Episode 252： Dropout or Stay in School？
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Summary
In this episode of Value Team, host Patrick Ovedev explains why you should or should not go to college and why you need to go to school. He also gives his opinion on if you should drop out of college.
Transcript
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30 seconds, one time for the underdog, ignition sequence start, let me see you put em up, reach
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the sky, turn the stars up above, cause it's one time for the underdog, one time for the
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I'm Patrick Ovedev, your host of Value Team, and today we're going to talk about a topic
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that I ended up writing a book about, which is, should you drop out or should you stay
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in school and what things we could do in our current educational system to improve it?
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I think one of the biggest challenges we have today is peer pressure, and I'll explain to
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A lot of times we think college is what we have to do because the kids have a peer pressure
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of my friends getting accepted to UC Berkeley or UT or FSU and Jacksonville or NYU, so I
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got to go also because my friends going to college, forget about that peer pressure, I'm
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completely okay with that peer pressure because kids got to compete and they got to learn about
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The peer pressure that I do have a problem with, and I think no one is addressing, is
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the peer pressure of parents having to keep up against other parents.
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So it's almost like a brother saying, well, my sister's kids went to such and such school,
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I have to make sure my kids do this because my kids have to do better than my brother's
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kids or my sister's kids or my best friend's kids and all this stuff, and I don't care how
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much it's going to cost me to go into because they pay $200,000, honey, we'll refinance and
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take out a mortgage to pay for our son's school because we have to say, our son went to USC,
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that family may be making $600,000 a year, this family can't afford to do refinance because
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that's a retirement money, but through peer pressure, they do it just to keep up with their
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best friend or their sister or their brother and they pay for that college.
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And the last peer pressure that I believe is those who work in the educational space,
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those who are professors, teachers, a dean, and you have to protect your argument because
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sometimes if you're single, you have to make a case why it makes sense to become single.
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If you're married, you have to make a case why everybody needs to be married.
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You ever hear the story, married people recruit married people, single people recruit single
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We recruit because we want to make a case that we made the right choice doing what we did.
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Sometimes educators are, because you're only in that world, the only thing you think is
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It's cost on a lot of families, a lot of trials, a lot of tribulations.
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And I'll be almost like an attorney and I'll make my case.
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You be the judge, you be the jury, and you can take all the shots you want at me.
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I post a question on my website, patrickbaydavid.com.
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I got tons of comments about this and I'll read some of the people's comments on the
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And then I have a questionnaire that I'm going to share with you for you to take before you
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So first, first things first, who, in my opinion, should stay in school and continue school
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One, anybody who's trying to become a professional, meaning a medical doctor, dentist, nurse, RN,
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you need school and engineering, civil, any kind of thing that's engineering, you need to
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Or if you're playing sports, if you're playing sports for a school and they've given you a
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full-ride scholarship, you may as well take advantage of it because you have a shot at
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Second point, if you're in school and want to drop out but you're lazy, I absolutely don't
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I know a lot of kids that say, Pat, I also want to drop out and I want to stay in school.
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And I'll ask them, what's the most you've ever worked in a week?
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You still don't know about work ethic because if you don't know how to work hard, you got
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to be honest with yourself, you got to stay in school to learn discipline and hard work.
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If you at least know how to get a degree, maybe they'll teach you about discipline and
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Three, if you're in school and you have a habit of not finishing things, stay in school.
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At least finish that thing if you have a habit of not finishing things.
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Four, if you're accepted to an Ivy League school, I think it's a good idea to go to an
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Not everybody gets a chance to go to Ivy League school.
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If you go to Yale, Harvard, any of those, you ought to continue there because that's a
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pretty big deal to be accepted to some of those schools.
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Five, full-ride scholarship and you are fully clear about what you want to do with your life,
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One, you got a strong work ethic and you're not clear about what you're doing, drop out.
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Two, if you're completely undecided with your career path, don't waste your parents'
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See, a lot of times, undecided kids rarely use their own money.
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Undecided kids usually use their parents' money is what they do.
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And if you're a parent, I highly not discourage you supporting an undecided kid going to college
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Imagine if your son or daughter comes up to you and says, mom, I'm in love.
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You know, mom, I'm thinking about getting married.
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I don't know why, but we both like the Raiders.
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Mom, we're thinking about getting married in September and we're thinking about getting
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If you said, there's no way in the world we would help pay for that wedding, then why
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are you paying for your kids going to college when they're undecided?
