Valuetainment - Former CIA Agent Reveals Human Trafficking Business Model

00:00:00.000 The CIA is not a bunch of shooters running around picking locks and climbing up the sides of

00:00:04.540 buildings, but it didn't have enough people who could operate in those types of environments,

00:00:09.000 so it started poaching from the military special ops community. That's how I got involved.

00:00:14.420 What is the business model of human trafficking that's attracting so many people to want to go

00:00:19.720 do it? Profits. This is strictly a money play. The misconception is that all human traffickers

00:00:25.860 are men and that is not the case. Many human traffickers are women. We had intelligence

00:00:31.100 on a human trafficker that was moving children across a border, and they were specifically using

00:00:37.420 those children to test bombs. Yet we have an entire government bureaucracy that we spend billions of

00:00:43.140 dollars fighting what is the illicit trade of legal commodities. Are these guys intimidated by that?

00:00:49.040 They're like, dude, you're not going to catch me. We know what we're doing. We're smarter than you.

00:00:51.740 They're thinking they're going to outsmart you every single time. The reason that there are human

00:00:55.340 trafficking victims is because there are human traffickers. So we don't need to spend all of

00:01:01.180 our time focusing on rescuing victims. We need to focus on preventing victims by getting rid of human

00:01:08.500 traffickers. My guest today may have one of the most interesting stories you've ever heard, but I'm

00:01:18.080 going to tell you why I'm saying this because we've had a lot of interesting people on valutainment.

00:01:21.940 Number one, he gets out of high school. While he's in high school, he doesn't want to attend high

00:01:26.460 school because he likes surfing. So he finds out how to hack into the high school's attendance system

00:01:31.680 and shows that he showed up all year long, but he went surfing. From there, he leads to going into

00:01:36.560 the Air Force and becomes a pararescue, which pararescue is comparable to Navy SEAL. Then he goes into

00:01:42.440 the CIA. I cannot tell you how long it is because I don't know how long it is, but it's several years he goes into

00:01:47.820 the CIA. And then afterwards, he decides to get out to go fight human trafficking. And all along,

00:01:53.780 he gets a call from Amazon and Vice saying, we want to do a story that's similar to your background

00:01:59.420 because everybody tells us what we're about to write. You're the closest thing to this person.

00:02:03.080 And that movie is Jack Ryan. With that being said, my guest today is Nick McKinley. Nick, how are you?

00:02:09.500 Hey, doing well. Doing well, Patrick. Thank you for having me.

00:02:12.140 Yeah, it's good to have you, man. I mean, when I saw your story and I said, I can't find a lot of things

00:02:18.460 on this guy. And then they said, well, that's the idea. You know, the idea isn't to have a lot of stuff

00:02:23.760 on the life that he lived. You know, sometimes you can't find a lot of stuff on him. But going back to

00:02:29.080 adults who didn't have the abilities and the intelligence that you had, can you tell us a little

00:02:36.100 bit of how did you hack into the high school's attendance system? I think that's very critical info

00:02:39.720 for us adults here. Yeah. So it was, you and I are about the same age. I believe you're about a

00:02:46.280 year older than me. And so, right, it's the 90s and the computer systems weren't quite what they,

00:02:53.060 what you would think they were. There's still a lot of like fill in the bubble, right? Put it in the

00:02:56.640 machine. Well, it turns out that you're the same, you're the same bubble and the same sheet every

00:03:04.180 single day. So if you just make sure that that little sensor is covered up, when those sheets get

00:03:09.680 fed in, it shows that you're there. And with the help of a friend who worked in the front office

00:03:17.280 and it was skiing, not surfing, actually. So I grew up in Montana. I grew up in Montana. Not a lot

00:03:22.740 of surfing in Montana. That makes sense. Yeah, there's not, the beach there, they don't have

00:03:27.340 a fascinating beach in Montana. I've not seen it at least. No, no. Lots of rocks on some really cold

00:03:32.960 lakes. Yes. I have friends who live in Montana and they swear by it. Okay. They swear by how amazing

00:03:38.920 Montana. So it's okay. I mean, your story, obviously it's, you know, a lot of different

00:03:44.340 lives that you've lived and what you've done. But so you get out of school, you're going to

00:03:50.420 pararescue, you have a lot of experience there. Take me from pararescue to wanting to become a CIA

00:03:57.380 agent. Did they approach you? Did you approach them? Was there somebody that put an award for you?

00:04:01.260 How did that whole process take place? So they actually called me.

00:04:07.160 When you're, when you're pararescing, by the way, is it common that they call you?

00:04:11.240 I think that's relatively common, especially with the wars kicking off the way that they were,

00:04:16.080 you know, contrary to what the movies show, the CIA is not, it's not a bunch of shooters running

00:04:22.920 around picking locks and climbing up the sides of buildings. And don't get me wrong. There are

00:04:27.040 people who do that, but the, the kinetic side, right? So the parts of the CIA, where you have

00:04:33.560 to take a physical fitness evaluation and annual shooting evaluations, you know, that is a very,

00:04:39.060 very, very small group of people within what is a large government agency. And when the CIA found

00:04:46.040 itself at war on multiple continents within dozens of countries, it didn't have enough people who could

00:04:52.980 operate in those types of environments. So it started poaching from the military special ops

00:04:57.840 community. And that's, that's how I got involved. Was that pretty common? Like, did you see other

00:05:03.760 friends that also got recruited or no? Oh, it's very common, very common. I was, I was the first,

00:05:09.720 I was the first person with a pararescue background to become a staff officer. But as far as what I like to

00:05:17.000 just call, you know, the guys on the team, which is where I started, that was incredibly common.

00:05:21.500 Most of my teams, if not all of them were comprised of military special operators who,

00:05:29.540 who were now working, working for the CIA. Okay. And, and when you got recruited,

00:05:34.260 did you also say you may want to call Johnny or Bobby or Larry, because he may also be good,

00:05:39.720 or is it more or less you call them and how does the recruiting process work?

00:05:44.340 So both, I, both directions, right? I mean, you don't want to, you don't want to set your buddy up

00:05:49.720 for some phone call from some random number and him, you know, think it, think it's a spam call

00:05:56.020 and miss the, miss a great opportunity. So number of my friends, I, I brought with me from the

00:06:01.460 pararescue teams and, and had them, uh, had them join me because they were, they were great operators

00:06:07.080 and great people to work with. Pararescue CIA, which job did you like more?

00:06:11.360 Oh, that is a tough question.

00:06:18.420 Pararescue was a lot more sporty. Um, uh, when, when things, when things went wrong and you were

00:06:24.300 getting called to work as a pararescue man, uh, it was, it was sporty, um, a lot, a lot more jumping

00:06:31.220 out of planes and, and whatnot. But the, the thing about the CIA that I really liked was there was very

00:06:38.520 little training time and that, that can also be a bad thing, but there was very little training time

00:06:43.200 for the most part. You were operational constantly. We were so undermanned. Uh, you're spending 10 plus

00:06:49.920 months a year out of the country bouncing around the most hostile environments on the planet. And,

00:06:56.360 uh, there, there wasn't, there wasn't time to go take three months and to go take a three month

00:07:02.020 training cycle, like you could in pararescue. It was, it was constantly on the road.

00:07:07.540 How do you, how do you manage that in personal life at the same time? I mean, it's, it's,

00:07:11.080 it's, you know, my buddy, I talked to you about, uh, you was also special ops on what he did.

00:07:16.420 You know, he said, you know, he was on a start marriage wise, you know, that, that he went through,

00:07:22.040 he said, it's very difficult to hold it together when you're doing what you do. Cause you're on the road,

00:07:25.980 10 months out of the year, you don't know where you're going to be at.

00:07:27.800 How did you manage your personal life as a CIA agent or pararescue?

00:07:32.500 Uh, so my first marriage, uh, ended in a ball of flames. Uh, I mean, it was, yeah, it wasn't good.

00:07:40.240 Uh, so, so I could say that I actually didn't properly manage my, uh, my personal life. Professional

00:07:46.160 life was on a rocket ship. Uh, personal life was an absolute disaster. And, uh, so, uh, when I joined

00:07:53.960 the agency, they told me, uh, you know, they said, you know, are you sure you want to do this?

00:07:58.820 The unit you're going into as an 86% divorce rate. And of course the mindset of, of people like us is

00:08:06.200 that, oh, well, that's the other folks. That's not going to be me. Yeah. Right. Everything I'd done

00:08:10.600 to this point in life. I mean, you know, there was an 8% chance I was going to become a pararescue

00:08:14.920 management did it 1% chance. I was going to, um, get into the agency did it. So, oh, 14% chance of

00:08:22.100 making a marriage work. I like those odds. Yeah. That didn't work out well for me. So, uh, so you

00:08:27.560 don't. And, and then when I was, uh, I was dating my now wife, um, we, we got married after I left

00:08:33.820 the agency. Uh, I went a six month period where she saw me for about three days and six months, like

00:08:41.100 physically saw me for about three days and six months. And, and for the first majority of that,

00:08:46.360 I was actually under a cover. So it wasn't until she came to me and said, you know, are you a drug

00:08:53.060 dealer? You know, what's going on? Because this just doesn't make sense. And I'd already been

00:08:59.360 authorized by the agency to break cover and tell her, you know, where, you know, where I was, um,

00:09:04.980 or not necessarily where I was, but what I was doing.

00:09:07.280 Well, I got to tell you, it means, please don't take this as a personally, but you know,

00:09:12.920 I'm about to judge you a little bit, if that's okay with you, when I'm looking at you, you look

00:09:17.800 like a one of four professions. Okay. You either look like a drug dealer or you look like a hit man.

00:09:23.100 You look like a CIA agent, or you look like Ben Affleck's character from the movie accountant.

00:09:27.860 Like you look like you're somebody that you shouldn't mess with your eyes have a lot of fire in them.

00:09:32.540 Like you're calculating and studying every move of the opponent. You just look like that guy. So

00:09:37.140 I don't know if that's an edge or not, but you have a certain look about yourself

00:09:41.520 that, uh, maybe it was fitting for you to do what you did as a CIA agent.

00:09:46.100 So funny, uh, that you say that because the first time I did an undercover operation,

00:09:51.400 I was going through a middle Eastern country and I was flying civilian and they had one of their

00:09:57.140 intelligence agents just sitting there watching people get off the plane.

