Valuetainment - Episode 466： Collapse of China Explained By Chinese American Lawyer

00:00:00.000 I'm Patrick Bader, your host of Value Tim, and today I'm sitting down with a lawyer,

00:00:25.320 a 20-year lawyer who worked in China for two of the biggest law firms in the world,

00:00:31.100 and he has a complete different view on why he believes the collapse of China is around the corner.

00:00:36.840 Gordon, thank you so much for making the time to be a guest with us here on Value Timing.

00:00:40.380 Oh, well, thank you so much, Patrick.

00:00:42.440 So if I may get into it, this is the approach I'd like to take with this on this interview,

00:00:48.740 and the reason why I'm taking this approach is the following reason.

00:00:51.780 My Instagram account, my messages, my email, ever since we interviewed General Spalding from the Air Force,

00:00:58.340 which I think you two have worked together on a couple different projects,

00:01:01.800 and he knows of you.

00:01:02.760 You were recently in a documentary together that came out a couple days ago,

00:01:06.480 and he ended up getting 7 million views, and people contacted us all over the place.

00:01:11.180 So then we brought on board Danielle DiMartino Booth yesterday.

00:01:15.900 We talked about the effects of coronavirus to the economy, and it's just the amount of commentary

00:01:21.800 and people's interest in it, it's a whole different place.

00:01:24.480 But also at the same time, a lot of interviews on YouTube, on Vimeo, all over social media,

00:01:30.460 have gone viral, whether it's, you know, Joe Rogan did it with Michael Osterhold,

00:01:35.620 or to David Icke with Brian Rose from London Real that's gone all over the place,

00:01:40.260 and the video has been taken down from YouTube, from Vimeo, from a lot of different platforms,

00:01:44.760 or General Spalding, or Dr. Shiva, or Fauci, or a lot of names.

00:01:48.480 Obviously, people are curious.

00:01:50.560 The direction I want to go with this is the following.

00:01:53.220 I would like to bring up all of these different conspiracy theories that are coming up,

00:01:59.240 and for you to say, nope, there's no truth behind that.

00:02:03.020 Yes, there is some credibility behind that.

00:02:04.960 So you can either tell us zero credibility behind it, maybe 50%, and that is not a conspiracy.

00:02:11.840 That is an accurate statement.

00:02:13.040 So if you don't mind us going through that direction, I think the viewers would like to see it from a person

00:02:17.000 that's a lawyer, Cornell University, who's lived in China for two decades, and has been over here.

00:02:21.320 Maybe you're going to give us a different perspective.

00:02:22.940 Are you okay with that?

00:02:24.700 Terrific.

00:02:25.380 Okay, so let's get right into it.

00:02:27.340 So first of all, is coronavirus real?

00:02:31.020 Does it exist?

00:02:32.480 Well, it certainly exists.

00:02:33.780 I mean, it's sickened hundreds of thousands of people around the world, and it is not done

00:02:38.960 with us yet.

00:02:40.300 We tend to think that because it is a coronavirus that it will disappear in the summer, but we

00:02:46.200 also know that this bug likes hot weather.

00:02:49.060 So we're just going to have to wait and see because it is surprising us day by day.

00:02:54.960 Okay, so yes, it is real.

00:02:56.560 Number two, is it a natural virus that came from the, you know, wet market where it's not

00:03:04.140 man-made, it's natural, that kind of happened?

00:03:06.360 Or is it man-made, intentionally made to use as a biowarfare chemical to go against an enemy?

00:03:14.400 Well, so far, the science says that it is a natural, that it is there.

00:03:21.900 It wasn't spliced.

00:03:23.080 There have been a couple papers which have talked about it being engineered, but those

00:03:28.760 papers have not received general acceptance in the scientific community.

00:03:33.200 The one thing, though, that's really important, Patrick, is that Beijing has done its best to

00:03:39.420 hinder foreign virologists and epidemiologists from going into Wuhan, the epicenter, and studying

00:03:46.680 this.

00:03:47.480 The World Health Organization sent a team into China.

00:03:50.820 They were there for maybe about two weeks, but they were only in Wuhan for two days, February

00:03:56.500 20th and 21st.

00:03:58.260 They only were able to send part of the team, and really, they did not have the opportunity

00:04:04.120 to study the virus itself.

00:04:07.360 I think these were more or less sort of like get-to-know-you meetings.

00:04:11.120 So Beijing has really worked very hard to prevent us from learning what's going on.

00:04:16.980 And because of that, of course, we got to say most everything is on the table, but we have

00:04:22.860 been able to study this bug because it's gotten out beyond China's borders.

00:04:26.900 And so far, it looks like it is a natural coronavirus.

00:04:32.300 It looks like it is a natural coronavirus or it's man-made?

00:04:37.720 No, it is not man-made from most of the science that we have seen so far.

00:04:43.300 Not every scientist will agree with that conclusion, but until somebody comes up with a striking

00:04:49.260 discovery, the consensus is that this is not man-made.

00:04:54.600 Okay, fair.

00:04:55.580 So, by the way, that's interesting for you to say that because there's a lot of people

00:04:59.220 that are saying it is man-made and it is intentional.

00:05:02.460 That leads me to the next question.

00:05:04.120 How much of what is going on right now is due to a president like Donald Trump, whose entire

00:05:10.960 career has been based on the art of the deal to be able to negotiate and strong-arm his opponent

00:05:16.420 based on the kind of leverage he has.

00:05:18.120 So, he decided to go against the biggest opponent of U.S., which happens to be China.

00:05:22.540 And he used every single leverage, knowing how much business China does with U.S., knowing

00:05:27.240 how much import we do from their relying on U.S. economy.

00:05:31.240 So, the more and more tariffs he put, China said, if this is the kind of a game you want

00:05:34.820 to play, you know, China's always been a kind of a person that they don't fight like you

00:05:38.620 head on.

00:05:39.260 They typically fight by using whether it's proxies or, you know, oh, we didn't do it.

00:05:43.760 Our hands weren't touching that.

00:05:44.880 That's not on us.

00:05:46.480 How much of it has to do with them using coronavirus as a method to retaliate to Donald Trump's approach

00:05:53.160 of negotiation?

00:05:54.100 Yeah, I don't think that this is about Donald Trump at all.

00:05:59.300 There's a lot that we can say about the origin of the virus, and maybe we should circle back,

00:06:04.480 because a lot of people say, well, because this probably wasn't engineered, it was just

00:06:10.320 sort of like naturally occurring, you know, it jumped to humans at that wet market in Wuhan.

00:06:16.340 Well, maybe so, but there's a lot of science that says that it wasn't Patrick.

00:06:20.380 It didn't come from there, because there are a number of initial patients who had no

00:06:24.400 contact with that wet market.

00:06:26.700 And although if you go back two weeks, people were saying, you know, the idea this came from

00:06:32.080 a lab was conspiratorial, this could very well have been the release of a natural virus from

00:06:40.520 one of those two labs that people have been talking about.

00:06:43.740 One of those two labs near Wuhan is the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

00:06:48.880 It's a P4 biosafety lab.

00:06:51.440 That's the highest level of safety.

00:06:53.340 China has told us that they stored 1,500 varieties of coronavirus in that lab.

00:07:00.680 And so a lot of people are saying, well, this is an accidental release.

00:07:05.060 This gets to a number of different points that eventually I will answer your question.

00:07:10.580 But look at what happened.

00:07:12.000 This has been, you know, a bug which has ravaged China.

00:07:16.700 And China's leaders have known that.

00:07:19.140 What they have done, though, is really striking.

00:07:22.920 So, for instance, they knew about this in Beijing sometime, maybe first week of December,

00:07:29.100 probably in November.

00:07:30.320 In November, the second week of December, maybe the third week, leaders in Beijing knew that

00:07:37.800 this could be transmitted from one human to the next.

00:07:42.080 Because doctors in Wuhan knew that by at least the second week of December.

00:07:47.680 But China's leaders didn't actually admit this to the world until January 20th.

00:07:54.560 And that is, there's a time gap there.

00:07:58.440 Now, just sort of sitting on that information would have been highly irresponsible.

00:08:03.800 But it's much worse than that.

00:08:05.840 What they did was, in that interim, where they knew that this was contagious, one person to

00:08:11.520 the next, they actually tried to convince the world that it was not human to human transmissible.

00:08:18.660 And we saw this, for instance, in that January 14th tweet from the World Health Organization,

00:08:23.400 which said, you know, based on the information from China, we see no clear proof that this

00:08:28.580 is transmitted from one human to the next.

00:08:31.100 The reason why that's important is because Beijing actually tried to lull the world into

00:08:36.720 a false sense of security.

00:08:39.500 And at the same time, Patrick, Beijing was really working very hard to prevent countries

00:08:46.620 from imposing travel restrictions on China.

00:08:49.760 The way this bug got out of China was people, people who travel.

00:08:54.160 Beijing did two things during a critical period.

00:08:57.120 It tried to deceive the world about how this was transmitted.

00:09:00.940 And it made sure that countries did not prevent people arriving from China.

00:09:07.060 Now, I don't know what was in the mind of Xi Jinping, the Chinese ruler, but he saw clearly

00:09:13.280 what the coronavirus did to his own country.

00:09:15.960 It crippled China.

00:09:17.840 So if he actually wanted to cripple other countries, he, in fact, would have done exactly what he

00:09:25.320 did.

00:09:26.540 So we have to be concerned that this has nothing to do with Trump.

00:09:30.660 I think that it's because Xi Jinping realized how bad things were in China.

00:09:35.280 He wanted to level the playing field, the geopolitical playing field.

00:09:39.080 So he allowed this virus, he actually deliberately took steps to push this virus outside of China

00:09:46.000 to infect and hobble other societies.

00:09:49.800 That has nothing to do with Donald Trump.

00:09:52.600 This was Xi Jinping taking a bad situation and trying to turn it to China's advantage.

00:09:58.960 Those are pretty powerful words, what you just said right there, Gordon.

00:10:01.500 You just said intentional.

00:10:03.480 So this was not accidental.

00:10:05.540 This was intentional done by them.

