Valuetainment - April 24, 2025


＂Luigi Magione Is A Martyr＂ - Andrew Callaghan EXPOSES America's DARK Obsession With Vigilantes

Hosted by
Patrick Bet-David
Mentioned
Luigi Mangione Joker Taylor Lorenz Dark Knight Rises Batman Begins Johnny Carson Robert De Niro Ken Klippenstein Charles Manson Errol Morris Adam Curtis Ted Bundy Gordon Murray Tesla Tracy Bane Dude Stud
＂California Can't Compete＂ - Ben Affleck BLASTS State's Failed Policies For Hollywood's Collapse ＂Elon Is Batman＂ - Andrew Callaghan Reveals DARK Side Of Anti-Musk Protests

Episode Stats


Length

11 minutes

Words per minute

225.71

Word count

2,610

Sentence count

223

Harmful content

Misogyny

4

sentences flagged

Toxicity

3

sentences flagged

Hate speech

4

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

On this episode of the podcast, we talk about our favorite movie, Batman: The Dark Knight, and why it's so relatable and relatable. We also talk about the Luigi Mangione story and why he's a hero to many.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 We got a lot of stuff that's going on right now that, you know, it's kind of timely with
00:00:04.160 Luigi Mangione, you know, the protest for that and, you know, Tesla, Elon and, you know,
00:00:09.700 United.
00:00:10.140 There's a bunch of stuff that's going on.
00:00:11.420 But let's start off with something very important that you and I were talking about.
00:00:14.500 I think it's probably the most important issue that most people are not aware of.
00:00:18.080 And that is your favorite movie.
00:00:19.500 Your favorite movie of all time is?
00:00:21.040 The Dark Knight, the second film in the Christopher Nolan Batman series.
00:00:24.060 And why is it the second one?
00:00:25.480 Well, everyone expects me to say that I'm into like really cutting edge documentaries
00:00:28.380 like by Adam Curtis and Errol Morris and stuff like that.
00:00:31.300 But I actually just love Batman.
00:00:32.860 And I loved it so much when it first came out in 2012.
00:00:35.020 I saw it five times in a row in Ocean City, New Jersey, every matinee for a week straight,
00:00:39.340 just trying to really digest all the different subplots and narratives.
00:00:44.040 Which character, though?
00:00:45.040 I mean, there's the Joker.
00:00:46.320 There's Commissioner Gordon.
00:00:47.840 There's Christian Bale's Batman character was amazing.
00:00:50.740 There's just so much.
00:00:51.800 Batman Begins was a great, you know, segue to the Dark Knight.
00:00:54.280 Dark Knight Rises didn't really do it for me.
00:00:56.440 A little bit too political.
00:00:57.260 Too political for you.
00:00:58.900 Well, you know, Dark Knight Rises was like a metaphor for the Occupy Wall Street movement
00:01:02.120 going too far when they start, you know, when Bane is supposed to be like the commander
00:01:05.640 of Antifa and they roll up in the New York Stock Exchange and start shooting people and
00:01:08.880 stuff.
00:01:09.260 Too divisive.
00:01:10.220 Well, it was literally like I feel like it was subsidized in some way by Wall Street.
00:01:13.040 Yeah.
00:01:13.440 So so but character wise, like who do you relate?
00:01:16.640 Because for me, for the longest time, my podcast set had three characters behind me, Batman,
00:01:21.480 Joker and the Incredible Hulk.
00:01:22.840 And it's like the three personalities I relate to.
00:01:25.580 Right.
00:01:26.240 But which one was it where you said, I kind of feel like I'm I'm this guy in this movie.
00:01:30.180 Well, this is a hard one to answer because if I say I'm like the Joker, that makes me
00:01:33.000 sound like I'm a dark sort of sinister.
00:01:35.020 But I have a Joker side to me as well.
00:01:37.140 You have a lot of vengeance in you where you get Joker brain?
00:01:38.880 It's it's not, though.
00:01:39.980 It's it's when you see somebody that, you know, when you're you're you're sick and tired
00:01:45.580 of being taken advantage of and you can't let go of the you choose a wrong enemy can
00:01:50.240 really destroy your life.
00:01:51.380 And I think that's what happened to him.
00:01:52.720 He couldn't let it go.