00:10:01.340 And as soon as I got off the plane, the guy stood up and walked up to me and said, excuse me,

00:10:06.240 sir, would you follow me? And showed me a badge and, and, uh, you know, what are you doing?

00:10:11.240 And I, you know, fed him my story and he said, that's great. Uh, you have a 26 hour layover before

00:10:16.720 your next, uh, before your next flight, you can't leave the airport. Uh, well, luckily the airport had

00:10:22.540 a, had a Starbucks, which had about the only padded chair in the whole, in the whole airport.

00:10:27.080 So I sat there, uh, while their security guys just sat there smoking cigarettes, watching me.

00:10:32.080 Uh, and I didn't want to go to sleep. That didn't seem like that could go, that could go well for

00:10:36.760 me. So, so yeah, that, that look doesn't really help you out all that much, but it's also really

00:10:42.680 difficult to get rid of.

00:10:43.760 You know, what's crazy. The, the, while we're talking about the guy, that's the special ops guy,

00:10:48.880 he's calling me right now. You know, when's the last time I talked to this guy a long time ago,

00:10:52.180 he's calling me right now. How random is this that he's calling me right now? Anyways, I'm not going

00:10:56.340 to pick up cause it'll freak him out thinking like we're up to something with him. So I don't want to

00:11:00.320 spook him even more. Uh, but, uh, so let, let's go through the process. Okay. So you got

00:11:06.060 pararescue CIA then human trafficking. So, so make the connection between CIA to wanting to go

00:11:16.240 like what event happened? What did you see? What bothered you? What annoyed you? What inspired you

00:11:22.180 to say? This is what I want to do moving forward. How did that take place? It's not what I wanted to

00:11:27.420 do moving forward. It's what it was my duty to do this moving forward, because this isn't the human

00:11:34.220 trafficking issue is something that once you really understand it and you understand what's

00:11:38.120 going on, you can't not do something right. As William Wilberforce said, you can't look away.

00:11:44.600 And so it was a sequence of events over a period of about a little over seven years. Um, but it really

00:11:51.480 culminated. I was in Lashkar, Afghanistan, uh, working for various government bureaucracies.

00:11:58.540 And we had, uh, what I like to call smoking gun intelligence. Uh, I was a staff officer working

00:12:06.520 with a JSOF JSOC counterpart, uh, joint special operations command counterpart. And we had intelligence

00:12:13.620 on a human trafficker that was moving children across a border. And they were specifically using

00:12:20.400 those children to test bombs. We had video of this. So this became very, very, uh, emotionally charged

00:12:27.400 issue for us. Moving children to test bombs. Yeah. To test bombs. What does that mean? Uh, he was,

00:12:35.720 he was building pressure plates, um, out of, uh, materials that you would find at a junkyard. I don't

00:12:42.300 want to say exactly what it was and how he was doing it, but he was building pressure plates and he wanted

00:12:47.200 to make sure that those pressure plates would, um, would go off if a human stepped on them, but they,

00:12:54.040 he didn't want a dog or a cat or somebody to, you know, detonate his bomb. And so as he was testing

00:13:00.880 these, he was, he was using, he was using young boys, uh, and, and would literally have them go walk

00:13:07.280 around in a field where he had these pressure plates buried and once, uh, you know, to, to see,

00:13:13.780 to see if they worked. And you personally witnessed this? Uh, we, we had video of it. Yes.

00:13:19.620 So we wrote up, we wrote up the Intel. Uh, we had, uh, we had somebody who was telling us, uh, this

00:13:29.280 stuff and, and we wrote it all up and sent it up the, sent it up the chain and there was nobody,

00:13:35.580 nobody really cared. Everybody thought, oh, this is very sad, but, but nobody really cared. And that

00:13:41.200 made me curious, uh, in a, in a bad way almost. Right. And so when you have that level of security

00:13:47.620 clearance, right, if you work at CIA, you have the highest security clearance you can get, uh, TSSCI

00:13:53.520 with a full scope poly, uh, and there's nothing that's off limits to you. So I got on the computer

00:13:59.800 system and started looking for that magic red door of competence that was fighting human trafficking.

00:14:06.260 And what I learned over a period of years of, you know, digging around and classified systems and

00:14:11.340 talking to everybody I knew, and, and, you know, a bunch of special ops guys run this experiment

00:14:15.940 yourself, go ask them how many operations they've ever done that involved going after a human

00:14:21.920 track trafficker. And what you'll find is that they'll tell you none. There's a bomb maker who

00:14:28.740 maybe was also selling kids on the side or a drug dealer who also was, was moving people. But,

00:14:34.620 but as far as going after somebody, because they were enslaving humans, I, all I know were special

00:14:42.000 ops guys. And I couldn't find a single one who could tell me that they'd done an operation against

00:14:46.700 a human trafficker. And then fast forward a little bit. Why not though? It's not a presidential

00:14:55.400 reporting requirement. So at the end of the day, everybody who works in the government is just a

00:15:01.880 soldier who's doing what the, the bureaucracy at the top, what the administration in charge

00:15:08.600 says to do. And, and, and let me ask you a question. Uh, you're, uh, you're in Texas, correct?

00:15:16.780 I'm in Florida and I just moved here three weeks ago, but I have an office in my headquarters is in

00:15:20.800 Dallas, Texas. And my headquarters is in Dallas, Texas, right? Right on Oklahoma Maple. Okay. Um,

00:15:26.560 so, uh, so yeah, so we have a bureau of alcohol, tobacco, and firearms. Most people in Texas and

00:15:33.880 their office have alcohol, tobacco, and firearms within arm's reach, uh, probably Florida too. Uh,

00:15:40.360 yet we have an entire government bureaucracy that we spend billions of dollars fighting. What is the

00:15:46.860 illicit trade of legal commodities? We have a drug enforcement agency. 90% of drugs are legal. More and

00:15:54.200 more drugs are becoming legal. Yet we have an entire government bureaucracy that spends tens of

00:15:59.740 billions of dollars a year fighting the illicit sale of legal commodities. The 13th amendment makes 100%

00:16:09.100 of slavery. Cause that's what we're talking about, right? Human trafficking is just a very, very, very cushy

00:16:14.520 word for slavery. 100% of slavery is illegal yet. Who's got the ball on that issue? Who actually does

00:16:22.680 them? Who does have the ball on that? So the department of justice, uh, great, you know,

00:16:28.600 great agents doing what they can, but there's not enough of them. Uh, you've got department of

00:16:33.900 Homeland security. They, they try to do some work around human trafficking, but department of Homeland

00:16:38.040 security is very politicized. Uh, right now they've got handcuffs on them on this issue. Uh, you've got

00:16:44.240 state and local law enforcement are really the ones that do the major majority of the heavy lifting.

00:16:49.280 Uh, we were just involved in the human trafficking task force, uh, at the super bowl, multiple human

00:16:55.500 traffickers arrested, multiple victims free. The major majority of the agents we were working with

00:16:59.840 were state and local, right? They were County Sheriff's deputies. They were local police, uh,

00:17:06.140 who were, who were doing this work yet. There's no intelligence center that ties all these people

00:17:12.320 together that ties all these cases together. There's no software platform that, that becomes the easy

00:17:18.560 button for fighting human trafficking, right? Because a law enforcement officer can't go put

00:17:24.280 handcuffs on a bad guy and start doing intelligence work on a computer at the same time.

00:17:30.360 So while I did was say, well, this is a problem to still it down to its foundational principles,

00:17:36.360 which are primarily academic, right? It's important that we remove the emotion from this issue and look

00:17:41.120 at it for what it is and said, well, this is a lot like terrorism and fighting narcotics overseas,

00:17:47.080 which quite frankly, the taxpayers should be very proud of the government and the people who are

00:17:52.920 fighting terrorism because we're, we're arguably the best in the world at it. And if, if the, the process

00:18:00.280 that we've learned over 20 years of war works for fighting terrorism, then why won't it work for human

00:18:07.320 trafficking? That's the thesis. And so in 2015, when I started deliver funds specifically to, to go after

00:18:13.960 that problem and take that counter-terrorism methodology and turn it into counter-human

00:18:18.440 trafficking, and it's been working beyond our wildest imaginations of, of how, how well it could

00:18:27.960 have worked. And we're just getting warmed up. I want to, I want to come to your system. I'll come,

00:18:32.040 come back to the system of what you guys do, but I saw an article here. I almost didn't believe it. I said,

00:18:37.640 I'm going to ask, and they can see what you're going to say about it. This is from a year and a half ago.

00:18:42.360 Business Insider wrote an article, 20 Staggering Facts About Human Trafficking in the U.S. First

00:18:49.560 one was human trafficking wasn't illegal, meaning it was legal until 2020, when the Trafficking Victims

00:18:58.760 Protection Act was passed, which made it a federal crime. Then President George W. Bush signing the

00:19:06.040 William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2008.

00:19:12.760 What does that mean, human trafficking wasn't illegal until 2000?

