Valuetainment - Mexico DEA Narc Reveals CIA’s Greatest Coverup

00:00:01.000 When I came on the case, Kiki Camarena had been kidnapped and tortured by the drug lords

00:00:07.220 because he had caused him great losses in seizing 10,000 tons of marijuana in Chihuahua, Mexico.

00:00:14.720 At the very beginning, I started to think, something's wrong here.

00:00:18.540 In 89, they assign you to go investigate what really happened with Kiki Camarena,

00:00:23.320 and those that assign you was the DEA.

00:00:25.540 Why was Kiki blindfolded? And why was he tape-recorded?

00:00:31.360 Hector, he says, you don't know what you've gotten yourself into. We killed Kiki Camarena.

00:00:36.280 I said, what do you mean, we?

00:00:37.940 You don't see this cartel model slowing down for decades. 0.83

00:00:41.300 The women were raped. There were three babies left in baby chairs,

00:00:45.220 and they lit fire to the cars and burned those babies to death.

00:00:49.260 Why were you not afraid of them?

00:00:50.500 I had a reputation of a badass.

00:00:53.100 When the cartel wants to kill somebody, they machine gun him down wherever he's at.

00:00:57.400 You're saying the Mexican government is supporting several of these cartels.

00:01:01.060 They have the back end of the government.

00:01:02.780 Totally. The CIA is inundating our inner cities with cocaine.

00:01:08.140 So who is the person that actually killed Kiki?

00:01:11.220 Did you ever get a chance to meet him face to face?

00:01:13.560 No, but I would love to.

00:01:14.780 You would love to meet him?

00:01:15.700 I probably gave him one beating for Kiki Camarena. 0.97

00:01:23.100 Look, if you've been following Vitamin for a while, you know we've had a lot of different kinds of guests,

00:01:27.080 whether it's mobsters from Mob Family, Sammy, a lot of folks from that end.

00:01:31.260 We've had Steve Murphy and Javier Pena, who the documentary, the series Narcos on Netflix.

00:01:37.820 And we've talked about a lot of different topics.

00:01:39.940 Today, my guest is Hector Bereles, who his recent series on Amazon, The Last Narc,

00:01:46.380 as well as a book that just came out, September 15th, a memoir by the DEA's Most Notorious Agent book.

00:01:52.660 I want to kind of give him a little bit of background for you to know who we're going to be listening to today.

00:01:57.720 He was the former supervisor, DEA supervisor and special agent with 30 years extensive experience

00:02:03.060 in counterterrorism and narcotics enforcement.

00:02:05.720 He is recognized as one of the most highest decorated drug enforcement agent in the history of the Bureau.

00:02:10.840 He received the Federal Bar Association Medal of Valor, the Federal Executive Board Chairman Special Award,

00:02:16.860 and is credited for his handling and solving of the kidnap, torture, and murder of undercover DEA agent Enrique Kiki Camarena

00:02:25.480 by drug traffickers in Guadalajara, Mexico, in which Hector received the prestigious DEA Administrator's Award.

00:02:32.620 Having said that, Hector, thank you so much for being a guest on Valuetainment.

00:02:37.200 Thank you for having me, sir. It's a pleasure.

00:02:39.620 I just want to make sure you are not currently in Guadalajara, right?

00:02:43.580 Because I want to make sure you're safe.

00:02:46.100 No, sir. Thank God I'm not there.

00:02:47.900 Yes. Okay. So we just want to make sure this interview starts and finishes on time

00:02:52.860 and we're able to go through all the questions.

00:02:54.520 So, you know, I was following the story of the last narc and I was seeing what's going on with Amazon.

00:03:00.060 And there almost seemed to be a lot of controversy behind this book that you were launching

00:03:04.900 where there were a lot of organizations that almost didn't want you to write this book.

00:03:08.940 There were a lot of organizations that didn't want the last narc to be on TV.

00:03:12.880 They didn't want people to see it.

00:03:14.060 And some of them were government and there was some lawsuits going on.

00:03:17.580 Amazon, you know, they didn't want people to know about this.

00:03:20.620 So can you kind of give us the challenges you guys face before getting the story to be released to the public?

00:03:26.400 Well, quite frankly, the CIA, of course, were highly opposed to the story that I'm putting out,

00:03:34.760 which is the truth regarding Camarena's death.

00:03:37.040 And, of course, the DEA is also not very happy with the fact that after 30 years,

00:03:43.380 their whole narration, their fake story basically has been exposed by me

00:03:49.600 because Kiki Camarena was basically killed on orders of our own government.

00:03:56.940 So, okay, so because of that, CIA, the fact that the orders were given by our own government

00:04:04.820 to kill Kiki Camarena, you're saying people still till today don't want that story to be told,

00:04:10.280 even though that was 30 plus years ago?

00:04:12.400 That is totally correct.

00:04:13.880 Kiki Camarena was ordered kidnapped to be interrogated because he had unknowingly stumbled into a CIA,

00:04:21.840 NSC covert gun running operation that was supplying weapons secretly to the Nicaraguan Contras.

00:04:29.960 Got it.

00:04:30.780 And so, you know how sometimes, like I'm from Iran and there was a movie that came out about Iran

00:04:36.740 called Argo, which Ben Affleck was in it.

00:04:40.540 I don't know if you had a chance to see it or not.

00:04:42.120 It was a story about what happened in the revolution in Iran in 79,

00:04:47.160 and they didn't want to tell the story about how this organization came out with a fake movie

00:04:50.660 and they were able to go to Iran and get a lot of the U.S. folks that were, you know,

00:04:55.260 held hostage over there, and he was able to release them to a fake movie that they were making.

00:04:59.160 But the story was told 30 years later.

00:05:02.260 Why is it such a challenge that they don't want this story to be told?

00:05:05.260 Because it's not like it's the current president or the prior president.

00:05:08.360 What's their biggest fear if we find out the truth about what happened with Kiki?

00:05:12.120 Well, currently, with the FBI being exposed to be basically a corrupt agency,

00:05:19.280 the CIA doesn't want to be accused of being the same thing.

00:05:22.680 They don't want it to be exposed to this date that they were involved in ordering Camarena,

00:05:30.540 picked up, interrogated, and subsequently tortured.

00:05:35.460 And, of course, the DEA, who was at that juncture working in complicity with the CIA,

00:05:44.420 they were working in partnership.

00:05:46.320 They also did not want it exposed that Camarena basically was sort of kidnapped and interrogated by the CIA.

00:05:56.960 Why, though?

00:06:01.260 Why?

00:06:01.920 Because it shows complicity on their part.

00:06:04.940 Here, the DEA is supposed to be fighting the war on drugs,

00:06:08.240 and the CIA is the major cartel bringing in like 80% of the cocaine in the 80s.

00:06:15.520 So, here we had working for an administration that was okay with funding an unauthorized war in Nicaragua with drug monies.

00:06:26.320 The CIA, notoriously, because they don't work under constitutional law, no constitutional parameters,

00:06:34.800 they're not a law enforcement agency, notoriously, they have basically aligned themselves with criminal cartels,

00:06:42.920 paramilitary groups from other countries, and also intelligence agents from other countries

00:06:48.320 to do whatever it takes, they say, in preserving the national security of the United States.

00:06:54.500 So, Hector, now, for some people that haven't read the book or they haven't seen the series on Amazon,

00:07:00.240 is the lawsuit still pending or that's been scored away and Amazon is now fine and secured with the show continuing to show on Amazon?

00:07:08.140 I understand that it got scored away and there's no pending litigation as far as I know.

00:07:13.120 Got it. Okay. And did you know who wasn't wanting it to go out?

00:07:17.000 Was it directly the CIA that was trying to prevent that from happening?

00:07:20.320 Well, I understand that I don't want to get into that because basically there's no evidence that the CIA

00:07:27.580 was the one that was pressuring or whatever, threatening Amazon.

00:07:33.680 So, I can't say that I know for sure, but I suspect it was the CIA.

00:07:37.560 I'm only saying that is because if that's the case, I mean, it's best for the audience to go see it

00:07:43.260 in case, God forbid, Amazon takes it down and they won't be able to show it.

