Valuetainment - Episode 397： Dorian Yates - The Genius Scientist of Bodybuilding

00:00:00.000 30 seconds.

00:00:30.000 Genius scientist.

00:00:31.180 He had no filters.

00:00:32.380 He called out a lot of different people, existing people in the past, people he competed with.

00:00:37.660 There was nothing this man was willing to hold back.

00:00:41.020 Again, if you like bodybuilding, if you like going to the gym, if you like fitness, you're

00:00:45.860 going to like the way Dorian Yates communicates his message to you.

00:00:49.460 Dorian, thanks for coming down, man.

00:00:50.700 Thanks for having me on, man.

00:00:51.560 Appreciate you.

00:00:52.100 Yeah, I've been really looking forward to this one.

00:00:54.440 Yeah, me too.

00:00:55.440 Me too.

00:00:55.760 So you were in L.A.

00:00:57.120 I know you went to Mr. Olympia.

00:00:58.600 You kind of had a chance to be there.

00:01:00.180 I was in L.A. at Goals Gym, where I think we met many years ago.

00:01:06.360 I was there doing a training camp, and then from there we went to Vegas, watching the Mr.

00:01:11.560 Olympia, and I stopped by in Dallas for a couple of days, then I go to Mexico, then I go back

00:01:16.680 to L.A., and then I fly back to Europe.

00:01:18.360 So are you constantly traveling, or no?

00:01:20.140 This is just the season right now.

00:01:21.300 It's been pretty busy the last couple of years with the various different things that I'm

00:01:27.280 into with my business, and then the training, and the Ayahuasca camp down in Costa Rica now.

00:01:33.220 So quite a few things in different directions.

00:01:36.280 So there's been a lot of traveling over the last couple of years.

00:01:38.400 What's traveling, like three months out of here, four months, five months?

00:01:40.600 What would you say to me?

00:01:42.400 You never know, because it depends what comes up.

00:01:45.060 Got it.

00:01:45.260 But I travel pretty much every month for a week or so, on average, I would guess.

00:01:50.820 And I know you live in Spain right now, but going back to Goals Gym, I read somewhere a

00:01:55.400 story about the fact that you went to Goals Gym one time, and apparently all the pros can

00:01:58.460 go work out there for free, but one of the front desk clerks couldn't recognize you.

00:02:02.480 Yeah, it was a funny story because, as you know, probably back in the day in the 90s, Goals

00:02:08.220 Gym was owned by a small group of people.

00:02:10.420 It was like a family atmosphere, and everybody knew everybody, and I would go there, and

00:02:15.700 of course, if you're Mr. Olympia or if you're a top pro, you train there for free.

00:02:20.140 They're very happy to have you there and welcome you and all that kind of stuff.

00:02:24.380 But it had been some time since I've been there, and the gym had sold out, I guess, to

00:02:29.340 whoever, I don't know, a corporation.

00:02:32.880 So they've got people working there that maybe they're not that familiar with bodybuilding.

00:02:37.700 So I've gone there to work out, and I'm like, hey, I'd like to train, please.

00:02:42.280 And the girl's like, whatever, it's $40 or whatever it was.

00:02:46.080 So I don't want to jump straight in there like, hey, you know, don't you know who I am.

00:02:50.060 So I'm like, well, I don't normally pay to train here.

00:02:54.400 Why is that?

00:02:55.880 Because I'm a pro, you know, pros, we don't usually train.

00:02:59.060 But okay, but how do I know if you're a pro?

00:03:02.520 Have you got some proof?

00:03:03.980 So at that point, I'm like, well, if you want to swing around and look on the wall right

00:03:09.040 behind you, the big picture there with Doreen Yates on, that's me.

00:03:12.880 That's me.

00:03:13.460 So, oh, okay, let me speak to the manager.

00:03:16.060 What was the reaction?

00:03:17.120 Was the, did the boss come out?

00:03:18.960 It's like, oh, my gosh, that's Doreen.

00:03:20.020 Let him in.

00:03:20.660 Ah, yeah, eventually.

00:03:22.260 And now, I mean, now it's great.

00:03:24.100 They know me, and I go there and train my people and get a great reception.

00:03:28.180 But I think it was maybe the changeover of crew and everything.

00:03:33.860 So, yeah, that was a little bit amusing.

00:03:36.220 Do you see a little bit of that also happening with the brand of Mr. Olympia?

00:03:40.520 I know you went from there to Mr. Olympia.

00:03:41.960 Is that also kind of happening a little bit?

00:03:43.260 Because I'm hearing mixed feelings from a lot of old timers.

00:03:46.120 I think what's happened is the Mr. Olympia was, you know, the pinnacle of bodybuilding.

00:03:54.280 And bodybuilding, per se, was very popular in the 80s and the 90s.

00:03:59.320 And I would say bodybuilding as such, professional bodybuilding, has declined in its popularity

00:04:07.600 and the number of people that's maybe getting involved with it.

00:04:10.600 But there's a whole lot of other classes that are around now that didn't used to be around.

00:04:16.800 We just used to have bodybuilding.

00:04:18.380 Now you've got bodybuilding Mr. Olympia.

00:04:20.400 You've got the 212 class for the smaller guys.

00:04:23.820 Now you've got a classic physique category.

00:04:26.600 That's kind of, I guess, a pushback against the bodybuilding

00:04:29.860 where a lot of people felt the guys were getting too big and, you know, not looking aesthetic.

00:04:35.020 So they created this class, which is, you know, if you're a certain height,

00:04:38.700 you can only go up to a certain weight.

00:04:39.960 So they're looking for all that kind of classic physique like Frank Zane or this kind of.

00:04:44.760 Then you've got men's physique, which is basically kind of like an advanced beach body.

00:04:50.080 Really, they're looking for a good upper body and they wear board shorts.

00:04:53.600 So not much reason to train legs.

00:04:55.800 Do you like that idea?

00:04:56.660 I just make fun of them because I'm like, you know.

00:05:01.400 I make fun of them, but it's lighthearted.

00:05:03.900 It's like, I'm not one of these people that's in a camp.

00:05:08.500 Like, bodybuilding is great and the CrossFit is terrible.

00:05:11.720 I'm a big believer in any kind of exercise, man.

00:05:16.320 Like, whatever works for you.

00:05:17.940 If you find CrossFit works for you and you like that, do that.

00:05:21.480 If you like men's physique and you don't want to train your legs

00:05:23.740 and you just want to train your upper body,

00:05:25.980 it's much better than sitting on your ass and doing nothing and watching TV or whatever.

00:05:29.680 So any kind of exercise, man, I don't really do bodybuilding myself these days

00:05:34.580 because I have some injuries and I don't feel that it's really what I need.

00:05:37.860 So I do yoga, I do Pilates, I do biking, I do even some CrossFit classes sometimes.

00:05:44.740 So zero, you're not hitting weights at all right now.

00:05:46.980 No, because it got to a point where I felt it wasn't really benefiting me.

00:05:54.040 I got a pretty bad shoulder injury.

00:05:56.060 I got a detached supraspinatus, which makes that shoulder very weak.

00:06:00.940 I tore a bicep on this left side, I tore a tricep.

00:06:03.440 So this left side is much weaker than the right side.

00:06:06.600 Is that the same biceps as back in the days?

00:06:08.420 Yeah, exactly.

00:06:08.940 It's the same one.

00:06:09.380 So it's all on the same side, all on the same side where I had these injuries.

00:06:13.560 Sure, they're all related.

00:06:15.480 Once you get one injury, the stress moves somewhere else and it's easy to get another injury.

00:06:20.920 So it means if I lift weights, it's kind of an imbalance and then this shoulder starts hurting

00:06:25.880 and I had to make some pains and I felt a bit stiff and I just got it like,

00:06:32.240 I got to work on my mobility and my flexibility and started looking to yoga

00:06:36.780 and I've been doing that for about three years and I love it.

00:06:39.560 I love going hiking, I love biking.

00:06:41.480 I like using my body as a vehicle and when I was in bodybuilding,

00:06:45.900 I was so immersed in it like a tunnel vision that I literally did nothing else.

00:06:52.100 I thought about nothing else.

00:06:54.440 So now I'm enjoying being, you know, multidimensional

00:06:58.820 and doing a lot of things that I couldn't do then or at least I told myself I couldn't do them.

00:07:03.520 That's one of the interesting things about you.

00:07:05.420 There is, you know, when you peel the onion, you're like, okay,

00:07:08.420 so this guy's a six-time Mr. Olympia bodybuilder, you know, the shadow,

00:07:11.760 the lats spread, the Christmas tree and you're like, here was his upbringing.

00:07:17.800 He has opinions on 9-11.

00:07:20.440 What's that all about?

00:07:21.460 He has opinions on psyched...

00:07:24.220 The more you go, the more there is depth to Dorian Yates

00:07:29.680 and that's what I think what makes it so interesting for the audience

00:07:32.580 to want to know more about you.

00:07:33.720 But when you were at Mr. Olympia this last one that you went,

00:07:36.700 how did you feel about the whole contest?

00:07:38.620 Did you, I mean, obviously Brandon Curry won.

00:07:40.760 What did you think about Brandon Curry as a physique, as a winner?

00:07:44.040 Well, I mean, I respect all the guys up there.

00:07:47.140 They're all doing their best.

00:07:48.500 But if I'm to be honest, and that's pretty much normally what I am,

00:07:53.660 I feel the standard of the Mr. Olympia is not what it used to be.

00:07:58.240 The whole thing's diversified.

00:07:59.680 You've got all these different categories and classes and everything,

00:08:02.100 but the Mr. Olympia, the pure bodybuilding itself,

00:08:05.220 you had three guys there that, you know, I guess they were pretty close.

00:08:10.420 There was two guys in what I would say pretty good shape, you know.

00:08:14.680 They were in good shape, but they're quite small.

00:08:17.180 Who were two guys?

00:08:18.040 Yeah, I'm William Bonac.

00:08:19.720 Okay, second one.

00:08:20.360 And a guy from Iran.

00:08:22.940 Hadid Chopin.

00:08:23.800 Yeah, I couldn't pronounce his name.

00:08:27.140 Very good and in good shape, but they're smaller guys.

00:08:29.880 They're smaller guys.

00:08:30.960 And so Brandon won it, I believe, because he got more stature.

00:08:34.960 He's bigger.

00:08:35.920 It looks more like a Mr. Olympia, but he wasn't in incredible shape.

00:08:41.040 So I think it was probably one of the weaker Mr. Olympias that we've seen.

00:08:47.320 What do you look at when you look at this?

00:08:49.000 I'm curious, like, your eyes.

00:08:50.320 Yeah.

00:08:50.540 Where does it go first?

00:08:51.540 And then where does it go?

00:08:52.840 Because when I look at it, the average person looks at it, it's like, oh my gosh, this guy's a beast.

00:08:56.220 What do you look at?

00:08:57.080 Well, he's got very good fullness, good roundness to the muscles and no really noticeable weak points in that pose.

00:09:07.180 But he's lacking deep separation and conditioning that used to be the norm in the Mr. Olympia.

00:09:15.540 The conditioning part.

00:09:16.380 Yeah, the conditioning is what's lacking these days.

00:09:18.900 And that was a big difference between you and Kevin LeVron as well.

00:09:20.260 Would you agree with that?

00:09:20.960 Where some of the times he would show up pretty full, but he wasn't as...

00:09:23.180 Yeah, Kevin had a great physique, but he wasn't consistent in coming in.

00:09:28.360 You know, sometimes he did, sometimes he didn't, but he wasn't consistent in coming in that kind of shape.

00:09:33.540 So you see the fullness, but you still don't call this to be fully cut up or conditioned?

00:09:37.980 No.

00:09:38.280 You wouldn't put this like that level?

00:09:39.260 I'd probably be like in that shape around about six weeks before the contest.

00:09:43.040 This is six weeks to you.

00:09:44.640 Yeah, I would still consider this work in progress, work to do.

00:09:48.740 So this during your era with the guys competing, El Sombati, you know, all the guys that were running at that time, Ray, Cormier, all those guys.

00:09:58.040 How would today's body do during that time?

00:10:01.960 Brandon Correa, this for Zig, he definitely wouldn't place in the top six.

00:10:06.160 He wouldn't place in the top six in the 90s?

00:10:08.340 He wouldn't place in the top six, no.

00:10:09.420 Why do you say that?

00:10:10.400 Is it purely based on the...

00:10:11.580 You guys were more disciplined than today?

00:10:13.240 I don't know the reasons, all the factors involved, but you look at the top six in the 90s.

00:10:22.680 I had myself, Kevin LeVron, Flex Wheeler, Sean Ray, Nassau Sombati.

00:10:28.960 I believe all those physiques are superior to the winners that we had in the last couple of years.

00:10:35.140 You know, I want to ask this question for me, you know, because this is a typical debate that happens in every sport, right?

00:10:40.460 The debate was Jordan was coming up, and the guys prior to him will say, well, he would have never lasted in the 70s or the 80s, you know.

00:10:49.520 Or, you know, you would have never been able to play during Jordan's era because it was real foul, you know.

00:10:55.600 The Jordan's rules, when he played against the Pistons, they really beat you up, right?

00:10:59.120 So, a LeBron couldn't have lasted or Steph Curry would have never existed.

00:11:03.920 Do you think a part of that is also that the old generation has so much pride behind what they did that they always...

00:11:13.420 It's like, you know, my father saying, you know, I was born and raised in Iran, and you were born and raised in Iran.

00:11:18.720 But when I was born and raised in Iran, I had to get out of school at, you know, eighth grade, and I had to work and do all that.

00:11:22.940 And you hear those stories.

00:11:23.920 Do you think there's an element of that?

00:11:26.300 It was better in my days.

00:11:27.300 Yeah, it was tougher in my days.

00:11:29.140 But do you think there's an element of that, or is it the fact that there was fewer distractions where you guys were forced to be so disciplined

00:11:36.620 because you didn't have a lot of different options to make it work?

00:11:40.760 For instance, heavyweight boxing.

00:11:43.340 I think we probably, if you're a fan of boxing, you can accept that in the 70s, there was Muhammad Ali, there was Ken Norton, there was Joe Frazier, there was George Foreman.

00:11:53.920 That was probably a peak of heavyweight boxing.

00:11:56.960 I think experts would agree with you on that.

00:11:58.480 So for some reason, at that time, there was a lot of, you know, there's a lot of talent just coming at that time for various factors and various reasons.

00:12:09.580 And I think that's probably the case in the 90s.

00:12:12.080 And again, there was just bodybuilding.

00:12:13.980 There was not all these other categories.

00:12:15.820 There was not even, for instance, a guy now maybe who would have been interested in going to bodybuilding before.

00:12:22.540 Maybe now he's doing CrossFit, or maybe he's doing MMA, or maybe he's doing men's physique, or classic physique.

00:12:29.600 And so there's many more avenues that an athlete could go down.

00:12:33.320 So if you've got a smaller pool, genetic pool of talent, obviously then it's going to be harder for the standard to be up there.

00:12:43.020 So I just think there was just a lot of really good guys all at one time in the 90s.

00:12:48.880 Any one of those guys on a given day could be Mr. Olympia, like five or six guys.

00:12:53.480 To date.

00:12:54.440 Yeah.

00:12:54.660 Or even then, you know, if I was off, badly off, somebody could have beat me.

00:13:01.520 Or, you know, who plays second to me?

00:13:04.120 Kevin LeBron plays second to me.

00:13:05.700 Sean Ray.

00:13:06.140 Sean Ray plays second to me.

00:13:07.340 Flex Wheeler plays second.

00:13:09.340 Nassau Sambati.

00:13:10.100 So it was constantly, you know, going back and forth depending on who was in shape at the time.

00:13:16.020 I remember Flex Wheeler once said, he says, I never saw Dorian as beatable.

00:13:21.720 But that's Flex Wheeler.

00:13:23.440 Like Flex Wheeler during that time was a human specimen.

00:13:27.440 Like he was the LeBron James of bodybuilding.

00:13:30.240 You looked at his physique and you're like, how does this make any sense?

00:13:33.620 But he himself didn't psychologically think you were beatable.

00:13:37.240 Well, that's the advantage that I had over him.

00:13:40.340 I had a little bit more mental tenacity.

00:13:43.860 Probably Flex had more natural talent than me because let's say that I did everything and I put,

00:13:50.100 and I achieved 100% like my effort and dedication.

00:13:53.560 And so I got 100% of my potential fulfilled.

00:13:57.180 We'll never know.

00:13:58.060 But let's say for argument that I did, I would say that Flex probably maybe did 70%

00:14:02.880 because he might break his diet a little bit.

00:14:07.240 Would his 100% have beaten you?

00:14:08.920 Very possibly.

00:14:09.880 Meaning could you have won a single one if Flex was 100% there?

00:14:14.280 We'll never know.

00:14:15.400 But I do say when we were competing together, I said, like, if this guy did what I do,

00:14:23.420 I have a real hard time beating him.

00:14:25.940 Because I know if he did what you did.

00:14:28.700 Yeah, if he did what I did, if he had my brain, my approach, my dedication because he seemed to develop this phenomenal physique with not, you know, an absolute great deal of effort.

00:14:44.120 But it came quite easy to him, I think.

00:14:47.240 And I think sometimes when things come easy, you don't feel, you don't need to really look and search for that, you know, to do that 100% because it's already there, right?

00:14:57.040 I agree.

00:14:57.760 Just the one part I was curious about.

00:14:59.120 I mean, I used to party in L.A. when I got out of the military and when you and I met, the whole picture of you and I, when we met years and years ago.

00:15:08.120 This is...

00:15:08.700 Yeah, I'm about 100 pounds heavier there almost, 80, 90 pounds.

00:15:13.760 Oh, yeah.

00:15:14.280 I'm like 220 now, 225, and I was probably 300 plus there.

00:15:18.120 You were massive when I met you.

00:15:19.960 Oh, I look at pictures of myself now and, holy shit, what is that?

00:15:23.460 What do you think about it when you see it today?

00:15:25.100 You know, it's not like I look at pictures of myself every day, but sometimes a picture will come up on social media or something like that, and I'm like, holy shit, man.

00:15:35.620 That was, yeah, that was extreme.

00:15:38.360 So if we put the leader's bulletin on who won the most in the 90s, it's you, okay?

00:15:43.300 You got six, okay?

00:15:45.000 But if we put the leader's bulletin on who had most fun, where would you be ranked?

00:15:48.760 Would you be ranked at the bottom?

00:15:50.300 Probably.

00:15:50.900 Probably at the bottom.

00:15:51.760 Probably, yeah.

00:15:52.700 There's a trade-off, man.

00:15:53.880 There's a trade-off.

00:15:54.800 Like, I just put absolute dedication into this, and fun was like something I can do later.

00:16:00.620 I'm doing this right now, and having too much fun might interfere.

00:16:06.700 And I think that's kind of why, one of the reasons that I stayed where I was in England, although there was, you know, some pressure for me to move to California.

00:16:15.020 I was working for the Weider Company, for the magazines, Joe Weider.

00:16:18.760 They would like me to be out there so they'd have more access to me, and, you know, do more photos, do more stuff.

00:16:25.080 And then, you know, like you say, you're in L.A., full of hot chicks, full of parties, nice weather.

00:16:29.980 And I was scared to relax, man, because if I relaxed a little bit and enjoyed it, maybe I'd just lose it, you know.

