Valuetainment - Bitcoin Expert Predicts A $100 Trillion Market Cap

00:00:00.000 you have been an early investor 200 million plus dollars 95% is in bitcoin bitcoin had crashed from

00:00:10.640 20 000 to 7 000 i think this thing's gonna hit three before it goes back to 10. at that point

00:00:14.960 i took about 50 of my net worth put it into bitcoin legacy system versus this new system

00:00:19.600 all of the assets that you could invest in bitcoin is going to outperform i've got such deep

00:00:23.760 conviction here i've literally been studying this for years sitting here now today i look like a

00:00:27.200 genius but frankly it was scary you predicted 2026 bitcoin's going to get to a million because an

00:00:32.720 event that's going to take place in 2024 i personally believe that one day bitcoin will be a hundred

00:00:38.560 trillion dollar asset to a lot of people saying bitcoin's the safest place to put your money

00:00:43.440 how can you say bitcoin's the safest place it has the best cyber defense you cannot hack bitcoin i can

00:00:49.440 actually go look on chain i can see every single wallet who's selling who's buying buffett is

00:00:53.360 talking about silver he's sitting on 200 billion dollars of cash but buffett is not buying when

00:00:59.040 you look at a warren buffett he hasn't outperformed the s p for the last decade if you had taken his

00:01:03.920 approach you've underperformed people have spoken this is superior technology it's a better system they

00:01:10.000 want it and they're going to use it so just last week on twitter i posed the question i said look i would

00:01:18.640 like to have a symposium of crypto experts from opposing sides meaning if in politics we have the

00:01:24.720 democrats and republicans give me both sides of crypto some are ethereum some are bitcoin some are

00:01:30.720 whatever i want to do a symposium and you know bring them here to valutainment florida let's have a

00:01:35.840 debate and let's have a good conversation everybody can watch it live the number one requested name was

00:01:41.360 my guest today anthony pump pompliano who's a former veteran who was in iraq he served and he came out

00:01:49.520 all of a sudden he decided to get into the financial industry spent thousands of hours studying the

00:01:54.480 concepts of finance and now when the topic of bitcoin comes up people contact this guy anthony with that

00:02:00.480 being said thank you so much for being a guest on valutainment absolutely thanks so much for having me

00:02:04.720 yeah so so so walk me through how you go from being a vet in the u.s army to all of a sudden

00:02:12.160 getting into crypto how did that take place yeah i mean the short story is uh when i got out of the

00:02:17.280 military uh i came back from iraq i went back to school and finished uh it was really important uh from

00:02:22.880 my father's perspective i was the first person in my family to graduate from college uh and so it was

00:02:27.200 kind of a big thing in his mind and uh you know in hindsight was a great decision uh then i started a

00:02:32.640 a couple of businesses and frankly i knew nothing about starting businesses made every mistake i

00:02:36.320 could write a book about everything not to do uh but ended up being all right and uh eventually went

00:02:42.080 and worked at facebook ran some product and growth teams there uh and then started investing in early

00:02:47.360 stage technology once i left facebook and the key piece to investing is just somebody told me early

00:02:53.200 on follow the talent right if smart people are all going to work on something go start paying

00:02:57.040 attention go start learning about it and it just became very clear that there was a ton of

00:03:01.200 intellectual capital flowing towards uh cryptocurrency and the entire industry and so i got my start

00:03:06.720 actually building mining facilities uh actually using the computational power to uh to mine bitcoin

00:03:12.000 or ether uh and then kind of fell down the rabbit hole and now i'm sitting here talking to you now let

00:03:16.720 me ask you the first time you invested into crypto or bitcoin what year was the first time you put a

00:03:21.040 dollar what year was it so the literally the very first cryptocurrency i ever got uh was actually ether and

00:03:27.920 uh i didn't convert dollars i'd bought some mining machines and and mine them i think this is like

00:03:34.240 uh end of 2016 which at the time i was like frantic uh because i thought i was so late i'd missed the

00:03:40.560 whole thing and uh you know talk to people from 2012 and they said well when i got in i thought i'd

00:03:45.520 missed the whole thing and you talk to the people today and they say they think they missed the whole

00:03:49.120 thing and so uh 2016 was the first time but uh but it's pretty uh pretty cool to see how far the

00:03:54.240 industry's grown since then so 20 you know i spoke to medicoven i think you had him on a couple days

00:03:58.480 ago as well he also got in like 2014 2015 2016 it's not like he's been around he he got into it also

00:04:05.200 recently and then boom you know some call him a crypto billionaire he's the guy that bob beples

00:04:10.240 every day is i think for 69.3 million but going back to facebook what what happened with the facebook

00:04:15.280 snap thing i've read something on some challenges happened with facebook snap you called them out you know

00:04:20.000 hey your numbers are what happened there what was that issue about yeah look you know

00:04:24.080 it's uh uh business is business right and so uh when i was at facebook we we built on a number of

00:04:29.440 really really great products uh i first was working on the growth team for facebook pages uh and we were

00:04:35.840 basically helping small medium-sized businesses use the platform uh and then before i left i had the

00:04:40.640 great opportunity to uh to help on some products that many people use today so uh one is the amber alert

00:04:47.040 product where basically when a kidnap child uh um you know the alert goes out basically in your

00:04:52.640 news feed you'll get a notification saying hey you'll be on the lookout call number uh and then

00:04:57.040 voter registration um and voter registration was um uh really interesting because uh facebook doesn't

00:05:03.760 care which side you vote right with that product they just want more people registered to vote uh

00:05:08.240 and so when we launched it if i remember correctly i think it was in the uk uh it was responsible for

00:05:12.880 like a double digit percentage of voter registration uh and so it's just cool to see kind of these

00:05:17.280 platforms and just how much reach they have and their ability to uh really drive uh folks to uh

00:05:23.360 to kind of you know do things that are good for society got it and then uh so so amber alert and

00:05:29.040 voter registration while you were at facebook when you were at facebook did you work directly with mark

00:05:33.520 or no were you were you working with them i'm curious yeah so um for a very short period of time

00:05:39.120 about uh i don't know six weeks eight weeks uh there was a team put together uh that really tried to

00:05:44.160 help uh both mark zuckerberg and cheryl sandberg uh just better understand the platform what was

00:05:48.560 happening on their pages you you got to remember that uh in the dominant platforms before around

00:05:53.120 social uh how does the founder of the platform interact with people on the platform so tom from

00:05:58.800 myspace everyone remembers he friended everybody right so everyone was tom's friend uh and it kind

00:06:04.000 of became this like cultural meme that's right yes yeah yeah yeah and so uh facebook didn't do

00:06:10.560 that um but really how do you as the founder of the platform how do you talk to people and and so

00:06:15.280 there was this team put together that basically tried to understand that um it was part of a larger

00:06:18.960 effort just around measuring sentiment on facebook and things like that and so uh that was really my

00:06:23.120 only experience working with uh with mark or cheryl um and frankly i was blown away i had the

00:06:27.920 opportunity as a young kid to uh to sit in some meetings with them and to watch uh you know a

00:06:33.280 multi-billionaire who's built this amazing business that you know was one of the most valuable

00:06:36.880 technology companies in the world literally in a meeting go from talking about the individual

00:06:41.360 um kind of strategy of a team or a product all the way down to in the middle of a presentation

00:06:46.240 start talking about the pixels and the design and then go back to kind of the macro level

00:06:50.400 um you know strategy stuff it's just it's absolutely incredible to watch uh in real time

00:06:55.360 what was cheryl's strength if that was his he can go technical and he can go more you know general

00:06:59.840 what was cheryl's strength i think she's just a great operator right she really really

00:07:03.760 understands how to operate a business she understood a lot of the revenue right all the

00:07:07.040 things that i think people from the external said like oh this is what she's there to do uh she's

00:07:11.440 done a fantastic job with and it's very obvious why when you get to sit and talk and listen to her

00:07:15.520 talk um but the other piece of this too i think is somebody once told me they were like look uh both

00:07:21.280 of them have the advantage of they've got more context than most of the people in the meeting

00:07:25.840 right zuck's the longest standing employee at facebook and so he was literally there when a

00:07:30.000 lot of these design or product decisions were made the people who else were in the room most

00:07:34.160 of them have moved on right and so when you're talking to mark you can have all the ideas in

00:07:38.640 the world he literally just has an information advantage right he's been around he knows why

00:07:42.320 certain decisions were made and so naturally what you want to do is you want to just kind of learn

00:07:46.080 from those people and so i was like 25 maybe 26 years old uh when i got the opportunity to work

00:07:51.840 alongside not only them but also a number of the the people who are still at facebook and leadership

00:07:55.280 positions and i just try to soak it up you know it's just like surround yourself with people who uh

00:07:59.680 who are smarter than you more experienced and frankly just shut up and listen and that was kind

00:08:03.440 of my strategy right looks like it worked so the question for you would be when is the first time

00:08:09.040 you made money where you would say pat i made money my first big success of money was i exited

00:08:14.800 this place i had this many shares company went public i bought this i flipped this what was your

00:08:19.600 first big victory you had with money yeah so uh the first time i made real money and i say real money

00:08:24.720 because uh a lot of the uh the companies that i built and sold and all this stuff uh there was

00:08:28.880 earnouts there was kind of paper gains there's all this stuff but but not actual real money right

00:08:33.040 and and you kind of learn those lessons again like i said i made every mistake in the book

00:08:36.320 uh but when i left uh facebook i had some uh stock and the stock had appreciated uh i think like 300

00:08:42.640 or something uh while i was there and so uh in 2016 i think it was uh is when i actually sold the

00:08:49.440 shares uh and i basically took 50 of it i put in the bank and said okay you know i'm gonna have this

00:08:54.320 money and i'll be able to live off of it for a while and the other 50 i took and i went and i

00:08:58.640 basically put it into cryptocurrency mining and so i've always been somebody who believes in kind

00:09:03.360 of concentration uh and kind of not taking a ton of shots but when you take a shot you know and you

00:09:08.000 make sure you know what you're talking about you got an advantage uh go in and try to exploit it and

00:09:12.240 so that's what i uh kind of really made money for the first time dramatically against what traditional

