Valuetainment - Episode 504： Who is Roger Stone - Dirty Trickster or Marketing Genius？

00:00:00.000 30 seconds.

00:00:01.800 Did you ever think you would make it?

00:00:04.520 I feel I'm so close I could take sweet victory.

00:00:07.620 I know this life meant for me.

00:00:10.700 Yeah, why would you bet on Goliath when we got Bet David?

00:00:14.580 Valuetainment, giving, values contagious.

00:00:16.420 This world of entrepreneurs, we get no value to haters.

00:00:19.160 How they run, homie? 1.00

00:00:20.120 Look what I become.

00:00:21.400 I'm the one.

00:00:22.480 I'm Patrick Medevi, host of Item, and today I'm sitting down with Roger Stone. 0.92

00:00:25.320 Some people call him a dirty trickster.

00:00:27.160 Some call him a marketing genius.

00:00:28.600 But all I can tell you is brace yourself because you're about to learn a ton from a guy who had a lot of involvements.

00:00:35.360 His hands were involved in a lot of different things he did in politics, working with Richard Nixon, Bush, Reagan, and now Trump.

00:00:42.140 And he doesn't hold back in this interview.

00:00:44.360 So if you like politics, if you enjoy the understanding and the games behind politics, you're going to love this interview with Roger Stone.

00:00:52.180 Thank you so much for being a guest on Valuetainment.

00:00:54.220 Patrick, I'm really honored to be here.

00:00:56.360 But, you know, and after 16 months of being unconstitutionally gagged by a federal judge, let's just say I have a lot to say.

00:01:05.060 So I really welcome the opportunity.

00:01:07.360 Glad to hear that.

00:01:08.060 So, Roger, a question for you before we get into all these different topics that we can get into.

00:01:12.700 Obviously, there's a lot of different issues going on today.

00:01:14.540 I want to hear your thoughts about where you're at.

00:01:16.060 But there's one thing you say where you say there's four stages of fame, which is who is Roger Stone, get me Roger Stone, get me a Roger Stone type, and then who is Roger Stone?

00:01:30.360 So, one, what does that mean?

00:01:32.240 And two, who is Roger Stone?

00:01:34.600 Well, that's the cycle of a career, whether you're in broadcasting or sports or entertainment or business.

00:01:43.640 When you begin, of course, you're not well-known.

00:01:46.320 When you accomplish things, you are well-known and people want your talents.

00:01:51.800 After you're no longer in the game, people want somebody just like you.

00:01:55.480 And then over time, people forget entirely who you were and whether you left a mark on this world.

00:02:01.580 My goal was to leave a mark on this world.

00:02:04.840 I have spent four decades fighting for the things that I believe in, and that is constitutional liberty, the U.S. Constitution, maximum personal freedom, small government, a strong national defense, and the United States of America.

00:02:21.900 And you take a lot of slings and arrows.

00:02:24.480 People have to remember that when someone wins an election, that means someone loses an election.

00:02:30.420 And the person who loses the election is never happy about it.

00:02:34.180 Sometimes they are even vindictive.

00:02:36.760 So, you know, I have no apologies to make.

00:02:39.760 I've spent four decades in the rough and tumble of American politics, and I called them as I saw them.

00:02:46.260 And although I am a Republican, I really believe that the Republican-Democrat divide is a Hegelian device that's just used to divide us.

00:02:56.180 The real divide in America is between the insiders who have run things for 30 years and an outsider, in this case, Donald Trump, someone who comes to Washington and completely threatens to upset the status quo, who halts the country's brunting over the cliff to globalism.

00:03:17.300 Which is why the two-party duopoly, the political establishment in Washington, has been so anxious to get rid of this man because he threatens their cozy little relationships.

00:03:29.300 He threatens the way they have lined their pockets at the cost of the American people.

00:03:35.760 So, you know, I have nothing to apologize for.

00:03:39.060 Politics ain't beanbag, as they say.

00:03:42.000 And I've given as well as I've gotten.

00:03:44.800 But there's one thing I do object to.

00:03:47.340 I keep reading in every article about me over the last year, self-described dirty trickster Roger Stone or self-proclaimed dirty trickster Roger Stone.

00:04:00.420 Or as CNN said the other day, Roger Stone, who has proclaimed himself the dirty trickster of American politics.

00:04:09.840 Patrick, I have never proclaimed myself that or called myself that.

00:04:13.560 I have pointed out that others have called me that.

00:04:17.520 I've said that I'm consigned to the fact that it'll be in my obit, probably on my gravestone.

00:04:22.460 But I have not engaged in any activity that isn't the same as the activities of my contemporaries.

00:04:30.620 And most specifically, I'm prepared to do anything to elect my candidate short of breaking the law.

00:04:37.200 That I haven't done.

00:04:39.000 So, but the question I want to ask is, who is Roger Stone?

00:04:42.420 So, for example, if I was in high, I mean, I know the stories about in high school when, you know, you were looking at the election and John F. Kennedy was running.

00:04:50.560 And, you know, you're looking at the two and you're going out there saying, you know, I think they're going to make school day on Saturday.

00:04:55.460 And you already knew how to get people to be convinced on different sides.

00:04:59.100 But if I'm in high school with you and you're not 17, 18, I'm talking to the 14-year-old Roger Stone.

00:05:05.400 Who was the 14-year-old Roger Stone?

00:05:07.380 Well, let's see, the 14-year-old Roger Stone was someone who lived in a rural area where there were no children my age within 25 or 30 miles.

00:05:17.920 You know what that means, Patrick?

00:05:19.680 No basketball, no baseball, no football.

00:05:23.120 No team sport becomes available to you.

00:05:25.320 So now you're relegated to sports that you can do by yourself, like long-distance running or weightlifting.

00:05:32.560 It makes you more of a loner, I guess.

00:05:36.320 I'm the oldest of three children.

00:05:38.260 My sisters are much younger than I am.

00:05:40.980 I was the president of my class and the president of the student body in my high school two years in a row, having been elected as a junior and also elected as a senior.

00:05:54.320 Unprecedented.

00:05:55.660 I started studying how to get people to vote the way I wanted them to as a psychological experiment very early.

00:06:03.700 I'm a Roman Catholic.

00:06:05.540 I got all my sacraments in the church.

00:06:08.060 I don't believe every iota of Roman Catholic dogma, but I very recently reaffirmed my belief in Christ.

00:06:17.980 It's helped me enormously get through this ordeal in which the full weight of the federal government is placed on you in an effort to get you to do something dishonest.

00:06:29.620 In my case, testify falsely against the president of the United States.

00:06:34.420 It takes enormous fortitude to refuse.

00:06:37.060 They hold out a path that would take all the pressure off of you, that would relieve all your personal and financial and family stress.

00:06:47.520 And I simply said no.

00:06:49.320 And I had to pray to God for support in that decision.

00:06:53.080 I realize this is not a religious program and I'm not trying to proselytize, but I am trying to answer your question about who I am.

00:07:01.040 I'm a father, I'm a grandfather, I'm a great grandfather.

00:07:05.680 I found great solace in the support of my family during this entire ordeal.

00:07:11.180 My wife, Nadia, who's suffering from rheumatoid arthritis, has completely supported my decision to plead not guilty, to not roll over on the president, even though she knows our path might have been easier had we done so.

00:07:27.480 She's been behind me 100 percent and she suffered through the late nights of anxiety and the panic attacks and the other things that people don't see.

00:07:38.840 But I'll never quit fighting.

00:07:40.380 I'm not a quitter.

00:07:41.220 People ask me about my reverence for Richard Nixon, who I met as a very young man and who was really my mentor in American politics.

00:07:51.420 Now, there is no question that Nixon made some egregious mistakes, but he also accomplished some very great things.

00:07:58.380 He was a peacemaker.

00:07:59.660 He got a strategic arms limitation agreement with the Soviets, opened the door to China, ended the war in Vietnam, desegregated the public schools, saved Israel in the 1973 Yom Kippur War.

00:08:13.680 Many great accomplishments.

00:08:15.560 But that's not really why I revere him.

00:08:18.720 I revere him because he was indestructible, because he got knocked down again and again and again.

00:08:24.940 And as I think it was Vince Lombardi who said, it's not how many times you get knocked down, it's how many times you get up.

00:08:31.660 The story of Nixon is a story of resilience.

00:08:34.820 It's a story of persistence.

00:08:36.560 It's an American story.

00:08:38.120 And that's why I have a tattoo of him on my back.

00:08:40.620 It's not a political statement.

00:08:41.960 It's not a joke.

00:08:43.120 It's a daily reminder that in life, particularly when your hand did nothing, that you have to just keep fighting for what you believe in.

00:08:50.860 So the question back in high school is, were you the guy bullying or were you the guy that was bullied?

00:08:58.480 Which one were you?

00:08:59.320 I was more of the guy who was bullied because I had no aptitude for sports.

00:09:04.580 I wasn't among the jock set.

00:09:07.940 And because I wasn't a pothead, I wasn't among the hippie contingent, which was just on the rise when I was in high school.

00:09:17.480 So I had to appeal to both groups for votes.

00:09:21.720 And, you know, I had a pretty successful high school political career.

00:09:26.920 It's interesting that the New Yorker magazine wrote a long piece about my high school years, never once bothering to interview me.

00:09:35.840 I won my election as a student body president, 981 to 61.

00:09:44.580 But somehow the people at the New Yorker managed to find the 61 people.

00:09:48.700 They couldn't find the 981 that voted for me.

00:09:51.840 So you were the one that was bullied.

00:09:53.560 I think so.

00:09:54.400 Yeah.

00:09:54.580 I mean, you know, I had I would be tormented on the school bus because I was carrying political books and interested in topics that no one else cared about.

00:10:05.140 The 1968 election took place when I was in high school and I was a very big supporter of the comeback of Richard Nixon.

00:10:13.680 Nobody else in my class cared about the election.

00:10:16.680 They were all interested in sports or girls or cars or all these other things.

00:10:22.320 But I was interested in politics.

00:10:24.740 You know, for somebody to take it to the levels that you took it where you don't take.

00:10:30.640 I mean, one of your rules is your 10 rules is what you're saying?

00:10:34.160 The fact that, you know, attack, attack, attack, never defend, you know, always be on the offensive.

00:10:40.160 You know, all these things that you talk about with your 10 rules.

00:10:42.380 We'll get into that here in a minute is for somebody to be that shippy and to have that kind of a drive to go beat the opponent, whatever it takes in a most creative way.

00:10:55.220 There has to there has to be an event that really moved you as an individual.

00:11:00.340 Was it an event that really pissed you off and you said, I'm going to prove a point? 0.98

00:11:04.300 Was there a woman that left you public humiliation, a loss, an ass whooping? 0.98

00:11:08.480 Was there anything like that that happened that created the fire in you or was it just this is how you were born from day one?

00:11:16.200 Well, I guess I had some resentment of the fact that my parents didn't they didn't make it through high school.

00:11:25.160 They were very hardworking religious people.

00:11:29.520 We were lower middle class, not upper middle class.

00:11:33.740 I saw the privileged kids in my school whose parents gave them clothes and cars and nice vacations.

00:11:42.840 So, yeah, I had some resentment and that resentment drives you, drives you to succeed.

00:11:49.260 It drives you to demonstrate that you are as good or as better.

00:11:53.560 It means you have to work harder, means you have to be more dedicated.

00:11:57.680 But we did that. You know, my father was a well digger.

00:12:02.560 That's what he did for a living.

00:12:04.100 He and his brother ran a company where it was a rural area.

00:12:10.400 So if you owned a home, you had to drill your own artesian well and put in your own pumping system if you wanted to have drinking water or water to bathe with or cook with.

00:12:20.160 And he ran an old fashioned chop drill where essentially a metal bit hits the ground over and over and over again.

00:12:28.700 He would leave for work every morning about six by 36.

00:12:33.460 He would come home at the end of the day around six, completely covered with mud, just caked with mud.

00:12:40.300 My mother would hose him down in the backyard and she would serve him dinner.

00:12:44.380 And then he would go to bed and he would wake up the next morning and do the exact same thing every day, six days a week.

00:12:52.240 Sunday, we went to church and he took the afternoon off.

00:12:55.980 You know, Patrick, I never heard him complain.

00:12:58.000 Not once did I hear him complain.

00:13:00.480 But I can tell you this.

00:13:02.280 When I introduced him to Ronald Reagan in Norwalk, Connecticut and said, Governor Reagan, this is my dad.

00:13:08.060 I could not have seen my father be prouder of me and everything I had accomplished.

00:13:12.700 In his own way, he was a great man, a simple man, a man who believed deeply in his Catholic faith, a man who believed very much in thrift and hard work, but a man who gave everything so that his children could be educated and have a better life.

00:13:28.200 That's very interesting when you're telling that story about where you were at.

00:13:31.780 So now, privileged kids.

00:13:33.500 So you're growing up around privileged kids.

00:13:35.140 Typically, when somebody is raised around privileged kids and you experience some of that anger, my dad worked at a 99 cent store.