00:01:54.180 Yeah.
00:01:54.420 But he's a hero to a lot of people as well.
00:01:56.000 A lot of people followed his fire and the pain that he had.
00:01:59.500 Yeah.
00:01:59.720 I would say that I'm somewhere in between Batman and the Joker.
00:02:02.560 OK.
00:02:03.080 But I think that the Joker is definitely a relatable character, more so in The Dark
00:02:05.900 Knight than he was in the Joaquin Phoenix movie a couple of years ago, which I know you said
00:02:09.260 you were not a fan of.
00:02:09.960 Dude, I walked out 43 minutes into the movie.
00:02:12.140 I go and I look at my wife.
00:02:13.220 We have 20 people at the movies.
00:02:14.420 Rob, were you with us or no when we watch a joke?
00:02:16.160 No.
00:02:16.780 So we're in a movie theater.
00:02:17.800 I'm like, yeah, I'm out.
00:02:19.040 Why?
00:02:19.940 So this is this is divisive, man.
00:02:21.420 You're pinning America against America. 0.56
00:02:22.980 We don't need more of this.
00:02:25.020 And it's interesting because that movie, what ends up happening at the end of that movie?
00:02:28.420 He kills.
00:02:28.980 He ends up killing, is it Robert De Niro, who is that like the Johnny Carson character
00:02:35.360 of the movie?
00:02:35.920 Yeah.
00:02:36.040 He kills.
00:02:36.440 He says, how about another joke, Murray? 1.00
00:02:37.700 And he kills him. 0.87
00:02:38.460 And that was after he killed a couple of bankers on the subway. 0.83
00:02:41.360 After he kills a couple of bankers on the subway.
00:02:43.680 And then that leads to one of the stories, the Luigi Mangione story.
00:02:48.200 Yeah.
00:02:48.760 Wow.
00:02:48.960 Here's a guy.
00:02:50.400 You got Luigi Mangione.
00:02:52.200 You look at his background.
00:02:53.800 Stud of a guy.
00:02:55.360 Students.
00:02:56.120 Good grades.
00:02:57.080 Everything's looking good.
00:02:58.300 Minus the last 90 minutes, he disappears.
00:03:00.140 90 days, he disappears.
00:03:01.080 But you can't really see what's happening then.
00:03:03.680 The people he followed on X, I was one of them.
00:03:06.020 He followed some 74 people who were libertarian type of guys that he followed.
00:03:10.360 So it's not like he followed only right or only left or only middle.
00:03:15.040 He was open minded is what he seemed like.
00:03:16.920 And then all of a sudden, the rage gets there to want to take out the United Healthcare CEO.
00:03:22.780 How much when you hear that story, you went to the rally, by the way, right?
00:03:25.660 What did you hear people saying?
00:03:27.820 Like, what were you noticing that caused people to go rally for this guy?
00:03:31.080 Well, I mean, if the manifesto was legitimate, the one that was leaked, that was published by an independent reporter named Ken Klippenstein, if that's real, it seemed like Luigi Mangione had a lot of grievances against the health insurance claim denial system, particularly how United Healthcare had implemented AI to automatically deny people's health care claims.
00:03:49.060 So people needed treatment, they were paying customers, and there was a machine that had one of the highest insurance claim denial rates of any other major health insurance company.
00:03:57.280 32, 33 percent.
00:03:58.420 Something that was ridiculously high.
00:04:00.400 Can you pull up that number, Rob?
00:04:01.480 People were trying to appeal the robot's decision, and it was almost impossible.
00:04:05.300 You were stuck with someone on the phone for days.
00:04:08.000 And a lot of times during that window where people were waiting to get care, they would pass away.
00:04:11.460 So I'm not sure if he had someone in his family who was affected by the health care policies, but I felt like a lot of people in my generation are kind of fed up with things not changing.
00:04:20.960 You know, the cost of living being ridiculously high, the wages being really low, and they felt like Luigi Mangione was something like a martyr who spoke for the rage of the collective public who feels like nothing is changing.
00:04:31.840 So how should, what do you think is the level to go to?
