Valuetainment - Episode 345： How To Monetize Your Skills - Tom Bilyeu

00:00:00.000 30 seconds, one time for the underdog, ignition sequence start, let me see you put em up, reach

00:00:09.220 the sky, touch the stars up above, cause it's one time for the underdog, one time for the

00:00:16.200 underdog.

00:00:17.220 I'm Patrick Williams, the host of Value Tim, and today I have a special guest with me,

00:00:19.920 Tom Bailu.

00:00:20.640 You've seen him probably on some interviews with the YouTube channel he runs called Impact

00:00:25.160 Theory, and he ran a company called Quest from zero to a billion dollars.

00:00:28.820 We're going to talk about how you can monetize your skills.

00:00:31.620 Tom, what's up, man?

00:00:32.680 Thanks for coming on, man.

00:00:33.360 Thanks for having me.

00:00:34.140 Yes, you're a pro, I like your stuff, man.

00:00:35.980 You're very different than a lot of the guys online, I got to tell you that.

00:00:38.780 Thank you.

00:00:39.680 So, before we get into it, obviously, anybody who knows you, they've heard your story, and

00:00:45.960 we're going to go through that part, you know, growing a business 57,000%, first three years,

00:00:50.020 1,200 employees.

00:00:51.800 I think at one point, you guys had your product, Quest Bar, being sold at what?

00:00:57.120 40,000 different points that you guys sell, like some stores, all these other things,

00:01:02.500 and very, very good stories.

00:01:04.260 So, I want to go through that part, and we'll talk a little bit of family, a little bit of

00:01:07.380 current times, what you're thinking about, what's taking place, and we'll go from there.

00:01:09.800 So, before we go deeper into the business, I'm in high school with you, okay?

00:01:15.240 We're in 10th grade.

00:01:16.220 Yep.

00:01:16.480 Who's Tom Bailu?

00:01:17.160 So, I wanted to be a comedian.

00:01:21.860 So, in 10th grade, that would have been my identity 1,000%.

00:01:25.480 Really?

00:01:26.020 Oh, yes.

00:01:26.600 Every day at lunch, I practiced my stand-up.

00:01:30.360 So, I would, let's say we were at a table with 10 people, I would do a 45-minute impromptu

00:01:35.820 comedy routine, and my goal always was to get, there was one guy, if you could get him just

00:01:40.700 right, he'd actually spit his soda through his nose.

00:01:43.480 So, I was always trying to, like, hit that level of funny, and I just thought that was

00:01:47.660 going to be the course of my life.

00:01:49.040 In fact, if it weren't for social media, I would be convinced that someone from high

00:01:52.640 school right now is thinking of me as a failed stand-up comic somewhere.

00:01:56.940 Now, where did it start, though?

00:01:57.980 Is this 10th grade or prior to that?

00:01:59.540 It probably, so, my sister was really good at sports, and she's older than me, so I naturally

00:02:03.740 followed her into that, but I did not have her proclivity for sports.

00:02:07.660 I did not yet have a growth mindset, so I didn't think I could work to get better, so I stepped

00:02:11.520 into it, I had no natural talent, it was very embarrassing.

00:02:14.260 Some of my most embarrassing moments are related to sports.

00:02:17.720 I'll give you one quick one.

00:02:19.140 I was the slowest person in the district.

00:02:21.140 I ran cross-country, and my thighs used to rub together until they bled, and it was just

00:02:26.500 like a whole mess.

00:02:27.720 When you say thighs, I mean, were you heavy?

00:02:29.700 Yeah, I was about 200 pounds when I was 14, so it was...

00:02:33.600 How tall were you at 14?

00:02:34.600 I was relatively tall, but I'll put me at, like, 5'8", 5'9".

00:02:38.280 I mean, that's...

00:02:38.920 You're heavy if you're 12 pounds.

00:02:40.120 Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

00:02:40.800 By today's standards, not so much, but back then, yes, people thought of me as being a

00:02:45.160 little bit chubby.

00:02:45.720 Interesting.

00:02:46.260 But by, like, when people look at my photos from before, it's like, you weren't heavy.

00:02:49.740 Well, that's compared to now.

00:02:50.860 So, comedian.

00:02:51.880 Yeah, that was, like, the whole shtick.

00:02:53.080 So, about in 7th grade, I found theater, I found that kind of stuff, and really poured myself

00:02:58.640 into speech and debate.

00:03:00.240 And, yeah, I thought I'd be a stand-up comic.

00:03:02.080 Now, is it comedian because you had a tough life growing up?

00:03:06.740 Because, you know, comedians, sometimes, they have to make people laugh, and they have to

00:03:09.540 make things easier.

00:03:11.160 Kevin Hart, you know, he had to figure out a way to make himself calmer in the pressure

00:03:14.780 situation.

00:03:15.280 Was it just purely because you like making people laugh and entertaining people?

00:03:18.060 I think some of it was, where do I fit in the family dynamic?

00:03:21.000 Got it.

00:03:21.260 And realizing that, oh, I could make people laugh, and then they started turning to me to

00:03:27.300 make them laugh.

00:03:28.120 And then I found that was a way, I think I would have been picked on a lot if I, because

00:03:32.740 I was in band, I was a little bit chubby, I was bad at sports.

00:03:36.340 So, I would have been picked on, but I found that if I could make people laugh, I could

00:03:40.100 disarm them.

00:03:41.000 So, the biggest guy in the school once said, yeah, don't f**k with Bilyeu because he's

00:03:45.860 funny.

00:03:46.640 And so, like, that became my thing, was I could talk my way out of anything.

00:03:51.440 But when I went to college, because my comedy was based on making fun of myself, I wanted

00:03:56.780 to take myself more seriously.

00:03:58.400 I wanted to stop doing the self-deprecation all the time.

00:04:01.240 And so, because I didn't have a wounded childhood, because I did not have a need to make people

00:04:06.160 laugh, it was just something that had served me, I stopped doing it on a dime.

00:04:12.380 Self-deprecation.

00:04:13.280 Yep, totally.

00:04:14.160 Because you didn't want that to be your identity.

00:04:16.160 Correct.

00:04:16.460 Now, do you think there's a link between comedians and genius?

00:04:20.700 Because their brain goes a million miles an hour.

00:04:22.820 So, do you think there's a link there?

00:04:23.740 I think that if you're good, there is definitely an element of genius.

00:04:28.360 But you had a guy squirting coke out of his nose, so you must be doing something right.

00:04:31.260 Look, when you compare me to a Robin Williams or a Kevin Hart or somebody like that who's

00:04:36.080 just at the top of their game, I was never funny like that.

00:04:39.260 So, I was what I'll call living room funny.

00:04:41.700 So, in a living room situation, if I told you, hey, I want to be a comedian, you'd be like,

00:04:44.600 yeah, you're going to be great, this is amazing.

00:04:46.780 But one of the most transformational moments in my life, do you know who Mitch Hedberg is?

00:04:51.580 I do.

00:04:52.000 Oh, my God.

00:04:52.760 Patrick, I'm about to introduce you to somebody here.

00:04:54.740 So, I went to, I decided I was going to get back into it.

00:04:57.600 So, long story short, my life was not going in the direction I wanted after college.

00:05:01.680 I was looking desperately to find like, how am I going to get back on track?

00:05:04.800 So, I think, I'll go back to comedy.

00:05:07.000 I was so good at it.

00:05:08.180 So, I do a routine at the Laugh Factory, open mic night.

00:05:13.040 L.A.

00:05:13.660 L.A.

00:05:14.060 Okay.

00:05:14.600 And at open mic night, you start with about 300 people.

00:05:18.260 And I was the first one there.

00:05:19.340 I did my thing.

00:05:19.960 I was funny, but not, no one's going to remember me.

00:05:23.040 And everyone starts leaving as their friend finishes the open mic.

00:05:26.360 And then at the end, you get really famous comedians that come on and they try new material.

00:05:30.260 So, it's usually bad.

00:05:31.120 So, by the last comedian, it's like, I'm not joking, maybe 12 people left.

00:05:35.220 Wow.

00:05:35.660 And finally, we get to, they're about to announce the last comedian.

00:05:38.100 I can't take it anymore.

00:05:39.000 So, I tell my friend, hey, let's get out of here.

00:05:40.500 We stand up.

00:05:41.120 This guy comes on stage.

00:05:42.000 He's like, yo, before you go, you're going to want to stay for this last guy because he is the funniest man in America.

00:05:47.520 And I thought, all right, that's a pretty big hype.

00:05:49.640 Let's see.

00:05:50.700 We sit back down.

00:05:51.600 And this guy, I've never heard of before in my life.

00:05:53.620 Mitch Hedberg comes out on stage.

00:05:55.080 He is so funny that partway through the act, I actually think to myself, can you die laughing?

00:06:00.240 One time, a guy handed me a picture of me.

00:06:03.020 He said, here's a picture of me when I was younger.

00:06:06.260 Every picture is of you when you were younger.

00:06:11.360 Because I can't catch my breath.

00:06:13.360 It was insanity.

00:06:14.960 Now, you can Google him.

00:06:16.120 He's that funny.

00:06:17.240 And I was like, okay, I could get that good.

00:06:21.380 But I would have to dedicate my entire life to it because I now see what funny is.

00:06:26.980 And getting some laughs is different than making somebody ask, can you die laughing?

00:06:31.680 You know, that's the part that I think you and I have in common with is, did you logically right there say, I don't know if I can compete with this guy.

00:06:39.220 So, logically, this is not the business for me.

00:06:40.860 I'm leaving this industry.

00:06:41.780 Is that kind of what it was?

00:06:42.780 I said it a little bit differently.

00:06:43.920 I was like, I needed to believe I could beat him on a long enough timeline.

00:06:47.260 Like, I needed to believe if I put my energy and effort into this, I could beat him.

00:06:50.720 And so, I said that to myself.

00:06:52.140 But in the room, still there, sitting like sweat from laughing, I was like,

00:06:55.620 I'm never doing this again because I'm not willing to give myself over to it.

00:06:59.900 That was always meant to lead me to something else.

00:07:02.320 So, because what I wanted to do was direct, which is like the biggest cliche of all time.

00:07:06.400 So, I wanted to direct and I thought, well, if I can get attention by being funny, then I've got the opportunity.

00:07:12.280 Now, you know, the other part that's interesting with your story is the fact that you're not a drug guy.

00:07:17.360 You said the first time you tried marijuana you were 26 or something like that.

00:07:20.100 Well, that was the first time I tried alcohol.

00:07:21.740 It was even later for marijuana.

00:07:23.220 So, wait a minute.

00:07:23.860 The first time you tried alcohol was 26.

00:07:25.960 Marijuana is later.

00:07:26.920 Later.

00:07:27.180 You said you've never done cocaine.

00:07:28.240 You've never done nothing else outside of that.

00:07:29.840 So, what was, is it, were you born in a faith-based family with strong values and principles?

00:07:35.080 No, but there's something about my mom.

00:07:36.840 She has a way of like making it sound like a really bad idea.

00:07:40.960 And my, I had a lot of aunts and uncles and second cousins and stuff that were all alcoholics, drug addicts.

00:07:48.960 And watching them, I thought, ooh, that is not a good look.

00:07:53.180 I mean, like real, like some real white trashy stuff. 1.00

00:07:57.480 Yeah.

00:07:57.560 And so, I was just like, no.

00:07:59.120 And my mom was chiming in with, it's way bad.

00:08:02.260 You don't want to do it.

00:08:03.180 You don't want to end up like that.

00:08:04.200 So, she's in my ear making it sound really logical to not do it.

00:08:07.020 And I'm watching people act a fool who are doing it.

00:08:09.740 So, I just thought, yeah.

00:08:10.580 Was there anything she said that was different out of the ordinary?

00:08:12.580 Like was it fear-based, absolute, you're going to die, you're going to do this?

00:08:16.100 You'll ruin your life somehow, someway, yeah.

00:08:18.920 When I thought I was going to have kids, I wanted to ask my mom, like, you were so good.

00:08:22.740 Like neither my sister or I ever got into trouble.

00:08:25.320 We never did drugs.

00:08:26.480 We never drank.

00:08:28.620 Really?

00:08:29.060 Yeah, but she wasn't like some tyrant about it.

00:08:31.100 So, I had a whole thing where I was going to have her document like how she did it. 0.98

00:08:34.740 It was very impressive.

00:08:35.540 I don't know.

00:08:36.100 Have you ever interviewed your mom?

00:08:37.740 I haven't, but I want to do a legacy video for her.

00:08:40.020 I think that would be fascinating.

00:08:41.640 Mortified.

00:08:42.140 You're talking three kids, no drugs or alcohol?

00:08:44.980 Two kids, but yeah.

00:08:46.020 Two kids, no drugs, no alcohol.

00:08:46.980 No drugs, no alcohol, no trouble, nothing.

00:08:48.800 My sister to this day is like the most straight and narrow person you will meet.

00:08:52.640 So, when you tried it, what was it like for you?

00:08:54.300 Alcohol?

00:08:55.040 Both of them.

00:08:55.620 Oh, alcohol made me feel like I was suppressing the urge to dance on the table.

00:08:58.980 It is awesome and I love it the most.

00:09:00.940 I just don't let myself do it because it's not congruent with wanting to live forever.

00:09:06.380 There's just too many downsides, but that shit is fun.

00:09:08.980 So, like, I get how people get in trouble.

00:09:10.880 I just don't have an addictive personality.

00:09:12.580 So, for me, it was easy to be like, yeah, this is fun,

00:09:14.600 but I can weigh it against the disadvantages and there are way too many.

00:09:19.520 Marijuana makes me feel like my head is heavy and I just want to sleep.

00:09:23.220 I do not understand.

00:09:24.180 Like, there are some people that metabolize it in a way that they love it,

00:09:27.800 they feel creative, whatever.

