Valuetainment - Episode 441： Chad Nicholls Fires Back

00:00:00.000 30 seconds.

00:00:01.860 Did you ever think you would make it?

00:00:04.560 I feel I'm so close I could take sweet victory.

00:00:07.680 I know this life meant for me.

00:00:10.780 Yeah, why would you bet on Goliath when we got Bet David?

00:00:14.620 Valuetainment, giving, values contagious.

00:00:16.460 This world of entrepreneurs, we get no value to haters.

00:00:19.180 How they run, homie?

00:00:20.160 Look what I become.

00:00:21.440 I'm the one.

00:00:22.560 This is Patrick Bedevi, host of Value Tim,

00:00:24.040 and today I'm sitting down with probably one of the most

00:00:25.840 controversial figures in the bodybuilding world,

00:00:27.640 and that's Chad Nichols who is both loved by folks like

00:00:30.900 Flex Wheel and Ronnie Coleman,

00:00:32.320 and he's hated by many, especially Sean Ray.

00:00:35.520 So I gotta tell you, I remember when I interviewed

00:00:37.140 Sammy DeBull-Gravano, and when I interviewed Sammy,

00:00:40.080 Sammy called out Teddy Atlas.

00:00:41.880 A month later, Teddy Atlas sat right here and he said,

00:00:44.700 listen, I gotta respond to what Sammy said.

00:00:47.180 I remember when we had Dorian Yates here,

00:00:50.060 and he called out Brandon Curry.

00:00:51.800 A month later, Brandon Curry showed up and responded to Dorian.

00:00:55.380 However, Sean Ray calls out Chad Nichols.

00:00:59.800 Chad showed up in the front doorstep here within 24 hours.

00:01:02.900 So with that being said, Chad, thanks for coming out.

00:01:04.920 I appreciate you having me.

00:01:06.020 So I'm assuming that video with our buddy Sean

00:01:08.920 really fired you up a little bit.

00:01:09.980 It did a little bit.

00:01:10.700 It wasn't anything that I wasn't used to,

00:01:12.480 but it is, you know, when you wake up in the morning

00:01:15.160 and you have 25 DMs with a clip of Sean's at it again,

00:01:19.920 you get a little irritated.

00:01:21.520 Was it anything different than what he had said in the past before?

00:01:24.240 It really wasn't.

00:01:25.220 It was mostly the same stuff,

00:01:27.200 but there was a couple things within it

00:01:29.160 that was, like, just completely fabricated,

00:01:32.940 which was kind of shocking.

00:01:33.860 Like, I'm not even sure why he went down the road,

00:01:35.660 because it didn't pertain to, like, him bashing me.

00:01:38.860 Got it.

00:01:39.860 But, like, it was, again, completely fabricated.

00:01:42.580 So how about I play it?

00:01:43.440 I got a part of it.

00:01:44.360 I'm not going to play the whole thing,

00:01:45.300 because it'll be six minutes.

00:01:46.120 I got the 50-second part of it,

00:01:47.920 and then we can go from there.

00:01:49.920 And obviously, I got a lot of other topics

00:01:51.340 I want to go into with you,

00:01:52.260 but let's start off with our buddy here, John Ray.

00:01:54.580 Did you and Chad Nichols ever do anything together?

00:01:56.800 Absolutely not.

00:01:57.600 Okay.

00:01:58.000 He's Dr. Kevorkian to me, bro.

00:01:59.840 In 1996, I went to guest post for him,

00:02:02.360 took me to dinner,

00:02:03.540 and he asked me if I needed any help.

00:02:05.760 I just got second place to Dorian Yates.

00:02:07.680 No, I don't need your help.

00:02:08.540 I don't even know you.

00:02:09.240 And I think that's where we started to butt heads.

00:02:11.400 Ronnie Coleman, we'll defend him to the ninth degree,

00:02:13.300 but he was in that bathtub near death in 2001

00:02:16.240 at the direction of Chad Nichols,

00:02:18.340 who's not a doctor, by the way.

00:02:19.800 There's at least five deaths.

00:02:21.080 Don Youngblood, Nassar El-Sambati,

00:02:23.580 Dallas McCarver,

00:02:25.300 and a few other people

00:02:26.540 as a bodybuilding coach

00:02:28.140 that are dead and in the ground,

00:02:30.040 and he hadn't gone to one funeral.

00:02:31.800 So I have a reason to be pissed.

00:02:35.500 So that's a shorter, abbreviated version

00:02:38.020 of what he said.

00:02:40.040 Exactly.

00:02:40.400 What are your thoughts on what he said there?

00:02:41.800 So there's a couple things.

00:02:42.880 It depends where you want me to start.

00:02:44.220 We can start from the beginning.

00:02:45.420 The most, I don't know if I want to say funny

00:02:48.080 because I don't think any of it's funny,

00:02:49.760 but the most interesting part of it,

00:02:51.960 and it basically outlines basically

00:02:54.180 his direction of the whole thing,

00:02:56.320 is right from the get-go

00:02:58.200 because he says,

00:03:00.020 you ask him if we ever work together,

00:03:02.160 and his response was,

00:03:03.400 absolutely not,

00:03:04.380 but he went and guest posed for me in 96,

00:03:06.600 and I asked him if he wanted to work with me,

00:03:09.560 or basically that's what he had.

00:03:11.000 That's a complete lie.

00:03:12.980 Like, that's an absolute lie,

00:03:15.380 and when I explain it to you,

00:03:16.660 you'll understand.

00:03:17.800 He did absolutely guest pose for me that year.

00:03:21.220 He came, he guest posed,

00:03:23.620 we went out to eat,

00:03:25.060 that was literally the first time

00:03:27.000 that I'd probably talked to him.

00:03:28.240 I didn't even know if he was in town

00:03:29.340 until I got to the venue

00:03:30.720 and there was a Lamborghini

00:03:31.680 parked out in front of the venue

00:03:34.100 that some guy from Arkansas

00:03:35.640 had brought down for him

00:03:36.500 to drive around town all day.

00:03:37.760 He guest posed,

00:03:39.260 I didn't have any issues there,

00:03:40.340 we go out to eat,

00:03:41.620 and we literally talked about three things.

00:03:44.900 We talked about his,

00:03:46.500 like, which was weird

00:03:47.120 because I was actually under the impression

00:03:48.220 he was from a very wealthy family,

00:03:49.500 but he kind of portrayed the fact

00:03:52.360 that his brother was a drug addict

00:03:53.800 and his mother was in prison for drugs,

00:03:56.260 which me and my wife were kind of like,

00:03:58.000 wow, we thought he was from a very wealthy family,

00:04:00.640 so we were kind of shocked by that,

00:04:01.640 no big deal,

00:04:02.260 and then he kind of portrayed this image

00:04:04.340 of him really working out of the gutters

00:04:06.340 and becoming this thing,

00:04:08.180 which, again, we don't know him at all.

00:04:11.400 I don't know him at all.

00:04:12.060 At that time,

00:04:12.700 the bodybuilding world doesn't know him yet?

00:04:14.300 No, they know him,

00:04:15.260 but we don't.

00:04:15.620 You don't know him.

00:04:16.020 I don't know him from Adam.

00:04:17.260 When you say we,

00:04:17.940 it's you and Kim.

00:04:18.480 Yeah, me and Kim.

00:04:18.960 Okay.

00:04:19.560 We don't know anything about him.

00:04:20.820 We was just under the impression

00:04:22.640 that he was from a very wealthy family

00:04:24.940 just based off of

00:04:26.100 how he was maybe portrayed in the magazines,

00:04:28.820 which is really the only way we know him.

00:04:32.180 He talked a little bit about the cars,

00:04:34.280 how this guy would sell him the cars.

00:04:36.960 He would buy the car,

00:04:37.700 drive it for two months,

00:04:38.760 resell it,

00:04:39.460 which I thought was kind of a cool idea,

00:04:41.340 and then he basically talked about finances.

00:04:44.280 That was the only thing we talked about.

00:04:46.160 Now, here's the interesting thing.

00:04:47.540 We didn't talk about nutrition.

00:04:49.820 We didn't talk about athletes I was working with.

00:04:53.040 We didn't talk about anything about that.

00:04:56.700 The reason we didn't talk about that

00:04:58.460 is because I wasn't working with athletes yet.

00:05:02.060 I hadn't trained anyone.

00:05:03.820 The only person I had trained up until that point

00:05:06.140 is Kim from 92 to 96.

00:05:10.240 I don't first get involved in nutrition

00:05:13.020 until the 97 Olympia.

00:05:17.220 At no point would there ever be a conversation

00:05:20.740 of a kid.

00:05:22.800 I was 27 years old or whatever.

00:05:24.680 I don't know, 28, 9 years old.

00:05:25.920 I would never be even talking in that realm

00:05:29.000 because I wasn't there yet.

00:05:30.960 Nobody's talking about,

00:05:32.060 hey, Chad Nichols is working with athletes.

00:05:34.540 He's doing this.

00:05:36.040 He's doing that.

00:05:37.260 That part hasn't even started.

00:05:39.060 It's a year down the road.

00:05:40.700 So that is completely fabricated.

00:05:45.280 100% completely fabricated.

00:05:47.560 In no way, shape, or form did that ever happen.

00:05:50.380 Why would he say that?

00:05:51.000 Well, I'm going to tell you why he said that.

00:05:52.620 Because I never asked him.

00:05:55.560 But now we fast forward.

00:05:58.580 So in 97, I do start working with athletes.

00:06:02.580 And I trained Nasser Elson-Badi.

00:06:05.640 And I trained Paul Dillette.

00:06:07.300 Both of them go on.

00:06:08.160 Most people think that Nasser could have won

00:06:09.660 the Olympia that year.

00:06:10.460 Dorian ends up winning.

00:06:11.620 But no matter what, it was the best

00:06:12.960 that Nasser had ever looked that year.

00:06:15.580 98, we come to the Arnold Classic.

00:06:18.580 And Flex Wheeler wins.

00:06:20.480 Now, a lot of people will say that's his best ever.

00:06:23.100 I think his two best is his first one, 93,

00:06:26.100 which he was a little smaller,

00:06:27.100 but conditioning was phenomenal.

00:06:28.860 And 98, which he was bigger.

00:06:31.180 And again, conditioning phenomenal.

00:06:34.620 Directly after the 98, Arnold.

00:06:38.220 Now, this is where everybody's going to,

00:06:39.880 this is going to be interesting.

00:06:41.660 After the 98, Arnold,

00:06:42.960 I get a phone call from Boyer Co.

00:06:45.640 Now, if you're familiar with Boyer Co,

00:06:48.160 Sean Ray and Boyer Co,

00:06:49.460 they had a workout program

00:06:52.700 called Flex Workout together.

00:06:54.260 So they were friends.

00:06:55.260 He also dated a girl named Debbie Mugley,

00:06:58.140 who was a professional bodybuilder.

00:07:00.320 My wife and Debbie Mugley were friends.

00:07:03.200 So when we would go out to California,

00:07:04.760 we would go out to eat with Boyer and Debbie

00:07:06.500 and we became friends.

00:07:08.360 Boyer Co calls me and says,

00:07:09.920 listen, Chad,

00:07:10.980 would you be interested

00:07:12.800 in working with Sean Ray?

00:07:15.820 Because the Olympia is open this year.

00:07:18.220 And we believe that with your guidance,

00:07:20.480 he could win the Olympia.

00:07:22.740 And so at this point,

00:07:24.260 I'm kind of like,

00:07:25.980 okay,

00:07:26.400 because I'd already started hearing

00:07:27.680 like little tidbits of stuff

00:07:29.780 that was starting to come

00:07:31.340 like after the Flex Wheeler

00:07:33.080 win at the Arnold, right?

00:07:35.860 That was all kind of being directed at Sean,

00:07:37.960 but rumors, right?

00:07:39.060 Because at this point,

00:07:39.680 we have no social media.

00:07:41.020 Everything is just hearsay kind of stuff.

00:07:43.340 And again,

00:07:45.320 this can all be literally confirmed

00:07:47.120 through Boyer Co.

00:07:48.120 So Boyer calls me and asks me this

00:07:50.860 and I'm like,

00:07:51.340 listen, honestly,

00:07:52.540 there has to be three things

00:07:54.980 that has to factor in

00:07:56.360 for me to work with an athlete.

00:07:57.500 One,

00:07:57.720 I have to believe they're a hard worker.

00:07:59.340 Two,

00:07:59.720 I have to believe

00:08:00.220 that they'll pay attention

00:08:01.200 and do exactly what I say.

00:08:03.140 That I'm not wasting my time

00:08:04.660 with the athlete.

00:08:05.840 And three,

00:08:06.760 I have to believe

00:08:07.600 that we are going to click

00:08:08.840 and that the person is not a,

00:08:11.740 like that he's a decent human being.

00:08:14.080 Sean doesn't match

00:08:14.900 any of the three criteria.

00:08:16.620 I have zero interest

00:08:17.800 in working with him.

00:08:18.980 Zero.

00:08:19.560 You told this to Boyer Co.

00:08:21.120 Now,

00:08:21.360 prior to this,

00:08:22.520 how many interactions

00:08:23.460 have you had with Sean?

00:08:25.040 None.

00:08:25.600 Except for that dinner.

00:08:27.300 Yes.

00:08:27.880 No,

00:08:28.100 I take that back.

00:08:28.900 I take that back.

00:08:29.780 Actually,

00:08:30.880 so,

00:08:32.360 we're at the dinner.

00:08:33.380 So now at the dinner,

00:08:34.180 supposedly,

00:08:34.820 this is when I supposedly asked him,

00:08:36.600 right?

00:08:36.840 And he's like,

00:08:37.900 oh,

00:08:38.180 Chad's the devil,

00:08:39.480 right?

00:08:39.780 Like,

00:08:40.140 we don't want anything

00:08:40.800 to do with him.

00:08:41.760 But in 97,

00:08:43.680 when my wife wins the Olympia,

00:08:45.620 we are in California

00:08:47.140 for photo shoots

00:08:49.000 and we're doing photo shoots

00:08:50.860 and miraculously,

00:08:52.720 Sean shows up

00:08:53.620 at the photo shoot.

00:08:55.020 Like,

00:08:55.640 out of the blue

00:08:56.400 for no reason.

00:08:58.160 Shows up at the photo shoot

00:08:59.580 and there's literally,

00:09:01.420 like,

00:09:01.820 somehow he even gets

00:09:02.640 into the photo shoot.

00:09:03.640 So there's literally

00:09:04.320 a picture of him,

00:09:05.240 like,

00:09:05.540 encouraging Kim

00:09:06.660 to like,

00:09:07.280 you know,

00:09:07.480 like how they're doing photos

00:09:08.540 and they're like,

00:09:09.020 go for the weight

00:09:09.820 and like,

00:09:10.440 Kim's curling

00:09:10.980 and he's like,

00:09:11.720 motivating her stuff.

00:09:13.180 So,

00:09:14.160 he literally shows up there.

00:09:15.840 Now,

00:09:16.100 again,

00:09:16.440 I don't talk with him.

00:09:17.580 We don't talk about anything.

00:09:19.260 We're like,

00:09:19.880 at no point

00:09:20.520 are we talking about

00:09:21.480 working,

00:09:22.480 nothing.

00:09:23.100 Like,

00:09:23.400 literally.

00:09:23.780 He just shows up,

00:09:25.260 which I thought was weird.

00:09:26.220 Do you know the reason why?

00:09:27.280 I have no idea.

00:09:28.120 I have literally no idea

00:09:29.400 why he showed up.

00:09:30.460 But it would be,

00:09:31.040 it seems odd

00:09:31.720 that he would show up there

00:09:32.820 based off of the fact

00:09:34.020 that he just told you

00:09:34.780 in 96

00:09:35.320 that,

00:09:36.560 like,

00:09:37.460 I'm the devil

00:09:38.040 and he wouldn't have

00:09:38.920 anything to do with me

00:09:40.040 when in reality

00:09:41.000 I can tell you

00:09:41.640 that never happened.

00:09:42.620 The whole thing

00:09:43.140 was completely fabricated

00:09:44.380 by Sean.

00:09:44.940 Completely fabricated

00:09:45.940 by Sean.

00:09:46.860 And after that point,

00:09:49.160 if you realize

00:09:49.940 that was after

00:09:50.800 the 98 Arnold,

00:09:52.880 from that point

00:09:53.780 I became the devil

00:09:54.640 for sure.

00:09:55.100 So,

00:09:55.620 from that point

00:09:57.060 everything

00:09:57.720 literally escalated.

00:09:59.460 So,

00:09:59.780 once I had talked

00:10:00.820 to Boyer,

00:10:02.260 that seems to be

00:10:03.360 the point.

00:10:03.720 Because before that

00:10:04.400 there's no interaction.

00:10:05.860 There's no

00:10:06.420 Chad this,

00:10:07.080 Chad that,

00:10:07.580 blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:10:08.880 After that point,

00:10:10.340 that's when everything

00:10:11.320 escalated.

00:10:11.840 After you told Boyer,

00:10:13.440 no chance.

00:10:14.440 No chance.

00:10:15.060 No chance.

00:10:16.100 Absolutely.

00:10:16.800 And Boyer could confirm

00:10:17.680 this.

00:10:18.300 100%.

00:10:18.740 Now,

00:10:19.200 I've had people

00:10:20.520 talk to Boyer

00:10:21.360 and Boyer

00:10:21.860 will kind of beat

00:10:22.640 around the bush

00:10:23.220 a little bit about it.

00:10:24.140 He will confirm

00:10:24.760 that he made

00:10:25.420 the phone call.

00:10:26.540 He will confirm

00:10:27.280 and he will kind of

00:10:28.160 act like,

00:10:28.660 you know,

00:10:29.920 Sean didn't really

00:10:30.620 come out and say

00:10:31.540 like to do it

00:10:32.700 but I was just

00:10:33.440 reaching out

00:10:34.200 on his behalf.

00:10:35.180 I don't buy that

00:10:35.840 for a second.

00:10:36.520 They were buddies.

00:10:37.640 Like,

00:10:37.940 not for a second

00:10:38.740 do I buy that.

00:10:39.380 Because at this point

00:10:40.380 now we're already

00:10:41.320 like,

00:10:42.060 by the time this

00:10:42.760 is already being asked,

00:10:43.540 Sean's already

00:10:44.200 like bashing

00:10:44.920 the hell out of me.

00:10:45.900 So,

00:10:46.340 I think

00:10:47.100 he realizes

00:10:48.300 it's happening.

00:10:48.940 He can't go back

00:10:49.560 on that it happened

00:10:50.440 obviously.

00:10:51.480 But he has to

00:10:52.340 kind of save face

00:10:53.180 for Sean a little bit.

00:10:53.940 Now,

00:10:54.160 at this point

00:10:54.580 who's working with you?

00:10:55.520 Flex is working with you?

00:10:56.600 Who are the names

00:10:57.320 that are working?

00:10:57.700 Nasser is working

00:10:58.600 with you?

00:10:59.100 Yeah.

00:10:59.400 So,

00:10:59.860 this is 98.

00:11:00.940 So,

00:11:01.200 I have Nasser.

00:11:02.080 I have Flex.

00:11:03.540 I have Ronnie.

00:11:04.460 I have Paul DeLette.

00:11:05.880 Those are probably

00:11:06.460 the,

00:11:06.840 I mean,

00:11:07.140 those are the key.

00:11:07.760 And those are names

00:11:08.320 by the way.

00:11:08.700 Those are not like

00:11:09.240 you're working

00:11:09.760 with the main guys

00:11:10.480 pretty much at that time.

