Valuetainment - Episode 453： Fab Morvan - Untold Stories Of Milli Vanilli

00:00:00.000 30 seconds.

00:00:01.860 Did you ever think you would make it?

00:00:04.220 I feel I'm so close I could taste sweet victory.

00:00:07.640 I know this life meant for me.

00:00:10.760 Yeah, why would you bet on Goliath when we got Bet David?

00:00:14.580 Valuetainment, giving, values contagious.

00:00:16.440 This world of entrepreneurs, we get no value to haters.

00:00:19.160 How they run, homie?

00:00:20.140 Look what I become.

00:00:21.420 I'm the one.

00:00:22.520 This is Patrick Bedevi, host of Valuetainment.

00:00:24.180 Today I have guests with me, Fab Morbin from Milli Vanilli.

00:00:28.020 Yes, blame it on the rain.

00:00:29.860 And Milli Vanilli to tell us the untold stories of what really happened behind closed doors.

00:00:34.760 Fab, thanks for coming out.

00:00:36.260 Pleasure to meet you and I'm glad to be here.

00:00:38.520 So I got to tell you the story.

00:00:39.880 So for me, I get, you know Milli Vanilli when the first time when the whole scandal took place and it came out.

00:00:46.440 A lot of people didn't want to listen to the music.

00:00:48.440 It was kind of like don't play it in the car anymore.

00:00:50.300 Right.

00:00:50.640 But for me, I couldn't stop playing it because it was so ridiculously good.

00:00:57.300 I mean, you can't even stop listening to it.

00:00:58.880 To the point where my wife and I got married, June 26th of 2009.

00:01:02.000 We gave everybody a CD.

00:01:04.200 Everybody that came to our wedding, we gave a CD with 12 songs.

00:01:08.120 One of the songs was, Girl, You Know It's True.

00:01:10.440 Oh, yeah.

00:01:10.940 Okay.

00:01:11.060 So we got a lot to cover here today.

00:01:13.860 Again, I'm glad you were able to make it out here.

00:01:15.660 So how's life today?

00:01:17.660 You know, I know typically you go backwards, start from the beginning to now.

00:01:21.020 But tell me what's life like for you today.

00:01:23.260 What is life like for me today?

00:01:25.700 It's all about my legacy.

00:01:29.480 Every decision I make is about my legacy.

00:01:32.860 Because I want to leave something behind.

00:01:36.940 You know, we're not here forever.

00:01:38.600 But whatever you leave behind can be forever.

00:01:43.040 And also can be used forever.

00:01:46.840 So as I walk through my book of life, because, you know, we all have a library.

00:01:55.580 You know, life is like to me like this library right there.

00:01:58.140 And each book is a part of that journey.

00:02:04.320 Life is the library.

00:02:06.620 And in each book, you know, we go through struggles.

00:02:11.020 And maybe the book after, then, I'm site 2020, we learn from the previous book.

00:02:17.000 And then the next book after that, or chapter, becomes really, really, really interesting.

00:02:24.540 Because the fact that now, what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger.

00:02:29.240 What you learn from, makes you better, faster, stronger.

00:02:33.880 So that's a great way to go right into one of the first chapters, before today's chapter.

00:02:39.900 Because sometimes in life, some chapters are the most painful one.

00:02:43.640 And some of them are the most rewarding one.

00:02:45.900 Let's talk about the chapter before it became the absolute rewarding.

00:02:50.320 Everything was going good for you.

00:02:52.020 So who was, if you and I were in high school together, you know, and were in school, I'm

00:02:57.140 talking 16 years old, 17 years old, who was Fab?

00:03:00.620 Fab was, you know, introverted.

00:03:03.960 Introverted.

00:03:04.560 Introverted into art.

00:03:08.220 I grew up in France, Paris.

00:03:09.580 So, you know, you have this beautiful city.

00:03:13.020 And then in school, you know, we, you know, they take you to museums.

00:03:17.960 You know, so they connect you to art.

00:03:22.200 And traveling was really something that interested me.

00:03:27.200 Music was, was my lifeline.

00:03:31.620 Even at that, at what age did music become your lifeline?

00:03:35.040 As long as I can remember.

00:03:36.560 It's been, it's been part of, part of me.

00:03:39.200 Like Bob Marley.

00:03:40.340 And, because the weather was so ugly in Paris.

00:03:46.900 So, going out, because, you know, the weather has changed.

00:03:52.760 The weather is, is not what it used to be.

00:03:56.100 And, growing up in Paris, winters were hard, long.

00:04:01.300 Summer were, you know, I would go to the Caribbean, see my family.

00:04:04.220 But, it was harsh environment.

00:04:07.380 So, staying home, music was the lifeline.

00:04:12.360 Were you playing?

00:04:13.160 Were you listening?

00:04:13.960 What, what?

00:04:14.440 Listening.

00:04:15.380 Okay.

00:04:15.600 It was like the escape.

00:04:17.680 You know, it took me somewhere else.

00:04:19.260 And, and I realized that it took me somewhere else.

00:04:21.620 And then, after a while, I was like, you know, I should definitely find out what they're talking about.

00:04:25.700 Because, you know, I'm a French guy.

00:04:26.820 So, I had to take a dictionary.

00:04:29.780 And, back then, records had line of notes.

00:04:32.880 And, who recorded what?

00:04:34.740 Who sang what?

00:04:35.940 So, that really became, like, a really interesting part of, like, my life.

00:04:41.540 Finding out who did what.

00:04:43.480 And then, when you look on one record, and you look at another record, then you see that, oh, there's the same players who played on that record and on that record.

00:04:51.660 You're paying attention to the details.

00:04:53.240 Yeah, to the details.

00:04:54.220 I'm very detailed.

00:04:54.900 And, that's a time when there is no YouTube.

00:04:56.900 There is no Wikipedia.

00:04:57.840 There is no Google.

00:04:58.600 There's nothing.

00:04:59.120 So, you have to do all this research for you.

00:05:00.820 You have to.

00:05:01.560 So, where are you getting your info?

00:05:03.340 Are you just going to the record store?

00:05:04.700 Go to the record store.

00:05:05.420 Okay.

00:05:05.980 Got it.

00:05:06.220 You know, and then you read the back.

00:05:08.400 You know, and before, there was all that information that was there for you to see.

00:05:11.980 You know, but there was an accident.

00:05:14.520 Because, I was looking for the lyrics.

00:05:16.480 But, then, you look at the lyrics.

00:05:17.860 And, then, later on in the booklet, then you fail upon who played what.

00:05:21.820 So, then, once I'm past the lyrics, then I go check the, you know, who did what.

00:05:27.140 And, there was an alumni of studio musicians at the time.

00:05:34.340 Especially, the records that I grew up with, you know, from, like, the 70s to the 80s.

00:05:39.360 All those, it was the Killers.

00:05:41.720 Who?

00:05:42.220 Name some of them.

00:05:43.260 Oh, I can't remember now.

00:05:45.740 In France?

00:05:46.500 Like, artists from France?

00:05:47.240 No, no, no.

00:05:47.620 They were American artists.

00:05:48.900 American artists.

00:05:49.500 You know, like, I was listening to American music.

00:05:51.540 So, are you talking about, like, some of the music that we're talking about?

00:05:53.880 Or, you're talking about, like, even, like, Animals?

00:05:55.980 You're talking about oldies, 60s music?

00:05:58.860 No, no, no.

00:05:59.360 I'm talking about when I got into the Jackson 5 and the Michael Jackson.

00:06:05.500 Got it.

00:06:05.880 And then the Earth, Wind, Fire, and the James Brown, and then the funk, like, the Cool and

00:06:13.380 the Gang, and the Stevie Wonders, and Eric Franklin, and all that.

00:06:20.940 You know, I realized that there was, it was like a pyramid.

00:06:23.960 There was the artist, and then there was, like, a whole...

00:06:27.360 Story behind it.

00:06:28.500 Yeah, there was a whole team of people.

00:06:30.120 Like, I was like, wow.

00:06:30.880 Why were you curious about that at that age, though?

00:06:33.060 That was just an accident.

00:06:34.220 Oh, that was accidental.

00:06:35.080 Yeah, because I was looking at the lyrics.

00:06:37.180 Got it.

00:06:37.520 And then from lyrics, you look in the booklet, and then there's, like, you know, keyboard

00:06:41.240 by, written by, guitar...

00:06:44.740 Produced by.

00:06:45.720 Produced by, played by.

00:06:47.800 Got it.

00:06:47.940 And then I was like, oh, what is that?

00:06:49.120 I had to go to the dictionary.

00:06:50.320 Produced by.

00:06:51.380 You know what that meant.

00:06:52.580 Mm-hmm.

00:06:52.780 So that's when I realized that, you know, when the record was made, you know, it looked

00:06:58.880 like it was flat, but no, it was like a full city of things, you know, and then distributed

00:07:06.300 by as well.

00:07:08.820 Interesting.

00:07:09.660 So at this point, are you singing?

00:07:12.500 Are you modeling in high school?

00:07:14.380 Are you doing anything that has to do with everything in high school?

00:07:17.320 I was, I was, at the beginning, you know, when you start singing, when you're a singer,

00:07:22.360 you try to, you try to grab on to what you're listening to, and you know from not being able

00:07:29.180 to speak English, you just sing, you know, you just sing, sing, sing, sing, sing, but

00:07:35.700 you don't necessarily sing in key, or you might not know the right words.

00:07:39.880 Are you playing musical instruments?

00:07:41.460 Are you organizing part of that?

00:07:42.880 I came from a family, I came from a family of musicians.

00:07:44.400 My grandfather was an accordionist player, so that's why I got into like, you know,

00:07:49.480 and I've told that story, like I watched him play his instrument with a band, and I watched

00:07:55.260 my parents transform into like children, and to me, they were always like the father figure,

00:08:01.960 you know, the mother, the father, always strict, you know, on us, and then I noticed that that

00:08:07.760 element, music, when it came around people, and people were drinking, and the music had this power,

00:08:16.680 like almost like magic.

00:08:18.740 So when you brought that magic, you become, you became the magician.

00:08:25.380 When you brought the magic, you became the magician.

00:08:27.880 Yeah.

00:08:28.400 And you liked that.

00:08:29.020 Yeah, for me, it was like, wow, it's interesting, and people became happy.

00:08:33.720 Like, you know, I don't know what opera, with the flute, the ancient flute, and he plays,

00:08:39.260 and everywhere he goes, people are smiling and happy, and that's what it was for me, you

00:08:45.500 know, instant joy.

00:08:47.500 Interesting.

00:08:47.540 Caught your attention.

00:08:48.400 Yeah.

00:08:48.920 Huh.

00:08:49.360 And I was like, hmm, that'd be cool, and my mom was like, no.

00:08:53.060 She didn't want you to be a part of it at all.

00:08:55.160 No.

00:08:55.560 Now, are you at this point partying a lot with girls, are you partying, are you playing

00:09:00.340 sports, are you doing any of that stuff, or not yet?

00:09:02.340 Yeah, I was doing trampoline, I was doing trampoline, I was doing sports, soccer, and

00:09:08.060 all that, and...

00:09:10.060 Are you the guy in high school that's got all the girls, or not yet?

00:09:12.600 No.

00:09:13.180 Not yet.

00:09:13.900 Hasn't happened yet.

00:09:14.720 No, I mean, I was more of a bookworm.

00:09:16.580 Okay.

00:09:17.340 Archaeology.

00:09:18.580 You were a bookworm.

00:09:20.040 Yeah, I was into...

00:09:20.960 Bookworm and music, that is such an interesting combination.

00:09:23.240 Archaeology was my thing, like the Incas.

00:09:25.560 Their calendar, that was for me like, whoa, like they created a different, you know?

00:09:32.680 Are you a math guy, or no?

00:09:34.240 I was a math guy, but the math teacher was mean.

00:09:37.660 I'm with you.

00:09:38.920 So, I think that I would have gone towards like science, but because the math guy was

00:09:47.280 so mean, and I think he was older, and he was not, and there was a change in education that

00:09:53.840 was taking place.

00:09:54.480 People, they were teaching differently, but that guy was from the old school.

00:09:58.680 You see that a lot, you know, somebody who's actually good in math, but the teacher makes

00:10:03.800 the kid not like math, and you see that with a lot of different subjects, by the way.

00:10:07.280 So, okay.

00:10:07.720 So, now you're in high school.

00:10:09.840 You're kind of getting your feet wet.

00:10:11.140 You're liking music.

00:10:12.040 Your grandpa played, you know, some instruments, and you're seeing parents get happy.

00:10:17.420 They become like childlike when they listen to music, and they're being entertained.

00:10:20.660 It's almost like magic for you.

00:10:21.800 So, where does that go to you meeting Rob?

00:10:25.340 Where does that connection between you and Rob happen?

00:10:27.760 Meeting Rob, well, I was tired of being in Paris.

00:10:32.740 You know, I thought that there was something more.

00:10:36.380 I thought that life was just, I believe there was more, and traveling would provide me with

00:10:43.120 that adventure.

00:10:43.820 So, I went with some friends to Germany, and landed there, and we met.

00:10:53.080 You met Rob in Germany.

00:10:54.380 Yeah, I met Rob in Germany, and there were not many, during that time, there were not many

00:10:59.820 dark-skinned people.

00:11:01.420 In Germany?

00:11:02.280 In Munich.

00:11:02.980 Okay.

00:11:03.340 Especially in Munich, because this is where we went.

00:11:06.200 And it was, we were like adversary.

00:11:09.880 I was on this turf.

00:11:10.740 I was new to the city, and I was wondering, who's that guy, you know?

00:11:16.500 And I was wondering, who's that guy?

00:11:18.480 And then we're going out with the same girls, hearing from each other.

00:11:22.700 So, we're definitely like around each other's turf now.

00:11:26.680 And I was looking to join forces with someone, because I was in a new city, I didn't speak

00:11:30.840 German, even though I studied German in school for two years.

00:11:34.440 And I kept going to the library to keep my skills up, you know, because I had to get

00:11:42.340 better, you know, in order to understand what they were saying.

00:11:45.220 But I kept that to myself.

00:11:48.540 And so, when Rob and I met, there was certain camaraderie.

00:11:56.180 Between you and Rob.

00:11:57.040 Yeah, there was certain like tongue-in-cheek, like competitive, and I thought, oh, that's

00:12:02.380 kind of cool.

00:12:03.060 You know, I saw through or read through the lines, and I thought, maybe be cool to hang

00:12:10.680 in, because I was looking for friendship.

00:12:13.440 Was he opposite personality of you?

00:12:15.380 Yeah.

00:12:15.900 He is.

00:12:16.540 Yeah.

00:12:16.840 Because you're very calm.

00:12:18.000 You come across very calm, chill, easy going.

00:12:21.060 And was he more the, you know, hothead a little bit, feisty?

00:12:23.840 Yeah, he was two years older, too.

00:12:25.340 So, almost like an older brother.

00:12:27.580 Yeah, he was an older brother.

00:12:28.440 Got it.

