Valuetainment - Episode 285 - UFC vs Boxing - Hall of Fame Referee Gives Insight

00:00:00.000 30 seconds, one time for the underdog, ignition sequence start, let me see you put em up, reach

00:00:09.240 the sky, touch the stars, up above, cause it's one time for the underdog, one time for

00:00:16.060 the underdog.

00:00:17.300 I'm Patrick Medevi, host of Valuetainment, today I sit down with Joe Cortez, Joe Cortez

00:00:21.500 is a hall of fame referee in the world of boxing, he's referee Tyson fights, Holyfield

00:00:26.580 fights, De La Hoya fights, a bunch of different fights, and I asked him a question, I said

00:00:31.380 is this boxing stuff real, are we getting too shady, cause I don't trust some of these decisions

00:00:35.560 that they're making, whether it was Triple G fight versus De La Hoya, or some of the other

00:00:39.220 things, you're gonna be surprised by some of the comments he made about that, as well

00:00:42.820 as UFC versus boxing, Joe.

00:00:44.680 Thank you, thank you, it's a pleasure.

00:00:45.560 Thank you for making the time to come down to Dallas here with us.

00:00:48.100 It was a pleasure.

00:00:49.060 Yes, it's good to have you, so I got a lot of things I want to talk to you about, the

00:00:51.580 future of boxing, I'm kinda seeing right now, Oscar De La Hoya is almost becoming the voice

00:00:55.900 of boxing, he's almost becoming a Dana White of boxing, cause there's no Don King today,

00:01:00.180 Don King on the boxing side is De La Hoya, so I'm curious to know what you think about

00:01:04.200 the future of boxing versus MMA, and then some of the other stuff, I'm just curious, I

00:01:07.740 had my guy who cuts my hair, Michael Rapatoni, he's from Philadelphia, he was a boxer before.

00:01:12.240 He's the guy that cuts my hair.

00:01:13.320 He cuts your hair too?

00:01:14.320 Yes, same guy, huh?

00:01:15.320 So he cuts my hair, I said Michael, I'm sitting with Joey Cortez, what questions would

00:01:19.160 you want to ask?

00:01:19.900 He said, Pat, the first question, who's the dirtiest fighter he ever saw fight?

00:01:23.940 So I'm gonna open it up with that, who was the dirtiest fighter you ever saw fight?

00:01:27.140 Well, I ran for a fight with John Ruiz against Kirk Johnson, and Kirk Johnson kept hitting

00:01:31.520 low blows, I kept telling him one of him several times, I had to start taking action, I started

00:01:35.560 taking points, I took a point early part of the fight, I took another point in the second

00:01:40.040 part of the fight, and he kept hitting low, and I kept going into the corner, I said, listen,

00:01:43.720 one more low blow, you're gonna be disqualified. 0.91

00:01:45.620 It was a nasty fight, and I ended up disqualifying Kirk Johnson for the heavyweight championship of the

00:01:50.340 world, which is something you don't want to see in boxing, because people pay money to

00:01:53.740 see a good match, and we have to disqualify a fighter, that's really bad, not only for

00:01:58.620 the fighters, but for the fans, at least a bad taste.

00:02:01.920 But was he a dirty fighter, or was it just that day when he was fighting?

00:02:04.280 Well, I would say it was probably that day, because I think he was getting beat up, and

00:02:08.560 he was looking for a way out, he figured, I'm gonna let the referee get me out of here

00:02:12.660 and disqualify me.

00:02:13.900 Your story is a great story, because you started off as a boxer yourself, Golden Gloves, I think,

00:02:18.140 60 in 1962, and then you turned pro at 1863, you were 10-1 in your career, with a lot of

00:02:24.240 fights that you had, and then one day you decided to be a referee, how did that happen?

00:02:28.060 How did you one day say, I just want to go out there and be a referee?

00:02:30.020 After I had gotten married, I went to Puerto Rico four years after I got married, and started

00:02:34.700 working at El Conquisto Hotel, and I was working at the hotel, I worked my way up the ranks, and

00:02:39.520 eventually I became assistant manager at the hotel.

00:02:41.580 There's a gentleman by the name of Pat Mascher, who was a policeman in New York, who was also

00:02:45.740 a referee in the amateurs, who happened to referee my fights when I won the Golden Glove

00:02:49.660 Championships, along with my brother Mike, in Madison Square Garden, he was a guest at

00:02:53.800 the hotel, he ran into me, and he's one that planted the seed when I moved back to New York

00:02:58.600 in 76, the end of 76, I gave him a call, he said, Pat, I'm here in New York, maybe go out

00:03:03.520 for lunch, he said, I want to talk to you, he said, I want you to become a referee in the

00:03:06.440 amateurs, so he planted the seed, and that's the way it all started.

00:03:09.220 I refereed the amateurs, the Police Athletic League, they had the Golden Gloves.

00:03:13.380 Six months later, I get called from the New York State Athletic Commission, a gentleman

00:03:17.540 by the name of Frank Morris, Deputy Commissioner, and he said, Joe, I want you to turn pro.

00:03:21.720 I've already been doing this for six months.

00:03:24.460 He says, I know, but we want to work with you and get you rolling.

00:03:27.660 Normally, you have to referee three to five years in the amateurs before you even consider

00:03:31.900 going pro, so I had some talent, and they worked with me, and five years later, I'm

00:03:36.940 doing my first world championship fight, Ivan Pryor against Miguel Montilla.

00:03:40.920 Unbelievable, that quickly?

00:03:42.320 Yeah, yeah, so I was on my way to becoming a household name, and very honored that I got

00:03:47.720 to make it to do the major fights.

00:03:49.620 So let me ask you, when you refereed Mike Tyson, was that before?

00:03:53.840 No, that was after, right?

00:03:54.820 You were already a pro referee when you refereed, because Mike was, was he 15, the fight that

00:03:58.640 you refereed?

00:03:59.220 The Olympic fight?

00:04:00.220 No, no, I never refereed Tyson until...

00:04:02.480 You were the third referee on that match.

00:04:03.720 No, well, until he, when he turned pro, that's when I started refereeing Mike Tyson.

00:04:07.620 So you have been in the ring with Mike?

00:04:09.380 As a referee, nine times.

00:04:10.840 Nine times?

00:04:11.600 Yes.

00:04:11.960 How was that, watching him?

00:04:13.260 Well, you know, he's an animal in there.

00:04:16.100 He's a devastating puncher.

00:04:17.420 We either had, he had the speed for heavyweight, he had unbelievable speed and tremendous power

00:04:23.040 with his punches, and every time he hit these guys with a punch, you know, they were very,

00:04:27.000 very hard blows, and I always knew, I said to myself, these guys get caught with one of

00:04:31.560 these punches, they're going to go.

00:04:32.640 And most of them did go down, with the exception of James Quictillis, was the first fighter

00:04:37.640 after 15 straight knockouts that Mike Tyson had.

00:04:40.660 I refereed a 15th fight.

00:04:42.140 He won a decision, but he had some difficulties, and I said to myself then, that Mike Tyson,

00:04:47.020 they're going to have some problems with tall, skillful boxers from the outside, and that's

00:04:52.340 what happened when he fought Buster Douglas.

00:04:54.020 Wow.

00:04:54.560 He had difficulties with him.

00:04:55.680 And you saw that coming?

00:04:56.720 I see, I saw it coming from when he was starting out.

00:04:58.840 Who you saw witness yourself, because who have you seen fight?

00:05:01.680 I mean, you've seen a lot of people.

00:05:03.060 Heavyweights, you've seen Foreman, you've seen everybody.

00:05:05.280 I've refereed Foreman four times.

00:05:06.960 Okay.

00:05:07.320 Lennox Lewis about three times.

00:05:09.020 Riddick Bowe.

00:05:09.600 Riddick Bowe, Holyfield.

00:05:11.180 Yep.

00:05:11.320 I mean, I've refereed most of the heavyweights in the last, you know, 30 years.

00:05:14.540 And you also saw Canelo with Chavez, Julio Cesar Chavez.

00:05:17.480 Julio Cesar Chavez with Oscar De La Hoya.

00:05:19.320 That was a big one back in 95.

00:05:21.660 Who did you see that you said hands down, hardest puncher?

00:05:24.680 Was it Tyson that you would say?

00:05:25.980 He's one of them, yes.

00:05:27.240 Is there one that you would say hardest ever that you saw personally yourself?

00:05:30.760 Yeah.

00:05:30.920 Because you're right there.

00:05:31.800 Yeah.

00:05:32.020 Would you put him at the top?

00:05:32.880 He was on the top, but then as a lighter fighter, I go down to Julian Jackson, who was a middleweight.

00:05:38.660 Wow.

00:05:38.920 He knocked out 48 of 56 of his opponents.

00:05:42.340 So he was a good heavy puncher as a middleweight.

00:05:44.320 How do you, are you entertained by the fight yourself?

00:05:46.940 Like, are you entertained by boxing yourself or no?

00:05:48.880 No, no.

00:05:49.460 When you're working, you're working.

00:05:50.700 It's a job.

00:05:51.380 So you don't get to really enjoy it.

00:05:52.900 You know, you have to, yes, do your job.

00:05:54.740 First and foremost is the safety of the fighters.

00:05:57.140 And the second of all is enforcing the rules.

00:05:59.100 So in the first 10 years of my career as a referee, I was a scoring official.

00:06:03.320 They had two judges, and the referee was the third judge as well.

00:06:06.240 So I had, you know, I had to judge a referee to fight, watch out for the safety of the fighters.

00:06:12.180 So it was, you know, multitask, but some referees cannot do all correctly, 100%.

00:06:17.140 Sure.

00:06:17.720 So there were some fighters that were getting hurt, like when Boom Boom Mancini killed Duke

00:06:21.440 Ho Kim. 0.80

00:06:22.140 Then they changed from 15 rounds to 12 rounds.

00:06:24.480 Then they took the scoring away from the referee, so the referee could focus more on the safety

00:06:28.580 of the fighters.

00:06:28.840 Do you think that's a good decision they made?

00:06:30.080 I think it was a good decision because it was to help the fighters make sure that they

00:06:33.700 didn't receive unnecessary punishment.

00:06:35.280 So how do you mentally get yourself in a state to not be in the fight where you want, like

00:06:39.140 it's just purely rules.

00:06:40.140 How do you do that?

00:06:41.000 Well, you have to think like an official.

00:06:42.400 You can't think like a fan.

00:06:43.740 It's a big difference.

00:06:44.700 It's like a doctor.

00:06:45.480 Doctors, you know, they go into surgery.

00:06:47.660 They got to be focusing only on one patient and only on what they're doing.

00:06:51.580 Yeah, but you got to have somebody you like more than the other guy.