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It's an undecided decision that you're funding.
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That kid needs to learn and figure something out for life and then come back to school.
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Whoever said people have to go to school from 18 to 22, who came out with that rule?
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You can always figure life out from 18 to 22, go do some stuff and then come back and go
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But if it's undecided, I don't fund undecided things with my kids.
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Next, if you're great in sales and you have a gift of gap and you have the hard work, again,
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you're not clear about what you want to do with college, you can drop out.
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If you're disciplined, you know you're disciplined, you work out, you take care of your body, you're
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typically always good about delivering and all that other stuff.
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When somebody says do this, you keep your work, you're going to be okay to drop out of
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If you're extremely competitive, absolutely competitive, you're going to make it.
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If you have an easy time making friends, talking to strangers, people like to hire people like
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that who know how to make friends and you're charismatic, charming, all that stuff, you
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can drop out of college as long as you have a strong work ethic.
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Or if you have an opportunity to work on somebody that's willing to mentor you, they're willing
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to coach you and know what they're knowing themselves.
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If someone's willing to do that, you will, let me put it to you in the simplest way possible.
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Being mentored by somebody who is absolutely established and successful is worth more than
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getting an MBA from the greatest school in the world.
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Being mentored by somebody who is absolutely successful and has done very well for themselves
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is worth more than you going to the greatest school in the world.
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If that person's willing to teach you what they know.
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So that's who I think ought to consider dropping out.
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So I talk about who should stay in school, who should drop out, but why drop out?
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My problem with school, here's a problem that I have with school.
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I'm going to give you first my mathematical argument.
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So what a house was worth in 71, it's doubled 12 times.
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Our income today, according to Department of Labor, is $53,657, which means our income's
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So our income's doubled five times, but the cost of a house has doubled 12 times.
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The average cost of a four-year tuition to a non-profit, to a non-profit, private non-profit
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university, four-year, average cost per year was $1831 in 1971.
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I'll put all the LinkedIn information on the bottom.
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Today, in 2015, the average tuition to a non-profit, private school is $31,231.
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That's 17 times double is what we're talking about.
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A public college per year was, public four-year college was $500 per year.
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This is a CNBC article with cost of living for college.
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And parents are still pressured to pay for the schooling of their kids and use their own
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retirement money and count on Social Security, which is probably not going to be able to be
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activated at the age of 65 because when they first came out with Social Security, when they
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came out with the age of 62, people were only living to 62.
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So now parents have to use up their money for kids' college, education, retirement, later
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on have to work till 75, 80 years old because we're living longer.
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Kids then have to support parents, which the ripple effect could cause kids to get a divorce.
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One, parents, do you want your kids to get a divorce?
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And two, kids, do you want to take care of your mommy and daddy for the rest of your
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That's a serious decision that's got to be made on both parties.
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Now let me give you another number here that bothers me.
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I went and got a hold of the most expensive book, $200.
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I said, how much would a book like this cost if I wanted to make $5,000 of this copy of
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And they expect our kids and parents to pay $200 for this.
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That's 33 times more on what it costs to make money.
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I mean, schools are using the capitalistic system at a whole different place.
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I understand wholesale and markup, but marking up from $6 to $200, that's embarrassing.
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Apple computers doesn't do that, let alone a college university is charging that kind
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And the stats on these numbers are also on the bottom.
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If I could invest into college books, I would buy the stock.
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We'd become millionaires if we did something like that.
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I also believe colleges are producing followers.
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It's a lot of just somebody talks, talks, talks, talks.
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But generally, the system isn't producing what it's supposed to be producing.
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And it's costing way too much money to produce the results that they're telling us they're
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Many universities, it's all about a recruiting to a political agenda that they have.
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And then they recruit to a certain political party.
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And you've got to kind of pay attention to that as well.
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I don't know why we need to go to college for four years.
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You know, kids tell me, so, Pat, do you think if I'm majoring in business, I should go to
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And I was even with Mark Cuban a couple weeks ago.
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And I asked him, I said, what do you think about people who say you should drop out of
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He said, because you should go to college because you've got to learn accounting.
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Do you believe college, kids need to go to college to get a four-year degree?
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You can watch that take of what he says in the interview, Patrick Bedeva, Mark Cuban.
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You'll see that part when he says that as well.
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I don't think somebody who's majoring in business needs to take physics.
