Valuetainment

00:00:00.000 I wanted to talk to my friends about these issues.

00:00:03.120 My friends were also members of the anti-fascist movement.

00:00:05.420 And that was the very first time that I was called a capitalist pig,

00:00:08.180 just for asking questions.

00:00:09.640 Yes, I was promoting some sort of capitalist propaganda.

00:00:12.760 You leave in 2012.

00:00:14.380 What have you noticed that's changed with Antifa from then to today?

00:00:18.480 Well, you know something?

00:00:19.140 Antifa today is far more dangerous than anything that I was part of.

00:00:22.860 We heard multiple times under Trump's administration

00:00:25.200 calling Antifa a terrorist organization.

00:00:27.120 Putting them in that category makes it a little bit more difficult for them.

00:00:30.240 But does it really slow them down?

00:00:32.120 Who is funding Antifa today?

00:00:33.960 They're not being paid to go steal a violence.

00:00:37.300 They're doing it out of their own hearts.

00:00:39.420 Do they look up to somebody like an AOC or Elhan Omar or folks like that or no?

00:00:44.060 Surprisingly, no.

00:00:45.800 They are not left enough for them.

00:00:48.940 Even AOC is a capitalist.

00:00:52.720 Who do they look at as absolute enemies?

00:00:55.220 Like, who is the enemy to state number one?

00:00:57.340 Their true enemy is our system of government and our society as a whole.

00:01:07.500 My guest today is Gabriel Nadales, who used to be a part of Antifa until he decided to change his mind.

00:01:13.580 This was around 2011.

00:01:15.300 He wrote a book called Behind the Black Mask, My Time as an Antifa Activist.

00:01:19.980 Gabriel, thank you so much for being a guest on Valuetainment.

00:01:23.020 Thank you. I appreciate it.

00:01:23.940 So, first things first, how were you recruited into Antifa back in the days?

00:01:28.700 So, you know, when I was part of the anti-fascist movement, nobody really recruited me.

00:01:33.100 I was already a liberal activist for about maybe about a year and a year and a half.

00:01:36.580 And I knew a little bit about Antifa due to the music that I used to listen to.

00:01:41.140 A lot of people don't know this, but Antifa actually comes from the anarcho-punk and like the punk subculture, at least in the United States in the 1980s.

00:01:49.600 So, listening to this music and kind of following their history, I learned about Antifa.

00:01:54.360 Antifa. And in 2011 was the first time I put on the black mask.

00:01:58.640 And it was to fight against the National Socialist Movement.

00:02:02.420 Now, the National Socialist Movement is a neo-Nazi group.

00:02:05.240 Pretty, pretty spiteful people.

00:02:07.020 But since I knew a little bit about Antifa, I decided to dress it all in black and just kind of show up and see what was going on.

00:02:14.440 And what did you learn?

00:02:15.460 Well, you know, once I was there, I linked up with a lot of different anarchists and members of Antifa at the time.

00:02:23.060 And they're the ones who invited me over to more radical events.

00:02:26.700 I mean, I attended several different anarchist book fairs in Southern California, in Los Angeles, in Orange County.

00:02:32.300 I went into this rabbit hole of anarchist subculture that I had only read about before.

00:02:38.440 Now, I think the question is, you said you already were a liberal activist before going to Antifa.

00:02:43.360 How did you become a liberal activist?

00:02:45.880 Well, you know, I'm a Mexican immigrant.

00:02:48.860 I came to the United States, specifically California, in 2002 when I was nine years old.

00:02:54.360 And my household wasn't all that political.

00:02:57.480 Sometimes they would be mentioning of what was going on.

00:03:00.320 But I remember watching Univision and Telemundo.

00:03:04.440 And these two shows, they, I mean, their nightly news segment would always spell doom out for everybody.

00:03:13.080 And I remember that they, they would make it seem like Republicans and like people who loved America were my enemy, simply because they were out or because they were out to get the Hispanic people.

00:03:24.180 I mean, that's the feeling that I got from watching these shows.

00:03:26.960 So I grew up with this in mind.

00:03:29.520 And then in middle school and high school, I had multiple different teachers who told me that I needed to do something.

00:03:35.280 Well, not just specifically me, but to the class that we needed to be the voice of change.

00:03:39.500 And then among them, there was also different teachers who would, instead of teaching them, teaching us their class or their subjects, would start berating us for being conservative or if we held conservative beliefs.

00:03:54.940 Is that your biology teacher you're referencing?

00:03:58.160 Yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:03:59.380 I mean, he wasn't the only one, but there is a biology teacher that I had.

00:04:03.240 And I remember that he used to yell at us and just, there was this one lecture, it was about evolution.

00:04:10.820 And he was saying how people who were believed in God and didn't believe in evolution were stupid and specifically pointing it to us.

00:04:19.240 And I remember he used to say that, like, of course, his children weren't stupid because he raised them to be atheists, you know.

00:04:26.260 So it was a lot of different seeds were planted in me by several different teachers, as well as the Spanish media that made me want to be active and really care about politics.

00:04:40.400 And the first time that I did something that really, really political was around 2006, I think.

00:04:49.240 And I remember that there was this Republican from Wisconsin, I forget his name, I read about him in my book, who introduced a bill to make border crossings into the country criminal, illegal border crossings, rather.

