Valuetainment - Mafia States Of America - FIRST LOOK (AVAILABLE NOW)

00:00:00.000 What is Cosa Nostra to you and does it still have the same meaning today as it did back in the 80s?

00:00:18.000 Cosa Nostra is what kept me alive.

00:00:21.000 Let me straighten something out. I don't know any father but Sonny Francis.

00:00:25.000 I made probably just as much money for the family as Michael did.

00:00:31.000 When that shank was burnt to my hand, I already proved myself. 1.00

00:00:34.000 How? Otherwise that wouldn't happen.

00:00:36.000 How?

00:00:37.000 I proved myself shank.

00:00:39.000 How? Did you kill someone? You didn't live a rough life.

00:00:43.000 Your peak, you were saying you were making how much money per year?

00:00:47.000 We're bringing in five, eight million dollars a week.

00:00:49.000 Cops have ugly things. 0.99

00:00:54.000 Politicians have ugly things. 1.00

00:00:57.000 We do fucking wars and we bomb countries and kill men, women and children. 1.00

00:01:03.000 So let's not get it. 1.00

00:01:06.000 The mafia is ugly and it did ugly things. 1.00

00:01:10.000 But so did the rest of the fucking world. 1.00

00:01:13.000 I don't know. 1.00

00:01:14.000 America Villains

00:01:26.000 Oh, he cried out, he breathed in, from sea to shining sea, yeah.

00:01:40.340 He cried out, he breathed in, from sea to shining sea.

00:01:56.000 What is it about the mafia that people find so fascinating?

00:02:03.500 It's about the power, about the ability to do anything you want, and no one could touch

00:02:11.120 you.

00:02:14.300 But the more powerful they get, sooner or later someone is going to betray you.

00:02:22.340 And in the end, it's always a friend who does the deed.

00:02:26.340 So, Sammy, earlier you were kind of pushing Michael a little bit on the topic of, yeah,

00:02:32.340 but did you actually do the work necessary to be a made man?

00:02:36.340 You kept pushing him on it, pushing him on it, pushing him on it.

00:02:39.920 Let's just say it never happened.

00:02:41.500 What's wrong if he never did that, and if he never killed someone?

00:02:45.280 Isn't that an honorable thing if he didn't?

00:02:47.340 The books in the mafia were closed from 1955 to approximately 1975.

00:02:54.340 Okay.

00:02:55.340 There's a lot of guys who did work, gave beans, did all kinds of things for the mafia, and

00:03:02.340 they waited their turn to become a made member in the mafia.

00:03:06.340 So, if he never did anything, he's actually taken somebody's slot.

00:03:11.960 Somebody who deserved that position.

00:03:13.340 It's not his fault.

00:03:14.340 I'm not saying it's his fault.

00:03:17.340 But that's why I took a little bit of that position that there's nothing wrong with it.

00:03:25.340 His father was a heavyweight, and he proposed him.

00:03:30.340 And he has that clout, that right to do that.

00:03:34.340 But I felt, when a guy, all his life, we don't just make people.

00:03:41.340 There's a process.

00:03:42.340 They know who your mother is, your father is, your brother is, your sister is.

00:03:47.340 They examine what you did.

00:03:49.340 How were you in school?

00:03:51.340 When you got arrested, how did you react?

00:03:53.340 What did you do?

00:03:54.340 When you were asked to do something, did you do it?

00:03:57.340 Did you do it efficiently?

00:04:00.340 Are you honorable?

00:04:02.340 Are you loyal to your friends?

00:04:05.340 They take all of these qualities.

00:04:07.340 And it takes years to develop who they're going to make.

00:04:11.340 They don't just make guys that easy.

00:04:13.340 Michael, so maybe I'm going to ask a pointed question to you that Sammy's been hinting at.

00:04:19.340 Did you ever kill someone as a made man?

00:04:23.340 Well, Patrick, let me tell you this.

00:04:26.340 I learned a lot of things from my father.

00:04:29.340 And one of the things he taught me early on that was very helpful to me, he said,

00:04:34.340 Michael, if you and I committed a crime, no matter what it was,

00:04:40.340 he said, one minute after we commit that crime, if you ask me about it,

00:04:44.340 I'm going to say, what are you talking about?

00:04:45.340 I don't know what you're talking about.

00:04:47.340 Taught me that.

00:04:48.340 As a result, I never got caught on a tape.

00:04:51.340 I never, I always knew when to keep my mouth shut.

00:04:55.340 In all due respect to Sammy, he doesn't know what I did or I didn't do.

