Episode 466： Collapse of China Explained By Chinese American Lawyer
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 24 minutes
Words per minute
169.45757
Harmful content
Misogyny
3
sentences flagged
Hate speech
53
sentences flagged
Summary
In this episode of Value Timing, I sit down with a 20-year lawyer who has lived and worked in China for over 20 years, and has a completely different view on why he believes the collapse of China is around the corner.
Transcript
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I'm Patrick Bader, your host of Value Tim, and today I'm sitting down with a lawyer,
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a 20-year lawyer who worked in China for two of the biggest law firms in the world,
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and he has a complete different view on why he believes the collapse of China is around the corner.
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Gordon, thank you so much for making the time to be a guest with us here on Value Timing.
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So if I may get into it, this is the approach I'd like to take with this on this interview,
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and the reason why I'm taking this approach is the following reason.
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My Instagram account, my messages, my email, ever since we interviewed General Spalding from the Air Force,
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which I think you two have worked together on a couple different projects,
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You were recently in a documentary together that came out a couple days ago,
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and he ended up getting 7 million views, and people contacted us all over the place.
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So then we brought on board Danielle DiMartino Booth yesterday.
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We talked about the effects of coronavirus to the economy, and it's just the amount of commentary
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and people's interest in it, it's a whole different place.
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But also at the same time, a lot of interviews on YouTube, on Vimeo, all over social media,
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have gone viral, whether it's, you know, Joe Rogan did it with Michael Osterhold,
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or to David Icke with Brian Rose from London Real that's gone all over the place,
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and the video has been taken down from YouTube, from Vimeo, from a lot of different platforms,
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or General Spalding, or Dr. Shiva, or Fauci, or a lot of names.
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The direction I want to go with this is the following.
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I would like to bring up all of these different conspiracy theories that are coming up,
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and for you to say, nope, there's no truth behind that.
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So you can either tell us zero credibility behind it, maybe 50%, and that is not a conspiracy.
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So if you don't mind us going through that direction, I think the viewers would like to see it from a person
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that's a lawyer, Cornell University, who's lived in China for two decades, and has been over here.
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Maybe you're going to give us a different perspective.
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I mean, it's sickened hundreds of thousands of people around the world, and it is not done
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We tend to think that because it is a coronavirus that it will disappear in the summer, but we
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So we're just going to have to wait and see because it is surprising us day by day.
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Number two, is it a natural virus that came from the, you know, wet market where it's not
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Or is it man-made, intentionally made to use as a biowarfare chemical to go against an enemy?
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Well, so far, the science says that it is a natural, that it is there.
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There have been a couple papers which have talked about it being engineered, but those
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papers have not received general acceptance in the scientific community.
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The one thing, though, that's really important, Patrick, is that Beijing has done its best to
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hinder foreign virologists and epidemiologists from going into Wuhan, the epicenter, and studying
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The World Health Organization sent a team into China.
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They were there for maybe about two weeks, but they were only in Wuhan for two days, February
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They only were able to send part of the team, and really, they did not have the opportunity
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I think these were more or less sort of like get-to-know-you meetings.
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So Beijing has really worked very hard to prevent us from learning what's going on.
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And because of that, of course, we got to say most everything is on the table, but we have
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been able to study this bug because it's gotten out beyond China's borders.
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And so far, it looks like it is a natural coronavirus.
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It looks like it is a natural coronavirus or it's man-made?
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No, it is not man-made from most of the science that we have seen so far.
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Not every scientist will agree with that conclusion, but until somebody comes up with a striking
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discovery, the consensus is that this is not man-made.
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So, by the way, that's interesting for you to say that because there's a lot of people
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that are saying it is man-made and it is intentional.
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How much of what is going on right now is due to a president like Donald Trump, whose entire
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career has been based on the art of the deal to be able to negotiate and strong-arm his opponent
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So, he decided to go against the biggest opponent of U.S., which happens to be China.
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And he used every single leverage, knowing how much business China does with U.S., knowing
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how much import we do from their relying on U.S. economy.
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So, the more and more tariffs he put, China said, if this is the kind of a game you want
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to play, you know, China's always been a kind of a person that they don't fight like you
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They typically fight by using whether it's proxies or, you know, oh, we didn't do it.
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How much of it has to do with them using coronavirus as a method to retaliate to Donald Trump's approach
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Yeah, I don't think that this is about Donald Trump at all.
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There's a lot that we can say about the origin of the virus, and maybe we should circle back,
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because a lot of people say, well, because this probably wasn't engineered, it was just
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sort of like naturally occurring, you know, it jumped to humans at that wet market in Wuhan.
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Well, maybe so, but there's a lot of science that says that it wasn't Patrick.
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It didn't come from there, because there are a number of initial patients who had no
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And although if you go back two weeks, people were saying, you know, the idea this came from
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a lab was conspiratorial, this could very well have been the release of a natural virus from
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one of those two labs that people have been talking about.
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One of those two labs near Wuhan is the Wuhan Institute of Virology.
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China has told us that they stored 1,500 varieties of coronavirus in that lab.
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And so a lot of people are saying, well, this is an accidental release.
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This gets to a number of different points that eventually I will answer your question.
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This has been, you know, a bug which has ravaged China.
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What they have done, though, is really striking.
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So, for instance, they knew about this in Beijing sometime, maybe first week of December,
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In November, the second week of December, maybe the third week, leaders in Beijing knew that
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this could be transmitted from one human to the next.
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Because doctors in Wuhan knew that by at least the second week of December.
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But China's leaders didn't actually admit this to the world until January 20th.
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Now, just sort of sitting on that information would have been highly irresponsible.
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What they did was, in that interim, where they knew that this was contagious, one person to
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the next, they actually tried to convince the world that it was not human to human transmissible.
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And we saw this, for instance, in that January 14th tweet from the World Health Organization,
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which said, you know, based on the information from China, we see no clear proof that this
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The reason why that's important is because Beijing actually tried to lull the world into
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And at the same time, Patrick, Beijing was really working very hard to prevent countries
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The way this bug got out of China was people, people who travel.
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Beijing did two things during a critical period.
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It tried to deceive the world about how this was transmitted.
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And it made sure that countries did not prevent people arriving from China.
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Now, I don't know what was in the mind of Xi Jinping, the Chinese ruler, but he saw clearly
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So if he actually wanted to cripple other countries, he, in fact, would have done exactly what he
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So we have to be concerned that this has nothing to do with Trump.
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I think that it's because Xi Jinping realized how bad things were in China.
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He wanted to level the playing field, the geopolitical playing field.
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So he allowed this virus, he actually deliberately took steps to push this virus outside of China
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This was Xi Jinping taking a bad situation and trying to turn it to China's advantage.
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Those are pretty powerful words, what you just said right there, Gordon.
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This was an intentional spread of the virus beyond China.
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I don't mean to interrupt, but when you say that, what level of certainty do you have in
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It's just an issue of analysis that when you look at what they, in fact, did, there is
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no other explanation for it other than that they intentionally wanted this to spread beyond
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China, because this is, this is not just a question of keeping it secret because they were embarrassed.
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But when they then tried to tell other countries, oh, don't worry about this.
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This can't be transmitted human to human, what it did was it actually took other public health
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officials in other countries that did not take those precautions that they otherwise would
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And we also know something similar happened with their infection and death statistics.
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We heard the White House Coronavirus Task Force Coordinator, Dr. Deborah Birx, talk about
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how they looked at the statistics from China in terms of new cases and deaths.
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And they said, oh, this is like SARS, which was the 2002-2003 epidemic, which although it
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had a high mortality rate, was not very contagious.
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So basically what Beijing, so what the White House did was essentially say, okay, we don't
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It was only after the US saw what happened in Italy and Spain that they realized that they
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had a far bigger problem on their hands, that this would become not just an epidemic,
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in China, but a global pandemic, it would affect the US.
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And that's why I think the White House took precautions much later than it otherwise would
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So you put all that stuff together and the question is, well, why would Beijing do this?
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I can't think of another explanation other than that they saw that they had an opportunity
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But what they saw after it hurt China was that they decided that they were going to spread
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Gordon, before I go to the next conspiracy to ask you about, is if that is a factual statement
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of six weeks, how are they held accountable by the world tribunal?
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What is the level of accountability to them that all the other countries can come out and
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Is there any way of holding them responsible for waiting six weeks?
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Well, there's a number of different ways to do that.