00:09:18.560 you know rhetoric we keep hearing about is don't have your money concentrated in one specific

00:09:23.600 area what if you lose the whole thing you which i'm a proponent of you want the complete opposite

00:09:28.960 side with putting all your money in one place what do you think about that well i think it depends on

00:09:33.920 who you ask right if you talk to let's say a kind of a personal finance uh guru or you talk to a

00:09:40.080 financial advisor uh really what they're optimizing for is they're trying to optimize for protecting the

00:09:45.520 capital right they're not necessarily optimizing for growing capital a lot of protecting capital a

00:09:49.440 lot of career risk involved there's not their money in many cases uh and so

00:09:53.280 they're always talking about diversification diversification is a fantastic way to protect

00:09:57.520 capital but if you're trying to compound capital and grow capital diversification actually can be

00:10:03.600 detrimental can be an obstacle to that goal and so when you look at you know a warren buffett right

00:10:08.240 he's famous for saying look diversification is for people who don't know what they're doing

00:10:12.320 now maybe that's a little bit of a hyperbole type statement he was trying to make a point but i do

00:10:16.720 think that when you look at the people who have built real wealth in the world almost all of them did it

00:10:21.280 through concentration they had a concentration either in investments or in the ownership of

00:10:25.520 businesses that they were running and so naturally there's uh kind of not a black and white world

00:10:30.560 right if you want to build wealth you got to have concentration but once you get wealth you better be

00:10:34.400 smart enough to protect it and that's where you can start to get some diversification uh to really

00:10:38.800 make sure that you don't lose uh very true and the flip side the opposite you know opposing side will

00:10:43.760 say well you don't know a lot of people that also went concentrate and lost everything they had yes but if

00:10:47.760 if you're trying to get for get all the marbles you have to take some risk which is what we subscribe

00:10:54.080 to so you have been an early investor 20 200 million plus dollars in early stage companies and including

00:11:01.280 many different unicorns from what i've been seeing lately is it used to say 50 of your net worth is in

00:11:08.080 bitcoin i saw recently you said 95 is in bitcoin are you really 95 of bitcoin today yeah so uh in 2018

00:11:16.960 um i i've made a ton of mistakes between 2016 and 2018 when it came to cryptocurrencies and i always

00:11:22.240 say that uh people just have to go through the learning like you have to go and actually experience

00:11:26.960 this stuff and so everything from i tried to trade realized it wasn't a good trader to uh i started

00:11:32.240 trying to mine different things realized that wasn't a smart idea uh and eventually in uh 2018

00:11:37.520 started to really wrap my head around like what is this thing and so uh in august of 2018 i wrote a

00:11:42.560 thing publicly and i said hey we were sitting around seven thousand dollars bitcoin had crashed from

00:11:46.320 twenty thousand to seven thousand uh and i said look you know based on everything that i've done

00:11:50.320 everything i've talked to everything i've learned i think this thing's going to hit three before it

00:11:54.000 goes back to ten and so i just sat there i waited it eventually did that and uh at that point i took

00:11:59.520 about fifty percent of my net worth put it into bitcoin uh and i felt like fifty percent was the right

00:12:03.840 number mainly because it was fifty fifty legacy system versus this new system i want to be equally

00:12:09.120 split i'm a young guy i've got good you know kind of high earning potential uh so i can take the

00:12:12.720 concentrated risk if i lose fifty percent it's not going to be the end of the world it'll suck i won't

00:12:16.400 be happy but you know i can recover from that well fast forward to 2020 when all of the kind of

00:12:22.000 craziness started to happen with the economic uh uncertainty and then obviously the government

00:12:26.400 intervention and kind of manipulation of markets and this became very evident like look if all of

00:12:31.200 the assets that you could invest in bitcoin is going to outperform it is going to serve as kind

00:12:35.120 of that fastest horse in the inflation hedge bucket as paul tudor jones called it later in the year

00:12:39.360 and so i basically just said i'm going all in right i've got such deep conviction here i've

00:12:43.520 literally been studying this for years i've got a belief that this is going to uh be the safest place

00:12:47.920 for me to put my wealth and so uh going from what had been fifty percent to basically all of my liquid

00:12:53.120 cash other than what i thought was uh you know enough to live on uh i just went all in bought bitcoin

00:12:58.400 and uh you know sitting here now today i look like a genius but frankly it was scary right you uh you kind of

00:13:04.720 making these buy purchases and you're just like i hope this works out because if not uh i'm the

00:13:09.680 biggest idiot in the room oh my gosh well i mean it worked in your favor in a big way which is great

00:13:16.320 and today we're i think today right now as of right now bitcoin's at 61 414 i think it's at 61 414

00:13:24.240 and uh to see you go from 3k to 61 214 that's 20x and that was 50 and you go 95 so the question

00:13:31.600 if 95 is bitcoin what's five percent yeah so uh the rest is and i should be clear that uh i think of

00:13:39.280 that as kind of like my liquid net worth right uh i've got a ton of exposure to uh illiquid companies

00:13:44.800 i basically when i think of kind of my portfolio i just write all of that to zero right i just say hey

00:13:49.200 look uh some of it will become true some of it will go to zero like we'll see kind of what happens

00:13:53.280 there um i'm very fortunate to have invested a number of these great companies uh that um you know from

00:13:58.880 an illiquid standpoint i don't know what the valuation of all that is i just you know kind

00:14:02.800 of zero it out the only other things that i have from an asset perspective are uh i own a little bit

00:14:07.280 of real estate and then it's cash so i literally own no public stocks uh i've got gbtc in a retirement

00:14:13.680 account that's the only public equity that i hold uh and other than that then it's pretty much just

00:14:17.440 bitcoin and so that's you know the belief is that it's the savings technology that has the best

00:14:22.240 ability to uh protect your purchasing power and outperform those financial assets uh so i choose just to

00:14:27.520 have concentration there you said safest place now you have to realize to a lot of people saying

00:14:32.720 bitcoin's the safest place to put your money i mean you're driving many people insane to say the

00:14:38.320 safest place right you know you save an account you got the treasury bills you got gold you got a

00:14:44.560 investment company active america with american funds since 1934 it's given you 12.7 you got all these

00:14:50.400 other places how can you say bitcoin's the safest place so i'm going to give you two separate

00:14:56.320 frameworks that i used to think through this right let's talk structurally first so if i said to most

00:15:01.200 people what's the safest uh place to park your wealth they'll say the us dollar and that's true

00:15:05.360 both in the western world and also developing nations around the world there's this idea of um

00:15:09.760 stability safety discipline and monetary policy like all the things that we assign to the us dollar and

00:15:16.480 frankly things that actually drive value in that us dollar right kind of it being the global reserve

00:15:21.120 currency etc uh but when you actually unpack that structure what you find is the us dollar's

00:15:26.560 monetary policy the decisions that drive the value of it uh are not very transparent there's a group

00:15:32.400 of people that go in a room privately they make decisions we don't really have a lot of understanding

00:15:36.960 of exactly what data they're looking at why they're making decisions when they make the announcements

00:15:41.440 we hang on every single word do they use dovish or not right what literally what color tie are they

00:15:47.040 wearing or not right i mean it's just pretty pretty archaic type um idea and then on top of that we

00:15:53.120 get no say either so when they decided to do two emergency rate cuts to the interest rate in uh q1 and

00:15:59.600 q2 of 2020 all of a sudden i had no say you had no say right then when you look at all the quantitative

00:16:05.360 easing that's occurred i had no say you had no say and so in many cases especially with the uh the central

00:16:10.960 banking these are not elected officials these are appointed officials and so again it's not something

00:16:15.440 where it's the uh kind of desires of the people now yes they are appointed by people that were

00:16:20.000 elected so there's kind of an indirectness to it but but i think that when you look at it it's just

00:16:24.000 not a transparent system it's a very human driven system when you look at bitcoin it's the exact

00:16:28.960 opposite right and the reason why that's important is because we've moved from this narrative based

00:16:33.440 world which is this old legacy world uh around central banking and all financial assets to now we're in

00:16:38.720 a world where i don't believe you prove it and so if i ask people right now how many dollars are

00:16:44.800 in circulation there's nobody who can tell you the exact figure right if i say to you how many

00:16:49.920 dollars were printed today or taken out of circulation nobody can tell you and so that is

00:16:55.280 a narrative driven world we're told that there's something there and we kind of directionally

00:16:59.440 understand but we don't actually have the provability when i look at something like bitcoin

00:17:03.440 it's a fully transparent system so not only can i tell you how many total bitcoin there will be in the

00:17:07.920 world i can tell you exactly how many are in circulation today i can tell you exactly how many came

00:17:12.480 into circulation on this day exactly 900 bitcoin were created today put into circulation i can go

00:17:17.520 back and i can actually show you every single transaction that has occurred since january 3rd

00:17:21.840 2009 and then on top of that and a really important part is the monetary policy is programmatic

00:17:27.200 meaning that i can actually tell you the interest rate or inflation decisions that are going to be made

00:17:31.760 well into the future literally decades into the future because it's written in transparent code

00:17:36.240 and if that code ever changes we'll know well in advance and so now all of a sudden i say okay i can

00:17:41.200 choose to put my money into a fiat currency where i don't know the people who are making the decision

00:17:46.080 i don't know what decisions they're going to make and also they can do absolutely insane things like

00:17:51.520 manipulate interest rates on emergency schedules and they printed 40 of all us dollars in circulation

00:17:57.040 the last 12 months that's crazy that is bitcoin bitcoin just does what bitcoin does right we know

00:18:02.880 every day for four years is going to produce 900 bitcoin per day put it into circulation

00:18:06.800 and then the beauty of it is you can look on chain at all of the data so if you even go to something

00:18:12.080 like stocks for example again from a structural standpoint coinbase recently went public and when

00:18:16.400 coinbase went public i think everyone thought the stock was just going to take off and you know go to

00:18:20.000 the moon well it didn't really do that and so my initial inclination was well maybe this is

00:18:24.640 like insiders because there's a direct listing uh there's no lockup period maybe there's just

00:18:28.640 insiders kind of you know capturing their profits and selling their cell pressure and eventually it'll