00:11:11.280 I mean,

00:11:11.720 the 98 Olympia,

00:11:13.820 yeah,

00:11:14.000 the 98 Olympia

00:11:15.120 that was the top three.

00:11:17.060 It was Ronnie Flex

00:11:18.200 and Nasser

00:11:18.660 and the 99 Olympia

00:11:20.100 it was Ronnie Flex

00:11:21.400 Cormier

00:11:21.760 and I had Cormier

00:11:22.360 in 99.

00:11:23.120 Cormier as well.

00:11:23.980 Yes.

00:11:24.240 Okay.

00:11:24.460 In 99.

00:11:25.020 It was the first year

00:11:25.800 in Cormier.

00:11:26.960 The other part

00:11:27.500 of what he says is

00:11:28.580 how it led to,

00:11:30.420 you know,

00:11:31.520 what happened

00:11:33.360 with Nasser,

00:11:34.200 how it led to

00:11:34.920 what happened

00:11:35.440 with the rest

00:11:36.420 of the names

00:11:36.720 that he talks about.

00:11:37.540 Okay.

00:11:37.980 What's your response

00:11:38.940 to what he says

00:11:39.420 about that?

00:11:39.780 So,

00:11:39.860 there's a bunch

00:11:40.640 of responses.

00:11:41.080 We can talk about it.

00:11:42.500 But I think

00:11:42.880 the biggest one

00:11:43.800 is Flex.

00:11:45.320 I think that

00:11:46.120 basically sets

00:11:47.780 the tone

00:11:48.740 for just how

00:11:50.500 big of a liar

00:11:51.220 Sean is.

00:11:52.100 Like,

00:11:52.420 he is a

00:11:53.440 pathological liar.

00:11:54.940 And anybody

00:11:55.700 that's listening

00:11:56.320 to this right now

00:11:57.220 can go to Google

00:11:58.000 and they can type

00:11:59.480 in what

00:12:00.800 disease was

00:12:02.880 Flex Wheeler

00:12:03.580 born with.

00:12:04.640 And it will pull up

00:12:05.880 FSGS,

00:12:07.120 which is focal

00:12:07.640 segmental,

00:12:08.740 whatever.

00:12:09.500 Okay.

00:12:10.340 It's a kidney disease

00:12:11.560 that he was born with.

00:12:13.180 Okay.

00:12:13.480 He didn't find out

00:12:14.380 about that

00:12:14.840 until 99.

00:12:15.880 Now,

00:12:16.260 Sean is 100%

00:12:17.660 aware of this.

00:12:18.720 He's 100%

00:12:19.940 aware of it.

00:12:20.780 I don't recall

00:12:21.780 ever

00:12:22.380 in my 20 years

00:12:24.500 that he's been

00:12:25.000 talking shit

00:12:25.720 about me

00:12:26.220 ever hearing

00:12:27.360 him mention it.

00:12:28.280 But he's 100%

00:12:29.660 aware of what

00:12:31.300 the disease is

00:12:32.300 that Flex has.

00:12:33.240 100%.

00:12:34.020 But he looked

00:12:35.160 at you

00:12:35.680 dead in the eye

00:12:36.580 and basically

00:12:37.880 blamed me

00:12:38.860 for a disease

00:12:40.160 that Flex has.

00:12:41.760 Now,

00:12:41.980 here's the bad

00:12:42.880 part of it.

00:12:43.660 Flex went

00:12:44.160 through a kidney

00:12:44.700 transplant.

00:12:45.980 He has this

00:12:46.800 disease.

00:12:47.240 But it's a disease

00:12:48.360 that he got

00:12:48.860 at birth.

00:12:50.280 He still has it.

00:12:51.580 So the kidney

00:12:53.160 transplant

00:12:53.740 didn't cure Flex.

00:12:55.200 This is something

00:12:56.040 that Flex

00:12:56.460 will have to

00:12:56.960 go through

00:12:57.460 forever.

00:12:58.980 So 15 years

00:13:00.780 from now,

00:13:01.960 granted,

00:13:02.940 Flex is aware

00:13:03.600 of it now.

00:13:04.020 So he is very

00:13:04.560 proactive.

00:13:05.660 He is watching

00:13:06.760 everything.

00:13:07.360 They monitor

00:13:07.980 everything.

00:13:08.860 But that's not

00:13:09.500 to say that

00:13:10.040 in 15 years

00:13:11.120 because the

00:13:11.760 disease is there

00:13:12.740 destroying the

00:13:13.620 kidney right now.

00:13:14.940 It's there.

00:13:16.140 It's destroying

00:13:16.860 the kidney.

00:13:17.820 And in 15 years,

00:13:18.900 Flex may end

00:13:19.920 up needing

00:13:20.580 another kidney.

00:13:22.420 That's possible

00:13:23.580 because of that.

00:13:25.160 Now,

00:13:25.840 could have

00:13:26.100 bodybuilding

00:13:26.960 escalated that?

00:13:28.700 100%.

00:13:29.220 There's no doubt.

00:13:30.280 So you're not

00:13:30.560 discounting it either.

00:13:31.260 Absolutely not.

00:13:32.520 Listen,

00:13:33.320 if he would have

00:13:34.060 chose to be a

00:13:34.920 golfer,

00:13:35.820 he probably would

00:13:36.840 have needed a

00:13:37.840 kidney transplant

00:13:38.600 10 years later.

00:13:40.000 But he didn't.

00:13:40.800 He didn't choose that.

00:13:41.680 He chose to be

00:13:42.260 a bodybuilder.

00:13:43.480 And it doesn't

00:13:44.320 matter what

00:13:45.160 I did,

00:13:46.880 what he did.

00:13:47.760 It doesn't matter

00:13:48.840 because based off

00:13:50.000 of the chosen

00:13:50.760 sport,

00:13:51.840 it was going to

00:13:52.520 escalate the

00:13:53.200 problem.

00:13:53.660 And I'm sure

00:13:54.220 that Flex is

00:13:54.900 100% aware of

00:13:56.040 that.

00:13:56.540 It isn't because

00:13:57.540 he did extreme

00:13:59.040 things.

00:13:59.540 It isn't because

00:14:00.220 he'd done more

00:14:01.120 than the other

00:14:01.760 person or less

00:14:02.680 than the other

00:14:03.160 person.

00:14:03.680 It's because of

00:14:04.520 the sport in

00:14:05.280 general.

00:14:06.180 But at the end

00:14:06.740 of the day,

00:14:07.620 the reason he

00:14:08.380 had a kidney

00:14:10.180 transplant is

00:14:10.920 because he was

00:14:11.780 born,

00:14:12.760 unfortunately,

00:14:14.200 with FSGS.

00:14:15.700 And like I

00:14:16.700 said,

00:14:17.040 I can promise

00:14:17.580 you,

00:14:17.760 you can Google

00:14:18.240 that.

00:14:19.300 And it will

00:14:20.600 literally be the

00:14:21.200 first thing that

00:14:21.640 pops up.

00:14:22.320 And again,

00:14:23.580 it's not like

00:14:24.440 Sean didn't know

00:14:25.060 that.

00:14:25.400 He's 100% aware

00:14:27.080 of it.

00:14:27.460 But if he says,

00:14:28.840 eh,

00:14:29.440 he was born with

00:14:30.340 a kidney transplant

00:14:31.200 and this and

00:14:32.340 that,

00:14:32.580 that doesn't

00:14:33.620 really create

00:14:34.220 drama.

00:14:34.720 But if he uses

00:14:35.340 my name and

00:14:36.720 slams me,

00:14:37.940 then people are

00:14:38.500 like, oh,

00:14:39.100 shit,

00:14:39.500 that's a whole

00:14:40.320 different story.

00:14:41.760 But if he's

00:14:42.220 been doing this

00:14:42.880 all year long,

00:14:43.860 there's got to

00:14:44.440 be a sincere

00:14:45.900 because he also

00:14:47.300 said,

00:14:47.640 we'll come back

00:14:48.200 to the names

00:14:48.600 here in a minute

00:14:49.080 and we'll go

00:14:49.500 through some

00:14:49.880 of the pictures

00:14:50.280 that we got

00:14:50.660 here.

00:14:51.500 But he also

00:14:51.880 mentioned Don

00:14:52.340 Long, too.

00:14:52.900 Yeah, he

00:14:53.100 mentioned Don

00:14:53.580 Long.

00:14:53.860 He mentioned

00:14:54.160 all these

00:14:54.480 names.

00:14:54.980 But the part

00:14:55.920 that I want

00:14:56.640 to go to

00:14:57.060 is,

00:14:57.720 before we

00:14:58.600 get into

00:14:58.900 that,

00:14:59.340 he also

00:14:59.880 said Kevin

00:15:01.200 LeBron was

00:15:02.580 heated and he

00:15:03.640 wanted to take

00:15:04.400 his shirt off

00:15:04.920 because he

00:15:05.300 was setting

00:15:05.740 he wanted to

00:15:06.380 tear you a

00:15:06.880 new one.

00:15:07.380 Right,

00:15:07.480 right,

00:15:07.580 right.

00:15:07.940 So,

00:15:08.480 because there's

00:15:10.980 we get into

00:15:11.360 this,

00:15:11.660 I want to

00:15:11.940 play something

00:15:12.440 on what

00:15:12.900 Ronnie said

00:15:13.520 about you

00:15:13.940 and what

00:15:14.220 Fleck said

00:15:14.600 about you

00:15:14.960 because,

00:15:15.640 in all fairness,

00:15:16.400 The LeBron story

00:15:16.700 at least has

00:15:18.000 got some

00:15:18.540 partial truth

00:15:19.280 to it.

00:15:19.600 So there is

00:15:20.040 some partial

00:15:20.340 truth to it.

00:15:20.360 There is a

00:15:20.720 partial truth

00:15:21.300 to that.

00:15:21.960 It just

00:15:22.440 didn't

00:15:22.680 unfortunately

00:15:23.140 play out

00:15:23.500 like he said.

00:15:23.900 Let me play

00:15:24.220 this.

00:15:24.540 Let's watch

00:15:25.140 what Ronnie

00:15:25.520 and Fleck

00:15:25.820 say about

00:15:26.220 you.

00:15:26.560 How big

00:15:26.900 of a role

00:15:27.180 does your

00:15:27.460 nutritionist

00:15:27.920 play in

00:15:28.340 winning?

00:15:29.160 Had I not

00:15:30.520 had it,

00:15:30.820 I wouldn't

00:15:31.080 have won.

00:15:32.360 That big

00:15:32.780 of a role?

00:15:33.360 That big

00:15:33.740 good role.

00:15:34.420 Was it

00:15:34.700 the same

00:15:35.080 one those

00:15:35.420 eight years

00:15:35.820 when you

00:15:36.060 went back

00:15:36.400 to back

00:15:36.620 to back

00:15:36.860 to back?

00:15:37.100 Same one.

00:15:38.080 How much

00:15:38.460 trust did

00:15:39.020 you have

00:15:39.240 in his

00:15:39.440 feedback?

00:15:40.260 One thousand

00:15:41.160 percent trust.

00:15:42.180 I did

00:15:42.560 every single

00:15:43.540 thing he told

00:15:44.040 me to do.

00:15:44.400 Got it.

00:15:45.180 Was he a

00:15:45.620 nutritionist

00:15:46.060 for multiple

00:15:46.440 people or

00:15:46.880 only you?

00:15:47.680 Multiple

00:15:48.060 people.

00:15:48.720 Me,

00:15:49.360 Fleck.

00:15:49.660 Fleck is

00:15:50.060 the one

00:15:50.340 that told

00:15:50.860 me to go

00:15:51.200 to him.

00:15:51.500 Is this

00:15:51.720 Chad you're

00:15:52.140 talking about?

00:15:52.680 Chad Nichols?

00:15:53.260 Okay.

00:15:53.900 Chad Nichols,

00:15:54.600 wow.

00:15:55.720 Not sure

00:15:56.200 where I'd be

00:15:56.940 without him.

00:15:58.100 Yeah.

00:15:58.780 Taught me

00:15:59.200 a lot

00:15:59.560 in the

00:16:01.460 age of

00:16:01.860 gurus.

00:16:04.280 He taught

00:16:05.000 me that

00:16:05.300 Fleck's

00:16:05.780 you know

00:16:06.680 more about

00:16:07.160 you than

00:16:07.480 me.

00:16:08.120 The only

00:16:08.360 reason I

00:16:08.780 can help

00:16:09.180 you is if

00:16:09.720 you understand

00:16:10.280 your body

00:16:10.780 well enough

00:16:11.360 to explain

00:16:12.440 it to me

00:16:12.940 that I

00:16:13.320 can give

00:16:13.640 you advice.

00:16:16.440 So

00:16:16.960 polar

00:16:17.960 opposites.

00:16:19.080 Okay.

00:16:19.820 One camp

00:16:20.800 is

00:16:21.580 anti-Chan.

00:16:23.180 Sure.

00:16:23.620 Sure.

00:16:23.840 One camp

00:16:24.660 swears by

00:16:25.860 you.

00:16:26.100 Sure.

00:16:26.520 He didn't

00:16:27.580 even say

00:16:27.880 100%.

00:16:28.500 Right.

00:16:28.640 He said

00:16:28.880 1,000%.

00:16:30.020 Right.

00:16:30.800 One camp

00:16:31.360 swears by

00:16:31.960 you.

00:16:32.540 One camp

00:16:33.060 doesn't.

00:16:33.960 He says

00:16:34.340 the camp

00:16:35.040 with him

00:16:35.660 because obviously

00:16:36.820 when this

00:16:37.160 interview went

00:16:37.680 live with

00:16:38.100 Sean and

00:16:38.540 what he

00:16:38.800 said the

00:16:39.220 comments he

00:16:39.920 made about

00:16:40.200 you.

00:16:40.560 Sure.

00:16:40.940 You know

00:16:41.280 my phone

00:16:42.680 from bodybuilders

00:16:43.520 from all

00:16:43.920 over.

00:16:44.140 You can't

00:16:44.540 believe this.

00:16:44.980 He's right.

00:16:45.640 You can't.

00:16:46.120 Let me tell you

00:16:46.580 what it is.

00:16:46.860 So I'm kind

00:16:47.380 of like from

00:16:47.760 the outside.

00:16:48.160 I'm not even

00:16:48.500 in the bottom.

00:16:49.100 This is not

00:16:49.720 my game.

00:16:50.280 I'm in a

00:16:50.500 completely different

00:16:50.960 game but I'm

00:16:51.500 watching what's

00:16:52.000 happening with

00:16:52.380 this thing.

00:16:53.060 And I

00:16:53.240 noticed

00:16:53.540 automatically

00:16:53.940 like Democrats

00:16:54.580 and Republicans

00:16:55.120 and there's

00:16:55.640 those in the

00:16:55.980 middle.

00:16:56.420 I'm just

00:16:56.860 kind of

00:16:57.140 stable and

00:16:57.520 out of it.

00:16:57.840 There's a

00:16:58.040 partially right

00:16:58.620 partially not.

00:16:59.300 So let's

00:17:00.280 first address

00:17:00.800 the LeVron

00:17:01.260 thing.

00:17:01.760 Then we can

00:17:02.080 come back

00:17:02.480 with what

00:17:02.800 some of

00:17:03.040 these guys

00:17:03.320 said.

00:17:03.720 So the

00:17:04.060 part about

00:17:04.500 Kevin wanted

00:17:05.000 to rip

00:17:05.280 you a new

00:17:05.500 one.

00:17:05.820 Was that

00:17:06.440 partially

00:17:06.780 right?

00:17:08.380 No.

00:17:09.060 Okay.

00:17:09.680 But there

00:17:10.360 was a

00:17:10.980 confrontation.

00:17:11.600 So here's

00:17:12.180 what happened.

00:17:12.660 So we

00:17:13.140 this is

00:17:13.920 the first

00:17:14.500 this is

00:17:14.920 98.

00:17:15.720 So the

00:17:16.300 show is

00:17:16.980 in New

00:17:17.860 York.

00:17:18.860 So me

00:17:19.520 and Kim

00:17:19.840 fly and we

00:17:20.320 get in

00:17:20.600 late.

00:17:21.080 So we

00:17:21.460 are literally

00:17:22.080 coming in

00:17:22.740 at the

00:17:23.400 end of

00:17:24.000 the press

00:17:24.360 conference.

00:17:25.200 So we're

00:17:25.560 literally

00:17:25.940 getting ready

00:17:26.500 to or it's

00:17:27.080 actually kind

00:17:27.620 of the

00:17:27.820 athletes

00:17:28.120 meeting.

00:17:28.440 It was

00:17:28.540 kind of

00:17:28.780 before they

00:17:29.220 have like

00:17:29.580 literally a

00:17:30.200 press

00:17:30.400 conference.

00:17:30.920 It's more

00:17:31.240 of a

00:17:31.580 like an

00:17:32.380 athletes

00:17:32.700 meeting.

00:17:33.040 So they're

00:17:33.240 discussing

00:17:33.700 everything

00:17:34.440 kind of

00:17:34.980 amongst

00:17:35.340 themselves

00:17:35.820 and it's

00:17:36.220 not really

00:17:36.580 an open

00:17:37.160 thing.

00:17:37.740 There's

00:17:38.000 media in

00:17:38.600 there.

00:17:38.800 There's

00:17:38.920 people in

00:17:39.300 there.

00:17:39.640 But it's

00:17:39.960 not like

00:17:40.360 it is

00:17:40.840 today.

00:17:42.400 And so

00:17:42.920 we're

00:17:43.100 walking in

00:17:43.520 there and

00:17:43.820 everybody's

00:17:44.260 like bro

00:17:45.180 you do

00:17:45.620 not want

00:17:46.180 to go

00:17:46.400 in there.

00:17:47.140 Like this

00:17:47.520 whole thing

00:17:48.080 was about

00:17:48.520 you.

00:17:48.820 And I'm

00:17:49.000 like what

00:17:49.900 do you

00:17:50.080 mean it

00:17:50.640 was about

00:17:50.960 me?

00:17:51.440 And I'm

00:17:51.680 like dude

00:17:52.740 they're

00:17:53.060 literally

00:17:53.700 ripping you

00:17:54.360 a new

00:17:54.600 asshole.

00:17:55.160 And I'm

00:17:55.300 like so

00:17:56.140 I'm

00:17:56.480 like okay

00:17:57.000 so that's

00:17:58.680 all they

00:17:58.960 said.

00:17:59.220 So we

00:17:59.360 don't know

00:17:59.620 who it

00:18:00.280 is yet.

00:18:00.700 Right?

00:18:01.260 So we

00:18:01.820 walk in

00:18:02.360 now we're

00:18:02.760 originally

00:18:03.440 thinking like

00:18:04.000 okay we

00:18:04.460 know it's

00:18:05.280 Sean.

00:18:05.620 We know

00:18:05.900 Sean's

00:18:06.340 involved but

00:18:06.720 we don't

00:18:07.000 know all

00:18:07.600 the players

00:18:08.100 yet.

00:18:08.960 So we

00:18:09.620 get in

00:18:10.180 and I'm

00:18:11.060 met by

00:18:11.760 Paul

00:18:12.120 DeLette

00:18:12.500 and Flex

00:18:14.060 Wheeler.

00:18:14.500 Just to

00:18:14.880 get the

00:18:15.140 dates right

00:18:15.560 this is

00:18:16.160 post your

00:18:17.540 call with

00:18:18.040 Boyer.

00:18:18.760 This is

00:18:19.140 post.

00:18:19.840 Yes this

00:18:20.300 is after.

00:18:20.880 This is

00:18:21.240 after that

00:18:22.100 call.

00:18:22.260 Okay go

00:18:22.860 ahead.