00:10:07.580 This was an intentional spread of the virus beyond China.

00:10:11.460 How certain are you of that?

00:10:13.240 I don't mean to interrupt, but when you say that, what level of certainty do you have in

00:10:17.500 that statement?

00:10:18.900 It's just an issue of analysis that when you look at what they, in fact, did, there is

00:10:24.900 no other explanation for it other than that they intentionally wanted this to spread beyond

00:10:32.460 China, because this is, this is not just a question of keeping it secret because they were embarrassed.

00:10:38.120 That would have been bad enough.

00:10:39.300 That would have been highly irresponsible.

00:10:41.880 But when they then tried to tell other countries, oh, don't worry about this.

00:10:48.040 This can't be transmitted human to human, what it did was it actually took other public health

00:10:54.820 officials in other countries that did not take those precautions that they otherwise would

00:11:00.340 have adopted.

00:11:01.020 They did.

00:11:02.020 And we also know something similar happened with their infection and death statistics.

00:11:07.920 We heard the White House Coronavirus Task Force Coordinator, Dr. Deborah Birx, talk about

00:11:14.900 how they looked at the statistics from China in terms of new cases and deaths.

00:11:20.900 And they said, oh, this is like SARS, which was the 2002-2003 epidemic, which although it

00:11:28.040 had a high mortality rate, was not very contagious.

00:11:31.660 So basically what Beijing, so what the White House did was essentially say, okay, we don't

00:11:37.760 have to take certain precautions.

00:11:39.940 It was only after the US saw what happened in Italy and Spain that they realized that they

00:11:45.840 had a far bigger problem on their hands, that this would become not just an epidemic,

00:11:50.840 in China, but a global pandemic, it would affect the US.

00:11:55.300 And that's why I think the White House took precautions much later than it otherwise would

00:12:00.920 have.

00:12:02.200 So you put all that stuff together and the question is, well, why would Beijing do this?

00:12:07.540 I can't think of another explanation other than that they saw that they had an opportunity

00:12:14.680 to cripple other societies.

00:12:16.860 I'm not saying that this is a bioweapon.

00:12:19.200 I don't think that it was.

00:12:21.320 But what they saw after it hurt China was that they decided that they were going to spread

00:12:27.660 it through the rest of the world.

00:12:30.660 Gordon, before I go to the next conspiracy to ask you about, is if that is a factual statement

00:12:36.660 of six weeks, how are they held accountable by the world tribunal?

00:12:45.120 What is the level of accountability to them that all the other countries can come out and

00:12:48.620 say, listen, you cost us a lot of money.

00:12:50.860 Is there any way of holding them responsible for waiting six weeks?

00:12:56.120 Well, there's a number of different ways to do that.

00:12:59.240 There are some cases in US federal district courts in Florida, Texas and Nevada.

00:13:04.580 I don't think they're going to get anywhere because there's something called the Foreign

00:13:08.980 Sovereign Immunities Act.

00:13:10.540 You just can't go out and sue another country in US federal court unless you can get around

00:13:15.640 some exceptions, unless you can take advantage of some exceptions.

00:13:19.700 There's also the International Court of Justice, but that won't work because China has to agree

00:13:25.100 to jurisdiction and of course it never would do so.

00:13:28.780 But countries are in possession effectively of assets of China.

00:13:34.080 For instance, China is holding more than a trillion dollars worth of US Treasury bills

00:13:38.640 and notes.

00:13:41.000 So we can take those just with the flick of a pen and other countries can do the same thing.

00:13:47.760 So there's a lot there that can be done.

00:13:50.700 And I'm not saying that the US should do this by itself.

00:13:53.300 I don't think we should because China would say that that was a repudiation of debt.

00:13:58.100 They would slam us for being irresponsible custodians of the global financial system.

00:14:04.480 But they would be able to say that if we took this action in conjunction with the issuers

00:14:09.280 of other major currencies.

00:14:11.020 So for instance, Ottawa, London, Brussels, Tokyo.

00:14:16.140 If we did that in connection with them, then that's somewhat of an effective measure.

00:14:21.680 Now, we can't confiscate enough of China's assets to compensate us for the economic damage

00:14:28.760 that we've suffered.

00:14:30.980 But nonetheless, we need to do something to deter China and other bad actors from doing

00:14:36.360 something like this again.

00:14:37.860 You know, we'll never get compensated for this.

00:14:40.680 We've lost lives.

00:14:41.680 You can't do anything about that.

00:14:43.740 Even with the economic damage, you know, China doesn't have enough in terms of assets.

00:14:50.360 But we do need to deter China.

00:14:53.260 And one other thing, Patrick, and that is that what China's leaders did is a crime against humanity.

00:15:01.160 If it isn't, then there is no such concept and there is no such thing.

00:15:05.580 So I think countries need to hold Xi Jinping and other senior Chinese leaders responsible.

00:15:12.120 And if we can ever get our hands on them, we need the 21st century version of the Nuremberg

00:15:16.880 trials.

00:15:17.880 And what does that look like?

00:15:18.800 What could that look like?

00:15:19.800 That could look like what we saw with German leaders, with Japanese leaders after the Second

00:15:24.980 World War?

00:15:25.980 And no one, of course, wants to do this.

00:15:28.400 But we've never seen a crime like this in history.

00:15:31.940 No country has ever attacked every other country.

00:15:36.000 And that's what China has done.

00:15:38.200 It's hard for us to grasp the magnitude of what's occurred.

00:15:44.000 But unfortunately, that's the conclusion that we have to face.

00:15:50.100 And, you know, going forward for our children, forget ourselves, but for our children and

00:15:55.120 for the rest of the world, we need to impose a cost on China so that no regime ever does

00:16:01.400 this again.

00:16:02.660 There's a big difference between Germany and Japan versus China, because neither Germany

00:16:09.440 nor Japan had 17 percent of world GDP at the time when we did that.

00:16:14.060 You're talking about, you know what, this almost reminds me of when you're going there.

00:16:18.520 It's almost reminds me of the whole too big to fail type of situation, because on one

00:16:24.040 end, if you do anything to them, how many economies are tied to China, where China definitely

00:16:30.540 knows that because, you know, there's a game of leverage and they know their level of leverage

00:16:33.540 because as much as we're talking about masks, this and China, this and China, that we're

00:16:38.020 getting masks from them.

00:16:39.360 We're relying on them on pharma.

00:16:41.140 We're relying on them on a lot of different things.

00:16:43.080 So do you think for them when they're sitting in the boardroom and nobody else is around the

00:16:47.320 big decision makers, they're saying, let it loose, relax for six weeks, let it get bigger.

00:16:53.440 Let's hurt some of these guys for them to really know how afraid they are.

00:16:56.280 And they're going to do nothing about it because they're relying on us on X, Y, Z.

00:17:00.960 And because of that, if they even think about doing anything to us, we're going to hurt them

00:17:04.680 because they're going to make sure we have to stay in business to do what we're doing

00:17:07.720 on a daily basis for the world to survive.

00:17:09.540 Do you think they went that deep into processing this before they made the decision to let it be

00:17:14.560 lax for six weeks?

00:17:16.600 Possibly.

00:17:17.300 You know, I don't know.

00:17:18.760 All I know is there's no other explanation for, you know, this other than a deliberate

00:17:24.760 release.

00:17:25.960 How they got there, you know, I don't know.

00:17:28.880 But, you know, Patrick, I think we have to worry a lot less than we normally would at first glance

00:17:34.820 think.

00:17:35.080 Yes, we're critically reliant on pharma and that we've got to reduce regardless of whatever.

00:17:42.120 80%.

00:17:43.120 That's a big number.

00:17:45.040 It is a big number, but we can do it because they are not the world's only producer of active

00:17:50.360 pharmaceutical ingredients.

00:17:53.380 And, you know, it'll be hard, but eventually we've got to do this anyway.

00:17:57.860 But the one thing that we always think about, we think, oh, China's the engine of global growth.

00:18:02.800 And so, therefore, the world is relying on it.

00:18:05.660 That's not true.

00:18:07.240 China is not an engine of global growth.

00:18:09.500 Yes, they've got a lot of growth, but they're not the engine.

00:18:13.380 Because to be an engine of global growth, a country has got to buy the goods and services

00:18:17.720 of other countries to create growth elsewhere.

00:18:21.120 And what China has done through predatory trade policies and through the theft of intellectual

00:18:27.140 property has taken growth from other countries.

00:18:31.000 So, yes, countries have relations with China.

00:18:34.260 Australia, for instance, sells them a lot of iron ore, but that iron ore is put into products

00:18:40.220 that end up, you know, in the shelves of Europe and the United States.

00:18:44.140 So I think that essentially Australia will be selling to India or Vietnam or someplace else

00:18:50.360 for sales to the U.S.

00:18:51.640 These global supply chains, if they are forced, will readjust.

00:18:56.980 And they're already doing that anyway for a number of reasons.

00:18:59.880 You know, Xi Jinping has been pushing companies out of China.

00:19:03.160 Also, President Trump's so-called trade war has been pulling companies out of China.

00:19:07.840 I think that that process will accelerate.

00:19:11.240 Because of the coronavirus epidemic, we are going to reduce our reliance on China as a producer

00:19:17.040 of pharmaceuticals and obviously medical protective equipment.

00:19:22.020 So these things are going to happen anyway.

00:19:24.420 But I think that they're certainly going to be accelerated and they should be accelerated.

00:19:30.060 I don't think they're the engine.

00:19:31.800 Obviously, I know U.S. is 100 percent the engine.

00:19:35.100 There's no question about that.

00:19:36.020 I'm 100 percent capitalist.

00:19:37.000 We escaped Iran to go to Germany refugee camp to come here because this is the American

00:19:42.000 dream.

00:19:42.340 Nobody wakes up and says the Chinese dream.

00:19:44.200 They say the American dream.

00:19:45.220 It's only one kind of a dream.

00:19:46.900 But 1.6 billion is a lot of people.

00:19:50.300 You know, and when you can produce things for nothing by a communistic government ran on

00:19:55.300 a, you know, wink, wink, capitalistic economy controlled by national, I mean, so it concerns

00:20:01.920 me to know 17 percent and it concerns me to know how many countries are relying on them.