00:18:33.680 recover but i can't go validate that in bitcoin and crypto i can actually go look on chain i can

00:18:39.440 see every single wallet who's selling who's buying who's been holding how long have they been holding

00:18:43.760 when did they get that bitcoin all that kind of stuff and so it's just a more transparent system

00:18:48.640 and so when i think of safety from a structural standpoint i want to understand as much of the

00:18:53.280 system as i possibly can then you've got to look at okay forget my opinion forget anybody else's

00:18:58.160 opinion what's just the financial performance and in a year you know plus called 12 to 15 months

00:19:04.640 where literally there couldn't have been more economic chaos uncertainty bitcoin is by far the

00:19:09.440 best performing asset right if you look at the stock market it's up about 50 percent gold is basically

00:19:14.400 flat uh and bitcoin's up 800 the last 12 months it outperformed everything and the reason why it did

00:19:21.040 that is because it's a supply and demand game fixed supply there was an awakening in the institutional

00:19:26.880 world that this asset is going to serve as a store of value for a long period of time and you had a

00:19:31.840 bunch of institutions showing up trying to buy billions and billions of dollars of bitcoin but

00:19:35.680 the bitcoiners aren't selling 60 of bitcoin hasn't moved in the last 12 months and so 60 of big 60

00:19:42.240 hasn't moved in the last 12 months this is the most important thing for people to understand from a

00:19:46.240 market structure standpoint so 18.6 million bitcoin are in circulation but 60 of that has not moved in the last

00:19:53.920 12 months and on top of that the bitcoin that is available on the exchanges continues to drop so

00:20:01.120 actually what you're having is more as more people are buying it they're pulling it into cold storage

00:20:05.520 and they're long-term holders so really the kind of addressable circulating supply is only 40 percent of

00:20:12.160 that 18.6 million bitcoin so now when these institutions show up with billions of dollars

00:20:17.040 there's there's not a lot of bitcoin to buy right and that's where you get this rapid price

00:20:21.120 appreciation that we've seen over the last 12 months so so let me ask you this there's only a certain

00:20:25.360 supply of bitcoin i can get right you got 18.6 million 60 no one's selling 40 people are selling

00:20:30.720 so 40 of 18.6 million due to math say eight and a half say nine million whatever the numbers okay

00:20:36.960 seven and a half million whatever the numbers right okay so how come if we only have a limited amount

00:20:43.600 of gold how come gold didn't go up the same level that bitcoin did during the same exact period which

00:20:51.040 means you can't go print gold you can't go print uh bitcoin why didn't gold go up the way crypto did

00:20:55.920 the bitcoin did so i think i think there's two components to this one is uh the statement there's

00:21:01.840 a limited supply of gold we don't know that again a narrative driven world we're told that gold is scarce

00:21:07.760 but if i ask somebody well how much gold is there right now in the circulating supply again we don't know

00:21:11.840 for a fact right there's good guesses right so i don't i don't want to kind of uh take the uh the

00:21:16.400 the uh extreme view of like nobody knows we have a we have an educated guess but we don't know with

00:21:21.840 100 certainty compared to like let's say a bitcoin the second thing is that gold from a a social

00:21:28.560 consensus standpoint ask anyone under the age of 35 if they're buying gold or bitcoin right so what you

00:21:33.760 have is you have a capital shift from older kind of the boomer generation down to the younger

00:21:38.720 generation but the younger generation doesn't want to hold gold and so if you go and you look at the

00:21:42.960 same time that bitcoin went up uh over the last like let's say six seven months 500 percent gold is

00:21:49.280 down pretty materially right it's down like 15 20 percent and so it's not that doesn't make any sense

00:21:56.080 mathematically well because people are selling it right people are dropping gold and they're buying

00:22:01.520 bitcoin now again it is unclear how much of the people that are dropping gold and kind of selling gold are

00:22:07.200 actually going directly to buy bitcoin but what you can see is you can see an inverse

00:22:10.640 relationship as gold has gone down bitcoin has gone up and so what i think becomes really really

00:22:16.000 interesting is again a store of value ends up being more of a social consensus than a technology

00:22:23.520 consensus right and what i mean by that is bitcoin is by far ten hundred maybe a thousand x improvement

00:22:30.240 on gold from a technology standpoint it's more portable it's more divisible right it's more transparent

00:22:34.240 verifiable all that kind of stuff so from a pure just technology standpoint it is drastically more

00:22:39.760 superior but actually what's more important is the social consensus if everyone was yelling and

00:22:45.600 screaming saying go buy gold right during this uh kind of economic chaos gold would have went up

00:22:50.720 right but instead what does everyone have been talking about what is cnbc talking about all day long

00:22:54.480 right what is the uh institutional investment uh investors all talking about bitcoin and so naturally

00:22:59.360 that's where capital flows when capital flows to a fixed supply asset price has to go up to accommodate

00:23:03.360 everybody and so i think that you're just seeing a generational shift here where analog assets are

00:23:08.320 going to get replaced by digital assets and what history has shown us is that digital assets are

00:23:13.040 always bigger than their analog predecessors because the internet is just so much bigger than we ever give

00:23:18.160 it credit for so so let me ask you so when you look at real estate you can say well if the interest rate

00:23:23.360 goes up you know price of real estate goes down if real estate you know rates go down price of real

00:23:28.720 estate goes up like kind of right now the rates are kind of like coming up a little bit and you

00:23:31.920 notice when the price is dropping people like hey you know i thought i was going to pay you know

00:23:35.680 sell it for the price i want to know rates went up a little bit right so you can kind of directly

00:23:40.160 correlate rates to real estate and many other things you can link to real estate like when you think

00:23:45.680 about stock market there's a bubble you know we have a bull market bear market war you know certain

00:23:52.960 things that happens okay i'm going to take my money out a crisis that takes place what is the direct

00:23:57.600 correlation of and events taking place to cause bitcoin to go down or up i think we know what up

00:24:05.760 is but what is down is what i'm curious about yeah so uh from a macro view if you just take a relative

00:24:12.160 comparison between bitcoin and all of these other assets there are times just like in any asset or

00:24:17.280 market where there is higher degrees of correlation right so if you think of march of 2020 every asset sold

00:24:22.960 off everyone wants dollars it's a liquidity crisis and so naturally correlations go towards one but

00:24:27.840 when you look over a long period of time over many years bitcoin's correlation to most of the major asset

00:24:32.960 classes is about 0.15 so it's heavily non-correlated to other assets stocks bonds gold etc now that doesn't

00:24:40.560 mean that those short-term periods don't lead to correlation right so it's important to kind of long-term

00:24:44.960 short-term comparison now when you look at things like event driven price uh kind of um uh events

00:24:53.200 what you have to look at is why do people value bitcoin right it's actually usually economic hedge or

00:25:00.240 chaos hedge schmuck insurance whatever you want to call it or they look at it as some sort of savings

00:25:04.560 technology or they look at it as speculation so to your point when interest rates go down and

00:25:09.600 and kind of free money floods the system people go speculate and they're speculating everything from

00:25:14.640 game stop to bitcoin to name your you know financial asset for the young people are excited about

00:25:19.440 that is some portion of the population but again 60 percent haven't sold or moved their bitcoin in the

00:25:25.280 last 12 months those guys aren't speculating those are long-term believers holders whatever you want to

00:25:29.040 call them so why are they holding this there's a very big portion of it they just simply look at it

00:25:34.000 as a savings technology if you look at most financial assets and you denominate them in gold and not

00:25:39.360 dollars they're actually down since 1971. so the u.s stock market is down in gold versus uh being up in

00:25:46.240 dollars why is that some will argue right that it's simply just the dollar being devalued and so

00:25:51.680 naturally you get kind of uh price appreciation of an asset that's nominated in dollars because dollars

00:25:56.400 being devalued well against bitcoin bitcoin actually is increasing your purchasing power it's not

00:26:02.400 decreasing like the dollar is and so those people just want to save in an asset that will continue to

00:26:06.960 appreciate that uh purchasing power rather than have it decrease in dollars and then the third

00:26:12.000 bucket which is actually a really really interesting bucket is this schmuck insurance

00:26:15.760 right and so i think that there's this very interesting kind of conversation around in the

00:26:19.920 united states if you look at the federal reserve's comments or you look at other people there's this

00:26:24.880 belief that like we're above it right it's american exceptionalism that we that there's no way that

00:26:29.280 the dollar could ever fail we'll never lose control from monetary policy standpoint again i'm a believer

00:26:35.040 of like it's a very very low probability but it's a non-zero probability and so when you see things

00:26:40.560 like you know last year we heard a lot from the federal reserve of we're not worried about inflation

00:26:44.320 inflation isn't going to happen it's a deflationary environment it can soak it up all that kind of

00:26:48.240 stuff well over the last 60 days actually we started to see some inflation and now what we're being told

00:26:52.880 is like oh it's temporary and maybe it is maybe it's not i don't know but like that's a very

00:26:56.800 different story than we were just being told six nine months ago and so when you look around the

00:27:00.400 world what you realize is there's a lot of countries that went from we're not worried about

00:27:04.000 inflation to inflation is temporary to all of a sudden we can't control the inflation right and

00:27:08.480 so like it doesn't take a lot to spiral out of control if anyone in the world is well equipped to

00:27:13.200 deal with it the united states is probably that country right in terms of we've been really uh

00:27:17.040 disciplined with monetary policy for a long time we've got a lot of tools we got the global

00:27:20.880 reserve currency all that but i do think that there is a mispricing of risk in the market where

00:27:27.440 if most people assign zero percent value to there being any sort of structural uh issue

00:27:33.360 and bitcoiners assign one percent probability of there being a structural issue that ends up being

00:27:38.400 catastrophic bitcoins are probably closer to the truth than the people who assign zero value right

00:27:43.600 just by the nature of it being a non-zero probability and so i think that that mispricing

00:27:48.400 leads a lot of bitcoiners to simply look at it as that insurance um and so when you start to

00:27:53.360 extrapolate this out to not this bitcoin community but the kind of global macro environment you now

00:27:58.960 have billionaires doing this you now have fortune 500 companies doing this you now have pension

00:28:03.520 funds doing it you have sovereign wealth funds doing it there's a lot of people who are starting