00:07:47.500 You know, it creates a certain level of urgency for the audience to see what's really in that show.

00:07:53.060 But let's go back and talk a little bit about your career.

00:07:56.540 I mean, you have a Hall of Fame type of a career, you know, and if you were an athlete,

00:08:00.740 you'd be in a Hall of Fame for what the work you've done.

00:08:03.020 You know, they put you on a lot of different lists.

00:08:04.620 Your name is constantly mentioned by a lot of different people.

00:08:08.220 But why don't you walk us back and, you know, share with us a little bit about some of the

00:08:13.140 things you worked on as a DA agent and how did the Kiki Camarena project, you know, come to you?

00:08:18.960 Who made the phone call?

00:08:19.820 How did that happen?

00:08:20.560 How did you get that assignment?

00:08:22.940 Well, I was assigned to work in Mexico and I was sent to the hottest, most dangerous area, 0.92

00:08:30.520 which was the Sinaloa area.

00:08:33.320 Back then, it was a hotbed of violence and drug trafficking.

00:08:37.340 And while there, I was involved in the longest shootout in the history of the DEA.

00:08:44.920 I was involved in a shootout that lasted over two hours.

00:08:50.120 During the shootout, we killed numerous Mexican-Colombian drug traffickers.

00:08:55.720 And also, we had five very seriously wounded MFJP agents.

00:09:03.240 We were able to fight the aggression for, like I said, two hours.

00:09:07.340 I was able to get the wounded out.

00:09:10.100 And because of that, I was basically brought back to Washington and issued the U.S. Attorney General's Award for heroism.

00:09:19.380 So, that kind of put the spot on me with the agency.

00:09:23.360 At the time that that happened, the Camarena investigation had been going on for about four years.

00:09:32.180 They needed somebody that could aggressively pursue the perpetrators and somebody that could basically recruit eyewitnesses.

00:09:42.600 So, they brought me out of Mexico after that horrendous gun battle and they put me in charge of the Enrique Camarena case.

00:09:50.440 What year was that?

00:09:51.240 That was in 1989.

00:09:54.620 That was in 1989 when you were put on the case.

00:09:57.560 So, the two-hour shootout in Sinaloa was what?

00:10:00.640 84, 85?

00:10:02.140 88.

00:10:03.420 88.

00:10:04.040 So, you got the award in 88 and Reagan was president at the time.

00:10:08.260 Yes, I believe he was.

00:10:09.760 Yes.

00:10:10.560 Reagan was president at the time.

00:10:11.980 So, you're in Sinaloa.

00:10:13.280 By the way, where are you from yourself originally?

00:10:16.480 I'm originally from Tucson, Arizona.

00:10:19.220 You're from Tucson, Arizona.

00:10:20.480 And your family, where's your family lineage from?

00:10:23.600 Well, I don't want to put out where my family is because I still have to protect them.

00:10:26.960 But they're in Arizona.

00:10:28.420 But meaning, are you also Mexican yourself?

00:10:31.540 Well, I'm Mexican heritage, but I was born in the United States.

00:10:36.040 Okay.

00:10:36.260 My family has been here since the 1700s.

00:10:39.140 Got it.

00:10:39.580 Okay.

00:10:40.080 Got it.

00:10:40.500 Fair enough.

00:10:41.240 I only asked to know that, you know, if that was a, like when I was in the military and I was in the army, I speak five languages.

00:10:48.580 They wanted to send me to Tikrit to go to Iraq because I spoke Farsi and I spoke all these other languages and it was a leverage for me to, for them to leverage somebody like me to go.

00:10:59.300 I'm wondering if the DEA saw you as being the best person to go out there because you can also connect with the community.

00:11:07.380 Well, that was one of the reasons I could connect with the community.

00:11:10.400 I knew the culture.

00:11:11.800 I speak Spanish like a native Mexican.

00:11:13.940 I could travel to Colombia, Bolivia, all over Central and South America working undercover, which I did.

00:11:22.120 And I could blend easily, as you stated, because I speak Spanish fluently.

00:11:27.740 When I was undercover in Colombia, I would identify myself as a Mexican citizen.

00:11:33.120 I carried the identification sequedrals of a Mexican individual.

00:11:38.760 And I could easily blend in and out of those countries and pose as a Mexican.

00:11:44.020 And of course, while working undercover here in the United States, I spoke Spanish or speak Spanish so well that whenever the traffickers were accused me of possibly being an undercover DEA agent or an ARC, I would say, listen, guy, would you help me get some green papers and maybe I can apply and get a job with those guys.

00:12:02.840 So they really, they really took to me and trusted me a lot.

00:12:07.380 I can see that.

00:12:08.420 So when you were in Colombia as an undercover, what year was that?

00:12:12.980 Well, I was there numerous times, 82, also in the late 70s.

00:12:19.820 I was in and out of Colombia.

00:12:21.300 I was there, I don't know, five or six times.

00:12:23.640 So was it during the era of Pablo or no?

00:12:27.280 Absolutely.

00:12:27.980 During the era of Pablo, I was under, I never went undercover into Pablo himself, but I did penetrate the Ochoa organization out of Medellin, Colombia.

00:12:37.620 So yeah, I was in and out of Colombia.

00:12:40.560 Did you ever do anything with Steve Murphy and Javier Pena or no?

00:12:44.400 No, because when I would go into Colombia, I would never meet the DEA agent station there.

00:12:49.880 I stayed in hotels.

00:12:51.380 I only communicated with the agents there via telephone.

00:12:55.760 I was ordered never to go to the embassy so that in case I was being followed, my undercover situation wouldn't be blown.

00:13:04.480 So no, I never met him, even though I was in and out of Colombia when they were there.

00:13:09.260 Got it.

00:13:09.840 So 88, you're on that two-hour shootout, one of the longest ever, if not the longest ever.

00:13:14.480 You get an award for it.

00:13:15.500 You come back in 89, they assign you to go investigate what really happened with Kiki Camarena.

00:13:21.340 Who assigned you and what is the assignment?

00:13:24.900 Meaning, are they saying, hey, Hector, we want you to find out what really happened to Kiki and those that assigned you was the DEA.

00:13:31.120 So how was that process of you getting that assignment?

00:13:33.600 It was a frustration, I think, because they had a specialized team that came out of New York that were assigned here to Los Angeles to investigate the Camarena murder case.

00:13:46.580 These folks, they don't speak Spanish.

00:13:48.880 For the most part, they were used to working the Italian mob.

00:13:52.760 They were an elite group, but they did not understand the culture of Mexico.

00:14:00.520 They didn't understand the corruption and how deep it went.

00:14:05.120 As a matter of fact, one time, they brought me in from Mexico to ask me about the corruption. 0.70

00:14:11.140 This is the Leyenda team that was investigating the case before me.

00:14:15.060 And they asked me about the traffickers having, basically carrying federal agent credentials and badges.

00:14:22.180 And I said, no, they just don't carry the credentials and the badges.

00:14:25.560 They hold the positions.

00:14:27.380 And they go, what are you talking about?

00:14:29.380 What I'm talking about is that they not only carry the credentials and the badges, they actually are assigned 30 federal agents under their command.

00:14:38.900 And I went on to give him an example.

00:14:41.040 It would be like John Gotti being issued FBI credentials, but not just the credentials.

00:14:47.520 He would also be a supervisor in the FBI.

00:14:52.120 And they would assign FBI agents under Gotti's command.

00:14:57.360 They said, wow, is it that bad, Hector?

00:15:00.780 And I said, yes, it is that bad in Mexico.

00:15:04.040 These council members actually hold government positions in all aspects of law enforcement in Mexico.

00:15:11.020 And that's because of the corruption back then in the government?

00:15:15.480 Or is that that's because, you know, that was the model or because corruption, they're being bought out?

00:15:21.760 It was corruption that had basically been, you know, they took control of everything because of corruption.

00:15:28.000 And it wasn't just back then.

00:15:31.480 It continues to be even, that situation continues to exist today.

00:15:35.940 And it's even worse today.

00:15:38.140 It's even worse today than the 80s.

00:15:41.000 Mexico, in the 80s, it was, yeah, it was that corrupt.

00:15:46.900 But it's worse today.

