Valuetainment - Episode 446： Flex Wheeler Opens Up Post Surgery

00:00:00.000 30 seconds.

00:00:30.000 In the history of bodybuilding, this is his first live interview he's doing after his surgery of his leg being amputated, and it's the one and only Flex Wheeler.

00:00:39.300 I want to read something here before we get started.

00:00:41.300 Obviously, if you don't follow bodybuilding, we've done five bodybuilding interviews.

00:00:45.320 Doreen Yates, Ronnie Coleman, Brandon Curry, Phil Heath, and now Flex Wheeler with us.

00:00:50.980 But I want to read something to you because a lot of times when you compete, your peers don't like you.

00:00:57.200 But I just contacted Phil Heath today.

00:00:59.080 I said, Phil, I got Flex coming.

00:01:01.080 He has no idea what to be doing this.

00:01:02.300 I said, I got Flex coming in.

00:01:03.960 What do you want me to read to Flex before we get started?

00:01:06.620 He says, here's what you should tell him because he probably doesn't know this.

00:01:11.140 He says, let him know that he was the first bodybuilder other than Arnold and Lou that I followed as I saw him on ESPN and became a fan.

00:01:18.700 I think this was when you and Mike Matarazzo were doing stuff back in the days.

00:01:21.160 He also doesn't know this, but back in 2005, he bought me a lunch after prejudging at the MPC Junior Nationals while I only had $26 to my name.

00:01:32.500 I have read his book, Flexibility, multiple times.

00:01:35.680 And throughout the years, he has always shot me advice straight when others didn't.

00:01:40.060 He's a legend, and I'm privileged to say, I know Flex Wheeler, the man, not just the bodybuilder.

00:01:47.280 Brother, you are loved by everybody in your world, and I appreciate you for making the time to come out here and being a guest with us.

00:01:54.860 Wow. Makes it difficult to get started with that, but thank you so much.

00:02:00.220 It's an honor to be here.

00:02:01.360 Anytime.

00:02:01.400 And wow, coming from Phil.

00:02:03.920 Actually, I do remember that now.

00:02:06.240 Phenomenal guy and done amazing.

00:02:08.260 But I think that's what everybody wants, right?

00:02:11.560 Regardless of whether you're black, white, gray, antennas coming out of your head just to be accepted for who you are as a person.

00:02:17.700 I think that's what all people strive to have.

00:02:19.900 So, yeah, that's beautiful.

00:02:21.980 I've got to text him later on and send him some money for that one.

00:02:26.020 I think you did.

00:02:26.900 You got him lunch back in the days.

00:02:28.640 But, you know, but it's not just him, though.

00:02:31.200 Ronnie says it about you.

00:02:32.460 He says it about you.

00:02:34.480 I mean, everybody says it about you for the kind of a character you were.

00:02:38.340 And obviously, we've got a lot of things to cover with you here.

00:02:40.660 I'd like to go into the current state of Mr. Olympia.

00:02:42.820 I'd like to go into somebody like you that's been around different decades so you can kind of see this world of Joe Weider time

00:02:49.960 to then Arnold coming up and starting his own Arnold Classic to now where things are.

00:02:54.240 We'll get into some of that stuff.

00:02:55.340 But I want to kind of go back a little bit because I grew up following bodybuilding from the age of 13, 14 when I came to the States.

00:03:03.580 And when I joined the Army, I had all these posters on.

00:03:05.540 Obviously, you have to be on the wall because your physique is the closest thing to perfection of physique I've ever seen as yours.

00:03:12.320 I don't think any physique is the closest to perfection, but everybody goes into bodybuilding for different reasons.

00:03:17.640 I know you know a Fresno guy, and there's a lot of Armenian guys in Fresno, so I had a lot of friends in Fresno, Bakersfield, all that.

00:03:22.580 But bodybuilding and martial arts for some people go in because they were bullied growing up,

00:03:28.880 because they had a girl that said, oh, my gosh, I like your muscles.

00:03:32.640 So it's like, man, I want to get this compliment more to approve a point to a father figure or somebody, mom, somebody in the family.

00:03:39.640 Different motives that they have.

00:03:41.660 What was your motive to wanting to go into bodybuilding and martial arts?

00:03:45.660 Two of those.

00:03:46.840 One, I was just brutally picked on and bullied as a kid.

00:03:50.220 Even though I was a great fighter at a young age, I just couldn't bring myself to hit people on the street.

00:03:57.200 If we were in a ring, then, you know, it's combat, and, you know, I love combat.

00:04:01.660 It's nothing I love more, any sport more than martial arts.

00:04:04.840 But it was odd, actually, me and Dr. Reeve were talking about it.

00:04:11.620 When somebody hit me, I would just let them hit me because I would look at them, and I would think, wow, if I kick them,

00:04:15.980 what if I broke their eye socket, or what if I broke their nose?

00:04:19.360 Or I would think, like, you know, maybe I would just hit them in the stomach, but what if I miss and I break their ribs?

00:04:23.400 So I'm thinking of hurting them and not wanting to while they're thinking of hurting me and wanting to.

00:04:28.060 And I just, I couldn't wire myself to hit people on the street, so actually, one of my tricks was to invite the bully of the school to my martial arts school.

00:04:38.660 And I would annihilate him there, and then he would go back and tell everyone, don't fight him.

00:04:43.320 You know, he knows.

00:04:44.060 So that's the way I got around it.

00:04:45.740 And then the other thing, of course, girls.

00:04:47.160 I mean, I grew up back in the 80s wearing Britannium shirts with a matching belt.

00:04:51.920 Yeah.

00:04:52.800 I mean, so you got to have arms.

00:04:54.700 And 501 jeans, right?

00:04:56.240 That was our gear back then.

00:04:57.520 So it was those two things full, yeah, that got me started.

00:05:00.200 So Fresno, you're coming up in Fresno.

00:05:02.880 Obviously, Fresno, I don't know how Fresno was during that time, but I'm assuming it's not the best place.

00:05:07.600 Rough, tough place, all of that.

00:05:09.620 Yeah, it was kind of like back when the Crips and the Bluts first started getting down.

00:05:13.120 So you just had...

00:05:13.740 So colors, so this is 80s colors.

00:05:15.180 Yeah, so you got cousins and family members on different blocks now at war killing themselves.

00:05:21.320 So it was interesting times back then, yeah.

00:05:25.560 Now, Flex, I watch your videos.

00:05:27.240 You've been posting some of these videos of you fighting.

00:05:28.980 And obviously, I went and looked at some of the others.

00:05:31.080 I cannot believe how quick you are.

00:05:33.840 Were you...

00:05:34.480 Like, did you always have fast twitch?

00:05:36.440 Like, you're...

00:05:37.020 No, it was through the grace of just meeting an incredible martial artist who's like a mentor to me and a big brother.

00:05:44.500 His name is Ty McGuire.

00:05:45.760 And actually, I was in police academy.

00:05:49.220 And I met his business partner and his business partner was telling me how quick his feet were.

00:05:54.680 I'm like, nah, you can't be faster than me.

00:05:57.260 So they invited me to his school.

00:05:59.380 And normally what you'll do is you'll have whoever the guest is fight one of your elite students.

00:06:06.420 You can sit back and watch how good he is.

00:06:08.220 So not meaning to be disrespectful, I just ran through all of his elite students.

00:06:13.640 And he kind of took it, you know, Ty kind of took it as disrespectful.

00:06:18.240 So he said, hey, you know, he's very soft spoke.

00:06:20.140 He goes, hey, so I was getting ready to walk you.

00:06:21.720 He goes, no, no, let's, you know, let's move around a little bit.

00:06:24.780 I'm like, okay.

00:06:26.060 So, I mean, he just touched me everywhere, just lightly.

00:06:29.160 Just foot here, here, here, here, hands just barely.

00:06:31.660 So as an extreme fighter, you understand if they can just barely touch you, they could have knocked you out.

00:06:37.620 It's a lot harder just to touch somebody, to throw it fast enough where they can't see it.

00:06:41.240 Good point, wow.

00:06:41.840 And then pull back before they hurt you.

00:06:45.000 So he just did it, and it just emotionally distraught me because, I mean, I'm like, you know, so I ran out of the place.

00:06:50.660 I was 19.

00:06:51.440 I ran out of the studio, and we ended up becoming good friends.

00:06:54.840 And he goes, you know, I said, why did you do it?

00:06:57.480 He goes, well, you can't just come in my school just running through my students like that and thinking that the teacher is going to be the same.

00:07:04.500 I was like, okay.

00:07:05.260 So I understood that.

00:07:06.080 So it was from him.

00:07:07.400 I didn't have a lot of money back then, and the school I was training at, I couldn't afford to train there.

00:07:12.920 And he's, I tell you what, come to my school, and I'll pay for everything.

00:07:15.940 I'll pay for all your fighting, all your gear, and I guarantee you'll be the number one fighter in USA in one year.

00:07:22.360 And in six months, I was the number one fighter.

00:07:24.520 Get out of here.

00:07:24.980 Yeah, so we'd just train.

00:07:26.840 I mean, he would do things like call me like at 3 o'clock in the morning, let's go train.

00:07:31.680 So me, I'm just wired.

00:07:32.820 I won't say no.

00:07:33.920 I might not want to, but I won't say no.

00:07:36.060 So we'd go and kick up and down football fields and stuff like that.

00:07:39.280 So, yeah, it was just through him.

00:07:41.040 It was just through him of pulling out the raw talent.

00:07:43.680 But like I said, it's nothing better than moving around with a person or being able to execute a technique that they can't even see.

00:07:52.440 You know, it's just, it's better than any drug I can ever imagine.

00:07:56.120 Let me ask you, how much senior is he to you?

00:07:58.480 Was it a generation senior where you had some kind of respect for him?

00:08:01.820 Were you guys pretty close in age?

00:08:02.860 Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:08:03.900 It was tremendous respect.

00:08:05.620 And he actually, what I understood later on in life, he actually showed me tremendous respect because most teachers would have went on and knocked you out because you just brutalize their students.

00:08:16.680 I mean, sweeping them, stomping them and stuff like that and turn around and giggling and walking away.

00:08:21.080 Most, you know, they would take that very offensive.

00:08:23.840 So he just touched me.

00:08:25.240 And he would do things throughout my career.

00:08:26.840 Just one other, you know, short story is because I was the most advanced student in school, he would always, you know, whatever technique he would demonstrate on me and hurt me.

00:08:38.580 You know, I'd be doubled over or crying or whatever.

00:08:40.580 So, but we were real close.

00:08:42.200 We would hang out.

00:08:42.760 Like I said, he was truly a father figure to me.

00:08:46.000 And finally, after a couple of years, I'm like, man, Ty, I go, man, if we boys, why do you always embarrass me?

00:08:51.940 He goes, what do you mean?

00:08:52.740 He goes, you always embarrass me.

00:08:54.160 You hit me harder.

00:08:54.860 You make me fight you in front of everybody.

00:08:56.880 And he goes, you should know better.

00:08:59.180 And he would never ask me.

00:09:00.320 For two years, he would never ask me.

00:09:01.680 And finally, I was in tears, like, why do you do this?

00:09:04.700 You know, and he just looked at me.

00:09:06.480 He goes, you should know better.

00:09:07.620 I go, no, I don't.

00:09:08.740 Stop being philosophical and just tell me.

00:09:10.540 He goes, I want to put you under so much pressure that if you ever got in a fight, you'd be able to handle it because you've been there before.

00:09:20.100 I was like, damn, can't you just say that?

00:09:22.740 He goes, no, wouldn't mean the same.

00:09:24.860 He goes, I just want to prepare you for life.

00:09:26.440 So if you fight me and you can handle me, then you can handle anyone beneath me or above me.

00:09:32.120 So, I mean, what gift is that?

00:09:33.960 That's a tremendous gift.

00:09:35.200 That is incredible.

00:09:36.020 Now, at this time, you're 19 when you first meet him.

00:09:39.440 How many years have you been training martial arts yourself?

00:09:41.920 Oh, my gosh.

00:09:42.640 I started when I was nine after I'd seen the movie Enter the Dragon.

00:09:46.980 So, Bruce Lee was, you know, just looked up to him and just, I got it when I'd seen Enter the Dragon.

00:09:52.260 And I was that guy who got bullied, you know what I mean?

00:09:54.880 So, from the age of nine, I fought all the way until I won the California championship.

00:10:03.160 So, I went to California in 89.

00:10:05.520 And then I went and fought that Sunday and won the California in martial arts.

00:10:09.560 And then it was Thai.

00:10:11.580 I said, you know, which one do I do?

00:10:13.940 He goes, you do which one that chose you?

00:10:15.880 Again, Phil Sopper, I'm like, come on, just tell me.

00:10:18.600 He goes, which one do you think chose you?

00:10:20.740 I'm like, I don't know.

00:10:22.160 I'm good at both, right?

00:10:23.280 He goes, yeah, you are.

00:10:24.560 He goes, but bodybuildings chose you.

00:10:26.400 I go, how do you say it?

00:10:27.540 He goes, well, you've been doing this for X amount of years.

00:10:30.860 You just started in bodybuilding.

00:10:32.040 Look how you accelerated.

00:10:33.760 He goes, now, I believe that you will be ten times better as a martial artist than you ever could be as a bodybuilder.

00:10:40.220 But this will be enough that I think you can beat any bodybuilding champion that you ever lay your eyes on.

00:10:46.740 And he ended up being right about that.

00:10:48.760 So, what I jokingly, I like to post those videos because everybody kind of understands how good I was as a bodybuilder.

00:10:54.640 But I'm like, you have no idea.

00:10:56.700 You're quick.

00:10:57.360 You have no idea.

00:10:58.680 You have no idea.

00:10:59.740 But it's unfair watching you like the other guys.

00:11:02.540 I mean, you know, I have one of our guys.

00:11:05.060 His name is Shihan Alborzi.

00:11:07.200 He's 90-degree black belt, Iranian guy.

00:11:09.520 In Iran, he's a very, very well-known.

00:11:12.480 He'd go to the Olympics, all this stuff.

00:11:13.820 Now he runs an office with us in Orange County.

00:11:17.460 And I watch his kicks, and I see how fast he is.

00:11:20.540 At his age, he's in his 60s.

00:11:21.740 But then he shows videos from back in the days, and you see quickness.

00:11:24.780 I see your quickness, Flex.

00:11:26.520 That's why I wonder, like, did you play football, basketball?

00:11:29.720 Were you an all-score?

00:11:29.960 I sucked in all of them.

00:11:30.820 I sucked.

00:11:31.120 Or you sucked at all of them?

00:11:31.540 I sucked in all of them.

00:11:32.080 I was a late bloomer.

00:11:33.080 Got it.

00:11:33.260 So, and it was hard because my, he's not my twin, but he's a year, I think, and like six

00:11:39.480 months older than me.

00:11:40.300 But he's just a world-class athlete.

00:11:42.140 I mean, he was the fastest man in the Valley, won the West Coast Relays, was in Fresno.

00:11:47.000 In 11th grade, he was beating grown men.

00:11:49.840 And on the football field, I just couldn't do nothing with him.

00:11:52.460 You know, he was a running back, got a four-year scholarship to Fullerton State.

00:11:56.900 So, when you're in the shadow of that, you know what I mean, you just don't think you're

00:12:01.520 any good.

00:12:02.720 So, and plus, I was a late bloomer.

00:12:04.540 I was short, had big feet, you know, trip over my feet when I'm running and stuff like

00:12:08.700 that.

00:12:09.100 So, yeah, but martial arts is really fit for me, and I just fell in sync with it.

00:12:14.960 You ever thought about if you go that direction where life would have gone?

00:12:17.980 I mean, let's just say you don't go bodybuilding.

00:12:19.700 Yeah.

00:12:20.080 And you play that, everybody plays it in their mind.

00:12:22.800 Sure.

00:12:23.060 What if I stay in the military?

00:12:24.760 Because for me, it was this close of staying in the military for 20 years.

00:12:27.380 I was about to re-enlist.

00:12:28.540 What if I did?

00:12:29.160 I would have gone out three years ago.

00:12:30.340 What would life have looked at?

00:12:31.340 Would I have gone and been a sergeant major?

00:12:32.940 What would I have done?

00:12:33.620 Right.

00:12:34.180 Where do you go when you go there?

00:12:35.760 What does your mind take you?

00:12:36.360 Well, I talked to him about it, and we're still close to this day.

00:12:39.500 And the reason he had said that is, back then, it was very well known that if you're a martial

00:12:44.320 artist and you're in a movie, you would come out and do a bunch of flamboyant kicks and

00:12:48.820 stuff like that to establish how good you are, and then a star of the show knocks you

00:12:51.940 out with one punch.

00:12:52.740 So, back then, it was very disrespectful to have someone who couldn't fight because they're

00:12:58.600 the star of the show.

00:12:59.660 Just one punch.

00:13:00.660 A stupid punch.

00:13:01.480 You know, one of these, like, you can telegraph.

00:13:03.160 Yeah, that's right.

00:13:03.540 And they knock you out, and that's it.

00:13:05.660 So, and it was no movie, it was no money involved.

00:13:08.320 So, yeah, now, I mean, it would have been great.

00:13:11.080 I mean, I see some of the great martial artists in movies now, and I'm like, I actually did

00:13:15.720 that stuff in the ring that they were doing on set, you know, where the person knows what

00:13:19.800 they're about to do and is choreographed.

00:13:21.280 I'm like, you know, I did that stuff fighting.

00:13:24.040 So, but you can't go back and what if, what if, what if, what if, what if.

00:13:27.440 It'll drive you insane.

00:13:28.240 Yeah, yeah, so what I understand is, is everything that I've been through to get to where I am

00:13:32.640 now helped me to be the person that I am, regardless whether it was good or bad.