00:18:23.380 So we're

00:18:24.760 met we're

00:18:25.540 walking in

00:18:26.080 so we just

00:18:26.640 literally walk

00:18:27.420 into the

00:18:27.880 press conference

00:18:28.440 and it's

00:18:30.180 over.

00:18:30.860 So everybody

00:18:31.340 has kind

00:18:31.840 of made

00:18:32.660 it into

00:18:32.960 groups.

00:18:33.500 They're

00:18:33.580 talking to

00:18:34.440 press.

00:18:35.100 We walk

00:18:36.340 in and

00:18:36.920 Paul DeLette

00:18:37.520 and Flex

00:18:38.220 beeline over

00:18:39.060 to me and

00:18:39.400 they're like

00:18:39.680 bro I don't

00:18:40.960 know what's

00:18:41.240 going on but

00:18:42.120 man this

00:18:42.500 was crazy

00:18:43.500 and like

00:18:44.080 they wanted

00:18:44.540 you like

00:18:45.120 your room

00:18:45.660 searched and

00:18:46.580 like all

00:18:47.160 the stuff and

00:18:47.520 I'm like yeah

00:18:47.920 I'm cool with

00:18:48.380 that I can

00:18:48.660 search whatever

00:18:49.120 they want.

00:18:49.500 They're like

00:18:49.680 they're talking

00:18:50.020 about a black

00:18:50.580 bag.

00:18:51.040 Well the black

00:18:51.380 bag was actually

00:18:52.020 a little fanny

00:18:52.580 pack that I

00:18:53.040 wore just all

00:18:53.980 the time like

00:18:54.480 back in the

00:18:54.880 day I like

00:18:55.280 I literally

00:18:55.840 no matter

00:18:56.380 where I have

00:18:56.760 there's a

00:18:57.020 picture of

00:18:57.340 me there's

00:18:57.620 like a

00:18:57.860 fanny

00:18:58.040 packed on

00:18:58.400 and I'm

00:18:59.720 like listen

00:19:00.260 they can

00:19:00.560 search it

00:19:00.860 right now.

00:19:01.320 I don't

00:19:01.820 have a

00:19:02.080 problem with

00:19:02.420 that.

00:19:03.160 And they're

00:19:03.660 like but

00:19:04.080 yeah so this

00:19:04.920 is what all

00:19:05.480 went down

00:19:06.040 and Kevin

00:19:07.480 LeVron said

00:19:08.800 that you

00:19:09.500 called him

00:19:10.400 and literally

00:19:11.220 told him

00:19:12.060 he ain't got

00:19:12.780 a chance

00:19:13.300 in hell

00:19:13.960 of placing

00:19:14.820 in the

00:19:15.220 Olympia

00:19:15.800 without me.

00:19:17.780 Okay now

00:19:18.560 I lose my

00:19:19.260 shit.

00:19:20.280 Now like

00:19:21.100 I'm like

00:19:22.000 pissed because

00:19:22.680 up until this

00:19:23.420 point Kevin

00:19:24.200 LeVron is not

00:19:25.040 even on the

00:19:26.940 radar like

00:19:27.720 literally not

00:19:28.500 on the radar.

00:19:29.700 So now I'm

00:19:30.640 pissed and so

00:19:31.220 I happen to

00:19:31.720 just catch out

00:19:32.320 of the corner

00:19:32.700 of my eye

00:19:33.140 Kevin LeVron

00:19:34.100 walking kind

00:19:34.780 of the

00:19:34.960 outskirts

00:19:35.620 of the

00:19:37.580 ballroom.

00:19:39.720 So I just

00:19:40.600 literally meet

00:19:41.260 him like

00:19:41.900 immediately

00:19:42.600 and I'm

00:19:43.900 like dude

00:19:44.680 what what

00:19:45.460 the fuck

00:19:45.760 is this

00:19:46.120 like what

00:19:46.460 is this

00:19:46.780 like I'm

00:19:47.200 hearing that

00:19:47.660 like I

00:19:48.040 called you

00:19:48.680 and he's

00:19:49.020 like bro

00:19:49.300 bro no

00:19:49.780 it was

00:19:50.260 misunderstood

00:19:50.760 like it

00:19:51.540 was Wayne

00:19:52.020 it was Wayne

00:19:52.700 and I'm

00:19:53.280 like so now

00:19:54.540 I think he's

00:19:55.060 lying to me

00:19:55.620 now I

00:19:56.000 literally flip

00:19:56.900 out like

00:19:57.400 literally flip

00:19:58.380 out and I'm

00:19:59.380 like like

00:20:00.060 literally throwing

00:20:00.820 f-bombs and

00:20:01.440 I'm like dude

00:20:01.980 I'll beat your

00:20:02.780 ass right here.

00:20:03.740 Okay so I'm

00:20:04.740 like at this

00:20:05.440 point like I'm

00:20:06.140 going

00:20:06.360 You're telling

00:20:06.720 this to Kevin

00:20:07.240 Kevin LeVron

00:20:07.920 I'm gonna beat

00:20:08.460 his ass right

00:20:09.060 there.

00:20:09.600 So he's got a

00:20:10.280 training partner

00:20:10.940 behind him.

00:20:11.640 So I'm probably

00:20:12.280 300 pounds right

00:20:13.840 here.

00:20:14.000 He's got this

00:20:14.580 training partner

00:20:15.120 behind him who

00:20:15.780 is also probably

00:20:16.740 300 pounds right

00:20:17.860 so he steps up

00:20:19.300 and he's like

00:20:19.620 what did you say

00:20:20.300 and so now I'm

00:20:22.020 like screaming

00:20:22.660 back and forth

00:20:23.400 like and we're

00:20:24.080 literally three

00:20:25.620 seconds from

00:20:26.340 going like we're

00:20:27.340 getting ready to

00:20:27.780 go.

00:20:28.120 Who's on your

00:20:28.600 side right now?

00:20:29.220 Paul Dillon and

00:20:29.700 Flex are around

00:20:30.320 you?

00:20:30.660 Dillon and Flex are

00:20:30.800 back there like

00:20:31.780 Kim is trying to

00:20:32.460 stay between us

00:20:33.400 like I'm screaming

00:20:34.540 like LeVron is

00:20:35.600 right there but

00:20:36.280 through the whole

00:20:36.820 time LeVron is

00:20:37.640 like bro this is

00:20:38.620 a misunderstanding

00:20:39.200 like this is not

00:20:40.200 you know like I

00:20:40.740 didn't say that

00:20:41.480 like it was

00:20:42.180 Wayne D'Amelio

00:20:43.100 da da da da da

00:20:43.820 but then you know

00:20:45.220 like the training

00:20:45.700 partner steps in

00:20:46.300 so then Steve

00:20:47.480 Weinberger like

00:20:48.780 literally grabs me

00:20:49.880 and is like dude

00:20:50.920 you gotta chill out

00:20:52.100 like and I'm like

00:20:52.780 man I'm tired of

00:20:53.740 this shit.

00:20:54.440 I'm fed up with

00:20:55.220 these you know

00:20:55.880 guys running their

00:20:56.880 mouth like I'm

00:20:57.840 gonna beat their

00:20:58.560 fucking ass right

00:20:59.420 here.

00:21:00.100 Shut the door

00:21:00.720 and he's like

00:21:02.820 dude you gotta

00:21:03.260 chill out like

00:21:03.800 this is not the

00:21:04.340 place and I'm

00:21:04.780 like alright you're

00:21:05.980 right this is not

00:21:06.680 the place right.

00:21:08.300 So now do you have

00:21:08.780 a relationship with

00:21:09.540 him outside like

00:21:10.260 are you guys good?

00:21:11.100 You and Steve?

00:21:11.800 Yes me and Steve

00:21:12.700 are good yeah so

00:21:13.380 that's why he grabbed

00:21:14.020 me.

00:21:14.200 How about Wayne just

00:21:14.800 to put it all

00:21:15.340 together?

00:21:15.860 So Wayne's a

00:21:16.520 different story

00:21:17.120 Wayne's a different

00:21:17.980 story right?

00:21:18.540 Because Sean also

00:21:18.640 doesn't like Wayne

00:21:19.340 yeah they don't but

00:21:20.380 at the time they

00:21:21.020 were kind of

00:21:21.920 you know 98

00:21:23.200 not on one

00:21:23.760 right and so

00:21:25.100 big Steve grabs me

00:21:26.400 he's like dude you

00:21:27.080 know how this is

00:21:27.680 people talk like you

00:21:28.800 know he calms me

00:21:29.480 down you gotta stop

00:21:30.380 this shit blah blah

00:21:31.280 it's not the time

00:21:32.340 I realize it.

00:21:33.520 So literally like

00:21:34.880 we were three

00:21:36.020 seconds from just

00:21:37.240 you know 600

00:21:37.960 pounds of stupidity

00:21:39.160 like you know

00:21:40.000 bouncing around

00:21:40.840 in the ballroom

00:21:41.560 of the you know

00:21:42.520 Olympia press

00:21:43.780 conference like

00:21:44.560 just an idiot

00:21:45.260 really basically

00:21:46.160 that's what you

00:21:46.900 know and so

00:21:48.860 at the whole

00:21:49.860 weekend though

00:21:50.600 like they literally

00:21:51.360 assigned a security

00:21:53.660 guard to LeBron

00:21:55.400 so LeBron's got

00:21:56.200 the security guard

00:21:56.900 with him and I'm

00:21:57.620 thinking like and

00:21:58.320 so I tell Steve

00:21:59.400 like dude

00:21:59.860 like really

00:22:01.020 like you're like

00:22:02.760 and they're like

00:22:03.320 ah it's just

00:22:03.840 for precautions

00:22:04.540 they know you're

00:22:05.500 pissed and all

00:22:06.320 this and I'm

00:22:06.780 like like I was

00:22:07.760 pissed like 30

00:22:08.700 minutes ago

00:22:09.220 I'm not pissed

00:22:09.860 anymore.

00:22:10.580 Now what reputation

00:22:11.340 do you have at

00:22:11.740 this time?

00:22:12.120 Do you have a

00:22:12.360 reputation of

00:22:13.240 somebody that

00:22:13.680 loses it?

00:22:14.300 Are you feared?

00:22:15.020 Not really.

00:22:15.640 Are you a chill

00:22:16.300 guy or are you

00:22:16.900 like an underground

00:22:17.500 guy?

00:22:17.880 I'm kind of a chill

00:22:18.440 guy but like

00:22:19.220 everybody knew who

00:22:19.840 my friends were

00:22:20.540 like everybody

00:22:21.220 knew who I

00:22:21.820 like they knew

00:22:23.780 like who I ran

00:22:24.620 with so they knew.

00:22:25.300 Friends as in

00:22:25.680 bodybuilder friends

00:22:26.360 or friends like you

00:22:27.120 had some scary

00:22:28.440 friends.

00:22:28.780 Yeah.

00:22:29.200 Okay.

00:22:29.580 Got it.

00:22:30.320 Got it.

00:22:30.800 And so but I don't

00:22:31.640 think that was really

00:22:32.480 I think it was just

00:22:33.500 you were connected in

00:22:34.480 a way that they knew

00:22:35.440 yes.

00:22:36.000 To not cross you.

00:22:36.900 Yeah.

00:22:37.360 Well I don't know

00:22:37.780 about that.

00:22:38.260 I just think that

00:22:38.920 everybody was at that

00:22:40.820 time like hey listen

00:22:42.000 you know this is what

00:22:42.740 we do and this is

00:22:43.960 what's going to

00:22:44.340 happen if this is

00:22:45.120 what you know if

00:22:46.000 this goes down.

00:22:46.580 Okay.

00:22:47.060 Now as the weekend

00:22:49.220 goes on it becomes

00:22:50.500 very apparent that

00:22:52.320 Kevin LeBron didn't

00:22:53.380 have shit to do

00:22:54.060 with anything.

00:22:55.200 Okay.

00:22:55.680 So that so

00:22:56.740 literally it didn't

00:22:58.460 have anything to do

00:22:59.200 with Kevin.

00:22:59.860 Like it was literally

00:23:02.160 Wayne D'Amelia and

00:23:04.120 Sean Ray like back

00:23:06.260 and forth just

00:23:06.980 stirring the pot and

00:23:08.720 it became very

00:23:09.600 apparent of that

00:23:10.320 right off the bat and

00:23:11.560 I literally I didn't

00:23:14.020 do it that weekend

00:23:14.860 because obviously I

00:23:15.880 stayed completely away

00:23:16.920 from Kevin LeBron

00:23:17.580 because obviously he

00:23:18.340 was competing the

00:23:18.980 last thing I wanted

00:23:19.580 to do was create a

00:23:20.540 more of a you know

00:23:21.380 bullshit drama for

00:23:22.440 him.

00:23:24.140 But later on I

00:23:25.480 absolutely apologized

00:23:26.640 to him told him

00:23:27.520 like look man I

00:23:28.200 totally lost my

00:23:29.220 shit but that was

00:23:30.540 because of Sean like

00:23:31.760 I literally should

00:23:32.620 have never done that

00:23:33.500 it was a wrong time

00:23:35.080 wrong place like it

00:23:36.420 was idiotic you know

00:23:37.600 type of thing.

00:23:38.960 Me and Kevin shook

00:23:40.080 hands we never ever

00:23:41.000 had a problem ever

00:23:41.960 again from that.

00:23:43.180 Ever?

00:23:43.720 Ever.

00:23:43.980 No.

00:23:44.240 I get along with

00:23:45.500 Are you in

00:23:46.240 communication with

00:23:46.840 Kevin now?

00:23:47.100 I don't communicate

00:23:47.700 with him but I mean

00:23:48.340 we're friendly.

00:23:48.760 I was just curious to

00:23:49.120 know if maybe you got

00:23:49.840 a message saying hey

00:23:50.600 did you see the

00:23:51.440 interview that didn't

00:23:52.460 happen that hasn't

00:23:53.200 happened.

00:23:53.220 We don't communicate

00:23:53.860 back and forth like

00:23:54.580 that but like when he

00:23:55.660 was making a comeback

00:23:56.380 you know I reached out

00:23:58.080 to him like dude you

00:23:58.920 know I'd love to you

00:23:59.660 know I can't wait to

00:24:00.160 see on stage type of

00:24:01.040 thing.