00:19:17.160 Well, that's a little bit of, of some click bait. So, so it's always been illegal. It's just been

00:19:24.360 called other things, right? Such as. So, it was usually prosecuted under the MAN Act, or pimping and

00:19:33.240 pandering, or what we, what we look at at these, at these, as these kind of prostitution, commercial

00:19:40.520 sex related charges, right? So you'd have a human trafficking victim who, we have two human trafficking

00:19:46.600 victims who, who work for us at Deliver Fund. And they'll tell you that every time they got into

00:19:51.160 contact with law enforcement, they looked at them as prostitutes. They were being forced to do what they

00:19:56.280 were doing. And so all the Trafficking Victim Protection Act did was, was put a wrapper on

00:20:01.720 what was actually happening. So it defined what human trafficking was. So it's not that human

00:20:08.840 trafficking was legal, right? It's still a crime to force somebody to do something. It's just,

00:20:13.800 we didn't have it all packaged up into one law. And so the Trafficking Victim Protection Act said that,

00:20:21.240 to, to distill down the language, you are guilty of human trafficking if you are controlling somebody

00:20:28.920 and forcing them to work for your economic benefit, or, or the economic benefit of somebody other than

00:20:34.600 themselves, and you're controlling them through force, fraud, or coercion. And what we learned in

00:20:40.280 doing this work is that it's actually it always starts with fraud. Rarely does this start with

00:20:46.760 force or, or coercion, it usually almost always starts with fraud, and then becomes force or coercion

00:20:56.280 as the method of control once once they've defrauded the individual. What does that mean? Once they've

00:21:01.560 defrauded the individual? What does that mean? So let's take a case of labor trafficking, you get,

00:21:06.360 you know, young girl from Vietnam answers an ad in, you know, Ho Chi Minh City for nannies in the United

00:21:17.400 States. And she thinks she's going to come over here and, and be a nanny for some wealthy family,

00:21:23.240 and they interview her and make her think all of this. And then they get her over here, they take

00:21:27.560 her passport, and they stick her in an apartment brothel in New York. That's, that's what I mean by

00:21:32.440 fraud. You see, we saw the same thing out of Eastern Europe, there were nurses who were being

00:21:39.400 recruited out of Eastern Europe, and, and, and the Balkans area as well. And they were bringing them

00:21:46.280 over here telling them they were going to be nurses in the United States, took their passports, stuck

00:21:51.240 them in a apartment brothel. And then you have even here in the United States, because major majority of

00:21:56.680 human trafficking victims are, are US citizens, who are being trafficked by US citizens and sold

00:22:02.840 to US citizens, right, there's a US problem. So you get a young girl at high school, befriends the

00:22:09.880 older guy that she meets at the mall, he showers her with gifts, gains her trust, and then finally gets

00:22:16.920 her to a party drugs her, you can use your imagination from there. And now she's, you know, psychologically

00:22:22.760 destroyed, and he's got control of her for life.

00:22:29.400 So, I mean, just thinking about it, it's, you know, some movies do a good job painting the picture of

00:22:36.120 what happens with this. I think even recently, one of them was Rambo, I never thought the direction of

00:22:40.840 the story would have gone with Rambo was about human trafficking. I don't know if you saw the movie,

00:22:44.680 Rambo. Oh, you're not a movie guy. Just yeah, I didn't. I didn't see it. The movie was about human

00:22:50.120 trafficking on what happened to his niece. With what Sly had to do go out there and try to save

00:22:55.240 her. But by then it was too late, because that drugged her way too much that she couldn't make it.

00:22:59.720 150 billion dollar your industry, it's a pretty big industry 150 billion out of your industry.

00:23:04.920 When I see stats different places $99 billion $150 billion global all these numbers. What is the

00:23:12.120 business model of human trafficking that's attracting so many people to want to go do it?

00:23:17.720 Profits. Profits. That's, that's, that's, this is, this is strictly a money play for these human

00:23:23.480 traffickers. It's very low risk. Right now, we've been, we've been increasing the risk, but it's very

00:23:31.000 low risk. You know, if you're moving a kilo of cocaine, a drug dog can kick that can can pick that

00:23:36.920 up with sensors that can pick that up. If you're moving some scantily clad girls in the back of a car,

00:23:42.920 and you're maintaining the speed limits and your brake lights are good. Nobody knows that you're

00:23:48.040 moving slaves. And so, I mean, imagine if all of your employees, you didn't have to pay them.

00:23:53.800 Well, what just happened to your profit margins? Right. And, and so that's why,

00:23:58.040 that's why they're doing this is it's just sheer slavery. It's an predominantly there is forced labor

00:24:05.400 that happens in the United States, but the predominant business model is commercial sex. But at the end of

00:24:10.040 the day, that's just the type of labor that the human trafficker is selling. And so some,

00:24:17.160 some woman that, and it's also, it touches the LGBTQ community, it touches, it touches all these

00:24:25.720 vulnerable populations. They are exploiting these people, these human traffickers are exploiting these

00:24:32.360 people by making them work and not paying them. And so their, their, their profit margins are

00:24:40.680 essentially, you know, 80, 90, 95%. What, what is the, uh, uh, have you guys noticed a pattern or a trend

00:24:50.920 of a human trafficker? So somebody who is doing it, what is a typical pattern? Are you noticing a

00:24:57.240 consistency with a pattern or is it just a criminal? That's all it is. They just kind of want to make money.

00:25:01.960 Any kind of patterns you guys have found? Yes. Uh, so we, we build our own software. Uh, we,

00:25:08.440 we have our own data collection and we, we have those patterns. We actually sit on top of the

00:25:13.720 largest human trafficking database in existence, uh, largest and cleanest, uh, got over 70 law

00:25:20.120 enforcement agencies around the United States that are all kind of working together on this database.

00:25:25.000 And so what that, what that means is we've been able to take this very, very clean data and start

00:25:32.040 analyzing it for patterns. And now we're getting to the point where our software is actually just

00:25:36.920 going to be able to actually can bring human trafficking to our attention. So we know exactly

00:25:41.800 how they work and really their Achilles heel. You know, I talk about this on, on other podcasts

00:25:47.480 and people say, well, Nick, how can you talk about what you're doing? Don't you need to be secret

00:25:50.440 about it? Nope. I don't. Because if, if your business model is that you need to be secretive

00:25:54.600 about something, well, that's not scalable and that's, that's not going to work. Uh,

00:25:59.720 human traffickers have to advertise if customers want to find, you know, a date for the night,

00:26:06.280 so to speak, right? That usually the customers think it's prostitution, uh, and they, they want

00:26:11.560 to find that girl. They go to the internet. That's where this is all advertised because if they put the

00:26:16.040 girl on the street, law enforcement can find it, right? Law enforcement has the right to go approach

00:26:20.600 her and talk to her. She might wrap the trafficker out. So it's a lot easier to keep her locked into a

00:26:25.720 locked in a hotel room and advertise her online. And there's, there's dozens of websites online.

00:26:32.200 I mean, you could, you could get to these websites. If you know where you're going,

00:26:35.080 this is not in the deep and dark web. This is the front facing internet. Uh, the big famous one

00:26:40.280 that everybody was aware of, uh, that the DOJ took down was backpage.com. Uh, and so you go to those,

00:26:47.720 you go to those websites, you schedule a date with a girl. Uh, there's a human trafficker who's

00:26:53.240 advertising that girl online and, and the transaction happens. So that's the Achilles heel

00:26:59.640 of, of the whole human trafficking market in the, in the United States is that it's predominantly online.

00:27:07.320 And so if you're online, that means you're leaving a trail and we're really good at, at, at, uh,

00:27:14.280 uh, chasing down those trails and seeing where they lead. So I just looked at backpage.com founder,

00:27:19.640 Michael Lacey, who was Michael Lacey. Uh, he is currently, uh, under house arrest. Um, he was

00:27:26.600 actually, uh, so the village voice, which was a publication out of New York, right from the seventies,

00:27:32.040 I think, um, they had the back page when the back page was right. It was a lot of your, uh, your

00:27:38.520 prostitution massage parlors, a lot of human trafficking. Uh, and then they took, they took

00:27:44.600 that back page of the newspaper and took it online and started selling $1 advertisements, um, to people

00:27:52.440 who were predominantly engaged in the commercial sex industry. And, uh, everybody, uh, their, their whole

00:27:58.920 C-suite was arrested. They all pled guilty. Uh, Michael, including himself. I know Michael Lacey.

00:28:05.080 And, um, I can't remember the other founder's name off the top of my head, but they're fighting

00:28:09.880 the charges cause they're old. Um, and you know, they're, they're going to come out of prison in a

00:28:15.080 pine box if, uh, if they get convicted or should we say when they get convicted? So they are,

00:28:19.160 How did, how did, how did the law enforcement find out that back page was doing this behind closed doors?

00:28:25.880 Uh, we, we decided we deliver fund decided to make back page our hobby.

00:28:30.520 Uh, so you did that. You went after back page cause I see 2018 and you've been around for six years.

00:28:35.560 So we were, uh, we were one of many, many members of a, of a team. Uh, the, the, the real credit goes

00:28:44.440 to federal law enforcement and, uh, and actually, uh, Texas AG's office, they did a phenomenal job.

00:28:51.000 Uh, there's some law enforcement in Arizona that was working the case as well. But when it came,

00:28:56.600 when it came to kind of coordinating a lot of the intelligence work and passing that off,

00:29:01.960 uh, we did, uh, we did a lion's share of that for sure. So Carl Ferrer, who was the CEO of back page,

00:29:08.440 I believe that's the name you were trying to think about it. Did they know that human trafficking was

00:29:14.840 taking place and they kind of looked the other way? Is that what the challenge was?

00:29:18.120 Yes, they absolutely know that. How did they know that? Because it's egregious. Uh, I mean, and any,

00:29:24.040 any, any person who was looking at what was happening, uh, on their platform, uh, I mean,

00:29:31.240 they, they knew what was happening and, and the DOJ actually has communications. If you research

00:29:35.960 the back, back page case, you'll find that's why they pled guilty is because they were literally

00:29:40.680 talking about it on their, on their corporate communications. Uh, so they have the servers,

00:29:45.640 they have everything that they were talking about and they have them talking about the fact that they knew

00:29:50.120 this was happening. Um, and they were, they, they were, let me give you an example of the kind of

00:29:55.960 thing that was happening there. There was a, uh, a, a 12 year old girl who was advertised by a human

00:30:02.520 trafficker on back page. Right. So you could tell along with a photo, um, and he put her age as 12 years

00:30:09.560 old. Well, back pages moderators changed the age to 18 and then let the ad go home. Come on.

