Valuetainment - Episode 283： London Gangster Reveals The Mob Life in Britain (David Courtney)

00:00:00.000 30 seconds, one time for the underdog, ignition sequence start, let me see you put em up, reach

00:00:09.220 the sky, turn the stars up above, cause it's one time for the underdog, one time for the

00:00:16.220 underdog.

00:00:17.240 I'm Patrick B. David, host of Value Tame, and today I sat down with somebody who considers

00:00:21.860 themselves a mafioso, a gangster, but a gangster from New York who did security for Cray Twins,

00:00:29.220 one of them when they had their funeral, he's the one that brought a thousand security guards,

00:00:33.040 that's David Courtney, this man is full of stories, so get ready to be entertained on

00:00:36.940 this podcast.

00:00:37.740 How are you, sir?

00:00:38.320 Pleased to meet you, my friend.

00:00:38.980 Yes, it's good to meet you.

00:00:40.020 Yeah, you're good.

00:00:40.600 You have a very interesting resume.

00:00:42.600 A very interesting resume.

00:00:43.800 Very interesting resume.

00:00:44.960 Yeah, and I'm afraid half of it's true.

00:00:47.520 See, that's what makes it interesting, the fact that half of it, if 10% of it is true,

00:00:52.480 it's interesting, let alone half of it.

00:00:54.120 So, when I read up on you, you know, you see the word celebrity gangster, you work security

00:01:00.400 with the Cray Twins, Cray Twins, the movie in America, you know, with Tom Hardy, I think

00:01:04.840 it was called Legend, is what it was called, and some of the movies about him, a real neat

00:01:09.000 movie.

00:01:09.720 You've associated with some interesting people in your life.

00:01:12.220 How did you become a gangster?

00:01:14.580 Like, how did you get into this world yourself?

00:01:15.920 Um, I don't really think you can blame your environment of how you turned naughty.

00:01:21.300 You can't say there was no green areas for me to play on, and the classrooms were too

00:01:25.500 packed, so I ended up robbing the post office.

00:01:27.860 You can't say that.

00:01:28.560 You're born naughty.

00:01:29.820 Oh, you're born.

00:01:30.400 You're saying you're born naughty.

00:01:31.260 Yeah, I do say that.

00:01:32.360 Oh, you believe that?

00:01:33.200 I truly believe that.

00:01:34.400 So, you don't think it's association?

00:01:35.480 My mum and dad are God-fearing Cub and Scout leaders, so there is no reason at all I ended

00:01:42.720 up like this.

00:01:43.340 I was born with the genes that are just in me.

00:01:46.800 I cannot blame Scarface or a computer game or a rapper for my behaviour.

00:01:53.400 Yeah?

00:01:54.280 It might influence me if I'm skinked.

00:01:56.560 I can't blame it on that because you are born naughty.

00:01:59.260 And the people that are not born naughty, that try to be naughty, they're the ones that

00:02:04.140 ended up being snitches and cowards and doing the wrong thing on the day and making the deal

00:02:09.940 with the police.

00:02:10.520 And that word, celebrity gangster, that is a media word.

00:02:14.340 The two words don't go, celebrity gangsters.

00:02:17.120 It's like saying police intelligence.

00:02:19.500 The two words just don't go.

00:02:21.740 But I read something about at nine years old, you had something that inspired you.

00:02:26.280 Something happened that inspired you at around nine years old.

00:02:29.640 What was that?

00:02:30.480 What took place?

00:02:31.120 Was there any specific event?

00:02:32.400 I can't actually get one event.

00:02:34.480 I'm afraid, however cocky this might sound, you do actually get natural leaders and natural

00:02:40.420 soldiers.

00:02:41.480 Yeah?

00:02:41.780 I agree with that.

00:02:42.460 You've got to know what you are as quick as possible and try not to be put into the

00:02:46.380 wrong category because each one is exactly the same importance as the other one.

00:02:53.100 And luckily, I am a leader.

00:02:54.900 At a very early age, I realized that the art of delegation is as important as the days of

00:03:01.380 the best fighter was the one in charge of the firm.

00:03:04.080 That is very Neanderthal.

00:03:05.900 That's a bit Conan.

00:03:07.260 Conan is a barbarian.

00:03:08.580 You know, always the best fighter on the firm isn't always the most intelligent.

00:03:13.080 Maybe he's a little bit, not the sharpest pencil in the box, yeah?

00:03:15.880 But, you know, and it's horses for courses.

00:03:18.220 And I was very good at delegating who, what, where.

00:03:21.840 At what age?

00:03:22.460 At what age did you identify that?

00:03:23.900 At least you're born with that.

00:03:25.460 You can't learn that.

00:03:27.040 But are you the older brother?

00:03:28.940 I'm the older brother, yeah.

00:03:30.400 I'm not a massive family.

00:03:31.860 One brother, one sister.

00:03:32.980 One brother, one sister.

00:03:34.360 Did you have a lot of cousins?

00:03:35.340 Did you have a lot of cousins?

00:03:35.960 Yeah, I had a lot of cousins.

00:03:36.920 But I was definitely the black sheep of the family.

00:03:40.280 My biggest weapon that I have, I can read you quicker than you would f***ing want me to.

00:03:45.940 Sorry.

00:03:46.780 I could read you quicker than you would want me to.

00:03:49.460 And humor is of maximum importance to me, yeah?

00:03:53.840 Laughing, keeping it funny, keeping it on a good bounce in every single thing I do.

00:03:59.980 Whether you're sitting outside a house waiting to shoot someone,

00:04:02.820 you can either be sitting there shitting yourself or just try and keep it good humoured, yeah?

00:04:07.140 I never know what problem is going to knock on my door 24 hours a day.

00:04:11.080 And as long as I am ticking over in a good, happy, bouncy mood all day long,

00:04:15.480 I handle all them problems better that I'm in a good mood than I am if I'm walking around with the ump.

00:04:20.580 I don't do that, yeah?

00:04:22.560 Most of the people I know do, but I don't do that.

00:04:25.040 You didn't touch the drugs?

00:04:25.640 That's not my thing.

00:04:26.620 Really?

00:04:27.080 Yeah, I'm not saying I'm, no, no, no, I don't do that.

00:04:29.260 I'm not saying I haven't had a puff, I don't have a good drink now and then, yeah,

00:04:32.540 I've watched it turn heroes of mine into arseholes.

00:04:37.600 I don't do that and I don't ever want to be in a position where,

00:04:41.300 because of what I tell people to do gets done,

00:04:44.300 that I ever have to make a decision while I'm wired, yeah?

00:04:47.580 And I went, well, just put an hole in him and I didn't really mean that just because I was flying.

00:04:52.820 Got it.

00:04:53.020 I don't do that.

00:04:54.400 What you see is what you get, yeah?

00:04:56.220 That is a very unenviable way to live.

00:04:58.740 You're February 1759, is that one, February 1759?

00:05:01.860 Yeah, wow, yeah, you're good.

00:05:02.720 So I watched to see, connect the dots, to see where does your wiring come from?

00:05:07.720 So obviously it's not your parents because your parents are, you said, God-fearing,

00:05:11.560 you know, good people doing what they're doing and you learned at an early age that you had the delegation part.

00:05:17.320 So when would you say was the first time you committed your first crime where you're like,

00:05:21.280 you know what, I enjoy doing it.

00:05:22.520 Was there something that you enjoyed?

00:05:23.880 Listen, I never looked at it as crime.

00:05:25.760 Okay.

00:05:26.280 I was enjoying myself.

00:05:27.860 I was being center of attraction.

00:05:30.260 I didn't look at it as I was being extra brave or I was the courageous one, yeah?

00:05:35.560 I didn't realize I was gifted at having a fight until quite later on in my life.

00:05:40.160 I never had to.

00:05:40.980 I hung around with all the big kids, all the naughty kids, 13, 14, and 15, my friends were 20.

00:05:46.960 So I never had to have a fight.

00:05:48.300 They were all doing it for me.

00:05:49.420 How old was your first fight?

00:05:50.440 How old were you?

00:05:51.180 Oh, I can't remember.

00:05:51.940 You have your fights at school and all that, but that's not worth talking about.

00:05:54.720 But the first real battle, right?

00:05:56.080 It sounded like a real fight, like a...

00:05:57.600 Oh, the first real battle I had was with a builder one day in a pub who had the belt

00:06:02.020 on with the hammer and the screwdrivers.

00:06:05.560 And it just looked like the scariest thing in the world, you know what I mean?

00:06:08.900 And it was the first real man-to-man battle I can remember having to have.

00:06:12.920 Now, you're famous for saying you can outfight and outdance almost any man.

00:06:17.180 You've said that, you said...

00:06:18.300 But I cheat.

00:06:19.200 I use a knuckle duster.

00:06:20.420 Uh-huh.

00:06:21.000 Yeah?

00:06:21.420 That's my choice of weapon.

00:06:22.480 Gives you an edge.

00:06:22.820 I truly believe in this.

00:06:24.040 If you are someone that has to carry a weapon for your day job, a prison officer, a dormant,

00:06:29.160 a debt collector, a soldier, whatever, you must choose the weapon that you are prepared

00:06:34.400 to do the prison sentence for, right?

00:06:36.520 What I mean by that is if you choose to carry a gun or a knife, forget the time you're going

00:06:41.560 to pull the knife and save your life, what will most probably happen is you'll be driving

00:06:45.560 down the road, hit someone up the arse in his new car, he will jump out of his car, drag

00:06:50.140 you out, stop banging you, and you would, if you had it in your pocket, go, right, and

00:06:55.460 get 20 years because you dented his bumper, yeah?

00:06:57.780 If he was walking around Tesco's and you trod on his foot and he just had a corn operation

00:07:02.160 and he turned around and started beating you up and you had it in your pocket, you would

00:07:05.820 go and get 20 years because you, right, so don't carry the weapon you don't want to

00:07:10.660 do the prison sentence for, a knuckle duster, you will go bang, knock him out, and that's

00:07:16.320 it.

00:07:16.880 He ain't going to die, his jaw will go over there, you might get 18 months, and I don't

00:07:21.440 mind getting 18 months every time I have a fight, but I'm not going to risk getting

00:07:25.400 life imprisonment every time I have to fight somebody.

00:07:28.380 You're that calculating?

00:07:29.700 Whatever you want to call it, choose the weapon you don't mind doing the bird for, yeah?

00:07:35.820 And I don't mind getting 18 months here doing it as if I get caught, but because I wrapped

00:07:39.780 mine up in plaster and no one ever saw that I had it on, they just thought I was the best

00:07:43.500 puncher in the world, you know, knocking them out all over the place, yeah?

00:07:47.080 And I run a big team of doormen in London just before the rave scene it, so I had about

00:07:52.660 800 flat-nosed, bald-headed thugs working for me, and I was like a job centre in the week,

00:07:59.600 so on a Friday, Saturday and Sunday night, they were doormen, but all week they just

00:08:03.880 sat at home in the gym.

00:08:05.560 So if anyone wanted somebody beat up, their car repossessed, some squatters thrown out,

00:08:12.160 whatever, yeah?

00:08:13.860 You might not know to ask, but you know the doormen of the nightclub, you know, the eight

00:08:18.480 guys all standing there like that, they will either do it, or they will know where to point

00:08:23.140 to get it done.

00:08:24.200 So all of a sudden I had a 900 strong army.

00:08:27.700 Reporting to you, these security.

00:08:28.740 Reporting to me, yeah, yeah.

00:08:29.960 And then the rave scene came in, you know, acid, and the drug scene came in.

00:08:33.960 What year is that?

00:08:34.660 What year is the rave scene?

00:08:35.500 Late 80s?

00:08:36.460 Yeah, yeah, mid-80s, yeah, yeah.

00:08:38.280 Yeah.

00:08:38.560 Well, you're earning 150 pound a night as a wages as a doormen, yeah?

00:08:43.580 Now they were selling these E's in the nightclub at 20 pounds each, and it was the doormen

00:08:50.660 that controlled that, yeah?

00:08:51.700 They're the doormen controlled, you can come in and sell them, right?

00:08:55.660 I get X amount of pounds for letting you do that, and I will do my job and throw everyone

00:09:00.200 else out that's selling them.

00:09:01.940 So I look like I'm doing my job, the police are happy with me, I'm throwing them out at

00:09:05.580 everyone, but I'm leaving you in there, you give me a thousand pound a night to sell them,

00:09:10.420 and that way you'll have no other competition in there.

00:09:13.400 So, and then all of a sudden you're earning four or five grand a night.

00:09:17.920 So now it's worth getting involved in a drug war for, when there's people turning up going,

00:09:23.260 I want to be the doormen here with guns, we want to run this club.

00:09:26.420 It's worth fighting for, because you're now going home with a thousand pound a night wages.

00:09:30.880 Yeah, so you're involved in drug wars, then it all goes, it's a slow process, but it turned

00:09:37.180 into that way, and then my army of debt collectors, car repossession, foreign squatters out, turned

00:09:44.400 into an army in the authorities' eyes of drug-deaning English gangsters, which I suppose we molded

00:09:53.400 into, but didn't set out to be, do you understand what I mean?

00:09:56.060 Yeah.

00:09:56.560 No one set out to be, I want to go and be a G.

00:09:58.740 Yeah, nobody does want to be a G, but sometimes, like you said something earlier, so, I mean,

00:10:03.860 that's late 80s, early 90s, let's go back a little bit.

00:10:06.640 So let me ask you, say I'm in high school with you, okay, we're 16, 17 years old, who

00:10:12.060 were you in high school?

00:10:13.060 I was the funniest guy in high school, I was the court jester, and I've handled the court

00:10:17.040 jester thing in the big gangster situations I've been in, in life-threatening situations

00:10:22.240 I've been in, when I've been in the Old Bailey, at the Old Bailey, I went dressed as a court

00:10:27.420 jester, with the bells, and knocked the policeman out in the court, yeah, I've been, when I've

00:10:32.400 been in prison, I've played the court jester in prison.

00:10:35.880 It's kept me out of trouble, I haven't had to hang around with the blacks, the whites,

00:10:39.400 the Muslims, the non-Muslims, the hard nuts, the cowards, the gay, I was a court jester,

00:10:44.880 I was everyone, yeah?