00:05:03.380 While obviously crossing into the border, into America illegally is illegal, it's not criminal.

00:05:09.400 But what this bill would have done was to criminalize anyone and throw them in prison or jail or whatever for coming here illegally, as opposed to just supporting them.

00:05:18.660 Well, I remember in Univision ante el mundo, it was the beginning of a new genocide and internment camps and all these these big things that were happening all throughout the country.

00:05:28.600 And I remember a lot of my different classmates were mad about this and we were marching around our school.

00:05:34.620 This is middle school at this point.

00:05:36.200 I mean, that's basically the first time that I did anything overtly political.

00:05:40.260 But from there, I did things for anti-war things against Bush, as well as I also in 2009 to protest Arnold Schwarzenegger, who was the governor, Republican governor of California.

00:05:53.400 You know, I marched with the teachers unions. That's kind of like what it was at the time.

00:05:59.580 Just protests, you know, against the U.S. Army, just a bunch of small little little things.

00:06:05.740 What were some of the phrases? We have a big Mexican community, specifically Mexican community that follows the content here.

00:06:12.080 What were some of the phrases you grew up with listening to Mexican media or Latino media?

00:06:18.420 Obviously, Jorge Ramos represents a big Latino community.

00:06:21.940 But what were some of the phrases you would hear? You know, what what are they going to do to you?

00:06:25.860 You said the genocide. What were some of the phrases you heard specifically in Spanish?

00:06:30.480 In Spanish. Oh, gosh, it's kind of difficult to kind of remember.

00:06:34.480 I just kind of remember like the sense of of these different things.

00:06:37.900 It's fine if I speak Spanish in your show.

00:06:39.360 Sure. You can say what they said.

00:06:41.360 Well, I remember specifically about Jorge Ramos, like he would hate President Bush very hard about not caring enough about Latinos and and just making it seem like he was like this bad guy because he didn't want to pass immigration reform.

00:06:56.220 I don't remember like any specific things. It's one of those things that I kind of just made to stick.

00:07:01.020 But it stuck with you where it influenced you.

00:07:03.860 OK, so at what point when you went into Antifa and you started kind of, you know, you know, being part of the group at what point?

00:07:11.340 What did you see that turned you off to say, I can't align myself with this?

00:07:15.840 Sure. So about about about a year and a half into me being part of the movement.

00:07:21.400 It was my senior year of high school. And there was this economics teacher who introduced me to free market economics, you know, as part of the the course requirements.

00:07:30.180 And soon I learned about Milton Friedman and Thomas Sowell. And I mean, these are great economic minds.

00:07:35.800 And I think that now. But at the time, I remember that I I mean, I didn't like them.

00:07:40.680 I disagree with them. So I wanted to refute the free market and these these beliefs.

00:07:46.080 And by doing so, I wanted to talk to my friends about these issues.

00:07:50.620 Well, my friends were also members of the anti-fascist movement.

00:07:54.080 Well, I always say that for being an anarchist at the time, that was the very first time that I was called the capitalist pig just for asking questions.

00:08:01.500 Because as soon as I started having some of these conversations with them, they started seeing me as the enemy, as I was promoting some sort of capitalist propaganda.

00:08:09.120 There's just one conversation that I remember having about the role of government.

00:08:12.820 And, you know, I was an anarchist, so I didn't believe in government.

00:08:16.180 But I thought if there's a government out there that would exist, it should be small, but only so it can enforce the rights of people and nothing else, nothing else.

00:08:26.440 And then this other so-called anarchist, he said, well, you know, I don't believe in government either.

00:08:30.240 But if a government is to exist, it should be there to help everyone.

00:08:36.780 And that just became illogical to me.

00:08:39.180 I thought, well, you're saying you don't want government.

00:08:42.060 But if there is a government, it should be the biggest possible creature that you can possibly create.

00:08:48.060 Because if a government is big enough to give you something, it's big enough to take everything away.

00:08:53.440 And that just didn't make sense.

00:08:54.880 So after constant conversations with a lot of these leftist activists, I decided that I really wanted to reach out to the conservative side and see what they were saying.

00:09:03.700 Because I felt like I wasn't getting the true picture or from all my left-wing friends.

00:09:09.540 Now, that's in 2011, 2011, 2012.

00:09:15.280 So in 2011, 2012, you're part of the group.

00:09:18.000 You leave in 2012.

00:09:20.000 You're now, I believe, 27 years old.

00:09:22.380 When you went into the group nine years ago, 26, 27 years old, nine years ago, you were teens, 16, 17 years old, 18 years old.

00:09:29.280 What have you noticed that's changed with Antifa from then in 2011 to today?

00:09:34.060 Well, you know something, Antifa today is far more dangerous than anything that I was part of.

00:09:39.260 And I mean, there's this book written by a leftist activist, and it's called The Antifascist Handbook.

00:09:45.300 It was written in 2017 or published in 2017.

00:09:48.160 And on the back of the book, there's this gentleman named Murray from Baltimore who – he's a self-proclaimed Antifa activist.

00:09:54.620 And it says the reason you fight them with letters and making phone calls is so you don't have to fight them with fists.

00:10:00.460 The reason you fight them with fists is so you don't have to fight them with knives.