00:13:36.500 You take one of those away, then it's a lot, it's a table with four legs.

00:13:40.340 You take one away, now it's three.

00:13:41.720 It's not going to be the same.

00:13:42.700 So, I got to embrace all of that, and I do.

00:13:45.060 So, you're obviously a big Bruce Lee guy.

00:13:47.720 I mean, I watch, read your stuff, Bruce Lee, Bruce Lee everywhere.

00:13:51.360 So, if Bruce Lee was on the martial arts side, who was that on the bodybuilding side?

00:13:55.560 I don't know, because it's so subjective.

00:14:00.220 If we're fighting, and I do a technique, and you can't stop me, you know, there's no argument

00:14:08.300 about that, right?

00:14:09.800 But if two beautiful twin girls walking in around, ladies right now, it's about presence,

00:14:16.540 right?

00:14:16.840 It's about presence.

00:14:17.620 So, for whatever reason, maybe you're looking at the girl on the right more, and I'm looking

00:14:21.400 at the girl on the left more.

00:14:22.780 So, what it is, is that one has presence over the other one.

00:14:25.860 So, you don't even give the other one a fair shake.

00:14:27.480 So, it's kind of like that on stage.

00:14:28.960 If you walk on stage, and you can just feel presence of a person walking in a room, they're

00:14:34.000 already winning, because eyes are going to hit them more.

00:14:36.300 So, if I can still, if it's five of us on stage, and we only have 10 minutes to display,

00:14:41.620 all of us, and I still 7 seconds, I mean, sorry, 7 seconds, 10 seconds, and I still 7 seconds

00:14:48.780 of that 10, it's not fair for the other four people up there.

00:14:52.180 So, it's about presence also.

00:14:54.000 So, the way I present myself, or I pose, or maybe I smile, or engage with the crowd, whatever,

00:14:59.040 all that's about presence.

00:15:00.340 So, it's subjective, right?

00:15:02.340 Because how can you really say?

00:15:03.940 That's why you have some people say, oh, so-and-so is a champion, or this person is

00:15:07.940 a champion, or this person is the best.

00:15:09.240 But, if I do a technique, and I just knock you out, there's no question about it.

00:15:15.160 There's no question about it.

00:15:16.460 Since, with most sports, though, that are non-combat, right?

00:15:19.240 Kobe's the best.

00:15:19.900 Now, Michael Jordan's the best.

00:15:20.840 Now, LeBron's the best.

00:15:22.080 It's subjective, because they're not going to get down with each other that way.

00:15:25.660 But, in combat sports, it's different now.

00:15:28.320 I'm talking real combat sports.

00:15:29.680 I'm not talking where it's set up a fight, and this, that, and other.

00:15:31.940 I'm talking in its true essence.

00:15:34.680 No, it's an argument or not.

00:15:35.780 Did you have somebody you looked up to in bodybuilding?

00:15:37.840 Like, was there somebody where you said, you know, Michael Jordan's David Thompson.

00:15:42.820 You know, Ronnie is Lee Haney.

00:15:44.500 You look at some of these guys.

00:15:45.660 Was there anyone for you?

00:15:47.080 Yeah.

00:15:47.440 I mean, I, so I, you know, I come from a very humble background, really poor.

00:15:52.840 So, my gym that I trained in didn't have many magazines.

00:15:57.560 So, I wasn't really brought up knowing who bodybuilders were.

00:16:01.440 I heard of, obviously, Arnold Schwarzenegger, and I heard of Lee Haney, and then I heard of

00:16:06.080 Sean Ray.

00:16:06.580 And those were the only bodybuilders I heard of.

00:16:09.120 But, because coming back from a martial arts background, I understood I can learn from

00:16:12.840 anyone.

00:16:13.780 So, it doesn't have to be somebody great.

00:16:15.580 It could be the guy in the gym next door to me that's training.

00:16:18.140 So, I just looked up and admired everybody who accelerated in a sport.

00:16:22.420 And I would steal different parts from everyone.

00:16:24.400 If it fits me, I'd take this part from this guy, this part from that guy.

00:16:27.180 So, I just really appreciated everybody who just really was able to take it to a different

00:16:31.700 level.

00:16:32.900 And I just tried to emulate whatever I felt that fit in my reservoir.

00:16:36.300 And then I kind of created my own personality and stuff like that.

00:16:40.120 But I learned through the history of other guys and watching them when I competed against

00:16:43.780 them.

00:16:43.960 Who'd you study the most?

00:16:45.000 Anybody you studied?

00:16:46.040 I got...

00:16:46.500 I hate to say this.

00:16:47.600 Jesus Christ, man.

00:16:50.420 Sean Ray.

00:16:51.880 Yeah.

00:16:52.360 Sean Ray.

00:16:52.820 Sean Ray.

00:16:53.000 Because...

00:16:53.820 Wow.

00:16:54.820 The elegant way he posed because we're looked at as Brutus on stage, right?

00:17:00.200 You know, kind of like the Incredible Hulk, just a mess.

00:17:02.160 And he was very elegant on stage.

00:17:04.400 And I like that because I came from a martial arts background.

00:17:07.220 So, he was one of the first.

00:17:09.060 But then I learned who he learned from, which he learned from John Brown and so on.

00:17:14.060 So, I then start watching those people compete and stuff like that.

00:17:17.000 And I just always wanted to be the most, you know, defined, massive person on stage, but

00:17:23.760 move like smoke in the air, like a ballerina on stage.

00:17:28.560 That was always my goal, was to look just ungodly muscular, but just be able to move just so fluently

00:17:35.020 and gracefully and stuff like that.

00:17:37.500 And you did that, though.

00:17:38.920 I tried.

00:17:40.000 I tried.

00:17:40.440 No, you did that.

00:17:41.360 But what I was always curious about, your posing routines, you would have what?

00:17:45.580 You would do Exhibit, Ice Cube, let me see if I can remember, LL Cool J, you would do

00:17:51.560 Corrupt, you would do all of them, like, you know, what is he?

00:17:55.620 You know, and you would have them like a remix go through.

00:17:58.460 Are you an R&B guy?

00:17:59.740 Are you a hip-hop guy yourself?

00:18:01.280 I'm everything.

00:18:02.000 So, my logic to that, and it was a logic to it, if you go to a rock concert, as soon as

00:18:08.540 the music come on, everybody goes nuts.

00:18:11.400 Nobody's paying attention to nothing.

00:18:12.500 If you go to a, to listen to a symphony, everybody sits down and be quiet and pays attention.

00:18:20.060 So, I considered myself an artist, so that's why the first, we got three minutes.

00:18:24.700 So, the first two minutes and 30 seconds, I would have slow music, because I want people

00:18:29.080 to sit down and be quiet, and I want to display something for you.

00:18:31.920 But I know after a while that gets boring, just like a movie.

00:18:34.980 And a movie, it can take you through all these different emotional, but it has to bring

00:18:38.420 out on the up, or else you walk away disenchanted.

00:18:41.080 So, I had to turn it up the last 30 seconds to get people hyped, or else they'd be disenchanted,

00:18:46.600 you know what I mean, by just falling asleep or whatever.

00:18:49.600 So, that was kind of my logic.

00:18:51.320 And I would always just pick the hottest song at the time.

00:18:54.860 And back then, it was West Coast.

00:18:57.580 They were just really banging on the head.

00:18:58.960 So, I wanted people to identify to the music as soon as I heard the first beat, which means

00:19:03.840 they get out of their seat and they go crazy.

00:19:06.080 So, that was kind of...

00:19:06.560 I mean, you would see that.

00:19:07.240 You would see that happening.

00:19:08.380 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:19:08.700 And then, you know how to dance, and you know how to, you know...

00:19:10.540 I don't know how to dance.

00:19:11.340 Well, I mean, the way it looks like, it looks like you know what you're doing.

00:19:13.780 Yeah, I would do like maybe two or three movements, and that's it, before people figure

00:19:17.420 it out.

00:19:17.780 But no, I just, I'm a, I'm a, I'm an introvert.

00:19:22.680 So, normally, you know, introverts are extroverts when they're on stage, you know.

00:19:26.660 So, I was very, I was always uncomfortable on stage, uncomfortable in my skin.

00:19:33.520 But I learned at a young age, if people find out your weaknesses, they'll use them against

00:19:38.180 you.

00:19:38.940 So, if I walk out on stage, and I'm like, then people are going to dig deeper.

00:19:43.540 Like, what's wrong with this?

00:19:44.260 Oh, I see this, I see this.

00:19:45.060 But if I walk out confident and arrogant, they give me a once-over, and then don't pay

00:19:48.760 attention.

00:19:49.160 Kind of like if, if I walked into this building, and it smelled great, but it didn't look really

00:19:54.080 clean, from the smell of it, I'm going to relax.

00:19:56.720 I'm going to look around a little bit.

00:19:57.700 Oh, it's okay.

00:19:58.980 But if the room really stunk, but it was spotless, I'm going to continue looking.

00:20:04.300 Where, where is that?

00:20:05.560 So, that's the way it is on stage.

00:20:07.020 If you look confident, people are going to give you a once-over, and they're going to

00:20:09.560 kind of relax.

00:20:10.620 But if you're up there very unconfident, and you're looking at yourself, and you're like,

00:20:13.880 they're going to stir you down like, oh, okay, you know, what is it?

00:20:17.420 And they'll start picking things apart.

00:20:18.960 So, that was kind of my, my thought on that whole thing.

00:20:22.320 Especially in the world you're in, because in the world you're in, you know, it's, like

00:20:26.380 you said earlier, subjective versus, you know, you know, in your underwear in front of millions

00:20:31.680 of people.

00:20:32.020 In front of, in the underwear in front of millions of people, and all that, they're watching,

00:20:35.400 all that.

00:20:36.080 Who were you on stage with that set aside the guys that are on the greatest of all time

00:20:42.520 list?

00:20:42.740 Not those guys.

00:20:44.020 The guys that never won, or the guys that were never even, aren't the classic champs.

00:20:49.800 I'm talking guys that were, that came in, and they had incredible presence, but they

00:20:54.920 didn't have the physique.

00:20:55.980 Was there anybody where you looked and said, this guy's presence is just incredible.

00:20:59.580 Why is he so confident in himself?

00:21:00.960 Who were some of those guys?

00:21:01.860 I don't, I don't remember their names, but it, I always admired them, right?

00:21:05.840 Because you see a guy come out, and maybe he wasn't in great shape, or maybe even his

00:21:10.100 color was off, or something, that, man, he just had such enthusiasm, that it wins a crowd

00:21:16.140 over.

00:21:16.340 Mm.

00:21:17.040 You know, and they'll start going like this, what I put in the crowd, and start clapping.

00:21:20.240 So that's that ability to control the crowd, and if you can do that well enough, and have

00:21:25.160 an okay physique, you'll, you'll get by, and do pretty good, because you're selling yourself.

00:21:30.300 It's, it's not always about how good you are on stage.

00:21:34.760 It's, it's, a lot of it is smoke and mirrors.

00:21:36.680 It's, um, how well can I hide my weaknesses, and, you know, how, how well could I, uh, um,

00:21:44.140 show off my strengths, and, and doing so, um, will nine times out of ten have you fare

00:21:50.080 out pretty well, uh, especially if you, like you said, the opposite.

00:21:53.600 See, a guy just came out on stage, and he was just, like, ungodly, unreal, just a demigod,

00:21:59.300 but he couldn't pose.

00:22:00.780 You know, he'd do a lot spread like this, and it doesn't matter.

00:22:05.000 He can't present himself.

00:22:05.940 So, that's that art, I think, that kind of left the sport, where you had to be able to

00:22:11.300 present yourself at a high level, or it just didn't matter.

00:22:14.200 When they judged us on our performance, and music, and our color, and all that stuff, it's

00:22:18.820 kind of gone, which I think, um, you know, a lot of us old-timers, I even remember Lee

00:22:23.360 Labrada telling me, he goes, Flex, I'm not going to go to show anymore.

00:22:26.460 He goes, why?

00:22:26.960 He goes, you're retired.

00:22:27.800 He goes, it's just boring.

00:22:28.780 Guys just go up there, and they just do this stupid pose, and it's boring.

00:22:32.320 It's not artistic, like, you know, we used to do, and I'm like, yeah, you, you know, you're

00:22:36.080 kind of right, because it's a very subjective sport, right?

00:22:38.720 If you don't know someone, or have a family member, or a friend, or your training partner,

00:22:42.380 chances are you're not going to go to a bodybuilding show.

00:22:44.920 You know, it's not like basketball or MMA.

00:22:47.420 You can just be completely ignorant to it, and sit there, and enjoy it.

00:22:50.480 Our sport, you've got to kind of understand what we're doing, and understand the background

00:22:53.960 of why we did it, and what we had to go through to kind of really, you know, enjoy that.

00:22:58.100 It's not just a visual sport where you can just walk in and just sit there, kind of like

00:23:01.820 golf.

00:23:02.520 I can't watch golf, but certain people who play golf, I'm interested in them, so I'll

00:23:06.440 watch.

00:23:07.140 It's kind of like that.

00:23:08.500 Yeah, that's a good point.

00:23:09.960 Tiger pulled me into golf.

00:23:11.160 I mean, I couldn't watch golf until.

00:23:12.640 He's one of the only guys that got the painting on there because of who Tiger was, but since

00:23:19.080 you brought up the bodybuilding side, presence-wise, out of all the guys you competed against, these

00:23:25.080 are names that we know, who had the strongest presence on stage?

00:23:30.360 Ronnie and Dorian, yeah, to me.

00:23:32.400 Yeah, those are two people that I could feel their presence standing next to me, and I didn't

00:23:36.500 like it.

00:23:36.920 It was very eerie.

00:23:37.760 You know, I felt very dominant against anyone else, and it didn't have to do with size or

00:23:42.960 anything like that, so those are probably the two people that was very eerie.

00:23:48.380 If I'm standing here and I'm looking straight and I can feel and see them in my peripheral

00:23:53.300 vision, that's unnerving.

00:23:55.260 You know, I'm trying to block everybody out, you know, so definitely, but out of those two,

00:24:00.700 of course, Ronnie, I mean, geez, what are you going to do?

00:24:03.000 You know, what are you going to do?

00:24:03.980 You cannot work the guy because he's just a mule.

00:24:07.300 He's just going to work, work, work, and then, I mean, in my opinion, he's the greatest

00:24:13.760 Mr. Olympia of all times.

00:24:14.900 I don't think anybody will ever break that record, and when I say record, I don't mean

00:24:18.360 a number.

00:24:18.940 Somebody will probably get eight or nine, but they'll never beat him.

00:24:21.660 You know, they'll never beat his all-time best look.

00:24:23.980 It's not going to happen.

00:24:24.420 You don't think so?

00:24:25.180 Not going to happen.

00:24:25.760 Really?

00:24:26.280 Not going to happen.

00:24:27.200 Not going to happen.

00:24:27.580 No one's going to beat his look?

00:24:29.660 Nah, not going to happen.

00:24:31.200 Wow.

00:24:31.740 You had him up here.

00:24:32.780 Yeah, it's a bold statement.

00:24:33.920 So you've seen what those pictures he looks like.

00:24:35.600 Oh, I liked his look when he was 15th or whatever the year he was, I don't know what the rank

00:24:40.880 was, 14th, 15th, but two years before he went to ninth and then first.

00:24:44.440 The skinny and then the muscle, the way he was set up is just, but you guys have a lot

00:24:49.460 in common physique-wise.

00:24:50.940 So Ronnie and Dorian, do you think presence can be taught and learned, or do you think that's

00:24:58.000 something that a person has?

00:24:59.540 I think it's both.

00:25:01.240 You can have somebody who's like a natural dancer.

00:25:03.780 They just look at it and they pick it up.

00:25:05.480 And then it's kind of like in martial arts, you can have somebody who's just natural.

00:25:09.500 And then you have people that I fear the most are technicians.

00:25:12.800 They look at you, they break down everything you're doing, and they can emulate it or stop

00:25:16.920 you because they're very technical about everything.

00:25:18.980 So me, if I was fighting myself, I'd be like, all right, his right leg is his superior leg.

00:25:25.440 His right hand is his superior hand.

00:25:27.520 So if I can nullify those two things, I have a better chance of beating them versus someone

00:25:32.460 who's just going to fight me on my mere merits of speed and everything.

00:25:36.980 No, you can't.

00:25:37.840 It's different.

00:25:39.060 But if you're sitting there watching me and you break down my moves, and I'm not going

00:25:42.380 to say, oh, but there's a number, probably about 10 different moves.

00:25:47.700 I was really superior, and I knew I would make contact no matter what.

00:25:50.960 So if you already understood that and nullified him, now I'm in a fight.

00:25:54.720 It's going to be a whole different fight.

00:25:56.360 So it's the same thing on stage.

00:25:58.120 You know, I went to Morgan Stanley Dean with his training back on 9, 10 is when I got started,

00:26:04.560 2001, and we went to San Francisco because 9-11 happened, so we couldn't go to New York.

00:26:08.120 We went to San Francisco.

00:26:09.280 One of my guys, classmates, was a guy named Glenn Hopkins, and Glenn Hopkins was a Marvel

00:26:14.720 guy.

00:26:15.040 He used to work at Marvel, and he did all this stuff with Spider-Man, just a big personality

00:26:19.060 guy.

00:26:20.280 I think his wife at the time was, this is going to sound strange, his wife was, remember

00:26:24.940 the movie American Pie?

00:26:26.140 Is it American Pie?

00:26:26.940 Yeah, I remember that movie.

00:26:27.540 Steve Fleur's mom was his wife, okay?

00:26:30.120 You just got to put it to you.

00:26:32.900 So, but this guy was flamboyant, and he had a great personality.

00:26:36.560 I'm 21 years old at the time, 22 years old at the time.