00:10:45.880 Giggly, jokey, laughing, when it comes down to being serious, then I can be as serious

00:10:50.080 as anyone else, if not, I have a very, very scary phone book, mate, yeah?

00:10:54.180 It's not what I can do anymore, is it?

00:10:56.120 It's not that.

00:10:57.120 It's who I can fucking men up, so.

00:10:59.680 Does that go all the way back to then as well, or no?

00:11:01.680 Yeah, of course, yes, it's what you can call up.

00:11:03.880 That's what makes you important, that's what makes you scary, yeah?

00:11:06.960 If I can call on the Russians, the Albanians, the Somalians, the Chinese, the Yadi, if I

00:11:13.500 can call them up, I don't have to be a good fighter, I'll just get you fucked up on my

00:11:17.800 telephone.

00:11:18.800 They say, choose a weapon, let me get to something, if you let me get to my phone, I don't care

00:11:23.080 what situation I'm in, what country I'm in, if you let me get to my phone, I can fuck you.

00:11:29.280 So choice of weapon has changed to a phone now?

00:11:31.360 Telephones, 100%, 100%, let me get that and I'll beat you.

00:11:35.860 Wow.

00:11:36.860 Like you said, you have to be born with it, which is great, but you said something earlier,

00:11:39.840 you said, I never touched a blow, I never touched a coke.

00:11:43.440 I never touched a coke, I've had a puff, I've done that, but listen, listen, coke is the weirdest

00:11:48.280 drug in the world for me to actually even understand.

00:11:50.280 Because any drug you take, if you take acid, you know you've had a bit of acid.

00:11:56.460 If you smoke a bit of weed, you know you've had a bit of weed.

00:11:59.160 If you've had a bit of Amphet, you know you've had a bit of Amphet.

00:12:02.160 If you have a bit of cocaine and you go alright, they say, I'm alright, nothing wrong with me,

00:12:06.160 I'm cool.

00:12:07.160 Well I don't want to be f***ing cool if I've paid £50 for something, I want to feel something,

00:12:11.780 but cocaine makes you think you're alright.

00:12:14.400 You feel like you can shag everything in the room, but you can't get an ard on.

00:12:18.280 It just makes you talk like a complete b**k.

00:12:19.960 If you ever get arrested while on cocaine, the hardest thing in the world to do is go,

00:12:25.280 no comment.

00:12:26.280 No, I'm not saying nothing.

00:12:29.540 I'll tell you a little bit.

00:12:31.020 I'll tell you a little bit.

00:12:32.020 Yeah, what is that?

00:12:33.020 What is that?

00:12:34.020 And they're walking around saying there's nothing wrong with it.

00:12:36.180 No one who takes cocaine, and you ever say to them, how do you feel, and they go, I'm

00:12:39.740 out my nut.

00:12:40.740 They don't say that, they say I'm alright.

00:12:42.260 I don't want a drug that makes me be alright.

00:12:45.340 I took it for something.

00:12:48.060 And it's the only drug in the world that you give it away.

00:12:51.080 You don't go up to the counter and buy a pint of lager and say to someone,

00:12:54.280 do you want half of that?

00:12:55.260 Or you go shopping and get half your shopping and put it in another bag and go have that.

00:12:58.880 But if you get cocaine, every time you go and have a bit and that's all,

00:13:01.520 it'll go, do you want some?

00:13:02.780 And you give half of it away.

00:13:04.280 It's the most expensive drug there is.

00:13:07.460 And that's the one that you give it away before you've even took it.

00:13:11.180 You're giving half of it away.

00:13:12.120 Do you want a line?

00:13:12.600 Do you want a line?

00:13:13.640 No one snips off and has it.

00:13:14.920 You go off and make sure you find someone to give half of it away to.

00:13:19.380 It's f***ing crazy.

00:13:21.000 It ain't got a bit of me.

00:13:22.700 We have a different perspective.

00:13:24.240 Yeah.

00:13:24.380 But you were saying, you said the reason you didn't do it is because you saw so many of your heroes.

00:13:29.740 So I need some pushes like that.

00:13:31.020 So who were some of your heroes?

00:13:32.420 Well, I've still got some, but I don't want to put them in the same category.

00:13:36.980 Of course.

00:13:37.740 Sure, you can categorize them if you want to.

00:13:40.020 Yeah, I mean, I was a very close friend of the Cray twins.

00:13:43.340 Okay.

00:13:43.540 Charlie Cray lived in my house.

00:13:45.740 I was his character reference in his last court case.

00:13:49.520 He got 12 years.

00:13:50.760 It didn't do him a little good.

00:13:52.400 I buried Ronnie Cray.

00:13:54.000 I'd done all the security for his funeral.

00:13:55.820 That propelled me into sort of naughty boy stardom.

00:14:00.040 Why do you think that is?

00:14:00.920 Is it because of that?

00:14:01.460 Well, not what I think it is.

00:14:02.220 I said exactly what happened.

00:14:03.280 Please.

00:14:03.480 I'll give you a little running of how Dave Courtney grew, yeah?

00:14:07.540 Sure.

00:14:07.960 I'm doing the doorman, yeah?

00:14:09.280 I'm doing this doorman thing.

00:14:11.200 I made one little documentary about, it's called The Bermondsey Boy.

00:14:15.240 And it was about a man preparing to go to prison.

00:14:18.220 And they were filming me doing the doors.

00:14:21.520 And they knew I was going to go to prison.

00:14:23.220 There were seven witnesses against me.

00:14:25.260 And they had permission from the home office to film me when I come out.

00:14:28.580 And whether prison had worked.

00:14:30.300 And how many friends stayed loyal and all that.

00:14:32.800 And on the day before I went to prison, somebody visited all these witnesses and they didn't turn up.

00:14:37.420 So they'd done this documentary of Dave Courtney the debt collector, car repossession, rent a clump, you know, and all that.

00:14:44.900 So they got all the bad bits.

00:14:46.720 And then it was going to be easy to make it look like I was a reformed character.

00:14:51.320 Because they filmed so much bad.

00:14:52.960 But then I got not guilty.

00:14:54.420 But they didn't know what to do with the documentary.

00:14:56.020 So they just put this documentary on the telly.

00:14:58.060 This is 30 years ago.

00:14:59.500 Of this raving lunatic running around doing all these things with thousands of bald-headed blokes all on his side.

00:15:05.860 And what made me different is I'm multiracial myself, yeah.

00:15:09.840 My wife is Jamaican.

00:15:11.080 You know, I have my own mixed-race children.

00:15:13.640 So at that time, white skinheads and black men weren't really genuinely on the best of frame of mind.

00:15:20.700 There was genuine real racism.

00:15:22.700 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:15:23.720 This is 80s?

00:15:24.520 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:15:25.160 Early, you know.

00:15:25.880 My choice of lady made my army multiracial.

00:15:28.900 Yeah, they didn't mind working for me.

00:15:30.840 So I had 600 big black guys, 600 Muslims, 800 white fellas.

00:15:36.660 You know what I mean?

00:15:37.040 It didn't matter to me.

00:15:37.860 You're on my side.

00:15:39.280 If you, if you, the Marines take on all comers, don't they?

00:15:42.480 You understand me?

00:15:43.200 You're all fighting for the same cause.

00:15:44.860 But you're that, you're that, you're that.

00:15:46.100 And that's exactly the same as what I, my army grew.

00:15:48.340 The reputation grew because of the documentary.

00:15:50.960 The Kray twins wanted to get to know me.

00:15:53.900 So I went to go and see them.

00:15:55.240 I was running all the door, all the nightclubs, the string fellows, the Hippodrome, the Ministry

00:15:59.800 of Sound, all my dormers.

00:16:01.600 And they wanted a little bit of it.

00:16:03.080 You understand what I mean?

00:16:03.760 And to do that, they had to get on with me.

00:16:05.680 Well, I was a young, impressionable man at the time.

00:16:08.240 Couldn't believe I'm going to meet the Krays.

00:16:10.060 It's like you go, yeah.

00:16:11.240 How old were you at the time, the first time you met him?

00:16:13.300 About 26, something like that.

00:16:15.480 You were 26 when you first met him?

00:16:16.700 Yeah, yeah.

00:16:17.180 And at that time, were they in London, were they gods?

00:16:20.180 No, no, they were all in prison then.

00:16:21.880 Oh, they were in prison.

00:16:22.720 Okay, got it.

00:16:23.400 Let me explain this.

00:16:24.800 No one or nothing is as big as a myth.

00:16:28.060 No one or nothing is as big as a myth.

00:16:31.140 Not the Kray twins, not Dave Courtney, maybe not even John Gotti, Al Capone.

00:16:35.160 Yeah, I mean, not as big as the myth.

00:16:37.100 You know, or as romantic, the real nitty-gritty bit isn't the same, yeah?

00:16:41.860 Crime is only glamorous in a book or on a big screen.

00:16:44.700 It's not really.

00:16:46.760 You know what I mean?

00:16:47.340 Absolutely.

00:16:47.700 It's not really.

00:16:48.880 This propelled me into like a naughty boy stardom thing, yeah?

00:16:53.720 And so now the Kray twins died.

00:16:55.440 Now, I looked at that as the biggest and best security job,

00:16:59.280 because I had a security company, that I was ever going to get.

00:17:02.000 There's CNN driving around.

00:17:03.360 And most criminals are supposed to conduct themselves like this.

00:17:08.580 They stay in the shadows with their collar up, no pictures, no comment.

00:17:12.920 You know, it's a dirty business and all that.

00:17:15.480 And I chose the best 150 army that I could choose to do the security for that.

00:17:22.100 I had Mr Glasgow, Mr Newcastle, Mr Liverpool, Mr London, Mr Brighton,

00:17:27.700 Mr Leeds, Mr Manchester.

00:17:29.480 These were, listen, when I see them all meet at my house in the morning,

00:17:34.120 I want you to invade Iraq.

00:17:35.780 You know, I'm too old to say that, but, wow, it made you hard.

00:17:40.560 Yeah, you're looking at them and it's like, I'm looking at it as the best show of force you can get.

00:17:46.500 They're all coming there to show respect to the Bronny Cray, yeah?

00:17:51.780 You know, the sort of, you know, the mythical king of the underworld.

00:17:55.040 And a lot of these people never really got on with each other.

00:17:57.440 But for that day, and there was three quarters of a million people there,

00:18:00.080 and I needed a proper little 150.

00:18:02.100 Three quarters of a million.

00:18:02.880 A million.

00:18:03.260 Three quarters of a million people there.

00:18:04.920 Yeah, come to see Ronnie Craig at bed.

00:18:07.840 As many as Lady Diane Winston Churchill.

00:18:09.760 And I had a meeting with the chief of police.

00:18:11.700 And you know they say things in your life that you wish you could cut your tongue out,

00:18:16.380 because you should never have said it.

00:18:18.240 Sure.

00:18:19.080 My big one was I had a meeting with the chief of police at the time.

00:18:23.000 And I was sitting there talking away about the security and blah, blah, blah.

00:18:26.700 And my little cocky attitude, yeah?

00:18:28.720 It was sitting there with Charlie Cray and myself and all these other people.

00:18:32.780 And he said, well, the one thing that we've got, Mr. Courtney,

00:18:36.700 that you haven't, that your little band of men haven't got.

00:18:41.220 And I went, I'll do a minute.

00:18:42.080 I said, before we start being rude to each other, I said,

00:18:43.680 the truth is this, I'm only trying to help you.

00:18:45.480 I said, the church holds 250 people.

00:18:49.160 There's going to be a million out there.

00:18:50.620 If you don't know the right 250 people to let in,

00:18:53.300 they are going to get the hump of them policemen, yeah?

00:18:55.060 And if that policeman says, you can come to the hole in the ground at the cemetery

00:18:58.980 and you've got to wait outside, if you say that to the wrong person,

00:19:02.420 they are not, you know, they're not policemen fans.

00:19:05.020 Right?

00:19:05.200 So I think the best thing you lot can do is line the streets

00:19:07.780 and leave the security of this to me and mine,

00:19:10.440 because I know what I'm talking about and who I'm talking to.

00:19:13.280 Who do you let come into the funeral parlour and kiss Ronnie's dead body

00:19:16.520 and who do you say no to?

00:19:17.900 If you're saying no to the wrong person,

00:19:19.500 you're going to get smacked in the mouth, mate.

00:19:21.580 You're telling this to them, to the chief, yeah.

00:19:23.280 And he's not liking it,

00:19:24.900 but he can't argue with me or saying it a bit nicely back,

00:19:27.600 because he's chief of police.

00:19:28.960 So he has to talk to me like that, yeah, right?

00:19:30.780 So he went, well, the one thing we have got, Mr. Corpney,

00:19:34.260 that your little band of men haven't.

00:19:36.660 He said, not everyone is a Kraytwin fan.

00:19:39.260 He said, there could be an assassination attempt.

00:19:41.980 And the one thing we've got that you haven't got,

00:19:43.740 he said, is firearms.

00:19:44.440 Now, could I cut my tongue out?

00:19:49.320 What I said was, please, let me tell you something.

00:19:52.640 The one thing you've got that we haven't got

00:19:54.360 is firearms certificates.

00:19:55.900 I said, we've all got a gun.

00:19:57.520 And I shouldn't have said that.

00:20:00.040 I shouldn't have said that,

00:20:01.100 because that made me an instant enemy of someone that,

00:20:04.540 from that day on, he went, destroy Dave Corpney, yeah?

00:20:08.460 Destroy anything he does or things.

00:20:10.780 That hurt me.

00:20:11.460 That genuinely collapsed my little world in that comment, all right?

00:20:14.940 But for that day, instead of hiding in the shadows and the thing,

00:20:18.240 I made it that the world is looking at this funeral.

00:20:21.180 They're looking at all me and mine to pick it up, yeah?

00:20:24.400 And I was determined to give you lot,

00:20:27.480 over there in America, something to look at.

00:20:29.700 You understand what I mean?

00:20:30.440 When John Gotti got buried, I sat and watched it all day, yeah?

00:20:33.300 You understand what I mean?

00:20:34.080 Not my telly.