00:09:28.920 I feel like someone is pressing play and pause on my brain.

00:09:32.620 It's f***ing obnoxious.

00:09:34.080 So, that didn't work out for you at all?

00:09:35.840 Not at all.

00:09:36.420 Interesting.

00:09:36.900 Now, your friends, did your friends do anything?

00:09:38.580 Were your friends drinking?

00:09:39.560 Were they smoking pot?

00:09:40.480 Not in high school, but in college, yeah, sure.

00:09:43.440 Okay.

00:09:43.800 So, in college, you're around them.

00:09:44.920 They're offering it to you.

00:09:45.900 Nothing happens.

00:09:46.700 You're saying no.

00:09:47.320 Not interested.

00:09:48.540 How are you processing that?

00:09:50.120 Because I understand there's a part where it's, mom told me this, but then you leave.

00:09:56.420 So, did your parents raise you in a way where they controlled you or they kind of let you be

00:09:59.540 so you never had to rebel against them?

00:10:01.360 I never had to rebel against my parents.

00:10:02.920 Got it.

00:10:03.460 My dad was into his thing and that, like, if anything, I was trying to do things to get my dad's attention,

00:10:10.460 but not in a destructive way.

00:10:11.940 But that's part of what drew me to filmmaking was that was how he and I bonded.

00:10:15.940 My mom was tailor-made to be my parent. 0.96

00:10:20.360 So, she did not play.

00:10:22.480 I remember one time my friend came into school and he was like, dude, my mom tried to slap

00:10:26.460 me and I blocked her and she burst out crying.

00:10:28.440 She's never going to slap me again.

00:10:30.000 I was like, I'm doing that.

00:10:31.840 The next time my mom tries to slap me, I'm going to block it. 0.99

00:10:34.200 This is going to be amazing.

00:10:35.500 And so, I'm pushing my mom's buttons and she goes to slap me and I block it.

00:10:38.700 And I'm like, this is over.

00:10:40.660 I won.

00:10:41.500 And she goes to slap me on the other side and I block that too. 1.00

00:10:43.920 And I'm like, I shut this woman down. 1.00

00:10:46.280 And as I'm celebrating, pow, she hits me with the third one.

00:10:49.640 And I remember in the moment, I wasn't mad.

00:10:52.160 I was like, respect.

00:10:53.740 Like, my mom is not the one that stops and starts crying when you push against her. 0.83

00:10:58.880 Like, she would just raise the level.

00:11:00.600 So, because I had so much respect for my mom, my mom always made me feel crazy loved, like,

00:11:04.940 even in those moments.

00:11:06.100 And was my biggest cheerleader and always told me I could do anything.

00:11:09.980 Yeah.

00:11:10.220 I just never felt like I had to push back.

00:11:11.780 How were her parents?

00:11:13.240 Her parents were dysfunctional, I think, to say the least.

00:11:17.000 And I remember my mom used to force her parents to hug us and tell us they loved us because

00:11:22.140 they never did with her.

00:11:23.280 Wow.

00:11:23.680 And so, she just wasn't going to play that with her kids.

00:11:26.180 So, for me, it was always that.

00:11:27.980 It was hugs and goodnight kisses and I love you.

00:11:30.500 And, you know, just, it was always there.

00:11:32.840 But never trying to control you to the point where you had to rebel.

00:11:34.820 No, it's weird.

00:11:35.420 Like, she really did, like, she instilled fear, but she let that be my own fear.

00:11:40.020 Like, I was definitely afraid of failing.

00:11:42.440 You got straight A's in my family.

00:11:43.820 That was that.

00:11:44.460 But I wasn't afraid of my parents.

00:11:47.640 And then you didn't drink.

00:11:49.420 You didn't do drugs because that was going to ruin your life.

00:11:51.440 And then I think because she helped me believe that my future was going to be awesome, I

00:11:54.840 didn't want to f*** it up. 0.60

00:11:55.800 Yeah.

00:11:56.440 So, now, after that, you know, you go into wanting to be, you know, in the film industry.

00:12:01.960 You're wanting to go to that direction.

00:12:03.180 Talk a little bit on that.

00:12:04.440 Yeah.

00:12:04.780 So, my dad makes an offhanded comment when I'm 12 years old.

00:12:07.800 So, this is like the classic case of Bill Gates has a computer when he's a kid.

00:12:11.320 And because of that, he's just a little bit ahead of everybody in that area.

00:12:14.580 My dad's work happened to have a camcorder before anybody had cameras.

00:12:18.500 I mean, now, like, people today can't imagine a time where you don't have a camera with you

00:12:22.540 at all times.

00:12:23.560 But when I was a kid, that was super weird.

00:12:25.860 And so, my dad would bring this video camera home and me and my friend would mess around

00:12:29.800 with it.

00:12:30.260 And at the time, I thought I wanted to be in front of the camera.

00:12:32.460 And I just always knew where to put the camera to make something funny or whatever.

00:12:35.980 And so, I slowly started being the guy behind the camera.

00:12:38.320 And my dad made an offhanded comment.

00:12:39.740 And he was like, I think you're actually better behind the camera than you are in front of

00:12:42.560 the camera.

00:12:43.200 Now, he may have been trying to save me from myself and saying, like, you're terrible in

00:12:46.440 front of the camera, kid.

00:12:47.240 So, you should get behind it.

00:12:47.980 But he said it in a way that, like, made me think, oh, wow, my dad thinks I'm good behind

00:12:51.480 the camera.

00:12:51.860 So, then I started focusing behind the camera.

00:12:54.200 We bonded over films.

00:12:55.840 That was, like, our shtick.

00:12:57.400 And I, like, I want humans to be blank slates, but the reality is we're not.

00:13:03.000 And while our ability to change is astronomical, there are definitely things that we have responses

00:13:08.460 to.

00:13:08.820 And I respond to visual things with extreme aggression.

00:13:14.320 And so, when I see something, man, it'll hit me really hard.

00:13:17.260 So, you didn't have to, like, push me to get into film.

00:13:19.720 Like, I loved it.

00:13:20.700 And then realizing that I had an intuitive understanding of where to put the camera or

00:13:24.040 whatever to make it funny.

00:13:25.620 And then my dad saying that.

00:13:27.080 And then, like, oh, you have to pick something to study in school.

00:13:29.680 It's just, like, it snowballed.

00:13:31.220 And so, it was never, like, oh, this is my greatest passion.

00:13:33.920 It's just, like, little by little, I became more obsessed with it and more obsessed with

00:13:38.500 it and dove deeper into it.

00:13:40.300 So, go to film school.

00:13:41.300 And long story short, the beginning of my film career is extraordinary.

00:13:45.680 I'm killing it.

00:13:47.420 And I thought I was naturally talented.

00:13:49.620 I thought, like, growth mindset didn't exist when I was a kid.

00:13:52.400 Like, I never heard those words until I was probably in my 30s.

00:13:55.400 So, as a kid, it was like you're either born with it or you're not.

00:13:58.900 And so, that's what I thought it was with film.

00:14:00.300 I just thought I knew how to direct.

00:14:03.160 Complete opposite of the way you think today.

00:14:05.060 1,000% in the opposite direction.

00:14:06.480 And this is what ends up happening is exactly what led me to that.

00:14:09.960 So, I'm in film school.

00:14:11.940 My first films are good.

00:14:13.260 And I started getting attention.

00:14:15.060 And USC film school is dog-eat-dog.

00:14:16.880 So, statistically speaking, you're more likely to get into USC film than you are Harvard Law.

00:14:21.420 So, against all odds, they tell me I'm never going to get in.

00:14:25.080 I lock myself in a room for two years, do nothing but study so that I can get in.

00:14:28.600 As a junior, I get in and now I'm thinking, wow, I've already defied the odds.

00:14:34.340 My first films are good.

00:14:35.340 Start getting attention.

00:14:36.380 I get selected as one of only four people selected to do a thesis film.

00:14:40.080 And they give you a phantom budget of like $35,000, which back then was fucking insanity.

00:14:44.600 I couldn't have imagined it.

00:14:46.280 And I completely fuck it up.

00:14:48.840 I mean, just like so bad, I mess up in every conceivable way you can mess up.

00:14:53.820 And it like broke some part of me.

00:14:56.860 How public of a loss was it?

00:14:58.280 Massive.

00:14:58.980 So, first of all, you go from being one of your entire class to being one of only four in your class to do the film.

00:15:05.200 So, all eyes are already on you to see what you're going to do.

00:15:08.840 And then people started making like what we would now call memes, but didn't have that word back then.

00:15:14.020 But they were making like little loops of my film to make fun of it, which was devastating.

00:15:18.640 And then I screened it in front of family and friends.

00:15:21.180 And it was just heartbroken because it was so obviously bad.

00:15:23.560 What role did, you know, that moment where you're sitting in your dorm room and you're talking to your mom with the phone hanging down and your friend comes in and sits right next to you?

00:15:31.600 What does that do?

00:15:32.680 Say that doesn't happen.

00:15:33.760 Does it make any kind of an impact on your next move?

00:15:35.960 You know, I've thought about that a lot.

00:15:37.680 And I do wonder sometimes what my life would have been if I had had just enough talent to do well on that film as well.

00:15:44.840 And then the realization comes later in a professional setting.

00:15:49.000 Could that have knocked me off course?

00:15:51.200 It's very possible.

00:15:52.380 But what ends up happening is I have that moment.

00:15:55.240 I'm, you know, laying in the middle of campus on a pay phone to my mom saying like, I don't have talent.

00:16:00.600 And having this realization of I'm actually not good.

00:16:04.520 And that was really hard when you think that you're either born with it or you're not.

00:16:07.380 So I go and I graduate and I start teaching.

00:16:10.160 And in teaching, I begin to realize two things.

00:16:13.360 One, I'm sliding towards depression.

00:16:15.000 And two, that I can help these students make their films better.

00:16:18.520 And if I can help them make their films better, why can't I make my own better?

00:16:21.860 How old are you at this time?

00:16:22.940 22, 23.

00:16:23.960 Oh, 22, 23 you're teaching.

00:16:25.560 Yeah.

00:16:25.780 And what school is this?

00:16:26.820 New York Film Academy in Los Angeles.

00:16:28.900 In Los Angeles.

00:16:29.580 Got it.

00:16:30.420 And so this is, are you going at school as well at that time or you're done with school?

00:16:34.240 No, I was done.

00:16:35.040 Done with school.

00:16:35.680 Yeah.

00:16:35.820 So was it like something you wanted to do or was it just transitional next move?

00:16:39.680 Well, so I did a lot of transitional jobs and teaching was definitely one of them.

00:16:43.380 But I was selling video games.

00:16:44.640 I sold insurance door to door.

00:16:46.160 Like I was just trying to do anything to make ends meet.

00:16:49.580 I was super broke living in an apartment with no furniture.

00:16:52.680 I mean, it was just like a whole period in my life.

00:16:56.260 And I could not see a path to success.

00:16:59.120 It wasn't like there was that sense of being lost and hopeless because you don't know how to break out of it.

00:17:04.280 There was no internet.

00:17:05.540 So it's like I literally have no idea how to get out of this.

00:17:08.960 What year is this?

00:17:10.000 This would have been 2000, 2000.

00:17:12.460 Yeah, 99, 2000 was the worst of it.

00:17:15.000 All right before I met my wife who really helped me turn things around.

00:17:18.060 How did that change?

00:17:19.060 So one, by this point, I start reading about things we would now call the growth mindset.

00:17:24.080 So I'm knee deep in Tony Robbins.

00:17:26.180 I'm in selling insurance door to door.

00:17:29.480 How did you get introduced to that?

00:17:30.520 Was it through insurance?

00:17:31.300 Selling insurance?

00:17:32.300 Insurance.

00:17:32.760 Who were you with on the insurance side?

00:17:34.440 What company?

00:17:34.880 It was prepaid legal.

00:17:36.060 Oh, really?

00:17:36.680 Yeah, yeah.

00:17:36.900 So you were prepaid legal.

00:17:37.800 Yeah, it's a legal insurance.

00:17:38.920 Got it.

00:17:39.320 So prepaid legal was sold, I think, a few years ago for 651.

00:17:43.320 It's now a different company name, right?

00:17:45.560 I think it's called Legal Shield or something like that.

00:17:47.380 Yeah.

00:17:47.620 So you're selling prepaid legal.

00:17:50.000 Is that what introduced you to a little bit of Tony Robbins?

00:17:52.260 It's possible.

00:17:53.080 I actually don't remember.

00:17:54.500 But I started being around people that were trying to get better.

00:17:57.600 And you go to like sales conferences and they're teaching how to get better.

00:18:00.180 And it's like all planting this little seed in my mind about maybe self-improvement is possible.

00:18:05.080 Maybe who you are today isn't as important as who you could become.

00:18:07.980 And so that like ends up being powerful.

00:18:09.840 But like it wasn't like I had some big epiphany.

00:18:12.700 It was just like, huh, this is interesting.

00:18:14.160 Then I'm teaching and I'm thinking, well, I can make their films better.

00:18:16.920 Why can't I make mine better?

00:18:18.520 Meet my wife.

00:18:19.900 And my wife just takes to that mentality right from the jump. 1.00

00:18:23.480 But then starts pointing out some holes in my game, shall we say, to put it politely.

00:18:28.620 How soon?

00:18:29.800 Not right at first.

00:18:31.140 But when I went and asked for her father's blessing to marry her, he said no.

00:18:37.620 And that was eye-opening.

00:18:40.540 Because his story is crazy.

00:18:42.120 So he was born in a small village in Cyprus, which is a tiny Greek island.

00:18:47.720 And he clawed his way to the top of one of the largest shipping companies in the world.

00:18:51.740 I mean, just an extraordinary story.

00:18:53.020 And I went to the village that he grew up in.

00:18:54.460 And you think, how?

