Valuetainment - Episode 502： Ex Mob Boss Turned Informant Loses His Cool

00:00:00.000 30 seconds.

00:00:01.280 Did you ever think you would make it?

00:00:04.240 I feel I'm so close I could take sweet victory.

00:00:07.640 I know this life meant for me.

00:00:10.760 Yeah, why would you bet on Goliath when we got Bet David?

00:00:14.600 Valuetainment, giving value is contagious.

00:00:16.440 This world of entrepreneurs, we get no value to haters.

00:00:19.160 Now they run, homie, look what I've become.

00:00:21.400 I'm the one.

00:00:22.500 I'm Patrick Bedeby, host of Valuetainment.

00:00:24.020 If you enjoy my mob interviews, this one's going to be very, very different

00:00:27.260 because I'm sitting down with Ralph Natale, who's an ex-mob boss

00:00:30.520 from the Philadelphia crime family, working with Joey Merlino.

00:00:33.620 He talked about a lot of this, Skinny Razor, many, many different stories,

00:00:36.620 and not somebody who's a fan of Leonetti, not somebody who's a fan of Nicky Scarfo.

00:00:40.280 So if you enjoy my mob interviews, you're going to love this one.

00:00:44.280 My guest today, Ralph Natale.

00:00:45.580 Ralph, thank you so much for being a guest today on Valuetainment.

00:00:47.940 My pleasure.

00:00:48.760 Appreciate you for coming out.

00:00:50.340 You just ask the questions and I'll give you the best answers and truthful.

00:00:55.140 First question, why are you doing this?

00:00:57.260 Why do you want to tell this story?

00:00:58.920 Why?

00:00:59.380 Yeah.

00:01:00.500 Why not?

00:01:02.880 Why wouldn't I say everybody knows who I am and what I was?

00:01:07.620 I started in this business when I was 19 years old, really heavy.

00:01:13.640 I knew every man, every boss, and I worked for the men who were controlled by these men,

00:01:21.320 the culinary workers and the teamsters.

00:01:25.000 Jimmy Hopper was one of my best customers.

00:01:27.260 Jimmy Hopper was one of your best customers.

00:01:29.000 Every time he had a headache, I was the aspirin.

00:01:31.820 It was simple as that.

00:01:33.040 We got along.

00:01:34.080 I became very friendly with Jimmy.

00:01:36.360 I'm the last man that he came to see when he was trying to get the union back by a claim.

00:01:43.360 When he came into South Jersey, called a friend of his in the teamsters, said, would you call

00:01:48.300 that little guy and tell him I want to see him?

00:01:50.740 I'm at the rickshaw.

00:01:51.980 I'd like to talk to him.

00:01:53.020 I knew what it was.

00:01:54.580 I said, okay.

00:01:55.820 He called me.

00:01:56.760 And I went.

00:01:58.300 I went there.

00:01:59.920 I brought two friends with me.

00:02:01.540 I made them sit outside of me because I didn't trust nobody in those days.

00:02:06.780 And I was good friends with Jimmy.

00:02:09.200 So they sat in the lobby.

00:02:12.420 Ronnie Turchi and Mike Barone.

00:02:14.040 They're both gone.

00:02:14.860 They're under the dirt.

00:02:16.740 And I went in to see him.

00:02:18.620 I saw him talking with John Grayley.

00:02:20.720 He was the teamster.

00:02:22.080 He went over.

00:02:22.780 We hugged.

00:02:23.300 We always hugged.

00:02:24.060 Because we became friends besides me doing and taking away his headaches once in a while.

00:02:31.220 When somebody wanted to pull their teamster local out of his international,

00:02:37.340 and he was getting, and were making speeches and whatever, he called for me.

00:02:41.700 He sent word to the guys or whoever they were.

00:02:44.160 What do you mean by you were the aspirin to his headaches?

00:02:46.040 What did you do?

00:02:46.720 What did you do?

00:02:47.300 Well, let me explain it.

00:02:49.000 Please.

00:02:49.240 I went to see the certain gentleman who worked.

00:02:53.000 And I talked to him.

00:02:53.780 He said, no, we're pulling out this and that thing.

00:02:56.160 I said, do you know what you're, this is my, do you know what you're doing to yourself?

00:03:00.420 Do you do it to Jimmy and the rest of the team?

00:03:02.840 Yes, I do.

00:03:04.500 And you say, no, you're, you're still going to try to pull out?

00:03:09.020 You're going to make a mistake.

00:03:10.580 And that's all I said.

00:03:11.920 I'll see you.

00:03:12.680 And within months, nobody could find that guy.

00:03:15.620 He just disappeared.

00:03:17.060 Then they found him somewhere, laying down with two or three holes in his head.

00:03:21.440 And that, that local stood in the international.

00:03:26.360 That's how he built the international.

00:03:29.040 And they loved him because he treated him well.

00:03:32.020 But some men, their ego explodes their sense of propriety.

00:03:37.920 And that's how we became friends.

00:03:40.600 And he never called no one else when he had a headache.

00:03:44.220 That's why he came to see me in the rickshaw.

00:03:46.880 Wanted to sit down.

00:03:47.740 I said, no, let's stand up and talk in the corner.

00:03:49.600 It was by the bar.

00:03:50.740 It was after lunch.

00:03:51.860 It was quiet.

00:03:52.440 He said, Ralph, I'm going to take over the local again.

00:03:55.960 The union, the international.

00:03:58.520 By acclaim, he was strong.

00:04:00.300 Jimmy was a strong guy.

00:04:01.720 I said, Jimmy, why are you doing this?

00:04:03.560 You've got all the money in the world.

00:04:05.300 I know you have it.

00:04:06.540 You've got a great pension.

00:04:08.420 You've got a great family.

00:04:09.620 Josie was sleeping upstairs, his wife.

00:04:11.840 But what's wrong with you?

00:04:13.780 He said, Ralph, it's the only thing I know how to do.

00:04:16.360 I said to myself, he wasn't a womanizer, like most men.

00:04:22.880 He wasn't?

00:04:23.560 No, no, definitely not.

00:04:25.960 He wasn't a drunk.

00:04:28.140 And he wasn't a gambler.

00:04:29.660 Here's the things that men do when they have money and time.

00:04:33.280 He didn't do any of these.

00:04:34.620 And I'm telling him because I know.

00:04:38.200 I said, just go back and enjoy your life, Jimmy.

00:04:42.200 You did everything you had to do.

00:04:44.200 I love you.

00:04:44.760 Everybody loves you.

00:04:45.600 Ralph, I'm going to ask you to do something.

00:04:48.200 Please.

00:04:49.080 I know the state of Jersey and all the teams.

00:04:52.000 They love you and they fear you.

00:04:54.920 Please.

00:04:55.820 Get them.

00:04:56.600 When I go into the convention, they back me.

00:05:00.880 I said, Jim, I'm going to give you one answer.

00:05:02.840 First of all, a man can't serve two kings.

00:05:06.400 You know what I was almost born into.

00:05:09.600 He says, yes, I do.

00:05:10.940 I said, well, I'm going to have to go and see him.

00:05:13.120 And if that man washes his hands of you, I'll help you.

00:05:17.720 Because I didn't like the punks that were pulling out for him.

00:05:20.820 They promised him this.

00:05:21.860 They promised him that.

00:05:23.020 They gave him nothing.

00:05:23.940 But they gave him freedom.

00:05:25.640 And he's had his pension.

00:05:27.480 He had everything.

00:05:28.140 I said, okay, I'll give you a call and I'll let you know.

00:05:32.380 Please, Ralph, I'm going to find out shortly.

00:05:35.460 He shook his hand and I've seen my two friends.

00:05:37.420 Okay, somebody.

00:05:38.380 Everything's okay.

00:05:39.840 I went to see Angelo Bruno at his home in South Philadelphia, where he was killed right

00:05:44.620 in front of there.

00:05:45.320 But that's another story.

00:05:46.740 Went in.

00:05:47.800 His wife answered her, Sue.

00:05:49.180 I knocked him quietly.

00:05:51.040 He said, oh, Ralph, what are you doing here?

00:05:54.060 I said, when the king calls, his people have to come see him.

00:05:58.040 Ralph, come on in.

00:05:59.400 He said, I know what you got.

00:06:00.760 I know that other guy came into the city.

00:06:03.060 Look at him, like the FBI was.

00:06:06.260 And what do you want now?

00:06:08.220 I said, he asked me to help him to be Teamster boss again.

00:06:12.040 He said, Ralph, that ain't going to happen.

00:06:14.700 Everything's been done.

00:06:16.160 Agreements paid.

00:06:17.260 Everything's done.

00:06:18.960 Tell him to go home and enjoy his life.

00:06:22.040 I said, I told him that already.

00:06:23.780 But he wants me to come and help him.

00:06:25.700 No.

00:06:26.680 Don't go near him.

00:06:27.900 Don't go by him.

00:06:28.940 After you, you told him already?

00:06:30.740 Well, he don't have to be told again.

00:06:33.780 Send a word with someone else.

00:06:35.640 You stay away from him.

00:06:37.680 I said, but just stay away from him.

00:06:40.520 I'm telling you.

00:06:41.440 What's wrong, Ang?

00:06:42.580 Ang, this guy did everything for you, for everybody.

00:06:45.820 Because that's how I was with Ang.

00:06:47.400 Because that was Ang's last moment of everything.

00:06:50.940 He said, the man upstate Jersey, you know who I mean.

00:06:55.560 The man that you went one day and you see he was up on the roof with the pigeons.

00:06:59.960 Flying pigeons.

00:07:02.560 Oh, you want me to go see him?

00:07:06.660 No.

00:07:07.440 They're going to do it.

00:07:08.840 And they'll take care of this business.

00:07:11.140 My God.

00:07:12.580 I said, is that your last?

00:07:14.960 He said, that's my last time.

00:07:16.280 Okay, good.

00:07:17.560 I'll see you later.

00:07:18.540 I love you.

00:07:19.160 I'll kiss him on the cheek.

00:07:20.560 And boom, I left.

00:07:22.360 I knew he was going to be dead within or missing.

00:07:25.620 I didn't know what they were.

00:07:27.120 In two or three weeks.

00:07:29.360 And he was.

00:07:30.260 In two or three weeks.

00:07:31.240 Because he called this guy, that guy.

00:07:37.780 He made an agreement with some men that he used to deal with in a mafia family from New York.

00:07:47.300 And when he made this agreement, it was supposed to be binding on either one.

00:07:52.000 They said, we'll send somebody to see and talk to you.

00:07:55.460 And, you know, they'll send somebody.

00:07:57.320 They send three people.

00:07:59.460 The Andretta brothers and Budrilo.

00:08:03.620 His last name.

00:08:04.560 I'm pronouncing it a thing.

00:08:07.040 The three of them went to see him.

00:08:09.100 And he was never sore again.

00:08:10.920 Never.

00:08:11.660 No fine, no nothing.

00:08:12.980 And that was the end of Jimmy Hopper.

00:08:15.540 Because he didn't want to live nice with his family.

00:08:18.760 He wanted to go out and still have that.

00:08:20.840 Here I am.

00:08:21.960 In Philadelphia, Eric Sean, I think he's the broadcaster, at Fox News, asked to see me.

00:08:29.400 I went up to see him.

00:08:31.040 I said, what's up?