00:28:07.440 to say wait a second i got zero exposure and zero exposure is the wrong number maybe i should have

00:28:12.240 25 basis points or maybe i should have 25 but i got to have some exposure i can't be on zero anymore

00:28:17.680 oh so uh oh you know when when something like this is taking place take a guy like warren buffett when

00:28:24.800 you think about investments you think about a warren buffett right you take a ray dalia you got

00:28:28.640 to put him into right ray dalia what he's done himself you know buffett is talking about silver

00:28:35.680 hey he put his money in silver right now i think he's sitting on 200 billion dollars of cash is what

00:28:40.080 he's sitting on imagine that 200 billion dollars would have been in portion you know crypto 800 you're

00:28:44.720 talking about 1.6 trillion dollars is what uh uh uh berkshire hathaway would have had it would

00:28:50.880 have been the largest company in the world even bigger than amazon and yet if they just would have

00:28:54.480 put their cash in there but buffett is not bought in ray dalio is critical about it because he thinks

00:29:00.800 regulation is going to get to it do you think what is happening is the old timers who have had their set

00:29:06.880 of philosophies that's worked for them for decades they are so set in stone with the way

00:29:14.080 they see what's worked for them that they're not willing to break from it to say hey maybe we have

00:29:18.720 to take a look at what's going on with crypto do you think the next phase a lot of these old school

00:29:25.360 heavy-duty people that we've respected for decades are going to be exposed not even exposed like they

00:29:31.280 don't know what they're doing obviously they know what they're doing but maybe their method of

00:29:35.280 investment is outdated for 2021 and these are people you and i admire these are people that we have a lot

00:29:40.960 of respect for what do you think about that yeah so i think it's important to call it right out of the

00:29:45.120 gate anyone who says that warren buffett is an idiot or ray dalio or you know name your kind of favorite

00:29:51.200 uh kind of historic uh return investor uh you know they're just being intellectually dishonest so

00:29:57.360 they had an epic run they're absolutely some of the best investors in the world now with that said

00:30:02.240 they made most of their money uh or the decisions they made that made most of their money in a different

00:30:07.520 right it wasn't a digital technology driven world for the most part as we know it today

00:30:11.920 and so when you look at you know a warren buffett for example uh he hasn't outperformed the s&p for

00:30:17.200 the last decade now again that doesn't take anything away from his track record he's one of the best

00:30:21.440 investors in the world but the world has either changed or he's the rational person in an irrational

00:30:27.280 world so you can take your pick as to why the you know this has played out this way but he hasn't

00:30:32.080 beat the s&p in the last decade and so if you had taken his approach you've underperformed

00:30:36.480 now there's plenty of people who say well look at uh somebody on the extreme other end

00:30:41.280 masayoshi's son from softbank right who i don't think anyone thinks that masayoshi and warren buffett

00:30:47.040 sit down and they're like we're going to pick the same stocks we're going to pick the same investment

00:30:50.080 strategy right but masayoshi everyone thought he was crazy and now all of a sudden it looks like

00:30:54.800 softbank's vision fund's going to do pretty dang well and so i think when you start to really unpack

00:30:59.200 some of this you've got to look at okay what is the environment that we're in this technology

00:31:03.600 enabled kind of digital world what are the investments and what i think that we're starting

00:31:07.920 to unpack here is uh there's a lot of hero worship that happens in the financial markets right it's

00:31:13.200 because you did something 10 years ago or 20 years ago of course you're going to be smart here sometimes

00:31:18.000 that is true but i think that's a very dangerous precedent to kind of fall under and so what i like

00:31:22.400 to do is just simply look at and say okay what are you trying to accomplish for a young guy like me

00:31:28.000 it's asymmetry right and so that asymmetry ends up being really important because you can risk less

00:31:33.440 capital and there's a higher payoff more risk but higher payoff and so if that's what you're looking

00:31:37.840 for it's actually the exact opposite thing of what warren buffett is trying to accomplish right

00:31:42.080 warren buffett understands he's got 200 billion dollars in cash he's got this big machine he wants

00:31:45.920 to protect his wealth he wants to continue to compound it and if you can compound you know uh

00:31:50.080 hundreds of billions of dollars at eight ten percent a year you're going to do just fine bitcoin has

00:31:54.880 compounded at 200 compound annual growth rate for a decade so simply just holding bitcoin right

00:32:00.320 would have drastically outperformed warren buffett now that doesn't mean that either one of those

00:32:04.240 people are right or wrong it's just they're optimizing for something different and so what i

00:32:07.440 think will end up happening is the older generation the folks who are kind of um at the ends of their

00:32:12.880 career they're not going to come around right they just that a lot of them will even say that i'm not

00:32:16.720 a technology investor i don't understand this stuff it violates a lot of my world view i just i'm a value

00:32:21.760 person or whatever their strategy is what i do think is likely to happen though is a lot of the

00:32:26.400 younger people in their organizations as they rise up in kind of power influence and positions

00:32:31.600 they'll start to diversify into a lot of this so there will be a day where berkshire hathaway

00:32:36.480 buys bitcoin it's probably not going to be warren buffett pulling the trigger on that decision it'll

00:32:40.800 probably be somebody else listen foresight you know great uh great uh prediction of what could

00:32:46.480 potentially happen but it's it's got to be pretty tough to be done because even the other day

00:32:51.440 for example when i'm asking about the biggest enemy that crypto may have bitcoin may have right

00:32:55.600 um janet yellen not a fan you know that she's not a fan powell not a fan uh ray dalio said there's

00:33:03.040 probably going to be regulation coming to it i mean i can give you a list of names plethora of names

00:33:07.760 politically that are not for what can happen to crypto and bitcoin and all of that what is the worst

00:33:15.040 thing you know because some people say if you really understand bitcoin you will know they can

00:33:20.480 never regulate bitcoin right you've here you've heard that same before millions of times by pro

00:33:24.880 crypto folks but what is the worst thing a yellen a powell a biden the political people can do

00:33:34.320 to the crypto world well i think they've already probably done it it hasn't stopped it right and so

00:33:39.680 i'll give you two scenarios uh one is an international scenario where we have some data points and then once

00:33:44.560 what's happening in the united states uh so internationally we've seen people ban it right

00:33:48.320 we've seen pakistan we've seen nigeria uh china we've seen multiple countries go and ban it and

00:33:53.840 when they ban it guess what happens adoption goes through the roof right so actually by banning it

00:33:58.560 you're almost running a marketing campaign and especially in those countries where people already

00:34:02.720 have a distrust for their government the second the government says don't do something they ask why

00:34:06.400 does the government not want me to do that right and they actually go and they adopt it yeah um and so i

00:34:10.480 think that banning it is a great example of what not to do for a government if a government wants to

00:34:16.640 quote unquote attack bitcoin or be adversarial to bitcoin the better thing for them to do would

00:34:21.440 probably be overly regulatory right or like have an overreach in the regulatory realm and so if you

00:34:26.640 look at bitcoin bitcoin is the most regulated currency in the united states and when here's what i mean by

00:34:31.840 that if you and i go to dinner and you buy dinner with dollars you simply pay sales tax on that

00:34:38.160 transaction if i buy uh dinner with bitcoin i not only have to pay the sales tax i then have to pay

00:34:43.840 capital gains short or long term on the purchase because it's treated as property for me now cashing

00:34:50.400 out to uh to pay for this thing and so from a regulatory standpoint there's actually a financial

00:34:55.200 incentive for me not to use bitcoin in the united states right that that is a obstacle that even

00:35:01.280 though it's in place this year bitcoin's on-chain transaction volume meaning people actually using

00:35:06.320 it not for trading on exchanges but actually using it for whatever purpose will be over five trillion

00:35:10.960 dollars of on-chain transaction volume that's more transaction volume this year and last year

00:35:15.440 than venmo apple pay or paypal so people who say no one's using it like wait a second this is more

00:35:20.240 popular than that jamie diamond said chase is seven trillion so wait a minute did you just say it's

00:35:25.600 five trillion dollars just for bitcoin in the last couple months if you take uh the current on-chain

00:35:32.800 transaction volume you just annualize it right it'll be over seven trillion dollars of transaction

00:35:37.680 volume on the actual bitcoin blockchain this year in uh twenty twenty seven or five seven or five seven

00:35:43.920 seven yes and so when you start to unpack some of this you really start to understand that okay

00:35:50.800 even though there is this big obstacle around taxation right people are still using it the second

00:35:55.680 thing is everyone forgets you don't actually ever regulate an asset right it's not like you're

00:36:00.480 gonna put the dollar in jail or you're gonna go and get the dollar bill and scream at it and say

00:36:04.320 give me your tax money so we'll say the thing with bitcoin right the asset itself isn't what gets

00:36:08.080 regulated it's the organizations and the people who use it transact support and have related services

00:36:13.200 to it and so in the united states a crypto company is subject to all of the same rules and regulations

00:36:19.120 as any financial company if you need to have a money transmitter license in the regular finance world

00:36:23.120 you need to have it in crypto you need a broker dealer license kyc aml all that stuff but in certain

00:36:28.480 areas let's say in the state of new york if you're a crypto company you have to get an additional

00:36:33.440 license that the other financial companies don't have to get something called a bit license so it's

00:36:37.440 actually harder for you to conduct a crypto business in the state of new york than it is for you to

00:36:41.360 conduct our traditional financial institution and so in some crazy way bitcoin and the crypto ecosystem

00:36:47.600 is more regulated than the traditional financial system and that kind of blows people's minds because

00:36:52.080 they're like what do you mean how is this possible whatever well if you tax it more than other

00:36:56.000 currencies and then you make the companies get additional licenses that other financial companies

00:37:00.400 don't need to get then what you're doing is actually putting up these obstacles even though

00:37:04.400 all of that's occurred you have in the liquid market a two plus trillion dollar market cap bitcoin

00:37:08.880 is a trillion dollar of that and then on top of that you've got multiple multi-billion dollar

00:37:12.880 companies within the united states that have been built in this industry and so no matter what

00:37:16.240 regulation you put in the way even if in other countries you ban it or in the united states you