00:24:01.280 We were friendly with

00:24:02.120 Jesus in no way shape

00:24:03.500 or form when I say

00:24:04.060 we're friends but like

00:24:05.100 you know we're friendly

00:24:05.900 with each other and I

00:24:06.760 have a lot of respect

00:24:07.380 for him and I would to

00:24:10.020 this day say like that you

00:24:11.640 know me jumping the gun

00:24:12.500 that was 100% my fault

00:24:13.760 like I just lost my

00:24:15.560 shit because of all

00:24:16.400 the stuff that had you

00:24:17.640 know went on and

00:24:18.340 that's what happened

00:24:18.960 but at no point did

00:24:21.080 Kevin LeVrone like rip

00:24:22.840 his shirt off like

00:24:24.540 again like that is so

00:24:26.300 like far-fetched and

00:24:27.640 and literally there was

00:24:28.740 20 people around like

00:24:30.280 there was 20 people

00:24:31.280 standing around watching

00:24:32.700 the whole thing which

00:24:33.740 for Sean to say is

00:24:35.060 literally delusional like

00:24:36.760 that's the part that like

00:24:37.760 is crazy and the part

00:24:39.080 that is weird and I was

00:24:41.220 a cop for five years

00:24:42.360 and people that lie

00:24:44.220 all the time literally

00:24:45.940 when they lie to their

00:24:48.140 spouses or to their

00:24:49.540 employers they do it

00:24:51.040 all the time they end

00:24:52.840 up blurring reality and

00:24:54.820 the lie and so they just

00:24:56.560 don't understand and

00:24:57.640 because the lie is

00:24:58.580 usually what rotates in

00:24:59.780 their head most of the

00:25:00.980 time they don't know

00:25:01.820 the truth they don't

00:25:02.740 understand the truth

00:25:03.600 they don't know where

00:25:04.320 the truth is so for him

00:25:06.120 to literally come up with

00:25:07.400 a story that you know

00:25:09.000 Kevin LaVrone was like

00:25:10.540 angered and he was like

00:25:12.000 this madman dripping in

00:25:14.120 sweat and he rips his

00:25:15.140 shirt off and he's ready

00:25:15.980 to fight me was

00:25:17.060 literally idiotic like

00:25:18.840 idiotic and and really

00:25:20.760 like yeah I lost my cool

00:25:22.660 and but it was actually

00:25:24.340 probably closer to me and

00:25:25.460 the training partner

00:25:26.300 getting into it because

00:25:27.780 the training partner

00:25:28.440 ended up stepping forward

00:25:29.740 and that was literally

00:25:30.920 more of it and Steve

00:25:33.180 Weinberger broke the

00:25:34.100 entire thing up you know

00:25:35.700 like pulled me off

00:25:36.800 calmed me down sent me

00:25:38.640 on my way we and

00:25:39.660 everything was fine like

00:25:40.560 it was over with that

00:25:41.400 me and and again me and

00:25:42.920 Kevin never had another

00:25:43.900 problem after that ever

00:25:45.400 when's the last time you

00:25:47.600 and Sean spoke spoke spoke

00:25:50.480 spoke spoke so me and

00:25:51.740 Dan Solomon done a radio

00:25:52.960 podcast called pro body

00:25:54.340 building okay weekly and I

00:25:57.380 believe he was on there

00:25:58.560 this is how long ago this

00:26:01.140 has been

00:26:01.700 eight years ago probably

00:26:06.400 eight years ago that's a

00:26:07.600 while back yeah it's been

00:26:08.540 a long time okay so me and

00:26:10.160 Sean haven't talked any time

00:26:11.660 soon outside of that eight

00:26:13.420 years have you had any kind

00:26:14.660 of a interaction any dinner

00:26:16.180 or lunch nothing zero no

00:26:18.780 nothing nothing and that's

00:26:20.100 public people know you and

00:26:21.520 Sean are on different

00:26:22.140 camps absolutely okay yeah

00:26:23.620 100% so let me ask you a

00:26:25.300 question who else would

00:26:27.300 agree because yesterday I

00:26:28.620 was reading some of the

00:26:29.300 posts and people were tagging

00:26:30.300 me and I saw what a couple

00:26:32.660 people posted Samir posted

00:26:34.360 what Sean said and all these

00:26:35.460 guys and I was kind of being

00:26:36.780 tagged me the Samir one too

00:26:38.120 yeah so I'm getting I'm

00:26:39.000 getting all this stuff and

00:26:39.720 again I'm reading I'm like

00:26:41.100 okay good okay this person

00:26:42.300 saying this and there was a

00:26:44.380 lot of people involved

00:26:45.360 Bob even got involved

00:26:46.600 you know some people got

00:26:47.960 involved so their camp if

00:26:51.000 they're saying that was

00:26:52.720 there anybody that was

00:26:53.940 worried about you getting

00:26:55.020 close to the other guys

00:26:56.560 like there was a story about

00:26:57.780 they were trying to get

00:26:58.720 everybody to be tested that

00:26:59.960 year because it was the

00:27:00.620 open is there truth behind

00:27:02.080 that part where they were

00:27:03.100 I mean they were

00:27:03.640 absolutely trying to get it

00:27:04.620 tested yeah they were

00:27:05.620 trying to get the guys in

00:27:06.420 your camp tested they they

00:27:08.200 wanted the whole show

00:27:08.980 tested I believe because

00:27:10.240 they were under the

00:27:11.160 impression that my guys had

00:27:12.700 an unfair advantage so

00:27:14.380 that's where like the

00:27:15.980 plasma expander stuff

00:27:17.440 stories you know became and

00:27:19.620 so they wanted they they

00:27:22.380 basically wanted a blood test

00:27:23.820 for plasma expanders because

00:27:25.480 they thought that would even

00:27:27.300 the playing field and the

00:27:29.300 funny story of that is so

00:27:31.180 Wayne D'Amelia calls me like

00:27:33.040 before the Olympia and is

00:27:34.700 talking to me and he says

00:27:36.200 listen we're going to test

00:27:39.260 we're going to blood test at

00:27:41.000 the at the Olympia and I'm

00:27:42.020 like it's all right and

00:27:44.340 they're like we're going to

00:27:45.120 blood test for plasma

00:27:46.260 expanders and I'm like okay

00:27:48.280 and he's like you know so I

00:27:50.700 just wanted to let you know

00:27:51.800 and I'm like listen you

00:27:52.680 realize that none of my guys

00:27:54.220 are using plasma expanders I

00:27:55.500 go I said if you knew

00:27:57.360 anything about plasma

00:27:58.500 expanders you would realize

00:27:59.860 that to use them you

00:28:01.660 actually need a diuretic so

00:28:04.080 a plasma expander will pull

00:28:05.720 water into the blood but you

00:28:07.240 still have to be able to get

00:28:08.500 rid of the water so I said

00:28:10.800 what you need to do is

00:28:13.160 there's five diuretics that

00:28:15.600 you realize aren't on the

00:28:16.980 diuretic list right I said if

00:28:19.540 you're going to test for the

00:28:21.020 plasma expanders and you

00:28:22.740 literally want to make this a

00:28:25.140 hundred percent add the five

00:28:27.320 diuretics and he's like well

00:28:30.580 we're comfortable with the

00:28:32.120 diuretic test we're just

00:28:34.540 concerned about the plasma

00:28:36.000 expanders now the five

00:28:38.740 diuretics that were very

00:28:40.520 common off the diuretic test

00:28:42.940 was clearly what everybody

00:28:44.880 was going to use nobody needed

00:28:47.020 plasma expanders because there

00:28:49.020 was already diuretics that was

00:28:50.880 available to them that wasn't

00:28:52.420 going to be tested so the whole

00:28:54.380 thing the whole staged like

00:28:56.960 check his bag and all of this

00:28:59.180 kind of stuff was idiotic

00:29:01.420 because in reality Wayne

00:29:03.640 D'Amelio knew that there was

00:29:05.780 tests there was diuretics off the

00:29:08.280 test to begin with not only did

00:29:10.500 he know he literally told certain

00:29:14.080 athletes like hey listen most of

00:29:17.500 the athletes are using this diuretic

00:29:19.720 because it's not on the list like

00:29:22.760 it was very well known very well

00:29:25.560 known very well nobody so why is he

00:29:27.760 calling you though what is so

00:29:29.480 again is it was it is is that the

00:29:31.540 world where everyone knows who the

00:29:34.180 you know the the Chad Nichols is

00:29:36.440 because there's names of them out

00:29:37.480 there that people use are there's

00:29:38.980 you know the names that are okay

00:29:40.240 are they very close in

00:29:42.340 communication with folks like when

00:29:43.960 Wayne was like hey here's what we're

00:29:45.340 looking at this you're no that was a

00:29:46.980 one-off thing that happened it was

00:29:48.560 well I mean it was when you know the

00:29:50.320 the whole diuretic thing took place

00:29:52.060 but I think that what ended up

00:29:53.700 happening was my athletes literally

00:29:57.180 changed sport like they looked

00:30:01.600 different like they were in better

00:30:03.820 shape they were drier they were more

00:30:05.940 conditioned and literally the people

00:30:09.540 were like well obviously if that's the

00:30:12.340 way they look there has to be

00:30:14.640 something he has to have something

00:30:16.980 that is clearly not available to

00:30:20.260 everybody else like and that's I

00:30:22.420 believe what you know and so I don't

00:30:24.660 necessarily know they ever had planned

00:30:26.460 on direct you know I mean blood

00:30:28.900 testing because it would be just an

00:30:31.380 monumental you know undertaking I think

00:30:34.740 the whole thing was they were trying

00:30:36.200 to be like well maybe he does have

00:30:37.740 something so we're gonna scare the

00:30:39.000 shit out of him and out of him out of

00:30:41.760 me okay yeah and so well you know is he

00:30:44.600 am I gonna be this am I gonna be that

00:30:46.440 but in reality there never was anything

00:30:48.720 there never was whatever happened to

00:30:50.220 you what would they were able to do

00:30:51.940 anything out of you or no nothing can

00:30:53.400 you go to do you go to Mr. Olympia every

00:30:55.020 year every year every year you're there

00:30:56.660 absolutely and how are you treated when

00:30:58.200 you go there but just like normal normal

00:31:00.420 guy that's absolutely no one's giving you

00:31:02.040 a hard time any of that stuff okay so

00:31:04.200 are there any other people that have bad

00:31:06.600 relationships with you at the level of

00:31:08.040 shot or no I don't think so nothing not

00:31:10.720 that people know the marketplace I mean

00:31:12.240 don't know I mean there's there's no

00:31:13.620 doubt I think that even you know when

00:31:15.360 you come out with this like listen I

00:31:16.680 could I could give you every possible

00:31:18.840 scenario of why Sean lied but at the end

00:31:21.540 of the day there's gonna be people that

00:31:23.040 like me and they will believe me and

00:31:24.180 there's gonna be people like Sean they

00:31:25.320 will believe him but at the end of it

00:31:28.040 all Sean is literally the one that had

00:31:33.120 the biggest hard-on for me and it was

00:31:35.040 very obvious why he did because like he

00:31:38.100 said he just like he said in 96 you

00:31:40.620 know I didn't I didn't need anybody's

00:31:42.000 help because I play second to Dorian

00:31:44.160 Yates actually plays third but Nasser

00:31:47.280 flunked the diuretic test which then

00:31:49.800 moved him into second place and like you

00:31:53.700 know he was like I you know this is this

00:31:55.980 is you know who I am type of thing but

00:31:58.440 unfortunately he never placed in the top

00:32:02.160 three ever again ever and my guys beat

00:32:06.420 him from that point on like without a

00:32:09.360 doubt and the more angry he got the more

00:32:13.020 driven I became and the more like like I

00:32:17.940 mean there was a point where potentially I

00:32:20.340 would have probably worked with every

00:32:23.340 one of his competitors for free just to

00:32:28.320 bury him

00:32:29.220 let me ask you a different question

00:32:31.140 here's a question for you say he did

00:32:33.480 work with you let's just say yes let's

00:32:36.840 just say you got your story history

00:32:39.060 everybody's gonna hear both sides let's

00:32:40.620 just say you know somebody came in says

00:32:43.320 listen let's just try to make this work

00:32:45.000 let's just say you did would he have had

00:32:47.460 a chance to win at all no no that's a

00:32:50.580 that's a strong statement because he's

00:32:51.780 been second he's been top 5 30

00:32:54.060 competitions you know he's beaten

00:32:55.460 everybody outside of Haney and Yates

00:32:56.940 you're saying there's no way even if you

00:32:59.100 work with him that he could win the whole

00:33:00.360 thing no chance

00:33:01.200 why is that here's the thing so during the

00:33:03.900 time frame that I would have came in from

00:33:05.880 97 on yeah Flex Wheeler is also in the

00:33:10.140 mix and Ronnie Coleman is in the mix and I

00:33:13.620 can tell you that Sean Ray at a hundred

00:33:16.320 percent doesn't beat either one of those

00:33:19.680 guys at 90 percent no chance and is he is he a

00:33:24.240 good bodybuilder look I think he's a piece

00:33:26.160 of shit person I'm not going to deny that

00:33:28.500 he was a good bodybuilder like ever like of

00:33:30.900 course he was a good bodybuilder but was

00:33:33.000 he a Flex Wheeler bodybuilder no he wasn't a Flex

00:33:36.600 Wheeler bodybuilder he didn't have the

00:33:38.160 genetics of Flex Wheeler he didn't have

00:33:40.440 anything close to that was he close to

00:33:44.280 Ronnie Coleman look nobody's close to Ronnie

00:33:45.900 Coleman at a hundred percent nobody I don't

00:33:47.700 care what anybody says they can idolize

00:33:50.100 whoever they want Ronnie if you look at

00:33:53.220 Ronnie in 2003 we may never see that again

00:33:57.060 ever like I mean if we do it'll be an

00:34:01.980 amazing sight but he was that far ahead of

00:34:05.100 everybody that far ahead so if you work

00:34:08.820 with you again let me take this back I

00:34:11.040 know you weren't in 90 96 but the two

00:34:13.320 years where he got he was right behind

00:34:14.940 Yates Yates if you did could he have one

00:34:18.960 at all with Yates maybe not Ronnie maybe

00:34:21.180 not Flex how about against Yates it's

00:34:24.120 close you're still saying it's close it's

00:34:26.580 close not a hundred percent not a hundred

00:34:28.260 percent okay yeah so even with a injured

00:34:31.140 Yates he would have still an injured

00:34:32.760 weight an injured Yates yes he would have

00:34:35.580 won he possibly wins so yeah the only reason

00:34:38.280 I'm asking this question is because you

00:34:40.360 you know sometimes when somebody obviously

00:34:42.780 you said you know how you feel about him as an

00:34:44.520 individual but as a bodybuilder it is what

00:34:45.900 it is it's still credit to you to be able

00:34:48.000 to say that if you had it he could have won

00:34:49.320 the whole thing he's still somebody that

00:34:50.580 at the end of the day like Yates was

00:34:52.220 injured I thought I thought Nasser beating

00:34:54.120 I thought Nasser beating there's numerous

00:34:56.620 guys that you know like Flex Wheeler at a

00:34:58.960 hundred percent on that given day beats

00:35:00.940 him like he you know Dorian was very

00:35:03.480 vulnerable that year like he wasn't you

00:35:06.620 know the Dorian of you know the the years

00:35:09.360 that he was so dominant like he was a very

00:35:11.160 vulnerable athlete what year 98

00:35:13.500 97 okay so 97 he was a vulnerable he had

00:35:18.240 had the injury he wasn't in good shape he

00:35:20.740 had trouble controlling his midsection like

00:35:22.460 it was a train wreck for him but he he

00:35:25.200 luckily pulled it off you know and and it's

00:35:28.040 probably still to this day it's probably one of

00:35:30.460 the most controversial you know wins he's you

00:35:33.760 know he's got dominant body parts but when

00:35:35.720 you put you know you go pose for pose it's a

00:35:38.880 tough it's tough to get to the point where

00:35:42.480 you can justify him winning and don't get me

00:35:44.820 wrong I'm a Dorian Yates fan like I love

00:35:47.220 everything about him everything his work

00:35:49.840 ethic his like I love all of that you

00:35:52.740 know but just on that given year he just

00:35:55.620 wasn't his best so okay so now let's talk

00:35:58.020 about the other part so what what made you so

00:36:01.620 different than everybody else's camp

00:36:03.720 everybody has access to certain things but

00:36:06.480 what was so different with you I think the

00:36:08.520 difference is so you're exactly right

00:36:09.960 everybody has access to the same thing

00:36:11.820 everybody does every okay so there isn't

00:36:14.320 like a magic potion out here that all of a

00:36:17.160 sudden this camp has like you know I mean it

00:36:20.720 doesn't matter like you've heard all the

00:36:22.020 stories about Kuwait like okay you know

00:36:24.460 like yeah all that like oh shit like you

00:36:26.780 know that they had the anabolic chicken

00:36:28.420 everything but at the end of the day they

00:36:30.620 have access to exactly the same things

00:36:33.560 that everybody else has a lot of people

00:36:35.840 say that a lot I don't say that our

00:36:37.040 stuff is better than you know Europe or

00:36:39.500 Australia or you guys actually I disagree

00:36:41.660 like I think our knowledge may be a

00:36:43.880 little ahead I think as far as like the

00:36:46.160 science behind everything but what they

00:36:49.040 have access to like as far as

00:36:51.020 supplementation I got it so you know all

00:36:53.060 the same so it's all the same okay so

00:36:54.740 what is the differentiator how you piece it

00:36:56.720 together how you put it together so I

00:36:58.580 think the difference is a couple things

00:37:01.160 one you have to be able to motivate these

00:37:03.020 guys and you have to be able to click

00:37:04.160 with them so that's why like listen I

00:37:05.660 didn't take on every athlete that wanted

00:37:07.040 to work with me because there was

00:37:08.240 athletes that I knew that we were just

00:37:09.980 not going to click not that I disliked

00:37:12.440 them not that I thought there was anything

00:37:14.480 bad about them I just knew like we

00:37:16.460 weren't going to be a good working

00:37:17.660 relationship I think that the key is that

00:37:20.720 the other key is I think most nutritionists

00:37:23.560 have one way of thinking they have one way

00:37:26.420 of doing everything so keto diet is very

00:37:30.140 you know very popular right now there's

00:37:31.760 a lot of trainers that swear by a keto

00:37:34.040 diet but it is virtually impossible to

00:37:36.440 think that every bodybuilder that gets

00:37:38.360 ready for a show is going to be a hundred

00:37:40.760 percent on a keto diet it's impossible but

00:37:44.000 most trainers think that way there they

00:37:46.660 only have one process that's it it you

00:37:49.220 know if it's high carb or if it's whatever

00:37:51.380 it is that's the process that's what

00:37:53.760 they try to apply to everyone and they

00:37:57.440 try to force that bodybuilder to with you

00:38:00.600 know come within that guideline I never

00:38:03.380 thought that way ever I didn't think that

00:38:06.020 way on nutrition I didn't think that way

00:38:07.940 on training I felt like everything had to

00:38:10.880 be individualized I felt like it had to

00:38:13.380 be something one that they could do so

00:38:15.560 flex perfect example I knew that he

00:38:19.040 wasn't going to be a guy that was going

00:38:20.800 to be just you know regimented in it and

00:38:24.160 like this like nitpicky guy that's going

00:38:26.100 to be able to eat X amount of this

00:38:27.800 you're going based on personality as well

00:38:29.420 personality like and and a lot of that

00:38:31.820 was how I literally was able to get from

00:38:35.080 point A to point B so successfully because

00:38:37.860 with each person you have to manage that

00:38:41.200 and you know eventually you end up with a

00:38:43.860 guy like Ronnie Coleman who is just a

00:38:45.700 machine and you know I remember the first

00:38:48.020 time like we we did stuff together and he

00:38:50.480 won the Olympia and it's funny like the

00:38:52.880 whole time I was I was telling guys like

00:38:54.320 man Ronnie Coleman looks crazy and they're

00:38:55.740 like that third place best you know

00:38:57.200 they're they literally didn't think you

00:38:58.500 know until they saw him and then after

00:39:00.740 the thing and I've told this story before

00:39:02.900 I said you know Ronnie just for my

00:39:04.620 personal you know and because I've dealt

00:39:06.980 with all these guys just for my personal

00:39:09.000 use as far as like what happened how many

00:39:11.960 times do you think you cheated on your diet

00:39:13.600 this was at the banquet and he looked like

00:39:16.020 I mean like I was nuts and he's like it

00:39:18.480 never even crossed my mind and I was like

00:39:21.180 and I knew at that point like oh this is

00:39:24.240 gonna be nuts like this guy is a different

00:39:27.240 human being but you had you couldn't take

00:39:30.900 that way of thinking with a flex wheeler or

00:39:33.360 like Chris Cormier like listen like Chris

00:39:35.580 Cormier was like I always called it like the

00:39:38.220 chaos factor because if everything was going

00:39:40.620 good for Chris we were a big trouble like that

00:39:43.240 I was not going to work for Chris Chris had to

00:39:45.200 be kind of around this process of people and

00:39:49.420 things and stuff but there had to be a

00:39:51.640 controlled like point that we had to get

00:39:56.020 done like I knew that if he wasn't busy

00:39:59.140 like doing stuff he was going to literally

00:40:02.560 be sitting at home playing PlayStation eating

00:40:05.080 Captain Crunch like I knew that's what he's

00:40:07.060 going to do okay so there had to be a

00:40:09.300 process with that that's not a bad thing on

00:40:11.640 Chris it's just how he is how he is yeah okay

00:40:14.220 most people could not figure that out they

00:40:16.620 couldn't micromanage all of those things or

00:40:18.840 whatever you want to put that together they

00:40:20.880 just couldn't do it they forced them to go

00:40:23.420 keto because this is my process and this is

00:40:26.520 how it works and this is how I do everybody

00:40:28.440 and this is how you have to do it that's how I

00:40:31.380 think I was so successful like and I did the

00:40:33.680 same thing with training some people like look I

00:40:36.520 wasn't going to be able to have you know Flex

00:40:39.700 Wheeler trained the way Ronnie Coleman did

00:40:41.920 how many of these guys you trained as well

00:40:43.480 okay a lot of them trained most like did a

00:40:45.940 lot of their stuff on their own but I would

00:40:47.980 like gear like like you know push them in

00:40:51.100 certain directions so if they were doing a

00:40:53.380 certain thing now a lot of things like

00:40:55.060 where Flex had Charles Glass but again we

00:40:57.280 would communicate because I would want to

00:40:59.140 know what Charles Glass was doing because

00:41:00.620 what Charles Glass was doing it depended on

00:41:02.980 what his diet was doing so it you know like

00:41:05.900 listen if they all of a sudden are going

00:41:07.260 high volume I can't do certain things with

