Valuetainment - “I Should’ve Fired Her Earlier” - Ex Daily Wire on Candace Owens

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00:00:05.220 Yeah, hey, who should I take in the Boston game?

00:00:07.280 Well, statistically speaking.

00:00:08.840 Nah, no more statistically speaking. I want hot takes. I want knee-jerk reactions. 0.99

00:00:13.280 That's not really what I do.

00:00:15.440 Is that because you don't have any knees? Or...

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00:00:30.000 We terminated Candace Owens, which I feel like was a morally important thing to do

00:00:37.120 and important for the health of the conservative movement more broadly.

00:00:41.480 Ten out of ten times you would have fired her again?

00:00:43.780 Or is there a part of you like we could have had? 0.51

00:00:45.900 Ten out of ten times I would have fired her again. 0.98

00:00:47.800 Nine out of ten times I would have fired her two months earlier. 1.00

00:00:50.860 How about?

00:00:51.340 Not a minute of regret.

00:00:52.880 One out of ten times would you have signed her?

00:00:55.540 Yeah.

00:00:56.920 So the signing was good.

00:00:58.240 Yeah, I mean, it's easy.

00:00:59.200 I've said that I look back and signing her was the biggest mistake of my life.

00:01:02.260 That's not actually, of my professional life.

00:01:03.620 That's not actually fair or true.

00:01:06.580 Not firing her earlier is a bigger mistake, more of a bigger moral mistake. 0.98

00:01:11.520 I had misgivings about Candace when we hired her.

00:01:15.640 But on the whole, I believe that she would be, that she was and would continue to be

00:01:20.740 a force for good.

00:01:21.440 I believe that we could successfully help her trend in a positive direction.

00:01:29.200 I believed, I believed and still believe that she's the, she has the most star power of any

00:01:35.100 person I've ever met. That's after 20 years in Hollywood. I mean, I've met giant movie stars.

00:01:38.860 Candace has more it than any other personality I've ever encountered. Winsome, charming,

00:01:44.560 hugely talented. So in retrospect, is it a mistake that I hired her? Sure, because of the way it

00:01:52.720 played out. But I wouldn't say one out of 10, I would have hired her. You know, seven out of 10 0.81

00:01:58.260 do-overs I still would have hired her. The reason why I'm asking this question is the following

00:02:01.680 look I look at I look at everybody as a talent right I look at Candice as a talent I look a lot

00:02:06.360 of these guys as talent you know Jordan Peterson all these guys yep is it worth doing it because

00:02:12.220 I don't think anybody's going to be able to control Candice I don't think anybody's going

00:02:17.480 to be able to control even a Tucker I don't think anybody's going to be able to control some of these

00:02:21.560 you know the talent so it is it like even now you're not there anymore would you go back into

00:02:28.360 the model ever let's just say you raise a hundred million dollars would you go back to signing

00:02:31.600 talent again or how would you do it differently would you go after the best the current Jordan

00:02:36.560 Peterson the next Michael Knowles the next Matt Walsh would you make that investment yes

00:02:43.060 breaking talent is very difficult you know seeing talent in someone who doesn't already

00:02:49.840 have an established audience, is very, very difficult.

00:02:52.680 Obviously, at the time that I started working with Ben,

00:02:55.860 he had been the youngest syndicated columnist in the country,

00:02:58.560 so he was obviously a talented guy.

00:03:00.520 He had made some sort of cable news appearances,

00:03:03.340 obviously a talented guy, had a sort of small,

00:03:08.100 one-market radio show, was developing himself in that regard.

00:03:13.320 But he wasn't obvious.

00:03:14.540 It was not obvious that he was going to be Ben Shapiro to most people.

00:03:17.320 you know i i'm not the only one who saw it ben's family knew it ben believed in himself

00:03:23.820 who else knew outside of family because family's going to believe and you believe but who else

00:03:27.540 anybody else ben's family believes in him uniquely not just the way that all

00:03:31.040 ben's family wasn't just supportive they really believed you know uh but no not not many people

00:03:36.900 saw what ben was going to be um michael knowles you know michael i saw michael as huge talent um

00:03:45.780 But Michael hadn't done anything like this.

00:03:47.360 He was an actor, and I could tell that he was gifted as an actor,

00:03:50.080 but he hadn't done anything like this.

00:03:51.840 Brett Cooper.

00:03:53.520 I've seen some pictures, old-school pictures of Michael Knowles.

00:03:57.620 You know, good-looking young stud, Michael Knowles.

00:04:03.320 Just the other day, they were telling me, this guy looks like an actor.

00:04:06.880 He looks like an actor that's, you know, maybe right there.

00:04:10.240 Like, that picture looks like he was on General Hospital.

00:04:12.060 You know, he was, like, on, you know, some of the.