00:10:03.900 The reason you fight them with knives is so you don't have to fight them with guns and with guns so you don't have to fight them with tanks.

00:10:09.840 Now, a lot of people see that this is – think that this is a form of anticipatory self-defense that can be boiled down to the phrase of, like, don't mess with me and I won't mess with you.

00:10:18.820 But that language is actually trying to say you better sit down and shut up or we are going to make you by any means necessary.

00:10:27.300 But with this quote, we can actually kind of break down Antifa activism, if you will, into different stages.

00:10:33.420 The first stage is being intimidation and some destruction of property.

00:10:37.040 But then it quickly escalates to force, violence, and then to deadly force until you get the final stage, which is all-out warfare.

00:10:45.480 Antifa in America, at least in America, has been in different cycles of this.

00:10:50.900 And when I was in the – in the 1990s, we definitely saw a lot of that violence.

00:10:56.440 And in the late 2000s and kind of when I was part of it, we were kind of in the first stage again, which is kind of intimidation, kind of yelling at people.

00:11:06.220 I remember – I mean I broke in a few windows as well as trying to intimidate a few people.

00:11:11.320 But I got to say this. Yesterday, I was actually at – in Washington, D.C., and I decided to put on the black mask again and kind of infiltrate Antifa.

00:11:22.720 And I saw very key differences between when I was part of the movement.

00:11:28.340 First of all, they're open about –

00:11:30.320 And by the way, when you're saying yesterday, you mean November 3rd election.

00:11:33.500 November 3rd election.

00:11:34.420 Yeah, it's very important because when they see this, November 3rd is the day that everybody is getting – going through the election.

00:11:39.920 So go ahead. You were saying in D.C.?

00:11:41.440 Sure. So on election night, I was actually in D.C. and I decided to put on the black mask and just kind of see what was going on.

00:11:48.360 I wasn't really sure what I was going to find, but I knew that for a fact that Antifa was going to be organizing.

00:11:54.120 First of all, it is far bigger than everything – anything I remember seeing.

00:11:57.580 The biggest things that I was a part of was the Occupy protests, and that came from people from all southern California.

00:12:04.740 And while those were incredibly big, bigger than yesterday, not everybody was part of Antifa.

00:12:10.480 There was a lot of left-wing activists as well as some free market capitalists who were angry at the banks.

00:12:18.720 So it wasn't just a left-wing movement, although it vastly was.

00:12:22.420 But at the very least, it wasn't all Antifa.

00:12:24.140 Well, yesterday, it was like close to 200 people addressing the black bloc.

00:12:29.240 And it's kind of funny because they were – at first, they were saying like, oh, like, no violence.

00:12:33.600 Like, you know, don't trash the city.

00:12:35.460 This is – we shouldn't have to do that.

00:12:38.000 But it's interesting because as soon as we started marching, within minutes, all of a sudden, that went out the window.

00:12:43.220 I mean, they started threatening journalists who were trying to take pictures.

00:12:46.160 And also, I believe – I wasn't present at this, but I just heard a few minutes ago that there was this gentleman who got stabbed or at least slashed in his stomach.

00:12:57.960 I mean, at first, they were claiming that it was going to be some sort of peaceful march.

00:13:02.160 But, of course, Antifa is not about peaceful protests.

00:13:05.380 It is about shutting things down as using their words.

00:13:10.200 So you dressed up as an Antifa.

00:13:11.800 Did they talk to you and did anybody recognize you or no one recognized you?

00:13:15.420 No, thankfully not because, I mean, I don't want to be recognized in that rally.

00:13:19.660 But I made sure to keep my mask at all times.

00:13:23.200 I actually found some pictures online for some of the news outlets.

00:13:27.920 But anyways, you cannot recognize me.

00:13:30.600 But I did talk to a few different people.

00:13:32.800 I think the most notable thing – one of the most notable things to point out, though, is that the media – I'm very disappointed in the media.

00:13:41.680 They were basically taking marching orders from Antifa.

00:13:45.140 I remember back in my day when I was part of the Occupy stuff and as well as some of the anti-neo-Nazi rallies that I was a part of.

00:13:53.040 The media was there.

00:13:54.400 Obviously, we didn't want to take pictures of us because that would reveal our identities.

00:13:58.340 But we would just kind of turn around and just kind of avoid the photographers.

00:14:04.260 Well, this time, this Antifa was trying to use umbrellas to block cameras and not only do that but actually push some of the reporters.

00:14:11.480 On top of that, the reason I'm disappointed in the media is because I know for a fact if we had done that back in the day, the media would have just kind of walked away and then tried to take a picture.

00:14:20.980 But this time, a lot of the media was actually listening to them as if they were part of the movement as well.

00:14:27.220 And unfortunately, I think that speaks volumes to a lot of journalists nowadays.

00:14:31.300 What do you mean by that?

00:14:32.600 Unpack them when you're saying listening to them as if they're part of the movement.

00:14:35.520 What do you mean listening to them?

00:14:37.140 Yeah.

00:14:37.420 So, for example, there was this guy who's like, don't take pictures.

00:14:39.700 You know, like that can only endanger us.

00:14:43.160 And this journalist apologists, like, I'm sorry, like, I didn't think of that.