00:05:00.340 That's number one.

00:05:01.340 Number two, I don't have immunity for the things that I did in my life.

00:05:05.340 None.

00:05:06.340 I don't have any immunity.

00:05:07.340 If I did or I did not, I wouldn't be talking about it no matter what.

00:05:12.340 So, but I will tell you this, when I took that oath, I earned it.

00:05:17.340 And throughout my years in that life, when I was told to do something, I did it.

00:05:21.340 And now I'm going to leave it at that.

00:05:24.340 I don't expect you to say anything that would harm you or put you in prison.

00:05:31.340 But one time you said that certain people talked about you, said things.

00:05:36.340 So keeping your mouth shut is a good quality.

00:05:39.340 John should have had that quality, to keep his mouth shut.

00:05:42.340 He didn't.

00:05:43.340 I don't knock you for that.

00:05:45.340 But I answer you that that's why some of these people may be complaining or saying something about you.

00:05:51.340 Because maybe they feel you have it.

00:05:54.340 And they're not cops.

00:05:55.340 They're street people.

00:05:56.340 They have vast knowledge of who did what.

00:06:00.340 I don't have those same people knocking me.

00:06:03.340 I told the truth, whatever it is, however the cards fall.

00:06:09.340 And if you did, more power to you.

00:06:16.340 I'm not the guy who's knocking you.

00:06:18.340 And I think you know that.

00:06:20.340 I do.

00:06:21.340 But what I say is that if these people, who are supposed to know, when it comes to that,

00:06:30.340 and if they didn't know, then you got in under false pretenses.

00:06:36.340 You did it.

00:06:38.340 I'm going to give you that.

00:06:39.340 I'm not going to call you a liar.

00:06:41.340 But then they didn't do their homework.

00:06:44.340 Because they put you in before somebody else.

00:06:51.340 That's not an answer to an administration.

00:06:53.340 Sammy, you're assuming that it never happened.

00:06:56.340 And what I'm saying is...

00:06:57.340 I'm not assuming anything.

00:06:58.340 I'm assuming that...

00:06:59.340 You just said, wait a minute, wait a minute.

00:07:01.340 You just said they put me in under false pretenses.

00:07:03.340 How do you know that?

00:07:04.340 As a matter of...

00:07:05.340 I'll tell you...

00:07:06.340 No, no, let me tell you something.

00:07:08.340 If you didn't talk about what you did, I'd never know it.

00:07:12.340 If you didn't go around bragging to people before circumstances change in your life.

00:07:17.340 Hey, I did this.

00:07:18.340 I did that. 1.00

00:07:19.340 I killed this guy. 0.97

00:07:20.340 I never heard that on the street. 0.98

00:07:21.340 I always...

00:07:22.340 Let me finish.

00:07:23.340 I always heard you were a tough guy, a stand-up guy.

00:07:25.340 But I never heard about specifically what you did.

00:07:28.340 Because I don't think you talked about it.

00:07:29.340 And other people shouldn't have been talking about it then, too.

00:07:32.340 The same way, whatever I did, I'm not talking about it.

00:07:34.340 And if anybody else is talking about it, they shouldn't be.

00:07:37.340 I get that.

00:07:38.340 I get that.

00:07:39.340 And you're right.

00:07:40.340 I didn't talk about my crimes with every Tom, Dick, and Harry.

00:07:44.340 But a boss, an administration, I was the underboss.

00:07:47.340 A boss, an underboss, and a conziere has to know these things.

00:07:54.340 According to the Gozanostra rules, they must know.

00:07:57.340 That's why we pass a name around.

00:08:00.340 When you get made, your name went to every four to five families.

00:08:04.340 That's right.

00:08:05.340 Michael Franchise is going to be made.

00:08:08.340 The boss, the underboss, the conziere.

00:08:10.340 Give it to the cabaregins.

00:08:11.340 Cabaregins give it to some of the crew members who were made.

00:08:16.340 So that anybody who knows anything about you could put in, this is what he did.

00:08:22.340 We don't want him to be made.

00:08:24.340 That's right.

00:08:25.340 Or, this is what he is.

00:08:28.340 Sammy was a street guy, I know everything he did.

00:08:31.340 I don't have no proof of what he did, but I know what he is.

00:08:35.340 I know when he got arrested.

00:08:36.340 I know how he conducted himself.

00:08:38.340 Many, many times.

00:08:40.340 So, it's not every time Dick and Harry, and I agree with you.

00:08:44.340 If we kill somebody, and somebody else was supposed to get rid of the body, I don't even ask him.