00:37:20.320 simply try to over regulate it it doesn't matter people have spoken this is superior technology

00:37:25.840 it's a better system they want it and they're going to use it and just like they did to uber

00:37:29.920 and airbnb where they try to use regulation and kind of all of this political overreach it doesn't matter

00:37:34.960 if people want it they're going to get it and that's the new paradigm in the technology world

00:37:39.200 is the technology so is superior from an adoption standpoint to any sort of regulation you can put in

00:37:44.880 a certain way you can disincentivize it all you want if it is better and it has product market fit

00:37:49.360 it will be adopted uh anthony what uh what is easier for law enforcement to investigate and find

00:37:55.920 fbi you know ftc pick them you know scc any one of them pick any one of those guys would they prefer

00:38:04.960 cryptocurrency being the you know modern day day-to-day usage of a uh uh you know currency that we use over

00:38:11.680 fiat or even gold is it easier to trace the bad guy doing what he's doing with crypto

00:38:18.160 so naturally uh bitcoin is a transparent ledger literally every single transaction is put into

00:38:23.840 a public ledger that you can go on the internet and you can search anyone in the world with an

00:38:27.200 internet connection can search this thing uh so i always joke that uh a law enforcement officer uh

00:38:32.400 who was in uh in one of the uh the the federal law enforcement uh agencies once told me if a criminal

00:38:37.920 is committing a crime we want their hands on a keyboard right it leaves a digital trail and so

00:38:42.400 it's always easier for them to track it that's not just currency that's just any crime in general we

00:38:46.880 want their hands on a keyboard uh with that said the choice currency of money launderers drug dealers

00:38:52.960 criminals terrorists etc around the world today is absolutely us dollars there's estimations that

00:38:59.200 come out of the uk uh in some of their uh kind of national uh studies that over two trillion dollars

00:39:05.840 is laundered annually annually two trillion dollars is laundered in the fiat system with us dollars

00:39:12.160 well that's the entire size of all cryptocurrencies combined so you start looking at this and you say

00:39:17.600 okay well what about on a percentage basis well there's estimations that anywhere between one to

00:39:22.560 three percent of all us dollar uh transactions are used for illicit purposes uh globally the latest

00:39:29.360 estimation when it comes to cryptocurrency is 0.4 percent 40 basis points that's all is the illicit

00:39:35.280 transactions you just had a former cia director come out and say listen this whole kind of narrative

00:39:40.400 that a lot of people in government and in the central bank and treasury are spinning around it's

00:39:44.640 used for illicit purposes he's like it's not true the data does not support that and the beauty is that

00:39:49.760 we can actually prove it because it's all on chain and so there's this very interesting conversation

00:39:55.120 around yes law enforcement has a much better ability to uh kind of track this stuff and analyze it but

00:40:00.800 it's also important to keep the privacy the financial privacy the human right to be able to

00:40:05.520 use money without being tracked by your government at the same time and so i think that's the

00:40:09.120 conversation that's going to start coming up here over the next couple of years you know

00:40:13.920 great answer they're very helpful medical and i asked him i said hey how come you don't live in

00:40:17.360 us why do you live in singapore right and if you go look at the economic index on the heritage's

00:40:22.880 website the highest one today is singapore i think they just passed new zealand they're number one right

00:40:27.280 now meaning the freest country in the world you can live in you're living in us i said why aren't

00:40:30.880 you living in us he says i lived in canada i lived in uk i lived in india and i live in now singapore

00:40:36.080 he said i wouldn't want to live in us because us has fingerprints they want to know everything you

00:40:40.080 have over here i don't pay capital gains i don't pay this i don't pay that the income taxes 10 or 20

00:40:44.960 and i don't have all these other taxes on top of it and they don't want to know how much money i have

00:40:49.120 how optimistic are you on the future of america you talked about america earlier where you said

00:40:53.760 americans have a tendency of believing that's going to be the greatest country in the world and you know

00:40:57.040 currency no one can go up against the currency it's the best currency in the world how optimistic

00:41:01.120 are you with america as a product not not crypto not bitcoin yeah so i believe that america and

00:41:08.400 the american ideals are have created and still is the greatest country in the world right and the

00:41:14.160 belief in capitalism free markets and democracy uh we are very spoiled here in this country uh

00:41:21.040 compared to where most people live uh in the world uh with that said uh i always look at it as just

00:41:27.440 because you were able to ascend to this position of uh of privilege and power and and kind of freedom

00:41:34.000 does not mean that is guaranteed in the future and so in the united states i think that what we are

00:41:38.960 starting to get to a point of is we're the fat cat in the room right we're happy this is america we can

00:41:45.040 do no wrong we've got the greatest military in the world we've got a global reserve currency we are the

00:41:49.360 kings of the world well every dynasty and empire in history has fallen and usually it is because

00:41:57.040 they become the fat cat in the room they stop pursuing innovation they stop pursuing kind of

00:42:01.360 independent thought and problem solving and critical thinking and they simply start saying we win because

00:42:06.160 we are america right and i think it's a very dangerous place to be in and so i think that the the

00:42:10.800 best place frankly that this is showing up is in something like bitcoin and cryptocurrencies where

00:42:15.840 when you look at an open decentralized system you can see the rhetoric that's being used in a lot of

00:42:20.960 this people are starting to say oh some one of our adversaries may use this technology and that will

00:42:26.640 be detrimental to the united states well when you're the incumbent you constantly look at regulation

00:42:32.240 and you look at how can i rig the market to my advantage how do i king make right when you're

00:42:36.640 the startup that's not what you think you think give me the tools and i'll compete in the free market

00:42:41.040 you you enjoy the competition right you want to go fight the battle and so i think that what we've

00:42:45.280 got to do is we got to get back to that right the industrial revolution and a lot of what made america

00:42:49.520 america was about us saying give us the technology and we're going to go compete in a free market and

00:42:54.080 we're going to win and so i think that what ends up happening is we've got a decision to make

00:42:58.080 we're we are the greatest country in the world do we want to continue to do that or are we going to go

00:43:02.080 into decline and i think that what we have to do is we have to continue to pursue technological

00:43:06.240 innovation and we have to make sure that through incentives whether that's tax regulation or

00:43:11.520 otherwise that we want the smartest people in the world living here working here building here and

00:43:16.800 employing people and if we do that we got a shot no guarantee but we got a shot but i think there's

00:43:22.320 a couple of other countries that are starting to catch on to the game right singapore uh is one area

00:43:26.640 there's plenty of others that start saying look we're going to take the american playbook and we're

00:43:30.080 going to use it against them so let's go compete yeah it's going to be interesting and by the way china

00:43:35.360 right now i don't know if you saw what came out story this week when they said china looks at us

00:43:39.920 as their equal they no longer look at their superior this was said this monday we talked

00:43:44.080 about on the podcast i mean you heard peter thiel i think last week i think it was last week when he

00:43:47.840 talked about the fact that hey you know china's using bitcoin as a way to manipulate the u.s currency

00:43:54.080 the fiat currency this is a national security so what do you think about what peter thiel is saying

00:43:59.600 because you when you talk about the startup hey just 20 years ago china was number eight

00:44:03.040 you know china was number seven and they did that uh olympics in oh wait i think it was when we're

00:44:08.000 like what the hell with the way they would walk how many times have these guys there's the greatest

00:44:13.040 opening show every like these guys are going to compete they went from eight seven six five four

00:44:18.720 three two in 2025 they're planning on being number one what do you think peter thiel is saying the fact

00:44:24.240 that they're going to use bitcoin to manipulate the u.s currency to weaken it yeah so i think that uh the

00:44:30.640 context of his comments are really important right so first is uh he was very clear that he's pro

00:44:35.840 bitcoin he's pro crypto he considers himself a bitcoin maximalist uh and uh and believes that it

00:44:41.360 will continue to accrue value as this like global store of value the second thing is that right before

00:44:45.920 he talked about bitcoin he actually said that uh at one point the euro was seen as a financial weapon

00:44:51.120 by china against the united states and it ended up not actually being able to kind of weaken the dollar

00:44:57.040 enough or have the impact that they wanted it to have right so this is not a new concept or a new

00:45:01.360 framework for people to kind of evaluate uh china's global aspirations compared to the us uh and so the

00:45:06.560 idea with bitcoin is that uh if people start to adopt bitcoin then that will destabilize the global uh

00:45:12.880 reserve currency right and bitcoin will end up being uh kind of global reserve currency now what i always

00:45:17.920 say is bitcoin is a open network it's an open decentralized network very similar to the internet

00:45:22.960 and so when the internet came along the united states had a very big hand in creating that and

00:45:26.800 adopting it embracing it using it to their advantage but there are countries around the

00:45:30.640 world that said oh my god other people are going to use this and so we're not going to use it we're

00:45:34.320 going to cut our citizens off from the internet north korea is a great example it didn't turn out so

00:45:38.880 hot for north korea and their citizens and so when you have an open decentralized network naturally

00:45:44.080 people around the world are going to use it open systems beat closed systems and so when you think of

00:45:49.120 it from that standpoint the united states has a choice we can be adversarial and we can be kind

00:45:53.840 of closed system minded right we can say hey we're not going to use this thing because another country

00:45:57.680 may try to adopt it or use it and use it to their benefit or we can simply say you know what there's a

00:46:03.920 global game we're going to go compete we're going to embrace this and we're going to make sure that if

00:46:08.320 anyone benefits from bitcoin in this open system we benefit more than anybody else and i think that's

00:46:13.200 the winning strategy here it's not to say oh let's ban our our citizens from using this let's

00:46:18.800 try to look at this as a threat it's to say hey there's a weapon up for grab let's go use it and

00:46:23.360 we'll be the winners and because every other country is going to do that as well so why don't

00:46:27.040 you just go make sure you benefit more than everybody else from it it's interesting you've

00:46:30.720 seen an open system we've closed system some would say obviously you know the whole made in china 2025

00:46:36.320 they've been taking all our you know secret you know everything trade secrets that we have when

00:46:40.640 they're doing business with companies we get to use your trade secrets in china they use it

00:46:44.320 some would say china's closed and us has been open and how is china being closed and they're

00:46:51.440 catching up to us so it's going to be interesting to see what happens there with that but let me let