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There are some cases in US federal district courts in Florida, Texas and Nevada.
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I don't think they're going to get anywhere because there's something called the Foreign
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You just can't go out and sue another country in US federal court unless you can get around
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some exceptions, unless you can take advantage of some exceptions.
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There's also the International Court of Justice, but that won't work because China has to agree
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to jurisdiction and of course it never would do so.
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But countries are in possession effectively of assets of China.
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For instance, China is holding more than a trillion dollars worth of US Treasury bills
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So we can take those just with the flick of a pen and other countries can do the same thing.
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And I'm not saying that the US should do this by itself.
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I don't think we should because China would say that that was a repudiation of debt.
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They would slam us for being irresponsible custodians of the global financial system.
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But they would be able to say that if we took this action in conjunction with the issuers
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So for instance, Ottawa, London, Brussels, Tokyo.
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If we did that in connection with them, then that's somewhat of an effective measure.
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Now, we can't confiscate enough of China's assets to compensate us for the economic damage
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But nonetheless, we need to do something to deter China and other bad actors from doing
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You know, we'll never get compensated for this.
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Even with the economic damage, you know, China doesn't have enough in terms of assets.
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And one other thing, Patrick, and that is that what China's leaders did is a crime against humanity.
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If it isn't, then there is no such concept and there is no such thing.
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So I think countries need to hold Xi Jinping and other senior Chinese leaders responsible.
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And if we can ever get our hands on them, we need the 21st century version of the Nuremberg
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That could look like what we saw with German leaders, with Japanese leaders after the Second
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But we've never seen a crime like this in history.
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No country has ever attacked every other country.
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It's hard for us to grasp the magnitude of what's occurred.
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But unfortunately, that's the conclusion that we have to face.
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And, you know, going forward for our children, forget ourselves, but for our children and
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for the rest of the world, we need to impose a cost on China so that no regime ever does
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There's a big difference between Germany and Japan versus China, because neither Germany
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nor Japan had 17 percent of world GDP at the time when we did that.
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You're talking about, you know what, this almost reminds me of when you're going there.
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It's almost reminds me of the whole too big to fail type of situation, because on one
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end, if you do anything to them, how many economies are tied to China, where China definitely
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knows that because, you know, there's a game of leverage and they know their level of leverage
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because as much as we're talking about masks, this and China, this and China, that we're
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We're relying on them on a lot of different things.
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So do you think for them when they're sitting in the boardroom and nobody else is around the
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big decision makers, they're saying, let it loose, relax for six weeks, let it get bigger.
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Let's hurt some of these guys for them to really know how afraid they are.
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And they're going to do nothing about it because they're relying on us on X, Y, Z.
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And because of that, if they even think about doing anything to us, we're going to hurt them
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because they're going to make sure we have to stay in business to do what we're doing
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Do you think they went that deep into processing this before they made the decision to let it be
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All I know is there's no other explanation for, you know, this other than a deliberate
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But, you know, Patrick, I think we have to worry a lot less than we normally would at first glance
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Yes, we're critically reliant on pharma and that we've got to reduce regardless of whatever.
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It is a big number, but we can do it because they are not the world's only producer of active
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And, you know, it'll be hard, but eventually we've got to do this anyway.
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But the one thing that we always think about, we think, oh, China's the engine of global growth.
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Yes, they've got a lot of growth, but they're not the engine.
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Because to be an engine of global growth, a country has got to buy the goods and services
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And what China has done through predatory trade policies and through the theft of intellectual
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property has taken growth from other countries.
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Australia, for instance, sells them a lot of iron ore, but that iron ore is put into products
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that end up, you know, in the shelves of Europe and the United States.
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So I think that essentially Australia will be selling to India or Vietnam or someplace else
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These global supply chains, if they are forced, will readjust.
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And they're already doing that anyway for a number of reasons.
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You know, Xi Jinping has been pushing companies out of China.
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Also, President Trump's so-called trade war has been pulling companies out of China.
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Because of the coronavirus epidemic, we are going to reduce our reliance on China as a producer
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of pharmaceuticals and obviously medical protective equipment.
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But I think that they're certainly going to be accelerated and they should be accelerated.
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Obviously, I know U.S. is 100 percent the engine.
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We escaped Iran to go to Germany refugee camp to come here because this is the American
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You know, and when you can produce things for nothing by a communistic government ran on
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a, you know, wink, wink, capitalistic economy controlled by national, I mean, so it concerns
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me to know 17 percent and it concerns me to know how many countries are relying on them.
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I'm sure we're going to come back to this topic again.
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You're hearing some people talk about the fact that, look, 99 percent of people that died
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in Italy, the number one cause wasn't coronavirus.
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They were there for another case and they had other health symptoms, which they had gone to
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the hospital before, but it happened to be that they also got coronavirus because maybe
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their immune system wasn't that strong, so they caught something.
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So then the hospital had to put it that the reason for the person dying was coronavirus
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and that spikes up the numbers and it scares the hell out of everybody around the world.
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How much credibility do you put on the topic of the fact that people who have died, they
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Yeah, I'm sure that in certain cases, coronavirus was only a contributing factor.
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You know, I'm also sure that a number of people who have died, you know, they weren't getting
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autopsies, especially in an emergency situation.
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They could have had coronavirus and are not counted as coronavirus cases.
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So, you know, counting of cases in an epidemic where there's a medical emergency, you know,
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society on the verge of collapse, you know, statistical accuracy is probably not at the top of the
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list of priorities of a government in that case.
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And, you know, we know, for instance, in Wuhan, you know, that was authorities there were being
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So accurately counting coronavirus cases, not important for them.
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They were just trying to sweep up corpses on the streets and hospital floors.
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Oh, in China, in Wuhan, in the early days of the outbreak, the authorities were just completely
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You had people literally dropping dead in the streets.
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You had corpses on hospital floors for more than 12 hours.
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So this was a system that was being overwhelmed.
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And the point I'm making is there were a couple of reasons why the statistics out of China, out
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One of them is just that the authorities just did not have the capability to accurately count
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And of those two cases, of those two reasons, deliberate falsehood was certainly, I think,
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the more important in terms of distorting the death toll and the number of infections.
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How much do you trust the data that we're getting from U.S. on cases to death toll?
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And as I mentioned, there are a number of reasons why we won't ever get an exact, accurate toll.
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As I mentioned, you don't do autopsies on people who have died.
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So this is a case of, you know, testing and whatever.
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Our numbers, I'm sure, lag the real situation, but that's true in every country.
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I don't think that there is an attempt to underplay this, but we did see that, of course, in China,
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because there are, there's a lot of evidence that shows that, indeed, those death toll numbers
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could not have been true, could not be accurate.
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Is there any linkage between coronavirus and 5G?
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I don't know, but I would be very surprised if there were.
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Because I can't think of why there would be a linkage between the two.
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And unless someone comes up with proof, and I don't think that they will, we can just discard
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Who would be the right person to talk to about that, by the way?
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That's not politically connected to an organization that's funded by the government or some big
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name that's funding it behind closed doors that the guy's not going to tell the truth.
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Who would be the right person to talk to about that?
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I mean, you have to find basically someone who was an epidemiologist, a virologist, and
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And by the way, you'd have to find someone who wasn't working for a telecom company, who
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wasn't working for, you know, that person, you know, I'd love to have that person.
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That person would be very interesting to sit down with.
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Because we keep, you know, we want to sit down with people who are promoting the 5G
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So would they really say anything bad about it?
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And then there are those that are working for a nonprofit that's being funded by some
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of these bigger corporations that are selling 5G.
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So would they really say anything to the man that's cutting the check?
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A lot of people are talking about 5G and coronavirus because of the whole radiation and how it's
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Next, is coronavirus a method of eliminating the older population to save countries money
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because all this health care cost is really coming from those that are above 70, 75 years
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And maybe this is going to allow us to indirectly depopulate to help the world economy go better.
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But I will say that there are more than just a small number of people in China who actually
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think that this was a way to get rid of the elderly, but that's complete conspiracy theory.
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And so, it's almost like the next four are combined.
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So, I'll kind of say it then in a way that maybe you'll see where I'm going with this.
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The World Health Organization, the number one funder is the U.S. government.
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The second largest contributor to the World Health Organization is a man named Bill Gates.
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So, this man named Bill Gates, if you've never heard of him, he's very rich.
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Bill Gates, in 2015, gave a TED Talk regarding the biggest threat being pandemics and how that's something we need to be worried about.