00:08:49.340 Is it gone?

00:08:50.340 Yeah.

00:08:51.340 I don't ask him, where did you bury him?

00:08:53.340 That's why they can't find Jimmy Hoffa and so many people.

00:08:56.340 Of course, we're tight-mounted when it comes to that.

00:08:59.340 But there is people who know that he's dead.

00:09:01.340 There is people who know who killed him and where they buried him.

00:09:05.340 That's right.

00:09:06.340 That's a necessity.

00:09:08.340 And here's how it's a necessity.

00:09:11.340 That FBI agent, Donnie Brasco, they didn't ask those questions.

00:09:17.340 And what happened?

00:09:19.340 It destroyed half of the Bonanno family.

00:09:23.340 People went to prison. 0.99

00:09:25.340 Of course, we did not know who the fuck he was, where he came from, what he did. 0.98

00:09:30.340 So, it makes it a necessity to know. 0.99

00:09:33.340 And I agree with everything he says.

00:09:36.340 Okay, good.

00:09:37.340 And if you don't say you did anything, and you want to keep that secret, that's okay

00:09:44.340 with me.

00:09:45.340 Me.

00:09:46.340 Even as the underbores. 1.00

00:09:47.340 But my decision would be, no.

00:09:50.340 If you want Michael Frenchy's mate, I don't know anything negative about him.

00:09:56.340 Let's put him on the side until his turn comes.

00:10:02.340 That's if you had no idea what I did or what I didn't do.

00:10:07.340 Right.

00:10:08.340 Okay.

00:10:09.340 Right.

00:10:10.340 That's what I'm saying.

00:10:11.340 That's my job to know.

00:10:12.340 Let me just clarify.

00:10:13.340 So, you're saying that if my name was passed around to all five families, which it was,

00:10:19.340 we know that, and I got made, then they must have made a decision to make me for the right

00:10:26.340 reasons.

00:10:27.340 So, the decision, in my opinion, and what I heard, was because your father, Sonny Frenchy's,

00:10:34.340 who was the underbores, who was wrongly convicted on something, wanted to do him a favor.

00:10:43.340 So, you could take care of your father's businesses or business transactions or money on the street.

00:10:52.340 Not just an associate, but a main member, which would give you the power that an associate don't have.

00:11:02.340 So, they did that.

00:11:04.340 They did that.

00:11:05.340 Did they do the same for Junior's son and Colombo's son?

00:11:09.340 Absolutely.

00:11:10.340 And all the sons that I know, so that, in your opinion of what you're saying, none of us earned the right to be made?

00:11:16.340 No, no, you said you got made in 1975.

00:11:21.340 Correct.

00:11:22.340 The books were closed for 20 years.

00:11:24.340 Correct.

00:11:25.340 I was proposed with guys who were waiting 20, 25 years.

00:11:29.340 That's true.

00:11:30.340 So was I.

00:11:31.340 Yes.

00:11:32.340 But I didn't get, in 75, Frankie DiCicco did, some other guys.

00:11:36.340 I didn't get made, well, let me tell you what happened.

00:11:39.340 The books were closed until 75.

00:11:42.340 Correct.

00:11:43.340 So, tons of guys were waiting.

00:11:45.340 They decided to commission to make 10 guys in each family.

00:11:50.340 Let's see how it goes.

00:11:54.340 So they opened up and they made 10 guys in each family.

00:11:57.340 Kept that pretty quiet.

00:11:58.340 I was super close with Frankie DiCicco.

00:12:01.340 I didn't know right away he even got made.

00:12:04.340 What happened is it went pretty good.

00:12:06.340 In 1976, they said, no problems.

00:12:11.340 It went pretty good.

00:12:12.340 So let's open it again and do it every year.

00:12:15.340 I was made in 1976.

00:12:17.340 Not on the first batch.

00:12:19.340 On the second batch.

00:12:21.340 So, 10, 20, 25 people went in before me.

00:12:25.340 I had a pretty heavy record.

00:12:27.340 I was young.

00:12:28.340 I was only 31.

00:12:30.340 Guys were saying, wow, Sammy, how old are you?

00:12:33.340 31.

00:12:34.340 You went in front of a hell of a lot of guys.

00:12:38.340 I said, well, I don't make that decision.

00:12:42.340 And that's what it is.

00:12:44.340 You were 24.

00:12:45.340 That's right.

00:12:46.340 You said.

00:12:47.340 Yeah.

00:12:48.340 75.

00:12:49.340 75.

00:12:50.340 You were 24 years old.

00:12:51.340 And you went in on the first batch.

