Valuetainment - Episode 337： American Snipers Widow- PTSD, Marriage, Life

00:00:00.980 30 seconds, one time for the underdog, ignition sequence start, let me see you put em up, reach

00:00:09.240 the sky, turn the stars up above, cause it's one time for the underdog, one time for the

00:00:16.220 underdog.

00:00:17.300 I'm Patrick Bedevi, host of Alitim, and today I'm sitting down with the American Sniper

00:00:20.740 Widow, Teo Calo, and we talked about a lot of different things from PTSD, marriage, life,

00:00:25.960 what happens when a husband's away for two years and you don't see your husband, how

00:00:29.600 do you make marriages like that work in a lot of stories you haven't heard before, and

00:00:33.260 a part of it, a part of this interview, gets very emotional, stay tuned.

00:00:37.460 Teo, thanks for being on Alitim with us.

00:00:39.160 Thank you for having me.

00:00:39.660 You know, the more and more I go into the stories and the interviews and all the things I look

00:00:42.900 at on what you had to go through, the story, the movie, there are so many amazing scenes,

00:00:48.060 myself being in the military, there are a lot of different aspects, we watch so many marriages,

00:00:52.860 how it was the difficulty, the challenges of raising kids, all these things that takes

00:00:57.840 place, it's very technical and a lot of times from the civilian side, people don't know

00:01:02.480 all the details, the challenges, the struggles as being a mother, a wife, a supportive wife,

00:01:06.480 trying to make it work, two and a half years away on a three year time, I mean it's just

00:01:10.780 challenging times and at the same time you want to support, so I got a lot of angles I

00:01:14.360 want to go through with it, but prior to doing that, I think it's best we just start off with

00:01:18.520 we know the movie, we see the stories, we see what it was like when you guys first met at

00:01:23.500 the bar, how close is that to actually how it was when you met him the first time?

00:01:28.780 Is that how it is with you guys, you're like suddenly single after three beers?

00:01:33.340 It's pretty spot on, they did a good job really trying to make sure that the facts and details

00:01:37.560 were accurate, even the guys that did the props wanted to get it right for my kids and I think

00:01:41.820 that was pretty special, but yeah I did, I drank scotch that night on the rocks and it came back up

00:01:47.900 and Chris held my hair back just like Bradley did for Sienna in the movie and so a few of the details

00:01:53.180 are changed just because you have to make it really concise, that's about it.

00:01:56.840 So was it per question you had to take a shot, did that happen or was that Hollywood?

00:01:59.900 No that part didn't happen.

00:02:00.460 So that part, and did the guy come up who says hey how you doing, can I, and you said hey if you

00:02:05.300 were six inches taller and you didn't put your wedding band away, did that also happen or no?

00:02:10.000 Well I was disagreeing strongly with one of Chris's friends when he decided to kind of break up the

00:02:15.640 disagreement and say hi to me at the same time, so the writer Jason Hall who's fabulous, we talked quite a bit

00:02:22.520 about how do we actually, he said what were you arguing about, I said I don't know, and he said what would

00:02:26.180 piss you off and I said a married guy hitting on me would piss me off, so that's kind of how that

00:02:29.800 started, so we just, we created something that's as authentic as we can to who we are and concise

00:02:36.500 enough to put it in a movie where it makes sense.

00:02:38.380 So I watch a lot of Chris's interviews and I asked myself, I said okay, you know we'd go out a lot as

00:02:43.700 military and we'd party a lot, we'd cause a lot of havoc because I'm sure he probably did that as well

00:02:47.280 because he seemed like a party guy, he seemed like a fun guy, he seemed like a type of guy that knew how to

00:02:51.300 get the guys to like him and he probably had a lot of friends around him, but his flirting style seemed

00:02:56.080 different than some guys, was it just the fact that he was just so real, genuine, just himself, like

00:03:01.640 almost the kind of guy that just, here's who I am, I think you're pretty and still seemed a little witty,

00:03:07.320 was that his approach?

00:03:08.660 Yeah, you know what, it's interesting, you're very perceptive because a lot of people don't pick up on

00:03:12.340 the fact that he had such a good sense of humor because our story has been portrayed with the drama

00:03:16.220 being sort of the focus point and he was extremely funny in exactly how you described

00:03:20.880 and yeah, you know, it's interesting, he really wasn't a flirt, which is interesting. I used to

00:03:25.700 tell him you should write a book on how men can charm women because he legitimately, authentically

00:03:30.460 had this very romantic side and came up with some of the best things he would say. I mean,

00:03:36.100 I remember before we were engaged and he said, you know, if I could sit with God and he asked me to

00:03:41.420 create the perfect woman, I couldn't have even created you because I wouldn't have dreamed you

00:03:44.720 up.

00:03:45.040 Get him.

00:03:45.540 Right?

00:03:46.240 Right?

00:03:46.880 Taya Playa, he's the, he, he, he, he, he, he, he was so, he was so serious and I mean,

00:03:50.880 we were sitting in front of a bonfire and I was sitting on his lap and he had his arms around

00:03:54.680 me and I was like, oh my God, but it's the way he said it, right?

00:03:57.760 Yeah.

00:03:58.120 That I was like, it was like he went to a depth of his being to say that and he was vulnerable

00:04:02.060 and he wasn't vulnerable a lot.

00:04:06.180 So I think when he would do that kind of thing with you, you were like, oh my gosh, like he really

00:04:10.740 means it.

00:04:11.520 And that's what I picked up on the first night in the bar when I found out he had just graduated

00:04:16.280 buds and he told me a few other things he did instead that were very funny.

00:04:19.380 And, and when I finally got him to admit it, you know, I had an opinion of Navy SEALs and

00:04:24.500 I told him, you know, egocentric, you know, glory seeking all of these things.

00:04:28.800 And he looked at me as if, you know, I told him the sky was green and he said, I would die

00:04:34.700 for my country.

00:04:35.580 He really said that.

00:04:36.600 Yeah.

00:04:36.940 Was that on first time you met him?

00:04:38.540 Yeah.

00:04:38.660 First time I met him.

00:04:39.520 And I was like, whoa, this guy, and, and he genuinely was asking how, how could that

00:04:43.220 possibly be?

00:04:43.800 Like it was confusing to him.

00:04:45.580 It wasn't confrontational and it wasn't, um, defensive.

00:04:50.080 It was just how, how, how do you come to that conclusion?

00:04:51.980 It's got the chills out of my body.

00:04:53.340 Yeah.

00:04:53.480 It's crazy.

00:04:53.700 Because Bradley depicted that's so good.

00:04:56.240 Bradley's insane.

00:04:56.420 Unbelievable.

00:04:58.820 Wait, why would you say I'm self-centered?

00:05:00.240 I'd lay down my life for my country.

00:05:02.340 Why?

00:05:03.460 Because it's the greatest country on earth.

00:05:04.840 I'd do everything I can to protect it.

00:05:06.140 But yeah, he really got the humility of Chris and the kindness of Chris.

00:05:10.580 And I felt like that was a big part of who Chris was.

00:05:14.700 And Bradley did an accent, which people told him not to do, right?

00:05:17.780 Because that's kind of a risk as an actor.

00:05:19.880 You can really throw the movie if you don't do it well, but he killed it.

00:05:22.920 So yeah, it's good.

00:05:24.240 And the whole humility side you're talking about with Chris is I watched him on Conan O'Brien when he was being interviewed.

00:05:30.060 And I think Conan said, so what's the difference between SEAL Team 3 and 6?

00:05:33.040 This is, well, you know, 3 is this.

00:05:34.280 And if you want to get into 6, you kind of have to do another boot camp to get into 6.

00:05:38.420 He says, you know, did you ever want to be in 6?

00:05:41.180 And he says, not while I was in, but once I got it, I wish I would have, right?

00:05:44.960 Most people are not going to say that.

00:05:46.460 You know, it's not an answer you give.

00:05:47.700 You would probably say, no, I was very proud to serve with the team that I had, but, you know, I'm very respectful of SEAL Team 3.

00:05:52.580 That's like the politically correct answer to give.

00:05:55.680 But he was just flat out saying, I wish I would have done it.

00:05:57.640 You know, and that just kind of gave the side of, you know, the shucks.

00:06:02.200 You know, I wish, you know, it was very humble.

00:06:05.060 This is who I am.

00:06:05.880 I should have probably done it.

00:06:06.840 I kind of made me, it made me want to like him even more.

00:06:09.860 Yeah.

00:06:10.080 And you know what?

00:06:10.580 People would meet him all the time and say, I hear this so often.

00:06:13.920 I met him and I spent a little bit of time with him and I felt like we were going to be best friends.

00:06:17.440 He had that way about him because his guard was down.

00:06:20.260 And he was, he just, like you said, he was who he was.

00:06:23.680 But if he was talking to you, he looked you in the eye.

00:06:25.900 And if somebody was trying to get his attention or he didn't break eye contact and he didn't break the conversation with who he was talking to.

00:06:32.120 If a kid was talking to him, it could be 30 minutes and he gave him his full attention until the kid would be done.

00:06:36.960 And there could be a line waiting.

00:06:38.440 There could be people tugging on him.

00:06:39.600 It doesn't matter.

00:06:40.420 If he's talking to you, he's talking to you.

00:06:42.320 And I think that was a big part of his appeal.

00:06:45.340 He also was very lighthearted about things and himself, which I think is, is good.

00:06:50.300 You know, you see him on TV and he didn't, you know, Bill O'Reilly, he wore a baseball hat, right?

00:06:54.960 This is me.

00:06:55.980 And I love that unapologetic part of him.

00:06:59.120 That was just, this is me.

00:07:00.440 You're going to take me or leave me.

00:07:01.940 And I'm okay with either.

00:07:03.380 Even when I first met him.

00:07:04.880 I mean, I remember there was a time I was on the phone with him and I let him call me for a long time.

00:07:10.460 And then one day I found out my aunt had died and so I called him and a couple of things impressed me on that call.

00:07:15.960 One was he said, how do you feel about it?

00:07:18.180 Right?

00:07:18.500 Which was interesting.

00:07:19.140 Most people assume they already know how you feel about it, you know?

00:07:22.200 And then the next day was the part that impressed me from that phone call.

00:07:25.420 He said, when you called and we got off the phone, he said, I ran into the other room with all the guys, woke them up and started jumping on their beds and saying, Taya called, Taya called.

00:07:33.420 And I was like, seriously?

00:07:34.860 We're in our 20s and he's like, I was so excited.

00:07:36.960 Yes.

00:07:37.120 And I started laughing and he said, they said you would never call and I wouldn't get it.

00:07:40.640 He's like, I did though, didn't I?

00:07:41.940 You know, he's like, I woke him up to tell him.

00:07:43.320 And I thought that's so unabashed, right?

00:07:46.120 But I can see guys like that.

00:07:48.380 Guys like that were guys you like to hang out with.

00:07:50.500 They were just real.

00:07:51.320 You wanted those type of guys around you.

00:07:54.140 How were his parents, by the way?

00:07:55.340 Was it a disciplined type of an environment, a faith environment?

00:07:57.980 Was it a church going environment?

00:07:59.300 What kind of environment did he grow?

00:08:00.900 Really?

00:08:01.240 Yeah, all of that.

00:08:01.940 They were great parents.

00:08:02.900 You know, they did go to church a couple of times a week.

00:08:05.280 And they, Chris, knew the Bible really, really well.

00:08:09.020 And, you know, they were believers in discipline, but it was controlled, right?

00:08:13.620 So, you know, never hitting their kids in anger or anything like that.

00:08:17.640 So, but if you needed a spanking, you got a spanking.

00:08:19.740 But it was like everybody was going to be calm.

00:08:21.660 And, you know, I mean, I think it was very principled and well thought out.

00:08:26.840 Yeah.

00:08:27.340 And how about yourself, your parents?

00:08:29.220 Yeah, my parents were phenomenal.

00:08:30.900 I mean, my mom was raised in Southern California, my dad in Oregon.

00:08:34.360 So maybe a little softer on both of those states.

00:08:37.560 But they definitely wanted me to be polite and intelligent and take my academics seriously.

00:08:45.580 And, you know, we had a lot of fun.

00:08:47.120 We'd do food fights in the kitchen, for example.

00:08:48.780 That was nothing, you know, out of the ordinary.

00:08:50.500 So we had a lot of fun.

00:08:51.800 Food fights in the kitchen.

00:08:52.900 Yeah, why not, right?

00:08:53.760 That is great.

00:08:54.700 Just fun.

00:08:55.720 So they're very playful.

00:08:56.820 And I think Chris and I have that in common.

00:08:58.040 We were both just really playful and we connected on that level.

00:09:01.720 But they weren't, they didn't probably expect as much of me in the ways that I expect of my kids with chores and stuff like that.

00:09:09.160 They were pretty easy on me with that.

00:09:10.720 Now, you said you would never date a seal.

00:09:14.320 And then he walked away and he came back.

00:09:16.580 And then you said, I changed my mind.

00:09:18.080 I would never marry him because your sister had dated a seal.

00:09:20.900 Is that part true that your sister did date a seal?

00:09:23.000 No, she married a guy who was in Buds.

00:09:26.220 Oh, she married a guy who was in Buds.

00:09:28.200 Yeah.

00:09:28.680 Got it.

00:09:29.380 So when you said that, so he walked away, comes back.

00:09:31.820 Did that part also happen?

00:09:33.000 Well, he didn't walk away when I said I'd never, he said, well, I guess I'd better let you go.

00:09:37.180 But by that time I was already attracted, you know, and I said, what do you mean?

00:09:40.080 And he said, well, you said you'd never date a seal.

00:09:42.000 And I said, no, I said I'd never marry one.

00:09:43.840 Got it.

00:09:44.260 And then he was like, oh, in that case, let me get your number, right?

00:09:46.720 How long after that did you know you were going to marry this guy?

00:09:51.100 Who was, I mean, we were engaged within six months.

00:09:53.520 Okay, got it.

00:09:54.300 Yeah.

00:09:54.700 Okay, good.

00:09:55.140 Pretty quick.

00:09:55.940 And then after that, how much later did you guys get married?

00:09:57.920 Six months later.

00:09:58.840 So it was almost a year to the day after we met him.

00:10:00.820 Wow.

00:10:01.840 So when you got married, was he already living the lifestyle of military, you know, deployment?

00:10:07.900 Is he already doing all of that or not yet?

00:10:09.860 No, he had just graduated Buds when I met him.

00:10:11.760 In fact, the week that he was there, it was sort of their, they were drinking every night and celebrating and that kind of thing.

00:10:19.120 Okay, got it.

00:10:19.920 So you hadn't yet experienced he's going to be gone six months, three months.

00:10:23.360 Did you process that yourself prior to getting married to him or no?

00:10:26.060 I mean, I thought about it, but I think this is why I'm so passionate.

00:10:29.380 We have the Chris Kyle Frog Foundation where we serve marriages.

00:10:32.180 And one of the reasons I'm so passionate about it is a lot of these people, we're not getting into the life because it's, you know, it's not glamorous.

00:10:39.180 It's not going to be easy.

00:10:39.940 You're not going to have a lot of money, right?

00:10:41.260 But you love somebody enough to try.

00:10:43.520 And there was something so unique about Chris that it was just irresistible.

00:10:46.560 I mean, I really was genuinely happy and laughing more than I had laughed with anyone.

00:10:52.060 And I loved his youthful nature and his vulnerability, the things that we talked about.

00:10:56.680 And so it was just sort of one of those things where I can't not marry him.

00:10:59.880 I'd be an idiot, you know?

00:11:01.020 And I remember asking my dad after he met Chris and we were engaged, and I said, you know, do you have any reservations?

00:11:09.480 And he said, about Chris, absolutely not.