00:08:33.360 He said, talking about everything.

00:08:36.280 He said, a friend of yours.

00:08:39.580 Who's the friend?

00:08:40.600 He said, Frank Sheeran.

00:08:41.920 Frank Sheeran.

00:08:42.400 Yes, what did he want from you?

00:08:45.020 He told me he shot and killed Jimmy Hopper.

00:08:49.040 What?

00:08:49.780 In fact, I saw it filmed.

00:08:53.080 I said, not in a million years since you're allowed to get near him.

00:08:56.740 But he told me, I'm believing it.

00:08:58.420 I told the FBI, they're going to get together.

00:09:00.880 I'm going to investigate it.

00:09:02.700 You do it because you've always been nice with people.

00:09:05.220 You do what you got to do.

00:09:07.500 He's a liar.

00:09:08.720 He wants to beat somebody before he dies because he's sick.

00:09:11.460 I think he's got cancer.

00:09:12.640 You're saying that.

00:09:13.860 Yeah.

00:09:14.460 He said, well, okay, good.

00:09:16.720 Lo and behold, he investigated where they found the blood on the floor.

00:09:21.400 Then when the FBI sent the forensic people in, they tested it.

00:09:29.260 It wasn't Jimmy Hopper's blood.

00:09:31.340 He said he shot him twice.

00:09:32.800 He said, and then when I went up to see him, I went up to see Eric again.

00:09:38.120 I said, what did I tell you?

00:09:40.540 He wouldn't talk to him.

00:09:43.140 What's wrong with you?

00:09:44.220 He said, my mind is, he's a liar.

00:09:47.460 I said, well, I told you that, but you wanted to be, you did.

00:09:52.460 He said, I'm sorry.

00:09:53.900 I should have listened to you.

00:09:55.360 That's a Jimmy Hopper story.

00:09:56.940 And they'll never find him unless it's somebody, one of those three.

00:10:03.260 Now, Tommy, Bergiulio, the shooter, who she got in the car?

00:10:08.000 He shot him.

00:10:09.420 And the two Indretti brothers.

00:10:11.400 But Bergiulio's not around because he got killed a couple months after that

00:10:16.240 because he was walking around in New York City.

00:10:19.500 I killed the top guy.

00:10:21.420 I should be getting the top.

00:10:22.520 I should be made a captain.

00:10:24.100 I should be this and that.

00:10:25.380 He was a made man with the union because I heard he was doing that.

00:10:31.240 He's putting a spotlight on him.

00:10:34.000 He was killed within that week if I heard that.

00:10:37.720 He came out of the restaurant and literally sectioned.

00:10:40.680 Boom, boom, boom.

00:10:41.880 He was done.

00:10:43.120 No more talking.

00:10:44.920 The Indretti brothers, one stood in New York and one had time to go.

00:10:51.520 They were doing little odds in it.

00:10:53.180 They were doing things and making money illegally but not too much.

00:10:58.500 They skirted.

00:10:59.620 When I got into Lewisburg, a year later or so-so, I don't knock down dates.

00:11:06.440 Who's there?

00:11:07.040 Tommy Andretti.

00:11:08.740 He's in.

00:11:09.800 What the hell was in the block?

00:11:12.680 I think it was A, B, C, D block.

00:11:16.520 I said, Tommy A.

00:11:18.300 You know what he hugged me?

00:11:19.520 This, that.

00:11:20.420 Because he knew what I was and he knew what I would do.

00:11:23.800 Everybody knew.

00:11:24.920 I said, good.

00:11:25.760 I never, how's everything?

00:11:27.620 He said, no, things were getting too hot around there.

00:11:30.160 They picked me up on something.

00:11:32.240 They gave me 10 years and this and that.

00:11:34.300 And I looked at him, I said, my God, look at this.

00:11:38.220 Look what happened to Jimmy.

00:11:40.580 And he was part of it.

00:11:43.160 And when I went to, and Eric, I talked to him after that.

00:11:47.320 He said, I'm so glad you told me that.

00:11:49.580 I was making a fool of him myself.

00:11:51.600 Well, I didn't want you to, I just told you.

00:11:54.100 He did not do it.

00:11:55.360 He's a liar.

00:11:56.840 So that's, that's Dorby with Jimmy Hopper.

00:12:00.620 Did you ever meet Frank?

00:12:01.820 Like, did you know who he was?

00:12:02.740 I knew him since he used to come in to the bar that,

00:12:06.600 and I'm going to bring another name up to you.

00:12:09.300 Skinny Razor.

00:12:10.240 Did you ever hear that name?

00:12:11.040 Of course.

00:12:11.540 Yeah, he's the boss's mentor.

00:12:13.160 From the guys that, what's that?

00:12:15.040 He's the boss's mentor.

00:12:16.340 He was, he was a guy that.

00:12:18.700 He's my mentor.

00:12:19.880 He was yours.

00:12:20.440 He was Scarfo's.

00:12:21.520 He was.

00:12:22.140 Scarfo, no, he hated Scarfo.

00:12:24.220 Please don't.

00:12:25.000 And I know you were told this,

00:12:27.820 the people you had in here are making a story up.

00:12:31.820 That's why I'm here.

00:12:32.400 Phil Leonetti makes up stories?

00:12:33.720 Who?

00:12:34.020 Phil Leonetti.

00:12:34.840 Yes.

00:12:35.380 He makes up stories.

00:12:36.160 Yes.

00:12:37.560 He's not the killer he's supposed to be.

00:12:39.660 Phil Leonetti makes up stories.

00:12:41.120 Yes.

00:12:42.460 I mean, it's been, I wouldn't say that to you

00:12:44.540 without knowing that Skinny Razor was known as a guy that.

00:12:47.800 Skinny Razor was the most feared man in the United States.

00:12:50.760 Oh, one of the most feared men.

00:12:51.260 Oh, absolutely.

00:12:51.400 In the United States.

00:12:52.500 Oh, absolutely.

00:12:53.100 And he wouldn't talk to them people.

00:12:55.660 He wouldn't talk to Phil Leonetti or Nicky Scarfo.

00:12:59.280 He became, when he got 45 years, he became a witness.

00:13:03.280 The only time I became a witness was at the end when I took in,

00:13:08.920 you know, being, I, they made them all swear,

00:13:11.500 you got to take care of my family because I'm going to,

00:13:15.340 they, they needed help in the city.

00:13:17.580 They were trying, I was the one to put that group together.

00:13:20.720 Nobody else.

00:13:21.960 I said, well, you got to promise me one thing on our blood.

00:13:25.440 If something happens to me, whether I get killed or I go to jail,

00:13:30.580 you go and bring an envelope every Monday.

00:13:33.680 I mean, every month, excuse me, and bring it over to my wife.

00:13:37.700 She said, Joey, yeah, I remember all this.

00:13:40.500 Good.

00:13:41.460 You know what happened?

00:13:43.300 Not a dime.

00:13:45.580 Not a dime.

00:13:47.800 That's what they are.

00:13:49.160 That's why I'm here.

00:13:50.800 A little bit.

00:13:51.860 What's Joey got to do with Leonetti and Scarfo, though?

00:13:54.600 Joey said, Joey said, they were together as brothers one time.

00:13:59.600 Leonetti's not, Scarfo is a sick man.

00:14:04.040 He was born sick.

00:14:05.180 He's going to die sick.

00:14:06.920 And Leonetti, he wanted Leonetti to be, see,

00:14:10.720 you were getting, you got the story first and you believed it.

00:14:15.320 He wanted Leonetti to be honored and wrote about in the paper

00:14:19.840 like other people.

00:14:22.700 That's what he wanted.

00:14:24.320 He wanted him to be like, he wanted him to be like Salvi Testa.

00:14:29.060 Salvi Testa was the purest young killer.

00:14:32.280 But everybody says that.

00:14:33.720 So what you're saying right there is to challenge you a little bit.

00:14:37.120 But why would he challenge me?

00:14:38.720 Well, no, no, to challenge you on that a little bit.

00:14:41.040 Leonetti also believed Salvi Testa was a great guy.

00:14:43.400 Well, because he's telling you, you're listening to him.

00:14:45.800 Well, you're saying the same thing.

00:14:47.300 No, I'm not.

00:14:48.520 I said Salvi was.

00:14:50.100 Leonetti's a phony.

00:14:51.520 No, no, no.

00:14:52.420 Leonetti said Salvi's also a great guy.

00:14:54.980 Oh, and you believe that?

00:14:57.240 He hated him.

00:14:58.580 He wanted to kill him.

00:15:00.160 He was told to kill him when he had a chance.

00:15:02.480 Because he reported to Scarfo.

00:15:04.860 Mickey Scarfo hated all them kids from downtown.

00:15:07.780 Of course, everyone knows that.

00:15:09.080 Well, what do you say?

00:15:09.860 Everyone, you're telling me something about that.

00:15:11.520 No, no, everyone knows that.

00:15:13.040 And listen, when Scarfo passed away three years ago, not a lot of people showed up to his funeral.

00:15:20.340 You know, there was not a lot of people.

00:15:21.900 Do I know?

00:15:22.280 He was hated.

00:15:23.400 He hated me.

00:15:24.940 Yeah.

00:15:25.360 He would curse God.

00:15:27.520 Because I asked Angelo Bruno many years before that, I'm going to go kill Mickey.

00:15:32.800 He's going to cause us problems with Atlantic City.

00:15:35.240 You said that to Angelo Bruno.

00:15:36.660 They're going to kill Mickey.

00:15:37.820 I'm not going to repeat that.

00:15:39.620 Why should I repeat it?

00:15:40.500 You didn't hear me?

00:15:41.680 I said it.

00:15:43.100 And you know what he said to me?

00:15:45.300 Don't you dare.

00:15:46.200 He's, as his uncles came over, they were on the boat with me.

00:15:49.960 The war that we had with the Americanized gangsters.

00:15:53.900 Because when they came off the boat, they called them Zips.

00:15:57.000 And they start biting at this, the numbers, everything.

00:16:01.320 Every little gambling house.

00:16:03.340 That's what happened.

00:16:05.140 Nicky Scarple was scum.

00:16:07.700 He did everything wrong.

00:16:09.700 You see what he did?

00:16:11.020 How he conducted himself.

00:16:13.200 He hated him.

00:16:15.200 He hated Salvi Chester.

00:16:16.800 He hated Nicky.

00:16:17.780 He hated when his father became boss.

00:16:21.660 He hated it.

00:16:22.800 But he did what he had to do.

00:16:26.520 Nicky Scarple, I wouldn't treat him if I turned my back.

00:16:30.600 That's what he was.

00:16:31.480 You wouldn't what?

00:16:32.360 I couldn't hear you.

00:16:32.900 I wouldn't treat him if I turned my back on him.

00:16:35.280 Wow.

00:16:35.480 And did you see what Leonetti told when he went and gave whatever he did?

00:16:44.960 Testimony.

00:16:45.800 Testimony.

00:16:46.940 He said, and my uncle told me to build the wall behind his kitchen and then the yard.

00:16:55.580 And then there was an alleyway.

00:16:57.580 He wanted me to build a wall eight foot tall.

00:17:01.880 It was 10 to the blocks.

00:17:02.960 Why do you want me to build this wall?

00:17:04.940 He said, because Ralphie asked Ange to kill me, and Ange turned him down.