00:20:34.720 Of course.

00:20:35.100 I knew you were going to,

00:20:36.100 so I made sure you had something to look at.

00:20:38.580 But what I didn't realise is that the authorities,

00:20:41.000 the police looked at that as the very first time

00:20:45.180 of visual proof of organised crime.

00:20:48.700 They said that's one criminal

00:20:50.060 celebrating the life of another criminal

00:20:52.560 has organised all these other criminals

00:20:54.760 to come down here and do their thing.

00:20:57.120 That's organised crime.

00:20:58.420 Let me ask you, at that time,

00:20:59.400 was it public in London?

00:21:00.940 Was it public already that there was organised crime?

00:21:03.040 Did they all know about it?

00:21:03.920 Did they talk about it?

00:21:04.780 At what extent it could be if it wanted to, yeah?

00:21:07.360 With the invention of the mobile phone

00:21:09.460 and the computers and all that shit.

00:21:11.000 Yeah, but no one actually knew

00:21:12.000 how organised crime could be

00:21:13.540 until there was visual proof of it.

00:21:16.120 The police might have had odd little things of,

00:21:18.500 wow, wow, wow, and they knew things.

00:21:19.780 But the general public was not aware of...

00:21:21.880 Really?

00:21:22.160 One man could call up all the firms in London

00:21:25.860 and England and Scotland and Wales and Ireland,

00:21:28.500 the Yardies and IRA and Triads and f***ing Yakuza

00:21:31.740 and all that, one man can call that up

00:21:33.500 and get them all standing at the side of a road

00:21:35.100 to protect one man.

00:21:36.820 Wow, we've never seen that before.

00:21:38.480 And that made them go, wow, as well,

00:21:40.940 and put a little clamp down on everything

00:21:43.200 that Dave Cookney done.

00:21:44.460 So that's when the populists started realising

00:21:46.940 who you are.

00:21:47.660 Yeah, yeah, the next day I was in the front page

00:21:49.620 of the paper as Celebrity Gangster,

00:21:52.180 Heir to the Throne.

00:21:53.940 F***, I don't want that title.

00:21:55.960 Where do you go after that title?

00:21:57.400 No one runs off in the gangster world

00:21:59.460 into the sunset or lives happily ever after, yeah?

00:22:02.280 You get 35 years wrapped around you

00:22:04.420 or a belly button in the forehead you didn't want.

00:22:06.620 I don't want that.

00:22:07.440 So I quickly, just as publicly,

00:22:09.840 tried to go, no, and wrote a book,

00:22:12.520 Stop the Ride, I Want to Get Off.

00:22:14.680 Yeah, I could see that

00:22:16.180 because the more famous you get for being naughty,

00:22:18.500 the less naughty you can be.

00:22:20.620 Interesting.

00:22:21.080 Right?

00:22:21.280 The more famous you get for being naughty,

00:22:22.800 the less naughty you get.

00:22:23.600 I couldn't even get out of my car

00:22:24.960 and go, bang,

00:22:25.920 to the geezer in the car behind

00:22:27.000 because everyone would say,

00:22:28.200 Dave Cookney done it.

00:22:28.940 I see him on the telly.

00:22:29.780 I know him.

00:22:30.280 I can't even be a debt collector no more.

00:22:31.900 I can't run in your house

00:22:33.140 and throw you all around the front room

00:22:34.420 and threaten you to get your money off you.

00:22:36.700 You'll go, Dave Cookney done it.

00:22:37.980 I know him.

00:22:38.400 I see him on the telly.

00:22:39.800 I can't do it.

00:22:41.340 You have to use different methods.

00:22:42.800 Like, if I then woke you up

00:22:43.920 at three in the morning

00:22:44.840 with a balaclava on,

00:22:45.740 just like where you're lying in bed

00:22:46.820 with your wife

00:22:47.280 and another couple of geezer's like,

00:22:48.340 no, excuse me.

00:22:49.100 Excuse me.

00:22:49.680 Shush, love.

00:22:50.240 Shush.

00:22:50.900 Shush.

00:22:51.880 It's about that £700,000, yeah?

00:22:54.000 Shush, love.

00:22:55.240 It's about that £700,000, mate.

00:22:57.060 I know you ain't got it

00:22:57.760 in the bedside cabinet.

00:22:58.620 I'll give you a week.

00:22:59.700 Right?

00:22:59.980 Babe, be quiet.

00:23:02.020 All right?

00:23:02.540 I'll give you a week

00:23:03.440 and I'll be back here in a week

00:23:04.540 and if I don't get it,

00:23:05.640 the next time you see me,

00:23:06.760 I'll give you an old heir.

00:23:08.020 All right?

00:23:08.280 Now, don't worry.

00:23:09.060 I won't nick no ornaments.

00:23:10.060 I won't wake the kids

00:23:11.020 but sort the f*** money out.

00:23:12.400 That was a new way of doing it

00:23:14.320 rather than running in

00:23:15.200 and going,

00:23:15.600 you owe him money

00:23:16.420 and I said,

00:23:17.360 it all went up a gear.

00:23:18.980 Do you understand what I mean?

00:23:19.820 Yeah.

00:23:20.080 Did it hurt your business?

00:23:21.340 It hurt,

00:23:21.740 it crucified my business.

00:23:23.160 Yeah, I bet it did.

00:23:23.600 They closed down my door company

00:23:25.460 the next day.

00:23:27.460 They didn't hide it.

00:23:28.300 They went into the nightclubs

00:23:29.440 and went,

00:23:29.760 you employing Dave Courtney security,

00:23:31.940 then you won't have a,

00:23:32.740 you won't have a license

00:23:33.640 for a television,

00:23:35.140 let alone a nightclub.

00:23:36.520 Sack him.

00:23:37.140 I mean,

00:23:37.400 that's the fastest way

00:23:38.160 to put you out of business.

00:23:38.980 And they did it.

00:23:39.780 They did it.

00:23:40.340 You know,

00:23:40.740 and then the school

00:23:41.700 was saying to me,

00:23:42.920 would I please

00:23:43.720 pick up my children

00:23:44.720 down the road

00:23:46.000 because they didn't want me

00:23:46.800 walking in the playground

00:23:47.800 to collect my kids

00:23:48.800 because I was unnerving

00:23:50.720 the other parents.

00:23:52.200 So how do you make money

00:23:53.120 after that?

00:23:53.760 What was your form

00:23:54.580 of making money?

00:23:55.360 Well,

00:23:55.500 my form of making money

00:23:56.400 was the debt collecting,

00:23:57.780 the car repossession,

00:23:58.760 the door company.

00:23:59.860 No,

00:24:00.040 I know,

00:24:00.300 but after that,

00:24:01.060 how do you do it?

00:24:01.500 After that,

00:24:01.520 it crucified me.

00:24:02.260 After that,

00:24:03.180 they've done everything.

00:24:04.120 So I then went

00:24:04.740 into the entertainment world.

00:24:06.400 I started doing

00:24:06.920 a bit of films,

00:24:08.360 made a couple of albums,

00:24:09.760 wrote a few books

00:24:11.480 and it was all working

00:24:13.440 because there was

00:24:14.120 freedom of the press then.

00:24:15.820 There was freedom of the press.

00:24:16.920 They could write about

00:24:17.500 anyone they wanted.

00:24:18.220 If they thought

00:24:18.640 it was interesting,

00:24:19.720 they could put me on

00:24:20.420 as guest speakers

00:24:21.380 on their show.

00:24:21.860 You were saying

00:24:22.180 there isn't today?

00:24:23.220 No,

00:24:23.400 no,

00:24:23.520 no,

00:24:23.720 of course not.

00:24:24.240 No,

00:24:24.360 no,

00:24:24.460 no.

00:24:24.640 There's now a genuine law

00:24:27.180 in England

00:24:27.980 where you cannot

00:24:28.800 glamorize crime.

00:24:30.640 So if I gave my book

00:24:31.720 to a book critic,

00:24:33.080 he would give it back to me

00:24:34.200 and say,

00:24:34.320 I'm not allowed

00:24:35.180 to do that,

00:24:36.040 Dave,

00:24:36.540 because I'm not allowed

00:24:37.340 to say it's any good.

00:24:39.340 By law,

00:24:40.060 I'm not allowed to say it.

00:24:41.040 You can do it

00:24:41.540 in your country.

00:24:42.180 In this country,

00:24:42.920 I'm not allowed

00:24:43.620 to be on any game shows,

00:24:45.240 any chat shows,

00:24:46.080 any radio.

00:24:47.140 My name is now flagged.

00:24:48.440 If anyone goes to write

00:24:49.360 about me in the press,

00:24:50.600 it has to go to

00:24:51.220 Scotland Yard first

00:24:52.060 and if it's anything,

00:24:53.400 oh,

00:24:53.680 Dave's this or Dave that,

00:24:55.100 it's not on this.

00:24:56.160 A law,

00:24:57.400 I think it's

00:24:58.040 two and a half years old.

00:24:59.900 Yeah,

00:25:00.120 go and check that one out.

00:25:01.180 It's a two and a half

00:25:01.860 year old law.

00:25:02.360 Yeah,

00:25:02.720 you cannot glamorise crime.

00:25:05.380 Virgin cannot glamorise crime.

00:25:07.900 Virgin can publish my books

00:25:10.200 but they're not allowed

00:25:11.480 to put a poster up

00:25:12.360 saying Dave Courtney's

00:25:13.120 got a new book out

00:25:13.920 because the poster

00:25:14.960 is glamorising crime.

00:25:15.860 So how do you make money?

00:25:16.720 You know,

00:25:17.060 I'm not making a lot

00:25:18.340 of money at the moment.

00:25:19.000 I'm living on what I've had.

00:25:20.380 I've got a nightclub

00:25:21.140 in my home.

00:25:22.120 I do all right

00:25:22.960 with other countries,

00:25:23.900 people like this.

00:25:24.680 I do all right.

00:25:25.900 I do all right.

00:25:26.840 I'm more of an envoy

00:25:27.860 or an ambassador.

00:25:28.820 I'm no longer

00:25:29.260 an active criminal.

00:25:30.700 They're still on my telephone.

00:25:31.900 They're still in

00:25:32.500 not last year

00:25:33.480 the year before last

00:25:34.480 I found five monitoring

00:25:35.920 devices in my house.

00:25:37.420 Five.

00:25:38.040 The army came up

00:25:38.840 and done it for me.

00:25:39.720 Five.

00:25:40.080 They're remote control.

00:25:41.080 They were the brand new ones

00:25:42.220 that they drive past

00:25:43.460 and go bing

00:25:44.020 and then you can check

00:25:45.000 your house out

00:25:45.500 and there's none in there.

00:25:46.540 All right.

00:25:46.720 And then they just drive past

00:25:47.620 and go bing

00:25:48.140 and you're live-o.

00:25:50.140 I found one in my bedroom.

00:25:51.780 One in my fucking bedroom.

00:25:52.820 Forget all the gangster

00:25:53.520 shit they heard

00:25:54.060 in the kitchen.

00:25:54.680 They heard me having

00:25:55.180 a wank mental

00:25:55.880 and they haven't laid

00:25:56.640 off me at all

00:25:57.460 because now my biggest threat

00:26:00.620 to them is I'm making

00:26:02.120 crime look glamorous.

00:26:03.580 Like I'm fucking...

00:26:05.120 Do you think you are though?

00:26:06.000 No, I'm not.

00:26:06.460 I'm not glamorizing crime.

00:26:07.700 I'm glamorizing Dave.

00:26:09.340 Yeah, I'd have been

00:26:10.120 a cocky postman.

00:26:12.240 I'd have been a cocky milkman.

00:26:13.880 I'm just having to laugh

00:26:15.240 and having to think.

00:26:15.780 I'm not glamorizing crime.

00:26:16.800 I'm telling you now.

00:26:18.060 Do not be a criminal.

00:26:19.460 Hear me all that.

00:26:20.320 I'm not glamorizing crime.

00:26:21.560 Today's a wrong time

00:26:22.460 to be a criminal.

00:26:23.140 You are not pitting your wits

00:26:24.800 against the Sherlock Holmes

00:26:25.840 policemen no more.

00:26:26.920 You're trying to beat technology

00:26:28.280 and you can't fucking do that, mate.

00:26:31.040 All right?

00:26:31.340 You can't do that.

00:26:32.000 They're taking pictures of you

00:26:33.100 from the moon.

00:26:34.520 Knock it on the head.

00:26:35.940 Don't listen to the computer game.

00:26:37.840 Tony Montana, the rapper.

00:26:40.120 They're singing about something

00:26:41.300 that's old.

00:26:42.460 Like cowboys and Indians,

00:26:44.560 knights in shining armor,

00:26:45.900 pirates.

00:26:46.420 They're all romantic gangsters

00:26:49.400 of the day.

00:26:50.120 And gangsters are

00:26:50.920 one of them words.

00:26:51.820 There's no longer any.

00:26:52.960 I'm not glamorizing it.

00:26:54.060 I'm glamorizing me.

00:26:55.120 So do you think

00:26:55.800 that's a good thing?

00:26:56.560 What?

00:26:56.820 You can't be a criminal no more?

00:26:58.100 No, I just think it's history.

00:26:59.280 You can't be a pirate no more.

00:27:00.960 You can't be a cowboy no more.

00:27:02.260 Not at that level anymore.

00:27:03.200 No, no, no.

00:27:03.700 You can't no longer

00:27:04.340 be a gangster no more.

00:27:05.680 Stop it.

00:27:06.060 There's people in pinstripe suits

00:27:07.460 now up in the city

00:27:08.500 making a million pound a day.

00:27:10.560 You're a calculating guy.

00:27:11.520 You said you use knife 20 years.

00:27:13.460 You use gun this many years.

00:27:14.840 You use brass

00:27:16.420 that's going to give you 18 months.

00:27:19.100 So you're pretty good.

00:27:19.840 Cocaine.

00:27:20.400 You do cocaine

00:27:21.060 you have to share it with somebody.

00:27:22.040 You smoke weed.

00:27:22.740 You do acid.

00:27:24.180 All this other.

00:27:24.580 You're very calculating.

00:27:26.000 It's very obvious.

