“Howard Lutnick Is The Problem” – Eric Bolling BLASTS Trump’s Tariff Plan As Anti-Free Market
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Summary
On this episode of the Stock Market Movers podcast, we have special guest Eric Eddings join us to talk about the latest trade war between the United States and China. President Trump is trying to get China to lower their tariffs on the US, but China is fighting back.
Transcript
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Eric, your background, for some of the audience that don't know,
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your background is actually finance before you got into TV.
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If you don't mind, for some folks that don't know,
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maybe take a minute or two and give a little bit about your background in finance.
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I blew my rotator cuff out and had nowhere to go, nothing to do.
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and started on the New York Mercantile Exchange trading energy futures.
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I became a board member, brought the exchange public.
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The first major financial, certainly exchange that went public on my push.
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And I spent 15 years total on Wall Street and I've never left it.
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I trade gold, silver, agricultural commodities, but I'm an active stock trader as well.
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And tariffs, honestly, Patrick, I just don't get it.
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But one of the original Trump supporters, one of the original Steve Bannon supporters,
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because back in the day when Bannon and Andrew Breitbart were developing America First,
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And they brought President Trump to the presidency the first time.
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So the original MAGA support, I do not get this idea of applying tariffs on the whole world.
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We have a lot of ways of exerting pressure on China to lower their tariffs and others, Brazil.
00:01:34.960
One of them would be use our massive oil infrastructure.
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If we drilled a ton more oil, if we put liquefied natural gas, which we can now do to the point where we satisfy all of our domestic demand,
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the excess demand, we could offer to China and say, look, you want to make a deal, lower your tariffs.
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We will sell you LNG at market price without a tariff.
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If you want to keep your tariffs, we'll jack it up.
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That's why they have the partnership with Russia.
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Point is, I've done this for a really, really long time.
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And anytime government gets involved in anything in the markets, they pretty much screw it up.
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Okay, so let's start off with the tariff topic.
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So Trump exempts phones, computers, and chips from new tariffs.
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Here's President Trump talking about what they're doing with phones, computers, and chips.
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Which specific products are you considering and how long is short-lived?
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I'm looking at something to help some of the car companies where they're switching to parts
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that were made in Canada, Mexico, and other places.
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And they need a little bit of time because they're going to make them here.
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What about any Apple products, other cell phones?
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No, sometimes you have to go around it, under it, or above it.
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I helped Tim Cook recently in that whole business.
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But the end result is we're going to get to the position of greatness for our country.
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We're the greatest economic power in the world if we're smart.
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If we're not smart, we're going to hurt our country very badly.
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So the latest number, Robert, if you can verify this, I think it's U.S. 145% tariff on China.
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Vietnam was the first person that we said we're going to lift the tariff.
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So he's going to his neighbors to say, hey, don't forget we have a great relationship together.
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The whole concept of we'll build this stuff here, we'll say made in China, but we'll put made in Vietnam.
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Let's not forget some of the stuff that we have going on here.
00:04:05.440
But you're not liking the position they're taking with tariffs.
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Because, again, government getting involved in anything, they screw everything up.
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Now, originally, they launched it as we're going to put an equivocal tariff on any certain country, China, Brazil, Germany, whatever you're charging us.
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What they did was they took the trade imbalance with the country.
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For example, China, $130 billion trade imbalance.
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That's what they sell us more than we sell them.
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And they divided that number by the total export China into America, which is fine, but it's an equation.
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It has nothing to do with their tariff structure at all.
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And they came off, like, I think 64%, and they said, oh, we're going to do 32%.
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They did that with every single country in the world.
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So they sold it as we're going to raise our tariffs reciprocally, and when you lower country A, B, or C, we will lower with you, which is great.
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Then it became, we're doing this to everyone, and now we have 15 countries who want to negotiate.
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Now we have 150 countries that want to negotiate.
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And it became more about the world leaders coming to the Trump administration and begging for some relief, which isn't the real nature of it.
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You want to play the tariff game, play it where the purpose is to lower tariffs completely both directions.
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And then this whole idea of choosing certain industries to exempt from tariffs, not necessarily countries, but industries, chips, cell phones, computers, it just, I just don't like, I'm a free market person, Patrick.
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The free market is what made this country number one, the greatest country on the planet, bar none, because we had the most free business environment markets.