00:30:18.600 Absolutely evil. I mean, just, just evil. So, so I'm looking at alternative to back page. So I'm

00:30:25.240 assuming you target craiglist.com, OLX, Facebook, KG, free ads. What, what are the websites you target

00:30:32.360 that can do exactly what back page did? Uh, so I'm not going to give the names of the, of the, uh,

00:30:38.680 websites that we target actively. Uh, these websites are very profitable and I'm not interested in,

00:30:44.600 uh, I'm not interested in that fight. Um, and, and more importantly, uh, people who don't know where

00:30:51.240 to go telling them where to go. Uh, but there's, uh, there's about 32 sites right now that are,

00:30:57.800 are the primary sites where the source data comes from. Uh, and we, we are actively, uh,

00:31:05.480 we're actively collecting from all of those sites. So let me ask you this, when you're dealing with a

00:31:10.280 company that say, they don't know that that is taking place. And then they find out based on the

00:31:17.160 proof you show. Cause I think your model isn't, you go attack them. Your model is you go team up

00:31:22.120 with a 70 or 60 law enforcement organization that you work with. You no longer kick the doors down. You

00:31:28.040 give the Intel to those to go kick the doors. And I think if after doing some research on your

00:31:32.040 business model, that's your business model, right? Correct. Okay. So, so you find out a company that's a

00:31:38.440 real company. They have somebody who's a human trafficker leveraging the, the, the, the clientele,

00:31:46.600 the traffic that's coming to that website. Do you then contact them and have the business work with

00:31:52.600 you to get more of that data for you to pass down to law enforcement? Like the, do the companies now

00:31:58.120 help become a teammate with you? That's always the first, uh, that's always the first place that we

00:32:04.520 start. Um, so we have very, very, uh, publicly recognizable partners, uh, publicly traded companies

00:32:12.680 that we work with to help them keep human traffickers off of their platform. But a lot of these websites,

00:32:19.480 they specifically moved their business operations overseas into non-friendly, non-US or, uh,

00:32:26.760 non-friendly non-extradition U S country or, uh, uh, countries so that they're not subject to U S

00:32:33.240 jurisdiction. That's kind of part of the problem. So how do you battle that right now? There's nothing

00:32:39.640 we can really do on that. Um, we, we have a way of, uh, of diluting their market, uh, which we don't

00:32:46.120 talk about publicly to make it so that it just complicates their business, right? It just, it just makes

00:32:52.120 it so that the, the, the trafficker can never quite get his product in front of the customer

00:32:57.960 and the customer can never quite find a real product. So we have ways of, of complicating

00:33:03.160 that a little bit. Um, but primarily the way that, the way that we deal with that is, uh,

00:33:08.760 is by getting these human traffickers arrested. And that's, that's one, one key thing that we need to

00:33:13.480 focus on is in order to have a human trafficking victim, which is the reason we're doing this,

00:33:18.840 right? Uh, human traffickers are bad people. They're going to do bad things. Um, there's

00:33:23.960 nothing Nick can do about that. However, they are, they're exploiting people. They're harming

00:33:29.400 children. And so the reason that there are human trafficking victims is because there are human

00:33:36.440 traffickers. So we don't need to spend all of our time focusing on, on rescuing victims. We need to

00:33:43.400 focus on preventing victims by getting rid of human traffickers. Makes sense. Yeah, that, that,

00:33:50.680 that makes sense. And, uh, so, so sometime when you're, you guys have to wrestle with pigs quite

00:33:56.920 often, right? Yourself, like you, you have to get dirty yourself in order for you to be able to, uh,

00:34:01.240 make their life a living kill. I know, I know you can't say yes or not, but your world is not like,

00:34:07.480 Hey, let's take the proper route and you know, let's, you have to make their life a living kill

00:34:12.680 by playing some of their games against them. No. So not so much playing their games against them.

00:34:18.040 Um, you know, everything that we do is reviewed by legal counsel. Um, we work with prosecutors,

00:34:24.200 love us, uh, and we wouldn't be able to, we wouldn't be able to do the things that we did if our,

00:34:29.720 if the work that we put together was not admissible in court. All right. And, and everything that we do is

00:34:35.800 admissible in court. We're open to discovery. It's, uh, it's a very, very above board operation.

00:34:42.280 Um, but what we do is we infiltrate their communications. Uh, and I hope there are

00:34:47.560 human traffickers out there right now, listening to that and wondering whether or not that person

00:34:51.640 they're communicating with online is actually one of my intelligence analysts. Uh, we infiltrate

00:34:56.680 their communications where they're, they're, they're sharing best practices. They're, um, they're,

00:35:02.040 they literally will, will coordinate with each other to say, Hey, you know, the Superbowl is

00:35:06.520 coming to my town. Um, I've only got three girls. I need, I need other guys to come down and bring

00:35:12.520 more girls so that we can service what is a market opportunity for them. Uh, and that's a, a key

00:35:18.360 differentiator in the way that we fight human trafficking is we fight it as a market. We fight

00:35:22.680 it through economics where in your business and in my other business, I'm always trying to reduce risk,

00:35:29.080 right. Where I was trying to mitigate it. What our whole, what we do at deliver fund is we increase

00:35:35.640 market risk for the human traffickers to cut into their profit margins and make it harder for them

00:35:40.200 to do business. Yeah. But human traffickers kind of like, uh, obviously you'll see where I'm going

00:35:46.840 with this. Uh, uh, Nick, only 7% of people are going to graduate prairie rescue. Watch me do it.

00:35:52.280 Only 1% is going to become a CIA. Watch me do it. 86%, which is only 14% of people that do what you're

00:35:58.040 doing right now. Their marriage ends up at a divorce. Oh, if I beat 7% and 1%, I'm going to

00:36:03.080 beat 14%. That's not a problem. I got it. Right. Are these guys intimidated by that? They're like,

00:36:08.120 dude, you're not going to catch me. We know what we're doing. We're smarter than you. They're

00:36:10.680 thinking they're going to outsmart you every single time because, and, and here, here's the

00:36:15.080 misconception. You know what I'm saying, right? You know, absolutely. But here's the misconception

00:36:18.680 about human trafficking, right? People will say that human trafficking is the largest growing

00:36:22.040 criminal enterprise. It's just not true. Uh, narcotics and guns, especially with all the

00:36:26.680 wars going on around the world. Um, narcotics and guns are, you know, illegal gun running as,

00:36:31.720 as hands down the largest illicit commodities. Uh, the next is, uh, people will say, well,

00:36:36.840 you can actually make more money from, uh, you know, from selling human trafficking victims

00:36:43.640 than you can from narcotics or guns. That is also not true because you can have a shipping container

00:36:49.160 full of cocaine or AKs sitting in a port somewhere and you can leave it there for two years. And those,

00:36:55.640 the drugs and the guns are worth just as much as they were, uh, when you put that container there,

00:37:00.040 you can't do that with people, right? People have, people require overhead. You have to house them.

00:37:07.080 You have to feed them. You have to keep them in at least good enough conditions so that customers

00:37:12.040 want to spend some time with them. Uh, and that's, that's, that's the Achilles heel that cuts

00:37:17.880 into the profit margins of, of human traffickers. And so most of your smart criminals, I mean,

00:37:24.360 your, your people who would be curing cancer, were they not criminals? Um, most of them are into some

00:37:31.080 type of organized crime around either narcotics or guns or, you know, ripping off banks, credit

00:37:37.720 card fraud, those types of things. It's actually, uh, and, and, uh, there are exceptions to this rule,

00:37:44.920 but it's, it's not your smartest criminals who are human traffickers. There's also a piece here,

00:37:50.760 you know, I saw in doing research that you, you've interviewed many members of, of, of the mob.

00:37:56.920 My guess is if you go ask them what they think about human trafficking, they're going to say,

00:38:01.160 that's over the line. And if we found somebody doing that in our organization,

00:38:05.160 they were going to end up in a box. Um, and that's what happens with a lot of these,

00:38:09.800 these criminal enterprises too, is, uh, you know, you'll have, you'll have, uh, uh, you know,

00:38:15.480 narcotics criminal enterprises who aren't, aren't going to allow their people to start harming

00:38:23.320 children. So, so even within the criminal underworld, there's, there's an ethic line

00:38:30.760 when it comes to children that people won't cross. Oh, there's no question about it. Uh,

00:38:37.160 and they even had a code, the La Cosa Nosa, they wouldn't touch drugs, although several people did,

00:38:41.480 but that was part of their code as well. Um, so not the smartest criminals. Okay. So not the

00:38:47.080 smartest criminals, meaning they're not trying to play the, Oh, I'm going to beat the odds of 7%,

00:38:52.600 1%, 14%. So you're saying they're scared. Like if you scare them, they run away like a little cat.

00:38:57.160 Is it, are they, are they scared criminals? Like, can you scare them away from the industry or no?

00:39:02.520 No, not really. Uh, most of them, this is all they know. Okay. So business model to catch them.

00:39:11.480 I'm just, I'm not in your world, but I'm just thinking about it. So if it's Superbowl and these

00:39:17.640 are the girls that are doing it, you know, they're coming in and Hey, customers go, people are going to,

00:39:22.040 they're going to go online to get somebody. Hey, I had one too many drinks. Let me call somebody.

00:39:26.440 How do I find somebody? Hey, we got, so is the business model to go to the Superbowl and go find

00:39:34.040 those sites and call a hundred, 200, 300, 400 of them. Then you send your guys to go meet with the

00:39:43.240 girls. And then you tell the girls that you're willing to help them out and interrogate them to

00:39:51.400 get a feel if they are working with somebody and then you have them come with you. You can't get

00:39:57.000 all 300 of them because they're scared for their lives that, that, you know, individuals, it's the

00:40:01.080 relationship with the pimp and the prostitute. And you know how that relationship, it's fear-based.

00:40:05.720 Absolutely. Then you convince a percentage to go with you and then you backtrack,

00:40:12.200 giving them protection and safety. And then through backtracking, you find out who it is and then you go

00:40:18.600 track them down. But at that point, they know that you've taken some of their people. So they're

00:40:22.040 probably on the run. Is that part of the business model? At least not yours. Cause you're not the

00:40:25.960 one that does that. You just give Intel. Is that one part of the business model that the law enforcement

00:40:30.680 does or no? Yeah. So that's, that's exactly what law enforcement does. Uh, law enforcement, you know,

00:40:36.280 gets in front of the girls, uh, because you gotta, you gotta have a witness, right? You gotta, you gotta

00:40:40.360 have, you gotta have proof, uh, gets in front of them and says, Hey, you know, and usually a lot of

00:40:45.320 times using our Intel, here's what we know about you. We know that you, you, and that girl over

00:40:50.120 there are actually all connected. And we know that you're run by this guy. We know that he's sitting

00:40:54.040 in a car in the parking lot. Um, all we need you to do is, is tell us that he's holding you against

00:40:59.720 your will. And, uh, and we got this, or in many, many cases, what, what can happen is, uh, you know,

00:41:06.120 the human trafficker is controlling the girl. So he'll go drop her off at, at whatever venue. And as,

00:41:13.800 as, uh, as he's dropping her off, law enforcement swoops in and, uh, and catches them together.