00:41:09.940 his diet because they're going heavyweight

00:41:11.760 and high volume how often were you talking

00:41:13.340 to Charles I didn't talk to Charles a lot

00:41:14.760 but I communicated more with Flex like okay

00:41:17.140 this is the direction we're going this week

00:41:19.500 and this is the things that we're doing now

00:41:21.780 me and Charles you know would communicate a

00:41:23.840 little bit yeah but it was mostly through

00:41:25.320 through the athletes and stuff but the same

00:41:27.720 with Chris like I knew Chris you know when he

00:41:29.960 built the physique that he built he built it

00:41:32.300 off of hard work so even though like Chris may

00:41:35.220 not have been the best dieter like you know

00:41:37.800 as far as things and he would you know

00:41:40.140 sometimes you know be out late at night

00:41:41.980 and partying and doing the things that

00:41:43.740 Chris did he still was a hard worker in the

00:41:46.980 gym he pushed a lot of heavyweight that's

00:41:49.020 how he built that physique and so you know I

00:41:51.240 had to make sure that like look that's what

00:41:53.000 we got to do you know when it comes you

00:41:55.440 know contest time like we've got to you

00:41:57.220 know go those directions and stuff and I

00:41:59.060 mean that was part of the success like I

00:42:01.380 didn't ever I never tried to adapt them to

00:42:05.400 me I always tried to adapt to them and

00:42:08.340 apply and you don't think most people do

00:42:10.380 that I don't know anybody does it okay so

00:42:12.140 let me ask you this other question how

00:42:13.140 much of it is genetics how much of it is

00:42:15.960 training how much of it is diet how much

00:42:18.620 of it is drugs so it's the biggest issue

00:42:23.340 is food so I'm telling that number one

00:42:25.620 that's number one so food is without a

00:42:28.800 doubt number one and when you say food

00:42:30.420 what do you mean by food I mean being

00:42:31.980 consistent and that doesn't mean that

00:42:33.840 doesn't mean offseason or contest that's

00:42:37.440 across the board so if you are in the

00:42:40.620 offseason and you're not consistent with

00:42:42.420 food if you're not continuously pushing

00:42:44.220 food and it's probably every it's probably

00:42:45.840 the majority of athletes downfall because

00:42:48.300 they get to offseason and they're like

00:42:49.800 yeah it's offseason like I don't I don't

00:42:52.260 have to eat six meals a day I don't have to

00:42:54.780 quite do if I don't feel like eating I'll

00:42:56.460 just skip a meal and I'll go grab some fast

00:42:58.380 food and these things it's probably the

00:43:00.780 biggest downfall it's hard to eat six

00:43:04.200 seven eight meals a day with high

00:43:07.440 calories so that your body is literally

00:43:09.780 in a calorie surplus all the time every

00:43:13.500 single day it's hard to do it's probably

00:43:16.320 how I end up weaning out more athletes

00:43:18.840 than not because they'll be like I can

00:43:20.700 eat all day I'll never have a problem and

00:43:22.740 five days later like there's no way I can

00:43:24.660 eat all this food it's just tough most

00:43:26.760 people don't realize it that's first though

00:43:28.740 without a doubt hard work and training a

00:43:32.160 second so second without a doubt is

00:43:34.800 training so you have to be able to push

00:43:37.620 yourself you have to be able to put in

00:43:40.440 work and again consistency you have to be

00:43:43.560 able to figure out what works for you you

00:43:45.780 have to be able to go in every single day

00:43:47.940 and push beyond really what the body is

00:43:51.060 capable of push push push mentally third

00:43:54.780 is probably drugs is it it would be

00:43:59.100 ludicrous to say that it's not part of it

00:44:01.560 because at the highest level it is part of

00:44:04.860 it but it's definitely after food and

00:44:07.800 training and then after that is probably

00:44:10.500 genetics is going to fall in between

00:44:12.240 probably training and drugs actually so

00:44:14.940 you don't think genetics more important

00:44:16.320 than food no you really know I don't can

00:44:19.260 I ask you a question on that challenge

00:44:20.580 yeah so here's a question for you

00:44:21.880 competed yeah right okay you when you

00:44:25.140 competed you you know this stuff so you

00:44:28.140 could have applied it for yourself to go

00:44:29.760 to the top right absolutely and I'm and

00:44:31.620 only the only reason I'm asking this is

00:44:32.940 because some guys you know like I'm six

00:44:35.160 four and a half right the chances of me

00:44:37.100 going out there the tallest guy that ever

00:44:38.560 wanted you know who it is right Arnold so

00:44:39.900 right you don't you think like there's a

00:44:41.700 sweet spot there is a genetics to cut

00:44:43.700 there's no doubt you look at some of

00:44:45.460 these guys without a doubt you without a

00:44:47.500 doubt like with me like talking to win

00:44:49.640 I'm not absolutely about to compete yes

00:44:51.120 yeah to win for sure now that's a whole

00:44:53.660 different genetics is first with it's

00:44:56.280 definitely at the top of the of the game

00:44:58.540 because when you're because when you're

00:45:00.020 talking tiny tiny percentages like you're

00:45:03.480 talking like because when you look at

00:45:05.160 the you know you can look at the top

00:45:07.340 group right now so the top three at the

00:45:09.100 Olympia was Brandon you you had

00:45:11.540 Bonac and you had Hottie okay so all

00:45:15.160 three of those guys are phenomenal

00:45:17.360 phenomenal bodybuilders but in reality

00:45:20.460 none of them have the genetics of Phil

00:45:24.540 Heath none of them which is why if Phil

00:45:28.880 Heath is in that group he is a superior

00:45:31.500 athlete without a doubt but when you look

00:45:35.120 at all three of those they all three have

00:45:38.040 phenomenal genetics so there's no way you

00:45:41.220 can say like Brandon Curry has bad

00:45:43.020 genetics William Bonac has bad genetics

00:45:45.860 they all have at the top top of the

00:45:50.480 genetic field but there is always going

00:45:53.980 to be that outlying guy that is a Phil

00:45:58.460 Heath and a Flex Wheeler that is just

00:46:01.460 God-given that there's no hard work that

00:46:05.000 there's no that there is or that there

00:46:06.900 isn't that well there's nothing that can

00:46:08.920 match that okay I got so listen there's

00:46:11.420 like Flex Wheeler yeah I don't care how

00:46:13.860 hard you work I don't care how many

00:46:16.260 things you take I don't care who you have

00:46:18.380 working I'm not gonna look like you're

00:46:19.620 never gonna look like Flex Wheeler yeah

00:46:21.340 ever yeah ever now Flex Wheeler was beat

00:46:24.920 by hard work there was guys that outworked

00:46:28.240 him you know but that wasn't because of you

00:46:31.780 know they were better than Flex that was

00:46:33.900 just because Flex let him let him get

00:46:36.160 him you know you mind educating our

00:46:38.260 audience on anabolic steroids is that

00:46:40.060 okay if we do that let's talk about that

00:46:41.620 okay so we've had people that have been

00:46:43.960 on and they've talked about you know

00:46:45.120 Dorian will talk openly he doesn't really

00:46:47.000 I mean Dorian literally could care less

00:46:48.840 what you're right we'll talk about he'll

00:46:50.000 talk about psychedelics he'll talk about

00:46:51.340 right I know you're just a whole different

00:46:53.100 type of guy when he talks about it but

00:46:55.100 for me you know when it comes on to this

00:46:57.980 topic I think most people are uneducated

00:47:00.520 on it most people don't know first thing

00:47:02.500 they hear about it they automatically

00:47:03.700 there's a red flag and and there's a

00:47:06.280 misunderstanding on it so when it comes

00:47:08.860 on to steroids when it comes on to

00:47:10.420 steroids how do you view anabolic steroids

00:47:14.620 yourself and then we'll go at topics of

00:47:16.480 what each one is and why some people use

00:47:18.280 right I think that steroids is one of

00:47:20.620 those things that gets well especially

00:47:22.900 now okay now it gets a bad rap because

00:47:25.240 of all the social media so the stuff

00:47:28.120 that's out there on social media is crazy

00:47:30.460 and I think that there is so much bad

00:47:33.880 information there's so much like

00:47:35.980 negative put toward it because of all

00:47:39.220 the craziness that goes with it right but

00:47:42.820 if you look at every sport I mean you you

00:47:45.100 know the Olympics is coming up and we're

00:47:46.480 going to see athlete after athlete after

00:47:48.520 athlete failed drug tests there's no

00:47:50.800 doubt and it's beneficial across the

00:47:54.040 board obviously or people wouldn't use it

00:47:56.560 now you know we're not talking about

00:47:58.480 swimmers dying we're not talking about

00:48:00.820 this because I think they use it in a

00:48:03.760 term just to benefit just to enhance just

00:48:07.420 to do those things and it's been around

00:48:10.060 for years so if you even if you look at

00:48:12.320 the back story you know Russia created

00:48:15.100 testosterone literally and basically for

00:48:19.780 the Olympics I mean it was literally

00:48:21.220 created for the Olympics that's what it

00:48:23.020 was then our scientist was like hey

00:48:25.780 listen Russia has testosterone what we

00:48:29.320 need something now but we need something

00:48:31.180 easier and faster so they created

00:48:33.880 diana ball so now our people had diana ball

00:48:37.720 and the original diana ball was very fast

00:48:39.760 it was an oral pill and you know the

00:48:41.780 athletes obviously used it and then all of a

00:48:43.780 sudden it was banned obviously but it was

00:48:46.600 a root that's I mean the whole basis if you

00:48:48.400 look back that far it was literally

00:48:51.160 created from the Olympics like that's

00:48:53.860 literally what it was researched for and

00:48:55.660 created so I think that when you look at

00:48:58.240 it bodybuilding is going to get a bad

00:49:00.340 rap because look we're you know when you

00:49:02.260 look at a swimmer a swimmer isn't 300

00:49:04.420 pounds right there is some baseball

00:49:06.340 players and football players but they

00:49:07.420 don't look like bodybuilders but when

00:49:09.700 you're talking about a muscle enhancing

00:49:11.680 drug and the sport is muscle bodybuilding

00:49:17.140 is for sure going to get the biggest rap

00:49:18.780 on it because they're going to be like

00:49:20.400 these guys are abusing it they're not

00:49:21.940 just taking it to enhance they're

00:49:24.380 they're abusing it and in reality there

00:49:27.320 probably is some people that are doing

00:49:28.560 that but I believe that the majority of

00:49:31.820 people that take it don't abuse it I think

00:49:34.960 that the majority of the people that are

00:49:36.740 on the pro level that are literally at you

00:49:40.380 know at the highest level of this sport are

00:49:43.020 all pretty damn close I don't think

00:49:45.560 they're doing anything more or less I

00:49:47.780 think they are all pretty damn close of

00:49:50.660 where they're at and very damn close of

00:49:52.640 where they're at yeah I mean and that

00:49:54.140 doesn't mean and that's not pointing the

00:49:57.500 finger at whoever they're working with

00:49:58.760 they could be in Kuwait they could be

00:50:00.800 training with somebody over here they

00:50:02.540 could be wherever I believe that nobody

00:50:06.020 is that far outside the thing I may be

00:50:08.840 wrong on that but I that's way I feel I

00:50:10.520 mean I hear I hear different things but

00:50:12.020 again I'm just trying to kind of get

00:50:13.680 educated on this with you here and by

00:50:15.840 the way for full disclosure you are not a

00:50:17.220 doctor I am absolutely not a doctor so

00:50:18.780 this is just something you've been around

00:50:20.640 and you've read about and you've

00:50:22.140 experienced with so okay so why would

00:50:25.200 somebody use these two drugs and obviously

00:50:27.780 you got clambutirol up here and you know

00:50:30.780 what the top one is LASIK so clambutirol is

00:50:32.880 basically a drug use for conditioning so

00:50:35.700 most people use that to get in shape so

00:50:38.760 it's used it has actually a relatively

00:50:42.300 long half-life so most people don't use

00:50:44.700 it for extended periods of time they

00:50:47.000 will use it for a little bit of time I

00:50:48.780 believe the half-life is 36 hours or

00:50:50.580 something which is in you know that type of

00:50:52.620 thing is actually relatively long so

00:50:55.020 they'll use it a couple days and usually go

00:50:57.000 off of it for a couple days but it's

00:50:58.500 basically to burn fat now LASIK is a

00:51:01.500 different one that's a loop diuretic and

00:51:03.420 it's not used obviously for contest prep

00:51:06.720 it's used at the end for basically

00:51:10.320 finishing the look on stage it's

00:51:13.080 probably in my opinion one of the least

00:51:16.800 used drugs in the sport because most

00:51:21.840 people don't realize that how dangerous

00:51:24.420 the product is because the drug was

00:51:26.040 actually named LASIK because it's

00:51:28.860 actually a six-hour diuretic but if you

00:51:31.560 look at it and you read it the half-life

00:51:34.200 is very short on it so most people who

00:51:36.600 have gotten in trouble back and when

00:51:38.700 you've seen guys who actually got in

00:51:40.380 trouble with it was from this drug they

00:51:43.000 got in trouble with it because they

00:51:44.460 would take it and two hours later like

00:51:47.760 they still were holding water so they

00:51:49.560 would take a little more of it and two

00:51:52.260 hours later they were still holding a

00:51:54.300 little water so they would take a little

00:51:55.860 more of it now they have literally 12

00:51:58.800 hours of H basically or more of LASIK

00:52:01.120 pulling pulling them down pulling them

00:52:03.220 down pulling them down and so because

00:52:05.800 of that I believe most people have went

00:52:07.600 away from LASIK just for the simple

00:52:09.580 fact that it's it's relatively dangerous

00:52:12.100 and it's relatively hard to predict on

00:52:16.240 what it's going to do it's not fast

00:52:18.040 enough to use and so because of that

00:52:20.680 which is a good thing I don't think

00:52:21.760 people are using it that much people are

00:52:23.860 not using it I don't think so now

00:52:25.000 clenbuter all the question that I got

00:52:26.620 for you is a lot of these things are not

00:52:28.120 necessarily for bodybuilding but

00:52:30.100 bodybuilders use a clenbuter all is an

00:52:31.540 asthma medication absolutely yeah they

00:52:34.300 use it that the I mean and they also

00:52:35.860 use it there's a product called

00:52:38.260 Ventilum which is also a clenbuter all

00:52:40.480 which is a gel pump that they actually

00:52:42.160 literally pump into cattle feed to to

00:52:46.060 like create bigger leaner cows various

00:52:50.140 so this is used for what bodybuilders use

00:52:53.320 or no what's they used it I mean LASIK's

00:52:55.220 has been around for years like I said

00:52:56.780 it's a loop diuretic I don't think it's

00:52:58.340 being used very much anymore because I

00:53:00.320 think the guys that literally got in

00:53:03.080 trouble with diuretics I think they got

00:53:04.640 in trouble with it from using LASIK's

00:53:06.680 because they didn't understand the

00:53:08.960 diuretic itself what's the side effect of

00:53:10.940 clenbuter any realistically no side

00:53:13.940 effects I mean there is obviously some

00:53:15.560 side effects but very very safe at low

00:53:17.960 dose is that is that similar to would

00:53:20.460 you put the the side effects of an

00:53:22.640 ephedrine compared to a clenbuter like

00:53:25.040 clenbuterol and the old like ephedrine

00:53:27.440 like the E back in the day

00:53:29.900 all that stuff yeah very very

00:53:32.060 similar very similar okay all right

00:53:33.800 sounds good not the same drug obviously

00:53:35.420 I know it's not absolutely it's not okay

00:53:37.280 so let's go through these now these are

00:53:38.460 obviously some of the famous ones that

00:53:39.680 you see and hear about all the time what

00:53:42.500 are they used for and what are the side

00:53:44.780 effects and benefits of each okay so

00:53:46.580 testosterone obviously everybody knows

00:53:48.020 that's you know sippinate there's sippinate

00:53:50.200 enanthate these are slow acting esters so

00:53:52.780 basically when you're talking

00:53:54.640 testosterone you're talking about

00:53:55.780 building up a baseline now bodybuilder

00:53:57.760 what they're looking at doing obviously

00:53:59.560 is creating a stable baseline so again

00:54:03.280 most people take testosterone because

00:54:05.200 they don't understand it so they just

00:54:06.220 keep taking taking taking taking taking

00:54:07.480 you have to realize how it comes in and

00:54:10.660 out of the system so realistically the

00:54:12.880 key is basically just hitting a baseline

00:54:15.200 and keeping it there because it's going to

00:54:17.440 be based off of the level of testosterone

00:54:19.360 within your body this is out in about 72

00:54:22.120 hours so from the time you take it to

00:54:24.940 the time it's out it's going to start

00:54:26.560 decreasing in about 72 hours so it

00:54:29.740 literally could be taken realistically

00:54:32.560 only twice a week and maintain a stable

00:54:35.920 testosterone level which is why most

00:54:38.800 people that are on like they're you know

00:54:41.680 like pro-hormone like 30 yes yes and and

00:54:45.020 stuff like that when they reach 50 and

00:54:47.000 those types of things will go to a slow

00:54:49.280 acting testosterone like siponate and

00:54:51.200 enanthate and at a very low dose you

00:54:53.540 know is very very safe and actually

00:54:56.360 probably not only safe but better for

00:54:58.400 you because as the natural males

00:55:00.680 testosterone drops the body actually

00:55:03.620 tries to counter that and literally then

00:55:06.260 everything else starts to go out of

00:55:07.820 balance but as long as your natural

00:55:09.560 testosterone level stays in line where it

00:55:12.940 normally is especially on a male that

00:55:15.580 you just function better at that point

00:55:17.200 so it's probably safer to have a normal

00:55:21.880 testosterone level normal level perfect

00:55:25.000 thousand and most athletes that have

00:55:27.820 been an athlete all their life function

00:55:30.520 somewhere like at that thousand range now

00:55:33.460 a non-athlete just somebody that's going

00:55:35.620 in there you know whose level probably

00:55:37.780 tested out at 200 will probably feel

00:55:39.880 amazing at 700 at 700 when you say

00:55:43.420 amazing what do you mean by me like

00:55:44.620 just revitalized like you know just

00:55:47.080 feel like you know normal again

00:55:49.120 normal normal okay how about the rest

00:55:50.860 tremolone acetate so that's a fast-acting

00:55:53.020 drug most people take that I say it's

00:55:56.200 actually kind of made a surgeon because

00:55:57.640 most people took that pre-contest it was

00:55:59.620 something that added hardness to the

00:56:01.240 muscle but it is something that it's

00:56:04.180 probably right now the most abused drug

00:56:06.460 in the sport this is that right there yes

00:56:08.380 because of what it does so it makes you

00:56:12.520 strong it makes you aggressive it it's

00:56:16.060 the one drug that's probably the single

00:56:18.620 most abused drug in the sport it cross

00:56:21.040 the board like it I don't care what

00:56:22.960 sport it is could be powerlifting it's

00:56:25.480 probably cross the board cross the

00:56:27.200 so you're saying professional athletes

00:56:28.420 are using this across the board without a

00:56:29.800 doubt and it's fast-acting so it's in and

00:56:31.480 out of the system relatively quick so you

00:56:33.640 can use it is a water-based or oil it's

00:56:35.920 oil-based okay yeah and that's that your

00:56:37.840 system very fast in and out of the

00:56:39.280 system so but it's also now there's other

00:56:41.980 ones so but this is acetate so that's a

00:56:44.260 faster-acting one but it's like I said

00:56:46.720 like it was originally there was a drug

00:56:49.060 called phenogect which is back in the

00:56:50.740 day which is very similar to it but this

00:56:53.440 product is was you know used you know

00:56:56.260 back in the day when people were doing

00:56:57.820 things like normal it was used you know

00:57:00.640 last eight weeks and now it's probably

00:57:03.460 used almost all year I guarantee you

00:57:07.180 there's guys that use it all year

00:57:08.260 guarantee what are the side effects of

00:57:10.400 this that would be anything like blood

00:57:12.880 pressure is gonna be a major issue with

00:57:14.260 trend that's gonna be you're gonna run

00:57:15.760 into liver and kidney issues with that

00:57:17.200 like that's gonna be a harsh drug could

00:57:19.120 that kill it I mean most steroids aren't

00:57:23.080 gonna like kill you like like an opiate would

00:57:26.080 kill you but there's no doubt that long-term

00:57:28.120 effect of that could be a way of your

00:57:30.940 kidney liver stomach it could eat away

00:57:33.400 everything like it could destroy your

00:57:35.320 body high at a high dose and that's the

00:57:37.180 problem with that like that drug is

00:57:40.360 probably more abused than any other drug

00:57:42.280 on the spin in in the sport and it's

00:57:44.740 it's abused at high levels because high

00:57:47.680 what do you mean by high like I mean well

00:57:49.480 for instance I would say that people

00:57:51.040 probably so 75 milligrams is what that

00:57:53.980 is I would say they took that three

00:57:58.000 times a week back in the day so back in

00:58:00.240 the back in the 80s or 90s back in the

00:58:02.080 90s so that would be you know what 225

00:58:05.820 I would say they're doing that every day

00:58:08.980 now 225 a day a day possibly you mean the

00:58:12.240 guys on stage I would say and actually

00:58:14.740 here's the thing that's probably more

00:58:16.300 amateurs than pros so the amateurs are

00:58:19.760 probably abusing all of this stuff way

00:58:21.980 beyond what the pros are because again the

00:58:24.340 pros have phenomenal genetics they have

00:58:26.180 people helping them like I can tell you

00:58:28.340 like I don't care how many people like

00:58:30.020 you can throw every nutritionist under

00:58:32.180 you know under the the bus there isn't

00:58:34.760 anybody gonna like prescribe this like

00:58:37.040 recommend this for you know high dosages

00:58:40.640 year-round like nobody but there are some

00:58:43.580 like gym guys out there that will be

00:58:45.860 because when you take that you feel

00:58:47.540 phenomenal so the more of that shit you

00:58:50.480 take the more you feel phenomenal you

00:58:52.880 start getting strong next thing you know