00:20:06.680 But that's fine.

00:20:07.340 Let's continue.

00:20:07.900 I'm sure we're going to come back to this topic again.

00:20:09.500 Next conspiracy.

00:20:10.320 The death toll, okay?

00:20:13.200 The death toll.

00:20:14.940 You're hearing some people talk about the fact that, look, 99 percent of people that died

00:20:22.120 in Italy, the number one cause wasn't coronavirus.

00:20:26.580 They were there for another case and they had other health symptoms, which they had gone to

00:20:31.300 the hospital before, but it happened to be that they also got coronavirus because maybe

00:20:36.140 their immune system wasn't that strong, so they caught something.

00:20:38.700 So then the hospital had to put it that the reason for the person dying was coronavirus

00:20:43.600 and that spikes up the numbers and it scares the hell out of everybody around the world.

00:20:48.120 How much credibility do you put on the topic of the fact that people who have died, they

00:20:53.720 didn't all necessarily die due to coronavirus?

00:20:56.200 It could have been other reasons.

00:20:57.860 Yeah, I'm sure that in certain cases, coronavirus was only a contributing factor.

00:21:03.180 You know, I'm also sure that a number of people who have died, you know, they weren't getting

00:21:07.660 autopsies, especially in an emergency situation.

00:21:10.660 They could have had coronavirus and are not counted as coronavirus cases.

00:21:15.980 So, you know, counting of cases in an epidemic where there's a medical emergency, you know,

00:21:21.520 society on the verge of collapse, you know, statistical accuracy is probably not at the top of the

00:21:26.960 list of priorities of a government in that case.

00:21:29.260 And, you know, we know, for instance, in Wuhan, you know, that was authorities there were being

00:21:35.060 overwhelmed.

00:21:36.360 So accurately counting coronavirus cases, not important for them.

00:21:43.500 They were just trying to sweep up corpses on the streets and hospital floors.

00:21:49.080 When you say they, are you talking Italy?

00:21:51.180 Who is they?

00:21:52.420 Oh, in China, in Wuhan, in the early days of the outbreak, the authorities were just completely

00:21:58.740 overwhelmed.

00:21:59.920 You had people literally dropping dead in the streets.

00:22:03.200 You had corpses on hospital floors for more than 12 hours.

00:22:07.700 So this was a system that was being overwhelmed.

00:22:11.220 And the point I'm making is there were a couple of reasons why the statistics out of China, out

00:22:16.140 of Wuhan are not accurate.

00:22:17.940 One of them is just that the authorities just did not have the capability to accurately count

00:22:23.700 victims.

00:22:25.220 But also there was deliberate falsehood.

00:22:27.720 And of those two cases, of those two reasons, deliberate falsehood was certainly, I think,

00:22:33.220 the more important in terms of distorting the death toll and the number of infections.

00:22:40.520 How much do you trust the data that we're getting from U.S. on cases to death toll?

00:22:46.280 How much credibility do you give to that data?

00:22:48.280 Well, you know, we're doing the best we can.

00:22:51.780 And as I mentioned, there are a number of reasons why we won't ever get an exact, accurate toll.

00:23:00.500 As I mentioned, you don't do autopsies on people who have died.

00:23:04.420 So this is a case of, you know, testing and whatever.

00:23:09.180 Our numbers, I'm sure, lag the real situation, but that's true in every country.

00:23:15.220 I don't think that there is an attempt to underplay this, but we did see that, of course, in China,

00:23:20.820 because there are, there's a lot of evidence that shows that, indeed, those death toll numbers

00:23:29.260 could not have been true, could not be accurate.

00:23:32.840 Okay.

00:23:33.600 Okay, next conspiracy.

00:23:35.160 Is there any linkage between coronavirus and 5G?

00:23:41.180 Yeah, you hear this a little bit.

00:23:43.840 I actually, I mean, I'm not a scientist.

00:23:46.500 I don't know, but I would be very surprised if there were.

00:23:50.200 Because I can't think of why there would be a linkage between the two.

00:23:55.720 So my view is that that's a conspiracy theory.

00:23:59.120 And unless someone comes up with proof, and I don't think that they will, we can just discard

00:24:04.160 that one.

00:24:05.560 Who would be the right person to talk to about that, by the way?

00:24:07.980 That's not politically connected to an organization that's funded by the government or some big

00:24:12.300 name that's funding it behind closed doors that the guy's not going to tell the truth.

00:24:15.560 Who would be the right person to talk to about that?

00:24:18.260 You know, I don't know.

00:24:20.200 I mean, you have to find basically someone who was an epidemiologist, a virologist, and

00:24:26.220 also an expert in telecommunications.

00:24:29.460 And I don't think such people exist.

00:24:31.640 And by the way, you'd have to find someone who wasn't working for a telecom company, who

00:24:35.380 wasn't working for, you know, that person, you know, I'd love to have that person.

00:24:41.600 But no.

00:24:43.140 That person would be very interesting to sit down with.

00:24:46.820 Because we keep, you know, we want to sit down with people who are promoting the 5G

00:24:51.980 side, but they're profiting from it.

00:24:53.760 So would they really say anything bad about it?

00:24:55.760 And then there are those that are working for a nonprofit that's being funded by some

00:25:00.160 of these bigger corporations that are selling 5G.

00:25:02.400 So would they really say anything to the man that's cutting the check?

00:25:05.780 I don't know.

00:25:06.200 So, okay, let's go to the next topic.

00:25:07.560 Fair enough.

00:25:08.220 A lot of people are talking about 5G and coronavirus because of the whole radiation and how it's

00:25:12.380 heating up the process.

00:25:13.780 Next, is coronavirus a method of eliminating the older population to save countries money

00:25:23.380 because all this health care cost is really coming from those that are above 70, 75 years

00:25:29.080 old?

00:25:29.360 And maybe this is going to allow us to indirectly depopulate to help the world economy go better.

00:25:38.340 Is there any linkage between those two?

00:25:41.220 No.

00:25:41.520 No.

00:25:42.520 But I will say that there are more than just a small number of people in China who actually

00:25:49.100 think that this was a way to get rid of the elderly, but that's complete conspiracy theory.

00:25:56.600 I mean, it's just, that's not the case.

00:26:01.020 Okay.

00:26:01.420 Next.

00:26:01.940 So far, we've got six of them.

00:26:03.360 I got seven more to go.

00:26:05.260 So, okay, we already covered the seventh one.

00:26:07.800 Let me go to the next one.

00:26:08.800 Okay.

00:26:08.980 Next one's a little tricky.

00:26:12.560 And so, it's almost like the next four are combined.

00:26:15.920 So, I'll kind of say it then in a way that maybe you'll see where I'm going with this.

00:26:20.620 So, a couple of data that shows up.

00:26:22.940 The World Health Organization, the number one funder is the U.S. government.

00:26:27.000 I think the number is $600 million.

00:26:28.440 I don't know the exact number.

00:26:29.360 I think it's around a $600 million number.

00:26:32.100 The second largest contributor to the World Health Organization is a man named Bill Gates.

00:26:37.880 Okay.

00:26:38.620 So, this man named Bill Gates, if you've never heard of him, he's very rich.

00:26:41.960 He's very powerful.

00:26:43.040 He started a company called Microsoft.

00:26:44.940 Maybe you've used it in the past before.

00:26:46.580 Bill Gates, in 2015, gave a TED Talk regarding the biggest threat being pandemics and how that's something we need to be worried about.

00:26:58.800 But also, in 2011, he did an interview with Dr. Gupta of CNN.

00:27:04.740 I think it's February 4th when they did an interview.

00:27:07.880 And a lot of people were talking about the fact that Bill Gates' biggest messaging is depopulation.

00:27:13.620 So, what I did is I went on Google.

00:27:15.720 I typed in the words.

00:27:17.080 Did Bill Gates say to depopulate the world?

00:27:20.340 So, the first thing that pops out is Snopes.

00:27:22.800 So, I go to Snopes and I pull it up and it says, inaccurate, false.

00:27:27.260 Then, it puts the transcript on the bottom, which I have it.

00:27:30.860 I'd like to read it because this leads me to a question here.

00:27:34.000 The question asked by Dr. Gupta is, $10 billion over the next 10 years to make it the year of the vaccine.

00:27:41.280 What does this mean exactly?

00:27:43.460 Bill Gates, over this decade, we believe unbelievable progress can be made in both inventing new vaccines and making sure that they get out to all the children who need them.

00:27:52.800 We only need about six or seven more and then you would have all the tools to reduce childhood death, next word he uses, reduce population growth and everything.

00:28:04.940 The stability, the environment benefits from that, et cetera, et cetera.

00:28:08.400 So, then I went online to look at this video.

00:28:11.000 I went and typed in the following words on Google and the words were, this is what I searched.

00:28:18.280 I typed in, I want to get the exact words that I have here, Bill Gates, Dr. Gupta, reduce population, 2011.

00:28:28.280 Those were the words I put on Google.

00:28:31.020 The first link that came at the top was the Snopes that said it's not factual, it's false.

00:28:36.120 The second link that came up was a CNN link to the article and the interview of February, 2011.

00:28:43.420 When I clicked on it, the link was a dead link.

00:28:46.800 Then I tried it on my phone, then I tried it on another phone, it was all a dead link.

00:28:51.020 Then I had one of my employees here is from Norway who uses a VPN from Norway to try to go log in from a Norway VPN.

00:28:57.920 He was able to get into the site.

00:28:59.320 When he gets into the site, his link with the transcript was there, but the video was taken down.

00:29:05.880 You couldn't watch the video.

00:29:07.380 So, after our research team did some research, we finally found the video and that exact video between Dr. Gupta and Bill Gates where he talks about reducing population growth.

00:29:17.760 You know, a big part of this when you look at China buying a big part of Africa because of natural resources, this is not something that's private.

00:29:25.500 The world knows about this. It's not like I'm just throwing something out there that's non-factual.

00:29:31.200 That's factual. You can kind of see the amount of property in Lander Binder.