00:14:46.400 You know, it's like, well, your point is to just report the facts and just take pictures of what's going on, not try to conceal the identities of these people who are a part of this movement that are trying to.

00:14:57.040 What organization was that person part of, that journalist?

00:14:59.920 I don't know.

00:15:01.080 I just know that he had a press thing here.

00:15:04.740 I didn't recognize any of the outlets.

00:15:07.440 Every time that I would see it, I would just see the word press on top.

00:15:10.560 I do know that there was this gentleman, Elijah Schaefer, who is from Blaze TV.

00:15:15.700 I didn't know that at the time, but I later found out because I saw some of the angles he was taking pictures of me or whatever.

00:15:22.160 And he was one of the ones who reporters who was being threatened with, you know, he was actually being a good reporter.

00:15:28.440 He was being threatened and he would kind of walk away and try to get a different angle.

00:15:31.860 But there was other reporters who just were taking marching orders from Antifa.

00:15:36.860 Yeah, I saw some of the videos, both in D.C. and L.A., specifically last night with Antifa.

00:15:41.700 And it wasn't looking good in both areas.

00:15:44.500 It seems like, you know, they're both, you know, creating more momentum.

00:15:49.180 Obviously, it depends on who gets elected and a lot's on the line right now.

00:15:52.200 I was trying to find out what happens next.

00:15:53.980 But, you know, the question I got for you now, obviously, you've heard this many, many times before.

00:15:58.440 With who funds Antifa.

00:16:00.640 And that answer to that question could change within time because Antifa is a different organization today than 2011.

00:16:07.120 Who is funding Antifa today?

00:16:09.300 So I get this question a lot.

00:16:11.840 And a lot of people want me to say that it's George Soros that's funding Antifa.

00:16:16.360 But and it's kind of funny because then if you kind of Google my name around and some of the Antifa Twitter circles,

00:16:23.320 they'll they'll kind of mock it saying like, oh, I work for George Soros.

00:16:26.500 He's not on the pay stub, you know, kind of kind of mocking me a little bit.

00:16:30.540 Well, I can tell you that George Soros did not fund me when I was part of the movement.

00:16:33.960 And there was really nobody who was funding me.

00:16:36.680 And we were all kind of self-funded.

00:16:38.960 We would do, quote unquote, like little fundraiser gigs or shows, music shows to to fundraise for supplies as well as we a lot of us had jobs.

00:16:46.480 And I think that reveals a danger because it reveals that there's people out there who genuinely hate America.

00:16:55.020 They're not being paid to go stir up violence.

00:16:58.140 They're doing it out of their own hearts.

00:17:00.140 That being said, I mean, Antifa is much bigger than anything that I was a part of.

00:17:05.480 I mean, some of the collectives are are small that I was a part of are incredibly tiny when you look at what's everything that's going on around the country.

00:17:14.860 And I'm very curious to know who is funding the Torch Anti-Fascist Network.

00:17:20.500 This was actually created in 2013.

00:17:22.880 So it was about a year after I left and it was founded by nine different Antifa chapters.

00:17:28.380 Portland Antifa, what are they called?

00:17:31.280 The Philly Antifa, the Rocky Mountain Antifa.

00:17:34.500 And there's a few others.

00:17:35.320 I can't remember.

00:17:35.740 There was nine original founding chapters.

00:17:37.840 Now, this is an actual traditional organization.

00:17:40.360 They actually have an annual conference.

00:17:43.160 That's a two day conference.

00:17:44.780 And the first day, the delegates of these nine chapters, 10 now since Sacramento Antifa joined the fold.

00:17:52.260 And they send delegates to the first day.

00:17:55.120 And then the second day, they have a little bit more wide open to the public, not really to the public, but more of the wider Antifa chapters abroad.

00:18:05.220 Now, that takes a lot of money.

00:18:06.380 I'm not sure who's funding that, but it'd be great if we can get to the bottom of that.

00:18:11.820 How do you find that out?

00:18:12.860 I mean, can't somebody like yourself who's been a part of that to be able to infiltrate and find out who's funding that?

00:18:18.580 No, so it's actually really difficult because if I was still part of the movement and still part of the Los Angeles Anti-Fascist Network, I know for a fact that I would have never made it to the first day.

00:18:29.400 So I may have gotten and accepted it the second day, but they definitely keep it nice and it's a very close secret.

00:18:39.220 What does it take to get in there?

00:18:40.660 What does it take to be one of them?

00:18:41.880 So a lot of people, I'll tell you specifically how I, what I did yesterday, which is actually similar to, I basically did what I did several years ago yesterday.

00:18:53.760 I basically showed up and I got them to say yes to me to something.

00:18:57.760 I pretended that my hat or whatever, my beanie was messed up and I tapped someone in life and I told them, hey, cover me.

00:19:04.760 Like I need to fix myself and then you have three people who are like covering me or whatever and that gave me an excuse to talk to them and actually say like, hey, so like what's going on?

00:19:13.240 Like what's the plan?

00:19:13.840 What are we doing here?

00:19:15.080 And back in the day, if I had gotten into, if I really wanted to be into the movement, I would have tried to get involved or in contact with some of the key leaders and key activists as I did back in 2011.