00:46:55.920 me go to a complete different side now we've covered a lot of things with bitcoin you know

00:46:59.600 maybe one prediction so the audience can see this at 61 414 as of right now uh you predict that it's

00:47:05.920 going to get to what 100 000 by the end of the year some people are saying two or three times higher

00:47:09.600 than you by the end of the year and you predicted 2026 bitcoin's going to get to a million and the

00:47:15.600 way you describe that is because an event that's going to take place in 2024 do you mind unpacking

00:47:20.880 that and explaining what you mean to say bitcoin's going to get to a million by 2026 yeah so uh it

00:47:27.440 all goes to the programmatic monetary policy right so when you look at bitcoin from a structural

00:47:32.240 standpoint 21 million bitcoin uh will ever be created the way that that enters into the circulating

00:47:37.600 supply is back in 2009 50 bitcoin every 10 minutes was put into the circulating supply

00:47:43.920 via something called a bitcoin reward that we can talk about later uh and so that happened every 10

00:47:48.080 minutes 50 bitcoin are put into circulating supply for four years after four years there was a supply

00:47:54.160 shock where that 50 bitcoin every 10 minutes went to 25 bitcoin every 10 minutes so it was written

00:47:59.840 into code people knew it was happening but it went got cut in half right it's called the bitcoin

00:48:04.320 halving when that event occurs and you have a supply shock if demand continues to grow at the same rate

00:48:10.480 you naturally will get a repricing of an asset right supply goes down on a daily basis but demand

00:48:15.920 stays constant or goes up the price has to move up to accommodate the change in the supply schedule

00:48:21.520 so 50 to 25 25 for four years it then got cut in half again to 12 and a half did that for four years

00:48:27.920 in may of 2020 it ended up getting cut in half again uh as it was scheduled to uh to 6.25 and so

00:48:34.800 back in 2019 i said look when this halving occurs there's going to be a repricing of the asset right

00:48:39.760 the supply shock is going to drive the price higher and so 100k what was the number now the reason why i

00:48:46.800 say a million dollars by 2026 is that in 2024 there is going to be another supply shock there will be

00:48:53.840 another cutting in half from 6.25 right 50 reduction and so naturally what just happens

00:48:59.280 is when those supply shocks occur there's a repricing by the market of the asset now what's

00:49:04.080 really fascinating about this if anyone studies kind of financial markets or looks at financial assets

00:49:08.880 is that in the traditional world there's uh commodities like let's say gold that use stock to

00:49:14.400 flow uh analysis stock to flow simply says how many gold how much gold is in the world and then how

00:49:19.440 much is coming in on a daily weekly or monthly basis and you try to predict both the supply side

00:49:24.240 of the equation and the demand side and therefore gives you future price predictions well with bitcoin

00:49:29.760 you know with 100 certainty the supply side of the schedule so i know exactly how many bitcoin there are

00:49:35.840 today and i can tell you on each day into the future with near 100 accuracy how many bitcoin

00:49:41.360 there are going to be so when you can model out with accuracy the supply side and it's programmatic

00:49:46.800 you only have to focus on predicting the demand side right because i know with certainty in the

00:49:52.160 in the programmatic monetary policy supply so now it just comes down to demand and so what you can do

00:49:56.160 is you can basically just extrapolate out we've got 12 years of data well what's the growth rate of

00:50:00.240 people coming into bitcoin and you just continue to extrapolate that out and what you start to

00:50:04.240 realize is this stock to flow analysis is deadly accurate right and so naturally when you see that

00:50:11.600 sure are there days where bitcoin trades above or below where it's supposed to be of course

00:50:15.600 right it's a volatile asset uh in some ways but at the same time the direction of this thing is very

00:50:21.680 very accurate because 50 percent of the supply demand equation is known and so in in this crazy crazy

00:50:28.000 world bitcoin is actually a more predictable asset than almost any other asset in the world because

00:50:33.520 it's fully transparent so so at the way you described you said gold is what 10 trillion you said

00:50:42.080 it's only 10 trillion right now bitcoin is a trillion uh and uh the uh this is uh potentially

00:50:48.000 gonna end up being twice as big as gold uh because with gold you know you can't really track with this

00:50:53.120 it's more trackable it's easier so 20 trillion dollar market the 20 trillion dollar you know that

00:50:58.320 breaks down to be a million dollars per uh bitcoin do you think it has a possibility in 2031 to get to

00:51:04.880 5 million do you think it has a possibility by 2040 to get to 10 million or do you think it's going to get

00:51:09.520 to point and kind of level off and stay there for a while so let's remove uh the time scale from the

00:51:16.080 conversation for a second right to have an accurate prediction you need to have an event and you need

00:51:20.640 to have a time right but let's take away time for a second and just talk about directional progress

00:51:25.360 uh the reason why some of these industries are so big right around stores of value art real estate

00:51:31.840 right etc a lot of commodity markets is because the dollar is devalued right if the dollar wasn't

00:51:38.080 devalued if you could simply get paid in dollars leave it in your bank account and have the same

00:51:43.040 or more more purchasing power in the future you would never get out of the dollar you would simply

00:51:47.040 save right if you go to like let's say a country like india uh where the culture was you basically

00:51:52.560 got gold and then you just pass the gold on from generation to generation to generation

00:51:56.560 right well in the us and in many developed countries you can't do that because the currency is

00:52:02.960 being devalued so you're financially incentivized to either consume goods and services or to invest

00:52:08.080 the capital right and that's part of the velocity of money and all this kind of stuff so that is a

00:52:12.080 feature of the system not a bug when all of a sudden you can simply save in an asset a currency

00:52:19.360 like bitcoin you can get paid in bitcoin and simply leave it there people will stop or drastically

00:52:24.800 slow down the rate of investment into other store of value assets that's why you see gold going down

00:52:30.240 and people simply saving in bitcoin uh you can look at uh high-end art you can look at real estate in

00:52:36.000 the future and so in a crazy way i personally believe uh without a time uh prediction on it that

00:52:42.480 one day bitcoin will be a hundred trillion dollar asset right it's 100x from here now does that take

00:52:49.600 yeah does that take uh one year does that take 20 years 50 years i don't know right i want to get

00:52:55.920 into kind of the time component because that's the hardest part of that prediction but what i do know

00:53:00.000 is that it's not crazy to think that if bitcoin is a let's say 100 or a thousand x improvement on

00:53:05.040 the technology front than gold that naturally if you just are a 10x better or bigger market cap than

00:53:11.520 gold then you would be 100 trillion right because gold's 10 trillion times 10 is just 100 trillion yeah

00:53:16.960 and so the other part of this that becomes really crazy is we're talking about in 2026 being

00:53:22.880 2x the current gold market cap right today we're sitting at a trillion dollar bitcoin uh market cap

00:53:28.560 to get to uh 20 trillion 20x 2x the gold market cap well the conversation that no one's happening is

00:53:34.880 when does the flippening happen between bitcoin and gold it's not when bitcoin gets to 10 trillion

00:53:40.320 because by the time bitcoin continues to grow gold's market cap is going to continue to contract

00:53:45.760 and if you look at the actual distribution of ownership in gold everyone always likes to point

00:53:52.320 and say uh oh well you use gold in your cell phone and you know all this technology and stuff seven

00:53:58.080 percent of gold usage or ownership is due to any sort of technology application the majority of it is in

00:54:05.680 store of value and jewelry jewelry demand for big or for gold peaked in 2013 and has been on the steady

00:54:13.440 decline since the store of value we just saw central banks in q4 were net sellers of gold

00:54:20.640 gold's market cap is going to continue to contract as the world gets digitized and people literally

00:54:26.240 drop gold and shift capital into a digital store of value and so my guess is that the kind of flippening

00:54:32.960 of gold and bitcoin's market cap is not going to happen at the 10 trillion maybe it's at nine or eight

00:54:37.760 and a half trillion and so you start looking at this very crazy world and you start saying wait a

00:54:42.480 second these are not static numbers right gold's market cap eventually may be two trillion just because

00:54:49.120 people dump gold and they start moving into other assets yeah so let me ask you so my other thought goes

00:54:55.360 to a place where a jamie diamond a uh uh uh warren buffett a dalio take any of these guys that already have a

00:55:03.920 lot of power and influence they sit there and say why would i use bitcoin why don't i come out with

00:55:08.400 my own you know cryptocurrency that uh a uh chase is going to use i have power what about if i bring

00:55:14.400 the smartest guys and they start mining they start doing the same exact 50 25 12 and a half six and a

00:55:18.480 quarter three and an eight and then boom you go all the way down let's do the same thing let's put

00:55:22.320 the same kind of timeline together if the formula work and singapore is using us's approach because it

00:55:28.000 worked why don't we use what worked with bitcoin but let's control it here within b of a let's control it

00:55:32.320 here with chase let's control here with goldman or morgan whoever it is so if binance is the direct

00:55:38.720 competitor to coinbase who would essentially be the direct competitor to bitcoin there there is no

00:55:45.200 competitor to bitcoin right because bitcoin has the only thing that actually matters in this entire game

00:55:52.000 in order to have a non-state currency you need full decentralization if you do not have decentralization

00:55:58.320 you will fail and the reason why i say that is because the government has a monopoly on violence

00:56:03.040 and so if you are jamie diamond and you want to create your own currency which they thought about

00:56:07.280 doing or your facebook and you want to create your own currency which they did right what happens

00:56:12.160 immediately the government says mark zuckerberg come in talk to congress you're not allowed to do

00:56:15.840 this we're going to make all these changes right and and this is a no-go there is no ceo to call

00:56:21.760 in from bitcoin there's no way to shut it down decentralization is the security so the framework

00:56:28.240 i use for this is to ascend to a global reserve currency throughout history there was violent combat

00:56:35.040 one country or one you know kind of geographic location or kingdom went engaged in combat prevailed

00:56:43.040 and then installed their currency as the global reserve currency but in a digital world the most powerful

00:56:50.480 military is not the one that is best offensively it is the one that is best defensively so in the

00:56:56.880 analog world whoever's got the more bombs bullets guns soldiers etc you have the most military might