00:12:28.840 You know, and, but we had that yin and yang vibe, you know, and again, music was what we

00:12:36.440 loved.

00:12:37.320 So, music brought the two of you guys together.

00:12:39.040 Yeah.

00:12:39.500 Now, what was the connection when you guys kind of came together?

00:12:42.500 What was the story?

00:12:43.740 Do you remember the first time where you guys are like, hey, man, you know, we got to know

00:12:48.120 him?

00:12:48.300 Yeah, yeah, I saw him breakdance on stage at a party, and he was really good.

00:12:56.680 I was like, man, that dude is like, and I met him, I met him like a few days before,

00:13:01.900 and then there was a girl at the dance school, and this girl was like, oh, there's a party,

00:13:07.620 you should go.

00:13:08.160 I was like, really cool.

00:13:08.700 And I saw him at that place, and then I saw him there as well.

00:13:13.580 So, it was in a few, in the amount of a couple of days, you know, I ran into him, and he was

00:13:18.840 on stage, and he was doing his thing, and as he was done with his routine, he looked

00:13:25.440 at me like, you know, like, because he was a breakdancer, so he was, you know, the stare.

00:13:30.680 You know, he gave me the stare.

00:13:31.860 I was like, all right, what do you want?

00:13:34.720 You told him that?

00:13:35.560 No, no, but he was like, I was, what?

00:13:38.580 What is he doing?

00:13:39.680 You know, I was thinking, but, you know, I was like, he's cool, he's cool.

00:13:46.180 We didn't know who we were to each other yet, you know, but I felt like there was a certain

00:13:52.680 connection.

00:13:54.420 He was cool, and he was very good at what he did.

00:13:57.380 And so what happened next?

00:13:58.120 Did he approach you?

00:13:59.120 Did you go to him?

00:14:00.440 No, no, no.

00:14:00.960 Did a girl make you guys come together?

00:14:02.860 It happened organically, you know.

00:14:04.360 We just ran into each other from time to time, you know, and he would call me, hey,

00:14:09.720 star.

00:14:10.140 I was like, okay, star.

00:14:13.160 Then I would, next time we'd say, hey, star.

00:14:16.800 And inch by inch, we got closer to each other by just this competitive and, you know, thing.

00:14:27.180 But he was a loner, just like I was, because he was always, he was always alone.

00:14:31.880 I was always alone.

00:14:35.420 So that's why I questioned, I was like, that's weird, because he's always alone, I'm always

00:14:39.040 alone.

00:14:39.980 So maybe together, you know, we can be stronger together.

00:14:44.680 At that time, I didn't know that he was into music as much as I was, you know, but when

00:14:48.840 we got together, then we realized that maybe we should do something together about music,

00:14:55.780 because one of the first time we talked together, we talked about music, what we liked, and Rob

00:15:01.740 played guitar and played a few blues chords as well, you know.

00:15:06.960 So at some point, we started experimenting with, like, okay, he plays guitar, we played,

00:15:13.020 we wrote some songs, and it was an organic process.

00:15:18.180 Organic process, yeah.

00:15:20.220 That's, and by the way, were you two in Munich, the only two, like, you know, blacks that you

00:15:28.800 knew in Munich at the time?

00:15:30.040 Like, was it, because I remember, here's what I remember.

00:15:31.840 I went into the Army, I went to Fort Campbell, Kentucky, it was only me and another guy who

00:15:37.360 was from the Middle East, okay?

00:15:40.220 So when you spot another Middle Eastern, and you're Middle Eastern, guess what?

00:15:43.780 You're going to become best friends.

00:15:45.180 Yeah.

00:15:45.380 We become best friends, because we got something in common.

00:15:46.860 That's right, that's right, that's right.

00:15:47.560 Everybody would look at us saying, why are these guys from Iran and the U.S. Army?

00:15:51.760 This is very weird.

00:15:52.580 So we had immediately a lot in common.

00:15:54.200 The bond.

00:15:54.700 Was that the bond for the two of you?

00:15:56.260 Yeah, it was that, definitely, because, and especially the places where we were hanging out,

00:15:59.760 where we hung out, I mean, there was none.

00:16:03.900 None at the time?

00:16:04.760 No, and if you know Germany, a little bit about Germany.

00:16:07.240 I lived there for two years.

00:16:08.100 Okay, so Bavaria is the most, one of the most conservative area in Germany.

00:16:12.800 So that, yeah, you depict it well, you know, yeah, because of that bond.

00:16:17.760 There was no one that was looking like us.

00:16:19.280 Now, was there a lot of military bases already?

00:16:20.940 Because I know Rob's dad was from the Air Force.

00:16:22.920 Yeah, there was a lot of bases during that time.

00:16:24.680 Okay, so because a lot of soldiers in the Army always wanted to go to Germany.

00:16:30.800 Because when you went to Germany, Germany was known for partying.

00:16:34.380 It was a place to go.

00:16:36.000 And German women were all into partying and, you know, at the time.

00:16:41.140 So when it came down to orders, every soldier would have a list.

00:16:44.100 So where would you like to go?

00:16:45.000 You want to go to Camp Casey, Korea?

00:16:46.900 No.

00:16:47.660 You want to go to Okinawa, Japan?

00:16:49.440 Maybe.

00:16:50.160 Do you want to go to over here?

00:16:51.460 I want to go to Germany.

00:16:53.020 Germany.

00:16:53.960 And even for me, I lived there from 10 to 12.

00:16:56.760 I got to tell you, I got nothing but good memories when I was in Germany.

00:16:59.140 For a young boy, early age, I was having fun at a very young age.

00:17:02.480 Good time.

00:17:02.700 In Germany.

00:17:03.280 Good time, yeah.

00:17:04.260 So you're meeting Rob.

00:17:05.240 You guys are, you know, going out together now.

00:17:07.140 At this point, you're experimenting.

00:17:08.240 He's playing the guitar.

00:17:09.040 You're trying some music together.

00:17:11.180 How does that lead to you now meeting Frank?

00:17:15.800 How does that introduction take place?

00:17:17.860 Well, because, you know, we're trying to do our thing in the city of Munich.

00:17:21.020 And we were connected to some city musicians, which we were playing soccer with during the summer.

00:17:27.360 Okay.

00:17:28.740 And, you know, people started to, you know, we did a few gigs at a club called P.I.N.S.

00:17:36.560 And then from there, people started to mention our names, you know, and that was what we were trying to do.

00:17:41.780 We were trying to create a wave of awareness about all those guys.

00:17:45.840 And we're always at P.I.N.S., you know, putting the vibes in the club.

00:17:51.120 So to make sure that everyone knew that we do exist and we could possibly lead to connecting to the right people.

00:18:00.780 Because this club was full of influential people.

00:18:06.360 You know, it was entertainment.

00:18:07.680 It was finance.

00:18:08.860 It was all kinds of worlds merging together.

00:18:12.460 Is it a big club?

00:18:13.100 No, it was a small club.

00:18:14.280 Okay.

00:18:14.580 But the crowd was a lot of wealthy and rich.

00:18:22.840 Yeah.

00:18:23.580 You know, you had...

00:18:24.480 What's the name of the club?

00:18:25.440 P.I.N.S.

00:18:26.500 P.I.N.S., like one.

00:18:27.840 Yeah.

00:18:28.720 P, the letter, like Peter.

00:18:30.300 Yeah.

00:18:31.060 And one, I.N.S.

00:18:32.440 And that club was inside Haus der Kunst.

00:18:38.300 Haus der Kunst was a museum.

00:18:42.640 The club is in a museum?

00:18:44.040 Yeah, the club is in a museum.

00:18:45.500 Was it a sick club?

00:18:46.480 Was it like a legit club?

00:18:47.680 Was it a, you know, happening place to go to?

00:18:49.900 Oh, it was a happening place.

00:18:50.780 Okay.

00:18:51.280 So I hope 500 people like...

00:18:52.280 Very difficult.

00:18:53.060 No, you could only fit, I think, 400 or something.

00:18:56.160 400.

00:18:56.500 So it's not a big club.

00:18:57.560 It's a decent-sized club.

00:18:58.900 It's a decent-sized, small and cramped, but it was influential.

00:19:03.960 The right people.

00:19:04.420 I mean, I've seen there.

00:19:05.900 I've seen Bono there.

00:19:08.020 I saw Whitney Houston perform there on one of the records.

00:19:12.280 Like, I mean, I saw and met so many people there that I met after the fact who said,

00:19:20.500 you guys, were you in that club?

00:19:24.740 Too funny.

00:19:25.400 I met Charlie Wilson there, too.

00:19:28.900 You know, I met so many artists who remembered us because we used to bring the vibe.

00:19:34.040 We made sure, like, people were dancing, and that was just, like, instinct.

00:19:40.140 You know, if I could say it like that.

00:19:41.620 Instinct, make people dance, like, push the vibe.

00:19:45.940 Yes, we wanted to connect with people, but the music had such a powerful effect on our soul.

00:19:50.100 Were you performing or no?

00:19:50.480 Were you guys singing yet or not yet?

00:19:51.780 No, no, no, no.

00:19:52.320 You haven't performed yet?

00:19:53.200 No, no, no.

00:19:53.700 So what was the first time you guys did perform together on stage?

00:19:57.820 It was in Piancy, that club.

00:20:00.660 Oh, so you did end up performing there.

00:20:02.240 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:20:02.780 We did, we did, we did.

00:20:03.420 And what song was it?

00:20:04.980 Oh, it was some Beatles song, some soul song.

00:20:08.260 What was that one again?

00:20:10.080 I'll buy you a diamond ring, my friend.

00:20:12.200 I forgot the name of that one, you know, Beatles songs and others.

00:20:17.080 I can't remember right now, you know.

00:20:19.260 But it was, we felt that we were born to do this.

00:20:24.800 And there was that camaraderie of being able to be in a place and just take over.

00:20:31.180 So when it came time to end up on stage, you know, that, that natural chemistry that we

00:20:38.740 have and sparkle that we would like, you know, two energies coming together, pow, pow, then

00:20:45.120 it was like action, reaction, and then the circle between the audience.

00:20:53.580 And so we had that thing packed down because we had been performing together on stage, doing

00:20:59.400 some small shows and.

00:21:00.660 Singing.

00:21:01.880 No, we had done, we came from like a dancing, we're doing dancing shows.

00:21:06.440 And then from there, what we had learned as performers like this, then with the singing

00:21:12.300 and being, came together, you know.

00:21:15.720 Got it.

00:21:16.080 So you guys were natural performers.

00:21:18.620 That's the one part.

00:21:19.480 You're natural performers.

00:21:20.560 And trying to get the right, because, you know, like I said, from a young age, I've learned

00:21:27.900 that there's a pyramid.

00:21:29.460 You know, you had the singer in the front, but you had the songwriters and you got the

00:21:33.180 producers.

00:21:34.440 And that was, we were after that.

00:21:37.660 So when did you meet Frank?

00:21:40.100 Oof.

00:21:41.340 Not good with dates.

00:21:43.060 Well, did you meet him at the PI?

00:21:44.680 No, no, no, no.

00:21:45.420 But through, through our work.

00:21:47.240 Yeah.

00:21:47.500 You know, through creating this wave of awareness, that's how we got connected to some of the

00:21:53.420 people who worked with him.

00:21:55.100 And then, then we were brought up.

00:21:58.640 And then after the connection was made, and then we ended up, you know, at his, at his

00:22:03.300 studio.

00:22:04.360 So is this like 87, 86?

00:22:07.920 Yeah, yeah, 87, 88.

00:22:13.020 87, 88.

00:22:13.880 Yeah, 87, 88, yeah.

00:22:15.880 God, 87, 88.

00:22:17.080 My manager, Camarlo, is much better with those dates.

00:22:19.980 Who is?

00:22:20.520 My manager.

00:22:21.140 Your manager's better with the dates.

00:22:22.540 Yeah, much better.

00:22:23.100 So let's just say in the late 80s, you ended up, you ended up meeting, mid to late 80s,

00:22:26.920 you ended up meeting Frank.

00:22:28.240 First time you meet Frank, was it in Germany or you met him?

00:22:31.320 It was in Germany.

00:22:31.980 In Germany.

00:22:32.600 Yeah, at his compound.

00:22:33.160 In Munich.

00:22:33.780 No, no, Frankfurt.

00:22:34.940 In Frankfurt.

00:22:35.680 Yeah.

00:22:35.900 So you meet Frank the first time in Frankfurt.

00:22:39.200 How was that?

00:22:39.760 The first introduction you had to him?

00:22:41.500 I mean, you know, you walk in, in, in this man's studio, it was nothing but like gold

00:22:45.280 records on the, on the walls.

00:22:47.620 And, you know, he had four studios filled with like SSL, Niamh councils, councils.

00:22:54.620 And those were, back then, super expensive.

00:22:59.080 So each room was filled with, like, you know, like people make music at a computer today,

00:23:05.080 but like the wall behind you was filled with rack mounts.

00:23:10.540 Like from, like this, and like this.

00:23:14.300 And then the, so this is the back, and then where, this is the console.

00:23:18.260 The speakers are here.

00:23:20.240 The console, the console, the console, with like maybe 90 tracks on there.

00:23:24.540 And the walls are full.

00:23:27.040 So when you come in this room, you can feel it's soundproof.

00:23:29.920 So when you enter the room, you feel like, of course, a lot of electricity in the room.

00:23:36.240 But it's, it's like you come in, you can feel like silence.

00:23:40.740 Before music plays, you can feel like, wow, what is that?

00:23:45.040 Like that's a spaceship that's like, you're about to fly in this.

00:23:48.720 And everything looks very futuristic, so very attractive.

00:23:51.720 Very interesting.

00:23:52.180 And he had four of those.

00:23:54.220 He had four of those.

00:23:55.560 And this is in the late 80s.

00:23:56.700 So he spent some money on that.

00:23:58.220 Oh, because he made a lot of money.

00:24:00.060 So at that time, did you know who he was?

00:24:02.120 Like, did you know he was, he had the names that he had?

00:24:05.120 No, I didn't know.

00:24:05.220 I didn't know he was the man behind Bon I Am.

00:24:08.580 Because me, me, I was a French kid who grew up on lots of music.

00:24:14.260 And I knew Bon I Am.

00:24:15.840 You knew Bon I Am?

00:24:16.680 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:24:17.140 Okay, so you listened to the music.

00:24:18.640 Yeah.

00:24:19.180 Okay.

00:24:19.760 That was not my favorite, but I grew up on it and I knew it because we had parties, you

00:24:25.040 know, young kids go to parties.

00:24:26.440 And those songs were always played, always.

00:24:29.420 They were played in my house every day.

00:24:30.840 I mean, I know those four main songs we were talking about.

00:24:34.200 Daddy Cool, Sonny, and My Baker.

00:24:37.620 And then Rasputin.

00:24:39.220 Rasputin, yeah.

00:24:39.800 That's right.

00:24:41.000 So you knew he represented them.

00:24:44.220 At that time, was he with me?

00:24:45.340 No, I didn't know.