00:17:12.520 But he ain't going to listen to Ange because he'll come up and kill me if it's easy.

00:17:19.240 And that's proof.

00:17:20.480 He said it.

00:17:22.460 You're a man that told you this.

00:17:26.180 Leonetti never did nothing.

00:17:28.540 He said he killed 20.

00:17:29.780 He killed in his brain.

00:17:33.440 And he listened.

00:17:34.120 If you listen to him, fine.

00:17:35.940 It's up to you.

00:17:37.280 Nobody's like me.

00:17:39.880 Nobody.

00:17:41.500 And I'm not telling you to believe it.

00:17:43.640 I killed more people than cancer for Angelo Bruno, for Joe Batters in Chicago, for the head of the teamsters, head of the company.

00:17:52.500 Whenever they needed me, I was there.

00:17:55.020 Everybody in Chicago belonged to Joe Batters.

00:17:58.720 I was in prison already in Lewisburg.

00:18:01.520 I had a visit in Lewisburg with my wife and some other girlfriends of hers whose husbands were in there.

00:18:07.480 They drove up from South Jersey.

00:18:09.700 Two cops that were watching us.

00:18:12.080 Listen, he said, Ralph, when you're done, go see the captain.

00:18:17.200 He wants to see you.

00:18:18.420 I said, for what?

00:18:19.340 Who is it?

00:18:19.740 He said, he's got some people there.

00:18:23.420 Some people.

00:18:24.740 I went down.

00:18:25.800 I walked in.

00:18:26.520 The captain was there.

00:18:27.460 There's six, seven suits there.

00:18:30.760 FBI.

00:18:31.280 I looked at them.

00:18:34.720 He said, he's a gentleman from the FBI.

00:18:37.180 They want to speak to you.

00:18:39.900 And I think you should listen to them.

00:18:42.800 I said, okay.

00:18:44.300 I said, now, what do you fellas want?

00:18:46.360 He said, we were told to offer you complete freedom.

00:18:51.080 I just started the 27-year sentence.

00:18:55.380 The three years I had, almost 20, something like that.

00:18:58.120 We'll give you a certain amount of money to live.

00:19:00.680 You have no body, body, no law, no method.

00:19:05.540 We want the information on Angelo Bruno, on Tony Arcado.

00:19:11.800 I looked at them.

00:19:12.560 I said, you got the wrong guy.

00:19:15.460 What, you're just starting.

00:19:17.020 You're going to have to do this.

00:19:18.180 You got the wrong man.

00:19:19.720 They walked out.

00:19:20.820 And I went there, and that's what I said to them.

00:19:23.140 You see, it's on film.

00:19:25.180 I never told anybody I killed anybody when doing Tommy Leonetti.

00:19:30.680 Leonetti, excuse me, he'll run.

00:19:32.420 As old as I am, he'll run down the street.

00:19:34.960 And that's the story about them.

00:19:36.900 So you were getting ready to tell a story about Skinny Razor.

00:19:40.220 John B.

00:19:40.580 Skinny Razor was your mentor.

00:19:42.340 Was the most feared man in the United States.

00:19:45.000 What made him fear?

00:19:45.700 He was 19 years old.

00:19:47.980 Al Capone was, they were having that war between the Irish and the, and Al Capone and his men

00:19:54.660 and whatever.

00:19:55.040 He came to Philadelphia and made it, they made arrangements.

00:20:00.720 So the detective, see, showed him, find a gun on him.

00:20:05.460 And they'll give him one year.

00:20:06.940 He wanted to get away for a year.

00:20:08.160 Too many guys were getting killed back and forth.

00:20:10.540 He was with Al Silverberg.

00:20:13.040 Al Silverberg once started with Murder Incorporated, was proficient at killing.

00:20:17.700 Al Silverberg, Al Capone, and his lawyer.

00:20:22.340 They were talking.

00:20:23.120 He said, is this the young man you told me about?

00:20:26.160 Skinny told me.

00:20:27.160 Skinny told me this word for word.

00:20:29.600 He said, I was so poor.

00:20:31.800 My pants were thin from washing him, from doing this.

00:20:35.500 I was freezing that day.

00:20:37.600 And he said, I'm Al Capone.

00:20:40.620 I said, yes, Mr. Silverberg.

00:20:43.060 He said, here's a piece of paper.

00:20:46.280 He told me what he thinks of you.

00:20:48.900 That you will do anything to better yourself.

00:20:52.700 Yes, I would.

00:20:53.680 Here's a name.

00:20:54.280 There's eight names on here.

00:20:55.840 I'm going to go away for a year.

00:20:58.400 And when I come home, I don't want to see or hear or have any evidence that they were ever alive.

00:21:04.900 I'm leaving it up to you.

00:21:06.680 And this man told me, Al Silverberg stood for you.

00:21:10.880 Al Silverberg was some guy.

00:21:13.220 Before he went away, he got caught in a murder in the central part of the country with another man, Jeff Newman.

00:21:21.500 They were with the Jew mom.

00:21:23.180 He took the paper.

00:21:24.240 Every month, they said, he said, I will tell you, you will be sent word where to go when you go.

00:21:33.620 And you'll live somewhere right outside in the suburbs.

00:21:37.800 They'll give you a little car.

00:21:39.980 And if you are what Al Silverberg says you are, you're going to be made the rest of your life.

00:21:46.880 And that's what happened.

00:21:49.580 And he told Ange well after that, when he came home from Chicago and all.

00:21:56.720 He said, Ange, I'm going to go see my friend down in Florida.

00:21:59.880 He had a guy that owned a nice little hotel.

00:22:02.340 Not a big, but a nice little one.

00:22:04.240 This is what I told Ralphie.

00:22:05.700 If Ange needs anything, he'll call you.

00:22:10.200 I told him you're the only one he can trust in this city.

00:22:13.920 And I know what you do, because I went with him on a couple things.

00:22:20.400 And he loved it.

00:22:21.180 He said, Son of a bitch, you know what you're doing.

00:22:24.300 He went to Chicago.

00:22:25.280 He cleaned them right up.

00:22:26.860 Cleans everybody.

00:22:28.380 The war stopped.

00:22:29.560 Stop.

00:22:30.740 You want to talk about it.

00:22:31.720 Go ask Leonetti and Mickey Scarpo and all them crumbs.

00:22:35.140 They know nothing.

00:22:36.840 They were told nothing.

00:22:38.320 And they know nothing.

00:22:40.520 But I seen it.

00:22:41.960 It comes from my mouth.

00:22:42.880 I seen, I heard.

00:22:43.920 And I was there on a couple things with him.

00:22:48.200 He took me.

00:22:48.920 He saw something in me.

00:22:50.620 And I thanked him.

00:22:52.000 And we were friends.

00:22:53.900 When I, for my life.

00:22:57.460 And he stood for me.

00:22:59.440 And now Silverberg.

00:23:00.800 And he came in with an old girlfriend of his.

00:23:03.740 Piercing blue eyes.

00:23:05.620 Took my, Ralphie, I heard a lot about you.

00:23:09.480 I said, I heard volumes about you.

00:23:12.440 Mr. Silverberg.

00:23:14.780 No, no.

00:23:15.660 Al.

00:23:16.960 Because Skinny loves you.

00:23:18.940 I said, and I love him.

00:23:20.220 He said, take care of him.

00:23:21.960 I said, I will.

00:23:23.060 They're true stories.

00:23:25.200 They're things that happen.

00:23:26.520 And everybody knows it.

00:23:28.140 Very convincing.

00:23:28.840 Your method of storytelling is very convincing.

00:23:33.260 Well, I'm not a story man.

00:23:36.280 I can't tell a lie.

00:23:38.120 When I was a little boy, I found out liars are nothing.

00:23:43.680 And you always have a problem.

00:23:45.520 These guys, I'm going to be this.

00:23:47.000 Leonetti, this.

00:23:48.000 Leonetti was in Lewisburg.

00:23:49.400 I was in Lewisburg at the time.

00:23:51.700 And they're all down there.

00:23:53.160 The person's waiting to get the sentence.

00:23:56.320 Then they brought him back to the city.

00:23:57.920 He got 45 years.

00:24:00.140 Or 40 years.

00:24:01.360 He's sitting in his pants.

00:24:02.540 Excuse my language.

00:24:04.220 And he become a witness immediately.

00:24:07.040 Immediately.

00:24:07.520 Now, you tell me, they might please you.

00:24:14.160 You might be pleased with them.

00:24:16.560 If I don't please you, you'll have to excuse my language in the way I do.

00:24:21.380 But I'm telling you the truth.

00:24:23.100 I can do anything I want.

00:24:25.000 When you tell them the truth, when you tell them a lie, you'll find out.

00:24:30.420 What else did you learn from Skinny Razor?

00:24:32.400 What were some of the things he taught you when he was mentoring you?

00:24:34.940 He taught me, number one, don't trust nobody.

00:24:38.580 I know what that meant.

00:24:40.120 He didn't mean everybody.

00:24:41.400 He meant nobody.

00:24:43.140 It would be, if you talked to him, your life would be different.

00:24:48.240 Your life.

00:24:49.120 Not to be a criminal, not to be a criminal.

00:24:50.620 We know that.

00:24:51.680 But your life would be different because you meet a man's man.

00:24:55.560 What he did in his lifetime is unreal.

00:24:59.320 Unreal.

00:25:00.480 Every boss in the country paid honor to him.

00:25:03.720 Money-wise and with respect.

00:25:06.840 Mickey Scarfo, Leonetti, they never come near his saloon because they were afraid.

00:25:12.740 Why?

00:25:13.080 Nobody was going.

00:25:13.900 They were afraid.

00:25:14.960 Even when he was a made man, Mickey.

00:25:17.240 He's the worst.

00:25:18.360 The worst.

00:25:19.360 And I would have.

00:25:20.200 If they didn't build that thing, then I went to jail.

00:25:23.060 I've been in jail a lot of years.

00:25:26.680 Leonetti, did he, he, he, I don't want to, he shit in his pants when he heard he got that sentence.

00:25:35.240 When they had me in Florida before the judge getting sentenced on something else, the prosecutors asked them to sentence me on the dangerous special offender.

00:25:49.100 Check all this stuff.

00:25:50.200 You could get 25 views on a single count of any counts that you have in your, oh my God, I saw these motherfuckers.

00:26:00.880 What they did.

00:26:02.960 They want to take me away from my family.

00:26:04.780 But I took myself away.

00:26:06.540 I blamed myself.

00:26:07.720 Nobody.

00:26:08.200 But all of a sudden, they called me, forget what they said.

00:26:14.020 Things I never, never was, I killed this, I was here, I did, what are they talking about?

00:26:20.600 And Jake Cosman was Angelo Bruno's best friend.

00:26:25.800 Two fine, fine men.

00:26:27.740 There are fine men around.

00:26:29.800 Like you, the people that work for you, who would never do anything like that.

00:26:34.360 But I was born into it.

00:26:36.420 I'm still a nice man, but I'm still me.

00:26:39.780 Anybody comes near my family, I'm going to go kill them.

00:26:44.060 Nobody comes near my family.

00:26:46.380 Thank God.

00:26:47.800 You're going to compare Nicky Scarfo, that crumb that he is, with me?

00:26:55.260 Leonetti was, he's shitting his pain.

00:26:58.280 He didn't do a day.