00:11:11.520 And he said, but my only concern, Taya, is that he's probably going to war, and war changes people.

00:11:18.120 And I said, well, you don't know.

00:11:18.820 Your dad said that?

00:11:19.220 Yeah.

00:11:19.720 And my dad was a lieutenant colonel in the Marine Corps when he retired.

00:11:22.660 He was in reserves most of the time.

00:11:23.960 And I said, yeah, but you don't know Chris.

00:11:26.420 Nothing changes him.

00:11:27.300 Wow.

00:11:27.820 Right?

00:11:28.380 He's just who he is.

00:11:29.300 And that is true, but Chris and I had kind of a laugh about that before he was killed, maybe a month or two before.

00:11:35.480 And I said, you know, my dad said that.

00:11:37.060 And he goes, really?

00:11:37.700 And I said, yeah.

00:11:38.320 And he goes, I guess he knew what he was talking about, huh?

00:11:41.080 And I'm like, yeah, I guess so.

00:11:42.640 So you never told him that until the month before you got married?

00:11:45.960 You never brought it up?

00:11:47.100 Oh, I didn't bring it up to Chris probably until maybe a month or two before he died.

00:11:53.080 So you get married in March of 2002.

00:11:56.800 After that, how much longer until he got deployed the first time?

00:12:01.700 I mean, he went right into a workup.

00:12:03.020 And then he was the second team out.

00:12:05.200 They were there when the war kicked off.

00:12:07.060 So it was pretty soon after.

00:12:09.080 I mean, I didn't have kids.

00:12:10.740 I think it was within the year.

00:12:12.360 So 11 years of being married, how long was he deployed?

00:12:15.100 How long was he gone?

00:12:15.840 Oh, my gosh.

00:12:16.560 I mean, if we could do the math on it, it was so much.

00:12:18.840 Really?

00:12:19.300 Yeah, because, you know, there's stuff that's on the books, stuff that's not on the books, right?

00:12:23.560 And there's trainings and workups and things.

00:12:27.440 Even when they were, you know, quote, unquote, home, their training wasn't in San Diego a lot of times.

00:12:32.520 Some of it, of course, was.

00:12:33.580 But some of it was, you know, in different schools and different places.

00:12:37.320 More than half the time?

00:12:38.620 Oh, for sure.

00:12:39.440 More than half the time?

00:12:40.440 For sure.

00:12:41.240 You're not just going out there, maybe sacrificing your own life.

00:12:46.080 There's also sacrifices still going on at home.

00:12:49.800 You can serve in the military and have a good marriage, but you just need to be aware of it so you can take those steps to take care of it.

00:12:57.440 He even said on an interview with a pastor, he was speaking at a church, and the pastor talked about marriage and the struggles of marriage.

00:13:02.880 I think you guys, at one point, were going through a possible bankruptcy financially.

00:13:08.020 I don't know what it was when he was talking about it.

00:13:10.000 And he said, Navy SEAL, 95% of marriages don't work.

00:13:14.040 That's the number that Chris said.

00:13:15.720 What was different about your marriage for you guys to be able to last as long as you guys did?

00:13:19.360 Right.

00:13:19.640 And that's a good point, by the way.

00:13:20.780 We actually were conned out of a bunch of money that was an investment, but it was a Ponzi scheme.

00:13:26.120 That was the time when people were really, that was happening.

00:13:28.320 And then the real estate market crashed in 2008, too.

00:13:31.000 And so, and we were moving because he got out of the military.

00:13:32.840 So it was like the perfect storm.

00:13:34.680 And fortunately, we didn't have to file.

00:13:35.880 But we were at that point talking to a bankruptcy lawyer, just not knowing what to do.

00:13:41.820 As you know, the banks weren't working with people.

00:13:43.420 I'm very, I'm very, like, I will set that aside.

00:13:45.860 That was such a horrible time.

00:13:46.840 Oh, I remember.

00:13:47.180 Believe me.

00:13:47.460 Yeah, it was horrible.

00:13:48.300 They were going through the whole thing.

00:13:49.520 They wanted all the payments.

00:13:50.300 They wouldn't work with you.

00:13:51.300 Even when you could get back on track, they wouldn't.

00:13:53.120 So anyway, but your question was about our marriage.

00:13:57.040 How did you?

00:13:57.620 Because we're talking about you're married.

00:13:59.720 Like one of the questions I asked my wife when we got married, on our first date, we went

00:14:04.860 to P.F. Chang's.

00:14:05.480 On our second date, I bought her a book called 101 Questions to Ask Before You Get Engaged.

00:14:09.480 Awesome.

00:14:09.860 Second date.

00:14:10.800 And I said, I need you to read this.

00:14:12.020 I already know my answers.

00:14:13.080 I'm kind of clear on what I want.

00:14:14.220 I don't want this thing to just be physical.

00:14:16.520 We've known each other for five and a half years.

00:14:17.960 You've dated other guys.

00:14:18.880 I've dated other girls.

00:14:19.600 We kind of know each other.

00:14:20.800 But I want you to read this.

00:14:21.860 And then one of the questions was, how long can you be away from me and be okay with

00:14:28.160 it?

00:14:28.380 And we actually talked about the days.

00:14:30.660 That's awesome.

00:14:31.300 You're very strategic and well thought out.

00:14:33.200 That's cool.

00:14:33.700 Oh, marriages.

00:14:34.440 My parents got a divorce.

00:14:35.380 So for me, it was kind of like, listen, I'm going to do emotionally.

00:14:38.360 You see somebody like, oh my gosh, we click.

00:14:40.520 I like her so much.

00:14:41.180 She's so attractive.

00:14:41.900 There's a connection there.

00:14:43.000 But then logically, everything comes afterwards and we sometimes don't do the logical side.

00:14:47.460 So when you were getting ready to get married to him, did you know, like, were

00:14:50.960 you mentally prepared to say, he's going to be gone next 10 years half the time?

00:14:54.880 And I'm okay with that.

00:14:56.220 Yeah, I did.

00:14:57.060 Because you know, the thing is, I'm a pretty independent person.

00:14:59.880 And I figured I would handle it.

00:15:02.380 Here's the deal.

00:15:03.000 It's funny because one of the sayings, and you've probably heard it being in the military

00:15:05.600 too, you knew what you were getting into when you got married.

00:15:08.920 That is such crap.

00:15:10.400 Nobody knows.

00:15:11.300 And if you talk to people who aren't in the military and they've been married 50 years,

00:15:14.680 they didn't know what they were getting into either.

00:15:16.260 No doubt about it.

00:15:16.680 Because life is a mystery.

00:15:18.280 It's an unfolding of things that you were surprised by, I think, for almost everyone.

00:15:22.760 So to answer your question, how did we make the 5% that make it?

00:15:27.100 I believe a blessing.

00:15:29.020 I believe that it was maybe divinely orchestrated.

00:15:32.080 But we had people at certain times who gave us the advice.

00:15:34.740 And like you, I was devoted.

00:15:37.380 This is the guy I'm going to be with forever.

00:15:39.040 And I don't want to just coexist with somebody.

00:15:41.000 I want it to be happy.

00:15:42.460 And we had so many good times and laughs that I think once you have that, you're always craving

00:15:46.720 getting that back.

00:15:47.480 You don't want to lose that.

00:15:48.980 So I think that commitment was there.

00:15:51.160 And I also, my faith is really important.

00:15:52.820 I felt like I promised God in addition to Chris.

00:15:55.200 And to me, the promise to God meant a lot.

00:15:56.920 I did not want to screw that up.

00:15:59.740 Even when he was gone, you'd go into church every Sunday.

00:16:01.920 You were staying disciplined in that area.

00:16:03.060 No, it's funny.

00:16:03.740 You know, I've never had to go to church all the time.

00:16:06.120 I've just had this strong connection to my faith and to God, even since I was a kid.

00:16:10.280 And it doesn't always revolve around church.

00:16:11.840 I do like to go to church.

00:16:13.360 And I do like to find a good one.

00:16:14.460 But I've gone years at a time without going to the end.

00:16:16.480 Really?

00:16:16.620 Yeah.

00:16:16.900 And I didn't know how well Chris knew the Bible either.

00:16:19.140 I've never known it as well as he did.

00:16:21.640 You've never known it as good as he did.

00:16:23.460 Never.

00:16:23.780 Unreal.

00:16:24.360 And he knew it backward and forward.

00:16:25.660 And I still am learning.

00:16:26.680 You didn't get like, listen, you have your friends that we're going to go double date Friday

00:16:30.660 night, Saturday night.

00:16:31.720 What are we going to do?

00:16:32.340 What are you going to do?

00:16:32.840 How did you keep yourself mentally sane?

00:16:34.920 Because when I say this, I'm coming from a place of a lot of experience, knowing what

00:16:40.580 it was like in military, being at the 101st, every time a group of guys got deployed.

00:16:44.720 Yeah.

00:16:44.920 Every time they got deployed, you go to the nightclub, you're like, okay, this nightclub

00:16:47.560 is packed because 2,000 men got deployed.

00:16:50.960 How did you mentally keep yourself sane during that time?

00:16:54.380 Okay.

00:16:54.620 So these are great questions.

00:16:55.700 And there's a few things.

00:16:56.920 And we do these at Chris Gow Frog Foundation.

00:16:58.900 Date night out, right?

00:16:59.760 The time when you want a date the least is the time you need it the most.

00:17:04.600 I had somebody tell me about that.

00:17:05.700 And I was like, you know, that's so true.

00:17:07.080 The time when you're arguing with your spouse and you're thinking, I don't want to spend

00:17:09.480 extra time with you because we're mad and we got to figure this out first.

00:17:11.920 And the advice was, no, you need to go on a date, right?

00:17:14.320 Somebody needs to humble themselves and say, let's find a way to make this happen.

00:17:17.460 And that's hard in military life and first responder life to make the time to have the money

00:17:21.260 to get somebody to watch the kids, whatever.

00:17:22.500 But we did that.

00:17:23.280 And that always helped because the first little bit that you're out together, you're having

00:17:26.580 a blast and you're like, I love you.

00:17:27.980 I like you.

00:17:28.360 What are we doing, right?

00:17:29.940 We do revitalization retreats.

00:17:31.980 It's a weekend away because one of my favorite memories with Chris was when my mom gifted me

00:17:36.480 a weekend to go see him when a training didn't go well, right?

00:17:38.920 So he was like, I'm so bummed.

00:17:40.220 We're going to stay in this hotel all weekend.

00:17:41.820 I happen to be with my kids visiting my mom.

00:17:44.100 And so she paid for the ticket.

00:17:45.620 And the plans were already made because he was where he was.

00:17:49.080 So having somebody pay for it and plan it and have it done so you just get there and

00:17:52.460 enjoy each other's company is huge.

00:17:53.700 We do that.

00:17:54.680 Empowered Spouses is a retreat we do.

00:17:57.440 It's 20 women for five days, no cell phones up in the mountains.

00:18:01.240 And we do all kinds of things from skeet shooting to archery to hiking to yoga as breaks.

00:18:07.040 But then the rest of the time, it's hardcore academic work.

00:18:09.800 And we're diving in deep to emotions, tools to use in your marriage because service marriages

00:18:13.640 are different, right?

00:18:14.600 And this is a nonprofit?

00:18:15.880 Is this a nonprofit?

00:18:16.300 Nonprofit, yeah.

00:18:17.080 Specific to military veterans or?

00:18:18.820 Active duty veteran and first responders.

00:18:20.960 All these service marriages are at high risk of divorce.

00:18:23.300 What is the name of that organization?

00:18:24.760 Chris Kyle Frog Foundation.

00:18:26.360 Frogs because frogmen, Navy SEALs, and you had a frog tattoo on each other.

00:18:28.880 Yeah, yeah, of course.

00:18:29.860 So the marriage is really important.

00:18:31.780 It is really hard.

00:18:32.600 And what you were talking about, there are all kinds of dynamics.

00:18:35.640 Like how do you have faith, right?

00:18:37.360 So if Chris is out on a training mission with a bunch of young guys with a lot of testosterone,

00:18:42.100 a lot of fun, a lot of drinking, some married, some not, and it's surprising how many women

00:18:46.700 want to just have sex with a guy because he's a SEAL, right?

00:18:49.680 Like the uniform's hot anyway, and then they find out you're a SEAL.

00:18:52.000 And how do you deal with that and know that there's infidelity going on and trust that

00:18:55.540 your husband isn't one of those, right?

00:18:57.080 And how do you trust that when you call him, you can't always get him?

00:19:00.600 Maybe it's because they're in a remote area training.

00:19:02.760 Maybe it's because they're at the club, right?

00:19:04.200 I mean, that's a different dynamic.

00:19:05.980 It's very, very hard to be the person at home.

00:19:07.560 How do you control the imagination to not let loose?

00:19:09.160 Because that's what happens.

00:19:10.020 You're laying in the bed by yourself and your imagination is just going to a place.

00:19:13.240 He's in this place.

00:19:13.980 What if that's taking place and he's got one friend I'm worried about because that friend

00:19:16.580 is single?

00:19:17.080 You know, you're thinking all that stuff.

00:19:17.980 Right, of course.

00:19:18.420 How are you controlling your imagination?

00:19:20.240 My journey with Chris was really, I think, a journey of turning fear into faith.

00:19:24.400 And it started with some of those issues as well, not just war, right?

00:19:28.620 But how do you trust this marriage?

00:19:30.300 There's a few things.

00:19:31.340 One is, you know, if you know your spouse inside and out, you know if it's happening.

00:19:36.420 You do.

00:19:37.020 You can question it.

00:19:37.940 You can try to look around.

00:19:39.460 You know there's something different with them, right?

00:19:41.800 And these guys are also trained to lie in case they got captured.

00:19:44.300 I mean, there's a lot of things that you go as a wife, oh my gosh, right?

00:19:47.380 And Chris would tell me, yeah, we're trained to do that.

00:19:49.540 But if you really know somebody, they have a tell that they're not aware that they have.

00:19:55.020 And you'll pick up on it, right?

00:19:56.940 I think you also know when your marriage is really solid.

00:19:59.120 And Chris just wasn't the type of guy to do that stuff.

00:20:00.840 He just wasn't.

00:20:02.140 So you didn't go there a lot?

00:20:03.500 No, I didn't.

00:20:04.120 But, you know, we did have a hard time though, right?

00:20:05.880 Like there was a time where things were not good.

00:20:09.100 And my method was I thought if I pull away, he'll come closer to me.

00:20:12.860 And when I pulled away, he thought she's done with me.

00:20:14.800 And he went this way, right?

00:20:15.780 He would go away?

00:20:17.640 No, I mean, emotionally.

00:20:19.460 I thought if I pulled back in the relationship a little bit, instead of keep trying to push and we should be closer, we should be closer, I thought fine, I'll pull back, he'll come forward, right?

00:20:27.120 Did he?

00:20:27.600 No.

00:20:28.120 He thought if you're pulling out, you must be done with this marriage.

00:20:30.960 So what happened in that moment?

00:20:32.900 Well, it was over time.

00:20:34.780 It was over time.

00:20:35.480 And there was a perfect storm of things that happened.

00:20:37.100 And, you know, it just, it was the hardest time.

00:20:41.960 And we detailed a little bit in the book, American Sniper.

00:20:43.900 But that was the worst time.

00:20:46.080 And I realized I have some responsibility in that.

00:20:48.540 And that's why at the Frog Foundation, we are pulling these couples together because it's two people.

00:20:53.460 It's never just one, right?

00:20:54.820 And I had some responsibility to learn about this life and what he needed.

00:20:59.340 I also, I grew up a strong, independent woman, right?

00:21:01.440 And that's what a lot of service members, they marry a strong spouse.