00:24:45.900 Oh, you did not know yet.

00:24:47.320 I had no idea.

00:24:47.900 Okay, I got you.

00:24:48.540 So you didn't be represented then.

00:24:49.060 Rob told me like, yo, you know, this guy did.

00:24:51.540 I was like, oh, really?

00:24:52.800 I was like, wow.

00:24:53.640 So my eyes were like, ooh, really?

00:24:56.260 We're going to meet that guy?

00:24:57.360 I was like, okay, cool.

00:24:58.540 You know?

00:24:59.000 I didn't know about the controversy behind it because that had come out as well.

00:25:03.940 So you didn't know that that was a play that he followed in the past before?

00:25:08.480 No idea.

00:25:09.100 At all?

00:25:09.540 No.

00:25:09.980 Because that was very successful.

00:25:12.240 Super successful.

00:25:12.980 I think 120 million records.

00:25:15.000 Yeah.

00:25:15.340 I mean, till today, most people don't even know that.

00:25:17.900 Even till today, people don't know that.

00:25:19.320 I know.

00:25:19.440 Because, you know, you came at an era where news popped out very quickly when somebody

00:25:26.460 was, you know, became famous quickly.

00:25:28.580 You can rise and you can fall very quickly.

00:25:30.680 But the era of Boney M, when they were doing it, things could kind of just slide with a

00:25:36.440 couple different things.

00:25:37.320 So, okay.

00:25:37.900 So you're sitting with him.

00:25:38.900 What was your impression, you know, when you first came in?

00:25:41.800 Did he give you more attention?

00:25:43.200 Was he talking to Rob more?

00:25:45.260 No, no, no.

00:25:45.600 Was he giving both of you respect?

00:25:47.240 He was, he's a very smart man.

00:25:51.020 So he was trying to understand the dynamics between Rob and I and maybe possibly already

00:25:58.320 because, you know, because he's a smart man and because he, the way he constructed his

00:26:04.580 business, because there's a business of the music business, I'm sorry, 2020, when I analyze

00:26:12.020 him now and seeing what he had in his compound, like four rooms filled with people, they were

00:26:19.320 not empty, they were people, teams working in there.

00:26:22.640 So he built this whole thing.

00:26:25.000 So when it comes to planning and orchestrating, I was sitting across a maestro, not understanding

00:26:34.740 that at all.

00:26:35.420 I was a naive kid.

00:26:37.220 I saw this man, a father figure that we trusted automatically because of the fact that look

00:26:43.720 what he built.

00:26:44.400 I mean, obviously, he is the owner of this thing.

00:26:49.360 In front of the house is a M1, a beamer that is very rare.

00:26:57.360 So that costs a lot of money too.

00:26:59.560 So this guy, you know, in our eyes, he's the man.

00:27:03.920 In your eyes, he's the man.

00:27:04.840 So you're never, you know, as a reflex, you know, you're not going to bite the hand that

00:27:12.980 wants to feed you.

00:27:14.440 So you play like, hey, whatever.

00:27:20.020 Let me know how high.

00:27:22.800 Is he charming?

00:27:23.800 Is he charming?

00:27:24.580 Is he charismatic or no?

00:27:25.960 He's more subtle, quiet.

00:27:27.640 Is he loud?

00:27:28.780 What's his approach with you?

00:27:29.920 He was just calm, you know, like he appeared to be nice, like a father figure, you know?

00:27:39.740 But it was busy, you know?

00:27:42.280 So he came in, we met, we were introduced to somebody else, who talked with us later.

00:27:49.560 The encounter was short because he was busy.

00:27:52.340 First encounter was short.

00:27:53.880 Well, it was not that long.

00:27:55.060 30 minutes, 20 minutes?

00:27:56.140 Oh, I can't remember right now because I, you know, I didn't speak German very well.

00:28:04.180 So Rob did.

00:28:05.700 Yeah.

00:28:06.140 So Rob mostly didn't speak English very much.

00:28:11.260 And so I can't remember how long it was.

00:28:15.380 I'm just curious, you know, like when the first time you met him, was it getting to know

00:28:20.040 you, was it straight going into business with him?

00:28:22.620 No, no, no.

00:28:23.040 Because what they were, they just wanted to meet us.

00:28:25.760 Okay.

00:28:26.440 Got it.

00:28:27.000 So that's the first intro.

00:28:27.920 Yeah, they just wanted to meet us and feel it out.

00:28:30.960 What happens after that?

00:28:32.900 Well, we went back to Munich, you know?

00:28:36.580 And we got back, they got back in touch with us and said, yeah, we're going to come together.

00:28:41.540 It was like, okay, cool.

00:28:42.860 You know?

00:28:43.120 And then time went by, time went by.

00:28:45.920 We never heard from them, you know?

00:28:47.700 And we were wondering like, oh, what's going on?

00:28:49.360 What's going on?

00:28:50.740 But I think that in the meantime, Frank had implemented something into motion.

00:28:59.220 You know, he found those two guys that he was only interested in for one reason.

00:29:05.300 Their voice?

00:29:06.860 No, no, no.

00:29:07.380 He was not interested into our voices.

00:29:09.060 No, no.

00:29:09.340 You said two guys.

00:29:10.180 Are you talking about Charles or are you talking about you and Rob?

00:29:12.440 Rob and I.

00:29:13.060 Okay.

00:29:13.520 Got it.

00:29:13.840 But, you know, Einstein 2020, because I don't know what was going on in his mind.

00:29:19.000 I have no idea to this day.

00:29:20.740 But when I put the puzzle back together and hear from others, I think that he found one

00:29:30.120 of the main pieces of this puzzle.

00:29:31.940 And then from there, just like building a pyramid, he started building.

00:29:38.360 He built it.

00:29:39.120 You know, music.

00:29:41.380 And then when it was time for us to come to the studio, he had this track, Girl Knows Through

00:29:48.680 with our vocals, which we thought like, okay, it's time to shine.

00:29:54.780 But the time to shine never came, really.

00:29:59.140 We were never asked to show what we had.

00:30:03.820 Never.

00:30:05.420 So you've never performed in front of him?

00:30:07.220 He never asked.

00:30:08.880 And we were like, okay, when is he going to, you know, when is he going to ask us?

00:30:12.600 You know, because we thought that we were going to come to the studio and then suddenly

00:30:15.200 there was a track.

00:30:16.500 There was no vocals on there.

00:30:18.440 And I said it before, if I would have known how a console worked, I would have seen that

00:30:24.520 there were mute buttons.

00:30:26.760 Because, you know, when back then there was a tape along the console.

00:30:31.640 And there you have like guitar, bass, keys, vocals, lead vocals, backgrounds, harmonies.

00:30:41.340 Everything is written, handwritten, you know.

00:30:45.040 If I would have known about this process well, I would have known that there was something about this

00:30:53.660 that was muted.

00:30:54.380 You know, so in this room, you know, we were like, wow, look at the studio and hearing the

00:31:02.920 instrumental being played.

00:31:05.400 I mean, we saw ourselves on stage.

00:31:08.520 You saw yourself on stage?

00:31:10.160 Yeah, we said, wow, this is a great track.

00:31:12.380 We could do this.

00:31:13.780 First time you heard Girl, You Know It's True.

00:31:15.480 Yeah.

00:31:15.800 And so this is being, this is not the original, obviously, Girl, You Know It's True that

00:31:20.020 didn't do that well.

00:31:20.960 Because I think there was another person that wrote.

00:31:22.300 Yeah, but New Marks.

00:31:23.420 New Marks.

00:31:24.020 Yeah, New Marks did.

00:31:25.080 And I didn't know about New Marks.

00:31:26.260 You definitely have no idea who New Marks is.

00:31:28.160 You don't know Girl, You Know It's True.

00:31:29.300 No.

00:31:29.840 And it didn't.

00:31:30.600 But I just heard it was instrumental.

00:31:32.720 Right.

00:31:33.100 I didn't hear it.

00:31:33.660 It was just the music.

00:31:34.500 He played as the music.

00:31:36.280 Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da.

00:31:37.460 That's right, that's right.

00:31:38.460 That's all you've heard.

00:31:39.540 Yeah.

00:31:40.320 Okay, so you're sitting there, you're first listening to the instrumental.

00:31:43.220 You haven't heard the voice yet.

00:31:46.300 No.

00:31:46.760 When has the voice been introduced to you?

00:31:48.680 Oh, that came later.

00:31:50.640 So from there, because I've told the story, right, from this room that was, in French,

00:31:56.640 we say, meaning everything was like sunny and happy and, you know, wow, everything is

00:32:05.480 green, palm trees.

00:32:06.960 If I can describe it like that, you know, like if you speed up an image of trees and flowers

00:32:11.680 growing, the jungle, like something positive is happening.

00:32:16.680 And then from that room, we went to another room.

00:32:21.200 And in that room, there was like a dark cloud that came.

00:32:25.400 And it started raining and pouring and storm came in.

00:32:28.960 You felt it immediately.

00:32:30.500 Yeah, it was weird.

00:32:31.300 It was like from one, happy, and then even his face, because I've always, because I didn't

00:32:38.600 speak English, German very well, or English, I relied on body language, which I, in the

00:32:48.280 library, I kind of looked into that.

00:32:51.440 So I could analyze people from the way they would behave.

00:32:56.320 And it was a drastic, like, he was different.

00:32:59.320 He was different.

00:33:00.120 In the other room?

00:33:00.940 Yeah.

00:33:02.000 So you go in the other room, what does he say to you?

00:33:03.740 Oh, he talks to Rob in German.

00:33:07.380 And then I can see, I know Rob, I can see him just fuming, like getting mad.

00:33:12.400 And I was like, whoa, how can it be, how can it be not good?

00:33:18.340 It was all good.

00:33:19.620 And now it's all bad, it feels like.

00:33:22.300 So I'm impatient, I want to find out what's going on, you know?

00:33:25.700 And they get into it, and then sparkles fly, Frank leaves.

00:33:36.580 I'm like, oh, that can't be good.

00:33:40.120 You mean sparkles fly, like Rob and Frank get into it?

00:33:42.300 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:33:43.100 They start screaming, and, you know, Rob's not happy.

00:33:47.900 And I'm not getting it, you know?

00:33:50.260 Because they were speaking fast.

00:33:54.200 Frank leaves, and then Rob turns to me and tells me that.

00:33:59.260 And I can't really recall, you know, I'm paraphrasing.

00:34:03.960 But pretty much he tried to explain to me that they don't want us to sing on this.

00:34:10.500 And I'm like dumbfounded.

00:34:12.980 I'm trying to understand, like, I don't get it.

00:34:15.340 In the meantime, before all that, we had signed a contract, a recording contract, and received a little bit of advance.

00:34:29.580 But we, you know, when we signed those papers, there was no attorneys, there was no managers, there was no support system.

00:34:39.120 We were just like eager beaver.

00:34:42.400 Where?

00:34:44.260 How high should I jump?

00:34:46.020 Got it.

00:34:46.740 This is when he got $1,500.

00:34:48.460 That's right.

00:34:49.040 Is it $1,500 a piece or $1,500 total?

00:34:51.940 I can't recall.

00:34:53.520 Maybe a piece.

00:34:54.860 Okay.

00:34:55.100 So.

00:34:55.800 Nothing crazy.

00:34:56.980 No, nothing crazy.

00:34:58.060 Just enough to maybe, like, get a.

00:34:59.000 Just enough to go get some clothes, work on that hair, you know, because we had braids.

00:35:04.720 Did he suggest you go work on the hair?

00:35:06.280 He can't.

00:35:06.480 No, no, no, no, no.

00:35:07.220 That was all.

00:35:07.560 So the hair is all you and Rob.

00:35:09.100 Yeah.

00:35:09.360 Okay.

00:35:09.600 You thought about that.

00:35:10.240 Yeah.

00:35:10.380 Because everybody wanted to have a unique look.

00:35:11.760 So you wanted to have a unique look.

00:35:12.920 That's right.

00:35:13.460 That's right.

00:35:13.760 That's right.

00:35:14.300 Got it.

00:35:14.660 So.

00:35:14.900 And then he comes, you talk, Rob is furious.

00:35:17.320 Him and Frank go at it.

00:35:18.980 And then at what point.

00:35:21.280 So he's already told them what he has in mind.

00:35:23.880 Here's a song.

00:35:24.780 I'm going to get the voice.

00:35:26.240 You guys will be the performers.

00:35:27.400 You'll be the face.

00:35:28.240 But someone's going to be singing.

00:35:29.680 That's right.

00:35:30.160 So he told that to Rob.

00:35:32.520 Yeah.

00:35:34.520 Paraphrasing.

00:35:34.840 Paraphrasing, but he just told them, listen, you guys be the face.

00:35:40.720 That's it.

00:35:41.680 Yeah.

00:35:42.540 You know, that's it.

00:35:44.140 And that's why we were like, man, that makes no sense.

00:35:48.940 So we came, we signed a contract, we got some money, but through the months of absence,

00:35:55.120 of their absence to us and contacts, we ran out of money.

00:36:00.420 So, hey, can we get some more, you know?

00:36:03.900 Oh, yeah.

00:36:04.620 Oh, so Rob said, no, we're not going to do it, is what I'm assuming.

00:36:07.860 Yeah.

00:36:08.400 Okay, so Rob is saying, we're not doing this.

00:36:10.060 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:36:10.480 Then you're running out of money, then you reach out and call them.

00:36:12.760 No, no, no.

00:36:13.340 Until before, before, what I'm trying to say is like, when Gloria Nois always played to

00:36:18.780 us, this time period that you were asking, so what happened?

00:36:22.300 And that time period, when we first get that first money, we asked for some more through

00:36:29.720 the months.

00:36:30.360 Got it.

00:36:30.760 And that added up.

00:36:32.860 We had to pay our rent.

00:36:33.900 We thought things would be moving a lot quicker.

00:36:37.520 So we-

00:36:38.100 What is that timeline?

00:36:38.680 Is that six months?

00:36:39.460 Is that a year?

00:36:40.140 Is that three months?

00:36:40.900 I can't remember exactly.

00:36:42.720 Okay.

00:36:43.000 A manager we'd know, maybe, you know.

00:36:45.360 Okay.

00:36:46.160 But it was, but we had to survive during that time, and we thought it would go quick, but

00:36:52.120 it was not coming.

00:36:53.700 And maybe that was part of the plan.

00:36:55.860 So yeah, give them more, because they'll be indebted.

00:37:00.380 So after a while, it was a certain amount of money, a certain amount of money that we,

00:37:04.700 there was not a lot, but to pay that back, it would take some time.

00:37:10.000 And so, you guys don't want to do it, so pay us back.

00:37:16.520 Like, oh, oh, that means we'd have to maybe get a job, get some more shows, but how do

00:37:24.460 we get that money?

00:37:25.420 Like, you know, because now we owe this person, this very powerful person.

00:37:29.620 And maybe if we don't do what we're supposed to do, we might never get a chance to get in

00:37:38.220 the industry again.