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Well, Trump said, I want to leverage, I want to leverage things to get the world to come to the table.
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But then the calculation of how you get them to the world, I thought that they, they kind of lost the headline there because it's like, wait a minute, how, to, to your point, how are you calculating to get them to the table?
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You want to get them to the table and say, hey, look, you got two things here.
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And, you know, you're not really bad on tariffs, Eric.
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And I know you got intellectual property things going on.
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And I, and I know you've got some relabeling on country of origin.
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You know, the, the biggest one to deal with is China.
00:07:01.280
But, Tom, I don't mean to interrupt, but they didn't use a tariff and add on difficulty getting into your market or back and forth.
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They literally took the trade imbalance of country A, B, or C, and they divided it by the exports.
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That's why I said I was confused by the calculation, but I understood the purpose.
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It's a formula, but it's not what they sold us.
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It was going to be a tariff, we'll raise to you.
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Oh, and they said we're going to be lenient and only do half.
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But the number they are using is the tariff that, that we're being charged had nothing to do with the tariff.
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And again, I'm putting this on Howard Lutnick because this is Howard Lutnick's baby here.
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I wouldn't trust him to, you know, park my car over there.
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Again, so I was on with O'Reilly and he said, oh, Ballinger, you're a MAGA psychophant.
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Is there anyone in this administration, he may know, I think he made a mistake with Lutnick.
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Chris, you and I were in New York when the World Trade Center came down, right?
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Howard was, wasn't at the World Trade Center the day it came down because he was taking
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The families of his employees weren't, didn't have money.
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They had to sue Howard Lutnick to get health care.
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But it's 25 years ago and people are like, oh, Howard Lutnick.
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Since then, my first experience with Howard Lutnick, because I was trading oil on the
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We were the premier oil trading platform in the world.
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For every single barrel of oil, it was, price was discovered on the New York Merc, and
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Howard calls from Canter before the World Trade Center comes down.
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He says, I'm going to put you guys out of business.
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I'm developing an oil contract that is going to bury the New York Mercantile Exchange.
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So I went over there with a couple of other board members to have a nice conversation with
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him to see if there's a way we could all work together to put, to discover prices for
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The more price discovery, the more people involved, the better.
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He just literally looked at this and I'm going to develop the contract, putting you guys
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It's a $150 billion entity, and Howard's making tariff numbers.
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So for everybody, they have a sword to die on, right?
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If we're talking about specific to tariffs, why do you think that's Lutnik's sword to die
00:10:00.720
I mean, he came in as the commerce secretary, and he had an idea.
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Trump liked the idea, but the problem is that the idea of raising your own tariffs to reduce
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global tariffs on incoming imports, their exports are imports, is a nice idea.
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Maybe it throws people, the world into a global recession.
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I'm not sure, but he sold it, and Trump kind of liked the idea, and then he got away.
00:10:31.480
I think it'll get back to what the original was.
00:10:33.820
So, by the way, I want to make sure we're fair here.
00:10:35.660
Rob, can you pull up what happened with Lutnik?
00:10:39.180
They got a chunk of money as a settlement, right, as a lot of the people who were affected did.
00:10:43.680
The initial criticism was that Lutnik had taken a lot of the money, and it looked like
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it was going to go his way, not the family's way.
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Over time, he did more and more for the families.
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I want to make sure, because I'm reading this here.
00:11:08.740
He promised to give 25% of Cantor's future profits to the families, the 658 employees
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And over the years, he gave more than $180 million distributed to those families.
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He's also created a relief fund offering health care and financial support to those left
00:11:23.660
And Fitzgerald was one of the few companies who stayed in business after losing two-thirds of
00:11:27.960
So he ended up making it right afterwards with some of the stuff.
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It depends who you ask, but it wound up better than it started.
00:11:38.560
But Eric is not wrong to say that the impression of him was very negative.
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If somebody is more interested in it, they can look into it and respond to it here.
00:11:52.760
So, Eric, Chris, are you guys both on the same page on the tariff position with what he's
00:11:57.320
Would you say you're relatively on the same page?
00:12:01.280
Which is, first, you know, this is as nice an assessment as Trump is going to get of
00:12:06.400
If this had been Biden who had done this, you know, everybody's head would be on fire in
00:12:15.060
The mistake the left is making is hating the ambition, helping the American worker, having
00:12:21.060
new economy jobs here that pay more, bringing things back that we need to make here so that
00:12:26.080
people can't hold us hostage like happened in the beginning of the pandemic when we didn't
00:12:33.060
And I think it's wrong to criticize it just because Trump is doing it.
