think maybe people saw I was a bit smarter, that my grades were not reflecting, that I
00:41:38.080
And I'm looking forward to seeing bigger things happen with you.
00:41:42.640
Just a guy that all of a sudden went from being an artist to selling something for $69 million.
00:42:00.800
$69 million because he stuck to it 5,000 days from May 1st, 2007 to January 7th, 2021.
00:42:07.840
And it sells at Christie's auction for $69 million.
00:42:17.120
They're going to be more excited about something else, investing into an art.
00:42:23.320
And we had a debate this last week on the podcast.
00:42:25.620
If NFTs are a fad, if you haven't heard that yet, click over to watch that.