00:37:40.000 You know, so it was all that that was going on.

00:37:44.620 So, you know, we went to the hotel and thought about it, and then we went for it.

00:37:54.800 You went for it.

00:37:56.060 Yeah, thinking, but we went for it saying, okay, we're just going to do this song, and

00:38:01.560 we're out.

00:38:02.180 We pay you back, like that.

00:38:03.540 And from there, you know, we got a taste for that life.

00:38:10.220 We had nothing.

00:38:11.600 So, certainly, you know, you travel, you're on the road.

00:38:15.480 So, let's back up.

00:38:16.520 So, you go back to the hotel.

00:38:17.700 You decide, okay, let's go for it.

00:38:20.200 Yeah.

00:38:20.440 So, then you go for it.

00:38:21.620 How quickly did things move there where the song was built?

00:38:25.520 Did you guys do music video?

00:38:27.340 What happened next?

00:38:28.880 No, I think what happened is like when we agreed, we did like a small video at a TV station.

00:38:40.880 And so, we had to come up with the choreography and learn the song and all that, and that was

00:38:50.480 on a small station for a certain part of Germany.

00:38:54.140 And I think maybe in there, I planned it was a test to see if people would react.

00:38:59.360 And I think that this little thing that we had done, this test, the results came back

00:39:06.020 real good.

00:39:06.820 Real good.

00:39:07.560 Really good.

00:39:08.580 Got it.

00:39:08.920 And from there, like the song started to get some action, and then we were cold, and

00:39:21.000 this time we did a video.

00:39:23.660 So, the music video that we see of Girl, You Know It's True, has that already been produced

00:39:28.860 or not yet?

00:39:30.560 Not yet.

00:39:31.220 Not yet.

00:39:31.560 Not yet.

00:39:32.000 So, what was the song that he tested in that one smaller-

00:39:34.540 Girl, You Know It's True.

00:39:35.440 It is Girl, You Know It's True.

00:39:36.460 Yeah.

00:39:36.660 Okay.

00:39:37.020 And have you met the voices yet?

00:39:39.640 No.

00:39:40.320 At all?

00:39:40.860 At all.

00:39:41.440 No.

00:39:41.780 I wasn't aware of the construction of this thing.

00:39:45.660 We had no idea how it worked, how it came about, who was behind.

00:39:49.960 So, when you did the first video that they tested, was that video you lip-sing in that

00:39:56.220 video?

00:39:56.340 Yeah, yeah.

00:39:56.620 So, you're just performing at this video.

00:39:58.260 That's it.

00:39:58.740 I got it.

00:39:59.300 So, you're doing the dancing, you're doing the performing.

00:40:01.240 That's it.

00:40:01.940 The instrumental playing in the background.

00:40:03.680 So, and the song is written by the folks who knew Marx or whatever they're called.

00:40:10.700 They're not even involved at all.

00:40:11.460 I didn't even know about that.

00:40:12.500 Okay.

00:40:13.000 Either.

00:40:13.620 Are they involved with Frank or you wouldn't know till today?

00:40:16.900 Meaning, did Frank buy the rights to the writing of that song?

00:40:20.200 I think that, you know, in the music business, you just, you know, you just, you know, okay,

00:40:25.320 we're using your song.

00:40:26.140 There are rights.

00:40:27.080 That's it.

00:40:27.320 You know, every writer is protected.

00:40:29.380 So, you know, they got paid, obviously.

00:40:31.680 So, Frank had to pay the writer?

00:40:33.040 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:40:33.640 Okay, got it.

00:40:33.740 I mean, through royalties.

00:40:35.040 Got it.

00:40:35.260 It's automatic.

00:40:35.940 Sure.

00:40:36.400 Okay, got it.

00:40:37.140 It's like, he took a song, it's like a cover.

00:40:41.340 It's a cover.

00:40:43.000 But, you know, he took it to the next level.

00:40:45.680 You don't know nothing yet that it's a cover.

00:40:47.300 You know nothing that's taking it.

00:40:48.020 No idea.

00:40:49.000 So, that song, they come back, the results are good, they're liking it, they bring you back

00:40:53.180 to now do a video together.

00:40:54.980 A real video.

00:40:55.800 A real video.

00:40:56.400 Like, series of like, at a, actually, there's a section of, like, the film industry in Munich

00:41:06.400 back in the 80s was, they were doing some movies that were made in the 80s were made

00:41:12.460 in that Bavaria studio.

00:41:15.200 And there, we did this video, you know, the first one.

00:41:20.120 So, part of it was filmed there and another part was filmed in London.

00:41:24.200 But we were part now of a very professional entity.

00:41:28.600 We could see it, like, becoming, closing in on us.

00:41:32.460 And, oh, okay, this is great.

00:41:34.840 We were tasting and being seduced by this whole thing because, you know, from having nothing

00:41:40.960 to being involved with, like, professional people and, you know, living your dream.

00:41:47.700 You know, when you live your dream and you're tasting it, you know, it's not, but we can't

00:41:53.300 taste it all the way.

00:41:54.240 Not yet.

00:41:55.780 I mean, not all the way in the sense that we're not singing.

00:42:00.700 So, you're tasting it, but, you know, you're chewing.

00:42:05.220 You're chewing, but you can't really taste it.

00:42:08.020 If I can describe it like that.

00:42:09.740 Let me ask you this.

00:42:10.480 So, while, at this point, the first test, not the big video that you did, the first

00:42:15.980 test, did you get attention?

00:42:17.760 Like, did people locally say, oh, my gosh.

00:42:20.180 No, no, no.

00:42:20.740 So, nothing crazy.

00:42:21.580 No, no, no.

00:42:22.120 Okay.

00:42:22.480 It's there.

00:42:23.080 That was their case study.

00:42:24.380 Got it.

00:42:25.080 Small, very small case study.

00:42:26.140 Very small case study.

00:42:26.900 So, now they do the big video, the main one.

00:42:29.340 They spent some money into it.

00:42:30.280 Well, we had to do it because it was moving.

00:42:34.520 Got it.

00:42:34.720 So, when something is moving, well, now we've got to, you know, they've got to go full on.

00:42:39.800 He's got to capitalize off of that.

00:42:41.140 Of course, of course.

00:42:41.940 That's the business.

00:42:42.800 That's the timing.

00:42:44.040 Is there anything in the video that's your voice?

00:42:46.100 So, you know, the beginning that says, well, I sat back and thought about the things we

00:42:49.740 used to do.

00:42:50.400 It really meant a lot to me.

00:42:51.760 That's not, so that's also the voice of Charles or whoever they were.

00:42:56.460 Yeah, Charles Charles.

00:42:57.100 Yeah.

00:42:57.460 So, you're simply, you know, acting and performing the entire thing from the beginning to end with

00:43:02.980 the video.

00:43:03.340 So, now the video comes out, okay?

00:43:06.080 He launches it.

00:43:07.660 At what point was the tipping point where it just took off?

00:43:12.020 It took off really fast because suddenly you had Robin Fab and the music and they both

00:43:21.160 did this because he built it like that, you know?

00:43:27.300 Let's face it.

00:43:28.180 Without Frank, none of that would have been possible.

00:43:30.460 So, this plan, this puzzle that he was implementing in order for his puzzle to come to life, first

00:43:40.640 installment was working and it was going up the charts and it was moving fast.

00:43:47.400 Let me ask you this.

00:43:49.380 While it's moving fast, are you and Rob behind clothes that are saying, I hope it slows down

00:43:54.280 a little bit because we don't want to get too much attention.

00:43:57.440 We kind of don't mind getting some attention, but we don't want to get a lot of attention

00:44:00.560 from this.

00:44:01.180 Yeah, we definitely had that feeling because we were thinking, okay, one record, this is

00:44:09.860 not going to go, you know?

00:44:12.060 You know, we were, when we heard the song the first time, we were like, yeah!

00:44:15.180 Yeah, but then, you know, we went to the other room and had to deal with the fact that, okay,

00:44:20.000 we are thinking, we're working to get out, not to get deeper in.

00:44:27.900 You know?

00:44:28.740 So, when you guys are speaking, the plan is to leave this thing.

00:44:31.080 You don't want to get into this guy.

00:44:31.660 Yeah, we don't want to stay there, but, you know, we, naive, signed a contract that was,

00:44:38.520 I think, for like three albums or something, but we signed, we only, if I recall, perfectly,

00:44:48.580 it was only a few pages that we were signing, but on the other side of it, you know, it was

00:44:55.580 part of a much bigger contract.

00:44:57.340 I got it.

00:44:58.280 You understand?

00:44:58.920 I got it.

00:44:59.760 But we didn't get that, and, you know, of course, you know, eventually it came out like,

00:45:07.140 hey, where are you going?

00:45:10.160 You know, we thought, where are you going?

00:45:12.400 No, no, no.

00:45:14.820 We got more to do.

00:45:16.780 And then there was that, I could, there was that battle because it felt good, you know?

00:45:23.960 But obviously, it was wrong.

00:45:27.900 But, the other side of the coin, you can't get out.

00:45:31.560 Because you got three more to go.

00:45:33.040 Oh, yeah.

00:45:34.020 You got three more albums to go.

00:45:36.480 Not even songs, it's albums.

00:45:37.940 It's albums.

00:45:38.940 Got it.

00:45:39.260 And, you know, you got money, you know?

00:45:43.240 So, it was well designed.

00:45:45.400 It was well played, and we were naive and didn't know how to, and no protection, no attorneys,

00:45:51.160 no.

00:45:51.580 Still nothing.

00:45:52.380 No, nothing.

00:45:52.760 You don't have a manager, agent, attorney, nothing yet?

00:45:54.500 Nothing.

00:45:54.900 They were.

00:45:55.700 Okay.

00:45:56.180 So, when it took off, did he now start paying you some kind of royalty?

00:45:59.380 Are you making a little bit more money now, or not yet?

00:46:01.140 Well, the way it was designed is like, you know, you're on the road, you got food, you dialed nine, I want this, this, and this.

00:46:11.400 And then, suddenly, 20 minutes later, boom, your table is full.

00:46:16.600 So, you know, money at that point was not really part of our equation.

00:46:27.900 Our equation was music, making people happy, doing what we loved.

00:46:36.200 That was, you know, that's the youth.

00:46:38.780 The youth doesn't think about action, consequences.

00:46:42.660 You know, every decision you make, there are consequences to what you take.

00:46:47.100 How quickly are you feeling the fame?

00:46:49.280 Oh, you feel it because you can, we perform on TV shows, and then, suddenly, you can see the girls are coming.

00:46:56.240 Not that we had any problems with girls at the time, but you could feel like, whoa, we're becoming, like, pop stars.

00:47:06.620 And it's very seductive.

00:47:08.980 I bet.

00:47:09.700 Because you, you know, you're a young man, and part of a young man's life is consumed by simple things.

00:47:22.300 Girls, music, dancing, enjoying life, you know, a butterfly, you know, but we were flying close to a flame.

00:47:35.880 Had no idea.

00:47:37.020 You know, when a butterfly flies, you know, full force, no thinking.

00:47:43.780 And once we were caught into this, girl knows true, storm of energy, you know, because it's pure energy, this thing that you get back from the fans.

00:47:56.100 It's intense.

00:47:57.080 It's addicting.

00:47:57.640 Once you're addicting to that, that vibe, you know, then it's, yeah, it pulls on you, you know.

00:48:04.340 I doubt about it.

00:48:05.020 So what song came next after that?

00:48:06.800 How quickly did you do the rest?

00:48:09.180 Oh, they had it planned.

00:48:10.460 As a matter of fact, they were, while this was going, they were working on the rest.

00:48:15.540 The teams, like, that whole compound was burning rubber.

00:48:19.180 They were going at it, you know, and baby, don't forget my number.

00:48:26.240 And then blame it on the rain, go, I'm going to miss you.

00:48:29.300 If I recall the orders, because suddenly there was Europe, but then America come into play.

00:48:35.500 And when America is starting to, like, call in your name, like, it changes everything.

00:48:44.780 Because America was, we dreamt about going to America, Los Angeles, New York.

00:48:51.140 First time you ever came to America, when was it?

00:48:55.120 1989, I believe so.

00:48:56.880 This is after the four hits are out already?

00:48:59.180 No, no, no, no, no.

00:48:59.940 We came for Girl No, It's True.

00:49:02.020 Oh, you came, so you shot the video here in London?

00:49:04.340 We shot in London and in Germany, if I recall correctly.

00:49:08.920 Yeah, parts of it in Germany, in Munich, and part of it in London.

00:49:12.660 But then, as things were rising high in the charts in Europe, they already had made a plan.

00:49:19.840 Of course, you know, it's a business.

00:49:21.460 Let's not forget, there's the music, and there's the business of the music business.

00:49:26.380 So they were making moves.

00:49:28.220 All that, I found out, some of it later on.

00:49:32.140 But they were talking to record companies abroad, you know, especially in New York, with Arista.

00:49:40.000 Arista Record.

00:49:41.000 So you come to L.A., when you came to L.A., did you get a lot of...

00:49:44.780 No, no, no, first we went to New York first.

00:49:47.560 Okay, you went to New York?

00:49:48.760 MTV.

00:49:49.580 MTV.

00:49:50.460 So you do that.

00:49:51.740 Did you...

00:49:53.180 Tell me what it was like.

00:49:54.780 Was it as crazy as I can imagine it was?

00:49:57.660 Yeah, because, you know, I remember we came and the sun was going down.

00:50:02.900 And we were on the freeway, we were on the limousine, picked up in the limousine, you know, like, whoa, late 80s, you know, like the long ones.

00:50:10.500 Not a town car, limousine, Cadillac, like in the movies.

00:50:14.480 And now we're in the United States, so it was like, you know, a world that we saw on the screen was now in front of us.

00:50:23.560 You know, I remember watching the cars drive and in my mind, watching movies, the cars always made noise, you know, like, and I was like, oh, they're not making noise because it's overdubbed, you know?

00:50:37.820 So we were looking at a total different reality through movies.

00:50:42.800 And now we were in, like, New York City, the city that never sleeps.

00:50:48.600 So we drive down, we see the city, and we turn the radio, and we hear Gary Knows Through on several stations, too.

00:50:57.800 It's like, so it was like a shot of adrenaline, like, you can't even explain that.

00:51:05.660 It's just like, wow.

00:51:07.500 And then in the airport, you know, people recognize you.

00:51:11.460 Oh!

00:51:12.820 You know, New York style.

00:51:15.060 You know?

00:51:16.980 It was overwhelming.

00:51:18.600 And you go down to New York, get in a hotel, go to MTV, and you realize everywhere you go, you're like the mayor.

00:51:28.040 Everybody wants to, well, they didn't have phones like that back then, but, you know, sign autographs.

00:51:34.620 So it was autographs over selfies back then.

00:51:36.900 Yeah.

00:51:37.260 Yeah.

00:51:37.660 That's right.

00:51:38.140 Makes sense.

00:51:38.720 And also, there were only a few news outlets.

00:51:42.900 Wink, wink.