00:16:36.800 So, I want to stay isolated, stay in the U.K., stay in Birmingham, like where my gym was, and just keep my head down, and go to the gym, and train, and come home, and eat, and sleep.

00:16:48.120 And just that whole routine, which is like a training camp, which people might do for two or three months before a contest.

00:16:54.280 I took that approach year-round, you know.

00:16:57.080 And so, at that point, you're married, I'm assuming you're married.

00:16:59.880 Yeah, I was married.

00:17:00.220 So, the entire time you competed professionally, you were married.

00:17:02.940 I wasn't married the whole time, but I was with my partner, and then we got married.

00:17:07.080 I think we got married after I got second in the Olympia, because we had a bit of money.

00:17:12.960 You know, we had to afford to get married, and we're going to get a holiday.

00:17:15.320 Purely money issue, they didn't get married.

00:17:17.080 You know, and I thought it was time, like, hey, you know, like, I got to this place, and this woman's been with me and supporting me, and like, yeah, we should get married now.

00:17:27.280 Did you see that as a formula amongst winners, like the guys who won at the top consistently were married with fewer distractions than the guys that were second, third, fourth place?

00:17:35.660 Well, the guy that was an inspiration for me was Lee Haney, because he was Mr. Olympia before me.

00:17:42.700 He was Mr. Olympia pretty much when I started.

00:17:45.160 He was Mr. Olympia from 84, and Lee Haney was a married man, and he was a family man, and I think they had a kid as well pretty around the same time as me.

00:17:57.180 So, he was somebody I could look at, like, well, this is a family guy, I can relate to him, and a lot of the other guys were single.

00:18:03.040 So, I wasn't, you know, early on.

00:18:06.940 So, Lee Haney was an inspiration for me, like, how to, like, you know, balance your family and the sport and so on.

00:18:14.280 And for sure, I think it gives you that stability.

00:18:17.340 If you're single and you've got all these distractions, parties, girls, and, you know, that pulls you out of your training mode.

00:18:23.720 I mean, I remember I'd go to Century Club in L.A.

00:18:26.620 I don't know if you've ever been to Century Club.

00:18:28.140 You've probably never heard of it.

00:18:29.020 Oh, you've heard of it.

00:18:29.700 Oh, you've heard of it.

00:18:29.720 Okay, go to Century Club in L.A., and all these guys would be there, all of them, okay?

00:18:34.860 So, you would see her, like, this guy's partying pretty hard.

00:18:38.320 I know the name.

00:18:39.020 I just saw you at a competition.

00:18:40.480 You'd go to Vegas late, all this after hours.

00:18:42.800 I'm like, these guys are training, you know, and partying hardcore is what they were doing.

00:18:48.460 But nobody heard anything about you.

00:18:50.940 You were quiet on your own island doing your thing.

00:18:53.000 You were just coming and winning one after another.

00:18:53.820 I didn't want anyone to hear anything about me.

00:18:55.540 I didn't want anyone to know too much about me.

00:18:57.460 Is that part of your personality?

00:18:59.080 It's part of my personality.

00:19:00.220 I like my privacy, and it works psychologically as well because of becoming an enigma that they couldn't get a handle on me.

00:19:07.240 I mean, they don't see me.

00:19:08.180 They see each other in the gym every day.

00:19:09.960 So, oh, so-and-so, yeah, you see him, he's having a down day today.

00:19:13.440 He's doing an argument with his girlfriend.

00:19:15.100 Or, you see this guy, he doesn't look so good.

00:19:17.240 And, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:19:19.500 So, everyone got a, like, handle on each other.

00:19:22.040 But Dorian, no, because I was out of the, you know, I was out of the picture.

00:19:25.320 They didn't know nothing.

00:19:26.120 Just like this, creating this monster in their mind that's just in this basement and is throwing weights around.

00:19:32.540 And it's, you know, creating this mystique where they, you know, they accepted they couldn't beat me.

00:19:39.860 And if they're telling themselves they can't beat me, then for sure they can't beat me.

00:19:43.440 I mean, they're creating their own reality with a thought.

00:19:46.240 It's not possible.

00:19:47.040 If you say he is unbeatable.

00:19:48.960 Then that will be so.

00:19:50.060 Then it's game over already.

00:19:51.240 If you say that.

00:19:52.080 How much of your formula for winning was your wiring on how you were born?

00:19:59.800 Like, this is how I've been since I was a kid.

00:20:01.420 I kind of watched everybody.

00:20:02.500 Yeah.

00:20:02.580 I was a guy that would sit in the room, wouldn't say, I'm not watching what he's doing, what he's doing, what he's doing.

00:20:06.520 And how much of it was your benefit of, you know, from when your father passed, I think you were living in a city called Hurley.

00:20:13.700 I don't know if the name was.

00:20:14.440 Yeah, a little, it was kind of a little farm.

00:20:17.340 We had some horses and chickens and dogs and stuff like that.

00:20:20.640 It's a small community.

00:20:21.460 Yeah, a small community.

00:20:22.200 And then you moved to Birmingham.

00:20:23.560 Yeah, but I mean, looking back, I did some unusual things when I was a kid.

00:20:28.220 But nobody told me that it was unusual.

00:20:30.060 Like, nobody really said anything to me.

00:20:32.400 One time we had a charity run at school and it was like around the 400 meter track.

00:20:38.940 They wanted to buy a new minibus for the school or something.

00:20:42.160 They have money for a bus, so they want to raise money.

00:20:44.880 So we got sponsored.

00:20:46.140 So you go around knocking on doors and like, will you sponsor me so much a lap?

00:20:50.880 You know, run around the track.

00:20:52.100 So, yeah, five pence, ten pence, whatever it was.

00:20:55.760 And I remember there was another guy who was a runner.

00:20:57.840 He was from a family of boxers.

00:20:59.260 They're all lightweight boxers, so he's real wiry.

00:21:01.420 And he told me he was a great runner.

00:21:04.040 And I told him, I'm better running than you.

00:21:06.460 I probably wasn't, but I told him I was.

00:21:08.360 So we had this thing where we're going to see who's a better runner when we run around the track.

00:21:12.940 So we're running around, you know, kids do five laps, six laps.

00:21:16.380 They're dropping out.

00:21:17.440 It gets to 10, 15 laps.

00:21:19.040 Just me and this other guy, right?

00:21:20.820 And I'm like, I can't give up because I'm not going to give up.

00:21:23.660 I've got to keep going, right?

00:21:25.280 Keep going, keep going.

00:21:26.760 20 laps or something like that.

00:21:28.860 The guy drops out.

00:21:30.380 Wow, I beat him.

00:21:31.780 But then something happened to me.

00:21:33.240 Like, I didn't feel anything.

00:21:34.740 And I just kept running, kept running like Forrest Gump.

00:21:37.660 Running, running, running.

00:21:38.500 I went around the track 45 times.

00:21:41.180 Everyone had gone home except for the teacher that had to witness this thing

00:21:44.000 and sign the paper that you've actually done this.

00:21:46.760 And she said, Dorian, you've got to stop now.

00:21:49.180 I've got to go home.

00:21:50.560 I've got to go home.

00:21:53.140 How old were you at this time?

00:21:55.060 Like 11.

00:21:56.020 At 11 years old.

00:21:56.760 Yeah.

00:21:57.200 So then I went around to all the people that promised to pay me five pence a lap.

00:22:01.520 I'm like, go and I've got 45.

00:22:03.200 What?

00:22:04.700 How much money?

00:22:05.660 I've got to pay you 45 laps.

00:22:07.740 Is that real?

00:22:08.460 I'm like, yeah, the teacher signed it there.

00:22:10.080 Look, you know.

00:22:11.280 But I don't even, didn't even occur to me that it was unusual at the time.

00:22:16.160 And another thing we got in England is called Bonfire Night, November the 5th.

00:22:21.060 Celebrating burning a guy on a bonfire because he tried to blow up the Houses of Parliament.

00:22:26.480 But when you're a kid, you don't realize that's kind of a sick thing to do.

00:22:29.300 Burning a guy?

00:22:30.000 Yeah, like you build a dummy like a man because the guy, he was called Guy Fawkes and he tried

00:22:36.520 to blow up the British Parliament.

00:22:37.900 So they caught him and that was his punishment, right?

00:22:40.000 So every year on November the 5th, it was like a big thing.

00:22:42.900 You have a party, you know, cook food and you have the big bonfire and you put the guy

00:22:47.200 on top and you have fireworks and everything.

00:22:49.880 So I wanted to build a big bonfire and I had this little pony.

00:22:53.960 It's like 10 or 11 years old.

00:22:55.380 I had an axe and my horse and I went and I chopped trees down, tied a rope to the trees

00:23:00.900 and dragged the trees with my horse and build this big bonfire all on my own.

00:23:05.880 And I look back now and I was like, man, that was, that was crazy you were doing that.

00:23:10.280 But it just seemed normal and nobody was like, you know, parents weren't saying like, wow,

00:23:14.480 that's, well done, you did something, it was just like normal.

00:23:17.580 So you weren't doing it for recognition.

00:23:19.100 I had this focus, yeah, I had this focus.

00:23:21.180 But it wasn't for recognition, it was?

00:23:22.720 No, it wasn't.

00:23:23.920 I just wanted to do it.

00:23:24.720 Did you have a relationship with your, like, because the one part I'm curious about is

00:23:28.060 I know my upbringing, you know, I was born and raised in Iran 10 years and I lived at

00:23:32.200 a refugee camp two years in Germany, the whole war with Iran-Iraq.

00:23:35.620 There was an element of me wanting to prove and win against the odds.

00:23:41.880 They didn't believe I could do it, et cetera, et cetera.

00:23:43.960 What was your relationship like with your mom and what was your relationship like with

00:23:47.260 your dad?

00:23:48.280 Well, I was probably closer to my mom because my mom was there on a daily basis.

00:23:51.780 My dad was in and out.

00:23:54.060 He wasn't really at home that much.

00:23:55.500 He was to kind of just do his own thing.

00:23:57.480 So maybe I was.

00:23:58.420 I don't know.

00:23:58.740 Maybe I was trying to get my dad's attention.

00:24:00.480 I'm not really sure.

00:24:01.400 But I just always had that, like, tenacity.

00:24:05.380 If I'm doing something, I just do it.

00:24:06.940 And I don't think, wow, that must be hard work.

00:24:09.180 I don't really think about it.

00:24:10.260 I just do it.

00:24:10.900 But after my father passed away, I'm sure that was a driving factor to succeed.

00:24:18.300 And I spoke to quite a few people that, you know, had some trauma or loss while they were

00:24:22.680 earlier on.

00:24:23.180 That gives them the drive.

00:24:25.100 Maybe you're looking for that recognition.

00:24:26.620 Maybe you're looking for that love or feedback that you didn't get earlier on.

00:24:31.740 I'm not quite sure.

00:24:32.540 But we all got these things in our lives, traumas, incidents.

00:24:37.020 And it's like whether you're going to use it or it's going to affect you in a positive

00:24:39.980 or a negative way.

00:24:41.440 So I took that and I used that fuel, whatever it was.

00:24:45.740 And maybe it was anger there as well.

00:24:47.280 I'm sure there was a lot of anger there that my father died and I didn't feel like anyone

00:24:51.440 really helped me through that.

00:24:53.160 Or I didn't really process it.

00:24:55.000 We didn't talk about it, you know.

00:24:57.120 So probably I used all that.

00:24:59.480 That energy could go in a negative way, you know.

00:25:02.540 People get into alcohol and drugs and addiction and behaviors because of those things.

00:25:09.380 Do you have a lot of friends that did, that went a completely different route?

00:25:12.060 Yeah, I mean, when I was a teenager, I was like off the rails a little bit for a couple

00:25:16.880 of years and I got sent to a detention center, which is basically a youth jail facility.

00:25:22.500 When I was in there, I was realized like, fuck this.

00:25:24.840 I don't want to be, I don't belong here at all.

00:25:27.020 How old were you at this time when you were saying this?

00:25:28.160 18, 18.

00:25:29.220 Oh, you're 18 already.

00:25:30.100 Yeah, but you know, I'm like, I could see, first of all, I was smarter than the people

00:25:34.760 in there.

00:25:35.680 And then we were in the gym.

00:25:37.360 Went to the gym and I was like, I was killing everybody in the gym and I had the best physique

00:25:41.240 and just like, wow, this is something I can be good at.

00:25:44.420 I did a little bit of weights before.

00:25:45.780 I did karate and I had this foundation.

00:25:47.900 And so, yeah, I saw the people around me and some of the people I grew up with, they're

00:25:54.560 not here, you know, some drug overdoses, some suicides.

00:25:59.520 You were friends.

00:26:00.240 Yeah.

00:26:00.620 And some people still in jail or in and out of jail.

00:26:03.880 So, that's the, what I grew up around.

00:26:08.320 I had no family backing, really.

00:26:11.340 No education, not much prospects.

00:26:13.960 So, I found this thing that was just, first of all, I was naturally inclined to it.

00:26:19.000 And secondly, I found it fascinating.

00:26:21.040 Like, the process of how you can change your body with the training and the diet and what's

00:26:25.620 the best way to do it, what's the best way to eat.

00:26:28.400 And I got to figure all this stuff out myself.

00:26:31.640 And that was fascinating for me.

00:26:32.600 Who were you in high school?

00:26:33.500 If I was in high school with you, we were 14, 15, 16 years old, who's doing eights?

00:26:39.020 Pretty shy, but still in, like, I would be in with a group that would be, I don't know,

00:26:46.200 most popular or, like, you know, a little bit tough guys that people look up.

00:26:51.500 So, I'd be in that group.

00:26:53.440 But at the same time, I was always being a bit of a loner.

00:26:57.140 So, I'd be in the group, but I'd be out of the group.

00:26:59.580 So, I'd always kind of, like, do my own thing.

00:27:02.260 And even then, when we're, like, 17, 18, and we used to go to concerts and things like

00:27:07.280 this, I'll be the one that organized everything.

00:27:10.320 I'll make sure we got the tickets and I'll check the transport.

00:27:13.300 And so, I was always kind of, like, a little general.

00:27:16.680 How old were you at your first girlfriend?

00:27:18.240 First experience with a girl, how old were you?

00:27:20.760 Really curious.

00:27:21.760 Like, 12 years old.

00:27:22.740 Oh, so you started early as well?

00:27:24.060 Yeah.

00:27:24.460 I mean, my mom, she, we had a few horses, right?

00:27:28.560 So, she used to do horse riding lessons.

00:27:30.940 So, who does horse riding?

00:27:32.500 Young girls.

00:27:33.120 So, I get the girls coming to the place all the time.

00:27:36.440 I like that strategy.

00:27:37.880 Brilliant.

00:27:38.540 Yeah.

00:27:38.920 So, your shyness didn't bleed into you knowing that you like girls and you're going to go

00:27:43.180 up to them and you're going to, you know.

00:27:44.360 No, I got interested in girls pretty young.

00:27:46.380 Pretty young.

00:27:46.800 Okay.

00:27:47.340 And, and Birmingham, based on the study I did a little bit on Birmingham, I mean, Birmingham's

00:27:51.100 got reputation with gangs with, back in the days, with Birmingham, I think it's called

00:27:54.980 Birmingham Boys or the Peaky Blinders or some of these guys you read about.

00:27:58.340 Yeah.

00:27:58.700 They've got a series now called Peaky Blinders.

00:28:01.320 So, that's based on, like, 1920s Birmingham.

00:28:04.980 I think it's put Birmingham on the map a little bit.

00:28:06.780 Like, people watch that series and they're like, Birmingham, ah, they've never heard

00:28:10.060 of it before.

00:28:10.700 Or maybe they've heard of Birmingham, Alabama, you know.

00:28:12.560 I ask that because I went to UK, I went to London and I spent a day with Katie Hopkins.

00:28:18.060 I don't know if you know Katie Hopkins.

00:28:19.400 You may or may not like her.

00:28:20.540 She's like a Nigel Farage type of a personality.

00:28:24.100 And then with a guy named Sean Atwood and then David Courtney.

00:28:27.920 I know Dave Courtney.

00:28:29.040 Dave Courtney, I think he used to do security for the Cray Twins.

00:28:32.720 Yeah, he used to be involved in a big security company in London and, you know, he's known

00:28:38.300 as the Celebrity Gangster.

00:28:39.780 Celebrity Gangster, yes.

00:28:40.980 He writes books and everything like that.

00:28:42.400 Very entertaining.

00:28:43.380 Which is a pretty interesting combination, Celebrity Gangster.

00:28:45.860 Yeah, it's a, what's it, like, oxymoron or something?

00:28:48.400 It's an oxymoron because you kind of got to be there.

00:28:50.220 Yeah, but, you know, now he can't be a gangster because it's very public.

00:28:54.500 So, I'm sure he got all the connections and everything already.

00:28:57.380 Doesn't matter today.

00:28:58.620 Did they ever reach out to you?

00:28:59.720 I know because I think the Cray Twins, they died in the late 90s or 2000.

00:29:04.000 When you won, was it kind of like, hey, we're proud that you're coming from UK?

00:29:07.200 Was there any of that or no?

00:29:08.320 They never reached out.

00:29:09.020 I actually spoke to Reggie Cray on the phone one time, which was a bit surreal.

00:29:15.400 Because I read all the books and everything when I was a kid, right?

00:29:17.440 I'm wondering, yeah.

00:29:18.200 They're famous.

00:29:19.780 I think the book was called Professional Violence that I read when I was at school.

00:29:24.320 You know, they're like mythical characters in England.

00:29:27.400 And somebody came to the gym, a bodybuilder came to the gym, and they said,

00:29:31.680 we're organizing this contest.

00:29:34.880 And the profit from the contest is going to go to boys' boxing clubs in the East End of London.

00:29:40.460 And the Crays are, you know, involved in this.

00:29:42.880 And so it's for charity, for the Crays charity, they're opening boxing clubs or something for kids.

00:29:49.140 Will you come along and do something and do guest posing or something?

00:29:52.160 So I said, sure, man, if it's, you know, if it's going for a good cause.

00:29:55.880 And then this guy at the gym picked up the phone and said, I want to speak to Doreen.

00:30:01.020 He's like, who is it?

00:30:02.260 It's Reggie Cray.

00:30:03.240 He's like, no, son.

00:30:05.220 It's Reggie Cray.

00:30:06.920 So, okay.

00:30:08.620 He gave it to me.

00:30:09.400 And I had a little chat with him.

00:30:10.500 And I was like thanking me for doing that.

00:30:12.460 And if there's anything you need, son, anything at all, you know, you let me know.

00:30:18.100 And so, yeah, it was a little surreal moment.

00:30:21.280 Anything you need.

00:30:22.240 Yeah.

00:30:22.620 That can go many different ways.

00:30:24.460 How old were you at the time when that phone call was made from Reggie?

00:30:27.080 I was, I think I was Mr. Olympus.

00:30:29.740 I would have been like 30 or something.

00:30:31.300 Okay, you're already a name.

00:30:32.640 Yeah, that's why they wanted me to guest pose.

00:30:35.540 I got it.

00:30:36.180 You know, I'd bring people in.

00:30:37.300 I was thinking because you were Mr. Britton, I'm thinking like after that, hey, come on in,

00:30:41.000 I had a champion.

00:30:41.600 No, Mr. Britton's not such a big deal.

00:30:43.860 I mean, I remember I won the British championship, 1986, yeah.

00:30:47.820 So, I'm British champion, British champion.

00:30:50.180 Got the trophy, go home.