00:04:38.340 Because some people, what's the one girl lately that's been talking about Luigi Mangione in a very complimentary way?
00:04:45.500 Tracy is a lawyer.
00:04:46.460 Taylor Lorenz.
00:04:47.460 Taylor Lorenz.
00:04:48.180 Have you heard about Taylor Lorenz?
00:04:49.200 Yeah, she helped us.
00:04:50.780 Whenever we lost all gas during a contractual dispute, she leaked all the information, which kind of like segued millions of fans to Channel 5.
00:04:56.860 So shout out to her for that.
00:04:58.560 I'm not sure what she was saying about Luigi.
00:05:00.300 But I think that basically probably what I'm assuming she was saying is that many people felt like he represented the call for direct action.
00:05:08.920 And there's a generational shift to the idea that awareness culture and raising awareness doesn't actually create change.
00:05:14.200 So there's a lot of people.
00:05:14.700 Say that one more time.
00:05:15.540 There's kind of an idea that has persisted over the course of the past couple years, especially with the progressive left in the U.S., that raising awareness doesn't do much to actually create change.
00:05:23.900 And so for someone to break out of the mold of like making people aware and actually take things a step further made people feel some type of revolutionary spirit.
00:05:31.720 Wow.
00:05:32.260 So even if it means killing the CEO.
00:05:34.580 Well, because their logic is, you know, how many people have died as a result of their health care claims being denied.
00:05:42.560 Yeah.
00:05:43.100 Health insurance claims, you know.
00:05:43.920 Yeah.
00:05:44.060 So to you, to somebody that is going through this and you're touching and you're talking to people and you're hearing the arguments at the protest, walking away, what argument got for you to say, it's a little too much?
00:05:57.440 And what argument was like, you know what?
00:05:59.840 These guys may have a point in this area.
00:06:01.600 Which one was it?
00:06:02.480 Well, I mean, the reality is that regardless of like how I felt about the opinions, killing a bunch of CEOs is not going to change any of that infrastructure in the health insurance industry.
00:06:12.300 You know what I mean?
00:06:12.620 That's not like.
00:06:13.020 For sure.
00:06:13.460 I agree with that.
00:06:14.380 See, that was my concern with the movie Joker.
00:06:17.440 So here's a chance for me to be a hero.
00:06:19.580 But the fact that it spurred conversations, I thought was interesting.
00:06:22.100 I mean, just it was fascinating to see such an, you know, the instant valorization of Luigi that happened overnight.
00:06:27.420 Everyone's like, oh, my God, this guy's so hot.
00:06:28.960 We love him.
00:06:29.740 He's our hero.
00:06:30.360 It was interesting because that was very much poisoned by the social media algorithms of the time.
00:06:35.200 You know, we're like Luigi Mangione becomes a hero to so many.
00:06:37.900 And in general, I think that it did spark some good conversations.
00:06:42.600 But I think you can acknowledge that while still saying it's not good to shoot people in the back of the head in the street.
00:06:47.320 Rob, what's that clip, by the way, you just had?
00:06:49.180 Because I think that's the one where she breaks down her argument, right?
00:06:53.020 Can you play this clip?
00:06:53.960 I think she does a good job explaining why she's for Luigi Mangione.
00:06:57.560 And I don't think she's alone.
00:06:58.560 I think there's a lot of people that are probably on her side as well.
00:07:01.060 Go ahead, Rob.
00:07:01.500 It's hilarious to see these millionaire media pundits on TV clutching their pearls about someone standing a murderer when this is this is the United States of America.
00:07:11.700 As if we don't lionize criminals, as if we don't have, you know, we don't stand murderers of all sorts.
00:07:19.060 We give them Netflix shows.
00:07:20.620 There's a huge disconnect between the narratives and angles that sort of mainstream media pushes and what the American public feels.
00:07:28.200 And you see that in moments like this.
00:07:30.040 And I can tell you, I saw the biggest audience growth that I've ever seen because people were like, oh, somebody, some journalist is actually speaking to the anger that we feel.