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But also, in 2011, he did an interview with Dr. Gupta of CNN.
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I think it's February 4th when they did an interview.
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And a lot of people were talking about the fact that Bill Gates' biggest messaging is depopulation.
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So, I go to Snopes and I pull it up and it says, inaccurate, false.
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Then, it puts the transcript on the bottom, which I have it.
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I'd like to read it because this leads me to a question here.
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The question asked by Dr. Gupta is, $10 billion over the next 10 years to make it the year of the vaccine.
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Bill Gates, over this decade, we believe unbelievable progress can be made in both inventing new vaccines and making sure that they get out to all the children who need them.
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We only need about six or seven more and then you would have all the tools to reduce childhood death, next word he uses, reduce population growth and everything.
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The stability, the environment benefits from that, et cetera, et cetera.
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I went and typed in the following words on Google and the words were, this is what I searched.
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I typed in, I want to get the exact words that I have here, Bill Gates, Dr. Gupta, reduce population, 2011.
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The first link that came at the top was the Snopes that said it's not factual, it's false.
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The second link that came up was a CNN link to the article and the interview of February, 2011.
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When I clicked on it, the link was a dead link.
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Then I tried it on my phone, then I tried it on another phone, it was all a dead link.
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Then I had one of my employees here is from Norway who uses a VPN from Norway to try to go log in from a Norway VPN.
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When he gets into the site, his link with the transcript was there, but the video was taken down.
00:29:07.380
So, after our research team did some research, we finally found the video and that exact video between Dr. Gupta and Bill Gates where he talks about reducing population growth.
00:29:17.760
You know, a big part of this when you look at China buying a big part of Africa because of natural resources, this is not something that's private.
00:29:25.500
The world knows about this. It's not like I'm just throwing something out there that's non-factual.
00:29:31.200
That's factual. You can kind of see the amount of property in Lander Binder.
00:29:35.060
The countries that are growing the fastest population-wise, most of them are in Africa.
00:29:39.520
Not saying all of them, but a lot of them are in Africa.
00:29:45.920
In the U.S., I think it's at 1.38, some number, 1.08 to 1.38.
00:29:50.640
And I think China's at 0.38 right now, give or take.
00:29:53.200
Sometimes they're saying it's negative, but that's the number you're seeing.
00:29:55.500
How much do you buy into the idea that Bill Gates and the vaccines and the pandemics,
00:30:05.520
this was all orchestrated by the powerful people who are kind of preparing for this to come up
00:30:12.520
It's almost like, here's the problem, the Hegelian dialectic.
00:30:20.820
How much of it is that, or do you think that's a conspiracy theory?
00:30:24.200
Yeah, I don't think Bill Gates is trying to reduce population by, and I can't quite think
00:30:34.300
of the word, but I don't think that Bill Gates is out to kill people or whatever.
00:30:40.520
Bill Gates probably believes that there should be fewer humans, and he would like to improve
00:30:45.940
human health. But that doesn't mean that he's trying to improve human health and vaccines
00:30:50.500
to sort of reduce the overall number of people.
00:30:55.520
I mean, I would disagree with him on certain things, but I don't think he's malevolent.
00:31:06.980
Okay, next, the World Health Organization, you keep hearing about Tedros Adhanom,
00:31:13.940
and you're seeing a lot of friendliness with him and China, and he's sat down with Xi Jinping.
00:31:22.380
You've seen this before. I'm not the first person that's bringing this up.
00:31:25.220
How much a World Health Organization is being controlled by the influence of China on what
00:31:31.400
to report, what not to report, slow roll, you know, the dates at first, it's not that
00:31:35.700
big of a big deal, you know, it's okay, and then U.S. shuts it down, and oh my gosh, U.S.
00:31:40.820
is racist, and they don't care about Chinese people. How could you do something like this?
00:31:43.940
And then they said, no, it's a serious pandemic. The timing was very off, and the world relies
00:31:49.000
on this World Health Organization. Are World Health Organization Tedros and China in bed
00:31:56.260
Oh, they certainly appear to be that way, Patrick.
00:31:59.900
You got to look at what the WHO did in this circumstance, and it is, there's no adjective
00:32:06.840
in the English language, which describes how bad Tedros and the WHO were. So, for instance,
00:32:15.340
I talked about that January 14th tweet, where the WHO's propagated, helped China propagate
00:32:22.160
the notion that there are no human-to-human transmissions of coronavirus, where WHO, I'm sure,
00:32:29.000
knew that there were. How could they not know about it? I mean, they're a World Health Organization.
00:32:33.480
They've got doctors. Also, on January 10th, WHO came out with a statement to support China's
00:32:40.120
goal of not having countries impose travel restrictions on arrivals from China. So, you
00:32:47.560
put those two things together, and it shows that the WHO was very much supporting Beijing's
00:32:53.580
initiatives, and Beijing's initiatives had to be malicious. Also, you know, Tedros did a
00:32:59.800
number of other things. So, for instance, in January, he delayed for as long as possible WHO's
00:33:06.560
formal designation of the coronavirus as a public health emergency of international concern. Also,
00:33:13.360
he delayed for as long as possible the WHO's designation of coronavirus as a pandemic, which
00:33:20.440
eventually occurred, I think, on March 11th. We saw Tedros in Beijing at the end of January talk about how
00:33:30.680
other countries should emulate China's system and talked about the quote-unquote superiority of China's
00:33:38.200
system, which is a thinly veiled attack on democracy. And then, of course, WHO has very much been
00:33:48.200
supporting the notion that China's statistics are accurate. None of those would be, I think,
00:33:54.840
actions of an organization that really was dedicated to stopping the virus from infecting people. So, you put
00:34:03.560
that together. The one thing you can say is that if you took the Communist Party of China and the World
00:34:09.400
Health Organization together, they're responsible for taking this, which should have just been a local
00:34:16.600
outbreak in Wuhan or maybe even Hubei Province, and making it, first of all, a nationwide epidemic in
00:34:23.320
China, plus also a global pandemic. None of those last two things would have occurred had not these two
0.92
00:34:30.600
organizations, Communist Party and WHO, acted together. So, you can argue about who's more
00:34:37.400
responsible, and I think, of course, it's the Communist Party. But the point is WHO helped spread
00:34:44.520
this coronavirus around the world, and so that its actions on balance have been maligned. And that
00:34:52.760
leads us to a number of conclusions about what we do. You talked about the funding of WHO. That's right,
00:34:58.040
the U.S. by far is the largest funder. We put $440 million in the WHO last year. You add Bill Gates,
00:35:05.080
it's a lot of other money. We shouldn't be doing that.
00:35:10.200
What, why would, what's the, everything to me is about motive, right? Everything is motive. We get
00:35:16.920
married, why do you get married? There's a motive. Why do you ask a girl out? Well, there's a motive.
1.00
00:35:21.240
Why does she say yes? Motive. Why do you buy a real estate? Motive. Why do you buy a car? Motive.
00:35:26.680
Why do you wear a close motive? Why do we do anything? There's a motive behind it. It doesn't
00:35:32.040
mean all the motive is negative. It just means there's motive behind it. Some negative, some
00:35:35.400
positive. Okay. What is the motive between World Health Organization protecting China? That's what
00:35:41.560
I'm curious about. You know, I don't know Tedros, so I'm not in his head. So I can't tell you what his
00:35:49.080
motive is. But you know, you can say that China lobbied very hard for his election as director
00:35:54.440
general of WHO. He has very leftist tendencies. Maybe there's an answer in there. You know,
00:36:01.640
it's a question. I understand why you're looking at motive. But you know, motive is one thing that,
00:36:08.440
you know, is really hard to ascertain with certainty. Because as I said, I don't know, in fact,
00:36:15.320
what Xi Jinping was thinking. I don't know, in fact, what Tedros is thinking. But I don't really
00:36:20.040
need to know. All I can see is what they did. And that's really where we can see the crimes that
00:36:29.320
they've committed. So I don't know motive. But as I said, I don't care.
