Jefferson Descendant Loses His Mind- Calls Pat a “f＊ckin assh＊le＂
Episode Stats
Words per minute
162.50668
Harmful content
Misogyny
7
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Hate speech
11
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Summary
Lucius Truscottcottcott, a Jefferson descendant, joins Patrick Biddy on Valuetainment to discuss his opinion that the Jefferson Memorial in Washington, D.C. should be replaced with a statue of Harriet Tubman.
Transcript
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I've never in my career have been called an effing asshole.
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But my guest today, Lucius Truscott, who is a Jefferson descendant, called me that at
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And I have a feeling when you listen to this, you're going to have some opinions about it.
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And I want to hear your thoughts once you finish listening to this interview.
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Lucius Truscott, thank you so much for being a guest on Valuetainment.
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That paper, that article you wrote on New York Times, you explained your position.
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You explained where, you know, why you think this ought to be taking place.
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But maybe for the audience that hasn't written the article, why do you think Jefferson's memorial
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must be taken down and replaced by Harriet Tubman?
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I made a suggestion that it might be time that we considered taking down Jefferson's memorial
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because of everything that's going on in the country today.
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I think a lot of things are being re-examined right now.
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You know, the Pentagon just recently banned the use of the Confederate flag.
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States around the country, including in the South, are taking down monuments to Confederate
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And I think it's time that we had a look at some of the worship that's been given to some
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of our founding fathers, one of whom is Thomas Jefferson.
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In my article, what I said was I think that Jefferson's home, that's Monticello, is a much
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better memorial to him than the statue that stands in Washington, D.C.
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Because his home at Monticello, nowadays, anyway, tells the whole story of Jefferson,
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Jefferson the whole man, including his flaws and some of the aspects of him that were just
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straight ahead immoral, including the fact that he owned over 600 slaves during his lifetime.
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But if you visit Monticello today, you'll learn about that history of slavery.
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You'll learn that Jefferson fathered six children with his slave Sally Hemings.
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They built the house, they built the outbuildings, they worked the land, they made Monticello possible.
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When you go to the Jefferson Memorial of Martian at D.C., on the other hand, what you see is
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this grand 19-foot-tall statue of Jefferson and inscriptions on the walls that celebrate
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But the problem with that is, Jefferson may have written the words,
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all men are created equal, but he really didn't do very much in his life to make that happen.
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And so I suggested that it might be time to take down the monument to Jefferson and replace it.
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And I thought, well, who can you replace Thomas Jefferson with?
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And then I thought, well, maybe we ought to, instead of worshipping the so-called founding fathers
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that I've been hearing about for 50 years of my life, maybe it's time to honor some of America's founding mothers.
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Harriet Tubman was a slave who escaped slavery, helped to set up the Underground Railroad to help escape slaves,
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And then during the Civil War, fought on the side of the Union as an armed scout against the Confederate Army.
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And then after the Civil War, she worked for the rights of freed slaves.
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You know, in this way, I think that Harriet Tubman really contributed to the founding of the country after slavery, after 1865.
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You know, the United States wasn't just founded when Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence in the 18th century.
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It's been going through a founding over 200 years.
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And I think it's time that we started celebrating some of the people that have helped found and helped form a more perfect union like Harriet Tubman has.
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This week, we just had the death of another founder, John Lewis, who worked so hard for civil rights in the 1960s
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and, of course, marched across the Edmund Pettus Bridge with all the people that marched that day
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and spent his entire life working for civil rights in the South.
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And these are, these, Harriet Tubman and John Lewis are great, great people, great Americans.
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And I think it's time to honor people like them.
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So it's a tragedy what happened with John Lewis.
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Obviously, he's, I think I can say, admired, adored, respected by many.
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And with Harriet Tubman, I don't think anybody would dispute the fact that to put up a statue.
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But to read what you said in the article, you said, that's why we don't need the Jefferson Memorial to celebrate him.
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He should not be honored with a bronze statue, 19 feet tall, surrounded by a colonial of white marble.
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The time to honor the slave-owning founders of our imperfect union is past.
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The ground, which should have moved long past, has at last shifted beneath us.
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And it's time to honor one of our founding mothers, a woman who fought as an escaped slave to free,
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those still enslaved who fought as an armed scout of the Union Army against the Confederacy,
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a woman who helped to bring into being a more perfect union after a slavery process that continues to this day.
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In Jefferson's place, there should be another statue.
