Valuetainment - May 14, 2026


＂Biggest Fraudster In History＂ - Changpeng Zhao EXPOSES SBF & The FTX Collapse


Episode Stats


Length

13 minutes

Words per minute

190.31882

Word count

2,553

Sentence count

169


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode of the podcast, I sit down with Alex Blumberg, CEO and Founder of Binance, to talk about how he went from zero to $1B in 12 months, how he got started in crypto, and how he and Sam Ackman became friends.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
00:00:00.040 Okay, when I sell my business, I want the best tax and investment advice.
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00:00:30.000 If you were 20 years, if the 35-year-old CZ who was working crazy hours those 12, you know, the 12 months that you guys went zero to a billion in profits, if he's the 35-year-old today in today's market, what industry are you entering?
00:00:46.860 What are you doing?
00:00:47.620 How are you, you know, what software are you using?
00:00:49.980 What technology are you using?
00:00:51.060 What would you get into today?
00:00:52.740 Well, I think for me, I was still getting into the same industry.
00:00:55.760 I think you got to, you can't just change every hot industry.
00:00:58.700 you have to do what you do best
00:01:00.800 you have to do what you're good at
00:01:02.420 what interests you and what's valuable for others
00:01:04.840 you've got to find the intersection of those three things
00:01:06.680 and those three things don't change overnight
00:01:08.940 for a young person
00:01:10.520 you can learn about blockchain or you can learn about AI
00:01:12.500 both are good
00:01:13.660 so I wouldn't change what I would do
00:01:16.740 but I would change the way I would
00:01:18.560 do it a little bit
00:01:19.480 I would be much more focused
00:01:21.400 much less distractions
00:01:22.900 just with hindsight
00:01:25.000 you would know
00:01:25.840 like, okay, I can be so much more focused
00:01:28.560 instead of getting distracted
00:01:30.740 in a lot of different places, et cetera.
00:01:32.640 Got it.
00:01:33.220 So internet was first, blockchain was second,
00:01:36.120 AI is third.
00:01:36.820 What do you think is going to be fourth?
00:01:37.980 I don't know.
00:01:38.640 That's very hard to predict.
00:01:40.380 Like, for example, before ChatGPT came out,
00:01:42.480 like AlphaZero, AlphaGo was there, right?
00:01:46.000 That wasn't a big industry.
00:01:49.040 But then ChatGPT came,
00:01:50.500 that was suddenly, okay,
00:01:51.480 all this AI thing's happening.
00:01:53.300 But before that, you know, Sam may know, but I didn't know.
00:01:57.280 So I have to wait for it to happen to see what's next.
00:02:00.800 And what's next is probably going to be another, I don't know, another 10 years away.
00:02:04.620 You think the next is going to be another 10 years away?
00:02:06.840 No, I don't know for sure.
00:02:08.300 I'm just saying that roughly, right?
00:02:09.780 I don't know for sure.
00:02:10.560 Because at any point we could wake up and something new is, you know, we're like, wait a minute.
00:02:13.220 What is the quantum, you know, computing?
00:02:18.220 And, you know, it's going to take this long to build it.
00:02:20.460 And all of a sudden, what if they do it faster?
00:02:21.980 or what could that turn into?
00:02:23.320 So who knows what's going to be taking place?
00:02:24.480 Yeah, it could happen tomorrow.
00:02:25.680 Yeah, true, it can happen.
00:02:27.020 So it's a safer answer to say it could happen tomorrow.
00:02:29.340 But so let's go back to Binance.
00:02:31.920 We're talking about SPF when the conversation came up,
00:02:36.760 Sam Ackman-Fried with FTX.
00:02:38.640 So at one point, you guys did have a relationship together, right?
00:02:42.200 The two of you.
00:02:43.080 Well, we had an investment into FTX.
00:02:46.660 Was there ever a relationship or no?
00:02:48.900 No, I wouldn't.
00:02:50.320 Well, we met each other.
00:02:52.660 We had each other's contact.
00:02:54.400 But I wouldn't call it a very close relationship.
00:02:56.740 I probably talked to him less than 10 times in total.