00:51:43.280 Like, so whenever a news was dropped into those various news outlets, that was it.

00:51:52.460 You couldn't contest none of what was going through there.

00:51:56.560 The powers that be and the gatekeepers were connected to those outlets.

00:52:02.820 So you were, like, you know, like, you were.

00:52:08.460 Handcuffed.

00:52:08.920 You were controlled in a way.

00:52:09.820 Ooh, controlled.

00:52:10.860 Yeah.

00:52:11.080 So New York, L.A., you're getting all the fame, all the, you know, vibes.

00:52:15.840 You're getting it going.

00:52:17.000 And at what point did you know what Frank did with Boney M.?

00:52:22.300 At what point did you realize that?

00:52:24.120 Did anybody come and tell you that, or did you kind of reveal it yourself?

00:52:28.360 I can't remember how that came about, but it was brought to our attention.

00:52:37.240 I can't remember how I found out, but I did.

00:52:40.080 And it was only one person, and he did the voice of Bobby Farrell.

00:52:46.600 And I thought I was weird.

00:52:47.980 I was like, well, what didn't he, didn't he, you know?

00:52:51.140 And then I, then it was this whole curtain, you know, that something that was be, something

00:52:58.820 that was hidden, like, you know, the invisible man, you know, the potion is gone.

00:53:05.440 And suddenly, well, the true face, because he was looking a certain way to us, but then

00:53:10.780 another face came up.

00:53:13.520 So what I mean by invisible man, it was a man in front of us, but there was another invisible

00:53:20.900 side to him.

00:53:22.160 You mean behind Frank or behind Bobby?

00:53:24.500 Behind Frank.

00:53:25.680 Behind Frank.

00:53:26.340 You know, and when I found out about the fact that he had done with Bobby Farrell, then

00:53:33.240 it was two person in one, a very, a man with a plan, very strategic.

00:53:43.960 You know, nothing was made by accident, premeditated.

00:53:48.440 Did you confront him about it?

00:53:50.940 We had fights.

00:53:52.100 We had fights about it.

00:53:53.160 About Bonium, about the, the, his approach.

00:53:57.160 Not his approach, but what, what he was doing to us, because we were trying to sing.

00:54:02.140 Did you at all bring it up to him, that saying you did this with Bonium, you don't want to,

00:54:05.500 I don't want you to do this to him?

00:54:06.080 No, no, that never came into me.

00:54:07.260 So Bonium never was brought up?

00:54:08.360 No, no, no, no, it was never brought up.

00:54:11.060 Like, I, we were so focused on, on, on ours.

00:54:14.040 Our situation was to, we wanted to sing.

00:54:16.940 Mm-hmm.

00:54:17.660 On the second single, that was like, like, yo, this is going, we want to go.

00:54:21.880 But, obviously, and I've spoke about that before, in our minds, we thought, we could.

00:54:28.460 Okay, now it's time to sing.

00:54:30.200 Because, with the first single, you go in, okay, we'll get out.

00:54:34.780 Oh, no, we're not getting out.

00:54:37.040 No, we've got to keep going.

00:54:38.900 But you can't sing now.

00:54:40.380 Like, oh, wow.

00:54:41.380 Like, it was just like, we're getting punched by reality.

00:54:44.500 Is he threatening behind closed doors?

00:54:45.980 Like, is he saying things like, if you guys think about leaving me, I'm going to tell everybody

00:54:49.900 that you guys don't know how to sing?

00:54:51.160 No.

00:54:51.480 Or you're not singing?

00:54:52.380 No, but we were forewarned.

00:54:53.760 I remember when I, when I, when we signed the contract, it was all nice.

00:55:01.120 Again, just like the studio.

00:55:02.640 The song is playing, go to the next room.

00:55:04.720 We sign the contract, and then he says, don't have a F with me.

00:55:09.820 Like, like, whoa, the Dark Lord came out.

00:55:12.240 Like, what?

00:55:13.540 Dark Vader.

00:55:14.640 Was something said for him to say that, or no?

00:55:16.640 No, no, no.

00:55:18.220 It was just, it was done like, it was out of nowhere.

00:55:23.060 And that's when my radar just went like, oh, that's kind of weird.

00:55:27.780 Like, why would he say that, you know?

00:55:31.180 I guess now we signed, so don't ever try to cross me.

00:55:36.740 But he didn't say, if you go and try to leave me, I'm going to tell the world nothing.

00:55:44.200 He hasn't given that threat yet.

00:55:45.300 No, no, no.

00:55:45.760 Because we, you know, he was a pro at what he did.

00:55:50.140 You know, he let us, we felt his power.

00:55:52.680 So, as we were fighting against each other, we had no, we realized we had no power.

00:56:02.280 So, we didn't know what to do at this point.

00:56:05.740 We had no support system to help us make a proper decision.

00:56:13.220 You know, if there would have been an attorney to protect us and a manager to work together

00:56:20.320 and say, listen, Frank, we know you want them, let's do it.

00:56:25.580 Let's do it properly from the beginning, you know?

00:56:28.040 But we had nobody.

00:56:29.880 We didn't know how the music business worked.

00:56:32.700 Did you ask him, we're going to go get our own agent and manager?

00:56:35.980 Did you ever tell that to Frank or no?

00:56:37.440 No, we never got into that as well.

00:56:39.160 Let me ask you, from the moment of, you know, the girl you know is true being tested in a

00:56:46.120 small market, to the point of it coming out, being public, that it wasn't your voice, what

00:56:54.080 is the timeline there?

00:56:56.840 Talking two years, maybe?

00:56:58.740 Two years.

00:56:59.620 Yeah, because, you know, once girl you know is true when, it was the next and the next and

00:57:04.100 the next, and then Europe was catching fire, then America was catching fire.

00:57:08.560 How many records did you guys sell at this time?

00:57:10.520 What kind of numbers?

00:57:11.540 I think the total, by now, might be more.

00:57:14.040 It's 33 million singles and 14 million albums.

00:57:23.140 In this two years?

00:57:24.700 Yeah.

00:57:25.700 33 million singles?

00:57:27.860 Singles.

00:57:28.460 In two years?

00:57:29.600 14 million albums?

00:57:30.860 Yeah.

00:57:31.560 Because you get, in America we did seven and the rest of the world, so.

00:57:35.980 Think about this, and this is out of time, there is no iTunes, there is no 99 cents, buck

00:57:39.740 29.

00:57:40.400 Nothing.

00:57:40.760 So if you want one song, you can buy the single if you want, but you've got to buy the album

00:57:43.960 if you want three, four.

00:57:44.980 Yeah, that's right.

00:57:45.600 And albums were not running nine bucks or eight bucks.

00:57:48.140 No.

00:57:48.300 You're paying 15 bucks, 20 bucks.

00:57:50.360 They made, you know, they made well for themselves.

00:57:53.540 As a matter of fact, you know, Clive Davis was able to, with that, to create some other

00:58:01.740 entities.

00:58:03.380 You know, he's a businessman, of course.

00:58:05.380 You make money, you grow, you're going to create more to create more money.

00:58:11.580 So, at this, during this two-year period, 33 million singles, 14 million albums, which

00:58:18.160 is crazy, are you making millions at this point?

00:58:21.080 Are you guys making tens of millions of dollars?

00:58:23.020 No.

00:58:23.220 Not yet.

00:58:24.000 No, no, because it was designed from the start.

00:58:27.380 That contract was not vetted by anyone, so we just signed something that was just like,

00:58:33.720 you know, the line share was taken by the man, and we just got, like, describes, and that

00:58:41.140 was also shared with the people who sang on the record.

00:58:45.820 Are you making a few hundred thousand dollars per year?

00:58:48.120 Are you making a million dollars per year?

00:58:50.120 No.

00:58:50.760 Are you living in a nice house?

00:58:52.340 Do you have a nice car?

00:58:54.080 I didn't drive.

00:58:54.160 Are you traveling private?

00:58:55.520 Do you have a private jet?

00:58:56.760 No.

00:58:57.340 We didn't do private jets back then.

00:58:59.580 No.

00:59:00.300 At all?

00:59:00.920 No.

00:59:01.160 So, you're not yet living in a big house?

00:59:03.360 No, because we're always on the road.

00:59:05.360 So, you're staying at hotels the entire time?

00:59:06.900 Yeah.

00:59:07.540 They made us work, man.

00:59:08.660 We did 107 cities in eight months.

00:59:13.800 Oh, my God.

00:59:15.800 You know, so, like I said, you know, they were pulling the strings, you know, and we-

00:59:22.700 How fast did two years go by?

00:59:25.720 It felt, those two years felt like five years, really, because it was just-

00:59:31.960 What do you mean two years felt like five years?

00:59:34.460 It was so, so much was crammed that when I look back, I'm like, that's too-

00:59:39.920 When people say, you know, you were here from there to there, and I'm like, really?

00:59:45.240 Like, it was just like-

00:59:46.640 Surreal.

00:59:47.760 Surreal.

00:59:48.200 And every anecdotes, stories, experiences, like, encounters of people, and, like, I'm

00:59:59.100 like, wow, that was two years of my life.

01:00:01.400 How much are you partying?

01:00:02.360 Like, meaning, are you with a different girl every day, every night?

01:00:06.320 Is it, you know, is it that light?

01:00:08.360 Are you partying hardcore where there's five girls at the hotel waiting for you and-

01:00:12.200 I mean, first of all, when you look at the pictures, I gotta tell you, you know, two

01:00:17.520 extremely handsome, good-looking guys, okay?

01:00:20.920 You got Rob, who looks, you know, with his eyes and the color, and then you got you, you

01:00:26.220 got the whole, you know, jaw-perfect structure going on.

01:00:30.560 How crazy was the-

01:00:32.120 It was crazy, you know, I mean, you know, there are people that, there are probably families

01:00:36.320 and people watching, so I can't go into it in detail, but it was rock and roll at its

01:00:41.080 best.

01:00:41.660 Nonstop.

01:00:41.760 At its finest.

01:00:43.400 Give us a glimpse of it.

01:00:44.980 So don't go NC-17, but go Rated-R.

01:00:47.320 Okay, Rated-R.

01:00:50.800 Okay, you get back, you get off stage.

01:00:57.440 Backstage, we made sure that the room was filled.

01:01:01.700 When the room is filled, we take it back to base, we call back to base, because we were

01:01:11.220 organized, army-like, when it came to partying.

01:01:15.860 When you say back to base, you're saying what?

01:01:17.540 Back to base, back to hotel.

01:01:20.340 Oh, back to hotel, got it.

01:01:21.160 That's the base, but the base has different levels and areas, so you bring back everybody

01:01:30.420 to one spot, and then, because, you know, the place where people are going to end up

01:01:37.520 is not, it's not that big, so you, now you have to screen.

01:01:44.280 You have to screen who can.

01:01:45.940 Oh, screen.

01:01:46.840 Yeah, screen.

01:01:48.100 So there's a filtering process.

01:01:49.560 Filtering process.

01:01:50.640 And then they go to another room.

01:01:52.500 Yeah, so it's well organized until, until, you know, the goal of that was to, you know,

01:01:58.160 you want to get the best, because at, at that time, for us, you know, you, you're flying

01:02:04.300 high, you know.

01:02:08.700 Life is extremely intense, and it's about, because the stage, you know, the, the, the

01:02:16.000 adrenaline that you get is so intense.

01:02:18.680 It's, you want to keep this feeling going, so the show must go on.

01:02:23.940 And this lasted every day for pretty much two years.

01:02:27.480 It was crazy, yeah, it was intense.

01:02:30.020 That's intense, right?

01:02:30.860 It was intense, intense.

01:02:32.280 I mean, and in the process, you know, you, you know, you, you know, like I said, rock and

01:02:36.600 roll comes with certain elements, a dark element.

01:02:40.580 And when you start to play around with those elements, hence butterflies, the flame, you

01:02:50.840 know, you will open some wormholes, and you might not come back from those.

01:02:55.740 Are you talking about the coke and drugs and all of it?

01:02:58.360 All that, that comes with it, of course.

01:03:00.140 All of it.

01:03:00.760 Yeah, because you don't know what you're playing with at this point.

01:03:03.860 And it's every day.

01:03:05.220 Yeah, yeah.

01:03:05.800 Even though, the thing is, we were so strong physically, sometimes I wonder how we were

01:03:12.860 able to, like, you know, show, party, party show, and we used to also exercise.

01:03:22.180 How many hours of sleep are you getting at this time, when you're at your peak, the 107 in

01:03:27.400 eight months?

01:03:31.680 Six.

01:03:33.500 Oh, you are getting your rest.

01:03:35.000 Yeah, we had to.

01:03:36.280 Yeah, yeah, we had to.

01:03:37.180 Okay, you're still getting your, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:03:38.200 That's because sometimes when you're on an upper, it's kind of tough to, you know, so.

01:03:42.160 Yeah, but we had to because we, you know, you partied up, then people have to leave.

01:03:47.140 You got to leave.

01:03:48.800 So, when you go to the next city, you got your own bus.

01:03:54.080 Got it.

01:03:54.940 You got your own bank, you know, so you, that's the rest in time.

01:03:59.000 That's where you recover.

01:03:59.960 So, this thing's taking off.

01:04:01.180 It's going good.

01:04:01.840 Two years, momentum, rock and roll, the whole nine.

01:04:04.820 What was the moment?

01:04:05.880 I mean, you win one award, then you go to Grammys, you win the Grammy Award.

01:04:10.800 When you win the Grammys, and you have that in your hand, you're giving your speech, you're

01:04:14.000 walking off.

01:04:14.500 What are you guys telling each other?

01:04:15.620 Like, when they're announcing, are you saying, please don't announce us as winners?

01:04:19.540 Were you saying that?

01:04:20.420 That was my feeling.

01:04:21.580 That's exactly what I was feeling.

01:04:26.020 Because I was, and you know, I mean, you know the awards, you know how it works.

01:04:30.060 You know, the recipients is moved up.

01:04:33.200 So, they come get you.

01:04:37.440 Now, you're sitting in the front, like, oh, that's like, you know, you get like a little

01:04:42.740 uncomfortable.

01:04:44.080 Because, you know, you know what's coming.

01:04:46.700 And it's like, you know, this thing that's, like, about to blow up.

01:04:51.500 Because we, in the event that this thing happens, you're going to get a lot of attention, unwanted

01:04:59.100 attention to us that we really don't want to, to have.

01:05:03.560 And I remember Rob did an interview, and that created more attention.

01:05:11.680 It was taken out of context.

01:05:14.040 Is that the Time Magazine one?

01:05:15.480 Yeah.

01:05:16.280 Where he says we're, where the writers said, we're more impactful than Paul McCartney.

01:05:22.160 Yeah, which was crazy.

01:05:24.500 But that brought more oil to the fire.

01:05:27.280 Is this pre-Granmie?

01:05:28.400 Pre, pre, pre, pre.

01:05:29.160 Yeah, it's pre, I believe so.

01:05:30.820 Yeah, yeah, if I'm not wrong.

01:05:32.260 If I'm not wrong.