00:41:19.800 So, so you, you do have those types of cases, but some of these are very, very insidious. Uh, we had

00:41:25.080 a case in the Southwestern United States where the girl was on her own. So we thought she was a human

00:41:30.120 trafficking victim. We were sure she was a human trafficking victim. And our analysts, uh, are

00:41:34.760 really, really good. Yet when the law enforcement wrapped her up, she was on her own. Well, after

00:41:40.440 questioning her for about 20, 30 minutes, she broke down crying and the human trafficker had her baby

00:41:45.560 and was threatening to hurt her baby and had her baby in another city. And that was the handle he

00:41:51.160 was using to control her.

00:41:53.000 Yeah. Makes sense. What a way to hold somebody hostage. Um, so how much does the U S government

00:42:01.240 to, to, to fight what you guys are fighting? You can't do with a couple million dollars.

00:42:05.400 How much is the U S government putting behind this? Like how much are they saying we are going

00:42:09.480 to fight human trafficking? We're going to put up this much money and then go and help certain

00:42:13.320 organizations to, you know, accelerate the process of eliminating, if not as much as we can,

00:42:18.360 to get rid of human trafficking. So the U S government spends less than a dollar per human

00:42:26.760 trafficking victim globally, globally, which is globally. It's a 20 to 40 million people globally.

00:42:33.160 So you're telling me it's only 20 to $40 million a year. The last numbers we had are that the U S

00:42:39.640 government spends $22 million a year fighting human traffic, like specifically dedicated to fighting

00:42:45.720 human trafficking. So, so, so let me ask you why, um, so which, which president has been the most,

00:42:55.640 is it because it's an uncomfortable topic for presidents to campaign behind that no one wants

00:43:00.360 to talk about? Cause it's, you know, it's a little bit of an uncomfortable topic, you know,

00:43:04.280 to talk about human trafficking. Why haven't presidents campaigned behind something like this

00:43:09.240 and made it an issue for people to say, yeah, I think we need to put, I mean, right now we just did

00:43:13.960 $1.9 trillion, right? Okay. What's the big deal. If you put 10 billion behind something like this,

00:43:19.400 this is actually emotionally painful to the parents that lost their kid and they go through this. And

00:43:26.440 you know, when someone goes through this to get them back to live in a normal life, and rather than

00:43:31.560 wanting to commit a suicide, the percentages are so high that very rarely do you get them back to being

00:43:36.840 normal. It's a very, it's a big fight that they have. And it takes years. It doesn't take three,

00:43:41.320 six months. And many times it takes three, four or five years to get them back to saying, okay,

00:43:45.160 this is not your fault. You didn't do this. It's okay. You got to move on. Why wouldn't the

00:43:49.800 government want to fund this and put some money behind it? That's a great question. And I don't

00:43:54.840 have an answer for that. This is a, this is such a problem. And it kind of goes back to what I said

00:44:01.960 in the beginning. Like we have whole government bureaucracies that spend tens of billions of dollars to

00:44:07.880 fight legal, the illicit sale of legal commodities. Yet we don't have a single government agency that

00:44:16.840 is focused on this issue. And why, you know, why, when I was at the CIA, did we have this intelligence

00:44:25.560 on a human trafficker in another country? And was there nowhere to send it? You know, why is,

00:44:31.320 why is Delta not being sent in to go take down, you know, major human traffickers overseas?

00:44:38.440 I mean, these, these are legitimate questions we need to be asking of our politicians and our

00:44:43.320 policymakers to say, why is this not a priority? And, and, and human or politicians do campaign on

00:44:52.120 this issue. I mean, if you, if you look at it, they talk about it, but, but show me the money.

00:44:57.480 If it, if it's, if you're serious about it, right. The, the, uh, the Bible says where you're,

00:45:04.840 where you're, where your treasure lies there, your heart will be also. Uh, so show me, show me the money

00:45:11.080 that we're actually spending. Uh, we've seen lots of bills come through saying that this much is going

00:45:16.520 to be spent or that much is going to be spent, but they all go unfunded. So, uh, how, how united are

00:45:22.760 all of you on the private side, meaning someone like you, a Tim Ballard, a, you know, there's,

00:45:31.640 there's men, there's a good amount of you that are, you guys all pretty united or is it a pretty

00:45:37.000 competitive environment or is it all we're united? Cause we're fighting the same fight.

00:45:40.720 It's united. We're, we're fighting the same fight. Uh, you know, what we do with deliver fund,

00:45:45.080 we're the only organization in the world that does what we do. Uh, and you know, the, the other

00:45:51.240 folks out there be an international justice mission is a great example. You know, we work, uh, we work

00:45:56.080 closely with some of their folks. They're the only group that does what they do. National center for

00:46:00.680 missing and exploited children is a phenomenal organization, right? A lot of people don't realize

00:46:05.280 that actually is a private nonprofit that John Walsh started, uh, around the missing kids issue.

00:46:11.280 They, uh, we work very closely with them. Uh, and so, so you, you have all these various groups

00:46:18.080 that kind of do different pieces of it. You know, one of the, one of the key components of the fight

00:46:22.960 against human trafficking is the restoration homes. You know, these are people who have started their,

00:46:29.340 started nonprofits to provide restoration services to, uh, to human trafficking victims. Uh, and so,

00:46:36.840 so it does get into this environment where, uh, you know, especially if you have people with really,

00:46:42.980 really good hearts, but no business experience or no business sense, and they don't have the right

00:46:47.920 business people wrapped around them. I've been incredibly blessed in that I've had big business

00:46:54.900 brains, you know, really come in and help us out not only with money, but, but to show us where the

00:47:00.700 potholes in the road are. And so on the restoration side, you have a lot of organizations that are just

00:47:07.160 trying to do the right thing to help these victims, but they don't know how to do it in a repeatable

00:47:12.840 scalable way. Uh, so, so, so you and Tim, Tim Ballard have a relationship, like you guys do stuff

00:47:19.840 together. No, no, as I understand it, they predominantly focus overseas. Okay. Um, you're

00:47:27.480 more, you're more domestic and no, we are, we are only domestic domestic. Okay. Yes. Uh, okay. So,

00:47:35.060 you know, give us a, um, I mean, the, where I was going with this was the following where I was

00:47:41.580 going with this is how often have you guys gone in front of Congress and made a case? How often have

00:47:46.880 you guys gone to DC and made a case? How often do you guys unite together and make a case? How often

00:47:52.240 have you guys gone and gotten celebrities behind some like this to make a case? How often, uh, have

00:47:58.720 we, you know, rallied people if, if, if, uh, save the world, uh, uh, save, uh, uh, make it a better

00:48:07.360 place to you. And, uh, you know, the song back in the days, he, uh, you know, which one I'm talking

00:48:13.040 about, they didn't want to get paid for it. They're just like, look, we're doing it for a good cause.

00:48:17.120 And there are people that are willing to do that. Who who's, who's leading that today. I know,

00:48:22.940 I know, uh, Ashton Kutcher did some stuff and he was pretty active and you can tell the pain

00:48:28.400 when he was speaking about it. So I do, I don't see this as a Democrat Republican or independent

00:48:34.020 thing. I just see this as a, listen, this ain't politics. This is kids period. And all you need to

00:48:39.760 know to, uh, uh, emotionally be connected to this is to have a kid or younger sibling. As long as you

00:48:45.920 have a kid or younger sibling, and you emotionally experienced that you're like, no brainer. I'll

00:48:50.980 support it. How can I support it? How come no one's been able to get in front of the government

00:48:55.400 for the government to say, we're going to put a billion, 2 billion, 5 billion, 10 billion behind it.

00:48:59.100 You know, it's funny. Uh, we were, uh, actually coordinating with Ashton Kutcher and, and, uh,

00:49:03.940 I was on a call with him and, you know, he, he goes in front of Congress. Um, I was asked to speak in front of

00:49:11.100 Congress three times and every time two days before they canceled. Why is that? Um, you know,

00:49:19.000 uh, Yoda Soros at the national center for missing and exploited children, who's the chief legal

00:49:22.960 counsel there. Uh, she does, you know, she goes in and talks to policymakers on a routine basis,

00:49:28.060 but national center for missing or exploited children gets $60 million a year from the federal

00:49:32.360 government. So maybe now, and that's predominantly focused around the missing kids issue, and that's

00:49:37.860 not human trafficking specific. So, so children who go missing, you know, foster kids, like I was a

00:49:45.120 foster kid, right? I got lucky. Um, I very easily could have been, uh, a human trafficking victim,

00:49:52.120 uh, kids age, by the way, foster kid is 60%. It's a, it's a very big number. Yeah. Um, missing kids,

00:49:59.720 uh, national center missed, uh, estimates that once a child goes, goes missing or, or runs away within the

00:50:06.000 first 48 hours, there'll be, uh, they'll be, uh, approached by a human trafficker because these

00:50:10.620 human traffickers know where to find them and they're, and they're cruising around looking for

00:50:15.460 them. And so there you are, uh, you know, a runaway teen in, in, uh, Seattle in the winter,

00:50:21.640 and you're sitting on a park bench and people think that you're just a homeless team. And if you ran away,

00:50:27.260 then I guess you are a homeless teen at that point, human trafficker comes by with a warm car and says,

00:50:31.840 hey, you want some food? Get in. Yeah. So, so then my next question would be, you know,

00:50:37.340 I was on a flight one time, I think it was 14 years ago. It was 06, 07. I was on a flight one time

00:50:42.680 and me and my, uh, uh, friend were sitting next to each other and, and she looks at the girl sitting

00:50:49.000 in front of us as a Pat, take a look at this. It seems a little weird. And I said, what do you mean?

00:50:53.840 I said, look, you know, every time I look at her face, she looks scared. I'm trying to talk to her.

00:50:57.560 So she waited for the guy to go to the bathroom and, and the guy was probably 62 years old and she

00:51:04.660 was probably 12, 13 years old. She looked like she had a little pouch, like almost being pregnant.