00:19:26.840 But this time, obviously, I just wanted to gain their trust so they didn't see me as an outsider who was just kind of there by himself.

00:19:32.580 I didn't get any of their phone numbers, but I'm sure that I could have gotten connected with some of the key organizers or more of the serious organizers if I had asked.

00:19:43.860 Yeah, I'd be curious to know who the leaders behind it, the people that have the influence, because through that you could find out who's really funding it.

00:19:49.640 But, you know, in every, you can ask somebody who's got a certain religion, political beliefs, you ask them who their hero is, you can learn a lot about them.

00:19:58.740 Who is the hero or heroes of the Antifa community?

00:20:03.440 So it varies.

00:20:04.660 I remember when I was, again, when I was a part of the movement, there was people who liked Che Guevara and who thought that he was like the epitome of anti-fascism, revolutionary tactics.

00:20:14.420 There's people who also took, who liked the, what is his name?

00:20:19.580 El Chapo.

00:20:20.300 Zapatistas, Zapatistas, there we go. 0.58

00:20:22.680 Zapatistas. 0.95

00:20:23.820 And, you know, they really enjoyed them.

00:20:26.520 I can tell you that no one's looking up to the true anti-fascists of General Eisenhower or, you know, people like that.

00:20:33.700 They're always looking for the people who are revolutionaries and fighting the capitalist system.

00:20:39.700 How about modern day, modern day people that are alive?

00:20:42.900 Modern day people that are alive.

00:20:44.040 I mean, I can't really give any specific examples.

00:20:48.300 I know that back in 2014, some of the chapters or some of the more radical left, they were looking specifically to this woman who fled to Cuba after killing a police officer.

00:21:00.820 And she's actually, I believe, I think it might have been in Northern California.

00:21:03.820 I can't remember.

00:21:04.540 In 2014, they were trying to name a building after her at maybe UC Berkeley.

00:21:09.100 And I can't remember.

00:21:09.640 I know it was in Northern California.

00:21:10.700 And, I mean, she's wanted by the FBI. 0.99

00:21:14.920 She's one of the most wanted people. 0.70

00:21:16.260 And she's living in Cuba. 0.93

00:21:17.480 And the radical left is worshipping her because she killed a police officer.

00:21:21.620 And, I mean, this is the kind of people that really they look up to.

00:21:24.320 People who are true, quote, unquote, true revolutionaries who are willing to take that step and kill innocent people or innocent police officers.

00:21:32.440 Is that Assad or Shakur?

00:21:34.140 I think that might be it.

00:21:34.980 So, OK, so those are some of the names they look at as heroes.

00:21:37.260 And who do they look at as absolute enemies?

00:21:39.860 Like, who is the enemy, the state number one?

00:21:42.900 You know, anybody who is opposed to them is suddenly the enemy.

00:21:48.560 But back in back in my day, it was in it was they actually really despised Obama and they thought Obama wasn't liberal or leftist enough to do it.

00:21:59.080 Because a lot of people have this misconception that Antifa is against President Trump or just against Republicans, you know, because this tends to be more on the left side of politics.

00:22:09.940 But what people really need to understand, Antifa, is that their true enemy is our system of government and our society as a whole, because they despise the they despise capitalism.

00:22:24.180 They have this this wrong idea that by destroying capitalism, all of a sudden you're going to have gender equality and racial equality and everything's going to be nice and dandy.

00:22:36.060 When, as we've seen around the world in several countries, those places that don't have a capitalist system, more of a Marxist or socialist system, they're actually the most oppressive governments in which there's closer to slavery.

00:22:49.320 I mean, for example, in China right now we have I forget the name of the ethnic group, the Mongolians, I believe they're basically being put in in in concentration camps.

00:22:59.280 And that's what you get with the socialist system.

00:23:02.880 Do they look up to somebody like an AOC or Elhan Omar or folks like that or no?

00:23:08.460 Surprisingly, no, they are not left enough for them because it's kind of funny.

00:23:15.240 And this is as a conservative activist, I've gotten an opportunity to travel to a lot of different college campuses, specifically at UC Berkeley.

00:23:22.500 Wow.

00:23:22.800 Right outside their college campus, there's this bookstore called Revolution Books.

00:23:28.660 And I remember seeing a flyer from one of their events saying how AOC's Green New Deal was just a new capitalist plan to secure power.

00:23:42.140 And they were criticizing her for being a capitalist.

00:23:44.760 This is how far some of these Antifa and radical leftists are.

00:23:48.320 Even AOC is a capitalist to them.

00:23:51.660 So what is their ultimate vision?

00:23:54.120 What are they trying to accomplish?

00:23:55.240 Obviously, their stated mission is to destroy fascism.

00:23:59.260 But by destroying fascism, they really just mean, and I can't stress this enough.

00:24:03.460 I feel sometimes like I'm just repeating myself.

00:24:05.840 But when they say fascism, they mean American society and also just the capitalist system.

00:24:11.840 As a matter of fact, in my book, I quote this Antifa chapter on Twitter that they say the fight against fascism will only be won when the capitalist system is smashed.

00:24:24.360 And I mean, that's truly what they want.

00:24:26.420 They have this wrongful idea that capitalism and fascism are the same system when they're completely opposites.

00:24:34.920 Yeah, I watched this documentary that was just released a couple of days ago by RT Documentary.