00:30:53.120 I got this council apartment, which council in England is like, it's from the city, you

00:30:57.940 know, like projects or something.

00:30:59.020 So, I got this council flat.

00:31:01.340 I got no carpet on the floor.

00:31:03.160 I don't have a proper bed.

00:31:04.080 I just got a mattress.

00:31:05.420 I don't have any car because every penny that I earned from my work and it's just going for

00:31:10.900 food, training, catching the bus back and forward, whatever.

00:31:15.840 I don't have any money for a car.

00:31:17.060 So, here I am, back in my same apartment with my trophy.

00:31:22.180 I'd just been 2,000, 3,000 people screaming, going crazy.

00:31:25.780 I got my trophy and British champion, but still in the same situation.

00:31:30.220 So, it took some time to get out of that.

00:31:33.120 Someone backed me in opening the gym, opening Temple Gym, because I was British champion.

00:31:39.060 So, that was my first leg up.

00:31:41.080 I started, you know, then to make an income from bodybuilding.

00:31:45.580 Is that 87?

00:31:46.440 What year is Temple?

00:31:47.460 87 we opened, yeah.

00:31:49.080 And 88 I won the British championship again and the whole, the overall thing.

00:31:53.320 And that's when I was eligible to turn pro and go compete, which really at that point is,

00:32:00.180 you know, bodybuilding is more international now.

00:32:01.760 At that point, it was really like an American sport.

00:32:03.820 There was not that many successful people outside of the States.

00:32:07.840 Got it.

00:32:08.400 So, at this point, Arnold has come here.

00:32:11.140 He has won his from Austria, but it's still not an international sport.

00:32:14.980 It's still mainly U.S.

00:32:16.440 Weider is running the whole thing.

00:32:17.940 You come out here, was your first Mr. O with Haney, when Haney, was that the first one

00:32:24.960 where you stood on the stage?

00:32:26.000 That was his first Mr. Olympia, yeah.

00:32:27.540 How was that experience for you standing next to Haney?

00:32:29.840 Well, this is another funny story.

00:32:31.880 I was telling my friend the other day, so it comes to mind.

00:32:35.180 So, Lee Haney is Mr. Olympia.

00:32:37.340 When I'm starting out, right?

00:32:39.440 So, this is the guy that I'm looking at.

00:32:40.780 He's Mr. Olympia.

00:32:41.920 Plus, he's a family man.

00:32:43.560 And, you know, he's big.

00:32:45.280 I saw him guest pose in England.

00:32:46.580 He's an inspiration, big guy.

00:32:49.000 So, I'm a fan, basically.

00:32:51.580 But now, I'm going to go compete against him.

00:32:54.620 So, I realized I can't be a fan anymore, man.

00:32:57.380 I've got to get a little bit ruthless here, yeah?

00:32:59.720 It's changed my mind, right?

00:33:04.240 Maybe I can beat this guy.

00:33:06.260 Maybe I'm better than him.

00:33:07.780 Why not?

00:33:10.200 Sure, he doesn't train as hard as you.

00:33:12.060 So, you know, this process is going on.

00:33:13.720 Until I'm, like, got into a mind space where, right, I'm going to go, and I'm going to try and beat this guy.

00:33:21.020 I don't know if I will or if I won't, but I'm going to give him my best shot, and I'm going there with this positive attitude.

00:33:25.300 I'm not going there as a fanboy.

00:33:27.480 So, I already was in that frame of mind.

00:33:29.340 And, you know, when I compete, I'm very focused, almost to, like, quiet aggressiveness.

00:33:37.740 So, there was a guy in New York telling me a story, which I found out later is total bullshit, right?

00:33:42.000 Well, he told me the story.

00:33:43.280 And he's the only guy I knew at this point.

00:33:45.200 I didn't know many people in the American bodybuilding community.

00:33:47.560 So, there's this gym owner in New York that was my contact, right?

00:33:50.820 And he knew everybody, knew all the people.

00:33:52.580 I didn't know anybody.

00:33:54.100 So, he's telling me stuff.

00:33:55.680 I'm believing him.

00:33:57.020 So, he's, like, you've got to watch out for Haney on stage.

00:33:59.920 He's a bully.

00:34:01.420 I say, what do you mean?

00:34:02.960 Ah, you know, he'll try to intimidate you.

00:34:05.220 He'll bang into you a little bit.

00:34:06.660 He might tread on your toe or something.

00:34:09.180 You know, he'll just want to, like, bully you and own the stage, man.

00:34:11.860 I'm, like, what?

00:34:13.040 He's not doing that shit to me, man.

00:34:14.540 I'm getting all psyched up and everything, right?

00:34:17.340 So, I've gone to Mr. Olympia.

00:34:18.780 My first Mr. Olympia, right?

00:34:21.320 I'm psyched.

00:34:22.120 I'm on the stage.

00:34:23.840 And there's a call out.

00:34:24.980 It's just me and Haney, which is unusual.

00:34:27.000 Two guys, right?

00:34:27.800 So, it's obvious this is a showdown, right, for first and second.

00:34:31.140 So, I'll start to walk out.

00:34:32.860 And Lee's giving me the, you know, friendly smile.

00:34:35.720 I'll give him a stone face.

00:34:38.040 Then I've walked out.

00:34:39.180 And, you know, you come and you go in this kind of relaxed, semi-relaxed pose.

00:34:42.020 So, I went into the semi-relaxed pose.

00:34:43.860 And on purpose, I properly banged my elbow into him.

00:34:47.520 Yeah?

00:34:47.880 And he must have been, what the hell is this crazy guy?

00:34:51.900 Is this on video?

00:34:53.180 Like...

00:34:53.720 I don't know.

00:34:54.360 If you get video of the pre-judging, you might get that.

00:34:56.220 That's great.

00:34:56.700 Yeah, you might get that.

00:34:57.980 Yeah.

00:34:58.180 So, I banged into him.

00:34:59.200 And I did it a couple of times to let him know, you know.

00:35:02.000 And then in the pose down, Lee Haney does this pose where he brings out his arms like this.

00:35:06.480 And I was behind.

00:35:07.380 And I know he kind of got me out of the corner of his eye.

00:35:10.020 And he clipped me with his knuckle.

00:35:12.160 I think he was like, okay, have some back, you know.

00:35:15.420 And then, it was years and years afterwards, I sat down with him and got a chance.

00:35:20.080 You know, we don't see each other that often.

00:35:22.380 We were at a show and I got a chance to sit down and talk one-on-one.

00:35:25.400 And I'm like, Lee, I need to talk to you about something.

00:35:27.460 He's like, what's that?

00:35:28.760 I'm like, I kind of need to apologize for something.

00:35:31.100 He's like, what?

00:35:31.840 I said, do you remember that limp here?

00:35:34.060 And I came and I bang and this.

00:35:35.180 And he's like, yeah, I thought you wanted to fight me or something, man.

00:35:37.740 He said this.

00:35:38.320 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:35:38.600 So, he remembers it as well.

00:35:39.600 Yeah, yeah.

00:35:40.060 I'm like, yeah, well, this happened.

00:35:42.580 And, you know, it was a bullshit story.

00:35:43.880 And I'm young and I'm psyched up and I'm sorry.

00:35:46.680 Because he's just a gentleman.

00:35:48.020 He's a lovely guy.

00:35:49.000 I hear he was a very much of a gentleman.

00:35:50.960 He was a cool man.

00:35:51.780 He was a real gentleman.

00:35:52.920 So, the story was totally bullshit.

00:35:56.460 But I took it on board.

00:35:57.440 That's a sick story, by the way.

00:35:58.720 I love the fact that the guy from New York told you this.

00:36:01.480 Was he like your agent or manager or no?

00:36:03.320 He wanted to be, but he was just a guy that was full of money.

00:36:05.180 Oh, shit.

00:36:05.520 And I didn't know.

00:36:07.040 But he got into you.

00:36:08.260 Yeah, he got to me at that point.

00:36:09.340 Which is good.

00:36:09.880 How common was that?

00:36:11.020 Because, you know, when you hear what Arnold psychologically destroys Lou Ferrigno and he

00:36:15.100 says, hey, you look like you're six weeks out or four weeks out.

00:36:17.260 You look like you need some more time.

00:36:18.340 You should have it in a month for him.

00:36:19.880 He's not even in shape yet.

00:36:21.040 He didn't get the timing right.

00:36:22.600 I don't know.

00:36:23.060 You know, there's some of that there, obviously.

00:36:25.640 But some of that was for the movie, for the drama, for the camera.

00:36:29.140 Is there any of that?

00:36:29.860 The same thing is about saying, like, when you get a pump, it's like coming.

00:36:33.320 There's fucking nothing like coming, man.

00:36:34.820 I mean, if I'm under that squat bar, it's horrible.

00:36:36.740 There's fucking torture.

00:36:38.020 There's nothing like coming.

00:36:39.780 Let me tell you about, you know, you want to sell it to the public?

00:36:44.060 You got to sell it.

00:36:44.760 That's a good one.

00:36:45.620 How much of that did you have to prevent while you're getting prepared for competition?

00:36:49.020 Was it like, babe, I can't have sex for the next 90 days?

00:36:50.980 It wasn't anything like that.

00:36:52.100 It was no, like, boxing or something where they're trying to retain that energy or whatever.

00:36:58.560 There was no real reason to do that.

00:37:01.480 But it happened anyway from just complete exhaustion.

00:37:05.100 Like, I was completely exhausted, like, the last four or five weeks before Mr. Olympia,

00:37:10.720 and sex was just, like, something that was not, my body was just on survival mode, man.

00:37:15.340 It's not interested in trying to procreate and not at all.

00:37:18.800 No, thank you.

00:37:19.520 Not, no energy.

00:37:21.220 I go to the gym.

00:37:22.880 I put everything.

00:37:24.480 And then I come home, I'll be, like, literally like this.

00:37:27.860 Because, you know, it's the only sport where you're eating less.

00:37:31.860 You're eating less calories.

00:37:33.040 You're giving your body less fuel.

00:37:34.240 And you're doing more training and harder training.

00:37:36.140 And, you know, you're trying to get contradictory goal of maximum muscle mass and minimum body fat.

00:37:44.340 It's totally contradictory.

00:37:45.920 And you're trying to balance that.

00:37:47.020 And it's exhausting.

00:37:48.660 Are you able to at all have sex when you're going down to 4%, 5%, 6%, 3% body fat?

00:37:53.680 I mean, is there any...

00:37:54.680 There was no inclination.

00:37:56.340 There's no drive.

00:37:57.120 There's no interest.

00:37:58.260 I mean, I literally, like, get that tired.

00:38:00.700 It's even tiring just to talk sometimes.

00:38:03.500 You don't even want to talk.

00:38:04.640 Yeah, I remember one of the pictures where you, you know, you said at the lowest level was, what, 3.5% or maybe 3% because you couldn't even measure it?

00:38:12.700 Yeah, there's skin fault calipers that I was using.

00:38:15.400 And that would get down to, like, 3.5% about four or five weeks out.

00:38:19.820 And I know I got leaner after that.

00:38:22.000 But it wasn't at registering.

00:38:23.280 Where are you at here?

00:38:24.060 What would you say you are here?

00:38:25.780 I don't know.

00:38:26.480 But this is about four weeks out from Mr. Olympia.

00:38:29.160 So, this, if you look at the condition in here, this would probably be superior to most of the guys on the stage now.

00:38:34.420 This looks ready.

00:38:34.880 This looks competition.

00:38:36.020 This is four weeks out.

00:38:37.180 This is ready.

00:38:37.660 This is ready.

00:38:38.580 But I had to go extra on top of that.

00:38:41.360 I always kind of, like, I was known as a mass monster.

00:38:45.080 One of the first mass monsters.

00:38:46.160 Because of the muscle mass I carried.

00:38:48.280 But I always competed below what I potentially could do.

00:38:52.580 Because I wanted to be super shredded.

00:38:54.280 I just didn't want to be big and okay.

00:38:57.200 Say that one more time.

00:38:57.940 You always competed below?

00:38:59.360 Below my potential size.

00:39:01.480 Because I wanted to be absolutely shredded.

00:39:03.860 I wanted to be, you know, dry and shredded as well as big.

00:39:08.060 Not just big.

00:39:09.020 So, I probably always overdid things.

00:39:12.640 I never underdid things.

00:39:13.720 I always overdid things.

00:39:15.260 So, this is four to six weeks out.

00:39:17.360 This is not.

00:39:18.020 But you, in today's world.

00:39:19.580 That would definitely be.

00:39:20.000 If you went up against Curry today, you'd be ready to be on stage with them competing today.

00:39:24.420 Yeah.

00:39:24.620 There's more separation there if you look.

00:39:26.660 I got more separation already.

00:39:28.820 And that's four weeks out.

00:39:30.240 Yeah.

00:39:30.560 Was it almost annoying to be around you?

00:39:32.200 Like, were you getting annoyed by people?

00:39:34.480 I could be, but I kept myself away from them.

00:39:36.420 Because I didn't want to, like.

00:39:37.560 But I'm talking about, like, family.

00:39:39.380 Like, you know, because sometimes being married.

00:39:40.860 You know, I have a laugh with my son about this.

00:39:44.400 Because it was just one incident where I lost it a little bit.

00:39:47.300 I used to take my son and my nephews to Kentucky Fried Chicken or McDonald's on a weekend.

00:39:53.140 And I'd just have a black coffee.

00:39:54.580 And it didn't bother me, right?

00:39:55.940 It didn't bother me.

00:39:58.380 But my son had this, like, ice popsicle lollipop, whatever you call it here in the States.

00:40:04.100 You know?

00:40:05.580 So, he got this thing.

00:40:06.580 And it's got a bit of chocolate on.

00:40:07.640 It's got these little sprinkles on.

00:40:09.020 And then it's got colors.

00:40:10.240 And so, we're watching TV together.

00:40:12.300 And he's like, and he's, like, just savoring this thing for so long.

00:40:18.440 It's just, like, and it just drove me crazy.

00:40:20.240 And they're like, son, say what?

00:40:22.220 I said, please take that in the kitchen and eat it, man.

00:40:25.300 Take it in the kitchen and eat it, please.

00:40:26.720 To that point.

00:40:27.300 Yeah, at that one point, I just lusted a little bit.

00:40:29.500 So, we laugh about that now, you know?

00:40:31.660 But it's just one incident.

00:40:33.220 So, I was.

00:40:33.560 For the most part, you're pretty calm.

00:40:34.380 You know, I was like, look, I'm choosing to do this, yeah?

00:40:36.840 I'm choosing to do this.

00:40:38.000 I'm choosing to put my body through this.

00:40:39.780 So, it's not fair for me to take out any kind of, like, frustrations or, you know, moods out on other people.

00:40:47.500 So, I pretty isolated myself when I was at home.

00:40:50.940 And most of the time, I was cool.

00:40:53.400 Just, you know, just keep it to myself.

00:40:55.460 What is it like being married to a type A competitor?

00:41:00.300 You're not in the 1% category.

00:41:02.580 You're not in the 1% of 1% category.

00:41:05.280 You're in the 1% of 1% of 1% of 1%.

00:41:07.820 7 billion people living in the world.

00:41:09.900 There's only one Mr. Olympia.

00:41:10.980 There's a lot of people that are trying to be bodybuilders.

00:41:13.720 What is it to be married to that guy who is, like, a scientist like you that's paying attention to detail,

00:41:19.880 saying, this is four weeks out and I still want to go lower.

00:41:23.540 How was that part?

00:41:24.960 Was it difficult?

00:41:26.180 Was it annoying?

00:41:26.980 Was it like, you know.

00:41:27.760 For my wife?

00:41:28.480 For any, yeah, for your wife being around you.

00:41:30.980 I'm married as well.

00:41:31.880 I'm asking you because this is.

00:41:33.040 Well, the thing is, we met around about the time that I just started training and not planned at all.

00:41:44.520 We had a child.

00:41:46.620 Lewis.

00:41:47.260 Lewis, together.

00:41:49.720 So Debbie, who is my wife, she's seen the whole thing, right?

00:41:53.820 And at first she didn't understand it.

00:41:56.000 Nobody understood it.

00:41:57.380 What the hell are you doing?

00:41:58.780 And why are you eating like a robot every two and a half and three hours and doing this?

00:42:02.940 And what's this all about, right?

00:42:06.180 But fortunately, I was successful very quickly.

00:42:12.000 After a year and a half's training, I went to compete on a novice contest.

00:42:15.960 Absolutely, like, I didn't know at the time.

00:42:18.420 I just thought that this is where I need to be.

00:42:20.140 But now I look back, it's like there's no comparison.

00:42:22.460 I won the contest so easily.

00:42:24.740 Then I had, like, judges and officials.

00:42:26.600 There was one guy, Ron Davis, who was, he used to judge at the Mr. Olympia.

00:42:30.980 And he was the head of the federation in England.

00:42:32.640 He was there and he was, Dorian, nice to me.

00:42:35.740 Where are you from?

00:42:36.540 I'm like, from Birmingham.

00:42:37.520 What are you doing in the novice class?

00:42:39.960 Well, I'm a novice.

00:42:40.900 It's my first contest.

00:42:42.040 So, well, you should be in the heavyweight class.

00:42:44.400 No, no, no.

00:42:44.880 I'm not good enough for that yet.

00:42:48.380 He's not good enough.

00:42:49.800 He started laughing like he's not good enough.

00:42:51.680 Wow.

00:42:51.800 Kid, you're the best heavyweight we've seen in this country.

00:42:56.000 I'm like, no, this guy and this guy, surely they're better than me.

00:42:58.840 No.

00:43:00.640 So, we want you to come and compete in the world games, like, next week on the British team

00:43:05.760 as a heavyweight.

00:43:06.520 And this is the world championship.

00:43:07.900 Next week?

00:43:08.620 Yeah, the world championship.

00:43:09.920 And I didn't want to go because I knew I wasn't ready to win that yet.

00:43:13.660 And what's the point of going if I'm not ready to win?

00:43:15.840 That was my whole mentality from the start.

00:43:17.620 Well, they kind of persuaded me to go on the team.

00:43:21.060 So, I went and I got seventh place there and 13 guys.

00:43:25.200 And these were, like, the best amateurs in the world.

00:43:27.800 How old were you at this time?

00:43:28.580 If I was going to turn pro.

00:43:30.460 23.

00:43:31.180 23.

00:43:31.640 23.

00:43:32.140 So, I started training properly when I was 21.

00:43:33.980 23.

00:43:35.740 You know, the massive recognition at the first show.

00:43:38.960 I got my first magazine article.

00:43:41.000 I'm going to the world championship and get seventh place there after training a year and

00:43:46.280 a half.

00:43:46.400 Out of 13.

00:43:47.020 So, people around me could recognize, oh, this is not a waste of time now.

00:43:53.180 This guy is, you know, it's not a pipe dream.

00:43:57.000 It's like Debbie then understood what I was doing and got behind me fully.

00:44:00.700 And she always was behind me and had great faith in what I was doing.

00:44:06.160 And when I went to my first pro show, which was in Night of Champions in New York, and I

00:44:13.820 got second place there, which was $7,000.

00:44:17.460 That was my pro earnings, $7,000.

00:44:20.080 And then Vince McMahon from WWE, he started a bodybuilding federation.

00:44:26.040 And Tom Platt, who was my hero, one of my heroes, was like repping, you know, he was the guy that was putting this thing together.

00:44:32.520 And they contacted me because they liked my look, that it was very rugged and, you know, I had a different look.