01:05:32.960 Because, you know, it's a lot to remember.

01:05:35.500 And it happens.

01:05:40.000 I remember going up those stairs.

01:05:41.640 I was like, whoa.

01:05:43.440 I remember, like, they call, like, my hand just went into, if I was a superhero, like,

01:05:49.320 I would have broke that chair.

01:05:50.600 It was like, hands hulk, right?

01:05:53.220 I would have transformed into that dude right there.

01:05:56.000 Because it was like, no way.

01:05:59.260 No way, meaning please don't call us.

01:06:01.460 Don't.

01:06:01.540 I can't believe this is happening.

01:06:02.800 No.

01:06:04.200 Because it was like, you know, we've received the American Music Awards.

01:06:10.320 That was already one thing.

01:06:11.240 But now you're dealing with the Grammys.

01:06:13.320 The Grammys.

01:06:15.140 Naras.

01:06:15.940 The whole tradition of, and I don't think there's not a story like ours.

01:06:22.700 Grammy recipients.

01:06:23.980 No, never.

01:06:24.900 No.

01:06:25.100 You're the only one.

01:06:26.020 Exactly.

01:06:26.560 Yeah.

01:06:27.040 I mean, it's a perfect story for a movie, by the way.

01:06:28.700 This is.

01:06:28.920 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:06:29.860 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:06:30.440 And I know they're working on some kind of a biopic or I don't know what.

01:06:33.040 There's stuff going on, man.

01:06:34.260 You know, like, but it's show business.

01:06:35.700 And so, you know, it has to be right.

01:06:37.680 The teams that I'll be working with, the manager.

01:06:41.600 Oh, this would be a phenomenal story.

01:06:43.520 It would be awesome.

01:06:44.220 This would be a phenomenal story.

01:06:45.340 So, you go up, you get it, you walk off.

01:06:48.360 And then, what are you and Rob telling each other when the cameras are off and you guys

01:06:52.160 are just by yourselves?

01:06:53.280 You know, when you know someone very well, like a family member, you don't need to say

01:06:58.440 nothing.

01:06:59.680 It's just you can feel each other.

01:07:01.980 It's the way you look at each other.

01:07:05.000 And, um, enough said.

01:07:07.760 I get it.

01:07:08.580 I get it.

01:07:09.640 I was like, I didn't know what to say.

01:07:13.960 You know, as a matter of fact, I say very little.

01:07:16.580 But the little bit that was told that night by Rob, you know, when he took the award and

01:07:23.340 said that, listen, this is for any artist out there who's putting the work.

01:07:30.120 Because, you know, we were criticized, but we put in the work.

01:07:34.940 You know, we went to work every night, gave our best.

01:07:39.920 And anybody that came to see us, we killed it.

01:07:47.160 That's one thing for sure.

01:07:49.140 We gave our best to the fans.

01:07:52.260 We loved the fans.

01:07:54.620 And this is what we wanted to do, you know.

01:07:59.040 We wanted to live this dream.

01:08:01.180 It was not the perfect dream.

01:08:02.240 Far from.

01:08:06.380 Partly, partly, unfortunately, you know.

01:08:10.780 And, uh, this Grammy, receiving this Grammy was, whew.

01:08:15.440 Did you guys partied that night with any celebrities?

01:08:17.200 Were you, because, you know, Grammys, there's a lot of after parties.

01:08:19.840 Were you with some names that are saying, hey, congratulations, fam?

01:08:24.200 I think that we went, I think we went back to the Red Company party.

01:08:29.060 But after that, I think it's a blur.

01:08:32.260 It's a blur because it was, you know.

01:08:34.940 Or because of drugs and alcohol.

01:08:36.020 Yeah, yeah.

01:08:37.040 That makes sense.

01:08:37.700 We were trying to, yeah.

01:08:39.800 That makes sense.

01:08:40.720 Yeah, we're trying to, to, uh, to, like, medicate ourselves.

01:08:44.080 To, to be numb and not feel it at all.

01:08:46.100 Yeah, because that's what we've been doing.

01:08:47.840 Because, you know, like we, there was, like I said, there was a lot going on.

01:08:51.080 You know, we were being pulled upon and having to, to keep going.

01:08:56.060 When, in fact, we didn't want to keep going.

01:08:58.580 Let me, let me ask you.

01:08:59.460 Did, did, did, uh, anybody from Bonium ever reach out to you guys?

01:09:01.860 Did you ever talk to Bobby?

01:09:02.820 Did you ever talk to those guys?

01:09:04.000 Because I know they eventually ended up dropping Bobby.

01:09:05.920 Bobby was one of the ones that couldn't handle it.

01:09:07.840 Right.

01:09:08.180 Because apparently when it came out, it was tough on them.

01:09:10.340 Yeah.

01:09:10.500 You know, with, for Bobby.

01:09:11.980 So they never reached out to you because they worked with Frank to say,

01:09:14.420 hey, just kind of be careful.

01:09:15.380 They kind of minded their own business.

01:09:16.980 Yeah, everybody minded their own business.

01:09:18.220 Okay.

01:09:18.380 And we were, we were kept.

01:09:21.080 At bay from everyone.

01:09:22.520 Shielded from each other.

01:09:23.600 Totally.

01:09:24.480 So, so I want to play video for you and I want to get your reaction.

01:09:27.180 Oh boy.

01:09:27.380 Because this is, this is, uh, this is when things start getting, moving pretty quickly.

01:09:32.680 I just want to get your reaction to see when you watch this now, what is your reaction?

01:09:38.340 Okay.

01:09:38.640 Paul, I think you put it up here.

01:09:40.220 Yes.

01:09:41.280 All right.

01:09:41.520 Let me play this for you.

01:09:42.440 Hang on.

01:09:46.080 And the best.

01:09:46.900 Oh.

01:09:47.220 This is.

01:09:48.080 Young MC.

01:09:49.220 Christopher.

01:09:49.740 Do you remember this like it was yesterday?

01:10:00.040 Yeah.

01:10:03.240 But I, you know, you had to go with it.

01:10:08.540 We had no choice.

01:10:12.140 All right.

01:10:12.780 All right.

01:10:13.140 It's top girl, you know, it's girl, you know, it's girl, you know, it's 80,000 people.

01:10:17.980 Girl, you know, it's girl, you know, I couldn't repeat it 50 times.

01:10:22.480 Girl, you got a wish.

01:10:24.520 So I stopped, I played, I went upstairs.

01:10:27.280 Brad Howell and Sean Davis are the real singers, and I think they should get, they should get this credit.

01:10:32.700 We knew we were lost in the moment that we got the Grammy in the hand.

01:10:36.540 We knew that gonna be, uh, it was time.

01:10:39.340 And we recredited, we tell our fans, we recredited 200,000 times.

01:10:44.380 What do you think about when you see that, uh, the video, obviously, I'm sure you've seen this before, but the video where the girl, you know, it's girl, you know, it's, was that the downfall after that or not yet?

01:10:58.200 Not at all.

01:10:58.980 Really?

01:10:59.720 Not at all.

01:11:00.240 It was just, uh, when we did the music, the behind the music, it was like, uh, it was made to be that, but it wasn't that at all, because we went on to get a Grammy after that.

01:11:13.960 That was the MTV tour, you see?

01:11:17.380 So when I look at the, the footage, receiving, you know, there's a lot that went on, and of course, I can't give you everything, you know?

01:11:28.720 But I can tell you, a lot went in that night at the Grammys, and, um...

01:11:34.560 Give us one thing that maybe, uh, not everything, but give us a glimpse.

01:11:39.960 Give us one thing that maybe has not been revealed about that moment and how quickly it went.

01:11:44.480 Not all of it.

01:11:45.220 We just, we're not greedy.

01:11:46.060 Just give us one of them.

01:11:47.340 No, the, the, the one thing is like, I mean, we knew we were performing.

01:11:51.560 You know, that, you know, and usually, that, those were the hints, you know, like sitting in the front.

01:11:58.720 Because we, we, we changed clothes.

01:12:00.740 We were clothes, uh, dressed differently that night.

01:12:03.000 And then they put you in the front, and then there were shots that were...

01:12:06.560 If you look at the Grammys, they always get the shots.

01:12:08.380 They're like, okay, okay, they're the focal points.

01:12:10.580 Best new artist.

01:12:11.780 Okay, okay, okay.

01:12:13.200 All right.

01:12:15.780 Performing.

01:12:17.000 Okay, obviously, we, we're not singing live.

01:12:20.360 You know, I saw, you know, you got to take into consideration that millions of people are watching the Grammys every year.

01:12:31.320 And I think you expect any nominee to perform live.

01:12:40.860 You know, so, that whole thing that was going on, and we didn't know, we didn't know it was coming.

01:12:49.740 We didn't know.

01:12:51.040 We knew, we didn't know, it was, it was unsure.

01:12:53.200 Just like a rubber band, you know, like, it pulls, it pulls, but you don't know until it breaks.

01:12:58.000 And the breaking point is like, and the winner is, because it could have gone differently.

01:13:06.680 You know, because, I mean, we knew that the industry knew.

01:13:13.680 So, they didn't know?

01:13:17.480 So, now I'm going to have you read between the lines.

01:13:19.800 It's an industry.

01:13:26.860 It's a business.

01:13:28.140 It's ran by very powerful people, by gatekeepers.

01:13:34.160 Money is the fuel to the engine, of course.

01:13:41.500 So, people may do the math.

01:13:46.480 When you do the math, you realize, hmm, all right.

01:13:53.040 You know, we were like, out of this, out of the links, we're the smallest link.

01:14:00.680 The smallest.

01:14:03.060 They were very powerful people that were pulling strings.

01:14:06.720 And for us to have gone this far, without being, hmm, we weren't noticed.

01:14:15.160 Noticed, but unnoticed, about these very specific major details.

01:14:21.480 You got to ask yourself some questions.

01:14:23.780 Bigger names than Frank.

01:14:26.660 Oh, yeah, man.

01:14:27.720 Come on, like, you know, I mean, you know.

01:14:29.940 And more and more, you know, you can see that some of those, those awards, you know.

01:14:37.800 Is it really ran properly, like, you know.

01:14:43.240 How are those decisions taken?

01:14:46.800 Who's in control?

01:14:49.620 That's, that's, I'm just putting it out there.

01:14:52.380 Let me ask you this.

01:14:53.000 I'm not pointing the finger.

01:14:54.280 I'm just saying, do the math.

01:14:55.400 Let's, let's be, you know.

01:14:57.100 And you have enough.

01:14:58.260 We've, we've been, we've been exposed to, to, to, to those.

01:15:03.360 And sometimes you wonder, like, oh, really?

01:15:05.220 I mean, you know, nowadays, auto tunes.

01:15:06.700 People can manipulate their voices.

01:15:08.220 Oh, that's, that's a whole other kind of worm.

01:15:10.260 Well, what I'm saying, what I'm saying to you is the following.

01:15:12.540 At that time, what happened with you and Rob, with what Frank did, using Charles and the other guys that were, you know, the real singer.

01:15:21.580 And.

01:15:21.800 And John Davis.

01:15:22.880 Yeah, that's right.

01:15:23.800 It was, it was actually the three names, right?

01:15:25.700 It's Charles, Angela Davis, and.

01:15:27.440 No, John Davis, Red Owl, and.

01:15:30.920 Yeah.

01:15:31.460 And then with Boney M, with Daddy Cool, and all those guys with Bobby.

01:15:37.540 Were there other names like that in the past as well?

01:15:39.800 Was that, was that a way of doing, was that very normal back then?

01:15:42.860 Why?

01:15:43.400 Because it's tough to do that.

01:15:45.460 You know, the whole story with Martha Walsh.

01:15:46.960 You know Martha Walsh.

01:15:47.800 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:15:48.540 Where she's singing.

01:15:50.360 It's Raining Man.

01:15:50.980 It's Raining Man, and it blows up, does very well, and then they use her.

01:15:55.480 Everybody dance now, CNC Music Factory, that became a big hit, but the rest wasn't her.

01:16:00.780 But that one part was, and she's like, wait a minute, this is my voice culture manager,

01:16:03.480 and I kind of get in front of it, and they're like, I own a part of this.

01:16:05.780 Why are you not using my, it's, it's, you can't teach a look.

01:16:10.360 You know what I'm saying?

01:16:11.040 You can't make somebody look like you and Rob.

01:16:13.040 No.

01:16:13.320 So you need somebody to be the face.

01:16:14.960 I'm asking if that was a business model back in the days pre-social media days, where you

01:16:20.920 guys weren't the only ones.

01:16:22.280 No, it was.

01:16:23.100 It was a business model.

01:16:24.140 It was a current practice.

01:16:25.540 Current today or then?

01:16:28.100 No.

01:16:29.880 We'll get to that.

01:16:30.840 But yes, the years, a lot of, because, you know, because of the world is different now.

01:16:40.520 You know, Europeans can't speak English now very well.

01:16:44.020 Back then, it was none of that, right?

01:16:46.560 So they used, for example, France.

01:16:51.660 There were a lot of very, very famous records turned out to be like lip synced, sang by somebody else.

01:16:59.800 Who?

01:17:00.040 Which, I'm not going to say nothing.

01:17:02.540 Well, what I know, the lip sync, the difference, there's two parts to lip sync.

01:17:05.680 One is, I just don't feel like I can perform well.

01:17:08.840 And I'm doing the inauguration.

01:17:09.960 My name is Beyonce.

01:17:10.820 Look, I didn't do it.

01:17:11.500 That was lip sync.

01:17:11.980 No, no, no.

01:17:12.560 But back then, it was just a business model because there were professional producers

01:17:17.660 who were working with English team or American teams.

01:17:22.100 And they were like, okay, you know, if you want to be international, it's got to be perfect.

01:17:26.860 It's got to be like an English accent, American accent.

01:17:30.560 So throughout Europe, there were teams that were working with, okay, they're a French citizen

01:17:36.800 or they're in Germany.

01:17:38.300 They would find the people who can do the dance and represent.

01:17:41.440 And then there was another team behind who would do it.

01:17:44.000 So it was a common practice.

01:17:45.360 So let me ask you this without asking you specific.

01:17:47.660 But I didn't know about that at all.

01:17:49.500 It's years later.

01:17:50.340 It comes out more and more every year.

01:17:52.660 So let me ask you.

01:17:53.960 So obviously, Bobby, is it Farrell, Bobby from Boney M?

01:17:59.580 The way he performs.

01:18:00.640 You can't teach a guy to perform that way, dance, the way he comes in, the way he looks.

01:18:04.000 He just looks like a player.

01:18:06.140 You need a guy like that to be a face, right?

01:18:08.860 You can't teach that to a shy guy saying, go move like him.

01:18:11.820 You can't teach somebody to move like Rob or have the background that you have, the looks

01:18:15.960 that you guys have to get up there.

01:18:17.720 But going back, you know the names of some people that have done this, right?

01:18:22.260 You know some other names.

01:18:23.120 That's not just Boney M or you or Martha Washington.

