Valuetainment - Crypto Billionaire Who Bought $69 Million NFT “Everydays”

00:00:00.000 When I was talking to Beeple, he said it was 33 people on the last part of the auction.

00:00:04.460 You guys came at the end with $69 million.

00:00:06.760 How you guys made the decision to want to buy Beeple's everydays on the Christie's auction.

00:00:12.180 Everybody says we both bought it. The money is medical ones.

00:00:15.040 How do you look at money yourself?

00:00:16.840 If you're an asset owner, everything is going up and you think that you're becoming richer.

00:00:21.900 But it means that we've been inflating everything around us.

00:00:26.200 But in this world today, if you don't make $2,000 a month, you are homeless.

00:00:30.860 That's a huge problem.

00:00:32.000 Pretty intense on what you just said, right?

00:00:33.660 I was so afraid because I knew that it's a tax trap.

00:00:37.140 Because once I move into it, it becomes very hard for me to take me off because they want information of all my assets now.

00:00:43.360 In Singapore, I don't even have to say what assets I hold.

00:00:46.520 And America is very different.

00:00:48.140 It's between the rising nations now of the East and the declining nations of the West.

00:00:56.200 So, you know, a lot of people go out there and buy a nice belt.

00:00:58.740 People say, wow, you can't afford to buy a $500 belt.

00:01:01.040 Some people go buy a nice $1,000 shoes.

00:01:03.040 They'll say, wow, you can't afford to buy a $1,000 shoe.

00:01:05.160 Some will buy a Ferrari.

00:01:06.280 You can't afford a Ferrari.

00:01:07.320 Some will buy a million-dollar home.

00:01:08.640 You can't afford to buy a million-dollar home.

00:01:10.860 But only two people were able to afford to buy a $69 million NFT.

00:01:18.540 And they're here today.

00:01:20.040 One of them, rumor has it, is a crypto billionaire due to Ethereum.

00:01:25.460 Maybe we'll get into that.

00:01:27.000 But MetaKoven and Tubador, with their names being Vignesh and Anand,

00:01:33.160 but the two, MetaKoven and Tubador, a few weeks ago,

00:01:36.820 shocked the world by buying Beeple's every day for $69 million.

00:01:42.080 We got a lot of things to talk about today.

00:01:44.040 With that being said, gentlemen, thank you so much for being a guest on Valuetainment.

00:01:47.180 Thank you.

00:01:48.780 Thank you for having us.

00:01:51.300 Yeah.

00:01:51.600 So is it true that the jacket you have on is actually a crypto jacket?

00:01:56.460 Tell us about the jacket you got on.

00:01:58.700 Thanks for noticing.

00:02:00.500 I think that, yeah.

00:02:01.520 Okay, yeah.

00:02:02.100 So this one is from MetaFactory, which is a very crypto-native brand.

00:02:07.360 So it's a brand that produces fashion as a community first thing, right?

00:02:17.620 So it connects artists and it sells these kind of jackets, T-shirts,

00:02:24.760 like sweatpants, even sneakers, all very designer style,

00:02:30.380 but by connecting artists directly to the producer.

00:02:34.300 So it's like a merchandise brand, but the interesting part is, you know,

00:02:39.780 it's arranged as a DAO, which is a decentralized organization.

00:02:44.260 So you could own part of the next interesting brand in the world.

00:02:48.240 And I'm, it's not, again, it's not investment advice,

00:02:52.240 but, you know, I have a little bit, little part of tokens from that company also.

00:02:58.420 I think fashion is getting decentralized.

00:03:00.600 So this is, this was the first jacket, a bomber jacket from them.

00:03:05.620 It's called the Genesis Edition jacket.

00:03:08.620 There are only 40 in the world, you know, like,

00:03:10.580 and it's a, it has a RFID chip and it connects to the blockchain through an NFT.

00:03:16.660 So there's an NFT that points to my address on the Ethereum blockchain

00:03:20.400 and it's a physical piece.

00:03:22.060 So I think this is a very interesting trend here, right?

00:03:24.600 Like a physical, digital combination.

00:03:28.560 So this happening, there are a lot of these things happening with sneakers, etc.

00:03:32.740 Let me ask you, is it an expensive piece or no, the jacket?

00:03:37.860 The good part is I, I paid $600 for it,

00:03:41.080 but I made my money back just on the token appreciation.

00:03:44.080 I got, you know, it's like a, you get back some tokens and that,

00:03:47.840 you know, it goes up.

00:03:48.920 So it's good.

00:03:49.660 Good.

00:03:50.140 So, so, you know, to, to the world, by the way, you,

00:03:52.360 are you guys family or are you guys friends?

00:03:54.640 No, no, I, we have friends.

00:03:56.840 You're friends.

00:03:57.460 Okay.

00:03:57.920 So at what point did you guys make a decision to say,

00:04:02.080 hey, let's buy this every days.

00:04:05.820 And was there a number where you said,

00:04:07.780 we got to stop at this number?

00:04:09.380 Or were you saying we got to own this no matter what?

00:04:11.900 So walk me through how you guys made the decision to want to

00:04:14.500 buy people's every days on the Christie's auction.

00:04:19.840 Sure, sure.

00:04:20.420 I think I would let Toubadour talk about that because he was the,

00:04:24.220 no, he's always the guy who I talk to.

00:04:26.980 So when I, it's like, I, I, I get the idea, but he has this,

00:04:32.760 he pushes me into the decision, right?

00:04:34.320 So he is my conviction.

00:04:35.720 So I let him talk through it.

00:04:37.860 Sure.

00:04:38.200 That's a very gentle way of saying I'm the devil on his shoulder,

00:04:40.780 Patrick.

00:04:41.400 Okay.

00:04:41.820 Nice.

00:04:42.460 Very nice.

00:04:43.460 Pushing him to do stuff.

00:04:47.020 It's been a fascinating journey in the NFT space.

00:04:49.620 And to be clear, while everybody says we both bought it,

00:04:54.500 the money is medical ones.

00:04:56.000 My job is to be a truffle sniffer in this, 0.99

00:04:59.360 in this jungle of unique digital assets.

00:05:02.280 And I've gotten pretty good at it because I love these artists.

00:05:05.920 I love these, these brands of art.

00:05:08.920 And that's, that's kind of how the journey started.

00:05:11.660 And people,

00:05:13.860 we had an experiment with them with the B20 project,

00:05:16.780 which I mean, already discussed with people some time ago,

00:05:20.260 what we came to realize through that experiment.

00:05:22.940 And also, you know,

00:05:23.920 in the way we sort of approached people is that he's practically the artist

00:05:29.060 of our generation, which is the digital native generation, right?

00:05:33.680 And the whole concept of the every days,

00:05:37.340 the 5,000 every days was a massive hopeful metaphor for this generation.

00:05:42.780 I mean, if you look at the art piece from the top left, 0.96

00:05:45.160 begin at it, the first image is pretty crap.

00:05:48.620 But then you trace it all the way through. 0.65

00:05:51.880 You can trace the journey of an artist, his entire lifetime.

00:05:54.780 It's almost spiritual commitment to this particular thing that he does every day,

00:05:59.700 right?

00:06:00.060 His good days, his bad days, his sick days, his healthy days.

00:06:03.180 He's putting out art every day, every day.

00:06:05.360 So what it told us is you can start anywhere,

00:06:08.360 but you work with discipline, with conviction,

00:06:11.760 with a kind of single-minded passion,

00:06:14.480 and you will hit the end of the rainbow,

00:06:17.260 whether it's the end of a year or 10 or 13.

00:06:20.600 So that was a very powerful message for us.

00:06:22.680 And this is why we felt that the space was precious,

00:06:26.120 not just because it was an NFT

00:06:27.520 or just because it was a purely digital form of art,

00:06:31.020 but because of the story that it contained within it.

00:06:35.760 Now, you know, to the people that are not in your world.

00:06:39.060 By the way, when I was talking to people,

00:06:40.920 he said it was 33 people on the last day

00:06:43.440 that were part of the auction,

00:06:45.580 that were going through the whole thing back and forth.

00:06:48.620 And then at the end,

00:06:49.340 obviously you guys came at the end with $69 million.

00:06:51.960 How many people are in the crypto world?

00:06:54.840 Like if there was a number to the crypto community,

00:06:57.200 what number would you put to that?

00:06:58.340 Are you asking for the number of collectors

00:07:02.180 or people in general, the population?

00:07:06.220 Yeah, I would say both,

00:07:07.760 because to me, I would want to know,

00:07:10.200 one, what is the total population of crypto?

00:07:12.640 That's believers, people who believe in crypto.

00:07:15.020 And then the second one would be,

00:07:16.560 how many are in the world of actually buying NFTs

00:07:21.300 like you guys have been buying?

00:07:23.380 If you can break that down.

00:07:24.240 For example, if you were to say,

00:07:25.380 there's about, you know, a million people

00:07:28.360 that own a crypto hypothetically,

00:07:29.960 but there's only 32,000 that are buying,

00:07:32.480 you know, NFTs like we're buying it.

00:07:34.360 Do you guys kind of have that number or no?

00:07:36.340 Sure. Yeah, yeah.

00:07:37.000 It's a hard number to go,

00:07:38.680 but I feel like it's in the,

00:07:40.320 it should be in the tens of millions.

00:07:43.160 So it could be 50, 60 million people

00:07:45.060 who I think are,

00:07:47.860 they just don't own crypto,

00:07:51.140 but, you know, they are more understanding

00:07:54.440 of what's happening here, et cetera.

00:07:56.560 And maybe even a larger population,

00:07:59.820 around 100, 150 million people

00:08:01.880 who hold crypto because, you know,

00:08:04.180 maybe they are in it for the money, right?

00:08:06.640 Like, so that's the number.

00:08:09.460 I don't think it's more than that.

00:08:11.100 But, and NFT space is a very small sub-niche

00:08:14.640 of this, all of this.

00:08:16.140 So not more than, say,

00:08:18.580 say 50,000 people at this point

00:08:20.900 who are, who either hold a NFT

00:08:25.220 or even if you take the total number of artists,

00:08:29.020 it's still going to be around that number.

00:08:31.640 And the collectors who real,

00:08:33.560 have the real money now,

00:08:35.480 that's even smaller.

00:08:36.500 It'll be less than, say, 100.

00:08:39.060 Less than 100. Got it.

00:08:40.360 Okay. So I'm looking at right now

00:08:42.920 where, you know, different articles comes up.