00:13:42.860 So I relate the fact that, you know, when your dad works at a 99 cent store in Inglewood, your parents get a divorce.

00:13:48.120 You kind of got a little bit of a chip on your shoulder.

00:13:50.520 But typically, when you're around others that are privileged, wouldn't you become a Democrat instead of a Republican?

00:13:57.160 What caused you to want to become a Republican over being a Democrat?

00:13:59.880 When I was 11 years old, just before I turned 12, the woman who lived next door to us, who was wealthier than we were, but a very nice lady, gave me a copy of a book called Conscience of a Conservative by Barry Goldwater.

00:14:18.540 And until that time, I had aspired to be an actor.

00:14:22.740 What I wanted to be was an actor.

00:14:24.980 And my parents, of course, kept saying, no, son, you need to learn a trade.

00:14:29.980 You should be a plumber or an electrician or, you know, or a carpenter.

00:14:34.040 Those people make really good money.

00:14:36.400 And I said, no, I want to be an actor.

00:14:38.620 I want to be on Broadway.

00:14:39.700 I want to be in films.

00:14:40.700 I want to be on television.

00:14:42.640 They realized that had I tried that, I would have starved to death.

00:14:45.840 But once I read this book, I was, I was transfixed.

00:14:51.140 I now knew exactly what I believed in.

00:14:53.280 It was the first time I'd seen anybody codify the things that I felt that we needed a strong national defense, that we needed to limit the size and cost of government, that we needed maximum personal freedom, that communism was inherently evil.

00:15:08.900 And that it was a real danger to our society, that this was the greatest country on the face of the planet, and that the people who founded it had undergone extraordinary hardships to build the union that we enjoy today.

00:15:24.820 And I knew at that point that I wanted to be in politics.

00:15:28.500 There was a brief period of time when I thought about being a candidate, but I'm really not the extrovert that I try hard to be.

00:15:38.520 I'm actually somewhat more introverted, and therefore I became more interested in the mechanics of politics, of the back room of politics, of how to get people to, you know, to legitimately, of course, vote the way you want them to.

00:15:53.180 The use of sophisticated polling data and advertising techniques and messaging and that end of politics.

00:16:02.880 And then I figured out that politics was really show business for ugly people. 1.00

00:16:08.300 And I never looked back. 0.98

00:16:11.360 Show business for ugly people.

00:16:13.600 By the way, you talked about earlier when you were talking about Trump, you mentioned the fact that insiders and outsiders, and you said, here's a Trump that's coming up from an outsider wanting to compete with a bunch of insiders.

00:16:28.020 But he got somebody like you to help him out.

00:16:31.000 Wouldn't you be like the capital insider to get?

00:16:34.340 Because if there's anybody that's an insider, it's you.

00:16:37.060 Wouldn't that be the case when he hired you?

00:16:39.980 I don't think so.

00:16:41.060 I mean, first of all, I think we have to have the context.

00:16:43.880 I met Donald Trump when I was working for Governor Ronald Reagan in 1979, preparing for the 1980 election.

00:16:53.500 I was assigned New York State, as well as New Jersey and Connecticut.

00:16:58.900 For Ronald Reagan in 1980, those were very tough states.

00:17:03.840 The rap on Reagan was, you know, he's another goldwater.

00:17:06.860 He's an extremist.

00:17:07.800 The party would get decimated if we nominated him.

00:17:11.720 We need someone more moderate or maybe even someone more liberal.

00:17:15.520 The Republican establishment in New York State was supporting George H.W. Bush, a guy who couldn't figure out whether he was from Connecticut or Texas.

00:17:24.520 The cowboy boots and the pork rinds didn't fool anybody.

00:17:28.000 He grew up in Greenwich, dude.

00:17:29.380 Be who you are.

00:17:30.580 I worked for Tom Kane, the governor of New Jersey.

00:17:32.640 He was the ultimate wasp.

00:17:34.820 He had a strange accent. 0.78

00:17:36.500 He had strange mannerisms.

00:17:38.280 But he never tried to be something he wasn't.

00:17:40.740 And people loved him because he was genuine.

00:17:43.240 We've elected patricians in this country. 0.95

00:17:46.120 The working people voted for Franklin Roosevelt.

00:17:48.560 How more patrician could you get?

00:17:50.520 It's the politician who tries to be something they're not that the voters can see through immediately.

00:17:56.420 This is what I love so much about Trump.

00:17:58.340 What you see is what you get.

00:18:00.980 He's unscripted.

00:18:02.240 He's unmanaged.

00:18:03.860 He is he is unhandled.

00:18:05.580 He is uncontrolled.

00:18:07.060 He owes nobody.

00:18:08.800 He got to the presidency owing nobody.

00:18:11.320 No special interest.

00:18:12.680 Not Wall Street, not the banks, not the insurance companies, not the defense industry.

00:18:17.060 He got to the White House owing only the American people.

00:18:21.080 And therefore, he's completely unrestrained in what he can do.

00:18:24.340 He owes no special interest.

00:18:25.840 And he's extraordinarily independent.

00:18:29.060 I mean, no one tells him what to think, what to say, where to go, who to appoint, what to do.

00:18:35.920 And I think the American people find that refreshing.

00:18:39.160 He's also not politically correct.

00:18:41.020 So he may not be eloquent, but he's always articulate.

00:18:44.640 You always know exactly where he stands, which is why as early as 1988, I began thinking of him as a presidential candidate.

00:18:54.180 I was right in my assumption that over time that the country would tire of career politicians from both parties who promised great things at election time and then never deliver them.

00:19:09.160 We had Clinton, Bush, Obama.

00:19:14.120 They were all going to withdraw our troops from Afghanistan and Syria and Iraq.

00:19:18.960 And they're still there.

00:19:20.220 You know, it's like changing the pins on the soiled diaper of a baby, but leaving the diapers in place.

00:19:31.480 Nothing really changes.

00:19:33.320 The rhetoric at election time, say, between Romney and Obama, they tried very hard to sound different.

00:19:40.060 But when you get right down to it, other than maybe in the area of tax policy, what they were offering you was exactly the same.

00:19:48.280 I knew with Donald Trump, it would be different, that he wanted to take the country in a completely different direction.

00:19:55.280 And I know this because I've known him for 40 years.

00:20:00.300 He didn't run because he needed to be president.

00:20:03.220 He didn't run because he wanted the pomp and circumstance or the prestige or the name ID or the beautiful house or the great plane.

00:20:12.200 He ran because he saw the country being run into the ditch and he got tired of it.

00:20:17.860 The one thing in business that he hates more than anything else is waste and being taken advantage of.

00:20:25.000 And he saw America wasting money and being taken advantage of around the globe.

00:20:30.760 And the point finally came where he had to do something for us, for his country, not for himself.

00:20:37.400 He's lost billions in this job.

00:20:40.440 And he has to suffer the daily vituperation and the tsunami of hate and false accusations against him and his family every single day,

00:20:49.240 which would fell a lesser man, but who just gets right back up and gets right back in their face and keeps fighting.

00:20:57.000 So he's a person of enormous courage.

00:21:00.220 He's also, and I can tell you this firsthand, I worked for Richard Nixon.

00:21:05.180 I worked for Senator Bob Dole, who, by the way, is a great American patriot.

00:21:09.260 They're both very tough guys.

00:21:12.220 But Donald Trump is tougher than either one of them.

00:21:14.960 He's actually the toughest individual I've ever dealt with.

00:21:17.520 When he believes in something, when he sets his mind on something, he will, there is no limit to his drive to accomplish it.

00:21:26.940 Who comes second to his level of drive that you work with?

00:21:29.920 You work with a lot of different personalities.

00:21:32.080 Bob Dole, Nixon, Reagan, Kemp.

00:21:34.820 The list is a long list.

00:21:35.940 Who comes close to him?

00:21:37.260 Well, it's very hard.

00:21:38.480 I think my answer might surprise you.

00:21:40.900 Senator Arlen Spector.

00:21:42.440 You know why?

00:21:43.020 Because he lost a race for mayor, district attorney, governor, and U.S. Senate before he finally won a race for the U.S. Senate.

00:21:52.680 That's drive. 0.99

00:21:54.120 That's drive. 0.99

00:21:54.820 So would you consider yourself almost, just to kind of get an idea, and I'm not talking about the lobbying side of it, we'll get to that here in a minute, but do you see yourself somebody as, like in Hollywood, there's a manager that has talent that they represent, or in the NBA, NFL, there's agents and managers that represent a certain talent.

00:22:13.420 Are you somebody that you sit there and you actually look at people and say, that guy can be a president one day.

00:22:19.020 That guy has what it takes.

00:22:20.320 I think she's got it.

00:22:21.600 I think he's got it.

00:22:22.460 Is that how you look at people when you see talent?

00:22:25.440 I think that's true.

00:22:26.780 Yes.

00:22:27.020 I think I can assess political talent, which, you know, is a combination in the television age, in the mass media age of charisma, of ability to communicate, the ability to talk, as you know, in short, understandable sound bites.

00:22:45.080 It's the most dangerous thing in politics is not being wrong.

00:22:50.100 The most dangerous thing in politics is being boring.

00:22:52.520 When a candidate for public office is boring, when they really have nothing to say, when they play it safe and they just keep producing platitudes for the American people, voters view politics like they view entertainment.

00:23:09.680 Boy, this show is boring.

00:23:10.900 I think I'll turn the channel.

00:23:12.480 They turn you off and they start to look elsewhere.

00:23:14.360 There's nothing more dangerous in politics than trying to ride out the clock when you're in an election going into the homestretch and you're ahead by, say, five points.

00:23:25.600 And therefore, you decide in the closing days to say nothing controversial, to not rock the boat.

00:23:31.140 When you're sitting still in politics, you're losing.

00:23:34.180 You're only gaining when you are moving.

00:23:36.660 And moving means taking risks, expressing ideas, being out there on the cutting edge, and entertaining the voters and engaging them in a way in which they see something interesting in your candidacy.

00:23:51.200 So are you saying if Romney would have hired you, he would have been president?

00:23:55.340 Well, that guy was so phony, I'm not sure even I could have elected him.

00:23:59.220 I mean, he was in three debates and he was three different guys three different times.

00:24:02.800 As I said earlier, the voters can spot a phony a mile away.

00:24:08.000 A guy who says, I'm severely conservative, no conservative would ever describe themselves that way.

00:24:16.960 Mitt was not a conservative.

00:24:18.280 Mitt didn't even become a Republican until he decided to run for the U.S. Senate against Ted Kennedy.

00:24:25.380 And in that race, he ran to Kennedy's left on everything.

00:24:30.160 Again, you wouldn't think there'd be any room to Ted Kennedy's left.

00:24:34.660 Then he came back to run for governor and he ran again as a liberal Republican.

00:24:41.980 And then when he decided he wanted to become president, he started calling himself a conservative.

00:24:48.680 But there's a long family tradition here.

00:24:51.800 Recognize his father, Governor George Romney of Michigan.

00:24:54.840 He knifed Barry Goldwater in the back, just the same way Mitt Romney knifed Donald Trump in the back.

00:25:01.660 People need to understand the background here.

00:25:04.620 Romney decided to run for the U.S. Senate in Utah, a state that he does not live in.

00:25:09.780 I think he owns property there, but he lives in Massachusetts, or he did then.

00:25:13.860 Sure, there's a long Romney family tradition in Utah.

00:25:17.320 But the state treasurer, a Republican, a Trump supporter, very popular, he wanted to run for the Senate.

00:25:24.920 So Mitt Romney prevailed on President Trump to muscle the state treasurer out of the race and endorse Mitt Romney for the Senate.

00:25:33.600 All of which the president did in a gesture of peacemaking, for which Mitt Romney turned around and stabbed him right in the back.

00:25:43.880 At two, Mitt.

00:25:45.400 I remember that when that took place, by the way.

00:25:47.260 So just out of curiosity, would you compare a Romney and the way he campaigned to how Kerry campaigned, what, two decades ago?

00:25:56.920 Kind of some of their challenges, because there was a little bit of the flip-flopping and whatever I could say to win an audience over.

00:26:01.380 Well, the problem, of course, is that neither one of them could relate to the common man.

00:26:06.640 I mean, the great thing about Trump is, while he may be a billionaire, he can relate to the common person.

00:26:13.500 He can relate to the cab driver and the bricklayer and the waitress in the diner, because he speaks colloquial English.

00:26:22.180 He talks the way people talk.

00:26:23.960 I mean, there's a famous story about John Kerry going into a Boston bar and saying, around for the house.

00:26:32.440 And, of course, all the working men cheer.

00:26:34.380 And then he says, and I'll have a cabossier and a snifter.

00:26:38.040 It's a perfect example of the elitism of both Mitt Romney.

00:26:43.120 I mean, Mitt Romney never had the same hair color in any of the debates.

00:26:46.500 There's just nothing genuine about him.

00:26:49.020 He's a guy reading a script written by other people, whereas Donald Trump doesn't have a script.