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I think some of the mandatory classes kids need to take to get a four-year degree is a
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I would rather have our educational system be changed and we rally behind it.
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And instead of requiring four years to get a bachelor's degree in business, why don't we make
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I understand if you're going to go do surgery on my heart, you need a lot of years and watching
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I understand building a structure is a lot of details.
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You're not going to learn it in six, 12, 18 months.
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I'm not a fan of both parents and students getting into a major that think about it.
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Whether the parent pays for it, it's going to take them years to pay or they're going
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If the kid's got to pay for it, it could take them 20 years to pay for it.
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And I see how many kids and how many marriages are just stuck paying $1,500 a month, $1,100
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Just because they were told, you got to go get a four-year degree.
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You know what's the weirdest things about most people that I sit with that have degrees?
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Their jobs generally has nothing to do with their degree.
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We have 2,000 agents roughly that work for our firm in 30-something states.
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Most people that have a degree, their current job has nothing to do with the degree they
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Someone will say here, Patrick, I don't care what you say.
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And I'm going to pay for my kids' schooling no matter what, because we have a tradition
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You can afford to risk $200 with $200,000 of kids going to school.
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Is that really going to affect your retirement?
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An average family making $150,000 a year, $200,000 of a four-year period, that's a lot
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So this message isn't for the people that are making a million a year and up.
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I'm talking general families who are sacrificing every single thing to give everything they
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And the kid goes to school and is undecided and either drops out and they're still responsible
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for that debt and they're stuck with that savings.
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That's the problem that I have with any of that stuff.
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Why are we going to college in the first place?
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So parents say, well, I want my kids to go to college.
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Well, I don't want my kids to miss out on the fun partying side of life and college and
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I don't really think you need to go to college to party.
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Quite frankly, I went to the army and my army stories of partying, every time I talk to
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other kids who went to school and they tell me they're crazy partying, it's not even close
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So if you want your kids to really party, send them to the military.
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They'll really learn how to party when they're in uniform and how people look at them in
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I'm sure your son's going to really appreciate it if you send them to the army.
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So the fun part, it doesn't require a lot of discipline to party.
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Thursday night, ladies night, it's pretty much in every single state in America.
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Kids are going to find a way to party from 18 to 25.
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Quite frankly, I have a challenge with one thing with college.
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My challenge with college is we're being taught someone on business that's never ran a business
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Why would somebody teach business that's never ran a business before?
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Why would somebody teach some things that they've never done before?
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Why would we want our kids to learn what if the setup was a completely different way of
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And I'll talk about that a little later on in the subjects that I think we ought to teach.
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You know, I want my kids to go to college because they get to network in college.
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Yeah, I think they get to network in college and meet other people.
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Networking and meeting other people is not because of college.
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I promise you, if a person is not good at networking, they're not going to be good at networking
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if we put them in the military, if we put them in college, if we put them anywhere.
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They're just not going to be good at networking.
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Now, if you think they're going to get better at networking because they're going to drink
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beer and loosen up, well, that's a different story.
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Anybody can loosen up by drinking a beer and networking better.
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Networking is something a good person is good at doing.
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There were soldiers that never spoke to anybody.
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To get a good job nowadays, quite frankly, with the amount of inventory of people that
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have degrees on Courier Builder or Monster or any of that stuff, I don't think we're lacking
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the amount of people with degrees that are unemployed for an employer to hire.
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So your kid getting a degree or you getting a degree, if you think that's going to give
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you an edge on everybody else, as a CEO myself, I don't even look at the degree that you have
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I simply sit there and ask him your life experiences.
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What are some of your biggest victories in life?
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I look at those types of things when I'm hiring somebody.
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You know, my parents said so is something that, you know, as much as we try to sit there
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and talk about that whole thing, I talked about parents peer pressure earlier.
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And listen, parents, please send messages if you disagree with this.
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But all I'm asking for is for people who are watching this, talk about this.
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At the dinner table, say, I want to talk about a video I watched.
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We're going to come up with good resolutions if we talk about these things.
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You're not spending mommy's money or your money trying to figure something out in college.
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And I would suggest, kids, listen, I partied hardcore in my life.
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And I just didn't want to waste my parents' money because my parents sacrificed everything
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And when we were living in Iran, as a Christian family living in Iran, it was very difficult.
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And when Khomeini died, six weeks later, we escaped.
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And then from Germany, we came to the States here.
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The last thing I wanted to ask my parents is for money.
