Valuetainment - May 14, 2026


＂Biggest Fraudster In History＂ - Changpeng Zhao EXPOSES SBF & The FTX Collapse

Hosted by
Patrick Bet-David
Mentioned
Aaron Sorkin Sam Bankman Freed Tuscaneiro Binance Bitcoin Biden
＂Three Times BIGGER Than Manhattan＂ - MEGA AI Data Center Sparks Tech War With Americans ＂China Is The ENEMY＂ - Ken Paxton DEFENDS Texas' AI Data Center EXPLOSION

Episode Stats


Length

13 minutes

Words per minute

190.32

Word count

2,553

Sentence count

211


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode of the podcast, I sit down with Alex Blumberg, CEO and Founder of Binance, to talk about how he went from zero to $1B in 12 months, how he got started in crypto, and how he and Sam Ackman became friends.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00 Okay, when I sell my business, I want the best tax and investment advice.
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00:00:30 If you were 20 years, if the 35-year-old CZ who was working crazy hours those 12, you know, the 12 months that you guys went zero to a billion in profits, if he's the 35-year-old today in today's market, what industry are you entering?
00:00:46 What are you doing?
00:00:47 How are you, you know, what software are you using?
00:00:49 What technology are you using?
00:00:51 What would you get into today?
00:00:52 Well, I think for me, I was still getting into the same industry.
00:00:55 I think you got to, you can't just change every hot industry.
00:00:58 you have to do what you do best
00:01:00 you have to do what you're good at
00:01:02 what interests you and what's valuable for others
00:01:04 you've got to find the intersection of those three things
00:01:06 and those three things don't change overnight
00:01:08 for a young person
00:01:10 you can learn about blockchain or you can learn about AI
00:01:12 both are good
00:01:13 so I wouldn't change what I would do
00:01:16 but I would change the way I would
00:01:18 do it a little bit
00:01:19 I would be much more focused
00:01:21 much less distractions
00:01:22 just with hindsight
00:01:25 you would know
00:01:25 like, okay, I can be so much more focused
00:01:28 instead of getting distracted
00:01:30 in a lot of different places, et cetera.
00:01:32 Got it.
00:01:33 So internet was first, blockchain was second,
00:01:36 AI is third.
00:01:36 What do you think is going to be fourth?
00:01:37 I don't know.
00:01:38 That's very hard to predict.
00:01:40 Like, for example, before ChatGPT came out,
00:01:42 like AlphaZero, AlphaGo was there, right?
00:01:46 That wasn't a big industry.
00:01:49 But then ChatGPT came,
00:01:50 that was suddenly, okay,
00:01:51 all this AI thing's happening.
00:01:53 But before that, you know, Sam may know, but I didn't know.
00:01:57 So I have to wait for it to happen to see what's next.
00:02:00 And what's next is probably going to be another, I don't know, another 10 years away.
00:02:04 You think the next is going to be another 10 years away?
00:02:06 No, I don't know for sure.
00:02:08 I'm just saying that roughly, right?
00:02:09 I don't know for sure.
00:02:10 Because at any point we could wake up and something new is, you know, we're like, wait a minute.
00:02:13 What is the quantum, you know, computing?
00:02:18 And, you know, it's going to take this long to build it.
00:02:20 And all of a sudden, what if they do it faster?
00:02:21 or what could that turn into?
00:02:23 So who knows what's going to be taking place?
00:02:24 Yeah, it could happen tomorrow.
00:02:25 Yeah, true, it can happen.
00:02:27 So it's a safer answer to say it could happen tomorrow.
00:02:29 But so let's go back to Binance.
00:02:31 We're talking about SPF when the conversation came up,
00:02:36 Sam Ackman-Fried with FTX.
00:02:38 So at one point, you guys did have a relationship together, right?
00:02:42 The two of you.
00:02:43 Well, we had an investment into FTX.
00:02:46 Was there ever a relationship or no?
