Valuetainment - November 15, 2025


“Muslims Were SLAUGHTERING Christians” - Sam Shamoun DEMOLISHES The Myth Of Islam’s Innocence


Episode Stats

Length

14 minutes

Words per Minute

203.90112

Word Count

2,920

Sentence Count

313

Hate Speech Sentences

15


Summary

In this episode, I sit down with my good friend, Sam, to talk about his life story, how he became a Christian, and what it means to be a Christian in today's society. Sam is a great storyteller, and I am so blessed to have him on the show.


Transcript

00:00:00.140 Sam, how many times have you read the Quran?
00:00:02.700 I don't know, really.
00:00:04.060 Maybe once or twice, I don't know.
00:00:06.040 No, stop it.
00:00:06.840 No, I'm serious, I don't...
00:00:08.720 Literally, you've read it maybe once or twice?
00:00:10.680 Yeah.
00:00:11.100 And how do you remember everything?
00:00:12.900 As I was trying, I said, I think we said off there,
00:00:15.400 in the 90s, I realized, honestly,
00:00:17.720 when I would have a conversation,
00:00:18.820 verses would pop in my head.
00:00:20.600 So, it's not I trained for it,
00:00:21.980 and I don't want people to be impressed by it, right?
00:00:24.140 No, knowledge puffs up, love builds up.
00:00:28.020 I got a lot of issues that I pray God will show me
00:00:30.120 mercy on the Day of Judgment.
00:00:31.100 But I just realized, maybe it's God's way of gifting me.
00:00:34.340 How many times have you read the Bible?
00:00:36.640 If I go back, I've probably read it two or three times.
00:00:39.900 Two or three times?
00:00:40.940 I don't really read it all the way through.
00:00:42.820 Like now, it's just like, you know,
00:00:44.680 I'll go through it, you know,
00:00:46.420 maybe read a psalm here or there,
00:00:47.640 or if I'm researching, yeah, it's...
00:00:50.020 I guess, like, when they drop...
00:00:51.400 Really, I was dropped as a child when I was one, in my head.
00:00:54.220 So, maybe I triggered something, I don't know.
00:00:55.640 Maybe that's how God does it, right?
00:00:56.720 Are you a massive...
00:00:58.340 Because when I sat down with Charlie Kirk
00:01:00.400 and we would talk to him,
00:01:02.320 off camera he would say he studies three hours every day,
00:01:06.240 no matter what he reads,
00:01:07.560 and studies three hours every day.
00:01:09.040 Do you have a ritual of studying a lot every day?
00:01:11.500 Do you read a lot every day?
00:01:12.640 Not that way.
00:01:13.380 What I do is, I'm always on my blog,
00:01:15.740 writing posts for people,
00:01:17.760 if not doing live streams.
00:01:18.800 So, I'm not studying,
00:01:20.580 I'm writing to equip people with articles
00:01:23.100 so they can use it in battle.
00:01:25.720 Because I want to equip people.
00:01:27.040 Because, look,
00:01:28.820 if the Lord tarries, I'm going to die.
00:01:30.420 So, at six and a half,
00:01:32.340 this nine-year-old comes to you.
00:01:33.720 At that time,
00:01:34.720 at that time,
00:01:36.020 what's your relationship with your dad,
00:01:37.400 at six and a half?
00:01:38.600 My dad walked away when I was probably seven,
00:01:42.040 shortly right after that.
00:01:43.080 So, it's right around that time
00:01:44.300 that this is happening to you.
00:01:45.940 Got it.
00:01:46.300 Okay, so that had a massive impact on you.
00:01:48.500 Huge.
00:01:48.920 Huge.
00:01:49.540 So, is that a moment for you
00:01:52.000 where your biological father walked out,
00:01:54.980 but your spiritual father's going to be with you forever?
00:01:58.040 Did that give you that peace as a young man?
00:01:59.700 Yeah, Raymond was...
00:02:00.740 Young boy?
00:02:01.220 Yeah, Raymond was pretty much my dad,
00:02:03.260 even though he was nine.