00:51:09.280 And she started talking to her. Who is that man sitting next to you? How are you, sweetie? You

00:51:13.780 know, trying to kind of, and she talks to her and she's like, I can't talk to you. And he's like,

00:51:19.660 what, is this your daddy? I can't talk to you. And, and I'm listening. I'm like, dude, this,

00:51:24.360 this girl is frightened on this flight. Right. So, so I follow the guy. I'm not trying to make

00:51:31.420 a scene. I fall. I'm like, okay. So I'm trying to start a conversation with them. And I look at

00:51:35.320 him. I'm like, yeah, something's wrong with you, buddy. There's something very weird. So I started,

00:51:39.600 Hey, so tell me where are you guys from? You know, I'm just trying to start a conversation

00:51:42.720 and Hey, can you leave us alone? I'm like, can you leave us alone? Who the hell says, can you leave us

00:51:48.100 alone? I'm like, yeah, it's totally fine. So is that your daughter? None of your business. Yes. That's my

00:51:52.440 daughter. Even if that's your daughter, you're 62. Okay, fine. We're living in America. Times are

00:51:58.740 changing. Maybe you're sure. So then I go up to the flight attendant. I said, listen, this,

00:52:05.640 this is a little bit 42 years of me living. I've never done this in my life. You know, I'm convinced

00:52:10.700 this guy was a dirty guy and I wanted to take it on my own, but I had, you know, friends I knew in the

00:52:17.200 flight. I'm not trying to make a, you know, but at the same time I said, you know, do you guys have

00:52:21.260 any agency people on the flight? I know typically on every flight, there's somebody that's an agent,

00:52:25.560 you know, that's on, I don't need to know the answer to the question, but there's a very weird

00:52:30.160 situation going on here. There's this man sitting here and this girl, and my friend and I started

00:52:34.720 talking to them and she's scared for her life. And I feel like I have to do something about this,

00:52:42.460 but I'm not an agent. I don't do anything. Can you please tell your management? So she said,

00:52:48.140 let me see what I can do. So they come back, they look, start talking to him. At this point,

00:52:53.500 he's thinking that I, because he looked at me like pissed off even more. And I really, at this point,

00:52:58.600 I'm not, I'm really don't care at this point what's going on. So he goes back, she goes back

00:53:02.960 and tells the other person. So now everybody's kind of trying to find out what's going on.

00:53:06.360 And I said, do you mind, you know, not letting him get off the flight and have some agents coming

00:53:11.580 on board and kind of doing what they're doing? I said, sir, we have it from here. Let us take care of it.

00:53:15.880 We make sure we, we want to reassure you. We're going to do something. I left, I waited. All I

00:53:21.140 know is the guy and the girl didn't get off and they were kind of, somebody was talking to them.

00:53:25.520 I don't know what happened there, but you know, that was just my gut. I may have been wrong.

00:53:30.960 Never felt like that before ever in my life. I'm a pretty intuitive guy. I'm around a lot of people.

00:53:35.520 I travel very regularly and it, it, it felt very, very weird. What, what can, so there's two

00:53:42.740 directions I'm going with this on. One is I'm talking as a citizen. What can I do if I see

00:53:48.820 something that's wary and something just doesn't look right? What, what can we do to help? Because

00:53:58.460 we got, you know, 350 million people say 40 million people living in America, human traffickers. It's

00:54:04.520 not a big number. Say it's in the thousands, but we got a lot of other adults that are out there

00:54:09.680 looking, all this other stuff. What signs can we look for? And what can we do in that moment,

00:54:15.140 you know, to maybe potentially help one girl that is going through the mess that she's going with a

00:54:22.600 trafficker? So the answer to that question actually goes right back to the story you just told, uh,

00:54:28.260 the, you know, people say, well, what should we look for? Uh, well, people, uh, will tell you that,

00:54:33.940 you know, you look for a girl with a crown tattoo on her neck. Well, that's, that's pretty old.

00:54:39.100 That's about 20, that it's about 20 years ago that traffickers were doing that. What's the

00:54:43.660 crown? Uh, they, they, they put a crown, they mark their victims. Um, they used to mark them

00:54:48.660 like on their neck or on their face until they figured out that it's pretty easy for law enforcement

00:54:53.720 to figure out. So they stopped doing that. They still do mark them, but usually in a place that

00:54:57.580 you can't see. Uh, and, uh, but when you see something that just doesn't make sense, right.

00:55:04.100 Especially when it, when it involves fear, uh, we all know what fear looks like. I mean,

00:55:09.020 we can see it in other people. It's a survival instinct, uh, that allowed, you know, mankind

00:55:15.220 to proliferate, say, Hey, you know, I'm afraid because there's a lion over there. So we all

00:55:20.200 know what it looks like. And so when you see that did exactly the right thing, which is you

00:55:24.200 want to tell the next level of authority that you can. Right. So in this case, it was, you know,

00:55:29.860 it was the, uh, the crew at the airline. If, uh, if, if it's not the crew at the airline,

00:55:35.940 it's going to be the airport security. It's going to be a law enforcement officer. It's

00:55:42.160 going to be calling your County Sheriff, uh, all of those things. Uh, but then you get

00:55:46.800 this problem with too much data because that law enforcement officer, who's a human trafficking

00:55:52.880 detective, well, that's only one of their jobs. They're also working traffic two days a week.

00:55:58.600 And they're also doing something else because law enforcement is undermanned, uh, as much as anybody

00:56:03.400 in the government. So that's where we come in, in that we provide technology software. So it

00:56:09.700 connects those cases across the country so that those, those law enforcement officers can log into

00:56:14.560 our system and say, all right, you know, has any of the information that this, that's this girl gave

00:56:20.160 me, or this guy gave me, has anybody else in law enforcement seen this before? And so they'll search

00:56:26.580 it. And, Oh, yep. Sure enough. There's a guy, uh, there's a detective in Nebraska. All right.

00:56:30.840 Let me call that detective in Nebraska and see, see what's going on. Right. And so, so getting people

00:56:35.960 to report things, I mean, even if you don't, I mean, you don't know it's a human trafficking victim.

00:56:41.420 It could be something completely different. It could be, you know, the, the girl's parents had

00:56:47.420 died in a car crash. And this is an uncle. She doesn't know very well, who was the last of kin,

00:56:51.680 who now is taking, you know, taking her on. I mean, you have no idea, but the point was that

00:56:56.400 something wasn't right. And so you told somebody and that is exactly what the public needs to do

00:57:02.400 and err on the side of caution. Right. You just err on the side of caution. Like this could be a human

00:57:08.240 trafficking problem. It could be a kidnapping problem. There was something going on. So we need

00:57:15.300 to tell somebody, you know, uh, uh, uh, again, I'm not in your world, but if I'm in your world,

00:57:22.720 you know, I think speed is critical, right? Call to action is critical. And, you know,

00:57:31.940 I understand the research data, all of that, but that's to hunt down the traffic or right.

00:57:36.840 But when you're in an opportunistic moment, you know, um, there has to be, because once,

00:57:45.180 once they're gone, they're gone, your opportunity is gone. You know, how much does speed play a role

00:57:52.420 in catching traffickers when you see an opportunity to execute immediately? Meanwhile, the law

00:57:58.760 enforcement agencies you're dealing with, maybe that's not at their top of their priority.

00:58:02.800 So what happens when you give intel, do they execute immediately? It's like, Oh, we can't do it

00:58:06.900 today. We're so busy. We'll do it tomorrow. How does the level of speed to call to action? I'm

00:58:12.260 gathered the information. I got it. How, how fast does execution happen? Executing the data that I

00:58:18.940 got to go catch this guy. What have you noticed yourself? Not near fast enough. Uh, law enforcement

00:58:24.820 always wants to execute on it immediately, but great example is at the Superbowl. Uh, we had over 700

00:58:31.480 intelligence packages go out, uh, during the Superbowl operation. I, if you took every single law

00:58:37.340 enforcement officer in the Tampa area area and solely dedicated them to the human trafficking

00:58:43.520 problem, they wouldn't have been able to get to the bottom of it. And, and that's a, that's a very

00:58:48.020 harsh reality of how big this problem is. And it's gotten this big because we never, we never took

00:58:53.740 combating it seriously. So now, uh, we're at the Superbowl, my analysts, uh, they know many human

00:59:02.100 traffickers who showed up at the Superbowl and then left the Superbowl with their girls. Well,

00:59:07.400 quite frankly, that sucks, but we have all that data and now we know where they're going because

00:59:16.640 they're advertising. So we know where they're going to end up. The computers will let us know

00:59:21.020 when they settle. And then we can call law enforcement in that area and say, Hey, these guys were just in

00:59:26.020 the Superbowl. And the reality is sometimes law enforcement says, Hey, we actually don't have

00:59:29.660 anybody who deals with human trafficking. We don't want anything to do with that. Um, and in which

00:59:35.020 case you're like, all right, why, why do they say that though? Because they're not funded for it.

00:59:40.800 Right. Go to, go to your local, you, I'm sure, you know, some folks in law enforcement, uh, go to

00:59:45.300 your police chief and say, Hey, um, show me, show me the budgets for your, your narcotics unit, for your

00:59:52.780 gangs unit, for your property crime unit, and for your human trafficking unit. And what you'll find is that

00:59:58.640 their gangs unit is fully funded. Narcotics unit is fully funded property crime that touches commercial

01:00:04.360 real estate, uh, which touches their donors, the mayor's donors. So guarantee you that's funded.

01:00:10.520 And many times I'll tell you, we actually don't have a human trafficking unit. We have a detective

01:00:15.300 who does something else who, if a human trafficking case comes along, they go ahead and, and, and they

01:00:20.800 deal with it. So you, obviously the idea of defunding the police just even hurts us even more because

01:00:27.720 you need funding to be able to execute on some of these things. So, uh, uh, question, question for

01:00:33.160 you on, on, um, how many total traffickers are there? Not victims, but how many total traffickers,

01:00:40.000 if you can estimate are there in America today? I would estimate it around the, man, it'd be hard.