00:36:36.520
Yeah, only reason I ask is because if somebody is working closely with Tedros,
00:36:40.760
and let's just say they're in a meeting, and there are 40, 50 of them, and they're on the inside,
00:36:45.880
and they know the decisions that were made, there's no way in the world Tedros is the only one
00:36:51.240
that's making a decision. I trust there's another 20, 30, 40 people that are in the know of why the
00:36:56.120
decisions were made. Somebody in that group has to be furious because someone in their life, they
00:37:03.240
lost somebody or it affected somebody or they were affected because their elderly parents were relying
00:37:09.160
on a retirement plan. Now they have to work harder or one of their relatives lost a bit. Someone has
00:37:14.520
to be furious on the inside with Tedros to be able to come out and say, listen, I don't think you're
00:37:19.320
doing a good job. Just like this 37-year-old doctor out of Wuhan who came out and was a whistleblower to
00:37:26.840
China and said, we're not doing the right thing. He ended up passing away. He disappeared. I don't know
00:37:30.680
what you call that, but the only reason I'm asking motive is because I do believe everybody
00:37:38.200
at some level has a certain level of decency to say, I just don't think we're doing the right thing,
00:37:43.960
man. We got to do something about this, especially at this magnitude. This is not a small thing here.
00:37:50.120
This is a very big thing here. Someone has to come out and say what really happened.
00:37:53.160
Well, Bruce Alward, who has generally been described as the number two in WHO, his formal
00:38:02.280
title is Senior Advisor to the Director General. A couple of days ago, he came out with an interview
00:38:08.040
where he said, it was very important for us at an early stage of the outbreak to be able to study
00:38:13.880
this. So we needed China's cooperation, which is really what his message was. So I suppose you could
00:38:19.080
say that for some people, the WHO, they were saying, well, we've got to be nice to China,
00:38:23.880
to butter them up, so they'll allow us to go to Wuhan and study it. But as we just talked about,
00:38:30.680
WHO, they stiff-armed WHO in Wuhan. So whatever the motive was, and that's really-
00:38:38.760
What do you mean? You just said, WHO stiff-harm WHO in Wuhan?
00:38:41.800
No, China stiff-armed WHO, preventing them from an adequate opportunity
00:38:48.760
to study the virus. I suppose, you know, one could say that maybe that was what they were thinking.
00:38:55.720
But, you know, it's very, very difficult to discern motive. What we have to do is look at what they did
00:39:04.120
and what they should have known at the time that they committed certain acts. And that leads to very
00:39:10.920
dark conclusions about not only China, but about the WHO.
00:39:15.000
One of the most annoying things that my dad did to me is hold me accountable. I hated it. I couldn't
00:39:21.240
stand it. When I was in the army, I couldn't stand being held accountable to formation, and you got
00:39:26.920
to get in, and four o'clock, and you got to run, and you got to report. Accountability is very annoying.
00:39:33.560
But accountability also builds leaders, and accountability builds trust. One of the things that
00:39:39.480
seems very common here that's missing is accountability. It concerns me. When I even
00:39:43.160
brought it up to you earlier, I said, how should China be held accountable at the, you know, World
0.96
00:39:48.760
Tribunal? And you're like, well, it's not real. We have to figure out a way to get past this.
0.91
00:39:53.800
And you said, we need to maybe go back to what, you know, Nuremberg and Japan and, you know,
00:39:57.800
Germany, all that stuff. But if there is no accountability, why wouldn't I do it again?
00:40:03.800
Right. If there's no consequences, why wouldn't I? It's like, it's a slap in the hand. It's like,
00:40:08.600
hey, okay, all right, no problem. You're okay if I do this again. I'm going to do it again, and again,
00:40:12.280
and again, because you need me. So where does accountability come into play here?
00:40:16.520
Yeah, well, you know, that's absolutely right. And that's why I said we need to impose some costs,
00:40:22.040
because if we don't do that, they'll do this again. You know, and I suppose the one thing that will
00:40:27.240
happen, and this is something that is within our power to do, is that countries are going to start
00:40:33.400
isolating China. You know, for decades, for five decades, countries have tried to integrate China
00:40:40.200
into the international system. They thought it was a positive good. And because of that,
00:40:45.000
they overlooked a lot of irresponsible and dangerous conduct on the part of Beijing,
00:40:49.640
because they wanted to encourage to entice China, so that it would enmesh itself in the, you know,
00:40:56.280
rules, norms, conventions, treaties, but you know, it hasn't worked. And what we're seeing is, I think,
00:41:02.600
people starting to understand that China is not reformable. And if China is not reformable,
00:41:08.280
that leads to the conclusion that we need to get China out of the UN, out of the World Trade
0.95
00:41:14.200
Organization, out of the World Health Organization, and just start to isolate it. And I know people
00:41:21.000
don't want to do that. But you got to remember, you know, we always think, you know, China should be
00:41:26.280
moving on the right path. If you look at what China did in the SARS epidemic of 2002-2003, it was really
0.99
00:41:33.960
awful. But as awful as it was, its behavior in the coronavirus epidemic of 2019 to, you know, 2020,
00:41:43.800
is, it's been much, much worse than it was. And so we've got to understand that our idea of engaging
00:41:50.680
China just has not worked. And we got to try something else. And I'm not saying I can't hold
0.97
00:41:56.760
my hand over my heart and saying that isolating China will be any better. I think it will. And
1.00
00:42:02.280
that's a long conversation in and of itself. But we have to say that what we have been doing has not
00:42:08.920
worked. It's encouraged China to be more belligerent, more provocative, more hostile,
0.55
00:42:13.480
more dangerous. So we've got to do something else.
00:42:15.720
I agree. And it has to be some strong measures. It can't be light, you know, it has to be some real
00:42:22.280
measures for them to know you can't keep doing this. Okay, so the next one here for you, this,
00:42:26.680
this one's going to be probably a five second answer for you. And we'll move on with this one.
00:42:30.120
But some people wanted me to ask, I'm asking this for you. And is this, does this have anything to do
00:42:35.160
with so many powerful people that were linked to Epstein and Clinton? And what happened there to the
00:42:41.480
point where it's a full on distraction? And it has something to do with China? Or you give it zero
00:42:46.120
credibility? Zero. Okay, let's move on. I told you it's going to be five seconds. Next. How much of
00:42:51.480
this has to do with China realizing because I think they've even said it, one of their military leaders
00:42:58.120
has said that we cannot go against US when it comes down to power of military, they'll crush us, we don't
00:43:04.200
have that kind of a military that US has, there's no way in the world we can compete with them. So they took a
00:43:09.960
bigger part of their resources to want to invest not in traditional warfare, but more in biochemical,
00:43:17.480
drug trafficking, poisoning, environmental destruction, and computer virus dissemination.
00:43:27.720
Look, we all we have to do is listen to what Chinese leaders have said themselves. Chinese military
00:43:37.720
officers have talked about this, you know, and we have seen what what China has done. So I think that
00:43:45.320
essentially, we've got to be really concerned about what you know, they call three warfares or
00:43:51.080
unrestricted warfare, which is the title of that book from two colonels who are now two generals. So
00:43:57.560
yeah, they have been trying to undermine our society. And we don't, we don't really have to,
00:44:05.720
you know, we can see what they've been doing. But we don't really have to speculate too much because
00:44:11.320
last May, May 2019, People's Daily, which is the most authoritative publication in China,
00:44:18.360
it's the self described mouthpiece of the Communist Party, People's Daily carried a piece
00:44:23.880
that declared a quote unquote, people's war on the United States. And Xinhua News Agency also carried
00:44:32.200
that piece. Xinhua is official Chinese government media outlet. So you know, they declared a people's
00:44:37.640
war. I mean, how clear do we want them to be? You know, we say that they're not transparent. But as
00:44:43.960
you know, people have said, they telegraphed their punches. And that's exactly what they did in this time.
00:44:48.760
You know, we live in a democracy, we may not like our congressmen, our senator, our governor or our
00:44:55.960
president. But we know that they're legitimate, because they were elected in China. And so we don't
00:45:02.200
have propaganda. But in China, when you have an insecure, small ruling group, propaganda is the most
00:45:09.720
important thing. And so they can come up and say these ludicrous things. And we Americans are really
00:45:15.480
good at ignoring it by saying, Oh, they can't really believe that. But yeah, they really believe
00:45:19.720
it. And they, they propagate these narratives, because they believe it's absolutely critical to
00:45:24.920
the survival of the regime. You know, we Americans ignored everything that Osama bin Laden said and
00:45:33.240
did in the 1990s. We should not be ignoring what those who are hostile to us are saying. And so we should
00:45:41.240
be paying attention to what the Chinese have been saying. And it is really belligerent.
0.95
00:45:47.880
Wow. Okay, so I'll follow up with a question on that. I'll go to the next one here.