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I didn't want to ask my parents for money because I wanted to kind of prove to them that
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So I knew when I was partying hard, I didn't want them to pay for my partying.
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And if you're somebody that's doing that, man up and woman up and go to your parents
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and tell them and say, Mom, Dad, I think you guys are wasting your money putting me through
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You have no idea how much respect you'll gain from them by doing that.
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So with that being said, with that being said, now, my opinion on what we ought to do before
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Wait, wait, wait before you drop out of college.
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I have some points before you drop out of college.
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You've got to have a source of income before you drop out of college.
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It's not just a join this, you know, exciting new thing.
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This message has nothing to do with responsibilities.
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Don't think this is like, kumbaya, I'm joining this club of dropping out of college.
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Zuckerberg didn't become a billionaire because he wanted to drop out of college because he
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He dropped out of college and worked 120 hours a week is what he did.
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So all these entrepreneur heroes that people have behind closed doors before they became
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So before dropping out, you've got to have a source of income.
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If you kind of want to get disciplined, you don't have a lot of discipline, a highly, highly
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Air Force would be my first choice because they're all about education coming out of Air Force.
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Air Force, then it would probably be Navy, Army, Marines.
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And listen, I'm Army and I'm putting you three because I just think they got to focus a little
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And I don't necessarily think Army and Marines spend as much time on education as they ought
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They treat you like, you know, they treat you royally in the Air Force.
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It's very different than being in an Army life living in barracks and Marines.
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Anyways, the lifestyle is getting better regardless.
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The other day I went to 101st Airborne Division, the unit I was at, I didn't even recognize
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It's a complete different life they're providing for our military servicemen.
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Many CEOs, many CEOs, many politicians, many presidents served in the military before.
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They teach us a lot about independence and discipline.
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You know, if you are undecided and you have work ethic, get a backpack, partner with somebody.
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Go work for a different, learn the culture, learn the community.
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When somebody sits in front of me, I'm interviewing and they tell me, I lived a year in UK.
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And I like that because in a way, that person may not be 48 years old, but that person has
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more of a worldly experience than a 48-year-old who's never been out of the country.
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That to me is a lot of value than a four-year degree.
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I put it there because I think there's a lot of value to it.
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Whatever she tells you or he tells you, listen, learn, learn from them, okay?
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Work for an entrepreneur for free while having a source of income.
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Because you can always do the college thing from 22 to 26.
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I think sometimes the challenge that we have is we put all kids in one box.
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Or you and your wife, or you and your husband have four kids.
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One of your kids, every time you watch your kid, this kid will watch a patent movie over
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He watches Braveheart, Patriot, Saving Private Ryan.
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Watch what they want to do and develop their strengths and their calling.
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You watch the kid and I go, this kid is just all about, you know, friendly with everybody.
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Maybe you got a kid that's always like arguing with you, constantly debating with you.
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Maybe that kid needs to also go be an entrepreneur, run a business, because he's going to make
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Maybe you got a kid that's always curious about health and how are you?
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But pay attention and don't put them in the box thinking every kid is going to be in
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If a kid loves politics, if you got a kid at four years old, six years old, enjoy listening
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to Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, or Anderson Cooper, or Rachel Maddow, and you're like, what
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Maybe it's college to pursue politics in the future.
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But not everyone fits the same mold on what they need to be doing.
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Now, this is the subject that I would be teaching if I was running a university today.
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And I think we need to be teaching the subject.
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A kid talks about drop out of school and staying in school, something like that.
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Let's put the link on the bottom that they can see it as well, Paul, is what we'll do.
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You can see he made a lot of good arguments on what you need to be worried about about life.
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But if I'm running a school and I have a university, I want to see what are the biggest problems
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we're facing in the world right now, and I want to teach that.
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Two out of three marriages in America end up out of divorce.
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Is it because I would process marriage, and I would talk about bringing people who have
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been married for 30 years, have a successful personal life, have raised good kids, and I
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would have a panel of three parents where it's a six-hour panel, and kids talk to them, and
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they're talking about marriage, what works, problems, maybe issues they went through that
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they're willing to be vulnerable and share with the kids.
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They're adults at that time, 18, 19, 20 years old.
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We need to talk about those types of things in universities, in colleges.
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I would send my kids to your school if that was the case, if you're going to teach those
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type of things, and there's a panel to it, not just somebody getting up and talking about
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how to have a good marriage, and they've never been married before.