00:26:39.480 He says, I'm going to teach you something.

00:26:40.820 We're going to play a game.

00:26:41.780 So, okay.

00:26:42.620 So he takes me to this coffee shop in San Francisco, and we sit there.

00:26:46.040 He says, okay, I want you to guess everyone's net worth when they come in.

00:26:49.860 I said, you want me to guess what?

00:26:51.340 He said, I want you to guess people's net worth.

00:26:52.800 I said, what does that got to do with anything?

00:26:54.060 He says, you're a financial advisor.

00:26:56.000 You better be able to read their net worth.

00:26:58.300 I said, okay.

00:26:59.380 He says, what do you think that guy's worth?

00:27:01.780 I said, a guy looks like he's rich.

00:27:03.620 He says, that guy's broke.

00:27:05.420 The watch he's got on is fake.

00:27:07.500 Those shoes are $150.

00:27:08.980 That guy's broke.

00:27:09.840 I said, really?

00:27:10.340 Huh, interesting.

00:27:11.340 Next guy, what do you think this guy's worth?

00:27:12.860 I said, not a lot.

00:27:13.800 How about this guy?

00:27:14.620 Finally, this guy comes in shorts, T-shirt, just a regular blue watch.

00:27:17.920 I said, how about this guy?

00:27:19.080 He says, that guy's probably worth $20 to $30 million.

00:27:21.480 I said, tell me why.

00:27:22.600 He says, the watch he's got on doesn't look like anything.

00:27:25.300 That's a quarter million dollar watch.

00:27:27.200 The loafers he's got on, that's $1,300.

00:27:29.740 His shirt is a regular shirt, but it's a $4,500 shirt, and his shorts are $600.

00:27:33.980 That guy's got money.

00:27:34.980 We got to talk to this guy.

00:27:35.980 And then he would get up, and he would go talk to me.

00:27:37.520 How are you?

00:27:38.380 What's your name?

00:27:38.760 I like your loafers.

00:27:39.440 I noticed you're wearing this.

00:27:40.640 And then he would go, boom, cart, and then he would go.

00:27:42.820 So he says, you got to watch as a financial advisor.

00:27:45.700 So in the bodybuilding world, because I don't know what you're looking at right now, right?

00:27:49.980 You look at this room in a different way than I look at a room, and I look at a room in a different way than you look at a room.

00:27:54.020 So when you walk into the bodybuilding world, and you're looking at each other's body, and you're scoping each other out, what are you looking at?

00:28:00.280 What are bodybuilders looking at with their competitors?

00:28:02.920 So first thing, it's a psych out.

00:28:04.800 Like, even though me and Ronnie were inseparable, we were close, he'd stay at my house preparing for the Olympia, and so on.

00:28:12.360 And I've stayed at Dorian's house, which they both talked about.

00:28:15.940 When it comes to going backstage, I don't make eye contact with you anymore.

00:28:19.780 Not in that way.

00:28:20.560 I'll walk, hey, man, how you doing, blah, blah, blah, sit, but I'm not going to look at you.

00:28:23.520 I'm going to look you in the face, blah, blah, blah.

00:28:25.060 When you're not looking, then I'll glance over, but I don't want you to know that I'm looking.

00:28:28.580 Because if I'm looking at you, then you obviously look good.

00:28:31.560 So it's a psych out.

00:28:33.740 Other than that, for me, it really didn't matter what you look like backstage or getting ready for the show.

00:28:40.240 It's only that 45 minutes on stage that matters.

00:28:43.060 So our nerves would just blow us off.

00:28:45.700 I mean, we, you know, retain sub-Q water within seconds, because the nervous system and everything, you're trying to work with the body.

00:28:52.620 And we can't.

00:28:54.000 We're just trying to manipulate it for X amount of hours.

00:28:57.060 So sometimes, and you've seen this, a person would come on stage, and they'll look great.

00:29:02.460 And as the show goes on, 10, 20, 30 minutes, they look horrible.

00:29:05.980 So it never really bothered me what a person looked like backstage is what they look like on stage and how they presented themselves.

00:29:13.860 Because I've been around a lot of great bodybuilders who I'll look at in the gym, and they would just give me, I'd be like, how am I going to beat this guy?

00:29:23.000 One, for instance, is Paul DeLette.

00:29:24.440 I mean, Jurassic Park, I mean, is my training partner or my roommate.

00:29:28.400 And I'd look at him in the gym, and I'm like, what am I going to do about this guy?

00:29:32.400 But when we got on stage, you know, I could just flip a switch and be a different person.

00:29:39.540 And most of the time, that was the reason why there was a difference.

00:29:42.640 And so none of those really factors mean anything backstage.

00:29:47.060 And if you are really good.

00:29:48.200 So I was also the person that if you look great or you are struggling, I'm back behind you rooting you on.

00:29:53.740 It's not me and you.

00:29:54.640 It's not like a combat fight where I knocked you out and taunted you while you were laying there bleeding.

00:30:00.740 You know, that's kind of insulting.

00:30:02.620 But it's a subjective sport.

00:30:04.100 We got seven guys down there, or women, who are picking who's the best.

00:30:07.760 I didn't do nothing to you.

00:30:09.400 Why should I be mad at you that you won or lost?

00:30:11.940 Why should I be mad that you're doing good?

00:30:13.620 But they're going to make that decision.

00:30:15.760 So just like every man or woman up there on stage, they're trying to do like you.

00:30:18.640 They're trying to make money.

00:30:19.400 They're trying to take care of themselves, make a living.

00:30:21.480 Why would you be pissed off that this person beat you?

00:30:24.660 If you really want to be a man about it, go down and talk to the judges.

00:30:28.060 Why would you disrespect this guy and say, he didn't look good.

00:30:30.800 I should have beat him.

00:30:32.020 That's a coward.

00:30:32.760 Is that common in your world?

00:30:34.660 It is now.

00:30:35.440 Not back in my era.

00:30:36.220 Okay.

00:30:36.700 It is now.

00:30:38.100 You read about it and you hear a lot of it.

00:30:40.480 For me.

00:30:41.460 Undermining their peers and all that.

00:30:43.080 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:30:44.020 It was going on a little bit in my era, but I never got caught up in it.

00:30:48.740 You know, people would say like, you know, I'm.

00:30:52.500 How did the H win with the bicep and all that?

00:30:54.840 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:30:54.880 Or you're taking food off, money off my table, food off my table.

00:30:59.380 And I'm like, I didn't.

00:31:01.500 You might want to go talk to the judges because they're the one who gave me the nod, not you.

00:31:05.540 So I just never got caught up in that.

00:31:07.800 I mean, these people trying to do the same thing I'm trying to do, trying to make money and take care of themselves.

00:31:12.340 Why in the hell would you be pissed?

00:31:14.340 Everybody always asks me, you know, what did you say to Ronnie when he won in 98?

00:31:18.620 When he whispered and he got down.

00:31:20.180 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:31:21.080 He was my friend.

00:31:22.400 So I said, man, I love you.

00:31:23.620 Congratulations.

00:31:24.560 By the way, I'm not going to be at your victory party tonight.

00:31:27.120 Why in the hell would I go?

00:31:29.840 Sit there and soak while this man is feeling on top of me?

00:31:33.120 That ain't a real friend.

00:31:33.980 So I went back to my room and hung out with my people and ate pizza.

00:31:37.440 But why would I go there and hang out?

00:31:38.900 I mean, that's not cool.

00:31:40.120 Did you have, Fleck, did you have the mindset of I want to be the greatest of all time?

00:31:44.660 Like, was that you or what was your mindset when you were competing?

00:31:50.100 I have clients in music.

00:31:52.100 I have clients in business.

00:31:53.520 I have clients in Hollywood, you know, sports and all that.

00:31:56.340 And it's very different.

00:31:57.280 One time I was in a couple of my clients in the sports side.

00:32:01.880 And they were talking about their teammates.

00:32:03.700 This is Sean Kemp era, if you remember Sean Kemp.

00:32:05.880 Yeah, I do.

00:32:06.140 Gary Payton, Kendall Gill, like all that era.

00:32:07.940 So we're talking about all these other players.

00:32:09.620 I said, what is it like?

00:32:10.960 And he says, you know, you got to realize in basketball, once you get in and you have

00:32:17.140 game and you're a starter, you got parties, you got girls, you got stuff that's happening

00:32:22.480 that makes no sense.

00:32:23.720 Like you can go to the mall and all of a sudden you're going into the dressing room.

00:32:27.660 Average man or, you know, they don't experience these kinds of things.

00:32:31.340 You're driving.

00:32:32.060 Hey, what's up?

00:32:32.700 Girl gets in the car.

00:32:33.600 You go, you know.

00:32:34.800 So the average guy who doesn't have that experience cannot really understand what it is to be

00:32:41.620 you, right?

00:32:42.420 Like, you know, when a girl is dropped at Gorgeous and she's working at the mall and

00:32:46.740 she's 18 years old and she doesn't yet know she's beautiful, 50 guys hit on her on a daily

00:32:51.020 basis versus somebody else may not experience that, right?

00:32:53.480 So in basketball, you go in, you go in and you're like, okay, this is all this limelight.

00:32:58.180 It's kind of cool.

00:32:59.020 The girl in high school that was never interested, she just called me.

00:33:01.320 So I got together with her and her and her and her, all the ones that I couldn't

00:33:04.640 because, you know, I'm not saying you're thinking that way, but you're kind of like,

00:33:07.760 I got with this, I got with that, I got with that, okay.

00:33:10.300 So what's left?

00:33:11.680 And then it's, I'm playing ball, you know, they know who I am.

00:33:15.680 I'm on magazines, I'm on, you know, Sports Illustrated, whatever, on the basketball side.

00:33:20.140 And then comes All-Star and I got talent where I can compete.

00:33:22.900 And then you got these psycho competitor guys that, like Kobe, who they all, like you're

00:33:30.780 talking about Ronnie, like he works like a mule, you know, guys like that.

00:33:34.240 Yeah.

00:33:35.260 Who were you in this world?

00:33:38.920 So to answer your first question, I always had self-esteem problems.

00:33:44.700 I always had self-esteem problems.

00:33:46.240 So I never believed in myself in anything.

00:33:48.680 As a martial artist, I fought terrified.

00:33:50.960 I fought terrified.

00:33:53.240 And I wanted to, I always attacked because I didn't want to know what you had to offer.

00:33:57.660 So I always tried to attack my opponent.

00:33:59.980 And then I tried to own them within the first 30 seconds so I can relax and then fight better.

00:34:06.080 Because when you have me unsure of myself, I'm thinking.

00:34:11.360 So action, reaction time, I'm already hit.

00:34:13.400 Instead of thinking about hitting you.

00:34:15.260 So in bodybuilding, like I said, I came across very cocky, arrogant, because I was terrified.

00:34:25.480 You know, any of the videos you watch, when I tapped a person on the stage next to me, you know, people looked at that like, wow, look how arrogant he is.

00:34:33.240 You know, he's showing that he's better.

00:34:34.640 No, actually it wasn't.

00:34:35.860 It was, I was trying to do like a sleight of hands.

00:34:38.400 So if you're looking at us and I'm uncomfortable, if I put my arm around this guy, I just transferred all my energy to him.

00:34:45.740 So now you're going to look at him.

00:34:46.960 You're not looking at me anymore.

00:34:48.860 And that was my way of trying to do that.

00:34:51.600 But so I was wired differently, even though I didn't think I was good at it.

00:34:58.140 It didn't stop me from just trying to kill it in a gym.

00:35:00.880 Most people would say, okay, I'm not good.

00:35:02.140 I'm not going to try hard.

00:35:03.800 I'd be like, I'm more or less of a realist.

00:35:06.960 I don't think I'm that good.

00:35:08.460 But man, it ain't going to be because I didn't put everything into it.

00:35:11.280 I don't think it's going to happen, but I'm going to go try anyway.

00:35:13.960 Where most people are like, I'm not that good at it.

00:35:15.440 I'm not going to try, you know.

00:35:17.700 So my work, I love training.

00:35:21.380 You know, all we did is eat, sleep, and train.

00:35:24.080 I didn't believe in video games or going out or partying.

00:35:26.940 Oh, you did not?

00:35:27.620 No.

00:35:28.060 So you weren't running around with girls left and right partying all that?

00:35:32.340 Not during training.

00:35:33.700 So not during training.

00:35:34.680 But unfortunately, you know, they say that about athletes.

00:35:37.720 But I jokingly say, and I'll reverse it at, yeah, but we're sleeping with normal people.

00:35:42.300 So there's two of us, right?

00:35:44.580 So you can't say the athletes are all bad because they're not running around sleeping with other athletes.

00:35:48.980 They're sleeping with normal.

00:35:49.780 So the common denominator is people do that.

00:35:52.560 Don't just throw it on athletes or somebody who has money or not because people just do that.

00:35:57.020 So don't put it on them.

00:35:58.800 But during training season, if we went out to a club, which we talked about before, my buddies worked at a club and I did for a while, I'd be like leaving by 11.

00:36:08.160 So they wouldn't even go with me anymore.

00:36:09.520 They're like, Flex, you got to drive by yourself because they want to stay until 2 or 3.

00:36:12.860 And I'm like, I'm tired, man.

00:36:13.800 I'm going home.

00:36:14.380 I'm sleepy.

00:36:14.820 So, but other than that, I just, I wasn't into drinking, smoking, anything.

00:36:20.240 If it didn't better me, now I had to do certain things that looked the way I did.

00:36:23.420 So if it didn't better my craft, I wasn't about it.

00:36:27.160 Just at all.

00:36:28.160 So you, so, okay.

00:36:28.920 So, so you weren't the party animal guy?

00:36:32.440 No, no.

00:36:33.220 And I don't, I don't, I don't know if it was during my era or not because I wasn't around.

00:36:37.660 My boys, we didn't get down like that.

00:36:39.080 Me, Chris Rico, they would go out and hang out, you know, to hit on girls or whatever.

00:36:43.320 But that's it.

00:36:44.080 I mean, we just didn't go out all the time and they went out a lot more than I did.

00:36:47.000 But I just wasn't a type of guy.

00:36:49.240 Remember, I'm, I'm, I'm insecure.

00:36:51.020 So I'm not going to be at a club shooting at girls.

00:36:54.380 That's, that's not me.

00:36:55.380 I'm not going to walk up to a girl and say, hey, you want to dance?

00:36:57.660 Because I'm, I'm fearful of getting turned down.

00:37:00.460 Who, who, who, who was the first person in your life that said, Flex, you can be somebody in your life?

00:37:04.360 Um, his name was Joe Jennings.

00:37:06.000 Um, just a local bodybuilder from Fresno.

00:37:08.160 And then a bigger name, uh, Jeff Lawson, you know, um, I remember them saying, you know, wow, you got great genetics.

00:37:13.860 And, and in my ignorance, I'm like, what are you, what are you calling me?

00:37:17.420 Black?

00:37:17.860 Is that a derogatory?

00:37:18.620 I, I didn't know.

00:37:19.640 I didn't know what that word meant, you know?

00:37:21.520 Oh, you didn't know what genetics meant?

00:37:22.800 No.

00:37:23.080 I didn't know at all.

00:37:23.840 How old were you when Joe Jennings said, uh, you got a great body?

00:37:26.760 Uh, probably about 16.

00:37:29.080 16 years old.

00:37:29.940 Yeah.

00:37:30.240 So father figure, any man in your life that was encouraging.

00:37:35.060 My, my, my dad was deep into football and basketball.

00:37:38.660 He got a double scholarship.

00:37:39.560 So my brother Donnell being that, you know, he was an incredible football player and track

00:37:44.080 star.

00:37:44.760 It's kind of a sport in school.

00:37:46.480 So everybody goes to it, right?

00:37:48.200 Who's going to go to a martial arts tournament?

00:37:50.240 You know what I mean?

00:37:50.620 The school's there.

00:37:51.780 The school is supporting it.

00:37:52.980 Um, so it's, it's a big time sport.

00:37:54.980 Martial arts isn't, especially back then.

00:37:57.100 And then when you got bodybuilding, that's kind of weird.

00:37:59.080 What are you doing?

00:37:59.740 You know, why you wear those, those underwear?

00:38:01.440 You know, you got grease.

00:38:02.680 I remember my grandmother, you know, she goes, you look like a greased up pig, you know,

00:38:06.140 in her beautiful way of saying, cause she just didn't understand.

00:38:09.760 The innocence.

00:38:10.580 That's great.

00:38:11.180 Beautiful.

00:38:11.620 Yeah.

00:38:11.840 I mean, she was born in 1909.

00:38:13.400 So, but, um, yeah, so I, I just threw everything into it, but I was just terrified, man.

00:38:20.340 I mean, if I went and competed in the Ironman or the Arnold, I'd be like, you guys got to

00:38:25.360 come get me.

00:38:26.040 I own this, but I don't know why when it came to Olympia, I'm like, I'm just going to go

00:38:31.160 try and, you know, I'll settle for a second.

00:38:33.480 I just never, I truly never believed I can be, uh, first number one in the world.

00:38:38.840 Fear of failure or fear of success?

00:38:41.180 Um, I'd probably say both, both.

00:38:47.560 Cause both can be very damaging.

00:38:49.960 Both can devastate you.

00:38:52.120 Um, I would say just fear.

00:38:54.420 Cause again, I'm insecure and in low self-esteem.

00:38:57.240 So it was just a fear of, um, of possibly being at, well, I had a lot of pressure on me already

00:39:03.020 because how good I was.

00:39:04.440 So I was expected, you know, to look a certain way.

00:39:07.280 And, you know, um, a lot of us believed I was judged on my best, not if I was better

00:39:12.840 than other people on stage.

00:39:14.160 So I remember, you know, one time I took, after my car accident, I broke C5 and C6.

00:39:20.100 Mm-hmm.