00:45:52.440
Why? Why? Why does it feel like whether it's the media, whether it's many of these politicians,
00:46:01.160
or even some of the folks who are billionaires from New York or elsewhere? Why does it seem like there is a
00:46:07.560
underlying level of discomfort with putting too much blame on China and holding them accountable
00:46:16.280
and almost protecting them saying that's not nice. You don't talk to them like that. These are good
00:46:19.880
people. Why would you do that? Why is there such a movement going on? And it's very subtle. You almost
00:46:24.920
can't catch it if you don't pay attention to that way. Why is that going on? Why do you think?
00:46:29.160
Well, here again, we're dealing with other people's intentions.
00:46:32.120
But my guess is a couple things. First of all, we live in a highly partisan atmosphere right now.
00:46:38.680
And so people are just using whatever they can to club President Trump. So that's, I think,
00:46:45.720
part of it. Also, because there are elements in American society that have gotten really rich off
00:46:51.800
of China. And so they don't want that to change. So you've got people on Wall Street, you've got
0.82
00:46:58.600
people in boardrooms, chambers of commerce. They see much more in common with their fellows in China
00:47:08.440
than they do with other Americans. So there's an elitism, which, you know, it's typified, of course,
00:47:15.160
at Davos. So I think that that's part of it as well. But you know, it's really dangerous, Patrick,
00:47:24.200
because what we've got right now is we have a common enemy. That enemy means us harm. And that
00:47:30.760
enemy is attacking us. Whether we like him or not, we've only got one president until January 20, 2021.
00:47:39.720
And that means that we're going to have to rally behind President Trump, we're going to have to
00:47:44.520
unify, because we've got to protect ourselves, because our republic is at risk. We tend to think
00:47:52.840
of America as powerful. But you look around America today, we've got Americans dying, we've got an
00:47:59.000
economy at a standstill in many locations, we've got a society that is paralyzed, and we have a common
00:48:05.720
enemy China. So we Americans have got to wise up and realize there's some pretty dangerous folks out
0.63
00:48:12.120
there. And if we don't get together, we're going to lose the American experiment.
00:48:18.040
I agree. Question for you on the next conspiracy. How much of this is the media sensationalizing,
00:48:28.760
over sensationalizing the credibility of a coronavirus to hurt the economy and lengthen
00:48:35.640
this process, the longer it hurts the economy to eventually lead to President Trump not getting
00:48:40.840
reelected? Is there any credibility to that? I don't do domestic politics. But you know,
00:48:47.240
the media is the media. They will sensationalize things. And all parts of the media will, of course,
00:48:55.880
tend to do that. I think you know, most members in the media are responsible. But you know,
00:48:59.800
there is that sort of tendency to say this is brand new or whatever. But this is where we're dealing
00:49:08.360
with something which creates fear. And that is always going to magnify whatever, you know,
00:49:16.200
irresponsible tendencies there are in human beings. So we have fear for a real reason. That is that this is a
00:49:24.520
dangerous pathogen. And until we understand it, I don't get too concerned about overreaction to it. I'm
00:49:33.960
much more concerned about the underreaction. Now we may be able to undo some of the measures that we have
00:49:42.520
taken to beat the virus. I mean, and people who are much smarter than I am will be able to talk about
00:49:49.240
that. But nonetheless, until we can see a way out of this, we've got to be very concerned because this
00:49:56.440
bug is highly transmissible. And it's also lethal. And it's not just what happened in our society. Take a
00:50:03.320
look at Italy. Take a look at Spain. Take a look at China. Take a look at South Korea. All of these societies
00:50:09.800
have gone through crises. And we've got to be concerned what might happen next.
00:50:17.000
Are we, next one here, are we potentially at the beginning of a World War III being created? And if
00:50:25.640
not, will the next World War III be looking similar to what we're currently going through? Meaning it
0.57
00:50:32.280
being a biowarfare type of a thing that we'll be dealing with? That's very possible. As we started
00:50:40.760
out with your first conspiracy theory, I don't think this was a bioweapon. But, you know, and a lot of
00:50:48.840
people, you go back six weeks ago, you go back maybe last week, and people would say, oh, look, you know,
00:50:54.680
bioweapons, they aren't really practical, you know, why have one? Well, what we have seen is this
00:51:03.960
coronavirus, probably not a bioweapon. But what it's done is it is paralyzed societies. And I'm sure
00:51:12.840
that China and other countries have seen what a biological agent can do. So this wasn't even a
00:51:21.480
weapon in all probability, but look what it did to the United States. We have, you know, we have
00:51:28.280
a Nimitz class carrier, the Theodore Roosevelt, now sitting in Guam, taken out of action because some
00:51:35.000
sailors on it have coronavirus. I think the Chinese have recognized that because they talk about it in
00:51:40.360
their propaganda. You know, we have a biological weapons convention, the United States is a party to
0.85
00:51:46.280
it, China's party to it. But unfortunately, there are no inspection regimes in that convention. And
00:51:54.360
we have got to make sure that it does because right now we have seen the power of a biological weapon,
00:52:01.160
not a biologic, I'm not saying coronavirus is a biological weapon. But this is what could be
00:52:07.400
what the world's future bioweapons look like. Just a simple virus.
00:52:14.040
If an evil empire is watching this, there's a few of them, one of them is north of South Korea,
00:52:19.880
if some evil empires are watching this, this is leaving a lot of strategies for other countries to
00:52:27.640
want to use this as a potential method in the future. Forget about just being China. This is
00:52:31.720
like, it's almost as if, you know, the TV show when it first came out, was it not Cops? Was it
00:52:38.920
not America's Most Wanted? What was the one that would show how people were committing the crimes?
00:52:43.400
In a way, they were teaching people how to become criminals. Non-criminals were saying,
00:52:47.480
well, that's a pretty good way of going and robbing a bank. Very creative.
00:52:51.640
CSI, yeah. So this is one of those things that's teaching a lot of people what is potential
00:52:58.280
to go out there and do. Here's another conspiracy theory. Tell me if this is a conspiracy or it's
00:53:04.600
100% factual. Does China have a million to three million people at concentration camps over there?
00:53:11.000
That is not a conspiracy theory. They are detention facilities in what China calls Xinjiang,
00:53:18.360
which is the northwestern part of China. The local inhabitants say it's not China,
00:53:24.520
that it is a separate republic called East Turkestan. But there are detention facilities
00:53:29.960
there. We don't know the exact number of people in those facilities, but the lower estimates are
00:53:35.800
one million and the upper estimates are what you mentioned, three million. And these are,
00:53:41.640
they fit the definition of concentration camps. And we know that this is part of China's policy to
0.69
00:53:49.640
eliminate Uyghur culture and eliminate Islam from China. So this is horrific.
0.97
00:53:56.440
Is anybody doing anything to that or can they be held accountable to that to be audited or not really?
00:54:00.440
They can do whatever they're doing right now. Well, this is a crime against humanity.
00:54:05.560
This is what as bad as the Third Reich did before it started the mass exterminations. And what China has
0.95
00:54:12.280
done, and people we know are dying in those camps because Beijing has been building crematorium.
00:54:16.920
There's been killing associated with this. It just hasn't been the march you into a gas chamber type
00:54:23.720
of killing. But it's extermination of a culture slowly. And we know that people are being killed.
00:54:31.880
So this is a crime against humanity. And there's not too much that the international community can do.
00:54:38.200
And certainly not very much the international community has done. But Secretary of State Pompeo,
00:54:43.800
to his great credit, has talked about this. And at some point, you know, this is one of those things where
00:54:51.080
by itself, it's not going to get the international community to move. But when in conjunction with,
00:54:58.120
you know, the initiatives against the Tibetans, which are similar, you know, the attacks on Christian churches,
00:55:05.080
you know, all these things that are occurring together, including releasing this virus on the
00:55:12.040
world, these are the types of things when taken in the aggregate are going to get the international
00:55:17.080
community to do something to start containing China, to start not enriching it with trade and with the rest
0.93
00:55:23.880
of it. So I think that we will gradually, I hope sooner, but I think that we will gradually see
00:55:30.680
a new attitude on China, which is going to be, we're going to get to the place where we were with the
00:55:36.760
Soviet Union. And it took a long time, you know, George Kennan had to write his long telegram of 1946,
00:55:43.720
and his ex article in foreign affairs in 1947, took a little bit of time for the United States to get to the
00:55:49.720
point where we saw the Soviet Union as an adversary. I think we're getting there to China about on China
00:55:56.120
really fast. It's actually not a bad thing. The fact that that's happened with the majority,
00:56:01.160
I think that's a good, a healthy level of paranoia is a very good thing for a nation. Like you said,
00:56:06.840
I'm not much concerned about overreaction. I'm more concerned about underreaction,
00:56:10.440
which is a powerful statement you made earlier today. So okay, so look, I got a different question
00:56:14.680
for you now. We're done with the conspiracies. We can go just to some questions for you.