00:06:53.340 Like, is it, you know, like your favorite fighters of all time, could you say your favorite fighters

00:06:57.540 of all time?

00:06:58.020 No, and now when you're an active referee, I try to stay away from that because you have

00:07:02.300 to, it's like a fine line.

00:07:03.420 Like you have to be cold almost to do that.

00:07:05.240 Yeah, exactly.

00:07:05.880 He's got emotionless.

00:07:06.260 Exactly.

00:07:06.820 You have to be because you have to be fair with the fighters.

00:07:09.660 You can't, when the belt starts, they got to have even playing field.

00:07:13.120 They got to take off together.

00:07:14.380 So you have to kind of like, don't pick sides.

00:07:16.520 When you're going, you could do Oscar De La Hoya against Joe Paluca.

00:07:19.640 You can't favor Oscar De La Hoya because he's a favorite name.

00:07:22.180 I look at fighter A, fighter B. When they take off that belt, they give it, they turn that

00:07:26.080 belt over to the official in the ring.

00:07:27.960 They give it to the commission.

00:07:29.260 That means that the judges should be looking at fighter A and B, not looking at a champion

00:07:32.860 in that.

00:07:33.020 So it's purely on the professional standpoint.

00:07:35.520 So who, as your refereeing, you've seen, so you said hardest puncher, you said Tyson.

00:07:39.860 And then middleweight, you said someone else.

00:07:42.340 Julian Jackson.

00:07:43.200 So now, who was the fastest you watch?

00:07:46.020 Like right in front of you, watching these guys fight, who was the quickest?

00:07:48.960 You know, footwork, hands.

00:07:50.400 Well, Sugar Ray Leonard was one that had a lot of footwork.

00:07:52.520 Hector Macho Camacho was another.

00:07:54.200 He was also entertaining.

00:07:55.100 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:07:55.780 Very charismatic individuals in the ring.

00:07:57.760 They can move around pretty good.

00:07:59.480 They have great speed.

00:08:00.500 There's a fighter now that I'm helping out.

00:08:02.140 I'm a consultant with him, Devin Haney, who's fighting next Friday on Showtime, the main

00:08:07.020 event.

00:08:07.440 He's the kind of fighter that you can't hardly hit him.

00:08:09.280 He has a 19-0 record, and with 14 knockouts, Devin Haney.

00:08:12.960 Similar to Mayweather?

00:08:13.820 Like Mayweather.

00:08:14.660 And it happens to be that his father's training this kid, too.

00:08:17.080 Mayweather's father's training.

00:08:18.080 He's training Devin Haney.

00:08:19.500 So he's in Vegas.

00:08:20.420 He's in Vegas, yeah.

00:08:21.740 And he's from Oakland, California.

00:08:23.820 Interesting.

00:08:24.360 And he's a great fighter.

00:08:25.940 Believe me, I say that this kid's going to go places in boxing.

00:08:28.520 You think so?

00:08:29.180 He can hardly touch him.

00:08:30.640 He has good ring mechanics.

00:08:32.200 He's got good reflexes, timing.

00:08:34.140 He can punch.

00:08:34.860 He's all around.

00:08:35.620 This kid has it all.

00:08:36.380 Even Mayweather said that that's the next rising star in boxing.

00:08:38.760 So today, you are gone.

00:08:40.620 You're retired.

00:08:41.480 Your last fight was Canelo versus Rosalito, right?

00:08:45.580 Rosalito Lopez.

00:08:46.140 And you retired back in 2012 when you retired.

00:08:48.240 So today, you've been away from it.

00:08:49.960 When you go back and you have history, you've been in this industry for a long time.

00:08:52.660 Four decades, five decades, right?

00:08:54.600 Exactly.

00:08:55.040 So who do you say now, like, this is my favorite fighter of all time,

00:08:59.860 or these are the greatest fighters of all time.

00:09:01.540 Do you have that now?

00:09:02.740 Yes.

00:09:03.000 I look back now.

00:09:03.820 I say Muhammad Ali was one.

00:09:05.060 I never referee.

00:09:05.720 He was one of them.

00:09:06.680 Roberto Duran.

00:09:07.420 Oh, you put Duran on that list.

00:09:08.660 Oh, yeah, absolutely.

00:09:09.500 Everybody in boxing knows that Roberto Duran is one of the greatest of all times as a lightweight.

00:09:13.540 And you have Julio Cesar Chavez was a great one.

00:09:17.080 Oscar De La Hoya was an outstanding fighter.

00:09:19.540 Mandy Pacquiao, who I referee about four times, he's another outstanding fighter.

00:09:23.380 I mean, Mike Tyson, absolutely, he's in that mix as well.

00:09:25.720 Would you put Mayweather on that list as a top five of all time?

00:09:28.460 He has proven himself, you know, won so many championships, held the titles for over 19 consecutive years.

00:09:34.360 What fighter has done that?

00:09:35.380 None.

00:09:35.660 So for his weight class, would you say he's the greatest of all time for his weight class since he's never been beaten?

00:09:39.580 No, I would not say the greatest.

00:09:41.120 Really?

00:09:41.620 No, no.

00:09:41.960 Tell me why, though.

00:09:42.680 Because I felt like Sugar Ray Robinson was the greatest at 147, then he went to middleweight.

00:09:46.820 But there have been other fighters that have been outstanding.

00:09:49.340 I mean, Sugar Ray Leonard, if you compare both him and Mayweather,

00:09:53.720 I would say that Sugar Ray Leonard had more abilities, more ring mechanics,

00:09:57.760 and he had so many more different techniques in the ring than Floyd Mayweather.

00:10:01.860 Mayweather was a good fighter, excellent, good defense.

00:10:05.480 He was a fighter that hit and didn't get hit.

00:10:07.680 But you watch Sugar Ray Leonard's fights with Hearns and with Marvin Hagler.

00:10:11.620 Today you can watch him on YouTube and it's entertaining.

00:10:14.320 Yeah, very entertaining fights.

00:10:15.700 Yeah.

00:10:15.940 So, by the way, didn't you, you refereed also the controversial fight, right?

00:10:19.660 The knockout with Mayweather and Ortiz, right?

00:10:23.300 Where at the end, you're Ortiz headbutt, you know.

00:10:25.720 Headbutted.

00:10:26.220 And then came back.

00:10:27.360 What happened there?

00:10:28.260 Well, what happened there was Ortiz headbutted Mayweather intentionally.

00:10:32.020 So I took a point as I took a point.

00:10:33.320 He said he didn't do it intentionally.

00:10:34.760 But when you look at the camera.

00:10:35.820 You know, you can see it was intentional, you know.

00:10:38.080 As a matter of fact, he tried to do something earlier in the fight,

00:10:40.580 and I warned him about it.

00:10:41.760 But this time he cut Mayweather.

00:10:43.340 So I had to stop it, give him the warning that I took a point.

00:10:46.600 And then he hugged Mayweather once and kissed him on the cheek.

00:10:49.520 And then he hugged him again the second time.

00:10:51.920 And as I looked at the timekeeper to make sure he saw me when I gave the signal,

00:10:55.160 the time was in.

00:10:56.280 As I looked at the timekeeper because Mayweather was blocking me.

00:10:59.260 So I looked at the timekeeper.

00:11:01.620 He went like this.

00:11:02.700 And next thing I know, Mayweather, Ortiz went to hug him again the third time.

00:11:05.760 And Mayweather just clocked him.

00:11:06.740 Because I already called time in.

00:11:08.400 We told fighters to protect themselves at all times.

00:11:10.860 And that's just what happened.

00:11:11.960 He dropped his guards and Mayweather took advantage of it.

00:11:14.940 Larry Merchant said it best.

00:11:16.460 It was a legal sucker punch.

00:11:18.920 I love that legal sucker punch. 0.99

00:11:21.140 I remember watching that fight.

00:11:22.460 I was watching the fight live and I'm sitting, wait a minute, what just happened here, right?

00:11:26.260 But even after the first left he took, he's still looking at you.

00:11:30.020 At least after the left have some reflexes to move.

00:11:32.800 I don't know why he didn't move.

00:11:33.780 I didn't understand that part.

00:11:34.420 He looked at me like I said, Joe, man, he hit me with a punch.

00:11:36.520 And they came to the right hand and knocked him out.

00:11:38.460 But you know what?

00:11:39.100 When time is in, you don't be hugging and kissing the guy the third time.

00:11:42.840 Yeah, I didn't understand.

00:11:43.700 What I didn't understand is the following.

00:11:45.400 I don't think if the one that was a sucker punch was the first punch, not the second punch.

00:11:49.260 Because the first punch came in and then Mayweather didn't go boom, boom.

00:11:52.820 Mayweather hit the left and then he backed up.

00:11:55.380 And Ortiz is looking at you.

00:11:56.720 Then he does second.

00:11:57.460 I'm like, at least put your hands up.

00:11:59.980 Protect yourself.

00:12:00.620 Well, he was in a concussive episode at that moment.

00:12:03.720 We got hit with that left hook.

00:12:04.640 He was ready.

00:12:06.080 Yeah, I didn't understand.

00:12:07.480 He was there, but not there.

00:12:08.660 And by the way, Victor Ortiz did tell me afterwards.

00:12:11.340 And we had lunch together, dinner together many times after that.

00:12:14.020 He said, Joe, my corner told me to headbutt Mayweather intentionally.

00:12:17.520 He said, I never done that.

00:12:18.480 That's not my style.

00:12:19.500 But they wanted me to do that to stop the momentum.

00:12:22.140 And he says, I got rid of the whole team.

00:12:23.840 I'm no longer with him.

00:12:24.660 He said, I apologize for what happened that night.

00:12:26.800 Historically, was he known as being dirty or no?

00:12:28.720 No, never.

00:12:29.320 He wasn't being known for dirty.

00:12:30.420 I don't remember anything dirty about the guy.

00:12:32.000 No, no.

00:12:32.260 Yeah, that was kind of weird when you saw that.

00:12:33.960 What fight is he fighting that day?

00:12:35.800 Going back to Chavez.

00:12:37.340 I mean, when you hear people talk about Chavez as a boxer, it's a whole different conversation.

00:12:42.100 The amount of fights he had.

00:12:43.420 I don't know how many people during his era fought as much as he fought.

00:12:46.980 He was fighting every two, three months.

00:12:48.920 He was not turning down any fights.

00:12:50.320 What made him so special?

00:12:51.600 Well, there's only one Julio Cesar Chavez.

00:12:53.820 He definitely is one of the great ones in the history of boxing.

00:12:57.400 He had good ring mechanics, a good puncher, could take a good punch.

00:13:01.040 He had great defense as well.

00:13:03.520 He was just one of those special guys that knew how to work the body, work the head. 0.94

00:13:07.920 He figures you kill the body, the head dies.