00:24:40.540 I don't know if you've seen it or not.

00:24:41.800 No.

00:24:42.080 The title says Antifa, BLM, Bogaloo, Boys, Why Armed Protesters Are Preparing for a Civil War in America.

00:24:48.560 This is two days ago.

00:24:49.740 And he's interviewing somebody who is with Antifa and BLM.

00:24:54.100 And he says, what's your real outcome?

00:24:55.280 He says, we want to make America great again like how it was pre-Christopher Columbus.

00:25:03.140 We got to get rid of everybody to start it the way we want to create it.

00:25:07.720 Is that how far out they are with their vision?

00:25:11.500 It doesn't surprise me.

00:25:12.760 I haven't watched the documentary, but that doesn't surprise me at all because they have this preconceived notion that all of a sudden that Columbus brought war to the Americas.

00:25:21.700 As if the native tribes weren't fighting with one another, then they had different alliances.

00:25:26.280 I can tell you this much.

00:25:27.320 The Aztecs, I'm a descendant of the Aztecs, and everybody hated the Aztecs.

00:25:31.720 They were terrorizing people.

00:25:32.940 They were cannibals. 0.96

00:25:34.160 They were fighting wars against everybody else.

00:25:37.780 And, I mean, they have this frequency, this belief, this mistaken belief that capitalism is the root of all evil, that it is fascism.

00:25:46.180 When you really have to look at human culture or rather the way humans interact with one another, unfortunately, the humans kind of suck.

00:25:55.980 Oftentimes there's war, but it's not the system itself.

00:25:59.160 As a matter of fact, if you look throughout history, capitalist systems are the ones who are going to war the least because war is so expensive.

00:26:08.700 That's a good point.

00:26:09.400 Now, how do you deal with radicals like this?

00:26:13.300 You know, when you're dealing with radicals like this, can you reason with them?

00:26:16.800 Can you put them in a room and say, guys, let's try to figure out a solution here?

00:26:19.940 Where are you at?

00:26:20.440 Is there any way to reason with folks from BLM and Antifa?

00:26:23.900 You know something?

00:26:24.460 In my book, Behind the Black Mask, I make the argument that we should be talking to people because these people, I think that they're mistaken.

00:26:32.080 I don't think they're too, too far gone.

00:26:36.400 That being said, it's really hard to reason with someone who wants to do you harm.

00:26:43.360 And I understand that.

00:26:44.840 So my basic argument is if there's Antifa activists, quote unquote activists, out there who terrorize people, they need to be thrown in prison.

00:26:54.040 Like, you know, you just like any other criminal would be.

00:26:56.980 That being said, in order for us to change the minds of these people, it's not necessarily to go after them, but kind of attack against institutions who are promoting this type of ideologies.

00:27:09.080 I've been a conservative activist for eight years, and I can tell you that so many college campuses out there provide ideological cover for Antifa.

00:27:16.660 There's professors who I like to call Antifa-lite that promote a dangerous us-versus-them mentality.

00:27:21.980 And they start indoctrinating their students into hating conservatives, into hating Republicans.

00:27:28.080 How?

00:27:29.540 So a lot of times there'll be like professors who will stand in front of the classroom and they'll say, oh, voting for Trump is an act of genocide.

00:27:37.800 Or what is another one?

00:27:40.900 There's another professor in, gosh, in the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee.

00:27:45.520 No, it's in Whitewater.

00:27:46.900 The University of Wisconsin-Whitewater, who is a former Antifa activist.

00:27:50.840 He wrote another book on Antifa, and he calls Antifa a form of self-defense.

00:27:56.820 And they continually lie to their students that Antifa somehow some sort of group or movement that should be praised, when in fact they're the ones starting a chaos and destruction all throughout the country.

00:28:07.780 I mean, these are not just incidents here and there.

00:28:12.760 Time and time again, I read stories where professors are continually indoctrinating their students.

00:28:18.540 And in my book, I label a lot or I list a lot of different examples of this.

00:28:24.420 I mean, in Colorado State University, yeah, the Colorado State University, there's a professor who said that it's time we stop taking the high road and I'm ready to punch my political opponents in the neck being conservatives.

00:28:37.820 You know, there's a lot of these professors.

00:28:40.840 So in order for us to really change the culture, we should really be going after taking back the college campus by really through doing activism and showing liberal students that there is an alternative, a peaceful alternative to the radical leftist violence.

00:28:57.060 So this is election time, obviously, you know, last night, you know, November 3rd, results didn't come out and they're both going to sue and they're going to be in court for some time, whether it's going to be this Friday, next Friday, a month, 60 days.

00:29:11.780 No one knows what's going to happen.

00:29:12.760 It doesn't look like it's going to be a very peaceful transition or no transition.

00:29:17.900 It's just going to be issues trying to recount everybody.

00:29:20.280 Whatever state Trump loses, he's going to want to recount or whatever states they lose, they're going to want to recount.

00:29:24.560 Which one do you think has the potential of creating havoc with riots and protesting if Trump wins or if Biden wins and why?

00:29:34.500 I think whoever wins, we're going to see violence.

00:29:37.400 And I'll give you my two scenarios.

00:29:39.060 Say, for example, right now, President Trump gets the election.