00:27:00.000 Ralph, how vicious were you?

00:27:01.600 I was, well, I'm going to, I'm going to, when I killed somebody for somebody, good reason.

00:27:09.560 I didn't go out and kill innocent people.

00:27:12.360 But when I did it, I did it like Skinny did it.

00:27:15.580 I shot him two or three times right in the face.

00:27:17.940 If I could, if not, I hit him back in the head, but in the face.

00:27:21.120 They die without a pain.

00:27:23.160 I made a joke of it.

00:27:26.980 I never hurt anybody.

00:27:28.760 Boom, boom, boom.

00:27:29.800 I used the hollow heads.

00:27:31.080 You know what hollow heads are?

00:27:33.520 That's all I used.

00:27:34.860 And then the Lord knew I did it.

00:27:36.800 That's Ralphie.

00:27:37.560 That's Ralphie.

00:27:38.480 Couldn't prove it.

00:27:39.620 Well, I had to plead to six murders on my last one.

00:27:43.980 So, they let me plead, and this and that there.

00:27:47.440 And I went home to my wife and family.

00:27:50.200 They visited me every day.

00:27:51.740 Not every day, but every time of visiting.

00:27:54.080 No matter where I was.

00:27:55.520 In Lewisburg.

00:27:57.160 In Atlanta Federal Prison.

00:27:59.980 I went to all the high ones, and they loved me.

00:28:02.620 Every time I walked in, I was welcomed.

00:28:05.020 See if Fulianetti ever walked in a prison and got welcomed, like I did.

00:28:15.260 You could write a script for that, all of this.

00:28:18.660 I could give you a script about Sal B. Tester.

00:28:21.800 He took vengeance.

00:28:23.140 Did you know that?

00:28:23.940 For the people that killed his father?

00:28:26.240 Phil.

00:28:27.120 No.

00:28:27.740 No, no.

00:28:28.360 No, no.

00:28:28.640 Sal B. Tester killed the people that killed his father.

00:28:36.260 Okay, you know that.

00:28:37.260 Yeah.

00:28:37.820 Well.

00:28:38.400 Sal B. was loved by everybody, though.

00:28:41.660 You had to love him.

00:28:42.880 You know why?

00:28:43.760 He was not a guy to pick on anybody that was weaker.

00:28:47.780 He wasn't a liar.

00:28:50.060 The last time I saw him, and I went to prison then, and all was, Ralphie.

00:28:57.120 It's Sal B.

00:28:58.160 He lived up the street, on Shunk Street, and on the corner lived Angelo Bruno's daughter

00:29:08.280 and son-in-law.

00:29:09.780 Come on, man.

00:29:10.360 Come on, man.

00:29:11.780 He said, Ralph, you've got to help me.

00:29:13.700 I said, what?

00:29:14.420 He said, my father wants to send me to Temple University.

00:29:17.500 I don't want to go to...

00:29:18.720 This is him.

00:29:20.040 I don't want to go to no university.

00:29:22.220 I can't be...

00:29:23.220 I want to be me.

00:29:24.880 I looked at him.

00:29:26.120 He meant it.

00:29:26.740 He was 17, 18 years old.

00:29:29.720 I said, Sal, he's looking out for me.

00:29:31.240 I know that.

00:29:32.520 And his mother had cancer at the time.

00:29:34.500 She was going to die.

00:29:35.800 He said, I can't do it to please my father that way.

00:29:38.120 I love my father, but I'm not going to go to no university.

00:29:41.460 I'm going to be what he was and what he's doing and what I'm going to do.

00:29:46.120 Shook hands.

00:29:46.780 He kissed me.

00:29:48.560 I never saw him because I went away to prison real fast.

00:29:51.420 He wrote the story on vengeance.

00:29:54.320 He was a man.

00:29:55.380 Mickey wanted Leonetti to be sort of like...

00:30:01.380 He couldn't carry his toothbrush.

00:30:04.640 And that's the truth.

00:30:05.800 I don't think Phil wanted the life, though.

00:30:07.560 What?

00:30:07.980 I don't think Phil wanted the life at all.

00:30:10.660 Well, wait a minute.

00:30:11.800 Wait a minute.

00:30:12.460 See what you said?

00:30:13.400 It's true.

00:30:14.300 No, wait a minute.

00:30:14.760 It's true.

00:30:15.620 But he did it because he was afraid of his uncle.

00:30:18.960 Sure.

00:30:19.320 Tell his uncle.

00:30:21.260 Tell your uncle.

00:30:22.400 Tell me then.

00:30:23.380 If you're a man, would you let your uncle or your father...

00:30:26.660 You got to go do this.

00:30:28.000 And you go do it.

00:30:29.360 You don't want to do it.

00:30:30.380 Then you're lying to yourself.

00:30:32.380 How much time did you spend with Mickey Scarful?

00:30:34.340 Me?

00:30:34.780 Yeah.

00:30:35.660 Not too much.

00:30:36.560 Not too much.

00:30:37.160 When we grew up, I hated him because he was evil.

00:30:43.500 How old were you when you met him first?

00:30:45.220 Well, he was...

00:30:47.220 I was going to junior high school, and he used to hang on the corner there.

00:30:51.980 That's when I...

00:30:52.680 You know, we knew when I...

00:30:54.000 But I saw in his eyes that he wasn't true.

00:31:00.220 He wanted to kill people.

00:31:01.720 What?

00:31:02.060 To be a killer?

00:31:03.460 He wasn't a killer.

00:31:04.480 He was a savage.

00:31:06.220 What's the difference?

00:31:07.640 The killers are killers.

00:31:08.960 That's his job.

00:31:10.400 That's the difference.

00:31:12.040 I had a job.

00:31:13.340 That was my job.

00:31:14.220 What's the difference?

00:31:14.900 I didn't know the difference between that.

00:31:18.220 If I did, I'd be a doctor today.

00:31:21.040 I'd be taking care of you when you come in.

00:31:23.740 You once said you wanted to kill your dad.

00:31:25.180 How was your relationship with your dad?

00:31:26.060 Oh, let me explain that.

00:31:27.920 Where we lived in South Polly was on Morton Street, and on 10th Morton was a Civil War

00:31:34.200 Cemetery, right opposite of George Washington School, Little Street, was a Civil War Cemetery.

00:31:40.840 Well, they decided to dig that up and make it a playground for everybody, a whole four

00:31:48.180 square blocks, city blocks.

00:31:50.760 We used to go as boys, 11, 12 years old, jump and play, and we were doing it one night,

00:31:57.280 and I forgot it was late.

00:31:59.720 It was like 9.30, quarter to 10.

00:32:01.820 My father said, you better get in at 9 o'clock.

00:32:04.540 So I come in there.

00:32:06.020 The door was locked.

00:32:07.380 Who's there behind the door?

00:32:09.020 My father.

00:32:09.760 And he did time in the Eastern State Pen for attempted murder, a long time ago.

00:32:18.040 I said, you son of a bitch.

00:32:19.920 I told you, come in at a certain time.

00:32:22.400 I'm looking at him.

00:32:23.100 He's a guy who didn't go to work, just hustled numbers, took bets, took everything.

00:32:28.360 And he's looking.

00:32:29.080 That's how fast my mind went.

00:32:31.520 And I walked in.

00:32:32.480 I started to walk.

00:32:33.520 You son of a bitch.

00:32:34.900 And he got his foot.

00:32:36.120 When you want to kick someone, you don't kick him.

00:32:44.160 But if you want to kick him, you kick him from the side.

00:32:48.480 That means you're nothing but a tramp.

00:32:50.640 I'm kicking you.

00:32:51.560 Well, he kicked me a shot here.

00:32:54.820 Knocked me forward.

00:32:56.260 Bounced off the entry wall.

00:32:59.380 I turned around, and I told him,

00:33:02.520 Don't you ever, ever touch me again, because I'll kill you.

00:33:08.200 He knew I would.

00:33:09.340 I didn't know I would.

00:33:10.960 But look what I said.

00:33:12.980 That's how I started.

00:33:14.180 I took my, I gave, I gave my soul to the devil.

00:33:21.160 How old were you?

00:33:22.820 Twelve.

00:33:23.600 When I knew what I would become, I, I, I knew it.

00:33:28.100 I couldn't help it.

00:33:29.540 And yet, I'm nice with my family, my wife, my children, other people's children.

00:33:36.760 I'm nice with men like you and workers.

00:33:39.500 I said, I am.

00:33:41.160 I never, never, never impose my will upon another man, unless that man is bad.

00:33:48.360 That's my life.

00:33:49.580 Did your relationship end up being good with your dad or no?

00:33:52.200 With your father?

00:33:53.000 No, it never, it never was good.

00:33:55.060 My mother, my mother wasn't too hot either.

00:33:58.880 She hated me sometimes.

00:34:00.460 Smacked me, hit me.

00:34:01.700 She said, you got to do the dishes today.

00:34:04.000 I did the dishes.

00:34:05.560 I helped her.

00:34:06.280 Let me ask you a question, you know, I'm big on looking at eyes, okay?

00:34:10.200 And I think you can read a lot of people through when you look at their eyes.

00:34:13.280 You're like me.

00:34:14.100 Yeah, when you look at someone's eyes, it tells a story.

00:34:16.520 When I look at your eyes, I see that there's rage.

00:34:20.900 You can tap into a rage side.

00:34:23.040 You just talked about your mom and dad.

00:34:24.640 You talked about the fact that your mom would say, go wash your dishes.

00:34:26.880 And then she would go.

00:34:27.300 My mother was not a real mother.

00:34:29.240 Right.

00:34:29.560 And then your father as well, the fact that you had your experience.

00:34:32.340 Would you say your rage came from your parents?

00:34:35.100 It could.

00:34:35.940 It could be.

00:34:37.140 They were terrible to me.

00:34:39.260 I was raised from, and she had another boy, my half a brother, younger brother, but he's

00:34:46.100 not me.

00:34:49.280 And I loved him.

00:34:50.760 I showed him how to hit a baseball, how to do, he's five years younger than me.

00:34:55.080 And he became something else.

00:34:59.580 So I left him alone.

00:35:01.360 He left me alone.

00:35:02.360 I called him a couple of times.

00:35:03.600 He never returned my call.

00:35:04.940 Your brother.

00:35:05.580 Yeah.

00:35:06.060 Interesting.

00:35:06.420 I can't overcome that.

00:35:09.440 So you met a lot of different people because you come from a couple of different generations.

00:35:13.960 Who were some of the folks you met when you were coming up?

00:35:17.220 Some of the big names.

00:35:18.760 You met Capone?

00:35:19.640 Did you meet some of those names?

00:35:20.880 They were the big names to me.

00:35:23.600 But this, you mean Frank Sinatra?

00:35:27.960 Frank Sinatra.

00:35:28.780 Of course I met him.

00:35:30.240 I met him when he was appearing.

00:35:32.960 I'm glad you asked about him.

00:35:34.680 At the Latin Casino in South Jersey.

00:35:38.760 He had to go and say hello to Angelo Bruno because Bruno wasn't going in there to see him

00:35:45.680 because he didn't like nightclubs and things and drinking and all.

00:35:50.720 So the chief calls me up.

00:35:52.900 I call him the chief.

00:35:54.500 What's up?

00:35:54.980 He said, you got to pick up Frank Sinatra.