00:39:20.760 And, um...

00:39:21.600 It's 94?

00:39:22.360 Yeah, 94.

00:39:23.320 Um, and I came back and I competed in that February after breaking C5 and C6.

00:39:28.940 And I ended up winning the Ironman.

00:39:31.120 And, um, the next weekend I went to the Arnold and I took second.

00:39:34.800 And when I had the car accident, you know, the company I was with, I don't want to be

00:39:38.540 disrespectful, but everybody knows.

00:39:40.300 But while I was, when I had the accident, while I was in the car, in the hospital, they fired

00:39:45.200 me.

00:39:45.500 So, you know, when I got home, there was a, you know, a facsimile there that you've been

00:39:50.840 released from your contract due to blah, blah, blah.

00:39:52.640 And I'm like, I'm okay.

00:39:54.340 I'll be able to compete.

00:39:55.160 So I begged, you know, for them to keep me on.

00:39:58.240 So they, they instated half my money that I was making.

00:40:01.480 And I went and won the Ironman.

00:40:03.340 And then I won the Arnold Classic.

00:40:05.060 Okay, see, I mean, I took second in the Arnold Classic.

00:40:07.480 And, uh, I was like, yeah, yeah.

00:40:09.460 You know, I, I won my first pro show after my, breaking my neck.

00:40:12.580 And, you know, then I took second, you know, at the Arnold, he goes, we, we'd expect you

00:40:17.480 to do that.

00:40:18.140 You know, we expect you to win.

00:40:19.660 I go, look, I beat all these people who've been healthy all year round.

00:40:23.040 And I come back from this devastating accident.

00:40:25.520 And I was that good.

00:40:26.480 He goes, yeah, but we expect more from you.

00:40:29.120 I was like, wow.

00:40:29.820 So it took a whole nother, you know, at the Olympia for them to reinstate me a hundred percent.

00:40:34.340 So, um, you know, it's like a double-edged sword.

00:40:37.340 It's kind of like all great athletes.

00:40:38.940 And I'm not, I'm not calling myself great, but you, you look at their,

00:40:42.580 their best or a model, you look at their most beautiful or an actor or a singer, you

00:40:46.620 know, their best song and a measure to that forever.

00:40:50.220 So one rare thing is I kind of came close in a 90 percentile of my, my second show ever.

00:40:59.740 So it was nowhere, but either down or a little ways up from that.

00:41:04.860 So when I, I just like a, a biorhythm up and down.

00:41:07.960 So I was always compared to that instead of getting better and better and better, you know,

00:41:11.660 I came out, um, well, when Arnold class, when Arnold called me the, one of the best bodybuilders

00:41:16.460 in history, that was my second pro show ever.

00:41:20.100 So, you know, um, and then I was told I would never beat Dorian unless I'm bigger.

00:41:25.080 So I was like, what do you mean?

00:41:27.000 How do I do that?

00:41:28.520 You know, so first you're saying I'm one of the greatest.

00:41:30.940 Who said you can't be Dorian unless you're bigger?

00:41:32.920 Some, some judge.

00:41:33.740 I don't even remember his name, but I look back on that.

00:41:35.780 Was it a lot of people saying that?

00:41:37.120 Like, was it the, the.

00:41:38.040 It was a size game back then.

00:41:39.800 It had changed over.

00:41:40.900 Yeah.

00:41:41.000 I remember that.

00:41:41.500 I remember when Dorian became the first real.

00:41:43.920 Yeah.

00:41:44.340 Actually, it was Nasser.

00:41:45.720 Actually, Nasser.

00:41:46.420 Somebody.

00:41:47.180 Yeah.

00:41:47.440 Yeah.

00:41:47.640 He was the first freak at, uh, 280 pounds on stage.

00:41:51.420 Yeah.

00:41:51.920 And Momo.

00:41:52.880 Remember Momo?

00:41:54.000 Mohamed Benaziza.

00:41:55.620 He was about 5'2", and he weighed like 190, 210 pounds.

00:42:00.460 So it was a lot of mass monsters back then.

00:42:02.040 I think Dorian was the first in our era to do that.

00:42:05.680 And from then, you're chasing whoever the champion is.

00:42:08.900 And I think, you know, before they judged, you know, how good you were.

00:42:12.700 That's why a person like Frank Zane at 170 pounds can be the best in the world.

00:42:17.420 So, you know, um, it became more of a size thing.

00:42:21.860 I had a sales leader one time tell me this, and he made me really think.

00:42:26.880 And he said, I'm getting in.

00:42:29.420 I'm in the financial business, and I'm competing with these other guys.

00:42:32.260 And obviously, you've got a competitive nature, so you're kind of looking at everybody.

00:42:35.640 And I looked at this guy.

00:42:37.740 Degree.

00:42:38.600 Good market.

00:42:39.660 Good background.

00:42:40.860 Parents together.

00:42:41.980 I'm looking at all this stuff with him, right?

00:42:43.880 And I'm like, how the hell do I beat this guy, right?

00:42:48.040 And I'm like, man, I don't know if I can beat this guy or not.

00:42:50.600 And then this guy sits me down and tells me the most ridiculous thing and messes with my head flex.

00:42:55.460 Okay?

00:42:56.160 He says, Patrick, let me give you where your advantage is.

00:43:00.100 I said, tell me what it is.

00:43:01.640 He says, you don't have a market, so you have to learn how to prospect.

00:43:06.380 I said, okay.

00:43:07.340 He says, you don't have a last name, so you have to make your last name.

00:43:11.460 I said, you don't have a degree, so you have to read the books.

00:43:14.960 He says, you don't speak as good English as the other guys, so you have to improve.

00:43:19.560 He says, that guy is getting into this business.

00:43:22.900 He's going to beat you in the first 24 months more than you are.

00:43:26.920 But in the 10th year, maybe it's not going to happen.

00:43:29.740 But would you say there was an aspect of the game that it came way too easy to you because

00:43:35.260 you came in and you just, I mean, you know, you look at some of the pictures, Flex, it

00:43:40.400 doesn't even make sense what you look like.

00:43:42.420 Now, I think the greatest picture ever taken in bodybuilding, if you ask me, I mean, the

00:43:47.460 greatest picture ever taken in bodybuilding, I don't think there's a better picture than

00:43:50.780 this in bodybuilding.

00:43:51.800 I don't think there is.

00:43:52.440 I think this is by far the greatest picture taken in bodybuilding where you almost don't

00:43:58.080 think that this looks like a mythical God, like a Greek God from back in the days that

00:44:02.580 David is working on the statue.

00:44:04.780 Beautiful, thank you.

00:44:05.680 And this is it, right?

00:44:07.380 Yeah, Gary Phillips, a good friend of mine, took that photo.

00:44:10.200 And I wasn't even trying to pose.

00:44:12.620 I was getting ready to hit my next pose, which is that one there.

00:44:15.000 That's what makes it perfect.

00:44:16.700 That's what makes it like perfection.

00:44:18.940 Because to me, obviously, this is a great pose as well.

00:44:22.360 But Flex, I got to tell you, to me, this is in a whole different league than that one

00:44:27.420 when you look at the physique.

00:44:28.880 But going back to it, how do you process that question?

00:44:32.020 Like, do you think it was?

00:44:33.560 You're 100% right.

00:44:35.520 Because I was very ignorant to the sport and the history of it and how hard people had

00:44:40.320 to try to get there.

00:44:42.160 My first pro show was against Vince Taylor, and he was ranked number three in the world.

00:44:47.300 And I beat him minus one point from being a perfect score.

00:44:52.800 So in my mind, I'm thinking, okay, this is a fluke.

00:44:55.140 You know, he's dialing in for the Honor Classic next week.

00:44:58.260 That's when he's going to, you know, so he's a seasoned veteran.

00:45:01.140 And I end up competing against him and Lee La Brada.

00:45:04.840 So I got number ranked two in the world and number ranked three in the world.

00:45:08.360 And I beat them both with a perfect score.

00:45:11.180 And then I go to Germany and France, and I beat Vince again with perfect score.

00:45:14.860 So it did kind of happen easy.

00:45:16.980 And I just, like, okay, that's just the way it is.

00:45:20.420 You know, why work harder or why try to better yourself?

00:45:23.500 And 94 happened, I had a car accident, and it was a challenge from then.

00:45:26.800 But I agree with you on all points, including just my pure ignorance of the sport

00:45:32.460 and not really just understanding the gravity of being number one, Mr. Olympia.

00:45:39.800 I just, it didn't appeal to me.

00:45:42.360 I competed based on generating money.

00:45:45.140 I was poor.

00:45:46.240 I came from welfare, homeless, and all that.

00:45:48.200 So I just competed based on generating money.

00:45:51.600 And I knew in certain shows if whoever beat me before, so if it was Dorian or Ronnie,

00:45:57.080 if they wasn't there, I'm going to wipe everybody.

00:45:59.240 So I went to shows based on being able to generate money.

00:46:02.500 If I had to run into Dorian or to Ronnie, then I'd look at, okay, how much is second prize?

00:46:07.200 That's worth it.

00:46:07.880 Go in and shut that down and hold it in second.

00:46:09.740 Who was in your ear?

00:46:10.780 Because, like, was Joe in your ear?

00:46:12.480 Was Joe Weider in your ear?

00:46:13.920 Was there anybody like that in your ear saying, hey, Flex, I just want you to know,

00:46:17.740 go talk to this guy.

00:46:18.620 Hey, look, spend some time with this guy.

00:46:20.940 I need you to go over here.

00:46:22.160 Was there somebody kind of like course, you know, kind of giving you the direction

00:46:25.760 where Dean Smith to Jordan or Phil to Jordan?

00:46:27.800 Did you have someone like that?

00:46:28.860 No, because nobody knew it.

00:46:30.140 I wasn't honest about it back then.

00:46:31.840 I remember I came across extremely arrogant, you know, my swag.

00:46:35.820 I didn't know what that was.

00:46:37.900 But, I mean, I honestly created, now I understand that I created this alter ego,

00:46:43.060 Flex Wheeler guy because Ken Wheeler wasn't that guy, you know.

00:46:46.600 So I didn't know it.

00:46:47.940 So you didn't think you had to give me advice because, I mean, I'm just fully swagged out.

00:46:52.580 I remember somebody telling me, your ego and aura arrives an hour before you do

00:46:58.280 because you're so arrogant.

00:47:00.080 And it goes, when you walk in a room, we can just share arrogance.

00:47:02.620 And I understand that now because when I watch any of my videos of me talking,

00:47:07.020 I have to turn the volume down.

00:47:08.060 I can't stand it.

00:47:09.100 Just such an arrogant pompous, you know.

00:47:12.260 So I can't even listen to myself, so I get it now.

00:47:15.780 But it was all trying to hide the real person, you know.

00:47:19.600 I call myself the world's greatest chameleon.

00:47:23.800 So, yeah.

00:47:24.480 So, no, I didn't get advice like that because I came across arrogant and like I had it all.

00:47:28.360 So, yeah.

00:47:30.060 Yeah, I think in that game, like in the race car, you know, this painting right here where

00:47:36.540 you see me standing and whispering something in Tupac, there are guys standing right next

00:47:40.860 to me.

00:47:41.060 His name is Ayrton Senna.

00:47:42.580 To me, it's the greatest race car driver of all time from Brazil.

00:47:46.020 I named my daughter after his last name.

00:47:47.740 That's how much I love this guy.

00:47:48.800 I mean, I watch this guy's documentary.

00:47:50.120 It reflects.

00:47:50.400 I'm in tears.

00:47:50.860 I have to watch it by myself because I can't let my kids see this thing.

00:47:53.260 Wow.

00:47:53.580 It's very difficult for me to watch this guy's documentary.

00:47:56.860 And my wife and I got into a debate to want to name my daughter Senna.

00:48:00.740 And she said, we can't name our daughter after a race car driver.

00:48:04.320 I said, babe, forget about that for a second.

00:48:06.120 We have the baby.

00:48:07.000 Ten minutes, baby shows up.

00:48:08.860 Doctor's like, we need to get the kid's name.

00:48:11.020 I said, we don't have a name.

00:48:12.480 Nurse comes in.

00:48:13.180 I said, nurse, we got a name for you.

00:48:15.080 Madison, I give all the names.

00:48:16.380 I said, well, you can't name him Madison because the girl next door just named their kid Madison.

00:48:19.120 So, my wife's like, okay, great.

00:48:20.880 And then I said, Danica.

00:48:22.440 He says, you can't name him Danica because I read a book when I was younger and the main character was very evil and her name was Danica.

00:48:30.080 I wouldn't name her.

00:48:30.900 I said, how about Senna?

00:48:31.680 She says, that sounds like a flower.

00:48:33.440 There you go.

00:48:33.920 That's how we got the name.

00:48:35.660 Senna.

00:48:36.260 But in the documentary flex, it's he and another guy named Prost.

00:48:43.060 And Prost knew how to play politics and Senna didn't know how to play politics.

00:48:48.200 Senna was horrible at it.

00:48:49.100 By the way, Prost won five championships.

00:48:53.200 Senna won three.

00:48:54.220 There's no way Prost isn't Senna's league.

00:48:56.960 It's no debate about it, right?

00:48:59.120 I fully understand.

00:48:59.860 And Senna was horrible with politics.

00:49:03.000 Okay.

00:49:03.200 He just wasn't good with politics.

00:49:05.020 So, it hurt him all the time.

00:49:06.600 He said he would, you know, say, no, you didn't win this race.

00:49:09.040 No, you cheated.

00:49:09.600 No, you did this.

00:49:10.160 All this stuff to just kind of go against him.

00:49:11.600 To the point where he almost walked away from the game and said, forget about it.

00:49:14.280 I'm never going to race again, right?

00:49:15.360 I've been there.

00:49:15.700 How did you handle the politics side of bodybuilding?

00:49:20.380 Knowing if you fight somebody, you knock me out, you won the match.

00:49:23.420 But in bodybuilding, it doesn't matter.

00:49:25.700 How do you play that part of the game?

00:49:26.820 I didn't do well with that.

00:49:27.900 Because I come from, I won't say the streets, but I come from you are who you are.

00:49:35.700 You know, I come from if you stare at a person too long, they're going to look at you and

00:49:40.080 like, what's up?

00:49:41.480 And you say in return, what's up?

00:49:43.360 But you, there's no more words.

00:49:45.120 You walk towards each other and you're fighting.

00:49:46.720 That's it.

00:49:47.100 So that was really difficult for me because in magazines, you know, guys would say derogatory

00:49:55.200 things about you and me and my adolescence, I would want to go and hurt them.

00:50:02.360 I mean, you can't get away with talking about a kid down the street because he's going to

00:50:06.280 come holler at you.

00:50:07.380 Y'all heard you said something about me.

00:50:08.740 Now you got to fight.

00:50:09.980 So for me to hear and read people say certain things about me in a magazine and it's global.

00:50:17.100 So I'm like, wow, these people probably think I'm a punk.

00:50:21.680 And if they know that I'm, I was okay fighter, they're going to think this guy's really tough

00:50:26.260 because he's mouth and mouth.

00:50:27.320 So I didn't handle it well at all.

00:50:30.720 And then as far as magazines, they were pretty hard back then.

00:50:33.660 You know, they, oh, he looked as smooth as a baby's ASS.

00:50:36.680 That was very, very straightforward.

00:50:38.640 I want to go and hurt him.

00:50:40.380 You know, that was my thought.

00:50:41.740 So I didn't do well with it.

00:50:43.420 You know, a few meetings and so on.

00:50:47.900 I didn't do well because I didn't know how to play the game.

00:50:51.340 I thought you just respected by your merits of being a real man.

00:50:54.860 And it's not like that.

00:50:56.180 Business isn't like that.

00:50:58.000 Globally, it's not like that.

00:50:59.260 But at that time, coming from Fresno and me being skinny, skinny inside, I just didn't

00:51:04.360 see it, didn't see it.

00:51:05.380 So, you know, I wore my feelings on my sleeve.

00:51:09.460 You know, I'm very emotionally driven.

00:51:12.060 So if you hurt my feelings, I'm going to let you know it.

00:51:15.220 Tears would be coming out my eyes.

00:51:16.660 And I remember having to say to a lot of guys, hey, I can't control these, but I can control

00:51:20.920 these here.

00:51:21.700 And you're about to find out.

00:51:23.160 So they look at you and think, oh, you're a wuss.

00:51:25.280 You're crying.

00:51:25.780 Like, I can't do nothing about these, but I can do something with these.

00:51:29.640 So, you know, so yeah, it really hurt me.

00:51:34.280 And I look back at it and I just, now I'm okay with it.

00:51:38.060 I am who I am.

00:51:38.940 You know, for me, I have to be able to go home and look at myself in the mirror and say,

00:51:44.900 you're still a man.

00:51:46.480 You know, I couldn't believe in selling out for something more and being able to go back

00:51:52.240 and say, yeah, you're still a man.

00:51:53.540 Because for me, you're not, you're not a man if you sell yourself short or you got to

00:51:57.840 be phony in front of somebody's face.

00:52:00.280 Or even with Ronnie, people are like, do you regret telling Ronnie all the secrets?

00:52:03.800 I'm like, for one, they weren't secrets that were taught to me.

00:52:06.140 I go, but how can I consider myself a real champion when I know that I didn't tell them

00:52:11.400 everything I know and didn't do battle with them and know that, you know, he has some

00:52:16.060 artillery that he doesn't know how to use.

00:52:18.740 So, no, I don't regret it.

00:52:20.100 I want to compete against the best.

00:52:21.700 And if you get me, great.

00:52:22.880 See you next time.

00:52:24.000 You know, we're going to go at it.

00:52:24.900 But I just, I'm not wired that way.

00:52:26.920 I can't.