00:21:04.400 Because your dad is a lieutenant colonel.

00:21:05.560 Right, but then you have two alphas that are trying to be one, right?

00:21:09.820 Two alphas, meaning you and Chris.

00:21:11.260 Right, because usually service people marry strong people, right?

00:21:13.740 Because they know they're going to be gone.

00:21:14.760 No doubt.

00:21:15.340 And so now you have two type A's, right, in one house.

00:21:18.120 And so the other part of my journey was learning that, and this isn't too popular with a lot of people these days,

00:21:23.900 but I do believe that in the marriage, the man should take the lead, right?

00:21:27.300 And doing that, I don't lose any power.

00:21:29.440 I gain a ton of power.

00:21:30.860 And that's a misconception, I think, in society that, you know, we're fighting for power everywhere.

00:21:35.620 And the truth is you can lead the world outside of your marriage.

00:21:39.240 Do it, right?

00:21:40.460 But when you come back, there's one thing that a man needs always.

00:21:43.060 It's respect.

00:21:44.000 And you can say he shouldn't, he should.

00:21:45.580 I don't care.

00:21:46.320 It's how he's made, period.

00:21:47.380 I've never met a man that doesn't need it.

00:21:49.080 And my son taught me a lot about being a man, right?

00:21:51.420 Because there are things that are innate, that nobody's teaching him, that are just innate to being a man, right?

00:21:56.300 Wow, you're so touched.

00:21:56.520 Interesting.

00:21:56.840 Yes.

00:21:57.340 So it's so cool.

00:21:58.500 And women, we need to be cherished.

00:22:00.140 And that feels a lot like respect, right?

00:22:02.160 If you're giving the man respect and you're saying, I married you because I respect you,

00:22:05.420 it's not submitting like, oh, I can't make a decision.

00:22:07.820 It's saying, you know, somebody's got to lead, you lead.

00:22:10.740 And you know what happens?

00:22:11.700 The guy usually says, hey, babe, what do you think about this, right?

00:22:14.040 Because when it's not threatened, you're much more desirable to be a partner.

00:22:18.560 No doubt, collaborative, yeah.

00:22:18.760 Yeah, very, very true when you're saying that.

00:22:22.120 So, you know, the other part would be, how did you handle it yourself?

00:22:26.000 You're an attractive woman yourself.

00:22:27.720 Your husband's away.

00:22:28.800 There's guys out there that are looking at us saying, hey, there's an opportunity here.

00:22:31.700 How did you handle when guys flirted with you when he was away?

00:22:34.600 You know, I'm kind of glad you brought that up because I know there's this thing about women being harassed or sexually harassed or in the workforce or whatever.

00:22:41.340 Maybe I just was raised really strong, but I've never not been able to handle my business, ever.

00:22:45.540 And I'm not insulting anybody that has had a problem because I know there are people that it's been horrible for them and emotional.

00:22:51.040 But I know.

00:22:52.400 I'm smart.

00:22:53.180 I know if a man's coming on to me.

00:22:54.300 I know if he's pushing the line.

00:22:55.340 And I know how to jokingly and not offensively call it out, right?

00:22:58.920 And I've been very direct with people before, right?

00:23:01.180 Well, if you're as direct as you were in that movie, I mean, you know, and the feeling I'm getting from you.

00:23:05.420 But, you know, say somebody, say a woman wasn't raised in an environment where they know how to do it or how not to do it.

00:23:10.520 What is your coaching?

00:23:11.920 I'm a woman.

00:23:12.720 I'm married.

00:23:13.220 My husband is in Afghanistan.

00:23:15.520 He's deployed.

00:23:16.160 And I'm kind of like, well, Taya, I'm kind of struggling with this, you know, because I'm like single.

00:23:20.220 I have some needs.

00:23:20.860 How do I?

00:23:21.320 What was your approach?

00:23:22.480 What was your system?

00:23:23.380 Perfect.

00:23:23.520 I'll give you a graceful example of a way I think it worked perfectly.

00:23:27.580 Married guy, right, in a work environment, and he was at a position of power, and he was pressuring me, flirting, whatever.

00:23:37.340 I could handle it, whatever.

00:23:38.900 And then when he came right out and said it, I said, you know what?

00:23:43.840 My idea is you give somebody the opportunity to save face, right?

00:23:47.520 You're not out to destroy.

00:23:49.500 So I said, you know what?

00:23:50.440 I believe that you love your wife, and I know that she loves you, and I think you just made an error in judgment here,

00:23:55.220 and I'm going to look past it, and we're going to move on.

00:23:57.660 Because I don't really think that's who you are.

00:23:59.720 So let's move forward, right?

00:24:02.180 Okay, so that's one if he's married.

00:24:03.480 What if he's single?

00:24:04.940 I think if he's single, and if you're not interested, right, and you're uncomfortable or whatever, you could say, you know what?

00:24:11.200 You're a great guy.

00:24:11.780 We need to find somebody for you, right?

00:24:13.760 We need to find a way for you to get somebody that matches your personality.

00:24:17.740 Because it's a way to say, I'm not interested, but you're giving them an opportunity to save face, too.

00:24:23.500 And I don't think you need to be defensive or on the hunt, right?

00:24:28.540 Now, if it's getting to the point where somebody's, you know, touching you and stuff like that, then you've got to draw the line.

00:24:33.600 If you've got to call the cops, you've got to call the cops.

00:24:35.140 If you've got to say, this is inappropriate, it's inappropriate.

00:24:38.260 But you can do it with a smile on your face and still look them in the eye the next day.

00:24:41.260 I think that says a lot about the character.

00:24:43.140 It's great.

00:24:43.840 But I think a lot of that is not being talked about.

00:24:45.800 I'm being, and I've been on both sides.

00:24:48.400 I've been, we partied heavy, and we were there, and we would see all of it.

00:24:52.420 We would see the married side, the single side, all this.

00:24:55.180 I have my own opinions about marriage while you're in Hollywood, sports, music, or military.

00:24:59.500 Absolutely.

00:24:59.940 I have a certain opinion about those four things.

00:25:01.800 What is your opinion about getting married in your 20s while you're in the military and you are getting deployed?

00:25:08.540 Advice both to men, you were married to an A-type that went straight to the top, sniper, 160 confirmed.

00:25:14.920 Some call him the greatest of all time as a sniper.

00:25:16.860 He gives credit to a different guy, Hatchcock.

00:25:20.480 Carlos Hatchcock, yes.

00:25:21.280 Yeah, I mean, he gives credit to the other guy, but a lot of people said he was the one with the 160 confirms.

00:25:25.700 So this is not a regular, if he plays another sport, he's one of the best to play the game.

00:25:29.760 Right.

00:25:30.200 And you're an A-type.

00:25:31.340 What advice are you giving to a 23-year-old that's saying, but, hey, I'm kind of alone.

00:25:36.440 I feel like I've got to love somebody, and this girl I'm seeing, you know, I'm thinking

00:25:39.940 about pulling the trigger and saying yes to her.

00:25:42.080 The girl's saying, I'm thinking about getting married, but he gets deployed a lot.

00:25:44.500 What advice would you give?

00:25:46.000 Well, I think, first of all, you have to understand that it's going to be a mystery and it's going

00:25:50.140 to unfold.

00:25:51.300 You just don't know if it's combat deployments.

00:25:53.220 You don't know if they're going to get injured, right?

00:25:54.640 There's so many variables.

00:25:57.300 So I think you have to know that at the end of the day, this is the person that you really

00:26:01.420 are committing to for real, right?

00:26:02.760 Like, those vows are no joke.

00:26:05.260 If his legs were amputated, would you still love him?

00:26:07.900 Would you still stand by him?

00:26:09.420 You know, would you brush his teeth?

00:26:11.040 Would you do the things that you need to do that way?

00:26:12.840 I think that's a good indicator of if yes, then that's a good, solid, soulful love, not

00:26:17.180 just a physical love.

00:26:18.540 I think if you have faith and you have commitment and you have some idea of how these marriages

00:26:22.360 work, it's really helpful.

00:26:24.360 One of the things that you have to do is know you're not going to have the time that other

00:26:27.480 people have and you're not going to have the money that they have.

00:26:29.340 So the conventional advice in the civilian world is not going to work for your service

00:26:33.060 marriage.

00:26:33.720 It's another reason our foundation exists.

00:26:35.860 It's not rocket science.

00:26:36.980 They're just different tools.

00:26:38.020 Civilian counselors will not be able to help you.

00:26:41.540 So I think if you can find a mentor of somebody who...

00:26:43.780 Powerful.

00:26:44.420 Yeah.

00:26:44.700 If you can find a mentor of somebody who made their military marriage work and ask them

00:26:48.280 some questions, that'd be ideal.

00:26:49.760 Oh my gosh.

00:26:50.480 You gave such great counsel.

00:26:51.720 I'm going to transition that into business because our audience is entrepreneurs.

00:26:55.580 You know, a lot of times when you get married to somebody who may be he or she, say you are

00:27:02.600 the woman, you're the entrepreneur, he's not.

00:27:04.460 Or you're the man, you're the entrepreneur, she's not.

00:27:07.840 And you date somebody and you're getting ready to get married.

00:27:11.240 And she was raised in an environment where the father came home every night at five o'clock

00:27:14.600 and everybody had that whole regular lifestyle and say, but this is how I saw it.

00:27:18.540 I saw my mom and dad have a dinner every night at five o'clock, six o'clock.

00:27:21.040 How come you're not going to be doing that?

00:27:22.460 Yeah.

00:27:23.380 I think it's important.

00:27:24.540 My wife and I were dating and I asked her, I said, who are you talking to?

00:27:30.160 Like, if let's just say you want to have a follow-on-out, who are you going to call?

00:27:32.300 Who are the five people going to call?

00:27:33.760 And eventually it got to a point where we went and saw a counselor before getting married.

00:27:37.580 And I said, I want us to talk to a counselor on seeing what feedback they're going to give us

00:27:41.160 before we get married.

00:27:41.820 Every girlfriend I dated, we saw a therapist or a counselor because I know we need help,

00:27:45.440 so I want feedback, so we're both on the same page.

00:27:48.200 And one of the counselors said, in order for a marriage to work, you both have to have dinner

00:27:53.000 every night at six o'clock because that's the key to successful marriage.

00:27:56.180 I said, we're never going to see you again.

00:27:57.820 I got up and I walked out.

00:27:59.040 I said, babe, I like the guy.

00:28:00.200 I said, it's not that I like the guy.

00:28:01.680 He's not living my life.

00:28:02.720 That's right.

00:28:03.140 And I'm not him.

00:28:03.820 That's right.

00:28:04.160 So what you're saying is very important because sometimes we could take counsel from somebody

00:28:08.020 that may give good counsel for a certain lifestyle, but not the lifestyle you're choosing to live.

00:28:13.340 The lifestyle you're choosing to live is not an easy one.

00:28:16.520 Right.

00:28:16.980 So interesting what you're saying.

00:28:18.580 Can I touch on that for a second, though?

00:28:20.100 Because I think that, you know, my friend who was so brilliant about this, too, if you give a guy the opportunity to lead, right?

00:28:29.340 So in your situation, if you know your wife is counting on you to lead and that the responsibility of the family unit is on you, the wellness of it, right?

00:28:38.340 Are you going to treat that a little differently than if your wife is saying, you need to be home at six o'clock and we need to have a family dinner, right?

00:28:45.720 But giving you the responsibility all of a sudden puts this as much more valuable.

00:28:50.680 It's not just your job that you're in charge of.

00:28:52.040 You're also in charge of the wellness of your family, right?

00:28:54.780 And I think that that's part of that misconception thing for people.

00:28:58.280 They think that they're losing power.

00:28:59.420 They're not.

00:29:00.000 Like, they're gaining everything.

00:29:01.760 And you're right.

00:29:03.220 You do need somebody to be a friend to your marriage.

00:29:05.820 So that woman that said when you want to date the least, you need it the most, she's a pediatrician.

00:29:09.880 Her husband is a SWAT officer.

00:29:11.520 And she said to me one time, she said, Tay, I want you to know this about me.

00:29:15.080 I am your friend, but I'm a friend of your marriage first because I think that's the best way to be your friend, right?

00:29:20.700 And I had to think about that.

00:29:21.760 And what she's saying is if you're just my friend, Patrick, and I call you and you'd be like, man, don't put up with that crap from him, da, da, da, da, right?

00:29:28.020 But if you're a friend of my marriage first, you are a better friend to me because what you'll say is, okay, let's look at this.

00:29:33.200 Let's dissect it.

00:29:33.900 Where is he coming from?

00:29:34.760 Do you have an understanding of his situation, right?

00:29:37.220 So I think you need to have people who are friends of your marriage.

00:29:40.300 I will never win an argument about my dad and I.

00:29:43.740 If I tell him anything about my wife I'm upset with, I will never win.

00:29:46.620 Right.

00:29:46.980 It's always your fault, Pat.

00:29:49.160 You know, you got to go figure it out.

00:29:50.640 Do you look at who you have there, et cetera, et cetera.

00:29:52.660 And that's on her side, which eventually, anyways, helps the marriage out.

00:29:56.940 So, you know, there's a scene in a movie which was very interesting to me where you're laying next to each other.

00:30:02.760 And at least that's the movie where you're laying next to each other and you're asking him, tell me why you're doing this.

00:30:07.860 And he says, I'm doing it for you.

00:30:09.660 And you're like, no, you're not doing it for me.

00:30:10.940 Why are you doing this?

00:30:12.540 Your family is here.

00:30:13.920 Your children have no father.

00:30:15.540 You'll have to serve my cup.

00:30:16.860 You don't know when to quit.

00:30:20.280 You did your part.

00:30:21.640 You sacrificed enough.

00:30:22.800 You let somebody else go.

00:30:24.160 Let somebody else go?

00:30:25.760 Yeah.

00:30:26.220 Yeah, well, you find a way.

00:30:29.280 I'm almost certain that probably happened at one point.

00:30:31.840 Yeah, for sure.

00:30:32.520 How did it feel knowing, and if you disagree with the statement I'm about to make, please do so.

00:30:38.380 Oh, you know I will, right?

00:30:39.240 No, that's why I like this conversation because I really want to have some insight on this.

00:30:43.820 I was in the military.

00:30:44.440 I saw it.

00:30:44.880 I think there's a lot of people that do struggle with this.

00:30:47.080 There's a part of being a Navy SEAL.

00:30:49.380 I mean, Navy SEAL is Navy SEAL.

00:30:51.220 It's not just Army, Marines.

00:30:53.480 It's Navy SEAL.

00:30:54.860 How does it feel knowing that the country comes before you?

00:31:01.620 You know, knowing his responsibilities and duties come first before the family does.

00:31:07.240 At least that's what the commitment is.

00:31:09.240 Right.

00:31:09.740 How did that feel, and did you ever feel that way, and if you did, were you okay with it?

00:31:13.680 Right.

00:31:14.320 No, that was part of my journey in growing into this because when Chris would always say,

00:31:19.320 he would never say one was more important than the other.

00:31:21.200 He would just say, you know, I feel like I need to do this.

00:31:23.760 This is my purpose, too, but you're equally important.

00:31:26.300 And I didn't understand that until I was more in his position after he died where my kids are equally as important,

00:31:32.440 but I also have this other thing that I'm trying to do, too, right?

00:31:34.960 And I had to work through that and figure that out,

00:31:37.060 and I realized how difficult that can be.

00:31:40.280 I also think in growing and learning about just the core of men, purpose is important for everyone.

00:31:46.260 It was really important to me, too.