00:02:59.220 Did you guys ever break bread, just the two of you?
00:03:01.480 We had one meal together.
00:03:04.820 Just the two of you?
00:03:05.760 Just the two of you.
00:03:06.360 What was that like?
00:03:07.720 This was when he was seeking investment from Binance.
00:03:12.800 And we just chatted.
00:03:14.960 No, we just tried to get to know each other a little bit better, et cetera.
00:03:17.160 We had one meal together, just the two of us.
00:03:19.620 When you walked away, what was the feeling you got from him?
00:03:22.700 The feeling I got is he was very high EQ.
00:03:25.340 High EQ?
00:03:26.180 Yeah, he's very...
00:03:26.760 Really?
00:03:27.240 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:03:27.680 So he knows what to say to...
00:03:30.540 This is the impression I got for him.
00:03:34.260 He knows what to say, when to say it, in front of whom, in what circumstances, he will say the right stuff.
00:03:40.060 He was very respectful to me.
00:03:42.100 He was saying all the right stuff, like, we're going to collaborate, we're going to build this, we're going to help to grow the crypto industry, we're going to solve...
00:03:48.040 We're going to help the regulatory evolution.
00:03:51.920 He was saying all the right stuff.
00:03:53.800 Did you walk away saying, I like this guy.
00:03:56.760 I trust this guy.
00:03:57.740 Sounds like a good player.
00:04:00.440 Actually, after that meal, we actually declined to invest.
00:04:06.280 I think that was in summer 2019.
00:04:08.660 Where was it at?
00:04:09.440 Were you guys in the States?
00:04:11.620 Actually, it was somewhere in Asia, I think.
00:04:14.920 So I think Singapore somewhere.
00:04:17.560 But he wanted the investment from us.
00:04:21.020 We actually turned it down.
00:04:22.640 And then he came back in November to our CFO at the time, Uwei.
00:04:27.920 And he made a much improved offer.
00:04:30.860 And then we invested.
00:04:33.660 Why did you take the meeting the first time he came?
00:04:35.760 Was he already a player?
00:04:36.940 Was he somebody that was a known guy?
00:04:39.580 At that time, he was one of the larger traders.
00:04:42.160 He was a VIP trader.
00:04:43.360 Alameda was a VIP trader on Binance.
00:04:45.060 So the VIP manager is like, well, give him a meeting, right?
00:04:48.380 I usually don't meet with VIPs, but he has a specific proposal.
00:04:51.680 He wants to build a future exchange.
00:04:53.360 He wants to build FTX.
00:04:54.560 He wants us to invest.
00:04:55.480 And this is where you guys put $2 billion into it?
00:04:58.620 No, no, no, no.
00:04:59.920 We're putting much less money into it.
00:05:01.520 I think we, if I'm not mistaking, we probably put a couple million dollars into it.
00:05:09.280 This is way early on.
00:05:10.940 This is early on.
00:05:11.620 I think we got close to $2 billion out of the deal when we exited at the time.
00:05:17.960 And then we held them in FTT tokens.
00:05:20.040 Part of it was in FTT tokens, which went to zero now.
00:05:23.460 Oh, and that's why they're suing Binance, right?
00:05:26.340 I think $1.76 billion or whatever the number is, right?
00:05:29.660 There is no ongoing litigation.
00:05:31.720 Between them, though, you're not involved in that litigation.
00:05:34.380 I'm not too sure.
00:05:35.100 I don't think I'm...
00:05:36.180 Okay, but you haven't gone to court, so...
00:05:37.740 My lawyer's handling it.
00:05:39.280 But my lawyers did advise me not to talk about ongoing litigations.
00:05:43.820 If I remember correctly, your tweet or the decision was one of the reasons a lot of people said that caused them to go out.
00:05:53.760 Because you came out and you said, we're out.
00:05:55.920 We're not doing anything.
00:05:57.580 You were speaking to Sorkin, if I'm not mistaken.
00:06:01.980 You got on Aaron Sorkin.
00:06:04.620 You guys are on MSNBC or CNBC.
00:06:06.900 And then you said, no, I don't feel good about it.
00:06:09.200 You made some comments.
00:06:10.060 We're out.
00:06:10.500 And then from there, everybody said,
00:06:11.560 if CZ doesn't feel good about it,
00:06:13.620 there may be something going on here.