01:00:47.120 25 to 50,000 Mark. I'm sorry, go ahead. And, and the way we get that is, uh, again, we're talking

01:00:54.820 illicit underground commodities, right? And listen, underground networks, very, very difficult

01:00:58.740 to get good data on that. But the national center for missing or exploited children estimates

01:01:04.060 that about a hundred thousand children a year, children, um, enter the human trafficking market

01:01:11.920 in America, in America. And these are American, these are American citizens. This is not lethal

01:01:18.360 weapon. And there's, you know, Chinese coming in over shipping containers or the movie taken. Um,

01:01:25.080 right. This is, this is, uh, these are our sons and daughters that are being targeted primarily

01:01:31.400 on internet platforms, uh, social media, uh, gaming consoles by human traffickers and, uh, groomed,

01:01:41.000 which is what they call it into their, into their business enterprise. How many total victims,

01:01:48.020 if it's 25 to 50 traffickers, how many victims total? Uh, so we, we don't know. We know that about

01:01:54.520 a hundred thousand children a year enter the cycle. We know that the average life of a human trafficking

01:02:00.240 victim is seven years. Uh, so you can do some, you can do some Fox and rabbit, uh, economics on that

01:02:08.480 pretty quick to figure out that it it's, it's hundreds of thousands of human trafficking victims.

01:02:15.000 If you do 700, if you do 700, if that a hundred thousand stays, but the next year, the a hundred

01:02:19.500 thousand stays for seven years and the next year. So out of a seven year period, you're at 700,000,

01:02:27.080 but they're rolling up. So it's about 1.4, 1.23 million. Okay. What is the worst example we've made

01:02:34.600 of human traffickers? The worst example. Yeah. Meaning what, what is the crime of a human

01:02:42.620 trafficker and what, how, how have we publicly, um, you know, made an example of them to punish

01:02:54.020 them in a way where others sit there and say, did you hear about what happened to Johnny? Yeah. I don't

01:02:59.600 know, man. They're cracking down very quickly. They just got another one and another one and another one

01:03:03.540 one. How do we advertise the human traffickers are getting caught and how bad of a punishment

01:03:08.660 are we passing down to them? So others are kind of being a little bit more hesitant about

01:03:12.640 what they're doing. So the minimum mandatory sentence for human trafficking at the federal

01:03:17.380 level is 15 years. That's it. That's the minimum or maximum. No, that's the minimum mandatory

01:03:23.340 sentence. Uh, we see human traffickers get 15 years. Uh, they'll get, uh, they'll get a house

01:03:30.280 arrest for the first two or three years while their cases is going through, uh, that will

01:03:35.060 come off their sentence. And then we've seen human traffickers get probation after as little

01:03:39.040 as five years. I mean, think about it. You can get 30 years for money laundering. Why is

01:03:44.220 it that on a federal charge, you can get more years in prison for money laundering than you

01:03:50.020 can for human trafficking. Now in some States like Texas and Montana, uh, I mean, it's it, you

01:03:56.160 actually want to get a state charge because it's life in prison for a human trafficking

01:04:00.380 charge. Uh, so what we're seeing, and I actually believe that this is the right, um, this is

01:04:05.760 the right answer. We're seeing the States start to take this, this, this issue into their own

01:04:11.640 hands, um, with some supplemental funding by the federal government. And they're starting

01:04:17.020 to push that forward. One of the best human trafficking task forces in the United States is

01:04:21.780 the HETRA in, in Houston. It's the human trafficking rescue Alliance. Uh, it's, it's, uh, multiple

01:04:27.980 jurisdictions, dozens of jurisdictions in the, in the Houston area. Um, and it's, it's a very much a

01:04:34.140 local human trafficking task force. The feds have some involvement in it for sure, but you're looking

01:04:39.740 at about a 10 to one local agent to federal agent ratio on fighting human trafficking. And by the

01:04:47.140 way, um, their full-time human trafficking analysts is actually one of my employees, uh, because they,

01:04:54.180 they couldn't afford to hire a full-time human trafficking analyst. So we, uh, we got a guy who

01:05:00.600 came from, uh, the, the human intelligence operations side of seal team six and hired him on a full-time

01:05:08.980 salary. And what he does is he hunts down human traffickers on the Intel side for those law enforcement

01:05:14.300 officers. But notice, I said that one human trafficking task force, LA has got a decent one.

01:05:22.080 New York has a decent one. Chicago's is, is up and coming. Uh, but the 80% of America is rural

01:05:29.780 and the human traffickers know that moving through rural America is the best way not to get caught.

01:05:36.080 Nick, what, what do you think is appropriate punishment for human trafficker?

01:05:40.020 I think life in prison sounds pretty good to me.

01:05:42.180 Nothing above that. Life is plenty is what you're thinking.

01:05:45.900 Uh, yeah, I think, I think life is, uh, I think life is pretty good. Um, you know,

01:05:49.780 beyond that you start getting into, uh, political issues that, um, you, you may, you made a video

01:05:56.160 on this, uh, that I thought was, was very good for a guy in my situation, um, in talking about,

01:06:02.260 you know, various political issues. So let's just start with, let's just start with life in prison.

01:06:06.800 Let's get that locked in. Uh, right. We know that that worked when we, when we had gangs,

01:06:13.880 uh, targeting law enforcement officers and we made, you know, the killing of a law enforcement

01:06:19.300 officer, uh, a life sentence. We know that that worked. So let's try that for human trafficking.

01:06:25.440 And then, and then let's see where that data takes us and move, move beyond that.

01:06:30.160 Top states. I looked at for human traffic and I saw California, Texas, Florida, Nevada, Vegas,

01:06:37.020 specifically, obviously Vegas makes, uh, some sense, but then they said the epicenter is New York

01:06:43.140 city. What would you say, having been in this industry yourself, what, where do you see a lot of

01:06:49.380 human trafficking taking place? So human trafficking is transitory, uh, right? The, the traffickers,

01:06:57.440 I mean, at the end of the day, let's remember they are, they are business people. Uh, and I don't

01:07:02.820 want to say business men because a lot of human traffickers are women. Um, so, uh, they are,

01:07:07.660 they're business people who are going to go where the market opportunity is. So New York city is not a

01:07:15.800 problem right now because people have been fleeing New York city because of tax issues and, and COVID.

01:07:21.940 And so you're starting to see an uptick in human trafficking activity in places like Texas, where,

01:07:27.080 you know, Montana, uh, rural America, where people, where people are flooding to and human

01:07:33.040 traffickers can't get hotel rooms. Um, they can't, you know, if, if there's a big COVID lockdown, so

01:07:38.620 they're going to go to the places where there isn't a COVID lockdown, then they follow the market.

01:07:42.940 God. Okay. So they're not as dumb as you think they are. So it's smart.

01:07:50.860 Yeah. But how smart do you have to be to say, Hey, I'm not making any money in this city. Let's

01:07:54.940 try the next one. Um, you know, it's, they're, they're looking at it as, as a, um, let's say

01:08:02.480 great examples, um, consumer electronics show, right. It's a market opportunity for them. You've got

01:08:07.820 all kinds of people from all over the world, come to Las Vegas to, you know, to, to party and they

01:08:14.000 want girls at those parties and they want to, they want to show up. So you'll have human traffickers

01:08:18.380 who will, who will leave Nebraska to go to Nevada to sell their girls in Nevada, because that's an

01:08:24.940 opportunity for them. They'll sell them along the way and they might hit a couple other cities on

01:08:29.220 their way back home. So, uh, so, um, when you're saying some of these human traffickers are not men,

01:08:35.880 they're women, Epstein, Maxwell, Jelaine, Jelaine, you would put as a human trafficker,

01:08:41.180 would she categorically be a human trafficker? It's just a high end human trafficker, right?

01:08:45.300 From what I know of the case. Yes. I'm not an expert on that case by any means, but, but from what I

01:08:50.700 know, yes. Um, you, you that's, that's the misconception is that all human traffickers are

01:08:57.540 men and that is not the case. Uh, I mean, many, many human traffickers are women. Many of them

01:09:04.000 became human trafficking victims. And then the Stockholm syndrome set in pretty bad. And they

01:09:10.620 started, they started essentially acting as a business manager for their human trafficker,

01:09:15.360 um, to get preferential treatment, uh, right. Preferential, uh, uh, you know, maybe, uh, maybe

01:09:23.360 some freedoms, things like that. And then eventually maybe the human trafficker goes to prison and they

01:09:28.300 just take over the business enterprise. Interesting. Um, last question. And then I'll, I'll wrap up with

01:09:34.100 the, you know, one last short, this is the next topic. And then the last one I'll wrap up with a basic

01:09:38.780 question, uh, parents, um, what, what, what can we as parents do to, um, be alert, be aware, anticipate,

01:09:52.140 prevent, what can we do to be smarter with this? Be nosy and be in your children's lives,

01:09:59.460 know who they're talking to, know what's no, no, no, what's going on, know whether or not that game

01:10:06.560 that they're playing has a chat feature. And I, and I talked to parents like, well, I'm just not

01:10:10.140 good with technology when it's time to get good with technology. Um, because, uh, if you're going

01:10:15.260 to allow your children to, uh, if you're going to allow your children to, to use a gaming console

01:10:21.520 or to use a phone, um, look at, look at that as a weapon, right? No parent would hand their child a

01:10:27.940 loaded gun and say, oh, well, I'm just not good with guns. So I don't, I don't know how to check to

01:10:33.080 see if it's loaded. Tell me how a gaming console or a phone is any different. Um, right. Our, our,

01:10:39.340 our job as parents is to protect our children. Um, and that means protecting them from things that,

01:10:45.760 that they don't understand the consequences for. If you go to our website at deliverfund.org, you will

01:10:52.060 see a, uh, you'll see a video of a, a boy who was, uh, trafficked. He was, uh, he was groomed

01:11:02.920 through a gaming console. Um, our legal counsel says, I can't say which one. Um, but he was, he

01:11:09.560 was, uh, he was groomed through a, a, uh, a very recognizable gaming console, one of the top three.

01:11:15.840 Uh, and the, and he thought he was talking to another boy, his age in another state. And then

01:11:22.400 that human trafficker went, you know, got him to tell him over a period of months where he lived,

01:11:27.540 human trafficker then, um, contacted him and said, Hey, um, I'm with my dad up the street.

01:11:34.280 Why don't you, uh, why don't you come out and say hi? And so the boy did jumped in the car.