00:18:55.900 How do you go from that?

00:18:57.700 No, I went with Lisa, my wife.

00:18:59.460 Got it.

00:18:59.760 But not with him.

00:19:00.660 But I met his parents.

00:19:02.100 That was surreal.

00:19:03.120 That really brought it home.

00:19:04.060 Did that make sense why he is the way he is?

00:19:05.820 No.

00:19:06.260 It made it harder to understand.

00:19:07.820 Wow.

00:19:08.180 It was like that.

00:19:08.720 But because they were, like, to give you an idea, his mom, he bought her a washing machine.

00:19:13.740 And she was like, get this thing out of my house. 1.00

00:19:16.080 Like, she couldn't fathom technological advancement.

00:19:19.560 Like, she knew her ways.

00:19:20.880 That was it.

00:19:21.720 Like, she grew up in the mountains.

00:19:23.020 She married someone she'd known since she was, like, five years old.

00:19:25.760 It was like, just like her life was on rails.

00:19:28.900 And that was that.

00:19:29.560 Like, what are you doing with this newfangled stuff?

00:19:32.460 And so they sent him to the mountains to study.

00:19:36.460 And he, like, really just takes to it.

00:19:39.640 And is one of those guys that just had, like, enough hustler mentality in him that he was

00:19:42.920 always looking for an opportunity.

00:19:44.840 Made good on opportunities.

00:19:46.180 Nothing was ever below him.

00:19:47.260 Just, like, worked his ass off.

00:19:48.880 And what he ends up achieving is really, really extraordinary.

00:19:52.220 And so he's looking at me, this broke, undereducated kid.

00:19:56.160 And he says, how do you plan to take care of my daughter?

00:19:59.780 And I was like, sir, I know what you see.

00:20:02.980 But I'm telling you right now, I'm the most ambitious person you've ever met.

00:20:06.780 And he gives me the look that I would give to somebody that says the same shit.

00:20:10.600 And I'd be like, whatever.

00:20:11.860 Like, ambition is bullshit unless you have drive.

00:20:14.980 And I didn't have drive.

00:20:16.040 And so at the same time those words are coming out of my mouth, I'm laying in bed three

00:20:19.560 to four hours a day every day.

00:20:21.500 And the only thing that gets me out of bed is the shame of my girlfriend, now wife,

00:20:25.880 is working.

00:20:27.180 I'm not.

00:20:27.940 And she comes home for lunch.

00:20:29.100 And my only responsibility in the world at that time is to make her a sandwich before 0.60

00:20:32.700 she gets home.

00:20:33.860 And so the fact that, like, only shame would get me out of bed in time to do it, it was

00:20:38.120 just crazy.

00:20:38.760 It was like such-

00:20:39.180 Are you teaching at the summer?

00:20:39.880 No, no, no.

00:20:40.460 So this is like, I was only teaching in the summer.

00:20:42.840 So it's like this really weird cadence of, like, things are sort of happening at the

00:20:46.080 same time.

00:20:46.640 And you're kind of doing sales on the side.

00:20:48.600 Yes, but that was before I met her.

00:20:50.460 So you're not doing sales anymore?

00:20:51.900 Not at this point.

00:20:52.700 Got it.

00:20:53.100 So it was, yeah, it was a hard time.

00:20:56.920 And so realizing that I have ambition but not drive and that I need to get some drive

00:21:01.240 if I'm going to pull this off.

00:21:02.240 And my wife was very encouraging.

00:21:04.640 But at the same time, my wife didn't pull punches. 1.00

00:21:06.680 And she's like, what the fuck?

00:21:08.800 Like, you need to do your hair.

00:21:10.260 You need to actually wear nice clothes.

00:21:12.160 Because I would just bum around in sweatpants and wouldn't do my hair.

00:21:15.820 And I mean, look, I cannot say enough that my wife was always loving and encouraging and

00:21:19.380 always felt like she shared that vision of who I could become.

00:21:22.560 Yeah.

00:21:22.700 But it was like, it wasn't enough for her that I was daydreaming about it.

00:21:26.240 I had to be doing something to go get it.

00:21:28.400 And so that was good.

00:21:30.200 Like, to have somebody that really held me to a standard respect to my wife.

00:21:35.200 So, yeah.

00:21:35.660 So that, like, realizing that and realizing that I didn't want to be ashamed of myself anymore.

00:21:40.220 I didn't want to be depressed.

00:21:41.320 I wanted to do something extraordinary.

00:21:43.180 But that was going to demand a high price.

00:21:45.280 And I looked at myself and was just like, yeah, I'm willing to pay that price.

00:21:48.580 What did he say when he said, I'll get you a house right next door to live with us. 0.96

00:21:53.520 I'm going to give it to my daughter.

00:21:54.520 I don't understand.

00:21:55.220 You know the story well, my friend.

00:21:56.480 Is he trying to, like, keep her close?

00:21:58.760 Yes.

00:21:59.060 Like, don't get married yet.

00:22:00.520 Hang tight.

00:22:01.060 A thousand percent.

00:22:01.500 Why?

00:22:02.000 So, one, I just want to acknowledge that you've done your homework.

00:22:07.040 Very, very impressive.

00:22:08.020 You've got a good story.

00:22:08.560 Thank you.

00:22:09.360 So, yeah.

00:22:10.140 So, when I say to my father-in-law, hey, I want to marry your daughter. 0.71

00:22:13.280 He said, whoa, whoa, whoa.

00:22:14.680 Don't do that.

00:22:16.700 How are you going to take care of her?

00:22:18.240 How about this?

00:22:19.200 Instead of you guys get married, I'll give you the house. 0.99

00:22:21.620 He owned the house next door to his.

00:22:23.640 He said, that was always meant to be my daughter.

00:22:25.280 So, you guys can have it.

00:22:26.760 Move in.

00:22:27.400 Stay there.

00:22:27.740 Because in his mind, he's thinking, oh, in 18 months, these guys are done.

00:22:32.780 Keep her close.

00:22:33.940 I don't want her going to America. 0.98

00:22:35.480 Then it's in the, because this is all happening in London.

00:22:36.960 I lived in London for a year.

00:22:38.980 So, he's like, got to keep my daughter here.

00:22:41.220 Do not want her going to America with this loser.

00:22:43.260 Like, can't have it.

00:22:44.320 But, if I push back against this kid, she's just going to go for him harder. 1.00

00:22:48.160 So, he's smart.

00:22:48.820 He knows what's up.

00:22:49.360 Smart, brilliant.

00:22:49.940 So, he's like, hey, take the house.

00:22:51.660 He doesn't say you can sleep with her.

00:22:53.000 But that's basically the read between the lines.

00:22:55.060 Like, be in a relationship.

00:22:56.340 Be with her.

00:22:56.720 Live with her.

00:22:57.080 I don't care about that.

00:22:58.000 But don't marry her.

00:22:59.520 Don't take her to America. 0.56

00:23:01.420 And so, yeah, it was awesome.

00:23:03.420 And the thing is, he was always very welcoming to me.

00:23:06.180 Partly because he's smart.

00:23:07.680 And he knows if he pushes me away, then it's all over.

00:23:09.740 And partly because he's a freakishly kind man.

00:23:12.460 So, and he ends up becoming an incredible mentor.

00:23:14.720 I mean, just like a lot of amazing things came out of that relationship.

00:23:18.260 But the first one was just calling bullshit on where I was in life and not letting me hide behind ambition.

00:23:23.840 So, I had a chance to meet your wife.

00:23:25.100 I mean, obviously, her energy is unbelievable. 0.94

00:23:26.880 She can light up a room when she walks in. 0.95

00:23:28.400 She's got that kind of an energy. 0.99

00:23:30.480 And, you know, sometimes this question is asked.

00:23:33.420 But I'm thinking what you'll say to this is, say you guys don't meet.

00:23:36.840 Say you guys don't get married.

00:23:37.860 Say that doesn't happen.

00:23:39.400 How much of a role did she play? 1.00

00:23:41.100 I know you're talking about honesty, all that stuff.

00:23:42.800 And a lot of times you read, you'll say, you know, Michelle, you know, they'll say, Michelle Obama is so lucky to have been married to a president.

00:23:50.740 And, you know, that quote, she comes back and says, well, anybody I would have married would have become a president.

00:23:55.960 How much do you believe in that?

00:23:58.360 Yeah, I love that.

00:23:59.260 So, I'm just a huge believer in love and partnerships and all of that.

00:24:03.120 So, I like that my story is intertwined with my wife, who is an extraordinary human.

00:24:09.720 And I for sure would not be who I am today if it wasn't for her.

00:24:13.320 Now, would I have figured it out other ways?

00:24:15.500 Because I don't think you can ever let somebody own your story.

00:24:17.940 I think I'll take credit for the things that I did.

00:24:20.120 My wife could never make me take action.

00:24:22.140 She couldn't be there for me when I have to push harder or see something through.

00:24:25.640 But did I have a partner that when I was broken and on my knees that she got down with sympathy, put an arm around my shoulder and told me everything was going to be okay?

00:24:35.960 No, I didn't have that.

00:24:37.680 What I had was someone who picked me back up, brushed me off, reminded me of where I was going and who I could become and told me that she would do anything in her power to help me become that person.

00:24:49.840 Ultimately, I had to do the work.

00:24:51.440 But, like, you think you want sympathy when you're down.

00:24:55.140 But what you want is compassion.

00:24:56.880 You want love.

00:24:57.900 You want encouragement.

00:24:59.020 You want somebody who believes in you when you don't believe in you.

00:25:02.260 And she was, I have the chills on my face right now.

00:25:05.640 She believed in me at times when I was like, I don't know if I can do this.

00:25:09.360 Wow.

00:25:09.680 Yeah.

00:25:10.080 That's powerful.

00:25:11.100 And I like how you said that just being a cheerleader is not enough.

00:25:14.180 You've got to be more than just a cheerleader. 1.00

00:25:15.440 Cheerleader is, hey, go get him. 1.00

00:25:17.220 You're going to be great.

00:25:17.840 I believe in you that doesn't lead into results.

00:25:19.700 You've got to also identify what things you need to improve in.

00:25:21.800 So how does this transition into you copywriting and maybe you've got to be thinking bigger with, you know, your partners that you had.

00:25:28.160 How does that transition into that?

00:25:30.140 So my wife and I had tried to start our first business.

00:25:33.000 Well, we did start our first business.

00:25:34.240 And it made money.

00:25:35.420 But it made very little money.

00:25:36.980 It was a photography business.

00:25:39.020 And that gave me that entrepreneurial drive.

00:25:42.220 Like, I wanted to do it.

00:25:43.460 I had a little tinge of it when I was selling for prepaid legal.

00:25:46.260 And then really felt it when I was doing the photography.

00:25:49.660 But I just looked at the dollars and I'm like, this never goes anywhere.

00:25:52.620 I can never make enough money.

00:25:53.580 I didn't have the words to explain it, but it was because I was time for money.

00:25:57.200 And you can't break the wealth equation if you're dealing in time for money.

00:26:01.200 So I was like, all right, I want something more, but I don't know what that more is.

00:26:05.400 And then two of the people that came through and saw me speaking about filmmaking were these two entrepreneurs.

00:26:13.520 And they were the two things I'd always promised myself as a kid that I would have is that one day I would have six-pack abs and one day I would be rich.

00:26:22.500 Those were my two promises.

00:26:23.980 And that really guided my life in like a very sincere and intense way for a long time.

00:26:28.580 And they come across my path.

00:26:30.640 Not only are they wildly successful in business, but they're yoked.

00:26:34.660 And I was like, whoa.

00:26:36.020 So these guys are like, yo, we're going to work together someday.

00:26:38.320 And people would tell me that all the time.

00:26:40.080 And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:26:41.920 And not really believed it.

00:26:43.320 And they called and said, look, we're starting this new company.

00:26:46.600 And why don't you come be a copywriter?

00:26:48.400 We settle for employees, but we're always looking for partners.

00:26:51.960 And you can have any role in this company that you want.

00:26:54.620 You just have to become the right person for that role.

00:26:56.520 That's really their pitch.

00:26:58.560 Yeah.

00:26:59.020 And I saw them make that pitch to dozens of people.

00:27:01.520 Wow.

00:27:01.900 Dozens.

00:27:02.360 And nobody did anything with it.

00:27:04.000 And I was like, what the fuck?

00:27:05.140 Do people not see what they're offering?

00:27:06.840 And everyone was telling me, they're full of shit, dude.

00:27:10.320 Can you not see?

00:27:11.540 These guys are just trying to take advantage of you.

00:27:13.820 And I thought, even if they are, what do I have to lose exactly?

00:27:18.240 As long as my payroll checks are clearing and they're not doing anything unethical,

00:27:22.660 I don't quite understand the risk.

00:27:24.100 So everyone was like freaking out, telling me that I shouldn't do it.

00:27:28.160 And I was just like, oh, wow, this seems too, like, it's too self-evident to me that I

00:27:31.920 could always go back to teaching and that I might as well try this.

00:27:34.480 And if it sucks, then I'll go back.

00:27:36.080 So I did it, tried it.

00:27:38.820 They were amazing.

00:27:39.940 And true to their word, they were like, you can become anything you want.

00:27:43.020 Now, here's the bad news.

00:27:44.340 You're not yet the person you need to be.

00:27:45.860 And they were just cold-hearted about it.

00:27:47.420 Just like real direct.

00:27:48.820 Like, you suck at this, only an idiot would do that.

00:27:51.020 Like, they were so intense.

00:27:53.140 What's the age difference gap between you and them?

00:27:54.860 What are they, five years older than me?

00:27:56.560 Both of them.

00:27:57.160 Yeah.

00:27:58.200 So it was direct.

00:28:01.440 It was intense.

00:28:02.240 It was not for the faint of heart or for the delicate from the jump.

00:28:07.900 And for me, it was intoxicating.