00:04:14.080 If that guy had gotten one single hit on General Hospital, you'd have never seen him.

00:04:19.200 Michael wanted to be an actor.

00:04:20.940 He had it so bad.

00:04:22.940 Michael had it so bad that when he started working for us, he came to work for us as

00:04:27.180 he had been doing Andrew Klavan's personal social media.

00:04:31.860 And so we hired him to be our social media director.

00:04:34.100 How old is he at this time?

00:04:35.160 Oh, none.

00:04:35.960 He's none years old, you know.

00:04:37.220 I don't know, 22.

00:04:39.380 Okay, so he's a baby.

00:04:40.320 He's a baby.

00:04:41.980 And 23, maybe.

00:04:43.220 So Michael comes over, and I was like, man, this guy, he's so freaking charming and winsome, and he's so smart.

00:04:50.320 The audience, if you ever put a camera on him, even for a little social media video, everybody loves him.

00:04:55.500 And so I started working on him, you know.

00:04:58.320 And I remember very clearly taking him to breakfast one day at my favorite breakfast spot in L.A. called Jinkies in Sherman Oaks.

00:05:07.260 And I just told him, I said, Michael, you got to walk away from the acting.

00:05:11.580 Like, it's a waste of you, and you're going to spend your entire life chasing the thing that you don't have

00:05:20.420 when I'm telling you that there's a thing that you can have right now.

00:05:23.480 And the acting thing, acting is a thing you can just do in success.

00:05:29.700 Like, it's not a thing that you, you know, the only time that acting is impossible is right now.

00:05:34.240 But come do the thing that's possible for you.

00:05:35.860 Come use your gifts, you know.

00:05:36.760 and uh but even at that we we had this idea one day that we were going to make this movie that

00:05:43.660 andrew clavin and i had worked on a script together about samson from the bible and it

00:05:49.220 was ever read samson syndrome the book no okay so maybe that was a book please continue samson

00:05:54.040 you and you and clavin yeah and michael gets it in his head that we're going to cat this movie

00:06:00.760 isn't baked this the script is good drew did a great job but i mean this this movie never got

00:06:05.320 past first base Michael Knowles started gaining weight so that he could look like a Jewish warrior 0.87

00:06:13.600 he was like you guys are gonna put me in it right it's like Michael I don't think we're gonna make 0.74

00:06:17.300 this movie and there's no way I'm gonna put you in it he starts having pizzas delivered to work

00:06:21.880 he gets on a on a regime where I think he gained 30 pounds no he can't gain I mean he he blew up

00:06:29.040 like a big red balloon wow because he thought it was gonna give it that's how bad this guy had it

00:06:33.500 to be to be an actor you know but look what he actually is look what he's accomplished in the

00:06:39.340 time that michael's been doing a show he's educated himself i mean he went to yale he was no he wasn't 0.51

00:06:44.460 a slob no no no no mike he's educated himself michael's honestly one of the most i don't know

00:06:51.140 i may put him as number one most likable out of all the conservative talent in the world i don't

00:06:56.360 know if i put anybody ahead of him and incredibly intelligent and the same with brett cooper brett

00:07:00.780 Cooper was a Hollywood actress. 1.00

00:07:02.140 She was a series regular on a show called Heathers.

00:07:07.920 But she had never succeeded in commentary.

00:07:11.320 She never succeeded as an online host.

00:07:13.600 My team had created this show called The Comment Section. 0.83

00:07:16.380 We had cast a girl to be in it, 0.85

00:07:18.660 and it had not worked out with the first gal that we cast. 0.66

00:07:22.020 So they went back to square one looking for someone.

00:07:24.000 They'd created this format, and they thought the format would work,

00:07:26.180 but they needed a good host.

00:07:27.100 They found Brett.

00:07:28.480 They brought her to me, and it was just obvious. 0.99

00:07:30.100 this gal had enormous talent um but at that time it was completely unrecognized talent now hiring a 0.78

00:07:36.820 jordan peterson at the height of his career that costs a lot of money um but it's kind of a no

00:07:42.340 brainer you guys didn't make money on that of course you want jordan peterson on your brain

00:07:45.480 did you make money off of peterson you know we made a little bit of money not that much right

00:07:49.740 but what peterson but what peterson did is he helped secure the brand he helped to elevate

00:07:54.280 the brand i remember the announcement massive announcement the whole what was it the lobster

00:07:58.280 thing you guys put on the website it was you know all this stuff that so so going back maybe this is

00:08:04.080 the better question to ask is the model a model of getting household names or building well it's

00:08:11.400 both you secure the brand with some household names but the the economic model is in breaking

00:08:16.380 new talent got it and of course it's the case as you see with brett you can build talent you can't

00:08:22.120 make someone talented we're not responsible for brett being talented that's brett but we're

00:08:27.480 responsible for helping come alongside that talent, cultivating it, building a brand around

00:08:31.620 it. The day comes when she wants to leave, she can take that. An audience is going to follow her

00:08:36.800 online. We have parasocial relationships with audiences. They're going to follow us to some

00:08:40.220 degree. She's really been able to build on that. And I think particularly today in the post-second

00:08:49.340 Trump win, you experienced it here, I'm sure, the huge change in how the platforms treated us after

00:08:55.300 Trump won again in 2024. Suddenly you're not being demonetized. Suddenly you're not being

00:09:01.360 shadow banned. Suddenly you're not being boxed out. Right now is a great moment for independent

00:09:05.860 talent to have independent success. This is just a phase like every other phase. It's a cycle.