01:18:25.620 Are these big names that you know of that if you were to share the names, we would say,

01:18:29.820 you've got to be kidding me.

01:18:31.320 Oh, but some of it came out.

01:18:32.480 I just don't want to say the names.

01:18:33.380 No, I know that.

01:18:34.380 There's some that we don't know about that the industry knows about or no.

01:18:39.240 The ones that have come out, they've come out, people know about it.

01:18:41.140 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:18:41.680 Okay, so most of it is public.

01:18:43.060 Yeah, by now, most of it came public.

01:18:46.120 Even I grew up with some of those drivers like, really?

01:18:49.840 But it came out like, some of them came out like three years ago.

01:18:56.540 I was like, wow.

01:18:59.280 So it was a common practice.

01:19:01.880 It was because those teams that were working in France, you had professional teams working,

01:19:10.440 making music, and they wanted to compete because London, America was not the focus.

01:19:15.000 England was the focus, first step.

01:19:18.280 At that time.

01:19:19.080 That's right.

01:19:19.680 So they had, in order to land on an English chart, no way the French language would make it.

01:19:27.360 No way.

01:19:28.220 So it had to be in English.

01:19:30.440 So these people like Frank knew this.

01:19:34.460 Yeah, that was the point.

01:19:35.400 If you wanted to go international.

01:19:36.700 What do you think about that?

01:19:37.620 Like, let me ask you.

01:19:38.780 You're not fab, okay?

01:19:40.840 You're John Doe, okay?

01:19:42.740 But you know every detail that you guys went through.

01:19:46.020 You know all the details that you and Rob, even some of the stuff you've never disclosed publicly.

01:19:49.960 Right.

01:19:50.260 Right?

01:19:50.400 I'm talking all of it, behind closed doors.

01:19:53.460 Do you think what was done there should be accepted as art, or do you think it wasn't

01:20:00.080 right what you guys did?

01:20:01.060 Remember, John Doe looking, and he has access to all the information that you have.

01:20:05.340 Do you think what you guys did was right?

01:20:08.160 It's a part of art, or no, it wasn't art?

01:20:10.380 It's a tough question.

01:20:13.660 How can I reason?

01:20:14.720 The thing is, everything...

01:20:16.720 You know what I'm asking.

01:20:17.960 Yeah, I know what you're asking.

01:20:19.900 It's tough, because, you know, those...

01:20:22.440 If I look at Rob and Fab, they were manipulated into doing this, you know?

01:20:30.400 So me, looking at it from the outside, is it art looking back?

01:20:36.800 It's a tough question.

01:20:40.380 It's hard.

01:20:43.240 Tough for me to...

01:20:44.360 Was it wrong?

01:20:47.880 Well, we can look at it like that, you know?

01:20:52.440 When premeditated, it is wrong.

01:20:59.140 Those two kids were trapped in doing this.

01:21:03.240 So looking at it from the, you know, from a distance, is it art?

01:21:08.840 Art, yeah, it's a form of art.

01:21:12.300 It's twisted, though.

01:21:14.960 You know, but let's not forget that there were human beings at the center of it all.

01:21:19.940 They were used and abused.

01:21:22.100 And when the time came, thrown to the wolves.

01:21:24.820 Me and you and Rob.

01:21:25.640 Yeah, like nothing.

01:21:27.040 And it cost Rob's life at 32 years old.

01:21:29.020 Exactly.

01:21:29.480 He was suicidal multiple times, went to rehab 10 plus times.

01:21:32.700 True.

01:21:32.980 Yeah.

01:21:33.620 And you went to rehab as well, but you recovered from it.

01:21:35.500 I recovered from it.

01:21:37.280 But, you know, to go back to your answer, when I look at it with all the information that I have,

01:21:43.720 and you ask me whether or not it's a form of art, I don't know, it's a form of art.

01:21:52.580 Maybe to Frank, to him, maybe it's a sport.

01:21:56.840 You know, it's like, to him, it's art.

01:21:58.920 I can see that.

01:21:59.620 You understand?

01:22:00.020 Yeah, of course.

01:22:00.160 To him, it's like, listen, I'm going to make that happen.

01:22:03.840 He didn't know it was going to be that big.

01:22:06.100 You see?

01:22:06.760 He didn't know he was going to be that big?

01:22:08.140 Nah.

01:22:08.400 Why wouldn't he know, though?

01:22:09.740 But Bowen Yaman, those guys got big, 100 plus?

01:22:11.940 No, no, no.

01:22:12.860 No, he didn't know.

01:22:13.440 Because we, I remember, if I recall, in my memory bank, it wasn't, no one knew.

01:22:24.820 Only after a certain single, after maybe a second single, then it became possibly apparent.

01:22:32.440 But from the get-go, it wasn't apparent.

01:22:38.540 You know?

01:22:39.480 You know how I see it.

01:22:40.360 So for him, like I said, yeah, maybe for him, it's maybe a form of art to him.

01:22:47.140 But it's, it's, it's...

01:22:48.600 Is it to you?

01:22:51.440 Can't answer it, can you?

01:22:52.680 I can't.

01:22:53.580 I can't because it's, you know, I was a sinner.

01:22:56.660 I know those guys.

01:22:59.140 I was that guy.

01:23:00.160 You know?

01:23:03.380 And, and, and the pain, the, the, the effect, the consequences to that.

01:23:08.640 So can we call it art if you're going to, if, if the people at the center of this painting,

01:23:15.380 if he's going to take the life of one in order to achieve this painting in the name of art.

01:23:27.980 You, you know, you know how I process this?

01:23:31.600 Let me, let me share with you how I process this.

01:23:34.620 Because, you know, like, Vanilla Ice got, Vanilla Ice has been on our channel before.

01:23:38.800 Okay.

01:23:39.140 And we interviewed him.

01:23:40.320 And what was his challenge?

01:23:41.980 His challenge wasn't that, you know, he was lip sync or his challenge, his challenge was,

01:23:48.100 dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun.

01:23:51.980 That's the old from Queen, right?

01:23:54.620 That's right.

01:23:54.940 What's the name of the song?

01:23:56.020 Under Pressure or something like that, right?

01:23:57.600 One of my favorites.

01:23:58.120 And he says, no, mine is dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun.

01:24:03.300 So he says that last thing we didn't have.

01:24:04.920 Okay.

01:24:05.140 So he got hit for that.

01:24:06.320 He went up, came down.

01:24:07.360 It lasted 21 days for him, by the way.

01:24:09.120 Okay.

01:24:09.440 For you, it lasted two years.

01:24:10.580 For him, it lasted 21 days.

01:24:12.320 Boom.

01:24:12.720 Wow.

01:24:13.180 So I sit there and I say.

01:24:13.860 21 days.

01:24:14.400 21 days, right?

01:24:15.600 I mean, who doesn't remember this?

01:24:17.520 Play that funky music, white boy, you know, Vanilla Ice Ice.

01:24:21.900 Yo, I stopped.

01:24:22.500 You know, everybody remembers that song.

01:24:24.000 Even until today you listen to it.

01:24:25.540 You're like, listen, it's a pretty cool song.

01:24:27.520 I don't know why that stopped his momentum.

01:24:30.600 It was still art.

01:24:31.680 He was still practicing art.

01:24:32.820 Now, what you guys did is not Vanilla Ice because let's set that part aside what he did.

01:24:37.300 Yeah.

01:24:37.580 To me with you, I don't, you didn't steal anyone's, Charles knew what he was doing and Charles,

01:24:44.380 I'm assuming, got paid.

01:24:45.460 Yeah.

01:24:45.700 Yes?

01:24:46.120 Okay.

01:24:46.680 You knew you weren't singing and you got paid.

01:24:49.500 Frank knew what was going on and he got paid.

01:24:51.500 You guys didn't commit a crime.

01:24:55.180 You were actors.

01:24:57.320 So I'm trying to see, I mean, I understand because I don't know what Charles looks like.

01:25:02.940 The only reason I know what Charles looks like is because I was studying you so I went

01:25:05.560 and looked up the video.

01:25:06.240 I'm like, oh, that's what he looks like.

01:25:07.180 Cool.

01:25:07.280 That's right.

01:25:07.580 And Frank didn't see them as being face of, you know, no one's going to, because he says

01:25:12.520 something like, you guys can't sing, but those guys cannot be on the cover.

01:25:16.460 Frank seems like he was pretty cold the way he said it.

01:25:18.380 He was pretty cold because the thing is like, he never tested it.

01:25:21.020 He never tested you guys to sing like you were saying and Rob was saying.

01:25:23.300 Exactly.

01:25:24.000 But to go back to it, that's what I'm asking.

01:25:27.580 You know how they say this actor's a triple threat?

01:25:30.300 You know what a triple threat is?

01:25:31.360 Yeah, of course.

01:25:31.880 Somebody that can sing, dance, and act.

01:25:33.720 Just like old Hollywood.

01:25:35.420 Okay.

01:25:35.780 Somebody that can sing, dance, and act.

01:25:37.700 Yeah.

01:25:38.160 If you look at yours, you guys would be a double on these four songs.

01:25:45.420 Now, obviously, later on, you said we're taking singing lessons and even you perform the song.

01:25:49.820 I saw the video of you performing.

01:25:51.220 You got a voice.

01:25:52.420 It's not like you got a great voice.

01:25:53.740 You saw me on Arsenio Hall?

01:25:55.100 I saw you on Arsenio Hall.

01:25:56.260 Yeah, I saw that as well.

01:25:57.140 I even saw when Arsenio Hall at the end told the audiences, Rob was pissed off.

01:26:01.400 He said, I want to kick your ass if you don't let me play because Rob was trying to get him to perform.

01:26:05.200 I thought it was fun.

01:26:05.940 But you actually can sing.

01:26:08.140 It's not like you cannot sing.

01:26:10.580 But I look at this and I still look at it as a form of art because you know how to perform and you know how to act.

01:26:18.340 In those four songs, it's not your voice.

01:26:21.160 So you're not the singer.

01:26:22.500 Right.

01:26:22.660 So maybe you were a double threat.

01:26:24.240 You were not a triple threat.

01:26:25.180 It's interesting to look at it like that.

01:26:26.940 I'm giving you from John Doe's perspective.

01:26:28.840 Yeah, John Doe's perspective.

01:26:29.640 Oh, man, that's why I asked you to see what you would say.

01:26:32.020 Then I'm giving you my perspective to see how it's viewed.

01:26:35.580 Because, listen, my kids this week, so once we knew, you know, we got in the calendar, you coming to town,

01:26:42.760 I played a song for my son, Dylan and Senna, Dylan and Patrick.

01:26:47.080 And they said, can you play it again?

01:26:48.900 Yeah, I'll play it again.

01:26:49.960 Can you play it again?

01:26:50.640 So once we get on a song, we want to play.

01:26:52.220 So I play like 50 times.

01:26:53.400 Right.

01:26:54.140 Morning, 6.30, they wake up.

01:26:56.120 And I see my six-year-old son.

01:26:57.980 Girl, you know it's true.

01:27:00.280 Ooh, ooh.

01:27:01.240 What are you doing singing, girl?

01:27:02.440 He's singing, girl, you know it's true.

01:27:04.860 Dylan is singing, girl, you know it's true.

01:27:06.520 That's cute.

01:27:06.880 And then Jennifer's telling me, she's like, babe, you know, Dylan was singing Milli Vanilli today.

01:27:10.800 Girl, you know it's true.

01:27:11.520 I'm like, what's a great song?

01:27:13.080 Six years old.

01:27:14.000 Six years old.

01:27:14.760 That's awesome, man.

01:27:15.240 He's singing, girl, you know it's true.

01:27:15.880 Crossed generations.

01:27:16.900 And I tell you, he's also a guy that girls love him because he's got the look.

01:27:20.460 He's always been a charmer with women.

01:27:22.480 So he's going to probably play a lot of songs like that for women.

01:27:27.320 Looking back, my biggest question for you is the following.

01:27:31.560 We've got a few more minutes here.

01:27:33.000 My last question for you is, you know, all of us have humiliating moments.

01:27:38.460 Everybody, right?

01:27:40.560 Oh, my gosh.

01:27:41.820 I went up to the girl I like.

01:27:43.820 Hey, I want to take you out.

01:27:44.840 I would never date a guy like you.

01:27:46.900 Oh, my gosh.

01:27:47.840 It stays with you.

01:27:48.960 She rejected me.

01:27:50.160 Forever, right?

01:27:50.880 Yeah.

01:27:51.180 You go and you, you know, tell this guy off.

01:27:53.780 You know, the hell with you.

01:27:54.640 You push him.

01:27:55.240 He punches you, knocks you out in front of 100 people in school.

01:27:58.320 Everyone knows you as the guy that got knocked out by Billy, right?

01:28:02.320 Humiliating forever.

01:28:03.620 You're supposed to win the championship in high school.

01:28:06.340 You lose it in front of your dad.

01:28:07.820 He made the first game.

01:28:08.840 For the rest of your life, you remember, I lost the game.

01:28:11.280 I should have won.

01:28:12.060 My dad and my grandpa won't understand.

01:28:13.940 Everybody has humiliating moments, right?

01:28:15.940 Moments, yeah.

01:28:16.440 Most people don't know how to recover from it.

01:28:19.260 Right.

01:28:19.740 It's not easy, okay?

01:28:21.380 And no matter how many humiliating moments we've had that we put it together, I don't

01:28:28.820 think it comes close to the public scrutiny you guys got.

01:28:32.840 So the part I want to ask you is the following.

01:28:34.960 Here's the part I want to ask you.

01:28:35.860 I don't know what it's like to go to the point where you have a whole strategy where the girls

01:28:42.700 come meet at the base.

01:28:43.840 Then after the base, somebody is filtering them and saying, hey, Rob likes butts or Fav likes

01:28:50.520 tall girls.

01:28:51.260 He's legs.

01:28:51.920 He likes to bring them out.

01:28:53.080 He likes a nice face.

01:28:54.000 He likes, okay.

01:28:54.800 Then go and do them.

01:28:55.340 I don't know what it's like to party the way you guys are.

01:28:57.660 I don't know what it is to go everywhere and people say, oh my gosh, look at the voice.

01:29:01.080 It's so good.

01:29:01.420 I don't know what it is to be in the limo.

01:29:03.560 Girl, you know it's true.

01:29:04.400 Next station.

01:29:04.920 Girl, you know it's true.

01:29:05.580 Next station.

01:29:06.140 Not many people know what it feels like to be that person.

01:29:09.120 Okay.

01:29:10.760 Then comes the fall.

01:29:12.420 Rob couldn't handle it.

01:29:13.680 It was tough on him, right?

01:29:15.940 And a lot of it is deeper for Rob.

01:29:17.520 Rob is not here.

01:29:18.240 It's not fair for me to ask the question for you to guess because his dad was in Air Force.

01:29:23.180 Mom was a very attractive woman.

01:29:25.400 They meet.

01:29:26.120 Then they give him to adoption.

01:29:27.500 Somebody else takes some family.