00:02:48 No, I wouldn't.
00:02:50 Well, we met each other.
00:02:52 We had each other's contact.
00:02:54 But I wouldn't call it a very close relationship.
00:02:56 I probably talked to him less than 10 times in total.
00:02:59 Did you guys ever break bread, just the two of you?
00:03:01 We had one meal together.
00:03:04 Just the two of you?
00:03:05 Just the two of you.
00:03:06 What was that like?
00:03:07 This was when he was seeking investment from Binance.
00:03:12 And we just chatted.
00:03:14 No, we just tried to get to know each other a little bit better, et cetera.
00:03:17 We had one meal together, just the two of us.
00:03:19 When you walked away, what was the feeling you got from him?
00:03:22 The feeling I got is he was very high EQ.
00:03:25 High EQ?
00:03:26 Yeah, he's very...
00:03:26 Really?
00:03:27 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:03:27 So he knows what to say to...
00:03:30 This is the impression I got for him.
00:03:34 He knows what to say, when to say it, in front of whom, in what circumstances, he will say the right stuff.
00:03:40 He was very respectful to me.
00:03:42 He was saying all the right stuff, like, we're going to collaborate, we're going to build this, we're going to help to grow the crypto industry, we're going to solve...
00:03:48 We're going to help the regulatory evolution.
00:03:51 He was saying all the right stuff.
00:03:53 Did you walk away saying, I like this guy.
00:03:56 I trust this guy.
00:03:57 Sounds like a good player.
00:04:00 Actually, after that meal, we actually declined to invest.
00:04:06 I think that was in summer 2019.
00:04:08 Where was it at?
00:04:09 Were you guys in the States?
00:04:11 Actually, it was somewhere in Asia, I think.
00:04:14 So I think Singapore somewhere.
00:04:17 But he wanted the investment from us.
00:04:21 We actually turned it down.
00:04:22 And then he came back in November to our CFO at the time, Uwei.
00:04:27 And he made a much improved offer.
00:04:30 And then we invested.
00:04:33 Why did you take the meeting the first time he came?
00:04:35 Was he already a player?
00:04:36 Was he somebody that was a known guy?
00:04:39 At that time, he was one of the larger traders.
00:04:42 He was a VIP trader.
00:04:43 Alameda was a VIP trader on Binance.
00:04:45 So the VIP manager is like, well, give him a meeting, right?
00:04:48 I usually don't meet with VIPs, but he has a specific proposal.
00:04:51 He wants to build a future exchange.
00:04:53 He wants to build FTX.
00:04:54 He wants us to invest.
00:04:55 And this is where you guys put $2 billion into it?
00:04:58 No, no, no, no.
00:04:59 We're putting much less money into it.
00:05:01 I think we, if I'm not mistaking, we probably put a couple million dollars into it.
00:05:09 This is way early on.
00:05:10 This is early on.
00:05:11 I think we got close to $2 billion out of the deal when we exited at the time.
00:05:17 And then we held them in FTT tokens.
00:05:20 Part of it was in FTT tokens, which went to zero now.
00:05:23 Oh, and that's why they're suing Binance, right?
00:05:26 I think $1.76 billion or whatever the number is, right?
00:05:29 There is no ongoing litigation.
00:05:31 Between them, though, you're not involved in that litigation.
00:05:34 I'm not too sure.
00:05:35 I don't think I'm...
00:05:36 Okay, but you haven't gone to court, so...
00:05:37 My lawyer's handling it.
00:05:39 But my lawyers did advise me not to talk about ongoing litigations.
00:05:43 If I remember correctly, your tweet or the decision was one of the reasons a lot of people said that caused them to go out.
00:05:53 Because you came out and you said, we're out.
00:05:55 We're not doing anything.
00:05:57 You were speaking to Sorkin, if I'm not mistaken.
00:06:01 You got on Aaron Sorkin.
00:06:04 You guys are on MSNBC or CNBC.
00:06:06 And then you said, no, I don't feel good about it.
00:06:09 You made some comments.
00:06:10 We're out.
00:06:10 And then from there, everybody said,