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That's why I talk about the president and the administration a lot.
00:12:40.680
I try to keep Trump's name out of it so people on the left can keep their head straight about
00:12:45.320
So I respect the ambition, you know, the expression, we all know it failing to plan is planning
00:12:53.800
And what they're doing here is a ready shoot aim situation.
00:12:59.980
I have a little bit of a suspicion about why he's helping cook cook, uh, gave him a ton
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of money, why he's helping the car companies that he is.
00:13:09.120
I don't think he should play favorites how he wants to do this.
00:13:12.780
Eric is right to question, uh, and you're hearing it.
00:13:15.880
It's not unusual criticism, but the ambition is a good one.
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The question is, is this the way to get it done?
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It's very hard to find anybody who doesn't work for him who says yes.
00:13:27.820
Can I, can I, uh, can we have a friendly banter here on this topic?
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Let's just kind of, uh, go through some of the ideas here.
00:13:34.980
If, if they don't do it this way and we just sit there and you're like, look, just use the
00:13:42.780
Use that as the, you know, method of getting back and, you know, China needs our oil, but
00:13:49.060
If we go with that approach, you're assuming a similar type of a leader is going to get
00:13:55.700
What if it's going to be a different kind of a president that takes a different approach
00:14:01.820
If we keep it the way it is from, from 1971, where we kind of opened it up and they started
00:14:09.020
doing business to 2001 when world trade organization, they joined it and they kind of started doing
00:14:18.840
It almost sounds like, Eric, what you're saying is similar to what Yellen is saying.
00:14:23.100
Yellen said, bringing manufacturing back is a pipe dream.
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You sound like Janet, if that's your position, and you can disagree with it, Rob, if you want
00:14:34.900
This is Janet Yellen, former Treasury Secretary.
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Perhaps it's to bring back American manufacturing, but I really think that's a, that's a pipe
00:14:45.540
dream and not something that is likely to be accomplished.
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And we could even raise questions about whether or not in a broad-based way, that's a desirable
00:14:58.320
So this is traditional way of thinking establishment saying this is a pipe dream.
00:15:03.620
I think Janet Yellen should never been Treasury Secretary.
00:15:08.440
She's the one who said inflation was transitory when it was clearly not transitory for the
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better part of four years of Joe Biden's presidency.
00:15:17.620
I just happen to also question whether or not raising tariffs will actually create American
00:15:25.980
jobs and what kind of American jobs are we going to create here if we do this?
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And we're going to, clearly product prices are going to go up by, if all things stay the
00:15:35.080
same, tariffs stay high with China and others, product prices will go up globally.
00:15:40.400
Hopefully there's enough demand to support the higher price.
00:15:43.560
I believe there's a lot of demand in the U.S. economy right now, but you have to worry about
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China right now is on that precipice of, is there enough demand to keep them paying for
00:15:56.420
And the payoff would be, Patrick, is Tim Cook says, I'll give a half a trillion dollars.
00:16:01.260
We're going to build $500 billion worth of manufacturing in America.
00:16:05.700
Lutnik said, OK, we're going to have Americans screwing those little screws in iPhones.
00:16:12.500
And if they do spend money to build a manufacturing plant here, which would be great, economic
00:16:20.940
Every single iPhone will be built with robotics.
00:16:23.340
The only reason why it's not happening now is because it's too expensive to build a new
00:16:28.360
But if you're going to make it expensive to import, then you'll do it here.
00:16:32.760
And there won't be more Americans working in manufacturing.
00:16:36.100
There'll be more manufacturing, but not more Americans manufacturing products and stuff.
00:16:43.300
I mean, that's not, it's like saying, hey, when back in the days, in the 1900s, you know,
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41% of people worked in farms and then all of a sudden a tractor and fertilizer eliminated
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those jobs and they're like, what the hell do I do?
00:17:00.640
That's why Trump shouldn't liken this to the Gilded Age.
00:17:03.420
OK, I'm sure we all saw what was in the Woodward book where Gary Cohn was trying to explain
00:17:08.640
to the then president in the first term, we don't want to go back to the Gilded Age.