00:26:56.080 There's no 28-year-old speechwriter somewhere saying, here, Mr. President, here are your talking points.

00:27:02.220 It's not how it works with Donald Trump.

00:27:04.300 That's because he's not a politician.

00:27:07.900 He's the leader of a political movement, but he's not a politician.

00:27:12.860 He never really aspired to be a U.S. senator.

00:27:15.880 He toyed with running for governor, and fortunately, he became convinced that Albany was too small for him, which it was.

00:27:23.680 His destiny was to be right where he is.

00:27:26.840 I think he was the right man at the right time to stop this country from hurtling over the cliff to globalism.

00:27:32.880 I think he's not only was he the only, was he the Republican who could beat Hillary Clinton, he was actually the only Republican who could beat Hillary Clinton.

00:27:44.440 Why do I say that?

00:27:45.640 Well, if you look at Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Ohio, in those blue-collar, working-class Democratic precincts, he runs five to seven points ahead of where Mitt Romney ran or where John McCain ran.

00:28:01.860 He could win the votes of working-class Democrat union member voters where they could.

00:28:07.920 Why?

00:28:08.440 Because he's a regular guy.

00:28:10.840 He's not a stiff.

00:28:12.640 And those folks can spot a stiff a mile away.

00:28:15.880 And he's also not a cranky old man like John McCain was.

00:28:19.260 That is, it's so true, the fact that working men, they're around other working men, and their body language is what they're looking at, so they can see when they're looking at certain people on what to vote for and what not to vote for.

00:28:32.160 You know, sometimes you watch the news, and you watch Times, and you watch people's behavior, men's behavior change based on who the president is.

00:28:41.300 When Clinton was president, you saw a lot of people take some of his style.

00:28:45.040 When Obama was president, it was his style.

00:28:46.840 When Bush was president, they took a little bit of his.

00:28:49.260 Reagan, senior, it doesn't matter.

00:28:51.000 Trump, you can go back and forth.

00:28:52.980 In sports, you know, you'll look at someone and you'll say, you build a team around what position?

00:28:58.780 In basketball, it changes sometimes.

00:29:00.400 First, you need a center.

00:29:01.300 Well, today's not been a center league.

00:29:02.600 It's been a more shooting guard league.

00:29:04.320 Or you need a point guard, all this other stuff.

00:29:06.860 When you look at talent, they don't look the same.

00:29:10.400 They don't talk the same.

00:29:11.500 Reagan talks very different than Trump.

00:29:13.280 Trump talks very different than Obama.

00:29:15.140 Obama talks different than Bush.

00:29:17.300 Bush, senior.

00:29:17.960 You know, JFK, Nixon.

00:29:20.320 You go and look at a lot of these candidates.

00:29:22.420 What are some, no matter what you need, for somebody to have the goodies to become the president of the United States?

00:29:27.880 It's a very hard thing to put your finger on.

00:29:32.280 But in this age of mass communication, in the age of television, whether it's really now cable or satellite or broadcast TV, I think there's a certain charisma, a certain magnetism, a certain size.

00:29:48.540 I don't mean physical size, although Donald Trump is very tall and very broad-shouldered.

00:29:52.660 But in 1988, the first time I tried to convince Donald Trump to run for president, and he was, shall we say, mildly amused by my idea, I arranged for him to speak to the Chamber of Commerce in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, a couple months before the New Hampshire primary.

00:30:13.700 And we took his black helicopter from New Hampshire.

00:30:19.700 There were more people there to watch the helicopter landing than who'd shown up for Vice President George Bush at the same location about two weeks previously.

00:30:30.520 I think it was the Chamber of Commerce.

00:30:32.420 Lunch was sold out, so they had to set up speakers in outer rooms so more people could hear the speech.

00:30:39.400 It was the largest crowd they'd ever had.

00:30:42.000 And what did he talk about?

00:30:45.360 Why are we getting ripped off by our allies in NATO?

00:30:49.040 Why are we paying a disproportionate share for their defense?

00:30:53.120 I could understand it after World War II when they were economically decimated and we were wealthy, but now our economy is struggling and they're wealthy.

00:31:02.680 Why aren't they paying their fair share?

00:31:04.840 If I were president, and I'm not running for president, folks, but if I were president, I'd make them pay their fair share.

00:31:10.760 And this is pre-NAFTA.

00:31:12.880 What about these trade deals?

00:31:14.600 We are getting ripped off.

00:31:16.280 They're really good for our trading partners, but they move all the jobs abroad.

00:31:19.980 This is 1988, an amazing consistency.

00:31:24.000 But more importantly, I saw the electricity of the crowd.

00:31:28.280 I saw the way they reacted.

00:31:30.140 They were stomping, waving their napkins.

00:31:33.360 I mean, there was an energy in the room that you rarely see in politics, and this wasn't even technically a political speech.

00:31:41.960 And I realized then that my instinct was correct, that Donald Trump could be president if a time would come that he wanted to be.

00:31:50.560 But 1988, he still had real estate mountains to climb.

00:31:55.240 He still had real estate projects he had not yet accomplished.

00:31:59.040 The time was not right with the American people.

00:32:02.560 They were still electing career politicians, expecting something different, but getting exactly the same thing.

00:32:09.740 I wanted him to run again in 2000.

00:32:12.000 The late Ross Perot, very well known there where you are in Dallas, and then governor of Minnesota, Jesse Ventura, who had a relationship with Donald Trump from his days wrestling at the Trump Casino, at the Trump Plaza in Atlantic City, urged him to run.

00:32:32.280 To give the president all deference, I think, you know, he would tell you today, well, that was more Roger's idea than mine.

00:32:42.360 I did my best to convince him.

00:32:44.060 We made some exploratory efforts.

00:32:46.080 He spent some money on polling.

00:32:47.840 But he ultimately concluded correctly that one had to be either a Republican or a Democrat to be elected president, that the mechanism did not really exist for the election of a third party or an independent candidate, that you could not get into the national debates either by lawsuit or any other reasonable way.

00:33:10.400 It's really a closed job and that he would have to be either a Republican or a Democrat if he ever ran.

00:33:17.760 Then for two years, he would just needle me and say, you know, I think I'll run as a Democrat just just because he knew I would I would go insane.

00:33:25.260 But it was a joke between us.

00:33:27.520 And he is his parents were both who I knew very well.

00:33:30.940 Great people, great people.

00:33:33.240 They were both hardcore Goldwater Republicans, Reagan Republicans.

00:33:37.460 Donald was a registered Republican his whole life until he briefly shifted to the Independence Party in New York, which was the affiliate of the Reform Party, so that he would be technically eligible to run for the Reform nomination in 2000.

00:33:55.540 The day after he decided not to run, he switched back to the Republican Party and he was on the Ronald Reagan Finance Committee for New York State.

00:34:04.060 That's how we met and how we became friends.

00:34:07.980 So he has actually always politically been there.

00:34:11.120 I remember when he was running for president and many conservatives kept saying he's not a real conservative.

00:34:16.720 Really, look at these judicial appointments.

00:34:19.220 Look at these tax cuts.

00:34:20.780 Look at these regulatory cuts.

00:34:23.220 Look at the way he's rebuilt our military strength.

00:34:26.200 I think his credentials have been more than proven.

00:34:29.000 So, you know, when you're talking about President Trump, the Chamber of Commerce event that you set up, that he went up and he started talking about all these different things, it almost reminds me of the story of how Reagan, when he got hired by GE, I'm sure you've read this or you know about this, where he would go around giving speeches.

00:34:44.720 They were paying him a million dollar year income and he was supposed to talk about how special of a company GE is.

00:34:48.860 And he couldn't help himself from talking about politics.

00:34:51.960 And eventually they had to let him go because it was too much politics and it wasn't enough about what GE stood for.

00:34:58.480 And a kind of a, it was, you know, frustrating GE.

00:35:02.300 Do you think a part of, again, I'm going back to seeing the foundation of somebody that you look at to say this person's got what it takes to one day go run for it.

00:35:11.020 Do you think it's a person that goes out there and does something where eventually they can become a president?

00:35:17.520 If you look at a Nixon, he got the job done, became a president.

00:35:20.460 If you look at a Reagan, if you look at a Bush, if you look at a Trump, each one of them had a different thing that led them to become a president.

00:35:28.480 What would you say was each one of their strengths that helped them become a president?

00:35:32.360 Well, I think in Donald Trump's case, there's a couple of things.

00:35:35.160 One, he had built a successful multibillion dollar business.

00:35:38.880 Number two, largely because of The Apprentice, everybody in America knew who Donald Trump was.

00:35:46.660 The greatest challenge for a presidential candidate, let's take Marco Rubio, for example.

00:35:52.080 Yeah.

00:35:52.560 I live in Florida. I know who he is.

00:35:54.900 But let's go out on the street outside your studio and ask the first seven people we see who Marco Rubio is.

00:36:00.620 And they're going to tell you they have no idea.

00:36:02.920 So in the stages of a presidential campaign, normally speaking, step one is to become well-known.

00:36:10.160 You can't tell people what you stand for if they don't even know who you are.

00:36:14.060 Donald Trump had the ability to completely not have to go through that because from day one, people knew he was the most successful entrepreneur in the country, if not the world.

00:36:26.280 So he already had a brand. He'd worked very hard to build that brand.

00:36:32.340 Trump stood for success. Trump stood for quality.

00:36:37.740 Trump stood for victory. Trump stood for integrity.

00:36:41.980 In the real estate industry, everybody understood that a Trump building would be first class, that everything would be top of the line, whether it's the marble or the glass or the chrome or the design.

00:36:57.040 It would always be the best.

00:36:59.060 And even in the later years, when he would he would franchise his name, those agreements allowed him to control the quality of what was being built so that his name would never go on anything that was substandard, even if he owned a minority piece of it.

00:37:17.980 I think that was a very smart business thing because he did not want to dilute the brand name, which stood for quality.

00:37:26.060 The the stature of having that high name ID, the courage to say exactly what you think, not to be a politician who sticks a wet finger in the wind to find out which way the wind is blowing in order to say things that will be popular.

00:37:47.000 What can I say that will be popular as opposed to Donald Trump, who says, I'm just going to tell you what I think.

00:37:53.040 And voters, I think, found that refreshing.

00:37:57.740 Trump was interested.

00:37:59.560 People know he's unscripted.

00:38:01.220 They know you never know what he might say.

00:38:03.300 Let's tune in.

00:38:04.000 This could be interesting.

00:38:05.420 Whereas all these other candidates, particularly Hillary Clinton, everybody knew that every word coming out of her mouth had been polled and roundtabled and focus grouped and studied.

00:38:16.880 It was completely phony.

00:38:18.980 That was also, I think, in some cases, mistaken when you denigrate your opponent's supporters as deplorables.

00:38:28.660 And by the way, that was no mistake.

00:38:30.280 That was a planned insult.

00:38:33.040 You are alienating people who might under some circumstance consider voting for you.

00:38:38.620 You can attack your opponent, but why would you attack the people voting for your opponent?

00:38:44.160 So that was Trump.

00:38:45.260 How about the other candidates that you work with?

00:38:47.100 Nixon, Bush, Reagan.

00:38:48.380 What was their MO that helped them become president?

00:38:51.800 Reagan is, you know, it's interesting because Donald Trump has some of the qualities of each of them.

00:38:57.860 Like Ronald Reagan, Reagan was a big picture guy.

00:39:02.240 Reagan was more than happy to leave the details of governing to his appointees.

00:39:07.760 He focused on the big picture, whether it was no tax increases, whether it was rebuilding the military, whether it was taking a hard line against the Soviets.

00:39:18.260 Remember, he inherited detente.

00:39:19.960 And the underlying premise of detente under Richard Nixon and Dr. Kissinger was that we would never beat the Russians in the arms race.

00:39:30.940 And therefore, we had to find a way to coexist with them.

00:39:34.660 The shift to Reagan is very dramatic.

00:39:37.720 Reagan takes a new position.

00:39:39.360 No, we will beat the Soviets and our arms buildup required them to try to compete, which then collapsed their economy and down came the wall. 0.88

00:39:51.000 Reagan was very focused on the big picture.

00:39:54.480 Trump is very much like that, very focused on the big picture.

00:39:58.600 Nixon, however, has, I should say, Trump has Nixon's persistence, Nixon's stubbornness.

00:40:06.240 And I don't mean that in a negative sense.

00:40:08.020 I mean, in the positive sense that when he believes something, when he sets out to achieve something, he won't be deterred.

00:40:17.080 And as I said earlier, Trump has much of Nixon's toughness in terms of, say, Dwight Eisenhower, who I think is really underrated as one of our greatest presidents because of his self-deprecation.

00:40:32.460 In other words, he liked to kind of act like the bumbling old general who didn't really know what he was doing, but he was very smart and very in control of our government.

00:40:42.280 And we had unprecedented peace and prosperity under Dwight Eisenhower.

00:40:48.320 So Trump is shrewd like Eisenhower.

00:40:52.740 He doesn't show all of his cards like Eisenhower.