00:52:27.380 And if that means that I can't be number one or the best or the most richest, then

00:52:31.100 I'd rather, you know, I'd rather be me than not.

00:52:33.840 You know, I've talked to Phil.

00:52:35.100 I've talked to Dorian.

00:52:36.120 I've talked to Ronnie.

00:52:36.900 And I've talked to Brandon Curry.

00:52:38.220 Yeah.

00:52:38.600 I've seen all the interviews.

00:52:39.700 Yeah.

00:52:40.000 So, you know, some of the questions I ask.

00:52:41.640 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:52:42.140 And I'm more, because I run a business, this is an entrepreneur channel.

00:52:45.820 I've only done five bodybuilding videos.

00:52:47.500 We've got 1,100 videos.

00:52:48.560 They're all business and other things.

00:52:50.160 And I appreciate you even giving our lips on sport.

00:52:52.500 Thank you.

00:52:52.860 Yeah, I'm a fan of this sport.

00:52:54.300 I'm a big fan of this sport.

00:52:55.420 But I also look at it and I say, you know, something's got to change.

00:52:58.260 Because if it goes like this, I don't know how many more times you're going to be able

00:53:02.480 to afford to do the events at the arenas that you're doing at if you go the way you're going.

00:53:06.500 There's got to be something creative taking place.

00:53:08.280 How do you see the world of bodybuilding today versus a decade ago versus the era that you came out of?

00:53:15.140 What is the biggest difference?

00:53:16.260 One of the biggest difference I see is the ability to generate money.

00:53:25.780 The ability to generate money.

00:53:29.000 Before it was Joe, Joe Weider.

00:53:31.600 He was the only one who was handing out contracts.

00:53:34.040 And he pretty much had at least 20 of the greatest bodybuilders of all time under his table.

00:53:38.980 And it was amazing.

00:53:41.140 And then came along all the other supplement companies and it started to get frail.

00:53:47.560 They didn't have to offer money anymore to the greatest.

00:53:49.700 They started doing things like, I'll give you product.

00:53:52.300 Of course you're going to give me product.

00:53:53.580 You want me to use it.

00:53:54.660 So they started doing that.

00:53:56.340 And that started causing division, I think, amongst athletes.

00:53:59.380 Because for an athlete like myself, I'm trying to feed myself and take care of my family.

00:54:03.380 This isn't fun.

00:54:06.680 People get mad at me.

00:54:07.740 Like even Doreen would say, how could you say that?

00:54:09.540 I'm like, no, I do this for money.

00:54:10.920 It ain't a sport, man.

00:54:11.640 I pay my bills with this.

00:54:12.900 This is my job.

00:54:14.360 I wouldn't be doing this if I couldn't make money.

00:54:17.580 So it's really fragile things.

00:54:20.080 I think the internet is a double-edged sword.

00:54:23.240 It's beautiful because you can go out and you don't have to pay, what was it, like 20 grand for an ad.

00:54:28.840 You can advertise yourself for free.

00:54:30.920 But the other part of it is you can falsify things, camera angles, Photoshop that they have now with digital cameras and all that stuff.

00:54:43.180 So you can be make-believe also, which I still think is a craft because it's open to everyone.

00:54:48.780 So a lot of people get upset with what they call the YouTubers or the Instagrammers or whatever.

00:54:55.000 That field is open for everybody.

00:54:56.560 Go down.

00:54:57.120 It's an even field.

00:54:58.020 Get down.

00:54:58.860 So I'm not mad at them.

00:55:00.920 Now that you have all the various different federations, I think it's really took a change.

00:55:08.800 And there are some things that are happening in the background that I can't say but is really going to shake the sport to its core.

00:55:17.080 On the upside of it, a great thing that's about to happen next year, actually this year, is The Rock's going to put on his event in Atlanta.

00:55:27.340 And I think with his love for the sport, which I've talked to him privately back when he was wrestling, he just loves working out.

00:55:35.440 You can see it in his videos.

00:55:36.560 Dude, take a gym everywhere all over the world.

00:55:38.860 I mean, he loves it more than I do.

00:55:41.200 A lot more than I do.

00:55:42.960 So I think he...

00:55:43.440 He's good for the sport.

00:55:44.800 He's great for the sport.

00:55:45.780 He's very good for the sport.

00:55:46.060 He's great for the sport because I remember back in Arnold's days, Chevrolet and ESPN were all, they were sponsors.

00:55:52.400 Even during my era, ESPN was a sponsor.

00:55:54.780 We were on TV, national network.

00:55:57.240 You don't get that anymore.

00:55:58.040 So there's not a draw.

00:55:59.440 There's no ability to make money.

00:56:00.880 And at the end of the day, if you don't water the grass, it's going to die.

00:56:04.780 And I just don't think the sport was watered the way it possibly could have.

00:56:09.140 Marketing is everything.

00:56:11.480 It's interesting that you can have a little cartoon doll that looks like this, but me walking around like this is not viewed as good.

00:56:19.620 But your kid can play with a toy that looks identically like me.

00:56:22.720 That's a marketing problem.

00:56:23.900 You got to market that better and switch that around because it's acceptable, right?

00:56:28.420 We all have seen it.

00:56:29.300 He-Man, She-Ra, they're all basically walking images of us, but us walking around can't get on TV that way.

00:56:35.960 So that's a marketing problem that I think fell through.

00:56:38.240 So I think with The Rock and his power and everything that he's bringing can truly upside the sport and bring back where there's money in a sport.

00:56:47.460 And my last thing on that is, you know, when you want to be the best in the world, it doesn't have anything to do with health.

00:56:58.040 It doesn't.

00:56:59.120 It has to do with being the best in the world.

00:57:00.440 Now, if I want to take boxing at, I ain't going to say a gym's name and give him any props, but I want to take boxing at a gymnasium, that's healthy, right?

00:57:12.780 Cardio, boxing, that's not another.

00:57:14.680 Fighting Mike Tyson, that's not healthy.

00:57:16.320 It's not.

00:57:19.200 It's not going to be healthy.

00:57:20.280 It's not going to end well.

00:57:21.800 That's the difference between just doing something and trying to be the best in the world, okay?

00:57:26.240 If I want to go jogging, great.

00:57:28.760 Good for you.

00:57:30.080 But you see the guys at the Olympics, they're projectile puking while they're running.

00:57:35.220 You think they're healthy?

00:57:36.960 No, they're pushing their bodies to the outer limit.

00:57:38.700 It has nothing to do with health.

00:57:39.660 So there's a difference between trying to be the best in the world and just doing something for health reasons or whatnot.

00:57:46.060 I'm an extremist, and, you know, I try to be the best at what I can do.

00:57:50.560 But it can be marketed a certain way, and there has to be a difference in that.

00:57:54.040 So hopefully it swings back around and gets better because I truly feel that working out is essential to every sport.

00:58:07.480 I don't got to go play basketball to be a better bodybuilder.

00:58:09.960 They got to come to the gym to be better at their craft.

00:58:12.380 Interesting point.

00:58:13.720 I don't got to play football.

00:58:14.380 Very interesting point.

00:58:15.320 I don't got to run track.

00:58:16.240 I don't got to hit it, swim.

00:58:17.740 I don't got to have a tennis racket.

00:58:19.480 They all got to come into my world to get better.

00:58:21.940 So how can we not be the beginning?

00:58:23.940 That's crazy, Flex, what you just said.

00:58:25.760 How can I not?

00:58:26.500 Who's selling it that way, what you just said right now?

00:58:29.480 I've always said that, but I've never seen it again.

00:58:32.160 So how can all these other sports make millions, but they got to come into my world to get better at it?

00:58:39.120 But me and my world doesn't have to.

00:58:40.520 You don't have to go in their world.

00:58:42.080 No, and we don't get the same accolade that they get.

00:58:44.800 That's really ASS backwards, isn't it?

00:58:46.540 So you know what's crazy, what you just said?

00:58:48.580 So I get into the financial business, and I decided to go into insurance.

00:58:53.780 So I start selling insurance instead of stocks.

00:58:56.200 I'm serious, 766, but I decided to go insurance.

00:58:59.220 That's my niche, because you're looking at, at some point in financial within your first two to five years,

00:59:03.060 you're going to say money under management, you know, stocks, bonds, mutual funds, commodities, futures, real estate, or insurance.

00:59:11.360 I said insurance.

00:59:12.360 It's the direction I went, because everybody was chasing everything here, so I went this side.

00:59:16.140 Everyone, and all those other ones, they're going to need insurance.

00:59:19.640 That's exactly right.

00:59:20.200 But you don't have to be in one of those other ones.

00:59:21.740 That's exactly right.

00:59:22.740 So I went into insurance, and in the insurance side, I went and looked at everybody, how they told the story.

00:59:27.460 I said, the story's not being told properly about insurance.

00:59:30.260 It's just not being told properly.

00:59:31.940 Then we started telling the story in a different way than the industry was saying.

00:59:35.660 Then all of a sudden, boom, we go from zero to 13,000 agents, our conventions.

00:59:39.720 We just had a few months ago President Bush is at the event.

00:59:42.320 Kobe's there.

00:59:42.780 We got 7,000 people there at MGM, we're about to do it at the MGM.

00:59:46.000 That one was at Mirage.

00:59:47.200 Kevin Hart was at our event a year ago, year and a half ago, performing, comedian, at the top of his world.

00:59:51.980 We told the story in a different way.

00:59:54.080 I don't think today bodybuilding's being sold properly.

00:59:58.700 I don't know the ownership personally.

01:00:00.840 I want you to know I've been reached out by some of the management team, and we're having some conversations.

01:00:05.060 But I don't know the ownership of Mr. Olympia brand.

01:00:08.160 But either they have to sell 51% or bring somebody to start selling this thing to team up and bring in business people, the right voice, the right face, doing something to the game for it to change.

01:00:21.580 Or else, very soon, either Mr. Olympia is going to go become lower and lower.

01:00:27.280 Why would I put my body through for $400,000 a year income?

01:00:29.860 There you go.

01:00:30.180 I'm not going to do it.

01:00:30.800 There you go.

01:00:31.220 Or a rock going to take it over.

01:00:32.880 Or eventually an Arnold will get more attention classic.

01:00:36.680 I just think there's got to be something done to the Mr. Olympia brand because, like you said today, everybody else has to come to your world.

01:00:44.700 You don't have to come to their world.

01:00:46.040 No.

01:00:46.200 Who's today's Joe Weider, by the way?

01:00:48.720 I would say there is no replacement for Joe.

01:00:51.120 No.

01:00:51.800 There's no entity that is giving kids an opportunity to make a living in their sport without having to go out and work a nine-to-five on top of it.

01:01:02.420 There's no one who's doing it at the level Joe did.

01:01:04.900 He was an Alpha and Omega of that.

01:01:07.700 And now, understanding business and being behind it, he lost money every year.

01:01:12.820 Who did?

01:01:13.160 Joe did.

01:01:13.760 Joe did.

01:01:14.900 Lost money every year.

01:01:16.320 Walt Disney did too.

01:01:16.660 And he put so much into the Olympia that he literally lost money every year.

01:01:21.500 But it was his passion and his love for the sport.

01:01:25.220 That's the story of Enzo Ferrari.

01:01:26.860 That's the story of Walt Disney.

01:01:29.400 That's the story of any of these guys.

01:01:30.820 But look with the – it's short-term thinking versus – marathon versus a sprint.

01:01:36.580 That's right.

01:01:37.180 And they weren't thinking sprint.

01:01:39.040 Joe never thought sprint.

01:01:39.980 He always wanted his sport in the Olympics.

01:01:41.800 I actually didn't want to be in the Olympics, and I was against it because – I was wrong.

01:01:48.180 Okay.

01:01:49.240 I should have wished for it because, yeah, you're an amateur and you don't make any money.

01:01:53.400 But, wow, the money you can make after that.

01:01:56.220 I was just thinking short-term.

01:01:57.400 Olympics.

01:01:58.360 Exactly.

01:01:59.260 I was thinking short-term because I'll eat money now.

01:02:01.560 I don't want to compete in a show and put my body through the abuse and then hopefully someone like me and market me.

01:02:07.700 So, you know, I wanted immediate gains and gratifications because I had immediate bills and, you know, so on.

01:02:14.620 That's a good point.

01:02:15.520 But that's no replacement.

01:02:17.000 So there's no replacement or there's nobody like him?

01:02:19.660 No.

01:02:19.680 No one like him.

01:02:20.140 Okay.

01:02:20.380 So let's just say we can't replace him.

01:02:22.020 Fair.

01:02:22.740 It could be done.

01:02:23.800 Okay.

01:02:24.280 It could be done.

01:02:24.880 Are there personalities like him right now that you would say –

01:02:27.800 No.

01:02:28.100 If one – like, let me give you some names on what I'm saying.

01:02:31.540 Okay.

01:02:31.840 Like, Bill Phillips loved bodybuilding at one point, EAS.

01:02:34.520 You know, he was good with the whole contest promotion.

01:02:36.260 He was a marketer, by the way.

01:02:37.300 Bill Phillips is a ridiculous marketer.

01:02:38.920 You know that.

01:02:39.500 He is.

01:02:39.880 So Arnold was a great storyteller.

01:02:41.760 Oh, my God.

01:02:42.400 Look at his muscle.

01:02:43.280 I've never seen the separation like this before.

01:02:45.460 And you hear his voice.

01:02:46.320 Right.

01:02:46.540 His passion.

01:02:47.260 Like, he looks at, you know, body.

01:02:48.440 He's like, look at this guy's body.

01:02:49.640 So you were kind of like wanting to impress the guy because it's got to be a personality to do that.

01:02:53.920 Sure.

01:02:54.360 Is there anyone that we don't know about that maybe you know in your world to say, if that guy really wanted to come out or if this guy wanted to come out, he could do something?

01:03:01.260 Maybe a pre-Mr. Olympio or pre-somebody else.

01:03:04.060 Out of the two you mentioned, it would be Arnold.

01:03:05.900 And I think he hasn't been allowed to.

01:03:09.400 I've heard conversations that he wanted to make the prize money more and wasn't allowed to for various different reasons.

01:03:17.300 I think he super exceeded that by having, I forget how many, over 20 more sports than Olympics now.

01:03:25.800 He's achieved that in a different way.

01:03:27.240 I won't say that me and Arnold or friends were really close.

01:03:31.620 I remember, you know, going into the Nike store and he was there and I had won, I think, the Arnold twice.

01:03:39.540 I don't believe in impeding on people's private space, especially somebody like Arnold.

01:03:43.880 So I was walking around him.

01:03:45.580 He's like, hey, Flex, what are you doing?

01:03:46.880 Gave me a big hug.

01:03:47.740 Senator talking to me.

01:03:49.160 Long story short, I'm about to pay for my clothing and he's getting his for free.

01:03:54.540 He's just signing, you know, and he goes, you know, and he's very, I don't know if you ever talked to him, very quick wit.

01:04:00.120 I mean, wow, he's quick, right?

01:04:02.380 He goes, Flex, what are you doing?

01:04:03.580 I go, paying for my stuff.

01:04:04.580 He goes, no, what are you doing?

01:04:05.280 So I think he's about to go and joking.

01:04:07.460 I go, I'm paying, you know what?

01:04:08.940 You're paying for my stuff.

01:04:09.920 You pay for it on.

01:04:10.560 He goes, no, seriously.

01:04:11.860 What are you doing?

01:04:13.080 I go, Arnold, I'm paying for my shit.

01:04:14.700 And he looks at the lady, he cusses her out.

01:04:19.020 He said, get the manager down here right now.

01:04:21.340 The manager came down.

01:04:22.220 You know what this is?

01:04:22.860 It's blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

01:04:24.360 You got these god doggone football players and basketball players.

01:04:27.200 You give them a free gear.

01:04:28.080 You have any idea who this guy is?

01:04:29.960 Take it.

01:04:30.900 Threw the stuff back and walked out.

01:04:32.940 And right then, I understood where this guy is coming from.

01:04:36.880 This sport gave him everything.

01:04:38.520 He came here ass poor.

01:04:40.180 Gave him everything.

01:04:40.880 He believes in his sport.

01:04:42.060 Hence the reason why he puts on one of the greatest competitions.

01:04:44.700 In the world.

01:04:45.560 He's trying to better it because he gave him everything.

01:04:47.420 Everything he done spurned from this sport.

01:04:50.220 And I understood him fully.

01:04:51.440 And his inner city youth gangs that he goes and he's involved in.

01:04:55.340 He invited me to come and speak at one of those.

01:04:57.380 And worked some incredible words on a picture that he gave me.

01:05:00.040 So he identifies that.

01:05:01.880 The underdog.

01:05:03.220 A nobody.

01:05:04.120 You know, like he wrote in his book, he was beat up by his older brother.

01:05:07.000 And his dad didn't like him because he thought he was a weakling.

01:05:09.580 You know, so I get that whole entire thing.

01:05:11.680 So I think he has taken broad steps to try to change it.

01:05:16.260 Even talking about the bloated guts and how embarrassing it is.

01:05:18.820 And I think that made some changes the following year.

01:05:21.600 But anyone else?

01:05:23.220 No.

01:05:24.100 Not even on the radar.

01:05:26.540 Not on the radar.

01:05:28.220 Not in my knowledge.

01:05:30.280 If nothing happens, if nothing changes, what do you foresee happening to the brand in the next five, ten years?

01:05:34.680 I don't really see the sport dying because, like I said, it's the essence of everything.

01:05:41.100 I see an opening for people like The Rock or people who may have a greater global appeal being and coming in and settling down and doing something great with it.

01:05:53.080 Because it's a winner.

01:05:56.340 You know, like you said, you tell the story properly.

01:05:58.340 It's the truth.

01:05:59.220 You can't get it down.

01:06:00.280 I mean, you've got people who don't even give a damn about doing anything, but they come into my world as more of them than anybody.