00:57:01.520 therefore you get the global reserve currency the united states is dominating in that fashion over the

00:57:05.600 last uh couple of centuries or decades in the cyber world if you can simply just keep everyone out

00:57:12.000 from hacking you then you're the most powerful and bitcoin is the strongest computing network in the

00:57:17.280 world there's no computer or computer network in the world stronger than bitcoin it has the best cyber

00:57:22.800 defense it is protecting a trillion plus dollar asset and no one can hack it i don't care what

00:57:28.320 government you are what individual what corporation organization etc you cannot hack bitcoin because it is

00:57:33.920 so decentralized and has so much computing power running it so when you get to that world what ends up

00:57:38.720 happening is it doesn't matter what any government says it doesn't matter what any politician says they

00:57:43.680 can try to regulate individuals or corporations but they cannot shut down the network and that

00:57:48.320 open decentralized network naturally value will flow there and so if jamie diamond wants to start his own

00:57:53.760 coin that's a great idea for him to try but he'll never be successful in getting global adoption

00:57:58.960 because he's always going to have to answer to a government that says jamie right you are not allowed to

00:58:04.880 do this because now you are a direct competition to our nation state currency well let me ask you

00:58:10.080 question doesn't doesn't that kind of make you the buffet of the world that's too cocky to think

00:58:14.960 that somebody else can't come and take you guys like you know what i'm saying does not kind of make

00:58:18.640 you make make it be like america where you become you know complacent too confident to think that

00:58:23.200 somebody else can't come and take you out that's my only thing where i think it's worked so effectively

00:58:27.920 that someone's going to say we're going to do it ourselves and we have a name already

00:58:31.200 where there's a competition so you have to remember that uh there is a hyper diligence uh uh in the

00:58:38.640 bitcoin community right and what i mean by that is every single day millions of people around the

00:58:44.640 world are running the numbers they're constantly looking at is the code executing correctly is there

00:58:50.080 anyone who's trying to do anything nefarious or malicious has anybody gotten too much uh computing

00:58:54.720 power or hash rate on the network like like this hyper diligence around this transparent asset we're

00:58:59.840 talking about an asset that had no venture funding or any sort of you know equity capital contributed

00:59:05.840 it had no team no ceo no founder no marketing team no partnerships team no anything and it got

00:59:12.400 all of these people around the world to build it run it protect it etc and it's grown into a trillion

00:59:18.000 dollar asset and it's all because incentives run the world and a decentralized open system is superior

00:59:23.680 to every other system in the world so here's what here's my greatest fear as jamie diamond and other

00:59:28.080 people start going into this world right i've called it the uh the corporate central uh bank playbook

00:59:33.760 and i've been writing about this for a while uh but i think it's a world where we're going to be

00:59:37.520 very very scared if we enter this jp morgan said that they were going to create jpm coin a while ago

00:59:43.360 and jpm coin was going to be backed one-to-one to the us dollar so they put a bunch of dollars in a

00:59:48.560 bank account right and they would issue a digital dollar or jpm coin and then you would go around you

00:59:52.880 could use this thing uh and they would start with their corporate customers right their partners then

00:59:57.920 eventually they would push it out to retail they get merchants using it etc but then just like

01:00:02.320 the us dollar was de-pegged from gold jamie diamond and jp morgan in the future could just

01:00:06.880 say you know what we're not going to unpeg it from the dollar and now all of a sudden jp morgan is in

01:00:12.400 charge and controls a currency that has you know global or national adoption but they are the central

01:00:17.840 bank they can print as much as they want contract the supply as they want etc so i've been a very big

01:00:22.960 proponent that they're they're uh i'm usually not a very big uh proponent of regulation but there needs

01:00:28.800 to be a conversation immediately that if a financial institution goes ahead and says we are going to

01:00:35.840 create a digital currency and it is backed by a basket of currencies commodities whatever that is

01:00:41.200 okay but you are not allowed to change it in the future so if you tell people it's backed one-to-one

01:00:45.760 to the dollar and then you want to unpeg it in the future now what we're doing is we're really

01:00:50.720 threatening the national currencies because we're going to give corporations the ability to be central

01:00:55.120 banks right that's a world i don't think we want to go into and so when you compare would you rather

01:01:00.160 a decentralized transparent monetary uh system or would you rather jp morgan control the currency

01:01:05.520 yeah because then it goes back to the old school of doing business where one person is so powerful

01:01:09.120 that you're scared of them because they can make any decision that that makes a lot of sense so

01:01:12.720 by the way i'm a math guy you sound like a math guy right you know when you were back in school and

01:01:17.600 you had this one tough formula teacher will write it on the board you're like holy how and then you would

01:01:22.080 sit there your brain is just going crazy because you're trying to really figure this thing out

01:01:26.160 who the hell is this person that figured out the math for bitcoin the 50 25 12 and a half the timing

01:01:33.200 every four years mining how does one even i mean you know i've interviewed craig right before oh i am

01:01:41.520 satoshi and you know when i did that i you have no idea how many hate let me an email people you can't

01:01:46.240 i cannot believe you even have the audacity to have him on everyone knows he's not satoshi all this other

01:01:50.960 person what do you think about when you think about the person forget about asking who do you

01:01:54.640 think it is i'm not asking who do you think it is what do you think about what it takes for a person

01:01:59.440 to create something like this from scratch where a trillion dollar asset today what do you think

01:02:06.640 about the brain it takes to create something like this yeah um there's there's two key components

01:02:12.000 here in my opinion one is uh there's a beauty in this like immaculate conception story right nobody

01:02:17.440 knows who the founder is the pseudonymity uh the way it was introduced all that stuff is actually a

01:02:21.920 key feature of bitcoin i don't want to know who it is and i don't think that it would be necessarily

01:02:26.960 good for bitcoin if people knew i don't think it would be fatal either but i think that having this

01:02:31.280 like nameless or or faceless founder is actually a really strong thing because there's nobody to point

01:02:36.240 at or to talk to or call in front of congress all that kind of stuff so i think that's kind of the

01:02:39.760 first piece is the satoshi nakamoto uh almost like legend is a key component very important the

01:02:46.080 second thing is people don't understand that this is actually not the first iteration of a attempt at

01:02:52.160 a global digital currency right there was bit gold and a couple of other attempts previously and they

01:02:57.200 didn't get it right there was either problems with this double spend problem or other types of issues

01:03:01.840 that popped up and so whoever the individual or group of people who came up with bitcoin they actually

01:03:07.840 had some kind of shoulders to stand on right there was previous attempts and people were able to kind of

01:03:12.240 see okay somebody tried this type of iteration it didn't work well we can figure out a solution to

01:03:17.040 that and so obviously whoever did this whether it's an individual or a group incredibly intelligent

01:03:22.160 i mean the design of bitcoin is beautiful both from uh kind of the monetary policy we've been talking

01:03:26.720 about uh the uh difficulty uh adjustments that occur in the mining system etc but i also think that uh

01:03:34.880 in some crazy crazy world it takes humility it takes a humbleness whoever the individual is or the group

01:03:43.680 to have created something and to not say anything to not go move the you know whatever is 800 000 a

01:03:48.720 million bitcoin or whatever that's in the satoshi wallets that's a lot of money and so when you start

01:03:53.680 to look at this system this is a special person or group to not only have been smart enough to design it

01:03:59.520 to not only have been smart enough to introduce it into the system to also disappear right and

01:04:04.880 to kind of walk away but then also not to financially benefit from it it's pretty incredible when you

01:04:10.480 start to kind of unpack a lot of this and i think that uh over the years satoshi nakamoto will probably

01:04:15.040 end up being seen as one of the most important people or groups in the world and the beauty is we

01:04:18.640 just don't know who it is yeah it's it's really really interesting when you think about that because

01:04:23.600 even you know he may essentially be the richest man in the world today if you think about it if you

01:04:27.360 you just do the math he's probably the richest man in the world today what if he's dead what if she's

01:04:31.600 dead what if he's not around what if no one's ever going to tap into that key where is that money going

01:04:36.320 to sit how is that going to be controlled are they going to try to figure out a way to make it loose

01:04:40.480 so other people can touch touch it i know it's very interesting when you think about that a couple

01:04:44.880 couple other conversations uh three topics and we're done here what do you think about collectibles

01:04:48.880 what do you think about cards you know cards you're seeing a million dollars half a million dollars six

01:04:52.480 five million dollars what do you think about the growth of cards where a lot of the younger

01:04:57.600 generation that's also turned on by crypto by nft is also starting to be turned on by collectible cards

01:05:04.400 look uh a lot of this is macro related i think just in the sense of there's so much quantitative

01:05:08.880 easing there's so much devaluation of currencies uh people are looking around the room and they're

01:05:13.280 saying what's going on i got to get out of the dollar and so they want to go buy stuff now i don't

01:05:17.200 know what percentage of people are buying cards or bitcoin or name your asset uh because of that

01:05:22.240 but there's definitely some element of uh they're running from something the second thing is they

01:05:26.800 all got a ton of money savings rates up personal incomes up right there's just money sloshing around

01:05:31.040 a system and so when you got extra cash uh there's people who just want to go invest and buy things and

01:05:35.360 make more money and kind of do all of that uh the third thing is uh for a long period of time last year

01:05:40.640 there's no sports there's no entertainment and so naturally you know if you were betting on games or

01:05:45.520 doing whatever well what's the next best thing i'm gonna go bet in the stock market it's you know basically

01:05:49.760 the same thing i'm just trying to make money that there's an entertainment factor uh and then the

01:05:53.600 last thing i think is uh kind of this gamification or or an access play right if all of a sudden now

01:06:00.000 on my computer screen i can do this easily uh and i can get a dopamine hit from it what's the difference

01:06:06.560 between me trying to buy a card on ebay turn around and flip it a week later versus me scrolling

01:06:11.040 mindlessly on instagram or twitter it's all dopamine yeah right and and so i think that just naturally

01:06:16.080 like you're seeing this again generational shift these digital natives that are kind of starting

01:06:20.160 to do this uh i think that whether we're talking about nfts uh you're talking about nba top shot

01:06:25.680 you're talking about the actual physical cards uh i think that you're going to get these boom