00:12:52.340 I did.

00:12:53.340 So, my point was that you went in and took someone's spot who was waiting years.

00:12:59.340 No.

00:13:00.340 That's not true.

00:13:01.340 I'll tell you why.

00:13:02.340 Because for two and a half years prior to that, I was on call every day to do whatever work they asked me to do.

00:13:07.340 As was, let me finish, as was Persico's son, Mike Bumbada, as was Anthony Colombo, and a lot of guys who were sons of guys that were made already.

00:13:21.340 But we had to do what we were told to do.

00:13:23.340 They didn't just go say, hey, because you're a father, come on in.

00:13:25.340 What did Anthony Colombo and what did Karl Mike Persico's son do?

00:13:30.340 I'm going to answer you the same way.

00:13:32.340 I'm going to tell you what John Ganeson did.

00:13:34.340 I was at a commission meeting.

00:13:35.340 Well, I don't know about John.

00:13:36.340 Well, I'll tell you what it is.

00:13:37.340 I don't know about John.

00:13:38.340 I was at a commission meeting.

00:13:40.340 Me and John.

00:13:43.340 Chin Giganti and Benny Agus.

00:13:47.340 I think a muso and a gas pipe.

00:13:53.340 And John, I was across the table like I am with you, looked at me and said to Chin,

00:14:01.340 did you hear about my son?

00:14:04.340 Chin looked up and said, I'm sorry to hear that.

00:14:10.340 That goes in Austria, coming out of Chin. 1.00

00:14:13.340 Who the fuck is your son, should get me, over other people who deserve it. 0.99

00:14:20.340 Now you can do what you want later on. 1.00

00:14:22.340 He didn't come out with all my words, but that's what it meant.

00:14:25.340 John looked at me and I shoved my shoulders as if Chin said what he wanted to say.

00:14:31.340 He had the walls.

00:14:32.340 He was goes in Austria.

00:14:34.340 He had the brains to say, this is people in goes in Austria.

00:14:37.340 He told another boss.

00:14:38.340 John was the boss.

00:14:39.340 Told another boss.

00:14:40.340 Joe Colombo made two of his sons, Anthony and Joseph. 0.99

00:14:44.340 When he was dead, what the fuck happened to Anthony Colombo? 0.98

00:14:48.340 You were in the Colombo family and Joseph Colombo. 0.99

00:14:51.340 They were disappeared, literally.

00:14:54.340 Why? 0.99

00:14:56.340 Because they didn't even fucking belong. 0.99

00:14:58.340 They were nothing. 0.99

00:15:08.340 The word Omerita, you know, to the average person nowadays, Drake has a song called Omerita.

00:15:12.340 We see Omerita on different songs.

00:15:14.340 We see Omerita being used in books, you know, people writing about it.

00:15:18.340 It's got many different meanings, but what did Omerita mean to you?

00:15:21.340 It meant open your mouth when you're in a dentist's office.

00:15:24.340 Don't talk.

00:15:25.340 But the thing is a joke when it's a double-edged sword.

00:15:31.340 If me and you have an agreement not to betray one another, not to talk about anything,

00:15:38.340 to hurt one another in any way, shape, or form, that's a two-way thing.

00:15:43.340 It's not a one-way thing.

00:15:45.340 We have disagreement, handshake.

00:15:48.340 We trust each other.

00:15:49.340 We did all kinds of things together.

00:15:51.340 We're cool. 0.99

00:15:52.340 But tomorrow you turn on me and do something fucking weird. 0.99

00:15:56.340 What's Omerita? 1.00

00:15:58.340 It's bullshit. 1.00

00:15:59.340 You broke it already. 1.00

00:16:01.340 So what do you want me to do?

00:16:03.340 Stay with it?

00:16:04.340 So I'll go to prison.

00:16:06.340 For the rest of my life.

00:16:09.340 To prove I'm what?

00:16:11.340 Tough? 1.00

00:16:12.340 Or how stupid the fuck I am. 1.00

00:16:14.340 When you broke it and you want me to go to prison and you're going to stay home. 1.00

00:16:19.340 Or whatever he did.

00:16:20.340 He left the life because, whatever, with the Russians and the whole thing. 1.00

00:16:25.340 They maybe wanted to kill him at one point.

00:16:28.340 So he's going to be so tough and so smart, so good to Omerita. 1.00

00:16:33.340 He's going to sit there like a fucking statue until we blow his fucking head off. 1.00

00:16:37.340 Take his fucking money. 1.00

00:16:38.340 His wife and kids could go see where the fuck they got to go. 1.00

00:16:41.340 That's a brilliant move on his part. 1.00

00:16:43.340 Oh, what a wonderful man he is.