01:29:28.600 That German family once this comes out, that even family wanted to kind of distance himself

01:29:32.880 a little bit from Rob.

01:29:33.720 So Rob kind of feels isolated alone.

01:29:35.320 The only person he has in his life is who?

01:29:37.420 You.

01:29:37.580 Nobody else.

01:29:38.260 Like a brother to him.

01:29:38.960 Younger brother.

01:29:40.560 So he ends up, whatever the autopsy is, you know, some say suicide, some say drugs, all

01:29:45.740 this stuff.

01:29:46.100 But you know, the one person he had in his life who actually was his sister.

01:29:52.440 She was also adopted.

01:29:53.620 Blood?

01:29:54.520 No.

01:29:55.020 Adopted as well.

01:29:56.100 Adopted.

01:29:56.620 Yeah.

01:29:56.780 So she was still there with him.

01:29:59.000 She was a big part of his life.

01:30:01.640 Is she still around today?

01:30:02.580 She's still around today.

01:30:03.860 Yeah.

01:30:04.000 Interesting.

01:30:04.620 So she was supportive of helping him get out of it.

01:30:06.920 Yeah.

01:30:07.520 She was the anchor for a long time.

01:30:09.920 That's good.

01:30:10.360 You're giving her credit.

01:30:11.100 I'm sure she's going to see this.

01:30:12.860 But you, you were able to distance yourself from, and I saw one part where you said, I

01:30:19.720 didn't leave the house, I'd go shopping late at night because I didn't just want to go,

01:30:22.720 you know, shopping when everybody was.

01:30:24.880 So you kind of stayed in your place for a couple of years.

01:30:27.560 What was your method of recovery after all this madness to get yourself to be where you

01:30:33.580 are today, where you're smiling, you're happy, you seem very fulfilled, you're performing,

01:30:40.160 you're practicing your music, you're DJing, you're out there working on projects, you've

01:30:44.460 got stuff going on in France, you've got stuff that's going on, you're looking forward to

01:30:48.340 the future.

01:30:49.060 Yeah.

01:30:49.220 How do you go from that fall to being where you are today?

01:30:53.140 Well, I would say that the one ingredient to this is music.

01:31:00.900 And music, like I told you when I was a kid, it was my lifeline.

01:31:07.220 You know, and through the years, I've grown closer and closer to music.

01:31:10.900 And when it was, when everything, when the chips fell, I said, you know, I don't want

01:31:18.720 to live my life without music.

01:31:20.540 I don't see it.

01:31:22.120 So got to go back to the drawing board.

01:31:25.520 That's number one.

01:31:27.860 Learn how to write a song.

01:31:30.200 So number one is passion.

01:31:31.540 Passion is number one.

01:31:32.420 Go back to your passion.

01:31:33.200 Go back to your passion and work on your skills.

01:31:38.360 Work on those skills day in, day out, songwriting, playing guitar, understanding

01:31:44.240 production, go full on.

01:31:47.300 And that's where I lived a very lonely life, but I had no problem.

01:31:53.760 I'm a loner.

01:31:54.920 So, but I knew that time was, was of the essence and the amount of time that I had

01:32:00.300 to invest in myself, I hoped my instinct, the voices were saying it could, it could

01:32:08.340 maybe work.

01:32:09.240 We don't know.

01:32:09.700 So I worked on faith, you know, faith, just pushing myself.

01:32:14.500 But seeing progress, when you see progress, just like, you know, basketball player, you

01:32:21.280 know, like, you know, you, you work for a year, you make a plan.

01:32:25.260 Okay.

01:32:25.660 Your three throw is good.

01:32:26.940 Now you get the three pointer, you know, what to angle, you know, you know what part of

01:32:32.260 the court to use, that's your best spot, footwork is on.

01:32:36.880 And that's what I've been doing through the years, working on, on all that, working on

01:32:40.760 my skills, whether it's performing, songwriting, producing, and now producing some of my music.

01:32:48.800 How does the industry look at you now when you see them?

01:32:51.440 Have they completely forgotten about it and they don't bring it up and it's just kind

01:32:54.180 of like doing business with the new fam?

01:32:57.340 Yeah.

01:32:57.840 There are people that are totally excited about joining forces with me because the thing

01:33:01.880 is being underestimated is one of the best places to be.

01:33:05.040 I agree.

01:33:05.660 I love it.

01:33:06.660 I totally agree.

01:33:07.380 I strive on that because meeting the hype, very few can meet up the hype.

01:33:11.700 So now when the expectations are so low and you surpass them, then I could play, that you

01:33:18.280 could play into your favor in a major way and you can build up on that.

01:33:21.620 And then suddenly you can really create something very solid because after all those years, you

01:33:28.940 know, I've learned a few things and a few things are, you know, there's music and there's

01:33:35.480 music business and the business of music and music is not the only, the only thing that

01:33:42.100 I'm after.

01:33:42.740 I've been developing a few things through my journey.

01:33:47.640 You're excited about life?

01:33:49.160 I'm excited about life.

01:33:50.600 What are you looking forward to?

01:33:52.100 I'm looking forward to become who I'm supposed to be.

01:33:59.420 And creativity being my sword will allow me to do that.

01:34:06.540 My creativity, my discipline, those two.

01:34:11.580 For anyone out there, you know, creativity in anything you do, even for you and your business.

01:34:16.600 One of the reasons why you became so successful is because of your creativity, your drive and

01:34:21.280 focus.

01:34:22.360 So when you have those few factors into play and you play with them and you keep them close,

01:34:28.620 you know, and you keep on challenging yourself daily, well, action is called reaction.

01:34:36.120 There's going to be results.

01:34:38.760 And out of that, you take it, you take that ball further into, you know, making that, those,

01:34:46.140 you know, those three throw or whether there may be.

01:34:49.580 So getting closer to where you want to be.

01:34:52.100 Do you feel like you've already experienced redemption or not yet?

01:34:55.940 I think I have.

01:34:57.040 You think you have?

01:34:58.160 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:34:58.860 So if nothing else happens for the rest of your life, everything else that you plan on

01:35:04.200 going big, nothing goes big, you feel like you've already redeemed yourself from words

01:35:09.500 to where you are today.

01:35:10.440 Yeah.

01:35:10.800 How do you measure that?

01:35:12.460 I measure that by the love I receive from people.

01:35:16.800 You know, we live in a different world now.

01:35:18.440 We live in a, there's no middleman between the fans and me.

01:35:22.560 And if anyone goes and peeks at what people are talking about, when my name is brought

01:35:29.940 up, because my goal was to make sure that mili-vanili, the word, the words mili-vanili

01:35:36.320 meant when you fall, you stand back up.

01:35:40.580 I think that's a very...

01:35:42.060 That's an adjective.

01:35:43.620 I think that's a beautiful thing.

01:35:44.840 When you think about mili-vanili, when you fall, you come, by the way, just to, out

01:35:49.880 of curiosity, do you listen to those songs yourself?

01:35:52.560 Like, do you enjoy listening to them?

01:35:54.660 I perform them all the time.

01:35:56.460 Do you listen to it outside of you performing?

01:35:58.520 Do you listen to the songs?

01:36:03.220 I know you perform them all the time.

01:36:04.800 I see them all the time.

01:36:05.420 But, you know, the thing is, when you are a musician, like a songwriter like me, there's

01:36:10.840 many ways of listening, you know?

01:36:13.660 And sometimes I'm surprised.

01:36:15.960 Like, Girl, I'm Gonna Miss You is one of them that I listen to, because the fact that

01:36:21.100 it's a mood, it's a classic song, you know?

01:36:25.780 It's got that hip-hop kind of, the groove, it's got the hip-hop feel, classic, you know?

01:36:30.240 I Need Love, L-I-Q-J, flavor.

01:36:32.620 And you've got those gospel chords that are placed on top of it.

01:36:37.140 Again, puzzle, the foundation.

01:36:39.940 And it almost has this religious feel to it that grabs you, you know?

01:36:47.160 Especially women gravitate towards that one.

01:36:50.780 And I see it day in, day out, when I'm on stage.

01:36:55.060 Years and years later, it just grabs them.

01:37:00.700 Emotionally, you know, it just grabs you.

01:37:03.280 Girl, I'm Gonna Miss You.

01:37:04.520 Yeah, girl.

01:37:05.080 Is that your favorite one out of all of them?

01:37:06.780 It's one of my favorite, I would say.

01:37:08.180 And actually, one of the most successful ones.

01:37:09.780 John Davis was on that.

01:37:13.360 Yeah, Girl, I'm Gonna Miss You is...

01:37:15.520 Powerful.

01:37:16.420 ...legit.

01:37:16.780 Solid.

01:37:18.640 Yeah, oh my gosh.

01:37:19.700 No, I mean, listen.

01:37:20.720 And those three.

01:37:22.040 The one, Baby, Give Me Your Number.

01:37:24.240 Baby, Don't Forgive My Number.

01:37:25.220 Don't Forgive My Number.

01:37:26.000 To me, that's...

01:37:27.000 Top three to me is, you know, those...

01:37:31.920 Those, the Blame It On The Rain is probably gonna be third.

01:37:34.220 Ooh, Blame It On The Rain.

01:37:34.800 You know, it's probably gonna be Girl, I'm Gonna Miss You and...

01:37:37.840 But in Europe and in America, it's different.

01:37:39.620 It's a different story, yeah.

01:37:40.780 You know?

01:37:41.780 When I was in Europe, I mean, these songs were played on everything that we were doing.

01:37:46.160 Everything.

01:37:46.520 When I was in Germany, everything was Milli Vanilli.

01:37:48.740 Everything was about...

01:37:49.520 You know what I'm saying?

01:37:49.780 Yeah, everything.

01:37:50.700 David Hasselhoff was big at that time because he had some hits.

01:37:54.060 But Milli Vanilli was, like, everywhere at that time.

01:37:57.920 Well, you know, I appreciate you for coming out.

01:38:01.100 It was a pleasure.

01:38:01.720 And I got a lot of respect for you, man.

01:38:03.400 Thank you.

01:38:03.660 Truly, I got a lot of respect for you.

01:38:04.320 It was great talk because the conversation was different.

01:38:06.460 Yeah.

01:38:06.920 You do things differently, you know, and I like that.

01:38:09.360 And it's always fun to be challenged, to be...

01:38:12.440 Because, you know, any conversation like this one, like I said, action equal reaction.

01:38:19.320 So I leave, just like the people that are going to watch it, who are watching it, will get something out of that.

01:38:25.720 But out of this conversation also gets something out of you as well.

01:38:31.480 So it's...

01:38:32.720 Yeah, but I don't think there are many people like you in the world that has the story that you have.

01:38:38.180 I think you have a one-of-a-kind story.

01:38:39.600 There's one-of-a-kind story.

01:38:40.640 Yeah.

01:38:40.760 Your story is not a normal story.

01:38:42.520 And I think that, you know, things happen for a reason, and I stand for the dream.

01:38:47.720 And if everything that happened to me is to bring me back and show people, listen, anything is possible.

01:38:52.900 If I fell and the conditions were harsh, I went through the storm, I went through hell, I came back stronger.

01:39:00.560 It's possible to come back out stronger.

01:39:03.400 But make sure that you face your fears and demons.

01:39:07.900 It's very important.

01:39:09.620 Now that people bring it up, is it just water off your back?

01:39:11.540 Like, it doesn't do anything to you when people bring it up.

01:39:14.260 It doesn't hurt you an ounce.

01:39:15.980 I'm fine with it.

01:39:16.860 When they go after Rob, then I get a little...

01:39:21.180 It's a little...

01:39:22.260 Because, you know, like you said, I like the way you said it.

01:39:24.560 You said, Rob's not here to defend himself.

01:39:26.760 He can't really answer his questions.

01:39:28.800 And it's true.

01:39:29.600 And sometimes when they go after him, I'm like, ah, it just...

01:39:32.540 You know, the scars kind of like...

01:39:35.540 You know, that you think sometimes are healed.

01:39:38.980 Then they're fresh, certainly.

01:39:40.320 You know, you know.

01:39:41.460 Wow.

01:39:42.340 You know.

01:39:43.360 That tells us how close the two of you guys were together.

01:39:47.460 We were close.

01:39:48.080 That tells us.

01:39:49.160 And the fact that he left so abruptly, but I knew that this day possibly could happen because

01:39:58.580 of what he was doing, you know.

01:40:01.140 He lost his foothold to life, you know.

01:40:06.060 And, but he was dealing with other things that I was dealing with.

01:40:10.980 You know, my stronghold, my hanker was music.

01:40:15.500 That was a goal.

01:40:16.620 And I was lucky to meet Kim Marlow, my manager, who helped me to go up my mountain, you know,

01:40:22.760 at total speed, but the total never fails.

01:40:27.080 Progress is the key.

01:40:28.020 I love the way you put it.

01:40:28.980 Number one, go back to your passion.

01:40:30.940 Number two, improving a skill that has to do with your passion.

01:40:34.140 Yes.

01:40:34.620 Number three, bank on your faith.

01:40:37.080 Have faith that things are going to get better.

01:40:38.940 And number four, keep making progress.

01:40:41.020 No matter what speed.

01:40:41.720 No matter.

01:40:42.420 No matter.

01:40:42.760 You do that.

01:40:43.280 It's never too late.

01:40:43.900 It's never too late.

01:40:44.760 Eventually it's going to work itself out.

01:40:46.360 Brother, thank you for coming out, man.

01:40:48.020 Thank you for coming out.

01:40:49.320 Bam.

01:40:49.600 And being a guest, man.

01:40:50.280 I really enjoyed it.

01:40:51.560 Really, really enjoyed it.

01:40:52.520 Thank you.

01:40:52.540 Appreciate you for coming out.

01:40:53.640 Thank you.

01:40:54.120 And you're awesome.

01:40:56.060 Thank you.

01:40:56.220 Because, you know, the one thing is when you do interviews with people, some people wave,

01:41:01.180 like, you know, when I talk about body language, you're here, you're right there,

01:41:06.540 you're in the moment.

01:41:07.280 Because in the moment, that's where things happen.

01:41:10.180 So when you're aware and you're awake, the sleeper in you is going to wake up and things

01:41:15.540 are going to change.

01:41:16.940 I agree, my man.

01:41:18.320 Thank you.

01:41:19.020 Thanks, everybody, for listening.

01:41:20.260 And by the way, if you haven't already subscribed to Valuetainment on iTunes, please do so.

01:41:24.880 Give us a five-star.

01:41:26.300 Write a review if you haven't already.

01:41:27.780 And if you have any questions for me that you may have, you can always find me on Snapchat,

01:41:31.780 Instagram, Facebook, or YouTube.

01:41:33.600 Just search my name, Patrick Bid David.

01:41:35.760 And I actually do respond back when you snap me or send me a message on Instagram.

01:41:40.500 With that being said, have a great day today.

01:41:42.300 Take care, everybody.

01:41:43.040 Bye-bye.

Valuetainment - April 10, 2020

Episode 453： Fab Morvan - Untold Stories Of Milli Vanilli

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