00:27:26.600 You're very calculating.

00:27:27.220 So today

00:27:28.500 do you think

00:27:29.460 the internet

00:27:30.600 and what's happened

00:27:31.600 do you think

00:27:32.100 that is making

00:27:32.920 the world safer

00:27:33.820 because I'm a person

00:27:34.780 cannot be a gangster?

00:27:35.440 No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:27:36.600 So tell me

00:27:37.140 so go, go

00:27:37.760 so you

00:27:38.540 you're going to route

00:27:39.780 of the government

00:27:40.320 has more control

00:27:41.040 over the people

00:27:41.580 than you did before.

00:27:41.900 I'm saying the government

00:27:42.640 has every control

00:27:43.520 over the people.

00:27:43.960 Got it.

00:27:44.740 And if they wanted

00:27:45.640 to stop drugs

00:27:46.480 they could stop

00:27:47.140 f***ing drugs.

00:27:48.140 They didn't want

00:27:48.880 all them criminals out there.

00:27:49.880 They could stop

00:27:50.400 the criminals coming out there.

00:27:51.720 They need criminals.

00:27:52.920 The biggest employer

00:27:54.060 in America

00:27:55.140 is the legal system.

00:27:57.320 The biggest employer

00:27:58.420 for the whole of America

00:27:59.840 is the prison officers

00:28:01.300 the policemen

00:28:01.960 the traffic wardens

00:28:03.020 the solicitors

00:28:03.860 the judges

00:28:04.480 the hostels

00:28:05.380 the f***ing probation officers.

00:28:07.660 If everyone started

00:28:08.540 not parking

00:28:09.600 on a double yellow line

00:28:10.680 do you think

00:28:11.440 that England

00:28:12.140 are going to sack

00:28:12.860 one million traffic wardens?

00:28:14.760 Do you think

00:28:14.980 if they genuinely

00:28:15.740 everyone stopped

00:28:16.380 having crime

00:28:17.100 they've got to sack

00:28:18.180 50 million policemen

00:28:19.840 80,000 prison officers

00:28:21.800 that, you know

00:28:22.780 they don't want that.

00:28:24.060 They have to publicly

00:28:24.820 be seen by that

00:28:25.720 little box in the corner

00:28:26.760 to be doing the right thing.

00:28:28.800 Yeah, the computer

00:28:29.540 or whatever.

00:28:31.140 You understand

00:28:31.540 what I mean?

00:28:32.020 No, of course.

00:28:32.800 Yeah, they can convince

00:28:33.780 England

00:28:34.180 from the television

00:28:35.240 to go over

00:28:36.320 to another country

00:28:37.380 and blow it up

00:28:38.380 for weapons

00:28:39.120 of mass destruction

00:28:40.000 and then go

00:28:40.920 oh, sorry

00:28:41.440 we were wrong.

00:28:42.160 F*** off.

00:28:43.460 If they can do that

00:28:44.240 they can convince

00:28:44.960 you of anything.

00:28:46.420 I've had them

00:28:46.840 say things about me

00:28:47.800 on the telly

00:28:48.280 that I actually

00:28:48.980 went to court

00:28:49.480 with a bent policeman

00:28:50.320 and I went

00:28:51.500 I'm taping him

00:28:52.480 and he was going

00:28:53.040 to know he's paying me.

00:28:54.580 I bugged him

00:28:55.420 so I got not guilty

00:28:56.940 and the copper

00:28:57.580 went to prison.

00:28:58.460 Excuse me

00:28:58.880 can I just hold myself

00:28:59.660 when I'm saying that?

00:29:00.500 I went to court

00:29:01.640 the copper got five years

00:29:03.060 and I got not guilty

00:29:04.460 at the old Bailey.

00:29:05.840 I saw that.

00:29:06.460 Right, right.

00:29:07.240 But they were actually

00:29:07.980 rather than me

00:29:08.700 come out

00:29:09.200 and write another book

00:29:10.560 and everyone loves

00:29:11.580 Dave Courtland

00:29:11.940 they actually started

00:29:12.720 I was an informant.

00:29:14.680 I was.

00:29:16.300 Really?

00:29:16.880 Well if I answer

00:29:18.000 that with one word

00:29:18.860 yeah I've heard

00:29:19.340 I might be an informant

00:29:20.220 but who?

00:29:21.140 You can't go

00:29:21.520 if Courtney's an informant

00:29:22.720 or who did he class up?

00:29:24.220 Well I don't know

00:29:24.580 I just heard he was.

00:29:25.560 It's too big of a word

00:29:26.320 or when did he?

00:29:27.360 Yeah I've heard

00:29:28.280 that said about me

00:29:29.080 had it been believed

00:29:30.480 I'd have been shot.

00:29:32.180 The police create the rumour

00:29:33.520 or do they allow

00:29:35.060 the rumour

00:29:35.500 to come out of

00:29:36.400 Dave Courtland

00:29:37.220 he pays the police.

00:29:38.940 Dave Courtland

00:29:39.280 he's got the police

00:29:39.860 in his hand.

00:29:40.880 Yeah.

00:29:41.920 Dave Courtland

00:29:42.520 went to court

00:29:43.000 dressed as a clown

00:29:44.000 the copper went to prison

00:29:45.620 and Dave got not guilty.

00:29:47.040 Do you think

00:29:47.880 they're going to

00:29:48.260 allow that to happen

00:29:49.160 if they've got

00:29:49.960 control of the press

00:29:50.960 or do you think

00:29:51.720 they won't?

00:29:52.380 I'm asking you.

00:29:53.120 No that makes sense.

00:29:54.040 Are you familiar

00:29:54.600 with the Donnie Brasco story

00:29:55.860 Joe Pistone

00:29:56.440 where the FBI

00:29:57.800 goes to Lefty

00:29:58.840 and they say

00:29:59.420 he is an informant

00:30:01.200 and Lefty

00:30:02.200 doesn't believe it

00:30:02.760 but he ends up

00:30:03.460 being an informant

00:30:04.240 and in this case

00:30:04.880 you're saying

00:30:05.280 you're not.

00:30:06.320 By the way

00:30:06.760 what was your friction

00:30:07.820 with Frankie Frazier

00:30:09.440 what was the friction there?

00:30:10.540 The truth about it

00:30:12.680 always is

00:30:13.220 Frankie Frazier's wife

00:30:14.640 run off with my doorman

00:30:15.600 and he hated my guts

00:30:17.660 ever since.

00:30:19.220 I couldn't prove to him

00:30:20.360 I didn't know about it

00:30:21.400 I didn't know about it

00:30:22.640 I knew f*** all about it

00:30:24.300 but that's what happened

00:30:25.380 and when

00:30:26.200 all that come up

00:30:27.580 and the copper went

00:30:28.320 oh no I'm paying Dave

00:30:30.140 Frankie went

00:30:31.240 yeah I believe him

00:30:32.300 days of grass

00:30:32.880 sort of put an endorsement

00:30:34.240 on it

00:30:34.480 even though the rest

00:30:35.280 of the whole

00:30:35.800 of the underworld

00:30:36.740 like the

00:30:37.220 Ronnie and Reggie Cray

00:30:38.260 said I was alright

00:30:38.960 Ronnie Biggs

00:30:39.660 said I'm alright

00:30:40.180 Charlie Bronson

00:30:41.080 said I'm alright

00:30:41.680 the Richardson

00:30:42.160 Frankie Frazier

00:30:43.600 the only one that didn't say

00:30:44.840 I was alright

00:30:45.180 was him

00:30:45.640 because his wife

00:30:46.480 had run off of my

00:30:47.160 and I didn't like him

00:30:48.620 for that

00:30:48.980 I went round his house

00:30:50.180 and I went to go

00:30:51.040 and batter him

00:30:51.580 but when I went round

00:30:52.300 there he's 78

00:30:53.160 he's 7 stone

00:30:54.640 I couldn't even hit him

00:30:55.480 he'd break

00:30:56.100 and I was like f***

00:30:57.220 what was that conversation

00:30:59.260 like when you guys sat

00:31:00.380 there was no conversation

00:31:01.620 he shitted himself

00:31:02.280 he opened the door

00:31:02.760 he had no teeth

00:31:03.500 in a string vest

00:31:04.260 I went I can't even hit you

00:31:05.440 you'll break

00:31:06.320 you f***ing silly little man

00:31:07.900 look at you

00:31:09.000 you know what I mean

00:31:10.380 I didn't want someone

00:31:11.140 to go and shoot him

00:31:11.880 he was just going

00:31:12.420 yeah I believe the police

00:31:13.500 and then it went to court

00:31:14.760 I was found not guilty

00:31:16.440 said there shouldn't be

00:31:17.820 no room

00:31:18.300 I was found not guilty

00:31:19.120 the policeman went to prison

00:31:20.800 I had the tape on

00:31:22.280 and bugged the copper

00:31:23.360 what f***ing more proof

00:31:25.080 do you want

00:31:25.560 I would have caught dressed as a clown

00:31:27.400 and battered him

00:31:28.740 what do you want me to do

00:31:30.320 you understand what I mean

00:31:31.380 but he decided to go

00:31:32.760 no I still believe the copper

00:31:34.180 so it made a little ill feeling

00:31:36.040 but not ill feeling enough

00:31:38.060 for me to do anything

00:31:38.780 he's 80 years old

00:31:39.980 and had he actually

00:31:41.020 because he was a really big myth

00:31:43.220 he'd done 47 years in prison

00:31:45.540 not in one go

00:31:47.500 he got caught

00:31:48.540 every f***ing thing

00:31:49.560 he ever done

00:31:50.000 the silly bastard

00:31:50.680 everything he ever done

00:31:51.840 he got caught

00:31:52.660 and now he's done 47 years in prison

00:31:54.800 aren't supposed to look up to him

00:31:56.240 because he's done 47 years in prison

00:31:57.900 I think he's an arsehole

00:31:59.020 he's a complete knob

00:32:00.180 and that little myth about

00:32:01.920 you go to prison

00:32:03.000 and learn a lot of new crimes

00:32:04.360 that's not true

00:32:05.340 that's s***

00:32:06.580 you're only going to meet people

00:32:08.160 that got f***ing caught

00:32:09.320 all you're going to learn in there

00:32:10.940 is how not to do it

00:32:12.460 no one in there

00:32:13.580 is going to be no criminal genius

00:32:15.360 because they're all in f***ing prison

00:32:17.240 all you're going to learn

00:32:18.520 all day long

00:32:19.160 is they're going to tell you

00:32:19.940 this is how I got caught

00:32:21.040 that's how I got caught

00:32:22.080 anchor

00:32:23.060 gloves

00:32:23.720 fingerprint

00:32:24.240 GPS

00:32:25.880 they'll all tell you

00:32:26.900 how they got caught

00:32:27.760 so if you then come out of prison

00:32:29.460 and you want to carry on

00:32:30.380 being a criminal

00:32:30.960 if you can remember

00:32:32.320 all the ways that they told you

00:32:33.640 they get caught

00:32:34.300 then you're a better criminal

00:32:35.740 because you've remembered

00:32:37.320 all the ways they got caught

00:32:38.380 but no one in there

00:32:39.180 is going to teach you

00:32:39.940 how to do it properly

00:32:40.780 because they all got caught

00:32:43.080 does that not make sense?

00:32:44.520 I understand what you're saying

00:32:45.700 I mean I understand

00:32:46.940 the point you're making

00:32:47.840 and he said he had 40 hits

00:32:49.560 right in his career

00:32:50.340 he had some number like that

00:32:51.560 is what you read about

00:32:53.300 about him

00:32:54.300 it's not true

00:32:55.720 yeah I mean that's what

00:32:56.880 because I knew all of the people

00:32:58.400 that grew up in his era

00:32:59.500 yeah

00:32:59.800 the pulling the people's teeth

00:33:01.280 it's all a f***

00:33:02.120 it's all not real

00:33:02.880 it never ever happened

00:33:04.140 that's part of the myth?

00:33:05.060 it's all never happened

00:33:05.860 so let me ask you

00:33:06.460 he came during the era

00:33:07.480 of the Kray Twins

00:33:08.540 yeah

00:33:08.840 the Kray Twins

00:33:09.440 so who were the Kray Twins

00:33:12.500 in London?

00:33:13.320 how were they viewed?

00:33:14.100 they were on East London

00:33:15.840 okay

00:33:16.260 it was a lot easier

00:33:17.300 to be an hard nut then

00:33:18.500 because there weren't a lot of great men around

00:33:20.440 we'd just come out of a war

00:33:21.600 and all of our men had been killed

00:33:23.260 so there weren't a lot of men

00:33:24.460 men around

00:33:25.000 do you understand what I mean?

00:33:26.040 I understand what you're saying

00:33:26.880 it was very poor

00:33:27.820 these two little brothers

00:33:28.980 was in East London

00:33:31.160 it was quite easy to run Bethnal Green

00:33:32.960 in them days

00:33:34.400 because there was only 12,000 people

00:33:36.120 living in East London

00:33:37.120 now there is

00:33:38.340 750,000 people living in London

00:33:41.240 and none of them

00:33:42.900 half of them can't even say the name Kray Twins

00:33:45.100 yeah

00:33:45.640 in them days they all spoke and understood English

00:33:48.040 right?

00:33:48.540 when the Kray Twins were here

00:33:49.540 they spoke and understood England

00:33:51.680 English

00:33:52.380 everyone was skint

00:33:53.700 there was no muggings and burglaries

00:33:56.100 and you could leave your front door key on a piece of string

00:33:58.660 because who's going to break in your house?

00:34:00.940 what the f*** have you got in your house?

00:34:02.760 there was nothing in there to nick

00:34:04.320 right?