00:56:18.520
You're from China. You lived there two decades. Your father's Chinese. Why do you not like the
1.00
00:56:25.080
country your father's from? What do you have against China? I mean, you are, you are half Chinese.
0.98
00:56:30.360
What do you have against the country that, you know, your family's from?
00:56:34.920
Yeah, I have nothing against China. I love China. I have a lot against the men and women who rule it
00:56:42.520
as the Communist Party. So this is something where it's very different. You know, we talk about China
00:56:48.360
and that's a sort of shorthand. But the Communist Party isn't China. And the Chinese people are, first
0.99
00:56:55.480
of all, the most direct victims of the Communist Party. And because they are, it means that they're
00:57:01.160
one of our most important allies, because, you know, the Communist Party is reaching out and causing
00:57:06.600
harm, not just to the Chinese people, but to us as well. And you know, if you go back before the
0.90
00:57:12.120
Coronavirus epidemic, we Americans sort of looked at what was going on in the camps that you mentioned,
00:57:19.000
with the Uyghurs. We looked at the Tibetans, the Christians, people in Hong Kong, people in Taiwan,
1.00
00:57:25.800
and we said, Oh, that's over there. But right now, we have seen through the deliberate actions of the
00:57:33.240
Communist Party, that they have reached out and hurt Americans, killed Americans. And so this is no longer
00:57:43.480
just them over there. This is them in our society. You know, just to kind of give us a perspective,
00:57:50.280
when you lived there for two decades, what was the timeline? What years were you there?
00:57:54.200
Okay, I lived in Hong Kong from 1981 to 1991. Between 91 and 96, lived in California, but most of my
00:58:04.600
law practice was in China. So we crossed the Pacific an awful lot. And then from 96 to 2001, lived in
00:58:13.000
Shanghai. And then after that, I gave up practice of law. This was, my practice was focused on Hong
00:58:21.480
Kong, China, and the region. But you actually said some, you said, the fall of China is coming,
00:58:31.480
and you predicted it back in 01. I mean, that was, I do believe you said something about China in 2001,
00:58:37.160
right? It was your first prediction you made. Right. And I wrote a book called The Coming Collapse
00:58:41.400
of China was published July 2001. And in it, I said that the Communist Party would fall by in a decade.
00:58:49.000
So I was wrong on timing. I didn't happen to, I didn't happen to foresee the 2008 downturn,
00:58:56.280
which I think, certainly, materially strengthened the Communist Party for a number of reasons. But I
00:59:03.320
think that it is still coming. And you know, it's not about me. It's about what we can see on the ground in
00:59:10.440
China, that there is a fragility to the regime. And, you know, I can't, I can't say when it's going to
00:59:17.480
occur. But we got to be concerned about a weak China, which I think is much more of a concern than a
00:59:26.600
For somebody who's never been to China, who's never lived in China, there's a difference if you've
00:59:30.280
gone there for a business trip for a week or two weeks versus living there from 81 to 91, and then from
00:59:35.080
96 to 01. You've lived there, you have a day to day life, you're working there. Can you give us a
00:59:41.640
glimpse of what the day to day life of living in China looks like, like the biggest difference between
00:59:48.840
US and China, you come home, you watch sports, you watch TV, how many TV channels do you have?
00:59:53.960
How much are you being brainwashed? How are you being brainwashed? What do you have access to from
00:59:57.960
China? What kind of channels? If I'm at a hotel in China, do I have access to ESPN? Can I watch?
01:00:03.480
What does it look like? What is it like living there compared to US?
01:00:08.520
Well, when we lived there, there really was, I mean, of course, it was different. The US was
01:00:14.200
more prosperous, more developed. But China was going through sort of like a renaissance.
01:00:20.840
When we lived there, there was a lot of optimism. I can remember when we first moved there, it was
01:00:26.280
August 1996. And my wife was said, she's on the phone. She said, Mom, China's not communist anymore.
01:00:35.240
And I happened to agree with her. And one could make the case then that a lot of people did
01:00:41.160
that China was moving in the right direction. And yeah, China was just different. I mean,
01:00:46.280
they had better food, but you know, pretty much it was, it was, you could see the optimism in society,
01:00:56.440
as you could see in America. These days, I think it's different. I mean, China has become much more
0.99
01:01:01.320
prosperous, so it is more developed, but it's a debtor place. Because Xi Jinping believes in
01:01:10.440
absolute control over society. So we are seeing things like the social credit system, which is
01:01:17.400
going to be nationwide pretty soon. We can see extraordinary attempts to control people.
01:01:22.680
So it's a, it's a very different place. And there's, I think, the optimism that was there
01:01:29.080
two decades ago, is not there now. And part of it that it is going to be very different is that the
01:01:35.720
Chinese economy was not doing well before the coronavirus, but was brought to a standstill,
01:01:41.960
and indeed, is deep in contraction. So that is a new factor there. And so it makes China,
01:01:49.080
I think, very different from the US. This is a very technical question,
01:01:53.240
but probably the most important question I asked you in the interview, has your experience with China
01:01:59.000
totally gotten you to a point where you no longer eat Chinese food?
01:02:02.520
No, you eat Chinese food all the time. You know, Chinese food is great.
01:02:11.320
As I said, China has better food than the US does.
01:02:13.720
Yeah, I love Chinese food. Okay, so social media question for you. I'm just curious with this one
01:02:20.920
here. If Facebook, if YouTube, if Twitter, if all of these apps that we use in the US
01:02:30.600
were available in China the last 10 years, if all of these social media apps were available to the
01:02:38.360
public in China the last 10 years, do you think the pandemic and coronavirus would have gone to the
01:02:43.960
point that it is today? Well, if they were uncensored, like they are in the US.
01:02:49.880
Uncensored, fully uncensored. Yeah, I think that the Communist Party would have acted very differently,
01:02:55.240
because they would not have been able to hide things like they did. I mean, one of the things
01:03:01.400
that Xi Jinping has done in the coronavirus epidemic is to oppose extraordinary information controls.
01:03:08.440
Now they did that, of course, when the virus broke out. But they also they had a brief period of like
01:03:14.360
three or four days of relative openness from January 20 to January 26. And then they went back to
01:03:22.280
controlling the narrative again. And we know that because the Communist Party appointed its leading
01:03:27.800
group on the coronavirus. Under Xi Jinping, basically what's happened is he sort of bypassed
01:03:33.720
the bureaucracy. And the Communist Party has set up these groups on the economy or whatever.
01:03:38.920
Well, they set up one on the coronavirus and they announced the roster on January 26. And it was a
01:03:44.920
nine person group. Of the group, there was only one person was a public health official. And even she,
01:03:53.320
I think her degree was not in public health, though I'm not positive about that. But we do know
01:03:59.880
that it was heavy with propaganda officials. The vice chairman was Communist Party's chief of propaganda.
01:04:09.080
The chairman of the leading group was the premier of the country, who's basically a political hack.
01:04:14.040
And there were a lot of propaganda types on it, which showed that Xi Jinping's priority was not ending
01:04:18.680
the epidemic, but was controlling the narrative. And since that time, there has been evidence of this
01:04:25.960
extraordinary secrecy campaign. So they've just gone back to the old way of doing things. So yeah,
01:04:31.720
things would have been a lot different if there were Twitter and Facebook and there was just an open
01:04:37.080
and free social media. But unfortunately, that's not the case. I think if U.S. was to negotiate now
01:04:46.040
with them, and if China wants to do any kind of trade deals, do you think it'd be a good idea for
01:04:51.080
President Trump to say you got to have free press and you have to allow every single one of our
01:04:55.800
platforms in your country with no censorship or else we're doing business together?