00:31:47.920 For some reason, as a woman, I think we're very complex creatures,

00:31:51.920 and so we can have purpose here and purpose there, and we can, you know, sometimes it's a burden to be that complex, you know,

00:31:58.300 but I think there's a simplicity to men that is beautiful and necessary in this world,

00:32:03.040 and some of that simplicity, that purpose is a necessity.

00:32:06.920 A man is not going to be a healthy man not having a strong sense of purpose outside of just being a dad and a husband, right?

00:32:13.120 And so I think we have to respect that and say it's not a choice he's making.

00:32:16.840 It's part of his makeup, right?

00:32:18.160 And that's a good thing, not a bad thing.

00:32:20.600 So I learned to understand it a little bit more.

00:32:23.480 I think toward the end when he got out, we don't talk about it a lot.

00:32:26.860 There are other options for him to do that wouldn't have been combat, but combat was what his purpose was,

00:32:32.520 and that's they overused him, and they know that.

00:32:34.720 They broke every rule and kept sending him back, you know, need to the Navy's Trump everything.

00:32:38.440 And so there were parts of him that were just, you know, he blew out both knees physically, mentally, emotionally.

00:32:45.100 They were killing him because they didn't let him be human for just a minute.

00:32:49.040 Just take a breath.

00:32:49.860 Give him a year to just do a shore duty.

00:32:51.860 And I've gotten calls from some of the higher-ups apologizing, you know, afterwards saying I'm really sorry.

00:32:57.500 How did you handle that call?

00:32:58.980 You know, I try to give grace because I understand regret,

00:33:01.740 and I understand that you did the best you could at the time with the information you had, right?

00:33:05.420 And I'm glad that you see it now because that means you can do it differently for someone else, right?

00:33:09.820 And honestly, I'm really, in a way, look, it ended up being a blessing because he knew it, I knew it,

00:33:15.380 and so he made the choice, right?

00:33:16.680 And in doing that for his short life, he got to be a dad, and he got to be there all the time.

00:33:23.540 And, I mean, he was working, but you know what I'm saying, every night type of thing.

00:33:26.920 And it was, I heard him say, and I'm so glad I did, to guys that were thinking about getting out,

00:33:31.720 he would say, I'm not ever going to be one that says you should get out of the military,

00:33:34.840 but if you're asking me because you want to get out,

00:33:37.200 I'm telling you I have more joy in my family than I ever had in the military.

00:33:40.960 You can do it 30 years in the military. I'm not trying to tell guys to get out.

00:33:44.560 All I'm trying to do is say, hey, look, take care of your family,

00:33:47.400 because once you're out of the military, your time will end sooner or later,

00:33:51.160 and then what are you going to have?

00:33:53.000 You better make sure your life is set up to have your family.

00:33:55.820 And I wouldn't have believed that necessarily when I was in, right?

00:33:58.720 Because you have that sense of purpose, and it's life and death, and it's adrenaline.

00:34:01.900 Yes, I overheard him on the phone saying it.

00:34:03.960 He would tell me he wanted to live, you know, before when he was in the military,

00:34:08.260 if you die in a blaze of glory, you know, okay, great, no problem.

00:34:11.500 Once he got out, he was like, man, I want to live to be an old man.

00:34:13.720 Wow.

00:34:13.980 You know?

00:34:14.540 Yeah, and I saw that when he was being interviewed, I think, on Time Magazine,

00:34:17.460 and the lady was asking 10 questions from him.

00:34:20.480 And one of the questions was, you know, how does it feel knowing you're the best sniper of all time,

00:34:29.760 and what if for the rest of your life you don't do anything as good as this?

00:34:32.960 I'm a better husband and father than I was a killer.

00:34:36.400 I'm pretty comfortable with not having to kill anyone.

00:34:39.160 So he defended that.

00:34:40.280 Yeah, and he was amazing.

00:34:41.940 Yeah, and then he said, what I do currently right now, I do it very good,

00:34:45.820 whatever his job was at the time.

00:34:47.240 And he says, look, as long as you allow me to go, you know, doing all this stuff,

00:34:50.240 if you stop me from doing deer hunting, I'm going to be miserable.

00:34:52.520 But aside from that, I'm a pretty, I feel like I can do a lot of things good.

00:34:55.360 So you can sense the pride he had on being a husband and a father.

00:34:59.400 There was a lot of pride behind that.

00:35:00.960 And some of the clips you posted with, you know, him reading,

00:35:04.520 he says, I'm going to read two books to you when I'm gone.

00:35:06.460 You know, those things are very emotional.

00:35:07.880 I'm sure the kids are going to appreciate that a lot.

00:35:10.240 Read two more and then you can go to bed.

00:35:13.880 It's just a lighter.

00:35:17.240 When I'm gone, you can look at the tape.

00:35:23.800 My father was telling me, he surprised my sister,

00:35:29.040 a video he found of her running around in the park when she was two.

00:35:33.040 And my sister's older and he was showing this video.

00:35:35.500 I'm like, wow, you know, back in the days, you know, camera didn't exist.

00:35:38.200 Yeah.

00:35:38.580 Forty-some years ago.

00:35:39.420 I said, Dad, do you have videos of me?

00:35:40.980 Like I'm waiting, show me some videos of me.

00:35:43.580 He says, no, I don't have any videos of me.

00:35:45.440 I said, I'm younger.

00:35:46.640 He said, how do you not have videos?

00:35:47.640 He says, I just didn't take videos of me.

00:35:49.880 I took videos of my girl, you know, my baby girl.

00:35:51.940 But obviously I understand.

00:35:53.200 I have a girl now.

00:35:53.760 There's a big difference to love you have for your daughter than a son.

00:35:56.160 It's a different kind of love.

00:35:57.100 Plus you were the second kid, right?

00:35:58.400 I was the second kid.

00:35:59.180 It is a little bit harder to keep up when you got two.

00:36:01.000 You know, they get less pictures of them.

00:36:02.520 So much today because I have so many more videos on my first one than the other two

00:36:07.980 because the first one was like, you know, pride and joy.

00:36:10.200 It's your first kid.

00:36:10.680 You want to experience the whole thing.

00:36:11.960 I want to touch on one thing you said when Chris said he was a much better husband and father.

00:36:15.900 That is true, but I want people to know that there is a transition period that I was not prepared for.

00:36:21.200 So getting out of the military, and that's one of the reasons with the Frog Foundation we deal with veterans too.

00:36:26.000 You think when he's on leave, we're having such a good time that when he gets out, it's like leave all the time.

00:36:30.900 It's going to be awesome.

00:36:31.720 And it really wasn't.

00:36:32.820 It was really hard for the first year.

00:36:34.600 He really struggled getting out.

00:36:36.520 He really struggled with having a sense of purpose change.

00:36:39.100 He struggled with where he was going to find his place.

00:36:41.920 And dealing with all the things that he experienced, I guess, probably started to flood back in.

00:36:45.700 And he didn't have regrets about it, but I just think it's a lot to process.

00:36:49.140 So I would encourage people who are considering that to be prepared that it is not an overnight thing.

00:36:54.860 And he got to that point, I think, very quickly, all things considered.

00:36:58.560 But it wasn't overnight.

00:36:59.660 It was really rough when he got out.

00:37:01.740 Was it true, the fact that he would wake up in the middle of the night, if he didn't say his name, he would punch, he would swing?

00:37:06.320 He did that before the military, though.

00:37:08.260 He was just always like a jumpy type dude.

00:37:10.280 Well, then that makes sense because he said, there's two things I said I'm going to do in life.

00:37:13.000 One, I want to be a cowboy.

00:37:13.840 Two, I want to be a soldier.

00:37:14.740 It was something he said since he was a kid.

00:37:16.480 So that kind of makes sense because there's a level of congruency there.

00:37:19.060 But it did get a little, I mean, it probably got a little more aggressive.

00:37:21.300 It did get a little more aggressive.

00:37:22.700 Probably.

00:37:22.980 It was never a problem for me until after he was in the military, right?

00:37:27.400 But if it was a stranger, like if he fell asleep on a plane or somebody, he'd come up swinging.

00:37:31.120 Did you see the movie Hurt Locker?

00:37:33.180 I didn't.

00:37:34.040 I should have, but I didn't.

00:37:35.240 I think there will be a similarity there because he was fiending going back.

00:37:42.240 It's almost like this is, I have to do this.

00:37:44.840 You can't keep me out here.

00:37:46.780 I got to go back and do it again.

00:37:48.980 Saying 59 are dead.

00:37:52.980 You know they need more bomb techs.

00:38:00.580 Want to chop those up for me?

00:38:03.080 Did Chris ever have that element to him or no?

00:38:05.940 Well, not after, I mean, after he got out, I don't think that was as much a part of it because, like I said, they really burned him down.

00:38:11.300 But I do think something you said just sparked this in me.

00:38:14.760 They did a test, like a simulated thing on him because they were trying to study in the military the effects of war and that kind of thing.

00:38:21.300 And so it was a simulation where he had a gun and they put all the sounds of the war and there was people studying him, right?

00:38:26.600 And so, and as soon as the gunfight started, his blood pressure went down, right?

00:38:32.340 And so he was in his calm place and whatever.

00:38:34.400 And the only time it spiked was when there was another American or ally soldier that was screaming, I don't want to die.

00:38:41.380 I don't want to die.

00:38:42.040 I'm hit, right?

00:38:42.840 And that's when all of a sudden everything started to jumble in Chris.

00:38:46.540 And that's so true to his personality.

00:38:48.520 It was the guys that he couldn't save, right?

00:38:50.360 Because he never saw his job as taking lives.

00:38:52.140 He saw it as saving lives.

00:38:53.820 And if you didn't take this life, then these lives, and that was from his very first kill, which was in the movie too, right?

00:38:59.420 If he didn't take that shot, five or six people die, right?

00:39:02.500 And so it's just, I think that also says what his trauma was.

00:39:07.480 His trauma wasn't for the job that he did.

00:39:09.560 He was able to make that right in his head.

00:39:11.320 It was the people that you can't save.

00:39:14.540 Yeah, he talked about that on many, many different interviews.

00:39:16.980 You know, when I was in those situations, the only thing I'm thinking of is trying to stop them from the act of violence that they were trying to commit on my guys, the allies, or the innocent civilians in those cities.

00:39:28.760 They're leaving behind their families, and their families go through hard, stressful times without their spouses being there.

00:39:34.980 I would love to be known for the number of people I saved.

00:39:37.340 I'm committed to making sure every service member that was over there, whether American or allied, came home.

00:39:45.240 It's been over six years, right?

00:39:47.100 Have you already moved on and started dating?

00:39:50.480 Because I know it's a very common question everybody asks you.

00:39:52.340 Robin asks you.

00:39:53.000 Everybody's asking you, are you dating?

00:39:54.400 Have you started feeling a little bit more comfortable by getting into the dating scene or no?

00:39:57.880 No, and you know what's interesting about that?

00:40:00.000 I've done some deep dives into some therapy.

00:40:03.480 There was a type of therapy called accelerated resolution therapy.

00:40:07.800 It uses your eye movements and your brain connections and develops pathways.

00:40:12.260 And at one of the times I was telling her, I can't think about it without wanting to throw up or cry.

00:40:17.220 And so, yeah.

00:40:17.900 And I'm like, obviously I have an issue that's buried there because it's probably six years has gone by.

00:40:22.040 I should probably be able to think about it without that reaction, right?

00:40:24.680 And so she went through it with me, and even now it kind of makes me want to cry.

00:40:29.660 But she did go through it with me, and she said, you just need to picture Chris and get him with you and write a new contract with him.

00:40:38.040 And I couldn't do it.

00:40:39.280 I mean, I really, and I couldn't do it, right?

00:40:42.400 And she said, you need to write a new contract.

00:40:43.780 How does he come with you for the rest of your life but in a way that is different, right?

00:40:48.140 And I, you know, I had the ugly cry.

00:40:50.280 I got pain everywhere, and I was like, I can't do it.

00:40:52.120 And that's hard for me because I like to just toughen up and muscle through and do what I need to do, especially to get better.

00:40:57.940 I want to get better.

00:40:59.360 And so she said, okay, then you just got to sit down with yourself, and then you talk to you and make a new contract, right?

00:41:08.660 So what you're doing is you're connecting your left and right brain when you do that, and you're following a hand movement so that your eyes access the different parts of your brain.

00:41:15.440 I realized more the issues, and I realized the excuses, and I kind of was able to make some peace to say maybe the red flags or the excuses I'm putting up are not legitimate.

00:41:29.160 I mean, I could go with kids.

00:41:30.160 I could go with time.

00:41:30.960 I could go with all these reasons why it would just never work, and I don't want to.

00:41:34.580 But at the end of the day, I did all that, and I still have a hard time with the idea.

00:41:38.220 So I've been thinking even this week, it's funny you bring it up, I've been thinking even this week that maybe I need to go see somebody again.

00:41:45.840 I mean, I'm not dying to have somebody.

00:41:47.760 That's fine.

00:41:48.460 You're not.

00:41:49.000 No, I'm not at all.

00:41:50.200 I have a really happy life.

00:41:51.240 So you're fulfilled.

00:41:52.140 You're not.

00:41:52.640 So fulfilled.

00:41:53.720 But I also think that if you see a problem in you, the right thing to do is to find a way to get it out.

00:42:00.140 And I don't think it's normal that I feel like crying to think about that or that love, the idea of love makes me cry.

00:42:05.200 For me, for other people, that's my foundation work.

00:42:07.760 I love it.

00:42:08.440 I want to keep people married.

00:42:10.980 And I could guess that it's the pain of loss.

00:42:15.640 I guess that's making me want to cry.

00:42:16.940 That's probably a big one.

00:42:18.240 Because I don't love in halves.

00:42:19.920 You know, I love in wholes.

00:42:20.920 If I love you, I love you with all of me.

00:42:22.320 And that's the same for my friends, my kids.

00:42:24.760 And so I don't know that that was hard to survive that, you know.

00:42:28.220 I bet.

00:42:29.200 I saw a speech you gave to a classroom where you said, did your son tell you, Mom, you don't need anybody because I love you?

00:42:37.040 Yes.

00:42:37.760 What a powerful thing.

00:42:39.480 It was.

00:42:40.040 And you know what?

00:42:40.660 Two months ago, maybe, he sat in front of me.

00:42:43.080 He said, Mom, I just wanted you to know that if you found somebody you were happy with, I'd be happy for you.

00:42:48.400 Wow.

00:42:48.840 How old was he when he said that?

00:42:50.000 He's 14.

00:42:50.580 And I asked him, I said, was that hard for you to say?

00:42:56.240 And he said, a little bit.

00:42:57.240 And I said, out of loyalty to your dad or just the idea of it?

00:43:00.580 And he said, both.

00:43:01.940 You know, I said, I get it.

00:43:03.420 And then he was fine.

00:43:04.760 And I started crying and crying.

00:43:06.340 And I was like, I just can't picture it.

00:43:07.580 I just don't see it.

00:43:08.480 But thank you.

00:43:09.240 It means a lot to me that you said that.

00:43:10.680 And so, you know, I don't know.

00:43:13.180 I know I got work to do, obviously.

00:43:14.560 Something's broken in there still.

00:43:16.180 You know, I'll give you my testimony real quick for you to process it any way you want.

00:43:20.520 When my parents got a divorce, I did not want either one of them to remarry at all.

00:43:26.180 Let me tell you, when I tell you at all, I mean at all.

00:43:28.200 Yeah.

00:43:28.940 And I was overprotective of my mother.

00:43:31.980 I mean, I was overprotective about everybody.

00:43:33.660 Yeah.

00:43:34.160 Because when they got a divorce, I was at Germany at a refugee camp.

00:43:39.100 Divorce was probably filed when I was 11.