00:29:35.060 The countries that are growing the fastest population-wise, most of them are in Africa.

00:29:39.520 Not saying all of them, but a lot of them are in Africa.

00:29:42.040 7.6% growth, 4.3%.

00:29:45.920 In the U.S., I think it's at 1.38, some number, 1.08 to 1.38.

00:29:50.640 And I think China's at 0.38 right now, give or take.

00:29:53.200 Sometimes they're saying it's negative, but that's the number you're seeing.

00:29:55.500 How much do you buy into the idea that Bill Gates and the vaccines and the pandemics,

00:30:05.520 this was all orchestrated by the powerful people who are kind of preparing for this to come up

00:30:10.260 to introduce a vaccine to the world?

00:30:12.520 It's almost like, here's the problem, the Hegelian dialectic.

00:30:15.980 This is the problem. Blame Johnny.

00:30:18.540 I have the solution. I am the hero.

00:30:20.820 How much of it is that, or do you think that's a conspiracy theory?

00:30:24.200 Yeah, I don't think Bill Gates is trying to reduce population by, and I can't quite think

00:30:34.300 of the word, but I don't think that Bill Gates is out to kill people or whatever.

00:30:40.520 Bill Gates probably believes that there should be fewer humans, and he would like to improve

00:30:45.940 human health. But that doesn't mean that he's trying to improve human health and vaccines

00:30:50.500 to sort of reduce the overall number of people.

00:30:55.520 I mean, I would disagree with him on certain things, but I don't think he's malevolent.

00:30:59.780 Okay, so zero credibility there on your end.

00:31:03.720 Zero.

00:31:04.660 Zero. Okay, so let's cross that one out.

00:31:06.980 Okay, next, the World Health Organization, you keep hearing about Tedros Adhanom,

00:31:13.940 and you're seeing a lot of friendliness with him and China, and he's sat down with Xi Jinping.

00:31:22.380 You've seen this before. I'm not the first person that's bringing this up.

00:31:25.220 How much a World Health Organization is being controlled by the influence of China on what

00:31:31.400 to report, what not to report, slow roll, you know, the dates at first, it's not that

00:31:35.700 big of a big deal, you know, it's okay, and then U.S. shuts it down, and oh my gosh, U.S.

00:31:40.820 is racist, and they don't care about Chinese people. How could you do something like this?

00:31:43.940 And then they said, no, it's a serious pandemic. The timing was very off, and the world relies

00:31:49.000 on this World Health Organization. Are World Health Organization Tedros and China in bed

00:31:55.260 together?

00:31:56.260 Oh, they certainly appear to be that way, Patrick.

00:31:59.320 Okay.

00:31:59.900 You got to look at what the WHO did in this circumstance, and it is, there's no adjective

00:32:06.840 in the English language, which describes how bad Tedros and the WHO were. So, for instance,

00:32:15.340 I talked about that January 14th tweet, where the WHO's propagated, helped China propagate

00:32:22.160 the notion that there are no human-to-human transmissions of coronavirus, where WHO, I'm sure,

00:32:29.000 knew that there were. How could they not know about it? I mean, they're a World Health Organization.

00:32:33.480 They've got doctors. Also, on January 10th, WHO came out with a statement to support China's

00:32:40.120 goal of not having countries impose travel restrictions on arrivals from China. So, you

00:32:47.560 put those two things together, and it shows that the WHO was very much supporting Beijing's

00:32:53.580 initiatives, and Beijing's initiatives had to be malicious. Also, you know, Tedros did a

00:32:59.800 number of other things. So, for instance, in January, he delayed for as long as possible WHO's

00:33:06.560 formal designation of the coronavirus as a public health emergency of international concern. Also,

00:33:13.360 he delayed for as long as possible the WHO's designation of coronavirus as a pandemic, which

00:33:20.440 eventually occurred, I think, on March 11th. We saw Tedros in Beijing at the end of January talk about how

00:33:30.680 other countries should emulate China's system and talked about the quote-unquote superiority of China's

00:33:38.200 system, which is a thinly veiled attack on democracy. And then, of course, WHO has very much been

00:33:48.200 supporting the notion that China's statistics are accurate. None of those would be, I think,

00:33:54.840 actions of an organization that really was dedicated to stopping the virus from infecting people. So, you put

00:34:03.560 that together. The one thing you can say is that if you took the Communist Party of China and the World

00:34:09.400 Health Organization together, they're responsible for taking this, which should have just been a local

00:34:16.600 outbreak in Wuhan or maybe even Hubei Province, and making it, first of all, a nationwide epidemic in

00:34:23.320 China, plus also a global pandemic. None of those last two things would have occurred had not these two

00:34:30.600 organizations, Communist Party and WHO, acted together. So, you can argue about who's more

00:34:37.400 responsible, and I think, of course, it's the Communist Party. But the point is WHO helped spread

00:34:44.520 this coronavirus around the world, and so that its actions on balance have been maligned. And that

00:34:52.760 leads us to a number of conclusions about what we do. You talked about the funding of WHO. That's right,

00:34:58.040 the U.S. by far is the largest funder. We put $440 million in the WHO last year. You add Bill Gates,

00:35:05.080 it's a lot of other money. We shouldn't be doing that.

00:35:10.200 What, why would, what's the, everything to me is about motive, right? Everything is motive. We get

00:35:16.920 married, why do you get married? There's a motive. Why do you ask a girl out? Well, there's a motive.

00:35:21.240 Why does she say yes? Motive. Why do you buy a real estate? Motive. Why do you buy a car? Motive.

00:35:26.680 Why do you wear a close motive? Why do we do anything? There's a motive behind it. It doesn't

00:35:32.040 mean all the motive is negative. It just means there's motive behind it. Some negative, some

00:35:35.400 positive. Okay. What is the motive between World Health Organization protecting China? That's what

00:35:41.560 I'm curious about. You know, I don't know Tedros, so I'm not in his head. So I can't tell you what his

00:35:49.080 motive is. But you know, you can say that China lobbied very hard for his election as director

00:35:54.440 general of WHO. He has very leftist tendencies. Maybe there's an answer in there. You know,

00:36:01.640 it's a question. I understand why you're looking at motive. But you know, motive is one thing that,

00:36:08.440 you know, is really hard to ascertain with certainty. Because as I said, I don't know, in fact,

00:36:15.320 what Xi Jinping was thinking. I don't know, in fact, what Tedros is thinking. But I don't really

00:36:20.040 need to know. All I can see is what they did. And that's really where we can see the crimes that

00:36:29.320 they've committed. So I don't know motive. But as I said, I don't care.

00:36:36.520 Yeah, only reason I ask is because if somebody is working closely with Tedros,

00:36:40.760 and let's just say they're in a meeting, and there are 40, 50 of them, and they're on the inside,

00:36:45.880 and they know the decisions that were made, there's no way in the world Tedros is the only one

00:36:51.240 that's making a decision. I trust there's another 20, 30, 40 people that are in the know of why the

00:36:56.120 decisions were made. Somebody in that group has to be furious because someone in their life, they

00:37:03.240 lost somebody or it affected somebody or they were affected because their elderly parents were relying

00:37:09.160 on a retirement plan. Now they have to work harder or one of their relatives lost a bit. Someone has

00:37:14.520 to be furious on the inside with Tedros to be able to come out and say, listen, I don't think you're

00:37:19.320 doing a good job. Just like this 37-year-old doctor out of Wuhan who came out and was a whistleblower to

00:37:26.840 China and said, we're not doing the right thing. He ended up passing away. He disappeared. I don't know

00:37:30.680 what you call that, but the only reason I'm asking motive is because I do believe everybody

00:37:38.200 at some level has a certain level of decency to say, I just don't think we're doing the right thing,

00:37:43.960 man. We got to do something about this, especially at this magnitude. This is not a small thing here.

00:37:50.120 This is a very big thing here. Someone has to come out and say what really happened.

00:37:53.160 Well, Bruce Alward, who has generally been described as the number two in WHO, his formal

00:38:02.280 title is Senior Advisor to the Director General. A couple of days ago, he came out with an interview

00:38:08.040 where he said, it was very important for us at an early stage of the outbreak to be able to study

00:38:13.880 this. So we needed China's cooperation, which is really what his message was. So I suppose you could

00:38:19.080 say that for some people, the WHO, they were saying, well, we've got to be nice to China,

00:38:23.880 to butter them up, so they'll allow us to go to Wuhan and study it. But as we just talked about,

00:38:30.680 WHO, they stiff-armed WHO in Wuhan. So whatever the motive was, and that's really-

00:38:38.760 What do you mean? You just said, WHO stiff-harm WHO in Wuhan?

00:38:41.800 No, China stiff-armed WHO, preventing them from an adequate opportunity

00:38:48.760 to study the virus. I suppose, you know, one could say that maybe that was what they were thinking.

00:38:55.720 But, you know, it's very, very difficult to discern motive. What we have to do is look at what they did

00:39:04.120 and what they should have known at the time that they committed certain acts. And that leads to very

00:39:10.920 dark conclusions about not only China, but about the WHO.

00:39:15.000 One of the most annoying things that my dad did to me is hold me accountable. I hated it. I couldn't

00:39:21.240 stand it. When I was in the army, I couldn't stand being held accountable to formation, and you got

00:39:26.920 to get in, and four o'clock, and you got to run, and you got to report. Accountability is very annoying.

00:39:33.560 But accountability also builds leaders, and accountability builds trust. One of the things that

00:39:39.480 seems very common here that's missing is accountability. It concerns me. When I even

00:39:43.160 brought it up to you earlier, I said, how should China be held accountable at the, you know, World

00:39:48.760 Tribunal? And you're like, well, it's not real. We have to figure out a way to get past this.

00:39:53.800 And you said, we need to maybe go back to what, you know, Nuremberg and Japan and, you know,

00:39:57.800 Germany, all that stuff. But if there is no accountability, why wouldn't I do it again?

00:40:03.800 Right. If there's no consequences, why wouldn't I? It's like, it's a slap in the hand. It's like,

00:40:08.600 hey, okay, all right, no problem. You're okay if I do this again. I'm going to do it again, and again,

00:40:12.280 and again, because you need me. So where does accountability come into play here?