00:15:48.640 And it's worse today.

00:15:51.160 Interesting.

00:15:52.460 So you get the assignment.

00:15:54.660 And when you get the assignment throughout the process, I'm assuming you kind of knew what was going on with Kiki.

00:15:59.040 Were you yourself curious where you really wanted to take the job and go and investigate more for yourself?

00:16:03.420 Yes.

00:16:05.380 One of the main reasons, too, that I was placed in charge of the investigation is because I had been a homicide detective before I came into the DEA.

00:16:14.120 So they knew that I had homicide experience.

00:16:16.860 When I came into the case, I was told that Camarena had been kidnapped and tortured by the drug lords because he had caused them great losses in seizing 10,000 tons of marijuana at the Buffalo ranch growing area in Chihuahua, Mexico.

00:16:38.840 So that's what I was told and believed until I started looking into the case and I called the agent that had been in charge of the Buffalo Chihuahua seizures and asked him what Kiki's involvement was.

00:16:54.720 And he told me to my surprise, he said, Hector, Kiki Camarena had nothing to do with a seizure of the 10,000 tons of marijuana at Buffalo.

00:17:05.920 I said, are you sure?

00:17:07.300 I am being told here that that was the main motive.

00:17:10.520 And he said, Hector, that's a false narrative.

00:17:12.920 They're not telling you the truth.

00:17:14.800 Kiki did not participate in the raids.

00:17:17.820 I know, I ran the raids.

00:17:20.580 So at the very beginning, I started to think something's wrong here.

00:17:24.740 Something doesn't smell right.

00:17:27.060 Then I am able to recruit, believe it or not, a CIA operative working in Mexico.

00:17:34.840 I had witnesses that were telling me that there was this white guy, Anglo, that was working within the Mexican Directorate of Federal Security, that DFS.

00:17:48.980 They called him, his nickname was Torre Blanca because it means White Tower.

00:17:54.500 And they called him White Tower because he was a very tall Anglo guy that was almost six, seven feet tall.

00:18:05.220 And I wondered, what is this guy doing working with a DFS in Mexico?

00:18:11.160 That's incredible.

00:18:13.240 I knew that the DFS had had something to do with Kiki's kidnapping.

00:18:17.860 So I reached out to this guy.

00:18:20.300 He had to have known what was going on during the time that Camarena was picked up.

00:18:28.420 I called him and I told him, I said, listen, I am in charge of the Camarena case.

00:18:33.860 And I know you're working with the DFS.

00:18:36.220 And as you and I know, the DFS was involved in the kidnapping of Camarena.

00:18:40.260 And I need you to come talk to me.

00:18:42.520 And he said, I'm not going to talk to you.

00:18:44.860 He said, Hector, you don't even know what you're involved in.

00:18:47.460 He said, leave me alone. 1.00

00:18:48.500 And I said, listen, if you don't cooperate with me, I'm going to kidnap your white ass and I'll bring you up here. 1.00

00:18:56.060 And you know that I'm serious and you know that I'll do it because I've already kidnapped one guy out of Mexico, referring to Dr. Machine. 1.00

00:19:02.640 And I said, I'll kidnap your white ass. 1.00

00:19:05.200 So he said, OK, OK. 1.00

00:19:06.720 He said, I'll meet with you.

00:19:09.020 He said, you know, I can't go down there.

00:19:10.780 Because by then I had a warrant for my arrest for kidnapping Dr. Machine, who had injected drugs into Camarena.

00:19:16.040 So he said, OK, he said, what are we going to do?

00:19:19.860 I said, I want to send some of my agents to meet with you in Guadalajara.

00:19:23.040 And I want you to talk to them.

00:19:25.800 But I really need you to come to the United States and talk to me.

00:19:30.060 So basically, I sent four agents down there.

00:19:33.880 They set up a meeting at a hotel room in Guadalajara.

00:19:37.180 An agent from Mexico City by the name of Dale Stinson shows up.

00:19:40.920 And he says he's been told to participate in the interview.

00:19:45.440 My agents called me.

00:19:46.300 They said, hey, something strange has happened.

00:19:47.880 He said, another agent from Mexico City just arrived by the name of Dale Stinson,

00:19:51.720 who said he's been ordered to partake in the interview with Harrison.

00:19:55.460 I said, I don't have a problem.

00:19:57.460 Go ahead and let him participate.

00:19:59.740 Well, this DA agent named Dale Stinson requested to speak with Larry Harrison alone,

00:20:08.120 basically away from being absorbed by my agents.

00:20:14.800 He met with Larry in the hotel room alone.

00:20:17.780 Three minutes later, Larry Harrison, the CIA guy, comes out and says,

00:20:22.520 hey, listen, I want nothing to do with you guys.

00:20:24.200 I don't want to cooperate and left, upset.

00:20:28.860 My agents then asked Dale Stinson, what happened?

00:20:33.340 And he said, well, I don't know.

00:20:34.880 I guess the guy's got cold feet.

00:20:36.160 He doesn't want to cooperate after all.

00:20:37.680 And that was it.

00:20:38.920 They came back empty-handed.

00:20:41.320 It took me a year to find this guy again because he went and hid.

00:20:45.380 I finally found him hiding in the Oaxaca Mountains of Mexico.

00:20:49.300 I got him on the phone again.

00:20:50.940 And I said, Larry, you need to come talk to me.

00:20:53.680 There's no place you can run or hide.

00:20:55.940 You see, I will always find you.

00:20:57.820 You better come over here and cooperate with me.

00:21:00.640 He said, okay, I'll agree to meet with you, but only in the United States.

00:21:05.740 And nobody must know that I'm coming.

00:21:09.000 We flew him to Los Angeles.

00:21:10.480 I met with him, and during my initial interview, he told me, he said, Hector, he says, you don't

00:21:17.220 know what you've gotten yourself into.

00:21:19.220 We killed Kiki Camarena.

00:21:21.900 I said, what do you mean we?

00:21:24.320 He says, we both work with the same government.

00:21:26.780 I'm a CIA operative, he said, and Camarena was ordered kidnapped and to be interrogated by my

00:21:38.840 agency, the CIA and NSC.

00:21:41.760 I almost fell out of my chair.

00:21:46.040 I said, what are you telling me?

00:21:48.200 He says, yes.

00:21:49.820 He said, we use the cartels to assist us in picking and kidnapping him and interrogating

00:21:57.220 him.

00:21:57.500 I did not participate myself, but he said, my handler did.

00:22:04.220 And I was shocked.

00:22:08.200 I gathered there was something very sinister from the very beginning of the investigation

00:22:13.780 because I had worked in Mexico, and the drug dealers, they don't take time to kidnap a

00:22:20.260 guy, blindfold him, interrogate him, make copies of the interrogation.

00:22:25.060 When the cartel wants to kill somebody, they machine gun him down wherever he's at. 0.99

00:22:29.500 They'll walk into an office, shoot somebody in an office, kill somebody in his car, kill 0.98

00:22:35.000 somebody in front of somebody in his house. 0.92

00:22:37.600 But this was a very sinister, very, very, very, very, very strange investigation.

00:22:46.900 Why was Kiki blindfolded?

00:22:49.680 And why was he tape recorded?

00:22:51.560 And Harrison gave me the answer because they wanted to know what he knew.

00:22:59.120 What had happened, as I stated before, Camarena unknowingly, okay, found out that tons of

00:23:07.840 cocaine were being flown into Caro Quintero's ranch in Veracruz.

00:23:11.500 So he started an investigation into that ranch in Veracruz.

00:23:16.020 What Camarena did not know was that that ranch was being used by the NSC and the CIA to train

00:23:26.600 Contras, and they were using that as a transshipment location to ship weapons from there directly

00:23:34.720 to Ilipango, where they were later issued to the Contra Freedom Fighters.

00:23:39.680 To contact Freedom Fighters.

00:23:41.700 Okay, let me go back to one thing you were telling the story about. 0.99

00:23:44.180 You said, if you don't tell me, Larry, I'm going to come and kidnap your ass because 0.99

00:23:49.240 you know I have a reputation of doing that. 0.99

00:23:51.140 So this is 30-something years ago, 81, say 31 years ago, 30 years ago.