00:13:10.460 You know, he had a good devastating left foot to the liver, which is one of his trademark punches.

00:13:16.460 And he was definitely an outstanding fighter.

00:13:18.680 He just seems to have it all.

00:13:19.640 You look at certain sports, you find certain sports athletes that have something different

00:13:24.060 than anybody else.

00:13:24.640 And what's so different about him is he had it all.

00:13:26.880 He had it all.

00:13:27.660 Yeah.

00:13:27.920 And then Duran, because I know a lot of times when you hear Tyson talk about boxers, he

00:13:31.860 always goes back to Duran.

00:13:33.100 Yeah.

00:13:33.280 He's always, like, given so much love and credit to Duran and Ali, always.

00:13:37.460 But what made him so special?

00:13:38.940 The boxing skills that he had, I mean, he almost came out unmarked in all fights, for the

00:13:44.840 exception of the one I referee with him in Oscar De La Hoya.

00:13:47.060 The first time when he got cut with a hard jab in the first round.

00:13:50.260 Is this Duran or is this a...

00:13:51.560 No, I'm talking about Charbon.

00:13:52.640 Oh, Duran.

00:13:53.220 I'm talking Duran.

00:13:53.880 Yeah, I'm talking Duran.

00:13:54.600 Duran's outstanding because he had a killer instinct.

00:13:57.360 He had a look in his eyes.

00:13:58.440 He was always focused and always known how to cut corners, cut you down, how to work combination.

00:14:03.820 He was a great counter puncher, good body puncher, good head puncher.

00:14:07.660 I mean, he had all the footwork that he had was unbelievable.

00:14:11.840 His speed he had for lightweight.

00:14:13.540 He was lightweight, welterweight, super welterweight, and middleweight champion.

00:14:17.480 He won division four.

00:14:18.200 That's insane.

00:14:18.980 Exactly.

00:14:19.780 And I remember a referee in his last title fight that he won against Iran Barkley in 89,

00:14:24.160 which I think was one of the best fights I've ever refereed.

00:14:27.020 At my 27th world title fight, Roberto Duran, I ran Barkley.

00:14:30.180 Barkley lost his middleweight title against supposedly a washed up fighter.

00:14:34.580 Duran came back that night like he was a young fighter and took the middleweight championship.

00:14:38.360 You know, post the fight that we had, the Sugar Ray Leonard, I think he got the $10 million purse.

00:14:43.580 It was a number like around the $10 million.

00:14:45.700 And he came back to Panama.

00:14:46.660 I've been to his restaurant when I went to Panama.

00:14:48.260 You know, him and his wife are always there themselves.

00:14:50.540 He's always dancing with his wife.

00:14:51.860 But when you go there, when you go back to that era, if he didn't lose his discipline,

00:14:56.900 and stayed strong and didn't put on the weight, how long do you think he could have gone?

00:15:01.120 He could have gone at least another five more years.

00:15:03.080 He was, he's partied a lot.

00:15:04.840 He started doing drugs and drinking and they have the world by their fingers.

00:15:08.760 He could have gone at least another five more years because he was always in great shape

00:15:13.080 at the first part of his career.

00:15:14.640 The second part, he started fading when he did that No-Moss fight against Sugar Ray Leonard.

00:15:19.400 People said, what the hell happened there?

00:15:21.180 You never see anything like a fighter just walk away in the middle of a run without taking a punch.

00:15:25.960 He got disgusted and just couldn't hit, couldn't deal with Sugar Ray Leonard's tactics and disrespect.

00:15:32.180 He just said, you know what, I'm out of here.

00:15:33.840 And that was in the No-Moss fight.

00:15:35.660 You think that hurt his legacy or do you think the boxing, people who know the world of boxing

00:15:39.700 still put him as one of the great ones?

00:15:41.200 Well, I think it tarnished his career to some extent because people always remember that one.

00:15:45.760 Yeah, I mean, they made movies about him, documentaries about him, all this stuff about him.

00:15:48.960 Yeah, but he was definitely, he still goes out as one of the greatest in the lightweight division.

00:15:53.000 How much, like, you know, a lot of times people ask me questions about entrepreneurship and business

00:15:56.380 and they say, oh my gosh, look at this guy.

00:15:57.920 You know, I've been in the world of sales for a while and I saw a lot of guys come and go 0.61

00:16:01.380 and I would see a guy like, this girl's going to kill it. 1.00

00:16:04.160 She's so amazing, tenacious.

00:16:06.040 Look at him.

00:16:06.920 He's so amazing at the way he talks and communicates.

00:16:10.200 But then there was bad habits that they had on the side.

00:16:12.140 How often you saw guys coming up where you said, this guy could be a future Hall of Fame.

00:16:16.880 He could be one of the best ones that we've ever seen.

00:16:18.620 And then they took a wrong route and made a mistake and then boom, tarnished their entire career.

00:16:22.360 How often did you see that in your world?

00:16:23.760 I saw it quite often.

00:16:24.880 I saw it with a big name like Mike Tyson, who was one of the great ones.

00:16:27.720 He in self-admits in his show that he does the Undisputed Truth talk show that he does.

00:16:33.200 It's a shame to see a fighter like him who had all the talent in the world.

00:16:36.140 And he was just, when he went to Japan to fight Buster Douglas,

00:16:39.920 he was hanging around with girls and doing drugs in Japan, just going crazy.

00:16:45.040 And he loses the title.

00:16:47.000 And from that time on, all the fighters said, okay, you know, Mike Tyson exposed himself.

00:16:52.080 He could be taken.

00:16:53.020 And he was, you know.

00:16:53.900 I mean, even his last fight that I refereed against Kevin McBride in D.C.,

00:16:58.760 I had to stop the fight.

00:17:00.300 Mike Tyson, he was trying to knock this kid out.

00:17:02.760 But Mike Tyson was in no condition to a guy that nobody even heard of, Kevin McBride.

00:17:08.160 I had to stop the fight at the end of the sixth round.

00:17:10.780 Mike Tyson just couldn't deal with it.

00:17:11.880 He was so fatigued.

00:17:13.240 Not that he was taking a pounding, but he just couldn't deal with it no more.

00:17:15.840 In his heyday, he would have knocked this guy out of one round.

00:17:17.940 Yeah.

00:17:18.420 So do you think that's common in the world of boxing?

00:17:20.400 Yes.

00:17:20.680 A lot of fighters—

00:17:21.460 Why do you think?

00:17:22.060 They're uneducated.

00:17:23.620 They're uneducated. 0.94

00:17:24.700 They're not trained properly.

00:17:26.400 You need a good leader, somebody, a good role model to keep you on the right track.

00:17:29.960 Especially when you make it to the top level in your career, you're fighting the big names.

00:17:34.640 You're coming out of poverty.

00:17:36.200 You're living almost in the streets.

00:17:38.160 That makes sense.

00:17:38.560 All of a sudden, you get $10 million.

00:17:40.220 Yeah.

00:17:40.680 And then you guys, $10 million, they buy homes, the best cars in the world, everything.

00:17:45.120 Before they know it, they're strapped out.

00:17:46.600 They get bumped off with a fight.

00:17:47.940 Two fights, they're not making a million-dollar fights anymore.

00:17:50.860 Now they lose their homes, like Mike Tyson lost homes because he didn't have the money to pay for the taxes.

00:17:55.440 They just don't know how to manage their monies.

00:17:57.720 I think they need to be educated a little bit more when they start making this kind of money.

00:18:02.440 I think that's one of the reasons why they respect LeBron so much in the world of NBA,

00:18:06.380 because this is a guy that grew up without a father figure.

00:18:08.240 They didn't go to school.

00:18:09.040 The argument with him and MJ—MJ went to Carolina.

00:18:11.180 He had a Dean Smith, or Kobe had a father that played in the NBA, and LeBron comes in without anything,

00:18:15.660 and he stays so disciplined, all this money being given to him.

00:18:18.060 And you see that in all sports, but in boxing especially.

00:18:21.420 I was just curious to know what you thought about it.

00:18:22.760 Let me ask you, historically, when you think about boxing, what—if you were to say these five events

00:18:27.900 or characters helped the world of boxing, who would you say they would be?

00:18:32.320 Hypothetically, like the movie Rocky, did that help the franchise of boxing?

00:18:36.180 If you were to say a few names, a handful of names, who would you say those names would be?

00:18:39.540 I'd have to say Sugar Ray Leonard was one of them, because when he became Olympic champion,

00:18:43.660 I mean, he was a household name.

00:18:45.140 Oscar De La Hoya, another Olympic champion.

00:18:47.460 What did they do?

00:18:48.060 They changed the game?

00:18:48.940 They inspired other generations, future generations?

00:18:50.920 I mean, they brought great talent to the sport.

00:18:53.600 Even Roberto Duran, I mean, he came out of nowhere from poverty, became one of the best fighters out there.

00:18:58.220 I mean, these guys would sell out arenas.

00:19:00.220 I mean, they were really outstanding fighters.

00:19:02.200 Julio Cesar Chavez, I refereed him against Greg Haugen in Mexico City, Azteca Satan, 136,000 fans.

00:19:09.920 Showed the largest crowd in boxing history.

00:19:11.900 People said, how did this one individual, how did he, how did he, was able to sell out a stadium like that?

00:19:17.220 What was so special about him?

00:19:18.820 There's fighters out there, a handful of them, that really turned boxing around.

00:19:22.020 And of course, Floyd Mayweather is one of them as well.

00:19:24.720 I mean, he's the first athlete to ever make a billion dollars in the sport of boxing, or any sport.

00:19:30.040 So there's a handful of good fighters that make it turn the whole boxing around.

00:19:33.280 Mike Tyson was one, also, he would sell out any arena because of his punching power.

00:19:37.600 How much of it do you think is promotional? How much of it do you think is abilities?

00:19:41.680 Showmanship is what I'm talking about.

00:19:42.620 You've got to have good showmanship, but you've also got to have good promoters behind you, a good marketing team.

00:19:47.260 The promoters are important because if you don't sell a fight right in advance, you have to sell your fight, your show.

00:19:54.500 If you want to be successful, you need a good marketing and promotional team behind you.

00:19:59.740 You cannot do it by yourself.

00:20:01.340 Even though Conor McGregor, when he fought Mayweather, he was a pretty good showman himself.

00:20:05.500 He promoted us.

00:20:06.260 In a big way.

00:20:06.920 In a big way.

00:20:07.840 And I remember they called me to train him.

00:20:09.360 I trained him for five weeks on the rules on boxing.

00:20:12.360 So while he was firing, I'd be in the ring with him and giving him instruction, making sure he did the right thing.

00:20:16.840 So he would look halfway decent in the ring against Floyd Mayweather.

00:20:20.460 He lasted 10 rounds.

00:20:21.560 You know, that's another guy that was able to.

00:20:23.300 Showmanship.