00:16:45.340 No. 1.00

00:16:46.340 He had the balls to fucking say, here, fuck you and Omerita and whoever, whatever horse 1.00

00:16:52.340 you're riding on and leave. 1.00

00:16:54.340 That's a bulging move.

00:16:56.340 That's not a coward's move. 0.95

00:16:57.340 I was with a guy, a black guy, Fat Cat Nichols. 0.94

00:17:00.340 The guy killed his parole officer.

00:17:03.340 He had a life sentence.

00:17:05.340 Stood up.

00:17:06.340 I was with him in prison. 1.00

00:17:07.340 Tough, tough bastard. 1.00

00:17:08.340 Good guy, too. 1.00

00:17:09.340 His wife is being mistreated.

00:17:12.340 His mother was a drug dealer Tuesday.

00:17:15.340 They're robbing her for money. 0.99

00:17:16.340 Somebody's banging his wife.

00:17:18.340 Good support team, right?

00:17:20.340 Everything's going good.

00:17:22.340 Then they get to him, this Pappy Mason and them, his old crew, and tell him,

00:17:27.340 there's a guy who cooperated and he's in a building.

00:17:32.340 There's a squad car outside.

00:17:34.340 There's two police officers.

00:17:36.340 One guy goes and get coffee. 0.99

00:17:38.340 When he goes and get coffee, we can shoot this guy. 0.99

00:17:40.340 He's a young guy. 1.00

00:17:41.340 And then we can go in and kill the informant. 0.99

00:17:44.340 Fat Cat Nichols says, absolutely not. 1.00

00:17:47.340 Don't do it.

00:17:48.340 No.

00:17:49.340 They do it.

00:17:50.340 Behind his back.

00:17:51.340 The cop that they killed, his brother is an FBI agent.

00:17:55.340 The guy who didn't want to kill him in the house.

00:17:57.340 Here's the shots.

00:17:58.340 He jumps out the window.

00:17:59.340 He's gone.

00:18:00.340 They miss him.

00:18:01.340 Fat Cat Nichols, it's his crew.

00:18:04.340 They indict him.

00:18:05.340 Again.

00:18:06.340 This now, on a capital case, killing a police officer.

00:18:10.340 He's facing the death penalty. 1.00

00:18:12.340 And Fat Cat turns around and says, fuck this. 1.00

00:18:17.340 And cooperates. 1.00

00:18:20.340 Guys will say, he's a rat. 0.98

00:18:22.340 Is that a rat? 0.97

00:18:25.340 I don't know about that.

00:18:27.340 What do you think about Omerta?

00:18:29.340 I'll tell you what Omerta is.

00:18:32.340 And again, I learned it from my dad.

00:18:35.340 When you take that oath, this is what my father's opinion was.

00:18:39.340 Michael, I don't care who betrayed me.

00:18:42.340 I don't care who ratted on me.

00:18:44.340 I don't care how bad the life was.

00:18:47.340 I took an oath.

00:18:48.340 And I couldn't live with myself if I betrayed that oath.

00:18:51.340 I don't care what anybody else did.

00:18:52.340 That's it. 0.93

00:18:53.340 And I'll live this way until I die. 0.84

00:18:55.340 I'm going to die that way with my boots on.

00:18:57.340 He didn't care who wronged him, who did this, who broke him as captain.

00:19:02.340 I made that oath and I'm not going to betray my oath.

00:19:04.340 That's what Omerta is.

00:19:05.340 You took the blood oath.

00:19:07.340 You agreed to keep your mouth shut.

00:19:10.340 You knew you weren't entering fantasy land.

00:19:13.340 It was a criminal life.

00:19:14.340 We knew what we were getting involved in.

00:19:16.340 And we have to shut our mouth.

00:19:17.340 That's the speech he gave me.

00:19:19.340 And the reason he gave me that speech, because after I had walked away,

00:19:23.340 we didn't speak for 10 years.

00:19:24.340 Who was mad at me?

00:19:25.340 Who was going to kill me?

00:19:26.340 My dad went along with the contract.

00:19:28.340 I heard everything from the government.

00:19:30.340 He finally said to me, when he realized I wasn't hurting anybody,

00:19:33.340 because everybody was saying I was putting everybody in jail.

00:19:35.340 And I go see him.

00:19:36.340 We were in the kitchen of our house.

00:19:38.340 Why did you do what you did?