00:23:56.380 What kind of a reputation did you have yourself?

00:23:58.900 Were you somebody they feared?

00:24:00.520 Were you cold?

00:24:01.340 Who were you with your reputation you had built in a marketplace in your world?

00:24:05.640 In my world, I was chasing the big elephants, the big cartel guys in Mexico.

00:24:12.520 I got in numerous shootouts with him.

00:24:15.080 The shootout at the two-hour shootout that we referred to earlier, that was just one of

00:24:20.540 the shootouts that I had been involved in in Mexico.

00:24:22.700 They knew that I was hands-on down there chasing him.

00:24:28.100 I had a reputation of a badass.

00:24:31.160 I mean, they knew that I was, I would go toe-to-toe with him.

00:24:36.780 They knew that I was not afraid of him, that I was constantly chasing him.

00:24:41.740 Why were you not afraid of him?

00:24:43.140 I was afraid of him, but I had a job to do.

00:24:48.740 And I actually, I guess I was an adrenaline junkie.

00:24:52.980 I like to be in dangerous situations, you know, like these fighter pilots.

00:24:58.580 I mean, you get the adrenaline going and you kind of get addicted to it.

00:25:02.140 And I guess I was an adrenaline addict.

00:25:03.900 I don't know.

00:25:05.440 Makes sense.

00:25:06.400 I mean, it's a very common thing with folks in your world that they get addicted to it

00:25:11.480 once they get in, you realize very quickly if it's something for you or not, or if you

00:25:14.720 get addicted, you're in, you may not be able to stop doing it.

00:25:17.240 And it's tough to step away from it.

00:25:18.920 So, so later on, you're doing this.

00:25:21.120 You talk to Larry.

00:25:21.920 He says, we, you said, what do you mean?

00:25:23.940 We, we, as in we're all on it together.

00:25:26.540 Why did they blindfold him?

00:25:27.900 Because he had some information.

00:25:29.000 So as you're going about telling your story, what happens next?

00:25:32.880 Well, Larry explains to me that the reason they blindfolded him was because the people

00:25:38.460 that wanted him interrogated basically were, were Americans and there was going to be

00:25:47.360 at least one American that was going to be interrogating Kiki.

00:25:52.100 The plan was not to kill him.

00:25:54.400 The plan was to kidnap him, bring him to a place, interrogate him, waterboard him, not 0.93

00:26:03.000 physically, you know, kick him, beat him, which they did.

00:26:06.000 He was supposed to be waterboarded by a waterboarding expert.

00:26:12.080 The wrong guy, a CIA operative was supposed to do the interrogating of Camarena and the

00:26:18.940 waterboarding.

00:26:20.320 And I later identified who this CIA operative was.

00:26:25.120 So you later identified who the CIA operative was.

00:26:28.220 Is this the person you're talking to or the person that was supposed to waterboard him?

00:26:31.040 No, the person that was supposed to waterboard him, another major CIA operative, a well-known

00:26:37.940 CIA operative, the CIA operative that kidnapped or basically tracked down Che Guevara in South

00:26:44.320 America and Bolivia and killed him and cut his hands off. 0.97

00:26:48.320 The same CIA operative that was involved in putting a bomb on a plane that was leaving Venezuela

00:26:55.500 with the Cuban fencing team, blew up in the air.

00:26:59.480 The same Cuban that had been assigned to run operations in Vietnam, operations interrogating 0.94

00:27:08.280 Viet Cong. 0.75

00:27:09.780 He was a major supervisor in Operation Phoenix in Vietnam.

00:27:13.600 A very well, well-known CIA operative and a very personal friend of President George W.

00:27:21.040 Bush.

00:27:21.240 Is this a name you've revealed in the book or no?

00:27:26.820 Is his name revealed in the book?

00:27:28.200 Yes, it is.

00:27:29.540 What's his name?

00:27:31.660 Ismael Feliz Rodriguez.

00:27:34.860 Ismael?

00:27:36.320 Yes, Ismael Feliz Rodriguez, a.k.a.

00:27:40.680 Max Gomez.

00:27:41.900 It took me a long time to identify this guy by true name because the witnesses knew him

00:27:48.220 only as Max Gomez.

00:27:51.400 Did you ever get a chance to meet him face to face?

00:27:54.600 No, but I would love to.

00:27:57.780 You would love to meet him?

00:28:00.720 Yes.

00:28:02.120 Let's just say you did.

00:28:02.960 What would you do to him?

00:28:05.180 Well, if I would have made him when I was with DEA, I would have put him in handcuffs.

00:28:08.420 And if I was to meet him now, I'd probably give him one beating for Kiki Camarena.

00:28:16.880 Did you have a relationship with Kiki?

00:28:19.260 Yes, I did.

00:28:20.860 How was he as an individual?

00:28:22.300 I mean, I've interviewed others that knew him personally as well from that era.

00:28:26.160 But how was your experience with Kiki?

00:28:28.020 Well, he wasn't a personal friend of mine, but he had a bad reputation, too.

00:28:33.060 I mean, a reputation of being a badass like I did.

00:28:36.340 He was a no-sense guy.

00:28:39.060 He was a very serious guy.

00:28:40.880 He had a very strong, penetrating look about him.

00:28:44.860 He was a pretty tough character and a great agent.

00:28:51.420 Great agent.

00:28:52.280 What makes a great agent in your world?

00:28:54.120 In my world, a great agent is an undercover agent, a guy that goes after them, a guy that mixes it up with him, a guy that is not a disc joppy, a guy that, you know, doesn't want to run around in a soft white shirt with a tie and, you know, wearing the old spice cologne and the college graduation ring. 0.73

00:29:19.900 He was like me.

00:29:21.120 He was a gunslinger like I was.

00:29:24.120 And I respected him a lot for that.

00:29:26.100 Got it.

00:29:26.800 So afterwards, once you found that out, were you being told, hey, listen, Hector, just kind of back off a little bit more.

00:29:35.220 This is enough.

00:29:35.960 You've come enough.

00:29:37.440 You don't need to say anything anymore.

00:29:38.840 Just stay quiet.

00:29:39.660 Move on with your life.

00:29:40.580 Go about your business.

00:29:41.900 Were you getting anybody that was messaging you to not pursue it anymore and just kind of back off?

00:29:47.140 And not originally.

00:29:49.260 They wanted me to go after and convict the people that were involved in killing not only Camarena.

00:29:55.480 They killed four Jehovah Witnesses, the same cartel, which, of course, was the Guadalajara cartel. 0.90

00:30:02.080 They had also killed two Americans at a restaurant owned by Rafael Caro Quintero, John Walker, and Alberto Radalete.

00:30:09.060 And I personally wanted to go after these guys because, you know, they not only just killed the Americans, the women were raped viciously in front of their husbands, the Jehovah Witnesses women were. 1.00

00:30:27.660 The two Americans that were killed at the restaurant that I mentioned, John Walker and Albert Radalete, not only were they just killed, they were dismembered.

00:30:36.520 I mean, they were decapitated, they were all cut up.

00:30:39.160 And before they were actually killed, they bone tingled them to investigate them. 0.96

00:30:43.600 These are very, very vicious criminals. 0.99

00:30:47.120 And I wanted to exert some revenge, especially against the perpetrators that raped the women. 1.00

00:30:57.100 You know, they raped them. 0.99

00:30:59.160 And then after that, they went on rope between their legs, torturing them. 1.00

00:31:02.900 What vicious animals. 0.85

00:31:04.300 So I wanted to go after them. 0.90

00:31:05.680 And unfortunately, one of those guys, one of those suspects that was involved in raping the Jehovah Witnesses is about to be released here in a couple of weeks, Jose Bernabe Ramirez.

00:31:18.140 So I wanted vengeance and I wanted to arrest these guys.

00:31:23.740 Did you ever get your vengeance?

00:31:24.940 I got some vengeance.

00:31:26.400 I got some vengeance.

00:31:27.780 I mean, I got in shootout with them and I took some of their lives.

00:31:32.360 They also shot up some of my guys and they killed my friend Camarena.

00:31:36.700 But hey, it was a war.

00:31:38.400 It was war.