00:06:14.820 The crypto billionaire who helped expose SPFs
00:06:16.640 and Solvecin calls him
00:06:17.580 one of the greatest fraudsters in history
00:06:19.800 and accuses media and thought leaders
00:06:21.220 of being manipulated.
00:06:23.220 That's a pretty strong words right there.
00:06:24.920 Who said that, by the way?
00:06:26.000 Rob, is that...
00:06:26.900 Don't think those were my exact words.
00:06:29.420 Can you go a little bit lower in Fortune?
00:06:35.080 SPF is one of the greatest fraudsters in history.
00:06:36.960 He is a master manipulator
00:06:38.060 when it comes down to media
00:06:39.020 key opinion leaders he wrote in a tweet SPF perpetuated a narrative painting me and other
00:06:46.700 people as bad guys it was critical in maintaining the fantasy that he was a hero you click on that
00:06:51.420 tuesday with link to see if uh i don't think i would call him that i don't think i said all of
00:07:02.540 those words good for you that you know whether you said that or not it's just it's just not
00:07:09.740 not i would fortune write something like that go right there uh keep going low rob
00:07:15.660 it's critical maintaining this is one of the greatest fraudsters in history oh there it is
00:07:21.120 that's the tweet he's a master manipulator when it comes down to media and key opinion leaders
00:07:25.020 is that your twitter account or no that looks okay this is an actual twitter page right okay
00:07:30.780 Okay, that doesn't look like it.
00:07:33.620 So you don't remember it.
00:07:35.200 You were pissed off.
00:07:37.400 I normally would not use that kind of language.
00:07:39.800 That was pretty strong.
00:07:41.820 That was strong.
00:07:42.500 What got you to the point of saying something like that about him?
00:07:46.420 Okay, I think, can you scroll back on top of that tweet a little bit more?
00:07:50.860 Because it would be good to get some context here.
00:07:53.800 I think this is probably a tweet I was responding to accusations of...
00:07:57.780 yeah so there's a list of wrong narratives i've seen recently so a list of wrong nerves i've seen
00:08:02.800 recently one cz wants to be the savior of crypto crypto doesn't need saving crypto is fine so ftx
00:08:08.180 was killed by xyz no ftx killed themselves because they stole billions of dollars of user funds
00:08:14.060 period spf has good intentions but just made mistakes lying is never good intentions go a
00:08:19.060 little bit lower rob cz's tweet destroyed ftx no healthy business can be destroyed by tweet
00:08:24.020 however there was a tweet that may have uh caroline's tweet 60 minutes after mine on
00:08:29.180 november 6 shows data that it was real cause for people to dump ftx caroline said what if you're
00:08:33.960 looking to minimize the market impact on ftp sales alameda will happily buy it all from you
00:08:38.460 at 22 go a little bit lower rob she gave her floor price away spf perpetuated a uh a narrative
00:08:47.120 painting me as other people it was critical maintaining the fantasy that he was a hero
00:08:50.380 SPF is one of the greatest fraudsters.
00:08:51.920 Okay, so that's where you said that.
00:08:53.260 Okay, okay, okay.
00:08:54.240 All right.
00:08:54.760 Okay, yeah.
00:08:55.520 So, yeah.
00:08:56.820 I guess that was a pretty strong language.
00:08:59.320 I normally would not say that.
00:09:01.780 You don't remember this?
00:09:03.600 Well, I don't remember the whole thread, right?
00:09:05.100 Yeah.
00:09:05.260 So, like, you know, there's a lot of details in that thread.
00:09:09.720 It's not like one single message.
00:09:12.040 And this is 2022.
00:09:13.660 So, it's not like ChatGBT wrote that tweet.
00:09:15.460 That's you writing that tweet.
00:09:16.780 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:09:17.500 Yeah, yeah.
00:09:17.860 Yeah, so this account is so printed by me.
00:09:20.900 So, yeah.
00:09:22.500 Okay, so why such aggressive language towards him?
00:09:27.980 I think at the time, I guess a lot of people were saying that, you know, my tweet somehow killed FTN, right?
00:09:32.960 Which I said, look, that's not true.
00:09:35.960 As I said here, like a tweet.