00:09:14.040 The Democrats are going to take power again at some point in the future. The platforms are going

00:09:18.020 to turn on us again at some point in the future. And networks are going to be more valuable to

00:09:24.060 talent again in the future because they provide. Networks are going to be more valuable to talent

00:09:28.380 in the future. What do you mean by that? Well, I think networks were very helpful to talent

00:09:34.620 in the Biden years because we helped talent navigate. Instead of being independent, go with

00:09:40.240 somebody. Go with somebody. So during the conservative, go by yourself. During a liberal,

00:09:44.100 team up with somebody. I think that right now that certainly seems to be the case. Interesting

00:09:47.640 perspective. So, okay. So Crowder, would you have done anything differently with Crowder?

00:09:54.060 I would have called him from California instead of Nashville,

00:09:58.280 so it was a one-party consent state.

00:10:00.380 No, no.

00:10:02.040 It was a technical statement.

00:10:03.600 There are only few people who will understand.

00:10:07.020 No, I wouldn't have done anything.

00:10:08.340 I stand by the offer that we put in front of Crowder.

00:10:10.400 It was a good-faith offer.

00:10:12.300 It was a lot of money.

00:10:13.540 It was a very respectful offer.

00:10:15.940 I think Crowder showed sort of like personal disloyalty and disrespect,

00:10:20.640 And I think it kind of shows some of what's wrong with our business that what Crowder ultimately did was he needed a controversy to launch himself as an independent talent.

00:10:30.900 And a great controversy is to get into a fight with the big guys, you know.

00:10:36.360 And by the way, Candice defended the guys hardcore against Crowder.

00:10:39.060 I don't know if you remember that. 0.98

00:10:39.860 Candice went hardcore after Crowder.

00:10:41.580 Yeah, I was very appreciative of her.

00:10:42.840 Yeah, I remember that.

00:10:43.620 I remember because to me, I'm in the middle, right?

00:10:46.400 Like, I don't know if, you know, what level of, to me, I'm more in the place where I'm thinking, is it worth going in and building long-term, or do I have to deal with every four to eight years, depending on who the president is, that the talent's going to go and be independent and say, we don't need you.

00:11:03.180 We can do it.

00:11:03.740 Do we do it?

00:11:04.200 Do we not do it?

00:11:05.160 Well, but you say, I understand that.

00:11:08.460 Andrew Klavan, Michael Knowles, Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh, Jordan Peterson, these talent never, never left.

00:11:15.600 Right.

00:11:15.780 I mean, Jordan has left as a result of—I don't know if he's left.

00:11:19.100 He's sidelined.

00:11:19.820 No, no, no.

00:11:20.520 He's fine.

00:11:21.380 He's just sidelined.

00:11:22.240 He's just sidelined.

00:11:25.000 Candace, we fired, and Brett left.

00:11:27.440 We've had one talent really leave in the way that you would be concerned about talent just leaving you.

00:11:33.160 You have to continually help talent to become more successful.

00:11:37.200 If the network is helping talent get more views, more money in their pocket, more opportunity for growth, then they're going to be incentivized to stay with you.

00:11:48.280 And if you fail at that, you're going to lose them.

00:11:50.460 Sometimes you might lose them for other reasons because human relationships are complicated, business is complicated.

00:11:55.220 But for the most part, talent is going to go where they see opportunity.

00:12:01.380 So you just have to be the opportunity.

00:12:02.620 What do you look for?

00:12:03.460 So for talent, you know, I built an insurance agency, you know, national 60,000 agents.

00:12:09.400 So I had to look and see what this guy has, what that guy has.

00:12:11.700 And what I used to value of somebody being a broker eventually opening up an office wasn't that valuable.

00:12:16.860 Versus I realized, no, that was sexy, not important.

00:12:19.980 These are the three qualities that are important.

00:12:22.080 What is it on the talent side?

00:12:23.480 Like when you saw Ben or Brett Cooper or Knowles, what are you looking for?

00:12:26.340 Well, in the early days, what I was looking for was ideological alignment meets raw talent, meets what I would consider to be like a strong ethical foundation.

00:12:40.640 So I knew with Ben that I had talent.