00:31:39.140 And we were going at it at each other.

00:31:41.080 So going back at it, when you look at these four major cartels, you have the Guadalajara cartel, which is by the name you just mentioned, Rafael Caro Quintero, who is in a lot of songs, you know, a lot of songs that they name him and they glorify him.

00:31:57.780 Then you have the Tijuana cartel with the Enedina, Ariano Feliz. 0.98

00:32:01.720 Then you have the Sinaloa cartel, which is El Chapo.

00:32:03.960 And you have the Juarez cartel, which is Rafael Aguilar, Guardo, I believe.

00:32:08.780 Which one of those four is known as the most vicious, feared cartel?

00:32:14.880 Right now, I would say it's the Sinaloa cartel.

00:32:20.600 The Sinaloa cartel is in war with the Chapitos, which is the Chapo Guzman's sons.

00:32:29.840 They're in war with each other right now.

00:32:31.840 The Sinaloa cartel is very much protected right now by the current administration.

00:32:36.700 The Chapitos and the Nueva Caneracion, which is another drug cartel, are being supported by the PRI guys, the guys that formerly basically had the presidency under Enrique Peña Nieto.

00:32:52.320 See, in Mexico, the cartels are powerful and do things with impunity because they have government protections.

00:33:00.000 If they were not protected by the government or had not been protected by the government back in 1985, they wouldn't have dared to pick up Camarena.

00:33:09.460 But because they had the DFS working with them, they had the Mexican federal police working with them, they had the Jalisco State Police with them.

00:33:18.260 This is what gave them the power. 0.97

00:33:20.160 And to this day, they have that kind of support by the corrupt, inept Mexican government. 0.96

00:33:28.840 At that time, so you say today is Sinaloa cartel. 0.84

00:33:32.360 Who was the strongest at that time?

00:33:33.620 Was it Guadalajara by Rafa?

00:33:36.040 Well, back at the time that Kiki was picked up in 85, it was the Guadalajara cartel.

00:33:42.200 And by the way, they were the only cartel at the time.

00:33:46.800 We dismantled that cartel by arresting their Jefe de Jefes, their leader, Ernesto Fonseca Carrillo, Pacaro Quintero, Miguel Ángel Feliz Gallardo.

00:33:57.780 So we arrested all those guys.

00:33:59.840 So after we destroyed the Guadalajara cartel, the other little cartel started springing up.

00:34:06.740 Felix Gallardo, when we arrested him, gave his part of the cartel to Felix Arellano brothers out of Tijuana, the Felix Arellano brothers, Ramon and Jorge and those guys.

00:34:19.440 El Chapo Guzman and Guadalajara, they formed their own cartel.

00:34:24.640 And, of course, they broke off with the Guadalajara cartel, started their own cartel, and they started being supplied their cocaine by the Cali cartel.

00:34:35.740 Now, the Guadalajara cartel had been receiving their cocaine from Pablo Escobar out of the Medellin cartel.

00:34:43.140 Got it. Got it. So when you're saying support, you're saying the Mexican government is supporting El Chapo San or several of these cartels.

00:34:53.940 They have the back end of the government.

00:34:56.380 Totally.

00:34:56.780 Okay. So when Rafael Caro Quintero went to jail, I think, I don't know the exact time he did, 26 years, but he went and he did some time.

00:35:06.000 And at the time, did you ever get a chance to meet him and be face-to-face with him or no? You never had a chance to meet Rafael?

00:35:12.740 No, I never met him personally.

00:35:14.960 I was very much involved in his arrest, even though I wasn't there.

00:35:20.500 Yeah. So based on him, how was he at that time? Because, you know, he was very charming, very charismatic, very, you know, almost kids grew up looking up to this guy with the energy that he had.

00:35:34.480 How powerful was he at that time in the middle, in the mid-80s?

00:35:38.700 Okay. Before he was 30 years old, he was not a millionaire. He was already a billionaire. And I know because I found his money.

00:35:47.240 Here is a guy, 28, 29 years old, has access to jets. He bought his own dear jet in Tucson, Arizona.

00:35:57.820 He was very powerful, very, very powerful, but he was very, very uneducated and not, not very smart.

00:36:06.960 Okay. I'll say that about him.

00:36:09.360 He wasn't very smart, but he was feared.

00:36:11.660 He was absolutely, he was, he was feared.

00:36:14.220 At one time, he was given as a gift, a real, a real nice, I heard 38 caliber pistol.

00:36:24.780 And to try it out, he just shot somebody in a bar just to try it out, killed a person.

00:36:30.240 That's how vicious he was.

00:36:32.860 Got it. And, and when you think about when the story comes out with Kiki, you hear two different names.

00:36:37.980 Both of them are co-founders of the, of the Guadalajara cartel, whether it's Miguel Gallardo or it's Rafa Caro Quintero.

00:36:45.380 So who is the person that actually killed Kiki?

00:36:49.560 Well, they were all involved.

00:36:51.220 They were all there.

00:36:52.560 They all wanted to hear what Kiki had to say.

00:36:56.500 They all participated in slapping him, kicking him, spitting on him, pulling his hair, that, that type of situation.

00:37:02.760 They burnt him with cigarettes and they also would open up AK-47 cartridges, pour the powder over his chest and light him up.

00:37:11.060 He was burnt bad.

00:37:13.060 They all participated in, there wasn't, I guess, one of them that didn't go into the room where he was being held.

00:37:20.520 They didn't at least slap him.

00:37:22.500 Everybody was trying to act a little macho and kicking and slapping a poor man that was hogtied.

00:37:28.180 I mean, these are real animals.

00:37:33.140 Well, I want to show you a video and I'm curious to know, get your reaction on this.

00:37:36.420 When you see this video of Rafa from back in the days, what do you think about when you see this video?

00:37:42.000 I'm curious to get your reaction.

00:37:43.360 Rafa from back in the days, what do you think about when you see this video?

00:38:13.360 Six, no, sorry.

00:38:15.720 ¿Por qué el narcotráfico, Rafael?

00:38:17.780 No, no, no.

00:38:18.340 ¿Por qué te dedicaste?

00:38:19.320 ¿Por qué te dedicaste?

00:38:19.660 Me gustó, me gustó.

00:38:21.480 ¿Por qué? ¿Por qué te daba dinero fácil?

00:38:23.300 ¿Por qué?

00:38:23.760 No, nada es fácil, señorita. 0.86

00:38:25.460 No, lo sé.

00:38:26.040 ¿Por qué te gustó?

00:38:27.140 ¿Qué te incentivo?

00:38:28.100 No, no, no sé.

00:38:29.200 ¿Cuánto tiempo has tenido estas actividades?

00:38:31.820 Un año o dos.

00:38:33.580 ¿Sientes arrepentimiento?

00:38:35.240 ¿Ahora?

00:38:36.100 Que le diguiera.

00:38:38.100 Arrepentido nunca estoy.

00:38:39.520 Lo hecho ya está hecho.

00:38:40.740 Y ya estoy aquí.

00:38:41.640 ¿Qué quiere y quiere?

00:38:42.020 Tengo dos líneas de traerles, tengo fábricas de lo quiera y eso.

00:38:47.880 Hago como 100.000 bloques diarios.

00:38:50.260 Oiga, Rafael, ¿cuál es su verdadera relación con el narcotráfico?

00:38:53.580 ¿Cómo lo conoció?

00:38:55.320 Desde que nací lo conozco.

00:38:57.520 Desde que nací lo conozco.

00:38:58.580 ¿Y qué tipo de relación lo llevó?

00:39:00.000 Que somos compadres nada más y soy un muy conocido.

00:39:03.220 ¿Cuál es su relación con Félix Gallardo, señor?

00:39:05.420 Una.

00:39:06.100 ¿Lo conoces?

00:39:06.980 Dos niños.

00:39:08.520 No lo conoces.

00:39:09.260 ¿Qué hiciste conocerte esta vez?

00:39:12.320 Me dicen que era un país muy tranquilo y por lo que veo.

00:39:15.000 No.

00:39:19.340 Así fue.

00:39:20.480 Nosotros te hemos visto en muchas ocasiones sonreír.

00:39:23.480 ¿Te consideras un tipo simpático?