00:35:59.540 Frank Sinatra.

00:36:00.220 Because he knew I didn't like him anyway.

00:36:02.100 Because Frank Sinatra's a bully.

00:36:03.980 I said, yeah, okay.

00:36:05.460 That's a Latin?

00:36:06.880 Yeah.

00:36:07.480 Yeah, pick him up.

00:36:09.300 And this and that.

00:36:10.480 I said, okay, good.

00:36:11.760 And he was cocky.

00:36:13.600 He thought I was just a pickup guy.

00:36:16.440 Picking him up.

00:36:17.460 Yeah, yeah.

00:36:18.640 Okay, kid.

00:36:19.440 Yeah.

00:36:19.920 What do you do?

00:36:20.780 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:36:21.380 Okay.

00:36:22.020 You want to sit in the front, Mr. Sinatra?

00:36:24.220 I said.

00:36:24.980 Or you want to sit in the back?

00:36:26.940 No, I'll sit in the front with you.

00:36:29.180 Anyway.

00:36:30.460 I drove him over.

00:36:32.260 Oh, Frank Sinatra.

00:36:33.300 Yeah, all the neighbors, they were coming out.

00:36:35.220 They heard he was coming.

00:36:36.480 He was maybe the greatest pop singer in the world that ever lived.

00:36:42.440 But he stinks as a man.

00:36:44.240 And he always did.

00:36:45.460 He went in.

00:36:46.120 Boom.

00:36:47.200 And Sue said, come on, no, no, I'm going to sit outside, get some here.

00:36:50.980 I see some people, I know I'm going to say something to him.

00:36:54.020 Okay.

00:36:55.340 Well, after an hour, they just were short and good.

00:36:58.400 Come out.

00:36:59.540 Ange stood at the door.

00:37:00.600 Everybody waved at Ange.

00:37:02.180 God bless him.

00:37:03.120 Nice man.

00:37:04.320 Brilliant.

00:37:05.720 Anyway.

00:37:06.380 Boom.

00:37:06.640 I said, you want to sit in the front?

00:37:08.900 No, I'll sit in the front with you.

00:37:10.440 All of a sudden, I seen his manner changed.

00:37:13.080 I didn't know you were, you don't have to know anything about me.

00:37:16.780 I'm just nice to you because of Angelo Bruno.

00:37:20.120 And he's nice to me because he likes me.

00:37:22.920 And that was all that was said all the way back.

00:37:29.400 No Frank Sinatra, no this, no.

00:37:32.160 That's, that are people, they didn't matter to me.

00:37:35.440 And the most important person after many years is my wife.

00:37:41.580 What was your involvement in Atlantic City?

00:37:43.360 Atlantic City was a dirty dish town.

00:37:47.420 It had nothing after the original.

00:37:49.800 People were almost starving.

00:37:51.860 They weren't working.

00:37:52.920 They weren't doing anything.

00:37:53.960 When I went, usually I drive Ange to New York.

00:37:57.940 He goes to the social clubs.

00:37:59.420 I don't want to go there.

00:38:00.320 I'll stay outside.

00:38:01.040 We'll go here, there.

00:38:02.260 That's all.

00:38:02.740 Go see.

00:38:03.240 And he comes back.

00:38:04.460 He said, come on morning.

00:38:06.320 We're going for a ride.

00:38:07.160 I know where I meant to New York.

00:38:08.720 Okay.

00:38:09.260 He was a heavy smoker, you know.

00:38:11.060 Ange.

00:38:12.340 I take him.

00:38:14.420 We go to the, he said, stay outside.

00:38:16.320 You don't have to come to the club.

00:38:18.500 Say hello to the guy because they all knew me as being an angel of

00:38:22.080 Bruno's chauffeur.

00:38:24.580 And I'm chatting.

00:38:26.000 A half hour or so, he comes out.

00:38:27.380 Come on.

00:38:27.700 We're going to go take a ride to a hotel.

00:38:29.800 Hotel where?

00:38:30.740 He said, I know where it's at.

00:38:32.080 I'll show you.

00:38:32.880 We drive.

00:38:34.200 Guess what?

00:38:34.780 The hotel.

00:38:35.260 The Walt's office store.

00:38:36.840 We went in.

00:38:38.000 I sat down.

00:38:39.560 He went in.

00:38:40.640 We went to the elevator.

00:38:42.060 One up.

00:38:42.520 A couple hours passed.

00:38:44.480 Two, three hours.

00:38:45.600 And the elevator door opened.

00:38:47.000 Who comes out?

00:38:47.860 Ange.

00:38:49.100 Who's walking behind him?

00:38:51.420 Carlo Gambino.

00:38:52.680 Bosses of all.

00:38:53.640 All bosses.

00:38:55.640 I said, oh my God.

00:38:58.000 They must have had some speech up there with him.

00:39:00.140 And they had a suite since Luciano had it.

00:39:03.740 They're going to have meetings up there at that time.

00:39:06.920 Ange walked over.

00:39:08.460 And I see Carlo's looking straight at me.

00:39:11.600 I said, I stay still.

00:39:14.040 It's bad manners to approach a boss, especially one like him, too fast.

00:39:19.880 Never, never step after a man too fast, whether he's a boss or he's dangerous.

00:39:28.000 I just stood there.

00:39:30.140 He walked over.

00:39:30.840 He went, come here.

00:39:32.420 Walked over.

00:39:33.580 He put his hand out.

00:39:34.840 I've never put your hand out to a boss.

00:39:38.180 Who are you to go shake him?

00:39:39.840 I just, he put his hand out.

00:39:42.180 I better shake his hand because I wouldn't have a hand left.

00:39:46.580 I shook his hand.

00:39:48.240 Ange said, that's the young man I keep telling you about.

00:39:52.520 Oh, yes.

00:39:53.720 Ange told me about you, that you are a capable man.

00:39:58.960 Capable means one thing in that language.

00:40:02.740 You're able to do what you're, I try to be, I said.

00:40:06.920 Okay.

00:40:07.980 He said, we got, we came up with an idea.

00:40:10.420 And walk out with us.

00:40:13.500 We want to tell you about it.

00:40:14.700 My God, they're going to, it made me feel like I was Don Cheech.

00:40:18.640 He said, we're talking about Atlantic City.

00:40:21.080 Ange told me that you took over a local 170 in Camden.

00:40:27.300 They had a problem.

00:40:28.220 You took it over.

00:40:29.040 They had an election.

00:40:32.640 You won.

00:40:34.020 Yeah.

00:40:34.580 Yes, I did.

00:40:35.620 But I give him my time.

00:40:39.100 He said, my sons came back.

00:40:41.740 Their lawyers go to Wall Street.

00:40:43.920 They play.

00:40:44.500 They know there's business.

00:40:46.240 They're trying to raise money for Atlantic City to make it into a casino town.

00:40:51.980 My God.

00:40:53.340 Look at who's behind it.

00:40:54.860 And he said, we have to send one guy to go see our friend.

00:41:00.000 Let me say his name.

00:41:01.500 Our friend in Chicago.

00:41:03.600 We want you.

00:41:04.820 If it works, you run that union.

00:41:07.480 Well, I got it now.

00:41:08.420 But you run that, you run that union.

00:41:10.200 They got another union down there.

00:41:12.980 You're going to, we're going to get that union, your union to come together.

00:41:17.740 And we're going to make you run it, the whole thing, because we won a casino town.

00:41:24.040 My God.

00:41:26.080 And that's how they met Carlo Gambino.

00:41:30.220 And then everything started to boom.

00:41:33.620 Get this one.

00:41:34.520 They started pushing it.

00:41:36.020 When they had, when it came up for election, the referendum, the pass, they lost.

00:41:42.100 Not much more, but they lost.

00:41:43.980 Now, when prior to that, I went to them and said, you know, they need some money, the people that are trying to put it, for the paper, for everything.

00:41:51.960 Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:41:52.700 We're going to give so much.

00:41:54.040 That's good.

00:41:54.540 I can count on you.

00:41:55.680 They gave this when this was needed.

00:41:58.320 Imagine people owning property, owning beat up hotels so you could sell, make another hotel.

00:42:04.560 They didn't give nothing.

00:42:05.840 I said, call a meeting next week.

00:42:09.880 I'm going to meet everybody.

00:42:11.560 And call the building trades that come in.

00:42:14.300 Tell them Ralphie said it.

00:42:16.460 I didn't say Ralphie.

00:42:17.400 I didn't have to.

00:42:18.740 I was known as Ralphie.

00:42:20.320 Well, next week they were over there and I came in.

00:42:22.700 Hey, brother, let's not talk.

00:42:25.500 This is not a friendly talk.

00:42:26.800 We're going to try to push that again, the next boat.

00:42:31.840 And I'm going to tell you how much every one of you is going to have to put in.

00:42:37.680 They put big money up.

00:42:39.320 And we got extra money from Philadelphia because I went up there.

00:42:43.540 And John McCullough was alive at the time.

00:42:46.180 You don't know John McCullough.

00:42:47.320 He was a Marine here on the Second World War.

00:42:51.120 And Nicky Scarfo had him killed because of Atlantic City.

00:42:55.720 He went and told, I said, John.

00:42:59.040 And John wasn't afraid of anybody.

00:43:01.240 I said, John, we need more money from you.

00:43:04.100 He runs the building trades, plumber and things.

00:43:06.420 They're all making big money.

00:43:07.940 This is what we need.

00:43:09.940 And lo and behold, they put up a bundle up for Atlantic City

00:43:14.820 because they were transferring guys and getting jobs and everything.

00:43:18.460 And this is the reason that Nicky Scarfo hated John McCullough.

00:43:26.620 That's another reason.

00:43:28.820 And Nicky Scarfo talked to Stuberda, Philip Tester.

00:43:34.240 Stuberda.

00:43:34.980 You know Stuberda, what it means?

00:43:36.780 Okay.

00:43:37.520 He talked to him.

00:43:38.940 He said, we got to kill him because he's going to get us in trouble.

00:43:44.020 They gave money for this and that.

00:43:46.540 Philip Tester didn't know anything about business.

00:43:49.520 He said, let me do it.

00:43:51.480 I'll take him.

00:43:52.040 You ain't got nothing to do with it.

00:43:53.580 He did it.

00:43:54.920 He called Long John, who was Angelo Bruno's legitimate,

00:43:59.260 so-called legitimate partner in the vending, cigarettes, cigars,

00:44:03.520 and told him, we're going to have to kill this guy.

00:44:07.220 Well, they put it together.

00:44:08.440 They go there on a Christmas week.

00:44:12.960 John already went home.

00:44:14.660 He's on the phone talking.

00:44:16.420 And the guy with the bundle of flowers and all,

00:44:19.800 oh, yeah, Mrs. McCullough, she's like, yeah, can I bring these in?

00:44:23.200 I'm going to say, yeah, okay, good.

00:44:24.800 This guy brings the flowers, puts them down, pulls out of the gun.

00:44:29.480 Boom, boom, boom, boom.

00:44:31.580 Kills John McCullough while he's talking on the phone in front of his wife

00:44:35.280 and then leaves.

00:44:37.480 He, this kid, this junkie, he's doing life.

00:44:41.100 This junkie was told by Long John, who was involved with the whole thing,

00:44:47.200 that's Angelo Bruno's partner.