00:29:43.500 All of a sudden, all these radical leftists are going to say that the election is illegitimate and they're going to start plotting to try to take down the president.

00:29:51.400 Just like we saw in 2016 where they were trying to disrupt his inauguration by trying to use locks and chains to lock the D.C. metro.

00:30:02.980 I mean, that's an act of terrorism and they were trying to do that.

00:30:05.320 Luckily, the FBI got involved and they stopped that.

00:30:08.540 But we're going to see that very soon.

00:30:11.300 But at the very least, President Trump will actually take action against Antifa.

00:30:17.440 So eventually we're going to see this kind of die down a little bit because a lot of them are going to go to jail.

00:30:22.520 And rightfully, unfortunately, Joe Biden will not take the same route.

00:30:27.900 I mean, he's the person who called Antifa just an idea.

00:30:30.880 And he's soon going to realize that that idea is also against him because they're not against Donald Trump.

00:30:36.140 They're not his allies.

00:30:37.260 They're here to try to destroy American society. 0.98

00:30:40.400 And I can't stress that enough.

00:30:42.600 And the problem, though, is that President, hopefully not, a President Biden would actually incite the ire of the radical left.

00:30:52.980 Because every time something happens where there's a case of questionable police tactics or, you know, sometimes things taken out of context.

00:31:00.540 I mean, just a few days ago, we saw something in Pennsylvania rather a couple of weeks ago in which it seemed like it was a completely justified shooting by the police.

00:31:10.240 And all of a sudden, everybody started rioting.

00:31:12.020 So even in cases like that, a president and hopefully not, but a President Biden would blame America and all these liberals who are on the fence with Antifa, they would start seeing, well, if Antifa truly is systematically racist, then we have to take down America.

00:31:29.260 So he will only spark a lot more liberals to join the radical left.

00:31:35.200 So very interesting perspective to know that either way, I think the biggest thing is to know that Antifa is not left, it's not right, it's not middle, it's so far left that even an AOC is not on their camp or AOC is seen as a capitalist.

00:31:50.100 That's absolutely mind-boggling to be thinking about that.

00:31:52.460 Now, here's a question.

00:31:53.060 Would you say the same about BLM or BLM is slightly different than Antifa?

00:31:56.780 So BLM is definitely different.

00:31:58.580 I will say that there's likely a lot of overlap, but Black Lives Matter is still a Marxist organization.

00:32:03.960 But the interesting thing is that they actually use a different tactic.

00:32:08.000 I should actually explain the two different tactics.

00:32:10.620 Antifa uses something that's known as propaganda by the deed, which is invented by French anarchists.

00:32:16.300 And propaganda by the deed is a political tactic in which you enact political violence against your opponents in order to inspire others to take up arms, kind of like a call to arms kind of, if you will.

00:32:26.700 And you see this time and time again.

00:32:28.060 Every time, for example, in Portland, they would say, come on, we need more.

00:32:33.340 We're getting away with it.

00:32:34.180 We're taking that in the police.

00:32:35.580 We need more help.

00:32:36.420 That's propaganda by the deed.

00:32:37.820 Well, the Black Lives Matter movement uses a different tactic known as the mask line. 0.92

00:32:42.800 The mask line was invented by Mao Zedong, and it is the reason why China today is a communist country. 0.71

00:32:48.620 The purpose of the mask line is to infiltrate honest movements and inject them with a dose of Marxism.

00:32:55.900 So everything that is wrong in the world is because of the fault of capitalism.

00:33:01.640 And Black Lives Matter is supposed to be a movement to stop police brutality.

00:33:06.640 OK, well, when you look at their objectives up until very recently, right before the election, it was to destroy the nuclear family. 0.57

00:33:15.040 Well, that's a Marxist belief.

00:33:17.300 And that's what they're doing.

00:33:18.080 They're trying to sugarcoat Marxist beliefs into palatable statements that every American can swallow.

00:33:23.520 And I mean, everybody, a few months ago, founders of the Black Lives Matter movement said, oh, like, you know, we have an ideological framework.

00:33:30.780 We're trained organizers.

00:33:32.260 We're trained Marxists.

00:33:34.080 And there was a lot of conservatives who rightfully said, ah, see, we told you they're actually Marxists.

00:33:38.680 But a lot of people missed the phrase right before that.

00:33:42.480 We're trained organizers.

00:33:44.100 Protesters were trained in what?

00:33:46.740 They're trained to organize under the mass line.

00:33:50.680 So while there is a lot of they do use different tactics, though, there is a lot of overlap because both of them are radical leftist activists.

00:33:58.520 And it would not surprise me if a lot of the leaders from like the Black Lives Matter movement also put on the black mass from time to time, even though at the ground level, there are a lot of Black Lives Matter protesters who they don't understand that they belong to a movement that is a radical leftist movement that is not seeking to end police brutality, but to end the capitalist system as a whole.

00:34:21.040 Are you noticing this tension, create an opposition because you've got a couple of the groups coming out on the complete opposite side?

00:34:27.180 Boogaloo Boys, which is led by, you know, 22, 23 year old former Marine and Patriot Prayer.

00:34:32.900 Are you seeing the opposition also create a group like to oppose them?