00:17:15.800
And Trump, for whatever reason, was fixated on that being America's best time, which is
00:17:23.380
You are right to characterize what Lutnik said the way you are, because his quote was taken
00:17:29.740
He gave a nod that we're not going to be turning screws.
00:17:37.020
China underwrites the cost of those factories in their country.
00:17:52.640
It's not going to get you where you want to be.
00:17:56.020
But what I don't like is China is outplaying us right now in this moment.
00:18:06.240
Everybody wants to meet with China all of a sudden, which did not happen before.
00:18:17.000
They signed over a dozen new trade deals in that meeting.
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They're not going to punish their consumers to the extent that they have a robust base there.
00:18:31.680
They're just not allowing us access to these things.
00:18:38.880
They can play with Vietnam and whomever else they want to play with all they want.
00:18:42.900
But what are we, maybe net-net 20% of their business?
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We're probably higher than that number and probably higher on a profitability basis, too.
00:18:55.000
Because not only do we, we don't just buy the little, you know, the Sharpies.
00:19:00.940
So there's a lot more profit margin in the stuff we buy.
00:19:04.040
They can't live without, they can't, Chris, they are on, they're on a path to not be able to actually go into more than a recession, maybe even a depression.
00:19:18.000
But they have structural advantages that Trump doesn't have to worry about.
00:19:29.480
Okay, everything you're saying there, this is kind of how I process it.
00:19:33.480
The problem with the U.S. politics, here's a problem that I see, is the leverage she has is what?
00:19:52.420
Okay, so what happens if there's a bloodbath and then, hey, look what's going on.
00:20:01.420
If we don't do something now and the next president doesn't and the next president, everybody keeps, what's the word?
00:20:11.540
And then eventually, all of a sudden, you're going to wake up one day and they're going to be like, hey, guess what?
00:20:18.520
So because we don't want to deal with a little bit of pain today, we're like, no, no, no.
00:20:26.300
And the portrayal is that because we have such a trade, massive trade imbalance, we're at some sort of.
00:20:38.600
But tariffs aren't the reason for the imbalance.
00:20:54.380
I mean, it was in 1970, suggesting a similar rank to 71.
00:21:22.340
So what are the projections of where they're going to be by 2030?
00:21:27.280
So we're supposed to sit here and just kind of cave and say a new regime's in town?
00:21:33.900
Well, the argument you're having is about it's not that we got to do something about China.
00:21:38.680
We have to figure out how to protect ourselves and advance ourselves.
00:21:42.820
I think people can get on the same page with that, or they should.
00:21:48.820
In fact, when they got into the WTO, what did they have to do to get into it?
00:21:53.420
So as the trade deficit was growing, they were actually lowering tariffs.
00:21:57.780
So the point is, and what pisses off people like Eric, who understand tariffs, is it's not the right mechanism.
00:22:08.200
So you said the way they could get on WTO was what?
00:22:15.240
How much has China shown a track record of following rules and guidelines and things that ask agreements to do?
00:22:24.540
They may be helping right now in the Ukraine war by giving Russia manpower.
00:22:30.960
They have a track record of agreeing on certain terms and not following through on the terms.
00:22:37.440
And you want us to take the negotiation seriously and try to play nice with these guys?
00:22:44.060
When you deal with somebody, you do business, you'll have a phone call.
00:22:47.400
You guys have been in the entertainment business for a while.
00:22:52.840
And I guarantee you, both of you guys have a name, that no matter what they say, you better verify it 17 times because you know nothing that person ever said was real.
00:23:00.000
I just don't know that tariffs is the right punch to throw to knock them out.
00:23:13.460
But if we became a global major exporter of oil, I mean...
00:23:21.100
Let's say they take over the United States in two, three, five years, whatever.
00:23:31.760
But they also don't care about how terrible they have.
00:23:36.140
From a third world country to a developed nation.
00:23:44.460
Are we the biggest military or the second biggest military?
00:23:49.380
It doesn't matter if China has a bigger GDP than the United States.
00:23:52.120
We'll still be a heck of a lot more powerful than they will.
00:24:00.760
We have a consumer that is the strongest consumer on the planet.
00:24:03.320
Our economy is the strongest economy on the planet.
00:24:08.300
If this continues, if this continues, who's a slave to who?