00:44:38.140 Because they were looking for, like, looks like they got with the wrestlers and different personalities, different looks.

00:44:42.760 And I had this look that was mean.

00:44:43.760 And they flew me out there to Connecticut, where the headquarters is, and gave me a whole tour around, and I had a meeting with Vince McMahon's wife.

00:44:53.620 And they offered me something like $170,000 a year to go and be with that federation.

00:45:00.740 That's money at that time.

00:45:01.900 I had nothing.

00:45:02.780 I had nothing.

00:45:03.440 That's crazy.

00:45:03.860 So I got home to my wife and I said, look, they offered me this.

00:45:08.540 If I take this, we can get a house.

00:45:11.300 We can do this.

00:45:12.080 We can do that.

00:45:12.780 We're living in a, still in a council place, man.

00:45:14.960 I'm a young term pro, but I'm still living in the ghetto, right?

00:45:18.020 Not much money.

00:45:18.700 I got $7,000.

00:45:20.040 And much to her credit, she said, I'm out of this.

00:45:23.640 She said, I've got nothing to say about this.

00:45:25.720 This is entirely your decision to make.

00:45:28.960 So you need to, you know, you need to make the decision.

00:45:32.260 Why did she say that?

00:45:33.220 What's her reasoning for giving it to you?

00:45:36.220 Because if she had said, do it, let's take the money, I probably would have maybe thought, let's do it.

00:45:42.620 I mean, she'd been behind me all this time.

00:45:44.840 The family needs something, man.

00:45:46.580 You know, the family's been behind me and now I got, maybe I should do it for the family.

00:45:51.500 But she said, no, no, you've got to figure this out.

00:45:54.680 And then I was like, you know what?

00:45:57.080 I really, I believe in myself and the Olympia is the Olympia.

00:46:01.780 And I got a feeling, I got a bad feeling about this wrestling federation because the one thing that I was adamant about when I went there, I was like, I'm not a performer.

00:46:11.220 I'm not, you know, if this is going to be like the wrestling where it's like you're a character and the winner's already kind of chosen, I'm not in for that.

00:46:18.720 I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I want to compete.

00:46:21.120 I'm an athlete.

00:46:22.000 I'm a sports person.

00:46:22.780 I want to compete.

00:46:23.520 I want to compete against the best and it's got to be a competition.

00:46:27.000 They assured me it would be like that.

00:46:29.000 But I had my doubts.

00:46:31.600 And then, you know, Mr. Olympia is everybody built his dream.

00:46:35.760 So I'd have to give up on that dream to go with the wrestling federation.

00:46:39.100 So I made a tough decision and I said, I'm going to turn down this money because I got faith in myself and I will get that money and more if I stick to this path and I win Mr. Olympia.

00:46:51.100 So I had to call Tom Platz and say no to Tom Platz, which is.

00:46:55.040 And this is somebody you admire.

00:46:56.300 It's like, I'm such a fan of Tom Platz.

00:46:59.680 I remember the first time I met him and I must have had like, because it happens to me.

00:47:03.020 And I say to people, don't worry, man.

00:47:04.460 It happened to me when I was a kid because they come to me and they're like, I got a thousand.

00:47:09.100 I got a thousand questions for you, but I don't know what to say now.

00:47:11.420 I say, listen, don't worry, man.

00:47:12.460 It happened to me.

00:47:14.260 So I know how you feel.

00:47:15.420 I was a fan.

00:47:16.560 I met Tom Platz.

00:47:17.380 I had a thousand questions and I was like, hello.

00:47:22.060 And that was it.

00:47:23.680 I think Dorian Yates to me is one of the all-time greatest bylaws that ever existed.

00:47:30.660 So I had to call Tom Platz and say, Tom, I thought this through and I'm going to have to decline the offer.

00:47:35.660 I think I can be Mr. Olympia and I'm going to keep on this path.

00:47:40.780 And Tom's never been Mr. Olympia.

00:47:42.340 He had the quads, but he never won Mr. Olympia.

00:47:44.420 No, he didn't.

00:47:45.020 He got second or third, I think, in 81, which was controversial because Franco Colombo won that with still a very badly damaged leg from the injury he got in World's Strongest Man.

00:47:57.360 So that was probably one of the most controversial Mr. Olympias along with the 1980 that Arnold won in Australia.

00:48:05.900 The one that when he got on stage, you know, a lot of experts said he didn't look like he was ready to win the whole thing.

00:48:11.100 No, I don't know.

00:48:11.920 I mean, look at pictures and it's not a lot of video around because I think Arnold brought it all up.

00:48:16.420 So you can't watch it anymore.

00:48:18.020 But you can see some pictures and Arnold definitely was not at his best, but still Arnold is impressive on stage.

00:48:25.240 He's a big man.

00:48:26.040 He's tall and he's wide and make the other guys look a little bit small.

00:48:28.960 So I don't know if he should have won or not.

00:48:30.620 I mean, I can't really say I wasn't there.

00:48:32.120 Do you think a guy like that could win today?

00:48:33.500 Because right now it's what?

00:48:34.420 You said 212, right?

00:48:35.380 You said 212, right?

00:48:36.620 And he was 225 at 6.25.

00:48:39.440 Maybe 235.

00:48:39.720 Maybe 235 at his best.

00:48:41.480 But at 6.25.

00:48:42.520 That's skinny compared to today.

00:48:46.940 But he was still head and shoulders the best at the time with what was available as far as training knowledge and, let's be honest, pharmaceuticals and so on that were used.

00:49:00.160 So if you took Arnold and you put him in today's or, you know, the 90s or whatever and with a better training knowledge we have and more pharmaceuticals that we were using and so on,

00:49:11.800 he would have been bigger.

00:49:12.920 Yeah, that's a good point.

00:49:13.780 I mean, he's great genetically.

00:49:15.080 He's Arnold's, like, specimen.

00:49:17.060 He's got these pecs and biceps still and he's, like, 70-something years old.

00:49:21.860 Whether his legs and back would be up to today's standard, I don't know.

00:49:28.480 The chest that he had, he looked like he needs to wear bra half the time.

00:49:31.860 I mean, still no one's got pecs like that.

00:49:34.280 It's just phenomenal.

00:49:35.720 Pecs and biceps is, like, still can't be matched.

00:49:37.780 He could have gone to Vegas and been a stripper.

00:49:39.680 Yeah.

00:49:39.960 With those pecs that he had.

00:49:41.900 But that's a whole different.

00:49:42.500 By the way, your relationship with Arnold, how was that with the two of you guys?

00:49:46.020 Because, you know, again.

00:49:47.300 We don't really have much of a relationship.

00:49:51.880 I've never, I haven't really spoken to Arnold that much.

00:49:55.220 Have you guys ever had a sit-down?

00:49:56.840 Ever had a conversation?

00:49:57.480 No, we've never had a sit-down.

00:49:58.440 Ever?

00:49:58.720 Never had a sit-down.

00:50:01.880 And I've never, all other bodybuilders idolize Arnold and they seek him out because maybe we can do something for them or whatever.

00:50:09.700 I never did that.

00:50:12.080 I'm my own man, so I don't go to try to kiss anyone's ass.

00:50:17.360 But you had a reaction like that to Platts.

00:50:19.620 How come you didn't have that to him?

00:50:21.400 Because Arnold was not really from my era.

00:50:23.840 It was from the 70s and, you know, I grew up and started bodybuilding in the 80s.

00:50:27.640 So I was looking at the current guys, which was Mensa and Platts and maybe also something about Arnold's personality that didn't really jive with me.

00:50:36.440 Was Arthur Jones, the founder of Nautilus, I think at one point they were doing 400 million years, was he an Arnold fan?

00:50:42.860 I don't really know.

00:50:43.880 I know Arnold went out there to train.

00:50:45.580 He had a facility out there in Florida and I think Arthur Jones said he didn't like it.

00:50:50.880 That's why I asked the question because I wonder, because Arthur Jones' personality seems like your personality a little bit.

00:50:58.000 I don't know if it is or not.

00:50:59.020 I could be wrong.

00:50:59.880 I don't know too much about personality, but I read all his books and it just resonated with me.

00:51:04.400 Like this is logic, man.

00:51:05.440 He's a very...

00:51:06.340 This makes sense.

00:51:07.300 Right.

00:51:07.820 First of all, it makes sense.

00:51:09.460 Second, let me do it in practice and see what happens.

00:51:13.380 So it could make great sense, but if I do it and it doesn't work, then what's it worth?

00:51:17.400 It's not worth nothing, right?

00:51:18.700 So I tried it and I experimented and I have kept logs.

00:51:24.700 I've got every single workout that I ever did from 1983 to 1997 written down.

00:51:31.160 Come on.

00:51:31.700 Every single workout.

00:51:33.000 1983 to what?

00:51:34.000 1983 to 97 I wrote down every single workout and there's notes underneath.

00:51:38.460 How much weights did I use?

00:51:39.740 What exercise?

00:51:40.460 How many reps did I do?

00:51:41.700 And then every month I would do a check.

00:51:45.960 I would set goals for the next month.

00:51:48.600 So now I can bench press 300 pounds for eight reps.

00:51:51.260 Next month, I want to be 310.

00:51:53.600 So I would set goals that were realistic.

00:51:55.860 But every month, if they all add up at the end of the year, you got a big thing, right?

00:51:58.960 So it was all very calculated and planned and strategized like a general, like when I was a kid,

00:52:05.340 when we used to go to concerts, I'd be the one that, you know, get the train tickets

00:52:09.340 and the concert tickets and organize everything.

00:52:13.220 All the guys would just turn up and go along.

00:52:15.180 But I'd be the one doing the planning and strategizing.

00:52:18.620 So that's what I was doing.

00:52:20.600 So I could analyze what I was doing.

00:52:23.600 Okay, I'm training three days a week and this is happening.

00:52:26.580 I'm training four days a week.

00:52:28.260 Analyze, analyze what happens.

00:52:29.620 I noticed that if I did increase the volume and the frequency of the workouts, my progress

00:52:37.360 kind of came to a stop.

00:52:39.640 And when I did a little bit less, very intense, really hard training, but less.

00:52:44.640 Shorter workouts, less frequently, I start growing again.

00:52:48.360 And I tell people often that they're stuck.

00:52:50.360 They're stuck in a gym.

00:52:52.460 First thing you need to do, take a week off.

00:52:54.720 Take a week off, come back to a more abbreviated program and come talk to me.

00:53:01.540 All right, I took a week off.

00:53:02.880 Guess what happened when I came back?

00:53:04.300 I was stronger.

00:53:05.640 Oh, no shit, man.

00:53:06.940 Because your body was just like needed the break.

00:53:09.580 You're overtrained.

00:53:10.840 You need a rest, come back, restored, rebuild.

00:53:13.600 You're stronger.

00:53:14.560 Stop overtraining.

00:53:15.860 How long were you in the gym?

00:53:17.140 Like what's your, you know, this misconception.

00:53:19.000 Hour maximum.

00:53:19.700 Maximum hour.

00:53:20.300 Maximum.

00:53:20.780 And were you big cardio or not really?

00:53:23.060 I used to do cardio like a couple of times a week in the off season, just to keep some

00:53:27.080 cardio conditioning, like 30 minutes, two times a week.

00:53:29.440 Oh, but nothing crazy?

00:53:30.360 Nothing crazy.

00:53:31.420 But getting ready for a contest, I do a lot more.

00:53:33.760 But it was low intensity cardio.

00:53:37.020 So it was just basically calorie burning.

00:53:39.060 So I do 45 minutes in the morning on a stationary bike, moderate, heart rate like 115, 120.

00:53:44.920 And in the evening, I do 45 minutes power walking, fast walking.

00:53:51.060 So I had a dog.

00:53:51.920 I had a boxer, yeah?

00:53:52.980 He was real beefed up, chunky boxer.

00:53:56.780 He used to walk with me for a contest.

00:53:58.040 He would also lift weights with you?

00:53:59.440 He didn't want to lift weights, but he'd get ripped before a contest because he had to walk

00:54:03.280 with me every evening.

00:54:04.060 I got it.

00:54:04.520 Yeah, he lost weight.

00:54:05.320 I got it.

00:54:06.240 So we'd go up and down together.

00:54:08.380 You know, Dorian, I've heard a lot of different stories about Joe Weider.

00:54:11.520 You know, if you read the book Total Recall, and Arnold talks about when he first came to

00:54:16.200 the States, and he thought the headquarters of Weider was massive.

00:54:20.680 And he's like, wait a minute.

00:54:21.320 I thought this was a massive building.

00:54:22.680 He says, well, you know, this is the impression that we're some of the one that we're going

00:54:25.460 to be, right?

00:54:26.620 What stories do you have with Joe Weider yourself?

00:54:29.320 Well, it was, when I came on the scene in the 90s, they had the big office in Woodland Hills

00:54:34.640 with, I don't know how many employees, like 50, 60 employees in the magazine place there,

00:54:40.080 covered with American Western art and everything.

00:54:43.980 It was impressive.

00:54:47.160 So I was just recalling one of my visits to the office when I went there, because if I

00:54:52.500 was in town, Joe would always invite me to the office, so we'd go for lunch together.

00:54:55.560 He always liked to spend some time with the champions, as he says.

00:54:59.000 The champions are all my friends, are all my family.

00:55:00.960 So one day I went, and I went into his office, and I'm chatting away, and for some reason

00:55:08.740 he starts showing me pictures of him when he was young, when he used to train and bodybuild.

00:55:14.040 And I'm thinking, well, it's not very impressive.

00:55:17.460 I know he didn't have a great physique, so, but anyway, I'm like, yeah, whatever.

00:55:20.740 I'm not saying too much.

00:55:21.940 Then he pulls out one picture, and it's like a Mos Mosca or something like this, and it

00:55:28.060 was thick and round, and I'm like, wow, Joe, that picture, wow, I'd never seen that one

00:55:33.940 before.

00:55:34.300 It looked great there.

00:55:35.920 So we're chatting away, and afterwards I leave the office, and I bump into Peter McGough,

00:55:42.800 who's the editor of Flex and Muscle and Fitness, and he's from UK, and we've been friends for

00:55:48.140 years.

00:55:48.460 So he's like, how did it go with Joe?

00:55:50.700 I said, yeah, it's okay, man, you know, we're chatting away, and wow, man.

00:55:55.840 He showed me this picture that I'd never seen before when I was younger, and it's actually

00:55:59.400 really big and thick and round, and so Peter says to me, oh, was it this picture, like this,

00:56:05.140 like this pose?

00:56:06.320 Yeah, exactly, that's the one, man.

00:56:07.940 He's like, that's not Joe's body.

00:56:10.660 That's the body of Clancy Ross, who was a, whatever, Mr. America or something in the 50s,

00:56:14.900 and Joe's, like, superimposed his head on top of the body, which I found fascinating

00:56:22.060 because I'd probably be looking at Joe and thinking, wow, look at this guy with his huge

00:56:29.340 company and all his millions and everything.

00:56:31.100 That's amazing.

00:56:31.780 But it's almost, I felt like he would have given eye up just to be Mr. Olympia.

00:56:39.320 Wow.

00:56:39.420 Like, he really wanted to be a bodybuilder, and he had almost like a childlike passion for

00:56:46.740 bodybuilding.

00:56:47.280 So, yeah, people say he was a cold businessman.

00:56:51.800 He was, yeah, he was a businessman.

00:56:54.100 So, if he didn't have to pay you nothing, he wouldn't pay you, right?

00:56:57.380 He was a businessman.

00:56:58.380 He wanted to make maximum return, but he had a genuine love for bodybuilding.

00:57:03.040 He wasn't there just to exploit it.

00:57:04.420 He did love the sport.

00:57:06.380 You felt that when you were younger?

00:57:07.340 I felt that, yeah, like almost like a childlike.

00:57:10.040 He used to come to photo shoots and supervise a photo shoot with me, and the guy's in his

00:57:15.160 late 70s, and I said to him, Joe, what are you doing here?

00:57:20.240 He said, what do you mean I'm doing here?

00:57:21.880 I said, well, you don't need to do this.

00:57:23.380 Why are you here, man?

00:57:24.040 If I was you, I'd be like in the Bahamas.

00:57:26.460 I'd be sitting on a beach or something.

00:57:27.880 I'd be doing something.

00:57:29.140 And he's like, look, this is my passion.

00:57:31.860 This is what I love doing.

00:57:33.120 And if I don't do this, what am I going to do?

00:57:35.760 Curl up and die?

00:57:36.940 So, this is what I do.

00:57:38.320 You've got to respect that.

00:57:39.160 Yeah.

00:57:39.860 It's amazing how he put the picture just for you.

00:57:42.000 Was it a way for you to have the level of respect that, wow, at one point he also had

00:57:46.060 a physique?

00:57:46.280 No, I don't think he made that picture for me.

00:57:48.560 I think it was already, you know, because Peter McGough already knew about it.

00:57:51.900 So, obviously, he had shown it to other people, and they kind of worked it out that you're

00:57:55.820 not going to say anything to Joe, though.

00:57:57.080 He's the boss, right?

00:57:59.380 Yeah, it just showed me that, like, often in life, people have something, but the grass

00:58:07.040 is always greener on the other side.

00:58:08.380 You always want something else.

00:58:09.500 You want what you can have.

00:58:10.720 Yeah.

00:58:11.140 What was your favorite magazine to read, by the way?

00:58:13.240 Muscle Mag, I remember Flex, I remember Muscular Development, I remember Muscle and Fitness,

00:58:17.200 I remember Muscle Media 2000.

00:58:19.720 Yeah.

00:58:20.200 Which one was the one you liked the most?

00:58:22.440 Well, I had such a collection of magazines which got destroyed.

00:58:25.400 I had a flood in my basement one time and just destroyed all my magazines.

00:58:29.500 I had the biggest collection because I collected everyone, everything that was published, every

00:58:35.700 magazine, every book.

00:58:36.780 When I started lifting to when I finished, I had everything.

00:58:41.400 And then I had people gave me stuff.

00:58:44.320 Oh, my brother, my older brother's got these old magazines.

00:58:47.240 So one guy gave me all these little Iron Man, if you remember these very small Iron Man magazines.

00:58:53.360 That's old school.

00:58:53.580 It was really old school and it was very independent and almost like the opposite to Weida, where

00:59:01.240 Weida took bodybuilding and created this illusion.

00:59:05.360 As you say, Arnold went there and expected this big building and it was very small.

00:59:10.060 The same thing, he created this illusion of bodybuilding where you're on the beach with

00:59:14.320 the protein shake and the hot girls and it's like as if it's a lifestyle that we're all

00:59:18.480 doing here.

00:59:20.100 How are you doing that?

00:59:21.080 You've got no money.

00:59:21.800 There's no money in bodybuilding.

00:59:23.860 So it was like an illusion.

00:59:24.820 He was making bodybuilding like cool and trendy and fashionable and desirable, where Iron

00:59:29.780 Man was a bit more like old school and more basic and practical advice.

00:59:33.960 Because of the training advice you got from Joe Weida was Arnold's 20 sets, six times a

00:59:39.980 week and so on.

00:59:40.620 That didn't work.

00:59:41.820 So one was the logic, one was the dream, the possibility, the what if.

00:59:45.760 So I liked the old Iron Man's just for the practical information in there.

00:59:52.160 And Muscle Builder, as it was called, later became Muscle and Fitness.

00:59:57.120 There was no Flex magazine.