01:04:59.560
Yeah, I mean, that would be a good thing to do. But Xi Jinping would never agree to that because
01:05:04.360
he does believe, he believes that he should have absolute control over the party, that the party
01:05:09.800
should have absolute control over society. So he's never going to agree to that. You know, we've got a
01:05:15.240
phase one trade deal signed January 15. I mean, who knows whether China is going to adhere to its
01:05:21.400
obligations. But phase two is just not going to happen, largely because they kick the hard issues
01:05:30.120
down the road, and Xi Jinping is just not going to give up on them. And the issues that they kick
01:05:35.880
down the road, like state subsidies, are a lot easier for him to deal with than what you just talked
01:05:41.160
about, which is open and free media. That is just completely antithetical to Xi Jinping's conception
01:05:47.560
of the Communist Party. I'm from Iran. I'm born in 1978. I was born in Tehran at the peak of the
01:05:54.600
revolution when it was taking place with Sinama Rex fire, where three months after I was born,
01:05:59.480
the Shah was in exile. And it was the largest coup you ever saw. Nine million people revolted against
01:06:05.480
the Shah. And a lot of the things that you're seeing, you're talking about nothing was happening
01:06:12.120
to this extreme in Iran at all. The economy was doing better. Women were free. They could go out
1.00
01:06:18.760
there and vote. They had freedom. They could do pretty much every career. They didn't have to get
01:06:24.200
married, you know, 13 years old. He had raised it to 18 years old. And then Khomeini comes in,
0.94
01:06:30.360
and through a revolution of spreading tapes, the people revolted against the regime until it
01:06:37.720
eventually flipped. Wasn't the best thing for them. That's why I got this guy's picture in the
01:06:41.480
back. Obviously, there's a reason why the Shah's in my painting in the back. What are the chances of
0.99
01:06:46.440
the people of China getting so sick of it? Would they create their own coup and go against the regime?
01:06:52.520
And if they do, how likely is it that they'll be successful?
01:06:56.840
Well, you know, they tried that in 1989, in a sense. They didn't actually, in 1989,
01:07:06.360
the genesis of this was basically unhappiness about the economy, which then was booming,
01:07:13.320
but there was a lot of inflation. But what happened is through Communist Party hardheadedness,
01:07:19.400
people then started talking about the big issues, about democracy, about freedoms. And that's when,
01:07:25.960
you know, we saw not only in Beijing, but in 370 other cities in China, people took to the streets.
01:07:33.320
Right now, we are seeing some really interesting trends and developments. So for instance, you were
01:07:39.560
talking about the death of Dr. Li Wenlong, who was one of the Wuhan eight. When he died, there was
01:07:45.160
white hot sentiment throughout social media in China. People were, you know, they started that hashtag,
01:07:51.800
I want freedom of speech. And also, they started to adopt as their anthem, that politically impactful
01:07:59.400
song from Les Miserables. Do you hear the people sing? And that was a clear message to Xi Jinping,
01:08:06.360
especially because the kids in Hong Kong had adopted that as a protest against China. So it was
01:08:13.480
unmistakable what people in China were saying. Now, there have been a lot of times where people in
01:08:19.800
China had gotten really upset, the Communist Party, and that anger for one way or another melted away.
01:08:25.720
But what's different now, Patrick, is that you've got an economy which is basically collapsed.
01:08:34.840
Isn't it perfect timing though, what you're saying right now? When do you collapse,
01:08:40.360
It's a time where I think people are not going to buy the argument that the Communist Party is the
01:08:47.560
one to ensure prosperity, because there's no prosperity. You have, you know, you can see
01:08:51.960
what's happening in our country. The same thing has happened in China only earlier. But you know,
01:08:57.400
you've had an economy, which is probably for the first quarter of this year, down 25%, maybe 30%
01:09:04.280
year on year, which is an enormous number. They won't report that, of course. But you people,
01:09:12.920
livelihoods are at stake, you know, so many small businesses in China have closed, like they've
01:09:17.720
closed in our country. So this is sort of like the tinder for an explosion. Whether it happens or not,
01:09:26.280
I can't say, I can't say at this time. But people in China have been talking about, quote unquote,
01:09:32.360
China's Chernobyl. And that, of course, is the reference to the nuclear plant accident in 1986 in
01:09:39.560
the Ukraine, which is generally thought to be the event that sort of triggered a long, slow burn to
01:09:49.080
So here's a question for you. How much of exposure or presence do we have with the CIA
01:09:58.120
in China right now? Do we have a big presence there or not really?
01:10:02.360
I don't know. But I think the answer to your question is not really. About 18 months ago or so,
01:10:09.640
China executed somewhere between 20 and 30 CIA agents. I mean, first of all, you had a number of
01:10:17.000
presidents before Trump who just put China very low in the priority. So the CIA just didn't have
01:10:23.160
that much in the way of resources in China to begin with. And then China goes in and just kills,
0.87
01:10:28.680
literally kills dozens of them. And so I don't think they've had a chance to rebuild.
01:10:33.400
Is that verified, by the way? Is that verified of killing dozens?
01:10:36.840
It's been widely reported in Wall Street Journal and the rest of it.
01:10:47.240
Don't ask me. I mean, if I were president, there would have certainly been costs imposed on China
0.96
01:10:58.920
for doing that. But China's occupied a special place in the American foreign policy establishment,
01:11:05.240
which is the reason why we're in such trouble as we are. But I don't think the CIA, to answer your
01:11:11.160
question, I don't think the CIA has had the opportunity to rebuild in China. And you've got
01:11:16.520
to remember that China's been tossing out Western journalists who aren't CIA, but that also reduces
01:11:28.360
So, you know, our visibility of China right now is not very good, which should lead us to believe
01:11:36.200
that if we can't understand what's going there, then why should we have robust relations with them?
01:11:41.640
Here's where I was going with this. If we have the right CIA agents there, by the way, we need to
01:11:46.920
really invest in a major, major, major, I would be recruiting agents left and right to send them
01:11:55.480
there. And I would do it in the most strategic way and start them early and have them go through
01:11:59.880
the educational system, et cetera, et cetera. I mean, you have to be doing that right in a way to
01:12:03.320
protect yourself long term. And I would do it in a way to get them involved in the executive side,
01:12:07.640
to have a lot of involvement there. But that's a complete different side long term wise.
01:12:10.920
Here's the question I'm asking about the CIA. Technology is more advanced today than it's
01:12:17.640
ever been before, right? If these folks, say the millennials, the Gen Xers, because that's
0.96
01:12:23.800
really the best foot soldiers you're going to have to update us on what's going on. Just like today,
01:12:28.920
if you do something nowadays, it's the millennials and the Gen Xers and the founder generation.
01:12:33.000
They're the ones that are telling us what's going on with the camera being on and, you know,
01:12:35.960
TikTok and videos, everything, right? If technology is as advanced as it is, and we have some presence
01:12:43.160
there with CIA, how hard would it be for us to bring a open VPN line and spread that amongst
01:12:51.320
everybody there to have Facebook, YouTube, Twitter? I mean, we have some of the most brilliant minds in
01:12:57.000
the world. You mean to tell me we cannot get internet there and fight it so quickly? So if they're doing
01:13:02.200
what they're doing, we're going to put millions of cameras to work by having this younger generation
0.99
01:13:07.320
who will revolt. You know, the older folks will not revolt because they have more to lose. The
0.88
01:13:10.760
younger generation, they've always been the ones that have been able to create the revolution,
01:13:14.680
whether it was in Iran, whether it was any kind of a movement you look at, it's always the younger
1.00
01:13:18.680
generation that's willing. Even if you look at Ron Paul or Bernie Sanders, their biggest momentum
01:13:23.960
creators were who? Younger generation. If we can get technology there with the right VPN,
01:13:30.920
whatever measures it takes to start kind of seeing what's going on, I think that's going to piss them
01:13:35.720
off. The government's going to piss them off. Then it's going to get the people who are skeptical,
01:13:40.280
whether the government's doing the right thing or not of China, then maybe that leads to the people
01:13:44.120
saying, we're just sick and tired of it. We got to make a change here. And that's the only way I feel
01:13:48.840
safer long term of doing business with China. That's the only way I would feel safer.
1.00
01:13:55.160
Yes. And there are NGOs that have talked about developing the means, the technical means of
01:14:03.240
jumping over what's called the Great Firewall. And so there is some effort there. Could use a lot more
01:14:09.080
push from the federal government. You know, there's something else that can be done, and that is
01:14:13.320
shortwave radio, which is what we used against the Soviet Union.