00:40:16.520 Yeah, well, you know, that's absolutely right. And that's why I said we need to impose some costs,

00:40:22.040 because if we don't do that, they'll do this again. You know, and I suppose the one thing that will

00:40:27.240 happen, and this is something that is within our power to do, is that countries are going to start

00:40:33.400 isolating China. You know, for decades, for five decades, countries have tried to integrate China

00:40:40.200 into the international system. They thought it was a positive good. And because of that,

00:40:45.000 they overlooked a lot of irresponsible and dangerous conduct on the part of Beijing,

00:40:49.640 because they wanted to encourage to entice China, so that it would enmesh itself in the, you know,

00:40:56.280 rules, norms, conventions, treaties, but you know, it hasn't worked. And what we're seeing is, I think,

00:41:02.600 people starting to understand that China is not reformable. And if China is not reformable,

00:41:08.280 that leads to the conclusion that we need to get China out of the UN, out of the World Trade

00:41:14.200 Organization, out of the World Health Organization, and just start to isolate it. And I know people

00:41:21.000 don't want to do that. But you got to remember, you know, we always think, you know, China should be

00:41:26.280 moving on the right path. If you look at what China did in the SARS epidemic of 2002-2003, it was really

00:41:33.960 awful. But as awful as it was, its behavior in the coronavirus epidemic of 2019 to, you know, 2020,

00:41:43.800 is, it's been much, much worse than it was. And so we've got to understand that our idea of engaging

00:41:50.680 China just has not worked. And we got to try something else. And I'm not saying I can't hold

00:41:56.760 my hand over my heart and saying that isolating China will be any better. I think it will. And

00:42:02.280 that's a long conversation in and of itself. But we have to say that what we have been doing has not

00:42:08.920 worked. It's encouraged China to be more belligerent, more provocative, more hostile,

00:42:13.480 more dangerous. So we've got to do something else.

00:42:15.720 I agree. And it has to be some strong measures. It can't be light, you know, it has to be some real

00:42:22.280 measures for them to know you can't keep doing this. Okay, so the next one here for you, this,

00:42:26.680 this one's going to be probably a five second answer for you. And we'll move on with this one.

00:42:30.120 But some people wanted me to ask, I'm asking this for you. And is this, does this have anything to do

00:42:35.160 with so many powerful people that were linked to Epstein and Clinton? And what happened there to the

00:42:41.480 point where it's a full on distraction? And it has something to do with China? Or you give it zero

00:42:46.120 credibility? Zero. Okay, let's move on. I told you it's going to be five seconds. Next. How much of

00:42:51.480 this has to do with China realizing because I think they've even said it, one of their military leaders

00:42:58.120 has said that we cannot go against US when it comes down to power of military, they'll crush us, we don't

00:43:04.200 have that kind of a military that US has, there's no way in the world we can compete with them. So they took a

00:43:09.960 bigger part of their resources to want to invest not in traditional warfare, but more in biochemical,

00:43:17.480 drug trafficking, poisoning, environmental destruction, and computer virus dissemination.

00:43:23.240 How much credibility do you give to that?

00:43:25.160 A hundred percent.

00:43:26.440 A hundred percent.

00:43:27.720 Look, we all we have to do is listen to what Chinese leaders have said themselves. Chinese military

00:43:37.720 officers have talked about this, you know, and we have seen what what China has done. So I think that

00:43:45.320 essentially, we've got to be really concerned about what you know, they call three warfares or

00:43:51.080 unrestricted warfare, which is the title of that book from two colonels who are now two generals. So

00:43:57.560 yeah, they have been trying to undermine our society. And we don't, we don't really have to,

00:44:05.720 you know, we can see what they've been doing. But we don't really have to speculate too much because

00:44:11.320 last May, May 2019, People's Daily, which is the most authoritative publication in China,

00:44:18.360 it's the self described mouthpiece of the Communist Party, People's Daily carried a piece

00:44:23.880 that declared a quote unquote, people's war on the United States. And Xinhua News Agency also carried

00:44:32.200 that piece. Xinhua is official Chinese government media outlet. So you know, they declared a people's

00:44:37.640 war. I mean, how clear do we want them to be? You know, we say that they're not transparent. But as

00:44:43.960 you know, people have said, they telegraphed their punches. And that's exactly what they did in this time.

00:44:48.760 You know, we live in a democracy, we may not like our congressmen, our senator, our governor or our

00:44:55.960 president. But we know that they're legitimate, because they were elected in China. And so we don't

00:45:02.200 have propaganda. But in China, when you have an insecure, small ruling group, propaganda is the most

00:45:09.720 important thing. And so they can come up and say these ludicrous things. And we Americans are really

00:45:15.480 good at ignoring it by saying, Oh, they can't really believe that. But yeah, they really believe

00:45:19.720 it. And they, they propagate these narratives, because they believe it's absolutely critical to

00:45:24.920 the survival of the regime. You know, we Americans ignored everything that Osama bin Laden said and

00:45:33.240 did in the 1990s. We should not be ignoring what those who are hostile to us are saying. And so we should

00:45:41.240 be paying attention to what the Chinese have been saying. And it is really belligerent.

00:45:47.880 Wow. Okay, so I'll follow up with a question on that. I'll go to the next one here.

00:45:52.440 Why? Why? Why does it feel like whether it's the media, whether it's many of these politicians,

00:46:01.160 or even some of the folks who are billionaires from New York or elsewhere? Why does it seem like there is a

00:46:07.560 underlying level of discomfort with putting too much blame on China and holding them accountable

00:46:16.280 and almost protecting them saying that's not nice. You don't talk to them like that. These are good

00:46:19.880 people. Why would you do that? Why is there such a movement going on? And it's very subtle. You almost

00:46:24.920 can't catch it if you don't pay attention to that way. Why is that going on? Why do you think?

00:46:29.160 Well, here again, we're dealing with other people's intentions.

00:46:32.120 But my guess is a couple things. First of all, we live in a highly partisan atmosphere right now.

00:46:38.680 And so people are just using whatever they can to club President Trump. So that's, I think,

00:46:45.720 part of it. Also, because there are elements in American society that have gotten really rich off

00:46:51.800 of China. And so they don't want that to change. So you've got people on Wall Street, you've got

00:46:58.600 people in boardrooms, chambers of commerce. They see much more in common with their fellows in China

00:47:08.440 than they do with other Americans. So there's an elitism, which, you know, it's typified, of course,

00:47:15.160 at Davos. So I think that that's part of it as well. But you know, it's really dangerous, Patrick,

00:47:24.200 because what we've got right now is we have a common enemy. That enemy means us harm. And that

00:47:30.760 enemy is attacking us. Whether we like him or not, we've only got one president until January 20, 2021.

00:47:39.720 And that means that we're going to have to rally behind President Trump, we're going to have to

00:47:44.520 unify, because we've got to protect ourselves, because our republic is at risk. We tend to think

00:47:52.840 of America as powerful. But you look around America today, we've got Americans dying, we've got an

00:47:59.000 economy at a standstill in many locations, we've got a society that is paralyzed, and we have a common

00:48:05.720 enemy China. So we Americans have got to wise up and realize there's some pretty dangerous folks out

00:48:12.120 there. And if we don't get together, we're going to lose the American experiment.

00:48:18.040 I agree. Question for you on the next conspiracy. How much of this is the media sensationalizing,

00:48:28.760 over sensationalizing the credibility of a coronavirus to hurt the economy and lengthen

00:48:35.640 this process, the longer it hurts the economy to eventually lead to President Trump not getting

00:48:40.840 reelected? Is there any credibility to that? I don't do domestic politics. But you know,

00:48:47.240 the media is the media. They will sensationalize things. And all parts of the media will, of course,

00:48:55.880 tend to do that. I think you know, most members in the media are responsible. But you know,

00:48:59.800 there is that sort of tendency to say this is brand new or whatever. But this is where we're dealing

00:49:08.360 with something which creates fear. And that is always going to magnify whatever, you know,

00:49:16.200 irresponsible tendencies there are in human beings. So we have fear for a real reason. That is that this is a

00:49:24.520 dangerous pathogen. And until we understand it, I don't get too concerned about overreaction to it. I'm

00:49:33.960 much more concerned about the underreaction. Now we may be able to undo some of the measures that we have

00:49:42.520 taken to beat the virus. I mean, and people who are much smarter than I am will be able to talk about

00:49:49.240 that. But nonetheless, until we can see a way out of this, we've got to be very concerned because this

00:49:56.440 bug is highly transmissible. And it's also lethal. And it's not just what happened in our society. Take a

00:50:03.320 look at Italy. Take a look at Spain. Take a look at China. Take a look at South Korea. All of these societies

00:50:09.800 have gone through crises. And we've got to be concerned what might happen next.

00:50:17.000 Are we, next one here, are we potentially at the beginning of a World War III being created? And if

00:50:25.640 not, will the next World War III be looking similar to what we're currently going through? Meaning it

00:50:32.280 being a biowarfare type of a thing that we'll be dealing with? That's very possible. As we started

00:50:40.760 out with your first conspiracy theory, I don't think this was a bioweapon. But, you know, and a lot of

00:50:48.840 people, you go back six weeks ago, you go back maybe last week, and people would say, oh, look, you know,

00:50:54.680 bioweapons, they aren't really practical, you know, why have one? Well, what we have seen is this

00:51:03.960 coronavirus, probably not a bioweapon. But what it's done is it is paralyzed societies. And I'm sure

00:51:12.840 that China and other countries have seen what a biological agent can do. So this wasn't even a

00:51:21.480 weapon in all probability, but look what it did to the United States. We have, you know, we have

00:51:28.280 a Nimitz class carrier, the Theodore Roosevelt, now sitting in Guam, taken out of action because some

00:51:35.000 sailors on it have coronavirus. I think the Chinese have recognized that because they talk about it in

00:51:40.360 their propaganda. You know, we have a biological weapons convention, the United States is a party to

00:51:46.280 it, China's party to it. But unfortunately, there are no inspection regimes in that convention. And

00:51:54.360 we have got to make sure that it does because right now we have seen the power of a biological weapon,

00:52:01.160 not a biologic, I'm not saying coronavirus is a biological weapon. But this is what could be

00:52:07.400 what the world's future bioweapons look like. Just a simple virus.