00:06:11 if CZ doesn't feel good about it,
00:06:13 there may be something going on here.
00:06:14 The crypto billionaire who helped expose SPFs
00:06:16 and Solvecin calls him
00:06:17 one of the greatest fraudsters in history
00:06:19 and accuses media and thought leaders
00:06:21 of being manipulated.
00:06:23 That's a pretty strong words right there.
00:06:24 Who said that, by the way?
00:06:26 Rob, is that...
00:06:26 Don't think those were my exact words.
00:06:29 Can you go a little bit lower in Fortune?
00:06:35 SPF is one of the greatest fraudsters in history.
00:06:36 He is a master manipulator
00:06:38 when it comes down to media
00:06:39 key opinion leaders he wrote in a tweet SPF perpetuated a narrative painting me and other
00:06:46 people as bad guys it was critical in maintaining the fantasy that he was a hero you click on that
00:06:51 tuesday with link to see if uh i don't think i would call him that i don't think i said all of
00:07:02 those words good for you that you know whether you said that or not it's just it's just not
00:07:09 not i would fortune write something like that go right there uh keep going low rob
00:07:15 it's critical maintaining this is one of the greatest fraudsters in history oh there it is
00:07:21 that's the tweet he's a master manipulator when it comes down to media and key opinion leaders
00:07:25 is that your twitter account or no that looks okay this is an actual twitter page right okay
00:07:30 Okay, that doesn't look like it.
00:07:33 So you don't remember it.
00:07:35 You were pissed off.
00:07:37 I normally would not use that kind of language.
00:07:39 That was pretty strong.
00:07:41 That was strong.
00:07:42 What got you to the point of saying something like that about him?
00:07:46 Okay, I think, can you scroll back on top of that tweet a little bit more?
00:07:50 Because it would be good to get some context here.
00:07:53 I think this is probably a tweet I was responding to accusations of...
00:07:57 yeah so there's a list of wrong narratives i've seen recently so a list of wrong nerves i've seen
00:08:02 recently one cz wants to be the savior of crypto crypto doesn't need saving crypto is fine so ftx
00:08:08 was killed by xyz no ftx killed themselves because they stole billions of dollars of user funds
00:08:14 period spf has good intentions but just made mistakes lying is never good intentions go a
00:08:19 little bit lower rob cz's tweet destroyed ftx no healthy business can be destroyed by tweet
00:08:24 however there was a tweet that may have uh caroline's tweet 60 minutes after mine on
00:08:29 november 6 shows data that it was real cause for people to dump ftx caroline said what if you're
00:08:33 looking to minimize the market impact on ftp sales alameda will happily buy it all from you
00:08:38 at 22 go a little bit lower rob she gave her floor price away spf perpetuated a uh a narrative
00:08:47 painting me as other people it was critical maintaining the fantasy that he was a hero
00:08:50 SPF is one of the greatest fraudsters.
00:08:51 Okay, so that's where you said that.
00:08:53 Okay, okay, okay.
00:08:54 All right.
00:08:54 Okay, yeah.
00:08:55 So, yeah.
00:08:56 I guess that was a pretty strong language.
00:08:59 I normally would not say that.
00:09:01 You don't remember this?
00:09:03 Well, I don't remember the whole thread, right?
00:09:05 Yeah.
00:09:05 So, like, you know, there's a lot of details in that thread.
00:09:09 It's not like one single message.
00:09:12 And this is 2022.
00:09:13 So, it's not like ChatGBT wrote that tweet.
00:09:15 That's you writing that tweet.
00:09:16 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:09:17 Yeah, yeah.
00:09:17 Yeah, so this account is so printed by me.
00:09:20 So, yeah.
00:09:22 Okay, so why such aggressive language towards him?
00:09:27 I think at the time, I guess a lot of people were saying that, you know, my tweet somehow killed FTN, right?