00:58:54.300 you're benching 500 pounds you're you

00:58:56.040 know you've gained 30 pounds your muscle

00:58:57.600 looks hard and you're like holy shit if

00:58:59.280 200 is good as this just think what a

00:59:01.320 thousand is on this and that's the

00:59:03.120 problem with a lot of the people think

00:59:05.100 how about how about the master on it's

00:59:07.020 like master on phenyproponate is you

00:59:09.840 know something that's taken the last five

00:59:11.340 weeks of the show so it's a hardening

00:59:12.900 drug mainly to add basically hardness to

00:59:15.720 the skin it's literally taken for no

00:59:18.840 more than five weeks no more than five

00:59:20.260 we know how different is that than

00:59:21.840 primobolin it's a similar drug than

00:59:24.640 primobolin there's two different kinds

00:59:27.120 of primobolin too so it would be the

00:59:29.400 effect of it would be very similar to

00:59:32.340 like the old parabolin or primobolin

00:59:36.220 acetate primobolin depo isn't is a

00:59:38.700 slower acting drug which some people do

00:59:41.040 take in pre-contest but most people use

00:59:44.280 that I don't even know if they it's even

00:59:45.660 made anymore but it's it's a little bit

00:59:48.240 different how about the deck I mean you

00:59:50.400 everybody for somebody that doesn't know

00:59:52.080 about stories then they've heard of

00:59:53.200 that like like the original right it's

00:59:55.860 like what Arnold and the boys used it's

00:59:57.900 probably it's it's something that I

01:00:00.600 actually don't like I'm not big on it a

01:00:03.480 lot of people like it because they think

01:00:04.680 it helps their joints think that makes

01:00:09.060 their joints feel I think the side

01:00:10.920 effects of that is it's not like harsh

01:00:13.440 side effects but it's a very slow acting

01:00:15.540 it literally just shuts the body down

01:00:18.000 like your sex drive literally drops to

01:00:19.680 nothing once you're off yeah which you're

01:00:21.540 on it like you're on it yes you got to

01:00:23.640 take so many different things just to

01:00:25.480 keep your body balanced back out like

01:00:27.220 deck it to me is like one of the worst

01:00:29.300 things it's a safe drug as far as like

01:00:31.480 side effects to the body but the way you

01:00:34.140 feel on it like most people that's ever

01:00:36.040 taken it will tell you instantly like I

01:00:38.520 hate the way I feel on it I hate the way

01:00:40.780 I feel absolutely yeah and I think

01:00:42.920 because of that and then and here we come

01:00:45.140 back to this so back in the day that's

01:00:48.440 what they would use they would take a

01:00:49.760 little bit of testosterone a little bit

01:00:51.140 of deck and if you talk to the old guys

01:00:52.580 that's what they'll tell you right they'll

01:00:53.900 tell you like even back in Arnold's day

01:00:55.340 that's what we took right now like they

01:00:58.220 don't go to that like they're like

01:00:59.720 listen I feel like shit on that but I can

01:01:01.980 take trend and feel crazy I'll stick with

01:01:05.480 the trend but it's it's a much harsher

01:01:08.180 harsher on your body we're being pretty

01:01:09.860 open here so no that's like we're like

01:01:12.080 laying it out there but that's it

01:01:13.620 ecu poise is actually very similar to

01:01:17.240 like decades so it's almost they're

01:01:20.660 different drugs but the makeup the the

01:01:22.580 way they respond in the body almost

01:01:23.960 identical I like that one though because

01:01:25.700 it doesn't have a lot of the like you

01:01:28.520 know sex side effects and type thing

01:01:30.260 like decreased you know that how would

01:01:32.780 how would steroids decrease sex you know

01:01:34.280 it will you be surprised so it just

01:01:35.720 literally lowers your libido it deserves

01:01:38.000 there's so many effects that it has like

01:01:39.920 on it but the ecu poise doesn't so

01:01:41.660 people will have a tendency to stay away

01:01:43.940 from deck and go to EQ but it's also a

01:01:46.340 slower acting drug so deck is really

01:01:48.680 slower acting and most people don't use

01:01:50.480 deca because it can be detected for so

01:01:53.780 long so that's why they stay away from

01:01:56.480 here we go so this is the next topic

01:01:58.160 HGH and insulin and insulin yep so this

01:02:01.820 is where the sport changed obviously from

01:02:03.500 like a certain point 96 90s and stuff

01:02:07.460 yeah and so the growth hormone had

01:02:10.160 always been around and I think people

01:02:11.480 were using it but what they didn't

01:02:12.560 realize is how the effect of the two

01:02:14.420 work together simultaneously and

01:02:16.880 basically the the insulin and it and the

01:02:20.720 insulin kind of had like when it first

01:02:22.400 came out I think they that people

01:02:24.260 overdid it you know honestly I do and I

01:02:27.080 think like you know me and even a couple

01:02:29.300 other you know people were kind of the

01:02:30.920 first ones that was like listen if you

01:02:32.360 take the insulin every single day it

01:02:34.820 stops working like literally and you

01:02:36.980 know there was people I was like

01:02:38.120 listen you know how long have you

01:02:39.440 taken that and they'd be like loud you

01:02:40.940 know I've been doing it now for three

01:02:42.620 months and I'm like how much are you

01:02:43.640 taking they're like 15 units a day I'm

01:02:45.860 like I'll tell you what take the 15

01:02:47.660 units and don't eat don't eat any carbs

01:02:50.000 like holy shit I'll crash and I'm like

01:02:51.140 I'm telling you you won't you won't

01:02:53.300 crash and they would call me back and

01:02:54.980 they're like holy shit like I took the

01:02:56.420 15 units I didn't crash I'm like

01:02:58.040 exactly because your body now is used to

01:02:59.960 it like your body is literally

01:03:01.400 limiting what the natural production is

01:03:04.400 and so I think a lot of people the

01:03:08.120 nutritionists like that knew what they

01:03:10.520 were doing literally kind of curtailed

01:03:13.940 that a little bit and took a lot of the

01:03:16.400 people away now I say that I've seen

01:03:18.980 like some like really crazy like

01:03:21.980 resurgence of insulin over the last like

01:03:24.900 six months so but up until this point it

01:03:27.680 has been very very limited it was used

01:03:30.020 very like once or twice a week it was

01:03:33.440 used maybe a couple times after training

01:03:35.300 you know a week or something like that

01:03:36.800 just to make sure that everything was

01:03:38.600 completely loaded completely you know

01:03:41.420 like the body was functioning at a

01:03:42.800 hundred percent but they weren't like

01:03:45.020 abusing it trying to force glycogen

01:03:47.400 non-stop basically trying to upload

01:03:50.060 everything they weren't but now there has

01:03:54.860 been a little bit of an like like the

01:03:57.060 protocols that are out there that seem to

01:03:58.880 be floating around bad right now they're

01:04:00.780 like really bad what's the biggest

01:04:02.060 difference between the side effects of

01:04:03.060 HGH and insulin versus steroids

01:04:05.060 anabolics the totally two separate you

01:04:09.260 know things I mean obviously steroids are

01:04:11.240 all based really based off of testosterone

01:04:13.640 and those types of things where growth

01:04:15.940 hormone is is basically you're based off

01:04:17.960 your growth hormone levels and and insulin

01:04:20.280 is obviously you know based off of

01:04:22.820 insulin levels so they all have a

01:04:24.500 different functioning purpose within the

01:04:26.600 body now obviously all three together are

01:04:29.540 a very powerful combination combination and

01:04:32.180 and realistically maybe one of the most

01:04:33.880 powerful ones is insulin is when you're

01:04:36.880 looking at you know the hormone make it

01:04:38.800 it could be the most powerful hormone

01:04:40.640 within the body but it doesn't do

01:04:44.080 legitimately what you think it's going to

01:04:46.600 do and I think a lot of people when they

01:04:49.540 first were was introduced to it they

01:04:51.400 thought like holy shit I'm gonna do all

01:04:53.080 these things and I'm gonna look like

01:04:54.460 Nasser Elson body or I'm gonna look like

01:04:56.620 and that's not gonna have no it's not

01:04:58.360 gonna happen like they can take insulin

01:04:59.860 all day long most most of the people that I

01:05:02.140 see that take high doses of insulin just

01:05:04.300 get fat just get fat they just get fat

01:05:06.760 yeah you hear about these your thoughts

01:05:10.420 on this so I hate this stuff like all of

01:05:13.480 the synthol and this stuff there are some

01:05:17.380 people I think most people hate it like I

01:05:19.420 can tell you it's the one thing that I

01:05:21.100 hate within the sport I can honestly say

01:05:25.600 like I've never ever like it you know like

01:05:29.620 encouraged an athlete of mine to take

01:05:31.480 it I've had two athletes of mine use it

01:05:35.320 and it was literally kind of against my

01:05:38.380 you know that I don't like it I think

01:05:41.260 that it is one of those things that we

01:05:43.960 literally have no idea what it is and

01:05:46.900 everybody's like you know it's you know

01:05:49.480 you put it in the muscle it stays in the

01:05:50.740 muscle there's no chance it could stay in

01:05:52.180 the muscle I don't care how much of it

01:05:53.860 you pump into the muscle there's no

01:05:55.900 chance it has to end up somewhere and

01:05:58.060 those places have to be brain lung heart

01:06:00.820 so a percentage of that has to come out

01:06:03.280 of the muscle it the way it basically like

01:06:06.340 hardens if it doesn't clear out of the

01:06:08.800 system it's going to end up there it's

01:06:10.420 going to end up almost like cholesterol

01:06:13.300 like so if you've seen an artery that is

01:06:15.580 filled with cholesterol my thinking is how is

01:06:18.760 this not binding to it how is this not

01:06:20.980 binding to cholesterol and a lot of

01:06:23.140 people think I'm nuts you know I know

01:06:24.520 Dave Palumbo is a big very you know like

01:06:27.280 he's very proactive on this and and but

01:06:30.100 he sells it also too and it's it's not

01:06:32.380 illegal in any way shape or form but I'm

01:06:35.080 just one of these guys that thinks that

01:06:37.600 it is not a positive for our sport this

01:06:40.180 kill you I think a hundred percent kill

01:06:42.160 you is there is there stories of it that

01:06:43.960 happening or no you know I mean in the

01:06:45.820 world of bodybuilder they're they're not

01:06:48.100 necessarily I mean there's a lot of

01:06:49.600 stories where people have had trouble

01:06:51.220 with it I know of a guy that literally

01:06:54.340 had open-heart surgery from Chicago that

01:06:56.740 took it and when they opened him up he

01:06:58.480 they literally had that shit everywhere

01:07:00.280 like it was everywhere so they're you

01:07:04.300 know why is it so popular people like is

01:07:06.340 it is it to to get it without doing the

01:07:08.260 work I mean even some of your guys that

01:07:09.760 did it they're well-known bodybuilders

01:07:11.140 they do some of sure there's a lot of

01:07:12.520 yeah and that's the thing I mean I think a

01:07:13.960 lot of people have done it I think a lot

01:07:15.880 of well-known people have done it Mr.

01:07:17.380 Olympia says they frown upon it but they

01:07:19.840 know some people are using it they don't

01:07:21.460 disqualify or do anything with it here's

01:07:22.780 the thing I think that the key is there

01:07:26.020 has been you know like there has been

01:07:28.360 some guys that have done it that you

01:07:31.660 either couldn't tell or at least it

01:07:33.160 looked really well they did it really

01:07:35.560 really well I think those are far and few

01:07:38.020 between okay I think that there's very few

01:07:40.000 guys that can do and last but not least

01:07:41.380 this is simple this is you obviously

01:07:43.300 know what this is so those are all like

01:07:45.400 estrogen blockers those are probably two

01:07:47.260 of the most common ones there's another

01:07:48.940 one that probably everybody uses which

01:07:50.260 is aromasin which is another one but

01:07:53.320 it's very expensive these are obviously

01:07:55.360 used because as you take more and more

01:07:57.700 testosterone your estrogen level will

01:07:59.740 then start to crank up obviously you

01:08:02.140 need a certain balance of estrogen with

01:08:05.880 you do need a certain you do so you don't

01:08:07.840 want to limit all of your estrogen within

01:08:09.660 the body but you want to keep it at

01:08:11.400 you know under control so what ends up

01:08:13.620 happening is the higher estrogen levels

01:08:15.480 you end up with and everybody's sort of

01:08:16.800 like the gyno and those types of things

01:08:18.660 so those are the extremes in the same

01:08:20.100 family right Novodex is the same in the

01:08:22.260 same family and Novodex is tricky

01:08:24.960 because Novodex you if you take that for

01:08:27.900 an extended period of time that will

01:08:29.220 actually decrease your estrogen they will

01:08:32.140 also decrease your growth hormone level so

01:08:34.320 you have to kind of counter some of those

01:08:36.660 things and two most people that take

01:08:39.000 estrogen blockers will take those for

01:08:40.680 short periods of time and Novodex

01:08:42.540 literally nobody takes it at least to my

01:08:44.700 knowledge for any longer than five weeks

01:08:46.260 nobody takes it for longer than five

01:08:47.720 weeks now okay and is that off coming

01:08:49.980 off a cycle like you're you're getting off

01:08:51.660 of it the it depends like they can use it

01:08:55.020 coming off a cycle but I think a lot of

01:08:56.520 people will use it like mid-cycle or you

01:08:59.580 know whatever even in the offseason just

01:09:01.380 to control estrogen levels because obviously

01:09:04.120 you know you don't want high estrogen

01:09:06.280 levels could create a lot of serious

01:09:07.740 issues with them within the body the

01:09:09.620 gyno is like the extreme but just even

01:09:12.220 like having a high level of estrogen

01:09:14.260 like you can tell like the way the skin

01:09:16.120 looks like yellow or well and just even

01:09:18.640 like how much water you hold I see what

01:09:20.460 you're saying stuff too so so let me ask

01:09:22.120 you this a somebody who has no desire to

01:09:25.000 compete they're not going to be a

01:09:26.920 bodybuilder they're just a 29 year old

01:09:29.320 guys watching this saying you know what I

01:09:31.460 I want to go use stuff there is different

01:09:34.520 conversations here about the usage of

01:09:36.440 steroids and then there is when you said

01:09:38.700 the guy about 45 55 you know he goes to

01:09:41.960 the doctor is low 180 or 120 what do I do

01:09:44.660 doctor says you may consider TRT right you

01:09:46.700 know something like that what is your

01:09:48.560 counsel you give to somebody that has

01:09:50.740 zero plans of being a professional

01:09:52.460 athlete using under 50 versus the person

01:09:56.080 above 50 so my here's my thinking so I

01:09:59.120 I tell everybody like obviously the

01:10:01.820 choice is yours like you're gonna have

01:10:03.080 to make the Detroit you know the

01:10:04.220 decision sure but if you have zero

01:10:06.260 interest zero interest in competing I

01:10:10.400 would think long and hard before using

01:10:13.160 anything so don't touch it no I don't

01:10:14.780 because my thinking is why are you gonna

01:10:16.700 take it like like now when you get into

01:10:19.280 that 40 range and your level is literally

01:10:21.380 coming down without a doubt like I think

01:10:24.020 that you're crazy not to take it because I

01:10:26.060 think that the benefit literally outweighs

01:10:29.160 the risk like with a hundred percent like

01:10:31.760 a hundred percent but the guy that's

01:10:34.220 wanting to just literally walk around and

01:10:36.260 look like a freak in a t-shirt for no

01:10:38.480 other reason than looking like a freak

01:10:40.640 there's a lot of stuff that's over the

01:10:42.560 counter that can literally benefit you

01:10:45.140 such as I mean there's a lot of pro

01:10:47.180 hormones and we don't even have like

01:10:48.620 great pro hormones anymore because most of

01:10:50.600 them are illegal but there's still like a lot

01:10:52.700 of you know I mean like there's some

01:10:54.500 stuff that pushes the envelope a little

01:10:56.300 bit that would that would benefit you

01:10:59.060 legally legally so yeah are you talking

01:11:01.340 like back in the days when now back in

01:11:02.900 the day the pro hormones then all of that

01:11:05.840 stuff like would be great you know and and

01:11:09.500 now there's still a few I know high tech

01:11:11.300 has a few I know Blackstone has a few and

01:11:13.800 they're legitimate like products that

01:11:16.280 literally work and like to me like if

01:11:20.540 you're not planning on competing if you

01:11:22.580 don't have a goal at the end like if

01:11:25.160 there's not a reason like why are you

01:11:27.440 doing it like it makes my number one

01:11:29.240 that's my number one if you're not

01:11:31.040 trying to compete if you're not trying

01:11:33.740 to you know go out there and do

01:11:35.540 something with it there's no reason to

01:11:37.520 do there's plenty of supplements to be

01:11:38.780 able to train with and I like what

01:11:40.100 Brandon Curry says first get the training

01:11:41.840 that get the diet absolutely and then

01:11:43.520 consider that we're talking about this

01:11:45.040 because of the the reason why you are

01:11:47.840 here after the response we got with Sean and

01:11:50.340 we're getting a little bit deeper on

01:11:51.300 this topic so now let's go to the last

01:11:53.040 part of what he said in the video where

01:11:56.460 he says you know this person's life for

01:11:58.680 you know that person is this person right

01:12:00.300 so obviously these are some names here

01:12:02.100 we'll go through them together you

01:12:03.180 obviously know who these are right

01:12:04.580 Munzer you know El Somebody Matarazzo

01:12:07.800 and then we have some other guys you

01:12:10.020 will get to here in a minute so you

01:12:11.640 know when you look at this what was the

01:12:13.140 cause of death with what was this

01:12:15.060 controlled by it or we don't know so

01:12:17.100 with Matarazzo and like one of my best

01:12:19.380 friends was best friends with him so

01:12:20.760 one of my best friends Mel Chansey was

01:12:23.040 very very good friends with him I've

01:12:24.420 heard nothing but good things about him

01:12:25.800 Matarazzo yeah phenomenal yeah one of the

01:12:28.020 greatest guys on this like phenomenal

01:12:30.540 personality like on just a phenomenal guy

01:12:34.680 phenomenal guy realistically I believe that

01:12:38.160 he was like hereditary like I think that

01:12:41.580 his father died at a relatively young age of

01:12:44.580 heart issues like can can you say like did

01:12:48.240 did the things that he did maybe escalated

01:12:51.000 possibly like possibly but I mean I don't

01:12:55.020 think that there was anything like he

01:12:56.940 wasn't like terminal because of bodybuilding I

01:13:00.420 think that there's no doubt like some of the

01:13:02.460 choices he made without a doubt could have you

01:13:05.040 know changed the the process but I think that I

01:13:08.800 think he died of cardiac arrest if I'm not

01:13:10.800 mistaken and I think it was a hereditary issue

01:13:14.180 else somebody because Sean put that on you

01:13:16.680 put that one on me right so here's the thing

01:13:18.240 with with Nasr so Nasr was probably one of my

01:13:22.260 best friends within the industry so he me and

01:13:24.400 him were together a lot I talked to him

01:13:26.460 probably more than any other bodybuilder ever

01:13:30.180 that I'd worked with so me and Nasr were very very

01:13:33.300 close my relationship was not with Nasr was very

01:13:36.720 unique because most of my guys I was a hundred

01:13:41.160 percent in control of a hundred percent in

01:13:43.560 control but Nasr was a little bit different so

01:13:46.440 if anybody that knew Nasr he was a very very

01:13:49.600 intelligent man spoke seven different

01:13:51.560 languages like he was a very smart human

01:13:54.220 being and so my role with him was literally

01:13:57.960 more advisory maybe I guess you'd say or

01:14:02.040 friend like you know whatever and so you

01:14:05.180 know literally the shows that I would work

01:14:07.280 with him I worked with him for yeah 97

01:14:10.180 Olympia 98 Olympia 99 Arnold okay so those

01:14:13.340 were the main shows that I worked with him

01:14:14.720 in and I didn't literally take over all of

01:14:18.680 his stuff until the last week so I would

01:14:20.180 control definitely all of his like final

01:14:22.940 prep stuff but the rest of the stuff was you

01:14:26.020 know at this point you know by the time he

01:14:27.800 got there like he was big like he was like I

01:14:30.300 didn't need to be like hey listen this is the

01:14:32.940 way you need to train or this is what you

01:14:35.800 need to do he would you know send me

01:14:38.580 pictures and be like how close am I and

01:14:40.260 I'm like dude you're behind like we need

01:14:41.760 to we need to drop the hammer like we need

01:14:43.740 to crank things up like that was where the

01:14:46.140 things were he would ask me like hey I'm

01:14:47.760 getting I'm thinking about adding this in

01:14:49.540 I'd be like yeah that's probably a good

01:14:51.120 idea or no that's you don't need that yet or

01:14:53.220 those types of things but there was never

01:14:56.220 like this is what you do right here this is

01:15:00.440 what you follow now the thing with Nasser

01:15:03.680 is like this is the thing that's

01:15:05.180 interesting about Nasser so again like he

01:15:08.420 literally puts that one on me right so but

01:15:11.360 literally I didn't train him after 99 and he

01:15:14.540 died 14 years later like I'm not really

01:15:18.980 sure how like okay I'm not even sure how you

01:15:22.220 even go down that road like it's so idiotic like I

01:15:27.140 mean like he could have lived 20 more years and

01:15:29.180 then you're like yeah that was still in

01:15:30.560 your life yeah months or obviously you

01:15:32.180 hadn't you never did it monster but it's

01:15:33.740 interesting I talked to Munster the year

01:15:36.620 he died and so he he was a very unique

01:15:41.600 individual he was a super nice guy didn't

01:15:43.580 speak really good English so it was like

01:15:45.680 tough to speak it was tough to to

01:15:47.480 communicate with him and we were you know

01:15:50.240 we were talking about some stuff and then

01:15:51.920 we were talking about a certain thing that

01:15:53.940 he was using and then he mentioned another

01:15:57.380 it was a cortisol blocker that he was talking about and and then he mentioned