00:28:09.540 And I fell for it.

00:28:10.960 And I was head over heels.

00:28:12.340 Like, it was so awesome.

00:28:14.320 And it was like, my whole life, if anybody had been like that to me, I would have shut

00:28:18.840 down because I didn't believe I could get better.

00:28:20.560 But by the time I meet them, I now believe I can get better.

00:28:23.220 So now I believe I can get better.

00:28:25.280 I'm working out in the gym.

00:28:26.380 So I see this, like, whoa, you can change your body.

00:28:28.720 I've lost all this weight.

00:28:29.820 Like, it's this crazy transformation.

00:28:31.380 So they come in, and they're like, dude, the little better you think you can get is the

00:28:36.100 tip of an iceberg.

00:28:36.920 You can radically transform your life.

00:28:39.320 And this is the playground to do it.

00:28:40.820 And you can get rich.

00:28:41.660 And they said, look, you're coming to the world with your handout right now.

00:28:44.380 And if you want to control the art, you have to control the resources.

00:28:48.080 So I was like, this is amazing.

00:28:49.980 And so I hear them make that pitch all day, every day to a bunch of people.

00:28:52.940 Nobody does anything with it.

00:28:54.220 I start as the kid in the server room.

00:28:55.940 Nobody knew who I was.

00:28:57.820 Everyone else in our office had floor-to-ceiling glass windows that looked at the Pacific Ocean.

00:29:02.660 I was the only one that didn't.

00:29:04.000 I was in a room with no real desk.

00:29:05.740 I just sat at one of the servers.

00:29:08.100 And no one knew it.

00:29:09.780 They didn't even introduce me around.

00:29:11.000 So people were just like, who's the kid?

00:29:13.420 And I was just like, I suck right now.

00:29:16.360 So I have to get better.

00:29:17.340 I've got to keep my head down and work my ass off and get good.

00:29:20.180 And I took that so seriously.

00:29:21.840 Like when I moved to, because at first I lived quite far from them.

00:29:25.380 And so I decided I was going to move closer.

00:29:27.260 And I timed the locations.

00:29:29.540 So I told my wife she could pick anywhere that I could get to their place in seven minutes or less. 0.98

00:29:34.900 And so we would go look at an apartment and then I would time it to their houses and see if I could get there fast enough.

00:29:40.400 And as long as I said, there's no headquarters?

00:29:42.600 I mean, is this...

00:29:43.340 At the time, that was less relevant to me than being able to, if they needed me at 2 a.m., could I show up on a, you know, in a moment's notice?

00:29:51.640 Are you already at 10% or you're not 10% yet?

00:29:53.980 No, Jesus.

00:29:54.600 That hasn't happened yet.

00:29:55.600 Just employed.

00:29:56.020 Okay, got it.

00:29:56.660 This is how I get to 10%.

00:29:58.040 And that's why, like, when people say, like, I don't want to intern or I want to make sure I'm getting paid what I'm worth, all that stuff.

00:30:05.920 It's like, if you're focused in the beginning of your career with monetizing your current skill set, you will never get where you want to go.

00:30:14.020 Because money only spends once unless you're really good at investing, which most young people are not.

00:30:18.360 Whereas skills monetize again and again and again and again.

00:30:21.560 Great point.

00:30:22.160 That's so powerful.

00:30:23.040 Can we say that one more time?

00:30:23.840 Yeah, money only monetizes once or you can only spend it once.

00:30:27.280 But your skills can be monetized over and over and over.

00:30:30.280 So I just thought, wait a second, what I need is skills.

00:30:33.840 These guys have f***ing skills.

00:30:35.500 I'm watching them do this.

00:30:36.680 They're giving me a seat at the table.

00:30:38.220 Such as what?

00:30:38.880 Can you kind of, because you talk about this.

00:30:39.880 They would let me on phone calls.

00:30:40.980 Why?

00:30:41.420 Why the f*** let me on these phone calls?

00:30:43.120 It was like, it doesn't make sense.

00:30:44.860 I had zero to contribute.

00:30:46.640 And I remember at the beginning, the, Patrick, the only words.

00:30:51.320 And I don't know if people think I'm exaggerating when I say this.

00:30:53.220 Because the only words that I would say on this conference call would be goodbye.

00:30:57.960 I would wait the entire call.

00:30:59.600 Here it comes.

00:31:00.200 I'm finally going to get my chance to speak.

00:31:02.060 And I'm not even sure why it meant something to me.

00:31:03.780 But to actually be able to utter syllables on like this official business call was so important to me.

00:31:08.380 And so I'd wait.

00:31:09.080 And I'm like, oh, we're wrapping up.

00:31:10.140 I can tell it's happening.

00:31:10.940 Here it goes.

00:31:11.780 Goodbye.

00:31:13.480 That was it.

00:31:14.540 But I f***ing took notes.

00:31:15.720 I paid attention.

00:31:16.760 I watched how they were.

00:31:17.940 I listened to how they did business.

00:31:19.100 I watched how they negotiated, what they pushed on, what they didn't, what the ethos was.

00:31:22.740 All of it.

00:31:23.580 And I just drank it in.

00:31:25.500 And then I thought, okay, wait a second.

00:31:26.980 I can be the energy of this stuff.

00:31:28.540 I may not be able to think of the ideas yet.

00:31:29.940 I don't understand business.

00:31:30.960 But I can be the energy.

00:31:32.140 So if somebody says, hey, by Thursday, we need to have this.

00:31:34.800 F***.

00:31:35.220 I've got that written down.

00:31:36.360 Hey, guys.

00:31:36.860 On Tuesday, remember, we've got to have that thing on Thursday.

00:31:38.540 Does anybody need help?

00:31:39.380 Anybody need anything?

00:31:40.180 Because I will do whatever you want me to do.

00:31:42.560 And so people would give me stuff and I would do it.

00:31:44.300 And as long as it was just like blunt force trauma and I didn't have to have some high-level business knowledge, I could get it done.

00:31:50.600 And I would do it with f***ing bells on.

00:31:52.400 They once gave me a list.

00:31:54.320 It was like 750,000 keywords.

00:31:57.220 And I had to comb through it in an Excel spreadsheet and say either yes or no.

00:32:01.880 That took days and days and days of mind-numbing yes, no, yes, no, yes, no, yes, no.

00:32:08.720 What do you mean 750,000 words?

00:32:10.440 So we had words that did we want to advertise on.

00:32:15.120 Do we want to advertise on these keywords?

00:32:16.500 So you would buy a list of powerful keywords on Google and this is all CPC stuff.

00:32:20.640 So do we want to show up on these keywords, yes or no?

00:32:23.560 Like here's our business, you know what we're doing, what keywords would we want to show up on?

00:32:28.480 And so I'd have to go and clean the list.

00:32:29.840 There's no way, no AI to comb through it for us.

00:32:32.380 So I would do that.

00:32:33.960 So anything like that where I could, I just add value, add value, add value.

00:32:37.960 And everyone starts gravitating towards a person who's always upbeat, great energy.

00:32:42.640 No doubt about it.

00:32:42.900 And never says no and is always asking how they can help.

00:32:46.460 It is a formula that will win for all time.

00:32:50.040 And so that was it.

00:32:50.880 And I just threw that intensity at it because every day I was like, I'm here to get rich.

00:32:55.060 I'm here to get rich.

00:32:56.420 And when I get rich, I'm going to go build my studio.

00:32:58.820 I'm going to get rich, rich, rich, rich, rich.

00:33:01.000 And that was all I thought about.

00:33:02.700 I obsessed over it.

00:33:03.660 Now that would end up being my almost downfall, but that was my obsession.

00:33:08.480 And so what happens next after that?

00:33:10.600 So for eight and a half years, I'm doing that.

00:33:13.600 I am working seven days a week, ignoring my wife.

00:33:16.000 At about the six and a half year mark, my wife pulls me aside and says, you're now damaging

00:33:19.280 our marriage and I'm not willing to continue like this.

00:33:22.680 So I was like, all right, something's got to give.

00:33:24.320 And that forced me to really look and say, I'm profoundly unhappy.

00:33:27.320 And showing up every day chasing money just isn't actually who I am.

00:33:31.080 And I need to do something that makes me feel alive in the moment.

00:33:34.660 So it ends up being a cool part of my story.

00:33:37.500 But what I want people to know is when the following thing happened, I was a wash in shame.

00:33:42.360 And so there I was, the guy going hard.

00:33:44.980 By this point, I've worked my way up now.

00:33:46.720 I'm the chief marketing officer of the company.

00:33:48.380 I own 10% of it, all just through sweat equity.

00:33:51.900 They made good on their promise.

00:33:53.060 And I was so broken inside and so unhappy that I was like, I have to leave.

00:34:01.140 I need to go back to filmmaking.

00:34:02.520 I need to do something that in and of itself, like I will love and be passionate about.

00:34:07.100 And what I realized was the struggle is guaranteed.

00:34:10.420 The success is not.

00:34:11.740 Now, at that time, I was a multimillionaire on paper.

00:34:14.880 But as you all know, being rich on paper is very different than having money in your bank account.

00:34:19.220 No doubt about it.

00:34:19.980 So I was rich on paper.

00:34:21.680 I did not feel rich.

00:34:23.000 And so I was like, what am I doing all of this for?

00:34:25.500 So my wife and I talk and I'm like, look, I know I promised I would make you rich.

00:34:29.200 And I swear to God, I will one day.

00:34:31.420 But I'm going to have to take a step backwards first because I can't just muscle through like this.

00:34:35.620 I'm just losing so many years of my life.

00:34:37.440 I need to do something that if I'm going to fail, at least I'm going to fail loving what I'm doing.

00:34:40.940 She was totally behind me.

00:34:42.200 She said what are now famous words in our marriage.

00:34:44.540 She said, I bet on you.

00:34:46.460 I was like, that means a lot.

00:34:48.060 So I go in and I quit.

00:34:50.200 And I said, look, here's your equity back.

00:34:52.500 I'm not going to cross the finish line.

00:34:54.000 So I don't think I should get anything for this.

00:34:55.880 So, you know, take it and do your thing.

00:34:59.060 And I'm going to go to Greece.

00:35:01.800 We were going to move to Greece.

00:35:03.140 And I'm going to write.

00:35:04.260 And that's that.

00:35:05.120 And they said, look, we could do this without you, but we don't want to.

00:35:09.160 And so what would it take for us to keep working together?

00:35:11.160 And I laid out a plan of if whatever I'm going to be doing next, it's got to be around value creation.

00:35:17.700 It's got to be around passion.

00:35:19.400 It's got to be something that we would love every day, even if we were failing.

00:35:22.620 I want to build community.

00:35:23.960 I want to be myself.

00:35:25.320 And I said, look, this thing that we now call social media wasn't called that back then.

00:35:28.720 But social media, I think it's going to change everything.

00:35:31.660 What year is that?

00:35:32.300 This is 2009.

00:35:35.100 Okay.

00:35:35.320 So I'm like, I think this is going to change everything, going to change the way that people do business.

00:35:39.740 And actually, this probably was a little bit earlier than that.

00:35:43.340 So the next company, I want to be transparent.

00:35:46.080 I want our real personalities to shine through.

00:35:49.100 I want people to see that we actually want good things for them.

00:35:51.820 And so that, for three very different reasons, became the core of what we wanted to do.

00:35:56.780 And so we founded Quest Nutrition.

00:35:58.420 Everyone told us we were crazy, that we were leaving technology, like the place where people actually get rich.

00:36:03.620 And going into food, the place where you're in manufacturing, it's going to be small margins.

00:36:08.900 You guys are never going to survive this.

00:36:10.820 And so everyone thought we were dumb.

00:36:12.260 But our thing was, we're never going to make decisions based on profitability again.

00:36:15.560 We're going to be making it based on actually adding value to people's lives, being passionate about what we do every day, and loving our lives.

00:36:21.880 And so we actually made a promise to each of us.

00:36:23.900 And we said, you're going to enjoy what you do on a day-to-day basis, simple as.

00:36:27.860 And so if it's something weird, like when I started doing Inside Quest, fine.

00:36:33.620 Like even if it's not, like we don't see the immediate ROI in the business, if you love it and that's a part of what's making you a complete and full human being, then let's do it.

00:36:41.480 And so we got into really crazy stuff, but ended up being amazing because we made that promise to each other.

00:36:47.360 So that was how all of that began.

00:36:49.760 And then we just really lived up to it about value creation, about not just trying to sell people on something, about building a real community to uplift people.

00:36:57.300 And it just so happened that we had the right product at the right time marketed in a totally new way.

00:37:02.500 Because of my background in film, we were creating all of our own content in-house.

00:37:05.720 We built an entire studio inside the company.

00:37:08.560 We were shooting everything long before that was like a thing.

00:37:11.640 It was like we were doing that.

00:37:13.480 And everyone was like, this is crazy.

00:37:15.260 But then we grow by 57,000% in our first three years alone in manufacturing.

00:37:20.920 That's nuts.

00:37:22.000 Let me tell you, that is absolutely nuts what you guys did.

00:37:25.040 You know, Blue Ocean Strategy.

00:37:26.500 So a lot of time when you look at Blue Ocean Strategy, you say, wait a minute, who doesn't have a bar?

00:37:30.540 Everybody's got a bar.

00:37:31.780 You know, this bar, that bar.

00:37:33.040 And you know all of them.

00:37:33.860 When you chew on them, they either taste terrible, a high protein, or they stick to your T.

00:37:38.860 You know which ones I'm talking about?

00:37:39.860 You got to like really have jaw muscles to separate them.

00:37:43.020 And then you guys come out and you do what you do with it.

00:37:45.540 You know, but the questions I want to ask you is, all this is taking place.

00:37:49.540 Inside Quest, when did you start creating content with Inside Quest?

00:37:53.000 What year was that?