00:19:40.340 I said, let me ask you a question, Dad.

00:19:42.340 I said, you're on your third parole violation.

00:19:44.340 We're sitting in this house.

00:19:46.340 I says, you have a daughter that died of an overdose of drugs.

00:19:51.340 You have a son that's a junkie.

00:19:53.340 A lot of trouble there. 0.94

00:19:55.340 You got my mother's a basket case and my other daughter's dying. 1.00

00:19:58.340 That's your legacy.

00:20:00.340 I said, I don't expect you to take revenge on anybody,

00:20:04.340 but after your third parole violation, why didn't you say I'm done,

00:20:07.340 pick up your family, move the hell out of town so you don't get violated again, 0.91

00:20:11.340 and worry about the family. 0.99

00:20:12.340 You don't have to be a rat at that point. 0.85

00:20:14.340 What are you betraying? 0.66

00:20:15.340 You're not calling on anybody.

00:20:16.340 You're not doing anything. 0.83

00:20:17.340 No, I'm a rat if I do that.

00:20:19.340 I don't understand that mentality.

00:20:22.340 I didn't get it.

00:20:24.340 So for me, what it meant, it meant what my dad said.

00:20:27.340 No matter what, this is the oath we took and we can't violate the oath.

00:20:31.340 I violated my oath.

00:20:33.340 I talk about the life.

00:20:34.340 I left the life.

00:20:36.340 So I betrayed my oath.

00:20:38.340 And you talked with agents.

00:20:40.340 I talked with agents.

00:20:42.340 That's cooperation.

00:20:43.340 Michael.

00:20:44.340 Yeah.

00:20:45.340 Listen, you're bringing this up now.

00:20:48.340 No, no, no.

00:20:49.340 I'm not going to accept that.

00:20:50.340 You don't have to accept it, but the reality of it is, here's my thinking.

00:20:55.340 Nobody has to agree with me, and everybody can call me whatever they want.

00:20:58.340 It could be whatever your thinking is.

00:20:59.340 The reality is that you sat with agents.

00:21:03.340 That's breaking or mortal.

00:21:05.340 I said I broke it.

00:21:06.340 I betrayed my oath.

00:21:07.340 Yeah, and you talked about your crimes and everything else.

00:21:09.340 That's cooperating and that's a wrap.

00:21:11.340 Just like everybody else who cooperated.

00:21:14.340 You gotta understand.

00:21:15.340 It doesn't have to mean that you took the stand.

00:21:17.340 Sammy, let me...

00:21:18.340 Once you break that oath, you broke it.

00:21:20.340 But I already agreed to that.

00:21:21.340 I betrayed my oath.

00:21:22.340 Well, your father had a mentality, and he's not the only one.

00:21:25.340 Okay, but let me...

00:21:26.340 There's hundreds of guys who did that.

00:21:28.340 Let me finish.

00:21:29.340 My thing was, I'll talk to the government, but I'm not going to put anybody in prison.

00:21:36.340 I'm not going to go to that extent.

00:21:38.340 It's not your call.

00:21:39.340 Huh?

00:21:40.340 It's not your call.

00:21:41.340 It was my call.

00:21:42.340 It's not your call.

00:21:43.340 Sam, I could have taken a stand three or four times.

00:21:44.340 Listen.

00:21:45.340 I could have taken a stand.

00:21:46.340 Listen.

00:21:47.340 No, no, no.

00:21:48.340 Maybe you could have.

00:21:49.340 Let's wait.

00:21:50.340 John Riggie.

00:21:51.340 No, no, no.

00:21:52.340 John Riggie.

00:21:53.340 I'll tell you why I went back on parole.

00:21:54.340 Why they violated me.

00:21:55.340 They brought me in to testify against John Riggie.

00:21:56.340 My friend brought me into Newark while I was on parole.

00:21:59.340 Picked me up.

00:22:00.340 Two agents brought me in.

00:22:01.340 Said we're putting you on the stand because he and I were partners in a business in New York.

00:22:05.340 And I refused.

00:22:06.340 I sat back.

00:22:07.340 Within ten days I was violated.

00:22:09.340 Because he was my friend.

00:22:10.340 I couldn't do it.

00:22:11.340 I don't know about that.

00:22:12.340 There's a lot of people.

00:22:13.340 I'm refused too.

00:22:14.340 Okay, but my point is...

00:22:15.340 But that don't mean I didn't cooperate.

00:22:16.340 Let me make the point.

00:22:17.340 No, no, no.

00:22:18.340 Let me make the point.

00:22:19.340 Let me make the point.