00:43:41.540 And then, you know, in the Middle Eastern culture, when a wife goes through a divorce, it's a mess.

00:43:44.940 So she didn't want to go through it to remarry.

00:43:48.040 And I would say don't.

00:43:50.560 But looking back, oh, my gosh.

00:43:53.660 You know, as a son now of both my parents, I would have loved to have seen them both remarry.

00:44:01.440 Right.

00:44:02.040 For many reasons.

00:44:04.140 One is, number one would be emotionally.

00:44:06.680 Right.

00:44:07.140 To have somebody to have a conversation with.

00:44:08.980 We were just having a conversation before, and I was talking to my friends.

00:44:11.460 I was saying, hey, so let me ask you, because I was processing your story and his story.

00:44:15.160 I said, marriage.

00:44:18.280 I asked my friends who were divorced and some that were married and some that were single.

00:44:21.340 I said, do you miss being married?

00:44:23.060 Yes.

00:44:23.540 Tell me why.

00:44:24.560 What do you miss?

00:44:25.820 I miss having, sharing a life with somebody was a key word.

00:44:30.360 And this is coming from an alpha male.

00:44:32.420 Right.

00:44:32.600 I miss sharing my life with somebody.

00:44:35.320 Don't get me wrong.

00:44:35.980 I'm career driven.

00:44:36.680 I want to do all this stuff.

00:44:37.360 But I miss sharing my life with somebody.

00:44:38.960 Yep.

00:44:39.660 That's a big deal.

00:44:40.880 I know.

00:44:41.680 Because, I mean, even when Chris was deployed, I had those moments where I said, the problem

00:44:45.780 is they're my memories, not our memories.

00:44:47.700 Right.

00:44:48.480 And I still struggle with that.

00:44:49.840 But I tend to just have really good girlfriends.

00:44:51.920 And I just, I tell them, I share the memories just so that somebody's there to share them.

00:44:55.500 And the older my kids get, you know, we share them.

00:44:57.140 You know, I think a part of it has to be a level of admiration from whoever you date for Chris.

00:45:06.080 You know, this is a weird example.

00:45:08.680 But I look at The Rock.

00:45:10.380 Okay.

00:45:10.560 The Rock, his ex-wife, his name is Danny.

00:45:14.220 Danny Garcia.

00:45:15.760 And Danny Garcia is his agent and manager today.

00:45:19.800 Oh.

00:45:20.220 And the guy he used to train with is her husband now.

00:45:25.120 And they still train together.

00:45:26.660 And they have a phenomenal relationship together.

00:45:29.780 Nothing weird.

00:45:30.520 It's just a phenomenal relationship.

00:45:31.980 All his business dealings all go through her.

00:45:35.540 So it works out because the husband has respect for the old ex-husband.

00:45:40.020 They still have kids, family.

00:45:41.600 I think it needs to be a situation like that because you didn't just marry a regular guy.

00:45:45.580 You married a high achiever, a peak performer, an A-type.

00:45:50.580 Isn't that ironic, though?

00:45:51.680 Because I met him as just a regular guy.

00:45:53.360 Yeah, but that's even what makes it special is the fact that it was the journey from March 2002 to February 2nd of 2013.

00:46:01.400 That journey is what makes it what it is today.

00:46:03.420 But he was unique.

00:46:04.160 I shouldn't say he was a regular guy because there was something different about him or I wouldn't have married him.

00:46:07.500 No doubt about it.

00:46:08.320 I mean, when a kid knows from the beginning that, listen, I'm going to go in the military, I'm going to be a cowboy, like he's saying this when he's a kid.

00:46:12.620 He's not playing around.

00:46:13.280 Yeah, exactly.

00:46:14.040 He's being very serious about what he's saying.

00:46:16.240 And I like a part about the reason why I think Bradley Cooper was the right fit to play his role.

00:46:21.560 In an interview, when they asked Bradley Cooper about the role his father played in his life, and his father played a very big role in his life, he said,

00:46:28.180 they set a great example to me because my parents wanted me to choose a career that made me happy, but I also had a lot of self-generated desire.

00:46:35.240 What a word he used.

00:46:36.040 He said self-generated desire.

00:46:38.020 And I think Chris had a self-generated desire to go to the top.

00:46:42.240 So transitioning into Bradley, you know, how did you feel looking at Bradley?

00:46:45.600 I'm like, this guy put on 50 pounds, took the ax and took all of that to play the part.

00:46:50.800 And he, I mean, you're watching this, you're thinking, that's not Bradley Cooper.

00:46:54.760 I'm looking at guy Chris Kyle.

00:46:56.200 I was in the movie.

00:46:58.040 There's a few movies that do that to you.

00:46:59.680 There's a reason why this movie, you know, box office is $600 million.

00:47:02.520 That's a lot of numbers right there.

00:47:03.480 Oh, my gosh, yeah.

00:47:04.120 How did it feel, you know, having that scene, you know, Bradley play the role?

00:47:08.020 It's such an emotional thing because Bradley's just a good person, too.

00:47:13.220 And he really put his heart and soul into it.

00:47:16.320 I was not a part of the making of the movie.

00:47:19.120 And, in fact, the, I mean, I spent all my time with Jason, the screenwriter.

00:47:23.220 Got it.

00:47:23.740 And then, and Bradley and I are friends today, and I have a lot of respect for him.

00:47:28.580 I wasn't on set to the point where the last day they said, do you want to come for the last day?

00:47:33.340 It'd be a great way to wrap it up.

00:47:34.600 And my son had a spelling bee, and he was champion of his class.

00:47:39.720 And then he had the grade-wide spelling bee that day.

00:47:43.160 And I was like, I can't do it, man.

00:47:44.440 My kid's like, and I don't have any regrets.

00:47:47.660 He won.

00:47:48.080 It was pretty cool.

00:47:48.800 I wouldn't have missed it for the world.

00:47:49.980 Yeah.

00:47:50.240 So it was fun, you know.

00:47:51.320 But I never did go to the set, and watching the movie is very emotional.

00:47:55.960 I've only seen it twice in its entirety.

00:47:58.000 Once when I went to Warner Brothers to preview it, and once at the premiere.

00:48:02.740 It's very powerful.

00:48:04.340 It's so well done.

00:48:06.040 And even sometimes when I'm on a speaking engagement, and some people choose to play like a clip of the movie,

00:48:10.720 it's really hard for me to go on right after they play a clip.

00:48:12.920 Yeah.

00:48:13.380 It's just really well done.

00:48:14.320 So do you look at Bradley Cooper today as, is it an emotional, like, do you look at him as an actor and a talent?

00:48:22.320 Do you look at him as a friend, or do you look at him as, you know, there's a part of me that's emotional when I see Bradley.

00:48:26.580 I told you you're intuitive.

00:48:27.820 Yeah.

00:48:28.160 There's both.

00:48:28.960 I do have an emotional connection there, and it's been confusing sometimes to me because I think the biggest thing is that he understood Chris and he loved him, right?

00:48:40.680 And I think in a spiritual sense, Chris spent time with him.

00:48:44.600 And to me, that's a powerful draw because I feel like you know my husband, right?

00:48:49.120 And you know him better than a lot of people because you studied him, and you embraced him, and you embodied him, and I believe that you accessed him, you know, while you were doing this.

00:48:56.660 And so there is that emotional connection.

00:49:00.200 And it's interesting to have that with somebody that you didn't know prior, right?

00:49:03.960 Because you have a depth that you didn't create because the two of you sat and talked or answered your questions in your book.

00:49:09.340 And he's been really patient in going through that process with me through my grief, too, you know, where I'm trying to figure out how it makes sense of it, you know?

00:49:19.840 But I also think he's a longevity-type guy when it comes to friends.

00:49:24.640 You know, he's got friends from childhood, and he's not going anywhere, you know?

00:49:27.840 And so that's been the nice thing for me to feel like no time and then time.

00:49:34.180 And then I look back and realize, man, you know, he's been a friend for a long time and been really patient through all the kind of different things.

00:49:40.700 Did you ever look at him, and was there an emotional attraction to him after seeing how close he played Chris?

00:49:46.840 I think it was so overwhelmingly sad, all of it, that, you know, I think Bradley, I didn't sit with him at the premiere either,

00:49:54.740 and I think he cried for a while after, you know, it closed there.

00:49:58.460 And then I did, I stood up and hugged Jason and his amazing wife and, like, escaped real quick and just went in the hallway and just bawled my eyes out, you know?

00:50:06.740 And so there was that at that time, I think.

00:50:11.960 But, you know, he's, yeah, there is a connection there based on that, right?

00:50:17.400 But he's his own person, too, and I'm my own person, and we're living our own lives, too.

00:50:22.640 It's just, I can't make sense of it entirely.

00:50:24.640 Well, I mean, when I see the interview of you and him, there's a couple interviews,

00:50:29.240 but when you see the interview and you can tell the intensity in the room with a level of calmness.

00:50:37.380 It's so weird.

00:50:38.580 Yes.

00:50:38.700 Like, I see your chest, your breathing car sitting right next to him, and he's, you know, calm,

00:50:43.720 and you guys talking about the whole story from a, you know, I'm not part of the story.

00:50:48.880 I'm not part of Bradley's life.

00:50:50.020 I'm not part of your life.

00:50:50.700 Looking from the outside, I say, listen, there is some kind of an emotional connection there.

00:50:55.460 But I'm sure there's different for Bradley Cooper to play Wedding Crashers or Hunger, you know,

00:51:00.820 or what was it?

00:51:01.660 Hangover.

00:51:02.300 Hangover.

00:51:02.800 Yeah.

00:51:03.280 Or Stars Born, which was insane.

00:51:05.980 There's death there as well, but it's a different kind of a death and service and marriage and honor

00:51:11.500 and valor and all of that combined.

00:51:14.600 That's like, you know.

00:51:16.400 So when I looked at it, I said, you know what?

00:51:20.180 Interesting.

00:51:20.980 I'd be so curious to know how your conversation went together because you looked at him, you're like,

00:51:25.040 there was an attraction there.

00:51:26.900 Was it emotional?

00:51:27.820 What was it that you saw that, as a person from the outset that's fascinated by movies

00:51:31.260 and stars and stories, just an observation when I saw the two of you?

00:51:35.800 I think that, yeah, I think there's immense gratitude, too.

00:51:38.560 I can never, you know, his dedication to that role set my life on a different path, too.

00:51:44.380 And so I've got two men that I owe that to, right?

00:51:47.480 And it's Chris and it's Bradley.

00:51:49.740 Wow.

00:51:50.280 Right?

00:51:50.500 They set me up to be able to go forward.

00:51:52.780 And I know that's very important for someone like you to experience it the way you have.

00:52:00.920 So the part about your kids, I remember one time you were saying they hadn't seen the movie.

00:52:05.040 Have they seen the movie since or not?

00:52:06.560 No, they haven't.

00:52:07.340 But they're getting there, right?

00:52:08.900 They're getting to the point.

00:52:09.720 And Bradley wants to be there when they do watch it.

00:52:12.080 And so we'll have to figure out a time for that in the future.

00:52:14.620 And that's got to be recorded for your own memories.

00:52:17.920 Like, oh, my gosh.

00:52:19.460 Like, that, listen, if I'm the father, I'm telling you, I want that to be recorded and kept.

00:52:24.820 Yeah.

00:52:25.320 Because, and if I'm the kid, and imagine I'm your son today, 14, but visualize me at 40, I want to see my reaction.

00:52:32.740 Yeah.

00:52:33.000 Because I want to show that to my kids one day.

00:52:34.320 Yeah.

00:52:34.960 I want them to see it.

00:52:35.900 I want them to kind of see, here's who was your grandpa.

00:52:39.000 Yeah.

00:52:39.360 Just so you know.

00:52:39.900 Yeah.

00:52:40.380 And here's how much your dad loved his dad.

00:52:42.960 Yeah.

00:52:43.520 The level of respect that I have for him.

00:52:45.300 So that's going to happen soon, huh?

00:52:46.620 Yeah, I think so.

00:52:47.520 That's cool.

00:52:48.020 My daughter's been asking more than my son, believe it or not.

00:52:49.780 She was so close to her dad, too.

00:52:51.520 And so, yeah, it'll be interesting.

00:52:53.980 I don't, you know, I've had this hesitation.

00:52:55.320 I'll tell you why.

00:52:56.960 It was really important to me that their memories are so solidified of their dad that nothing can change that, right?

00:53:02.680 And so I don't, I didn't want anything to interfere with that.

00:53:05.760 I also thought it was really heavy subject matter, you know.

00:53:07.720 And they're not any stranger to that.

00:53:09.380 From the time they've been toddling, you know, they've seen me get a call that one of our friends died and we pray for the family.

00:53:15.260 And, you know, they're not a stranger to the realities of war and things like that.

00:53:19.120 But I think I just needed to make sure that they were so solid in their own memories that they didn't ever wonder, was that my memory or was that from the movie, you know?

00:53:28.380 Did they shoot the movie in 14 or 15?

00:53:30.360 We were working on it at 13, I think.

00:53:32.000 So they turned in the rough draft for the movie the day before Chris was killed.

00:53:34.920 So they were already working on it then.

00:53:36.280 That's right.

00:53:37.120 Yeah.

00:53:37.720 That's right.

00:53:38.460 Because Bradley and him only had one conversation to get on the phone, right?

00:53:41.260 Yeah, a couple on the phone, I think, yeah.

00:53:42.920 Did you ever have a chance to meet Clint Eastwood as well or not?

00:53:45.000 Oh, yeah.

00:53:45.680 Oh, my gosh, yes.

00:53:46.720 And I've seen him a couple times since then and what a neat guy.

00:53:50.740 Oh, my, I just.

00:53:51.760 I bet.

00:53:52.400 Yeah, they came out, you know, they came out to stay in Little Midlothian, Texas and stayed at the Holiday Inn down the street.

00:53:57.920 And, you know, they were very kind and humble when they came out to visit.

00:54:04.240 I have a lot of respect for Clint on how we tell stories and the kind of a talent he is.

00:54:11.960 And I put him in the genius category.

00:54:13.860 I don't think there's a, he's in a class of his own.

00:54:16.320 There's only a small.

00:54:16.900 He creates all the music, too.

00:54:18.020 He wrote a theme song called Taya's Song in American Sniper 2.

00:54:21.460 No way.

00:54:21.960 For real.

00:54:23.280 Yeah.

00:54:23.760 Really?

00:54:24.060 He's a composer.

00:54:24.820 Yeah.

00:54:25.140 It's crazy.

00:54:26.200 Yeah, I see him as somebody like that.

00:54:27.860 Yeah.

00:54:27.960 I see him as a full-on genius.

00:54:29.680 Yeah.

00:54:30.060 A bit of a maybe mad genius off camera.

00:54:32.300 He's not, though.

00:54:33.040 You know, he's just, he's literally like a, just kind of a, aw, shucks laugh.

00:54:37.780 Really?

00:54:38.020 Oh, my gosh.

00:54:39.200 Easy going.

00:54:41.340 Yeah, just, yeah, real calm, chill, just what you'd want him to be, kind of witty.

00:54:46.140 And he was, he was a stud growing up.

00:54:48.780 I mean, this guy is like a good looking, you know, handsome, you know, he was like a lady

00:54:54.260 killer woman, loved him.

00:54:56.220 And today he's still running the game.

00:54:58.340 You can tell that's pure love of the game.

00:54:59.640 At this point, you're not doing it to make another 50 million or 20 million.

00:55:01.940 You just love the game.

00:55:03.000 You mind if we transition to the event of what happened when Chris was shot?

00:55:07.240 Legendary Navy SEAL Chris Kyle, the most lethal sniper in U.S. history, was gunned down

00:55:11.800 at a Texas shooting range over the weekend.