00:34:04.780 it was 1950

00:34:05.780 there's f*** no one had nothing

00:34:07.260 you'd break in someone's house

00:34:08.740 and leave them a fiver

00:34:10.080 there's f***ing

00:34:10.640 it'd feel terrible

00:34:11.500 no one had nothing

00:34:12.740 so they run East London

00:34:14.700 there was a little firm called

00:34:17.000 I can't remember

00:34:18.060 I'll tell you in a minute

00:34:18.700 run North London

00:34:19.840 and the Richardsons run South London

00:34:22.280 the Nashys run North London

00:34:24.220 yeah

00:34:24.500 the Richardsons were the cleverest by far

00:34:26.200 they invested in diamond mines

00:34:28.240 and all that

00:34:28.740 blah blah blah

00:34:29.220 so they were the entrepreneurs

00:34:30.040 they were the entrepreneurs

00:34:30.720 ok

00:34:30.940 but the Kray Twins went for the glamour

00:34:33.160 they went for the headlines

00:34:34.320 the newspaper things

00:34:36.600 they even borrowed other people's nightclubs

00:34:39.180 to pretend that they were home

00:34:41.000 when they died

00:34:42.080 their mums all still living in the same council

00:34:44.100 that they were born in

00:34:45.180 one was gay

00:34:46.860 and didn't mind

00:34:47.720 saying he was gay

00:34:49.120 and if anyone said he was gay

00:34:50.340 he would walk into a pub

00:34:51.240 in front of everyone

00:34:51.840 and shoot him for it

00:34:52.780 and the other one was gay

00:34:54.240 but didn't know how to tell everyone

00:34:56.120 so he got married

00:34:57.660 didn't sleep with his wife for a year

00:34:59.080 and she killed herself

00:34:59.960 that's the truth of it

00:35:01.240 if I told you anything that weren't right

00:35:04.020 I'd get shot

00:35:04.960 I'm not talking to you about football

00:35:06.340 or acting or singing

00:35:07.260 I'm talking to you about

00:35:08.080 a naughty boy's world

00:35:09.320 and if I'm wrong about anything

00:35:10.580 I can't tell you this

00:35:12.020 can I

00:35:12.440 I'd be too silly to actually

00:35:14.340 I'm telling you

00:35:15.020 what I'm telling you is fact

00:35:16.460 and Frankie Fraser was

00:35:18.480 a little bit of a dickhead

00:35:20.120 he lived in an old caravan

00:35:21.500 on the Richardson's

00:35:23.020 bloody

00:35:23.340 one of their breakers yards

00:35:24.600 and they came back

00:35:25.540 with someone one day

00:35:26.480 with a sack over him

00:35:27.520 that they'd give him a clump

00:35:28.860 tied him to a chair

00:35:30.700 got Frankie Fraser

00:35:31.900 when that beat was whacking him

00:35:33.740 he was talking

00:35:34.600 like that

00:35:35.560 so they got Frankie Fraser

00:35:36.760 to take the thing off

00:35:38.340 so the bloke saw Frankie

00:35:40.780 when they let him go

00:35:42.120 and he went to court

00:35:42.740 what he said was

00:35:43.760 I was getting beat up

00:35:45.300 inside the sack

00:35:46.220 the pain was that excruciating

00:35:48.060 that it felt like

00:35:49.800 Frankie Fraser was pulling my teeth out

00:35:51.740 with pliers

00:35:52.300 full stop

00:35:54.500 when they reported the story

00:35:56.060 in the morning

00:35:56.620 to the public

00:35:57.520 and the jury

00:35:58.100 before the case ended

00:35:59.200 you've got carte blanche

00:36:01.720 as a journalist

00:36:02.260 can't you

00:36:02.640 you can start that conversation

00:36:03.720 wherever you want

00:36:04.740 and as they went

00:36:06.300 he said

00:36:07.000 Frankie Fraser was pulling my teeth

00:36:09.080 out with pliers

00:36:09.700 stop

00:36:10.740 now it suited the Richardsons

00:36:12.700 to let the rest of the world

00:36:14.260 think that they had a torturer

00:36:15.600 and it suited Frankie Fraser

00:36:17.200 for the rest of the world

00:36:18.140 to think

00:36:18.580 he was connected

00:36:19.560 to the Richardsons

00:36:20.520 because he's only

00:36:21.320 he's a midget

00:36:22.100 little skinny

00:36:22.740 ten stone ring and wet

00:36:24.820 and it suited him

00:36:26.100 to let him think

00:36:27.060 he was criminally collected

00:36:28.500 and it suited them

00:36:29.800 to think

00:36:30.300 that they had a torturer

00:36:32.120 they didn't have to

00:36:32.960 actually hang around with him

00:36:33.960 because he was in prison

00:36:35.000 for 47 years

00:36:37.260 so it just suited everyone

00:36:39.340 and then when he left

00:36:40.620 he come out

00:36:41.600 and he's so deluded

00:36:42.560 that on the cover of his book

00:36:44.460 he's 78

00:36:45.240 instead of sitting there

00:36:46.400 with the globe in a library

00:36:47.520 and talking about crime like that

00:36:48.860 he actually went

00:36:49.700 thinking he was still a scary

00:36:52.540 force

00:36:53.620 you know like

00:36:54.280 complete and utter

00:36:55.800 f***ing knob

00:36:56.680 sorry you can see

00:36:58.080 I really don't like the guy

00:36:59.180 but I'm not saying anything

00:37:00.920 that he's a liar

00:37:01.880 and if

00:37:02.880 because I've been saying it

00:37:03.940 about him for 20 years

00:37:05.480 while he was alive

00:37:06.280 had anything

00:37:07.500 that anyone believed

00:37:08.600 about him

00:37:09.220 was true

00:37:10.120 I wouldn't be allowed

00:37:11.220 to say it

00:37:11.900 you know

00:37:12.200 something would have

00:37:13.080 happened to me

00:37:13.760 had it been true

00:37:15.440 what he was saying

00:37:16.880 about himself

00:37:17.380 what myth about the Craig Twins

00:37:19.000 was true

00:37:19.440 were they feared

00:37:20.240 were they

00:37:20.620 they were definitely feared

00:37:21.540 they were a naughty bit of work

00:37:23.220 but they wasn't as well organised

00:37:25.280 or as well feared

00:37:26.420 as was thought possible

00:37:28.100 they were in East London

00:37:29.580 a postcode

00:37:31.360 yeah

00:37:31.700 that postcode

00:37:33.380 you understand what I mean

00:37:34.300 we've got the same little postcode

00:37:35.840 was now

00:37:36.280 yeah but

00:37:36.540 yeah you're saying 700,000 now

00:37:38.260 back then it was 12,000

00:37:39.400 that's a big difference

00:37:40.320 yeah yeah

00:37:40.820 so and who else

00:37:42.320 were they

00:37:42.660 some of your heroes

00:37:43.440 would you

00:37:44.120 also look around

00:37:45.060 like a Gotti

00:37:45.840 or some of those things

00:37:46.580 yeah of course yeah

00:37:47.240 this is what happened

00:37:48.080 because you kind of have

00:37:48.840 a little bit of the

00:37:49.440 I'm going to tell you something

00:37:50.820 I'll tell you something that happened to me

00:37:51.260 right

00:37:51.400 I'll tell you how I grew

00:37:52.160 slipping back

00:37:53.380 we're going back now

00:37:54.260 where I started right

00:37:55.260 after I wrote the book

00:37:56.640 Stop the Road I Want to Get Off

00:37:57.700 and it all come out about me

00:37:58.900 wearing the

00:37:59.520 me wearing the f***ing

00:38:00.900 court jambes out

00:38:01.740 I then get

00:38:03.540 an invite to go to Sicily

00:38:05.800 to do a private audience with

00:38:08.280 for 25 businessmen

00:38:09.680 in their villa

00:38:10.360 with 5 interpreters

00:38:11.960 for 5 grand

00:38:12.960 so me and him go to Sicily

00:38:14.580 yeah

00:38:14.920 and we get there

00:38:16.360 and it's the f***ing

00:38:17.460 you know

00:38:17.680 we only see them on telly

00:38:18.860 yeah the Matthew

00:38:19.280 we come from f***ing Peckham mate

00:38:21.520 you know what I mean

00:38:22.040 yeah we think we're bad

00:38:22.900 we only see that on the telly

00:38:24.480 yeah

00:38:24.660 but these are

00:38:25.500 the bad ones

00:38:26.460 and it was Bonasconi

00:38:27.740 before he was

00:38:29.320 I mean

00:38:30.140 and all these other people

00:38:31.280 I didn't know who they were

00:38:32.980 it was just

00:38:33.560 it was f***ing mental for me

00:38:34.760 and he was talking in

00:38:36.160 broken English

00:38:38.340 which makes it all sound

00:38:39.460 gangstery to us

00:38:40.360 you understand what I mean

00:38:40.920 Davey

00:38:42.040 you don't talk to me

00:38:43.440 about gangster boy

00:38:44.500 I know 1 million

00:38:45.660 you see he's saying it like

00:38:46.920 I know 1 million bank robbers

00:38:48.260 I know 1 million murderers

00:38:50.380 I don't know any man

00:38:52.180 that's going to court

00:38:52.900 dressed like that

00:38:53.680 punch the copper in the face

00:38:55.820 before he was sentenced

00:38:57.380 I said f*** you

00:38:58.840 tell me about that day

00:38:59.780 he said

00:39:00.040 because there is an unwritten rule book

00:39:01.880 about going to court

00:39:03.360 and that goes around

00:39:04.480 in the whole world

00:39:05.520 apart from the Costa Nostra

00:39:07.100 and I'll tell you why

00:39:07.860 when it says

00:39:08.800 first rule

00:39:09.500 do not bring all your friends with you

00:39:11.480 it says

00:39:12.940 wear a nice suit

00:39:13.840 yes sir

00:39:15.080 no sir

00:39:15.520 please and thank you

00:39:16.440 and a letter from someone

00:39:17.640 that's known you 20 years

00:39:18.680 saying you're a nice guy

00:39:19.500 they're the f***ing rules

00:39:20.540 of going to court

00:39:21.380 in whatever country you go to

00:39:22.640 the only people

00:39:23.520 that don't have to abide by them

00:39:24.820 is us

00:39:25.820 because the judge knows

00:39:27.860 it's John Gotti

00:39:28.560 it's not worth him coming in

00:39:29.840 being all f***ing nice

00:39:31.140 like that

00:39:31.560 because he knows

00:39:33.500 exactly what he is

00:39:34.420 and who he is

00:39:35.060 out there

00:39:35.500 so they come into court

00:39:37.140 gangster

00:39:37.700 they come into court

00:39:39.120 like lumps in their pocket

00:39:40.620 and f***ing knows what else

00:39:41.560 and he went

00:39:42.200 the only person I've ever seen

00:39:43.320 do that

00:39:43.800 is you mate

00:39:45.060 he went

00:39:46.060 so you tell me

00:39:46.780 tell me what made you

00:39:48.120 go to court

00:39:49.360 like that

00:39:49.760 with all your friends

00:39:50.660 walking

00:39:51.240 bashed a copper

00:39:51.960 dressed as a clown

00:39:52.680 tell me that day

00:39:53.700 I'll give you your money

00:39:54.520 and f*** off

00:39:55.140 yeah

00:39:55.500 so I've told him that day

00:39:57.340 anyway

00:39:59.300 I must have done alright

00:40:00.580 because when I come home

00:40:01.600 he's now

00:40:02.280 ended up being

00:40:03.120 the prime minister

00:40:04.140 and the Italian bookshelf

00:40:06.600 for true crime

00:40:08.180 is the smallest bookshelf

00:40:10.180 in the world

00:40:10.940 in any other country

00:40:12.620 interesting

00:40:13.420 right

00:40:13.900 because they've got

00:40:14.760 the f***ing mafia

00:40:15.740 there

00:40:16.380 they're not interested

00:40:17.180 in Craig Twin

00:40:18.020 the great train rubber

00:40:19.400 the Yidi thing

00:40:20.240 yeah

00:40:20.480 they've got the mafia

00:40:21.420 in the corner of Rome

00:40:23.520 bookshop

00:40:24.480 so they haven't got

00:40:25.460 all the other different

00:40:26.260 nationality ones

00:40:27.940 like we have

00:40:28.620 well I ended up

00:40:29.400 getting my book in there

00:40:30.360 which I thought

00:40:30.820 was f***ing really great

00:40:31.760 only because

00:40:32.760 Moscone had then

00:40:33.940 gone on

00:40:34.260 he's got his publishers

00:40:35.480 your book made it there

00:40:36.860 yeah yeah

00:40:37.220 I've got it in Italian

00:40:38.220 I've got it in Italian

00:40:38.960 so

00:40:39.840 then

00:40:40.840 the Gambinos

00:40:42.160 what happened after that

00:40:43.520 they're all doing

00:40:44.080 their little bit of talking

00:40:44.800 then

00:40:45.240 Jay-Z put Mark Pitcher

00:40:46.800 on the cover of his album

00:40:47.760 on Blueprint

00:40:48.620 I spoke to the Oxford Union

00:40:50.100 and they wrote a book about it

00:40:51.740 and he thought

00:40:52.320 that was really f***ing funny

00:40:53.420 a convicted felon

00:40:54.440 teaching future parliament

00:40:56.000 how to behave

00:40:56.740 Dave Courtney's talking

00:40:58.200 to the Oxford Union

00:40:59.140 on how to f***ing behave

00:41:00.700 that is funny

00:41:01.520 educatedly funny

00:41:02.980 so he put

00:41:03.520 my photo of the Oxford Union

00:41:05.980 with his head on it

00:41:07.020 and called it Blueprint

00:41:08.260 so I'm sitting there

00:41:09.200 talking to the

00:41:09.840 future parliament

00:41:11.080 and he's put his head on it

00:41:12.120 so

00:41:13.000 that's happened

00:41:13.740 so all that's being talked about

00:41:15.180 there's a book out about it

00:41:16.340 and the Gambinos

00:41:17.200 their family

00:41:18.220 I don't know who they were

00:41:19.440 how high up they were

00:41:20.500 but when they come over here