00:52:14.040 If an evil empire is watching this, there's a few of them, one of them is north of South Korea,

00:52:19.880 if some evil empires are watching this, this is leaving a lot of strategies for other countries to

00:52:27.640 want to use this as a potential method in the future. Forget about just being China. This is

00:52:31.720 like, it's almost as if, you know, the TV show when it first came out, was it not Cops? Was it

00:52:38.920 not America's Most Wanted? What was the one that would show how people were committing the crimes?

00:52:43.400 In a way, they were teaching people how to become criminals. Non-criminals were saying,

00:52:47.480 well, that's a pretty good way of going and robbing a bank. Very creative.

00:52:50.360 Oh, CSI.

00:52:51.640 CSI, yeah. So this is one of those things that's teaching a lot of people what is potential

00:52:58.280 to go out there and do. Here's another conspiracy theory. Tell me if this is a conspiracy or it's

00:53:04.600 100% factual. Does China have a million to three million people at concentration camps over there?

00:53:11.000 That is not a conspiracy theory. They are detention facilities in what China calls Xinjiang,

00:53:18.360 which is the northwestern part of China. The local inhabitants say it's not China,

00:53:24.520 that it is a separate republic called East Turkestan. But there are detention facilities

00:53:29.960 there. We don't know the exact number of people in those facilities, but the lower estimates are

00:53:35.800 one million and the upper estimates are what you mentioned, three million. And these are,

00:53:41.640 they fit the definition of concentration camps. And we know that this is part of China's policy to

00:53:49.640 eliminate Uyghur culture and eliminate Islam from China. So this is horrific.

00:53:56.440 Is anybody doing anything to that or can they be held accountable to that to be audited or not really?

00:54:00.440 They can do whatever they're doing right now. Well, this is a crime against humanity.

00:54:05.560 This is what as bad as the Third Reich did before it started the mass exterminations. And what China has

00:54:12.280 done, and people we know are dying in those camps because Beijing has been building crematorium.

00:54:16.920 There's been killing associated with this. It just hasn't been the march you into a gas chamber type

00:54:23.720 of killing. But it's extermination of a culture slowly. And we know that people are being killed.

00:54:31.880 So this is a crime against humanity. And there's not too much that the international community can do.

00:54:38.200 And certainly not very much the international community has done. But Secretary of State Pompeo,

00:54:43.800 to his great credit, has talked about this. And at some point, you know, this is one of those things where

00:54:51.080 by itself, it's not going to get the international community to move. But when in conjunction with,

00:54:58.120 you know, the initiatives against the Tibetans, which are similar, you know, the attacks on Christian churches,

00:55:05.080 you know, all these things that are occurring together, including releasing this virus on the

00:55:12.040 world, these are the types of things when taken in the aggregate are going to get the international

00:55:17.080 community to do something to start containing China, to start not enriching it with trade and with the rest

00:55:23.880 of it. So I think that we will gradually, I hope sooner, but I think that we will gradually see

00:55:30.680 a new attitude on China, which is going to be, we're going to get to the place where we were with the

00:55:36.760 Soviet Union. And it took a long time, you know, George Kennan had to write his long telegram of 1946,

00:55:43.720 and his ex article in foreign affairs in 1947, took a little bit of time for the United States to get to the

00:55:49.720 point where we saw the Soviet Union as an adversary. I think we're getting there to China about on China

00:55:56.120 really fast. It's actually not a bad thing. The fact that that's happened with the majority,

00:56:01.160 I think that's a good, a healthy level of paranoia is a very good thing for a nation. Like you said,

00:56:06.840 I'm not much concerned about overreaction. I'm more concerned about underreaction,

00:56:10.440 which is a powerful statement you made earlier today. So okay, so look, I got a different question

00:56:14.680 for you now. We're done with the conspiracies. We can go just to some questions for you.

00:56:18.520 You're from China. You lived there two decades. Your father's Chinese. Why do you not like the

00:56:25.080 country your father's from? What do you have against China? I mean, you are, you are half Chinese.

00:56:30.360 What do you have against the country that, you know, your family's from?

00:56:34.920 Yeah, I have nothing against China. I love China. I have a lot against the men and women who rule it

00:56:42.520 as the Communist Party. So this is something where it's very different. You know, we talk about China

00:56:48.360 and that's a sort of shorthand. But the Communist Party isn't China. And the Chinese people are, first

00:56:55.480 of all, the most direct victims of the Communist Party. And because they are, it means that they're

00:57:01.160 one of our most important allies, because, you know, the Communist Party is reaching out and causing

00:57:06.600 harm, not just to the Chinese people, but to us as well. And you know, if you go back before the

00:57:12.120 Coronavirus epidemic, we Americans sort of looked at what was going on in the camps that you mentioned,

00:57:19.000 with the Uyghurs. We looked at the Tibetans, the Christians, people in Hong Kong, people in Taiwan,

00:57:25.800 and we said, Oh, that's over there. But right now, we have seen through the deliberate actions of the

00:57:33.240 Communist Party, that they have reached out and hurt Americans, killed Americans. And so this is no longer

00:57:43.480 just them over there. This is them in our society. You know, just to kind of give us a perspective,

00:57:50.280 when you lived there for two decades, what was the timeline? What years were you there?

00:57:54.200 Okay, I lived in Hong Kong from 1981 to 1991. Between 91 and 96, lived in California, but most of my

00:58:04.600 law practice was in China. So we crossed the Pacific an awful lot. And then from 96 to 2001, lived in

00:58:13.000 Shanghai. And then after that, I gave up practice of law. This was, my practice was focused on Hong

00:58:21.480 Kong, China, and the region. But you actually said some, you said, the fall of China is coming,

00:58:31.480 and you predicted it back in 01. I mean, that was, I do believe you said something about China in 2001,

00:58:37.160 right? It was your first prediction you made. Right. And I wrote a book called The Coming Collapse

00:58:41.400 of China was published July 2001. And in it, I said that the Communist Party would fall by in a decade.

00:58:49.000 So I was wrong on timing. I didn't happen to, I didn't happen to foresee the 2008 downturn,

00:58:56.280 which I think, certainly, materially strengthened the Communist Party for a number of reasons. But I

00:59:03.320 think that it is still coming. And you know, it's not about me. It's about what we can see on the ground in

00:59:10.440 China, that there is a fragility to the regime. And, you know, I can't, I can't say when it's going to

00:59:17.480 occur. But we got to be concerned about a weak China, which I think is much more of a concern than a

00:59:24.280 strong China.

00:59:26.600 For somebody who's never been to China, who's never lived in China, there's a difference if you've

00:59:30.280 gone there for a business trip for a week or two weeks versus living there from 81 to 91, and then from

00:59:35.080 96 to 01. You've lived there, you have a day to day life, you're working there. Can you give us a

00:59:41.640 glimpse of what the day to day life of living in China looks like, like the biggest difference between

00:59:48.840 US and China, you come home, you watch sports, you watch TV, how many TV channels do you have?

00:59:53.960 How much are you being brainwashed? How are you being brainwashed? What do you have access to from

00:59:57.960 China? What kind of channels? If I'm at a hotel in China, do I have access to ESPN? Can I watch?

01:00:03.480 What does it look like? What is it like living there compared to US?

01:00:08.520 Well, when we lived there, there really was, I mean, of course, it was different. The US was

01:00:14.200 more prosperous, more developed. But China was going through sort of like a renaissance.

01:00:20.840 When we lived there, there was a lot of optimism. I can remember when we first moved there, it was

01:00:26.280 August 1996. And my wife was said, she's on the phone. She said, Mom, China's not communist anymore.

01:00:35.240 And I happened to agree with her. And one could make the case then that a lot of people did

01:00:41.160 that China was moving in the right direction. And yeah, China was just different. I mean,

01:00:46.280 they had better food, but you know, pretty much it was, it was, you could see the optimism in society,

01:00:56.440 as you could see in America. These days, I think it's different. I mean, China has become much more

01:01:01.320 prosperous, so it is more developed, but it's a debtor place. Because Xi Jinping believes in

01:01:10.440 absolute control over society. So we are seeing things like the social credit system, which is

01:01:17.400 going to be nationwide pretty soon. We can see extraordinary attempts to control people.

01:01:22.680 So it's a, it's a very different place. And there's, I think, the optimism that was there

01:01:29.080 two decades ago, is not there now. And part of it that it is going to be very different is that the

01:01:35.720 Chinese economy was not doing well before the coronavirus, but was brought to a standstill,

01:01:41.960 and indeed, is deep in contraction. So that is a new factor there. And so it makes China,

01:01:49.080 I think, very different from the US. This is a very technical question,

01:01:53.240 but probably the most important question I asked you in the interview, has your experience with China

01:01:59.000 totally gotten you to a point where you no longer eat Chinese food?

01:02:02.520 No, you eat Chinese food all the time. You know, Chinese food is great.

01:02:09.080 I love Chinese food.

01:02:11.320 As I said, China has better food than the US does.

01:02:13.720 Yeah, I love Chinese food. Okay, so social media question for you. I'm just curious with this one

01:02:20.920 here. If Facebook, if YouTube, if Twitter, if all of these apps that we use in the US

01:02:30.600 were available in China the last 10 years, if all of these social media apps were available to the

01:02:38.360 public in China the last 10 years, do you think the pandemic and coronavirus would have gone to the

01:02:43.960 point that it is today? Well, if they were uncensored, like they are in the US.

01:02:49.880 Uncensored, fully uncensored. Yeah, I think that the Communist Party would have acted very differently,

01:02:55.240 because they would not have been able to hide things like they did. I mean, one of the things

01:03:01.400 that Xi Jinping has done in the coronavirus epidemic is to oppose extraordinary information controls.