00:08:45.580 Here's one article that says from CBS,

00:08:47.880 there's 100,000 Bitcoin millionaires, right?

00:08:50.320 Anybody that has a million dollar or more in Bitcoin.

00:08:54.280 Do we at this point know

00:08:55.660 how many crypto billionaires are out there or no?

00:08:59.260 So it's a very hard,

00:09:00.740 it's hard to calculate that one

00:09:03.720 because of the pseudonymity, right?

00:09:06.020 Like you're only seeing addresses on the blockchain.

00:09:08.240 And all of that is also an estimate

00:09:11.580 where, you know, you take the rich list.

00:09:13.760 You just go through the blockchain

00:09:14.900 and see who has the maximum of Bitcoins

00:09:17.080 and you estimate that each of these addresses

00:09:19.420 is a different person.

00:09:20.740 And then you're like, yeah,

00:09:22.660 maybe these are the number of millionaires of billionaires.

00:09:26.460 So right now, I don't think

00:09:28.440 that there's over maybe less than 50 billionaires probably.

00:09:35.080 But the point is, we don't know, right?

00:09:38.620 Like we have no idea.

00:09:39.680 It could be different wallets.

00:09:40.740 They could have split their wallets.

00:09:41.880 It could be in more than one blockchain, the assets.

00:09:45.140 But I think it will be much, much larger

00:09:47.100 in the next couple of years

00:09:48.280 as we are going through this boom again.

00:09:50.360 And I had this blog post or a tweet

00:09:54.660 from Balaji Srinivasan,

00:09:57.080 who's a very important person in our industry.

00:10:00.020 He was going for 2,000

00:10:02.040 as the number of billionaires

00:10:04.320 when Bitcoin would hit a thousand,

00:10:06.540 sorry, a million dollars, right?

00:10:09.280 Say that one more time.

00:10:10.320 2,000 billionaires?

00:10:11.700 So there'll be 2,000 billionaires

00:10:13.660 when Bitcoin hits a million dollars.

00:10:17.400 Oh, wow.

00:10:18.000 I just understand what you, okay.

00:10:19.360 So when Bitcoin hits a million dollars,

00:10:22.720 there's going to be 2,000 billionaires,

00:10:25.140 which means the world currently has,

00:10:27.260 as of 2018, it was 2,200 billionaires.

00:10:32.580 That means 50% of all billionaires in the world

00:10:35.280 are going to be crypto billionaires.

00:10:37.640 Now we are talking, yes.

00:10:39.540 Yeah, now we're talking.

00:10:40.840 Okay.

00:10:41.440 So that means if it goes the way it does,

00:10:44.540 any of the 50 current billionaires

00:10:46.880 who hang on to what they have,

00:10:49.380 whether it's Ethereum or let's just say Bitcoin,

00:10:52.480 the current billionaires,

00:10:54.260 that means there's going to be a few worth 100

00:10:56.880 and potentially one could even pass up

00:11:00.460 some of the current richest people

00:11:01.820 in the world that we have.

00:11:02.720 Is that an accurate assumption?

00:11:04.600 In the next decade,

00:11:07.420 I think Satoshi,

00:11:08.440 who's never going to touch his Bitcoin,

00:11:10.980 is going to be one of the pseudonymous billionaires,

00:11:15.040 right?

00:11:15.320 And probably the richest person in the world.

00:11:17.380 It'll be hard to beat him.

00:11:19.880 And he's not going to touch his Bitcoin,

00:11:21.880 I suppose.

00:11:22.980 We don't even know whether he's still around.

00:11:25.700 But, you know,

00:11:27.160 he has a very important account

00:11:28.760 and there'll be a lot more people who,

00:11:32.060 these people are ideologically,

00:11:34.120 you know,

00:11:34.660 like bought into this movement.

00:11:37.300 So in a way,

00:11:38.140 I don't know if they're going to buy,

00:11:39.440 like sell out and move into another asset too.

00:11:41.520 So they're going to stay, right?

00:11:43.480 So,

00:11:44.160 and yeah,

00:11:44.860 it's going to be very interesting

00:11:46.280 the next decade.

00:11:48.140 By the way,

00:11:48.540 do you guys at this point have an assumption

00:11:50.080 who Satoshi is or no?

00:11:51.300 You're not really clear who it is.

00:11:52.940 I really like this.

00:11:56.780 Yeah, yeah.

00:11:57.460 Go ahead.

00:11:58.560 I mean,

00:11:58.720 the truth is we don't care who he is.

00:12:00.360 That's the beauty of it.

00:12:01.620 I mean,

00:12:01.880 the origin story is a bit of a legend,

00:12:04.240 isn't it?

00:12:04.720 And in a way,

00:12:05.620 that's what gives it,

00:12:06.720 gives Bitcoin the power that it has.

00:12:08.840 Because when it comes to programmability

00:12:11.200 or composability,

00:12:12.220 it's not the most smart cryptocurrency there is.

00:12:16.340 It's not.

00:12:17.060 It's not the most smart cryptocurrency there is.

00:12:19.360 It's not.

00:12:20.280 Tell me why.

00:12:21.020 It's very simple.

00:12:23.640 It's like basic.

00:12:24.880 It's like,

00:12:26.000 it's almost like a single-celled microorganism,

00:12:29.280 but it is the first

00:12:30.440 and is the most powerful

00:12:32.040 because of that origin story.

00:12:34.460 And that's kind of the biggest appeal, right?

00:12:36.800 I mean,

00:12:37.660 think of it this way.

00:12:38.680 Instead of calling it a cryptocurrency

00:12:39.800 or a token or a coin,

00:12:42.320 imagine this sort of,

00:12:43.720 the opening of a documentary

00:12:44.880 from the ashes of the financial ruin of 2008

00:12:48.460 emerged this new alternative

00:12:50.820 created pseudonymously

00:12:53.360 and then the creator

00:12:55.220 disappears off into the sunset,

00:12:57.140 never claiming credit

00:12:58.020 or the upside from his creation.

00:13:00.060 So that's the legend.

00:13:01.380 And that's what gives it its power.

00:13:03.300 So if tomorrow

00:13:04.000 somebody like

00:13:05.560 Toubadour,

00:13:06.820 looking like me,

00:13:08.500 lands up in the show

00:13:10.420 and says,

00:13:10.940 I'm Satoshi.

00:13:11.520 You don't care.

00:13:16.020 Yeah,

00:13:16.200 you're so okay.

00:13:17.560 Yeah,

00:13:17.880 got it.

00:13:18.700 Now,

00:13:18.920 the only reason is I've had,

00:13:19.920 I think it's Craig Wright.

00:13:20.900 I had Craig Wright on

00:13:21.800 and,

00:13:22.260 you know,

00:13:22.920 he claimed he was Satoshi

00:13:23.980 and I got to tell you,

00:13:25.000 I cannot tell you

00:13:26.280 how many hate emails

00:13:27.500 I got from people

00:13:29.420 around the world

00:13:30.740 saying,

00:13:32.040 what are you talking about?

00:13:33.380 This is not Satoshi.

00:13:34.440 It was pretty interesting

00:13:35.200 seeing that taking place.

00:13:36.160 So let's go back to it.

00:13:37.060 So let's go back to it.

00:13:38.320 So you talked about

00:13:39.640 that the moment Bitcoin

00:13:40.820 hits a million,

00:13:41.560 there's going to be

00:13:41.940 2,000 billionaires.

00:13:43.140 We have currently

00:13:43.560 2,200 billionaires.

00:13:45.240 So nearly 40 to 50%

00:13:47.480 of billionaires

00:13:48.060 say by whenever

00:13:49.080 it hits a million,

00:13:50.320 it's going to be

00:13:51.100 from the crypto wealth.

00:13:52.720 But then you said something.

00:13:54.020 You said there's an element

00:13:54.980 of crypto investors

00:13:57.680 don't sell.

00:13:59.180 I saw a part where

00:14:00.780 for a guy like you

00:14:02.140 that's made your money,

00:14:04.260 specifically in the crypto side,

00:14:06.560 of course,

00:14:07.080 we'll get into the Bitcoin ATMs

00:14:08.560 and what you,

00:14:09.640 what you guys did with that.

00:14:11.180 But you don't own any stocks.

00:14:13.820 You don't own any cars.

00:14:15.480 You don't own a house.

00:14:17.360 You mean,

00:14:17.640 are you literally

00:14:18.660 90% of your money

00:14:21.200 is, you know,

00:14:21.920 all in crypto?

00:14:23.940 99.

00:14:24.640 Yeah, 99.

00:14:26.160 99% of all your money

00:14:27.580 is in crypto.

00:14:28.580 Yeah, yeah.

00:14:29.120 Personally, yeah.

00:14:30.740 So it's funny

00:14:31.540 when you say that.

00:14:33.060 You'll have a lot of people

00:14:33.820 that will say,

00:14:34.280 well, that's not

00:14:34.660 proper diversification.

00:14:35.980 Why are you not diversified?

00:14:37.200 But years ago,

00:14:38.460 I think it was either

00:14:39.700 Andrew Carnegie

00:14:40.640 or J. Paul Getty

00:14:41.740 that said,

00:14:42.540 do not,

00:14:42.960 do not,

00:14:44.620 the quote about,

00:14:46.300 you know,

00:14:46.540 put all your eggs

00:14:47.480 in one basket.

00:14:48.300 Just make sure

00:14:49.140 nobody touches it

00:14:50.400 because that's how

00:14:51.660 you make incredible wealth.

00:14:53.540 You know,

00:14:53.740 you could lose it all

00:14:54.540 if something happens to,

00:14:55.460 but at the same time,

00:14:56.060 you have the biggest upside.

00:14:56.860 Why are you 99%

00:14:59.260 all crypto?

00:15:00.680 I'm a fan of

00:15:01.560 Andrew Carnegie.

00:15:03.320 Okay.

00:15:03.600 Right.

00:15:04.340 And so I'm not an investor,

00:15:06.960 right?

00:15:07.180 Like I'm not,

00:15:08.480 I'm not the person

00:15:09.600 who's doing something else

00:15:10.640 in life

00:15:11.100 and doing this

00:15:12.340 on the side,

00:15:13.260 right?

00:15:13.540 So this

00:15:14.080 is very different

00:15:15.620 from my perspective

00:15:16.700 and how I look at it.

00:15:18.820 So I feel like

00:15:20.040 the whole crypto

00:15:20.740 is a startup.