00:20:24.040 And of course, Muhammad Ali, great.

00:20:26.320 You know, he was a good talker.

00:20:27.880 Talker and he performed.

00:20:29.280 And he came across.

00:20:30.780 With Conor, when you were working with him for five weeks, which, by the way, brilliant move on his end.

00:20:35.760 For him to want to bring somebody like you so he can teach him what to do.

00:20:38.480 Because he kept hitting Mayweather in the back of the head every time he would hug him.

00:20:41.080 I don't know if you caught that part when you were watching him.

00:20:42.740 Well, I caught that part.

00:20:43.360 But that's one of the things.

00:20:44.020 I took points from him doing training.

00:20:46.120 You were doing that to him in the training.

00:20:47.200 Yeah, I would take points when I said, no, you can't do this.

00:20:49.720 You know, but when they're in the heat of the battle, you know, they kind of forget.

00:20:53.240 I told Robert Byrd, the referee, before the fight, I said, make sure you watch out for the punches that he likes to hit behind the head.

00:20:58.340 Oh, you said that.

00:20:59.120 I told the referee, we can't watch out for that because I've been training with him.

00:21:03.000 I said, so trying to.

00:21:03.800 Interesting.

00:21:04.120 Don't take any nonsense from him when he starts pulling that.

00:21:06.820 Yeah.

00:21:07.240 If you've got to take points, take points right away to take control.

00:21:10.580 I thought he was going to kick.

00:21:11.740 I thought I was going to expect a kick to Conor.

00:21:14.200 I'm like, if he kicks Mayweather, something's going to happen.

00:21:17.240 Yeah, he'd be disqualified, you know.

00:21:18.820 Yeah, they'd be done.

00:21:19.720 Yeah, they would take points.

00:21:20.940 Were you there when him and Pauly were going at it or no?

00:21:23.220 Yeah, yeah.

00:21:23.480 What happened?

00:21:24.120 What really happened?

00:21:24.880 It was more of a push than anything else.

00:21:27.040 A punch and a push at the same time. 0.95

00:21:29.920 So I would have said no knockdown because it was not a real solid knockdown.

00:21:33.420 So you wouldn't have?

00:21:34.520 No.

00:21:34.880 Because I know Pauly confronted you after one of these.

00:21:36.880 How come you don't say something telemetry?

00:21:38.380 You didn't say anything.

00:21:39.140 You kind of stayed neutral.

00:21:39.620 I couldn't say nothing because I signed a confidentiality agreement prior to that.

00:21:44.980 At that time?

00:21:45.520 Yeah.

00:21:45.860 Prior to the fight?

00:21:46.320 I couldn't talk.

00:21:46.880 Did you ever talk to Pauly about it afterwards or no?

00:21:48.780 So he knows like that wasn't.

00:21:50.180 Yeah, he knows.

00:21:50.640 So let me ask you this.

00:21:51.920 When you were watching them go at it, because Pauly, he's a pretty legitimate boxer.

00:21:56.280 He was two-time world champion.

00:21:57.920 But when he came in, he was in a condition to be sparring.

00:22:00.760 I mean, you could see he was flabby.

00:22:02.240 He was not in a condition to be sparring.

00:22:03.680 No, no, no.

00:22:04.100 He had flown in from New York overnight.

00:22:05.860 Got it.

00:22:06.240 The next afternoon, he's sparring with him.

00:22:08.100 When they were sparring, did you think Mayweather could hang with him or no?

00:22:12.120 I thought...

00:22:12.820 Not Mayweather.

00:22:13.540 I'm sorry.

00:22:14.000 Conor McGregor.

00:22:14.960 Could he hang with him?

00:22:15.580 At the beginning, no.

00:22:16.600 At the end, I said, you know, I think he can hang with Mayweather for a couple of rounds.

00:22:20.040 I was surprised that they went 10 rounds.

00:22:21.680 So you were not expecting for it to go 10 rounds?

00:22:23.500 I thought he'd probably be stopping by the fifth or the sixth, but I knew that McGregor

00:22:27.620 was dangerous enough to maybe hurt Mayweather in the first couple of rounds because he had

00:22:32.840 a good punching power.

00:22:34.280 He was so awkward that he could catch Mayweather.

00:22:37.080 He almost caught him with a good shot in the first early rounds.

00:22:40.500 I mean, the judges, all three judges gave McGregor, I think, the first three or four rounds.

00:22:44.360 Yeah, he got one left in, the uppercut he got in, and then you saw Mayweather back up.

00:22:49.300 You're like, wait a minute.

00:22:50.100 He could get something in there.

00:22:51.760 And that was a punch that I was saying.

00:22:53.040 If he catches Mayweather with a surprise punch like that, he can put Mayweather down.

00:22:56.200 You never know.

00:22:56.780 Of course.

00:22:57.440 I mean, he's got a punch.

00:22:58.400 Sometimes a punch that you don't see coming, I don't want to hurt you.

00:23:00.900 That's right.

00:23:01.520 And that guy is that unorthodox.

00:23:03.440 It's almost like when you play poker and you sit at a table.

00:23:05.820 If you and I have been playing for 10 years, you know my style.

00:23:08.260 I know your style.

00:23:09.060 You're a conservative.

00:23:09.940 Say I'm always aggressive or I tilt faster, but you know my style.

00:23:12.900 You can't tell when a new guy comes in because you don't know his style.

00:23:15.800 You don't have a lot of trends.

00:23:16.940 So Mayweather doesn't know how to fight against a guy like that.

00:23:19.180 Do you think Conor's still going to have a career in boxing or no?

00:23:21.720 You think he's going to come back?

00:23:22.620 No.

00:23:22.980 He may not even have a career in MMA anymore.

00:23:25.340 Yeah, because he's dealing with...

00:23:26.020 He has to get any stop with that guy, Khabib, and that Russian kid. 0.57

00:23:28.800 Yeah.

00:23:29.000 His last fight.

00:23:29.560 What do you think about the Khabib guy? 0.99

00:23:30.760 Well, I think he's dangerous.

00:23:32.060 He'll be around for a while.

00:23:32.960 Can he come switch or no?

00:23:34.700 No, he'll make a mistake like McGregor did.

00:23:36.740 If he does.

00:23:37.440 Yeah.

00:23:37.820 But they think he could.

00:23:39.060 It's just like the other day in Japan when Mayweather fought that kickboxing undisputed

00:23:44.900 champion and Mayweather put him away in the first round.

00:23:47.920 Well, you know, it was a joke.

00:23:49.480 You know, it was...

00:23:50.120 I mean, this kid never boxed in his life and Mayweather just...

00:23:55.140 I mean, even though Mayweather's retired, but he still has the skills, you know, he still

00:23:58.760 has a little spark of the old flesh.

00:24:00.360 Yeah.

00:24:00.520 But when I watch it, I'm like, you know, this almost looks like they're doing a publicity

00:24:04.460 stunt for a movie.

00:24:05.680 It didn't make any sense to me.

00:24:07.260 Well, the fans would say, Mayweather, anything to sell, to give these guys Mayweather like

00:24:11.340 $9 million for two and a half minutes, you know, to fight a guy that never fought in

00:24:16.600 his life.

00:24:17.080 I would say, come on, I'll take him out too, you know.

00:24:19.260 If you're going to pay me $9 million, I'll take you.

00:24:20.800 For that kind of money, of course.

00:24:22.000 Mayweather bought a house in Vegas for $10 million last month.

00:24:25.680 Guy paid him out.

00:24:26.160 So this house is paid for already.

00:24:29.460 This house is sponsored by Japan, you know, so going back to the promotional side you

00:24:33.700 were talking about, best promoters of all time.

00:24:35.660 Obviously, let's just say Don King's on that list.

00:24:37.440 But who else would you put on that list?

00:24:38.640 Barairam, Oscar De La Hoya.

00:24:40.040 Got it.

00:24:40.320 Those are the three?

00:24:41.060 Yeah.

00:24:41.340 You would put De La Hoya on that list?

00:24:42.820 Absolutely.

00:24:43.620 Oh, wow.

00:24:44.260 Interesting.

00:24:44.820 Yeah.

00:24:45.080 Would you put Dana White as a promoter as well?

00:24:47.220 Would you put him in a category like that?

00:24:48.640 But not in boxing.

00:24:49.500 He's MMA.

00:24:49.880 He's not, but as a promoter in those two worlds.

00:24:51.600 A promoter MMA, yes, he's definitely the best.

00:24:53.600 He would be in there.

00:24:54.420 Yeah.

00:24:54.580 Okay, so let's talk a little bit about the comparisons of UFC and boxing.

00:25:00.620 Do you think UFC at all will give a threat to boxing and hurt the boxing business?

00:25:06.440 Absolutely not.

00:25:07.280 Absolutely not.

00:25:08.040 No, no.

00:25:08.800 Tell me why.

00:25:09.440 Because boxing is a sweet science of boxing.

00:25:12.260 MMA is like schoolyard fighting.

00:25:13.960 There's a big difference.

00:25:14.960 I mean, this is boxing is boxing.

00:25:16.700 When you see boxing, these guys, it's like a chess game.

00:25:19.300 These guys are really thinking the game out real smart.

00:25:22.340 Like a boxer does.

00:25:24.300 So MMA guy, you know, you can get guys, MMA, eight, nine fights.

00:25:28.140 They're fighting for a championship.

00:25:29.700 They're still a little green.

00:25:31.260 You can't compare these guys with boxers.

00:25:32.980 That's why MMA guys are going to boxing.

00:25:35.740 They can't seem to make it because boxing, their fighters are so skilled.

00:25:39.660 Much more skilled to bring mechanics.

00:25:41.220 You know, defense and speed and there's a different kind of a training.

00:25:45.980 If a new generation is great for them, the younger generation, 40% of the fans are females.

00:25:52.680 MMA.

00:25:53.640 And that's good.

00:25:54.520 I mean, it's good for MMA because it's a new sport.

00:25:56.800 It's just been around like 12, 13, 15 years or most.

00:25:59.900 They're killing it.

00:26:00.600 Boxing has been there for over 100 years, you know.

00:26:02.480 Yeah, but they're killing it.

00:26:02.940 And boxing is still going strong.

00:26:04.180 The best pay-per-views in comeback sports is boxing.

00:26:09.340 So you don't think boxing is going to be like Sears and Sears goes out of business and Walmart puts them out?

00:26:14.660 No.

00:26:15.220 You don't think it's going to be because Sears has been around for it since 1868, 1886.

00:26:18.000 No, so was HBO.

00:26:18.720 HBO was around for 45 years.

00:26:21.200 They dropped down.

00:26:22.000 But I don't think it's because of lack of competition or because of lack of interest.

00:26:25.420 It's because financially they were not making the numbers.