01:06:29.040 and bust cycles right so like if you zoom out you say hey 25 years from now is this asset class going

01:06:34.080 to be bigger or smaller than it is today definitely bigger in my mind if you say to me okay now draw

01:06:39.440 out the boom and bust cycles between now and then i got no clue right like it's just naturally you're

01:06:43.920 going to get some frothy times you're going to get some drawdowns and so i think people just got

01:06:47.360 to understand are you actually speculating and trying to like day trade whether it's cards

01:06:51.200 collectibles nfts whatever or are you a long-term holder of this and you're going to kind of buy it

01:06:55.520 and never sell it and if you just know who you are just understand the risk you're taking the pros

01:06:59.280 and cons to that strategy and knock yourself out we're on the same page there two last topics one

01:07:04.640 let's talk about trump and let me explain to where i'm going with trump i'm not asking you about your

01:07:08.640 political beliefs or anything like that say you are on uh trump's advisory board okay hypothetically

01:07:16.640 not saying you are i don't know where you lean politically but let's just say you're sitting

01:07:19.120 on trump's advisory board he's been silenced now for what six months twitter suspended him and then

01:07:24.000 everybody else followed suit no one's opened it up he did an interview with his daughter daughter-in-law

01:07:28.400 laura trump was put on facebook taken out within 24 hours so it's not just him trying to speak him

01:07:33.360 speaking on other platforms is also being taken down right last uh four weeks people have been

01:07:39.360 calling me telling me pat check out bitcloud bitcloud bitclaw's behind it then andrew and you know all

01:07:43.920 these people are behind us they took the top 15 000 accounts on twitter and they put it on there and

01:07:47.600 they're waiting in 20 when they come and they collect and all this other stuff and then so i posed a

01:07:52.160 question on uh twitter and i said hey bitcloud uh uh if uh twitter and bitcoin had a baby it would be

01:07:58.800 bitcloud thoughts what are you doing with this scam are you kidding me you have bought into this

01:08:03.920 there's no way in the world you individually can invest into somebody but the idea is very

01:08:08.640 interesting then i got about 100 people that commented that it's about twitch not twitch but

01:08:13.840 twitch t-w-e-t-c-h dot app i believe twitch right i'm gonna put the link below people want to find out

01:08:19.840 more about either one of them so bit bitcloud and why would you want to get on bitcloud because it's

01:08:25.280 decentralized so if anybody wants to tweet you cannot get suspended you cannot do this you can

01:08:29.680 not do that do you think the future of social media to give back the freedom of speech where

01:08:35.200 somebody cannot ban you will also be linked to a blockchain cryptocurrency decentralized type of

01:08:42.560 a platform where the individual can have the freedom to say whatever they want to say do you

01:08:47.280 see social media going in that direction one of my core uh investment thesis is that decentralized

01:08:53.120 products are going to be much larger than centralized products right so a decentralized twitter if done

01:08:57.840 correctly will be much bigger than twitter uh decentralized exchanges on the stock market or

01:09:02.560 cryptocurrency markets will be much bigger than centralized ones um and then the second thing is

01:09:06.480 that uh as part of that theme uh the users of these platforms will have to have a financial stake

01:09:14.080 regardless of what the actual mechanism is in order for them to be successful in the future so kind of

01:09:18.960 decentralization is key and then having uh less of a middleman or kind of a rent seeker and more of

01:09:25.680 a flow through of the financials to the participants in an ecosystem or community so with that as the

01:09:31.040 backdrop uh i don't know if bitcloud is the answer or some variation that somebody else comes up with

01:09:37.120 but i absolutely believe that there is going to be somebody who cracks this idea of uh decentralization

01:09:43.440 both from a kind of a security freedom of speech all that stuff and also a financial incentive

01:09:47.680 how do you bootstrap a network how do you actually create an economy um you know what's the difference

01:09:52.560 let's say between big cloud and uh these decentralized kind of creator coins um versus

01:09:58.640 maybe clubhouse and the ability to pay the creators directly in clubhouse sure there's centralization

01:10:03.200 decentralization ones digital currencies ones kind of more traditional fiat currencies whatever

01:10:07.040 but from a structural standpoint the idea still is like the audience and the participants have an

01:10:11.920 exchange of value one is i'm providing you a service right or kind of goods you're providing me

01:10:17.280 currency and so i think that what we're starting to see is people are playing around with it they're

01:10:21.200 experimenting they're trying to innovate i don't yet know what the solution is and i think that's part

01:10:25.600 of the fun of all of this is trying to figure out who cracks it but i do think that the legacy

01:10:30.560 models that we've seen will be archaic compared to where we end up you know in the coming years

01:10:35.600 yeah i think so as well i think that's the direction that you worked on the voter registration with

01:10:39.280 facebook do you also see this going on because you know voting was a big problematic issue this

01:10:44.240 last time with people some people didn't trust us some people like well it's this even in 2016

01:10:48.240 there was voter fraud 2020 vote for every election we have one side that says there was voter fraud to

01:10:52.960 the other side right do you think in order to have 100 trust in how votes are also taking place it would

01:10:59.920 also be an open decentralized maybe not the fact that's showing which side you voted on because

01:11:05.360 that's private for the individual do you think we can also use the same technology to go in the direction

01:11:10.000 to make voting a little bit more accurate where people on both sides trusted more yeah so i i come

01:11:16.720 from a uh a position of um every extreme in politics is idiotic right like i'm much more of somebody who's

01:11:23.200 just like hey there's like common sense and it's probably truth in between all of these things um but

01:11:27.760 but the one thing that uh when it comes to the voting uh issues that uh just blows my mind is i said to

01:11:33.280 people listen for decades now we have had people with sometimes pencils right literally filling out

01:11:40.400 pieces of paper and we've got millions and millions tens of millions if not hundreds of millions of

01:11:44.080 people all voting uh are you telling me that you think there's been 100 accuracy and i don't care

01:11:48.720 what side benefited didn't benefit whatever of course not right and sometimes there's been really

01:11:53.680 egregious stuff and sometimes there's literally just been mistakes right you can't tell uh or the chat or

01:11:58.720 whatever all this crazy stuff is that's a narrative driven system the narrative has been it's a free

01:12:04.720 fair accurate election right the narrative has been that uh 100 of the vote uh happens and there's no

01:12:11.440 issues there's no anything as we shift from that narrative based world to a world where it comes more

01:12:16.480 to uh the validity and the verifiability and the prove it to me type narrative especially from the

01:12:22.400 younger people we naturally are going to have to use technology to service that need or that desire

01:12:28.160 what the system is i don't know yet how you do it in terms of like you said uh hey you voted but i

01:12:33.040 don't want to see what actually you voted but i want to make sure that it counted in the right bucket

01:12:36.000 like there's people way smarter than me that will figure all of that out but i actually think what

01:12:39.760 becomes so crazy and interesting about this whether it's in financial markets or in what is essentially

01:12:44.480 a political market is it creates a more fair and actual accurate market right so if all of a sudden

01:12:52.320 we could guarantee that everyone's vote actually counted the way they wanted to i think most

01:12:56.400 people would agree like that's a good thing and i'm not saying that that didn't happen or it did

01:13:00.000 happen or whatever but it's just like i think technology is now getting to the point where

01:13:04.080 people are going to start demanding hey i don't want to live in a narrative driven world i want

01:13:08.080 to live in a world where i can verify what's being told to me whether it's from the media whether

01:13:12.160 it's from ceos of corporations whether it's from governments or it's from these decentralized

01:13:16.400 platforms i believe nobody is the default until you prove it to me and i think that you know

01:13:21.120 politics is no uh no different than any other market anthony we all have strengths what do you

01:13:25.600 think yours is i'm about to give you what i think what i force the one of your biggest strength is but

01:13:31.360 i'm curious to know what you think what you've been told i think that uh at a very high level uh i

01:13:36.720 literally just enjoy being myself and so uh i'm just authentic like what you see is what you get if you

01:13:43.040 meet me on the street if you go to dinner with me or we sit here and talk like this is who i am

01:13:47.040 this is stuff i talk about uh i don't really believe that you can live in today's society with

01:13:51.920 like a a public persona or anything like that it's just people really really value the authenticity

01:13:58.400 and it makes it much easier right it's just just be yourself and so i think that i'm willing to do

01:14:02.400 that i do that and uh that tends to be a really big strength especially in a digital age you're an

01:14:07.680 absolute stud of a guy that's going places we're gonna have to see you and hear you for decades and

01:14:12.880 decades and decades to come uh the way it's going you're pretty much going to be in the billionaire

01:14:18.160 category and you know it that smile tells the whole story behind that but outside of that i think one

01:14:22.880 of your strengths is you're an incredible teacher you're very good at explaining topics in a way

01:14:29.520 where i learned today just listening to you the way you break things down it's a very unique gift of

01:14:36.000 yours that you have that i hope the audience enjoyed this interview as much as i enjoyed it folks if

01:14:41.280 you want to hear more from anthony he's got a podcast uh called the pump podcast we're going

01:14:47.120 to put the link below we'll also put his twitter account if you want to go message him on what you

01:14:50.800 took away from today's interview anthony thank you so much for being a guest on valutainment listen

01:14:56.160 thank you so much for having me and i appreciate the kind words but i've learned a ton from you as

01:14:59.600 well so please keep it up because the rest of us are enjoying all these interviews you're doing

01:15:04.240 thank you thank you so much i rarely say this this is probably the best interview i've ever done on

01:15:08.400 the topic of cryptocurrency and bitcoin uh anthony is an incredible teacher you saw me say it right

01:15:14.640 in front of him curious to know what you took away from it comment below also if you enjoyed

01:15:18.080 us i have two interviews for you we mentioned ray dalio if you've never watched an interview with

01:15:21.760 ray dalio click over here and if you've not watched the video i did with medicoven it's another one both of

01:15:26.640 these interviews medicoven is a gentleman that's a crypto billionaire who bought people's every

01:15:31.120 days for 69.3 million dollars if you've not watched that click over here thanks for watching everybody take

01:15:36.400 care bye bye

Valuetainment - April 28, 2021

Bitcoin Expert Predicts A $100 Trillion Market Cap - Anthony Pompliano

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