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Well, my question for you would be, why replace it?
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Why not just put it in a different place and leave Jefferson Memorial where it's at?
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Well, I think that I said in the article, I mean, if you've got the article there in front of you, then you've read it.
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And I just gave you a reason that we should do that.
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So your suggestion isn't that, you know, you're saying the Jefferson statue, you know, at his 5,000 acres of plantation is plenty.
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If you really want to find out his history, go there.
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Let's tear down one down and replace with Harriet Tubman.
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What I'm asking is, why don't we keep that one since it's part of history and let's just put another statue of Harriet Tubman?
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But I think it's time to honor other people in the same way that we honored Thomas Jefferson.
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And the way to honor someone in the same way you honored Thomas Jefferson is, put a statue where his statue was.
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Look down at my article and see if you see the words tear them down.
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Don't say, don't tell these listeners that I said tear down Thomas Jefferson.
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Why not keep it where it's out and let's put Harriet Tubman somewhere else?
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You're saying, why wouldn't you want to tear it down?
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Let me give the most technically accurate statement here.
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Why physically move it from the place the current statue is at to another place and put Harriet Tubman in the same exact real estate that Thomas Jefferson is currently in?
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Because I said that it's time that we honored some people other than these so-called founding fathers of ours.
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And I think it's time that we honored a founding mother.
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Lucian, let me ask you, what country would you say is the greatest country in the world?
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What do you think is the greatest country in the world?
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I lived there when Khomeini was there and couldn't wait to leave Iran and went to Germany, lived at a refugee camp.
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And after living at Germany in a refugee camp for two years, came to the States, it was a dream to come to America.
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I came here, served at the 101st Airborne Division Aerosol proudly because I love this country and it changed my life.
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And I'm asking you, what do you think is the greatest country in the world?
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Oh, I think the United States of America is the greatest country in the world.
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Why do I think the United States is the greatest country in the world?
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What kind of questions are these you're asking me?
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I asked you what you thought the greatest country in the world was.
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I don't care why you think the United States is the greatest country.
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Based on the premise that I say it's the greatest country in the world.
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Do you think the Declaration of Independence has something to do with it?
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Do you think the Declaration of Independence has something to do with it?
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Yeah, I think the Declaration of Independence has something to do with it.
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I'm not going to sit here and go through this pity-pat, nitpicky little...
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This pity-pat, little nitpicky line of questioning you're giving me.
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I know who wrote the Declaration of Independence.
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You know, I got criticized a lot when I took my Sally Hemings cousins to Monticello because
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people said that I was undermining Thomas Jefferson by showing that Thomas Jefferson fathered children
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Then I don't think what I'm suggesting undermines Thomas Jefferson either.
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There's a big difference between bringing people together, which I think you did in 1999 or 1998,
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which was the first family reunion from both sides, which was a beautiful thing you did.
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Well, because I think maybe we're bringing people to get different people together now
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You know, how do you think black people think about, especially the ones who were descended
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from slaves, how do you think that they think when they go to see Thomas Jefferson, 19 feet
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tall, in this big monument in Washington, D.C.?
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I have one of my Hemings cousins, Shannon Lanier, that wrote an article for CNN, and he suggested
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In fact, I don't really understand why you're so offended by this.
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You and I are living in a country where we're free to say whatever we can.
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You can totally disagree with me, and I can disagree with you because we live in America.
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And this happened because a lot of people sacrificed for us to get here.
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So, I mean, what you're saying right now, I mean, it's like same thing as me saying,
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should Jews call for the pyramids to be torn down since they were most likely built by
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Should Prophet Muhammad, who was a slave trader, should mosques be torn down?
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I just wanted to make sure that my girlfriend is listening to this garbage that's coming
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What I love the fact is that you disagree with this.
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Here's a guy that was born in Iran who loves the country your great-grandfather built.
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This is a guy that escaped Iran to come to America, and I'm defending your country.
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And because I was born in Japan after the war, before there was an immigration and naturalization
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treaty with the country of Japan that didn't exist in 1947, I was naturalized probably the
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I have an immigration naturalization certificate the same way you do.
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You cannot explain me being born in Iran and you being born in a military base.
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Yeah, you know, look, I understand that there's better places to go to that's going to be safe
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and interviews to be done, but I was wondering to know if you were going to ask some questions,
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Just out of curiosity, you're somebody that's written a lot.
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Who would you say the best president we've had in the last 100 years?