00:55:13.560 The authorities have now released the 911 call made just after that shooting.

00:55:17.780 Listen, my brother just came by here.

00:55:19.980 He told me that he's committed a murder.

00:55:22.240 Allegedly shooting him and his friend at point blank range.

00:55:26.400 The two were trying to help an Iraq war veteran.

00:55:28.980 Eerie text message from former Navy SEAL Chris Kyle.

00:55:32.740 This dude is straight up nuts.

00:55:35.480 What I want to know is when Chad texts him saying, this guy is a loose cannon.

00:55:42.540 I don't know the exact words he used, but he says, this guy's a bit off.

00:55:45.360 Yeah.

00:55:45.740 And then I think Chris texts back saying, watch my six, which obviously watch my six is watch

00:55:50.140 my back.

00:55:50.960 So when he was going out, was this the first time ever they went out with him?

00:55:55.200 Yes.

00:55:55.820 So they've never been out with them.

00:55:56.980 Right.

00:55:57.380 It was a mom who was at our kid's school and said, my son has PTSD.

00:56:02.140 Will you help him?

00:56:02.660 He did not.

00:56:03.380 According to psychiatrists on both prosecution and defense, he never had any traumatic event

00:56:07.380 in his life.

00:56:07.960 He didn't have it.

00:56:08.700 He was getting a lot of money from the military claiming it.

00:56:10.960 Right.

00:56:11.120 And he was getting out of a lot of trouble claiming it, but he didn't actually, according

00:56:14.580 to them, have it.

00:56:15.560 So it was, it was interesting.

00:56:18.180 You know, Chris asked, would your son like to shoot?

00:56:22.040 This is my understanding.

00:56:23.560 And she said, yes.

00:56:26.160 But what I learned in the trial was that somebody testified that they had taken all the guns

00:56:32.080 out of their house because they were scared he was going to shoot himself and the whole

00:56:34.900 family or something.

00:56:35.500 So I have some, I have some very hard feelings about why would you tell him that he was good

00:56:41.020 around guns, but protect your own family?

00:56:44.580 There's a lot of other things you can do.

00:56:46.680 You know, you don't, shooting is great for people who love to do it.

00:56:48.760 It's very relaxing.

00:56:49.760 Right.

00:56:50.460 And, but it's not good for people who are obviously not stable.

00:56:53.180 So he took him down there with the best of intentions and the thing, obviously I've gone

00:56:57.180 over it in my mind and we experienced enough death in our life from friends and that I know

00:57:02.380 there's no good in doing the what ifs.

00:57:03.900 I know that.

00:57:04.860 But I have, I do remember my last conversation with him and I do remember he wasn't happy,

00:57:08.880 right, when he was on the phone around that guy.

00:57:11.220 And he's just a man of his word.

00:57:13.800 He said he would do it, he was doing it.

00:57:16.440 And so where some people might have said, you know what, you're pissing me off.

00:57:19.460 Like they, he apparently in the trial we learned they were going to get a Whataburger and he

00:57:24.300 said he didn't want anything, but they ordered him a burger anyway just in case he got hungry

00:57:27.440 later.

00:57:27.680 They're like, well, we'll just get you something in case you're hungry.

00:57:29.280 And apparently that made him mad.

00:57:30.420 Right.

00:57:31.140 I mean, just stupid things.

00:57:32.960 So I can see why they would have been like, man, I don't know what's wrong with this guy.

00:57:35.600 Just watch my six.

00:57:36.360 Right.

00:57:36.560 You know, just like, it could have been even a lighthearted comment about not wanting

00:57:39.720 a burger.

00:57:40.340 Right.

00:57:41.000 But we'll never know.

00:57:43.280 And, and, you know, there's, there's videotapes after he shot him and took the truck and, you

00:57:51.340 know, he went to Taco Bell and went to get his dog.

00:57:53.480 And that's not the person that's not a, that's not a mentally insane person.

00:57:58.740 That's a person who says, yeah, I know what I did and I'm going to get out of here before

00:58:01.660 I get caught.

00:58:02.160 Right.

00:58:02.980 In my opinion.

00:58:03.760 But when, when they had the video on him in the police car, it was interesting because when

00:58:10.440 he knew that the people were watching, he kind of appeared to me to be playing up something

00:58:15.440 and then not knowing there was another camera on him when they would go away, you know, he'd

00:58:19.240 be like leaning back in the seat, like whatever bunch of it, you know, to me, that's a

00:58:23.300 very calculated thing.

00:58:24.400 Now, obviously an educated opinion, I'm not a medical professional, but I don't, I see

00:58:31.020 somebody, when I look at him, I see somebody who was indulged, entitled, got away with a

00:58:36.980 lot for claiming something that, you know, he didn't have, according to the psychiatrist

00:58:42.620 and amped it up once too many, you know, he smoked a lot of dope and had it laced with

00:58:49.360 some things sometimes, probably did it that morning and.

00:58:53.300 Did they test him for it or no?

00:58:54.320 Did they kind of see if he was on anything for it?

00:58:55.800 You know, they never really were conclusive about that, right?

00:58:57.660 Because the way the law is also that if you take drugs and you do a crime, it doesn't,

00:59:02.640 it's no excuse.

00:59:03.400 You chose to take the drugs.

00:59:04.480 Oh yeah, of course.

00:59:04.500 So you can't get off for being.

00:59:05.520 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:59:06.520 So when you got the war, because the whole story is what, is he shot Chad first and then

00:59:12.660 he shot Chris five times in the back and once in the back of his head.

00:59:16.140 Who called you first?

00:59:17.640 We actually don't know, even if it was simultaneous.

00:59:19.720 Like, it could have been both because the sad thing is Chris had, you know, an old Western

00:59:24.920 pistol and he had fired six on one, I think six on another, and he still had his hand up.

00:59:30.100 He hadn't even put his hand down from shooting from the last bullet coming out.

00:59:33.160 He got him all the way down his body and Chad in the back.

00:59:36.120 So they were never able to tell from my understanding if it was simultaneous or if it was one, two,

00:59:40.480 but it was both of them were in the middle of something, right?

00:59:43.120 And then he shot Chad a couple of really horrible times that I even just found out recently.

00:59:52.140 He didn't, you know, he didn't have to finish it the way he did, and he did.

00:59:55.900 So, yeah, that night I was, we were, we were at my kids basketball game in the morning,

01:00:02.000 having a blast, and it was super fun.

01:00:04.960 I competed in like a halftime, you know, shooting competition, and then he was going to go do

01:00:10.320 his thing, and the kids were having a great day, and we stopped in at the house real quick

01:00:15.480 and with my daughter, and I'd already dropped off my son at a friend's, and so we just said,

01:00:21.060 I love you, you know, he's going shooting, and Chad was there, and everybody was just kind

01:00:25.220 of in a hurry, but we did, we always do, which is really cool, I think, you know, we didn't even

01:00:28.820 end a call without I love you, and we didn't leave goodbye without giving a kiss, it's just

01:00:32.120 kind of our thing, and we did that, and then they left, and I called him to see if he wanted

01:00:36.100 to do dinner, and he said, yep, so we were going to go out to dinner with our friend Sue's birthday

01:00:39.760 was, so, and I had the kids all back, and in the meantime, we hadn't heard from them,

01:00:44.880 and I remember Chad's wife, Leanne, was saying, you know, I'm starting to get really concerned,

01:00:48.800 and I said, look, I've been through this a lot in my life, you just, you assume it's not them

01:00:52.740 until you know, right, it's not them until it's them, so we're, I mean, we're going to

01:00:55.840 assume they have a flat tire, or something like that, so eventually, as we were getting

01:01:00.340 in the car to go to dinner, and I left Chris a message saying, hey, I'm getting a little

01:01:03.460 worried, babe, you know, because it wasn't like him not to text or call, anyway, the police

01:01:08.600 actually showed up, and I was getting the kids in the car, and then obviously, you know,

01:01:13.540 I'm going, okay, this is, but I'm not, I'm still keeping as cool as can be, and so I said,

01:01:19.040 hey, what's up, and he said, hey, I just need Chris's license plate and VIN number,

01:01:22.640 and everything over his truck, and I said, okay, what's going on, and he said, he's been

01:01:26.180 hurt, and I said, okay, right, and I said, give me a minute, and so I called my friend

01:01:30.680 who lived close by, and I said, hey, come get the kids for a sleepover, and I told the

01:01:33.880 kids, I said, hey, you're going to go for a sleepover, change of plans, you know, and

01:01:36.560 my son said, mom, are you sure everything's okay, and I've made a point of never lying to

01:01:40.340 my kids, ever, I'll find a way to say it, but I said, I don't know, I'm going to believe

01:01:45.420 so right now, but I don't know, right, and so he said, are you sure, he said it a second

01:01:51.680 time, and I said, honey, I don't know, but I think everything's okay, I just want you

01:01:54.520 to go have a sleepover, have a good time, and you know, and so they left pretty quickly,

01:02:00.080 I told a girlfriend of mine across the street, I said, hey, they said, and that was the first

01:02:03.680 time I cracked, I said, hey, they said Chris's heart, and then I started to, and I said, but

01:02:08.660 I don't want anybody in the house except you, so, or go to dinner, but I just, I need to deal

01:02:13.580 with this on my own, and she said, okay, so I went in the house, and I got the police the information

01:02:17.540 they needed, I mean, my girlfriend was there, and like, I swear, it was like three or four

01:02:21.840 minutes to get in the kids, and we had their sleepover bags packed, and so then we, I went

01:02:27.860 in the house, and said, I said to my friend, you know, nobody else comes in, I called my

01:02:35.260 mom, and I said, start praying, Chris's heart, I told my other girlfriend that I was very

01:02:41.380 close to, I said, hey, Chris has been hurt, like, I think, I think I called her, I'm not

01:02:45.480 sure if I did, I know I called my mom, and then, and then the phone was going off the

01:02:49.320 hook, and the text, and all this stuff, and I just didn't answer, because I, military training

01:02:53.000 wise, you just, you don't know until you know, and people start rumors, and take you down

01:02:56.500 a road that you don't have to go down, so, eventually, I think it was Mark Lee's mom

01:03:00.580 that kept calling, and I finally said, I was irritated at the time, I said, hey, what's

01:03:05.820 up, right, and she said, are you okay, and I said, what, and she said, well, have you

01:03:10.260 heard, and I said, heard what, and she said, oh, nothing, and I said, heard

01:03:15.080 what, right, and then she said, and I, she said, I heard Chris is dead, and I said, I

01:03:20.680 haven't heard that, but I'll let you know if I do, right, and I hung up the phone, and

01:03:23.440 I was like, I'm still not going to, I'm still not going to go there, and so, then there were

01:03:28.720 a few men coming in, I learned later, they were pastors, but at that time, I was just

01:03:33.380 focused on, like, getting through, and praying for him, so they came in, and then I, at one

01:03:38.060 point, my friend that was with me said, hey, the police want to talk to you, and so I went

01:03:42.820 in, and then that's when they told me, and it was weird, because I had this feeling kind

01:03:48.020 of come over me, like, oh, it did happen, right, like, oh, it is, it is my turn, because

01:03:52.860 you always wonder when your number's up kind of thing, and then she was, she told me later,

01:03:58.160 she said, it's like you went into business mode right away, and I think I've learned since

01:04:01.720 that that's my protection mechanism, like, that's too big, so get busy doing what needs

01:04:05.940 to get done, so I had the tears, you know, rolling down my face, but I was just like, okay,

01:04:09.760 who are these people, and they're, like, they're pastors, then let's pray, right, and

01:04:12.980 I said, I know where he is, but just pray for him anyway, and so they did, and I was

01:04:18.440 like, okay, you go, right, where's Chad, what's going on, and then Leanne came over, well,

01:04:23.880 she was on her way, and she had been downtown with her parents and daughter, and we didn't

01:04:29.840 know it was Chad, right, but we knew there was another body, and so we figured it was Chad,

01:04:32.880 but at the time, it's the same mentality, you don't know until you know, so until it's

01:04:36.080 him, it's not him, and so she called on the way there, and I didn't want to tell her

01:04:41.580 about Chris, but she said, you know, she was like, damn it, you know, and I said, okay,

01:04:45.400 pull over, right, and I said, okay, he's dead, and so I think I called my mom right away,

01:04:51.680 and then she was, like, obviously on a flight, that's my mom, and my other friend who just

01:04:55.100 had back surgery, like, was standing the whole time on the flight, and then Leanne got to the

01:04:59.120 house, and I was mostly trying to just take care of her. We were waiting to hear if it was

01:05:04.020 Chad, but there started to be people coming in the house, and I looked at one of my police

01:05:08.480 officer friends, and I said, I said, I'm going for a run, you can come or not, or I'm going

01:05:12.980 for a walk, I said, you can come or not come, but I need to get out of here, because then

01:05:16.140 it was like, there's only so long you can put off that feeling, and so he's like, oh,

01:05:20.560 and we'll go with you, and about four of them, they were really good friends with Chris,

01:05:23.100 poured out, they're in plain clothes, and then I just started running, like, sprinting,

01:05:26.720 until I realized, like, I heard their footsteps a while back, and I was like, this is retarded,

01:05:31.440 like, they're my good friends, and they're trying to keep up, because I've got adrenaline

01:05:34.340 and shock in me, and they don't, right, so we just walked until Leanne found out, and

01:05:41.320 then she left right away with her family, and then Chris's parents arrived, and I called

01:05:47.940 them, too, but they already knew, I guess they knew before I did, their officers in their hometown

01:05:51.540 already told them, and so, you know, that was the beginning of a long, long stretch.

01:05:58.820 How much after that was a memorial at the Cowboy Stadium?

01:06:03.880 Gosh, I want to say that was within, like, seven days.

01:06:06.000 Oh, wow, that.

01:06:07.040 Well, I think so, and you know, Melanie Luttrell, Marcus Luttrell's wife, is, she has a grace

01:06:13.040 and a presence and a calm about her that I've never seen from anybody else, and as soon

01:06:17.080 as she heard, she and Marcus got in the car and drove up, and so she had Ugg boots, leggings,

01:06:20.760 and, like, a sweatshirt on, right?

01:06:22.720 And she lived in those clothes for probably three or four days without showering, without changing

01:06:26.440 clothes, never said a word, and she went into Cowboy Stadium to talk with the executives

01:06:29.840 in their, like, beautiful outfits, you know, and she's still, like, just punching it out

01:06:33.660 until finally one day she went to Target and, like, you know, got stuff to change into.

01:06:38.680 Some of his SEAL friends and other friends got together, and man, they just made that procession

01:06:42.400 happen, and the Cowboy Stadium happened, and we knew we needed a big place, and we wanted

01:06:50.180 something that represented him.

01:06:51.300 It was helpful for me because, in the end, the last time I saw his body, I didn't know

01:06:56.880 if I could walk away, and, um, I was like, well, like, we're here.

01:07:03.340 Like, I'm just going to be happy for him, and I'm going to know that his soul is here,

01:07:06.600 and, like, just treat it like, babe, can you believe we pulled this off, you know?

01:07:10.220 And just, that was the only thing I could do to, to walk out is, like, to just think,

01:07:15.560 okay, he's not there, he's here, and I'm going to have to look at something that would

01:07:18.700 be pleasing to, or bring a smile to my face about his feelings right now, you know?

01:07:24.660 Your grace is unbelievable.

01:07:26.540 No, thank you.

01:07:27.400 I mean, and it's very much felt every time you speak about Chris, every time.

01:07:33.340 I was listening to your speech you gave, powerful, on how you started, and, you know,

01:07:39.000 who Chad was in your life, you know, the role Chad played, wherever he wanted to go.