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Here's what you need to have a successful marriage.
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No, I want somebody that's going to talk about marriage that's been married 30 years.
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I want an entrepreneur giving me advice that's actually running a business.
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I want somebody who knows what they're doing, right?
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Two, I'd have somebody getting up there and talking about taxes, how to position yourself
00:26:29.840
to pay the lowest amount of taxes, how to position yourself to pay the highest amount
00:26:32.660
of taxes, how benefits of having your own business.
00:26:35.200
If you have your own business, you get tax write-offs, and you can do this.
00:26:38.060
I would get details about positioning yourself for taxes.
00:26:41.580
I would talk about that because you need to educate.
00:27:01.380
Here's short-term plan, mid-term plan, long-term plan.
00:27:10.640
This is why if a company doesn't offer this, look for this.
00:27:17.760
And I would bring people who are money managers to explain what would you do if you were 19,
00:27:23.600
20 years old to make sure by 45 years old you're set financially or 55 years old.
00:27:28.060
And I would have three experts with three different philosophies teaching.
00:27:33.560
Professionals is who would be teaching to them in the subject of finance.
00:27:37.560
Another thing I'd be teaching, I'd be teaching kids how to vote.
00:27:39.600
You know, a lot of kids don't know how to vote.
00:27:40.820
They're just kind of sitting there saying, well, do I vote Republican, Democrat this?
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You know, am I a Democrat because my family's a Democrat?
00:27:50.080
So I would have, I would have a Republican, a Democrat, and an independent come.
00:27:56.220
Pick the top 20 most important issues that they debate.
00:27:58.560
Pick and pose the questions with no interference from the professor.
00:28:07.160
And you're processing and saying, that guy's argument makes sense.
00:28:14.060
They're going to learn more about their own political beliefs when they see the debate
00:28:18.640
And I would do this three different times with different personalities.
00:28:21.120
So it's not the strongest Democrat wins or the strongest Republicans wins.
00:28:25.700
Somebody wins each time, a different person wins, and then they're going to be able to
00:28:30.600
I would have a capitalist, a communist, and a socialist debate in front of the kids.
00:28:35.180
I would pay $100,000 a year for my kids to go to that school.
00:28:40.380
A lot of times professors will lean towards atheism or agnostic or certain religion, and
00:28:45.620
they will impose that on their kids, and they'll mock maybe someone who believes in God,
00:28:49.360
or vice versa, somebody who doesn't believe in God.
00:28:51.360
Regardless, I would have an atheist, a Christian, a Catholic, a Mormon.
00:28:59.360
And maybe the kid at the end is going to come out and say, everybody's saying the same thing.
00:29:02.500
Maybe the kid's going to come out and say, wait a minute.
00:29:14.460
Then they're going to be able to make an assessment for themselves.
00:29:19.460
Why don't we start teaching kids how to parent as adults, young adults at 18, 19 years old?
00:29:29.600
Teaching them by a person who has raised great kids, been married for 30 years, raised great kids,
00:29:40.600
And then bring the kids that have done very well, and they talk about how their parents raised them.
00:29:45.240
So maybe you have the kids there, and have the parents there, and kids are asking questions.
00:29:49.160
These 18, 19, 20, 21, 22-year-olds are asking questions.
00:29:59.720
And then these parents are also going to say, don't expect to go back home and say,
00:30:03.220
Call your mom and dad and say, hey, your mom sucks.
00:30:07.560
They're also going to say, don't expect perfection from your parents.
00:30:09.700
So you can also sit there, and the kid's going to say, you know what?
00:30:13.660
I need to call and tell my mom how much I love her.
00:30:17.260
And then it's also, I'm going to learn how to parent my kids like this.
00:30:29.240
They get into heated, heated debates and battles and arguments over politics.
00:30:36.940
They lose their relationship with their kids because nobody is teaching this stuff when we're
00:30:47.980
Why not raise the standards and teach it at all schools?
00:30:54.100
That's what I'm saying, to add it to the curriculum.
00:30:56.520
If you want my three-and-a-half-year-old and two-year-old right now, and I've got one
00:30:59.740
in the oven right now, if you want me as a parent to say, yeah, I'm going to send my
00:31:03.580
kids to school, why don't we do something about that curriculum now?
00:31:06.440
So by then, we're endorsing kids going to school.
00:31:08.480
Okay, maybe we are going to send our kids to school for four years because you're teaching
00:31:12.500
Because you're doing these things that we need to be doing.