00:22:20.340 Then you can have the floor.

00:22:21.340 Yeah, got it.

00:22:22.340 The point is, when I got out of the life, it wasn't because I was mad at anybody.

00:22:27.340 Did people do me wrong?

00:22:28.340 Yes, they did.

00:22:29.340 But I understood that's part of the life.

00:22:31.340 This life is a treacherous life, no matter how you look at it.

00:22:35.340 I've seen backstabbing.

00:22:36.340 I've seen guys get killed for the wrong reason.

00:22:38.340 I've seen what happened with my father.

00:22:40.340 You want to know something?

00:22:41.340 When the government came after me, they had real reason, Patrick.

00:22:45.340 I can't say I was framed.

00:22:47.340 The Giuliani case, it was questionable.

00:22:50.340 I beat the case.

00:22:51.340 Okay, I get it.

00:22:52.340 You know, they're on one side, I'm on the other.

00:22:54.340 The gasoline case, I was guilty.

00:22:56.340 I was guilty.

00:22:57.340 When I took the plea on the gasoline case, there was no cooperation involved.

00:23:02.340 I got a 10-year prison sentence, $15 million restitution, no cooperation, didn't talk to anybody, nothing.

00:23:07.340 I did that because I beat them five times.

00:23:10.340 I had leverage over the government.

00:23:11.340 I made my deal because I was already planning to walk away from it.

00:23:14.340 All right.

00:23:15.340 I think, no, no, no.

00:23:16.340 Let me finish.

00:23:17.340 No, this is important.

00:23:19.340 I was in custody.

00:23:21.340 They're taking me down to Florida where I got indicted again on the whole gasoline case.

00:23:26.340 We agreed that the case was going to go concurrent with my federal sentence.

00:23:29.340 But you've got to plead first in the state because the feds won't go concurrent with the state, but the state will go concurrent with the government.

00:23:35.340 So I pleaded to the state.

00:23:37.340 They gave me nine years.

00:23:39.340 And on the way back, I'm on the plane with 10 agents who took me down here.

00:23:45.340 And I'm teasing them.

00:23:46.340 They're asking me, all right, Michael, now that it's over, when we were watching you here, was this what really happened?

00:23:51.340 They're asking me all of these things.

00:23:53.340 And they said to me, I said to them, you know why I took the plea?

00:23:56.340 I said, I was tired of beating you.

00:23:58.340 I beat you five times.

00:23:59.340 I said, let me give you one.

00:24:00.340 You got one.

00:24:01.340 You know, one agent looked at me.

00:24:02.340 I'll never forget.

00:24:03.340 I see his eyes right now.

00:24:04.340 And he said to me, Michael, not this time.

00:24:07.340 You became a superstar.

00:24:08.340 They were lining up to testify against you.

00:24:12.340 You were going down.

00:24:14.340 I never forgot that.

00:24:16.340 And you know what?

00:24:17.340 He was right.

00:24:18.340 He was right.

00:24:19.340 I don't follow what all of that meant.

00:24:21.340 It's a good speech.

00:24:22.340 It's a good speech.

00:24:23.340 No, it's not a, it's explaining.

00:24:24.340 Here's the thing.

00:24:25.340 When you go in, you said your speech.

00:24:27.340 It wasn't a speech, Sammy.

00:24:28.340 Whatever it is.

00:24:29.340 It wasn't a speech.

00:24:30.340 You were explaining to what happened.

00:24:31.340 You went in and you talked with the agents about your crimes when the guy cooperated against you.

00:24:36.340 And you cooperated against some Jewish guy. 0.63

00:24:38.340 What Jewish guy?

00:24:39.340 You told me you said you had him out. 1.00

00:24:41.340 I don't know who the fuck he is. 1.00

00:24:42.340 Sammy, I got subpoenaed to testify in that case. 1.00

00:24:45.340 And I went in and I said goodbye.

00:24:47.340 The guy didn't do one day's time.

00:24:49.340 Not one day.

00:24:50.340 He didn't do an hour in jail.

00:24:51.340 Talking about maybe this Navi Walters.

00:24:52.340 Whoever it was.

00:24:53.340 Well that's all it was.

00:24:54.340 And I'll get the facts if we have to go to that route.

00:24:56.340 You can get the facts.

00:24:57.340 I will.

00:24:58.340 It's public record.

00:24:59.340 I got a lot of agents I know too.

00:25:00.340 It's public record.

00:25:01.340 You can get it. 1.00

00:25:02.340 Fuck the public record. 1.00

00:25:03.340 I can get the un-public record. 1.00

00:25:04.340 But what happens is when you talk and you cooperate with the government.