01:16:01.340 another cortisol blocker it was it was a it was the weirdest conversation I'll

01:16:05.480 never forget it and I'm like I said you realize those are the same thing and he's

01:16:09.800 like no they're different and I'm like no I said this is the American version

01:16:13.760 this is a European version and he was double dip yeah and so he was double

01:16:17.720 dipping on those now those are notorious for eating up like your stuff

01:16:22.100 they're really hard on the stomach like even at a moderate to low dose and and he

01:16:26.940 was doing a humongous dose of it now I'm not saying that's what had anything to do

01:16:30.980 with it but the conversation that I had was very liked so weird because I

01:16:36.080 remember going up to Kim and being like man these guys don't even know what they're

01:16:39.560 doing like they were talking about this and like the same thing like what the

01:16:42.740 hell is going on and then literally we get home from the Arnold that year and

01:16:46.920 there and then he had died on the plane or at least coming you know over there

01:16:50.780 and he was like an anatomy chart like after your call well no I just

01:16:55.280 literally talked to him and it was a very brief like like it was at the show we

01:16:58.940 were talking about stuff and I mean he was actually commenting on Kim's

01:17:03.480 physique like he was like yeah he was like being like I'd never seen a you know a

01:17:07.160 female's quads that lean that are done we're like you gotta be kidding me like

01:17:09.740 look at your quads okay let's uh let's just go to uh let's go to Dallas Dallas

01:17:16.220 kind of so obviously that's the controversial one that you care about

01:17:19.100 what happened for sure so for sure there's a there's a the dialogue

01:17:22.280 between Dallas and Shawn when they go backstage you know that whole thing I've

01:17:25.340 been thrown right right and what's your relationship with Dallas because

01:17:29.540 that's the biggest one he puts on the biggest one right so here's the thing

01:17:32.540 with Dallas so I worked with Dallas for three months that was it I only worked with

01:17:36.680 him for one show I met with him in November at nationals and I prepped him

01:17:42.300 for the Arnold but I became very close with Dallas during that time and you know

01:17:46.820 Dallas was one of these guys that was just a likable like there's no way you

01:17:51.500 couldn't like Dallas like he was probably one of the most genuine nicest people I

01:17:56.560 had ever met in my life he was super honest about everything like there was so

01:18:02.180 many things that would like so I never literally second-guessed him about

01:18:06.640 anything because the things he told me like I would have like never dreamed that

01:18:11.520 he would have told me honestly like you know he told me you know things just from

01:18:15.380 way back way back and there was you know the thing that I probably one of the

01:18:20.560 toughest things for me is like when I when I think back through all the stuff

01:18:24.380 like there was signs right from the get-go like when we first literally the very

01:18:28.400 first week of the diet so we started we literally kind of started like the

01:18:31.460 beginning of December and so we had talked in nationals which is the middle

01:18:35.220 of November and then we started in December so I only literally worked with

01:18:38.420 him for three months he worked with another guy for two years before that and

01:18:42.980 another guy before that and then the guy two years before me ended up working

01:18:46.040 with when he died but the very first week like he calls me is like listen I'm

01:18:51.180 throwing up and I'm like like well that's not I said are you you feel okay and he's

01:18:55.640 like yeah he goes you know I do that a lot he goes I've done it all my life I

01:18:58.400 got like a weird stomach but he's like I didn't know whether I should like

01:19:01.340 replace the meal or not and so I'm thinking like wait a minute like what

01:19:05.660 do you mean you did that your whole life and he's like well I've thrown up my

01:19:08.240 whole life like I had a weird stomach like I literally throw up like I threw up

01:19:12.500 before every football game I've thrown up like before every contest like every

01:19:16.280 contest diet I've ever had I threw up so I'm like I said listen like don't you

01:19:23.000 let's just see how this plays out because you may be sick like you may have

01:19:25.700 the stomach flu or something so the week goes on and he seems fine and then

01:19:29.420 Thursday throws up again so I'm like okay listen this ain't normal like you

01:19:33.860 don't just throw up you're like literally 25 years old or something I'm

01:19:36.620 like go to the like urgent care like I want you to go to urgent care like you're

01:19:42.860 throwing up now this is a week two weeks into your relationship 90 days this is a

01:19:46.880 week into the relationship right and so he comes back and he's like yeah they

01:19:52.160 think that I may have bronchitis and the drainage is like coming you know drown

01:19:57.680 this man it's making me throw up and I'm like well how do you feel and he goes I

01:20:01.460 feel great but he goes listen I get bronchitis all the time he goes I've had

01:20:04.400 pneumonia ten times in my life and I'm like what I go you've had pneumonia ten

01:20:10.340 times in your life he's like yeah he goes I oh I literally like always get it and

01:20:14.360 he kind of blamed it like like and he was very open about this I have no problem

01:20:17.720 talking but he's like yeah I smoke weeds from the time I was 12 years old he goes I

01:20:20.820 probably smoke more weed than anybody he goes I kind of cough and I have

01:20:23.620 drainage and that's kind of what it kind of leads to and I'm like okay I

01:20:27.720 mean it sounded pneumonia from weed no but if he was saying he gets pneumonia

01:20:31.620 and I was trying to say the coughing so the coughing the drainage I mean it's

01:20:35.600 like you know he's like a restricted breathing and then he ends up with like

01:20:38.580 bronchitis and then pneumonia and so I'm kind of thinking like yeah you know I

01:20:42.600 get the coughing like the pneumonia thing sounds a little weird like I don't

01:20:46.100 know let's see how you feel I said you want to rest for a couple days let's see how you

01:20:49.740 feel weekend goes by feels fine a couple weeks go by is back throwing up again

01:20:53.460 and I'm like dude this is not normal like you shouldn't be throwing up and he's

01:20:58.980 like Chad I'm telling you I throw up all the time like I literally that I've done

01:21:05.640 it my entire life and that's the one thing thinking back like I'm like you know

01:21:12.420 like where where was that head like how in the hell like where was that head you

01:21:16.200 know and so we go through the process like through the whole process I can tell

01:21:20.520 like something's off like his body is not really responding like I thought it

01:21:24.840 would it didn't you know and then and like I don't know if people even believe

01:21:31.260 this but like based off of what he had been doing we literally did half of that

01:21:36.360 what he had been doing so a lot of this stuff so I'm saying you're doing half of

01:21:40.860 what he was doing half of what he was doing so my thinking was like holy shit

01:21:45.000 like maybe like his body's not responding well like maybe it's not

01:21:49.320 because we pulled back so far right but then all of a sudden his body kind of

01:21:55.560 started to come around and everything started look halfway decent so we just

01:21:59.820 you know and then he actually kind of started feeling better everything kind of

01:22:03.600 seems like right on target we go and we're literally planning on going into

01:22:08.700 Pittsburgh to meet with Mannion let him look at him take a look at him posing

01:22:12.900 just critique posing all these little things we're sitting there and he starts

01:22:18.300 throwing up again like with the stuff and so I'm like okay like dude like how like

01:22:24.780 this is not normal you shouldn't be vomiting all the time and he's like Chad

01:22:30.480 listen like this is just my life like this is what I do like I vomit I have a

01:22:35.580 weak stomach like I this goes all the way back to football like it goes all the

01:22:39.900 way back to football and so I'm like okay so we go through the process through

01:22:44.760 this whole process I can tell like something's clearly off his body didn't

01:22:49.500 respond well like nothing's really responding well so and so we start

01:22:54.240 talking and we start talking about like just personal things like you know and so

01:22:58.800 he had moved away from his hometown he went to Boca to be part of the

01:23:02.980 company that he was with and everything and so we literally and this is after

01:23:06.820 the Arnold so he ends up second you know he goes to New Zealand which I

01:23:09.940 literally didn't even want him to go to because I thought he was sick in at the

01:23:14.440 Arnold like he was like hocking up shit like I literally said listen don't go but

01:23:19.420 he had already like signed contracts like he was already committed he's like I

01:23:22.960 have to go I already signed a contract and I'm like listen just go to the doctor

01:23:27.200 and you know get it he's like nah I'm gonna go so we so we go there and then and then of

01:23:32.080 course he's super sick in Australia almost passes out on stage like we

01:23:36.040 literally like literally two hours before that we were literally talking on

01:23:40.300 the phone I'm like don't do the show like I don't want you to do the show and

01:23:43.240 he's like I'm gonna take a nap and we'll see how I feel two hours later calls me

01:23:47.920 back man I feel phenomenal I feel great you know and I'm like are you sure and

01:23:51.640 he's like I feel phenomenal like I just needed a nap I think it was a flight wore me

01:23:55.360 out then of course he goes on stage damn near passes out so then he you know he

01:23:59.860 comes back home and so through this whole process I'm like listen something's

01:24:04.120 off like I think that you're unhappy like listen I don't think that I think you left

01:24:11.140 your home I think you moved to Boca you don't know people there you're in a

01:24:14.980 you're staying in an apartment by yourself like like you're doing all this stuff

01:24:19.300 that's like not making you happy like it's not making you happy I'm like you

01:24:24.220 need to get out of there get completely out of there go back home and at the time he didn't have a good

01:24:29.700 relationship with his family but he was trying to mend that and I go go back home

01:24:34.860 like you know create this bond with your family that you're trying to do do do all

01:24:39.300 of these types of things and I said I said I said we don't even need to work

01:24:44.820 together I said go back home and his coach was in his hometown I go go back

01:24:50.220 with him I said because I think that friendship stabilized you like I think it

01:24:55.800 stabilized you I think you were happier within that environment I think a lot

01:25:00.960 of your friends and and Jim people were there and he was like you know like

01:25:06.600 that's I think that's what I'm gonna do and so that's where we kind of left

01:25:11.520 things like we kind of left things me looking back on that now I'm like was

01:25:15.960 that the right decision like was like was me just kind of saying go back home

01:25:22.300 like go into that thing because it was literally right after that that they

01:25:27.300 started posting up pictures and I could tell instantly something was wrong like

01:25:32.140 instantly and then I became like in this like tug-of-war with myself like okay do I

01:25:37.920 call up him and say dude what the hell are you guys doing like something looks off

01:25:44.680 here and then like am I butting in on this because I'm not working anymore I'm not

01:25:50.740 the coach and like it's kind of an un you know like written rule like you

01:25:54.300 don't interfere with other people's stuff but I felt like man something's off

01:25:58.360 like I knew it and then the last picture he posted I'll never forget this Dan

01:26:02.440 Solomon called me and he's like have you seen the picture of Dallas and I'm like

01:26:05.080 I'm like I have I said he doesn't look good and and I said he literally looks

01:26:10.480 like he's getting ready to drop dead I said and and Dan Solomon says I dude I

01:26:15.400 just saw him and he looks like he's walking death and I said that's what he looks like in

01:26:20.720 the picture I said he's gray I said his skin looks funky like he's in the

01:26:25.400 hospital he said no no no he just they're just posting up progress pictures

01:26:28.720 online and and I'm like I said he doesn't look good like like he just

01:26:34.120 looked unhealthy and two days later he died like and that's the story like you

01:26:40.680 know I didn't you know like I wasn't training him during the time I trained him

01:26:44.540 for three months I didn't training for the next four months or whatever from the

01:26:48.960 time he died I have no idea what they did I have no idea what he was doing it's

01:26:53.340 an unfortunate story because he uh you know you again in stories like this you

01:26:58.260 get a lot of different versions of it on what happens but he was a guy that was a

01:27:02.580 liked guy that was coming up the most liked guy yeah that's that's like I'm

01:27:06.280 telling you like he was if not the most liked guy like I mean I'm telling you like

01:27:10.800 you were never gonna find anybody that had anything negative to say let me ask you

01:27:15.640 about it there's a there's an article online that says the supposed Dallas

01:27:20.800 McCarver anabolic cycle from Chad Nichols right and all of the stuff here that it's

01:27:24.700 got you know I mean the list is it's not I tell you first of all that's not I can

01:27:29.880 tell you I've already seen it I it was sent to me I can tell you exactly what it

01:27:32.920 is if you want me to tell you yeah absolutely this is not his cycle this is a

01:27:38.440 drug list that him and his coach ordered that's the list they ordered that's it

01:27:44.080 that's a drug list that's a drug order list but that's not you this has nothing to do

01:27:49.540 with okay so I can tell you that with this is pre you or this is after me I believe this

01:27:54.380 is either pre me or after me but this has nothing to do with me and Dallas at all like

01:28:01.460 yeah that's something that's a lot of ridiculous amount but this supposedly what I was told is a

01:28:07.020 shopping list for him and one other person that's what I was told and I was told that

01:28:13.420 from the literally the person they ordered it from so it's a legitimate like like it's a legitimate

01:28:19.580 guy that told me so it's a legitimate guy that told you but this has got this part has nothing to do

01:28:26.720 with you ordering with them this ain't got anything to do okay like this literally like I can tell you

01:28:31.040 by like there's so much stuff on this because I believe this is the one because I've seen two

01:28:34.820 but this is the one with EPO on it yeah and it's it's weird because that drug right there

01:28:40.520 um I can promise you like he didn't use with me but he asked me about that drug and it's weird

01:28:47.820 because I didn't even think anything about it but we were at the Arnold and he said listen we're just

01:28:54.460 bullshitting and he goes listen he goes I've heard people use EPO and I'm like yeah I go listen

01:29:01.140 I I know of maybe three people that could have benefited or it has benefited from EPO

01:29:06.360 I said very few people because it's a drug that literally like endurance people use right

01:29:12.240 doesn't really play a factor with bodybuilders there are some very rare rare instances that possibly

01:29:20.900 and he's like and then he asked me this question I'll never forget this and uh and this was before

01:29:26.080 I've ever seen this list he asked me well how long do they stay on that and I'm like

01:29:30.220 five weeks max and he's like really he goes have you ever heard of anybody staying on longer than

01:29:35.600 that and I'm like um yes cyclists like cyclists he goes bodybuilders and I'm like no and he goes

01:29:41.080 so nobody like six months a year and I'm like I go that would be I go dude I don't he's asking

01:29:46.980 he's asking me that question and I said no I said that would be friggin idiotic like I said

01:29:52.560 you get a sense that he asked you because he had done for six months so I didn't have any idea I

01:29:56.880 didn't have any idea what he was asking me but then when I saw this then I saw the EPO on it and

01:30:04.560 that's when I was like holy shit like what was he asking about like and then it was and then I had

01:30:11.000 already seen this list and it wasn't until after the list um that somebody told me like well you know

01:30:19.460 what that list is that's a that's an order list you know and if you know anybody involved with this

01:30:26.380 list there's a couple things on the list that points right to who the list is so who it came

01:30:31.840 from yes okay and your world would know who that is my world would 100% know who that is and they

01:30:38.060 would 100% know that has nothing to do with me okay so so let me let me ask you this the reason

01:30:42.640 why I'm going in this direction is the following is uh I'm a fan of the sport at this point of the game

01:30:48.260 you know I'm a fan of the sport I showed you a picture earlier what I looked like when I was 20

01:30:51.640 years old I wanted which was amazing by the way I mean I was crazy yeah I wanted to go in the world

01:30:55.580 in the direction of being a body with and in one minute I'm like no I'm leaving it so with the

01:31:01.180 current state of where Mr. Olympia is with no Joe Weider there's not a Weider right there's not somebody

01:31:06.920 that's selling it pitching it's you know from the top and with the current social media conditions

01:31:12.540 where something like this wouldn't be around 1994 someone's not going to write an article like this

01:31:17.100 and say hey look what you right someone's not going to be online saying hey Chad hey

01:31:20.300 that's not the world we're in today not today 25 years ago right so today where everybody is quick

01:31:27.500 to jump and say I can't believe what happened there what do you foresee taking place with the

01:31:32.220 future of Mr. Olympia today in bodybuilding and what do you think needs to happen for it to become

01:31:36.980 mainstream rather than a niche small community sport of don't bring too much attention a little bit

01:31:42.780 it's good we can make money but let's not bring a lot of attention to it um I think the direction

01:31:47.160 that we're headed right now is positive like literally positive and there's a couple things

01:31:52.440 like the the direction that the Olympia went last year now people are going to rip the shit out of

01:31:57.820 the Olympia last year because there wasn't a like a defending champ there wasn't big names in it and so

01:32:03.540 you know I I honestly feel sorry for Brandon Curry a little bit because you know he was in a no-win

01:32:09.000 situation like him Boanac Hottie like listen any three of those guys could have won and they all

01:32:16.140 three are going to go through what kind of Brandon is going through a little bit right now and they're

01:32:21.160 all going to be like well of course he won because he didn't beat anyone there was nobody in it

01:32:24.780 Boanac wins he goes through the same thing like they all do it but at the end of the day Brandon

01:32:28.780 Curry earned the right to be Mr. Olympia he he showed up he battled like I personally don't think

01:32:34.040 he should have won like I I thought Hottie should have won like because I was so he was third I

01:32:39.420 loved Hottie's physique because I'm a guy that's big on conditioning I like conditioning um I like

01:32:45.680 I thought to me like when you look at structure muscularity and conditioning in comparison to all

01:32:52.560 three I thought Hattie Hattie had more of of that but I also could see how Boanac could have won

01:32:58.840 and I can 100% see how Curry did win so I thought it was that close I thought it was literally there

01:33:05.780 just wasn't that one guy that just was like oh shit this guy it's over type of thing so that being

01:33:12.920 said but the direction that the Olympia has gone turning over to Dan Solomon who everybody knows a

01:33:19.360 good friend of mine but I know the direction he wants to take things and if you look at all the

01:33:24.100 stuff that he's doing right now um he's brought Shaq on board and they're doing a lot of promotional

01:33:29.040 stuff and they're doing a lot of things you're going to see big names in the show this year so

01:33:33.100 there it's going to have heavy hitters in this you're talking about Flex Lewis or who are you

01:33:36.800 talking about you got Flex Lewis in it right we know that big Ramy's probably going to be there we

01:33:42.040 who knows if Phil's going to be there but like it's going to there's going to be some major major

01:33:46.800 guys in this lineup so whoever wins this it's going to be a legitimate win so that's that's a

01:33:53.200 foregone conclusion but the part that can take us into the next level is Athleticon it can benefit

01:34:02.440 across the board now everybody's trying to act like oh Athleticon is going to hurt the Olympia

01:34:07.840 I completely disagree I think Athleticon is going to benefit the Olympia because anything that has the

01:34:15.700 rock involved in it and he has embraced this industry he is a bodybuilding fan he is a tree he

01:34:24.200 trains he lives this type of sport and he is bringing a different level of you know like everything that

01:34:33.760 he can do nobody's been able to do like listen the what he could do for this sport there literally

01:34:39.760 hasn't been like Joe Weider and and the things that they've done like you nobody will do what they

01:34:44.940 did again because it was just a different time like that for me was like the golden era because

01:34:50.000 like he knew all the athletes and and he was it was like a family like it was a little bit different

01:34:55.580 but it was a little bit of a cult type you know thing it wasn't mainstream even though they wanted it

01:35:01.180 in the Olympics it probably was just never going to get there the rock can make it in mainstream he can

01:35:08.520 put it out there and say look at what these guys do look at the hard work they do can he take can

01:35:15.180 it take attention away from Mr. Olympia or no I mean I don't think so I mean I think that the Mr.