00:15:21.700 So if you take

00:15:22.520 Bezos,

00:15:24.340 for example,

00:15:24.880 or Elon Musk,

00:15:26.400 90% of his wealth

00:15:27.520 is in Tesla,

00:15:28.580 right?

00:15:28.960 So it's like,

00:15:29.900 it's like saying

00:15:30.840 I am part of this industry

00:15:32.920 and I think

00:15:33.760 I'm,

00:15:34.680 I have a,

00:15:35.560 I have a piece

00:15:37.160 of the pie,

00:15:38.000 right?

00:15:38.500 And so I will do

00:15:39.440 everything possible.

00:15:40.920 I have the skin

00:15:41.860 in the game

00:15:42.320 and my incentives

00:15:43.460 are aligned in the way

00:15:44.720 so that I can

00:15:45.980 ride with the moment.

00:15:47.760 And I also believe

00:15:48.540 in the moment

00:15:49.040 because as,

00:15:50.140 as Tuber was talking

00:15:51.120 about the picture,

00:15:52.160 the 5,000,

00:15:52.820 right?

00:15:53.140 It's also the story

00:15:54.260 of crypto,

00:15:54.880 and the story

00:15:55.480 of me,

00:15:56.220 right?

00:15:56.860 Where how,

00:15:58.000 you know,

00:15:58.380 like in 2007

00:15:59.960 when people started

00:16:01.080 the everyday,

00:16:02.100 I had no money.

00:16:03.620 I had no money

00:16:04.280 to buy a laptop,

00:16:05.180 right?

00:16:05.540 So this

00:16:06.440 is very moving

00:16:08.060 to me

00:16:08.480 and it's a story

00:16:09.220 of crypto itself.

00:16:10.460 I don't want

00:16:11.200 to take too much

00:16:11.860 credit in it.

00:16:12.820 I'm happy

00:16:13.600 and grateful

00:16:14.260 that I could,

00:16:15.740 I could see that

00:16:16.780 and you know,

00:16:17.700 like this could have

00:16:18.620 gone any,

00:16:19.940 in any way,

00:16:21.520 but I would still

00:16:22.860 be okay with it

00:16:24.120 if this didn't work

00:16:25.680 out because,

00:16:26.340 you know,

00:16:26.600 it's like I would

00:16:27.620 have tried something

00:16:28.300 else and no one

00:16:29.740 can take away

00:16:30.300 my experience,

00:16:31.140 my knowledge,

00:16:31.640 my connections,

00:16:32.280 right?

00:16:32.760 So the good part

00:16:33.980 is I've stayed

00:16:34.840 with it and I believe

00:16:35.960 that I'm still

00:16:36.880 very active.

00:16:38.000 I'm very young.

00:16:39.160 I'm 32 now,

00:16:40.960 probably in a few

00:16:42.400 years to come.

00:16:43.340 I'll think about

00:16:44.280 what diversification

00:16:45.400 means to me,

00:16:46.520 right?

00:16:46.760 and think about,

00:16:48.620 you know,

00:16:48.940 like what physical

00:16:49.940 means to me

00:16:50.620 because that's also

00:16:51.640 the other aspect.

00:16:52.500 Now,

00:16:53.020 you're talking to

00:16:53.820 a very different

00:16:54.980 person from a

00:16:55.720 different side of

00:16:56.420 the world

00:16:56.820 and there's a lot

00:16:58.120 of other issues

00:16:59.620 we go through

00:17:00.440 as people

00:17:01.760 where the government

00:17:03.180 is not the same

00:17:04.740 as, you know,

00:17:05.560 like the government

00:17:06.580 of the US

00:17:07.260 or we don't get

00:17:08.880 the same kind

00:17:09.380 of property rights,

00:17:10.540 right?

00:17:10.860 So there are a lot

00:17:11.540 of other things

00:17:12.220 that go into

00:17:12.880 my thinking

00:17:14.300 of what

00:17:15.720 investment means

00:17:16.680 and yeah,

00:17:18.220 so all these

00:17:18.840 things together,

00:17:19.760 it'll take a long

00:17:20.760 time to explore

00:17:21.500 all of those

00:17:22.220 elements,

00:17:23.120 right?

00:17:23.460 But it's not a

00:17:24.400 recommendation I'm

00:17:25.280 giving to everyone

00:17:25.960 saying that,

00:17:26.580 oh,

00:17:26.720 put all your money

00:17:27.540 into crypto,

00:17:28.720 right?

00:17:29.380 For me,

00:17:29.820 it's okay

00:17:30.180 because I live

00:17:31.240 in it

00:17:31.620 and I have

00:17:33.440 the feeling

00:17:34.220 and whenever

00:17:35.020 crypto goes up

00:17:35.940 and down,

00:17:36.680 people ask me,

00:17:37.280 how do you feel?

00:17:38.240 If I think about

00:17:39.180 the price every day,

00:17:40.620 I will have a heart

00:17:41.580 attack every day.

00:17:42.880 Right?

00:17:43.480 So I don't think

00:17:44.640 about the price.

00:17:45.360 I don't live

00:17:46.040 in the graphs.

00:17:48.300 I take a step

00:17:49.380 back and I'm

00:17:50.140 quite peaceful.

00:17:51.860 Yeah,

00:17:52.220 it's very obvious

00:17:53.120 and it's felt

00:17:53.760 by the way,

00:17:54.340 you know,

00:17:54.560 kudos to you.

00:17:55.620 Your personality

00:17:56.580 and temperament

00:17:58.000 is one that's

00:17:59.460 very interesting.

00:18:00.100 By the way,

00:18:00.400 the picture behind

00:18:01.160 you that you have

00:18:02.380 there,

00:18:02.560 the picture behind

00:18:03.220 you,

00:18:03.420 those pictures,

00:18:04.140 tell us about

00:18:05.020 the pictures

00:18:05.460 that you have

00:18:05.860 behind you.

00:18:07.000 Sure,

00:18:07.480 sure.

00:18:07.720 So this is

00:18:08.240 Hal Finney,

00:18:09.260 the next best

00:18:10.080 thing to Satoshi.

00:18:11.420 So he's the guy

00:18:12.120 who we know.

00:18:13.920 He was the guy

00:18:14.980 who Satoshi

00:18:15.600 used to speak

00:18:16.360 to over forums

00:18:17.400 and email

00:18:18.260 and he was

00:18:20.420 almost the second

00:18:21.460 important person,

00:18:23.800 right?

00:18:24.040 Like,

00:18:24.760 yeah,

00:18:25.040 like the second

00:18:25.700 person who landed

00:18:26.420 on the moon.

00:18:26.900 so he's the guy

00:18:28.000 and we have

00:18:28.680 a picture of him

00:18:29.360 so it's,

00:18:30.040 it's,

00:18:30.100 it's,

00:18:30.360 I like to,

00:18:31.460 I like to think

00:18:32.600 about him.

00:18:33.020 You have a picture

00:18:34.040 with him?

00:18:34.300 No,

00:18:34.420 no,

00:18:34.520 I mean,

00:18:35.200 I mean,

00:18:35.600 he's no more.

00:18:37.160 He's no more.

00:18:38.100 So I've not had

00:18:39.100 the chance to meet

00:18:39.800 him but I mean,

00:18:41.060 it's at least

00:18:41.760 we know his face,

00:18:42.640 right?

00:18:42.880 And I think

00:18:43.460 people should know

00:18:44.440 his face because

00:18:45.140 we only talk

00:18:45.660 about Satoshi.

00:18:46.460 He's an important

00:18:47.400 person.

00:18:48.540 And yeah,

00:18:49.400 here I have

00:18:50.420 Warren Buffet

00:18:50.980 even though he

00:18:52.080 hates Bitcoin,

00:18:53.200 I hate,

00:18:53.640 I really love him.

00:18:54.580 I agree

00:18:57.000 to disagree

00:18:57.540 with him.

00:18:59.780 And this is

00:19:00.880 Abdul Kalam

00:19:01.520 who's,

00:19:01.860 who's my

00:19:02.460 inspiration

00:19:04.060 growing up.

00:19:04.840 He was,

00:19:05.060 he's a,

00:19:05.660 he's a scientist.

00:19:06.660 He's a rocket man

00:19:07.400 of India.

00:19:08.380 He's the guy

00:19:09.020 who made,

00:19:09.980 he,

00:19:10.500 who made

00:19:11.340 the first rockets

00:19:12.440 that,

00:19:12.980 that India launched

00:19:14.600 and he also

00:19:16.280 rose to become

00:19:18.440 the president

00:19:18.920 of the country,

00:19:20.040 right?

00:19:20.740 And so he's

00:19:21.180 a huge inspiration.

00:19:22.260 He started

00:19:22.620 as a fisherman.

00:19:23.560 He comes

00:19:23.940 from a fisherman

00:19:24.580 home and

00:19:26.260 his path

00:19:27.760 is very inspiring

00:19:28.500 and very righteous

00:19:29.560 too.

00:19:30.340 And the guy

00:19:30.680 in the middle

00:19:31.160 is my model

00:19:32.040 compass.

00:19:32.940 He's called

00:19:33.360 Thirvaldavar.

00:19:34.560 He's 2,500

00:19:35.560 years old.

00:19:36.800 And so he,

00:19:37.420 he wrote this

00:19:38.000 beautiful book

00:19:38.620 called Thirukural

00:19:39.620 which has

00:19:40.460 1,337 word

00:19:43.340 poems.

00:19:44.820 And it's a,

00:19:45.860 it's the dictionary

00:19:46.600 of life.

00:19:47.360 So you want to

00:19:48.160 understand friendship.

00:19:49.380 You just,

00:19:50.000 you know,

00:19:50.200 like a dictionary,

00:19:51.000 you,

00:19:51.280 you go there

00:19:52.040 and you get

00:19:52.820 something.

00:19:53.120 So it gives

00:19:53.640 me a lot

00:19:53.980 of clarity

00:19:54.500 when I need

00:19:55.460 it in my

00:19:55.880 life.

00:19:56.900 You're a very

00:19:57.560 deep guy,

00:19:58.180 by the way.

00:19:58.660 Good for you.

00:19:59.320 There's a lot

00:19:59.740 of depth

00:20:00.160 in your,

00:20:00.780 in your character.

00:20:02.160 That's very

00:20:02.520 impressive.

00:20:03.260 You know,

00:20:03.520 you said

00:20:03.820 something earlier

00:20:04.460 about the

00:20:06.720 government.