00:26:28.180 I think they'd rather invest their money into movies rather than sports.

00:26:31.380 We have had some former mobsters on the channel before, and we've interviewed them.

00:26:36.520 Sometimes when I ask them, I say, so talk about gambling.

00:26:39.260 And they would talk about, well, gambling in the 80s, it was very easy to go and fix games in basketball or college basketball because they needed money.

00:26:46.040 But you'll also hear what they'll say about boxing.

00:26:48.740 Back in the old days.

00:26:49.500 Back in the old days.

00:26:50.260 And so for me, I'll give you an idea for me.

00:26:51.740 Look, I'll watch boxing matches sometimes, and I'll sit there and I'll say, there is no way in the world that guy won.

00:26:58.180 No way.

00:26:59.140 It's a draw.

00:26:59.900 No way.

00:27:00.360 Or he won on the scorecard 7 to 5.

00:27:03.800 How are they giving him 8 to 4?

00:27:05.980 Say the Triple G fight versus Canelo the first fight.

00:27:08.300 I don't know if you remember that fight.

00:27:10.040 Did you give that to Canelo?

00:27:11.460 Did you give that fight as a draw to?

00:27:12.980 No.

00:27:13.340 Did you give it to Triple G?

00:27:14.460 No.

00:27:14.840 I swear, after watching it carefully, I gave it to Triple G by two rounds, 7 to 5.

00:27:20.260 So you know the referee that gave it like a lopsided?

00:27:22.560 It was a judge.

00:27:23.480 A judge.

00:27:23.840 Yeah, the judge.

00:27:24.600 Sometimes for me, as a sport, as a fan, forget about being in the world.

00:27:28.600 I'm not in the business.

00:27:29.440 I'm not in the world.

00:27:29.900 I'm not watching.

00:27:30.460 I'm like, you know what?

00:27:31.040 I don't know.

00:27:31.780 I mean, if I'm a money guy, and if I'm a gambler, and if I'm in that world, and if I'm a mob guy, I'm a power guy, okay?

00:27:38.580 And there's still people like that around, money people still around.

00:27:41.280 You know, if I say, you know, go to draw, hey, you know, judge, this is what we're going to do, some of this stuff.

00:27:46.760 You know, the dirty side of boxing, you hear a lot of people talk about, and it loses some people.

00:27:52.120 And then you go to UFC, you're like, listen, someone's going to get knocked out.

00:27:54.940 Here's what's going to happen with this.

00:27:56.000 Someone's going to get knocked out, because this is like a fight, and it's very obvious.

00:27:59.220 It's a lot easier to be able to tell who won and who didn't win, versus boxing.

00:28:03.380 It's just because one judge goes out there and says this, you're sitting there saying, wait a minute, what happened over here?

00:28:07.660 How much do you think the integrity of the game is still there in boxing today?

00:28:11.860 Well, you know, people will get turned off to very controversial decisions.

00:28:16.020 L.A. Byrd happened to be one of the best judges in boxing.

00:28:18.500 That's why she was used for so many world championship fights. 1.00

00:28:21.680 Her husband, Robert Byrd, is also a referee.

00:28:23.880 He was in the Marines.

00:28:24.740 He was a police, a captain of the police in L.A., a very respectable family.

00:28:30.700 She had just had an off night.

00:28:32.380 Then again, I was talking to one of your men last night, Mario.

00:28:35.400 We were talking about positioning of the judges.

00:28:38.140 I totally disagree with the position of the judges today because of the angles where the fighters are blocking.

00:28:45.020 They're throwing punches.

00:28:45.780 Sometimes you don't know if the punch landed or not.

00:28:47.500 That's why they have judges of three different sizes of the ring. 0.99

00:28:50.140 They'll see different punches that are being landed where these two judges saw the punch.

00:28:53.760 That judge didn't see it.

00:28:55.320 They finally go another way.

00:28:56.620 It's the angles.

00:28:57.600 They miss it.

00:28:58.520 Up until recently, I did a study, and I changed position of the judges.

00:29:02.780 I put three on top, higher on high ladders, and three on the bottom.

00:29:06.400 You have to see, and I got into the ring with two fighters, and I gave them clickers.

00:29:10.760 I said, I want you to click when the punch is thrown, and you don't know.

00:29:13.220 When did you do this?

00:29:13.860 How recent was this?

00:29:14.600 Oh, this was about four years ago.

00:29:15.720 And I did the study, and it proved that from the top, the most they were missed per round, per judge, was one to two punches per round they were missed on the top.

00:29:24.700 Well, on the bottom, I would ask the judges, how many punches did you miss?

00:29:27.760 Anywhere from nine to 19 punches per round, per judge.

00:29:31.380 So then I would change the judges from the ones downstairs.

00:29:33.960 I would move them upstairs.

00:29:35.360 For four rounds, we did this, and it was the same result every round.

00:29:39.820 The most upstairs they were missed was two punches.

00:29:42.020 On the bottom, always nine to 19 punches per round.

00:29:45.580 So I said, we got to change the position of the judges, raise them up a little higher, you can see better.

00:29:50.040 That's why at home, the viewers get a better view of the fight, the punches that are being landed, compared to the judges live.

00:29:56.120 Like in tennis, you got the empires, the referees on tennis, they're sitting up high, looking down, and they can see the lines better.

00:30:01.840 Otherwise, they would have had them on the low level.

00:30:03.940 So I said, in boxing, if they would have raised them up from the beginning, they can see, you know, the punches landing.

00:30:08.480 Ring Magazine, I said, give me a little column on it.

00:30:11.440 The guy loved my idea.

00:30:13.100 He said, John, this is the most simplest but most ingenious idea I've ever seen.

00:30:17.540 I said, this is amazing.

00:30:18.600 He gave me four pages, and I proved it with photos from the punches that are taken from the different angles from here, and a photo from up here.

00:30:26.980 How here you can see two punches, two fighters are landing down here.

00:30:30.200 All you see is the back of a fighter.

00:30:32.340 So it was simple, but people said, no, the judges, you know, whatever you put up, they're going to interfere with the view of the fans.

00:30:39.420 I told them, create an acrylic type of a chair, like an empire in tennis, make it acrylic.

00:30:46.060 We would not interfere with the views of the fans, but they wouldn't complain.

00:30:49.740 Mauricio Suleiman, the president of World Boxing Council, said, you know, I like the concept.

00:30:53.640 We're going to do it in Mexico. 0.54

00:30:55.240 We're going to start with the preliminary fights, and we'll do the acrylic chair to see how that goes.

00:30:59.620 I'm still waiting for that to happen.

00:31:01.120 When is that in Mexico?

00:31:02.340 That was last year.

00:31:03.760 But they didn't do it?

00:31:04.520 No, nothing yet.

00:31:05.260 But I guess people are still a little hesitant to make changes.

00:31:07.160 So let me ask you this, sir, you do agree that even yourself, when the fans say, I don't think the decision, I don't agree with the decision,

00:31:13.700 you also agree that they have to make some changes or else they're not getting the right judging being done today.

00:31:18.900 Exactly.

00:31:19.380 I still think that I've been in boxing so long, I think out the box.

00:31:23.380 A lot of folks, yes, don't think that way.

00:31:25.660 I've been in boxing so long, I look to see, I leave those stones unturned when it comes to anything for the betterment of the sport.

00:31:32.180 So I'm always looking to see, what can I do to improve?

00:31:34.840 And that's one area that they need some help.

00:31:37.120 I always say, I know the judges.

00:31:38.460 I know that they're not corrupt.

00:31:39.580 I know they're not on the take.

00:31:41.140 It's just that where they're sitting, the position is not where they should be sitting.

00:31:45.880 They sat them there from the beginning when they first started boxing over 100 years ago.

00:31:49.760 They put them in their own position.

00:31:51.440 They should have been up higher, not down here.

00:31:53.240 It's very hard to trust the fight and trust the sport.

00:31:55.540 Well, it's because you can't score what you don't see.

00:31:58.060 As a fan, you know, when you watch basketball, what happens?

00:32:01.580 Hey, here's a score.

00:32:03.340 Here's how it ends.

00:32:04.120 Here's what happened.

00:32:04.780 Great.

00:32:05.280 Football, very simple.

00:32:06.280 These are the rules.

00:32:06.960 This is what you're doing.

00:32:08.040 And now they're doing instant replay.

00:32:09.920 You know, the whole thing that they added with instant replay.

00:32:11.600 So was this a PI?

00:32:12.600 Did he step in?

00:32:13.300 Like recently, there was a game with the Cowboys.

00:32:15.440 The receiver comes down and gets the ball and they called it.

00:32:18.100 Yeah, it is a touchdown.

00:32:19.480 Initially, they didn't call it a touchdown and then they ended up winning the game.

00:32:22.640 And so I think the boxing side, I don't know.

00:32:25.040 When I watch it, every single time I watch it, literally every single time I watch the

00:32:30.120 boxing match, I think about that today.

00:32:32.240 Every time.

00:32:32.800 I don't know if I trust it.

00:32:33.780 Well, I think until they change the position of the judges, then you're going to start

00:32:36.900 saying, well, there is a big difference now.

00:32:39.200 Now you're going to see as many controversies.

00:32:40.460 What other changes do you think they need to make?

00:32:42.000 You said there's a few things.

00:32:42.900 Well, better training for the judges and for the referees.

00:32:47.380 If you don't work that often, you don't stay sharp.

00:32:49.660 Yeah.

00:32:49.920 You got to be working on a regular basis.

00:32:52.480 You can't work once every two, every three or six months.

00:32:56.400 You got to work like almost every month, like I did do in Vegas.

00:32:59.280 The least amount of judges you have, the more they're going to work.

00:33:02.240 Some states, they have 25, 30 judges.

00:33:04.440 You're not a fan of that.

00:33:05.340 No.

00:33:05.980 I think the least you have, the more they're going to work.

00:33:08.240 But everybody wants to get a license to be a judge or a referee.

00:33:11.460 New York has over 30 judges and I don't know, about 20 some odd referees.

00:33:15.580 Does it pay well?

00:33:16.200 No, it's not a good paying job.

00:33:19.320 I mean, the most you're going to make for a Mayweather, Pacquiao fight, the most you're

00:33:23.160 going to make is probably $20,000.

00:33:24.920 That's not big money compared to the hundreds of millions that you guys are making.

00:33:28.160 You know, so.

00:33:28.900 For a big fight.

00:33:29.840 Yeah.

00:33:30.220 For a small fight, if you make $3,000 or $4,000, it's a lot.

00:33:32.920 Preliminary fights, you're lucky if you make a couple of hundred dollars.

00:33:35.640 Get out of here.

00:33:36.140 Yeah, for small fights, you know.

00:33:37.740 Yeah, wow.

00:33:38.500 Four and six.