00:41:22.280 they can have a six week vacation

00:41:23.680 they travel to Europe

00:41:24.460 didn't they

00:41:24.920 so they're all going around

00:41:26.200 Europe

00:41:26.620 and they've got in touch

00:41:28.200 with Freddie Foreman

00:41:28.960 who is a superior

00:41:30.480 in the crime world

00:41:32.260 to me

00:41:32.740 and said

00:41:33.720 we want to go to the

00:41:34.460 Ministry of Sound

00:41:35.120 well that was my doorman

00:41:36.300 so he goes

00:41:36.980 Dave

00:41:37.300 listen I've got some

00:41:38.080 young American kids

00:41:39.740 over here

00:41:40.120 they don't want to go

00:41:41.220 to the Ministry of Sound

00:41:41.940 he said

00:41:42.260 I'm too f***ing old

00:41:43.340 for all that bollocks

00:41:44.020 would you look after them

00:41:45.460 for me

00:41:45.920 of course they will

00:41:48.300 Fred

00:41:48.480 no problem

00:41:49.000 tell them to come

00:41:49.760 around my house

00:41:50.320 so these young f***ing kids

00:41:51.900 come around my house

00:41:52.720 they weren't lumps

00:41:55.560 but they weren't their dad

00:41:57.740 and they were too old

00:41:58.340 to be their friends

00:41:59.020 you know

00:41:59.580 they've had a wicked time

00:42:02.420 at my house

00:42:02.900 I'm having to laugh

00:42:03.720 and they're joking

00:42:04.340 they had a little bath

00:42:05.120 and they couldn't show him

00:42:06.120 oh well

00:42:06.980 they've gone to the Ministry of Sound

00:42:08.120 they've had a f***ing wicked night

00:42:09.440 didn't want to go back

00:42:10.400 to the hotel

00:42:10.880 stayed the night at my house

00:42:11.920 I've got a big old house

00:42:12.720 had a f***ing great time

00:42:14.040 by the time they go back

00:42:15.280 to whatever mum and dad

00:42:18.240 they got there

00:42:18.920 they're going

00:42:19.760 Dave Dave Dave Dave Dave Dave Dave

00:42:21.360 Dave Dave Dave's doing alright

00:42:23.220 out there in America

00:42:24.020 at the moment anyway

00:42:24.840 with all the other little things

00:42:25.940 the f***ing Jay-Z

00:42:27.460 and Rancid

00:42:28.300 I don't know if you've heard

00:42:28.920 of the band Rancid

00:42:29.900 one of their tracks

00:42:31.800 on their album

00:42:32.340 so I've got the

00:42:33.020 naughtiest white guys

00:42:34.900 singing about Dave Courtney

00:42:36.140 in America

00:42:36.620 I've got the naughtiest black guys

00:42:38.120 singing about Dave Courtney

00:42:38.920 in America

00:42:39.400 I've got the Gambino's kids

00:42:41.060 all going

00:42:41.460 he's f***ing lovely

00:42:42.260 I've got the f***ing

00:42:43.060 the mafia bloke

00:42:44.200 who ended up being

00:42:44.880 the Prime Minister of Italy

00:42:45.940 going

00:42:46.300 good book

00:42:47.060 good f***ing book

00:42:47.960 right

00:42:48.520 so now we're all

00:42:49.480 going over to America

00:42:50.440 right

00:42:51.100 now we're going over there

00:42:51.900 to do some

00:42:52.500 what was he going over there for

00:42:53.900 the Virgin

00:42:54.740 oh for the Virgin

00:42:55.800 for the book thing

00:42:56.580 and they ended up

00:42:57.860 not selling it in America

00:42:59.240 because I had a f***ing picture

00:43:00.620 of me smoking a cigar

00:43:01.460 on the cover

00:43:02.120 and because the cigar

00:43:03.820 was on the cover

00:43:04.620 and they were not

00:43:05.620 comfortable with that

00:43:06.260 yeah yeah

00:43:06.960 promoting smoking

00:43:07.980 I was like

00:43:08.440 f***ing hell man

00:43:09.980 anyway

00:43:10.480 by the time we get us

00:43:11.320 over there

00:43:11.760 the Gambino people

00:43:13.240 had heard I was coming

00:43:14.180 he's my pal

00:43:15.060 but he's a coward

00:43:15.640 he's brave in other things

00:43:17.600 but he's a coward

00:43:18.980 I live with him

00:43:21.020 he's beautiful

00:43:21.700 but the fighting thing

00:43:23.020 and the gangster thing

00:43:23.780 really aren't his

00:43:24.580 I'll tell you right

00:43:25.520 and so he gets to the f***ing airport

00:43:27.540 and these two blokes

00:43:29.600 come over to us

00:43:30.280 and I'm with a few of us

00:43:31.140 right now

00:43:31.560 and he goes

00:43:32.280 Mr. Courtney

00:43:32.940 I'm going to have to separate you

00:43:35.180 from your company

00:43:35.960 at the moment

00:43:36.540 but there's some very important people

00:43:38.300 that need to say hello to you

00:43:39.540 he won't take a long time

00:43:41.060 so I'm ready to start

00:43:43.040 screaming

00:43:44.020 so they couldn't take me away

00:43:46.000 help me

00:43:46.860 help me

00:43:47.820 so I couldn't get killed

00:43:49.400 you know what I mean

00:43:50.180 he's going

00:43:51.080 that's alright mate

00:43:51.820 yeah off you go

00:43:52.380 take him

00:43:52.820 sweet see you later Dave

00:43:55.040 you know

00:43:55.900 that's what he's doing to me

00:43:57.100 but it's this Gambino

00:43:59.280 and they're taking me around to me

00:44:00.700 all these people

00:44:01.320 I've never met before

00:44:02.320 old men

00:44:03.180 smelling a little bit

00:44:04.060 like tomatoes

00:44:04.700 all going

00:44:05.140 looking at old

00:44:05.880 black and white pictures

00:44:06.640 I didn't know anyone

00:44:07.920 but I looked after the kids

00:44:09.480 and blah blah blah

00:44:10.460 and all things like that

00:44:11.660 yeah the grandkids

00:44:12.540 and all that

00:44:13.060 drops him back to the hotel

00:44:14.120 they're all coming out of the hotel

00:44:15.140 they're going now to Jay-Z's club

00:44:16.940 so we're going to the Jay-Z's club

00:44:18.380 we don't know what it is

00:44:18.940 so the driver who's coming in the car goes

00:44:20.680 I'll take you there

00:44:21.760 he went

00:44:21.980 I don't know where it is

00:44:22.600 I'll take you

00:44:23.200 so he takes us now to Jay-Z's club

00:44:25.800 I'm going to him

00:44:27.240 I'm going to him

00:44:29.380 I'm being honest

00:44:30.420 I'm buzzing on it

00:44:31.900 right

00:44:32.120 I'm not saying

00:44:32.940 I'm not in

00:44:34.380 I'm not the best shot

00:44:35.340 I'm not the best one

00:44:35.900 I'm not

00:44:36.660 I'm not

00:44:36.920 scary phone book

00:44:38.280 that's my game

00:44:38.900 and I'll make you laugh

00:44:40.060 so he then goes

00:44:41.900 I'll take you

00:44:42.480 so he gets us to this

00:44:43.740 f***ing club

00:44:44.400 there's a big load of queue

00:44:45.740 going up this side

00:44:46.580 and a big queue

00:44:47.940 going up that side

00:44:48.700 and these doormen

00:44:49.940 English people

00:44:50.980 don't come that big

00:44:52.040 I don't know where

00:44:53.500 you Americans

00:44:54.560 get

00:44:55.420 black men

00:44:56.880 that big

00:44:57.980 I don't know how the f***

00:44:59.020 that happens

00:44:59.520 they must really hurt

00:45:00.780 their mum coming out

00:45:01.720 they must really hurt

00:45:02.560 their mum

00:45:02.920 because it's like

00:45:03.920 f*** me man

00:45:05.560 how the f***

00:45:06.380 is that

00:45:06.780 for real

00:45:07.680 you know

00:45:08.720 I can't imagine that

00:45:09.740 this is in New York

00:45:10.880 in New York

00:45:11.540 yeah yeah yeah

00:45:12.300 it's just f***ing crazy

00:45:13.580 anyway

00:45:14.460 so then

00:45:15.200 he pulls up

00:45:16.740 he goes

00:45:16.960 wait a minute

00:45:17.420 and he just runs up

00:45:18.600 the stairs

00:45:19.100 talks to the adornment

00:45:20.060 and they went

00:45:21.080 come up

00:45:21.800 so when we come up

00:45:22.700 they just let me

00:45:23.380 let me straight in

00:45:24.160 and I was going to go

00:45:24.760 and hang me coat up

00:45:25.520 so where can I put me coat up

00:45:26.960 he said I'll just give it

00:45:27.560 that man over there

00:45:28.120 and as I'm walking up

00:45:29.060 to him to give him

00:45:29.580 my coat

00:45:29.820 he's back turned

00:45:30.580 and he's talking

00:45:31.300 and he goes

00:45:31.780 I don't know who the f***

00:45:33.200 they are man

00:45:33.800 I don't know who the

00:45:34.600 he goes

00:45:35.060 but if he's got the campinos

00:45:36.220 dropping him off here

00:45:37.080 as a cab

00:45:37.540 I'm f***ing being nice

00:45:38.660 to the guy

00:45:39.140 and I'm like

00:45:40.980 oh wow

00:45:42.120 well

00:45:43.180 and it just sort of grew

00:45:44.740 from something

00:45:45.920 that was like a trick

00:45:46.800 not a trick

00:45:47.360 you know what I mean

00:45:47.860 like all of that happened

00:45:49.000 in a

00:45:49.440 I couldn't have planned it

00:45:50.780 I couldn't have planned

00:45:51.400 all of that

00:45:51.920 going to Sicily

00:45:53.520 doing the

00:45:54.240 get my book out

00:45:55.640 over there

00:45:56.340 Jay-Z put me on the cover

00:45:57.600 of his thing

00:45:58.240 Gambino's technique

00:45:59.720 I couldn't have planned

00:46:00.580 all that

00:46:00.960 you know what I mean

00:46:01.420 you couldn't

00:46:01.880 but it ended up like that

00:46:03.140 that's amazing

00:46:03.820 that's amazing

00:46:05.020 when you read about

00:46:06.220 the Kray Twins

00:46:06.860 it goes back to how

00:46:08.320 Sinatra used to come here

00:46:10.120 and he used to ask them

00:46:11.080 to hire their security

00:46:12.520 that's right

00:46:13.180 Judy Garland used to come

00:46:14.680 and do things with them

00:46:15.520 they were publicity

00:46:17.060 they were prostitutes

00:46:18.300 for publicity

00:46:18.920 oh they were prostitutes

00:46:21.400 for publicity

00:46:21.920 for publicity

00:46:22.500 both of them

00:46:23.540 yeah

00:46:24.100 they were prostitutes

00:46:25.100 for publicity

00:46:25.800 that's right

00:46:26.220 yeah they courted

00:46:28.040 the press

00:46:28.560 massively

00:46:29.380 you understand

00:46:29.960 what I mean

00:46:30.380 and that's what

00:46:32.200 actually eventually

00:46:32.940 got them caught

00:46:33.620 you understand

00:46:34.000 what I mean

00:46:34.300 they run away

00:46:36.320 and believed it all

00:46:37.160 they actually run away

00:46:37.880 and believed

00:46:38.500 their own hype

00:46:39.800 yeah

00:46:40.680 in reality

00:46:41.460 when they died

00:46:42.660 between them all

00:46:43.800 they never had

00:46:44.500 £50,000

00:46:45.260 it wasn't

00:46:46.700 yeah

00:46:46.900 they never had

00:46:47.460 £50,000

00:46:48.020 and

00:46:48.220 they didn't own a house

00:46:50.300 their mum lived

00:46:51.100 in the same way

00:46:51.640 how does that happen

00:46:52.860 though

00:46:53.060 I mean

00:46:53.320 well they just

00:46:54.020 didn't want money

00:46:54.880 they wanted fame

00:46:55.980 more than they did money

00:46:57.360 yeah yeah yeah

00:46:57.940 that's right

00:46:58.360 and the Richardsons

00:46:59.560 wanted the money

00:47:00.160 they had the money

00:47:00.760 and the power

00:47:01.440 that's right

00:47:01.900 yeah

00:47:02.160 and what the

00:47:03.860 police and the press

00:47:05.500 done

00:47:05.820 is

00:47:06.600 they made them

00:47:07.660 to fight each other

00:47:09.780 you know

00:47:10.040 they caused the conflict

00:47:12.000 so that once you two

00:47:13.740 are fighting

00:47:14.120 it's easier for the police

00:47:15.140 to come along afterwards

00:47:15.900 you know what I mean

00:47:16.580 west side

00:47:17.740 east side

00:47:18.100 they can cause

00:47:19.700 conflict

00:47:20.660 and that actually

00:47:21.400 gets them caught

00:47:22.720 you know

00:47:23.680 and Richardsons

00:47:24.540 didn't want the conflict

00:47:25.460 but they made all that happen

00:47:26.820 I actually instigated

00:47:28.420 the very first time

00:47:29.960 the Richardsons met Croes

00:47:31.800 after 30 years

00:47:32.860 I took Charlie Richardson

00:47:34.320 who got out of prison

00:47:35.360 to go and visit

00:47:36.380 Reggie Crowe

00:47:37.120 who was in prison

00:47:37.680 they'd both been inside

00:47:38.540 30 years

00:47:39.180 and Frankie Fraser

00:47:40.620 and Charlie Richardson

00:47:42.160 I set the whole thing up

00:47:43.120 yeah

00:47:43.360 how was that meeting?

00:47:44.880 yeah mad

00:47:45.460 yeah mad

00:47:45.940 it was like

00:47:46.360 well you can see

00:47:47.280 I like talking

00:47:48.140 but that was just

00:47:49.160 you down

00:47:49.920 it was like electric

00:47:50.920 and they just went

00:47:51.540 into this prison

00:47:52.200 and no one said

00:47:52.780 f*** all

00:47:53.460 they just pushed

00:47:54.340 the tables up together

00:47:55.860 no one said nothing

00:47:57.300 and they all sat around it

00:47:58.820 and they was holding

00:47:59.420 each other's hands

00:48:00.060 like wow

00:48:00.880 and this and I'm

00:48:01.380 wow funny

00:48:01.840 really?

00:48:03.500 yeah yeah

00:48:03.960 really?