00:20:07.280 You said,

00:20:07.940 are you,

00:20:08.500 are you currently

00:20:09.180 in India

00:20:10.000 or where are

00:20:10.520 you currently

00:20:10.900 at?

00:20:11.140 I've heard

00:20:11.420 you talk

00:20:11.800 about Singapore.

00:20:12.500 I've heard

00:20:12.900 you talk

00:20:13.260 about different

00:20:13.600 places.

00:20:13.920 Where are you

00:20:14.340 currently at?

00:20:15.660 I'm in,

00:20:16.140 I'm in

00:20:16.620 Singapore.

00:20:17.460 Okay.

00:20:17.760 If you want

00:20:19.940 to talk about

00:20:20.400 you're in

00:20:23.300 India or

00:20:23.680 you're also

00:20:24.300 in Singapore?

00:20:25.120 I'm in

00:20:25.440 India.

00:20:26.020 You're in

00:20:26.260 India.

00:20:26.660 So what do

00:20:27.120 you think

00:20:27.320 about the

00:20:27.660 Reuters article

00:20:28.420 that came

00:20:28.940 up a few

00:20:29.980 days ago?

00:20:30.860 I'm sure

00:20:31.160 you saw

00:20:31.640 it.

00:20:31.920 This was

00:20:32.300 actually,

00:20:33.640 it was two

00:20:34.100 weeks ago.

00:20:35.360 India to

00:20:35.880 propose

00:20:36.360 cryptocurrency

00:20:37.000 ban,

00:20:37.780 penalizing 0.64

00:20:38.400 miners,

00:20:39.720 trade source.

00:20:40.680 This was

00:20:40.960 in New

00:20:41.260 Delhi,

00:20:41.800 Mumbai.

00:20:42.880 India will 0.98

00:20:43.240 propose

00:20:43.540 banning

00:20:43.960 cryptocurrency

00:20:44.420 and fining

00:20:46.480 anyone training

00:20:47.340 in the

00:20:47.680 country or

00:20:48.200 even holding

00:20:48.820 such digital

00:20:49.560 assets.

00:20:50.140 A senior

00:20:50.560 government

00:20:50.960 official told

00:20:51.620 Reuters in

00:20:52.760 a potential

00:20:53.220 blow to

00:20:53.620 millions of

00:20:54.080 investors piling

00:20:54.780 into the

00:20:55.240 red-hot asset

00:20:56.360 class.

00:20:57.280 What do you

00:20:57.860 think about it

00:20:58.440 and can they

00:20:58.900 actually do it?

00:20:59.720 Is it creating

00:21:00.220 any kind of

00:21:00.680 momentum in

00:21:01.140 India?

00:21:02.140 Okay.

00:21:03.120 This feels

00:21:03.840 like deja vu,

00:21:04.640 Patrick,

00:21:04.940 because it's

00:21:05.380 happened a

00:21:05.780 couple of

00:21:06.160 years ago.

00:21:08.120 It's merely

00:21:08.700 an overcorrection

00:21:11.780 at this point

00:21:12.420 because there

00:21:13.360 are obviously

00:21:13.860 a lot of

00:21:14.440 pitfalls when

00:21:15.840 it comes to

00:21:16.300 crypto,

00:21:16.580 mainly because

00:21:17.300 Bitcoin is

00:21:19.600 bad at

00:21:20.000 marketing.

00:21:20.580 It doesn't

00:21:21.360 belong to

00:21:21.760 any single

00:21:22.200 person.

00:21:22.700 The only

00:21:23.020 things that

00:21:23.580 make it to

00:21:24.160 the news

00:21:24.540 are the

00:21:26.040 scams or

00:21:26.900 the crashes

00:21:28.720 or the

00:21:30.180 hacks. 0.51

00:21:31.280 So that's

00:21:32.180 the issue.

00:21:32.580 But that

00:21:33.240 said,

00:21:33.800 India is a 1.00

00:21:35.260 very ambitious

00:21:35.760 country.

00:21:36.960 So I have

00:21:37.280 a lot of

00:21:37.600 faith in

00:21:37.980 that ambition.

00:21:39.760 And

00:21:39.880 technically we

00:21:40.920 missed the

00:21:42.080 IT revolution.

00:21:43.800 We were

00:21:44.060 relegated to

00:21:44.780 the back

00:21:45.240 office for

00:21:46.320 all practical

00:21:46.880 reasons.

00:21:47.540 I think this

00:21:47.920 is another

00:21:48.260 opportunity for

00:21:49.020 us.

00:21:49.360 And I

00:21:49.740 don't think

00:21:50.480 we will

00:21:51.760 make the

00:21:52.260 same mistake

00:21:52.720 again.

00:21:53.100 At least I

00:21:53.400 hope not.

00:21:54.220 Yeah, you

00:21:54.500 know, it's

00:21:55.100 the number

00:21:56.400 seven economy

00:21:57.040 in the world

00:21:57.460 today, number

00:21:57.960 eight, seven,

00:21:58.620 six, you're

00:21:59.260 right there.

00:22:00.100 And when I

00:22:01.220 went to

00:22:01.540 Mumbai and

00:22:03.300 I spoke at

00:22:03.920 IIT with

00:22:05.580 Divyank

00:22:06.040 Turakia 0.98

00:22:06.700 Arundhati

00:22:08.300 Bachari, I

00:22:08.860 don't know if

00:22:09.120 I'm even

00:22:09.400 saying the

00:22:09.840 name correctly.

00:22:10.660 She was a

00:22:11.060 former chairman

00:22:12.240 of State Bank

00:22:13.200 of India and

00:22:14.500 we were

00:22:14.780 sitting there

00:22:15.240 talking, the

00:22:16.620 desire to

00:22:17.620 want to

00:22:17.960 develop things

00:22:18.960 and create

00:22:19.880 with these

00:22:20.380 young kids,

00:22:21.060 you're looking

00:22:21.480 in their

00:22:21.860 eyes, you 0.78

00:22:22.340 see the

00:22:22.700 fire in

00:22:23.280 their eyes,

00:22:23.700 you don't

00:22:23.960 see that

00:22:24.820 kind of

00:22:25.160 fire in a

00:22:26.900 lot of

00:22:27.160 places.

00:22:27.520 They're just

00:22:28.000 so hungry to

00:22:29.060 want to do

00:22:29.480 something with

00:22:29.980 it.

00:22:30.120 It was very

00:22:30.440 interesting getting

00:22:31.860 the spirit when

00:22:32.580 I was in

00:22:32.900 India to see

00:22:33.460 that taking

00:22:33.820 place.

00:22:34.120 So, so

00:22:35.020 Vignesh,

00:22:36.160 Medha

00:22:36.640 Colvin, did

00:22:37.160 you, did

00:22:38.060 you move

00:22:38.540 from India

00:22:39.060 to Singapore

00:22:39.840 or are

00:22:40.640 you from

00:22:41.700 Singapore?

00:22:42.420 Did you

00:22:42.660 grow up in

00:22:43.080 Singapore?

00:22:44.140 No, no, I

00:22:44.640 grew up in

00:22:45.060 India.

00:22:45.540 Actually, I

00:22:46.080 grew up in

00:22:46.440 a small town

00:22:47.120 in India,

00:22:49.740 not a city

00:22:51.360 and yeah, I

00:22:52.640 slowly moved

00:22:53.480 from India

00:22:54.220 to UAE,

00:22:56.160 studied there

00:22:56.960 for a while

00:22:57.360 and then to

00:22:57.940 Canada.

00:22:58.660 I spent some

00:22:59.180 time there and

00:23:00.100 now I live in

00:23:00.840 Singapore for,

00:23:01.880 like I've lived

00:23:02.560 here for a few

00:23:03.200 years now and

00:23:04.580 all like except

00:23:06.380 the Dubai

00:23:06.880 thing, everything

00:23:07.640 crypto.

00:23:08.540 right?

00:23:09.140 Yeah.

00:23:09.820 Why Singapore?

00:23:13.140 Definitely

00:23:13.700 because Singapore

00:23:15.360 is one of the

00:23:16.160 best countries

00:23:17.020 to live in

00:23:18.280 if you are

00:23:18.940 in crypto

00:23:19.360 right now,

00:23:20.260 right?

00:23:20.500 There are a few

00:23:20.960 countries which

00:23:21.560 are very positive

00:23:23.240 and favorable

00:23:23.960 and very open

00:23:25.760 about it.

00:23:26.380 So in terms

00:23:28.140 of regulations,

00:23:29.360 guidelines and

00:23:30.340 taxes also,

00:23:31.900 there is also

00:23:32.760 this, I don't

00:23:33.840 know, like

00:23:34.720 there's this whole

00:23:35.560 POS movement

00:23:36.900 going on which

00:23:37.560 is like,

00:23:38.540 moving away

00:23:39.320 from the

00:23:39.800 mining,

00:23:41.180 like the

00:23:42.040 electricity

00:23:42.880 intensive mining

00:23:44.400 to, you know,

00:23:45.160 like just mining

00:23:46.360 through your stake,

00:23:47.580 right, for the

00:23:48.820 blockchain.

00:23:49.220 So that movement,

00:23:50.680 what has happened

00:23:51.360 is, you know,

00:23:52.300 you can be part of

00:23:53.220 that and be a

00:23:53.960 miner and

00:23:55.000 Singapore allows

00:23:55.780 you to, you

00:23:56.300 know, as an

00:23:56.760 individual or

00:23:57.600 even a company,

00:23:59.940 if it's not a

00:24:00.600 business, you

00:24:01.360 don't get, you

00:24:02.140 know, taxed on

00:24:02.960 those kind of

00:24:03.940 gains, etc.

00:24:04.500 and capital

00:24:06.680 gains is really

00:24:07.300 nice.

00:24:07.820 They're already,

00:24:08.480 like there's no

00:24:09.020 capital gains, I

00:24:09.640 mean, and

00:24:10.620 there's no capital

00:24:11.660 gains in Singapore.

00:24:12.940 No, no capital

00:24:13.540 gains, no.

00:24:14.660 And income

00:24:15.700 taxes is very

00:24:16.720 favorable.

00:24:17.360 It's 22% at the

00:24:18.920 highest level.

00:24:19.900 So, you know,

00:24:21.020 and I don't have

00:24:22.020 a lot of income,

00:24:22.920 so it's good for

00:24:24.360 me.