00:33:39.660 Yeah, so.

00:33:40.120 How about referees?

00:33:40.780 Are referees making money?

00:33:41.740 No, no.

00:33:42.140 I'm saying no, there's no money to be made.

00:33:43.840 No referee or judges.

00:33:45.020 There's no money.

00:33:45.680 No, no big money.

00:33:46.840 So why are they becoming judges?

00:33:48.080 Is it just more to.

00:33:48.900 They do it because of the love of the sport.

00:33:50.360 The love of the game.

00:33:51.160 Yeah.

00:33:51.420 And you can't stop.

00:33:52.220 There's nothing you can do about the love of the game.

00:33:53.600 I respect the love of the game.

00:33:54.380 It's not like NFL, Major League Baseball.

00:33:56.320 Yeah, they're making money.

00:33:57.180 NBA.

00:33:57.460 Those guys are making money.

00:33:58.160 They get pensions and all that.

00:33:59.280 Boxing.

00:33:59.780 You're an independent contractor.

00:34:01.440 You're like nothing.

00:34:02.360 They don't take care of you the way they should.

00:34:03.800 Are you a fan today?

00:34:05.360 Do you look at it like a fan today?

00:34:07.080 Or are you still looking at it as an analyst?

00:34:08.460 I know you're an analyst.

00:34:09.300 You're with ESPN.

00:34:10.040 I'm a boxing analyst.

00:34:10.600 But of course, I've been trained so many years to be neutral.

00:34:13.120 So I look at things very neutral.

00:34:14.740 Still.

00:34:15.080 Till today, you're still neutral.

00:34:15.760 I try to be neutral.

00:34:16.920 But I also use a lot of common sense.

00:34:19.960 And I look at things a little different than a regular fan.

00:34:23.060 I mean, I see things that you may, you and I be looking at two fighters.

00:34:26.640 And you may see that they're equal.

00:34:27.980 I can see right off the bat that fighter beat doesn't,

00:34:30.240 it's not even close to the fighter A as far as technique, skills, or whatever.

00:34:34.660 I can see who's got the skill, who's going to make it.

00:34:37.140 So who do you think is overly promoted that's not as good as people make him out to be?

00:34:40.760 Anybody out there?

00:34:41.620 Not right now.

00:34:42.300 There's a bunch of fighters that are coming up that have improved themselves.

00:34:44.620 Like Anthony Joshua, heavyweight champion from United Kingdom.

00:34:48.460 You think he's a real deal?

00:34:49.320 I don't know yet.

00:34:50.380 You know, I want to see him against Deontay Wilder.

00:34:52.740 Then I can tell you that he's a real deal.

00:34:54.640 People already compare him to Muhammad Ali.

00:34:56.320 Come on.

00:34:57.120 You know, the guy, he's not a household name yet in the States yet.

00:34:59.820 How do you compare him to Muhammad Ali?

00:35:02.020 You know, he's got potentials, but I don't think he's ready at the level.

00:35:05.320 Not at that level yet.

00:35:06.220 Do you watch UFC as well or not at all?

00:35:08.100 Not much.

00:35:08.900 No, not at all.

00:35:09.780 Do you follow any of it?

00:35:10.700 Not really, not really.

00:35:12.000 Really?

00:35:12.460 No, I'm not really an MMA guy.

00:35:14.360 So you're more the art than you are about the actual two men or women getting in the ring fighting.

00:35:19.720 I'm trying to pick up a little because when I traded Conor McGregor for the Mayweather fight, I got a little bit more into it.

00:35:25.120 I went to a couple of events to watch and see how it was.

00:35:27.600 It's okay, you know, but they need a lot of work to be done there.

00:35:30.460 Doesn't do it for you?

00:35:31.360 No, not yet.

00:35:32.480 Really?

00:35:32.920 Yeah.

00:35:33.120 I've been a boxing man all my life, so it's hard for me to—I kind of like it to some extent, but I see that they still have so much more to learn as far as being skillful in the ring.

00:35:43.120 It's going to be interesting.

00:35:44.120 Things got really serious with De La Hoya and Dana White.

00:35:46.940 It seems like it got pretty serious.

00:35:48.300 I'd like to see De La Hoya getting a little bit involved with the MMA.

00:35:52.240 You would?

00:35:52.920 I would like to see that happen.

00:35:54.120 Why would you want that?

00:35:54.900 Because the new generation, there's a big following there.

00:35:58.500 So you're going to have a bigger captive—you're going to have a good captive audience.

00:36:01.400 And you can have an MMA and boxing on the same cards.

00:36:05.140 And, you know, people say there's a lot of MMA fans that see these fighters.

00:36:08.420 They didn't know.

00:36:09.020 The younger generation, they get hooked on fighters like that.

00:36:12.300 You're saying cross-pollinating together.

00:36:14.260 Yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:36:14.840 You're not saying De La Hoya go and stay Golden Boy and start his own—

00:36:18.380 No, that would be good.

00:36:20.140 Against MMA, against UFC.

00:36:21.740 Why not?

00:36:22.640 Why not?

00:36:23.120 So you would want that.

00:36:23.960 Yeah, I can see—if he did so well in boxing, De La Hoya, why not try MMA?

00:36:29.320 It's something that's competitive.

00:36:30.380 I mean, he likes challenges.

00:36:32.080 You have the World Boxing Council.

00:36:33.800 Then you have the World Boxing Association.

00:36:36.500 Then you have the International Boxing Federation.

00:36:38.680 Then you have the World Boxing Organization.

00:36:40.520 Four major sanctioning bodies that are out there.

00:36:42.600 Doesn't mean because you have one brand, UFC, out there, doesn't mean that somebody

00:36:47.100 cannot come in and start their own.

00:36:49.060 Why not?

00:36:49.560 The more, the better.

00:36:51.260 You let them compete.

00:36:52.420 Who's going to compete best, De La Hoya or Dana White?

00:36:55.280 Who do you think?

00:36:55.820 I think Dana White is doing good for himself because he's been established already, but

00:36:59.860 Oscar De La Hoya has a big following in boxing.

00:37:02.420 He can cross over and draw a lot of fans into MMA just because Oscar De La Hoya is involved.

00:37:09.340 So you think De La Hoya can do more pulling from boxing to MMA than Dana White can do from

00:37:14.640 MMA to—from UFC to boxing?

00:37:16.620 Absolutely.

00:37:17.280 Wow.

00:37:17.460 Because Oscar De La Hoya has a bigger following.

00:37:19.760 He has a bigger name.

00:37:21.660 He has a lot of credentials behind him because he's been in there himself.

00:37:25.340 Dana White has never competed.

00:37:26.520 So are we going to see the end of this or is this feud going to continue between Dana White 1.00

00:37:30.940 and De La Hoya?

00:37:31.640 I think it'll continue.

00:37:32.720 You know, I think it's going to be good.

00:37:34.000 I mean, why not?

00:37:34.860 It's going to keep the game alive.

00:37:36.520 It's going to keep a lot of people wondering why not.

00:37:39.680 Should they?

00:37:40.160 Shouldn't they?

00:37:40.940 You know, it'll be great.

00:37:42.000 I'm actually very curious to see what's going to take place.

00:37:44.000 I'm very curious to see what's going to take place.

00:37:45.320 I can tell you, when I do, like, when I want to invite people over to the house, if I

00:37:48.240 see which one gets more draw of people wanting to see it, more people want to see UFC than

00:37:53.140 they want to see boxing.

00:37:54.360 The younger generation, you're going to get that with the younger generation.

00:37:57.200 The more—

00:37:57.540 Maybe that's right.

00:37:58.600 Maybe boomers or middle-aged, they're more interested in boxing.

00:38:01.060 They're more interested in boxing, yeah.

00:38:02.360 So if that's what you're saying, then that means eventually boxing is going to go away.

00:38:07.520 Not going to go away.

00:38:08.560 But if it's the generation—

00:38:09.260 Boxing will never go away.

00:38:10.340 The new generation is coming up, but that's why Oscar De La Hoya is going both ways because,

00:38:14.280 you know, he feels that he got to try to educate the MMA fans that we got it in boxing as well.

00:38:19.940 Yeah, but then the other side, they come back and they'll say things like, if there was

00:38:23.220 a street fight, there's not a single boxer that could hang with a UFC fighter.

00:38:26.720 What do you think when they say that?

00:38:28.000 Look, what happened with McGregor when he fought Mayweather?

00:38:30.540 Yeah, but you think Mayweather could hang in the UFC ring?

00:38:32.800 With kicks?

00:38:33.280 I don't know.

00:38:34.020 With kicks, yeah.

00:38:35.300 Yeah.

00:38:35.560 Because that's what takes it, right?

00:38:36.760 Yeah, exactly.

00:38:37.160 You see some of these kicks, even this last fight with Jon Jones, he was having this fight

00:38:41.540 with Gustafson, and he was kicking, and then all of a sudden he was done.

00:38:44.900 I don't know if you saw that fight or not.

00:38:46.160 Yeah, I saw the highlights.

00:38:46.720 Yeah, those kicks are what changes the game.

00:38:48.540 Half the time you watch these guys fighting and boxing, no one's getting kicked, so it's

00:38:51.460 a lot safer.

00:38:52.000 I know Mayweather was saying, toying with the idea of, yeah, I'm going to go in UFC and

00:38:55.040 I'm going to do this.

00:38:55.660 I don't see that ever happening without certain rules that he'll create.

00:38:59.760 Well, there was a rule when he fought the Japanese kick the other day. 0.56

00:39:02.040 If the Japanese kick, a fighter would have kicked Mayweather, he would have gotten five

00:39:06.380 million dollars.

00:39:07.600 If he would have kicked, he would have gotten five million, five million dollars.

00:39:10.120 Yeah, that's what the, supposedly, that was on the contract.

00:39:12.440 That's how I think if Mayweather ever does something, he'll get in there.

00:39:15.440 Remember how early I asked you a question?

00:39:16.740 I said, what do you think were some of the, you know, ideas or figures or names that changed

00:39:22.760 the world of boxing and brought more eyeballs to it, right?

00:39:24.980 You said Duran, you said Oscar De La Hoya, you said, you said somebody, Robinson, you

00:39:30.080 said Sugar Ray Robinson, that brought a lot of eyeballs to it.

00:39:32.860 Do you think boxing needs somebody that brings and inspires people to be like, oh my gosh,

00:39:38.320 like we have two heavyweight, two people going against each other because it's almost as

00:39:42.800 if Holyfield needed time as Tyson, as much as he needed, it's almost as if what made the

00:39:47.280 heavyweight exciting back in the days is Ali needed Frazier, Frazier needed Ken Norton.

00:39:52.520 These guys were like all needing.

00:39:53.860 Do you think the fact that there isn't real competition today, people are like, I don't

00:39:57.300 really care to watch boxing.