00:37:53.620 Inside Quest is a lot later in the journey.

00:38:00.960 So that was probably 2014, 2015.

00:38:04.000 So then when did you go Impact Theory?

00:38:05.720 So Impact Theory came in 2016.

00:38:08.640 So we did a year and a half of Inside Quest.

00:38:11.360 And then I spun it out as a standalone company for Impact Theory in 2016.

00:38:15.840 Also, there is not two YouTube channels, Inside Quest and Impact Theory.

00:38:18.860 No, no, no.

00:38:19.000 Inside Quest became Impact.

00:38:20.980 Like we changed it from Patrick Bay David to Value Attainment.

00:38:23.040 You went from Inside Quest to I got it.

00:38:25.400 And then you said, hey, I'm going to run this.

00:38:27.020 And you guys go out there and do what you're doing.

00:38:29.220 And then you stepped away.

00:38:31.160 So the questions I got that I really wanted to get into is personality-wise.

00:38:35.780 You know, as I listen to a lot of the stuff you say, you know, as a kid, my son.

00:38:41.460 My son says, I said, what do you want to be when you grow up?

00:38:43.540 I want to be Peter Parker.

00:38:45.440 Okay, awesome.

00:38:46.980 You know, what do you want to be when you grow up?

00:38:48.580 I want to be this.

00:38:49.340 I want to be that.

00:38:51.020 You cannot help yourself but talk about Matrix, right?

00:38:54.820 And you can't help yourself but talk about Star Wars.

00:38:57.900 And when you and I spoke at your house, you're like, yeah, you know, we're competing against,

00:39:01.120 we're going to build a media company, go against Walt Disney and all this other stuff.

00:39:04.840 And, you know, we're already creating comic books and stories.

00:39:08.700 And we're going to do it.

00:39:09.260 Oh, your mind is already going there.

00:39:10.540 And then when I look at your partner, Ron Pena, he says, when you ask him, what was a special event in March of 1984?

00:39:18.140 Oh, I went into martial arts.

00:39:19.540 Why?

00:39:19.820 Because I wanted to be a ninja.

00:39:21.040 But then also, he wanted to be Batman.

00:39:22.320 Like, he's got this one picture doing the splits.

00:39:23.840 He looks like Batman and Jean-Claude Van Damme combined.

00:39:26.140 And then you got your partner, Mike Osborne, who is the Iowa, you know, the whole farm boy, all that stuff that he has.

00:39:33.000 Did you guys all kind of get along where Secretly is like, listen, man, I want to be Batman.

00:39:37.860 I want to be this.

00:39:39.280 And I want to be that.

00:39:40.220 But, like, did it almost became okay to talk this crazy language that to the world is like, you guys are corny and crazy.

00:39:46.460 You're full of it.

00:39:47.380 Like, was there that level of connection?

00:39:49.860 That's almost what it seems like when I watch you guys.

00:39:52.360 Yeah, I won't throw Mike under the bus.

00:39:54.600 That was definitely not his MO.

00:39:57.240 He was not into that stuff.

00:39:58.520 But, yeah, one of the first things Ron and I bonded over was comics and our love of Batman.

00:40:02.560 So, my dog was actually named Batman when I met Ron.

00:40:06.100 You're serious.

00:40:06.720 Yeah.

00:40:07.440 And I had been collecting comics since I was 16.

00:40:09.460 I love that.

00:40:10.280 So, and part of the reason that people gravitate towards Batman is because he doesn't have superpowers, right?

00:40:15.120 So, and the fascinating thing about the comic industry is if you were actually in it, it grew with the readers.

00:40:23.560 So, they became very adult.

00:40:25.420 Like, if you read Batman now, unless you're reading, like, one of the ones aimed at kids, it's dark shit, man.

00:40:30.460 Like, they're really dealing with, like, loss and obsession and growth and, like, how much you're capable of and how much you have to hold yourself accountable.

00:40:38.480 Like, Batman is, for growth mindset of people, is the story.

00:40:43.700 You still read?

00:40:44.620 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:40:45.540 Really?

00:40:45.980 You still read?

00:40:46.500 Of course.

00:40:47.000 Like, how often?

00:40:48.100 I try to read.

00:40:50.120 My fantasy would be to read every day.

00:40:52.120 I try to read every week.

00:40:53.700 That's crazy.

00:40:54.320 But, like, even now, in my bag, I was reading on the plane.

00:40:56.700 I'm reading a story called I Am a Hero.

00:40:59.780 But it's very adult.

00:41:01.260 It's a zombie apocalypse, but, I mean, whatever.

00:41:03.260 I'm a baseball card guy.

00:41:04.180 Now, do you have any original, like, Superman 1?

00:41:06.180 You can't afford any of this stuff.

00:41:07.440 I have, like, the...

00:41:07.940 What do you have?

00:41:08.580 What are special comic books you got?

00:41:09.280 I have some big stuff from the 90s.

00:41:11.080 Okay, got it.

00:41:11.580 But the problem was that in the 90s, so much of it was made.

00:41:15.260 There was this huge speculation boom.

00:41:17.000 So, it's like, you may have something that's, like, a big cultural moment, but it's one of a million.

00:41:21.200 That's right.

00:41:21.860 Whereas now, like, there really is rare stuff, where there may have only been 2,500 printed, period.

00:41:28.160 You have no desire to own that kind of stuff.

00:41:29.920 Collecting it isn't the juice.

00:41:32.200 Got it.

00:41:32.320 It's the...

00:41:33.580 Story.

00:41:33.800 Yeah, I really believe that the way that humans assimilate truly disruptive information is through narrative.

00:41:38.080 And so, part of the way that I've changed my life, that I've opened my mind to things like a growth mindset, is through, like, The Matrix.

00:41:44.860 It's not a mistake that The Matrix came out the year that I was going through this, like, am I able to improve myself or not?

00:41:52.100 The movie comes out, ends up becoming the dominant metaphor of my life.

00:41:54.980 I'd love to say that it was a lightning rod moment when I saw it.

00:41:57.800 My life has changed forever.

00:41:58.660 It wasn't like that.

00:41:59.640 But it planted a seed that I just kept coming back to.

00:42:02.240 Oh, man, it's like Neo and The Matrix.

00:42:03.500 Oh, man.

00:42:04.140 Like, yeah, like Morpheus said.

00:42:06.020 You take the blue pill.

00:42:08.080 The story ends.

00:42:09.900 You wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe.

00:42:13.140 You take the red pill.

00:42:14.980 You stay in Wonderland.

00:42:17.260 And I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.

00:42:22.100 Or, like Yoda in Star Wars, and you just start piecing together, like, these fascinating belief systems.

00:42:27.880 Because a lot of times, the wisest characters in films are often taken from, like, Yoda sounds exactly like Lao Tzu from The Doubtist Ying.

00:42:35.700 So, it's like, basically, you've got George Lucas, who's very familiar with Eastern philosophy, talking Eastern philosophy through this little puppet.

00:42:43.700 But especially if you hear it when you're young, man, like, your mind is really open to it.

00:42:48.860 So, because of Star Wars, I ended up becoming obsessed with the Doubtist Ying. 1.00

00:42:53.700 And then because of that, that ultimately was my doorway to a growth mindset.

00:42:57.680 And then Neo and all of that.

00:42:59.400 So, the connection was there with you and Ron was with this area.

00:43:01.940 Growth mindset, for sure.

00:43:04.320 And then comics and Batman and an obsession over that rapid-style storytelling where you can explore ideas very, very quickly.

00:43:10.480 I mean, he says he wanted to be Batman.

00:43:11.960 Very quick.

00:43:13.360 Would he still say that?

00:43:14.460 I don't know if he'd still say it.

00:43:15.260 But he was sincere.

00:43:16.900 Like, obviously, the ethos of Batman.

00:43:20.560 So, not necessarily as a caped crusader.

00:43:23.820 He talks like Batman, by the way.

00:43:25.200 He sits like this.

00:43:27.080 He's got the jaw.

00:43:28.200 He talks like a very proper guy.

00:43:31.020 But in your teens, what movie impacted your life the most?

00:43:34.500 Give me each decade.

00:43:35.680 What would have been?

00:43:36.880 Well, Star Wars would have been, when I was young, would have been the main driver.

00:43:40.980 Then the next one that really had a big influence on me as a person would have been The Matrix.

00:43:48.640 So, I went from, okay, Star Wars is like my big thing.

00:43:52.120 Then The Matrix.

00:43:52.780 And now, it's like The Matrix is still probably the biggest.

00:43:57.760 But, you know, there have been a lot of films that have shown me something like Ordinary People.

00:44:01.940 I don't know if you've ever seen that.

00:44:02.980 But, like, seeing how people trap themselves in a poor mindset.

00:44:08.420 Like, that movie to me was so heartbreaking because the mom just cannot get out of her own way. 0.67

00:44:13.040 So, there have been a lot of movies that have, like, given me some little piece.

00:44:16.000 But even, like, a movie like Kramer vs. Kramer or Goonies.

00:44:20.040 Karate Kid.

00:44:20.880 Oh, my God.

00:44:21.540 I should have led with that.

00:44:22.780 Karate Kid was wildly influential in terms of, again, getting picked on, not liking the way people are treating you, meeting somebody who can mentor you, that gives you some, you know, wise advice.

00:44:32.080 But then you actually have to do it.

00:44:34.200 And then I actually had a wax on, wax off moment in my life.

00:44:37.160 This is crazy.

00:44:38.360 So, for those that haven't seen the movie, Mr. Miyagi's training Daniel.

00:44:42.160 And Daniel's doing what ends up feeling to Daniel like housework.

00:44:46.420 You know, waxing cars, painting fences.

00:44:48.540 And he's like, why am I doing all this?

00:44:50.460 And Mr. Miyagi finally reveals to him that what he's been training are the motions for some amazing defenses.

00:44:56.000 Show me wax on, wax off.

00:45:00.900 Yes!

00:45:02.300 Yes!

00:45:03.620 Yes!

00:45:04.800 Yes!

00:45:05.300 Yes!

00:45:06.300 Show me paint defense. 0.57

00:45:08.900 Pants!

00:45:10.180 Pants!

00:45:11.400 Yes!

00:45:11.900 Yes!

00:45:11.960 And in my own life, my dad always made me work.

00:45:15.980 And so, through the summers, I would always have summer jobs from the time I was 12.

00:45:19.700 And I worked in a door factory, paint factory, paint store, paint warehouse.

00:45:23.240 I mean, just like the worst jobs you can imagine for a young teenager.

00:45:26.940 And my dad always said, like, this is going to pay off one day.

00:45:29.980 And I thought, yeah, yeah, yeah, here we go.

00:45:31.700 And so, imagine we're at Quest.

00:45:34.720 And we've ordered all this equipment.

00:45:36.680 And the equipment shows up in a big tractor trailer.

00:45:40.820 And they back up, we open the door, and there's this massive equipment.

00:45:44.280 And we realize, how the hell are we supposed to get this off the truck?

00:45:48.440 We don't have a forklift.

00:45:50.320 And even if we did, no one knows how to drive it.

00:45:52.980 And I was like, actually, guys, our neighbor has a forklift, and I'm a certified forklift driver.

00:45:59.360 And everyone turns to me, and they're like, what?

00:46:01.880 Why are you a certified forklift driver?

00:46:03.660 And I was like, my dad always made me work in these stupid places, and he told me that one day it would pay off.

00:46:07.580 So, on camera, Ron starts filming, and I turn to the camera.

00:46:10.960 As I'm on the forklift, and I'm raising it up, and I'm like,

00:46:14.240 Dad, wax on, wax off.

00:46:16.260 Wow.

00:46:16.480 It was fucking crazy.

00:46:17.280 What a story.

00:46:18.040 But the fascinating thing to me is that the movie gave me the language and the framework to understand it,

00:46:22.680 to assimilate that motion or that moment, and now be able to give it to somebody else.

00:46:26.940 But you need that package.

00:46:28.360 You need the narrative.

00:46:29.360 You need that moment, something that hit you on an emotional level, for you to make sense of it.

00:46:33.720 So that's the problem.

00:46:34.420 I could have had that same experience and not put two and two together.

00:46:37.100 It doesn't become part of my ideology.

00:46:38.560 I'm not able to tell somebody else.

00:46:40.220 I'm not even necessarily able to use it again in my own life because I have to relearn it every time.

00:46:44.740 But a film, a story, it gives you that construct so you can hold the notion in your head.

00:46:50.140 That's amazing, that story you got there.

00:46:52.060 By the way, your partners, three of you guys together, obviously having a business partner is difficult by itself.

00:46:59.020 But you're talking three of you.

00:47:00.940 So what I'd be, and by the way, were you guys all evenly split?

00:47:03.720 I read a few plays.

00:47:05.060 You guys were 33, 33.

00:47:06.200 Was anybody 34?

00:47:07.080 Did you guys give one to charity?

00:47:08.220 No, no, no, no, no.

00:47:08.860 How'd you guys do the split?

00:47:09.960 Was it literally split, split amongst everybody?

00:47:12.340 Okay.

00:47:13.000 You were CMO.

00:47:14.600 Were you CMO?

00:47:15.540 I was president, but I oversaw marketing and sales.

00:47:19.200 Okay.

00:47:19.580 So who was COO?

00:47:20.780 Would you say Mike is COO?

00:47:21.800 Mike was COO.

00:47:22.720 We kind of played with the titles because Mike for sure is an operations guy and I'm for sure not.

00:47:28.800 I'm the people person.

00:47:29.880 But we just wanted to make sure that everybody had a title that made sense for equal partnership.

00:47:34.300 It almost looked like you guys didn't want to give any titles.

00:47:37.180 Is that a fair assessment?

00:47:38.380 We didn't for years.

00:47:40.000 Okay.

00:47:40.360 So you guys have beef.

00:47:42.800 Okay.