01:06:07.920 Do the guys at Mr. Olympia call you?

01:06:09.520 Did they call you to talk to you?

01:06:11.840 Did they call you for counsel?

01:06:13.100 The guys that are running Mr. Olympia, ownership team, you know, CEO, CMO, are you talking to those guys?

01:06:18.500 No.

01:06:19.340 So you got out of your surgery in the last two months?

01:06:22.040 Oh, they, um, um, a few, a few reached out to me, um, a few reached out, uh, to me through other people.

01:06:29.040 Um, it was, people were aware that I was in a coma and I was in a hospital for, uh, for three months.

01:06:35.080 Um, so when I came to the Olympia, they threw out the red carpet, gave me VIP tickets, set me right up in front, uh, and everything.

01:06:42.780 And I was beautiful.

01:06:43.540 Um, and they were really gracious, um, you know, and, and since this happened, actually the, the new person who took over the Olympia, he actually came to the hospital and visited me after, uh, my amputee and everything like that.

01:06:55.680 Tremendous, tremendous.

01:06:56.280 And he sends me messages, you know, flex you, you know, same thing.

01:06:59.500 I think you're going to change the world based on what you, you're going through now and your mindset.

01:07:03.500 And, you know, I'm really happy about this.

01:07:04.540 Is this the new CMO that took over Mr. Olympia?

01:07:07.200 That, uh, Dan?

01:07:08.200 Yeah.

01:07:08.480 Okay, good.

01:07:09.160 That's, that's great to hear.

01:07:10.220 That's very great to hear for that to be taken place.

01:07:11.700 And me and Dan have always been close.

01:07:13.080 Um, he was actually, um, he was one of the major influences on, on me getting the, uh, Ben Reeder Lifetime Achievement Award, um, two years ago.

01:07:21.320 And he was the one who actually handed that out to me on stage.

01:07:23.760 So he's always been really nice.

01:07:25.820 Um, so a lot of the independents, Jim Mannion, uh, reached out through Robin Train, who's a friend of mine, and said, hey, let Flex know if he needs anything, let me know.

01:07:33.380 That's great to hear.

01:07:34.340 Yeah.

01:07:34.760 Um, the Lormus, who puts on the Honor Classic.

01:07:36.780 Yeah.

01:07:37.420 Uh, reached out to me and said, you know, Flex, uh, you know, bodybuilding community is behind you.

01:07:41.120 You know, we love you.

01:07:41.880 I want to invite you out as my special guest.

01:07:44.220 So he's bringing me out to the Honor Classic and he goes, you're getting VIP service everywhere and want you to hand out the overall, um, IFBB wheelchair award.

01:07:53.200 So, yeah, uh, beautiful support, um, beautiful support from my community and I graciously appreciate it.

01:07:59.060 I, I think that's very important to do to the alumni because that makes me want to represent the brand knowing they take care of the guys in the past who brought so much exposure to it.

01:08:09.780 I think it's a very smart move.

01:08:10.680 Any unique Joe Weider stories you have?

01:08:12.920 Any, any experiences with Joe yourself?

01:08:15.540 Yeah.

01:08:16.040 I mean, uh, so I was a bit of a hot hit and, uh, you know, combated.

01:08:21.060 And I remember, um, getting on the cover of Flex magazine a lot.

01:08:24.780 Uh, and Flex magazine, Flex magazines all over the world and other magazines covers all over the world.

01:08:30.060 But I never got a, a, a muscle and fitness cover and, uh, never, never, no.

01:08:35.540 And I remember talking to Joe.

01:08:36.840 I was like, Joe, I'm like, you know, how come I can't, you know, get a cover on muscle and fitness?

01:08:41.820 And he goes, Flex, and I think he was truly being brutally honest.

01:08:45.320 You know, he said, Flex, if I put you on a cover, I'm going to lose money.

01:08:48.860 I go, what do you mean by that?

01:08:49.980 He goes, I said, I'm on covers of various different magazines all over the world.

01:08:54.660 He goes, well, my logic is all over the world, you're not intimidating.

01:09:01.000 They don't see you that often.

01:09:02.720 You know, they don't see black athletes that often.

01:09:04.900 He goes, here in the United States, you're more intimidating.

01:09:09.140 So if I put you on a cover, you know, I feel that I'm going to lose money.

01:09:13.840 He flat out told you that.

01:09:15.120 Yeah.

01:09:15.420 And I said, well, I said, you know, Joe, I'm like, you know, there's some brothers that got money too.

01:09:20.940 I want to buy a magazine to see somebody who looks like me on there.

01:09:23.820 And he goes, okay, Flex, I'll do this.

01:09:26.840 I'll put you on a cover.

01:09:28.480 If I lose money, you pay me back the money I lost.

01:09:31.220 If I make money, I'll share the money that I won.

01:09:35.600 Pure business, guy.

01:09:37.620 Brilliant.

01:09:38.300 He goes, what do you say?

01:09:39.100 I said, no.

01:09:39.620 He goes, exactly.

01:09:44.960 He goes, exactly.

01:09:46.060 I can't take that risk.

01:09:47.360 So, but was he a guy you trusted?

01:09:48.940 Yeah, I do.

01:09:50.200 I do.

01:09:50.920 And I recognize the trials and tribulations he was going through.

01:09:55.780 And now I really recognize the financial strain that it caused him.

01:09:59.740 And I owe everything to him.

01:10:01.240 If it wasn't for that man, you know, who created this board and poured so much into it, I don't know where I'd be right now.

01:10:07.120 And I preached it.

01:10:09.500 That was a lesson.

01:10:10.140 I get it more now than I did.

01:10:12.280 And I even said, I said, Joe, you know, you're, you know, you're, you're, you're Jewish.

01:10:16.740 You know, you know how hard it is, you know, to be.

01:10:19.600 And he said, yeah, I am.

01:10:20.920 He goes, that's why I can't take that gamble.

01:10:23.780 You know, I go, but you can be the first of it.

01:10:25.580 I mean, you think he goes, I already offered you a deal.

01:10:28.420 Take it or leave it.

01:10:29.980 I had to say no.

01:10:31.780 Negotiator.

01:10:32.000 Yeah.

01:10:32.180 Non-stop negotiator.

01:10:33.580 You know, the way I look at it is maybe in a different angle and you can challenge me on this.

01:10:40.380 I think you have a certain level of wisdom others don't have access to.

01:10:46.720 And that's why sometimes guys like you become the greatest coaches of all time and mentors of all time and advisors of all time.

01:10:54.780 And you never know why this happened.

01:10:56.740 Like, why did I get dealt this hand?

01:10:58.580 Man, I could have been like, why are you doing this to me, God?

01:11:01.160 Like, put me out of this flippin' misery.

01:11:04.180 Like, why are you taking me here and then, what is this all about?

01:11:07.360 What is your, and then sometimes it's a bigger story and you don't know what it is because it's like, you know, for me, I don't know why I live the life I live.

01:11:16.980 Am I having a kid that's going to be a president one day?

01:11:19.080 What are you doing?

01:11:19.640 Why are you putting me through this stuff that I experienced with the war?

01:11:21.880 So then I have to kind of sit back and say, well, just rest and patient.

01:11:24.860 Maybe there's something going on here.

01:11:25.980 And you gain a certain level of lens that another person that doesn't have, that if you run into the next flex, you can give him direction.

01:11:33.200 And he has to take it from you because you have moral authority.

01:11:36.780 So he knows you're not coming from a place of motive.

01:11:39.400 You're coming from a place of wanting to give direction because I'm a big Tupac guy.

01:11:44.080 I don't know if you're a Tupac guy.

01:11:45.320 Of course I am.

01:11:46.000 I'm a big diehard Tupac guy.

01:11:47.840 Of course.

01:11:48.080 Of course.

01:11:48.820 He was a genius.

01:11:50.040 September 23rd, 96.

01:11:51.540 I don't know when it was when he passed away.

01:11:54.200 But for me, I think about it.

01:11:56.860 What if somebody else was in that guy's ear when he was younger?

01:11:59.580 What if there was somebody else that was, you know, speaking to him behind closed doors?

01:12:02.780 It was all the negative crap.

01:12:04.060 Yeah.

01:12:04.540 What if Antonio Brown has somebody else in his ear?

01:12:07.380 What if there was another person?

01:12:08.780 Like even as a, by the way, his agent today, I don't know if you saw what he did on that.

01:12:11.800 His agent today cut him.

01:12:12.820 He says, I can't do it until you decide to change yourself.

01:12:14.740 So his own agent.

01:12:15.780 So what if somebody's in Tupac's ear?

01:12:18.280 Tupac could have been a political figure today doing rallies.

01:12:21.660 So I look at you and I see life just getting started if you're able to channel your wisdom

01:12:30.320 because that's not worth, that's not only worth millions of dollars that you can't buy this.

01:12:37.400 It's a certain level of social capital experience that somebody has to extract out of you.

01:12:43.800 If you were to sit down with somebody and say, listen, let me just tell you, here's the

01:12:46.780 flaws and you seem like you're in a place where you're willing to talk about some of this

01:12:49.680 stuff.

01:12:49.740 Of course, 100%.

01:12:50.300 The value there, Flex, priceless.

01:12:54.280 The value there.

01:12:55.820 Then you got a Tyson story.

01:12:58.500 I put you, Tyson.

01:12:59.780 There's certain stories there that you look at the-

01:13:01.900 That's incredible for you to say.

01:13:03.960 I really appreciate that.

01:13:06.840 Yeah.

01:13:07.380 I believe everything, like I said before, happened for a reason.

01:13:10.920 And, you know, even to, you know, the amputee and everything that just happened a few months

01:13:15.840 ago.

01:13:16.900 I think they're all blessings.

01:13:18.180 And, you know, I understand it, but it's nice to rehear it because, you know, from just millions

01:13:26.600 of fans, you know, when this happened, it's like, you know, God only gives his greatest

01:13:30.720 battles to his turn against warriors.

01:13:35.920 So, it's tough.

01:13:39.040 Those are big time fights.

01:13:40.640 But I'd rather take on those.

01:13:42.040 So, I greatly appreciate what you're doing.

01:13:44.080 And I'm actually trying to home in those skills now.

01:13:48.460 A number of things that me and Dr. Reeves are doing now to try to home in those.

01:13:52.800 Because it's, for me, it's more powerful giving back.

01:13:55.780 I've had millions.

01:13:56.920 I've had cars and girls and houses.

01:13:59.160 And, you know, for me, because of the way I'm worried, those are just big black holes.

01:14:02.960 They just suck up and want more and more and more.

01:14:05.200 So, you know, I find that now giving back in those various different ways, whether it's,

01:14:09.720 you know, from me being, you know, suicidal or depressed or any of these battles that

01:14:14.380 I have, I think I've been able to go through those battles to turn around and hand them

01:14:19.280 some lemonade instead of lemons.

01:14:22.180 Because life is going to do you lemons no matter what.

01:14:24.420 So, my thing is, is if I can cope with these lemons that I've given in life and turn around

01:14:29.640 and share a cup of lemonade with you and serve it sweet, then you don't have to go through

01:14:34.980 what I went through, you know, and learn.

01:14:36.880 So, that's just a beautiful thing.

01:14:38.660 Money can't buy that, you're right.

01:14:39.800 There are certain things that you can do that just doesn't equal the money because we both

01:14:44.240 know major millionaires and so on who are most unhappy, you know, gutless, worthless people.

01:14:50.540 So, what does that really mean, you know, when you say that, you know, you have millions

01:14:53.540 or whatever.

01:14:54.440 You didn't tell me anything.

01:14:56.000 Actually, you told me a lot because if that's the first thing that comes out of your mouth,

01:14:58.900 you just told me you're piss poor morally.

01:15:00.880 So, you basically broke, you know.

01:15:02.880 So, but I greatly appreciate that.

01:15:04.920 Thank you so much.

01:15:05.580 That's my observation, man.

01:15:07.060 I think, you know, the guy sitting across from me was an 18-year-old kid who admired

01:15:12.120 you and looked up to your stuff and I couldn't believe that, you know, a human being can be

01:15:17.260 created with this perfect sex symmetry like this.

01:15:19.840 You know, the level of admiration a bunch of boys had like me growing up.

01:15:22.960 I don't think I've heard you fully comment on how you're processing the whole, you've

01:15:30.000 been through different challenges in your life.

01:15:31.720 Health, you know, a car accident, close calls, even life and death type of situation on one

01:15:37.340 of them with your neck.

01:15:38.140 I mean, that was not a regular thing.

01:15:39.540 And then now with this, how different is this than the other experiences you've had?

01:15:43.760 This is the most challenging, obviously.

01:15:47.880 You know, I've had probably, I stopped counting at like 60 surgeries.

01:15:52.280 A lot of them I didn't even come out in public and talk about.

01:15:58.380 Yeah.

01:16:00.320 Yeah, this is interesting.

01:16:02.560 It's hard to put into words, you know, it's nothing that's altered my life greater than

01:16:10.920 this.

01:16:11.400 And I think, you know, even my doctors were trying to be psychiatrists and help me.

01:16:16.180 They were trying to, you know, explain to me like, this is going to be a lot tougher than

01:16:20.560 you for most people because of where you come from and what you've done.

01:16:24.940 But it's an emotional roller coaster.

01:16:28.280 You know, it just changed your perspective and everything.

01:16:33.640 I remember doing a video and saying it's different looking at things four foot tall because when

01:16:38.140 I'm in my wheelchair, I'm about four foot high and everything is different.

01:16:42.880 You think about things that you didn't have to.

01:16:45.060 How can I get to the restroom, you know, in time, you know, being in public and toilets

01:16:50.400 are the worst in public, you know, what I have to carry with me to make sure I'm okay with that.

01:16:54.520 If I'm watching a movie or if I'm driving, you know, how quickly can I get to a bathroom?

01:16:59.440 Just things you don't think about, getting yourself dressed, all those things.

01:17:04.060 But what I take from it and where I get my strength is, you know, I was built for this.

01:17:14.640 Yeah, I was built for this.

01:17:15.620 I think every battle that I had emotionally and physically was preparing me for this one.

01:17:24.780 And I remember when I had to make the decision for them to take it because, like, you know,

01:17:31.100 it was a DVT that they found in February and I was in the hospital actually from March for

01:17:37.620 like four, three months.

01:17:39.400 I was in a coma for 10 days and the surgeries that they tried to do to save my leg, I knew

01:17:46.300 they weren't working.

01:17:47.620 So I was just in extreme amount of pain for the last, you know, five or six months.

01:17:53.540 It was just ridiculous.

01:17:54.540 So I remember going into the hospital after coming from a trip actually with my business

01:17:59.380 partner and I called my wife and I was like, you know, I think I need to go to ER when I

01:18:04.260 get off the plane.

01:18:04.800 And she's like, all right, I'll meet you there.

01:18:08.460 And they went in and did an ultrasound and said, okay, they came back like, you know,

01:18:14.100 the right side of your calf is 90% blocked and the left side is 100%, you know.

01:18:20.120 And she just said, you know, flex, nobody can make this decision but you.

01:18:23.140 And I was like, take it, just take it, you know.

01:18:26.400 But anyway, my point is, is I don't feel that I was allowed to do all these things on a global

01:18:31.920 scale and then go and hide.

01:18:34.800 When it's happened.

01:18:36.180 And that's why before they even, you know, took my leg, I went on Instagram and I was

01:18:40.720 talking about it because I'm like, you know, I want to be a, I want to be a spokesperson

01:18:44.760 for these people.

01:18:46.800 You know, I want to be a spokesperson for everybody who has disabilities because it's just, yeah,

01:18:53.640 you just don't think about a lot of things until you're there, you know.

01:18:58.000 And a lot of these people didn't have my platform.

01:19:02.340 So, you know, I've already discussed with my business partner, I want to open up a nonprofit

01:19:06.600 organization.

01:19:07.180 I want to help people get wheelchairs and amputees and just bring awareness and funds and

01:19:12.460 all that stuff.

01:19:13.280 And, you know, it's not about the money thing for me.

01:19:15.520 It's just, it's rough, you know, when you have, and I didn't understand it, to be honest

01:19:21.280 with you, because I made the call and I was fine with it and I was doing videos and I was

01:19:26.960 in a hospital and I told myself, I said, when I wake up after they take my leg, as soon as

01:19:32.280 I look down, if I'm okay with it, I'll be all right.

01:19:35.020 If I freak out, I'm going to have a bad fight.

01:19:37.540 When I woke up, I was like, I'm okay with this.

01:19:39.940 It was only until I got home and I woke up the next morning in my house, I have stairs

01:19:44.800 in it, and it just like, like the devil just was having his way with me.

01:19:52.100 Just a horrible thought.

01:19:53.240 So, wow, last time I was in my home, I had two legs, you know, looking at the staircase

01:19:58.820 and you never really look over the staircase.

01:20:01.660 You look at the stairs because you're walking at it.

01:20:03.480 And I walked to my balcony, I looked over the stairs, I'm like, Jesus, if I fall, and

01:20:10.120 it was just fear.

01:20:10.700 Every time I go up and down my stairs, I'm in fear, because if I fall, it's not going

01:20:14.540 to be good.

01:20:15.340 Every picture in my house, every thing that I bought, it had two legs.

01:20:21.100 And I come back down and it just really just wore me out.

01:20:23.900 Wow.

01:20:24.480 And I just had to tell myself, and I was really emotional, and I was sitting there with my

01:20:27.700 wife, and she was trying to console me, and she kind of backed up, she said, you know

01:20:32.000 what?

01:20:32.220 I don't even know what you're going through.

01:20:35.300 So she just went silent.

01:20:37.340 And I said, you know, baby, I'll be okay.

01:20:40.040 I go, but if I really want to sit in front of someone who's going through or went through

01:20:45.560 something that I went through, I got to go through this.