00:39:58.760 Who's really going to beat any of these guys?

00:40:00.720 They're all boring when I watch them.

00:40:01.960 You think that's what's missing today?

00:40:03.380 Yeah, exactly.

00:40:04.040 That's what, you know, the golden era of boxing was when you had Ken Norton, Muhammad Ali,

00:40:07.780 Larry Holmes.

00:40:09.080 You had so many great heavyweights out there, Joe Frazier.

00:40:11.680 They called Muhammad Ali, said he was one of the greatest, but you cannot be the greatest

00:40:15.040 unless you fought somebody that was really, you need a good dance partner.

00:40:18.700 You just can't make it on your own.

00:40:20.680 You become great because of the competition you had.

00:40:23.940 So Ali was great because when he formed Joe Frazier, the trilogies that they had.

00:40:29.160 And you talk about Redick Bowie, Evander Holyfield, those three fights that they had, of which

00:40:33.820 I referee the first and the third.

00:40:35.660 Those are great fights.

00:40:36.640 Legit fights?

00:40:37.140 You know, yeah, yeah.

00:40:38.220 And, you know, you got Manny Pacquiao who fought one-minute Marquez.

00:40:42.340 They fought four times.

00:40:43.880 I remember I referee the first one where Marquez went down three times in the first round.

00:40:48.000 Any referee on this planet would have stopped it.

00:40:50.200 I saw something in Marquez.

00:40:51.660 I let it continue.

00:40:52.940 Had I stopped it, they never would have had fight two, three, and four.

00:40:56.600 So I gave him a chance and he came back and got a draw in that fight.

00:41:00.600 And they made a couple hundred million dollars because I didn't stop the first fight.

00:41:03.700 Because you didn't stop the first fight.

00:41:04.920 Exactly. But, you know, fighters out there, you only become great when you fight another

00:41:09.300 great fighter.

00:41:10.000 That's what I'm saying.

00:41:10.980 And by the way, I was at the last Marquez fight with Pacquiao sitting next to Pacquiao's

00:41:14.880 wife and his family.

00:41:15.760 Right.

00:41:16.320 And when you saw that punch, you thought the guy was, I mean, he was down.

00:41:20.520 You thought he was dead.

00:41:21.200 Thirty seconds, he was gone.

00:41:22.400 Wife was in tears crying.

00:41:23.640 Very interesting.

00:41:24.600 It was.

00:41:25.060 I think the same goes with baseball.

00:41:26.560 I don't know if you're a baseball guy or if you're Puerto Rican.

00:41:28.860 I know Puerto Ricans a lot of times are in baseball.

00:41:30.660 Did you follow a lot of baseball coming up?

00:41:32.320 Yes, I did.

00:41:32.900 So, you know, Juan Gonzalez was my favorite player.

00:41:35.020 Juan Gonzalez was a Puerto Rican player.

00:41:36.780 Okay.

00:41:37.220 Coming up.

00:41:37.640 But when Major League Baseball went through a strike, in the middle of the 90s, baseball

00:41:41.320 was dying.

00:41:42.140 Stadiums were empty.

00:41:43.140 Nothing really was taking place.

00:41:44.460 And in one season, 98, McGuire and Sammy Sosa went back and forth.

00:41:48.820 Right.

00:41:49.160 They brought the whole thing back and everybody wanted to see baseball again.

00:41:52.500 Yeah, the home run kings.

00:41:53.540 The whole thing.

00:41:54.280 Yeah, I mean, I was in the Army when that took place.

00:41:55.640 Yeah, they wanted to break Roger Marriott from the Yankees.

00:41:58.600 Yeah, they wanted to break his record.

00:42:00.060 He had 60 home runs.

00:42:01.620 61.

00:42:02.240 Babe Ruth had 60.

00:42:03.140 He had 61.

00:42:03.900 And then I think Sosa had 66 that year and McGuire hit 70 or something like that.

00:42:07.740 Right, right.

00:42:08.200 Wasn't there a controversy about drug enhancement?

00:42:10.580 Yeah, of course, for both of them.

00:42:11.920 But, you know, they saved the game.

00:42:14.140 They saved baseball.

00:42:15.100 And then eyeballs came back on again and people started following baseball again.

00:42:19.000 But I think boxing needs that.

00:42:21.080 And I don't think it has it today.

00:42:22.500 Well, it's coming back.

00:42:23.780 You know, it's coming back.

00:42:24.640 You have a lot of good young fighters that are coming up.

00:42:26.440 What's the biggest matchup right now, weight class, that has a lot of talent that are even

00:42:31.360 playing field?

00:42:32.140 Well, yeah, you have the middleweight division and the welterweight division.

00:42:35.440 The welterweight division, you have Keith Thurman, Sean Porter, Earl Spence.

00:42:38.760 So many young welterweights out there.

00:42:41.200 In the top six, you got Manny Pacquiao still in the mix.

00:42:44.380 He's fighting Adrian Broder.

00:42:45.960 Yeah, he's still fighting Adrian Broder.

00:42:47.440 So Manny Pacquiao, the name is still there.

00:42:50.460 I mean, everybody wants to fight Manny Pacquiao because they're going to make a good paycheck.

00:42:53.980 But Manny Pacquiao was supposed to lose his last fight.

00:42:56.560 He ended up knocking out Lucas Batiste from Argentina.

00:42:59.540 Nobody thought that was going to happen, including myself.

00:43:01.980 I thought Batiste was going to stop Manny Pacquiao.

00:43:04.240 It was the other way around.

00:43:05.020 Surprising when that happened, yeah.

00:43:06.260 Yeah.

00:43:06.560 By the way, Manny Pacquiao at his peak versus Mayweather at his peak.

00:43:09.460 Who wins?

00:43:10.180 Peak.

00:43:10.780 At peak?

00:43:11.480 Well, you know, Mayweather, a very good defensive fighter.

00:43:14.040 Pacquiao has some good skills, but he's a little wide with his punches.

00:43:18.280 So you can still give it to Mayweather.

00:43:19.300 Yeah, Mayweather.

00:43:21.180 Mayweather would capitalize on the openings when Mayweather's an excellent counterpuncher.

00:43:25.420 I think Mayweather's still what it was at the peak.

00:43:27.720 You know how earlier we were talking about people are getting into bad habits, drugs,

00:43:31.520 and all that stuff?

00:43:32.060 You said, yes, it's very common.

00:43:33.220 I said, why do you think that is?

00:43:34.220 And he said, because of education, experience, all that other stuff.

00:43:36.660 Who are some of the names in the world of boxing that, behind closed doors, if they get

00:43:42.260 a hold of a boxer, good things happen with them?

00:43:44.520 You know what I'm saying?

00:43:45.480 Like, you know, he is working closely with such and such.

00:43:48.320 He is working closely.

00:43:49.300 Because, you know, when Tyson, his mentor, passed away, then all of a sudden he was a

00:43:52.940 completely different guy.

00:43:53.740 Like, wait a minute.

00:43:54.220 I saw an emotionally stable human being.

00:43:56.680 All of a sudden, who is this Mike Tyson?

00:43:59.100 Everything changed.

00:44:00.220 Who are a handful of names that were very good behind closed doors to develop leaders and

00:44:04.100 build them up?

00:44:04.560 Back in the old days, you know, there was a lot of mentorship.

00:44:06.960 I mean, the trainers had to play the role, not only of a trainer, but the role of a father.

00:44:10.980 Trying to keep these fighters on the right track.

00:44:12.840 A lot of fighters, you have to be humble.

00:44:15.320 And once you start changing, once you start making the money, a big group of individuals

00:44:18.500 start following you.

00:44:19.640 And those are the ones that start taking you to parties.

00:44:22.020 They start introducing you to these beautiful girls.

00:44:24.120 Before then, you know, these girls probably set them up with these guys to try to get them 1.00

00:44:29.180 to drink something.

00:44:30.680 Before you know it, they put something in their drink.

00:44:32.760 Before you know it, they're on some kind of a drug.

00:44:35.200 Now they're addicted to a drug, which is something very common, even individuals not into sports.

00:44:40.940 It's happening a lot today, these days.

00:44:42.480 There's a movie called Chasing the Dragon.

00:44:44.940 It's about drug addiction.

00:44:46.740 And once you start doing a drug, sometimes even the first time you get addicted to it,

00:44:51.360 you're stuck and you can't get out of it.

00:44:53.880 And that happens to a lot of these fighters.

00:44:56.000 Either the alcohol or the combination of alcohol and drugs.

00:44:58.960 Mike Tyson was one of those.

00:45:01.040 Even Oscar De La Hoya, he admitted himself.

00:45:03.360 He'd been in rehab.

00:45:04.340 Oh, yeah.

00:45:04.560 You know, for that.

00:45:05.420 And he's trying to get his life together.

00:45:07.960 And I respect him for that because I believe in second chances.

00:45:10.760 And Oscar De La Hoya, I love him.

00:45:12.880 He's a good man.

00:45:14.100 You know, I really think he's somebody that's very special for the sport.

00:45:17.360 But you get other fighters that don't have the luxury of having somebody that can help you.

00:45:23.060 Oscar, thank God he's financially fit where he can support his care to keep him on the right track.

00:45:30.720 And, of course, once you're addicted to something, you have to maintain.

00:45:34.200 It's like the AA.

00:45:35.760 You got to keep going to these meetings and keep yourself something always focused

00:45:39.300 because if you fall off track, you're going to go back into those bad habits again.

00:45:42.840 So drug addiction is something that can hurt anybody from all walks of life.

00:45:46.760 So who are good people?

00:45:47.900 Who are good mentors in the boxing world today?

00:45:50.100 Well, you need good trainers.

00:45:51.980 You got Robert Garcia, who's Mackie Garcia's brother.

00:45:56.200 He's a good one.

00:45:57.680 There's a bunch of good trainers out there.

00:45:59.700 Freddie Roach was another good one.

00:46:01.500 And there's tons out there of individuals that train fighters.

00:46:05.080 But you need good management team.

00:46:07.640 This is Devin Haney, the fighter I'm talking to you about that I'm helping on as a consultant.

00:46:11.620 He's 18 and over.

00:46:12.660 He's 18 and over, 13 years of age.

00:46:14.320 And his father, Bill Haney, is a father.

00:46:17.140 He's a trainer, along with Floyd Mayweather Sr.

00:46:19.580 And these guys try to keep their son in check.

00:46:22.140 What are you teaching them, though?

00:46:23.140 What are you saying to them?

00:46:24.400 You're in the world.

00:46:25.200 I talk to him myself.

00:46:26.660 And I tell him, Devin, you're going to go places in boxing.

00:46:28.820 You're probably going to be one of the better ones.

00:46:30.280 Keep yourself humble.

00:46:32.100 Don't get cocky.