00:59:58.280 It was Muscle Builder was the first Weida magazine I saw and that had Robbie Robinson on

01:00:03.480 the front.

01:00:04.160 Who I just, actually we had breakfast together when I was out in LA in his mid-70s and still

01:00:10.720 in great shape.

01:00:11.480 The peak on his biceps never made sense to me.

01:00:14.000 Right?

01:00:14.080 Yeah.

01:00:14.300 The peak on his biceps just like muscle on top of muscles, like a heel on top of it.

01:00:18.140 It just made no sense when you would look at that.

01:00:19.520 Very impressive.

01:00:20.220 Very impressive.

01:00:20.700 You know, that's genetic.

01:00:22.020 It's not some kind of training you can do for that.

01:00:23.820 It's just the shape you're born with.

01:00:27.080 So yeah, it was fascinating to see somebody that was so successful, but you could still

01:00:31.420 see they would love to be something else.

01:00:34.200 But you know, it's something you can't buy.

01:00:37.880 You can't buy genetics that's going to make you into a great bodybuilder.

01:00:41.540 Any experience you had with Bill Phillips with Muscle Media 2000?

01:00:44.640 No, I never met him.

01:00:46.120 Yeah, it's nothing like that.

01:00:46.540 But I'm familiar with the magazine.

01:00:47.960 I used to read it.

01:00:48.580 I used to enjoy it.

01:00:49.640 I thought it was a very good magazine.

01:00:51.280 I thought somebody like you would have liked it because it was actually...

01:00:53.500 They had some scientific stuff in there.

01:00:55.000 Yeah, he would do some stuff that was pretty impressive.

01:00:57.320 Yeah, I read all those magazines.

01:00:58.840 I mean, there probably isn't a magazine published between 83 and 87 that I haven't read.

01:01:05.260 I got a friend of mine who's about my age in Birmingham and runs a gym there.

01:01:10.100 So we've known each other since I started competing.

01:01:13.280 And it has this thing where he'll take a picture of a physique without the head and send

01:01:17.400 it to me and see if I can get it.

01:01:19.060 And, you know, not guys from the Olympia that would be obvious, like guys from Mr. America

01:01:24.760 or something like that.

01:01:25.880 And I don't think he's ever got me like I didn't know who it was.

01:01:29.120 Really?

01:01:29.560 I read so many magazines, like I know everybody.

01:01:32.780 So you're also a historian of the game as well?

01:01:35.200 Yeah, historian and analyzer and historian of physiques and training methods.

01:01:39.960 Anything that could be helpful.

01:01:43.680 How much did you push, by the way?

01:01:45.580 You know, this whole thing about pushing weights.

01:01:47.460 What was your max on bench, on biceps, on squats?

01:01:50.460 What were you...

01:01:50.980 I don't know, man, because I never did a max, like as in a single.

01:01:53.560 Yeah.

01:01:53.660 I can tell you what I did for working sets would be like eight reps.

01:01:56.780 Eight reps.

01:01:58.680 Bench, like 500.

01:01:59.960 Okay.

01:02:00.260 For eight reps.

01:02:02.020 That's sick.

01:02:02.800 Yeah, bench over rows was like 450 or something I was using on there.

01:02:07.020 Squats, I stopped doing, like when I was an amateur, I stopped doing heavy barbell squats

01:02:12.940 because I had an injury.

01:02:14.420 I use mainly machines, so, you know, I don't even know how much is on the leg press, but

01:02:18.120 we had a leg press and then, you know, you've got the bars coming out on the side.

01:02:22.400 So, we had an extension bar.

01:02:25.100 So, we had one, somebody made it where it fits into the hole, then it extends out again

01:02:30.020 so you can put more plates on, and then a bar on the top to put more plates on there.

01:02:34.400 So, I don't know, leg press is probably like 1,500.

01:02:38.060 Deadlifts, I never went heavy on deadlifts.

01:02:40.120 I only did look kind of light, you know, 450, 500 max at the end of a back workout.

01:02:45.960 So, yeah, I was strong.

01:02:47.820 I was shoulder pressing 160 dumbbells for delts, 120-pound dumbbell flies.

01:02:55.460 The way I look at it, the more weight you lift in strict form for a number of reps correlates

01:03:02.320 to how big the muscles are.

01:03:03.940 If you want to get bigger, you've got to get stronger.

01:03:06.520 So, that's why I always kept the records and everything, so I had my targets to achieve.

01:03:11.200 For you, you're super competitive.

01:03:13.500 It's very obvious you're very, very competitive, right?

01:03:17.180 You know, I talked to Kobe, and I asked Kobe versus Jordan, right?

01:03:21.980 There's a couple different differences between those two guys.

01:03:25.340 Kobe wanted to compete purely basketball.

01:03:28.700 Yeah.

01:03:29.040 He could care less about ping pong, about this, about that, about all this other stuff.

01:03:33.240 Jordan wanted to beat you in everything, right?

01:03:36.520 He's kind of like, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that.

01:03:38.000 Yeah.

01:03:38.500 Was your level of competition in one topic that intrigued you the most,

01:03:42.520 and you were not interested in everything else?

01:03:44.420 Is that kind of more your personality?

01:03:45.940 Absolute tunnel vision, yeah.

01:03:47.200 And I didn't have any ambitions to use that as a springboard to something else.

01:03:52.200 In itself was its goal, where Arnold was using bodybuilding to get into movies,

01:03:58.960 and then into politics, and all this kind of stuff, which I have zero interest in.

01:04:04.080 Zero.

01:04:04.340 Zero.

01:04:04.600 So what was your endgame?

01:04:05.740 Like, you're like, I'm going to win six-minster Olympia so I can one day?

01:04:09.580 Well, you know, hopefully change the trajectory of my life, give me some security,

01:04:13.180 and I did think I wanted to get into the gym business, that that's what I wanted to do.

01:04:18.160 Did or didn't?

01:04:19.300 I did.

01:04:19.920 I thought I did, but I realized I didn't, and it's not a great business to get into.

01:04:23.740 So my main business now is sports nutrition.

01:04:27.480 I have DY nutrition, so we're doing sports nutrition, bodybuilding nutrition,

01:04:32.260 and we're now looking to go to get some products for wellness and so on,

01:04:38.220 because if I'm interested in something, I will devour the material.

01:04:42.140 If I'm not, I just can't learn.

01:04:44.320 So I need to be interested.

01:04:45.280 And I'm very interested now in wellness and how nutrition and supplementation can affect health and longevity

01:04:52.920 and also the mental aspect of how you affect your health with your thoughts and so on.

01:04:59.780 So we're going to bring products more out along that line.

01:05:03.680 Looking at CBD, I've been a big supporter of cannabis for decades before it was even, you know,

01:05:09.540 on the radar of being fashionable and accepted almost now.

01:05:14.060 When did you become a supporter of it?

01:05:16.860 Well, I've been a kind of occasional smoker of cannabis since I was a teenager,

01:05:23.240 but I just didn't consider it a recreational thing, like having a beer or a wine or something to relax.

01:05:28.700 And I thought it's probably not that great for you.

01:05:32.280 But at some point after I retired, I started looking for information and finding information about cannabis.

01:05:40.620 And I found out that Rick Simpson that was cured his own cancer and was curing a lot of people,

01:05:44.820 multiple people with cancer with a cannabis extract.

01:05:48.420 And then I found a guy called Robert Malamade, Dr. Malamade, who's a leading researcher on...

01:05:58.560 Is that the UCLA guy or...

01:05:59.620 I'm not sure what university is from, but his speciality, his field that he specializes in is free radicals

01:06:06.960 and how free radicals affect cells and aging and everything like this.

01:06:10.940 And this guy is like a huge advocate of cannabis.

01:06:15.560 And that's his field, his speciality.

01:06:17.820 And it's like there's nothing that works like cannabis for, you know,

01:06:21.680 for killing the free radicals and protecting the cells.

01:06:24.240 Do you read only pro-arguments or you also read anti-arguments of cannabis?

01:06:29.120 I read anti-arguments, if there's one that makes any sense.

01:06:32.320 Has anything ever made sense to you?

01:06:34.380 If there's ever been an argument where you're like, you know, like some of the ones they say...

01:06:37.880 I think it's not a good idea for somebody that's very young, like 15, 16, 17,

01:06:45.260 to be consuming any kind of like mind-altering substance because your brain is still developing.

01:06:51.300 So there may be some vulnerability there at an early age if you're using cannabis or any other kind of...

01:06:57.820 Even alcohol and other substances at that age, I wouldn't probably recommend it.

01:07:02.780 There may be some risk, I think, if you're susceptible in the family to having schizophrenia and stuff.

01:07:11.200 I run a headliner camp in Costa Rica, ayahuasca camp, and we have a disclaimer.

01:07:17.260 If you have any history of schizophrenia or any kind of mental illness in your family,

01:07:21.700 you're not allowed to do it because you're vulnerable.

01:07:24.160 You know, it could be something that tips the balance.

01:07:27.360 So there may be some argument there.

01:07:29.160 I'm not sure if it does influence that or not.

01:07:32.280 Some people say that it might in young people only.

01:07:35.840 So there may be a negative there.

01:07:37.320 Look, I've come to realize nothing in life is black or white.

01:07:43.840 Nothing is all good.

01:07:45.240 Nothing is all bad.

01:07:46.680 So you might have a substance like cannabis that's very beneficial,

01:07:50.380 but in some circumstances it might be a negative.

01:07:53.560 You know, if you're going to overuse it or use it habitually,

01:07:57.460 you're not going to get a lot of things done.

01:08:01.380 So even though I'm a cannabis user, I'm a disciplined user.

01:08:04.760 I'm old enough to be disciplined.

01:08:06.920 I'm not a kid, right?

01:08:08.020 So I'll use it when it's appropriate.

01:08:11.620 I never smoke before.

01:08:12.900 If I'm doing business or if I'm doing appearances or if I'm going to work in a gym,

01:08:16.920 I never do that.

01:08:17.920 I do it when I'm out in the nature or it's time for me to relax.

01:08:22.200 Yeah, I know you also say that every once in a while you take a two-week break.

01:08:26.160 Yeah, I take a month break, actually.

01:08:29.020 A month break.

01:08:30.440 Which I time when I do my Alaska camps.

01:08:33.900 Because anyway, you have to go on a specific diet and clean out to do the camp.

01:08:37.760 You're not allowed to drink.

01:08:39.100 Pre?

01:08:39.400 It's not recommended pre, during, and afterwards.

01:08:42.080 I've got it.

01:08:42.300 So it's probably like three or four weeks' trip at a time.

01:08:46.580 And it's good to exercise discipline with anything.

01:08:49.360 Did you smoke while you were competing?

01:08:51.120 Was it part of your routine or not really?

01:08:53.160 It was not a regular thing, but it was an occasional thing.

01:08:55.680 Just like having a glass of wine was an occasional.

01:08:57.480 I don't have it every night.

01:08:58.500 Maybe on the weekend I'll have a glass of wine.

01:09:01.060 At what point did you start experiencing with steroids and additional drugs?

01:09:05.940 Before my first competition, because I knew the guys I was competing against were using steroids.

01:09:11.760 Everybody was.

01:09:12.160 So I'm like, this is part of the game, right?

01:09:17.220 And if you're going to compete without steroids, you're going to be at a great disadvantage.

01:09:20.980 Not impossible, maybe, if you're genetically much more gifted than the other guys.

01:09:25.040 Well, actually, my first competition wasn't with the Federation.

01:09:29.400 It was a local competition, Mr. Birmingham.

01:09:32.560 And I won that while I was natural.

01:09:34.260 And the guy that placed second and third, you know, I knew them.

01:09:38.040 So I knew they were using steroids.

01:09:39.820 And I was still able to beat them.

01:09:41.320 And I dieted for like a week.

01:09:43.980 Natural.

01:09:44.640 Yeah, natural.

01:09:45.920 But when I went to the Federation and I knew it was a different standard,

01:09:48.800 then I started about 12 weeks before the competition.

01:09:54.180 What did you start off?

01:09:54.900 What was the first experience?

01:09:56.000 It was so, so little to what people use now.

01:09:59.060 But still, it was dramatic because it was the first time I ever touched anything.

01:10:04.000 First thing I ever took was DynaBall.

01:10:05.980 Okay.

01:10:06.320 20 milligrams a day of DynaBall.

01:10:08.500 I took that for six weeks.

01:10:09.780 And then I switched over to one PrimaBall in shot a week.

01:10:12.880 And a little bit of Anabar, like 15 milligrams or something.

01:10:16.740 That's kind of like bikini girls use that now.

01:10:18.940 And Prima was like pre-competition stuff.

01:10:21.000 Prima was not to really get you to...

01:10:22.220 No, that was when I was, you know, I did a little bit to build up.

01:10:25.060 And then I came down with a diet.

01:10:26.960 Got it.

01:10:27.580 And I was in pretty good shape.

01:10:28.840 I died for like seven weeks or something.

01:10:30.900 When did you really...

01:10:32.120 Because even when you went against Lee Haney, when you get on stage and you look at you,

01:10:35.720 you look good.

01:10:36.580 Yeah.

01:10:36.860 You look like this guy can win.

01:10:38.700 But you took it to a whole different level.

01:10:42.620 So at what point did you kind of take your game up and experience with different things?

01:10:46.480 Well, the next level, I was just using steroids up to that point.

01:10:50.220 So the next level was growth hormone, which was very expensive and not that available.

01:10:56.460 But now I got second in the Mr. Olympia.

01:10:58.060 So now I got income and I got contacts.

01:11:00.180 And I decided, let's try a growth hormone.

01:11:04.360 I'm sure that my competitors are already using it or some of them.

01:11:08.520 So I started with that.

01:11:09.900 And that, like, enabled me to go to another level over the next few years.

01:11:14.860 What was the reaction you would get?

01:11:19.020 Was there different things?

01:11:19.920 When you took this, you felt like this.

01:11:21.280 You know, I had the whole thing with temper, acne, you know, was there anything you're like,

01:11:25.780 but when I use this, I got to be careful because my fuse gets shorter.

01:11:28.140 When I use this, I feel like I can take over the world.

01:11:30.000 When I use this...

01:11:30.580 I had that aggression, but most of the time it didn't spill out because I used most of it in the gym.

01:11:39.000 And I wasn't in a lot of situations where it could be triggered.

01:11:44.500 Like a lot of guys at the gym, they used to work security at the nightclubs and so on.

01:11:48.320 I did that very earlier on.

01:11:49.960 But when I started competing and then I got the gym, I didn't need to do that.

01:11:52.740 And I didn't want to do it anymore.

01:11:55.640 So I was not going...

01:11:56.900 You know, I was not going out to bars or nightclubs where somebody might piss you off or, you know.

01:12:01.820 So I kept myself kind of a bit isolated and I did feel aggression, but it was like a controlled aggression that I could use for the workouts.

01:12:11.580 As far as side effects, water retention, acne, some of my...

01:12:17.620 I did get blood checks and some of them were out of the normal range.

01:12:21.780 It was...

01:12:22.820 My doctor told me, you're not dying yet, but, you know, it's not a healthy thing to keep doing this.

01:12:28.140 You would tell you it's you're not dying.

01:12:29.260 Yeah, you're not dying.

01:12:29.900 You know, it's not perfect, but your body's under stress.

01:12:36.180 Well, this is your profession and you're earning good money.

01:12:38.320 So my advice to you is do this and get in and get out.

01:12:41.480 Don't do it for too long.

01:12:42.660 How long did you stay at the peak of experiencing with steroids?

01:12:46.480 Basically, my Mr. Olympia reign, which was six years.

01:12:50.340 I think my intake while I was an amateur, it was really kind of moderate.

01:12:54.220 But then I got second in the Mr. Olympia.

01:12:57.380 What if I can go another level?

01:13:00.560 You know, that's...

01:13:01.540 You know, now it's worth any potential risks, maybe.

01:13:04.860 What is the level of usage then versus today for somebody that's competing in this world?

01:13:10.140 Yeah, today is much more.

01:13:11.600 Is it twice as much?

01:13:12.820 50% more?

01:13:13.140 Two or three times as much.

01:13:14.240 Two or three times more.

01:13:14.880 Two or three times as much, yeah.

01:13:15.980 So if you're competing in today's times with what's accessible today, would you have been the same size?

01:13:21.140 Or is there a limit to your size?

01:13:22.480 Or would you have to be even bigger than that?

01:13:23.640 Well, I think, you know, there's a point where it's beneficial up to a, you know, bell curve.

01:13:31.920 And then it's not.

01:13:33.620 And I think possibly one of the reasons where the guys are not getting into shape now or having trouble getting into shape is because they're using a lot of stuff.

01:13:43.720 And it's hard.

01:13:45.180 They don't show the details and the separation.

01:13:47.580 They have the volume.

01:13:49.080 But they don't have the details and the separation.

01:13:50.740 And I'm not sure exactly what that is because I'm not really au fait with everything that everyone's, like, using now.

01:13:57.680 I do help some people and I do train them.

01:14:00.340 And everyone that comes to train with me is surprised because they think, Doreen Yates, he's the guy, you know, the growth hormone guy, the steroid, the insulin, the guy is so fucking big.

01:14:11.300 He must have been using 10 times more than everybody else.

01:14:15.560 You know, we're all using pretty much the same thing.

01:14:17.840 The thing that was different was my approach and my training.

01:14:20.740 That's the difference.

01:14:21.720 Were you guys all talking about what you're using or no?

01:14:23.540 A little bit.

01:14:24.020 Yeah, a little bit.

01:14:24.680 Okay.

01:14:24.760 Everybody's pretty open about it.

01:14:25.980 Yeah.

01:14:26.160 I mean, most of the guys we're using, I use a growth hormone a day when we're competing.

01:14:29.700 We're all, like, talking.

01:14:30.820 You know, that was pretty much an average, it seemed.

01:14:33.620 So, you know, pretty much new.

01:14:36.040 Now people use, people that don't even compete using a lot of steroids.

01:14:40.440 Well, back then it was mainly, mostly people that competed.

01:14:43.920 There'll be a few guys in the gym that take a little stuff because, you know, whatever, they wanted to look big.

01:14:47.920 But the majority of people were competing.

01:14:50.100 And a lot of people wanted to compete then.

01:14:52.360 Now you go to the gym and look how many people want to compete in the gym, there will be nobody or one guy maybe.

01:14:58.020 Then it's like all the guys in my gym, they all wanted to compete.

01:15:00.520 That was the thing.

01:15:01.060 Everyone wanted to do it.

01:15:01.860 It was, like, the peak of interest, which has now declined.

01:15:04.940 And would the 18-year-old today, Doreen Yates, have gone the same route with all these different options?

01:15:12.160 Wow.

01:15:12.900 Good question.

01:15:13.780 Probably, but could Doreen Yates be the shadow now, in this day and age, where the industry is, like, very much on social media?

01:15:26.360 Yeah.

01:15:26.520 So it would be hard because people use social media now to promote themselves, to promote their business, to make an income.

01:15:34.660 In fact, some of the biggest owners in the sport, they never compete.

01:15:37.900 They're just on social media and they get millions of followers.

01:15:41.740 And from that, they capitalize on that and they make an income.

01:15:44.180 And they think, fuck it, I don't even need to go through all that shit and compete.

01:15:47.080 I'm not, you know, I've got a business anyway.

01:15:50.120 In my day, you needed to compete.

01:15:52.180 And you needed to be successful on a high level in order to get yourself in a magazine, which gives you exposure, gives you publicity, and then you'll get income.