00:09:37.380 I actually really like the answer.
00:09:38.660 A tweet cannot destroy great business.
00:09:40.340 Yeah, yeah.
00:09:40.820 So, yeah.
00:09:42.000 So, I think there was a sequence of events here, right?
00:09:45.040 so there was a coin desk uh reporting and then there was that was on like no early november
00:09:50.700 november 3rd or something and then um our finance people asked me like cz like we still have hold
00:09:56.640 the ftd tokens should we sell so i write a tweet i said yes we should sell and then our finance team
00:10:02.400 moved the tokens uh on the blockchain and people saw it and people were asking questions and then
00:10:07.360 our finance team says maybe you want to put a tweet out there saying like look um you want to
00:10:10.980 clarify that we're selling so um yeah so this is a tweet that you know i wrote we said we
00:10:15.800 um and uh i said we're gonna sell our ftp tokens and this is the place where we got them and people
00:10:23.000 can track it on the blockchain i said we're gonna sell them over a million months right we're gonna
00:10:26.520 sell them slowly not to uh have market impact so um and many people blame me for causing the ftp
00:10:34.420 you don't think you had any influence over it um i think your voice carries a lot of weight
00:10:40.340 especially at that time.
00:10:41.500 Yeah, but this also,
00:10:42.800 I think my voice carries weight,
00:10:45.580 but also there's a balance
00:10:47.080 between being transparent
00:10:47.960 and just do this quietly,
00:10:49.320 like we just sell our FTT tokens quietly
00:10:51.160 without letting the market know.
00:10:53.400 Well, I actually really,
00:10:54.340 I like the approach you took.
00:10:56.540 Here's what we're doing.
00:10:57.560 It's being honest with the market.
00:10:58.900 Your customers are seeing what you're doing,
00:11:00.780 but that doesn't mean
00:11:01.700 it doesn't have a negative impact on FTX.
00:11:04.300 It probably does have some market impact,
00:11:06.760 but again, I think many people
00:11:08.900 have tried to sell BNB tokens
00:11:10.280 which is our token well which is the token that you know uh we're building um but again if anyone
00:11:16.540 selling can kill can kill can kill your business you don't have a business really right no that's
00:11:21.120 a good point so now let me ask you so this makes me think about something else so at that time
00:11:25.740 reports came out one report said that he gave 40 million to the democratic party then another
00:11:31.340 report said he gave 70 million then a federal prosecutor came out and said it was 100 million
00:11:36.120 dollars that he gave up to a bunch of different people by the way on both sides of the house so
00:11:39.640 It wasn't like it was only one side.
00:11:42.300 Were you, yeah, right, the federal prosecutors led you
00:11:44.540 that Sam Engman-Fried used over $100 million
00:11:46.120 and stolen FTX customers to make political donations
00:11:48.520 ahead of 2020 to midterm elections.
00:11:51.000 Were you doing anything like this at the time yourself?
00:11:54.320 No, we couldn't donate.
00:11:56.860 We're like, no, I'm not a U.S. citizen.
00:12:00.340 So political donations are not possible for me.
00:12:03.780 Right.
00:12:03.860 Political donations.
00:12:05.120 So did anybody from the Biden administration
00:12:07.860 come up to you and say,
00:12:09.080 hey, if you give this much money,
00:12:11.220 we'll let this go?
00:12:12.180 Did you get anybody knocking on your door
00:12:14.440 saying, can you support our political campaign
00:12:17.100 by sending some Bitcoin,
00:12:18.280 by sending some this?
00:12:19.600 Not that I know.
00:12:21.460 I don't think that,
00:12:22.560 I don't know any of that.
00:12:24.560 You don't know any of that.
00:12:25.740 That didn't happen with me.
00:12:26.980 Didn't happen with you?
00:12:27.900 No.
00:12:28.220 So you don't remember a phone call?
00:12:29.620 You don't remember an email or a text
00:12:31.140 or anybody coming to you?
00:12:32.280 No, no, no.
00:12:32.740 No one asked us for donations.
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