00:44:49.560 Imagine that.

00:44:51.000 And told him, don't worry, we're going to fix everything up.

00:44:54.180 You're going to be a high man in the low.

00:44:56.140 Kill him.

00:44:56.880 And that's how John McCullough got killed.

00:44:58.820 Under the orders from here, Nicky Scarfo, telling Long John,

00:45:03.860 and he got this kid to go in and kill him.

00:45:06.300 You want me to like them?

00:45:07.880 Long John was a crumb, just like Nicky Scarfo.

00:45:10.840 He was deadly afraid of Nicky.

00:45:12.320 What was the relation, was, did Carlo Gambino ask you to do something with John Gotti?

00:45:17.000 What happened with you and Gotti?

00:45:18.660 There was something happened with you and John Gotti.

00:45:20.800 John Gotti, I never, I never liked.

00:45:23.020 I'll tell you what he did.

00:45:25.180 What he did.

00:45:25.940 He was in Lewisburg with Joe McGrill.

00:45:31.180 They were, both were doing a little bit.

00:45:34.600 They started to talk.

00:45:35.820 Both were braggarts.

00:45:37.360 Joe McGrill, ex-fighter, tough guy, this, that.

00:45:41.360 Joe McGrill told him, I got Atlantic City.

00:45:45.280 It's the truth.

00:45:46.740 This is mine.

00:45:47.500 I'll get whatever I want.

00:45:48.760 I run the union.

00:45:50.440 They said, you run the union.

00:45:52.060 We thought, Ralphie.

00:45:52.980 No, I'd do it.

00:45:55.020 Oh, yeah?

00:45:56.520 He did it.

00:45:57.620 He said that?

00:45:58.620 Yeah.

00:45:59.300 Fuck Ralphie.

00:46:00.700 Oh, he said that?

00:46:02.820 Yeah, okay.

00:46:04.020 Now, Joe McGrill became, and John Gotti got what he told him.

00:46:09.980 It's going to be my union.

00:46:12.400 He went home, went to New York City, and Vela Croce was his friend.

00:46:18.860 He told him, I'm going to get this, get this Irish guy.

00:46:23.380 Come, he's going to give, and he'll do anything we want.

00:46:26.700 And if he doesn't, we'll do what we have to do.

00:46:31.320 He said, okay.

00:46:32.480 He's already got Atlantic City, John Gotti.

00:46:35.440 I said to him, I said, he's got, he's got, I said, I've got to kill this guy.

00:46:43.320 He's running back with every tail, and he's making it really into a thing that's going to happen.

00:46:49.240 But it wasn't going to happen, because I still was outside, because I was waiting for Mr. McGrill to come home.

00:46:57.540 And that's how, what I said about, I don't care about John Gotti.

00:47:02.460 John Gotti gets his hair fixed with a barber every day.

00:47:07.020 John Gotti killed D.B. D.B. was the pornographer king.

00:47:13.980 He was having trouble in Philadelphia, because he put two places there.

00:47:19.280 And his partners was Angelo Bruno, Carla Gambino, they shared everything.

00:47:25.480 And it was him, Beeson guy.

00:47:28.500 He had his own studios, everything.

00:47:31.140 I said, my God, everything's coming together over here.

00:47:34.460 What's this guy?

00:47:35.120 And now, John Gotti keeps, he bets, he couldn't win if he knew who was going to win.

00:47:40.900 And then he bet anything.

00:47:44.040 He was up to here with debt, he'd go to him.

00:47:46.240 He'd give him so much pain off.

00:47:48.220 It got to be one day.

00:47:50.340 He said, John, what are you doing?

00:47:52.020 $25,000, $30,000 on a weekend.

00:47:54.340 I can't afford that.

00:47:55.660 You're making money.

00:47:57.080 Well, I'm not making that kind of money.

00:48:02.040 And turned him down for that one time.

00:48:03.840 After that, he killed him.

00:48:07.380 John Gotti killed D. Benedito.

00:48:10.240 Killed him for no reason, a good guy.

00:48:13.000 That paid his debts all.

00:48:15.760 John Gotti.

00:48:16.940 Let's get back to Lang City.

00:48:19.000 We went to three bosses.

00:48:22.200 I only answered to three bosses.

00:48:25.500 Angelo Bruno, Carla Gambino, and Joe Batters.

00:48:30.760 They were, and they told me, you do what you have to do to keep that, because that's going

00:48:37.660 to be our city.

00:48:38.740 That was a wide open order.

00:48:40.780 And I did.

00:48:42.740 And we made it.

00:48:43.780 And when, as soon as they gave him the, they vote, we won.

00:48:49.860 Guess who went to jail?

00:48:52.440 I went to jail.

00:48:53.600 They had me on Charlie Allen, this guy, the insurance guy.

00:48:58.840 We had an insurance guy.

00:49:00.320 Insurance guy gave up.

00:49:01.940 I helped a Jewish guy burn his furniture store down.

00:49:06.540 He said, you had a million dollars worth of insurance.

00:49:09.320 You do?

00:49:10.140 Okay.

00:49:11.300 I want half of that.

00:49:12.580 You keep the other half.

00:49:13.800 And go make another store.

00:49:15.760 Is this Mr. Living Room guy?

00:49:17.280 Mr. Living Room.

00:49:18.480 And I went to jail.

00:49:19.540 And all hell, when I went away, all hell broke loose.

00:49:25.620 Walked around like this, Nicky Scarpo, certainly, and Eddie.

00:49:31.300 Oh, my God.

00:49:32.200 Oh, my God.

00:49:32.940 What happened?

00:49:34.600 I said, what happened?

00:49:36.540 Now, you hear these stories, and they have no proof.

00:49:40.940 They never did anything in any casino town.

00:49:44.160 They weren't allowed in Vegas.

00:49:47.260 Before I became, with Ed Handley, the head of the culture, all them people,

00:49:55.740 when we got off the plane one time, me and Mike Marone, the lieutenant, cop,

00:50:00.780 captain, they were there to pick us up.

00:50:03.020 You ain't coming here.

00:50:04.420 I never did.

00:50:05.920 You're not coming here unless you want to see the desert, they said.

00:50:10.580 They were known to bury guys in the desert, the cops.

00:50:14.580 When they were real bad.

00:50:16.240 That's what I know.

00:50:17.500 So, we all got together.

00:50:19.980 We ended up, after that, I could go anywhere with Ed Handley,

00:50:25.660 and we could do what we wanted to do in Atlantic City.

00:50:28.860 We all started to make money on the insurance.

00:50:32.180 Imagine having 30,000 members paying you insurance for health insurance

00:50:38.240 or any other insurance you have.

00:50:40.920 Don't you have to give, if you're going to make it with that 30,000,

00:50:45.200 if you're going to make 10,000, don't you have to give me a few pennies?

00:50:50.700 Because I'm the guy that sent them over to see you.

00:50:53.580 And it works that way.

00:50:54.960 That's how you were making that money at that time in Atlantic City?

00:50:57.920 Yeah.

00:50:58.320 Is that also the time with the 500,000 Quaaludes and 10 kilos of cocaine or no?

00:51:02.400 Oh, no.

00:51:03.060 They set me up.

00:51:04.940 I didn't sell that.

00:51:06.640 My cousin Raymond and Charlie Allen set me up.

00:51:11.080 Raymond was saying, I'm going to lose my house.

00:51:13.260 And it's me like the jerk-off that I am.

00:51:16.260 I said, you're not lying, are you?

00:51:17.900 No.

00:51:19.040 Him and Charlie Allen set me up in Florida.

00:51:22.240 And they took me away.

00:51:23.800 Nice, huh?

00:51:25.100 My wife and children all by themselves.

00:51:27.580 But we did okay.

00:51:29.360 So you had nothing to do with the Quaaludes and the cocaine at that time?

00:51:33.040 I was going to help them.

00:51:34.900 Oh, to help them.

00:51:35.820 With money, with money.

00:51:37.120 I got it, yeah.

00:51:38.860 So let's fast forward.

00:51:40.620 So now let's fast forward.

00:51:41.600 You end up doing time.

00:51:45.460 You're in jail, I think, with Joey Morlino.

00:51:48.540 And you guys are together.

00:51:50.680 He knows that you have some experience in the past, obviously, with Angelo Bruno.

00:51:58.440 And his father, he comes from a family.

00:52:01.320 He has a certain lineage.

00:52:02.760 How did those conversations take place between you and Morlino to then you becoming a boss?

00:52:07.880 Well, it's very, very simple.

00:52:11.720 Joe Morlino owed everybody in the city of Philadelphia a lot of money.

00:52:16.360 Nobody trusted him.

00:52:17.720 Now, he had the crew, Michael Chang, who got killed.

00:52:21.440 And the rest of them, he had a crew.

00:52:23.220 And he had something that I didn't have.

00:52:25.160 There was nobody around but them.

00:52:26.980 And he told me everything that they had and this and that.

00:52:30.620 He was going to do this good.

00:52:31.920 You're going to do that?

00:52:33.040 Okay, I'm going to back you.

00:52:34.760 I sent word to New York.

00:52:36.620 Anybody goes in there, Joe Morlino, I'm going to kill him.

00:52:41.260 I didn't say I'm going to hurt them.

00:52:43.060 I'm going to kill them.

00:52:44.800 It's the only way to say to people that know that.

00:52:47.700 And they know where it comes from.

00:52:50.860 And this is what he is, what Joe Morlino ended up being a punk.

00:52:56.860 I went to trial, got found guilty.

00:53:00.240 And then I said, okay, I'm going to go to a win.

00:53:08.200 I said, send me an envelope.

00:53:10.160 We made a deal.

00:53:11.060 I sent word to them.

00:53:12.720 Every, send my wife an envelope for her to live on.

00:53:15.640 You know what they got for one year?

00:53:19.340 I waited a year.

00:53:21.760 Nothing.

00:53:23.840 I said, oh, now I'm facing another one.

00:53:26.940 I called the FBI.

00:53:27.840 I'm going to talk to you.

00:53:30.160 And that's how I become a witness at the end of my career.

00:53:33.720 Look at them.

00:53:34.300 And when I got in there, I said, and these punks.

00:53:37.980 And they go, and the judge, I'll use the words I want to use.

00:53:41.460 He gave me as much as they got, 13 years, and he gave me 13 years.

00:53:47.580 And then I did it every fucking day.

00:53:51.560 Those punks, Joe Morlino, two.

00:53:55.080 And how about when they killed poor Salvi?

00:53:58.460 I know his whole story.

00:54:00.760 Let's go back to Morlino, though.

00:54:01.960 So when you were in jail.

00:54:02.980 Morlino's nothing.

00:54:04.180 He knows nothing.

00:54:04.980 He's the dumbest man in the world.

00:54:06.720 He's a liar.

00:54:07.540 You listen to him, you'll build a house for him.

00:54:12.040 He's a liar.

00:54:13.180 He's a boy.

00:54:13.860 He owes everybody.

00:54:15.460 Everybody that had anything to do with him.

00:54:18.160 I see him.

00:54:19.040 Oh, my God.

00:54:21.420 He is a punk.

00:54:23.220 I call them punks every day.

00:54:27.740 They're punks.

00:54:29.120 That's why give me 13, give them 13.

00:54:32.040 Fuck him.

00:54:33.300 I did time before.

00:54:34.400 I did 16.