00:47:43.240 You have issue.

00:47:44.000 For instance, you're going to have stuff that happens, right?

00:47:46.780 Was there ever, so from observation, everybody is in shape, everybody is disciplined.

00:47:50.580 So did you guys ever have a conversation about pulling your weight?

00:47:53.020 We never had to because that was one thing that we would never need the conversation.

00:47:59.600 You're not pulling your weight.

00:48:00.780 But we would definitely have conversations, you're wrong.

00:48:03.920 You're going in the wrong direction or whatever.

00:48:06.240 But yeah, no, with those two guys, and I'll definitely throw myself in the mix, like not working hard enough.

00:48:11.980 Did it ever get super, super heated to the point where this is not going to work out?

00:48:16.400 It was definitely one time where it got so heated.

00:48:18.280 I was like, are we actually about to throw punches?

00:48:20.480 But that was rare enough that we could still be functional.

00:48:24.420 But it was, look, it was high intensity.

00:48:26.180 You definitely have guys that aren't there to play around.

00:48:28.960 But at the end of the day, there was so much respect.

00:48:31.720 So much respect and a real desire to win.

00:48:36.040 And when you've got winners on your team, the last thing you want to do is let any sort of pettiness get in the way.

00:48:42.500 So we would actually have conversations about our emotions.

00:48:45.000 Like, hey, when you did that, it made me feel this way.

00:48:47.280 Really?

00:48:47.520 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:48:48.240 All of you?

00:48:48.960 Yeah.

00:48:49.940 Yeah.

00:48:50.340 Did you guys have a code together?

00:48:52.180 Like, did you guys have something like a code of honor?

00:48:54.480 Yeah, I mean, not stated or anything like that.

00:48:57.080 But yeah, it was like, look, we're going to be f***ing diehard.

00:49:00.140 We're going to do anything within our code of ethics to make this company successful.

00:49:03.800 We're going to also support each other.

00:49:05.220 We're going to look for ways to help each other shine.

00:49:07.520 We're not going to, like, backstab.

00:49:09.080 Like, we were so cognizant that internecine battles are ultimately the thing that bring you down.

00:49:14.200 We were very cognizant that pairing up is a problem.

00:49:17.040 So if two of us are really close, because, I mean, we were together for 14 years.

00:49:20.780 So over that time, it's like inevitably, oh, one time you're feeling close to one person.

00:49:24.640 The other, you're feeling closer to the other person.

00:49:26.360 So it's like you have to talk openly and say things like, hey, remember, coupling is one of the most dangerous things that we could face in a triumvirate.

00:49:33.440 So we have to be very careful not to let that happen.

00:49:35.860 Making sure that we're talking about emotions.

00:49:37.580 That if something upset you, that you put it out on the table.

00:49:39.700 That you talk about it.

00:49:40.860 And that we make sure that we're very open and honest and direct.

00:49:44.580 And I'll say that it became hard for other people because we were so direct with each other and so comfortable in that directness that if you then were direct like that with somebody else, in a way that you loved because it was so clear, people felt like you were being, like, cold or whatever.

00:50:02.540 Like, just to give you an idea, if we wanted one of the other people to come to us, efficiency was one of our highest values.

00:50:09.720 So you would just get a text that would say, come.

00:50:11.460 And it wasn't, hey, can you please come to the office, whatever.

00:50:16.000 You would just get a text, come.

00:50:17.580 And so whoever sent it, that meant go to their office.

00:50:19.660 But you would send the same text.

00:50:20.940 Like, you didn't think about it.

00:50:21.840 But we had that kind of just ultra direct, everything is efficient.

00:50:26.800 Now, they had known each other since 1989.

00:50:28.840 You came in the picture early, right?

00:50:30.320 Because they went to Craig University.

00:50:31.000 I came in the picture late.

00:50:32.320 Right.

00:50:32.620 No, I'm sorry.

00:50:33.140 You came in the picture late.

00:50:34.040 My apologies.

00:50:34.680 Yeah, I meant to say late.

00:50:36.040 So if you had to do it again, or I guess this is the question, because a lot of people ask and say partnership, partnership, partnership.

00:50:42.640 Do you see a benefit more in three than two?

00:50:45.300 Because no matter when there's a two, one unites.

00:50:47.440 Or do you see benefit in two over three?

00:50:49.460 Or solo?

00:50:50.380 I don't think there's any way to answer that question in the generic.

00:50:53.760 So let me walk through the advantages and disadvantages of each.

00:50:56.240 So as a solopreneur, you will have the most fun.

00:51:00.280 But I think your likelihood of going out of business is the highest because you don't have anybody checking you.

00:51:05.240 So because it is very hard, I know because I try every single day, it is very hard to get your employees to challenge you, especially openly.

00:51:13.960 So that means you're not getting all the good ideas.

00:51:16.040 And there's no universe in which you have all the good ideas.

00:51:18.780 I don't care how smart you are.

00:51:19.780 So when there's no one who's your equal, it gets really hard to make sure that you have total clarity and that when you're acting in a way that does not behoove the company, that somebody feels completely comfortable saying, that's not working.

00:51:33.740 And when you don't have that, that's dangerous.

00:51:36.060 But having a vision and just being able to execute and not have to convince people is fun.

00:51:41.360 And if you're right, then, hey, it's great.

00:51:43.720 I think that's probably also where the it's lonely at the top phrase comes from.

00:51:47.380 Now, because I've never been alone at the top, for me, like that, there's no ring of truth to that.

00:51:52.700 So I've always had partners.

00:51:54.420 Now, when I had three partners, it was really complicated.

00:51:58.260 And trying to make sure that you're both doing what's right for the company and doing something that makes everybody feel good.

00:52:05.040 And then if you have different, like parents that are of different religions, on those areas where you have a collision of values, that's problematic.

00:52:13.600 Because your likelihood of convincing somebody to change their mind is good.

00:52:17.640 Your likelihood of convincing to change someone's values is virtually zero.

00:52:21.780 Like it is so deeply ingrained in who they are, they mistake it for the truth of the world.

00:52:26.320 Right.

00:52:26.420 So it's like, I don't mean it in a religious context, but when you start thinking about religious values, you get how entrenched people become.

00:52:34.960 So take two parents that have different religions and they want to raise their kid. 0.87

00:52:38.520 To them, the stakes are high.

00:52:39.580 The stakes may be this child will go to hell if they're not raised in the way that I want.

00:52:44.040 You have two people thinking the same thing.

00:52:46.040 So you can definitely run into that in business where you get the like, if we do what you're saying, we're going to lose the business.

00:52:51.640 And they're thinking, if we do what you say, we're going to lose the business.

00:52:53.980 Right.

00:52:54.160 Now you have a collision of values.

00:52:55.440 That's hard.

00:52:56.580 And so navigating your way through that is very, very difficult.

00:52:59.360 But when you have three people that hold each other in very high esteem, that have an insane degree of trust, that have been in the trenches for a long time, you've seen them at their most vulnerable and they still show up for you.

00:53:11.880 Like when you have that kind of history, then it's really extraordinary.

00:53:16.460 But if you don't have that history, so finding a partner that you're going to make an equal partner right from the jump is tough.

00:53:22.440 Now, a partnership of two, you can get into a deadlock.

00:53:25.760 And so at least when there's three, there's a third person to be like, yo, I'm with this person on this.

00:53:30.380 And so there's always somebody to break the tie.

00:53:32.680 It's there's never like, well, how about this?

00:53:35.220 We were never in a situation where we were in a three way deadlock.

00:53:38.620 So it was just far too easy.

00:53:40.300 One person knew this was either close enough to what I want anywhere, whatever.

00:53:43.500 I'm just going to go with that and vote.

00:53:45.300 So somebody was always getting outvoted.

00:53:47.000 You just knew from time to time you're going to get outvoted.

00:53:49.020 And this may be the key.

00:53:50.280 As long as everybody actually wants their other two partners to win, it works.

00:53:54.080 So if I always want my way to be right and I don't give a shit about you or your feelings, then it's going to be bad.

00:53:59.040 And you and I are going to have animosity.

00:54:00.660 But if I actually want you to win, and so I'm like, I think I'm right this time.

00:54:04.000 But I know what it's like to always have someone else's idea win and I never get to see if my idea works.

00:54:09.880 So even though I think I'm right, I'm going to disagree, but I'm going to commit to your idea.

00:54:13.920 And that whole disagree, but commit was a big thing.

00:54:16.300 Disagree, but commit.

00:54:17.440 I disagree, but commit.

00:54:18.280 Like, when we walk out this door, no one will be able to tell which one of us disagreed because we will be so diehard about it.

00:54:25.060 I love that.

00:54:25.680 So that was a real thing.

00:54:27.300 I love that.

00:54:28.140 So now my partnership is with my wife.

00:54:30.960 And when we created the company.

00:54:32.600 Impact Theory.

00:54:33.080 Impact Theory.

00:54:33.340 Just the two of you owners.

00:54:33.920 Just the two of us.

00:54:34.280 No one else.

00:54:34.860 Nothing.

00:54:35.320 Any plans of bringing anybody in?

00:54:36.700 All of our employees have basically phantom shares.

00:54:40.500 So they have ownership.

00:54:41.480 If we sold, they'd get a piece, but they don't vote or anything like that.

00:54:44.120 Okay.

00:54:44.700 So no, I would be shocked if we did that.

00:54:47.800 I won't never say never, but I'd be surprised.

00:54:50.040 And when we created it, I told the lawyer, create the ultimate divorce nightmare.

00:54:53.780 And my wife was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. 1.00

00:54:55.420 You take 51.

00:54:56.520 I'll take 49.

00:54:57.540 Like, there's no need to do that.

00:54:58.920 The lawyers are like, listen to her.

00:55:00.840 You take 51.

00:55:01.760 She takes 49.

00:55:02.440 It just makes things clear, Tom.

00:55:04.320 And I said, no.

00:55:06.560 50-50.

00:55:07.860 Because A, my marriage is my highest priority.

00:55:10.780 The business comes a distant second.

00:55:12.040 And two, if I say to her, we're equals in every way, but I don't trust you quite enough

00:55:19.480 to give you equal percentage, even though she agrees, it sends a signal to her that

00:55:24.480 there's, I'm hedging my bets.

00:55:26.640 And the reality is I know what that does to people psychologically.

00:55:28.980 So, and that's the exact reason at Quest that we were 33 and a third each.

00:55:34.820 Just, there's, you don't get any benefit by making it different and you get massive

00:55:40.780 dissent when it's off.

00:55:42.240 So, when you guys have a conflict and you're trying to make a decision, was it Tom's the

00:55:46.360 final decision maker?

00:55:47.480 Oh, no, no, no.

00:55:47.860 It was two out of three?

00:55:49.400 Yeah, yeah.

00:55:49.780 So, majority.

00:55:50.380 Yeah, yeah.

00:55:50.800 Oh, very simple.

00:55:51.700 So, it's easy.

00:55:52.340 So, hey, two out of three.

00:55:52.980 Good, let's go with it.

00:55:53.740 I disagree, but we got two out of three.

00:55:55.660 And it was a lot more interpersonal than that.

00:55:58.520 That was sort of the truth of it, but we really did, like, there was such a deep brotherhood

00:56:03.460 that that was a real presence in all of this.

00:56:07.000 It was like, you're really talking through it.

00:56:08.760 You're being sensitive to how the other person feels.

00:56:11.220 So, you're being strategic.

00:56:12.380 There's no question.

00:56:13.060 Like, you have to think of the business.

00:56:14.280 But we were always trying to walk that line of, like, I don't want to hurt you.

00:56:18.420 I don't want to, like, piss you off.

00:56:20.340 Like, it's not about that.

00:56:21.420 I'll push you if I have to.

00:56:22.600 No question.

00:56:23.240 And if you get upset, even though that's not my intent, that's going to happen from

00:56:27.260 time to time.

00:56:27.800 We all have to be big boys and f***ing deal with it.

00:56:29.600 And also, you have to learn to let go and recenter yourself and not be emotional.

00:56:33.020 And so, we weren't spiteful.

00:56:34.140 So, it's like, it's really f***ing complicated.

00:56:36.640 And that's why it wouldn't work for everyone.

00:56:39.180 But we did it for a very long time.

00:56:41.260 That's very impressive.

00:56:42.380 I got to tell you.

00:56:43.020 To all three, obviously, to me, it seems like Mike's the easiest personality.

00:56:47.320 That's what it seemed like.

00:56:48.900 You know, a simple guy came up.

00:56:50.520 He didn't see a lot of stuff.

00:56:51.320 He seems like a very simple guy.

00:56:52.320 But going back to the whole question about partnership, are you still fully involved

00:56:56.960 or not at all?

00:56:57.700 Like, you are no board responsibility, like any sort of responsibility?

00:57:01.840 No.

00:57:01.980 I have massive ownership, but I have no day-to-day responsibility.

00:57:05.980 Zero.

00:57:06.180 I just like when I exited the first time and I said, hey, here's your equity back.

00:57:11.800 This time, I said, look, I can't expect to know what's right for the company if I'm off

00:57:16.560 running this other company.

00:57:17.960 So, I'm going to acknowledge that it doesn't make sense for me to hold a board seat.

00:57:21.880 So, I'm going to give up the board seat.

00:57:23.760 Really?

00:57:23.980 Knowing, when I left, I thought, it is entirely possible that I never see another dime from

00:57:28.920 this company because they could run it into the ground without me.

00:57:30.840 That's entirely possible.

00:57:32.480 So, my thing was...

00:57:33.200 So, you still have a lot of paper wealth.

00:57:34.820 Yeah.

00:57:35.760 Oh, yeah.

00:57:36.500 And you're okay with not having any...

00:57:38.400 I've made so much real bank account wealth that if I never make another dollar, I'll still

00:57:44.580 never have to work again.