01:35:20.440 Olympia is the Mr. Olympia and I think that what I think Athleticon Athleticon could be huge I think it

01:35:26.680 could be monstrous to the point where they can buy 51 percent of Astro Olympia or no well I mean

01:35:31.640 possibly but I think that I think the key really isn't so much overshadowing the Olympia I think

01:35:37.820 what the key is how much attention and how big Athleticon could be draws that much more you know

01:35:44.660 to the Olympia in my opinion I well I mean listen what's going to be interesting to see what happens

01:35:50.380 because for me again it goes back to the conversation with uh what Dana White did to UFC okay

01:35:56.460 and Dana White build that Joe Weider cult cult like type of an environment with UFC where

01:36:01.800 people like me who were you know all boxing and you know following boxers to all of us and say you

01:36:07.320 know what I don't even trust any of the judging over here I'm going to go watch you see so I got

01:36:10.580 you so I hope I hope you're right and I hope that does take place but I also hope uh uh I also hope

01:36:18.300 that somehow some way the relationship with somebody like a Danny or a Rock gets deeper in

01:36:24.980 to to develop and promote the next bodybuilders and take them to the next level with the context

01:36:31.320 that they have that's the only thing I go with it uh uh Dan uh seems like a really nice guy when

01:36:35.820 you you know super guy yeah that's like a really nice guy sincere guy that wants to do the right

01:36:39.720 thing uh uh you know sometimes organization some companies are missing one or two pieces but the

01:36:44.760 other question I was going to ask you with this part was we just talked about the Dallas we just

01:36:48.440 talked about some of these stories right what what do you think needs to be do you think

01:36:52.260 the bodybuilding world has a black eye because kidney kidney kidney you know young you know

01:36:57.440 don long all do you think bodybuilding has a black eye of uh uh the amount of people that have died or

01:37:04.420 have had issues there and if yes what do you think needs to happen for it maybe going to a different

01:37:09.940 direction the thing is when you look at the number of people that have had issues you know um it's pretty

01:37:16.280 small like when you when you look at it and like I said you know even with the flex thing like the flex

01:37:20.900 thing was that even the Don Long so I mean that was one of the guys that that Sean Ray brought up

01:37:24.960 again he's 100 aware of what what the deal is with Don Long like if you if you google Don Long you will

01:37:31.220 find out that Don Long was born with one kidney one functioning kidney he didn't find out about it

01:37:35.900 until 1999 so you know and again like did bodybuilding like escalate the problem 100 it escalated the problem

01:37:44.720 if he would have picked to be a golfer would he have needed a you know a kidney transplant so those

01:37:48.580 things are all out there I think that the biggest issue is that just like this list like this is

01:37:56.720 what is being pushed out there because this is shock value like and I think you know it's not so much

01:38:02.760 like look there was the death Momo died from diuretics and we know that he died from diuretics and like

01:38:08.140 you know there's there are those cases that happened at shows like there are like but they're far and few

01:38:14.960 between um and in reality most of those are like all related to something else like the the Momo stories

01:38:23.100 are very limited and but I think this stuff because you have a lot of young people right now that are

01:38:30.720 on the internet and they're like like trolling the sport you know realistically yeah and because what I

01:38:38.560 gotta be honest like when I first seen this list I'm like it's a fake list like no there's no chance

01:38:43.820 that's the real list like it's a fake list you like you know and then you know when when like I

01:38:49.880 was talking to somebody and they're like it's actually not a list it's a shopping list and I'm

01:38:55.560 like okay like I get it now and it's not for one person it was for two people and you know so I'm

01:39:03.200 like okay I got that now and so those are the things that are out there but this list being pushed

01:39:09.240 around by 16 year olds and 18 year olds and 19 year olds and all of these kids and then these

01:39:15.500 kids talking about this and these kids just like the side enhancement so you see all of these like

01:39:20.620 crazy guys that have just injected like ridiculous amounts of shit in their arms and they look

01:39:26.920 like a sideshow freak show but where are they they're on generation iron they're on all the

01:39:35.040 platforms they're being talked about on all the podcasts like most people are making fun of them

01:39:41.580 it's the ugliest thing it's the dumbest looking thing ever but they're literally there like they're

01:39:47.280 there and when those are the things that are out there and people pull up bodybuilding and bam there

01:39:53.000 that is the general public looks at that and is like what in the hell they don't see the story of

01:39:58.800 Brandon Curry flying literally home with the sandow and going directly to a school and talking to kids

01:40:05.340 like you don't see that very often you see this freak who has pumped a ton of shit in his arm for

01:40:11.040 no reason whatsoever and that's the stuff because that's what gets shock value why doesn't mr. Olympia

01:40:18.060 develop better content with their YouTube channel and start pumping stuff out there and start really

01:40:23.100 putting stuff in our faces so we see these types of stories exactly again that also goes back to the

01:40:27.660 marketing aspect exactly you tell the story and I and it was a part of conversation that we had

01:40:31.800 by the way I'm by the way I am assuming you have spoken to Dan about about being on value attainment

01:40:39.360 I'm assuming I actually haven't so he doesn't know you're gonna be here today absolutely not okay

01:40:43.320 no no clue he's gonna enjoy this yeah so he has no idea when Sean was here Sean was fully uh uh you

01:40:50.460 know he sounded like he was all team you know uh the way he came right prepared to you know shots fired and

01:40:57.060 all right he seemed really prepared for the whole thing but you know again my interest I'm interested

01:41:01.800 in the sport I mean you see who's in my right there's a reason why that's there I'm interested

01:41:06.560 in the sport I think there's a and in me but if you look at what Dan has done like Dan has you know

01:41:11.620 he had Mark Wahlberg at the you know Olympia this year and he's immediately you know teamed with Shaq who

01:41:18.420 I think is you know one of the most visible personalities you know out there no question and so those things

01:41:24.400 you know are are huge steps in the right direction credit to that but I also agree that

01:41:30.860 you can only do so much there and

01:41:34.940 the only person that really has the ability to pull the strings to that next level

01:41:41.900 is Danny and the Rock and they have the ability

01:41:45.500 ability to I think take athletes to put them in front of people that you could never get in front

01:41:52.360 and that's what it's going to take it's going to take somebody whoever if it's Phil Heath or whoever

01:41:58.160 it is um to win potentially Athleticon and to be put out there in front of people that would never see

01:42:06.640 him and when he's sitting next to Danny Garcia and the Rock and they're talking about Athleticon and

01:42:15.560 all of the you know physical fitness and stuff all of the nonsense then is eliminated all these freaks

01:42:21.540 that are doing the idiotic stuff is eliminated and it's more of a positive and that's where

01:42:27.480 everybody needs to go I mean I hope it happens I hope it happens I think it benefits the entire

01:42:32.080 sport if it does happen I get asked if Pat do you want to buy Mr. Olympia I don't have the time to buy

01:42:37.180 I want a financial firm I don't have an interest in wanting to buy the company today I'm in a

01:42:41.500 different state my life but I wouldn't mind seeing somebody like them taking it now let me ask you this

01:42:46.560 2020 Mr. Olympia what does it look like with Phil Heath what does it look like without Phil Heath

01:42:51.240 comes back what happens what would the excitement with the people in your opinion now you're more

01:42:56.740 team Solomon you're not really team Phil Heath so for full disclaimer but right but I like Phil

01:43:01.080 though so don't get me wrong like it's funny like I didn't used to really like him that much I was

01:43:04.420 actually like when he first came on I was like ah he's narrow and he's this and that and he proved

01:43:08.620 me wrong like you know like he I felt like he had weaknesses and then he progressed as a bodybuilder

01:43:15.280 and you know I like the fact that he did that you know and I mean he'll be the first to tell you

01:43:20.960 like listen like Chad would call me out like listen when I look good Chad told me I look good when I

01:43:24.960 look bad Chad told me I look bad um and so I'm very pro Phil when Phil is a hundred percent like

01:43:31.620 absolutely if Phil is in the show it is a better show like it is a better without a doubt like a

01:43:38.940 hundred percent okay you know I just you know I think that that's the key like do we see Phil

01:43:43.580 at the Olympia I think we're going to see Phil this year a hundred percent you think you're going

01:43:47.420 to see him a hundred percent I think we are going to see him I just don't know if we're going to see

01:43:50.260 him at the Olympia I agree with you I that's right Athleticon I totally yes I totally agree

01:43:55.100 and and there's been some uh you know there's going to be some uh very interesting announcements

01:44:00.160 being made here pretty soon but you know I just hope it's not going to be one of those things

01:44:04.860 because you know how sometimes like imagine if I am right now you know how you said if I had it

01:44:10.120 my way I would have done whatever I could to help the other candidates to help beat Sean Ray because

01:44:13.880 I wanted to you know exactly so you know so so maybe if Mr. Olympia is a little bit pissed off

01:44:19.040 with Phil before the way he's kind of been with Sean Ray maybe Phil is kind of like dude if I come

01:44:22.940 back they're pumping up Flex Lewis to kind of subtly give him the Mr. and they'll give me number two

01:44:27.200 why would I put my body through this those are some of the things he's got to be concerned about

01:44:30.440 because there's a lot of politics there is a lot of politics and I mean those are things here's the

01:44:34.360 thing like and I know that's a big topic right now because Flex Lewis gets an invite and like

01:44:38.880 they're pumping Flex Lewis right now big time yeah it is big time and and here's the thing that's

01:44:44.540 tough about that like I get the aspect of he's a 212 champion and I believe 100% he deserves an

01:44:53.300 invite because the Olympia champions literally carry over full-time so he literally deserves what

01:44:59.260 he's getting no but nobody and he's got a beautiful but here's the problem here's the problem you have

01:45:04.540 you have guys literally getting ready for the Arnold right now you have Brandon Curry who's the reigning

01:45:09.000 Mr. Olympia and the last thing they want to do is prep for a show with even an inkling of doubt

01:45:17.700 like and I know exactly what that's like because my wife prepped for the Olympia who's who's who's

01:45:23.020 without who you're talking about so like Brandon yeah like so Brandon Curry like you know listen you

01:45:28.940 so here's Flex being pumped pumped now I have a feeling when we get closer to the Olympia that's

01:45:33.580 I have a feeling they're pumping Flex right now because they just invited him and so I think

01:45:37.360 everybody a little bit yeah I think I think a little bit everybody's jumping the gun and I

01:45:41.240 think when it comes right down to it I think so I think we're gonna have a dominant winner at the

01:45:45.680 Arnold and I think that guy's gonna be a major force and I think that we're going to have Brandon

01:45:50.320 Curry coming back as like really trying to prove himself because let's get real I mean he took a lot

01:45:55.460 of shit this year because he didn't beat anybody so he's now trying to prove himself you know Flex

01:45:59.440 Lewis you know going in who who has all this hype and he's trying to prove himself and I think that you

01:46:04.940 have a situation and who knows what's gonna happen with Roden like if Roden's court case is over and

01:46:09.540 he's you know basically you know basically cleared of all charges I believe that he will be I think he

01:46:15.460 will be in and so we could potentially see four or five really good bodybuilders battle it out on stage

01:46:22.780 I still don't think it's going to include Phil Heath but the the ultimate goal you don't think Phil's

01:46:28.600 going to hit the stage this year I think he's going to hit Athleticon okay without a doubt but at the end

01:46:32.900 of the day I still think we could benefit because the ultimate goal potentially would be whoever wins

01:46:38.540 the Olympia goes to Athleticon now I think obviously if mr. Olympia then beat you really

01:46:46.700 scary it is what you just said it's scary because without a doubt then that means that let it come

01:46:51.440 becomes the not necessarily just think if Phil he's like my pastor Olympia we'll just think if just

01:46:56.520 think if let's say that Phil Heath bypasses the I'm just gonna throw this out here yeah so let's say

01:47:02.600 Phil bypasses the Olympia and goes to Athleticon yeah and let's say that big Ram he comes in and wins

01:47:08.840 the Olympia okay and decides he's gonna go to Athleticon and then he beats Phil at Athleticon

01:47:15.620 he just proved that the mr. Olympia is still by far the top thing now the flip side of that is if if he

01:47:23.760 wins the Olympia and goes and gets beat by Phil then it becomes a different story you scare your part

01:47:29.100 here's the scary part say Phil goes and competes at Athleticon he wins he gets a contract with

01:47:35.940 Under Armour he gets a contract in the movies he makes nine million dollars Rami then goes and wins

01:47:41.640 the next year he gets a four and a half million dollar contract then there's a massive exodus and and and you

01:47:47.760 have to understand capitalism works no I get that I understand I had a guy of mine I'm sitting down he's

01:47:52.680 talking to me he says to me Pat I'm telling you I got the safest business there's no one that's

01:47:59.220 going to put me out of business I said Andy Grove the legendary CEO of Intel in the 80s wrote a book

01:48:04.920 called only the paranoid survive and it wouldn't be the smartest thing for Mr. Olympia to not be

01:48:10.020 paranoid it wouldn't be just my absolute I agree and again I could be wrong but I got to tell you

01:48:13.860 like if that scenario played out it would be the absolute greatest thing for the athlete I agree

01:48:20.340 it'll be unbelievable agree you know Phil Heath make an X amount a million whoever the next person

01:48:26.040 is it would be the greatest thing because in my opinion what it would do is it would light a fire

01:48:31.860 hopefully under some of these guys and go holy shit look what Phil just did because right now that

01:48:39.240 fire is not there like you can see it like when you're looking at guys Wayne Johnson and Danny Garcia

01:48:43.800 are way more sex oh dude keep the opportunity and the other sex so you're getting into that world

01:48:50.820 that's a sense and it's a different scenario because like these guys like right now I think

01:48:55.740 you know I mean when you go to these shows and when everybody's talking about like these guys aren't

01:49:00.540 suffering and these guys aren't putting in the work and these guys are out of shape and this and

01:49:03.840 that I can tell you that a eight million dollar Under Armour contract or whatever you know like all that

01:49:10.920 kind of money that will literally light a fire under somebody's ass you know and that's yeah and so

01:49:16.840 and then I'm gonna give you the bipolar complete opposite side of it I'd love to see Phil get nine

01:49:22.980 I just don't know if the political power people want to see Phil get nine because I don't know if

01:49:29.040 they want the face yeah of nine to be ahead of Lee Haney or Ronnie because it's almost a little I just

01:49:34.920 hope I'm wrong again I hope I'm wrong we're talking nine Olympias I'm talking nine Olympia yeah yeah yeah

01:49:40.200 that's tough if I'm if I'm a guy that's right now in Olympia I want to see him come get nine because

01:49:46.800 that's that's media that's conversation that's talk but again but but when you think about it like when

01:49:52.600 you know and then I just had this conversation when we're looking at that talk like that guy okay the

01:50:00.460 guy that's gonna do that and I'm not saying it's ever gonna be done but even if it's Phil first he's

01:50:06.520 got to win one more to to eight yeah to get to eight right that just ties him and then he would need

01:50:13.360 another one to break nine to break that like to break that that athlete literally has to be 100%

01:50:24.100 like that athlete doesn't come in and just win I you know what I mean because even when Ronnie was

01:50:29.500 going for nine and we and he was already dealing with the back issues Phil can be a hundred percent

01:50:34.120 I don't know if he can be a hundred percent but in two years I'm not sure if he can be he'll be 41 he's

01:50:39.040 40 right now yeah so he can still go possibly possibly you know but I even when Ronnie was

01:50:44.240 coming in and he was having the back issues and stuff and you know I remember having this

01:50:48.340 conversation with Kim he's like you know this is like nine and and where is he gonna have to be

01:50:52.360 and I go this will be the hardest Olympia ever to win I said no matter even if he's a little bit even

01:50:58.400 if he's a little bit better he's not winning this one because that separates somebody that's a

01:51:03.800 monstrosity of an achievement if anybody could do it maybe Phil maybe Phil but

01:51:08.800 it would be it'll be crazy well Chad I think we have to thank Sean Ray for making this happen

01:51:14.440 if it wasn't for your best friend Sean Ray you and I are not sitting in front of each other

01:51:18.000 conversation exactly but also at the same time I uh I like the fact that you have the courage to

01:51:24.680 sit here and take all the questions you know it's not it's probably the most open I'm like I'm not

01:51:29.260 the most open guy just because bodybuilding is typically not open you know what I'm saying of

01:51:33.620 course um but I think that there's so many negative things out there right now and like look

01:51:39.080 it's not like we're hiding something like we all know what's going on and I think the problem is like

01:51:44.340 there's so much misdirection and so much miss you know uh information out there as far as like what's

01:51:50.640 actually involved and stuff and that's why you know like um even Kim was like you know like how far

01:51:56.120 are you gonna go with this you know and I go you know what like I've never like literally spoke

01:52:00.620 like openly and um I'm gonna speak as open as I possibly can and that's exactly what you did I

01:52:06.000 think that's exactly what the audience is going to appreciate about this I am assuming there's

01:52:09.920 going to be a Sean Ray camp that's going to be here as well to put their thoughts and we want to hear

01:52:13.700 from you as well but Chad appreciate you for coming out really thank you so much 24-hour thing I was

01:52:18.720 here right we're gonna get you on the fly but appreciate you for coming out I appreciate it thank you

01:52:22.660 thanks everybody for listening and by the way if you haven't already subscribed to

01:52:25.860 Valuetainment on iTunes please do so give us a five star write a review if you haven't already

01:52:31.480 and if you have any questions for me that you may have you can always find me on Snapchat

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01:52:41.640 you snap me or send me a message on Instagram with that being said have a great day today take care

01:52:46.420 everybody bye-bye

Valuetainment - March 13, 2020

Episode 441： Chad Nicholls Fires Back - UNCENSORED

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