01:03:08.440 Now they did that, of course, when the virus broke out. But they also they had a brief period of like

01:03:14.360 three or four days of relative openness from January 20 to January 26. And then they went back to

01:03:22.280 controlling the narrative again. And we know that because the Communist Party appointed its leading

01:03:27.800 group on the coronavirus. Under Xi Jinping, basically what's happened is he sort of bypassed

01:03:33.720 the bureaucracy. And the Communist Party has set up these groups on the economy or whatever.

01:03:38.920 Well, they set up one on the coronavirus and they announced the roster on January 26. And it was a

01:03:44.920 nine person group. Of the group, there was only one person was a public health official. And even she,

01:03:53.320 I think her degree was not in public health, though I'm not positive about that. But we do know

01:03:59.880 that it was heavy with propaganda officials. The vice chairman was Communist Party's chief of propaganda.

01:04:09.080 The chairman of the leading group was the premier of the country, who's basically a political hack.

01:04:14.040 And there were a lot of propaganda types on it, which showed that Xi Jinping's priority was not ending

01:04:18.680 the epidemic, but was controlling the narrative. And since that time, there has been evidence of this

01:04:25.960 extraordinary secrecy campaign. So they've just gone back to the old way of doing things. So yeah,

01:04:31.720 things would have been a lot different if there were Twitter and Facebook and there was just an open

01:04:37.080 and free social media. But unfortunately, that's not the case. I think if U.S. was to negotiate now

01:04:46.040 with them, and if China wants to do any kind of trade deals, do you think it'd be a good idea for

01:04:51.080 President Trump to say you got to have free press and you have to allow every single one of our

01:04:55.800 platforms in your country with no censorship or else we're doing business together?

01:04:59.560 Yeah, I mean, that would be a good thing to do. But Xi Jinping would never agree to that because

01:05:04.360 he does believe, he believes that he should have absolute control over the party, that the party

01:05:09.800 should have absolute control over society. So he's never going to agree to that. You know, we've got a

01:05:15.240 phase one trade deal signed January 15. I mean, who knows whether China is going to adhere to its

01:05:21.400 obligations. But phase two is just not going to happen, largely because they kick the hard issues

01:05:30.120 down the road, and Xi Jinping is just not going to give up on them. And the issues that they kick

01:05:35.880 down the road, like state subsidies, are a lot easier for him to deal with than what you just talked

01:05:41.160 about, which is open and free media. That is just completely antithetical to Xi Jinping's conception

01:05:47.560 of the Communist Party. I'm from Iran. I'm born in 1978. I was born in Tehran at the peak of the

01:05:54.600 revolution when it was taking place with Sinama Rex fire, where three months after I was born,

01:05:59.480 the Shah was in exile. And it was the largest coup you ever saw. Nine million people revolted against

01:06:05.480 the Shah. And a lot of the things that you're seeing, you're talking about nothing was happening

01:06:12.120 to this extreme in Iran at all. The economy was doing better. Women were free. They could go out

01:06:18.760 there and vote. They had freedom. They could do pretty much every career. They didn't have to get

01:06:24.200 married, you know, 13 years old. He had raised it to 18 years old. And then Khomeini comes in,

01:06:30.360 and through a revolution of spreading tapes, the people revolted against the regime until it

01:06:37.720 eventually flipped. Wasn't the best thing for them. That's why I got this guy's picture in the

01:06:41.480 back. Obviously, there's a reason why the Shah's in my painting in the back. What are the chances of

01:06:46.440 the people of China getting so sick of it? Would they create their own coup and go against the regime?

01:06:52.520 And if they do, how likely is it that they'll be successful?

01:06:56.840 Well, you know, they tried that in 1989, in a sense. They didn't actually, in 1989,

01:07:06.360 the genesis of this was basically unhappiness about the economy, which then was booming,

01:07:13.320 but there was a lot of inflation. But what happened is through Communist Party hardheadedness,

01:07:19.400 people then started talking about the big issues, about democracy, about freedoms. And that's when,

01:07:25.960 you know, we saw not only in Beijing, but in 370 other cities in China, people took to the streets.

01:07:33.320 Right now, we are seeing some really interesting trends and developments. So for instance, you were

01:07:39.560 talking about the death of Dr. Li Wenlong, who was one of the Wuhan eight. When he died, there was

01:07:45.160 white hot sentiment throughout social media in China. People were, you know, they started that hashtag,

01:07:51.800 I want freedom of speech. And also, they started to adopt as their anthem, that politically impactful

01:07:59.400 song from Les Miserables. Do you hear the people sing? And that was a clear message to Xi Jinping,

01:08:06.360 especially because the kids in Hong Kong had adopted that as a protest against China. So it was

01:08:13.480 unmistakable what people in China were saying. Now, there have been a lot of times where people in

01:08:19.800 China had gotten really upset, the Communist Party, and that anger for one way or another melted away.

01:08:25.720 But what's different now, Patrick, is that you've got an economy which is basically collapsed.

01:08:34.840 Isn't it perfect timing though, what you're saying right now? When do you collapse,

01:08:39.000 is this the best time to do it?

01:08:40.360 It's a time where I think people are not going to buy the argument that the Communist Party is the

01:08:47.560 one to ensure prosperity, because there's no prosperity. You have, you know, you can see

01:08:51.960 what's happening in our country. The same thing has happened in China only earlier. But you know,

01:08:57.400 you've had an economy, which is probably for the first quarter of this year, down 25%, maybe 30%

01:09:04.280 year on year, which is an enormous number. They won't report that, of course. But you people,

01:09:12.920 livelihoods are at stake, you know, so many small businesses in China have closed, like they've

01:09:17.720 closed in our country. So this is sort of like the tinder for an explosion. Whether it happens or not,

01:09:26.280 I can't say, I can't say at this time. But people in China have been talking about, quote unquote,

01:09:32.360 China's Chernobyl. And that, of course, is the reference to the nuclear plant accident in 1986 in

01:09:39.560 the Ukraine, which is generally thought to be the event that sort of triggered a long, slow burn to

01:09:47.480 the fall of the Communist Party.

01:09:49.080 So here's a question for you. How much of exposure or presence do we have with the CIA

01:09:58.120 in China right now? Do we have a big presence there or not really?

01:10:02.360 I don't know. But I think the answer to your question is not really. About 18 months ago or so,

01:10:09.640 China executed somewhere between 20 and 30 CIA agents. I mean, first of all, you had a number of

01:10:17.000 presidents before Trump who just put China very low in the priority. So the CIA just didn't have

01:10:23.160 that much in the way of resources in China to begin with. And then China goes in and just kills,

01:10:28.680 literally kills dozens of them. And so I don't think they've had a chance to rebuild.

01:10:33.400 Is that verified, by the way? Is that verified of killing dozens?

01:10:36.840 It's been widely reported in Wall Street Journal and the rest of it.

01:10:40.920 So how did we retaliate towards that?

01:10:43.080 No known retaliation.

01:10:46.200 Why?

01:10:47.240 Don't ask me. I mean, if I were president, there would have certainly been costs imposed on China

01:10:58.920 for doing that. But China's occupied a special place in the American foreign policy establishment,

01:11:05.240 which is the reason why we're in such trouble as we are. But I don't think the CIA, to answer your

01:11:11.160 question, I don't think the CIA has had the opportunity to rebuild in China. And you've got

01:11:16.520 to remember that China's been tossing out Western journalists who aren't CIA, but that also reduces

01:11:22.840 our ability to look into the country. I mean,

01:11:25.960 I'm sorry, go ahead.

01:11:28.360 So, you know, our visibility of China right now is not very good, which should lead us to believe

01:11:36.200 that if we can't understand what's going there, then why should we have robust relations with them?

01:11:41.640 Here's where I was going with this. If we have the right CIA agents there, by the way, we need to

01:11:46.920 really invest in a major, major, major, I would be recruiting agents left and right to send them

01:11:55.480 there. And I would do it in the most strategic way and start them early and have them go through

01:11:59.880 the educational system, et cetera, et cetera. I mean, you have to be doing that right in a way to

01:12:03.320 protect yourself long term. And I would do it in a way to get them involved in the executive side,

01:12:07.640 to have a lot of involvement there. But that's a complete different side long term wise.

01:12:10.920 Here's the question I'm asking about the CIA. Technology is more advanced today than it's

01:12:17.640 ever been before, right? If these folks, say the millennials, the Gen Xers, because that's

01:12:23.800 really the best foot soldiers you're going to have to update us on what's going on. Just like today,

01:12:28.920 if you do something nowadays, it's the millennials and the Gen Xers and the founder generation.

01:12:33.000 They're the ones that are telling us what's going on with the camera being on and, you know,

01:12:35.960 TikTok and videos, everything, right? If technology is as advanced as it is, and we have some presence

01:12:43.160 there with CIA, how hard would it be for us to bring a open VPN line and spread that amongst

01:12:51.320 everybody there to have Facebook, YouTube, Twitter? I mean, we have some of the most brilliant minds in

01:12:57.000 the world. You mean to tell me we cannot get internet there and fight it so quickly? So if they're doing

01:13:02.200 what they're doing, we're going to put millions of cameras to work by having this younger generation

01:13:07.320 who will revolt. You know, the older folks will not revolt because they have more to lose. The

01:13:10.760 younger generation, they've always been the ones that have been able to create the revolution,

01:13:14.680 whether it was in Iran, whether it was any kind of a movement you look at, it's always the younger

01:13:18.680 generation that's willing. Even if you look at Ron Paul or Bernie Sanders, their biggest momentum

01:13:23.960 creators were who? Younger generation. If we can get technology there with the right VPN,

01:13:30.920 whatever measures it takes to start kind of seeing what's going on, I think that's going to piss them

01:13:35.720 off. The government's going to piss them off. Then it's going to get the people who are skeptical,

01:13:40.280 whether the government's doing the right thing or not of China, then maybe that leads to the people

01:13:44.120 saying, we're just sick and tired of it. We got to make a change here. And that's the only way I feel

01:13:48.840 safer long term of doing business with China. That's the only way I would feel safer.