00:57:45.420 Interesting to say.

00:57:46.180 So, that to me, like, at some point, you're so rich, the only thing that matters is time.

00:57:52.260 And all of this, the whole journey was I wanted to be a filmmaker and I only got in business

00:57:58.440 to get rich so I could go make movies.

00:58:00.300 So, it didn't make sense to me.

00:58:03.120 And I stayed for, like, two years after we had a liquidation event.

00:58:07.700 And I was like, I never have to work again.

00:58:09.860 I never have to do anything I don't want.

00:58:11.340 I could start making movies today.

00:58:13.700 Multi-eight-figure check type of a deal.

00:58:15.880 Yes.

00:58:16.320 Okay, good.

00:58:17.400 So, are you from the mindset of Enzo and Walt Disney where they say, you know, we don't

00:58:24.000 make movies to make money or we don't make cars to make money.

00:58:26.660 We make money to race cars or we make money to make...

00:58:30.540 Is that kind of your mindset as well?

00:58:31.800 Sort of.

00:58:32.220 If you'll swap that out for I'm making...

00:58:36.180 I'm telling stories is the truest way to say it as a way to pull people out of the matrix

00:58:40.940 by giving them an empowering mindset.

00:58:43.120 Because I really believe the only way to reach the masses is on an emotional level.

00:58:48.060 I'm not good at music.

00:58:48.880 So, that leaves film and television, essentially.

00:58:52.120 That's great.

00:58:53.420 So, when you and I were speaking, I asked you a question about kids.

00:58:57.500 And we had an interesting conversation about kids.

00:59:00.320 And I have a lot of respect on how you guys came with your decision.

00:59:04.460 And by the way, I actually recommend the way you made your decision to some people.

00:59:09.060 Because I think some people make the decision based on what everybody else is doing.

00:59:12.480 You guys didn't.

00:59:13.680 You know, so you told me that at one point you and your wife said, we don't want to have

00:59:18.140 kids and we're totally okay with that.

00:59:19.600 How did you process that together?

00:59:21.280 So, when we met, we both just assumed we were going to have kids.

00:59:25.300 That seemed pretty obvious to me.

00:59:27.080 I really enjoy that kind of relationship.

00:59:30.120 Being a mentor is something that's, you know, pretty powerful.

00:59:32.880 And to do it with your own child seems pretty extraordinary.

00:59:35.000 I was a big brother for eight and a half years for one kid.

00:59:37.600 So, when I say that I got to know him, so much so that he was unfortunately being abused

00:59:43.760 at home.

00:59:44.240 And so, he was removed from his home.

00:59:45.380 And I was made the guardian to help him into the court system.

00:59:47.900 Like, that's how close we were.

00:59:49.680 And so, I get it, man.

00:59:51.160 And I get how beautiful and powerful that kind of relationship is.

00:59:54.920 But the reality is being a parent to me is about fulfillment.

01:00:01.000 It's about doing something so beautiful that it gives you something that you could not have

01:00:05.580 gotten any other way, which I'll shorthand to fulfillment.

01:00:07.500 And I think it is an extraordinary path to fulfillment for a large swath of the population.

01:00:12.960 But it also changes the course of your life without question.

01:00:16.860 And I was asking people all the time when I really was like, we're sort of getting into

01:00:21.060 the do or die years.

01:00:22.140 I would ask everyone I could, should I have kids or not have kids?

01:00:25.680 And I just wanted to get their wisdom.

01:00:27.120 And this one guy gave me advice.

01:00:29.720 He said, Tom, have kids.

01:00:31.760 Don't have kids.

01:00:32.680 It doesn't matter.

01:00:33.840 But whatever you do, do it all the way.

01:00:36.440 And I said to him, that's the best piece of advice I'm ever going to get.

01:00:39.820 I'm going to remember that for a very long time.

01:00:41.620 Because the truth of it doesn't really matter.

01:00:43.640 It's just a life choice among many life choices that you can make.

01:00:46.960 And it will be beautiful and wonderful.

01:00:48.140 And if you do it, you'll love it.

01:00:49.280 But you'll hate it if you do it.

01:00:50.780 But then wish that you were over here, you know, doing the entrepreneur thing 110 hours

01:00:55.160 a week.

01:00:55.740 And, you know, but when you're there, you're wishing you were at home with your family,

01:00:58.580 which is where you find a lot of really hardcore entrepreneurs.

01:01:01.240 And so I was like, okay, that's not the schism that I want.

01:01:05.080 I just want to focus on this thing.

01:01:06.560 And then it just became really easy once Lisa became an entrepreneur and she found fulfillment in

01:01:11.420 that, then we were both completely fulfilled by what we were trying to build.

01:01:15.800 So then it was like, okay, we, that desire to have a child just basically went away.

01:01:21.220 Purely logical.

01:01:22.000 Yeah.

01:01:22.340 Now, what if Lisa says five years from now, listen, you have changed my mind.

01:01:26.300 Where would you be?

01:01:27.900 Unless I've changed my mind as well, the talk would go like it went at the beginning.

01:01:32.780 If that's really, because this is what I said to her, because I came to that conclusion.

01:01:35.700 This is a very serious conversation.

01:01:37.040 A lot of couples have.

01:01:37.800 And I know you guys got a couple of show that you do as well.

01:01:40.460 So, you know, this kind of stuff comes up.

01:01:42.100 Yeah.

01:01:42.280 So I'll give people the magic words.

01:01:43.840 So here's what I said to her when she wanted kids still.

01:01:47.300 And I now knew that I did not.

01:01:49.860 And I said, I would never deny that for you.

01:01:53.760 Like if that's what you want, then that's what we're going to do.

01:01:56.300 But I want to be really clear about what the division of labor is going to be.

01:02:00.700 So I'm going to be a good father and I'm going to put the time in that I need to, to be a good father,

01:02:06.220 but I'm not going to be taking them to school functions.

01:02:09.180 I'm not going to be changing diapers.

01:02:10.640 I'm not getting up in the middle of the night.

01:02:12.060 I'll have a nanny do it for you. 1.00

01:02:13.060 It's not like I'm expecting you to do it.

01:02:14.820 I'm just letting you know, I won't be doing it.

01:02:17.980 So if you're completely comfortable with that, that I will be finding ways to build efficiency

01:02:22.720 so that only time spent that is quality time, bonding time with the child, that is the only

01:02:27.540 time we'll be spending with them.

01:02:29.100 And all of the hard bullshit and all that, it's going to fall on your shoulders.

01:02:33.080 Outsource as much as you want.

01:02:34.000 I'm not, but everything else that you want to take on, don't get bitter with me because

01:02:38.460 I'm not doing it.

01:02:39.560 So if you're comfortable with that and we'll lay everything out in like super detail.

01:02:44.740 And I said, I'm even happy to draft a contract so that we're not unclear about what roles

01:02:48.820 are.

01:02:50.700 Then yes, because I could never deny you being a mother if that's what you want.

01:02:55.120 So if she came to me in five years and said that, that would be the speech.

01:02:59.100 Concerns, future-wise.

01:03:00.000 You see a lot of people right now talking about, well, the biggest concern right now

01:03:04.780 for the future is this.

01:03:05.760 The biggest concern right now for the future is this.

01:03:07.520 Is there anything, not as an individual, you're not a guy that I foresee myself saying

01:03:11.660 I'm concerned about anything.

01:03:12.980 Like you say, you say, Pat, the way I live is I live in the moment.

01:03:15.240 You know, I literally can die in 15 minutes.

01:03:17.480 Media can hear me.

01:03:18.080 No, literally, I believe that.

01:03:19.120 That's your mindset that you have.

01:03:20.240 But the average person, like, is there anything that you would say, here are the two or three

01:03:25.960 things or one thing that is going to probably impact everybody's life in the next five,

01:03:29.740 10, 20 years?

01:03:30.580 Yeah, there's two things.

01:03:32.760 One is AI and robotics are going to disrupt the economy.

01:03:38.980 That is just a for sure.

01:03:40.640 And I'll peg that.

01:03:41.640 I often say five to seven years.

01:03:43.240 It'll happen within 10 years to be sure.

01:03:45.920 At a minimum, it's going to displace 20 million drivers.

01:03:48.860 So I think everyone can get their head around that.

01:03:50.880 But if you've seen some of the agricultural robots that pick weeds and use less fertilizer

01:03:55.160 and all that, like, there are just things coming that people can't possibly predict.

01:03:58.940 And that's really going to happen.

01:04:00.280 It's certainly not an accident that that's the theme of the comic book Neon Future that

01:04:05.240 I'm writing.

01:04:06.320 So that, I think, is big.

01:04:07.480 And I think that people really have to prepare themselves for it.

01:04:10.020 And the way that you prepare yourself for it is the next problem, which is generations 0.95

01:04:15.400 move in cycles.

01:04:16.700 And no generation is better or worse than the other. 0.94

01:04:19.200 I just think that the personalities of a generation either suit them to or make them ill-suited

01:04:23.600 to what is happening to their generation.

01:04:26.200 So the generation right now is rebelling against the capitalistic, diehard, go get yours, work

01:04:34.640 your ass off, work 110 hours, amass as many resources as you can. 0.75

01:04:38.240 So they think that's gross.

01:04:39.620 So they're pushing back on that hard.

01:04:41.380 Now, the problem with the pushback is, the way they see it is, we should be taken care

01:04:45.380 of.

01:04:45.520 There are just certain basic, inalienable human rights that we should have things like

01:04:50.580 universal basic income, that we should have guaranteed outcomes, stuff like that.

01:04:54.400 Okay.

01:04:54.820 I get it emotionally.

01:04:56.000 I get why they want that to be true.

01:04:57.820 The problem is, the physics of the world and the physics of culture don't give a shit

01:05:01.620 what you think or want.

01:05:03.060 There's just going to be a reality.

01:05:04.320 And you're either suited for that reality or ill-suited.

01:05:07.120 So we're about to hit an inflection point in the generation where with all of their 1.00

01:05:12.460 amazing intentions and all the beautiful things that they're trying to bring to the

01:05:15.480 world, they're going to realize that they're trying to put the onus to protect and serve

01:05:20.200 onto exterior things rather than saying, I have an obligation, me.

01:05:24.640 And the example that I always tell people is, if a meteorite were to strike my wife and

01:05:29.540 kill her, I wouldn't blame anybody but me.

01:05:31.620 That is entirely my fault.

01:05:33.060 And I can back that up because people are like, Tom, that's so ridiculous.

01:05:35.920 How could a meteorite striking your wife and killing her be your fault?

01:05:39.140 That's dumb luck, divine providence, like fate, whatever you want to call it.

01:05:41.880 But Jesus, man, it's ridiculous to blame yourself.

01:05:44.940 And then I point out, I'm on the board of the XPRIZE.

01:05:47.580 At the XPRIZE, there was a prize presented that would allow us to track near-earth objects

01:05:52.420 better than we are today.

01:05:53.580 I voted it down because I don't think it matters.

01:05:56.760 I don't think that the likelihood is high enough, but it's there.

01:05:59.920 I know that there's an organization right now that already tracks near-earth objects.

01:06:03.720 I've never sent them a dime of my money.

01:06:05.460 I've never called them to encourage them.

01:06:07.080 I've never sent them an email with ideas, nothing.

01:06:09.500 Now, I know all of this stuff exists and I do nothing to stop it from happening.

01:06:13.020 So the only thing that I can say if my wife were killed by a meteorite is I did nothing

01:06:18.480 to stop it.

01:06:19.100 I could have made a different decision and got a different outcome.

01:06:21.480 I need to focus on that to remind myself I can always make a change.

01:06:26.160 I can always do something different and get a different outcome.

01:06:28.540 So if you come in and you disrupt my industry, my first thought is not,

01:06:32.200 f**k the world.

01:06:33.320 What are you doing?

01:06:34.180 This is so terrible and sinister.

01:06:36.020 We have to stop AI or whatever.

01:06:37.880 My first reaction is, how do I become more adaptive?

01:06:40.300 And people are putting so much energy into thinking like, f**k, I'm frail, I'm weak,

01:06:46.100 I have to be protected, that they become frail and weak when in reality they are not.

01:06:50.860 My favorite quote on the planet is, Darwin is often misquoted as saying it's the strongest

01:06:55.960 of the species that survive.

01:06:57.300 He did not say that.

01:06:58.460 What he actually said was, it's not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent,

01:07:03.960 but rather the most adaptive to change.

01:07:06.180 That's how humans became the apex predator.

01:07:08.940 We are the most adaptive species on the planet.

01:07:12.200 You can take us anywhere and we will thrive.

01:07:14.540 And it is that ability to adapt mentally and physically that makes us amazing.

01:07:18.320 But you have to believe you can get better.

01:07:20.320 So it's this freakish irony of you have all this latent potential,

01:07:23.520 but if you don't believe it's there, you can't manifest it.

01:07:26.660 And so the very first thing is, people have got to reject this notion that they have to

01:07:31.540 be protected from the outside and putting all their time and energy into that.

01:07:34.940 Be the f**king change you want to see in the world.

01:07:36.900 If you want to see people strong enough to withhold a better weight,

01:07:39.840 then don't worry about trying to fix systems.

01:07:41.520 Just f**king get tough.

01:07:42.860 Watch how people respond to you.

01:07:44.000 Watch how your kids look up to you.

01:07:45.360 Watch how your family members look up to you.

01:07:47.220 Watch how people turn to you and want help.

01:07:49.300 We have an innate desire to get strong.

01:07:52.200 We don't have an innate desire to have something else protect us.

01:07:54.940 All of us.

01:07:56.360 Two buttons, man.

01:07:57.700 One of them is, you're such a badass, nothing can ever hurt you.

01:08:00.360 You f**king get it.

01:08:01.340 You know how to figure it out.

01:08:02.320 You fight your way out of anything.