00:48:04.360 beautiful

00:48:04.700 and then he

00:48:05.120 wow

00:48:06.140 like 11

00:48:07.100 you saw a certain

00:48:08.040 level of respect

00:48:09.040 and unity?

00:48:09.580 yeah yeah yeah

00:48:10.580 last time they saw

00:48:13.120 each other

00:48:13.460 they were

00:48:13.660 you know

00:48:14.880 yeah it's beautiful

00:48:16.460 beautiful

00:48:17.960 when did it kind of

00:48:19.760 not necessarily

00:48:20.580 disappear

00:48:21.040 when did it kind of

00:48:22.120 all settle down a bit

00:48:23.880 here?

00:48:24.480 it all settled down a bit

00:48:25.560 here

00:48:25.860 as soon as they all

00:48:27.060 went to prison

00:48:27.480 they all got 30 years

00:48:28.680 they all got 30 years

00:48:29.880 they got 30 years

00:48:30.500 and their whole firm

00:48:31.560 got 30

00:48:33.120 10, 20 and odd years

00:48:34.860 what is not

00:48:37.060 a good advert

00:48:37.840 for British crime

00:48:38.640 is on the day

00:48:39.720 they were sentenced

00:48:40.340 their solicitor

00:48:41.180 who was my solicitor

00:48:42.060 and my barrister

00:48:43.160 said to them

00:48:44.060 the evidence against you

00:48:45.380 is so strong

00:48:47.300 that it is impossible

00:48:48.840 to get not guilty

00:48:50.080 right?