00:39:26.480 No, no, simpático.

00:39:27.440 Nada más que me siento seguro de mí mismo.

00:39:28.940 Y estoy contento.

00:39:34.100 Todo lo que hay dentro, pero un día he de salir afuera.

00:39:36.840 ¿Qué espera de la vida?

00:39:38.600 No.

00:39:39.480 Todo.

00:39:39.920 Todo para adelante.

00:39:40.760 Nada más lo que quieras.

00:39:41.660 ¿Cómo lo tratas?

00:39:42.460 ¿Qué piensan?

00:39:45.140 when you see him speaking in that video?

00:39:47.420 When I think about it, it upsets me.

00:39:49.400 He's, I know he's living in a golden cage.

00:39:53.340 He is permitted and taken out to have dinners at restaurants

00:39:56.520 while he's in custody.

00:39:58.640 He's allowed to carry a gun in his cell.

00:40:01.900 He basically living a very nice life while incarcerated.

00:40:08.080 And he knows that sooner or later,

00:40:09.520 he'll be able to buy himself out.

00:40:11.680 Now, as you see, he seems very happy.

00:40:16.060 He doesn't seem like he's being punished at all.

00:40:19.600 Now, you know, the challenge is a lot of people say he still has money,

00:40:25.280 but you've seen the interview he did where he said,

00:40:27.040 I don't have any money.

00:40:28.020 You know, I'm broke.

00:40:28.780 People are giving me food.

00:40:30.280 You know, I'm struggling with life right now, et cetera, et cetera.

00:40:33.600 Based on you having more information than the rest of us,

00:40:36.780 do you think he still has a lot of the money he had before in the power?

00:40:39.480 Or do you think he doesn't have anywhere close to the power he had back in the 80s?

00:40:43.240 I know he has a lot of money in Panama.

00:40:46.680 If you recall, it was a Panama Papers investigation that came out about two years ago.

00:40:51.300 He has millions of money, of dollars in Panamanian accounts.

00:40:57.700 When I investigated him back in 85, we, I, my team, the Leyenda team,

00:41:05.400 found almost a billion dollars that he had at a Luxembourg bank in Germany.

00:41:12.240 Now, we seized that money, and we later found out that that money also went back then

00:41:18.800 to Ali North in support of the Contras.

00:41:22.800 That billion dollars back then.

00:41:26.700 And this is a billion dollars back in the 80s.

00:41:29.160 Back in 1985.

00:41:31.280 Well, 89, actually, is when we found it.

00:41:33.860 So, they show that there's a $20 million reward on him.

00:41:38.100 Is there still the reward, or was that back in the days?

00:41:40.120 I see the number $20 million all over the place.

00:41:42.580 He is the most wanted agent by the FBI,

00:41:47.280 and there is a $20 million reward for anybody that will turn him in.

00:41:52.140 But nobody's going to turn him in because he is now

00:41:55.920 jefe de jefes of the Caborca cartel.

00:41:59.200 He has recently formed his own cartel,

00:42:03.300 a Caborca Sonora,

00:42:04.560 and in the last three or four months, he has killed over 20 people.

00:42:08.240 He himself.

00:42:09.320 Back in the game.

00:42:10.720 So, he's back in the game.

00:42:13.240 Yes.

00:42:13.980 And is that proven?

00:42:14.920 Is that something that people know?

00:42:16.800 Yes, it's known.

00:42:18.900 What's his level?

00:42:20.060 The papers in Mexico, the shootouts.

00:42:22.780 Basically, there's been a lot of killings,

00:42:24.560 and he is in war also with the Chapitos.

00:42:30.320 So, they're together.

00:42:31.240 They're running together.

00:42:33.220 No, they're warring with each other.

00:42:35.040 They hate each other.

00:42:36.040 They're warring with each other.

00:42:37.040 Okay, got it.

00:42:37.680 They can't stand each other.

00:42:39.100 But Sinaloa is more powerful than they are today.

00:42:41.280 I believe that the strongest, more prolific right now cartel in Mexico

00:42:48.540 is the Sinaloa cartel, which is being run by El Mayo Zambada.

00:42:53.780 Got it.

00:42:54.320 When you think about the corridos, when you listen to the songs,

00:42:58.740 do you listen to any corridos yourself or no?

00:43:01.320 Yes, I do.

00:43:02.600 Okay.

00:43:02.860 So, I have a lot of friends who are from Michoacan or Jalisco or Zacatecas or Oaxaca

00:43:07.240 or any of these places, and I'll sit in the car, and they'll play some corridos.

00:43:12.620 And the music, I'm Middle Eastern.

00:43:14.940 I can't help but my hips just start moving itself. 0.78

00:43:17.560 It's like automatic, you know, because the music goes.

00:43:20.240 But whether it's the old school Chalino Sanchez or the new school Tercer Almento,

00:43:25.300 how do you feel when you hear these songs and they're, you know,

00:43:27.920 they're building up Rafa.

00:43:29.220 They're portraying them as a hero.

00:43:31.180 How do you see that when you see the music?

00:43:32.580 It upsets me a lot, especially the one where it's titled,

00:43:37.440 Yo No Matea Camarena, I Didn't Kill Camarena,

00:43:40.920 when we know he was very much involved.

00:43:43.620 As a matter of fact, when Kiki was basically in agony,

00:43:51.660 Ponseca, who was a jefe of the jefes,

00:43:54.600 ordered him basically take him to a hospital.

00:43:58.600 That's when they brought in Dr. Machine.

00:44:00.560 Kiki was not supposed to be killed.

00:44:04.540 And so Ponseca was very upset that Kiki had been tortured so severely.

00:44:15.160 And he ordered Machine to go ahead and take him to a hospital.

00:44:19.260 And Caro Quintero intervened and he said,

00:44:20.900 nope, he's not going to the hospital.

00:44:22.760 He's a DEA agent.

00:44:24.100 We cannot, you know, take that chance of taking him to a hospital.

00:44:28.120 So Fonseca said, but he's going to die. 1.00

00:44:30.700 He says, I don't give a shit. 1.00

00:44:31.940 Let him die. 1.00

00:44:33.200 And Fonseca was so mad that he slapped Caro Quintero so hard in the face 0.99

00:44:38.060 that he almost knocked him down.

00:44:40.980 As a matter of fact, my witnesses, which were some of the pistoleros,

00:44:44.880 they all went for their guns.

00:44:46.620 And of course, Caro Quintero's gunmen also went for their guns.

00:44:48.740 And according to what they tell me,

00:44:51.240 they would have outgunned Caro Quintero's guys

00:44:53.120 because there was more of them providing protection for Fonseca

00:44:56.900 than Caro had protecting him.

00:44:59.920 But Caro Quintero is a dummy because can you imagine,

00:45:06.120 had they not killed Camarena, how big they would be now? 0.90

00:45:10.580 How big would they have been?

00:45:12.200 Oh, my God.

00:45:13.600 They would basically be controlling the whole government of Mexico.

00:45:16.440 As it was, I mean, they entertained presidents.

00:45:21.940 They would make trips to Los Pinos, which is Mexico's White House.

00:45:27.440 I have two witnesses that went with Fonseca

00:45:30.320 to meet with President de la Madrid on a couple of occasions at Los Pinos.

00:45:35.480 This is the kind of influence they already had.

00:45:37.940 So, you know, you said earlier that the cartel is stronger today than before.

00:45:47.060 Why do you say the cartel is stronger today than before?

00:45:50.460 Because we have access to better technology.

00:45:52.760 There is better ways to do surveillance.

00:45:55.580 Why do you think the cartel is stronger today than before?

00:45:57.880 Because in the old days when Ernesto Fonseca Carrillo was running the cartels,

00:46:06.820 he had very strict rules.

00:46:09.360 There was no intervention allowed with the regular citizens of Mexico.

00:46:15.100 If they killed anybody that was not part of their cartel network without a reason,

00:46:22.160 that was death to those guys.

00:46:23.960 In other words, he had a federation.

00:46:26.740 He would have meetings with them and say, okay, what's going on?

00:46:29.680 I'm not going to allow any disorder.

00:46:33.020 I'm not going to allow any violence.