00:24:23.400
If they put us into a depression and we default on the trillions of dollars of our debt that
00:24:32.900
The more I'm listening to what we're saying, the more I'm processing it as
00:24:42.840
Although I don't believe anybody is going to run away from something that's working.
00:24:46.200
You know, the Democrats criticized Trump's tariffs on China in the first term.
00:24:52.840
No, what I'm saying to you is if we have a chance to have this tough conversation now,
00:24:57.680
I have a feeling if we don't do it now, this may be the last chance ever to have it.
00:25:06.840
When's the last time we had a guy like Trump as a president?
00:25:21.220
If you read the Jim Baker book, you know, and you read about Reagan, Reagan was actually
00:25:26.560
So Reagan had a different approach that he would still work with the establishment a
00:25:30.760
little bit and kind of, you know, be able to make that stuff work.
00:25:33.180
To me, if there is a wild card in this equation of a guy that can...
00:25:39.520
Like, I was talking to a couple NBA guys the other day with Scottie Pippen, and we're
00:25:43.860
talking about a guy named Zion Williamson, okay, who was...
00:25:51.580
Earlier when I asked him about the whole challenge with Miami, he says, everybody leaves
00:26:02.860
30 minutes later, I say, let me ask you a question.
00:26:05.280
Zion Williamson, if there's a coach or somebody in the NBA that could change him, who would
00:26:16.380
It takes an effing Pat Riley to change certain things.
00:26:19.940
And I think the chances of getting another Trump in 4, 8, 12, 6, I don't know if we're
00:26:32.600
He sees everything as a nail and he's a hammer.
00:26:35.500
But it's still about how good the strategy is and what the mechanism is for change.
00:26:41.040
Our biggest advantage over China is our alliances.
00:26:45.280
And that's why people were worried about the soft power.
00:26:48.180
That's why people were worried about how you talk to your allies.
00:26:50.820
When you see the EU saying, we're going to take, not just Spain, right?
00:26:58.760
And the reason they're giving a middle finger to us, because they want to give it to Trump
00:27:05.100
You need your friends to beat China, not just because of the number of human beings,
00:27:13.660
That's the criticism is the way you're going about this is not going to get it done.
00:27:18.420
But what you want to get done is the right thing to go after.
00:27:24.500
I don't know, Chris, about that point on the EU.
00:27:28.000
I mean, the EU paraded Ursula von der Leyen, who's president of the EU Commission,
00:27:35.960
And she said, well, EU likes a good deal, would like a good deal, number one.
00:27:42.520
Number two, she was saying things about, hey, we want to come negotiate this.
00:27:49.740
Because they sent her out with the moderation message so that they can take these populist messages,
00:27:56.240
except Italy, forward to their media about, oh, you know, we're not going to be bullied by Trump.
00:28:02.660
We're not going to be like this and everything.
00:28:04.500
Meanwhile, they're coming out being very open about it.
00:28:10.060
No, she's talking about we want to come negotiate this, this, and this.
00:28:15.360
And so they send out Ursula von der Leyen to make those statements.
00:28:18.900
Meanwhile, you know, Macron says, oh, I don't know about this.
00:28:24.280
Yeah, but I'm saying they say they're going to meet with China.
00:28:31.600
And what's happening right now is a realignment because people are pissed at Trump.
00:28:44.920
Why is Renault-Nissan, like, going to EU Commission and saying we need to investigate what's going on in Hungary with BYD?
00:28:56.180
They're subsidizing it, and they're going to screw all of us on the equivalent of, you know, cost dumping because they're going to subsidize the whole thing.
00:29:04.180
And so I don't see a lot of love there for all of what's going on in the auto industry in Europe.
00:29:08.900
And that's one of the things Ursula von der Leyen was talking about.
00:29:12.780
But my point was I'm sitting there watching her versus watching prime ministers and things and presidents and saying, you know, as much as they're pissed at Trump, they're scared to death of what China is doing.
00:29:23.960
And so they're not running over there with open arms.
00:29:28.580
I said, look, these tariffs are going to be tactics, not taxes.
00:29:31.580
And I said that many, many times, and people clicked on it and said, I think you're crazy.
00:29:39.380
But if you look at the tariff like a medication, you're saying that's the wrong medication to be giving the patient.
00:29:54.240
Do I think that the calculation was like a wrong way to do it and opened your flanked ups to all kinds of criticism?