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The best president we've had in the last 100 years?
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You know, I don't have to tell you these things.
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This is like sitting here asking me, what is my favorite movie?
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I don't tell you what my favorite novel is or my favorite movie.
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I don't have to tell you what my favorite president is.
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Did we get a disclaimer saying we can't ask questions on movies or things like this?
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So we were just told, let's do an interview with questions, right?
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So you said Barack Obama is your favorite president.
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Here's what Barack Obama said, February 10th, 2014.
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As one of our founding fathers, the person who drafted our Declaration of Independence,
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somebody who not only was an extraordinary political leader, but also one of our great
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scientific and cultural leaders, Thomas Jefferson represents what's best in America.
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I don't think owning slavery represents what's best in America.
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I think to go back and to assume a time where every one of our parents or lineage is linked
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So I'm sure you're familiar with the Syrian and the Armenian genocide.
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So I can go back and say, it's not fair to do this.
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And sure, I can ask for a lot of things, but that's history.
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So if America wants to put a statue up, I don't see an issue with that.
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Well, and you haven't been listening to me because I've explained it.
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I have been, but you haven't answered a lot of questions.
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And maybe it's safer to go to a place where you give them the questions to ask you where
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You should have told me up front, these are 98 questions you can't ask.
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But if you agree to the interview, you don't want to do the interview.
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If you agree to the interview, the part of interview is answering questions.
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I don't have to answer these pity, pat, little, nip-picky questions.
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I'm not going to answer your nip-picky little questions like, who's asking me who's my favorite
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Because your favorite president said, because your favorite president said Thomas Jefferson
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You don't like the fact that I wrote that article for the New Yorker.
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And let me tell you what was beautiful about the videos that you have.
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Every single one of the interviews you've done, I watched.
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And I believe the gentleman's name is Shannon Lanier.
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It was beautiful seeing the two of you guys together.
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It was beautiful seeing you bringing a family together.
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It was beautiful seeing you taking there to history together.
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It was a wonderful thing to do because that's how you unify.
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That's something where it gets me emotional to sit there and watch and say, I love this.
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So before you jump to conclusion and judge this guy interviewing you, you have to understand
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And he's asking you basic questions to see where you are with why the statue is.
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You asked me why you think, why I think we ought to take down the statue of Thomas Jefferson.
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Yeah, then I asked you some other basic questions you refused to answer.
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What, basic questions like, who's my favorite president?
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And you asked me what country I believe is the best.
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I asked you what country do you believe is the greatest country in the world.
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Who I think is the greatest country in the world.
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Well, if you can't remember what my answer was, maybe one of the guys in your studio
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And the follow-up question was, why do you think America is the greatest country?
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So if you've got millions of 20-year-olds that are watching you in America who are on
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your side hoping to learn from you, they're hoping somebody with your level of wisdom
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I mean, based on that, I will do one last question for you.
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And I have a feeling I know where this answer is going.
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If you look closely in this painting, there are two books behind me in this painting.
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The two books sitting there had this painting custom made.
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One you recognize on the top possibly if you can see it.
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I learned that you prefer easy questions than tough ones.
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And tough ones kind of irritate you a little bit, which I can't help you with.
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Tough ones like, who's your favorite president?
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Because your favorite president admires Jefferson.
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That's because your favorite president, who's the first African-American president, said
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that Thomas Jefferson represents what's best in America.
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I disagree with him because I don't think owning slaves represents what's best in America.
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Do you think that slavery was what's best about this country?
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One of the worst things that was done in America.
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The only thing I disagree is why take the statue and replace it with Harriet Tubman rather
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I'm disagreeing with why take it and replace it.
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Why not just put it elsewhere and recognize both things?
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You're one of my favorite interviews of all time.
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Every single interview he had done, every new one, old one, year old, six years old,
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seven years, I watched every single one of them out of respect to him and his lineage,
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and I was curious to know why he wanted to move.
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Why not just put another statue there with Harriet Tubman right next to it?
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Why having to take away the statue and put it at a different place?
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Did you sit there and say, Pat, I think I absolutely disagree with you.
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And also, do you think he really loves America?
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This was a 90-minute interview, and it wasn't going anywhere, and he wasn't answering any
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Was there any unfair questions that were asked in this interview regarding him being part
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of the lineage of Jefferson to want to move it, remove it to another place?
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And by the way, if you haven't already subscribed to Valuetainment on iTunes, please do so.
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