00:24:24.560 So, so in

00:24:26.140 other words,

00:24:27.380 so in other

00:24:30.200 words, are you

00:24:30.980 a, you must be

00:24:32.760 a very much of

00:24:33.840 a pro-capitalism

00:24:34.840 guy.

00:24:36.000 Definitely.

00:24:36.660 I'm very, I'm

00:24:38.720 not libertarian.

00:24:40.040 I think I'm

00:24:40.480 center, right?

00:24:41.740 Like, I'm very

00:24:42.580 pro-capitalist.

00:24:43.640 Yeah.

00:24:44.160 Very cool.

00:24:45.000 So, so we've

00:24:46.500 covered a lot of

00:24:47.120 different things,

00:24:47.640 by the way.

00:24:48.060 You know, it's

00:24:48.800 the best part

00:24:49.720 about you is

00:24:50.360 when you're

00:24:51.600 talking to folks

00:24:52.740 and you see a

00:24:53.380 lot of the

00:24:53.700 interviews, just

00:24:54.180 why'd you buy

00:24:54.880 it?

00:24:55.060 Why'd you buy

00:24:55.620 it?

00:24:55.780 Why'd you buy

00:24:56.340 it?

00:24:56.460 But then when

00:24:56.900 you go deeper

00:24:57.560 into your

00:24:58.780 belief system,

00:24:59.520 who you guys

00:25:00.040 are, there's

00:25:00.520 a lot of

00:25:00.980 strong, you

00:25:02.340 know, you

00:25:02.680 guys are real

00:25:03.280 true believers.

00:25:04.040 So walk me

00:25:04.980 through this

00:25:05.520 idea of, you

00:25:08.260 know, of

00:25:09.040 virtual real

00:25:10.100 estate, virtual

00:25:11.220 museum, virtual

00:25:12.580 like, are you,

00:25:14.060 are you seeing

00:25:14.840 that?

00:25:15.460 Because I know

00:25:15.980 you guys have

00:25:16.440 created some

00:25:16.900 kind of a

00:25:17.220 virtual museum.

00:25:17.900 Why don't you

00:25:18.500 start on that

00:25:19.060 first and then

00:25:19.520 I'll ask my

00:25:19.960 follow-up question

00:25:20.580 to it.

00:25:21.120 You have a

00:25:21.500 virtual museum

00:25:22.160 and some

00:25:22.420 virtual real

00:25:22.880 estate.

00:25:23.220 Sure, sure.

00:25:24.900 So this whole

00:25:25.960 journey of

00:25:27.100 NFTs and

00:25:28.680 virtual world, I'm

00:25:29.940 a huge fan of,

00:25:31.120 you know, this

00:25:32.280 idea of the

00:25:33.740 metaverse, right,

00:25:34.720 in general.

00:25:36.560 Definitely, I

00:25:38.060 come from that

00:25:39.260 world of snow

00:25:39.900 crash, you know,

00:25:40.880 like ready play

00:25:41.600 one, that kind

00:25:42.700 of inspiration.

00:25:43.740 I don't think

00:25:45.520 I don't think the

00:25:45.640 world needs to

00:25:46.120 be that dystopian

00:25:47.560 for, you

00:25:48.380 know, to, for

00:25:49.300 ready play or

00:25:49.800 want to happen.

00:25:50.960 But the

00:25:51.180 interesting part

00:25:51.940 is that the,

00:25:53.800 like, instead of

00:25:54.620 thinking about it

00:25:55.360 as a, as a,

00:25:57.000 you know, like a

00:25:58.800 replacement of the

00:25:59.640 physical world or

00:26:00.340 something, it's, it's

00:26:01.580 a borderless world,

00:26:02.620 right?

00:26:02.800 Like a borderless

00:26:03.700 world of expression

00:26:04.960 where there is very

00:26:06.500 little censorship

00:26:08.040 and, and things

00:26:10.320 are unconfisticatable,

00:26:12.020 right?

00:26:12.300 So from that

00:26:13.740 angle of, of

00:26:15.000 being, see, it's,

00:26:16.600 it's a new

00:26:17.120 Berlin, it's a 0.97

00:26:18.220 new street,

00:26:19.180 right?

00:26:19.640 So historically

00:26:21.760 artists that

00:26:23.940 were able to

00:26:24.860 talk, talk to

00:26:26.040 people directly

00:26:26.800 and over time

00:26:28.100 different countries

00:26:29.720 have very different

00:26:30.800 perspective on it,

00:26:31.780 right?

00:26:32.020 Like I would say

00:26:33.120 who owns the

00:26:34.040 wall defines what

00:26:36.260 kind of society

00:26:37.060 you're living

00:26:37.960 in.

00:26:38.480 So if you go

00:26:39.380 to say, I

00:26:40.380 don't know about

00:26:40.760 the US, but I

00:26:42.000 don't know who

00:26:42.360 can paint on the

00:26:43.200 wall, right?

00:26:44.140 Maybe graffiti is

00:26:45.280 illegal, right?

00:26:46.360 Or graffiti is, is

00:26:47.940 frowned upon, but

00:26:49.200 not punishable.

00:26:50.720 There are different

00:26:51.500 kind of rules.

00:26:52.120 And in India, the

00:26:53.420 walls are owned by

00:26:54.160 the politicians,

00:26:55.660 right?

00:26:55.980 Like walls are

00:26:57.880 painted everywhere,

00:26:58.740 but only the

00:26:59.740 politicians have

00:27:00.440 control over them,

00:27:01.540 right?

00:27:02.140 So you'll see their

00:27:03.120 names everywhere.

00:27:04.080 So it's very

00:27:04.620 interesting as an

00:27:05.820 image.

00:27:06.260 Maybe next time

00:27:06.820 you're in there,

00:27:07.320 you'll notice

00:27:08.460 that.

00:27:09.240 And if you go to

00:27:09.860 Berlin, the walls

00:27:10.960 are owned by the

00:27:11.580 artist, right?

00:27:12.860 So it's a very

00:27:13.680 different environment

00:27:14.780 and I think it

00:27:15.660 talks to the

00:27:16.660 generation and

00:27:19.660 talks to a

00:27:21.800 different set of

00:27:22.420 people, right?

00:27:23.660 And the younger

00:27:24.920 generation are always 1.00

00:27:27.800 looking for, you

00:27:28.860 know, some kind of

00:27:29.720 defiance, right?

00:27:30.860 And this defiance

00:27:32.280 usually in the

00:27:33.140 physical world could

00:27:34.320 become violent and

00:27:35.580 could create a lot

00:27:37.440 of issues.

00:27:38.280 But on the

00:27:38.600 metaverse, what

00:27:39.200 happens is because

00:27:39.940 of this free

00:27:40.580 expression, it's

00:27:42.040 all a graffiti

00:27:43.820 world, right?

00:27:44.660 It's a huge

00:27:45.200 graffiti wall and

00:27:46.400 all these artists

00:27:47.160 from across the

00:27:48.180 world, it's not

00:27:49.160 from, there is no

00:27:50.680 geographical limit

00:27:51.600 here, right?

00:27:52.280 So what happens is

00:27:53.240 a person from

00:27:53.880 Japan might do a 0.85

00:27:55.680 gallery, a person

00:27:57.120 from India might

00:27:57.900 do a gallery, a

00:27:58.640 person from Italy

00:28:00.260 might do a gallery

00:28:01.160 and there could be

00:28:02.120 cross pollination of

00:28:05.080 all these ideas and

00:28:06.680 then you all meet

00:28:07.980 there, right?

00:28:08.960 And you look at

00:28:10.120 this, look at what

00:28:11.560 is happening around

00:28:12.260 you and it moves

00:28:14.500 you, right?

00:28:14.980 Like it talks to

00:28:16.720 you.

00:28:17.280 So it's basically,

00:28:18.940 we are just

00:28:19.380 discovering art again

00:28:21.680 and that

00:28:23.320 sensibility is going

00:28:25.120 away and because

00:28:26.960 it's also

00:28:27.400 unconfisticatable

00:28:28.480 that means that

00:28:29.340 you know, spots in

00:28:31.320 the metaverse, the

00:28:32.020 virtual world becomes

00:28:33.140 like an address for

00:28:34.100 the artist.

00:28:35.400 So they could be

00:28:36.400 thrown out of

00:28:37.140 Twitter, thrown out

00:28:38.000 of Facebook, right?

00:28:39.040 But a spot in the

00:28:41.040 virtual world because

00:28:41.860 it's owned by you

00:28:42.740 through an NFT, NFTs

00:28:44.640 need not be just

00:28:45.300 art, it can represent

00:28:46.620 the land title in the

00:28:48.140 virtual world.

00:28:49.600 So because you own

00:28:50.680 it, no one can just

00:28:52.100 take that away from

00:28:53.120 you and so you can

00:28:54.680 give that as your

00:28:55.620 address, a URL

00:28:56.900 that points to the

00:28:58.380 spot in the

00:28:59.320 metaverse can be

00:29:00.220 the address of an

00:29:01.280 artist.

00:29:01.740 So you know that

00:29:02.760 you can find him

00:29:03.620 and you can let him

00:29:05.540 talk to you through

00:29:06.840 his work all the

00:29:08.220 time by just

00:29:09.020 visiting that URL

00:29:09.980 again, right?

00:29:10.900 So I think that's

00:29:11.800 very powerful.

00:29:13.560 Vignesh, let me ask

00:29:14.380 you, how do you view

00:29:15.300 money and currency?

00:29:16.420 Like what is money

00:29:17.160 to you?

00:29:17.640 Do you look at it

00:29:19.260 like the way the

00:29:19.940 average person looks

00:29:20.780 at money or do you

00:29:21.460 look at it as like

00:29:22.340 points scoring in a

00:29:24.020 game?

00:29:24.400 Like it's just, you

00:29:25.320 know, how do you

00:29:26.020 look at money

00:29:26.620 yourself?

00:29:29.160 Actually, this is not

00:29:30.380 a usual question.

00:29:31.880 So I'm going to

00:29:32.940 think on it a little

00:29:33.980 bit.

00:29:34.580 But what I would like

00:29:35.640 to say is I'm a

00:29:38.120 huge fan of Olafur,

00:29:39.620 the artist, and he

00:29:41.200 had this climate

00:29:41.860 change project, which

00:29:43.860 happened in I think

00:29:45.580 Norway or somewhere

00:29:46.340 where, you know, he

00:29:47.640 took a glacier and

00:29:49.340 then put it in front

00:29:50.240 of the front of the

00:29:52.680 conference hall where

00:29:54.080 the climate change

00:29:55.080 conference was

00:29:55.720 happening and you

00:29:56.960 could see that

00:29:57.660 glacier melt.