01:16:01.080 Was anybody even making money during your era?

01:16:03.140 I mean, I heard Sean Ray was good with money, right?

01:16:06.340 You're first place, so you're obviously making money because you're getting the sponsorships.

01:16:09.840 But even after second, third place, I mean, the money is like 50 grand, 40 grand, 20 grand.

01:16:15.640 How are people making money?

01:16:16.860 Do they all have full-time careers?

01:16:18.220 No, I think maybe top six or top ten in the Mr. Olympia can make an income solely from bodybuilding.

01:16:28.600 Because you haven't just got the prize money.

01:16:30.620 You've got sponsorship deals, which, if you're a top placer, would probably be more than your prize money on an annual basis.

01:16:39.660 And then you've got appearance fees, guest posing, seminars, etc.

01:16:44.860 So people are making excellent income from that.

01:16:46.840 So it's not just from the prize money, but still, compared to other sports, I mean, it's chump change, right?

01:16:53.280 Yeah, I think right now we were talking about it.

01:16:55.000 $400,000 right now, first place, is what they pay during your time.

01:16:58.140 But that's one guy.

01:16:58.760 That's one guy.

01:16:59.840 Yeah, and then it goes down.

01:17:01.260 It goes down rapidly.

01:17:02.200 Real quick.

01:17:03.100 Yeah, it goes down from a $400,000 to, I don't know what, I know during your time it was between $100,000 to $150,000 when you were winning.

01:17:10.640 So, you know, when you, you, you know how a woman can see another woman and they can say, oh, she got a nose job.

01:17:18.100 And we were like oblivious to it.

01:17:19.940 We're like, oh, okay.

01:17:20.800 I was like, oh, I don't know.

01:17:22.900 She's on Botox.

01:17:24.100 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:17:24.700 She got her, what do you call it, tummy tuck.

01:17:27.140 I have no idea, right?

01:17:28.940 Absolutely, yeah.

01:17:29.400 But you watch NBA players or you, I don't know if you watch NBA, you watch a certain sport.

01:17:35.360 Can you look and say that guy's on something?

01:17:37.860 When you see somebody, can you pretty much say somebody's on using something or not?

01:17:41.380 I can't say 100%.

01:17:42.740 Okay.

01:17:43.000 But I could have my suspicions, especially if they change quite quickly.

01:17:47.740 I've seen a lot of fighters that I'm like, all right, you know, you just put on like 10, 15 pounds of muscle in the last year.

01:17:54.500 That's no way you're doing that without using something.

01:17:57.420 There's money, there's money here, man.

01:17:58.900 People, you know, we're talking about high level sports, highly, highly driven people.

01:18:07.180 They're not going to miss anything that's going to help them, man.

01:18:10.100 So, if they can do it and they can get away with it, mostly they're doing it.

01:18:14.220 Mostly they're doing it.

01:18:14.920 Yeah.

01:18:15.340 What do you look for?

01:18:16.000 Do you look for jaw?

01:18:16.960 Do you look for vascularity?

01:18:18.580 Do you look for sudden size increase?

01:18:20.460 Yeah.

01:18:20.860 If somebody makes a big increase over a year, then that's a telltale sign.

01:18:25.240 Because some people can be muscular, naturally muscular, anyway.

01:18:31.100 Some people have done well in bodybuilding, being natural.

01:18:34.380 I mean, Ronnie Coleman, I believe, who was eight times Mr. Olympia after me,

01:18:38.740 I believe he got as high as a world championship,

01:18:43.680 maybe even competing in Mr. Olympia by being natural.

01:18:47.780 Wow.

01:18:48.460 Yeah.

01:18:49.040 I believe so.

01:18:50.020 If you look at his physique when he's in the Mr. Olympia in 1992,

01:18:55.160 when I won the first one,

01:18:57.240 compared to when he was winning, it's huge.

01:19:01.440 And I could believe that there's some people that are just very genetically gifted.

01:19:05.700 I want to say in 1992, he placed 13th or something like that.

01:19:09.260 Yeah, he was up there, man.

01:19:10.100 He was in the top 10.

01:19:10.380 Yeah, he was in the top 10.

01:19:12.660 He kind of, he had the skinny, big body.

01:19:14.700 It was different than Paul Delet's physique because, you know,

01:19:18.520 Paul Delet had a different kind of a body than he had.

01:19:20.400 Although I'm just comparing them both because they had a certain length to themselves.

01:19:26.620 But for you, when you think about bodybuilding,

01:19:29.180 who are your Mount Rushmore?

01:19:31.120 Who do you put up there as the greatest bodybuilders of all time?

01:19:33.960 Put yourself out there.

01:19:35.800 Who would you see are the top five in your eyes?

01:19:39.900 Sergio.

01:19:41.100 Olivia.

01:19:41.780 Yeah, Sergio, Olivia.

01:19:43.120 They're just people that stand out to be like,

01:19:45.340 wow, this is Mr. Olympia at the time.

01:19:47.860 I mean, it's like something from another planet at that time,

01:19:52.940 the late 60s, right?

01:19:54.480 Amazing.

01:19:55.120 Sergio, Olivia had the famous pose, you know, the whole.

01:19:58.200 Yeah, very few people can do that with their arms over head pose.

01:20:00.460 Make it look good.

01:20:01.380 Make it look good.

01:20:02.240 He could do that and you couldn't believe it.

01:20:05.260 Sergio, Olivia, Arnold, Lee Haney, Ronnie Coleman, and myself.

01:20:13.600 You know, he told me not to put myself in there.

01:20:15.440 Maybe your top five?

01:20:17.180 It's like Mr. Olympia should be a standout.

01:20:20.080 It's like not a little bit better than the other guys stand out.

01:20:24.200 And it should be a guy of some stature, I think.

01:20:27.660 A little guy, I find it hard to see a little guy as being Mr. Olympia.

01:20:31.820 You talk about that a lot.

01:20:32.740 Why is that?

01:20:33.380 When you say little guy, what is little guy to you?

01:20:35.980 You're talking like 5'8 and under.

01:20:38.460 Is that kind of to you, little guy?

01:20:39.660 Yeah, I mean, Mr. Olympia, you're talking about the best bodybuilder in the world.

01:20:45.040 And even if you showed to a member of the general public a small guy, they'd be like, really?

01:20:51.100 You know, I expect the guy to be like of impressive and huge stature.

01:20:55.500 So, those are the guys that stand out to me to be like, they were really head and shoulders above the competition at the time.

01:21:04.060 I don't say that I was head and shoulders above the competition, but, you know, six years in a row.

01:21:09.300 But my competition was very intense.

01:21:12.780 I mean, Arnold, he didn't really have, I think some Mr. Olympia is only Arnold.

01:21:17.240 And other Mr. Olympia is some, nobody that can come close to him.

01:21:21.620 Lee Haney as well won eight Mr. Olympias, but he didn't really have intense competition.

01:21:26.560 He knew if he came in pretty good shape, it was his.

01:21:29.680 It was, you know, it was head and shoulders above everybody.

01:21:33.020 And Ronnie was very hard to beat as well.

01:21:35.620 Jay Cutler did beat him in the end, but Ronnie was in a decline from injuries at that point.

01:21:42.040 What did you think about Serge Nubre's physique?

01:21:43.620 To me, he had, he was a...

01:21:44.600 Yeah, Serge Nubre looked like a panther or something.

01:21:47.140 I mean, real quality to his muscles.

01:21:49.520 Interesting physique.

01:21:50.680 Yeah, and interesting training.

01:21:53.020 He used to train for hours.

01:21:54.900 Nubre?

01:21:55.200 Literally for hours, yeah.

01:21:57.800 Was he a French?

01:21:58.520 Where was he from?

01:21:59.120 He's French, yeah.

01:21:59.800 French, from some French, Guadeloupe or some French Caribbean island.

01:22:05.280 Well, he was from France, yeah.

01:22:07.340 So he got his initial size, I guess, training heavy.

01:22:11.020 And then years later, he would just train for hours.

01:22:14.320 And that's maintaining his size and keeping him very, very lean.

01:22:17.800 I think it takes some kind of stimulant as well when he was training,

01:22:20.280 because he just had to train for hours and he'd just be always super lean.

01:22:23.080 I thought he had an, you know, I would put him more like a Frank Zane tap.

01:22:26.640 Yeah, very, very small waist, little joints.

01:22:29.120 Yes.

01:22:29.800 Maybe some similarity to Flex Wheeler in that regard.

01:22:33.360 Earlier days, maybe, when he was coming up.

01:22:35.380 But Sergio Olivares, I mean, Arthur Jones was the one that really bought genetics,

01:22:42.840 you know, as a factor.

01:22:44.540 It wasn't really talked about before.

01:22:45.940 Like, you know, buy Arnold's chest routine and get a chest like Arnold.

01:22:49.640 Like, no, you can't do that, man.

01:22:51.360 You know, Arnold is Arnold.

01:22:52.760 So, Arthur Jones pointed that out.

01:22:57.000 He's like, you know, your potential of a muscle to grow is limited by the length of the muscle

01:23:03.440 belly, because it can never be wider than it is long and it wouldn't function.

01:23:06.760 So, if you've got long muscle bellies, you have the potential to build more muscle mass.

01:23:10.640 And Sergio Olivares had uniformly long muscle bellies on, like, everywhere in his body.

01:23:16.840 He's probably the most genetically gifted bodybuilder ever.

01:23:20.400 What would you say he was the most genetically gifted bodybuilder?

01:23:24.380 I would think so, yeah.

01:23:25.980 Wow.

01:23:26.480 That's a pretty powerful thing to say right there.

01:23:27.960 Yeah.

01:23:28.840 I mean, Ronnie was very gifted, but I would say Sergio probably had the best genetics.

01:23:33.660 And look what the guy looked like in the late 60s with what they had available.

01:23:38.500 Let me ask you this.

01:23:39.660 Phil Heath speaks very highly of you.

01:23:41.400 And Phil Heath sees you as more also a scientist, because he's also a guy that went to school,

01:23:46.960 got his degree.

01:23:47.700 He got a degree in accounting and then decides to go into bodybuilding because he was a genetic

01:23:52.400 freak as well for what he was doing in basketball.

01:23:55.720 I'm just curious your opinion on this.

01:23:57.440 Last year, when he went against Rodin, and, you know, you look at the picture here when

01:24:05.920 the two went against each other.

01:24:07.180 There was a lot of controversy.

01:24:08.080 This is probably not the best picture, because abs, abs, maybe Phil is not fully flexing his

01:24:12.700 abs.

01:24:13.740 Were you at Mr. Olympia 2018?

01:24:15.660 I wasn't there, no.

01:24:16.560 Did you follow it at all, or not really?

01:24:18.820 I did follow it, and there was a lot of criticism against Phil Heath previous to this.

01:24:25.420 For the stomach.

01:24:26.160 About his stomach, his belly being protruding, being distended.

01:24:31.220 So, the judges were hearing this, and Arnold made a big issue as well at his contest about

01:24:38.020 why the guy's got big bellies now.

01:24:39.640 So, there was like a lash back almost against guys having distended bellies.

01:24:45.780 So, you can see on this picture that still Phil is having some trouble with his abdominal

01:24:52.000 area.

01:24:52.480 I think he had a hernia as well.

01:24:53.820 He did.

01:24:54.160 So, on this pose, I'd say he's losing on this pose, just because it is an abs and thigh

01:25:00.160 pose, and Sean's showing more separation.

01:25:03.340 Well, that's just one pose.

01:25:04.960 There's seven compulsory poses that are scored.

01:25:08.420 So, we'd have to look at all seven of them to...

01:25:10.580 Did you follow it at all, or not really, when it was taking place?

01:25:12.980 Not really, but I'm the opinion that Sean was kind of lucky, because maybe Phil was

01:25:20.720 not at his best, and also his being...

01:25:23.480 You know, they were really analyzing his abdominal area to see how it was.

01:25:28.700 But, you know, Phil is clearly a better bodybuilder.

01:25:34.080 He doesn't have weak points.

01:25:35.580 Sean has still...

01:25:36.700 His arms are quite weak.

01:25:37.780 His back is a bit weak.

01:25:39.340 Sometimes I wonder, you know, in boxing, you know, one of the reasons I'm not a boxing

01:25:42.500 fan.

01:25:43.000 I watch a good fight, just to watch a good fight, but it's not like what it used to be

01:25:47.040 when you used to...

01:25:48.100 It was different for me when I watch before than I do today.

01:25:51.060 But, you know, sometimes boxing, this whole political thing with boxing, the judges, oh,

01:25:55.220 I scored a scorecard this against Triple G versus Canelo, whatever, you know, all these...

01:26:00.220 I don't know...

01:26:00.520 But at least in boxing, you can knock the guy out.

01:26:02.160 You can knock the guy out.

01:26:02.920 You can knock him out.

01:26:03.220 You can knock him out.

01:26:03.820 There's no...

01:26:04.580 That's what I'm saying.

01:26:05.200 The benefit of that, right?

01:26:06.480 Like Ruiz knocked out the heavyweight, you know?

01:26:09.060 And it's no debate.

01:26:10.640 It's black and white.

01:26:11.140 Black and white, yeah.

01:26:12.420 So, you know, you look at this and you're seeing a guy like Phil who is maybe trying

01:26:16.820 to go get his eighth or ninth, right?

01:26:18.940 Yeah.

01:26:19.340 The gift, he's going after it and he's good for the brand.

01:26:21.980 Maybe he's not the most liked figure because he doesn't want to do what everybody tells

01:26:27.200 him to do and some of the guys don't like him.

01:26:28.960 How much is politics involved in Mr. Olympia?

01:26:33.260 Well, I don't think it's possible to fix the contest because you'd have to sit everyone

01:26:39.800 in a room and, you know, pre-plan it.

01:26:41.560 But people are influenced by what's going on and what's being said and so on.

01:26:49.160 So I'm sure on this contest, because there's so much backlash and criticism about Phil's

01:26:55.640 distended stomach over the past two years, I'm sure it was an issue that everybody was

01:26:59.440 looking at, right?

01:27:00.980 You know, so it came more into focus and maybe that's what let him down and maybe that's

01:27:08.860 why he lost the contest.

01:27:11.980 But again, I'd have to see all the poses to have a really strong opinion on that.

01:27:16.100 I'd really be curious about your thoughts on it because, you know, I ask around and a

01:27:21.740 lot of people say Phil should have won it, but they just kind of wanted to go up a different

01:27:24.700 direction to, you know, have some new space.

01:27:26.880 Maybe it was kind of sending a message that this, we don't want this thing anymore because

01:27:32.160 it looks bad.

01:27:33.180 I got it.

01:27:33.440 It could be, you know, a general feeling of that.

01:27:37.000 I don't think it's possible to fix the contest.

01:27:39.480 You know, if the contest was fixed, it would have come out by now.

01:27:43.000 Somebody would have said something, you know.

01:27:44.940 You think any other brand can compete with Mr. Olympia brand?

01:27:49.580 Very difficult.

01:27:50.520 I hear a rumor that there's another contest next year that somebody's putting on.

01:27:53.640 Yes.

01:27:54.180 I don't want to say too much, but...

01:27:55.640 What do you think about that?

01:27:57.300 We don't have to mention the name because we both know, but what do you think about that?

01:27:59.540 I think it's great, man.

01:28:00.540 I think it's great.

01:28:01.360 More competition is good in anything.

01:28:05.460 So, for instance, when Vince McMahon came along with the WBF or whatever it was, the Bodybuilding

01:28:14.980 Federation, and they offered all these contracts out to the guys and give some big contracts,

01:28:19.400 you know, $200,000, $250,000 a year to guys.

01:28:23.460 WIDA had to step up their game.

01:28:25.840 Up to that point, Joe WIDA was not really handing out big contracts, but now he's got

01:28:30.220 competition and they're handing out contracts.

01:28:32.600 So, WIDA then had to step up.

01:28:35.240 WIDA was a businessman.

01:28:36.080 If he could get you to do something for free, they'd get you to do it for free.

01:28:39.560 And that's what used to happen in the magazines.

01:28:41.500 All those guys didn't get paid back in the day.

01:28:43.340 They'd get maybe some ad space where they could sell their booklets or something like

01:28:49.020 that, and then you can make money.

01:28:50.240 So, that's what Joe used to give them.

01:28:51.640 Nothing, right?

01:28:52.140 That's the form of payment from Joe.

01:28:53.560 Yeah, nothing, man.

01:28:54.800 As little as possible, right?

01:28:55.880 He's a businessman.

01:28:57.120 So, I don't blame him for that.

01:28:59.040 You really think somebody can compete with the brand?

01:29:01.220 With Mr. Olympia?

01:29:02.200 Mr. Olympia.

01:29:03.440 I don't think they would want to.

01:29:05.060 I think they'd want to work in conjunction.

01:29:06.980 I don't think they can compete against it.

01:29:08.540 Like an Arnold Classic and a...

01:29:09.800 But if somebody came along and started their own federation and put up huge money, yeah,

01:29:16.240 they could.

01:29:17.120 Why would somebody put up huge money unless they're going to get a return?

01:29:22.040 The question is, you know, the challenge has always been, are people going to pay to watch

01:29:26.060 it?

01:29:26.420 You know, are they going to show it on national television?

01:29:28.740 And is big studios going to be okay with knowing that everybody's on G8 steroids?

01:29:33.480 Is this a family tie?

01:29:34.460 You know, that's always been a bit of the controversy.

01:29:36.180 I don't think bodybuilding is like...

01:29:38.800 I never...

01:29:39.820 I was realistic.

01:29:40.580 I never thought bodybuilding is going to be mainstream, like football or baseball or soccer

01:29:44.860 or something like that.

01:29:45.700 It's too specialized.

01:29:46.460 And again, we've got the, you know, you've got the controversy about the drugs and that

01:29:51.740 that bodybuilding is the only sport that is involved with that.

01:29:55.080 A lot of sports, you know, in cycling.

01:29:58.940 Of course.

01:29:59.640 Many, many sports.

01:30:00.840 But everybody...

01:30:01.320 Bodybuilding is obvious, right?

01:30:02.660 Because you look so different.

01:30:04.640 And, you know, got this guy, huge muscles with veins everywhere.

01:30:08.300 I mean, it looks extraordinary to the average person.

01:30:13.140 So, immediately they think, oh, that's drugs.

01:30:16.980 Where you see a guy riding up mountains for hours, you don't think that because they look

01:30:21.400 like a regular guy.

01:30:22.760 Skinny.

01:30:23.340 Yeah.

01:30:24.020 Arms strong.

01:30:24.840 Yeah.

01:30:25.020 While everybody else is doing the whole PED.

01:30:26.740 Yeah.

01:30:27.100 And he's one of many and he's competing in that marketplace.

01:30:30.520 Who are you close to?

01:30:32.240 Any Mr. Olympia guys you got really close to where you have a friendship with?

01:30:34.980 I'm friends, probably best friend I got are the guys that I used to compete against.

01:30:40.180 He came towards the end as Chris Cormier.

01:30:44.200 He come to England to...

01:30:46.700 I put a kind of a challenge out to him because Chris is just like the biggest party guy and

01:30:51.540 you don't mind me saying that.

01:30:53.800 He's the biggest party guy in bodybuilding.

01:30:56.000 Everyone knows that, right?

01:30:57.520 So, Chris is partying, his multiple girlfriends, all this chaos going on.

01:31:02.280 And still, he's doing very well.