00:34:37.040 Yeah, and I actually argue that it's actually pretty dangerous because every time that I hear some of the some of the things that the chants that they say, they say, oh, it's time to take back our streets from Antifa.

00:34:47.160 And it's one thing that Antifa is actually creating chaos.

00:34:52.760 But at the same time, I think it's dangerous for private groups to try to meet Antifa on the streets, because what happens when, say, I don't know, the Boogaloo Boys show up and they beat up Antifa? 0.97

00:35:04.960 Antifa doesn't go away.

00:35:06.680 They go back home and then they recruit more people.

00:35:10.140 And what happens when Antifa comes back even stronger and they beat up the Boogaloo Boys? 1.00

00:35:13.860 Well, all of a sudden, that's a call to action for them.

00:35:16.620 And then you just have a cycle of violence in which both groups feed on one another.

00:35:21.800 And ultimately, we have to put pressure on our governmental institutions of the police and elected officials to crack down on Antifa because private action against Antifa will only make things worse.

00:35:35.560 Yeah, it's going to be interesting to see what happens here and what can be done to calm the situation down.

00:35:42.480 Obviously, you know, we heard multiple times under Trump's administration calling Antifa a terrorist organization, which putting them in that category causes havoc for them and makes it a little bit more difficult for them.

00:35:54.760 But does it really slow them down?

00:35:57.360 I'm not quite sure.

00:35:58.580 So long term, what do you foresee taking place to slow down organizations such as BLM and Antifa?

00:36:03.760 Are they here to stay long term no matter what?

00:36:06.820 Well, interestingly enough, other countries do categorize Antifa as a domestic terrorist group, for example, Germany.

00:36:12.540 They actually come out with a full manual on Antifa.

00:36:15.580 But that being said, I think that for the foreseeable future, the Black Lives Matter movement will have a lot of a strong presence because they have successfully deceived countless Americans into believing that they're here fighting for black lives, which is something that, you know, it's a known for the cause.

00:36:32.880 Luckily, I think that Antifa is actually will eventually lose power because let me give you an example.

00:36:37.980 When Antifa was first introduced to the main stage, it was in 2015, when you saw them attacking Trump supporters and trying to take down President Trump.

00:36:49.320 And you had so many left wing outlets saying that they are the good guys.

00:36:53.240 For example, CNN's Camelbell, he interviewed a current member of Antifa in 2017.

00:36:58.860 And he's as she pulled out brass knuckles and knives, they were both laughing, you know, like if it was all some big joke.

00:37:05.720 In that same segment, he also interviewed a few members of the Redneck Revolt anti-fascist group.

00:37:13.900 Among them was this guy named Wilhelm Van Sprozen.

00:37:16.980 Well, he called him and then the group, the good guys.

00:37:20.780 Well, a few months later, the good guy, Wilhelm Van Sprozen, was the one who threw firebombs at an ICE facility and tried to burn down that ICE stronghold or whatever.

00:37:32.720 And it was kind of just ignored by the media.

00:37:37.100 But it's kind of interesting because you had so many journalists saying that they were the good guys.

00:37:41.540 But as soon as the American people saw what Antifa was capable of, which is the destruction of countless American cities, all of a sudden the narrative changed.

00:37:50.580 And that's when you had politicians no longer claim that Antifa was the good guys, but they said that it didn't even exist.

00:37:56.200 Representative Jerry Nadler said, oh, it's just imaginary.

00:38:00.120 And of course, Vice President Joe Biden said that it was just an idea.

00:38:05.680 And the reason the narrative changed is because that was hurting the Democratic Party and it was hurting Joe Biden because they didn't want to acknowledge the fact that just a couple of years before,

00:38:17.280 the entire Democratic Party, with some notable exceptions, was backing Antifa because they believed that they were allies.

00:38:27.180 The deeper you go into this, the deeper you can, there's more to learn about it.

00:38:31.360 I'm just hoping they make a lot of progress to slow this down.

00:38:33.780 And the part you said about the, you know, about the two different groups that could potentially go against them,

00:38:39.560 the Boogaloo Boys or the Patriot Prayer, and how much more tension that can create for them to go back and recruit more folks.

00:38:45.480 That's a very good point. We'll see what's going to take place.

00:38:47.820 Gabriel, thank you so much for being a guest on Valley Taemin.

00:38:50.040 If you want to order Gabriel's book, Behind the Black Masked, we're going to put the link below for you to order it.

00:38:54.920 Again, Gabriel, thanks for your time.

00:38:56.400 I appreciate it very much.

00:38:58.080 Different perspective when you see it from somebody that used to be part of the group and to see how much it's come along from 2011, 2012 to today

00:39:04.840 and what the vision is, who they get along with their heroes.

00:39:07.360 I want to hear your thoughts. Comment below.

00:39:08.700 And if you watch this interview and you enjoyed it, you may like my interview I had with Professor Richard Wolff,

00:39:13.480 a, you know, probably the top socialist in America with a lot of credibility.

00:39:20.200 We had a very good banter to get.

00:39:21.800 If you've never watched that, click over here to watch it.

00:39:23.940 And if you've not subscribed to the channel, please do so.

00:39:26.160 Thanks for watching, everybody. Take care. Bye-bye.

Former Antifa Activist Reveals Their True Agenda

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