00:12:46.120 I knew that I had ideological alignment.

00:12:49.000 And I knew that if Ben – if the going got tough politically, Ben wouldn't say something that he didn't believe just to make money, which to me was incredibly important.

00:12:59.880 I didn't want someone who would go grift.

00:13:01.920 I didn't want someone who would let the audience wield them as opposed to trying to both represent and lead the audience.

00:13:10.020 I call it lowercase r republicanism.

00:13:11.900 You have to lead and you have to represent.

00:13:14.740 There's tension there, but you have to – that's your job.

00:13:17.400 Your job is to navigate that tension, not to become a populist who lets the mob, because the mob is often wrong.

00:13:23.980 Populist answers to the mob, don't answer to the mob, but not an elitist who says the people are wrong and only the smartest guy in the room is right.

00:13:30.920 Lowercase r Republicanism says you have to live somewhere between those two things.

00:13:34.900 You have to be mindful of both of those impulses and navigate them.

00:13:38.440 So, you know, Andrew Klavan. 0.71

00:13:42.360 I knew Andrew Klavan is never going to say one freaking word he doesn't believe. 0.76

00:13:46.480 I'm not going to have a situation where he gets too big for his britches

00:13:50.720 or afraid of the audience or whatever it is, right?

00:13:54.140 Michael, same kind of thing.

00:13:56.500 Matt, same kind of thing.

00:14:01.060 I think that as time went on, I also looked for things like,

00:14:06.220 can they speak to a demographic that we have not been successful at speaking?

00:14:10.640 I took on more business considerations by that, by those later days.

00:14:14.600 And in some cases, I made bad judgment calls because I, you know, you always have these competing priorities, not just in business, but in your life, right?

00:14:24.640 How do I be a good father?

00:14:25.860 How do I be a good CEO?

00:14:28.340 Just those two.

00:14:29.780 You know, people call work-life balance.

00:14:31.180 That's like a total, that's nonsense.

00:14:33.520 But there is tension between those two roles, and it's not a question of which one do you do well.

00:14:38.300 You have an obligation to do both of them very well.

00:14:40.060 You have an obligation to succeed in both of those areas.

00:14:42.100 that requires constantly assessing how you've ordered your priorities.

00:14:46.320 And so in business, it's the same.

00:14:48.820 At The Daily Wire, the number one priority had to be the mission.

00:14:51.740 We're an ideological operation.

00:14:54.140 We exist for an ideological purpose.

00:14:58.480 The math has to be a priority.

00:15:01.180 If you go into negative cash flow, the gear stops spinning right away.

00:15:05.280 So you've got to make money.

00:15:07.040 You have to reach people or you'll be doing this for self-congratulatory reasons

00:15:13.220 as opposed to actually making an impact and making a difference.

00:15:16.800 And at various times, you get misaligned.

00:15:19.080 At various times, the biggest problem you have is that the company's not making enough money

00:15:22.140 and you're going to run out of cash in 90 days.

00:15:24.160 And so you hard pivot toward addressing that problem.

00:15:26.760 But if you stay in a position where making money is the number one priority,

00:15:32.240 then definitionally all of your other priorities become subordinate to that one,

00:15:35.780 which means the ideology the mission becomes subordinate to money which means character

00:15:40.840 becomes subordinate to money which means um honesty and integrity become subordinate to

00:15:47.860 to money so you're constantly fighting that and i think that you know in the case of of

00:15:53.560 some of you know particularly say with candace i i probably had miss

00:16:00.160 misaligned my priorities a bit there.

00:16:03.400 I thought she can speak to a whole range of people

00:16:06.600 who we're not great at speaking to,

00:16:07.940 women in particular. 1.00

00:16:11.040 She's a much more aggressive fighter 1.00

00:16:14.220 than any of the rest of us are.

00:16:15.640 I mean, we're all fighters.

00:16:16.380 Daily Wire is always fighting,

00:16:17.300 but we sort of fought from a kind of intellectual. 1.00

00:16:22.060 Candace, she'll knife you, you know?

00:16:24.260 And I thought, we need that.

00:16:25.320 That's a color that we need in the sort of tapestry.

00:16:30.160 and I think that I probably didn't prioritize rightly whether or not I really believe that

00:16:38.440 Candace would always say what she believes is true. Did I really believe that Candace would

00:16:43.200 behave ethically? Yeah. She was famous. She was a huge opportunity. She had these, 0.96

00:16:50.260 she represented opportunities in areas we didn't have. And I, I kind of let myself

00:16:54.320 make a decision from probably the wrong place. With her, with Candace. Got it. And of course,

00:17:00.160 Of course, other decisions along the way, but specific to talent.

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Valuetainment - June 18, 2026

“I Should’ve Fired Her Earlier” - Ex Daily Wire on Candace Owens

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