00:48:51.840 so the deal

00:48:52.780 I've got for you

00:48:53.460 is

00:48:53.720 if you want to go guilty

00:48:55.120 I can let the rest

00:48:57.120 of your whole firm

00:48:57.980 out

00:48:59.060 if you go not guilty

00:49:00.220 you are all

00:49:01.400 going to get

00:49:02.020 20 years

00:49:02.820 and you two

00:49:03.340 are going to get

00:49:03.680 30 years

00:49:04.360 but if you want to

00:49:05.460 go guilty now

00:49:06.320 your whole firm

00:49:07.600 can walk

00:49:08.160 and you have to

00:49:09.300 get found guilty

00:49:10.240 there was too much

00:49:11.320 against you

00:49:11.720 you walked into the pub

00:49:12.760 and shot him

00:49:13.640 you ain't going to

00:49:14.400 get away with that

00:49:15.180 yeah everyone's saying

00:49:16.620 they said you know

00:49:17.280 and they went

00:49:17.960 no no

00:49:19.120 we want our firm

00:49:19.820 in with us

00:49:20.500 we want our firm

00:49:22.440 in prison with us

00:49:23.460 and chose to

00:49:25.380 bring them in prison

00:49:26.240 with them

00:49:26.600 when they could have

00:49:27.160 let them go

00:49:27.780 that makes me want to

00:49:29.080 vomit and be embarrassed

00:49:30.140 to be an English criminal

00:49:31.120 that is not leading

00:49:31.900 material is it

00:49:32.660 they could have said

00:49:34.160 guilty

00:49:34.540 and let their whole firm

00:49:35.960 go home

00:49:36.540 but they went

00:49:37.260 not guilty

00:49:37.760 and took their whole firm

00:49:38.680 to prison with them

00:49:39.540 why did they do that

00:49:40.860 to still have power in

00:49:42.300 well because they were

00:49:43.360 too frightened to go

00:49:44.160 to prison on their own

00:49:45.220 outside the prison

00:49:47.380 they had an army

00:49:48.320 around them

00:49:48.820 inside prison

00:49:49.520 they were going to be

00:49:50.100 segregated on their own

00:49:51.340 so they took their army

00:49:52.660 in with them

00:49:53.420 and then after being

00:49:54.740 in prison

00:49:55.300 for just 24

00:49:57.240 f***ing months

00:49:58.380 Reggie wrote a book

00:49:59.860 admitting it all anyway

00:50:01.140 Genesis when he became

00:50:02.260 no no no

00:50:02.460 he became Christian

00:50:03.860 that's all not real

00:50:05.420 but he

00:50:07.200 that was just

00:50:08.540 part of the course

00:50:09.440 there was nothing else

00:50:10.120 to do

00:50:10.520 he became openly gay

00:50:12.100 in prison

00:50:12.640 and all that

00:50:13.680 and the Christian bit

00:50:14.900 was to hopefully

00:50:16.040 give him a little bit

00:50:16.940 of leeway

00:50:17.340 that they might let him out

00:50:18.300 it's the only thing

00:50:18.880 he had left to do

00:50:19.620 to say I'm a nice bloke

00:50:20.800 now

00:50:21.080 you understand

00:50:21.500 what I mean

00:50:21.780 it was John Christian

00:50:22.520 but his whole firm

00:50:24.620 which I knew well

00:50:26.080 which were all good

00:50:27.100 friends of mine

00:50:27.800 were gobsmacked

00:50:29.080 they've just got 20 years

00:50:30.720 he's got 10 years

00:50:31.700 right

00:50:32.300 they know that he'd been

00:50:33.300 offered the deal

00:50:34.000 to go

00:50:34.600 go guilty

00:50:35.640 and we'll let your firm off

00:50:38.240 none of the firm

00:50:39.200 can really say to him

00:50:40.100 go guilty

00:50:40.840 go guilty

00:50:41.400 go guilty

00:50:41.920 because every man's

00:50:43.140 got the right to try

00:50:43.860 and win a court case

00:50:44.700 but they was thinking

00:50:45.960 f***ing hell

00:50:46.700 so they lived with it

00:50:48.280 even though he didn't

00:50:49.100 go guilty

00:50:49.400 they all went to prison

00:50:50.340 and then I think it was

00:50:52.220 24 or 36 months

00:50:54.420 after that

00:50:55.600 he wrote a book

00:50:56.620 admitting it anyway

00:50:57.560 so they all went

00:50:58.340 why the f***

00:50:59.300 didn't you

00:50:59.660 why didn't you admit it

00:51:02.640 did he drop everyone's names

00:51:03.860 in the book

00:51:04.260 yeah

00:51:04.440 yeah of course

00:51:05.300 got it

00:51:05.800 why didn't you admit it

00:51:07.040 yeah

00:51:07.340 that you did it

00:51:08.440 then

00:51:09.160 and then none of us

00:51:09.900 would have had to go to prison

00:51:11.040 did the people

00:51:12.180 turn against them

00:51:13.000 or no

00:51:13.440 no

00:51:14.080 because they're now

00:51:14.780 they're now

00:51:15.340 locked up

00:51:16.580 and they were turned

00:51:17.280 into mythical characters

00:51:18.720 all of a sudden

00:51:19.580 the west end

00:51:20.180 the east end

00:51:20.900 started getting filled up

00:51:21.940 with Indians

00:51:23.140 Pakistanis

00:51:24.300 Polish

00:51:24.900 Russians

00:51:25.560 Jamaicans

00:51:26.680 Irish

00:51:27.140 and they lost

00:51:28.140 their English culture

00:51:29.960 and they

00:51:30.380 got all wrapped up

00:51:31.620 in a ramet

00:51:32.240 so we think

00:51:32.700 it was all because

00:51:33.460 the Kray twins went away

00:51:34.660 let me ask you this

00:51:35.660 let me ask

00:51:36.040 you know how

00:51:36.540 military has a code

00:51:38.500 you know

00:51:38.880 the Italian mafia

00:51:39.620 has a code

00:51:40.140 the La Cosa Nostra

00:51:40.880 has a code

00:51:41.520 what was the code

00:51:43.860 that

00:51:44.860 was there a code

00:51:45.880 you guys lived by

00:51:46.860 yes

00:51:47.440 what was the code

00:51:48.200 I'm going to tell you

00:51:48.780 exactly what it is

00:51:49.320 I'll tell you why

00:51:51.200 it's not here at all

00:51:51.860 England had just

00:51:52.880 come out of a war

00:51:53.680 and a spy

00:51:54.600 or a grass

00:51:55.760 was the worst

00:51:56.980 thing in the world

00:51:58.020 one spy is more

00:51:58.980 dangerous

00:51:59.460 than a thousand men

00:52:00.760 walls have ears

00:52:02.120 and all of that

00:52:04.280 so if you was a policeman

00:52:05.340 at the time

00:52:05.800 and you caught a criminal

00:52:06.680 and you become a snitch

00:52:09.240 you would get

00:52:09.780 cut to f***ing ribbons

00:52:10.980 you'd get killed

00:52:11.520 for being a snitch

00:52:12.080 but if you was a policeman

00:52:13.360 at the time

00:52:13.800 your job was hard

00:52:15.060 because no one

00:52:15.780 grassed anybody up

00:52:16.800 England was known

00:52:17.860 as the bulldog nation

00:52:19.380 you could pull

00:52:20.760 our fingernails out

00:52:21.560 and we wouldn't

00:52:21.940 tell anyone

00:52:22.520 we wouldn't tell

00:52:23.960 the secrets

00:52:24.580 that was what

00:52:25.340 England was about

00:52:26.220 and then

00:52:27.740 they realised

00:52:28.620 that the war years

00:52:30.040 had made a nation

00:52:31.300 of non-informants

00:52:33.820 so they spent

00:52:34.740 the next 60

00:52:35.540 and 50 years

00:52:36.540 convincing you

00:52:38.160 that informing

00:52:39.140 was good

00:52:39.720 on every single

00:52:41.040 f***ing television

00:52:41.900 station

00:52:42.340 now on every single

00:52:43.380 channel

00:52:44.140 on prime time

00:52:45.140 television

00:52:45.560 if you would have

00:52:46.020 said this to me

00:52:46.700 25 years ago

00:52:47.780 I'd have called you

00:52:48.260 a liar

00:52:48.680 there was your

00:52:49.320 programme going

00:52:50.040 and if you see

00:52:50.800 this guy

00:52:51.260 just ring us up

00:52:52.300 and we'll give you

00:52:52.860 some money

00:52:53.300 and if there's

00:52:54.200 another two

00:52:54.660 oh we've got

00:52:55.300 one phone call

00:52:55.980 already

00:52:56.420 and if you see

00:52:57.380 this phone

00:52:57.900 if you see

00:52:58.380 these

00:52:58.820 yeah

00:52:59.300 and then there's

00:53:00.020 a thing in

00:53:00.420 every newspaper

00:53:01.000 if you know

00:53:01.580 someone that's

00:53:02.160 working while

00:53:02.780 claiming social

00:53:03.500 if you know

00:53:04.100 anyone sending

00:53:04.640 drugs

00:53:05.020 if you know

00:53:05.480 anyone sending

00:53:06.040 arms

00:53:06.420 if you know

00:53:07.040 anyone that's

00:53:07.540 drink driving

00:53:08.160 like they've made

00:53:09.080 grassing

00:53:09.800 acceptable and good

00:53:10.960 and now if you

00:53:11.680 get caught for

00:53:12.260 being an informant

00:53:13.360 you don't get

00:53:14.220 beat up in prison

00:53:14.900 you go in the

00:53:15.440 informant's wing

00:53:16.120 where the other

00:53:16.600 20,000 of you are

00:53:18.080 so it ain't such

00:53:19.320 a bad thing no more

00:53:20.260 so they have now

00:53:20.860 drummed it home to

00:53:21.880 England

00:53:22.540 that informing

00:53:23.620 is good

00:53:24.360 and then some

00:53:25.140 bright spark

00:53:25.840 has now gone

00:53:26.640 if your mum and dad

00:53:28.360 smack your bottom

00:53:29.200 they ban the cane

00:53:30.360 they ban the cane

00:53:31.680 which meant

00:53:32.260 if you're a boy

00:53:33.120 getting six wax

00:53:34.720 across the arse

00:53:35.320 with a bit of wood

00:53:35.860 at the end of the day

00:53:36.520 stops you being naughty

00:53:37.640 yeah

00:53:38.480 getting a detention

00:53:39.260 or told off

00:53:39.940 or something

00:53:40.320 getting someone

00:53:41.700 to smack you

00:53:42.260 across the bum

00:53:42.760 with a bit of wood

00:53:43.320 at the end of the day

00:53:44.240 put manners on you

00:53:45.220 yeah

00:53:45.460 right

00:53:46.220 they ban that

00:53:47.080 and now someone's

00:53:48.300 just banned it

00:53:49.000 that you cannot

00:53:49.640 smack your own kids

00:53:50.960 if you smack your mum

00:53:52.620 if your mum smacks you

00:53:53.940 you can tell us

00:53:55.600 and we will put her

00:53:56.240 in prison

00:53:56.580 they teach the children

00:53:57.780 559-33214

00:54:00.160 they teach them

00:54:01.000 the telephone number

00:54:01.920 to ring

00:54:02.660 if your own mum

00:54:03.660 and dad

00:54:04.140 discipline you

00:54:05.360 now that is the

00:54:06.160 Hitler youth

00:54:07.280 cross your mum

00:54:08.160 and dad up

00:54:08.820 if they smack you

00:54:09.860 so you've got

00:54:10.280 no discipline

00:54:11.180 at school

00:54:11.740 and you've now

00:54:12.740 got no discipline

00:54:13.620 at home

00:54:13.960 your own mum

00:54:14.500 can't give you

00:54:14.920 a smack on the bum

00:54:15.600 alright

00:54:16.280 so what chance

00:54:17.360 has the kid got

00:54:18.000 when he gets to

00:54:18.580 16, 17

00:54:19.300 and leaves home

00:54:20.560 to go out in the

00:54:21.040 big wild world

00:54:21.540 he don't know

00:54:22.240 discipline

00:54:22.880 and they say

00:54:23.600 what are we going to

00:54:24.100 do about the youth

00:54:24.720 for today

00:54:25.160 you've lost that war

00:54:26.560 it's gone

00:54:27.140 because of that

00:54:28.400 and they now teach

00:54:29.480 children to go and

00:54:30.740 grass on your mum

00:54:31.580 and dad if you get

00:54:32.180 a smack bump

00:54:32.800 well somewhere along

00:54:34.000 the line

00:54:34.380 that has got to come

00:54:35.140 back and bite you

00:54:36.100 teaching your country

00:54:37.280 to be informants

00:54:38.240 and putting it on

00:54:39.100 telly

00:54:39.560 and having all of that

00:54:40.580 and teaching your kids

00:54:41.380 to grass on your mum

00:54:42.160 and dad

00:54:42.420 somewhere down the line

00:54:43.800 that has got to come

00:54:44.660 back and bite you

00:54:45.440 because that don't make

00:54:46.140 a proper f***ing man

00:54:47.280 yeah

00:54:47.640 we've done well today

00:54:48.540 haven't we

00:54:48.920 code

00:54:49.720 what's the code

00:54:50.660 the code is

00:54:51.740 all the army things

00:54:53.040 right

00:54:53.760 the whole country

00:54:54.840 was army orientated

00:54:56.380 don't tell tells

00:54:58.160 nice short haircuts

00:54:59.740 love your mum

00:55:00.900 shiny shoes

00:55:02.140 nice

00:55:02.480 it was army

00:55:03.560 the whole country

00:55:04.640 was army fired

00:55:05.800 the whole youth

00:55:07.080 of the whole

00:55:07.680 when they left the army

00:55:08.800 was the gangster's code

00:55:11.200 yeah exactly the same

00:55:12.720 you look after your mum

00:55:14.320 you nice and tidy

00:55:15.340 nice and smart

00:55:16.120 you do not tell tells

00:55:17.820 you never leave

00:55:18.860 one man behind you

00:55:20.060 all the army things

00:55:21.360 come straight out

00:55:22.120 onto road

00:55:22.840 that's the code

00:55:24.340 right

00:55:25.200 and what they have done

00:55:25.960 now in today's world

00:55:27.160 is they broke all that up

00:55:28.500 and made that not right

00:55:29.760 when it is right

00:55:30.720 they still teach you

00:55:32.000 that in the army

00:55:32.540 but when everyone

00:55:33.720 the war finished

00:55:34.640 we're talking about

00:55:35.280 the 50s

00:55:36.600 that discipline

00:55:37.340 was still on road

00:55:39.640 everyone left the army

00:55:40.800 and was still doing

00:55:41.600 bank robberies

00:55:42.240 with like 10 or 15 people

00:55:44.140 in it

00:55:44.400 they were like army manoeuvres

00:55:45.760 now you only rob a bank

00:55:47.060 with one or two

00:55:47.780 but they were

00:55:48.700 you know it was all army

00:55:50.400 fired

00:55:50.740 and the code was

00:55:51.880 you do not tell tells

00:55:53.500 like the army

00:55:54.220 yeah

00:55:55.060 you do not run away

00:55:56.220 and leave a man down

00:55:57.180 right

00:55:57.960 nice shiny shoes

00:55:59.240 short haircuts

00:56:00.240 and love your mum

00:56:01.140 and that was the code

00:56:04.060 and that was the code

00:56:04.080 on the road

00:56:04.660 and that went away

00:56:05.360 and they've now

00:56:06.160 broke that down

00:56:07.240 so that ain't there

00:56:08.460 and I don't

00:56:10.040 if I introduce you to

00:56:11.460 20 different criminals

00:56:13.160 25 years ago

00:56:14.520 you'd see an armed robber

00:56:15.860 a cat burglar

00:56:16.660 a kidnapper

00:56:18.780 a f***ing

00:56:19.740 a murderer

00:56:21.120 now you're just

00:56:21.940 doing narcotics

00:56:23.000 and with the vast amount

00:56:24.400 of money

00:56:24.960 involved in narcotics

00:56:26.460 everything

00:56:27.360 and everyone

00:56:28.000 is bribeable

00:56:28.760 law

00:56:29.260 policemen

00:56:30.760 gangsters

00:56:31.880 yeah you know what I mean

00:56:33.080 to go and get someone killed

00:56:34.240 once was 20 grand

00:56:36.200 it was a lot of f***ing money

00:56:37.240 now you can go and get it done

00:56:38.140 for f***ing all

00:56:39.040 f***ing all

00:56:40.520 don't have to have enemies

00:56:42.440 you don't get caught for it

00:56:43.680 just ask some

00:56:44.340 little Russian bloke

00:56:45.580 who lives in Norwich

00:56:46.680 to come down and do it

00:56:47.660 done

00:56:48.480 he goes back up there

00:56:49.440 I'm afraid the only way

00:56:50.520 to be a successful drug dealer

00:56:51.900 now is

00:56:52.480 to be on that side

00:56:54.080 I'll get

00:56:55.980 chastised for saying that

00:56:57.460 but

00:56:58.280 the

00:56:59.140 the informant network

00:57:00.500 they have

00:57:00.940 is so good

00:57:01.640 no one can be a drug dealer

00:57:03.100 and the police not know

00:57:04.100 don't f***ing be

00:57:05.380 stupid enough

00:57:06.720 to think that you are a drug dealer

00:57:08.360 and have been a drug dealer

00:57:09.580 what's the pro and the con of that

00:57:10.880 the pro and the con of it is

00:57:12.080 you can sell more

00:57:13.180 if more people know you're doing it

00:57:14.580 but the police will know

00:57:15.820 so the police will just find a way

00:57:17.360 to actually get you working for them

00:57:19.180 no one's ever going to go

00:57:20.020 I'm an informant

00:57:21.080 if I actually catch you

00:57:22.540 and go right

00:57:22.940 I've had your phone bugged

00:57:23.780 your house bugged

00:57:24.680 and all these photographs

00:57:25.740 I've now got

00:57:26.460 20 years for you

00:57:27.500 20 years for your son

00:57:28.500 20 years for your daughter

00:57:29.640 and 20 years for your wife

00:57:30.540 or do you want to

00:57:31.140 do you want to work for me

00:57:32.020 because you're getting that

00:57:32.760 what do you want to do

00:57:33.320 quick

00:57:33.660 is that literally it right now

00:57:35.140 that's how it works

00:57:35.780 how long has it been like this

00:57:37.520 a long time

00:57:38.460 and that's how it works

00:57:39.320 and anyone there doing it

00:57:40.780 is one

00:57:41.820 so let me

00:57:42.480 let me ask you this

00:57:43.220 final thoughts here

00:57:44.220 okay

00:57:44.600 you've seen a lot

00:57:45.880 you've done a lot

00:57:46.460 I mean obviously

00:57:46.900 we didn't get into a lot of the

00:57:48.040 things you've done yourself

00:57:49.860 because you have a

00:57:51.040 rap sheet yourself

00:57:52.620 on the things you've done

00:57:53.400 you're at a different phase

00:57:55.240 of your life right now

00:57:56.140 right

00:57:56.560 you've seen a lot

00:57:57.920 I mean

00:57:58.240 you know

00:57:58.940 when someone comes in

00:58:00.020 you're extremely ambitious

00:58:00.960 I'm going to make my point

00:58:01.880 I'm a leader

00:58:02.320 I'm a delegator

00:58:02.920 I'm going to be able to

00:58:03.420 figure out exactly what I do

00:58:04.480 and then boom

00:58:04.880 a little bit more

00:58:05.920 I got to make money

00:58:06.660 I realize how important

00:58:07.480 the money part is

00:58:08.180 oh shit

00:58:08.640 the famous year

00:58:09.400 kind of got me

00:58:10.460 away from being able

00:58:11.820 to make the money

00:58:12.360 I used to make before

00:58:13.260 all this other stuff

00:58:14.120 and now

00:58:14.680 this is a different phase

00:58:15.840 right

00:58:16.020 life is about a lot

00:58:16.600 of different phases

00:58:17.220 what are you looking back now

00:58:19.360 saying

00:58:20.140 you know Dave

00:58:21.040 like you said

00:58:21.720 you bit your tongue

00:58:22.440 you shouldn't have told the cop

00:58:23.400 that we also have guns

00:58:24.940 except you have a certificate

00:58:25.860 we don't

00:58:26.660 do you have any other thing

00:58:28.240 where somebody

00:58:28.800 a young

00:58:29.300 a man is watching

00:58:31.420 somebody is watching

00:58:32.200 and saying

00:58:32.540 what can I take away from you

00:58:34.680 I feel really sorry for them

00:58:35.700 because

00:58:36.340 and it happens to everyone

00:58:38.240 when they get older

00:58:39.020 and whatever field you're in

00:58:40.180 crime as well

00:58:40.940 you long to do that

00:58:43.120 put your head on someone

00:58:45.700 and teach them

00:58:46.520 and let you know

00:58:47.760 what I know

00:58:48.460 without having to go

00:58:49.700 through all the hardships

00:58:50.480 but

00:58:51.360 in the crime world now

00:58:52.920 what I know

00:58:53.880 and what I'm used to

00:58:54.740 is no good to you anymore

00:58:56.040 trusting someone

00:58:57.320 being good character

00:58:58.480 shaking your hand

00:58:59.680 and all that

00:59:00.020 means nothing

00:59:00.560 now

00:59:00.980 the more nasty

00:59:02.140 and gung-ho

00:59:02.820 and spiteful

00:59:03.560 and murderous you are

00:59:04.620 the more respect you get

00:59:06.020 the more

00:59:06.700 murdering

00:59:08.680 deceitful

00:59:10.280 you are

00:59:11.680 they're the ones

00:59:12.760 that's making it

00:59:13.480 so what I've got to offer

00:59:14.640 in that crime world

00:59:15.460 is very old fashioned

00:59:17.060 and I would come

00:59:17.680 very second

00:59:18.420 very quick

00:59:19.460 I've got nothing

00:59:20.240 to offer them

00:59:21.260 I just feel

00:59:22.080 look at them

00:59:22.400 I want to cry

00:59:23.060 and that's God's honest truth

00:59:24.500 and there's nothing more

00:59:26.480 rewarding

00:59:27.440 than being able to go

00:59:28.620 look let me help you

00:59:30.100 meaning get out

00:59:31.300 or

00:59:31.660 that's my saying

00:59:33.100 get out

00:59:34.180 get out

00:59:35.720 stop looking at Scarface

00:59:37.020 on the f***ing video

00:59:37.920 get out

00:59:38.720 there is no more

00:59:40.220 there is no more of them

00:59:41.440 there is no more of them

00:59:43.420 and the only ones

00:59:44.780 that they're letting be

00:59:45.640 them gangsters now

00:59:46.800 that are sending the drugs

00:59:47.600 are working for the police

00:59:48.860 because the police

00:59:50.060 know they're a drug dealer

00:59:50.900 they don't think

00:59:51.340 there's any drug dealer

00:59:52.120 that the police

00:59:53.160 don't know you're a drug dealer

00:59:54.140 so the reason

00:59:54.680 they're letting you be one

00:59:55.660 is because you're working for them

00:59:56.980 if they wanted to stop you

00:59:58.520 they would stop you

00:59:59.300 so listen

00:59:59.820 I mean we can sit here

01:00:00.560 and you can go with stories

01:00:01.640 it's endless stories

01:00:02.600 I mean it's like

01:00:03.180 non-stop with you and stories

01:00:04.700 but you know

01:00:06.800 I appreciate you coming out

01:00:07.820 and being willing to share

01:00:08.880 and more than anything else

01:00:09.820 sometimes it's great

01:00:11.640 to hear somebody

01:00:12.640 who's gone through the life

01:00:13.980 you've seen it

01:00:15.380 you've hung out

01:00:16.100 with all the people

01:00:16.700 that people read about

01:00:17.620 and you're coming back

01:00:18.800 and saying

01:00:19.260 you know

01:00:20.000 I don't know if I recommend

01:00:20.860 this lifestyle

01:00:21.420 I don't know if I recommend

01:00:22.280 you wanting to go this route

01:00:23.860 maybe take a different route

01:00:24.680 for your life

01:00:25.140 to the young people

01:00:25.780 that I will see

01:00:26.280 I'm not saying maybe

01:00:26.880 I'm saying definitely

01:00:27.580 take another one

01:00:28.300 maybe if you'd have asked me

01:00:29.360 that 30 years ago

01:00:30.380 I might have said it's alright

01:00:31.520 but right now

01:00:32.800 is the wrong time

01:00:33.640 to be a criminal man

01:00:34.500 it's the wrong time

01:00:35.360 to be a criminal

01:00:35.860 wrong time

01:00:36.480 powerful to know

01:00:38.200 that this is the wrong time

01:00:39.140 to be a criminal

01:00:39.660 because it just means

01:00:40.380 it's safe for four

01:00:41.140 oh that is so touche

01:00:44.600 you've got to leave that in

01:00:48.140 you've got to leave that in

01:00:50.540 that was on cue

01:00:52.100 that was on cue

01:00:53.740 oh my

01:00:56.160 Dave Courtney

01:00:57.720 is in the building

01:00:59.020 leave

01:00:59.420 that sounds like my taxi

01:01:01.300 I think that was a good one

01:01:06.740 wasn't it

01:01:07.320 yeah that was a good

01:01:08.140 so having said that

01:01:08.920 we're going to end on this

01:01:09.780 again thanks for coming out

01:01:11.080 to Valuetainment

01:01:11.500 appreciate your time

01:01:12.240 thank you

01:01:12.900 thanks everybody for listening

01:01:14.240 and by the way

01:01:14.760 if you haven't already

01:01:15.400 subscribed to Valuetainment

01:01:16.620 on iTunes

01:01:17.360 please do so

01:01:18.700 give us a five star

01:01:20.040 write a review

01:01:20.920 if you haven't already

01:01:21.720 and if you have any questions

01:01:22.840 for me that you may have

01:01:23.860 you can always find me

01:01:24.960 on Snapchat

01:01:25.480 Instagram

01:01:26.360 Facebook

01:01:27.080 or YouTube

01:01:27.740 just search my name

01:01:28.720 Patrick MidDavid

01:01:29.620 and I actually do respond back

01:01:31.780 when you snap me

01:01:32.620 or send me a message

01:01:33.760 on Instagram

01:01:34.620 with that being said

01:01:35.440 have a great day today

01:01:36.440 take care everybody

01:01:37.120 bye bye

Valuetainment - April 16, 2019

Episode 283： London Gangster Reveals The Mob Life in Britain (David Courtney)

Episode Stats

Length

Words per Minute

Word Count

Sentence Count

Misogynist Sentences

Hate Speech Sentences

Summary

Transcript