00:30:00.360 It's he made

00:30:01.480 something very obvious,

00:30:02.720 right?

00:30:03.740 And and that's how I

00:30:05.260 feel about money.

00:30:06.780 Fiat is melting.

00:30:08.620 Fiat is melting in

00:30:10.040 front of our eyes and

00:30:11.220 it's non-obvious.

00:30:12.480 It's not obvious

00:30:13.360 because you don't

00:30:15.020 feel that way.

00:30:16.020 Everything in price,

00:30:17.280 if you are an asset

00:30:17.940 owner, everything is

00:30:19.220 going up.

00:30:20.240 And you think that

00:30:21.180 you're becoming

00:30:21.660 richer.

00:30:22.680 But once upon a

00:30:23.720 time, being a

00:30:24.700 millionaire was hard.

00:30:26.040 Now, you know, being

00:30:27.740 a billionaire is okay.

00:30:30.260 There's going to be

00:30:31.180 trillionaires now.

00:30:32.160 It does not mean

00:30:34.200 anything.

00:30:34.920 It means that we have

00:30:36.200 been inflating

00:30:37.380 everything around us

00:30:38.940 and asset prices have

00:30:40.680 increased.

00:30:41.500 And it does create

00:30:42.240 this, you know, like

00:30:43.340 K-shaped issue,

00:30:46.700 right, where if you're

00:30:47.940 not an asset owner,

00:30:48.940 you're really affected

00:30:49.720 because you're sitting

00:30:50.460 on the fiat that's

00:30:51.200 melting, right?

00:30:52.720 So it's similar to the

00:30:53.960 climate change crisis

00:30:54.900 that way where we have

00:30:56.820 to understand what's

00:30:57.740 happening.

00:30:58.680 And crypto almost is

00:31:00.140 the opposite of that,

00:31:01.940 right?

00:31:02.080 So I look at money as

00:31:05.700 definitely as a measure of

00:31:09.640 what you contribute to the

00:31:11.380 society.

00:31:12.180 But again, because of all

00:31:13.420 this economic game, there

00:31:14.820 is a little bit of like a

00:31:16.240 lot of smartness that also

00:31:18.080 is required where, you

00:31:20.080 know, to keep your money

00:31:21.240 is not easy because people

00:31:23.800 say, you know, if you're a 1.00

00:31:24.820 fool, the world has a way to 1.00

00:31:26.440 take the money away from 1.00

00:31:27.440 you.

00:31:27.640 And I think economists

00:31:29.360 do that to you.

00:31:30.900 The government does that

00:31:31.740 to you so that you don't

00:31:32.920 remind lazy.

00:31:34.200 And I don't think it's

00:31:34.920 dare.

00:31:36.760 It's not, it should not

00:31:38.080 be dare peragato, right?

00:31:40.300 What if I'm lazy?

00:31:41.580 What if I want to be not

00:31:43.300 very useful and just stay,

00:31:45.260 right?

00:31:45.680 Maybe like I will not be a

00:31:47.800 famous person, but I can,

00:31:49.080 I should still be able to

00:31:50.440 live.

00:31:51.000 But in this world today,

00:31:51.980 if you don't make $2,000

00:31:53.420 a month, you are homeless.

00:31:54.740 And that's, that's a huge,

00:31:57.260 that's a huge problem,

00:31:59.640 right?

00:32:00.320 Because we are part of

00:32:01.100 economy and I didn't sign

00:32:02.360 up to be part of this

00:32:03.260 economy.

00:32:03.740 We are all part of this

00:32:05.120 economy.

00:32:06.960 Very insightful.

00:32:07.940 How do you view America,

00:32:09.000 by the way, as an economy

00:32:09.780 from the outside?

00:32:10.400 Because, you know, the

00:32:11.800 advantage you have is

00:32:13.120 you're in Singapore, which

00:32:15.200 is the number one place to

00:32:17.500 be for capitalists.

00:32:19.020 I mean, you know, the

00:32:19.660 whole book, Atlas Shrugged,

00:32:21.560 if you wanted to create the

00:32:23.600 city, the closest thing to

00:32:25.760 that city today is

00:32:27.100 Singapore.

00:32:28.220 Nothing comes close to it.

00:32:29.380 Maybe there's a couple of

00:32:30.180 them you can make an

00:32:30.680 argument for, but Singapore

00:32:32.100 is a place where a lot of

00:32:33.060 capitalists are going to.

00:32:34.080 And, and what's funny is a

00:32:35.240 lot of people who are there

00:32:36.100 don't want other people to

00:32:37.060 know.

00:32:37.240 It's kind of like, don't

00:32:37.900 advertise it.

00:32:38.680 Just kind of let, let it

00:32:39.740 just be us that we know it.

00:32:41.500 But for you who lived in

00:32:43.600 India, live in Singapore, 0.99

00:32:45.340 you lived in Canada,

00:32:47.220 I think you lived in a,

00:32:48.460 was it UAE as well?

00:32:50.640 UAE.

00:32:50.980 But how do you view America

00:32:52.600 right now?

00:32:54.760 Because, let me explain a

00:32:58.040 little bit more deeper on

00:32:58.820 that.

00:32:59.040 How do you view America,

00:33:00.140 one, just as America as an 0.71

00:33:01.940 economy and society, what

00:33:03.220 direction it's going to, and

00:33:04.680 how do you view it from the

00:33:06.260 standpoint of, you know, you

00:33:07.420 got a Janet Yellen and some

00:33:08.800 of these folks in politics

00:33:10.560 who own the wall, you know,

00:33:12.060 the way you said, who owns

00:33:13.080 the wall, who are wanting to

00:33:15.140 dictate and put controls on

00:33:16.520 Bitcoin.

00:33:16.980 So two ways.

00:33:17.740 One, how do you use it, view

00:33:18.960 it as a society in the

00:33:19.820 future, and how they're

00:33:21.400 managing and looking at

00:33:23.360 the crypto.

00:33:24.800 Yeah.

00:33:25.300 So I would, I would like to

00:33:27.220 say that, you know, like we

00:33:28.440 divide the world, countries in 0.99

00:33:30.300 the world into developed and

00:33:32.020 developing, right?

00:33:33.040 So developed almost, that word

00:33:37.580 feels like it's complete,

00:33:39.240 right?

00:33:39.880 And developing means it's a,

00:33:41.480 it's a, it's a, it's the

00:33:43.700 present tense, right?

00:33:44.660 Like something is happening.

00:33:46.200 Yeah.

00:33:46.500 But that is this continuous

00:33:48.740 idea to everything.

00:33:51.900 And I think America actually

00:33:53.480 kind of missed it in a way,

00:33:55.980 in the, it, it, it's a name

00:33:57.580 brand, right?

00:33:58.940 America is definitely a name

00:34:00.340 brand, but after the seventies,

00:34:03.020 I think if you, if, like, if

00:34:06.580 you are an American, I don't 1.00

00:34:08.240 think it's the same because the

00:34:10.300 taxes have, and the tax, the

00:34:12.420 way taxes are done today, and

00:34:15.140 the way money is, is, is being

00:34:18.100 printed, it all, it, it, it, it

00:34:21.280 is all very un-American, like 1.00

00:34:24.360 from an outside, from an

00:34:26.120 outsider's point of view, right?

00:34:27.380 I, I don't want to criticize, you

00:34:30.820 know, a specific government or,

00:34:32.480 or, you know, another, another

00:34:34.920 country in the world, which I'm

00:34:36.300 not part of, which, which I'm not

00:34:37.960 very happy about doing also, but

00:34:40.760 just looking at it, I was

00:34:42.840 inspired by America, you know,

00:34:45.400 every time I, I, I, someone

00:34:47.160 talked to me about America, I

00:34:49.120 was like, it, it used to, you

00:34:50.780 know, like there's used to be

00:34:52.680 light, light bulbs in my head

00:34:54.100 and, and growing up from India,

00:34:55.940 most of the people's dream is to

00:34:58.580 go sit in, in America, think

00:35:00.140 about that, right?

00:35:00.960 Like all these smart people, it's

00:35:02.880 like we, we take the society and

00:35:05.000 the cream wants to go to

00:35:06.620 America, right?

00:35:07.660 So it's, it's, I, I feel

00:35:09.240 sometimes bad about this because

00:35:10.560 I'm like, oh man, we have to be

00:35:12.200 in India, then, then it, it'll

00:35:13.520 make better sense for India.

00:35:15.420 But all that, all that momentum,

00:35:18.720 I think is now slowing down

00:35:20.460 because of the way the system,

00:35:23.400 system has, you know, kind of

00:35:26.420 changed from being a capitalist

00:35:27.860 system, even though they don't

00:35:29.640 like, I feel like they, like

00:35:31.260 America, America really hates

00:35:32.760 the word communism, but there is

00:35:35.280 this, there is this spectrum

00:35:37.220 where it's, it's moving towards

00:35:39.760 it, right?

00:35:40.300 Like all, all, all of these

00:35:41.900 taxation and all of these

00:35:45.840 handouts through from the, and

00:35:49.580 money printing, especially even,

00:35:51.460 even during COVID, the kind of

00:35:53.300 money printing that went into it.

00:35:54.880 And from 2008, if you look at how

00:35:57.160 much money has been printed,

00:35:58.860 that's, that's very un-American 0.92

00:36:01.620 if you ask me, right?

00:36:02.760 And so if I'm today going to live

00:36:05.620 in America or an American, it's 0.59

00:36:07.480 very, I have to pay world taxes.

00:36:09.540 So even if I move somewhere else,

00:36:11.240 I have to pay taxes, right?

00:36:12.980 And, and it's, it's just, you

00:36:15.820 know, it's just using the name

00:36:17.680 brand to, you know, kind of, it's

00:36:21.740 America for the, like it's, it's 0.70

00:36:24.140 people for the nation, not, not 0.92

00:36:25.660 nation for the people, right?

00:36:27.300 So that's, that's how I feel.

00:36:28.860 And I think when I want, was

00:36:31.160 making this decision of moving from

00:36:32.700 Canada, like I was so afraid to

00:36:36.320 even think about America.