00:40:55.660 So I think he has many of the same qualities of those I consider our greatest presidents.

00:41:01.860 What would you say on the other side with Obama, with Clinton, and with Jimmy Carter?

00:41:08.300 These are the last three presidents, or even John F. Kennedy.

00:41:10.760 What were their strengths?

00:41:12.560 Well, John F. Kennedy, of course, if he were running today, would have to be a Republican because he was an ardent anti-communist.

00:41:20.220 He wanted to return to either a gold or a silverback dollar.

00:41:23.340 He was worried about an arms race with the Soviets.

00:41:27.820 He wanted to get ahead of the Soviets. 0.80

00:41:29.880 He was a strong national defense.

00:41:33.400 People don't recognize this, but Kennedy won the 1960 election over Nixon by running to Nixon's right.

00:41:40.980 The missile gap.

00:41:42.820 Qui Moi and Matt Su and the Red Chinese menace. 1.00

00:41:45.960 The threat of Castro, only 90 miles off our shore, which he accused the Eisenhower-Nixon administration of not doing enough for.

00:41:57.860 Yeah, I think when Joe McCarthy went in the voting booth, he probably voted for Jack Kennedy, having dated Jack's sister, rather than his Senate colleague, Richard Nixon.

00:42:08.200 So, John Kennedy would have been, had he lived, one of our greatest presidents.

00:42:15.320 Now, one of the great misnomers, of course, is that he did anything for civil rights.

00:42:20.480 He did nothing for civil rights.

00:42:22.480 He talked about it.

00:42:23.940 He campaigned on it.

00:42:25.220 He promised it.

00:42:26.160 But his vice president, Lyndon Johnson, convinced him over and over again that it was too soon to have a voting rights act.

00:42:33.060 It was too soon to have an open housing act.

00:42:35.740 It was too soon to have a, you know, an open, you know, a voter, a voter protection system.

00:42:45.400 And, of course, as soon as Jack Kennedy was murdered, Lyndon Johnson did all those things that he had reserved for himself.

00:42:52.120 Going from a hardcore segregationist who, as Senate president, had killed every single piece of civil rights legislation, other than the 1958 civil rights bill, into which Johnson inserted a poison pill, saying those indicted for civil rights crimes would be tried before state rather than federal juries.

00:43:15.120 Well, no Mississippi or Louisiana or Georgia jury would convict a white man of a crime against a black man in 1960.

00:43:25.440 So Lyndon Johnson, who was a segregationist and a hater his entire life, is now remembered as the civil rights president.

00:43:33.220 How ironic.

00:43:35.640 It is, it is, in the case of the other presidents you mentioned.

00:43:40.460 Obama.

00:43:42.000 Obama had enormous talent.

00:43:44.480 It is very hard to understand how he came from nowhere to somewhere so quickly, how he went from being essentially a complete unknown.

00:43:54.180 Then he gives an electrifying speech at the national convention, which makes him a national candidate.

00:43:59.900 You got to remember the famous conversation recounted in Ted Kennedy's book, where Bill Clinton says to Ted Kennedy, this boy Obama, I don't know, Ted, a few years ago, he'd be carrying our bags and serving our coffee.

00:44:14.480 Interesting.

00:44:15.480 Interesting.

00:44:16.480 You know, I think Obama was very talented in his ability to communicate.

00:44:23.880 My own wife considered voting for him because he was prompting us hope and change.

00:44:28.880 He left us with neither, but very politically talented.

00:44:35.280 Also, very cool in a medium, you know, in a television medium that requires that.

00:44:43.120 Very effective, I think.

00:44:44.520 Jimmy Carter.

00:44:45.520 Jimmy Carter, like Reagan in a way, in over his head, swallowed up immediately by the Washington establishment who really didn't want him to begin with.

00:44:55.240 He won the nomination of the presidency completely based on an outsider strategy, based almost solely on the voters' revulsion over Watergate.

00:45:05.240 But he got swallowed up immediately by Brzezinski and Cy Vance and all of these other establishment figures who essentially destroyed his presidency.

00:45:17.240 He also was extraordinarily indecisive, and I don't think you could see that coming.

00:45:26.240 When things in the country turned down, the economy was weak, we were being humiliated around the world, instead of taking action, he blamed the country.

00:45:36.240 We have a national malaise, you may remember.

00:45:40.240 By the way, he's the only former Democratic president who, when I met, treated me quite well.

00:45:46.240 He was very warm, and I enjoyed the opportunity to talk to him.

00:45:50.240 He was a complete gentleman. 1.00

00:45:52.240 Bill Clinton is a psychopath. 0.99

00:45:55.240 Read my book, The Clintons' War on Women. 1.00

00:45:58.240 He's charming, he's a rogue, he's very convincing, but he is a serial assaulter of women. 0.86

00:46:07.240 It is fully documented. 1.00

00:46:10.240 I really think that he is a functioning psychopath. 0.95

00:46:13.240 Who do you dislike more, himself or LBJ? 0.99

00:46:18.240 Oh, Lyndon Johnson is the personification of evil.

00:46:22.240 If you read my book, The Man Who Killed Kennedy, based against LBJ, which is still a New York Times bestseller, still does quite well. 0.99

00:46:29.240 He was a sadist, he was a crook, he was an alcoholic, he was a pill popper, he was a 0.99

00:46:36.240 womanizer, he enjoyed humiliating his staff. 0.99

00:46:41.240 This is why he would conduct White House meetings while sitting on the toilet, in order to embarrass and humiliate the Kennedy holdover Ivy League aides who were still serving on the White House staff.

00:46:58.240 The purpose of this was not just his crudeness, the purpose was he did it because he could.

00:47:03.240 He did it because he enjoyed the discomfort that it caused others.

00:47:09.240 Anybody who wants to understand the psychopathic nature of Lyndon Johnson merely needs to read my book, The Man Who Killed Kennedy, The Case Against LBJ.

00:47:23.240 I'm not an attorney, but in that book I use eyewitness evidence, fingerprint evidence, deep Texas politics and a lot of insider knowledge.

00:47:33.240 I think to make a compelling case that Lyndon Johnson has the motive, means and opportunity to kill John Kennedy and his actions immediately after the assassination, while I admit they are circumstantial, certainly bolster that case.

00:47:48.240 Roger, when you look at everybody today, both on the left and the right, who do you see as candidates where you say, those three have a shot in the next 20 years to be a president, these three have a shot in the next 20 years to be president?

00:47:59.240 Is there anybody you see?

00:48:01.240 That's a very, very difficult question.

00:48:06.240 There are a few people that I think are potentially promising.

00:48:10.240 You know, it's very early.

00:48:12.240 I like the idea, and some people will scoff, but I don't really care.

00:48:16.240 If the president is reelected, and I think he will be in a very tough contest, then what I would like to see is for him to appoint Donald Trump Jr. as the infrastructure czar.

00:48:30.240 Pay him $1 a year, and let him take on the project of working with the stakeholders, the unions, municipalities, and states to rebuild our infrastructure.

00:48:43.240 This is what Donald Trump Jr. does.

00:48:45.240 He, like his father, is a builder.

00:48:48.240 And if over four years he can prove himself in that job, he's got the family name, he's got the speaking ability, he's got the courage, he'll be the age Jack Kennedy was, he could be president.

00:49:03.240 Now, that's a lot of ifs, but when it comes down to talent and courage, I think he has those things.

00:49:13.240 There are others.

00:49:15.240 You know, if I had to pick the person in the U.S. Senate whose politics most closely resemble mine, I would have to say that would be Senator Rand Paul.

00:49:27.240 Now, in the television age, I think he himself would admit that he is not a candidate built for the television age.

00:49:34.240 He's kind of rumpled and almost looks like a college professor in the way he dresses.

00:49:39.240 He's far more interested in policy and principle than he is, you know, whether his suit is pressed or not.

00:49:46.240 But I like his politics.

00:49:48.240 And had I not been for Donald Trump, who I had certainly an antecedent commitment to, I probably would have voted for Rand Paul as the person I most closely identified with.

00:50:01.240 Someone deeply suspicious of the erosion of our civil liberties and the fact that the government's spying on us.

00:50:08.240 It's keeping metadata information on our emails, on our phone calls, on our text messages.

00:50:15.240 Now they're tracking us through our cell phones to see if we're exposed to the virus, or is that really the reason they're tracking us?

00:50:23.240 You're talking to somebody that the government had under surveillance for three years.

00:50:29.240 They say two years, but the New York Times says three years.

00:50:32.240 I have reason to believe three years is correct.

00:50:35.240 So they gave me the full legal proctological examination.

00:50:40.240 And as you know, for almost two years, CNN and MSNBC and the New York Times and the Washington Post and the rest of the fake news media said,

00:50:51.240 Roger Stone will be charged with treason.

00:50:54.240 Roger Stone will be charged with conspiracy against the United States.

00:50:58.240 Roger Stone will prove to be the link between Russia and the Trump campaign.

00:51:02.240 Roger Stone will be charged with mail fraud, wire fraud, aiding and betting a felony before the fact, cyber crimes, including unauthorized access to a protected computer, receipt and dissemination of stolen data.

00:51:17.240 And after examining every corner of my life, my family life, my social life, my personal life, my political life, my business life, they could find no evidence of any of those things,

00:51:31.240 which means they lied to several federal judges to get the warrants to violate my Fourth Amendment rights.

00:51:39.240 So I'm very concerned about this big government intrusion into the privacy rights of the average American.

00:51:51.240 What happened to me, where in the flash of an eye, you can lose your voice, your ability to make a living, your home, your insurance, your savings in the blink of an eye.

00:52:08.240 If it can happen to me, believe me, Patrick, it can happen to you or any other American.

00:52:13.240 I saw a similar thing happen to Bernard Carrick as well when he was going through.

00:52:17.240 Great, man.

00:52:18.240 We've had Bernard Carrick on Valuetainment as well in the past before.

00:52:21.240 It was interesting seeing him go through the process.

00:52:24.240 By the way, from where you're at right now with your indictment, obviously all this stuff is public.

00:52:29.240 Everybody's read about it, seen it.

00:52:31.240 You know, it's not something that hasn't already been addressed.

00:52:34.240 Where are you at with that?

00:52:36.240 How are you feeling about how that's going on so far right now?

00:52:39.240 Well, I think there's a lot of misperceptions about my case for two reasons.

00:52:44.240 One, there was at the time of my trial really pretty much of a media blackout.

00:52:51.240 But the only thing that got a lot of coverage was my conviction.

00:52:54.240 So if you ask the average person what it is that Stone was convicted of, they don't know.

00:52:59.240 A lot of them will tell you, well, Russian collusion, which of course I was charged with lying to Congress,

00:53:04.240 which is kind of laughable because Comey lied to Congress.

00:53:09.240 Brennan lied to Congress.

00:53:10.240 Clapper lied to Congress.

00:53:12.240 Mueller lied to Congress.

00:53:13.240 Rosenstein lied to Congress.

00:53:15.240 McCabe lied to Congress.

00:53:16.240 Page lied to Congress.

00:53:18.240 Strzok lied to Congress.

00:53:19.240 And the list goes on.

00:53:21.240 But the difference is they lied about consequential things that were material.

00:53:26.240 The statements that I made to Congress were completely immaterial.

00:53:30.240 They didn't hide any underlying crime.

00:53:33.240 This was a fabrication of Andrew Weissman, who made the mistake of leaving his initials

00:53:38.240 on the meta tags on my original indictment.

00:53:41.240 Very artful.

00:53:43.240 But I didn't get a fair trial.

00:53:45.240 First of all, the judge eliminated every powerful argument that I could make.

00:53:50.240 I was not allowed to raise the question of the misconduct of the special counsel or the

00:53:55.240 FBI or the Department of Justice or any member of Congress.

00:53:59.240 We now see the FBI misconduct in the Flynn case.

00:54:02.240 I can tell you that even though my case records are sealed and I cannot talk about it, the FBI's

00:54:08.240 conduct in my case is every bit as shocking and egregious, but I was not permitted to raise that.

00:54:14.240 I wasn't permitted to raise the misconduct of the special counsel, the threats that they leveled against my friends,

00:54:22.240 if they wouldn't testify the way they were told to.

00:54:26.240 I was not allowed to argue selective prosecution, despite the fact that Mueller and all these others,

00:54:34.240 Comey, et cetera, had lied to Congress, and I hadn't.

00:54:38.240 I was not permitted to raise that defense.

00:54:42.240 I wasn't permitted to prove, which I could have done with forensic evidence and expert testimony,

00:54:49.240 that nobody hacked the DNC.

00:54:52.240 The DNC was not the subject of an online hack.

00:54:56.240 Now, if you read my indictment, the first five pages are based on that premise,

00:55:01.240 but the judge denied me the right to misprove or disprove the underlying premise of my indictment.

00:55:09.240 So it'd be like going into a prize fight with both hands tied behind your back.

00:55:14.240 And then, of course, as we now know, and then the judge gagged me so that CNN and MSNBC could create a tsunami of disinformation and fake news about me and my case and so on.