01:31:04.920 So, I said, hey man, you should come over to England and train with me because you need

01:31:08.880 to be like a boxer, like Tyson going to the Catskills or something.

01:31:11.880 Just put yourself in isolation.

01:31:14.140 Away from all this nonsense, man.

01:31:15.760 I mean, it's always there if you want it, right?

01:31:17.360 It's always a party or a girl or whatever.

01:31:19.080 It's always there, man.

01:31:19.980 But switch it off.

01:31:21.760 Put yourself into this 100%.

01:31:23.140 Come to England.

01:31:24.200 I'll train you.

01:31:25.380 Get in your apartment by the gym.

01:31:27.560 And you could win Mr. Olympia.

01:31:29.280 He didn't listen to me for about five or six years.

01:31:31.320 Then he came out and they had some injuries.

01:31:33.840 And I'm like, Chris, it's not happening now, man.

01:31:36.460 It's too late.

01:31:37.220 Yeah, it's too late.

01:31:38.200 I read somewhere 16 years ago, the guy was incline pressing six plates.

01:31:43.660 Yeah, he was strong as a ball, man.

01:31:44.900 Some ridiculous amount of weight as he was pushing.

01:31:47.660 He came to train with me.

01:31:48.620 You can still see on YouTube.

01:31:51.680 He came to train legs with me and he lost his lunch outside the gym.

01:31:56.200 But you have a reputation for that.

01:31:57.920 I mean, you got a reputation for doing that.

01:32:00.060 Yeah, because I push people to where they haven't been before.

01:32:03.220 And he said himself, it's like, I've been in this game for so long.

01:32:06.700 I've trained with all the top people, top trainers.

01:32:09.280 He said, I didn't know shit.

01:32:10.480 Did you spend a lot of time with Mike and Ray Mentzer or no?

01:32:14.320 Not a lot of time.

01:32:15.260 I mean, Mike was one of my heroes when I started.

01:32:20.060 Physique, I liked his physique.

01:32:21.360 It was like powerful, strong, rugged.

01:32:23.260 But it was more about the intellect and the questioning mind, which I had.

01:32:31.220 And the training methods, the training systems, which basically came from Arthur Jones.

01:32:35.300 And he just tweaked it a little bit.

01:32:37.080 And I took that and tweaked it a little bit.

01:32:39.220 And someone introduced me to Mike when I went out to Venice.

01:32:43.180 And we were going to do a clothing brand together.

01:32:45.160 So, you know, we're getting close.

01:32:46.740 But Mike and Ray were like, they had an interesting relationship.

01:32:50.760 They were always fighting.

01:32:53.580 So the whole clothing plan we had and everything fell apart because those guys were always clashing

01:32:59.220 and falling out with each other and so on.

01:33:01.200 So the whole clothing thing didn't work out.

01:33:05.060 And Mike was most of the time very rational and stable.

01:33:10.240 But sometimes he wasn't.

01:33:13.060 He had problems with alcohol and amphetamines and stuff like that.

01:33:16.660 So I think he'd be back and forth with that.

01:33:19.100 So that's why we, you know, trained with him a few times and kind of I backed off after a bit

01:33:26.240 when I saw that situation.

01:33:27.620 Yeah.

01:33:28.020 I think he died in 01 and then his brother died like a couple weeks later.

01:33:31.220 Some random story like that.

01:33:32.540 I don't...

01:33:32.960 Mike passed away and Ray was shortly afterwards.

01:33:36.580 So I don't know how that happened.

01:33:39.460 Yeah.

01:33:39.640 I think Ray was not super healthy anyway.

01:33:43.740 Ray was not healthy?

01:33:44.400 No, he already had a heart attack, a mild heart attack and he had some kidney problems.

01:33:48.840 I think he was on medication for that.

01:33:50.360 So I don't know what happened.

01:33:51.740 Maybe he lost his brother and he decided he didn't want to live and I really don't know.

01:33:56.600 The guy you fired, you couldn't live without.

01:33:58.540 Pretty interesting when you think about that.

01:34:00.020 Let me ask you, you know how you're coming up and a lot of times, I think it's 1957 when

01:34:07.660 they banned marijuana.

01:34:08.600 I think that's the year when marijuana...

01:34:10.380 Back in the 30s.

01:34:11.240 Is it 30s?

01:34:11.900 The 30s is the guy who, yeah, he was worried about linking it to Caucasians, you know, being

01:34:18.940 with African Americans.

01:34:20.020 It's just propaganda.

01:34:21.040 Yeah, propaganda.

01:34:21.460 Most of it was sponsored by alcohol companies and then you got the paper companies that didn't

01:34:26.920 want hemp to be used.

01:34:28.940 They want to, you know, use the trees and...

01:34:31.100 And you know, cigarettes comes afterwards.

01:34:32.160 There's a lot of forces, right?

01:34:33.080 There's a lot of forces that were working against it.

01:34:35.940 But, you know, today, fast forward till today, only one person's ever been documented to

01:34:40.860 die for marijuana, right?

01:34:42.340 I mean, it's...

01:34:42.780 I don't know.

01:34:42.940 I don't know.

01:34:43.440 I don't think there's one person.

01:34:44.480 60 days ago, they said one person.

01:34:46.500 Yeah.

01:34:46.640 I had these guys that were debating.

01:34:47.960 The only reason I know this is because these guys were debating.

01:34:50.080 There was one person that apparently...

01:34:51.920 I know vaping right now is five, but I think marijuana is one person in all these years that's

01:34:55.860 been documented.

01:34:56.820 And it's five million for alcohol.

01:34:58.660 It's a very big number for alcohol, right?

01:35:00.280 But go to steroids.

01:35:01.880 You know, you go to steroids and you think about the names.

01:35:04.240 These are just names I remember.

01:35:05.960 You got...

01:35:06.360 Yep.

01:35:06.840 Is it Muncer?

01:35:08.200 Andres Muncer.

01:35:09.120 Muncer.

01:35:09.480 Muhammad Banaziza.

01:35:10.820 Sonny Schmidt.

01:35:11.820 Matarazzo.

01:35:12.600 Kovacs.

01:35:13.340 Piana.

01:35:14.000 Yep.

01:35:14.600 El Sombati.

01:35:15.640 You know, you got some of the names you're looking at.

01:35:18.400 From you knowing what you know, how much of it is linked to the actual usage of the drugs

01:35:23.140 and how much of it is maybe they did things on the side that also caused that?

01:35:27.600 Well, here's the thing, once you, you know, because doctors used to say, first of all,

01:35:35.220 steroids are very dangerous.

01:35:36.700 And secondly, they don't do anything for your athletic performance.

01:35:41.400 So, well, you're lying about the one thing because we know, athletes know it's going to

01:35:47.280 increase in performance.

01:35:48.300 Absolutely.

01:35:48.960 So, you're probably lying about the other thing as well.

01:35:51.380 Well, so I think it's a matter of quantity and duration and individual genetics.

01:36:01.080 Like, some people can smoke cigarettes until they're 80, 90 years old and they're fine.

01:36:05.280 Somebody else smokes cigarettes and have a heart attack in their 40s.

01:36:07.820 So, individuals and also, once you, you kind of lose your inhibition about taking chemicals

01:36:19.420 and drugs because there's a steroid and then there's the anti-estrogen and then there's

01:36:22.860 something else and then guys take, you know, maybe a painkiller and anti-inflammatory.

01:36:29.400 You just lose that fear.

01:36:31.600 And then I think some of the people that have had fatalities in bodybuilding, steroids may

01:36:37.420 have been a factor, but I think there was other things involved as well.

01:36:40.880 Mohamed Benaziza died from diuretic use.

01:36:45.340 Diuretics are very dangerous.

01:36:46.560 People use them to lose water to get, you know, try and get in shape better.

01:36:50.140 But you lose electrolytes as well.

01:36:52.340 You lose sodium, potassium.

01:36:54.140 You can, you know, you can stop your heart if your sodium, potassium is too imbalanced.

01:37:00.660 And that's what happened with Benaziza.

01:37:02.060 Literally, the whole body was cramping and the heart, the muscle and his, his heart cramped.

01:37:08.020 Mike Maserato, obviously, using steroids.

01:37:12.620 But Mike used to eat five pounds of beef a day as well.

01:37:16.240 So, that was probably more a factor than the steroids or the combine of the two.

01:37:20.520 Five pounds of beef a day.

01:37:21.520 Yeah.

01:37:22.760 You didn't need that kind of meat.

01:37:24.120 No, mainly chicken and egg whites, a little bit of beef now and then.

01:37:28.060 But now, you know, we're starting to learn now that red meat and, you know, even super high protein all the time is probably not that healthy for you.

01:37:37.240 So, you've got a combination of factors here all going on.

01:37:41.520 And then some people using recreational drugs as well on top of all this is like, you know, it's abuse.

01:37:49.960 You could say anything outside of medical use could be abuse.

01:37:54.400 Well, maybe we're all abusing them.

01:37:55.960 But my approach was to use what I needed to use to get the benefit from it.

01:38:03.240 And where is that?

01:38:04.900 Where is enough and where is too much?

01:38:07.560 So, I pretty much figured that out.

01:38:10.380 So, there was some stress on my body.

01:38:12.340 But it's like, the way I look at it is like, okay, so maybe it's like smoking.

01:38:17.000 So, I smoked for 10 years and then I stopped.

01:38:19.000 Did you?

01:38:20.060 No.

01:38:20.400 You were saying if.

01:38:20.900 I'm making the comparison between taking steroids and smoking.

01:38:24.740 I got it, yeah.

01:38:25.280 So, 10 years of steroid use and then stopping and then following a different lifestyle.

01:38:28.640 That's what I'm doing now.

01:38:31.240 So, I'm probably kind of maybe repairing some of the damage.

01:38:36.200 Your body's got a very good ability to repair itself if you're giving it the right environment

01:38:40.100 and the right things, the right factors.

01:38:43.020 At one point when I'm in the army, I wish I had the picture to show it to you.

01:38:46.360 My barracks, the entire wall was pictures of all of you.

01:38:50.460 Every one of you during that time.

01:38:52.860 Yourself, Cormier, you know, even Aaron Baker.

01:38:56.120 I don't know if you remember.

01:38:56.660 Yeah, I remember Aaron.

01:38:57.360 Yeah, it was great.

01:38:57.940 Aaron Bati, all these guys on my wall.

01:39:00.300 I'm talking, I didn't use a single inch.

01:39:02.360 Some of it was women.

01:39:03.460 I had to have a woman as well because the sergeants were coming.

01:39:05.620 I hope so.

01:39:05.940 A lot of it was women.

01:39:07.440 I hope so.

01:39:07.460 I hope so.

01:39:07.740 I was like, boy.

01:39:09.840 Angel Tevis was one.

01:39:11.280 There was another, I think Monica Bryant.

01:39:13.040 Monica Bryant, yeah.

01:39:14.200 Had all these pictures on the wall, right?

01:39:16.700 And for me, I'm going to be Mr. Olympia.

01:39:19.200 I made that decision at 16 years old.

01:39:21.580 I think I'm going to make a run at this, right?

01:39:23.960 And then I got out and I started spending time with these guys.

01:39:26.820 And I actually went and looked at analytics at 18 years old, 19 years old.

01:39:29.760 I started looking.

01:39:30.340 I'm like, you know what?

01:39:31.660 You're 6'4", okay?

01:39:33.080 Your calves are skinnier than your forearms are, okay?

01:39:40.080 Your legs have any...

01:39:41.920 That would be okay these days.

01:39:42.540 Guys don't seem to have any calves.

01:39:43.600 I agree with that.

01:39:44.980 Maybe it works today, but you were pretty stacked when it came down to that.

01:39:48.580 So I looked at the whole thing and logically I just said, you know, I don't know if I have

01:39:52.100 the right height to win today because you saw Kovacs, 400 pounds, Jean-Pierre Fuchs.

01:39:56.820 Yeah.

01:39:57.200 You know, he had this physique and there were some of these guys in that community, the

01:40:00.780 taller guys, right?

01:40:02.120 Yeah.

01:40:02.280 You didn't see any guys at that time winning.

01:40:03.940 I don't know for a taller guy to have very balanced proportions.

01:40:07.400 Normally a taller guy's got his legs are too long or something.

01:40:10.720 The proportions are a bit off and it doesn't look as impressive.

01:40:14.020 But post-Arnold, who's one that's six, you know, that's got a height like that?

01:40:17.660 Nobody.

01:40:18.280 So you're 5'11", I believe.

01:40:19.860 5'11 and a half.

01:40:20.460 I think myself, Lee Haney and Ronnie Coleman are all about the same height.

01:40:25.500 So you think the prime height is 5'10", 5'11", maybe shy of six?

01:40:30.680 It looks like that, yeah.

01:40:31.760 It looks like that.

01:40:33.220 You've got the stature.

01:40:34.980 You know, you're not very small.

01:40:36.460 You've got the stature.

01:40:38.060 You're able to carry a lot of size and fill out that frame and look very impressive.

01:40:42.740 The taller guys, somehow they lack something.

01:40:46.700 Lou Ferrigno came back in 92 and competed, I think he's 6'6", or something like that.

01:40:53.040 He looked very good.

01:40:53.760 He looked better than he did back in the 70s, but he couldn't get in the top 10.

01:40:59.560 I think it was like 13th or something.

01:41:01.160 Yeah, it's a game for 5'11".

01:41:03.100 Based on what data tells me, it's this.

01:41:05.880 Are you a big math guy?

01:41:07.180 Are you a big data guy?

01:41:08.260 Are you a big numbers guy?

01:41:09.540 I'm pretty good with numbers because I spent many years throwing numbers around in my head.

01:41:15.460 So I would sit down, and if there was food in front of me, it was just a habit.

01:41:21.300 I would analyze how much calories I think are there, how much carbs, how much protein.

01:41:24.860 It's just like a process going on.

01:41:26.620 And I did it for years after I stopped competing.

01:41:28.920 I didn't want to do it.

01:41:30.260 It was annoying me that I would do that.

01:41:32.400 I would just shut up, man.

01:41:33.380 Just eat your dinner.

01:41:34.560 You don't need to know that anymore.

01:41:35.720 But it's still clicking away, you know, it was a habit.

01:41:38.700 So I'm always playing around with numbers.

01:41:40.800 So I'm pretty good at working out percentages and numbers and stuff.

01:41:44.200 Did you ever say, like, I think I can go be a hedge fund manager or go be a stock?

01:41:48.080 Never like that.

01:41:48.880 I'd never pulled you into going to...

01:41:50.540 Because it's not interesting for me.

01:41:51.880 There's no passion there.

01:41:52.780 So it had to interest you.

01:41:53.920 It had to interest me, yeah.

01:41:55.280 Yeah, even money, it doesn't really interest me that much.

01:42:00.300 As long as I've got enough to do what I need to do, it's not a really huge driving factor

01:42:04.360 for me.

01:42:05.480 Would you consider yourself a masochist?

01:42:08.000 I know this is a strange question.

01:42:09.560 Let me simplify it maybe.

01:42:11.060 Somebody that enjoys pain.

01:42:13.000 Like, you know, the way you explain pain and suffering is like, you know, maybe this

01:42:18.180 guy, like you would say, I used to sit there, I was uncomfortable, and I would sit down.

01:42:22.000 But I'm like, man, I'm so glad I am, because that just means I gave everything.

01:42:25.840 Did you enjoy pain?

01:42:27.280 Like, was it something you enjoyed?

01:42:28.720 Well, I'm not the guy that wants to be tied to a wall and whipped in a dungeon or something

01:42:33.000 like that.

01:42:33.800 And that pain in itself, I don't enjoy.

01:42:38.660 I enjoy the ability to master the pain and to be above it and to be able to go through

01:42:43.860 it with my determination, because your impulses are telling you to stop.

01:42:49.920 It's hurting.

01:42:50.540 Why would you carry on?

01:42:52.080 Just stop, man.

01:42:52.800 But no, there's a goal at the end that I want to get to.

01:42:56.000 So in order to achieve that goal, I'm willing to go through the pain, and I will go through

01:42:59.560 the pain, and I will take pride in the fact that I was able to do that.

01:43:05.080 It's like mastery over oneself, you know, mastery over your instincts that wants to be comfortable

01:43:12.720 all the time and doesn't want to go through that.

01:43:14.620 But nothing that's really of value comes without some kind of pain or some sacrifice, I don't

01:43:22.960 think.

01:43:23.960 Did you have a formula for handling pain?

01:43:26.600 I know you said some things right now.

01:43:27.960 There was pride behind it, but was there a formula for you?

01:43:29.840 Pride and focus on the goal.

01:43:31.940 Yeah, focus on the goal of the goal of that particular workout, of that exercise, which

01:43:37.640 is all a micro of the macro, which is at the end of the year, you're going to compete.

01:43:43.740 That's the ultimate goal for that year, but breaking that down.

01:43:46.580 And so I would have the goal in mind before I went to the gym.

01:43:50.620 So I would sit down, I would analyze last week's workout.

01:43:53.760 So maybe I am data analyzing in my primitive way.

01:43:56.860 I've got my book there, and I've written down last week's workout.

01:43:59.660 So I did eight reps last week with this weight.

01:44:03.600 I got to do nine this week.

01:44:04.980 I got to put five pounds on the bar, or, you know, I got this.

01:44:08.600 So I've got a definite goal when I go in the gym that I've got to do, and I've got to

01:44:13.480 push, and I've got to get through, I've got to get to that.

01:44:15.660 And if I've got to go through pain to get there, so be it.

01:44:20.540 I'll go through the pain.

01:44:22.080 Does that mindset bleed into every aspect of your life, or was it mainly one-dimensional?

01:44:28.660 Anything physical, I'll fall into that zone even now.

01:44:31.660 Track it.

01:44:32.500 If I do it, you know.

01:44:34.060 Got it.

01:44:34.580 I'm riding my bike in the mountains in Spain, but I still catch myself timing myself

01:44:39.220 and seeing if it was better than last week.

01:44:41.760 You're still like competitive side.

01:44:42.620 Yeah, I got two voices.

01:44:43.540 I got two voices, like, when it's getting really difficult now.

01:44:48.560 Before I just had one voice.

01:44:49.760 Now I got two.

01:44:50.500 I got the one, which I made a video one time, put on my Instagram of, like, coming up this

01:44:56.940 fucking mountain, and I just got off a plane, and I feel tired, and it's really tough.

01:45:00.760 And I got this one pussy here on my shoulder, and the pussy's telling me, listen, man, you

01:45:06.940 fucking did all this shit before.

01:45:08.840 You won six Mr. Olympus, and if you're tired, you don't need to go up that mountain today.

01:45:12.320 You can go, you can stop, man.

01:45:13.580 You can go back down.

01:45:14.900 And another one got a fucking lion here.

01:45:17.100 It's like, fuck that shit.

01:45:18.120 Don't listen to him.

01:45:19.120 You've got to do it, man.

01:45:20.100 You started.

01:45:20.740 Now you can't stop.

01:45:21.680 You've got to finish it.

01:45:22.380 You've got to do it.

01:45:22.900 So try to listen to the lion, like, 95% of the time.

01:45:28.020 If I'm doing something that requires that, like, if it's physical, I'll drop into that

01:45:32.040 mode.

01:45:32.400 But if it's, you know, something else, I'm being social or whatever, I can be very relaxed.

01:45:37.600 A couple thoughts here before we wrap up.

01:45:39.580 TRT, you know, you're hearing a lot of people right now.