00:46:35.020 And no, you're not going to kidnap people.

00:46:37.640 You're not going to extort money from people.

00:46:39.720 That was not allowed by Fonseca.

00:46:42.760 He had strict control and rules.

00:46:46.420 The cartels now, they extort from the citizens. 0.99

00:46:50.700 They pick up girls and rape them. 0.99

00:46:52.760 They're out of control. 0.99

00:46:54.620 Look at what they just did last year to the LeBron family, the Mormons that were massacred 1.00

00:47:00.340 November the 5th, 2019, that were traveling to Mexico to a wedding.

00:47:07.000 There was no grown men in that group.

00:47:09.360 There was 13 women and children.

00:47:12.400 And the cartels were mad at LeBron because they had not been paying extortion monies every month.

00:47:19.240 They had refused to.

00:47:20.260 And this was done to basically instill fear in them and bring them into line so that they could be extorted.

00:47:28.160 They were so vicious that after shooting the nine women and children, there were three babies left in baby chairs.

00:47:35.980 And they lit fire to the cars and burned those babies to death.

00:47:42.280 And that would never have happened during the Guadalajara cartel days.

00:47:48.340 The old man would have not permitted that.

00:47:50.940 And now they're out of control.

00:47:52.640 Ernesto Fonseca, is he kind of like the lucky Luciano of the Italian mob? 0.56

00:47:57.720 Is that kind of a way of putting it where he was a chairman?

00:47:59.940 He kind of led all the families together?

00:48:01.980 Absolutely.

00:48:03.560 He was the jefe de jefes.

00:48:05.860 He ruled with an iron fist.

00:48:08.240 He issued the different plazas or areas where everybody was going to be working.

00:48:12.960 He had the Arellanos in Tijuana.

00:48:15.940 He had Juan Garcia Abrego in Texas.

00:48:20.200 He doled out the different areas.

00:48:22.180 And everybody was working under his command.

00:48:25.580 Everybody was working underneath him.

00:48:27.120 And it wasn't until after, like I said, we destroyed the Guadalajara cartel that all these little cartels started springing up all over the place.

00:48:36.040 And they started warring with each other.

00:48:38.020 And that's why it's worse now than it ever was back in 1985.

00:48:43.340 You think it ever will settle down?

00:48:44.800 You think it will ever calm down?

00:48:47.220 Never.

00:48:48.240 Why do you say never?

00:48:49.420 Not until we intervene.

00:48:52.060 And what does we mean?

00:48:53.460 We as United States or we as the Mexican government?

00:48:55.620 As a matter of fact, President Trump offered to send SEALs, Army Rangers into Mexico to deal with the cartels once for all after the Liberan murders there in Sonora.

00:49:09.420 And Lopez Oro would have nothing to do with it.

00:49:12.960 Who wouldn't have nothing to do with it?

00:49:14.600 The president of Mexico.

00:49:15.520 He said that he was not, he didn't want a war with the cartels, that he was going to solve the drug problem with abrazos, not balazos, with hugs, not bullets.

00:49:29.260 He really said that.

00:49:30.540 He said that.

00:49:31.460 He said that to President Trump.

00:49:32.920 Yes.

00:49:34.500 He's going to solve it with hugs, not weapons.

00:49:39.600 Yes, without bullets.

00:49:40.980 Balazos means bullets.

00:49:42.260 Balazos means bullets.

00:49:43.620 Wow.

00:49:43.940 I mean, it's tough to, when somebody's using bullets and you want to go hug them, you're probably going to be having a bullet in your back when you do that.

00:49:51.820 You know, it's a different kind of a war you're fighting.

00:49:53.560 So, are you saying, are you saying, so you said the only way it'll happen is if we help them, America.

00:50:00.040 So, maybe it's not America.

00:50:01.580 Maybe it's a different kind of a leader that Mexico needs to have that's willing to cooperate with America.

00:50:06.740 So, what is the chances of Mexico having a president that's willing to cooperate with U.S.?

00:50:11.580 You know, it's hard because drugs, you know, they corrupt people.

00:50:18.200 I mean, look at the money that Peña Nieto got, for instance, from El Chapo Guzman.

00:50:23.980 It came out during the trial, it was exposed.

00:50:26.900 There was plenty of testimony that he was given $250 million, and that wasn't enough for Peña Nieto.

00:50:34.800 He wanted more money.

00:50:36.880 And let me tell you another thing.

00:50:38.740 Who do you think funds a campaign for these guys that come in?

00:50:42.020 Sure.

00:50:42.160 The cartels funded López Obrador.

00:50:45.700 He had tried to win the presidency before, and it wasn't until he partnered up with the biggest narcopolitico in Mexico, Manuel Bartlett-Diaz.

00:50:55.940 He brokered the arrangement between the cartels and López Obrador's political party.

00:51:05.400 And that is really why the reason he's a president.

00:51:08.560 He's been holding to these guys.

00:51:11.720 I specifically remember that article that came out on how much money was being paid to win power over the political power by the cartel.

00:51:21.900 I remember that article.

00:51:22.660 I don't know if it was a Wall Street Journal article, but I remember vividly reading that article.

00:51:26.660 But so when you see Trump building the wall, how do you view that?

00:51:32.920 You're somebody that's been on both sides.

00:51:34.800 You're somebody that's seen the good, the bad, the ugly, the ugliest of what happens out there.

00:51:39.740 What do you think about the wall being built?

00:51:41.380 Is it going to do anything to protect the southern border?

00:51:44.580 We need the wall.

00:51:46.600 It's not just basically impeding drugs from coming in.

00:51:51.560 What about our enemies?

00:51:52.680 What about the Taliban and all of the enemies that we have in the world? 0.85

00:51:57.720 They can come in through a porous border also.

00:52:01.280 It's not just drugs.

00:52:03.380 We, believe it or not, we need that wall for our national security.

00:52:08.840 Just not to have a wall and have people come in and out.

00:52:12.580 We're going to get terrorists in here.

00:52:14.900 We're going to be inundated with drugs.

00:52:17.540 And we need that wall.

00:52:19.020 Did you see the last debate that took place where the topic of coyotes came out?

00:52:25.460 Yes, I did.

00:52:26.580 What are your thoughts when that conversation came back and forth about what happens when these coyotes are bringing kids over?

00:52:34.780 What does that look like for some that have no clue what that looks like?

00:52:38.280 Can you educate some of the folks that don't know what the business model of coyotes is?

00:52:45.240 Coyotes are criminals like any other criminal.

00:52:47.780 They do not only smuggle in humans, they also smuggle in drugs, and they'll smuggle in terrorists. 0.80

00:52:54.720 They're there to make a buck. 0.99

00:52:56.800 They are criminals. 0.98

00:52:58.820 They actually pay people to lend their women and children to pose as children coming in with criminals. 0.93

00:53:09.240 Let's say that a drug organization wants to bring in, let's say, an assassin.

00:53:15.900 What they'll do is they'll go to a coyote.

00:53:18.060 The coyote will pay a family to lend a small child to the assassin so that he can come in and say, I'm here with my daughter.

00:53:28.460 I'm here with my child.

00:53:29.380 And he'll, they'll probably let him in.

00:53:33.200 Okay.

00:53:34.080 So coyotes are criminals like any, any other criminal.

00:53:39.000 They're there to make an illegal, illegal dollar, and they'll do anything to include bringing in drugs, to include providing drug traffickers with children so that they could basically claim that they're their kids.

00:53:55.900 They're into all of this criminality.

00:53:58.460 How do you know this yourself?

00:54:01.580 You know this because you're, you've seen it, you witnessed it, or you hear about it from your peers?

00:54:06.080 I investigated it even back then it was happening.

00:54:09.500 Back in the, back in 85.

00:54:11.100 This is nothing new.

00:54:12.640 They've used these tactics and techniques since way back.

00:54:16.240 And you think the wall is going to help that, minimize it?

00:54:19.680 Absolutely.

00:54:20.300 I think it'll, it'll, it'll, it'll help.

00:54:22.280 It's not going to stop it.

00:54:23.380 They're always going to figure out a way to bring in drugs and basically bring in humans, do the human trafficking. 0.95

00:54:31.400 They're just going to find another way to do it.