00:55:29.240 But I was not permitted to respond as to destroy your ability to make a living and your reputation.

00:55:36.240 And then lastly, we learned after the trial that the jury forewoman had posted on Twitter and Facebook not just attacks on Donald Trump,

00:55:47.240 Trump, which, by the way, alone would not would not disqualify her, but attacks on me personally, starting on the day I was arrested and subsequently and that she hid those during the period of jury selection.

00:56:02.240 I believe she misled the court about them.

00:56:05.240 And therefore, I was not given, as the Supreme Court requires, a jury that was both impartial and indifferent.

00:56:14.240 The only person in the world who thought differently was Judge Jackson in my case, who said the opposite in a decision.

00:56:21.240 I have appealed that decision separately from the conviction and I will win that appeal if I am still alive by the time it's heard.

00:56:33.240 Let's just say you get charged.

00:56:34.240 Let's say hypothetically.

00:56:35.240 I've been charged.

00:56:36.240 I mean, let's just say you have to do the time.

00:56:38.240 Let's just say you're, you know, you're going through the process and President Trump, you know, comes in.

00:56:44.240 Do you think he will pardon you?

00:56:46.240 You know, I really don't know.

00:56:48.240 I can tell you this.

00:56:49.240 I have not been promised a pardon.

00:56:51.240 I have not been assured of a pardon.

00:56:54.240 I have been encouraged by the things that he has said publicly, both on Twitter and on interviews.

00:57:00.240 He knows I did not get a fair trial.

00:57:03.240 He himself said it was a miscarriage of justice.

00:57:07.240 And we now know why I was targeted.

00:57:11.240 They knew by August of 2017 that there was no Russian collusion.

00:57:18.240 So why were they investigating me after that date?

00:57:22.240 The reason is very clear.

00:57:24.240 They came to me or to my lawyers on July 24th of 2019.

00:57:29.240 And they said, it's time for your client to come clean.

00:57:34.240 It's time for your client to confess.

00:57:36.240 Yes, he needs to think hard about the substance of these 29 phone calls between himself and Donald Trump during the 2016 campaign.

00:57:46.240 And when he's ready to tell the truth that they were really about Russia and WikiLeaks, well, then we might be willing to recommend to the judge that he served no jail time.

00:57:56.240 If, on the other hand, he isn't prepared to, their words, re-remember, we may issue a superseding indictment and hit him with more charges.

00:58:09.240 And my answer was quick and easy.

00:58:12.240 I said no.

00:58:14.240 And my lawyer said, you understand how serious this is.

00:58:17.240 They could add, you know, any kind of additional charges.

00:58:21.240 And in this case, no matter how fabricated, you'd probably be convicted.

00:58:25.240 And I said, well, that's the way it is.

00:58:28.240 I was not going to bear false witness against the president.

00:58:31.240 I was not going to be the ham in their ham sandwich for the Mueller report.

00:58:36.240 I was not going to be the the the false testimony on which they based an impeachment and removed somebody that I have not only deep affection for, but I think even today is among our greatest presidents taking on the two party duopoly and the media.

00:58:55.240 It's not easy to be Donald Trump, but his faith hasn't wavered.

00:59:00.240 The hand of God is on him, let me assure you.

00:59:03.240 He's been put in the right place at the right time for a reason.

00:59:07.240 And I believe that reason will become clear to all of us by the end of his second term.

00:59:13.240 Roger, let's say he doesn't pardon you.

00:59:17.240 What do you do?

00:59:18.240 Are you okay with that?

00:59:19.240 If he doesn't pardon you?

00:59:20.240 Well, I'll have to pray to God for guidance in that case.

00:59:24.240 Okay.

00:59:25.240 A great deal.

00:59:26.240 I would be a political prisoner.

00:59:28.240 Okay.

00:59:29.240 I think people would know that.

00:59:31.240 I think there would be great anger among Trump supporters, not at the president, but because the Justice Department in two cases, the Inspector General of the Department of Justice has recommended the criminal charges of James Comey, but Mr. Comey has not been charged.

00:59:50.240 If at the end of the day, Mr. Clapper, Mr. Brennan, Susan Rice, Samantha Powers, this list goes on and on, Rod Rosenstein.

00:59:59.240 By the way, if lying to Congress is a crime, I watched Rosenstein today.

01:00:04.240 I found 13 things he lied about.

01:00:07.240 So when is he being charged?

01:00:08.240 I just asked that question.

01:00:10.240 I think that many of the president's supporters will be upset about the two-tiered justice in this country.

01:00:17.240 If you are a Democrat and a supporter of Hillary Clinton, you can pull off an abuse of power that is far worse than what we saw in Watergate.

01:00:28.240 I saw this windbag from Illinois, Richard Durbin, today, saying, you know, instead of talking about the danger of this virus or poverty and the fact that our cities are engaged, we're here talking about a rehash.

01:00:42.240 Then I went back and looked at what he had to say about Watergate when he was running for the U.S. Senate in 1972.

01:00:47.240 And it was the worst constitutional crisis in the world.

01:00:50.240 Let's be very clear.

01:00:52.240 In Watergate, there was never any evidence whatsoever that the president of the United States knew about or approved the break-in at the Democratic National Committee.

01:01:03.240 The Democratic National Committee was broken into by a small band of private citizens who were former intelligence operatives but were in private life.

01:01:14.240 And they planted bugs that never worked and never produced anything.

01:01:19.240 In this case, the full authority of the United States government and the Incredible Intelligence Committee's capability for surveillance and the court systems were legitimately used to spy on the Republican candidate for president, the president-elect, and the president of the United States.

01:01:43.240 This makes Watergate look, as the president said the other day, like small potatoes.

01:01:48.240 But to Senator Durbin, it's no big deal.

01:01:51.240 It was a big deal when Nixon did it, although the crimes weren't nearly this egregious, but it's not a big deal today.

01:01:59.240 Please, Senator, go back to Illinois. 0.98

01:02:01.240 You're an embarrassment to the U.S. Senate.

01:02:03.240 By the way, Senator Durbin suggested that I should be called before the committee to testify. 0.89

01:02:08.240 Let me say right now, let's do it.

01:02:10.240 I'm ready.

01:02:11.240 You and I, Durbin, let's go head to head. 0.99

01:02:13.240 I'd be happy to humiliate you. 0.53

01:02:15.240 That would never happen, though.

01:02:17.240 Of course not.

01:02:18.240 They don't want to hear the truth.

01:02:19.240 Or as Jack Nicholson said, they can't handle the truth.

01:02:23.240 What a movie.

01:02:24.240 So, when's the last time you spoke to Trump?

01:02:27.240 Can you actually have conversations with President Trump or not at all?

01:02:31.240 No, because his lawyers will not allow it.

01:02:35.240 My lawyers will not allow it.

01:02:37.240 Got it.

01:02:38.240 So, I have to, like many, I have to read the president's feelings by watching his tweets and his public comments.

01:02:46.240 We have many mutual friends.

01:02:48.240 So, I have every reason to believe that the president still holds me in high regard.

01:02:53.240 Look, I think he understands that I was targeted only because of my loyal support for him.

01:03:02.240 And I was targeted long after they knew there was no Russian collusion to try to come up with some basis to try to impeach him.

01:03:10.240 Roger, with all the fairness.

01:03:11.240 Unlike Michael Cohen, I wouldn't do it.

01:03:14.240 If I may say this, with all the fairness.

01:03:16.240 Somebody may say there's a lot of other people that also sided with him, but they're not indicted.

01:03:20.240 They're not going through what you're going through right now.

01:03:23.240 So, the opposition may say, you know, the argument of saying they don't like the fact that I just sided with them.

01:03:29.240 That's why.

01:03:30.240 No, I think it's closer than that.

01:03:32.240 First of all, I exchanged the 39 calls that they refer to were telephone calls that lasted longer than a half an hour.

01:03:41.240 That is not the total number of telephone calls between Donald Trump and myself during the 2016 campaign.

01:03:47.240 So, therefore, that creates an avenue to, if we can get stoned to say what we want about these phone calls, we've got a witness against Trump, number one.

01:04:01.240 Number two, when I wrote the book, The Clintons War on Women, I think I aggravated the Clintonistas. 1.00

01:04:09.240 The woman who headed my prosecution, Jeanne Rhee, represented the Clinton Foundation and Hillary Clinton in the missing email case.

01:04:20.240 If that isn't a conflict of interest, I don't know what is. 0.76

01:04:24.240 The pompous, bully, corrupt, dirty cop, Aaron Zielinski, who then took over my prosecution, who committed many crimes, which will be a subject of formal complaints to DOJ. 0.96

01:04:38.240 And the bar in Maryland and DC. 0.97

01:04:42.240 This guy was Hillary Clinton's deputy counsel at the State Department.

01:04:47.240 Now, the media keeps describing them as nonpolitical career prosecutors.

01:04:52.240 That is not true.

01:04:53.240 That is not who they are.

01:04:55.240 Jonathan Kravis, the U.S. attorney, assistant U.S. attorney who prosecuted me, he was the deputy counsel in the Obama White House.

01:05:05.240 Abuse of power by him in previous cases is well known.

01:05:09.240 His illegal abuses during the trial of three of Congressman Ron Paul's campaign aides is epic.

01:05:17.240 His defrauding of the court in my case is a matter of public record for which he will ultimately have to answer.

01:05:24.240 They want to fight.

01:05:26.240 We will still fight, even if I have to do so from a prison cell.

01:05:30.240 People who are giving to my legal defense fund at stonedefensefund.com are fueling my efforts to prove the truth.

01:05:39.240 And I must tell you, Patrick, I thank 65,000 Americans who are praying for me, who are praying for my family, who are sending me the money that has sustained this fight, because I have been wiped out.

01:05:53.240 I have nothing.

01:05:54.240 I am literally indigent.

01:05:56.240 I'll tell you what I have.

01:05:57.240 I have the IRS knocking on my door, wanting back taxes at a time that they know I have literally nothing but the clothes on my back.

01:06:05.240 So let's just say President Trump is watching this and he knows there's pressure on him pardoning you, one, on the side of people who support you.

01:06:14.240 And then also on the other side of if he does pardon you, he's going to get a lot of heat known reelections coming up.

01:06:19.240 And maybe Jared Kushner, who is a little bit more of a logical guy who doesn't necessarily have maybe the relationship that you have with Trump since 1988.

01:06:28.240 Maybe Jared whispers and says, this is not a good time to pardon.

01:06:32.240 Maybe let's pardon in December or January or February.

01:06:35.240 If they're watching this, are you okay with the pardoning not taking place anytime soon until 2021?

01:06:41.240 You know, one of the first things I learned in politics from Richard Nixon, don't answer hypothetical questions.

01:06:47.240 Here's what I know.

01:06:49.240 Donald Trump is a person of great fairness.

01:06:52.240 Okay.

01:06:53.240 He's a great, he's a, he's a person of great mercy and he knows what's happened here.

01:06:58.240 But here's what I also know.

01:07:00.240 Nobody tells Donald Trump what to do.

01:07:02.240 Not Roger Stone, not Jerry Kushner, not certainly not Steve Bannon, nobody.

01:07:08.240 And therefore he'll make, I believe that he will make the right decision at the right time.

01:07:13.240 And I pray to God that that will be sooner rather than later.

01:07:17.240 But I'm, you know, I'm not advocating anything other than justice.

01:07:23.240 Cause I think it is abundantly clear.

01:07:26.240 The president has noted several times that I did not get a fair trial.

01:07:31.240 When the jury forewoman is attacking me in 2019, and then she erases those posts to cover her trail. 0.61

01:07:40.240 No reasonable lawyer believes that that is correctly decided.

01:07:44.240 Jonathan Turley is not a conservative or a Republican.

01:07:47.240 He said Stone is entitled to a new trial on that basis.

01:07:51.240 In the Boston Marathon bombing case, the guy convicted got a new trial because one of his jurors was posting on social media on the topic of terrorism.

01:08:02.240 Not even that case, just the topic of terrorism.

01:08:05.240 My juror had not a single Trump supporter, not a single Republican, not a single military veteran, not a single blue collar worker, not a single person with less than a college education, but a majority with post college educations.

01:08:19.240 Three appointees from the Obama and Clinton administrations.

01:08:23.240 Several people who had personal relationships at the Department of Justice or the FBI.

01:08:29.240 It was by no means a jury of my peers.

01:08:33.240 Knowing how he's wired, I wouldn't be surprised if he just decided to pardon you tomorrow, you know, after all the messes going on to have the media go crazy about the fact that you're pardoned.

01:08:46.240 But let's just say he does. If he pardons you, would you agree to get a tattoo of Donald Trump instead of Nixon on your back?

01:08:53.240 You know, I was thinking of doing, Patrick, in all honesty, to do it right.

01:08:57.240 I thought I would add Trump, Goldwater and Buckley to my back to have kind of a Mount Rushmore.

01:09:05.240 Buckley. Wow. Buckley on that list.