00:54:35.040 13 out of 13 is 39 years.

00:54:38.280 And bad joints.

00:54:40.080 How'd you become a boss, though?

00:54:41.760 Because that's where the controversy comes in.

00:54:44.220 What's the controversy?

00:54:45.340 So you're in jail.

00:54:46.560 You're in prison with Joey.

00:54:48.020 You guys are thinking about coming out.

00:54:49.860 There's a strategy to create a war because it's an opportunity for you to take over.

00:54:54.380 You and Joey.

00:54:55.760 And then, you know, you know.

00:54:57.740 It's very, very, very, very, very simple.

00:55:00.580 Yeah.

00:55:01.240 I became a boss because I said, I'm the boss.

00:55:04.460 I came home.

00:55:05.360 Anybody that doesn't like it, I don't hide.

00:55:08.960 I drive around.

00:55:09.640 I go to the track.

00:55:10.620 You could come.

00:55:12.320 I was always, and I was under parole.

00:55:14.440 And I had a pistol on me.

00:55:16.240 Go ahead.

00:55:16.580 Let him come.

00:55:17.820 You know how many people said that?

00:55:19.640 Nobody.

00:55:20.080 Excuse me for raising my voice.

00:55:23.940 It's just, I remember what my wife had to do.

00:55:26.620 So you came out and no one swore you in.

00:55:28.500 You became a boss.

00:55:29.440 There was no, did you?

00:55:31.020 I was sworn in already by, I even forgot to tell them.

00:55:35.740 One, the only swimming in that I ever had was me, Angelo Bruno, and Carla Gambino.

00:55:45.260 All three of us cut our fingers.

00:55:47.640 Carla said, that's got to be a person.

00:55:49.200 We want it that way.

00:55:50.520 You belong to me, and you belong to Ang now.

00:55:53.740 That's why they sent me to Chicago.

00:55:56.120 Nobody could touch me.

00:55:57.700 That's why.

00:55:59.240 And you want to listen to people that you, I don't know what you're doing, but God bless you.

00:56:04.960 I've never met Joey.

00:56:05.660 So you need to, I've never met Joey.

00:56:07.260 He's a punk.

00:56:08.640 He's a liar, and he's afraid of people.

00:56:11.660 I saved his life.

00:56:14.060 They wanted to kill him from New York.

00:56:16.260 I said, I'll put my life up for him.

00:56:19.260 Ask him.

00:56:21.860 You know what he's done to people?

00:56:24.020 The money he owes to people.

00:56:25.480 His mother, he just, why even talk about it?

00:56:30.540 You guys both got out in 2011.

00:56:33.060 I don't know.

00:56:33.900 Did you stay at the same place or no?

00:56:35.980 Where?

00:56:36.500 You and Joey.

00:56:37.380 Same place.

00:56:38.480 Same prison.

00:56:39.600 No.

00:56:40.160 He was at a different place than you were.

00:56:41.440 He couldn't stay with me.

00:56:44.080 As old as I was, I beat the shit out of him.

00:56:48.000 That punk.

00:56:49.320 You don't know how to fight.

00:56:50.820 That's what he is.

00:56:52.420 I'm telling you what they are.

00:56:54.100 They cheat on everybody.

00:56:56.520 They did everything.

00:56:57.540 He hurt everybody.

00:56:59.080 He owes everybody.

00:57:01.120 Now he's walking the street, the boss.

00:57:03.720 He made himself the boss.

00:57:05.640 He's the boss.

00:57:06.280 Nobody looks at him.

00:57:08.500 He can't get nobody.

00:57:10.020 Him and Leonetti were like this when they were friends.

00:57:14.380 They couldn't come near Salvi Tesla.

00:57:16.120 They couldn't come near him.

00:57:19.940 A true man.

00:57:21.400 A true man.

00:57:22.740 Do you still keep in contact with any of the mob at all?

00:57:25.100 No.

00:57:25.280 No one.

00:57:26.300 Why should I?

00:57:26.940 You don't communicate with him?

00:57:27.420 They don't take him.

00:57:28.220 No.

00:57:29.100 If I want to, I can go to anywhere and I'll be welcome.

00:57:35.320 The guys from New York were all in Lewisburg.

00:57:38.920 They loved me because I was true with them.

00:57:42.620 I didn't lie to them.

00:57:44.020 Going back to when we were talking about Frank Sharon and we're talking about Jim Nelson.

00:57:47.660 Frank Sharon is a liar.

00:57:48.780 He's a pathetic.

00:57:49.900 Have you seen Irishman?

00:57:51.740 No, I didn't see it.

00:57:52.620 You didn't see it.

00:57:53.300 You know the story of it, what it's about?

00:57:55.080 Yeah, yeah.

00:57:55.900 So you already know it's not a true story.

00:57:58.000 It's not true.

00:57:59.240 Even the people that made it now said it.

00:58:02.340 They made a movie on a lie.

00:58:05.120 Three old men killed and took that money.

00:58:08.600 Oh, they would have been ashamed of themselves.

00:58:10.760 Pacino, whoever the other guys, they're old.

00:58:16.020 I'm old, but I'm not old.

00:58:20.220 What do you mean by they're old?

00:58:21.660 I'm old.

00:58:22.740 You said they're old.

00:58:23.800 What do you mean by they're old?

00:58:24.440 They're old.

00:58:25.560 They're age.

00:58:26.600 What's the age?

00:58:27.060 They're not my age.

00:58:28.000 Because they can't do nothing.

00:58:30.080 What I mean?

00:58:31.380 They can't do nothing.

00:58:33.240 I don't know what that means, they can't do nothing.

00:58:34.700 They don't have the...

00:58:35.640 They can't kill me.

00:58:36.720 They're not capable.

00:58:37.120 They're not capable.

00:58:38.360 What am I going to tell you?

00:58:39.860 I'm trying to make it look good.

00:58:41.420 They're going to...

00:58:42.400 Yeah.

00:58:43.600 My God.

00:58:45.420 Last story here before we go through Speed Round.

00:58:47.860 What happened with Sonny Liston, with Cassius Clay, 1954?

00:58:50.960 What's the story with that?

00:58:52.160 I'm going to tell you it's very simple.

00:58:54.040 Sonny Liston was managed by Blinky Palermo.

00:58:57.160 You know who Blinky Palermo was?

00:58:59.440 See, you don't even know that.

00:59:00.880 I got to help you.

00:59:02.000 If I live here, I'm Blinky...

00:59:03.800 You're a historian.

00:59:05.260 Okay.

00:59:05.880 Blinky Palermo and Frankie Carbo from New York ran the boxing game.

00:59:10.980 Okay.

00:59:11.220 You have to understand, Blinky Palermo had Sonny Liston.

00:59:17.140 He used to train in Philadelphia for that fight for Cassius Clay.

00:59:22.940 What happened?

00:59:24.360 Cassius Clay was...

00:59:25.620 First, he opened up at 11 to 1, underdog.

00:59:28.480 Then it went to 10 to 1 and stood that way.

00:59:31.580 Blinky told our friend, the champ, he said, listen, you got to take a dive for this one.

00:59:37.700 You're using too much heroin because Blinky would have killed him.

00:59:41.840 Blinky weighed 112 pounds.

00:59:44.040 He would have killed him.

00:59:44.960 He said, what am I supposed to do, kill you?

00:59:46.380 You're like a Sunday man.

00:59:47.420 You have to watch how much heroin you shoot in.

00:59:50.420 That's what he was doing.

00:59:51.820 But when he was training for a fight, he never took it.

00:59:55.240 And the man, you're seeing that one picture with me, Frankie, with Hoffa.

01:00:02.260 When he used to get out of line, they used to let Frankie go in and spar with him.

01:00:07.720 Frankie used to be a fighter.

01:00:10.220 Frankie used to go in there.

01:00:11.680 What did he used to do to him?

01:00:13.480 Frankie's a big guy to the left.

01:00:14.780 Yeah, yeah.

01:00:15.480 Hoffa in the middle.

01:00:15.820 If you had a bat, you'd be a loser with Frankie.

01:00:20.140 As big and strong as he was, he was quiet.

01:00:24.440 And he listened to me all the time.

01:00:26.660 That's why when he called me, Hoffa, on the phone, I got to see, I got to see, was something else.

01:00:33.060 What happened with Liston, though?

01:00:34.500 What happened with Liston and Josh's play?

01:00:36.000 Liston killed himself.

01:00:38.380 They don't say somebody, he OD'd.

01:00:40.920 He went down.

01:00:42.640 And in the second fight, he went down.

01:00:45.820 He had six rounds.

01:00:46.720 He didn't want to come out or something.

01:00:48.300 That's another one.

01:00:49.100 They won money.

01:00:49.980 Every boss and underboss won fortunes with that first fight.

01:00:55.760 And the second fight, they cleaned up, too.

01:00:58.180 Because they knew it was a setup.

01:00:59.480 Of course.

01:01:00.900 Of course.

01:01:01.760 He ain't going to do it.

01:01:02.780 He's afraid of them.

01:01:04.520 He was fearless.

01:01:05.880 A big job.

01:01:06.520 But he was afraid of them because they would kill him.

01:01:09.560 Frankie Carbo would chew him up.

01:01:11.500 Frankie Carbo is the man that killed Bugsy Siegel in California, in L.A.

01:01:18.460 He killed them.

01:01:19.620 They got $100.

01:01:20.620 He killed them.

01:01:21.940 The man in gray did all the top killing at that time.

01:01:25.180 Who ordered it?

01:01:26.900 Who ordered it?

01:01:28.060 Simple.

01:01:29.220 The whole crew from the Italians who were building the casino, lending them the money in Vegas.

01:01:37.540 They said, God.

01:01:39.120 And he said, no, God, kill him.

01:01:41.400 That's the difference.

01:01:42.460 He took the money.

01:01:43.740 He didn't take the money.

01:01:45.340 The broad took the money and put him.

01:01:46.900 He was madly in love.

01:01:48.860 But they killed him.

01:01:51.400 That's not the point.

01:01:53.040 The point is they all made money and they killed him.

01:01:57.840 You ever met Meyer Lansky or no?

01:01:59.240 No.

01:02:00.000 Never met Meyer Lansky.

01:02:00.920 I didn't want to meet him.

01:02:02.060 You didn't want to meet him?

01:02:02.640 I didn't want to meet him because he gave up his friend.

01:02:05.380 He gave up Bugsy Siegel.

01:02:09.720 He gave him up.

01:02:10.940 Yeah, he's down there with that whore and nothing like that.

01:02:14.240 As far as I'm concerned, you can do.

01:02:16.080 He said, yes, you can kill him.

01:02:17.920 And they killed him.

01:02:19.160 Nice.

01:02:19.860 Nice.

01:02:20.280 When you go to bed at night, you get up and say, my God, look what happened.

01:02:24.120 Did you meet Bugsy or no?

01:02:25.380 Huh?

01:02:25.720 Did you meet Bugsy?

01:02:26.660 Ben Siegel?

01:02:27.300 Bugsy Siegel?

01:02:27.940 Yeah.

01:02:28.280 No.

01:02:28.700 You never met him?

01:02:29.360 No.

01:02:29.600 You met any of the four, like Costello, Lucky, or any of those guys?

01:02:33.520 No.

01:02:34.900 They're not your era?