01:20:48.880 I got to go through the hells and the bowels of it deeply if I'm going to sit in front of

01:20:53.520 somebody else and try to help them and pull them out of this darkness, because every thought

01:20:57.940 comes to you.

01:20:58.860 Suicide, you're less than a man, you're half a man, you're not worthy, all those things.

01:21:03.220 So I'm like, I really have to deal with every ounce of emotional garbage to be able to truly

01:21:09.820 sit in front of somebody and help them.

01:21:11.320 If not, they're going to see I'm faking.

01:21:13.500 I'm going to lose them.

01:21:14.220 You know, so I really take it on as a blessing.

01:21:20.660 I mean, I don't want to be long-winded, but I really need to say this.

01:21:23.720 You know, in this picture, all the great things you said, you would think this guy just thinks

01:21:29.660 he's pristine.

01:21:30.960 His SHIT don't stink.

01:21:33.440 I was never happy.

01:21:34.940 Never.

01:21:35.860 Like I told you, I never walked on stage and thought I was good enough.

01:21:39.440 Always uncomfortable.

01:21:41.000 No matter what I wore, what I dressed in, my car, am I standing up straight, somebody

01:21:44.580 looking at me, never uncomfortable.

01:21:46.880 Since the first time I tried to commit suicide when I was 11 or 13, never comfortable.

01:21:52.280 For the first time in my life, I'm fully comfortable.

01:21:57.240 Don't bother me.

01:21:58.340 I don't hide it.

01:21:59.080 That's powerful.

01:21:59.580 And so for me, it's a blessing because the man upstairs loved me enough to bless me with

01:22:04.940 this blessing so that I can be happy.

01:22:06.420 I'd rather live 10 more minutes, the man I am now, than another 54 years of the person

01:22:12.360 I was there.

01:22:13.640 So it's a beautiful thing, and I can help people who really freaking need it, you know,

01:22:19.500 because you always look at them and wonder, what's their story?

01:22:22.360 And I see people looking at me, they'll look at me kind of like with pity or sorrow, and

01:22:25.420 I'm like, I'm the happiest man in the room right now.

01:22:28.660 You just don't understand, you know.

01:22:31.060 So it is rough.

01:22:33.880 And even today, this is the first time getting on an airplane.

01:22:38.180 Terrifying, you know.

01:22:40.180 And I actually got emotional because I went to the bathroom and just to be able to use

01:22:44.460 the toilet and have to stand on one leg and this, that, and another.

01:22:47.140 When I got back to my seat, I was just shook and, you know, just a lot of first-time experiences.

01:22:54.520 Terrified.

01:22:54.980 What if the plane goes down?

01:22:56.300 How am I going to get out of here?

01:22:57.680 Normally, I'm the first person on, you know, one of the first people on a plane and first

01:23:01.440 person off.

01:23:02.300 I had to be last this time.

01:23:03.600 Just a lot of things, you know.

01:23:04.980 So it is an emotional roller coaster, but I take it on with pride because I know I'll

01:23:12.240 be able to do some people a great service.

01:23:16.340 I think the level of impact you can make moving forward is going to be much bigger than the

01:23:21.320 impact you've made so far.

01:23:22.320 You know, I've heard that so many times, and I do believe it, but, you know, to hear something

01:23:30.420 that you already feel or know by other people kind of reinstates your feeling, and I truly

01:23:35.720 hope so because I don't.

01:23:37.360 I tell my kids this all the time.

01:23:39.000 I don't want to be known as a flex-wheeler, the bodybuilder.

01:23:41.140 Who gives a damn?

01:23:42.480 You're just an athlete.

01:23:43.220 That doesn't serve your worth.

01:23:44.780 Come on.

01:23:45.220 We know plenty of people who are millionaires, billionaires, athletes, and they're garbage.

01:23:49.640 I don't want to be known as an athlete.

01:23:50.680 I just want to be known as a person who is decent, who tried to help other people.

01:23:55.300 You heard what Phil Heath said.

01:23:57.420 He says, not flex-wheeler, the bodybuilder, but flex-wheeler, the man.

01:24:01.860 Yeah.

01:24:02.360 That's what I heard about.

01:24:03.380 So for a guy like that to say that, and Phil is also pretty proud.

01:24:09.220 He's very proud of who he is as well.

01:24:11.020 For him to say something like that, that's very powerful.

01:24:13.940 So some of the things I'm up to now, what has came to the table is like, you know, just

01:24:20.420 a pain.

01:24:21.060 I'm in pain 24 hours a day, even now.

01:24:24.100 It never goes away.

01:24:25.740 Not only the amputee, I have neuropathy in my leg and my hand, so it's just unspeakable

01:24:31.480 pain.

01:24:31.940 So I've been trying all these various different things.

01:24:34.400 And in the hospital, of course, I have them drug me out of my brain just to keep me out

01:24:37.840 of pain.

01:24:38.240 But once I came home, I'm like, I can't do that.

01:24:40.660 I got to own my brain.

01:24:41.620 You know, I just can't be a zombie.

01:24:43.900 So I've been reading up and hearing about CBD oils, and I've been trying a number of

01:24:47.740 different ones.

01:24:48.460 So I have the tremendous opportunity of coming out with my own line of CBD oils to help people

01:24:54.300 just with the pain that they're going through and stuff like that.

01:24:57.320 Again, like we talked about earlier, because now being an amputee and looking at things different,

01:25:01.640 just the comfort of a wheelchair and being able to get around.

01:25:03.900 So I'm releasing my own line of wheelchairs called a flex chair.

01:25:08.020 So electric chair folds is the most compact and powerful wheelchair that's out there in

01:25:12.840 the market right now.

01:25:14.520 We're in a process of devising a blood clot thinner.

01:25:18.020 So I lost my leg due to blood clot.

01:25:20.200 That comes along with a number, a slew of different other things.

01:25:23.380 So right now with my nutrition company that we're opening up, that's called Iconic Supplements

01:25:28.160 from the one picture.

01:25:30.140 But that's one of the things we're working on.

01:25:32.320 So a lot of various different things, you know, got a tour in Pakistan that I'm looking

01:25:37.400 forward to, a tour in India.

01:25:39.320 And those are some of my first tours that I'm good on doing.

01:25:42.480 So I'm just trying to open back up to the world that, hey, I'm available to start traveling.

01:25:45.920 So more so than anything, I'm just trying to create different business adventures that

01:25:50.780 actually help people more than, you know, myself because of so many things I've been through.

01:25:55.580 So some exciting times.

01:25:58.220 So 2020 predictions.

01:25:59.460 And you think Phil, you think Kai, you think these road and you think these guys are going

01:26:03.460 to come back and compete 2020 after Brandon Curry winning?

01:26:06.680 I don't know.

01:26:08.300 I don't think, I don't think Kai will because he's doing so much financially better out of

01:26:15.540 the sport.

01:26:15.920 And I've actually told Kai, you know, why would you ever come back?

01:26:20.980 You know, you're going to come back to allow certain people to have power over you when

01:26:25.940 you have endless power globally now and you have nothing to gain financially from it.

01:26:29.960 He's so financially strong.

01:26:32.000 Phil, I don't know.

01:26:33.140 So I think he easily come back and be at his best and win eight and possibly nine.

01:26:38.880 He still has it in him.

01:26:40.400 As an athlete, I don't know if he has it in him as a person because I know he's switching

01:26:43.760 over business wise.

01:26:45.480 And I haven't talked to him about this, but I just from his interviews and stuff that I

01:26:49.640 see he's doing, I think he's understanding I can make just as much or more money not having

01:26:55.960 to go through the hell that I look great, you know, continue looking great and continue

01:27:00.320 training, but I don't have to take it to that level of going on stage and I can make

01:27:04.740 more money than that.

01:27:05.720 And if you can, then why would you continue doing that?

01:27:09.160 And honestly, it just takes a certain mind frame that we have when we're younger to go

01:27:15.660 through hell and enjoy it.

01:27:17.980 You know, it's like having a lowered car.

01:27:19.860 That's, but you look good.

01:27:22.220 As a gentleman, I don't want a car like that.

01:27:24.340 I don't want something nice, comfortable, you know?

01:27:26.900 So I don't know if he has that ability to go back and hurt the way he needs to hurt to

01:27:32.820 win.

01:27:33.480 You don't know if he has?

01:27:34.640 I don't know if he has that in him anymore, you know?

01:27:37.460 And it's not to say that he's not a fighter, but you just, you have to understand competing

01:27:41.500 at that level, it's not going to be fun.

01:27:44.460 There's nothing fun about it, you know?

01:27:46.020 He still looks good.

01:27:47.140 He's forwarding.

01:27:47.680 He looks great.

01:27:48.880 He has so many.

01:27:49.820 Talent wise, can he do it?

01:27:50.680 Of course he could.

01:27:51.520 Talent wise, can Kai come back and wipe everybody at forward?

01:27:53.900 Everybody, of course you could.

01:27:55.560 But it's, it's whether you want that fighter or not.

01:27:59.440 And on top of that, whether Mr. Olympia brand wants them back, what are they going to do

01:28:03.760 for them to want to come back?

01:28:04.900 Because they've got to make it juicy for them to want to go put their body through it.

01:28:06.800 Yeah, because they'll make more money doing a couple appearances.

01:28:09.860 Of course.

01:28:10.360 And not even having to take it to the next level of dieting and everything else that comes

01:28:13.820 in detail with it.

01:28:14.640 So I've got to do this since I've been doing this with everybody.

01:28:16.420 I know, I know.

01:28:16.920 I'm waiting for it.

01:28:16.960 You know, this time is coming up.

01:28:18.480 So let's go through it.

01:28:19.780 So everyone's been brave to give their feedback and to put that adjective in there to kind

01:28:24.620 of a...

01:28:25.100 Brave, I know, I know you are.

01:28:26.160 So what do you...

01:28:26.880 We discussed this already.

01:28:29.260 Me and Dr. Reeves, we already discussed this.

01:28:31.560 Well, you know, so he stood up in the back like a signal of, hey man, you know, I don't

01:28:35.860 want you to go...

01:28:36.640 I noticed he stood up and kind of moved forward a little bit.

01:28:38.480 Remember, we talked about this.

01:28:40.100 So what would you say with these guys versus your era?

01:28:43.220 You've heard Ronnie, you've heard Dorian.

01:28:45.380 Oh, you got Dre on there?

01:28:46.740 Oh yeah, I got a lot of stuff.

01:28:48.280 I'm diffusing, I'm switching the...

01:28:50.000 I know you are, but I'm going to come back to it.

01:28:51.700 Okay.

01:28:54.100 What's your question?

01:28:55.260 So these guys compared to you, compared to your era?

01:28:59.120 I mean, I got to be honest, no.

01:29:01.580 No.

01:29:02.640 No.

01:29:02.920 No.

01:29:02.980 I mean, I competed with two of them and Dexter out of, except Brandon, Dexter was the first

01:29:13.960 to win Olympia.

01:29:15.620 And when we competed on the same stage, I think I was like first and he was like 10th, you

01:29:20.740 know, so it was just different.

01:29:23.120 Yeah.

01:29:26.240 Where would they, where would this be in your era?

01:29:29.460 You saw what Ronnie and Dorian said.

01:29:31.520 Where would they rank?

01:29:32.720 Would they compete with the, with you guys, Osombati, Sean Ray, LeVron, Cormier, would

01:29:39.360 they compete with those guys?

01:29:41.760 No, I would have to probably say not, not like I just demonstrated, you know, Dexter didn't

01:29:49.600 throw that well against us.

01:29:52.460 No, it's just kind of, it's just kind of different, you know, and I don't mean any disrespect to

01:29:57.480 these gentlemen.

01:29:57.900 I know all of them and I consider myself, you know, very cordial with all of them.

01:30:02.700 It's not a personal, you know, and I can't laugh about it because it's not funny because

01:30:08.200 you're being honest about men who are working really hard.

01:30:11.340 But no, it's, it's different.

01:30:14.260 And I think if you were to ask any of those gentlemen, they would probably say the same.

01:30:18.800 Do you think it's fair for Roley, the argument he made?

01:30:21.560 He says it's kind of unfair for the old timers to go at Brandon Curry and say what they're

01:30:26.800 saying.

01:30:27.060 This is a different era.

01:30:28.060 Kind of like, you know, how they compare basketball.

01:30:29.600 Do you kind of agree with what he's saying?

01:30:31.100 I agree with him because, you know, it's about getting your point across but not being harsh.

01:30:37.440 There's no need to be harsh or malice or hurt a person's feeling, you know, so that's why

01:30:43.200 I'm being very cordial and persuasive with my words instead of saying, yeah, they can't

01:30:48.600 compete with their garb.

01:30:49.500 It's no, these men are champions.

01:30:51.260 It's just a different era and it's not fair to compare them because we're not in that era.

01:30:55.780 And you know what?

01:30:56.640 It doesn't matter because this man right here and this man right here has Olympias and I

01:31:01.400 don't.

01:31:01.740 So who gives a damn, right?

01:31:03.780 Because they are Mr. Olympians and they'll go down as known as Mr. Olympians.

01:31:06.860 So what difference does it make?

01:31:08.640 They won Mr. Olympians in their era.

01:31:10.660 So they're the best at their craft during that time.

01:31:13.940 And definitely, Roley is definitely considered one of the best.

01:31:16.700 I mean, it's amazing.

01:31:18.180 I want to say this because he gave me one of the greatest comments ever.

01:31:21.160 You know, it was a video and he said, you know, I think if I want to be anybody building

01:31:24.780 a world, I'd be flex.

01:31:25.940 He was just flawless.

01:31:26.640 If I could be anybody, I'd be him.

01:31:28.220 And for Roley to be as massive and in shape and to say that, I just had to say that.

01:31:33.480 I had to send him a message like, wow, man, thank you.

01:31:35.160 That is, wow.

01:31:36.220 That's cool.

01:31:36.860 Yeah, so.

01:31:38.060 And by the way, Brandon Curry, I got to tell you, what a classy guy.

01:31:42.680 A hundred percent.

01:31:43.200 You know, what a classy guy.

01:31:45.480 Just came here, you know, I'm like, and the way he handled it because it's the pressure

01:31:50.140 and who wants to do that after you just won and come in and I'm like, you know, he agreed.

01:31:55.540 I've seen his interview.

01:31:56.360 I've even seen his interview after what Dorian said.

01:31:59.160 Yeah.

01:31:59.920 To me, I think he gained respect.

01:32:02.140 I'm not saying, you know, points on who's the greatest, all this.

01:32:05.120 I think he gained respect.

01:32:05.880 As a man and a person.

01:32:06.680 I think he gained respect.

01:32:08.180 I've been knowing Brandon forever.

01:32:09.500 Actually, when he was an amateur, I was covering him and I gave him the nickname, Soul Brother

01:32:12.960 Number One.

01:32:14.260 Soul Brother Number One.

01:32:15.040 Because if you look, he looked like a character from Shaft or something like that, right?

01:32:18.620 So what he's been able to do in his vision and his thought and self-belief in himself

01:32:24.520 paid the way for him to be the man he is now and the champion.

01:32:27.500 We're at the end of it.

01:32:28.340 I got a couple of things I'm going to show you.

01:32:29.940 I'm going to show you a video here and then I'll do a speed run and we'll be done.

01:32:33.500 Okay.

01:32:33.720 Okay.

01:32:33.900 So when you see these pictures, what do you think about?

01:32:37.800 Trying to be like Prince.

01:32:39.180 Trying to be like Prince with the hair?

01:32:40.640 Prince got the women, man.

01:32:41.920 I mean, come on.

01:32:42.800 So you were a Prince guy.

01:32:43.900 Oh, hell yeah.

01:32:44.720 Yeah.

01:32:45.000 A hundred percent.

01:32:45.480 Only concert I ever went to in my entire life.

01:32:48.120 To this day, Prince.

01:32:49.340 How are you on the right?

01:32:51.780 Just a kid who's trying.

01:32:54.640 Are you 20 or are you 20?

01:32:57.840 I'm 20.

01:32:59.400 Yeah.

01:33:00.420 I think that's after I went to Cal.

01:33:02.320 So yeah, I'm about 22 there.

01:33:04.800 22, 23.

01:33:06.420 I just looked at that kid and said, you know, you have no idea what's out of you, son.

01:33:10.220 You know, I feel bad for you in some ways and good for any other.

01:33:14.500 Only concert you've been in is Prince.

01:33:16.020 I caught that.

01:33:16.560 That's pretty sick.

01:33:17.360 The only one you've ever been in.

01:33:18.320 Hey, man.

01:33:18.840 Did you ever see Michael Jackson perform or no?

01:33:20.920 No, I never got to see him perform.

01:33:22.460 So, you know, Michael Jackson, like I never watched Michael play, Michael Jordan.

01:33:25.640 I never watched Michael Jackson perform.

01:33:27.040 But Prince is one of the legendary performers of all time.

01:33:29.880 So what do you think about when you see this guy?

01:33:33.800 Just innocent, man.

01:33:34.960 I won my first Honor Classic and I had no idea of what it even meant.

01:33:38.440 I just knew what the check was.

01:33:40.320 That's it.

01:33:41.060 What did you do afterwards this night?

01:33:43.720 I went to my room and ate pizza.

01:33:45.360 That's it?

01:33:45.760 Yeah.

01:33:46.060 Just went and ate pizza and that was it.

01:33:47.820 No way to celebrate.

01:33:48.980 Yeah.

01:33:49.360 And I had to forget about it.

01:33:50.420 I remember telling myself, that's who Kib's the damn.

01:33:52.620 You know, you got a show next weekend.

01:33:53.900 You're going to get the floor mop with you if you want to party about what you did a few hours ago.

01:33:58.320 This picture, this doesn't make any sense to me when I see this picture of you.