00:30:01.440
But is it still the right thing to do to kind of, you know, hey, this is Holy Week, to flip over the tables and say we're going to change this?
00:30:13.580
Like you said, but by the way, guys, this isn't my wheelhouse.
00:30:15.760
Just as an average American looking out, I think it's way too early.
00:30:26.420
And by the way, they've gone away for the past four years of what?
00:30:52.860
I think it's like, and by the way, if some people are saying as early as this summer,
00:30:58.840
if the market by summer is choppy, this is not going to be pretty.
00:31:04.920
Midterms, if it goes like this, I know it's too late.
00:31:12.640
But again, this is the part about how things work in negotiation.
00:31:17.040
If you read Trump's book of Art of the Deal, the amount of times he was willing to go past
00:31:23.840
the level of pain that the average negotiator couldn't handle, that's a skill set.
00:31:30.160
I don't know if he's going to practice that here because in that sense, the pain is you.
00:31:42.460
So I don't know how he's going to manage that pain because maybe he can handle pain for himself
00:31:46.360
and his employees, but maybe the pain when he sees around his people, what they're going
00:31:49.500
to be saying, maybe it's going to be different.
00:31:50.640
I don't think anyone saw a $10 trillion meltdown in the equity markets.
00:31:57.540
I mean, the day before they announced, we knew the announcement was coming on April 2nd.
00:32:02.880
April 1st, the market was up, flat top a little bit.
00:32:07.100
A $10 trillion, $1,600 on a Friday, $2,600 on the Monday, $1,500 the next day, up a thousand.
00:32:18.660
He said, wait a minute, maybe this isn't the right.
00:32:22.260
We thought it sounded great, and I agree with you that it should have been, let's use this
00:32:27.360
to lower all tariffs, but they didn't realize how much the market anticipated the downdraft.
00:32:33.380
But why do your guys feel that way in the markets?
00:32:36.280
Okay, like I've done a really weird thing on my show since this happened.
00:32:42.820
So guys who are, like you, like you guys, I'm having them come on my show now, not polished
00:32:50.320
These are guys, they're real institutional traders.
00:32:53.040
They're real economics working as analysts for big places.
00:32:55.700
And they're saying, look, they needed to message this first.
00:33:01.020
You had to tell us what your plan was, why you were doing it this way, and you had to
00:33:05.340
hold to it because we're afraid with Trump of uncertainty or what, you know, we call chaos
00:33:11.980
And they didn't do that, and I think they didn't do it because he didn't have a plan.
00:33:15.880
He had what Tom is talking about, which is a basic feel and a tactic to get it in.
00:33:28.260
He can't look at the people who don't like what he's doing and saying, but you're going
00:33:34.260
No, he's got to be responsive to the criticism.
00:33:36.480
And the problem is when he's responsive to the criticism, it makes it even worse because
00:33:50.620
A lot of you have been asking about the Cigar Lounge that you want to come to it.
00:33:56.040
This last Friday was the biggest event we ever had at the Cigar Lounge, which was fantastic.
00:34:05.960
Thursday, we're not doing a podcast in a morning.
00:34:08.740
Thursday, we're doing a live podcast at our comedy club at Cigar Lounge, $59.90 live.
00:34:23.560
No matter whether you buy the regular ticket, the general, the premium, or VIP, if you get
00:34:28.160
the ticket and you're there early, we're going to give private tours of the Cigar Lounge and
00:34:35.920
I mean, it's going to be, if you've been to it before, it's a spectacle.
00:34:39.680
The energy, the vibe, the announcements, different things that we do on a lot of people networking
00:34:45.860
The website, Rob, if we can give them the website so some of the folks on Spotify can
00:34:59.940
So go lower, Rob, lower, lower for the tickets.
00:35:05.260
VIP, you get a chance to actually go afterwards to the Cigar Lounge and we'll be with you guys.
00:35:09.340
And we're doing it Thursday instead of Friday because Friday is Good Friday.
00:35:13.920
Come on down, bring a friend, network, join the rest of us.
00:35:18.200
If you've been to it before, typically the people that have been to it before, they know
00:35:23.160
This year, we have fewer VIPs because platinum members get first on those seats.
00:35:28.620
So if you want to have a VIP seat, hurry up and place your order and we'll see you guys
00:35:32.400
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00:35:35.100
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