0.52
01:14:16.440
China can, because it's got the Great Firewall, can block the internet, but they can't block shortwave
0.99
01:14:24.120
radio as a practical matter. So there's a number of things that we need to do to be able to get
01:14:29.800
through to the Chinese people. Because ultimately, the Chinese people are our greatest ally, because
01:14:35.400
we've got a common interest. We've got one group that is oppressing them and causing death in our
01:14:43.480
country. And that's the Communist Party of China. So we should be looking to our friends, the Chinese
01:14:48.920
Look, when we lived in Iran, we had two channels, right? And the rich people had a satellite,
01:14:55.400
and you would always, oh my gosh, you have satellite, and look at this, you can go watch movies, and
01:14:59.480
there's kissing, and there's this. It was like, oh, rich people can watch crazy movies, you know, poor
01:15:03.640
people cannot, you know. And you go to your friend's house who had satellites, and they lived in this
01:15:09.800
city called Gandhi. There was a city in Iran called Gandhi, which is pretty interesting.
01:15:13.560
That was a rich people's city. And we had a friend that lived there, we'd go in there and say, look
01:15:17.320
at us, we have a satellite, shh, don't tell anybody, because we could get in trouble. I think, I think
01:15:22.280
that's, you know, I think that's what China needs. Whatever we did with China, whatever we did with
0.87
01:15:26.680
Russia, I think the people need that, because we need to get more documentation on what's going on.
01:15:31.080
We're getting a glimpse of it right now, but not at the measures that we need
01:15:33.960
to get that back to what it needs to be. So final exercise here with us, but before I go into this
01:15:41.160
final exercise, is there, what do you see with the foreseeable future? How long is this thing going to
01:15:47.000
last? When do you see us going back to work? And is there any positive outlook you have of how things
01:15:53.960
are going to turn out the next three, six, nine, 12 months? Well, I sort of think the virus does burn
01:16:00.600
out during the summer. You know, as we're talking about, it might not, I mean, this is a bug that
01:16:06.600
likes hot weather. So who knows what it's going to do? You know, I think that we can see a couple
01:16:11.640
things that are occurring in China, because they're obviously ahead of us. So for instance, in Wuhan,
01:16:19.160
where this thing started, that's sort of the bug has burned itself out. And so Wuhan is just slowly
01:16:25.640
getting back to normal. And you know, they just opened up the barricade, so people in Wuhan can
01:16:31.640
actually travel to other parts of China, if they've got a green code, you know, they get green, yellow,
01:16:37.640
red, depending on their health. So if they got a green code, they can actually leave. So it's sort of
01:16:43.640
getting there. But the problem for China right now is that the bug has, I think, jumped to cities on the
01:16:51.560
east. So for instance, in Shanghai, at the end of last month, they started closing down tourist venues
01:16:59.720
that had just been opened a few days before. So there's a real indication that they have got a
01:17:06.280
problem there. And you can start to see it in their statistics, which they're issuing on daily
01:17:11.400
infections. They seem that daily infections, both all of them, asymptomatic and symptomatic,
01:17:19.960
are going up. So I think that there's a second wave that's hitting. The second and third wave
01:17:25.000
have been hitting peripheral areas to China, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea. So
01:17:31.320
it's probably going to hit China as well. It's probably well developed there. So China is sort of
01:17:37.160
where the rest of the world is going, which means for us, it, you know, New York, the bug will burn
01:17:43.160
itself out. And coronavirus will jump to other cities like it's doing. So it'll burn itself out
01:17:50.920
in those other places as well. You know, I think that maybe by the middle of June, we'll be through
01:17:55.640
this. But God help us next fall. That was your attempt at giving a motivational speech, which
01:18:03.640
maybe you need to listen to a little bit more Tony Robbins to pick up some abilities on how he does it.
01:18:08.680
I don't know. Maybe you need to kind of work on that. So by the way, just something for you to be
01:18:12.520
thinking. Don't let your wife discourage you from thinking about the comedy side, because
01:18:16.200
let the jokes come out. Don't let her convince you not to let the jokes come out. Okay.
01:18:20.760
Last part here. I'll give you some names and give me the first word that you think about. Whatever
01:18:26.280
word that you think about, give me the first word. We call this a speed round. Bill Gates.
01:18:39.080
I mean, the early Elon Musk, you know, great man going into space, Tesla. I think that's terrific.
01:18:51.000
The problem, though, is that I think fame has gone to his head. And, you know, it was typified what we
01:18:57.720
saw two, three months ago with that dance he did in China. I mean, that just shows you that I think
01:19:03.320
he's gone too far. I don't think he's going to make money in China with electric cars for a number
01:19:10.200
of reasons. I think that this could be where he really gets a real lesson. You know, it's like
01:19:16.280
So you were really frustrated with his dance moves. So if he improved his dance moves, would you
01:19:24.200
not call him an idiot? Or would you change your opinion?
01:19:29.320
Okay. Got it. Maybe we need to recommend some nice choreographers to hire. He can afford it. So
1.00
01:19:38.680
Yeah. I think that he needs to resign. If he doesn't resign, we need to defund the WHO.
01:19:45.080
What he did was despicable. So I don't have a good word to say about him. And I have,
01:19:51.560
I sometimes am not able to think of, I don't think they're, you know, he leaves me speechless.
01:20:00.040
So is it fair to say you don't have a picture on that bookshelf of yours behind you?
01:20:07.400
This is my daughter, my wife, my in-laws, a couple of me, you know,
01:20:15.320
No Tedros. Well, it is what it is. Margaret Chan.
01:20:35.800
Another criminal. Moon Jae-in wants to, he wants South Korea to be merged into North Korea,
01:20:44.920
and probably on North Korea's terms. So he wants to end democracy in South Korea.
01:20:53.160
I mean, he, Moon Jae-in is one of my favorite topics actually. So it's hard to come up with just
01:20:59.480
one word for him. But I think that he's dangerous. He's no friend to the US. He would love to be a
01:21:07.320
totalitarian. He is moving China and moving South Korea away from a liberal democracy back to an
01:21:14.200
authoritarian state. So what nice things can you say about him?
01:21:27.400
I mean, he keeps on saying, oh, you know, Huawei would never spy for the Communist Party. Well,
01:21:36.360
I got news for you. The 2017 National Intelligence Law of China requires every Chinese national,
0.98
01:21:43.080
every Chinese entity to spy if demanded. And besides in the Communist Party's top-down system,
01:21:48.440
you can't resist a demand from the Communist Party. Ren himself is a member of the party.
01:21:53.480
So, you know, I put him into the basket of dangerous individuals.
01:22:05.000
Clearly hero. And he sacrificed his life to try, you know, he went to the, you know, he went to everyone
01:22:11.720
talking about the disease. He did that at great personal risk to himself. Eventually, as a doctor,
01:22:17.880
he lost his life treating coronavirus patients. I mean, it's just sort of brings tears.
01:22:24.200
Well, sir, this has been a very, very insightful and hopefully the viewers were able to look at
01:22:30.760
some of these different conspiracies that's being tossed around and getting millions of views and
01:22:34.280
getting people's attention. And quite frankly, it's a put on a lot of fear in people. I got a call the
01:22:38.360
other day at 1130 at night. One of my friends, who's a very successful businessman, called me and
01:22:43.880
him and his wife were on the phone. I had to have an hour and a half conversation with this person
01:22:47.800
because they were buying into some of these conspiracy theories that really were messing
01:22:52.040
with their heads. And it's not just getting naive people. It's getting everybody to start kind of
01:22:57.160
questioning some of this stuff because the way it's being sold, it's very convincing.
01:23:01.640
Any final thoughts with you before we wrap up the interview?
01:23:04.120
You know, our society, let me just repeat something that I said that we're really at risk. We are going
01:23:11.800
to have to band together because, you know, as Ronald Reagan said, freedom is only one generation away
01:23:18.680
from extinction. Well, now it could be a couple of years away from extinction. So we've really got to
01:23:24.840
get together and, as Americans, defend our society and our way of life.
01:23:31.480
Thank you so much, Patrick. I really appreciate the opportunity.
01:23:35.800
Thanks everybody for listening. And by the way, if you haven't already subscribed to Valuetainment on
01:23:39.640
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01:23:45.240
questions for me that you may have, you can always find me on Snapchat, Instagram, Facebook, or YouTube.
01:23:50.520
Just search my name, Patrick David. And I actually do respond back when you snap me or send me a message
01:23:56.440
on Instagram. With that being said, have a great day today. Take care, everybody. Bye-bye.