01:34:02.200 Like, I know it's probably not the, this picture is like, you know, this looks like a statue with the deaf.

01:34:11.720 I mean, that's just insane right there.

01:34:13.100 I don't know how I achieved that because I didn't know anything about dieting.

01:34:15.940 I didn't know anything about dieting whatsoever.

01:34:18.240 Paul, what do you think about this when you see this?

01:34:19.980 It's just ridiculous to me.

01:34:21.460 I'd go home and cry.

01:34:25.420 This one is a classic one.

01:34:27.640 Just us doing battle, man.

01:34:29.120 Three of the greatest of all times.

01:34:30.700 And we were just deeply friends.

01:34:32.840 We had tremendous respect for each other.

01:34:34.760 But, man, we tried to take each other's head off on stage.

01:34:37.420 And then hugs and smiles afterwards.

01:34:39.460 Any stories of Kevin we don't know about?

01:34:41.180 Any unique stories of Kevin?

01:34:42.460 I said it before.

01:34:43.380 Kevin, you know, we had a lot of respect for each other.

01:34:45.700 He beat me in the Nationals.

01:34:47.220 He turned pro before I did.

01:34:48.360 And I hated him for it.

01:34:49.760 And I chased him.

01:34:51.080 And I ended up beating him at the first Honor Classic.

01:34:53.800 And back then it was just magazines.

01:34:56.540 And he would always be mouthy in the magazines and all that.

01:34:59.360 And he said, Flex, I hear you knock, but you can't come in.

01:35:02.280 And I said, you know, Kevin, I don't knock on doors.

01:35:04.640 I knock him over.

01:35:05.460 Watch out.

01:35:06.220 You know, so we're just, but it was all beef talk.

01:35:08.380 I mean, when we got together, it was nothing but mutual respect.

01:35:10.840 How's he as a guy?

01:35:12.240 Great.

01:35:12.900 Tremendous, tremendous, tremendous, tremendous.

01:35:14.720 I think a lot of you, I don't know personality-wise with how he is, but Hollywood, you know, a

01:35:20.220 lot of good-looking guys.

01:35:21.480 And he could have been a, you know, a lot of these guys you see right now that are bodybuilders

01:35:25.860 and they're fighters and they're movies now because they had physiques.

01:35:28.420 There's a lot of guys that are doing that.

01:35:29.720 Yeah.

01:35:30.120 Yeah.

01:35:30.460 You know, there could have been some opportunities there for him.

01:35:33.040 This video here, okay?

01:35:34.860 I'm nervous.

01:35:35.360 When you, when you think about movies, how many, you know, in movies they, they, there's

01:35:40.020 all these bodybuilders, there's all these Mr. Olympias, but in this movie, they quote

01:35:45.160 shoe.

01:35:45.780 I mean, it's, it's...

01:35:46.500 John Q.

01:35:47.540 John Q.

01:35:48.720 Jeez.

01:35:49.080 Alex Willen, 275 pounds, 2% body fat.

01:35:56.040 Yeah.

01:35:56.800 Yeah.

01:35:57.800 Yeah, baby.

01:35:59.760 It was amazing.

01:36:00.920 Actually, the director of the movie was the brother of one of my trainers.

01:36:07.160 So in that movie, remember Danzel got shot.

01:36:11.320 One of my trainers was a person who shot him.

01:36:13.980 In the movie?

01:36:14.640 In the movie.

01:36:15.400 And his brother was the director of the movie.

01:36:18.020 So how that happened was he was training his brother and then I would train afterwards.

01:36:22.820 And sometimes he would hang over and watch.

01:36:25.120 And after about a year, his brother said, wow, you guys are amazing.

01:36:29.840 I got to give tribute to you guys somehow.

01:36:31.580 The hard work.

01:36:32.220 You just, just look at you.

01:36:33.580 You don't think of that.

01:36:34.660 And then he came back and he asked me, he goes, Flex, I have this movie.

01:36:37.240 Can I use your name and likeness?

01:36:38.480 And I'm like, yeah, sure.

01:36:39.240 So they ask you before they use it.

01:36:40.820 Yeah.

01:36:40.840 Yeah.

01:36:41.060 Yeah.

01:36:41.220 Yeah.

01:36:41.340 His brother did.

01:36:41.940 And I just, I couldn't believe it because I had been through a car accident.

01:36:46.600 So I was eager to watch the movie and it started off with that horrific car accident and it

01:36:51.260 grabbed me because I'd been through.

01:36:52.720 So, and I have a son.

01:36:54.480 I have two sons.

01:36:55.480 So what would you do for your, your, your, your, so the movie just hooked me.

01:36:58.960 It wouldn't let me go.

01:37:00.480 Yeah.

01:37:00.980 Yeah.

01:37:01.280 Amazing.

01:37:01.980 But, um, that's just beautiful, man.

01:37:04.560 Just again, you know, to end it by, you know, saying just to be, you know, accepted for your

01:37:10.440 craft and what you've done and, uh, not viewed whether you're black or white or straight or

01:37:15.240 gay or anything.

01:37:16.380 I think everybody in the world is striving to do that in their various different ways.

01:37:21.440 So to be respected that way and somebody think I have some self worth or value is just, uh,

01:37:27.520 from this little kid that come from the ghetto in Fresno is just, you know, how many posters

01:37:33.020 you've been on, how many walls you've been on, man.

01:37:35.000 Like how many kids like, that's not just a movie scene, man.

01:37:37.700 That's like real lifetimes, millions.

01:37:40.240 This last one here I want, since we're doing this, this is your guy and here's what he says

01:37:44.380 about you.

01:37:45.140 Okay.

01:37:46.120 I want to see what you think about when you listen to this.

01:37:47.820 You know what's crazy about Flex?

01:37:49.840 Everybody views him as one of the greatest bodybuilders.

01:37:54.040 Never.

01:37:54.620 Ever.

01:37:55.160 Yeah.

01:37:55.400 Everybody.

01:37:56.020 Yeah.

01:37:57.000 Yeah, me too.

01:37:57.900 Who are your top five?

01:37:59.420 See, I got Arnold, I got Lee, I got Phil, Flex, and Kevin.

01:38:06.340 Ahead of Dorian?

01:38:07.300 Like you wouldn't put Dorian ahead of Flex?

01:38:09.320 No, no, I got Flex ahead of me.

01:38:12.600 Jesus.

01:38:13.800 What's the biggest difference for you from Kevin and Flex's physique?

01:38:17.820 Flex had better shape.

01:38:20.000 He had better shape.

01:38:21.100 Yeah, I think Flex had better shape than me.

01:38:23.460 Are you in contact right now with Flex?

01:38:25.000 Yeah, my best friend in the world.

01:38:26.560 Yeah.

01:38:27.820 Just was texting him yesterday, he just had surgery again.

01:38:30.600 Can't believe it.

01:38:32.180 You know, again, like I said, I don't think anyone's ever going to beat what Ronnie brought

01:38:36.920 to the table.

01:38:37.660 They might beat his number, but you can't take a best of all time pitcher and match it up

01:38:44.580 against him and be defeated.

01:38:47.320 And we just always hit it off.

01:38:50.240 We were always friends.

01:38:51.460 And our friendship really, truly was tested when he turned around and beat me for the first

01:38:56.900 time, because that's when he found out what was really going on, right?

01:38:59.680 And we just stayed the test of time.

01:39:02.180 And I just want to give him a shout out.

01:39:04.280 He just had a hip replacement again, you know, just yesterday.

01:39:07.540 And we talked, you know, we've both been through some extraordinary pain.

01:39:11.740 And I'm like, man, I'm bleeding for you.

01:39:13.200 He goes, no, it's okay.

01:39:14.280 You know, it's okay.

01:39:15.120 He goes, I still haven't caught up to you on your surgeries.

01:39:17.800 I'm like, you don't want that record.

01:39:18.880 He goes, no, I don't.

01:39:20.180 He goes, I don't want that record.

01:39:21.460 So, wow.

01:39:22.980 He's another humble guy, man.

01:39:25.040 Here's a guy that can be cocky.

01:39:27.220 Just a humble guy.

01:39:28.560 Yeah.

01:39:28.880 That you like.

01:39:29.820 Quick, quick speed run.

01:39:30.860 I'll give you some names.

01:39:31.660 Tell me the person that comes to mind.

01:39:32.840 Dennis James.

01:39:34.220 True friend.

01:39:35.360 By the way, he sent me the link.

01:39:36.640 He says, Pat, I watch your interviews.

01:39:38.720 Here's what we're doing for Sultan with the GoFundMe.

01:39:41.080 And that's when we put, we supported.

01:39:42.780 But he was, just so you know, he's the one that reached out.

01:39:46.040 Nobody else.

01:39:46.920 Dennis is the one.

01:39:47.640 I don't know if you know this.

01:39:48.400 You need to know it.

01:39:49.060 I didn't.

01:39:49.460 Dennis sent a message and then we shared it.

01:39:51.220 Or else we wouldn't know about it.

01:39:52.220 Yeah.

01:39:52.460 Wow.

01:39:53.080 Wow.

01:39:53.960 One word.

01:39:54.900 Doreen Yates.

01:40:04.180 Just competitive.

01:40:07.600 You know, during this era on stage, unbreakable.

01:40:11.280 Unbreakable.

01:40:11.880 Yeah.

01:40:12.160 Lee Priest.

01:40:14.460 Wow, Lee.

01:40:17.180 Jack of all trades and a master of many.

01:40:20.080 And a master of many.

01:40:21.280 Yeah.

01:40:21.540 Paul DeLette.

01:40:24.580 Didn't get his due.

01:40:26.120 Just if he was competing now, he would be unbreakable on stage.

01:40:30.480 There would be nobody who can do anything about it.

01:40:31.920 Interesting.

01:40:32.600 Yeah.

01:40:32.840 Very interesting.

01:40:33.660 Yeah.

01:40:34.120 Nasser Al-Sambati.

01:40:36.240 Tremendous friend.

01:40:37.440 I remember the first time competing against him when he turned pro and just tragic loss

01:40:41.740 to our sport.

01:40:42.400 Aaron Baker.

01:40:43.400 Aaron Baker.

01:40:44.360 God, Batman.

01:40:45.180 The true Batman.

01:40:47.580 It always broke my heart.

01:40:50.300 Aaron was top ten in the world and he always had to work two jobs.

01:40:55.520 He never got a fair shake.

01:40:56.620 And I know he was always upset about the one show I beat him in right after my car accident.

01:41:02.240 But just, you just have no idea how gifted that guy was.

01:41:06.100 He could draw.

01:41:06.860 I remember him doing fencing against pros in a goes gym parking lot.

01:41:12.000 Fencing?

01:41:12.740 Fencing.

01:41:14.360 Wow.

01:41:15.000 And they were going to bring him on a team.

01:41:17.180 Wrestling, everything.

01:41:18.120 Just, just amazing.

01:41:19.400 Yeah.

01:41:19.620 True Batman.

01:41:20.600 Cormier.

01:41:22.460 Wow.

01:41:23.420 True friend.

01:41:25.280 One of his strongest bodybuilders I ever trained with.

01:41:27.480 The strongest bodybuilder I ever trained with.

01:41:28.960 Don't mess with him.

01:41:29.720 I heard six plates on incline.

01:41:31.280 Yeah.

01:41:31.460 I heard some stories like that.

01:41:32.540 Don't mess with him.

01:41:32.640 Don't mess with him when it comes to trying to out, out, out, out train him.

01:41:36.500 Sean Ray.

01:41:38.140 Sean Ray.

01:41:39.740 Jeez.

01:41:40.420 I already gave it away with my facial expression.

01:41:43.020 You know, tremendous athlete.

01:41:46.880 Very on top of this game as a business person.

01:41:49.880 Someone I looked up for years and wanted to emulate and taught me a lot in the sport.

01:41:55.520 Safe.

01:41:56.060 You should run for office.

01:41:57.520 That was good.

01:41:58.640 Chad Nichols.

01:42:00.840 Chad Nichols.

01:42:01.480 Wow.

01:42:02.520 Not sure where I'd be without him.

01:42:05.100 Yeah.

01:42:05.740 Taught me a lot.

01:42:07.940 In the age of gurus, he taught me that play.

01:42:12.440 Alex, you know more about you than me.

01:42:15.080 The only reason I can help you is if you understand your body well enough to explain it to me that I can give you advice.

01:42:21.880 What a way to put it.

01:42:23.240 Yeah.

01:42:24.320 Powerful.

01:42:24.540 He's like, you're with yourself 24 hours a day.

01:42:26.600 I'm not.

01:42:27.940 Yeah.

01:42:28.580 Jay Cutler.

01:42:30.200 True champion.

01:42:31.460 Businessman.

01:42:32.100 Great person.

01:42:34.100 Love him a lot.

01:42:34.960 Great guy.

01:42:35.560 Great guy.

01:42:36.220 Mike Matarazzo.

01:42:39.240 Mike was a very close friend.

01:42:41.100 We traveled the world together.

01:42:44.180 Just tremendous loss.

01:42:45.520 Just broke my heart when he passed.

01:42:49.300 But man, we had some great battles together.

01:42:51.860 Incredible champion.

01:42:52.760 You guys were on.

01:42:53.280 You were good on ESPN, by the way, too.

01:42:55.180 Yeah, yeah.

01:42:55.700 I'm going to beat you, Mr. California.

01:42:57.320 All this stuff you guys were doing.

01:42:58.600 Yeah.

01:42:59.080 It looked like you guys were having fun.

01:43:00.260 Lee Haney.

01:43:01.640 A man's man.

01:43:02.760 A champion's champion.

01:43:07.000 You never heard him say nothing bad about anybody.

01:43:09.400 Been married to the same woman since high school.

01:43:12.080 You don't hear nothing negative.

01:43:13.440 That's crazy.

01:43:13.900 In every sport, every business, you hear, you never hear nothing bad about anybody.

01:43:18.460 Respect.

01:43:18.680 Just a champion's champion.

01:43:21.800 Sergio Oliva.

01:43:23.680 I met him before he passed.

01:43:26.780 And he was always just an amazing person and force.

01:43:35.780 And just to hear his story.

01:43:36.940 And my first Olympia, when I was going back into the hotel, it was him who opened the door for me.

01:43:43.060 I was like, oh, my God.

01:43:45.040 You know.

01:43:46.220 And he goes, Flex, you won that show.

01:43:50.380 Don't let nobody tell you different.

01:43:52.060 You won that show.

01:43:53.740 I was like, I don't care about that, man.

01:43:55.360 I just met you.

01:43:56.220 You know, can I shake your hand?

01:43:58.120 And now I'm having the honor to be friends, you know, with his son who's just carrying a torch for him.

01:44:03.540 Just, you know, there's people who are anchors in business or sports or life.

01:44:11.060 And he's truly an anchor in our sport.

01:44:14.300 Brother, this is, it's felt like five minutes, but I think it's been two hours.

01:44:18.420 I don't know exactly what the time's been.

01:44:20.500 And it's felt like five minutes to me because the conversation's been just purely fascinating going through, you know, history with you.

01:44:26.560 I appreciate you making the time to come out and sitting down here with us and opening up, talking to us, just sharing us with where your heart's at.

01:44:35.480 And I hope all the listeners that are listening in, if in the future you ever want to come back to talk any other bodybuilding, any other story, man, you're always open to come back here.

01:44:46.160 Truly, pleasure having you as a guest, man.

01:44:47.960 Appreciate you.

01:44:48.420 First and foremost, it takes people like you for even people like me to be noticed.

01:44:54.940 So, you know, kudos go to you first for even having interested in our sport, for even thinking that I have anything of value to talk to on your tremendous outreach that you have.

01:45:05.640 So, being able to sit here in front of a person who comes from a whole different background and him having an interest in me is just, it's solidifying.

01:45:15.260 It makes you feel, you know, you're worthy.

01:45:17.560 So, you know, thank you so much in the time and effort that you put in all this to have such a premiere show.

01:45:22.660 So, it's, what you don't understand is, what most people don't understand is, the honor is really mine because I get to go to different parts of the world and I'm just accepted for me as a person.

01:45:36.940 And, you know, you being Persian and all that, you know what that's like of being accepted.

01:45:41.720 So, again, you know, I'll end it with just the honor is mine just to be accepted for my strengths, my weaknesses, my setbacks, my shortcomings and all that is just, yeah, I can never thank people like you, you know, enough who thinks that I have something to offer.

01:45:57.680 So, yeah, it goes back to you, Tim Full.

01:46:02.640 Impact with you is just getting warmed up, man.

01:46:04.940 I'm telling you, it's just getting warmed up.

01:46:06.720 And, Doc, I got to tell you, thanks for making this work as well.

01:46:08.820 I know we're going back and forth.

01:46:10.140 Flex, appreciate you, man.

01:46:11.120 Thanks for coming out.

01:46:11.560 Thank you so much.

01:46:11.940 Thank you.

01:46:12.420 Thank you.

01:46:12.840 This was great.

01:46:13.320 Pleasure.

01:46:13.460 Thank you.

01:46:14.060 Thanks, everybody, for listening.

01:46:15.340 And, by the way, if you haven't already subscribed to Valuetainment on iTunes, please do so.

01:46:19.880 Give us a five-star.

01:46:21.260 Write a review if you haven't already.

01:46:22.860 And if you have any questions for me that you may have, you can always find me on Snapchat, Instagram, Facebook, or YouTube.

01:46:28.700 Just search my name, PatrickBitDavid.

01:46:30.740 And I actually do respond back when you snap me or send me a message on Instagram.

01:46:35.580 With that being said, have a great day today.

01:46:37.380 Take care, everybody.

01:46:38.120 Bye-bye.

Valuetainment - March 25, 2020

Episode 446： Flex Wheeler Opens Up Post Surgery

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