01:09:08.240 He's one of a kind. They don't have too many Buckleys nowadays.

01:09:13.240 So that means we should be expecting some new tattoos here soon.

01:09:17.240 They say you can't just get one tattoo on life.

01:09:19.240 Once you start one, there's a bunch that come afterwards.

01:09:21.240 Well, from your mouth to God's ear.

01:09:23.240 Okay, let's talk about a little bit of the dirty politics.

01:09:28.240 All you hear about from the side of the people that are not in the world of politics, dirty politics.

01:09:34.240 And it's very obvious. I mean, you know, you've done some very, very, some would call some nasty tricks, games, manipulation, whatever it may be.

01:09:45.240 You've done some interesting things when it comes on to politics.

01:09:48.240 Who do you think plays dirtier politics, the left or the right, Democrats or Republicans?

01:09:53.240 Well, you know, in 1960, the West Virginia primary became very pivotal for John F. Kennedy.

01:10:02.240 So Robert Kennedy put together a piece of literature attacking Jack Kennedy's Roman Catholicism.

01:10:09.240 He put Hubert Humphrey's disclaimer paid for by Humphrey for president, and he mailed it to every Catholic household.

01:10:15.240 What would you call that? I'd call that a dirty trick. Wouldn't you call that a dirty trick?

01:10:20.240 And then in the Wisconsin primary, he would put out a mailing accusing Hubert Humphrey of being a draft dodger while Jack Kennedy was a war hero.

01:10:33.240 The problem was that Humphrey volunteered for the service and he was turned down for physical reasons.

01:10:38.240 Now, I call that a dirty trick. But I guess I'd say this. They call me a dirty trickster.

01:10:45.240 I don't think I've done anything that's beyond the bounds of my contemporaries.

01:10:49.240 But if I am one, that means I can spot one.

01:10:52.240 And the Russian collusion hoax is the greatest single political dirty trick in American politics.

01:10:59.240 It is the harnessing of the authority of the United States government and the capability of our intelligence agencies to spy on a political opponent.

01:11:08.240 It's the use of the government of the machinery for political purposes.

01:11:13.240 It's sedition. It's treasonous. And it's highly illegal.

01:11:17.240 Would you consider yourself a hyper competitive guy?

01:11:20.240 No question about it. I hate losing. It makes me puke.

01:11:25.240 So would you say anybody in the game is better at the game of politics and the tricks behind marketing, whatever it is, than you? Anybody in the game?

01:11:35.240 Well, I think the problem with politics is it looks easy from the outside.

01:11:41.240 People, I think, don't really recognize that political strategy is a science, that you're not basing anything on your instincts or your feelings or even your own personal beliefs.

01:11:54.240 You base campaign strategy on very sophisticated voter research surveys.

01:12:01.240 That means polling. But the purpose of the polling is, I think, widely misunderstood by the public.

01:12:07.240 It's not to find out who's ahead and who's behind. Those are actually the least important numbers.

01:12:12.240 It's to find out what of your core messages move voters.

01:12:17.240 What information is it that you can communicate to voters that will get them to vote for you and not your opponent or to move from undecided to vote for you?

01:12:28.240 Then the second question you have to answer is, what's the most efficient way to deliver this information?

01:12:35.240 Let me give you an example. Joe Biden makes a great comeback in the Democratic nomination process in South Carolina because he gets an almost monolithic African-American vote.

01:12:47.240 Do those African-American voters realize that Joe Biden is the father of the legislation that has incarcerated more black people for first time nonviolent drug crimes than anybody in history?

01:13:04.240 That the Biden bill, as he used to proudly call it, which mandated the absolutely mandatory harsh penalties for the first time nonviolent crime of possession of tiny amounts of drugs for personal use, is responsible for the mass incarceration at this point of millions of black people who are trapped in our penal system with extraordinarily long

01:13:33.240 long sentences, which has destroyed lives, destroyed families, destroyed without any hope of rehabilitation.

01:13:43.240 And if you're a conservative, it's costing taxpayers millions of dollars to house and feed and incarcerate people who are not a menace to society.

01:13:53.240 People who are not inherently violent. People who haven't been convicted of a violent crime. Joe Biden. He's the father of this. He doesn't recant. He argued with a woman in New Hampshire about how successful this policy has been.

01:14:09.240 The war on drugs was Richard Nixon's biggest single mistake. However, it's Bill Clinton and Joe Biden who turbocharged the war on drugs. Under Nixon, there were not mandatory penalties.

01:14:23.240 A judge could take into consideration if the housewife who's caught with a small amount of marijuana in her purse, but has to work a day and a night job to support three kids should get a different sentence than some gangbanger caught with a quarter ounce of cocaine.

01:14:39.240 But today, a judge doesn't have that discretion, thanks to Joe Biden. Joe Biden, who started his career as an opponent of the desegregation of the Wilmington school system. That Joe Biden. Joe Biden, whose son as attorney general refused to investigate the hangings of black men all over southern Delaware, saying that it wasn't racially motivated when the evidence is to the contrary.

01:15:06.240 So people need to know Joe Biden's real record. Why do I say this? Because I've seen polling and it moves people. Now, let's go to question two. How do you impart that? Urban radio in this country is both inexpensive and has extraordinary reach to African-American voters.

01:15:25.600 In every major swing state, Detroit, Milwaukee, Richmond, Charlotte, Miami, Fort Lauderdale. These voters are not difficult to reach and the message that will get them to see the real Joe Biden.

01:15:41.780 I was very happy to see the president tweet about this today. It is a major and legitimate issue.

01:15:47.800 When Joe Biden says, I've always been a great advocate for civil rights. Number one, he said he marched with Dr. King. That is a lie. He never marched with Dr. King. And he has race baited throughout his career when it benefited him.

01:16:02.180 So let me ask you this question, since you were a Barry Goldwater fan yourself and you read his book on conservatives, is in 1960, 64% of African-Americans voted for the Democratic Party.

01:16:17.940 Again, in 1960, 64% voted for the Democratic Party. Fast forward four years later, 1964, 92% did. That means a lot of African-Americans were conservative at one point, pre-Barry Goldwater.

01:16:32.980 Barry Goldwater somewhat changed that, right? And today we're at 88%.

01:16:38.080 Yes.

01:16:39.400 By the way, I know you're a fan of Barry Goldwater, so I'm curious to know what you say about that. I'm asking this for a reason.

01:16:44.680 Let's take it from a larger context, if we may.

01:16:48.600 Let me finish the question and then I want you to answer. Let me finish the question and see where I'm going with this.

01:16:52.680 The reason why I'm asking this is because do you think what Barry Goldwater did to cause the Republicans to lose the African-American vote from 64%, which means 36% was open to voting Republican, African-Americans, to 92%?

01:17:10.840 Today it's 88%. That's a big number. Charlemagne, God says, you know, Democrats just have the African-American vote, right? 0.95

01:17:18.300 And then you hear Joe Biden say, if you vote for Trump, you're not black.

01:17:22.940 My question for you would be, do you think what Barry Goldwater did to cause the Republicans lose a ton of African-American votes to Democrats,

01:17:32.780 do you think Joe Biden could cause Democrats to lose a lot of votes to Republicans with what he just said?

01:17:41.460 If those voters, if today's black voters get the real information, yes. 0.98

01:17:46.960 Let me put it in a little broader context, if I may.

01:17:50.160 Eisenhower gets about a third of a black vote.

01:17:53.260 In 1932, more black Americans voted for Herbert Hoover than Franklin Roosevelt.

01:17:57.880 The black vote in America was traditionally Republican.

01:18:01.920 Why? Because of the Civil War.

01:18:04.000 The Democratic Party was the party of segregation. 0.50

01:18:06.960 The Republican Party was the party of emancipation.

01:18:10.440 That changed during the New Deal for economic reasons, and a majority of black voters started voting Democratic,

01:18:18.560 but still a solid third of them still voted Republican.

01:18:22.460 In 1960, running against Jack Kennedy, Nixon still retained 32 and a half percent of the African-American vote.

01:18:30.640 Jackie Robinson was campaigning for Richard Nixon in 1960.

01:18:35.120 In 1964, Barry Goldwater, who had personally desegregated the family department stores in Phoenix,

01:18:42.240 and who was a member of the NAACP in Phoenix, opposed the 1964 Civil Rights Act because he said it violated the state's rights,

01:18:52.900 that the states needed to desegregate, not the federal government.

01:18:57.180 Therefore, he was depicted by a monolithic mainstream media as being anti-civil rights,

01:19:03.740 despite his record in Phoenix, which was to the contrary.

01:19:06.900 Now, Richard Nixon bears some responsibility here, because in 1968, you have to remember,

01:19:14.000 he has Humphrey running to his left, and he has George Wallace running to his right.

01:19:19.560 He cannot afford to lose votes to either one of them.

01:19:24.300 So he basically, they all talk about the Southern strategy,

01:19:29.740 that he essentially said civil rights laws need to be applied evenly.

01:19:34.480 Busing in Boston is just as wrong as busing in South Carolina.

01:19:41.260 Racism in the Boston school systems is just as egregious as the racism in the Southern school systems.

01:19:49.260 Now, he gets elected.

01:19:51.380 This is where it becomes important.

01:19:53.520 Richard Nixon desegregated the public schools.

01:19:56.040 At the time he became president, 17% of them were desegregated.

01:20:02.960 Almost 82%, I guess, were still segregated.

01:20:06.820 By the time he left office, that was about 7%.

01:20:10.180 No violence, no bloodshed, desegregation. 0.94

01:20:13.900 Richard Nixon gave us affirmative action.

01:20:16.460 Affirmative action is not a Johnson or a Kennedy policy.

01:20:19.120 Affirmative action is a Nixon policy, giving folks a leg up who had been discriminated against for centuries.

01:20:26.260 I'm the last conservative that still defends affirmative action.

01:20:29.940 Who tripled the funding for black colleges as president?

01:20:33.780 Who appointed more African Americans to public office than LBJ and John Kennedy combined?

01:20:40.020 Richard Nixon.

01:20:40.900 Who increased by 90% the funding for civil rights law enforcement at the Justice Department?

01:20:47.820 Richard Nixon.

01:20:49.400 So I would say the record is more important than the rhetoric.

01:20:54.040 But the rhetoric cost us a majority of the African American vote.

01:20:59.800 Then there was no particular effort made by more recent Republican nominees.

01:21:06.100 McCain, Romney, they offer no strategy for the cities.

01:21:10.180 They offer no strategy for the improvement of lives of black Americans. 1.00

01:21:15.320 And then along comes Donald Trump.

01:21:16.980 And in my opinion, a historic opportunity.

01:21:20.240 You have a growing black and middle class.

01:21:22.700 You had African American and all minority unemployment at the lowest point possible.

01:21:28.940 What do African Americans want? 1.00

01:21:30.920 I have a lot of African American friends.

01:21:32.600 You know what they want?

01:21:33.380 They want the same things I want.

01:21:35.360 They want to live in a safe community.

01:21:38.140 They want good schools for their kids.

01:21:40.440 They want economic opportunity.

01:21:42.340 They don't want to be employees.

01:21:44.280 They want to be employers.

01:21:46.480 They want a piece of the American pie.

01:21:50.240 And I think the juxtaposition of Joe Biden's record of incarcerating black people and Donald Trump's record through the Second Chance Act of freeing people who are unfairly trapped in our penal system for small, nonviolent crimes is a debate I want to have.

01:22:10.160 So let me ask you, based on that, your thoughts with the tragic event that took place with George Floyd and the cop, the Minnesota cop, that led to the riots and protesting.

01:22:22.120 And that goes back to Rodney King, March of 91.

01:22:26.900 I came to the States, November of the 28th of 1990.

01:22:30.480 Exactly four months later, I'm living in L.A.

01:22:32.800 Rodney King's event takes place.

01:22:34.300 And then in 92, the riots take place.

01:22:36.000 We're talking 28 years difference.

01:22:38.020 And we're experiencing similar type of riots, if not worse.

01:22:41.080 What do you think needs to happen for all of this to stop?

01:22:43.960 Well, first of all, I think the penalties against those four cops are not nearly severe enough.

01:22:49.880 Third degree murder?

01:22:50.740 No, uh-uh, much tougher.

01:22:53.940 This cop absolutely knew what he was doing.

01:22:57.920 And the look on his face indicated to me that he was enjoying it.

01:23:01.800 So I'm not satisfied that justice has been visited.

01:23:05.520 The case of the one officer who watched and did nothing, he needs to be prosecuted also.

01:23:12.160 That's terrible, but it's not as bad as the three who actually engaged in what I believe was a murder.

01:23:17.720 So justice hasn't been done there.

01:23:20.480 I don't think the state has brought strong enough charges against those cops.

01:23:25.760 But I also recognize that this event is being used to legitimize anarchy and violence that has nothing to do with the horrific murder of George Floyd.

01:23:38.300 And that, I think, is wrong.

01:23:40.780 I saw Floyd's family today appeal for peace, to appeal to people to abide by the law.