01:45:41.940 I run a company, and I got a lot of friends.

01:45:44.220 We got all these agents nationwide.

01:45:46.100 Doctor recommended I should get on TRT.

01:45:48.140 I'm 45.

01:45:48.880 Doctor recommended I should consider doing some TRT.

01:45:50.860 I'm 50.

01:45:51.260 And they're combining it with some more, you know, some of the other, not necessarily

01:45:55.700 GH, but some peptides.

01:45:57.360 Hey, combine it with this.

01:45:59.520 What are your thoughts on that with TRT?

01:46:02.320 I think if you get a blood test and your free testosterone is below the normal range,

01:46:10.200 then getting TRT will be a super positive thing for you and for your health.

01:46:15.820 I spoke to some doctor in England who was quite enlightened.

01:46:22.600 And if anyone's interested, there's a book as well called The Ageless Man.

01:46:27.080 The Ageless Man, it used to be only in French, but now they've published it in English.

01:46:31.440 And it's a doctor over, you know, decades has been treating patients.

01:46:34.260 So basically, like, the age-related diseases that we get as we get older, depression, diabetes, arthritis,

01:46:45.260 increased body fat, losing muscle mass, all these things can be reversed by just simply putting

01:46:55.860 your testosterone back where in an optimal range, let's say.

01:47:00.140 So your health and your quality of life will be much better.

01:47:04.780 So I'm a big supporter of, yeah, if you don't need it, if your testosterone is normal, don't screw with it.

01:47:11.680 You don't need it, yeah?

01:47:12.700 But if you're below the normal range, you're going to be a healthier, happier person if you put it back in the normal range.

01:47:21.080 That's for sure.

01:47:22.020 Probably your wife is as well.

01:47:23.780 Absolutely.

01:47:24.440 There's a highlight.

01:47:25.400 The bedroom springs are going to break a little bit more than they usually will.

01:47:28.900 And my wife's younger than me, so, you know?

01:47:30.820 You have to keep going.

01:47:31.860 Yeah.

01:47:32.500 And she's a professional competitor herself.

01:47:34.100 She's an athlete, man.

01:47:34.840 She's an athlete, absolutely.

01:47:35.920 Yeah.

01:47:36.240 And she's from Brazil.

01:47:37.780 And she's from Brazil.

01:47:38.620 Boom.

01:47:39.220 Yeah.

01:47:39.620 Yeah.

01:47:39.820 I mean, you win in every aspect with that one.

01:47:41.560 You did good with that one.

01:47:43.080 Last thing here is some of the things you talk about, which is very interesting when you start dropping comments on 9-11 and what happened there and who did this and who did that.

01:47:53.600 You're from UK.

01:47:54.280 I know you're living in Spain right now.

01:47:55.360 What are your thoughts about Boris Johnson, Brexit?

01:47:57.720 How are you seeing that?

01:48:00.260 Well, the Brexit thing, I'm in favor of that.

01:48:07.180 Right?

01:48:07.600 Why?

01:48:07.860 Because I'm against globalization and the centralization of power.

01:48:12.980 And that's what they were trying to do, to make Europe into one super state like the United States.

01:48:17.700 But it's not.

01:48:18.540 Here you have a common language, a common culture.

01:48:21.900 In Europe, we have different languages, different cultures.

01:48:25.380 And also, UK is an island.

01:48:28.140 We're separated from the continent.

01:48:30.020 So, we feel like we're not really European.

01:48:33.300 We're British.

01:48:36.420 So, for those reasons, I was in favor of the Brexit when people voted to go out.

01:48:40.800 So, they fucking voted to go out.

01:48:44.540 Get it fixed, man.

01:48:46.560 But there's forces and people that don't want to do that.

01:48:49.340 And they're like, maybe we should have a second vote after we've caused you a lot of fear and inconvenience.

01:48:54.420 Maybe you want to reconsider your vote.

01:48:56.500 Like, almost it's like that.

01:48:57.700 So, it may cause me some inconvenience because I live in Spain.

01:49:03.700 It may not.

01:49:04.180 I'm not really sure.

01:49:05.060 I don't think so because I'm resident there anyway.

01:49:07.320 And there's an agreement between UK and Spain that Spanish people residing in the UK carry on and vice versa.

01:49:14.560 So, I don't think personally it would affect me.

01:49:16.720 But for the reason, I'm against globalization.

01:49:19.380 So, I'm for Brexit.

01:49:21.360 But what they're doing now, screwing around, I really don't know.

01:49:24.880 I'm not keeping track of it.

01:49:26.180 But people voted to get out.

01:49:28.560 So, let's get out.

01:49:29.660 You think Boris Johnson is the right guy to help make that happen?

01:49:32.900 I don't know, man.

01:49:33.600 I'm not a big fan of politicians.

01:49:35.020 I think they're all clowns and they're all puppets.

01:49:36.840 They're usually getting their strings pulled from somewhere else.

01:49:40.240 All around, not just UK.

01:49:41.520 All around, man.

01:49:42.100 Everywhere.

01:49:42.760 Everywhere, man.

01:49:44.340 And if they can't pull your strings, look what happened here in Dallas, man.

01:49:51.140 If you don't play the game, that's what can happen.

01:49:53.880 So, yeah, I'm not a big believer in, like, it's a game, man.

01:50:00.540 You're not happy with this guy?

01:50:03.480 You're not happy with the brown guy?

01:50:06.720 Wow, we've got a totally different guy now.

01:50:08.880 Yeah?

01:50:09.600 But what really changes?

01:50:11.100 There's some superficial things, but deep levels, I don't know if it's going to change that much.

01:50:15.620 Hopefully, it will.

01:50:16.760 Hopefully, it will.

01:50:17.940 When you say Dallas, you're talking about 1960.

01:50:20.380 Yeah.

01:50:20.740 Okay.

01:50:21.220 You're talking about John F. Kennedy, Dallas.

01:50:22.560 That's what you're talking about.

01:50:23.300 Okay.

01:50:24.080 So, I brought Jim Jenkins.

01:50:25.820 Jim Jenkins, I brought him as a guest.

01:50:28.080 And we launched the interview on the day of the anniversary of John F. Kennedy getting assassinated.

01:50:34.280 And Jim Jenkins was one of the four guys who was in the autopsy holding his brain after he got shot.

01:50:41.220 And he says, I looked at the brain.

01:50:42.840 Somebody worked on the brain before it came to us.

01:50:44.880 Somebody had done some work to it.

01:50:46.720 So...

01:50:47.040 How was it?

01:50:47.500 What kind of work?

01:50:48.640 Meaning somebody had done some incision.

01:50:51.020 Somebody had already done some...

01:50:51.800 I took some samples or something?

01:50:52.880 Yes.

01:50:53.260 Way before we looked at it.

01:50:55.060 And the brain was supposed to be...

01:50:57.620 The body was supposed to be in a complete different casket.

01:50:59.800 But they took it and they brought it earlier where Jackie's riding in the car thinking the body's in the back and it's not.

01:51:06.640 It was in a complete different car.

01:51:08.540 And his suspicion was...

01:51:10.920 Anyway, this is another conspiracy.

01:51:12.380 His suspicion was that, you know, maybe Lyndon B. Johnson was behind the whole thing because he wasn't too happy about the amount of attention John F. Kennedy was getting.

01:51:22.480 So we took him that day and he gave us a tour the whole spot.

01:51:26.180 Like he was explaining us when he hadn't been there since years ago.

01:51:29.820 For him, it was a difficult time to get there.

01:51:31.500 We took his wife there.

01:51:32.240 We have the whole video with it.

01:51:33.600 It's very interesting.

01:51:34.320 First week, the interview got, you know, nearly...

01:51:38.120 First three days.

01:51:39.320 The day came I got 600,000 views and then all of a sudden the video was taken down in a flat line.

01:51:44.100 Well, that's a sign right there.

01:51:46.160 Yeah, it was interesting.

01:51:47.100 If they shut you up, you're onto something.

01:51:48.540 I was very curious what happened with that interview, but it got some attention.

01:51:53.540 Last one here before we wrap up.

01:51:55.180 I'm going to do a speed round.

01:51:56.520 I'll give you a name.

01:51:57.520 You tell me what's the first thing that comes to your mind.

01:51:59.240 All right.

01:51:59.560 Very simple.

01:52:00.300 First one, Mike Mentzer.

01:52:01.480 Yeah, Mike was an independent thinker, a rebel, and a big inspiration for me.

01:52:09.780 Joe Weider.

01:52:10.540 Joe Weider is an out-and-out businessman, but he also had almost like a childlike love for bodybuilding.

01:52:19.540 Interesting.

01:52:20.020 Yeah.

01:52:20.580 Interesting.

01:52:21.340 Arnold.

01:52:22.000 Arnold, I don't know that well.

01:52:23.440 We did clash in the magazine where he criticized me and I responded to him.

01:52:28.860 And interestingly enough, after that, Arnold came to me at the Arnold, he had the big expo there.

01:52:35.200 So normally Arnold will go to the big sponsors, the sponsors of the show, and do a photo call at their booth.

01:52:42.500 So twice I was there with a little, I had a little booth, you know, promoting the nutrition and stuff.

01:52:47.420 And Arnold came over two times to say hello and shake hands and take pictures and everything.

01:52:52.580 So maybe there's some begrudging respect there that, because normally nobody stands up to Arnold.

01:52:59.660 But I just believe and treat everybody as equal.

01:53:05.880 So I don't care if you're president of the United States or you're the guy that cleans the toilets.

01:53:12.500 I treat everybody the same.

01:53:14.140 So I don't kiss anybody's ass or I don't look down on anybody.

01:53:16.640 I treat everybody the same.

01:53:17.580 So that's my policy.

01:53:20.220 So, yeah, Arnold is like, let's be straight.

01:53:24.360 Without Arnold, there probably wouldn't be the bodybuilding that there is now.

01:53:28.140 So some aspects of Arnold maybe I don't like, but that is a fact.

01:53:32.520 Arnold has promoted bodybuilding more than any other individual.

01:53:36.080 That's a big compliment.

01:53:37.120 That's a very big compliment.

01:53:37.780 Through pumping iron, through the movies and through his visibility and so on.

01:53:42.660 Interesting.

01:53:43.620 El Sombati, Nasser El Sombati, I'm curious.

01:53:45.740 Yeah, Nasser El Sombati, never really got on that well with him.

01:53:51.840 Really?

01:53:52.160 No, I never did.

01:53:53.280 I found him to be, what's the word in England?

01:53:59.100 We say two-faced.

01:54:01.380 Two-faced.

01:54:02.040 The kind of guy that would be smiling in your face and stab you in the back.

01:54:05.000 I'm sorry to talk bad about somebody that's passed on and is not here.

01:54:09.560 But that's just how I found the guy.

01:54:12.320 And probably the guy that came closest to beating me also.

01:54:17.140 In 1997, I was definitely not at my best.

01:54:20.040 I had the tricep injury going into that contest.

01:54:22.400 And Nasser was very good.

01:54:23.620 So it was a very close contest.

01:54:25.620 Some people think she should have won.

01:54:27.800 It didn't happen.

01:54:28.620 I won.

01:54:29.060 But it was definitely the closest one of all my competitions.

01:54:32.720 Was there anything that happened that caused you to think some way about him or no?

01:54:37.060 Observations.

01:54:37.720 Oh, purely observations, but nothing that happened.

01:54:40.000 No, I just observed people how they treat other people.

01:54:43.660 Fair enough.

01:54:44.080 Because if you have some status, everybody treats you nice.

01:54:48.200 You know?

01:54:48.640 Everyone treats me nice because I'm Dorian.

01:54:50.180 I'm Mr. Olympia.

01:54:50.860 But how do you treat the guy that's the waiter?

01:54:52.680 Or how do you treat this guy that you say is your friend?

01:54:54.860 And, you know, I kind of observe people.

01:54:57.360 Got it.

01:54:58.080 Kevin LeBron.

01:54:58.600 Kevin is one of my rivals from the 90s.

01:55:03.160 And one of the guys that I get on very well with.

01:55:08.740 Interesting guy.

01:55:10.680 Very talented.

01:55:12.960 Could have been better than he was because many years he took like six months off and played

01:55:17.780 in a rock band and didn't even lift the weight and lost like 40, 50 pounds.

01:55:21.720 Then he put it back all on again.

01:55:22.800 And so if he didn't do that, he potentially could have been better, but he chose to do

01:55:27.060 what he did.

01:55:28.460 Tom Platz.

01:55:29.840 Tom Platz was like, is an icon.

01:55:33.660 And I love Tom Platz for his passion.

01:55:37.660 His passion for the sport, his passion for training.

01:55:40.420 He's like, I would rather die than not give 100% in the gym.

01:55:45.100 I mean, he's even probably maybe more intense than I am.

01:55:49.580 And, you know, he was very popular in England.

01:55:52.900 He spent a lot of time in England coming over there and doing guest posing and seminars.

01:55:56.960 So he was a big inspiration and a big personality as well.

01:56:02.240 He'd never won a Mr. Olympia, but he made his mark by being himself and having this best

01:56:08.860 legs.

01:56:09.420 You know, I've never seen legs like that before or afterwards.

01:56:13.160 Lee Labrada.

01:56:13.940 Lee Labrada, not somebody that I really jive with.

01:56:20.480 You know, I don't know why.

01:56:21.380 I think he's a bit, I think Lee used to be an engineer or something.

01:56:25.200 I find him a little bit, a little bit cold and just no big deal.

01:56:30.540 Like no friction, nothing, but I just didn't really get on with him that much.

01:56:34.980 Winston Churchill.

01:56:36.360 Winston Churchill.

01:56:37.660 Well, yeah, I think if facts were known that he wouldn't be the,

01:56:42.940 the hero that is portrayed to be, you know, they say the winners write history.

01:56:49.020 And I think that's definitely the case there.

01:56:51.800 He was a badass murdering motherfucker, man.

01:56:53.680 That's what he was.

01:56:54.940 Is that good or bad?

01:56:56.280 I think it's pretty bad.

01:56:58.940 I'm, you know, I hate war.

01:57:01.360 I hate violence.

01:57:02.180 I hate oppression.

01:57:03.440 And Winston Churchill was involved in some bad shit.

01:57:08.340 So even though he was held up to be the hero of the British people, because he was a prime minister and he made these oppressive speeches and this bulldog spirit, never give up and everything like that.

01:57:16.700 So maybe being British, people expect me to put him on a pedestal.

01:57:22.440 But if you see what he was involved with and things around the world, then it's not a hero of mine.

01:57:28.780 How about Chamberlain?

01:57:29.620 I really don't know too much about him.

01:57:31.520 You got it.

01:57:32.180 I know he was a prime minister before the war and he went to speak with Adolf Hitler and so on.

01:57:37.860 And that's all I know.

01:57:39.820 I don't know too much about him.

01:57:41.960 Lou Ferrigno.

01:57:43.020 Lou Ferrigno.

01:57:44.020 This is somebody I got on quite well with.

01:57:45.780 I think also because he was married.

01:57:48.900 So, you know, me and my wife, we actually been to his house and he showed me his gym there that he used to train people in.

01:57:54.960 He told me the story about Michael Jackson.

01:57:57.240 He used to come there.

01:57:58.220 I don't know quite what Michael Jackson was doing in the weight training, but apparently he was at some point.

01:58:02.840 He used to come at 4 or 5 in the morning in his limo and train him in the gym there.

01:58:06.840 So I got on well with Lou Ferrigno.

01:58:09.520 As I say, he was a family man.

01:58:12.160 So we spent a bit of time together.

01:58:14.460 And of course, he transcended bodybuilding as well, going into, you know, doing the Hulk and Hollywood and so on.

01:58:20.980 So that, again, brings more visibility to the sport, I think.

01:58:24.900 So he did a good job there.

01:58:26.220 What was your experience with Mike Tyson?

01:58:28.120 Something happened with you and Mike Tyson, I believe.

01:58:30.580 I've met Mike a couple of times.

01:58:32.400 We've got a mutual friend, a guy from UK called Joe Egan.

01:58:38.600 And Joe is Irish.

01:58:40.740 And apparently he used to spar with Tyson and they became very good friends.

01:58:45.000 And Tyson could never put him on the floor.

01:58:46.740 He never went on the floor.

01:58:48.560 And Mike Tyson said, you're the toughest white guy in the world.

01:58:51.600 So I think Joe got a book out now, like the toughest white guy in the world.

01:58:56.740 So, you know, a mutual friend.

01:58:58.840 And then I met Tyson in Vegas.

01:59:01.200 And hello, Mike.

01:59:03.020 You know, I'm Dorian.

01:59:03.920 I know Joe and everything.

01:59:05.140 He's like, he looks at me like, Dorian?

01:59:07.520 Dorian who?

01:59:08.240 Dorian who?

01:59:09.440 I said, I'm Dorian Yates.

01:59:10.700 He's like, man, you're a badass nigger.

01:59:13.080 I was like, okay, whatever you say, Mike, whatever you say.

01:59:18.320 And actually I was, we were planning to do a podcast together last week in L.A.,

01:59:24.460 but we couldn't get the schedules too much.

01:59:26.320 That's right.

01:59:26.560 He's got a podcast as well.

01:59:27.380 Yeah, he's got a podcast called Hot Boxing where he basically chat and smoke weed,

01:59:31.080 which would be like lovely to do that with Mike Tyson.

01:59:33.580 So we're going to do that next time I'm in L.A.

01:59:37.040 And of course, Mike is now in the cannabis business.

01:59:41.320 So we have that in common as well.

01:59:44.180 I'd love to sit down and speak to him.

01:59:46.680 I think it would be fascinating.

01:59:47.620 I think it's going to be fascinating for the viewer, just as much as for you to watch

01:59:51.440 and see how that's going to take place with the two of you.

01:59:53.480 Dorian, final thoughts here.

01:59:55.080 I know you were talking about your nutrition company.

01:59:58.720 The website obviously will put all the information on the bottom there.

02:00:01.740 And I know it's not yet for U.S., but everywhere outside of U.S., people can order.

02:00:04.800 DYNutrition.com, and we do have the most of our requests, demand is coming from the U.S.

02:00:13.840 So we're doing very well in Europe and the Middle East, and now we're already putting plans

02:00:18.880 in place to manufacture in the U.S. and sell in the U.S.

02:00:21.860 So maybe more here again next year, I think.

02:00:26.460 Yeah, well, we'll put the link for anybody that wants to find out more about what you're

02:00:29.640 doing there.

02:00:30.280 And again, for me to go from us meeting 20 years ago to now sitting down having a conversation

02:00:36.200 together, it's really, really interesting to me.

02:00:39.220 But I appreciate you flying out and coming to pay a visit to us.

02:00:42.340 I really enjoyed it.

02:00:43.340 It's been great.

02:00:43.800 Thanks, brother.

02:00:44.160 Thank you.

02:00:44.420 Appreciate you.

02:00:44.860 Thanks, everybody, for listening.

02:00:46.740 And by the way, if you haven't already subscribed to Valuetainment on iTunes, please do so.

02:00:51.400 Give us a five-star.

02:00:52.760 Write a review if you haven't already.

02:00:54.400 And if you have any questions for me that you may have, you can always find me on Snapchat,

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02:01:07.100 With that being said, have a great day today.

02:01:08.900 Take care, everybody.

02:01:09.640 Bye-bye.

Valuetainment - November 20, 2019

Episode 397： Dorian Yates - The Genius Scientist of Bodybuilding

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