00:36:38.000 I didn't want to move into America 1.00

00:36:39.800 at all, because I knew that it's a

00:36:41.900 trap, a tax trap, because once I

00:36:43.820 move into it, it's, it becomes very

00:36:46.180 hard for me to, to, to take me off

00:36:48.840 because they, they would, they want

00:36:50.400 information of all my assets.

00:36:51.760 Now it's like crypto assets.

00:36:53.840 They have to declare them.

00:36:55.180 It's not cool.

00:36:56.480 I I'm very pro privacy.

00:36:58.560 So in Singapore, I don't even have to

00:37:01.360 say what assets I hold, right?

00:37:03.940 Only if I have an income inside

00:37:05.360 Singapore, I talk to talk to the

00:37:07.120 government and America is very

00:37:08.960 different.

00:37:09.680 So I feel like it's moved away from,

00:37:11.540 you know, like the, the, the day

00:37:13.760 and it's more of a, the rising

00:37:16.440 nations as Balaji again would put

00:37:18.720 it's, it's, it's, it's, it's between

00:37:20.420 the rising nations now of the, of

00:37:22.260 the East, uh, and, and, and the

00:37:24.300 declining nations of the West is, is

00:37:26.380 how I feel like today.

00:37:28.380 So do you think the way they're going

00:37:30.220 right now, it's sustainable or no?

00:37:32.540 Definitely not sustainable.

00:37:34.000 Definitely not sustainable because

00:37:34.980 something should happen to the fiat

00:37:36.480 system.

00:37:37.700 Like a lot of people talk about

00:37:39.420 crypto as a bubble, right?

00:37:41.460 But think about it.

00:37:43.580 Crypto is not the bubble.

00:37:44.800 It's the pin to the fiat system.

00:37:48.720 So what's happening now is if I'm

00:37:51.560 U S prints, keeps printing money and

00:37:54.620 another nation also equally prints

00:37:56.380 money, what, how do you measure, you

00:37:59.400 know, like inflation, you would just

00:38:01.900 see all the assets going up and be

00:38:03.420 like, Oh yeah, assets are more

00:38:05.100 important.

00:38:05.660 So they went up in price.

00:38:06.920 The, the psychology of people cannot be

00:38:09.100 affected, but when you see crypto

00:38:11.180 price going up, it's, it's a mirror,

00:38:13.940 it's a mirror to the system.

00:38:15.600 And it's saying whenever people talk

00:38:18.240 about crypto and understand it

00:38:19.500 enough, they go to the point where

00:38:21.040 they say, Oh, it has no intrinsic

00:38:22.500 value.

00:38:23.140 And I tell them, wait until you

00:38:24.820 understand what fiat is.

00:38:26.600 Right.

00:38:27.400 And the system, the fiat system today

00:38:29.240 is very different from the 1940s and

00:38:31.440 1930s.

00:38:32.580 After the Brenton Woods, it's all very

00:38:35.120 different, right?

00:38:36.000 And people have not even gotten to

00:38:38.760 understand that a lot of people in the

00:38:40.020 world still think it's, it's backed by

00:38:41.560 gold.

00:38:42.520 It's not, it's not.

00:38:45.000 And, and for, for, for the rich people,

00:38:47.780 usually they're continuously moving their

00:38:49.760 cash away into assets.

00:38:52.520 Right.

00:38:53.100 And, and they continuously think about it

00:38:55.200 and people don't hold cash at all.

00:38:59.200 But, but historically, maybe you would hold

00:39:01.740 cash, a lot of cash when it was maybe

00:39:04.520 pegged to gold or something.

00:39:05.980 Now it does not make sense.

00:39:08.320 It's like a, it's like something on

00:39:11.100 fire, right?

00:39:11.620 Like you want to give it to someone else

00:39:13.460 and get something that will not decrease

00:39:16.260 in value.

00:39:16.860 So it has become like that and it's

00:39:19.680 accelerating.

00:39:21.360 And once you go into that trap, the, the

00:39:24.600 money printing trap from the government

00:39:27.080 side, you know, it's like, you know, if

00:39:29.820 you look at the mainstream media, when

00:39:31.860 they, when they talk positive about the

00:39:33.960 handouts, right?

00:39:34.960 Like going on, what happens is it creates

00:39:38.020 a sense of the government helping people

00:39:41.260 and anyone talking against it or wrong

00:39:43.920 morally, right?

00:39:45.520 But we are not talking about who, like

00:39:47.600 everyone is, is, is, is very like, I'm

00:39:50.680 that's, that's not the intention.

00:39:52.240 The intention is, is this sustainable?

00:39:54.760 Because we are, we covering up a bigger

00:39:56.500 problem for tomorrow, right?

00:39:57.980 And fiat printing is such a, uh, uh, I don't

00:40:01.900 want to use the word diabolical, but it's a,

00:40:04.060 it's, it's something that's not obvious.

00:40:06.740 It's something that's not very, very easily

00:40:11.340 understandable by the end user and, and

00:40:13.920 customer and citizen.

00:40:15.560 So the government can keep doing it for a

00:40:18.040 while.

00:40:18.480 And one day maybe, you know, they say like a

00:40:22.520 slower and then suddenly fiat would be like

00:40:26.200 that.

00:40:26.500 It, we, we could like America could go into

00:40:28.860 hyperinflation, but you know, the trust of

00:40:31.100 the country is still there.

00:40:32.080 So it might, it might take years for that

00:40:34.660 to happen.

00:40:35.960 What, what is the next America right now?

00:40:38.020 Meaning, you know, America is really an

00:40:39.420 idea.

00:40:39.800 If you think about it, it's not nothing more

00:40:41.580 than an idea.

00:40:42.120 You got a bunch of land and resources, but

00:40:43.760 the reality of it is it's a set of ideas

00:40:46.040 written on a constitution and a paper.

00:40:47.760 And then the world started showing up

00:40:49.740 immigrants like myself.

00:40:50.640 I'm not from here.

00:40:51.180 I'm from Iran.

00:40:52.220 So I showed up here and I said, okay, great.

00:40:54.180 I like these set of ideas.

00:40:55.400 Let me build my family around these set of

00:40:57.340 ideas.

00:40:57.760 In the, in the crypto world and the

00:41:00.660 community that you're a part of, what, what

00:41:03.440 do you guys see as the next America?

00:41:05.320 If, if such a thing even exists, do you

00:41:07.700 look at Singapore or is there other places

00:41:09.300 you look at?

00:41:11.360 Like you almost described what Bitcoin is,

00:41:14.700 right?

00:41:15.440 Because it's an idea.

00:41:16.920 As you said, I have immigrated into

00:41:20.300 crypto.

00:41:21.280 And if you understand, like, that's what

00:41:22.880 this conversation is about, where I'm

00:41:26.140 trying to reduce my physical print as

00:41:30.080 much as possible so that, you know, it's

00:41:32.920 just a commodity to me, the country, the

00:41:36.240 system, everything just becomes a

00:41:38.100 commodity to me.

00:41:39.200 And I will go to the country which best

00:41:41.100 serves my, my ideas that are in this

00:41:46.120 virtual world.

00:41:47.080 Right.

00:41:47.420 And the new America, if you ask me, is

00:41:50.580 crypto because it allowed an immigrant,

00:41:53.180 you know, to be part of it.

00:41:54.640 It does not say no to anyone.

00:41:56.960 It is a free, it's a, it's, it's, it has

00:41:59.180 open borders.

00:42:00.520 Right.

00:42:00.820 And you can, you can go from zero to

00:42:04.240 becoming really successful in a lot of

00:42:07.460 phase.

00:42:07.760 It's not like my story is not done.

00:42:11.660 Right.

00:42:11.940 Like it's not, it's not like people should

00:42:13.900 not think about my story and think, oh,

00:42:15.820 yeah, he was lucky.

00:42:17.520 Maybe I was, but you can do today's, what

00:42:20.900 is more important.

00:42:21.600 You can start today and in 10 years, you

00:42:24.200 could also be that is what I'm trying to

00:42:26.200 say.

00:42:26.800 And, and people are very welcoming, right?

00:42:28.980 Like now, why are we inviting artists to

00:42:32.100 be part of this moment?

00:42:33.160 And why did we, why are we doing this

00:42:35.300 NFT and why are we spending so much

00:42:37.260 money?

00:42:38.160 Because think about it like this.

00:42:41.100 Historically, they were kings and they, they

00:42:43.580 were the patents to art.

00:42:44.720 And they have like all, when we go to a

00:42:47.740 museum, that's what goes into our head

00:42:50.280 now, right?

00:42:50.820 Like we, we look at all this art and that's

00:42:53.740 our mental model.

00:42:54.780 That's very deep.

00:42:55.920 And, and from there, we, we've had no medium

00:43:00.080 change and tech totally missed, missed art.

00:43:04.460 I, when I say tech, I'm differentiating is

00:43:07.440 from crypto, right?

00:43:09.200 Tech is different because crypto is the

00:43:11.240 opposite of tech, it decentralizes, crypto

00:43:14.320 decentralizes, tech centralizes.

00:43:17.200 It's, it's just corporations, which are

00:43:20.280 like multinational, like governments, which

00:43:23.320 would not, which will not tell that fact

00:43:26.540 outside, right?

00:43:27.380 They are just virtual governments, the MNCs.

00:43:30.160 So what crypto is, is a new kind of nation.

00:43:35.360 And it, you, you can just get into it and

00:43:38.320 get out of it.

00:43:39.060 And there is no passport, no citizenship.

00:43:41.580 It's just virtual.

00:43:43.380 You just said, you just said the tech

00:43:45.320 companies are virtual governments.

00:43:48.120 Yeah.

00:43:48.240 Wow.

00:43:48.760 So, so essentially Facebook, Twitter, Google

00:43:53.260 is a virtual government.

00:43:55.400 Yeah.

00:43:56.640 They're, they're citizens.

00:43:57.780 Like they have 1 billion people under them

00:43:59.920 and they make all the money.

00:44:01.980 And it's not even the money.

00:44:03.540 It's the control.

00:44:04.260 They get to dictate the rules.

00:44:07.680 Yeah.

00:44:08.180 And they control your attention.

00:44:10.520 Today, they say data is oil.

00:44:13.120 What it's a very, very important statement,

00:44:15.640 right?

00:44:15.920 When data is oil.

00:44:17.580 Yeah.

00:44:18.300 And, and, and crypto is the opposite of that.

00:44:21.120 And so when art becomes part of crypto,

00:44:23.880 what we are doing here is deeper because

00:44:26.140 we are taking this, this movement as a

00:44:28.680 patronage movement.