01:07:44.560 Chad would just go, and they would hang out together, they were like best buddies, and

01:07:48.740 the chats play very important roles in a person like Chris's life, a very important role in

01:07:53.820 a person like Chris's life, yeah.

01:07:55.480 So, you know, I appreciate you sharing that with me, because I know, uh, I was, uh, I wouldn't

01:08:00.840 want to have to explain myself over and over and over again, reliving the entire story over

01:08:05.380 and over again, but, uh...

01:08:06.560 Patrick, I never do that.

01:08:08.180 Yeah.

01:08:08.360 This might be the first time on camera that I've gone through the whole thing.

01:08:10.960 Yeah.

01:08:11.280 You're very comfortable to talk with, and, um, so it was the right time, and you're good

01:08:15.980 at what you do.

01:08:16.660 I am very curious with your story.

01:08:18.280 Yeah.

01:08:18.460 It's a lot of respect, because the deeper I got, the more interested I got with the

01:08:23.080 whole thing.

01:08:23.740 You know, the one question I would have with you that, um, is something that I think about.

01:08:29.140 You said something, you said, you know, it's not good to do the, if I had to do it all

01:08:33.160 over again, pa-pa-pa-pa-pa.

01:08:34.480 I'm not doing the, if I had to do it all over again.

01:08:36.340 The only thing I think about is, I was in the military, I have guns, I have, you know,

01:08:40.720 I have a lot of things, I'm all about it, um, but do you think somebody like the shooter,

01:08:48.200 like, do you think any of that with a personality like that could have been prevented?

01:08:52.360 Meaning, you know, you know how you hear the debate right now with whether it's NRA, pro-gun,

01:08:56.460 pro-this, pro-that, with a little bit more background check on medicine that some people

01:09:01.280 are taking, you know, medication they're on.

01:09:03.320 Do you think we need a little bit of luck?

01:09:05.000 Because my idea was, I was having this conversation with a few different people who are pro-gun

01:09:08.220 and anti-gun, and I'm trying to get both sides of it.

01:09:10.980 Yeah.

01:09:11.220 And I'm not trying to take a 100% position.

01:09:12.800 For me, I think people need to be trained.

01:09:15.040 Do you think medicine is something we should test for?

01:09:17.320 Like, if you're on Zoloft or Prozac, you probably don't need to buy a gun.

01:09:21.120 What do you think about it yourself, having gone through it personally yourself?

01:09:24.500 Yeah.

01:09:24.700 So I don't think that's fair because I think there are people with a lot of people I know

01:09:31.380 and myself included where I've taken antidepressants, and they've been really good because there's

01:09:35.300 a legitimate chemical imbalance if you're in fight or flight too long, and yet you're

01:09:39.560 completely responsible and wouldn't hurt a soul, right?

01:09:41.700 So I don't know that that's the answer, but I do know what you're saying about how do we

01:09:45.260 find an indicator for this, right?

01:09:47.720 And I, like you, talk to people on both sides of it, and I am curious.

01:09:51.780 I'm not staunch on one way or the other, but I do think that there may be a part of this

01:09:56.120 that we have to accept evil as evil, and there may be a part that we have to say somebody

01:09:59.420 who would do horrific things, they're not going to be easily identifiable as much as

01:10:04.360 we want them to be because most people are not like that.

01:10:07.400 Most people would not be able to pull the trigger on another human being for their own,

01:10:12.880 you know, because they didn't feel good, right?

01:10:14.340 Like, that's, we drive cars, and so, you know, everybody's had road rage probably at

01:10:18.900 one point or another.

01:10:19.580 Did you have a desire to kill that person?

01:10:21.300 You know what I'm saying?

01:10:21.940 Like, you could have driven your car into them.

01:10:23.620 People don't do that.

01:10:24.920 Once in a while they do, but the indicator for evil is what we're looking for, and I

01:10:29.560 don't think it's in depression.

01:10:32.060 I, you know, I don't know about drug use, right?

01:10:35.200 It might be a bit, but this guy had been picked up by the police, not picked up, like pulled

01:10:40.700 over for something, and he would say, I have PTSD.

01:10:42.460 So they would take him to the mental institution.

01:10:44.920 The mental institution would release him with something other than psychosis, meaning that's

01:10:51.240 usually code for kind of like drugs, right?

01:10:53.060 Like, we're not fighting anything truly mentally, physically, but they can't tell the police

01:10:56.300 because of hip laws.

01:10:58.280 So there's no communication between the police and the mental health agency.

01:11:01.760 He also held his girlfriend with a samurai sword against her neck off of the wall, like

01:11:06.720 a decorative sword against the wall like a week before he did this to Chris, but she didn't

01:11:10.480 want to press charges, right, because she said he was protecting her from the outside

01:11:14.000 or whatever.

01:11:15.100 And the police can't write any record of that, right, because there's no charges.

01:11:19.380 So in some ways, we're doing really, really well.

01:11:21.540 I'm a very private person in a lot of ways, and so I like privacy laws, but in some ways,

01:11:26.740 you know, we're also doing ourselves a disservice because, you know, if Chris would have known

01:11:31.960 some of these things, the lesson we learned and what I tell people is you've got to be

01:11:36.220 able to talk to a couple of people they served with probably before you decide to, like,

01:11:41.700 take them under your wing.

01:11:42.600 I'm not talking about a cup of coffee.

01:11:43.700 Go have a cup of coffee with anybody you want, right?

01:11:45.360 But he had such positive experiences hunting and shooting with veterans and organizations

01:11:50.320 who do that that I don't think it occurred to him that there would be, and especially

01:11:54.880 when the guy's mom comes to you with tears in her eyes.

01:11:57.280 Like, how are you not going to help a guy, right?

01:11:59.340 That stuff.

01:11:59.820 And his mom is, she's culpable in this.

01:12:02.520 Like, she didn't give Chris all the information, and she should have.

01:12:06.160 So, and some people have suggested there's a case against her.

01:12:08.900 I don't have any desire to do that, right?

01:12:10.300 It doesn't change anything, and it's not.

01:12:12.000 But the point is, A, we have to call it what it is, right?

01:12:15.980 We have to not be afraid of it.

01:12:17.160 We have to look at people who say they have PTSD and use our own judgment, right?

01:12:20.780 I'm not saying you judge if they do or they don't.

01:12:22.640 But PTSD, this is important to me that people know this.

01:12:25.500 A, it doesn't make you a killer, right?

01:12:27.460 It does not.

01:12:28.780 And B, it is something that you can live through, work through, and change.

01:12:33.740 And people seem to think that these veterans that have PTSD, it's the rest of their life,

01:12:37.420 get a paycheck.

01:12:38.260 No.

01:12:39.080 There are rape victims with PTSD.

01:12:41.180 There are child abuse victims with PTSD.

01:12:43.600 I mean, I've got friends who are counselors, kids that are sexually abused and threatened,

01:12:47.740 their life is going to be ended.

01:12:49.080 So their life is at risk every single day in this home, and they're raped and abused.

01:12:52.800 And guess what?

01:12:53.260 Nobody says you're off for the rest of your life.

01:12:56.180 They go to college, they get a degree, they work, right?

01:12:58.080 They go to counselor, they get their crap fixed.

01:13:00.100 I mean, that's a huge mountain to have on you, especially for a kid.

01:13:04.480 It's doable, but you have to invest in it.

01:13:06.620 So we have to get people to a state where they're seeing PTSD as, yes, I have a lot of

01:13:12.040 stress from trauma, and it is changing my reaction to things and my sleep patterns,

01:13:15.820 but I need to find my own.

01:13:17.080 I need to find help or find somebody who will walk that walk with me to get the help I need.

01:13:20.480 Yeah, you know, the reason why I ask it from somebody like you is because you have more

01:13:25.180 insight, because after something like that happens to you, you're probably going to go

01:13:28.300 into research mode, wanting to study, you're probably approached by a lot of different

01:13:31.540 people.

01:13:31.900 They're bringing up questions, topics, all this other stuff.

01:13:34.360 So I was just curious to know what you thought about it, because, you know, sometimes how do

01:13:39.480 you measure a guy like that?

01:13:41.000 Like, how do you sit there and say, no, yes, is there a measuring mechanism?

01:13:45.860 Is it medication?

01:13:47.060 Is it arrest report?

01:13:48.180 Is it, what is it to be able to filter out and say, I just don't think this is a person

01:13:51.720 that needs to be allowed into such and such a location or a gun range or a gun shop or

01:13:56.480 whatever it is?

01:13:57.360 I think you have to use your intuition, right?

01:13:58.900 So here's the thing.

01:13:59.920 Chris obviously had some intuition on this, and so did Chad.

01:14:02.660 They knew something was off.

01:14:03.620 They wouldn't have texted each other.

01:14:04.960 Right, right.

01:14:05.340 And I know his voice on the phone.

01:14:07.160 He was not happy with this guy.

01:14:08.340 But it didn't really occur to him, right, that he would do that.

01:14:13.160 And so what I think we have to be aware of is that we don't know, like, not all veterans

01:14:17.360 are heroes.

01:14:18.100 We have to be honest about that.

01:14:19.600 There are guys who are bad guys, just like there are dentists who do, who rape their patients

01:14:24.580 when they're under, you know, gases and stuff.

01:14:27.500 It's, we have to be honest with ourselves.

01:14:29.820 Evil exists, and we have to trust our gut more.

01:14:31.860 And Chris's, his philosophy was that intuition aside, he gave his word, right?

01:14:39.900 Could you say that one more time?

01:14:40.800 Intuition?

01:14:41.360 Intuition aside, he gave his word.

01:14:42.720 He gave his word, yeah.

01:14:43.480 He didn't want to go that day.

01:14:45.200 And, you know, there are probably, I think, a lot of Holy Spirit and divine promptings that

01:14:48.720 we ignore, and I think we need to key into those and go, if I don't want to go, why do

01:14:53.120 I not want to go?

01:14:53.680 Do I have a bad feeling or, you know, and be honest about that.

01:14:56.180 And then if you pick the guy up and he's not acting right, you know, yes, you want to

01:15:01.080 help everybody, but maybe this is the time where you're going to take a timeout, right?

01:15:04.980 This doesn't feel right.

01:15:05.980 I'm going to, I'm going to follow up on him a little bit more.

01:15:08.020 I mean, I think, you know, I don't know how he would have followed up because there didn't

01:15:11.100 seem to be a police report anywhere, but I do recommend that people do that.

01:15:15.240 I don't at all put it on anything with Chris on what Chris could have done because there's,

01:15:19.360 what are you going to do with something like that?

01:15:20.520 But let's be fair.

01:15:21.120 If something's off with somebody, don't do it.

01:15:22.960 Like to educate people listening.

01:15:23.880 I see what you're saying, yeah.

01:15:24.760 And obviously the full disclosure from mother's side, not everything came out.

01:15:29.180 Have you ever confronted her?

01:15:30.280 Have you ever had a conversation with her or never?

01:15:32.200 You know, it's interesting.

01:15:33.120 She, she confronted us, uh, I wanted to talk to us in the courtroom when her son pleaded

01:15:37.240 not guilty and said, it's just as hard for me as it is for you.

01:15:40.360 And we were like, what?

01:15:42.240 Your son is sitting right, you know, you just saw and talked to your son.

01:15:45.000 All that aside, um, I don't have anything that I need from them and I don't have anything

01:15:50.380 to give them.

01:15:51.000 Just curious, curious to know if that.

01:15:52.700 In the very beginning, the very beginning, I said, oh, I feel so bad for that mother.

01:15:57.240 Right.

01:15:57.520 I, I didn't know.

01:15:58.600 I said, please tell the people who knew her, please tell her.

01:16:00.600 I don't, I don't hold her responsible.

01:16:01.840 That's changed when I got more information.

01:16:03.540 And I think that nobody's responsible but the person that pulls the trigger.

01:16:06.360 He's ultimately responsible.

01:16:07.480 He's paying the price.

01:16:08.840 And I really still, my faith, you know, I believe that, I believe that he can go to

01:16:14.620 heaven just like everybody else if, if he believes in, if his heart is with, I mean,

01:16:18.040 but it's not mine.

01:16:18.900 I don't need to minister to him.

01:16:20.240 I don't need to save him.

01:16:21.280 I don't need to talk to him.

01:16:22.160 Got it.

01:16:22.780 You know?

01:16:23.540 I mean, you, you've forgiven.

01:16:24.820 Obviously, I don't, I don't sense a single ounce of bitterness in you.

01:16:27.940 Yeah.

01:16:28.100 I mean, I don't know if I totally, I don't know.

01:16:29.660 The forgiveness where it's hard for them, I just choose not to carry it for him.

01:16:32.800 Got it.

01:16:33.240 Yeah.

01:16:33.520 Got it.

01:16:33.840 So, so the part you said, part of it is intuition, but do you think there's any role that the

01:16:39.280 government plays in it to deal with the shooter?

01:16:41.840 Like, is there anything that law-wise can change for it to control, like additional testing

01:16:46.140 or background or not really?

01:16:47.660 I, I, I wish there was.

01:16:49.880 I personally don't think there is because I don't think, I don't think that we can find

01:16:56.260 evil in the heart.

01:16:57.180 I don't think you can find it.

01:16:58.260 I think it changes in time.

01:16:59.360 I think different things provoke people as far as what the government could do.

01:17:04.520 I mean, the guy got in some trouble in school, right?

01:17:07.200 So we could say, well, if they've gotten in trouble, but here's the other side of this.

01:17:10.700 One of my good friends is a ridiculously successful businessman and he was in so much trouble.

01:17:16.200 He dropped out of school and then he got in trouble with the law and the judge said,

01:17:19.220 you get the choice, right?

01:17:20.560 Military or jail.

01:17:21.800 And he chose military and look at him now, right?

01:17:23.920 So that's what I'm saying.

01:17:24.980 I just, I think if you make a law.

01:17:26.820 Got it.

01:17:27.280 So you, you are from the standpoint of, you don't think there's anything we can do that

01:17:33.120 could prevent a shooter like this, especially from the law side, government side, state side

01:17:37.780 to prevent this from happening.

01:17:39.400 Okay.

01:17:39.640 I do have one thing that I have one idea on, but I'm not sure.

01:17:42.140 So rooting out even on a person's heart, I don't think we can do, right?

01:17:45.680 Using our intuition is important.

01:17:47.480 People have feelings a lot of times when somebody's off and we have to respect that and listen to

01:17:51.420 it.

01:17:51.600 And we can't listen to everybody that says it, right?

01:17:53.640 There's no blanket statement we can do.

01:17:55.120 But the school shootings and the things that are happening like that, when somebody gets

01:17:59.620 a lot of attention and then we start talking about what was their background like, what

01:18:02.700 was their deal, what was, right?

01:18:03.940 They're getting a lot of attention for it.

01:18:05.860 They don't want to kill themselves.

01:18:07.120 They don't want to even hurt themselves.

01:18:08.980 They just want to take it out on everybody else and have everybody else look at their

01:18:11.580 pain.

01:18:12.940 So why are we giving them a voice?

01:18:15.020 The thing is, if you shoot up a school, you're erased.

01:18:18.080 You go to jail.

01:18:19.160 We do your trial.

01:18:19.880 You don't exist.

01:18:20.800 We don't care what brought you here.

01:18:22.380 No media attention.

01:18:23.480 No marketing.

01:18:23.560 No media attention.

01:18:23.580 No, because they didn't want to hurt themselves.

01:18:26.220 They wanted to hurt everybody else so that we would look at their pain.

01:18:28.800 And I don't think that that's, I think that exacerbates the problem.

01:18:32.200 Now you've got copycats.

01:18:33.160 There was a day where it wouldn't even cross someone's mind to do that.