00:25:08.340 Now they don't use you.

00:25:10.340 You're not going to take the stand.

00:25:12.340 You talked about your crimes.

00:25:14.340 You talked about other things.

00:25:16.340 And you cut the plea or whatever they do.

00:25:18.340 They gave you this plea.

00:25:19.340 It's a problem.

00:25:20.340 No.

00:25:21.340 You're wrong.

00:25:22.340 You're wrong.

00:25:23.340 I did not.

00:25:24.340 There was no cooperation attached to my plea agreement in 1985.

00:25:26.340 You can investigate high, low and everywhere in between.

00:25:29.340 You can look up documents.

00:25:30.340 You can go to the Freedom of Information Act.

00:25:31.340 Do whatever you want.

00:25:32.340 You can't get those documents with Freedom of Information.

00:25:34.340 Okay.

00:25:35.340 Well you got FBI connections.

00:25:36.340 Everybody knows that.

00:25:37.340 You got FBI connections.

00:25:38.340 There was no.

00:25:39.340 I'll get it.

00:25:40.340 There was no.

00:25:41.340 No, no.

00:25:42.340 Let me finish.

00:25:43.340 But the thing is when you talk.

00:25:44.340 You can't say that and then I'll let me finish.

00:25:45.340 No, no.

00:25:46.340 You let you talk in 10 minutes.

00:25:47.340 No, but there was.

00:25:48.340 You just made an allegation.

00:25:49.340 That's not true.

00:25:50.340 It is an allegation.

00:25:51.340 I'll make it true.

00:25:52.340 There was no cooperation attached to my plea agreement at all.

00:25:55.340 Maybe it's not cooperation.

00:25:56.340 I don't know what you wrote.

00:25:57.340 You met with the agents and you talked with the agents.

00:25:59.340 You just said it.

00:26:00.340 I met with the agent five years later.

00:26:01.340 No, you just said you were on a plane with agents and you were joking.

00:26:04.340 I beat you once. 1.00

00:26:05.340 I didn't go for that bullshit. 1.00

00:26:07.340 What are you talking? 1.00

00:26:08.340 What are you talking about?

00:26:09.340 You just said you were talking with agents.

00:26:11.340 I beat you, so now I'm going to give you one.

00:26:13.340 I was talking about my case.

00:26:15.340 I took a plea.

00:26:16.340 Yeah.

00:26:17.340 I was talking about my case.

00:26:18.340 They were saying, Michael, when we were following you here, was this what really happened?

00:26:21.340 What I understand is that when you talked with the agents, you talked about your crimes,

00:26:28.340 you talked about other things.

00:26:30.340 Now, what happens is they didn't use you.

00:26:33.340 They didn't use you.

00:26:34.340 They couldn't use me.

00:26:36.340 Sammy, Sammy.

00:26:37.340 I've been listening to you and I don't want to say it, but I think you want to say it,

00:26:41.340 but you haven't said it yet.

00:26:42.340 Is there anything you want to say to Michael in regards to cooperating?

00:26:46.340 What can I say?

00:26:47.340 He read it.

00:26:48.340 He cooperated.

00:26:49.340 He cooperated. 1.00

00:26:50.340 He cooperated with the fucking government. 1.00

00:26:51.340 He wants to get on his fucking high horse. 1.00

00:26:53.340 I didn't send somebody to prison. 1.00

00:26:55.340 He met with the fucking government and ratted. 1.00

00:26:57.340 You're a fucking rat. 1.00

00:26:58.340 I got you. 1.00

00:26:59.340 Do you want to talk about respect?

00:27:00.340 Do you want to talk like that? 1.00

00:27:01.340 I'll put your fucking finger at me. 1.00

00:27:02.340 Well, what are you going to do? 1.00

00:27:03.340 What am I going to do? 1.00

00:27:04.340 I'll break your fucking face. 1.00

00:27:05.340 That's what the fuck I'll do. 1.00

00:27:06.340 Sammy, Sammy. 1.00

00:27:07.340 Let me tell you. 1.00

00:27:08.340 This was easy to go to be fucking dead. 1.00

00:27:10.340 Well, really? 1.00

00:27:11.340 Yeah.

00:27:12.340 Sorry!

00:27:14.340 Sammy. 1.00

00:27:17.340 Why does the shit come to speak? 1.00

00:27:21.340 You 1.00

Valuetainment - December 03, 2021

Mafia States Of America - FIRST LOOK (AVAILABLE NOW)

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