00:31:16.300
So that's my opinion on what I think about college.
00:31:19.960
I don't expect you to fully agree with everything.
00:31:21.920
I may be wrong with every one of the things I shared.
00:31:24.360
I could absolutely be wrong with everything I shared with you here today, and I'm okay
00:31:27.880
All I'm saying is, let's open the discussion and start talking about these types of things.
00:31:34.200
I got when I wrote the question and I said, why should somebody drop out or stay in school?
00:31:40.580
I'll share three of them with you very quickly.
00:31:42.160
First one is Douglas Dale, who's a managing partner in Arizona somewhere.
00:31:47.200
And he came back and he said this, when it comes down to it, I'm a recent graduate with
00:31:51.260
two degrees, one in business and one in communication.
00:31:53.060
While I would agree that any and all of skills I learned could have been obtained in real world,
00:31:57.440
there is still quite a bit that couldn't learn that I did in education.
00:32:01.260
More employers look for degrees to create a benchmark within their businesses, while others
00:32:05.420
When it comes down to society, we are all on an unlevel playing field.
00:32:09.100
Either you have a degree or experience, but neither is more correct than the other.
00:32:11.860
It really depends on the career choice you make as the individual.
00:32:15.000
I was raised on education and told that at my bank, I need to get a degree.
00:32:19.040
I am now in process of getting my dual MBAs because I see it as a good route for me and
00:32:31.200
He said, I have a college degree, but I really think that it was not really useful and
00:32:34.340
didn't prepare me for what I went through in the real world.
00:32:37.140
I have learned everything with experience, but I think college gives you some skill that
00:32:47.860
He said, I'm a dropout not because I wanted, but I didn't have enough money to fund my education.
00:32:51.960
I was only left with two subjects to complete my degree.
00:32:53.740
This has been a blessing in disguise because since I left school, I was placed the value hard
00:32:59.320
This has brought me closer to many opportunities.
00:33:01.060
I always have to work hard because I'm not a graduate, regardless of how much I know.
00:33:06.220
Being a dropout also helped me understand that the real world owes me nothing.
00:33:19.540
College is an important and beautiful stage, but if you only plan to rely on a degree, this
00:33:25.420
Today, the people live in the safety of the house, then move to the safety of the college,
00:33:28.800
then move to the safety of a company, and the problem is that people don't live and don't
00:33:32.600
take experience in the real world, don't expand the context and realities, don't achieve their
00:33:38.080
How we're in college, you have the opportunity to make friends, build a relation for the
00:33:40.760
future, learn to read and create the habit a bit more, but the principal problem that
00:33:44.460
I see in college is the fact that we are evaluated on independent ratings, and we tend
00:33:47.900
to be alone and not cooperate with a group interesting in the real world to grow and to succeed.
00:33:53.280
We need to cooperate and work with them as a team.
00:33:54.800
And you know what, the college is a good thing, good and important thing, and it's only my
00:34:00.560
It would be good for students that they choose their courses and make the perfect career for
00:34:04.200
themselves and evaluate the rating by groups, create the system in a challenge, is a challenge,
00:34:10.280
So I pass the ball on colleges and invite them to take up the challenge of making a modern
00:34:19.280
Very, very impressed with your comments by everybody.
00:34:26.940
I welcome you to share this with college students, with high school kids, with parents,
00:34:31.520
with anybody who's an educator involved in that world, and even any politicians that you
00:34:36.740
know, to hear this concept out and start talking about it.
00:34:39.700
All around the world, this is not something that's just an American thing.
00:34:42.200
This is a worldly thing that we need to improve in and start talking about things that really,
00:34:47.860
If you're somebody that's thinking about going to college, you're currently in college, or you're
00:34:51.140
a parent, go to my website, patrickbaydavid.com.
00:34:54.100
I have a questionnaire prepared for you to ask.
00:35:02.780
And it's a questionnaire to go through, and you get a score at the end, and based on that
00:35:06.780
score, it'll tell you to either stay in school or drop out.
00:35:10.800
And once you take the test, I encourage you to share it with other people and have other
00:35:16.120
And by the way, if you haven't already subscribed to Valuetainment on iTunes, please do so.
00:35:23.760
And if you have any questions for me that you may have, you can always find me on Snapchat,
00:35:31.700
And I actually do respond back when you snap me or send me a message on Instagram.