00:09:32 Which I said, look, that's not true.
00:09:35 As I said here, like a tweet.
00:09:37 I actually really like the answer.
00:09:38 A tweet cannot destroy great business.
00:09:40 Yeah, yeah.
00:09:40 So, yeah.
00:09:42 So, I think there was a sequence of events here, right?
00:09:45 so there was a coin desk uh reporting and then there was that was on like no early november
00:09:50 november 3rd or something and then um our finance people asked me like cz like we still have hold
00:09:56 the ftd tokens should we sell so i write a tweet i said yes we should sell and then our finance team
00:10:02 moved the tokens uh on the blockchain and people saw it and people were asking questions and then
00:10:07 our finance team says maybe you want to put a tweet out there saying like look um you want to
00:10:10 clarify that we're selling so um yeah so this is a tweet that you know i wrote we said we
00:10:15 um and uh i said we're gonna sell our ftp tokens and this is the place where we got them and people
00:10:23 can track it on the blockchain i said we're gonna sell them over a million months right we're gonna
00:10:26 sell them slowly not to uh have market impact so um and many people blame me for causing the ftp
00:10:34 you don't think you had any influence over it um i think your voice carries a lot of weight
00:10:40 especially at that time.
00:10:41 Yeah, but this also,
00:10:42 I think my voice carries weight,
00:10:45 but also there's a balance
00:10:47 between being transparent
00:10:47 and just do this quietly,
00:10:49 like we just sell our FTT tokens quietly
00:10:51 without letting the market know.
00:10:53 Well, I actually really,
00:10:54 I like the approach you took.
00:10:56 Here's what we're doing.
00:10:57 It's being honest with the market.
00:10:58 Your customers are seeing what you're doing,
00:11:00 but that doesn't mean
00:11:01 it doesn't have a negative impact on FTX.
00:11:04 It probably does have some market impact,
00:11:06 but again, I think many people
00:11:08 have tried to sell BNB tokens
00:11:10 which is our token well which is the token that you know uh we're building um but again if anyone
00:11:16 selling can kill can kill can kill your business you don't have a business really right no that's
00:11:21 a good point so now let me ask you so this makes me think about something else so at that time
00:11:25 reports came out one report said that he gave 40 million to the democratic party then another
00:11:31 report said he gave 70 million then a federal prosecutor came out and said it was 100 million
00:11:36 dollars that he gave up to a bunch of different people by the way on both sides of the house so
00:11:39 It wasn't like it was only one side.
00:11:42 Were you, yeah, right, the federal prosecutors led you
00:11:44 that Sam Engman-Fried used over $100 million
00:11:46 and stolen FTX customers to make political donations
00:11:48 ahead of 2020 to midterm elections.
00:11:51 Were you doing anything like this at the time yourself?
00:11:54 No, we couldn't donate.
00:11:56 We're like, no, I'm not a U.S. citizen.
00:12:00 So political donations are not possible for me.
00:12:03 Right.
00:12:03 Political donations.
00:12:05 So did anybody from the Biden administration
00:12:07 come up to you and say,
00:12:09 hey, if you give this much money,
00:12:11 we'll let this go?
00:12:12 Did you get anybody knocking on your door
00:12:14 saying, can you support our political campaign
00:12:17 by sending some Bitcoin,
00:12:18 by sending some this?
00:12:19 Not that I know.
00:12:21 I don't think that,
00:12:22 I don't know any of that.
00:12:24 You don't know any of that.
00:12:25 That didn't happen with me.
00:12:26 Didn't happen with you?
00:12:27 No.
00:12:28 So you don't remember a phone call?
00:12:29 You don't remember an email or a text
00:12:31 or anybody coming to you?
00:12:32 No, no, no.
00:12:32 No one asked us for donations.
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