00:44:29.520 So we like, when artists come into this

00:44:32.480 movement, it's going to be a visual, we are

00:44:35.340 going to have this visual language, right?

00:44:37.740 It's going to impact the world visually.

00:44:39.900 It might be the physical world too, but I'm

00:44:42.520 more excited about the metaverse in that

00:44:44.240 way, because I want to create, not, not me.

00:44:47.220 I want to be part of this creation.

00:44:49.560 I'll be one of those people, but I think

00:44:51.660 there'll be hundreds of collectors who create

00:44:54.120 this visual, visual metaverse where a 14 year

00:44:58.900 old would arrive from, from say Iran or say

00:45:02.820 from, from Japan and would, would get inspired

00:45:05.820 and become part of that community, right?

00:45:08.980 Because where can you go today?

00:45:10.360 If you're from Iran, you know about Iran, right?

00:45:13.480 Definitely.

00:45:14.520 And I, I get very emotional.

00:45:16.000 I have friends from Iran too.

00:45:17.560 And, you know, sometimes I cannot even send

00:45:19.820 them money.

00:45:20.220 It's, you know, even crypto, but you know

00:45:25.020 what I mean?

00:45:25.520 It's, it's, it's a very different world we

00:45:27.540 are living in.

00:45:28.520 And, and the, and the crypto world is the

00:45:31.360 new America, as you said, it's a, it's

00:45:33.620 where people are welcome.

00:45:35.720 People can find their destiny.

00:45:41.140 I don't want to explain it that way before.

00:45:43.140 That's, that's pretty intense on what you

00:45:44.680 just said, right?

00:45:45.300 That you said, by the way, you said a lot

00:45:46.620 of different things and you were what?

00:45:48.580 You were a technical consultant before.

00:45:50.640 And in 2003, 13, you started with 5,000, $5,000

00:45:54.520 and you turn it into this.

00:45:55.840 You cannot have just been a technical

00:45:57.640 consultant.

00:45:58.960 Are you a reader?

00:45:59.980 Are you, do you, are you a big researcher?

00:46:02.040 Are you a reader?

00:46:03.860 What's in that brain of yours?

00:46:06.200 So I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm a reader.

00:46:08.880 Definitely.

00:46:10.120 I, when I, when I was growing up, maybe

00:46:12.900 when I was, until I was 20, I, I could

00:46:15.880 not, English is not my first language, right?

00:46:18.480 So, uh, uh, like I could not read very well.

00:46:22.100 So what I, what I did was I started listening

00:46:24.240 to audio books when I was 20, around 20.

00:46:27.020 Uh, it also helped me with my language, right?

00:46:29.660 Because someone was, you know, always speaking

00:46:31.300 in my ears.

00:46:32.020 So it, it became a very interesting thing back,

00:46:34.900 but, but back then it's all, it's all okay.

00:46:37.660 Now, but like I had audible and audible

00:46:40.680 was very costly for me.

00:46:42.260 I could not afford audible.

00:46:43.520 So what I used to do is they had this one free book

00:46:46.380 that you can download if you have a credit card.

00:46:48.800 So I used to borrow so many people's credit card,

00:46:50.900 create these accounts for like, and, and download

00:46:53.800 these audio books, all these, uh, uh, economists, right?

00:46:57.680 Like Austrian economics.

00:46:58.940 So I had no like idea.

00:47:00.980 Like I, I was, I'm an engineer by, you know,

00:47:03.640 like a undergrad, but economics and, um, um,

00:47:08.240 especially, uh, Ludwig, one Mises and, and, uh, Hayek.

00:47:12.600 Uh, Hayek is a very big inspiration in my life.

00:47:18.100 Crazy.

00:47:19.080 Uh, the, the names you're giving, let me,

00:47:21.300 are you guys familiar with BitClout?

00:47:22.940 A little bit, but I'm not used.

00:47:25.580 I don't know about two, but I haven't used it yet.

00:47:28.200 So, so you, you know, the whole idea just came out

00:47:30.520 a few weeks ago, which is, you know,

00:47:33.060 you're able to invest into individuals.

00:47:35.200 So you're buying currency in individuals

00:47:38.320 and they went and got the top 15,000 Twitter profiles,

00:47:43.400 put it over there, decentralized.

00:47:45.840 No one owns it.

00:47:46.600 It's not like there's an operation going similar to, uh, Bitcoin

00:47:50.020 and you get to buy.

00:47:52.060 So the first person that buys, it's a dollar,

00:47:53.960 then two, four, eight, 16.

00:47:55.440 And it keeps going and they have a ranking

00:47:57.900 on who's at the top.

00:47:59.060 And, uh, uh, gradually other people are coming in.

00:48:02.280 Not a lot of big names have come in yet,

00:48:03.660 but enough names are coming in that are recruiting others.

00:48:06.340 Can you see a concept like that also?

00:48:08.900 Because I think a lot of times right now,

00:48:10.460 when I read about you, I read about the fact that you,

00:48:13.820 you bigger wealth of your,

00:48:16.720 a bigger percentage of your wealth was made based on Ethereum.

00:48:19.700 You were an early investor in Ethereum

00:48:21.340 and you had it backed with Bitcoin ATMs.

00:48:24.440 So do you see a BitClout being something

00:48:27.600 that could be the next Bitcoin Ethereum type of thing?

00:48:30.920 Because it seems like a lot of different things

00:48:32.240 are coming out right now,

00:48:32.960 but this is more investing in an individual

00:48:35.100 rather than a currency.

00:48:37.960 I think there'll be many forms to it.

00:48:39.940 And, uh, for like,

00:48:41.680 I've not researched too much into BitClout.

00:48:45.040 So I've, I've just, you know,

00:48:46.540 as I've heard, heard it from here and there,

00:48:49.280 uh, I would, I would not jump into it definitely.

00:48:52.160 Right.

00:48:52.760 Even, even when I used to do investments,

00:48:54.980 I, I used to have a,

00:48:58.120 like, it's like, yeah, from outside,

00:49:00.700 it looks like I'm, I'm not diversified,

00:49:02.820 but inside the crypto industry,

00:49:04.820 when I, when I move into a new crypto

00:49:07.000 or, or a new team,

00:49:08.640 I always have, have limitations

00:49:11.580 on how much I'll go into it with.

00:49:14.100 So if it's a new company like BitClout,

00:49:16.900 and I have no idea who the founder is,

00:49:19.260 I would really, really be skeptical about it,

00:49:22.060 like personally.

00:49:23.240 Right.

00:49:23.860 And even if, even if it has a good idea

00:49:27.220 and, and it can be decentralized,

00:49:28.920 the problem is in a year,

00:49:31.700 there could be a politic.

00:49:33.060 It's all crypto becomes very political quickly.

00:49:35.220 Right.

00:49:36.060 And there should be a resolution

00:49:37.820 to how they upgrade stuff.

00:49:39.680 And, and if it's,

00:49:40.840 if it has this, uh, crypto

00:49:42.940 and, and a centralized website,

00:49:45.100 which, which, you know,

00:49:46.600 goes with it or something,

00:49:48.280 that's a huge risk.

00:49:49.520 So that's a red flag for me.

00:49:51.120 So I will not go too much into that.

00:49:53.440 Right.

00:49:54.060 So I usually look for

00:49:56.360 who's leading this movement

00:49:58.620 and why, what their intention is

00:50:00.820 before investing.

00:50:03.440 Very interesting.

00:50:04.580 Very interesting.

00:50:05.220 Well, uh, I got to tell you,

00:50:07.440 I've really enjoyed this.

00:50:08.640 Uh, uh, I can talk to you for hours.

00:50:10.900 This is a very, uh,

00:50:12.940 deep, insightful conversation,

00:50:15.100 probably the best one I've ever had

00:50:16.300 in the topic of crypto.

00:50:17.900 And, uh, we're definitely gonna ask

00:50:20.340 to have you come back and, uh, speak.

00:50:23.020 And by the way, it was very nice

00:50:24.520 getting to know you as well.

00:50:25.940 You didn't take a long time

00:50:26.840 for you to say, look, I'm not the backer.

00:50:29.160 I'm the one that's going out there

00:50:30.220 finding this stuff.

00:50:31.060 And we work together as a team.

00:50:32.340 It shows a lot in your level

00:50:33.960 of humility of you guys

00:50:35.040 being able to work very well together.

00:50:37.340 So once again,

00:50:38.140 thank you so much for you guys

00:50:40.100 coming out and being a guest

00:50:41.020 on value, Tim.

00:50:41.520 And I really enjoyed it.

00:50:43.120 Thanks a lot.

00:50:43.760 Thanks a lot.

00:50:44.200 This was a pleasure.

00:50:45.280 Probably one of the deepest

00:50:46.000 conversations I've ever had

00:50:47.080 on the topic of Bitcoin and cryptocurrency.

00:50:48.880 I don't think the topic

00:50:50.100 has gone as deep as this one went to.

00:50:53.580 I mean, countries have walls.

00:50:55.680 In India, walls are owned by the government.

00:50:58.220 But in Berlin, walls are owned by artists.

00:51:00.840 Tech missed a mark on art and NFT.

00:51:03.480 And NFT is gonna take it

00:51:04.560 because tech essentially

00:51:05.540 became a virtual government.

00:51:07.640 U.S. used to be free on the ideas,

00:51:09.560 but I don't understand

00:51:10.320 why they're going away from...

00:51:11.420 Just incredible type of a conversation.

00:51:13.820 If you enjoyed this video,

00:51:16.380 there's two other videos

00:51:17.120 that you may enjoy.

00:51:17.740 One of them is the original

00:51:19.060 set-down I did with Beeple,

00:51:20.180 who's the artist that sold the NFT

00:51:21.540 to Medicoven for $69 million.

00:51:23.800 If you've never seen this,

00:51:24.660 click over here.

00:51:25.900 And on a podcast a couple weeks ago,

00:51:27.920 I was asked where I would move to

00:51:30.060 if America failed.

00:51:31.120 If you enjoyed that part

00:51:32.400 of the conversation with Medicoven,

00:51:34.360 click over here to see

00:51:36.300 where I would move to

00:51:37.620 if America were to fail.

00:51:39.720 Take care, everybody.

00:51:40.640 Bye-bye, bye-bye.

00:51:43.820 Bye-bye.

Valuetainment - April 07, 2021

Crypto Billionaire Who Bought $69 Million NFT “Everydays”

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