01:23:47.940 I think that was a very courageous thing.

01:23:51.580 Do I deny that there's still racism in our country?

01:23:54.220 No, not whatsoever.

01:23:55.840 And it has to be eradicated.

01:23:57.820 But the best social program in the world is a good, steady job and upward mobility.

01:24:04.720 The best thing we can do is give economic opportunity and equal educational opportunity to all Americans.

01:24:12.620 That's what I think Donald Trump is committed to.

01:24:15.640 And that is what was working until these horrific events, which have the ability to change the entire political calculus.

01:24:25.260 How much do you think the playbook, the Rules for Radicals, the book, Saul Linsky, how much do you think that book is being played out nowadays?

01:24:34.820 Do you think it's just a good book being written or do you think it's actually being put to use today?

01:24:38.900 It's being put to use today.

01:24:40.420 The pallets of bricks just happen to show up.

01:24:42.980 Really?

01:24:43.680 How about the buses to transfer all these people around from out of state?

01:24:47.140 Who's paying for those? 0.89

01:24:48.260 You know, I did a show on a major cable network recently, and I was told by the producer, by the way, there's one name you can't mention.

01:24:59.600 I said, who's that?

01:25:00.720 You can't mention George Soros in any way while you're on, please.

01:25:04.620 Of course, I honored their request because I was their guest.

01:25:07.680 I won't mention the network.

01:25:09.220 But I don't understand that.

01:25:12.320 If somebody is paying for violence, if they are paying people who are advocating the violent assassination of the president on social media platforms, which is a crime,

01:25:24.340 if somebody is paying for these attacks and this violence in our cities, those seem to me to be crimes.

01:25:33.540 And I just wonder where Attorney General Barr and his people are.

01:25:39.660 Remember the great lesson of Watergate?

01:25:41.460 I'm sure you remember it because liberals said it over and over and over again.

01:25:45.640 No person is above the law.

01:25:48.620 No person is above the law.

01:25:50.360 Would that not include Barack Obama and Joe Biden, who had full knowledge of the unconstitutional and seditious effort to remove Donald Trump based on completely fabricated information?

01:26:02.960 It was fun to watch Rod Rosenstein try to run between the raindrops today, but he lied repeatedly about numerous things.

01:26:10.840 What do you expect him, President Obama, to be talking about today?

01:26:13.120 I think he's given a speech for the first time, you know, while, you know, he's not in office.

01:26:18.640 He's given a speech today.

01:26:20.120 What do you expect him to talk about?

01:26:22.300 He'll talk about racial justice, much of which I'll probably agree with. 0.97

01:26:27.460 I hope that he will seek to tamp down violence.

01:26:31.700 Violence is never the answer.

01:26:33.920 But beyond that, I'm not going to suggest what he might do.

01:26:38.040 He's a man of enormous oratorical talent.

01:26:42.860 And I'm sure he'll do a good job.

01:26:45.400 But his message will be, the undercurrent of his message will be a criticism of President Trump.

01:26:51.340 I think you can pretty much guarantee that.

01:26:53.960 You know, we used to have a tradition in this country that former presidents just did not criticize current presidents.

01:27:03.760 Before he took any action in Cuba, Jack Kennedy called Dwight Eisenhower to ask his opinion, for example.

01:27:12.780 And presidents have often consulted with their predecessors.

01:27:17.180 They don't have to.

01:27:18.280 But there was a certain comity.

01:27:20.840 Yesterday, I saw George W. Bush put out, I guess it was a letter, criticizing Donald Trump.

01:27:27.520 This isn't surprising, George W.

01:27:29.360 You and your entire family, who plundered the United States government, voted and endorsed Hillary Clinton.

01:27:35.680 So why should we listen to you about anything?

01:27:38.000 I mean, you've got to also realize that the opposite could be when he was asked, President Trump was asked, have you called Barack Obama to ask advice on anything?

01:27:46.340 He says, no, I don't need to.

01:27:47.260 I don't, I'm fine with what I'm doing.

01:27:48.840 So even President Trump didn't want to make that phone call to Trump.

01:27:52.160 So some may say, Roger, I understand the point you're making with John F. Kennedy calling Ike, but at least even Trump is not calling Obama.

01:27:58.620 No, but Ike hadn't authorized the illegal surveillance of John Kennedy.

01:28:04.860 Then that's a different story.

01:28:05.980 Yeah, so, you know, going back to what you're talking about here, when it comes down to the politics side, you know, and people are going to this politics side, one of the things I'm always curious about when I look from the outside is who are the power players?

01:28:20.180 You know, the whole puppet with some people are controlling it.

01:28:23.020 Is it candidates that are the most powerful people?

01:28:26.260 Is it the money backers?

01:28:27.640 Is it the lobbyists?

01:28:28.720 Is it the media?

01:28:30.000 Is it former presidents?

01:28:31.440 Roger, you've been in this game for a long time.

01:28:33.040 Who are the most powerful people that get to control a lot of the decisions that are being made in politics?

01:28:39.720 Well, there's no question about the extraordinary power of the media.

01:28:44.900 That power continuum shifted in 2016.

01:28:48.400 It's only through the rise of a robust, vibrant, alternative media based in the Internet that Donald Trump is able to communicate around the national networks and around the established corporate-owned media directly to the people and get elected.

01:29:05.040 That's why you see this systematic campaign of censorship on all media platforms, social media platforms of Republicans and conservatives and libertarians and Christians and anyone really who isn't a liberal.

01:29:21.040 It's a violation of the antitrust laws.

01:29:24.200 The lawsuits that have been brought against Twitter and Facebook on First Amendment grounds have not fared well in the courts.

01:29:32.200 But there are solid antitrust issues here.

01:29:35.800 And all Attorney General Barr needs to do is initiate immediate antitrust action against Twitter and tell them,

01:29:44.220 I'm sending marshals to shut your operation down unless you stop.

01:29:48.400 He has that authority.

01:29:50.120 It needs to be used.

01:29:51.280 Does he really have that authority?

01:29:52.420 They're clearly violating antitrust law.

01:29:56.200 They have a monopoly.

01:29:57.440 And they're protecting their monopoly.

01:29:59.480 Who has a monopoly?

01:30:00.060 The tactics that they have used to disadvantage competitors like, say, Gab or Parler or Telegram are easily findable.

01:30:10.500 I sat in the room for the hearings of the House Judiciary Committee on Internet censorship.

01:30:17.200 And I watched the chairman of Google lie to Congress repeatedly under oath, ironically, the crime that I'm charged with.

01:30:28.160 China, he said.

01:30:29.260 I couldn't even find China on a map.

01:30:31.480 I'm not doing any business in China.

01:30:33.180 China, no, our phone app doesn't trace people.

01:30:37.500 These are lies.

01:30:38.700 Why wasn't he charged?

01:30:40.440 This is a game.

01:30:42.420 The censorship of non-Trump supporters is a major issue in 2020.

01:30:48.160 You now see them finally, and I predicted this, beginning to censor or comment on the president's tweets.

01:30:56.820 Relying on the Washington Post to say that there is no ballot fraud in a mail-in election, that's like asking Jack the Ripper to massage your neck. 0.99

01:31:09.540 It's ridiculous. 0.98

01:31:10.980 It's a joke. 0.96

01:31:11.960 Let's be clear.

01:31:13.780 Virtually nothing reported by the Washington Post is either true or accurate.

01:31:19.540 This one reporter, Roz Helderman, is one of the great fiction writers of all time.

01:31:26.200 So nothing written by that newspaper can be relied upon.

01:31:30.860 It's not a news organization.

01:31:32.380 It's a propaganda organ.

01:31:34.880 There's no evidence that outside elements are ginning up these riots.

01:31:40.120 I'm not quoting their headline exactly, but I think it's pretty close.

01:31:43.540 No, that's wrong.

01:31:44.640 That's false.

01:31:45.420 That's not true.

01:31:46.520 That's not news. 0.99

01:31:47.600 That's crap. 0.98

01:31:49.720 Roger, when it comes down to Dennis Prager, are you familiar with Dennis Prager, Prager University? 0.98

01:31:54.680 So you know the whole topic about censorship and YouTube and what's taking place and videos being taken down.

01:31:59.220 I was speaking to them about the fact that what really happened and I pulled up the lawsuit and I read the whole thing where eventually it was dismissed and they didn't really consider it because there's a difference between freedom of speech by the government

01:32:12.800 versus freedom of speech of what you can say on a company private enterprise.

01:32:18.520 They can choose to take whatever they want to take down or whatever they don't want to take down.

01:32:22.100 So if that's the case, can YouTube do or Twitter do or Facebook do anything they want to do?

01:32:27.820 Because Zuck took a different approach where Zuck said, I don't think if Facebook is not in the fact checking business.

01:32:33.520 He said this last week on Fox if you saw that.

01:32:35.520 So what is your opinion on censorship on what YouTube can and can't do?

01:32:40.540 The phone company is a privately owned company, but they're regulated.

01:32:46.300 I mean, if you're serving the public, I think you can be regulated.

01:32:49.480 As a conservative, I don't like regulation, generally speaking.

01:32:53.140 But if that's the only way we can ensure fair access, I believe caveat emptor.

01:32:58.420 Let the consumer decide what he or she believes or what he or she wants to read.

01:33:04.520 I got a message from a guy this morning who simply put up a meme on Instagram that said, pardon Roger Stone.

01:33:12.480 And he was deplatformed like that.

01:33:16.800 I've been on Facebook for a long time.

01:33:19.860 My Facebook page for Stone Cold Truth, which is my website where I post political opinion, has 165 or 150,000 followers.

01:33:30.300 During the election, if I posted something I wrote, it would get 600, 700, 1,000, you know, shares.

01:33:40.020 It would get literally thousands of readings.

01:33:43.700 Now I get three, four, seven. 1.00

01:33:46.920 Do you really think we're that stupid? 0.99

01:33:49.220 I mean, these things are being manipulated at the back end through shadow banning and so on. 1.00

01:33:53.660 It has to be stopped.

01:33:56.200 I got two things.

01:33:57.040 Everybody should have fair access to the Internet.

01:34:02.180 I don't care if you're a socialist or a progressive or a vegetarian.

01:34:06.820 It doesn't matter to me.

01:34:08.080 Let the people decide what they want to read and what they want to believe.

01:34:11.680 By the way, it's so interesting listening to you and seeing how similar of a style of communication you and President Trump have on how you guys speak.

01:34:19.360 If I can put him over here and watch you, it's such similarities.

01:34:22.400 By the way, Stone's rules.

01:34:23.740 Let's wrap this up.

01:34:24.640 We'll do speed run and we'll be done with this interview here.

01:34:27.520 So Stone's rules.

01:34:28.400 I'll go through 10 of them and you tell me out of these 10, which of them are by far your favorite and most important one.

01:34:36.580 Number one, it is better to be very hard.

01:34:38.840 It's going to be very hard.

01:34:39.840 I'm curious to know what you're going to say.

01:34:41.500 It is better to be infamous than not to be famous at all.

01:34:44.880 That's rule number one.

01:34:45.620 Number two, past is prologue.

01:34:48.420 Okay, now you add an adjective to it, but past is prologue.

01:34:51.180 Number three, attack, attack, attack, never defend.

01:34:55.100 Number four, business is business.

01:34:57.420 Number five, only thing worse in politics than being wrong is being boring.

01:35:01.640 You talked about it earlier.

01:35:03.080 Number six, reinvent yourself.

01:35:04.740 Number seven, nothing is on the level.

01:35:07.420 Number eight, think big, be big.

01:35:09.100 Number nine, hate is more powerful, motivator than love.

01:35:12.360 And number 10, to win, you must do everything.

01:35:15.540 Which one do you think is the most important one?

01:35:18.200 Well, first of all, it's important to understand that most of those are written within the context

01:35:22.680 of a political campaign.

01:35:24.520 Now, some of them are transferable to life overall, but they're all important in their own way.

01:35:32.140 I could not really pick one rule over another because they're interconnected.

01:35:37.780 They all work together.

01:35:39.800 My book, Stone's Rules, was not written for conservatives or Republicans or Christians.

01:35:44.020 It was written for everybody.

01:35:45.460 It doesn't matter whether you're in entertainment or tech or agriculture or on Wall Street.

01:35:51.660 This is a book that I think can benefit everybody.

01:35:54.520 These are the simple lessons that I have learned as a warrior with 40 years in the arena.

01:36:00.880 And I think they work for everybody, men and women.

01:36:05.240 Now, there's some style tips in there for men that won't work for women.

01:36:09.400 But beyond that, these are just rules of the road.

01:36:12.360 It's like a handbook.

01:36:14.080 I commend it to anybody who wants to succeed.

01:36:17.820 How do I get through my current ordeal and my struggle with out-of-control federal prosecutors?

01:36:22.880 By following the rules in this book, which is probably the second greatest book ever written, after the Bible.

01:36:32.540 Love your humility.

01:36:33.880 It's a very big strength of you.