01:02:35.820 No.

01:02:36.280 Okay.

01:02:37.000 Got it.

01:02:37.880 Okay, the last thing here we're going to do is speed round.

01:02:40.220 I'm going to give you a name.

01:02:41.380 Tell me the first thing that comes to your mind.

01:02:43.020 What do you call it?

01:02:43.880 Speed round.

01:02:45.240 I'll give you a name.

01:02:46.460 Tell me the first thing that comes to your mind.

01:02:47.040 That's not a kid game.

01:02:48.220 Go ahead.

01:02:48.520 So we're going to play a kid game.

01:02:49.800 It's okay.

01:02:50.440 We're going to play a kid game.

01:02:51.860 All right.

01:02:52.260 First name, Joey Morlino.

01:02:54.880 Spin on the ground.

01:02:56.440 Nicky Scarfo.

01:02:57.940 A demon.

01:02:59.940 Sonny Francis.

01:03:01.720 Nice man.

01:03:02.940 Sammy Gravano.

01:03:04.840 I met a demon.

01:03:06.680 Sammy Gravano.

01:03:08.360 What'd he do?

01:03:09.660 He killed everybody because he couldn't go to jail.

01:03:12.800 That's why he killed them.

01:03:13.860 You got to understand this.

01:03:15.120 That's how I rule.

01:03:16.340 I went to jail.

01:03:17.800 I did 29 years.

01:03:19.280 I can't kill everybody.

01:03:20.840 People love.

01:03:21.420 My cousin Raymond set me up.

01:03:23.020 My Aunt Dolly, who's his mother.

01:03:25.520 I love my Aunt Dolly.

01:03:26.940 She treated me more like a mother than my mother.

01:03:29.940 She said when I come home, they threw a little party.

01:03:33.020 Ralphie, please.

01:03:33.860 She got me.

01:03:34.340 Don't kill my Raymond.

01:03:35.680 They all knew me since I was a boy.

01:03:38.580 Don't kill my Raymond.

01:03:39.900 He didn't know what he was.

01:03:41.080 I said, Aunt Dolly, let's not talk about it.

01:03:44.000 Let's have another drink.

01:03:45.120 That's the truth.

01:03:47.300 My Aunt Dolly is, don't kill my son.

01:03:49.480 What was I going to do?

01:03:50.700 I couldn't do that.

01:03:52.660 Some certain things I couldn't do.

01:03:55.040 John Vesey.

01:03:56.280 A crumb.

01:03:57.380 A crumb.

01:03:59.780 What do you want me to say?

01:04:00.980 He's a crumb.

01:04:01.900 He never was any.

01:04:02.940 They made him into a gangster.

01:04:04.400 He ran.

01:04:04.860 He shot.

01:04:05.760 He got his brother killed.

01:04:07.280 Johnny Gongs.

01:04:08.360 I don't know.

01:04:08.740 You know Johnny Gongs?

01:04:10.120 Wait a minute.

01:04:10.600 I know of him, but I don't know.

01:04:12.640 I don't have no opinion.

01:04:14.060 Steven Mazzoni.

01:04:15.120 He was with me almost every day when I was home.

01:04:20.060 He become, he bought a week.

01:04:22.340 He went bald.

01:04:23.200 He bought a week.

01:04:24.360 He became a gangster.

01:04:26.880 He couldn't be a gangster when all of us are dead.

01:04:29.600 Angelo Bruno.

01:04:31.060 A fine man.

01:04:32.560 Like I told whenever the judges, they ask me,

01:04:37.620 a fine man, a fine old man, because he was.

01:04:41.480 That's why he's dead.

01:04:42.360 But he was a great boss with a lot of people.

01:04:45.440 Phil Tester.

01:04:46.980 Stinks.

01:04:48.380 Let me tell you something about Phil Tester.

01:04:50.420 He made his man go to see Sandome, a punk, a captain,

01:04:57.200 to settle because Tester and him and Sandome were arguing.

01:05:02.600 He said he'll go there.

01:05:03.900 He made him go by himself.

01:05:06.600 And that zip, John Stanford, who he put in business,

01:05:12.240 put him in the working business, construction.

01:05:16.700 He stinks.

01:05:17.760 Why would he even be?

01:05:19.060 Because they all have a story.

01:05:20.960 They don't have one story like me.

01:05:23.140 I don't have a story.

01:05:24.460 I'll tell you the truth.

01:05:26.020 I'll tell you what happened, what we did.

01:05:28.000 I killed Joe McGrill.

01:05:29.860 You know why?

01:05:31.320 Because he told Charlie Allen,

01:05:34.140 you go home, kill Ralphie.

01:05:35.740 I'll give you the, you'll be the second one in command over there

01:05:39.220 because I'm coming home soon.

01:05:40.760 And he did because he told a few other guys.

01:05:43.180 He tried to get somebody to bang me while I was on the street.

01:05:46.280 Nice man, huh?

01:05:47.340 Joe McGrill.

01:05:48.340 That's why I took him for a ride.

01:05:50.080 Let's go.

01:05:50.980 Let's go shake down the guy that's opening the new joint.

01:05:53.120 Come on.

01:05:54.020 I sat in the back.

01:05:55.000 I ran in the back.

01:05:56.080 You see the chapter I wrote on that?

01:05:58.180 Perfect.

01:05:59.020 And then when he pulled up, I said Ralph,

01:06:01.460 Ralph, what's going on here?

01:06:02.880 I said, I'll tell you what's going on.

01:06:04.840 I put three in the one hole in the back of his head.

01:06:08.500 Three.

01:06:09.560 Bing, bing, bing.

01:06:10.760 Hollow heads.

01:06:11.940 You wanted to kill me.

01:06:13.360 I made him.

01:06:14.520 Next one.

01:06:15.220 Jimmy Hoffa, one word.

01:06:16.960 A good man.

01:06:17.900 A good man.

01:06:18.540 Yeah.

01:06:19.260 Frank Sheeran.

01:06:19.940 A liar, pathetic, fool.

01:06:23.820 A fool.

01:06:25.160 Tommy Andrada.

01:06:26.260 I wouldn't trust him.

01:06:27.800 Joe Batters.

01:06:29.000 Joe Batters.

01:06:29.520 I'll give him my life.

01:06:31.260 Carlo Gambino.

01:06:32.300 I'll give him my life.

01:06:34.060 Phil Leonetti.

01:06:35.040 Phil Leonetti.

01:06:36.160 I don't even rank him.

01:06:38.640 He's got no ranking in my head.

01:06:40.900 Skinny Razor.

01:06:41.700 One of the finest men I have ever met.

01:06:46.440 You shake your head.

01:06:47.260 One of the finest men I've ever met.

01:06:49.680 Have you ever met him?

01:06:51.060 And you shake your hands and you understand that.

01:06:55.860 George Borghese.

01:06:57.520 He's Joe Merlino's hacky.

01:07:01.640 Nothing.

01:07:02.560 Nothing.

01:07:03.580 Saltesta.

01:07:05.560 A fine, young gangster.

01:07:08.580 As tough as they come.

01:07:09.820 You know, it's amazing because, obviously, myself, the viewers, we hear different stories.

01:07:16.020 But at the end of the day, you know, nobody...

01:07:17.480 I didn't hear stories.

01:07:18.580 You heard them.

01:07:19.100 Right.

01:07:19.340 We hear stories.

01:07:19.860 We.

01:07:21.140 We hear stories.

01:07:22.160 You're not included in the we.

01:07:22.760 Oh, I'm sorry.

01:07:24.040 We hear stories.

01:07:24.760 Okay, good.

01:07:25.620 Then what you're supposed...

01:07:27.440 Then you've got to be the editor of people that...

01:07:31.960 You believe them punks?

01:07:33.540 Then put it out.

01:07:34.860 Put it out.

01:07:36.000 Be a fool.

01:07:36.920 Look at all of them now, what they're doing.

01:07:38.680 And what they did.

01:07:40.580 Look what they did.

01:07:41.780 Nothing in their life.

01:07:43.300 Come on.

01:07:44.900 What's your first name?

01:07:46.360 Patrick.

01:07:47.300 Patrick's a beautiful name.

01:07:49.780 Patrick, listen to me.

01:07:51.060 I will never tell you a lie to make you...

01:07:53.900 Because I know you...

01:07:54.980 There's that.

01:07:56.120 Everything I'm telling you is the truth.

01:07:58.640 And the day I go home, I'm going to be there.

01:08:01.400 I'm going to think of you.

01:08:02.480 And any time you want to talk to me about any of this, let me know.

01:08:08.220 Only I can't take trains like that.

01:08:10.320 Or that...

01:08:10.840 What a...

01:08:11.400 Oh, my God.

01:08:12.340 What a train.

01:08:13.420 What a fucking train.

01:08:14.600 You've got to be desperate.

01:08:16.180 I'll get somebody to drive me.

01:08:18.860 But I wish you in good humor.

01:08:24.720 And don't make a lot of money.

01:08:27.820 God bless you.

01:08:28.400 You look like putting your shoes on, something.

01:08:31.420 You live your life.

01:08:33.660 Don't listen to people who want to come and...

01:08:36.860 You don't know anything about them.

01:08:38.540 You know about your business.

01:08:40.380 Please.

01:08:41.820 Do what you have to do.

01:08:43.620 I'll never hold anything against you.

01:08:46.400 Whether you say I'm crazy.

01:08:48.200 Whether this...

01:08:49.880 Whatever you do.

01:08:51.200 I tell you when I know the truth.

01:08:53.160 I can't get mad at you.

01:08:54.380 You say I'm a liar.

01:08:55.440 Okay.

01:08:55.800 You're not one of them, guys.

01:08:59.080 Patrick, please.

01:09:01.600 Thanks for coming out.

01:09:02.820 Final thoughts for the audience.

01:09:05.000 So, with that being said, you know, you heard a lot of different stories.

01:09:07.360 He says he's telling the truth.

01:09:08.940 You know, there's a lot of people that agree, disagree.

01:09:11.000 There's a lot of different rumors and stories out there.

01:09:12.880 But this is the book, if you haven't read it yet.

01:09:15.320 Last Dawn Standing.

01:09:16.920 The Secret Life of Mob Boss Ralph Natale.

01:09:19.760 Highest ranking member to become a witness.

01:09:22.540 Ralph, thanks for coming out.

01:09:23.920 You stay well and do well.

01:09:25.780 I appreciate it.

01:09:26.280 With the insurance business.

01:09:27.720 Thank you.

01:09:28.500 Yeah, that's a business.

01:09:29.560 It is a business.

01:09:30.340 Thanks, everybody, for listening.

01:09:31.660 And by the way, if you haven't already subscribed to Valuetainment on iTunes, please do so.

01:09:36.180 Give us a five-star.

01:09:37.680 Write a review if you haven't already.

01:09:39.160 And if you have any questions for me that you may have, you can always find me on Snapchat,

01:09:43.160 Instagram, Facebook, or YouTube.

01:09:45.120 Just search my name, Patrick MidDavid.

01:09:46.860 And I actually do respond back when they snap me or send me a message on Instagram.

01:09:51.880 With that being said, have a great day today.

01:09:53.680 Take care, everybody.

01:09:54.420 Bye-bye.

Valuetainment - July 29, 2020

Episode 502： Ex Mob Boss Turned Informant Loses His Cool

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