01:08:03.480 Or a magic fairy will follow behind you and just waft things away. 0.98

01:08:09.400 The terrifying thing is, this button, the magic fairy,

01:08:13.400 is going to get pressed a f**k of a lot more than this button. 0.80

01:08:16.640 But this button, no one dies of suicide with this button.

01:08:19.940 This button, motherf**king race towards suicide and depression.

01:08:23.620 And if you want to know why we're having a pandemic of that,

01:08:27.040 and I don't want to cheapen it because it's largely microbiome

01:08:30.220 and there's all kinds of health things that are going on,

01:08:32.100 I'm not taking that away.

01:08:33.240 But on the mental side of what's driving a lot of people not believing in that

01:08:37.260 is we're just culturally reinforcing that, like, we're stuck.

01:08:40.540 We're trapped.

01:08:41.020 There's nothing we can do that people don't understand.

01:08:42.940 The fulfillment has to be earned.

01:08:44.220 You can't tell someone to just love themselves.

01:08:46.120 You have to tell them how they earn self-respect.

01:08:47.900 You have to tell them that doing hard s**t that you don't want to do

01:08:52.320 and doing it anyway, that's exactly how you gain self-worth.

01:08:55.100 You can't just tell someone to feel worthy.

01:08:57.060 And f**k, man, I want to more than the next person.

01:08:59.920 Like, I spend an inordinate amount of my time every week

01:09:03.720 talking to a camera trying to help people,

01:09:07.120 to touch their lives, for real.

01:09:08.420 Like, my wife and I made so much money,

01:09:09.840 we could have actually bought an island and retired

01:09:12.860 and never worked again.

01:09:14.280 But that's not what I want.

01:09:16.380 Like, I want that fulfillment.

01:09:17.440 I want to do hard s**t.

01:09:18.340 I want to touch people's lives.

01:09:19.400 I want to lift them up.

01:09:20.180 I actually want to transform and change them.

01:09:22.200 And so, I believe in people and I'm way compassionate.

01:09:26.860 This is not me saying, like, oh, kids today, get off my lawn.

01:09:29.640 This is like, I get it.

01:09:30.480 This is the nature of cyclical cycle.

01:09:33.080 Yeah, like, in culture, this happens.

01:09:35.400 You rebel against your parents.

01:09:36.400 And since my parents were coming out of the war

01:09:42.280 and they believed that, like, the world could be better

01:09:45.740 and the world was better for them,

01:09:47.020 like, I caught the tail end of that.

01:09:48.500 And so, I'm so optimistic about s**t.

01:09:51.160 So, when I encountered a growth mindset,

01:09:52.740 I was ready to take it in.

01:09:54.460 But now we have, like, a generation that's really pushing back 1.00

01:09:57.760 on those notions of just, like, self-ownership,

01:10:01.180 self-authorship of recognizing no one's response.

01:10:04.500 No one is responsible for the difficulties in your life but you.

01:10:10.420 That's powerful.

01:10:11.840 Very powerful.

01:10:12.860 So, to stay on this.

01:10:14.400 So, you're not a fan of the universal basic income

01:10:16.740 of $1,000 a month to any American, no matter what,

01:10:19.460 and adding $2 trillion of cost every year.

01:10:22.840 You're definitely against that.

01:10:23.840 Here's the thing.

01:10:24.460 I don't know s**t about it.

01:10:25.620 I know the psychology of humans.

01:10:28.120 And if somebody showed me that by doing that,

01:10:31.020 that people in droves would go develop themselves

01:10:33.840 and they would stop asking for a lighter load

01:10:36.140 and they would start working for stronger shoulders,

01:10:37.860 if that really is what happened.

01:10:39.660 And it's just like, hey, Tom,

01:10:40.980 you free up that layer of panic over safety

01:10:43.660 and now people really are empowering themselves.

01:10:45.640 I'd be like, f**k, give them more.

01:10:47.320 But I have not seen the truth of that

01:10:49.600 in the way that humans are.

01:10:51.120 I find that they get terrified that that will go away.

01:10:54.440 They try to hoard more resources

01:10:56.180 and it just goes f**king bananas. 0.89

01:10:58.740 It's not even that it's just people

01:11:00.060 lay around and play Xbox.

01:11:01.100 I don't think they're going to get enough

01:11:02.440 to lay around and play Xbox.

01:11:04.900 So, it just gets into this,

01:11:06.100 how do I get people to give me more?

01:11:07.660 And man, I've seen that play out like

01:11:09.740 giving a severance package

01:11:11.400 that you know is crazy generous

01:11:13.920 and then people are offended by it.

01:11:16.160 You're like, what?

01:11:17.460 It's crazy town.

01:11:18.380 You know that about it.

01:11:19.180 I know exactly.

01:11:19.840 Two questions before we wrap up.

01:11:22.000 One is you're big on learning a lot of skill sets, right?

01:11:27.200 What would you say has the highest,

01:11:29.020 what skill set has the highest upside, highest return?

01:11:32.600 The baseline thing people have to have

01:11:35.560 is emotional resilience.

01:11:38.600 So, you have to, and this to me is a skill,

01:11:41.380 you have to learn how to emotionally recalibrate.

01:11:43.880 So, when I was the kid in the server room

01:11:47.020 and there was a whole bunch of people farther ahead

01:11:49.280 in their entrepreneurial journey than I

01:11:50.720 and they all heard the same message

01:11:52.820 about you can be a partner

01:11:53.780 and none of them did anything with it,

01:11:55.840 I started asking,

01:11:56.860 why aren't they doing anything with it?

01:11:58.740 And I realized the answer was,

01:12:00.100 I could self-soothe faster than they could.

01:12:02.740 And so, yeah, it hurt when I was told I was an idiot.

01:12:05.400 That really sucked.

01:12:06.680 Especially hearing it from someone you really respect.

01:12:09.160 But, I decided to not spin out of control,

01:12:13.240 not waste three days being hurt by it,

01:12:15.500 but instead to recenter and just ask,

01:12:17.960 are they right?

01:12:19.100 Because if they're right,

01:12:19.900 there's something to learn here.

01:12:20.980 And if they're not right, just move on.

01:12:22.380 And if they are right, learn the lesson.

01:12:24.160 And so, I just slowly started collecting it

01:12:25.760 and the lessons.

01:12:27.100 And the image I started thinking was,

01:12:28.700 whenever somebody throws an insult at you,

01:12:31.380 you have two options.

01:12:32.780 You can let it hit you in the head

01:12:33.920 or you can raise your defenses and deflect it.

01:12:37.480 And your defenses are the psychological immune system.

01:12:40.020 They're real.

01:12:40.560 I'm not making that up.

01:12:41.680 So, all of us have this thing that comes to our aid

01:12:45.200 when somebody says something that hurts you.

01:12:46.840 Then you're like,

01:12:47.460 oh, well, they're mean anyway.

01:12:48.580 They're a jerk.

01:12:49.120 They're a bully.

01:12:49.600 Whatever.

01:12:49.940 I don't have to take them seriously.

01:12:51.420 And so, that makes you feel better.

01:12:52.860 And you believe maybe that they're being cosmically punished

01:12:55.220 in some way.

01:12:55.720 Being a bully is its own punishment and all that.

01:12:57.780 And that allows you to relax.

01:12:59.940 And they've done studies that show

01:13:01.060 people with the highest level of self-delusion

01:13:02.900 are the happiest.

01:13:04.320 So, there really is something to it.

01:13:06.540 But the people with the highest level of self-delusion

01:13:08.340 are usually not the ones that go the farthest

01:13:10.400 because they don't stop to recognize

01:13:13.660 where they really are to own the pain of that.

01:13:16.460 So, I thought,

01:13:17.080 okay, instead of raising my defenses,

01:13:19.020 I'm going to lower my defenses.

01:13:20.120 I'm going to let that rock hit me in the head

01:13:21.700 because at my feet now is actually a nugget of gold.

01:13:24.900 And I'm going to pick up that nugget of gold

01:13:26.240 and form it a lesson that the person is throwing at me.

01:13:28.540 And here's the thing to realize.

01:13:29.820 When people really come at you,

01:13:31.640 they're really trying to hurt you.

01:13:32.780 They have sinister intent.

01:13:34.360 They're going to come at you with something that's true.

01:13:36.940 Nobody comes at you with the stuff that's not real.

01:13:39.240 They're going to hit you with like the thing

01:13:40.680 that you're the most secure about in the world.

01:13:44.040 So, even the people with the gravest of intent

01:13:47.000 are the ones that are giving you the most powerful gift

01:13:49.060 because you may be blind to it

01:13:50.080 or maybe you didn't want to acknowledge it.

01:13:51.580 But if you can let it hit you as much as it hurts,

01:13:53.680 then bend down, pick it up, and learn from it,

01:13:55.580 now you can do something.

01:13:56.700 That person will become unstoppable.

01:13:58.220 Very, very true.

01:13:59.440 Tom, how do you process issues?

01:14:00.720 Do you have a system of what you go through?

01:14:02.920 Something happens, something comes up in your brain.

01:14:05.700 Is there a step process you go through?

01:14:07.300 Yes.

01:14:07.760 What is it?

01:14:08.200 It starts with a goal.

01:14:09.060 So, what is my goal?

01:14:10.300 Well, first, it starts with clearing the emotion

01:14:12.100 because probably whatever I was told just had some emotion.

01:14:15.820 I recenter myself.

01:14:17.100 The thing that I probably repeat to myself the most

01:14:19.300 is you can do anything you set your mind to

01:14:22.240 on a long enough timeline.

01:14:23.780 So, I know I can learn anything.

01:14:25.140 So, if the thing that hits me is overwhelming

01:14:26.860 because I'm scared, I don't know how to do it,

01:14:29.040 you can do anything you set your mind to.

01:14:30.420 So, at the end of this,

01:14:31.780 thinking through is going to be the question.

01:14:32.980 Are you willing to set your mind to it or not?

01:14:35.260 And then I identify, okay, what's my goal?

01:14:37.420 Does this move me towards my goal?

01:14:38.640 Yes or no?

01:14:39.380 I think through the process of,

01:14:40.760 has somebody done it?

01:14:41.580 Is there already a well-laid path

01:14:43.220 from where I'm at to actually completing this?

01:14:45.680 Which is how I decided that we were going to take on Disney

01:14:48.320 because looking at the only studio ever in the history of time

01:14:52.100 to be disciplined enough to only tell one kind of story

01:14:55.560 from a thousand different angles

01:14:56.740 so much so that they gave birth to Americana

01:14:58.880 is Disney.

01:15:00.220 No other studio.

01:15:01.000 Everyone else is all over the map.

01:15:02.220 If I say I'm going to go see a Sony movie

01:15:03.560 or a Paramount movie,

01:15:04.560 you don't know anything about it.

01:15:05.740 But if I say I'm going to go see a Disney movie,

01:15:07.480 you already know something.

01:15:08.640 So, their name brand means something.

01:15:10.640 So, I could see,

01:15:11.760 oh, there's a path from where I'm at

01:15:13.180 to the impact that I want to have.

01:15:15.160 So, I throw that out just as a reminder

01:15:17.240 of the path that I'm walking

01:15:18.660 more than I have some particular obsession with Disney.

01:15:21.840 Fascinating.

01:15:22.460 And by the way, in your mind,

01:15:23.840 do you see it already,

01:15:24.880 that vision becoming a reality?

01:15:25.920 No question.

01:15:26.580 No question.

01:15:27.800 No question about it.

01:15:28.900 For sure.

01:15:29.200 And look, I have days of where I'm like,

01:15:30.520 how the f*** am I actually going to do this?

01:15:32.160 But then you come back to,

01:15:33.460 you can learn anything you set your mind to,

01:15:35.080 so just keep marching forward.

01:15:36.120 Yeah, I like what you said once.

01:15:37.520 You said, you know,

01:15:38.280 the whole thing about when you get to 75%,

01:15:40.220 you know, you're there like,

01:15:41.080 man, it's got to happen.

01:15:41.860 Why isn't it kind of happening already?

01:15:43.160 You know, that whole thing

01:15:43.800 where we're about to score a touchdown.

01:15:45.980 Where would you say you are right now

01:15:47.600 on the process of doing that, the vision?

01:15:49.940 It's a 70-year plan.

01:15:51.400 So, we are in our absolute infancy.

01:15:53.520 But I think that we're,

01:15:55.320 you could put me up against

01:15:56.360 just about anybody else.

01:15:57.580 And on the same amount of time,

01:15:59.000 I'd say we're ahead of anybody else.

01:16:01.160 Really?

01:16:01.600 For sure.

01:16:02.140 That confident, right?

01:16:02.920 Yes.

01:16:03.540 Powerful.

01:16:04.380 Well, Tom, it's been great having you.

01:16:06.240 By the way, if you're watching this right now,

01:16:08.140 you heard so many different things.

01:16:09.940 We talked about business, partnership.

01:16:12.600 Should you have kids?

01:16:13.440 Should you not have kids?

01:16:15.020 You ought to go out there

01:16:16.020 and follow his content.

01:16:16.960 But having said that, brother,

01:16:18.020 thank you so much for coming out.

01:16:19.040 Thank you, man.

01:16:19.340 Very interesting sitting on with you.

01:16:20.800 Yes, it was a lot of fun.

01:16:21.860 Thanks, everybody, for listening.

01:16:23.120 And by the way,

01:16:23.540 if you haven't already subscribed

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01:16:27.740 Give us a five-star.

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01:16:30.620 And if you have any questions for me

01:16:32.120 that you may have,

01:16:32.820 you can always find me on Snapchat,

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01:16:43.560 With that being said,

01:16:44.260 have a great day today.

01:16:45.300 Take care, everybody.

01:16:46.020 Bye-bye.

Valuetainment - July 22, 2019

Episode 345： How To Monetize Your Skills - Tom Bilyeu

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