01:36:35.640 It's very obvious.

01:36:36.680 By the way, how many of those rules apply to business?

01:36:40.060 How many of those apply to?

01:36:41.240 A lot of them, I think, apply to business.

01:36:44.580 You know, it tells you how to budget an internet media campaign is in there.

01:36:49.940 There's a lot of practical advice in there as well as philosophical advice.

01:36:54.400 By the way, this is not the best book I've written.

01:36:56.240 That was a joke.

01:36:57.940 You know, one thing I wonder about you is you've come up and it's attack, attack, attack, never defend.

01:37:05.320 You know, it's a very cutthroat, super competitive.

01:37:08.840 You were not worried about stepping on anybody as long as you won.

01:37:12.960 Do you think right now, looking back, I've sat with Ditka and I wonder how Ditka processed with when he was coming up.

01:37:19.100 You know, Ditka doing his interviews from the Bears as a, you know, coach.

01:37:24.220 He would just call everybody out and he challenged people and it's pretty strong opinions.

01:37:28.660 And even with the last dance documentary with Michael, you're seeing how he was and how he pushed his people, challenged people.

01:37:34.400 Pissed a lot of people off.

01:37:35.760 On your way up in politics, you've created a lot of enemies.

01:37:40.160 Many of them.

01:37:41.700 Many, many enemies.

01:37:43.160 Because somebody wins and somebody loses.

01:37:45.180 That's the way politics works.

01:37:46.460 Yeah, but you're cutthroat, meaning you had no sympathy for beating everybody.

01:37:50.740 I mean, you're a hyper-competitive.

01:37:51.560 No, I think that's unfair.

01:37:53.640 Here's what I'm trying to say when I say attack, attack.

01:37:56.420 In any campaign, the candidate who dominates the dialogue from the beginning to the end will win.

01:38:03.580 You have to force the other person to talk about what you want to talk about.

01:38:08.520 If you end up talking about what they want to talk about, you will lose.

01:38:12.900 So by being aggressive, by going on the attack, by delineating the agenda and what the campaign is going to be about, you will win.

01:38:23.480 That means you have to draw first blood.

01:38:25.980 You have to lay down the predicate for any campaign.

01:38:29.500 A campaign on defense is losing votes.

01:38:32.520 A campaign that is explaining is losing votes.

01:38:36.280 A campaign that has no forward motion is losing votes.

01:38:41.140 Politics is motion.

01:38:43.620 That's one of the rules in the book.

01:38:45.640 You have to create the perception that your campaign is gaining steam, that you are moving forward, that you are attracting supporters.

01:38:54.380 Perception is reality.

01:38:56.680 It's your job to create that perception, and you create it by taking the initiative.

01:39:03.600 That is what I'm trying to say in that rule.

01:39:05.980 Yeah, when you outsmart the other guys, you make enemies.

01:39:11.260 Tom Kane was the governor of New Jersey.

01:39:13.260 He's a great man.

01:39:14.440 He ran in a primary with nine opponents, and some of them were very substantial, established politicians with long records of distinguished public service.

01:39:24.000 And he was a former leader of the state house.

01:39:26.940 He won.

01:39:27.860 They lost.

01:39:28.920 I had one friend and eight enemies.

01:39:31.200 It's the way it is.

01:39:32.720 So you don't think that's the reason why you have a lot of people right now that are wanting to take you down?

01:39:36.800 You don't think because you've created so many different enemies that have teamed up together to say, now it's our turn.

01:39:41.840 Let's get even with Roger.

01:39:43.980 Well, certainly that there are some who have revenge as a motive.

01:39:47.620 Look, I wrote a book, The Bush Crime Family, and I wrote a book, The Clintons, War on Women.

01:39:52.940 I'm an equal opportunity truth teller.

01:39:56.120 And I'll say things that aren't popular.

01:39:59.680 You know, Jeffrey Epstein's been in the news a great deal over the last year.

01:40:03.660 If you go to my book, The Clintons, War on Women, the longest chapter is on Jeffrey Epstein.

01:40:08.900 And every single thing you have learned in the last year was written back in 2016.

01:40:14.440 Bill's 28 trips on the Lolita Express.

01:40:17.720 Bill's 17, I think, is the right number of visits to Epstein's Pedophile Island.

01:40:22.480 The fact that George Mitchell and Bill Richardson and others were enjoying the company of underage children.

01:40:31.540 It's all in my book, but the mainstream media didn't cover my book.

01:40:36.000 So now that it was covered, really because of the courageous reporting of an investigative reporter with the Miami Herald, a woman named Brown, who did an amazing job of doggedly staying on this case because she knew something wasn't right.

01:40:54.640 Now everybody knows.

01:40:56.140 But back then, nobody knew.

01:40:58.080 It's all in my book.

01:40:59.120 Have you watched the docuseries of Jeffrey Epstein or no?

01:41:01.640 You haven't gone through it?

01:41:02.340 I have not.

01:41:02.580 Okay, so let's do speed round.

01:41:05.300 Roger, I'll give you a name.

01:41:06.540 Tell me one word that comes to your mind.

01:41:08.380 One word that comes to your mind.

01:41:10.140 John Davis Lodge.

01:41:11.780 The smarter of the two Lodge brothers.

01:41:13.920 He was Henry Cabot Lodge's brother.

01:41:15.800 One of my mentors.

01:41:17.340 Actor, diplomat, congressman, governor.

01:41:21.220 Very successful actor.

01:41:23.220 President Trump.

01:41:25.160 Courageous.

01:41:26.160 Ballsy.

01:41:27.320 Hillary Clinton. 0.99

01:41:29.000 Criminal.

01:41:30.400 Joe Biden. 1.00

01:41:30.880 Racist. 1.00

01:41:33.520 Scary Moochie. 1.00

01:41:35.560 Nice guy.

01:41:37.460 Kushner.

01:41:37.840 I saw him wearing a suit.

01:41:39.440 I said, hey, Mooch, that's a great looking suit. 0.99

01:41:41.620 What does it cost in a man's size?

01:41:44.420 Kushner.

01:41:46.280 I like what he's done on Criminal Justice.

01:41:48.540 I think he's done a great job.

01:41:50.700 Robert Mueller.

01:41:53.260 Befuddled.

01:41:54.160 Not all there.

01:41:55.620 A cover-up artist for the deep state.

01:41:57.520 Anthrax, 9-11.

01:42:00.720 It's all there.

01:42:02.420 Michael Flynn.

01:42:04.380 A great American patriot. 0.87

01:42:06.440 The only guy in America that I can think of who's been screwed worse than I have. 0.89

01:42:10.480 James Comey. 0.99

01:42:12.740 Epically corrupt. 0.98

01:42:14.740 Pompous. 0.93

01:42:15.740 And I wonder why he hasn't been charged than I have.

01:42:19.060 Giuliani.

01:42:19.580 The greatest mayor of New York City ever had.

01:42:23.640 A straight shooter and a friend.

01:42:27.200 Lewandowski.

01:42:28.640 I'm softening on this.

01:42:30.920 You know, he and I were pretty bitter enemies.

01:42:33.780 We have a different approach.

01:42:35.180 But I like the fact that he has the courage to defend the president at all places.

01:42:40.940 Machiavelli.

01:42:41.420 I've read his book many times.

01:42:44.980 And if you read Stone's Rules, a number of my rules are with acknowledgement based on his.

01:42:51.280 Paul Manafort.

01:42:53.320 Paul Manafort is complicated.

01:42:56.580 A strategic genius when it comes to convention politics.

01:43:00.140 I don't recommend his business practices.

01:43:03.200 Richard Nixon.

01:43:05.260 Resilient.

01:43:06.180 Persistent.

01:43:07.120 The greatest comeback in American history.

01:43:09.000 Charles Black.

01:43:11.660 A savvy Washington operator.

01:43:14.520 Jim Messina.

01:43:17.140 Jim Messina.

01:43:18.560 You don't know that name?

01:43:19.300 I'm not sure who that is.

01:43:20.760 Ross Perot.

01:43:22.820 A trailblazer.

01:43:24.000 People forget the fact that he actually led both Bush and Gore for some period of time in that election,

01:43:30.220 proving that if you had enough money, a third-party candidate could win.

01:43:35.100 And an early precursor to Trump in the sense that a businessman running for president.

01:43:40.240 First time that's ever gotten any real traction.

01:43:43.600 I know these aren't one-word answers, but it's tough.

01:43:46.480 All good.

01:43:47.000 Mark Cuban.

01:43:48.820 I like him.

01:43:49.920 He's audacious.

01:43:51.160 He's a businessman like Trump.

01:43:52.820 I never quite understand where he stands because sometimes he's pro-Trump.

01:43:56.940 Sometimes he's critical.

01:43:58.520 But he's always interesting.

01:44:00.040 I like watching him.

01:44:01.820 George Soros. 0.79

01:44:03.600 Evil. 0.97

01:44:04.600 The personification of evil.

01:44:07.140 Elliot Spitzer. 1.00

01:44:07.960 A hypocrite. 1.00

01:44:10.540 A man who was prosecuting guys for seeing prostitutes while he himself was seeing prostitutes. 1.00

01:44:18.140 Andrew Cuomo. 0.68

01:44:20.460 Tough.

01:44:22.640 Nixonian in many ways.

01:44:24.800 Unforgiving.

01:44:26.100 Politically talented.

01:44:27.860 Kind of ruthless.

01:44:29.440 Has a shot for presidency?

01:44:33.140 It's very hard to say.

01:44:34.720 I mean, because they've delayed some of these late primaries, it's not inconceivable that

01:44:39.920 Biden could get to the convention with not enough votes to go over the top on the first

01:44:44.680 ballot.

01:44:45.220 If Biden were to fall short on the first ballot, he won't be the nominee.

01:44:49.120 Somebody else will.

01:44:50.660 2024, dude.

01:44:51.420 Does he have a shot in 2024?

01:44:52.980 Cuomo?

01:44:53.540 Probably.

01:44:54.160 He's got to get reelected governor.

01:44:55.760 The history on that is not good.

01:44:58.440 People who've gone for the fourth term in New York have not politically, historically

01:45:04.000 fared well in the past.

01:45:05.800 Nancy Pelosi.

01:45:08.120 Frozen face.

01:45:09.520 What's wrong with her face?

01:45:12.080 Roy Cohen.

01:45:14.420 Complicated.

01:45:16.040 Vicious.

01:45:18.480 Sentimental.

01:45:19.760 Extraordinarily loyal.

01:45:22.420 Photographic memory.

01:45:24.320 Tough as nails.

01:45:26.000 And last but not least, Roger Stone.

01:45:28.540 One word.

01:45:29.060 A guy who always did his best.

01:45:32.360 And a fighter who will never quit.

01:45:35.180 How ugly are these, this year's campaign going to be, this presidential campaign this

01:45:39.060 year?

01:45:39.220 How ugly will it get?

01:45:41.000 It'll be very ugly, but there has to be a context. 0.97

01:45:45.640 When Lincoln ran, they had handbills posted that said that he had fathered a black child, 0.91

01:45:51.440 and they handed them out.

01:45:52.560 Today, we use the internet and television, but it's just as vicious.

01:45:57.460 Politics in America is a contact sport.

01:46:00.260 It always has been.

01:46:01.540 It always will be.

01:46:03.040 So I don't expect it to be any more vicious than the one four years ago, and the one four

01:46:07.460 years before that, and the one four years before that, on through our history.

01:46:11.940 The only thing that's changed is our technological capability to deliver the message.

01:46:17.040 Just change a game.

01:46:18.320 Social media is a completely changing game.

01:46:20.140 Roger, we're going to put the links to all your books below, and I'm going to put the

01:46:24.720 link to the GoFundMe website you were talking about as well.

01:46:27.160 We'll put that link below as well.

01:46:28.680 Thank you so much for coming and visiting us on Valuetainment and being a guest.

01:46:32.840 I'm glad to be here, and thanks to my friend Josh Porterstein for putting us together.

01:46:37.460 This has been a great opportunity because, as I say, I have a lot to say.

01:46:42.040 Thank you for your time.

01:46:43.220 Thanks, everybody, for listening.

01:46:44.420 And by the way, if you haven't already subscribed to Valuetainment on iTunes, please do so.

01:46:48.780 Give us a five-star, write a review if you haven't already, and if you have any questions

01:46:52.940 for me that you may have, you can always find me on Snapchat, Instagram, Facebook, or YouTube.

01:46:57.920 Just search my name, PatrickBitDavid, and I actually do respond back when you snap me

01:47:02.660 or send me a message on Instagram.

01:47:04.660 With that being said, have a great day today.

01:47:06.460 Take care, everybody.

01:47:07.200 Bye-bye.

01:47:07.460 Bye-bye.

01:47:07.500 Bye-bye.

01:47:07.540 Bye-bye.

01:47:07.560 Bye-bye.

01:47:07.580 Bye-bye.

Valuetainment - July 31, 2020

Episode 504： Who is Roger Stone - Dirty Trickster or Marketing Genius？

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