01:11:40.300 Obviously it was a, it was a grown man took his phone. They found the phone in the front yard of

01:11:45.360 a neighbor's house and, uh, took this young boy to another state. Now, luckily one of our analysts,

01:11:51.680 uh, Kara Smith, uh, you can find her on, on, uh, Instagram at Kara the huntress, um, which is kind

01:11:58.580 of our little name for her. Cause all she, she lives to hunt down human traffickers and she's a

01:12:02.820 former NSA analyst. Um, she was able to find this, this young boy where he was and, uh, within a couple

01:12:10.620 of hours and law enforcement kicked in the door of, of this guy's house and rescued the boy, uh, within

01:12:16.760 48 hours. But, but that, that's a great example. And, and the father of this young boy, uh, he was

01:12:24.600 an it security specialist at a very large, no, at a very large it security company. So he had all the

01:12:31.600 right filters on his, on his router. He had all the right stuff. He was doing the right things.

01:12:37.160 He just assumed that because he'd pushed the easy button for, for, you know, keeping,

01:12:42.400 keeping the, you know, pornography and stuff like that out of office home internet, um, that there

01:12:48.020 was no other way that these human traffickers could get these children. So you see your kids

01:12:52.840 talking to somebody on a, on a game, on a gaming console or, or on a phone, you know, Hey, who are

01:12:58.520 you talking to? What are they saying? You do you really know that's them, you know, helping children

01:13:03.800 understand that the person on the other side of the internet could be anybody. It could be who they,

01:13:11.340 who they claim to be. And it also could not, you know, my, my, uh, my other company verify,

01:13:17.200 you know, we, we do all this work around fraud for investments and, uh, and it shocks me how

01:13:24.820 many very, very, very bright, very wealthy individuals who have made billions of dollars,

01:13:33.180 um, end up being defrauded by somebody just because they took their word for it. And next thing,

01:13:39.340 you know, they're losing tens of millions of dollars. Um, so if that can happen to, uh, if

01:13:45.000 that can happen to private equity firms, if that can happen to investment banks, if that can happen

01:13:50.940 to, uh, you know, venture capital firms, it surely can happen to a teenage kid who's playing a video

01:13:59.200 game. Crazy. When you're just thinking about like how they go about, by the way, do you know,

01:14:03.800 Jera, uh, Hutchins or no? Can't say I do know Jera Hutchins in Dallas. You don't. Okay.

01:14:09.620 She, uh, she's one of those that, uh, loves fighting human trafficking and she teaches people

01:14:14.520 how to get, uh, licensed to carry. And she's, she's phenomenal. She's a phenomenal phenomenon

01:14:19.200 what she does. Yeah. I watched a movie years ago. I know you're not a movie guy, you're a music

01:14:24.380 guy, but you're not a movie guy. You haven't even seen the movie, Jack Ryan and that Jack. No, I

01:14:28.380 haven't. So I watched this movie called disconnect and disconnect was a great movie to show how a kid

01:14:36.960 gets bullied online. And this, this guy's, um, father, parents go through a divorce. You know,

01:14:44.760 he's just not, he's just not connected. You know, he's just so busy. I don't have any time. I don't

01:14:48.820 have any time. He's actually, they're not divorced. What the other kid has parents divorced.

01:14:52.120 So this, the kids, the bullies in school find out that this kid likes this girl. So they make

01:15:00.320 a fake profile and send a picture of somebody else's naked picture without the face on and

01:15:05.100 said, I'll show you mine. If you show me yours. So she's, they, the guys send a picture of another

01:15:12.360 girl online that they got. So he then sends a picture of himself naked. The boys end up using a

01:15:18.960 picture against him, share it with everybody in school. Cause they're, you know, kids, they do

01:15:24.180 stupid things. Obviously that cyber bullying. This kid is so embarrassed to go to school that

01:15:31.520 he ends up hanging himself and his sister walks in on time where he doesn't kill himself,

01:15:36.220 but that has nothing to do with human trafficking, but it does.

01:15:40.360 Oh, it does. It absolutely does.

01:15:43.480 The first two, three steps where I'll show you mine. If you show me yours, I recommend every

01:15:49.220 parent to watch this movie because it's a very interesting movie. And a guy that's in this movie

01:15:54.600 is the guy from horrible bosses. I don't know what the guy's name is. Jason, is it Jason Bateman?

01:15:57.980 Jason, uh, is that, is that an actor's name? I don't know. I think that's the actor's name,

01:16:01.540 Jason, Jason Bateman, who was in, he's done a great job, but, uh, you know, I think,

01:16:06.680 I think there needs to be more education on this. I saw the hotline, you know, there's a hotline for

01:16:11.140 human trafficking and is that something you support with what they do? Is that an organization

01:16:15.140 that you support? So the national human trafficking hotline is a, is a good, uh, it's a good resource,

01:16:21.400 but it's the best resource is to call your local law enforcement, uh, because that's where it's

01:16:27.780 actually happening, right? National human trafficking hotline is a hotline in DC, um, you know, doing the

01:16:33.140 best they can from there, but you want to call where it's actually happening, because like you

01:16:37.600 said, Patrick, it is speed, right? Time is of the essence in these cases. So you want to get that

01:16:45.120 law enforcement officer on the ground where you see the problem involved. Uh, and, and what you brought

01:16:51.180 up is, is what, uh, what is referred to as sextortion human traffickers use that they, they create a

01:16:57.620 profile. Some girl thinks that she's talking to some good looking guy who's a couple of years older.

01:17:02.720 Um, they get a picture and then they use that to control these, to control these girls. Uh, we've

01:17:10.640 actually had cases where there were teenage girls who were living at home with their parents who were

01:17:17.560 being trafficked after school when their parents thought that they were at soccer practice. And all

01:17:22.860 they knew was that something was not right with their daughters, but their daughter wouldn't talk about

01:17:27.700 it because this trafficker was threatening to, you know, show their church or show their parents or

01:17:33.520 something like that. So helping your children understand that one, you can kind of survive

01:17:39.040 anything, right? I mean, yes. If, if, if that naked picture of you gets, gets put on the internet,

01:17:44.600 um, it will one, if you're underage, those platforms have a responsibility to take that,

01:17:49.800 to take that down. And there's legal consequences if they don't. Um, so that's the first thing.

01:17:53.960 The second thing is, um, what will happen to you if you, uh, if you cooperate with the human trafficker

01:18:01.960 is far worse than anything that, that could ever happen, uh, otherwise. And, and this,

01:18:08.840 the last piece is for children to understand that anything they put on the internet lives forever,

01:18:16.440 right? Unless you get as lucky as me and you have a government agency just to go start scrubbing

01:18:21.880 things off. Right. I mean, I'm one of the few people who in their mid thirties had got a, got a

01:18:26.440 fresh, fresh start on the internet. Um, that just doesn't happen. Um, so for children to understand

01:18:32.480 that if you take a picture on a phone, it lives forever. If you send it, it lives forever. And

01:18:39.960 eventually you have to assume that anything you do on the internet is going to end up on the front

01:18:45.200 page of the Washington post. You know, it's funny. I, I've never said this ever in an interview. I

01:18:51.400 hope this video gets millions of views. I've, if anybody's watching you, if you know, I mean, if

01:18:55.960 anybody, I've never said, I hope this video gets millions of views. I hope this interview gets

01:18:59.500 millions of views and I hope people share it with other parents and give the thumbs up everything

01:19:03.960 that the algorithms work in a favor of you to putting this all over the place because people need

01:19:07.880 to get educated, uh, just in the last hour and 15 minutes, however long we've been going minus the

01:19:12.900 conversation you and I had offline, uh, I've gotten smarter and I, I appreciate your time.

01:19:18.160 I appreciate everything you, uh, shared with us. And, uh, uh, we will leave the link below to both

01:19:25.220 of your companies, obviously the deliver being at the top and that we'll put the other one as well

01:19:29.660 and, um, how people can find you. They can find you easily through your website, right? Is that,

01:19:34.500 is that the best way to find you through your website? Yeah. You find me through the website.

01:19:37.940 Um, I'm on all the social media platforms, uh, at deliver fund Nick and, uh, LinkedIn is the one

01:19:44.840 that I'm the most active on. Uh, and thank you Patrick for, for helping us shine a light on this

01:19:49.920 issue. I mean, this is, it's a team effort and everyone's got a, got a part to play. And so thank

01:19:56.340 you for that. I think you play a very important role and I hope more people get inspired to do what

01:20:01.260 you do once they leave the military, because we need the people like you. And I hope, uh,

01:20:06.480 any government officials or anybody that's involved in politics who watches this content,

01:20:10.940 uh, also has the courage to bring it up to folks in power who see value in this. So eventually the

01:20:18.320 budget for this goes into the billions, I think 10, 20, 30 billion to eliminate this at least in

01:20:22.820 America and then eventually gradually work internationally. Once again, thank you, thank you for

01:20:26.980 your time. And, uh, uh, uh, very, very, very good, very good interview with you the last hour and a

01:20:32.580 half. I really enjoyed it. My brain is going a million miles an hour. Thanks again, Nick.

01:20:36.660 Thank you, Patrick.

01:20:37.640 I've not asked you this before, but I'm asking you right now, and hopefully you will do this as a

01:20:42.420 value retainer. Please share this video, text it to people, hit the thumbs up button, share it

01:20:48.640 whatever way you can for other people to see it for the algorithms to be on our favor, because this is

01:20:53.220 not a message about how you make millions, how you make billions, how you become successful.

01:20:57.760 It's not entertainment. This is purely something that's about education and awareness. I'm asking

01:21:02.260 you share it with any parent that you know, and say, just watch this video, get a paper and pen out.

01:21:07.600 You're going to want to pay attention to this one here. And having said that, if you enjoy this

01:21:10.520 interview and you learn from it, I have a real life story of somebody that experienced this.

01:21:14.980 Her name is Yanomi Park. If you've never seen that interview, click over to watch that.

01:21:18.200 And, uh, hopefully together we can create more awareness of this. And even if we make this

01:21:24.320 much of a dent and this leads to helping out 20 kids, a hundred kids, 5,000 kids, a hundred

01:21:31.740 thousand kids, we did our job. Take care, everybody. Bye-bye.

Valuetainment - March 05, 2021

Former CIA Agent Reveals Human Trafficking Business Model

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