00:46:33.560 Watch out with the drugs.

00:46:34.640 Watch out with the girls, the people you hang around with. 1.00

00:46:36.900 Because they're the ones that are going to bring you down.

00:46:38.360 So I gave him good advice.

00:46:39.520 I said, you know, I did it myself.

00:46:40.960 I come from a single-parent home.

00:46:43.380 And I maintained myself on the right track by knowing that if I kept myself on the right

00:46:47.660 track, it was a chance for me making it as a world champion.

00:46:50.280 I didn't make it in boxing as a world champion.

00:46:52.360 But I said, you can at least make it like I did.

00:46:54.620 I became a world champion in life.

00:46:56.200 And that's because I did the right things.

00:46:57.880 Always stayed the right way.

00:46:58.900 What do you mean by the girls?

00:46:59.780 So talk about the girls. 1.00

00:47:00.800 Girls? 0.96

00:47:01.260 Well, girls, you know, beautiful girls. 0.55

00:47:02.960 You know, you're young.

00:47:03.600 And your hormones kicked in.

00:47:05.400 And now you got money.

00:47:07.200 How do you tell them to control a door?

00:47:08.820 It's going to be hard.

00:47:09.880 But, you know, you have 10 good years of boxing.

00:47:13.100 And you want to get yourself a girlfriend.

00:47:14.380 You can't stop somebody from having a girlfriend or getting married.

00:47:17.540 But do it the right way.

00:47:19.460 Keep yourself focused.

00:47:21.060 And don't let yourself go on the wrong track.

00:47:23.720 Because if you stay on the right track with a beautiful young lady that you have,

00:47:26.840 Sean Porter got married a couple of years ago.

00:47:29.560 And he was single up until he was about 28 years old.

00:47:31.940 But he kept himself on the right track.

00:47:33.840 Finally got a nice young lady. 1.00

00:47:35.280 And they got married recently.

00:47:36.640 They have a little baby.

00:47:37.600 And I talked to him.

00:47:39.020 I was also advising him with his team.

00:47:40.940 He's a world champion right now, 147.

00:47:43.760 And I think Sean Porter is one of the toughest ones in the welterweight division.

00:47:47.460 But it's focusing.

00:47:48.760 You have to be focused.

00:47:50.140 And not only in boxing, but in all walks of life.

00:47:52.780 If you want to be somebody special, you got to maintain your composure and learn to be humble.

00:47:57.380 And, yes, always be focused on that.

00:47:59.440 Just because you have money doesn't mean that you can control the world.

00:48:03.360 It doesn't mean that you're going to let your guards down.

00:48:06.320 You have to maintain yourself in the right way so you can say, I got to keep focused so I can keep growing.

00:48:12.260 If I change my pace, I'm going to fall apart.

00:48:16.260 You have to have a good solid foundation so that you can build off of it.

00:48:20.360 How did you emotionally stay in place?

00:48:21.940 Me, I've always been humble and I always want to help people out.

00:48:25.360 And I know by helping people out, I have to be a role model.

00:48:28.400 And I have to try to, not only in boxing, but I can talk to people from all over the world.

00:48:33.200 I've been with three presidents talking one-on-one like you and I are talking right now.

00:48:37.340 I've been blessed with so many things in life.

00:48:39.960 I have three beautiful daughters.

00:48:41.280 I've been married for 53 years.

00:48:42.700 And I've always tried to keep myself on the right track by having a good heart and always giving, paying it forward.

00:48:50.680 And it's not like you've had, I mean, you've had some challenges you faced with your daughter when she went through.

00:48:54.540 And you guys call your daughter the undisputed champion, right?

00:48:58.000 Exactly.

00:48:58.380 So why don't you talk about what happened with your daughter?

00:48:59.640 Well, she was involved in a car accident 21 years ago.

00:49:02.240 She ended up quadriplegic.

00:49:03.560 She was in a car accident with my wife, Sylvia.

00:49:05.280 It was one of the things that happened to her.

00:49:08.080 And to this day, she still says, Dad, don't worry about me.

00:49:10.540 I'm okay.

00:49:11.420 She gets in her car every day.

00:49:12.620 She goes to the gym five days a week.

00:49:14.340 She works out.

00:49:15.140 She's the most beautiful young lady you want to see.

00:49:17.460 I took her recently to meet J-Lo.

00:49:19.920 She's a big fan and I know J-Lo.

00:49:22.060 My daughter is really, she's focused 100%.

00:49:24.480 We're keeping our family together.

00:49:26.360 We all live in Vegas.

00:49:27.160 And you're still with your wife?

00:49:28.400 So my wife, my wife, and I work with ESPN as a boxing analyst.

00:49:31.960 I have a show at Fair But Firm on Facebook.

00:49:35.340 That's every Monday.

00:49:36.740 I have a talk show and I do the Joe Cortez show on Tuesday.

00:49:39.920 Variety type of show.

00:49:41.240 A show that I want to try to put together in Vegas on local TV.

00:49:44.600 By the way, how'd you come up with the Fair But Firm?

00:49:46.460 I was doing an interview like we're doing right now and I was watching it.

00:49:49.640 The gentleman asked me, what does it take to be a good referee?

00:49:52.800 I said, well, you have to be fair with the fighters, but by the same token, you have to be firm to take control.

00:49:57.740 But when I saw the interview, I said, fair but firm.

00:50:01.680 I'm going to try that.

00:50:03.380 And it stuck.

00:50:04.700 Yeah, I'm fair but firm.

00:50:06.000 I think George Foreman said, you know one thing about Joe is he's fair but firm.

00:50:10.600 And I became a branding for you.

00:50:13.600 Last series here.

00:50:14.620 So the last thing we do is we call this a speed round.

00:50:16.960 I'll give you a name and tell me the first thing that comes to your mind.

00:50:19.840 Okay.

00:50:20.160 Give you a name and you tell me what comes to your mind.

00:50:21.720 Dana White.

00:50:22.480 Dana White.

00:50:23.060 MMA is good for the sport of MMA.

00:50:25.340 Done a lot for the sport and the new generation is definitely following UFC.

00:50:29.340 Tyson.

00:50:30.240 Tyson, the most devastating puncher in the history of boxing.

00:50:33.040 Tyson Fury.

00:50:33.920 Tyson Fury.

00:50:34.500 Surprising defense, offense, surprised me.

00:50:38.960 And I think he has potentials to go a long way to the heavyweight division.

00:50:43.220 Pauli Malignaggi.

00:50:44.400 He was a good fighter from Brooklyn, New York.

00:50:46.340 Italian descent.

00:50:47.360 Skillful fighter.

00:50:48.920 Brought a lot to boxing.

00:50:49.820 Golden Glove champion.

00:50:50.840 He's a good commentator for Showtime.

00:50:52.640 Don King.

00:50:53.420 Don King.

00:50:54.180 Mr. Don King with older hair.

00:50:56.180 Something like mine.

00:50:57.300 And he was one of the best promoters in boxing.

00:51:00.520 In Muhammad Ali's.

00:51:01.660 Anthony Joshua.

00:51:02.780 Anthony Joshua.

00:51:03.580 Off-and-coming great British heavyweight champion.

00:51:06.480 WBA, IBF, and WBO champion.

00:51:09.240 So he's somebody to record with in the heavyweight division.

00:51:12.120 Khabib.

00:51:12.540 Khabib MMA.

00:51:14.120 He surprised McGregor by stopping him.

00:51:16.520 He has a great career in MMA.

00:51:18.480 George Foster.

00:51:19.720 George Foster.

00:51:20.760 He beat me back in 1963.

00:51:23.220 Sixth round fight at Manchester Square Garden.

00:51:25.040 A decision that was kind of close.

00:51:27.360 But I accept the defeat.

00:51:28.820 You guys friends still?

00:51:30.120 I know I was talking to him.

00:51:31.320 I'm looking for him.

00:51:31.840 I want a rematch.

00:51:32.760 Never.

00:51:33.580 You've never spoken to him after that.

00:51:35.240 No, I never saw him after that.

00:51:35.940 Wow, that's interesting.

00:51:37.040 Triple G. 0.83

00:51:37.640 Triple G is one of the toughest middleweight champions up until he fought Canelo Alvarez.

00:51:42.900 He's seen his better days.

00:51:44.640 He brought a lot to boxing.

00:51:45.680 I'd like to see him fight Canelo Alvarez to settle the score with a rubber rematch.

00:51:50.100 What do you think wins?

00:51:50.700 I think Canelo will beat him easier the third time.

00:51:54.660 Canelo?

00:51:55.020 What do you say about Canelo?

00:51:55.820 Canelo Alvarez is a superstar in boxing today.

00:51:58.760 He brings a lot to boxing.

00:51:59.840 He has a good promotional team behind him, Oscar De La Hoya.

00:52:02.340 And I think Canelo is somebody to reckon with for the next couple of years.

00:52:05.440 I'll leave it at that.

00:52:06.340 I love that.

00:52:06.920 I love the commentary, the stories, the experiences you've had.

00:52:10.580 You know, it's always great to sit down with somebody who has gone to the top of their field,

00:52:14.500 no matter what that field is.

00:52:15.520 It doesn't, I don't care what industry you're in, it's not easy to go to the top of any field

00:52:19.020 and be called the international, being invited to be in the International Hall of Fame of Boxing.

00:52:23.180 That's a very big deal to be a part of.

00:52:25.400 And I appreciate you coming out and being a guest today.

00:52:28.660 By the way, are you on Twitter or on Instagram?

00:52:30.300 Are you active on social?

00:52:31.240 Are you more on Twitter?

00:52:32.380 I'm on Twitter.

00:52:33.260 Okay.

00:52:33.940 Send us a tweet.

00:52:35.000 Let us know what you took away from it.

00:52:36.660 And any questions you got for him, send a question to him on Twitter.

00:52:40.140 Again, thank you so much for coming out.

00:52:41.460 Thank you very much.

00:52:42.160 It's a pleasure.

00:52:43.300 Thank you.

00:52:43.940 Thanks, everybody, for listening.

00:52:45.140 And by the way, if you haven't already subscribed to Valuetainment on iTunes, please do so.

00:52:49.880 Give us a five-star.

00:52:51.280 Write a review if you haven't already.

00:52:52.640 And if you have any questions for me that you may have, you can always find me on Snapchat,

00:52:56.860 Instagram, Facebook, or YouTube.

00:52:58.820 Just search my name, PatrickVidDavid.

00:53:00.700 And I actually do respond back when you snap me or send me a message on Instagram.

00:53:05.700 With that being said, have a great day today.

00:53:07.440 Take care, everybody.

00:53:08.160 Bye-bye.

Valuetainment - April 19, 2019

Episode 285 - UFC vs Boxing - Hall of Fame Referee Gives Insight

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