00:07:40.960 The women who got her outside course in New York. 1.00
00:07:44.060 So you're going to see women especially that feel like, oh, my God. 0.98
00:07:47.500 Right.
00:07:47.760 Like, here's this man who who's a revolutionary, who's famous, who's handsome, who's young, who's smart.
00:07:55.880 He's a person that seems like this morally good man, which is hard to find.
00:08:01.600 But yeah, I just realized women will literally date an assassin before they swipe right on me. 1.00
00:08:08.820 That's where we are.
00:08:11.140 I'm sure you wouldn't like to be comfortable.
00:08:12.800 But he's doing a pretty good job.
00:08:13.860 I've been seeing his stuff last two weeks and I think he's actually doing a pretty good.
00:08:16.260 I don't know who he is, but.
00:08:17.320 Yeah, I think she broke it down quite well in terms of like the romantic appeal as well.
00:08:21.000 I mean, you hear the stories.
00:08:22.220 Who are some of the people that ladies would be lined up in prison just to kind of see him? 1.00
00:08:25.980 Was it Charles Manson?
00:08:26.860 Who else was it?
00:08:27.520 Like people would be lined up.
00:08:28.600 Ted Bundy.
00:08:29.720 He had the Menendez brothers who killed their parents in California.
00:08:33.760 One of them got married while they were behind bars.
00:08:35.860 Wow.
00:08:36.220 I mean, every serial killer has typically had like dozens, if not hundreds of women writing them in prison. 0.96
00:08:40.900 Why do you think that is?
00:08:41.720 I don't know.
00:08:42.020 I think people are just fascinated by the allure of it when people's names are in the headlines,
00:08:45.400 like just someone's sort of profile being that large.
00:08:48.460 Just fame attracts a certain kind of person regardless.
00:08:51.320 And, you know, she said something here, which is very interesting.
00:08:53.920 I was having this conversation with us, Rob.
00:08:55.720 One day you and I, seven of us were at Casa D'Angelo.
00:08:58.420 And you even said this once when you were interviewed with Vice, I believe.
00:09:04.040 And I don't know what the guy asked you.
00:09:05.600 He said something about, did you ever catch yourself, you know, creating content that the audience was reacting to or something like that?
00:09:13.480 I don't know what the context of it was.
00:09:14.840 But we're kind of explaining that where she says, I've never had this many followers.
00:09:18.380 That's not necessarily a good thing.
00:09:20.440 Yeah.
00:09:20.740 Because who is following you?
00:09:22.540 Who is agreeing with you?
00:09:24.560 You know, who is saying, man, I like what you have to say.
00:09:26.640 And all of a sudden you're like, you're in the room with them.
00:09:28.060 You're like, whoa, I don't relate to you guys.
00:09:29.660 Where did you guys show up?
00:09:30.700 Yeah.
00:09:31.420 And that's the thing about social media nowadays in particular is like people kind of become, it's a very fine line to walk when you exist online.
00:09:37.180 It's doing things that you believe in and doing things that, you know, your fans will appreciate and kind of want you to do.
00:09:41.840 Because once you pigeonhole yourself as a certain type of person, you know, your audience quite well.
00:09:45.520 You know that if you say a certain thing to the audience you've built up that they disagree with, a lot of them are going to walk away.
00:09:50.640 You know, for example, like there's a lot of people, both conservative and progressive, who might have opinions about different things like abortion, homelessness, drug, you know, gay marriage, Israel, Palestine, that they know that if they speak their opinion on it, they might lose a significant percentage of their audience.
00:10:04.080 And so I think that keeps a lot of people going in line with what they see as like the majority consensus narrative, as opposed to finding a middle ground and having conversations.
00:10:11.460 Because at the end of the day, everyone's trying to survive too.
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