01:18:36.040 It's tough today because freedom of press, they need stories to tell.

01:18:40.200 Right.

01:18:40.600 And any of that stuff, the moment it happens, every channel is showing it for six hours

01:18:44.500 all day and they're getting all this attention.

01:18:46.540 It's another form for somebody else to get that kind of attention.

01:18:49.640 How many times have you seen people do this just to get the attention?

01:18:52.280 Right.

01:18:52.360 A lot of times.

01:18:53.160 And it's not going to, right.

01:18:54.080 Like that solution probably isn't going to work because you have to accept the reality

01:18:57.660 of the world we live in.

01:18:59.140 And that's kind of what you're saying.

01:19:00.140 Like when I say this, you go, well, this is the reality.

01:19:01.760 And I find that everybody who wants it to stop, we're all on the same page.

01:19:05.160 We all want it to stop.

01:19:06.160 You're from Texas.

01:19:06.840 You grew up in Texas.

01:19:07.560 No, I grew up in Oregon.

01:19:08.640 Oh, you grew up in Oregon.

01:19:09.480 That's how you said.

01:19:10.220 Oregon and San Diego.

01:19:11.400 Did you say California?

01:19:12.360 Something California.

01:19:12.920 Oregon.

01:19:13.320 Then I went to Wisconsin.

01:19:14.620 But your mother is from Southern California.

01:19:16.200 Your father is from Oregon.

01:19:17.060 Yeah.

01:19:19.640 I did when I met Chris, yeah.

01:19:21.080 Oh, okay.

01:19:21.600 That's right.

01:19:21.900 I lived in Long Beach and then we lived in San Diego.

01:19:23.520 Long Beach.

01:19:24.220 Wow.

01:19:24.580 Out of all the places.

01:19:25.640 I know.

01:19:26.040 Very familiar with Long Beach.

01:19:26.840 LBC, baby.

01:19:27.620 Yes, LBC.

01:19:28.760 Snoop and I, you know.

01:19:29.800 Really?

01:19:30.240 No.

01:19:30.400 Well, the way I had to remember, Taya has to do a little bit with Snoop, but that's an

01:19:36.020 inside joke between us.

01:19:37.060 Yeah.

01:19:37.760 Because he truly is one, just so you know.

01:19:39.800 Yeah, he's a player.

01:19:40.420 He's a player.

01:19:42.040 So, you know, transitioning, this one question was brought up from the audience that wanted to know

01:19:47.620 a little bit on the closing of this.

01:19:49.020 What ended up happening with Jesse Ventura?

01:19:51.640 What was the ending with that?

01:19:53.060 Because there was so much he came out, because in the book he doesn't really say, he calls

01:19:56.580 him scruffy face or something like that.

01:19:58.100 Right.

01:19:58.660 It was on a show called Opie and Anthony and another SEAL called in and was like, ask him,

01:20:03.180 it was this guy.

01:20:03.920 And then when they asked him, Chris wasn't prepared for that.

01:20:05.960 And like I said, he's an honest guy, right?

01:20:07.700 So he says, yeah.

01:20:09.740 There's someone on the line saying that you were in a bar fight with Jesse Ventura.

01:20:13.580 Is that true?

01:20:14.980 Is it?

01:20:16.200 Yes.

01:20:16.820 Oh, shit.

01:20:17.800 Oh, let's get into this.

01:20:19.080 He was upset with the war.

01:20:21.040 He doesn't agree with it.

01:20:22.600 I approached him and he said, hey, you know what?

01:20:24.340 That's not the place.

01:20:25.200 I appreciate it, but we are having a wake.

01:20:27.920 And then he said that, you know, we deserve to lose a few days.

01:20:30.940 And what happened when he said that to you?

01:20:32.820 Did you grab his ponytail?

01:20:34.180 No.

01:20:34.540 You slugged him?

01:20:35.140 Good.

01:20:35.320 I punched him.

01:20:36.820 Good.

01:20:38.040 Ironically, Chris was the one saying, we're not going to name his name.

01:20:41.060 And I was like, name his name?

01:20:42.180 Everybody knows it happened.

01:20:43.160 I mean, this was forever ago.

01:20:44.200 Before Chris, the idea of Chris even being in a book, right?

01:20:47.680 And it was, everybody was there.

01:20:50.940 I mean, we had 11 witnesses testify.

01:20:52.540 It was just one of those perfect storm things.

01:20:54.460 And we ended up, we won the appeals.

01:20:57.620 And so, you know, there was no money paid out.

01:21:00.300 Never, because it says December 17th.

01:21:02.160 There was an undisclosed payment.

01:21:03.480 Something like, but nothing was paid out.

01:21:05.480 Everything finalized.

01:21:06.780 Yeah.

01:21:07.200 It got a lot of attention.

01:21:08.440 It was so interesting seeing.

01:21:09.420 Well, it was.

01:21:09.880 And you know what?

01:21:10.320 It really taught me, you know, we talk about grace.

01:21:13.160 There was so much that I wanted to say before the murder trial, right?

01:21:15.880 And stop saying this guy has PTSD.

01:21:18.200 And that case, oh my gosh, if I could, there was so much I wanted to say, right?

01:21:23.960 And in retrospect, I still could.

01:21:26.700 But I think it's one of those things, again, why you look back and you go,

01:21:30.020 in wrestling, the bad guy gets attention too.

01:21:31.980 So, I don't know that it's so much about good guy, bad guy as it is attention.

01:21:36.080 Fair enough.

01:21:36.540 Yeah.

01:21:36.760 You know, I was just curious.

01:21:37.820 You know, the stories were like, this is what happened.

01:21:40.960 Here's what he said.

01:21:41.560 This, here's what he said.

01:21:42.300 This, and then I think some of the SEALs got involved.

01:21:44.740 And it finally was like, let's just 1.85, 1.8 million, 1.35.

01:21:47.960 And then nothing happens.

01:21:48.840 Eighth Circuit comes out.

01:21:50.080 Yeah.

01:21:50.240 And he was on Rogan.

01:21:51.460 He was on a bunch of different places talking about it.

01:21:53.060 Oh, yeah.

01:21:53.620 So, let's wrap up with this book.

01:21:55.940 So, one, American Sniper, obviously bestselling book.

01:21:59.200 It sold millions of copies.

01:22:00.280 The movie became a best hit.

01:22:02.400 It's changed many people's lives in many ways, source of inspiration, all these other things.

01:22:08.120 Then you wrote the book, American Wife.

01:22:09.860 Did amazing, unbelievable results.

01:22:12.060 People loved it.

01:22:12.740 You impacted so many people's lives with that.

01:22:14.760 And now you have your newest book coming out, American Spirit.

01:22:17.660 Can you talk a little bit about the book and what inspired you to write this book?

01:22:21.300 Yeah.

01:22:21.540 So, when I was out on the road and I'd be talking to people and I was in deep grief.

01:22:25.200 And, I mean, it's funny.

01:22:25.860 I don't even remember a lot of the places I went for speaking engagements, right?

01:22:28.660 I was just doing and going through that part of my life and grief.

01:22:32.620 And these people would tell me incredible stories and things that were happening that were such good news.

01:22:36.680 And I thought, why are we not talking about this?

01:22:39.780 Because, for me, that was healing to know that there are a lot of good things happening in this world.

01:22:44.160 There are a lot of people who are not what you see in the media.

01:22:46.520 They're not the left extreme or the right extreme.

01:22:48.880 They're just these people who are doing good things and not spewing their political thoughts.

01:22:54.980 They're just doing good things in the world.

01:22:56.460 They're taking care of their neighbor.

01:22:57.780 And so, I talked to Jim about it, Jim DeFelice, who wrote American Sniper, American Wife.

01:23:02.080 And he was like, no, I think that really is good.

01:23:03.900 So, what we did is we took a collection of the stories and we did something that we tried to pull from different age groups,

01:23:09.900 from young to older, different areas of life, things that you would never think of that are bringing good.

01:23:16.300 Because people need, I think, to look at pain as, yes, horrible, grieve it, feel it.

01:23:24.980 But what can you do to shine light in that darkness, right?

01:23:27.600 What can you do to have purpose in pain?

01:23:30.340 Because I personally don't believe it's anything God wants for it.

01:23:33.000 I don't think it's God designed.

01:23:33.980 But I do think that he will bring us through it.

01:23:36.560 And I do think that whether people have faith or not, and it's not all people have faith in there,

01:23:41.040 but they're doing something good with it.

01:23:43.700 And sometimes it was because it happened to them, and sometimes it was because it was somebody they saw.

01:23:48.020 And a lot of them fascinate me because they started with a spark, right?

01:23:52.100 They didn't set out to do something big.

01:23:54.820 They set out to do something.

01:23:56.720 And their spark lit a movement.

01:23:58.940 And to me, that's powerful stuff.

01:24:01.320 I tend to think, why do something unless it can be big?

01:24:04.800 And it reminds me that some of the most powerful things in life are the smaller things, right?

01:24:11.980 Like raising your kids, you'll probably affect millions of people through the way that you raise them

01:24:15.180 because of the lives they touch and so forth.

01:24:17.720 And the goodness that we can all do is pretty incredible.

01:24:20.800 To me, it's American spirit because it's our freedom.

01:24:23.760 We have freedom to do these things and to share ideas and to correct wrongs in the world.

01:24:29.620 And we're the most charitable nation in the world.

01:24:32.120 So let's celebrate that part of the American spirit instead of people hating the country and whatever.

01:24:36.720 Let's look at the spirit of who we are.

01:24:38.800 Because there's the pioneers in the beginning, right?

01:24:41.060 They went through great things.

01:24:42.400 Your family went through great suffering to get where you got to.

01:24:45.360 They did it, I think, if you'd ask your parents, for the next generation, right?

01:24:48.140 No doubt about it.

01:24:48.840 Right.

01:24:49.460 And that's what we're talking about here.

01:24:51.120 That spirit is still alive here.

01:24:52.580 We have the opportunity.

01:24:53.280 You talk about entrepreneurs all the time.

01:24:55.300 That is what this is.

01:24:56.560 You are an entrepreneur and you have that spirit because there's something in the world you know you can do, right?

01:25:01.300 And you know you can bring something to the world.

01:25:05.320 And that's the American spirit.

01:25:06.760 We have the opportunity to do it.

01:25:08.060 We do it for the next generation.

01:25:09.840 And we do it in a variety of different ways.

01:25:12.700 And it's in the kids, too.

01:25:14.180 Like, when everybody goes, oh, we're screwed.

01:25:15.340 The next generations are going to mess it all up.

01:25:16.900 I mean, people have been saying that forever, right?

01:25:18.360 Yeah, forever.

01:25:18.940 But they're really good young kids doing awesome things.

01:25:21.180 You mind sharing one of them?

01:25:22.080 Just share one of the stories.

01:25:23.680 Yeah, okay.

01:25:24.080 So one of them, since we were talking about, you know, PTSD and suffering like that,

01:25:28.940 there was a guy named Micah Fink.

01:25:30.200 And he had his own suffering.

01:25:32.060 And he had his own journey.

01:25:33.480 And he found his way through it.

01:25:34.860 And he's got this really cool program, Heroes and Horses,

01:25:37.760 where they train wild Mustangs, right, up in the mountains.

01:25:40.660 Wow.

01:25:41.200 And he tells people, this ain't a vacation, right?

01:25:44.000 But if you have a problem and you want to come, come out.

01:25:46.640 Like, get real with nature and beast and man.

01:25:48.760 And you have to be in touch with the beast's emotions as much as you do your emotions.

01:25:52.580 And you have to get real, right?

01:25:53.860 There's no faking it.

01:25:54.680 Wild Mustangs.

01:25:55.420 And it's hard work.

01:25:55.780 Yeah.

01:25:56.180 There's everything from that.

01:25:59.020 There's, like, homeless organizations who don't just give help to the homeless.

01:26:02.860 They change their life.

01:26:03.760 They're in there for two years.

01:26:04.960 And they have an amazing attrition rate.

01:26:06.840 So it's, like, for, like, 90% of the people to go out into the world and never be homeless again is unheard of.

01:26:13.020 But they're doing it.

01:26:13.800 And they're doing it because they cared enough to do things differently.

01:26:16.480 You know, I had a friend of mine many years ago who would say, you know, we don't need CNN.

01:26:20.120 We need GNN.

01:26:20.980 I said, what do you mean by GNN?

01:26:21.900 He said, we need Good News Network.

01:26:23.120 Yeah, inspire people.

01:26:23.680 He said, we need some good news.

01:26:24.380 We don't have a lot of good news.

01:26:25.420 We have a lot of bad news.

01:26:26.420 It's all about what happened.

01:26:27.360 Who got killed.

01:26:27.920 Who did this?

01:26:28.340 Who did that?

01:26:28.700 We need some good news.

01:26:29.720 And people feed off of that.

01:26:31.320 Oh, no doubt about it.

01:26:31.780 That's why we're so hateful to each other because we're feeding off of it.

01:26:34.440 I agree with you.

01:26:35.060 I think there's a spirit of division.

01:26:36.760 I think we actually have more in common than the media makes it out to be.

01:26:40.560 I sit down and talk to somebody that we may have opposing views.

01:26:43.340 But there's 90% of stuff we agree with.

01:26:46.060 There's just a 10% where we may.

01:26:48.060 How you accomplish it might be different.

01:26:49.640 But the goal is usually the same.

01:26:51.440 You know, the only challenge I have with you this entire time we sat together is you're a Mavs fan.

01:26:54.720 I'm a Lakers fan.

01:26:55.540 I think that's the only thing.

01:26:57.060 Aside from that, what an incredible story, honestly.

01:27:00.260 I mean, a part of what you're saying is God puts tough things in your life.

01:27:04.620 And I think he also chooses the right people.

01:27:06.620 I don't know if anybody else could have been Chris's wife but you.

01:27:11.520 I think that was chosen.

01:27:12.920 I think there was a big plan behind that.

01:27:14.640 And we are, through your life experience, learning so much about ourselves

01:27:22.040 and certain challenges that we may be dealing with as human beings that's private to us

01:27:26.760 that we can sit there and say,

01:27:28.420 I can pick up from those seven things that he had to go through and she had to go through.

01:27:31.940 And, oh, my gosh, I'm going to figure out how to get better in these three years of my life.

01:27:35.500 So I have so much respect for you sharing your testimony.

01:27:37.980 Thank you.

01:27:38.880 And so how can people get a hold of you?

01:27:40.480 Are you more active on Instagram or Twitter?

01:27:42.880 Instagram.

01:27:43.480 Instagram.

01:27:43.760 Okay, so I suggest you reach out to our follower on Instagram.

01:27:46.800 With that being said, Ty, thank you so much for being a guest here on Valuetainment.

01:27:49.740 Truly, thank you.

01:27:50.520 Thank you.

01:27:51.120 Thanks, everybody, for listening.

01:27:52.460 And, by the way, if you haven't already subscribed to Valuetainment on iTunes, please do so.

01:27:57.080 Give us a five-star.

01:27:58.480 Write a review if you haven't already.

01:27:59.980 And if you have any questions for me that you may have,

01:28:02.160 you can always find me on Snapchat, Instagram, Facebook, or YouTube.

01:28:06.020 Just search my name, Patrick MidDavid.

01:28:07.760 And I actually do respond back when you snap me or send me a message on Instagram.

01:28:12.760 With that being said, have a great day today.

01:28:14.660 Take care, everybody.

01:28:15.380 Bye-bye.

Valuetainment - July 09, 2019

Episode 337： American Snipers Widow- PTSD, Marriage, Life

Episode Stats

Length

Words per Minute

Word Count

Sentence Count

Misogynist Sentences

Hate Speech Sentences

Summary

Transcript