00:54:33.280 They'll either fly him in or bring him in by boat or dig more tunnels that we've seen.

00:54:38.300 They will always figure out a way to get their drugs in. 0.71

00:54:43.100 So, so last thought on this topic before we move on.

00:54:46.220 So based on what you're saying is you, you don't see this cartel model slowing down for decades and decades and decades.

00:54:55.460 That is correct.

00:54:56.520 As, as long as there's a demand for drugs, there will be those that are going to provide them.

00:55:02.380 The cartels is not going to stop in Mexico until we go in and clean it up.

00:55:07.580 And I don't even know if this country really wants to clean it up.

00:55:11.900 This has been going on for years.

00:55:14.000 Our CIA, everybody knows, indignated our country with, with cocaine.

00:55:19.320 Our CIA was the biggest cocaine cartel in the, in the late 80s and into the 90s.

00:55:24.880 They created a generation of crack addicts in the inner cities.

00:55:29.560 Look at all the violence that came behind all of that.

00:55:32.460 When you had the bloods and the Crips killing each other over drug turfs. 1.00

00:55:36.540 Look at all the, please look at all the overdoses.

00:55:41.140 Look at all the families that were affected by the CIA inundating our inner cities with cocaine.

00:55:51.320 How do you think I felt as a DEA agent when I was told go arrest that, that person, anybody, white, black, it doesn't matter. 0.70

00:56:00.280 Go arrest him.

00:56:00.920 He's, he's got 10 ounces of cocaine for sale.

00:56:03.020 I would go arrest him, take him to trial.

00:56:05.680 He would get 15, 20 years in prison.

00:56:07.680 Then we would go and stop a plane that had 20 tons of cocaine.

00:56:12.480 And it was a CIA plane with a CIA operative.

00:56:15.060 And we were told, oh, don't do nothing to him.

00:56:17.700 That's a CIA operation.

00:56:19.300 Leave it alone.

00:56:20.780 We knew they were inundated our cities with, with cocaine.

00:56:23.520 I knew it.

00:56:24.040 I was involved in the Blondon race in, in, in, in the, in the eighties.

00:56:28.800 Blondon, the needle Blondon, who was a, a contra official who was inundating South Central with, with cocaine.

00:56:36.800 He was the one that was supplying highway Ricky Ross with hundreds of kilos of cocaine.

00:56:42.920 Yeah, we've had Rick Ross here as well.

00:56:47.880 And we've had conversation with him too, uh, before here.

00:56:51.500 Let, let, let me ask you which one of the former presidents of Mexico was close to being able to go against, uh, the cartel.

00:56:57.260 And he wasn't afraid of it.

00:56:58.140 For instance, Vicente Fox, or was there ever a Mexican president that there was a slight chance of things changing in Mexico or no?

00:57:04.760 Any president that gets in there pretty much bought out.

00:57:06.920 Not in my time.

00:57:09.440 When I was with DEA, we always had information that the presidents were protecting the drug lords and were getting money and also drugs for their personal use from the drug lords.

00:57:22.320 Got it.

00:57:23.120 Okay.

00:57:23.860 Uh, last question here before we wrap up is, uh, have you seen the show Narcos, both Colombia and Mexico?

00:57:32.160 Yes, I have.

00:57:33.020 But how accurate is it from somebody that's been in that world from your eyes?

00:57:37.900 It's all, I would say it's like, uh, 90% creative writing.

00:57:42.300 Most of it is not true.

00:57:44.240 I don't like show because they glamorize the drug lords.

00:57:49.280 In the last episode, uh, they, uh, show, I forget his name, the actor that was playing Gallardo's role, inviting Kiki to a dinner as he's being held.

00:57:59.420 They cater food for Kiki as he's being held, and he's asking Kiki to please cooperate.

00:58:05.220 Um, yeah, it was Diego Luna, the actor that was playing that part.

00:58:08.360 I wanted to vomit.

00:58:10.380 You know, why do they do this?

00:58:13.300 What do they want to glamorize? 0.69

00:58:15.100 A stone killer, a sociopath, which is what Gallardo was.

00:58:20.440 Why do they do that?

00:58:21.800 That's not true.

00:58:23.120 Kiki wasn't even offered a glass of water.

00:58:25.760 Please give me a break.

00:58:30.520 You can tell there's emotions there with you.

00:58:32.880 I mean, you, you're, you're someone that was involved and it's, uh, easily felt just, uh, listening to you here, uh, from where you're at.

00:58:39.820 So, you know, I'll give you the last thoughts here right now.

00:58:42.300 Uh, just to know that our audience has seen a lot of different stories.

00:58:47.380 They've sat here and watched Steve Murphy and Javier Pena.

00:58:50.240 They've sat here and listened to Sammy, the Bull Gravano.

00:58:53.420 We've had a lot of different mobs.

00:58:55.220 We've had people that are political.

00:58:56.860 We've had presidents on.

00:58:57.960 We've had billionaires on.

00:58:59.600 What are your final thoughts you want to say to the viewer on the relationship between U.S., the borders, Mexico, southern borders, cartel?

00:59:07.680 What are some final thoughts you want to leave the viewer with?

00:59:10.500 What I want to leave the viewer with is this.

00:59:12.720 I cannot believe that to this day, there are identified suspects in the murder of Camarena in our country that have not been indicted and arrested.

00:59:26.360 I tried to arrest these folks, and I was told to back off.

00:59:32.100 And I think it is time that the American public know that our government has not protected them from these cartels.

00:59:39.660 Our government itself was involved in inundating our country with drugs.

00:59:48.580 They did not care of who died of overdoses.

00:59:52.500 They did not care of all the bloodshed that their drugs were causing in our inner cities.

00:59:56.900 All they care about was funding a capricious war that had not been authorized by the U.S. government.

01:00:07.360 Corruption continues greatly in Mexico, but there's also a lot of corruption here.

01:00:14.340 I was hoping that with my documentary, The Last Narc, that it would basically get the attention of people and say, what are we doing here?

01:00:22.120 Why are these people that were involved in Kiki's murder, like the CIA operative and an American corrupt agent that set up Kiki, why have they not been arrested and put to justice?

01:00:35.780 I want to invite people to read.

01:00:38.140 It's all here in my book, The Last Narc.

01:00:42.740 I encourage them to read, and I have a lot of information that I have not basically talked about here in this program that they need to know.

01:00:51.400 They need to know the mysterious ways and the corrupt ways that our intelligence agencies involve themselves with these drug cartels.

01:01:01.320 Not just back then.

01:01:03.220 I believe they're still doing it to this day.

01:01:06.460 The CIA funds all their operations with drug monies.

01:01:11.160 Till today.

01:01:12.360 Wow.

01:01:12.900 So here's what we're going to do.

01:01:14.080 We're going to put the link to your book below.

01:01:15.460 We're going to put the link to your series below as well.

01:01:18.840 The Last Narc on Amazon.

01:01:20.020 Go watch it before there's a conflict and they take it down.

01:01:22.940 As well as I believe you're starting a YouTube and a podcast called Cartel Madness.

01:01:27.260 We'll put the link below for that as well.

01:01:29.360 Having said that, Hector, thank you so much for taking the time for sharing your story on Valuetainment.

01:01:36.020 Thank you.

01:01:36.540 It's been a pleasure.

01:01:37.660 Different kind of a perspective, right?

01:01:38.960 Coming from a DEA agent when he tells you what's really going on in Mexico with the cartel and what happened in the 80s versus today.

01:01:44.780 And by the way, if you enjoyed this interview, I also did another interview with Steve Murphy and Javier Pena who were the two DEA agents that went up against Pablo Escobar.

01:01:52.920 If you've never seen that, click over here.

01:01:54.580 The title of the video is Who Killed Pablo Escobar?

01:01:57.160 It's a riveting story if you've never seen it before.

01:01:59.680 And if you're not subscribed to the channel, please do so.

01:02:01.820 Thanks for watching, everybody.

01:02:02.720 Take care.

01:02:03.140 Bye-bye.

Valuetainment - November 18, 2020

Mexico DEA Narc Reveals CIA’s Greatest Coverup

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