01:13:55.160 Yes. And there are NGOs that have talked about developing the means, the technical means of

01:14:03.240 jumping over what's called the Great Firewall. And so there is some effort there. Could use a lot more

01:14:09.080 push from the federal government. You know, there's something else that can be done, and that is

01:14:13.320 shortwave radio, which is what we used against the Soviet Union.

01:14:16.440 China can, because it's got the Great Firewall, can block the internet, but they can't block shortwave

01:14:24.120 radio as a practical matter. So there's a number of things that we need to do to be able to get

01:14:29.800 through to the Chinese people. Because ultimately, the Chinese people are our greatest ally, because

01:14:35.400 we've got a common interest. We've got one group that is oppressing them and causing death in our

01:14:43.480 country. And that's the Communist Party of China. So we should be looking to our friends, the Chinese

01:14:47.880 people.

01:14:48.920 Look, when we lived in Iran, we had two channels, right? And the rich people had a satellite,

01:14:55.400 and you would always, oh my gosh, you have satellite, and look at this, you can go watch movies, and

01:14:59.480 there's kissing, and there's this. It was like, oh, rich people can watch crazy movies, you know, poor

01:15:03.640 people cannot, you know. And you go to your friend's house who had satellites, and they lived in this

01:15:09.800 city called Gandhi. There was a city in Iran called Gandhi, which is pretty interesting.

01:15:13.560 That was a rich people's city. And we had a friend that lived there, we'd go in there and say, look

01:15:17.320 at us, we have a satellite, shh, don't tell anybody, because we could get in trouble. I think, I think

01:15:22.280 that's, you know, I think that's what China needs. Whatever we did with China, whatever we did with

01:15:26.680 Russia, I think the people need that, because we need to get more documentation on what's going on.

01:15:31.080 We're getting a glimpse of it right now, but not at the measures that we need

01:15:33.960 to get that back to what it needs to be. So final exercise here with us, but before I go into this

01:15:41.160 final exercise, is there, what do you see with the foreseeable future? How long is this thing going to

01:15:47.000 last? When do you see us going back to work? And is there any positive outlook you have of how things

01:15:53.960 are going to turn out the next three, six, nine, 12 months? Well, I sort of think the virus does burn

01:16:00.600 out during the summer. You know, as we're talking about, it might not, I mean, this is a bug that

01:16:06.600 likes hot weather. So who knows what it's going to do? You know, I think that we can see a couple

01:16:11.640 things that are occurring in China, because they're obviously ahead of us. So for instance, in Wuhan,

01:16:19.160 where this thing started, that's sort of the bug has burned itself out. And so Wuhan is just slowly

01:16:25.640 getting back to normal. And you know, they just opened up the barricade, so people in Wuhan can

01:16:31.640 actually travel to other parts of China, if they've got a green code, you know, they get green, yellow,

01:16:37.640 red, depending on their health. So if they got a green code, they can actually leave. So it's sort of

01:16:43.640 getting there. But the problem for China right now is that the bug has, I think, jumped to cities on the

01:16:51.560 east. So for instance, in Shanghai, at the end of last month, they started closing down tourist venues

01:16:59.720 that had just been opened a few days before. So there's a real indication that they have got a

01:17:06.280 problem there. And you can start to see it in their statistics, which they're issuing on daily

01:17:11.400 infections. They seem that daily infections, both all of them, asymptomatic and symptomatic,

01:17:19.960 are going up. So I think that there's a second wave that's hitting. The second and third wave

01:17:25.000 have been hitting peripheral areas to China, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea. So

01:17:31.320 it's probably going to hit China as well. It's probably well developed there. So China is sort of

01:17:37.160 where the rest of the world is going, which means for us, it, you know, New York, the bug will burn

01:17:43.160 itself out. And coronavirus will jump to other cities like it's doing. So it'll burn itself out

01:17:50.920 in those other places as well. You know, I think that maybe by the middle of June, we'll be through

01:17:55.640 this. But God help us next fall. That was your attempt at giving a motivational speech, which

01:18:03.640 maybe you need to listen to a little bit more Tony Robbins to pick up some abilities on how he does it.

01:18:08.680 I don't know. Maybe you need to kind of work on that. So by the way, just something for you to be

01:18:12.520 thinking. Don't let your wife discourage you from thinking about the comedy side, because

01:18:16.200 let the jokes come out. Don't let her convince you not to let the jokes come out. Okay.

01:18:20.760 Last part here. I'll give you some names and give me the first word that you think about. Whatever

01:18:26.280 word that you think about, give me the first word. We call this a speed round. Bill Gates.

01:18:29.880 Bill Gates. Oh, too much money.

01:18:31.720 Elon Musk. Too much idiocy. Idiocy?

01:18:39.080 I mean, the early Elon Musk, you know, great man going into space, Tesla. I think that's terrific.

01:18:51.000 The problem, though, is that I think fame has gone to his head. And, you know, it was typified what we

01:18:57.720 saw two, three months ago with that dance he did in China. I mean, that just shows you that I think

01:19:03.320 he's gone too far. I don't think he's going to make money in China with electric cars for a number

01:19:10.200 of reasons. I think that this could be where he really gets a real lesson. You know, it's like

01:19:14.920 sort of fame's gone to his head.

01:19:16.280 So you were really frustrated with his dance moves. So if he improved his dance moves, would you

01:19:24.200 not call him an idiot? Or would you change your opinion?

01:19:26.840 Well, no. It's still going to his head.

01:19:29.320 Okay. Got it. Maybe we need to recommend some nice choreographers to hire. He can afford it. So

01:19:35.000 Tedros Adhanem.

01:19:38.680 Yeah. I think that he needs to resign. If he doesn't resign, we need to defund the WHO.

01:19:45.080 What he did was despicable. So I don't have a good word to say about him. And I have,

01:19:51.560 I sometimes am not able to think of, I don't think they're, you know, he leaves me speechless.

01:20:00.040 So is it fair to say you don't have a picture on that bookshelf of yours behind you?

01:20:04.520 Of Tedros?

01:20:05.400 Yeah. You're not going to have it.

01:20:06.680 Okay, pretty high.

01:20:07.400 This is my daughter, my wife, my in-laws, a couple of me, you know,

01:20:11.720 a friend from college. No Tedros.

01:20:15.320 No Tedros. Well, it is what it is. Margaret Chan.

01:20:19.640 Ineffective.

01:20:20.920 Ineffective. Xi Jinping.

01:20:23.880 Criminal.

01:20:24.360 Monster.

01:20:26.440 Monster.

01:20:26.840 Anthony Fauci.

01:20:27.240 Monster.

01:20:27.880 Monster.

01:20:28.920 Anthony Fauci.

01:20:31.000 A hero.

01:20:32.760 Hero. Moon Jae-in.

01:20:35.800 Another criminal. Moon Jae-in wants to, he wants South Korea to be merged into North Korea,

01:20:44.920 and probably on North Korea's terms. So he wants to end democracy in South Korea.

01:20:53.160 I mean, he, Moon Jae-in is one of my favorite topics actually. So it's hard to come up with just

01:20:59.480 one word for him. But I think that he's dangerous. He's no friend to the US. He would love to be a

01:21:07.320 totalitarian. He is moving China and moving South Korea away from a liberal democracy back to an

01:21:14.200 authoritarian state. So what nice things can you say about him?

01:21:20.920 Ren Zhengfi.

01:21:26.920 Liar.

01:21:27.400 I mean, he keeps on saying, oh, you know, Huawei would never spy for the Communist Party. Well,

01:21:36.360 I got news for you. The 2017 National Intelligence Law of China requires every Chinese national,

01:21:43.080 every Chinese entity to spy if demanded. And besides in the Communist Party's top-down system,

01:21:48.440 you can't resist a demand from the Communist Party. Ren himself is a member of the party.

01:21:53.480 So, you know, I put him into the basket of dangerous individuals.

01:21:59.640 Last but not least, Li Wenliang.

01:22:03.080 Hero.

01:22:05.000 Clearly hero. And he sacrificed his life to try, you know, he went to the, you know, he went to everyone

01:22:11.720 talking about the disease. He did that at great personal risk to himself. Eventually, as a doctor,

01:22:17.880 he lost his life treating coronavirus patients. I mean, it's just sort of brings tears.

01:22:24.200 Well, sir, this has been a very, very insightful and hopefully the viewers were able to look at

01:22:30.760 some of these different conspiracies that's being tossed around and getting millions of views and

01:22:34.280 getting people's attention. And quite frankly, it's a put on a lot of fear in people. I got a call the

01:22:38.360 other day at 1130 at night. One of my friends, who's a very successful businessman, called me and

01:22:43.880 him and his wife were on the phone. I had to have an hour and a half conversation with this person

01:22:47.800 because they were buying into some of these conspiracy theories that really were messing

01:22:52.040 with their heads. And it's not just getting naive people. It's getting everybody to start kind of

01:22:57.160 questioning some of this stuff because the way it's being sold, it's very convincing.

01:23:01.640 Any final thoughts with you before we wrap up the interview?

01:23:04.120 You know, our society, let me just repeat something that I said that we're really at risk. We are going

01:23:11.800 to have to band together because, you know, as Ronald Reagan said, freedom is only one generation away

01:23:18.680 from extinction. Well, now it could be a couple of years away from extinction. So we've really got to

01:23:24.840 get together and, as Americans, defend our society and our way of life.

01:23:29.960 Gordon, thank you for being a guest.

01:23:31.480 Thank you so much, Patrick. I really appreciate the opportunity.

01:23:33.800 Absolutely. Thank you. Bye-bye.

01:23:35.800 Thanks everybody for listening. And by the way, if you haven't already subscribed to Valuetainment on

01:23:39.640 iTunes, please do so. Give us a five-star, write a review if you haven't already. And if you have any

01:23:45.240 questions for me that you may have, you can always find me on Snapchat, Instagram, Facebook, or YouTube.

01:23:50.520 Just search my name, Patrick David. And I actually do respond back when you snap me or send me a message

01:23:56.440 on Instagram. With that being said, have a great day today. Take care, everybody. Bye-bye.

Valuetainment - May 13, 2020

Episode 466： Collapse of China Explained By Chinese American Lawyer

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