00:02:04.200 And his grandmother,
00:02:06.340 my mother was a wonderful woman.
00:02:08.260 She left a wonderful legacy.
00:02:09.540 But she wasn't educated in scripture.
00:02:11.520 But his grandmother was my spiritual mother.
00:02:13.440 Raymond's grandmother.
00:02:14.500 Raymond's, yeah, because his mother died when he was young.
00:02:16.620 So, his maternal grandmother raised him and his brother.
00:02:19.900 How much time did you spend with her?
00:02:21.840 I think from six and a half to ten.
00:02:24.320 How often?
00:02:24.940 Like every day?
00:02:25.560 Every day we'd go.
00:02:26.420 I'd hang out with him every day.
00:02:27.460 We'd go to the house.
00:02:28.060 She would teach us prayers.
00:02:29.400 She would or he would?
00:02:30.580 She would.
00:02:31.440 In fact, because of her impact,
00:02:33.100 I still remember.
00:02:34.480 Now I know it's part of the liturgy of the Assyrian Church,
00:02:37.700 but I didn't know that back then.
00:02:38.840 She taught me this.
00:02:40.840 It etched, for some reason, those prayers.
00:02:42.600 She taught me that.
00:02:46.920 She also taught me the Ave Maria,
00:02:48.580 but in a different way from where, you know,
00:02:51.260 like Buccelli says it.
00:02:53.380 She taught it this way.
00:02:54.220 Now, guys, I'm not a singer,
00:02:55.380 and I'm not going to give up my day job.
00:02:56.820 So, she taught it this way.
00:02:58.720 Ave, Ave, Ave Maria.
00:03:02.920 So, I remember that.
00:03:03.740 For some reason, it stayed in my mind.
00:03:05.800 Right?
00:03:05.980 She was a wonderful woman.
00:03:07.560 Six and a half years old.
00:03:08.840 Was Raymond's grandmother friends with your mother?
00:03:11.560 No.
00:03:12.160 They didn't know each other?
00:03:12.940 No.
00:03:13.440 They were in the neighborhood.
00:03:15.820 So, you know, you know how you meet people high and by.
00:03:18.480 You're Chicago.
00:03:19.180 Yeah.
00:03:19.420 It wasn't like, you know, oh, we're cousin.
00:03:21.200 No.
00:03:21.360 It's just he was taught to go soul winning.
00:03:24.400 So, when he won me, he took me to his grandmother,
00:03:27.260 and she'd teach us prayers.
00:03:28.180 And what was the denomination?
00:03:30.400 She was Catholic.
00:03:31.540 His uncle on his mother's side became Baptist.
00:03:35.580 So, later on at 18 years old, when that security guard,
00:03:39.900 the guy you're working with at the valley, at this Bob's city.
00:03:42.760 Yeah, Bob's city.
00:03:44.760 When you worked there, and he introduced you to the Nation of Islam
00:03:48.800 and, you know, Farrakhan and all these guys.
00:03:52.040 At that time, would you say pre-meeting him,
00:03:55.260 you'd consider yourself a Christian, or your last teenager kind of going through?
00:03:58.380 Yeah, I had pretty much turned my back on Christian.
00:04:00.920 When you left at 10 years old, 1982, you said?
00:04:03.560 It was about 13.
00:04:04.280 13.
00:04:04.800 When he hit 10, he re-looked, but, yeah, I think he was 10, he moved.
00:04:07.680 Then I started slipping, but around 13, I was just, ah.
00:04:09.960 Gone.
00:04:10.440 Yeah.
00:04:10.720 So, 13 to 18, there's nothing?
00:04:12.120 No.
00:04:12.760 No church, no mentor, no father figure, no nothing?
00:04:16.000 Yeah.
00:04:16.540 Did you go to college?
00:04:17.640 Are you a good student in school?
00:04:18.860 No.
00:04:18.880 What are you doing in school?
00:04:20.660 I was such a good student, I got that on out of high school.
00:04:23.740 Third year.
00:04:24.880 Yeah.
00:04:25.340 In high school.
00:04:25.960 Yeah, and I got a GD.
00:04:26.680 And this is Chicago.
00:04:27.120 Yep.
00:04:27.560 Then I got a GD.
00:04:28.300 And never been to college, never been to St. Mary, never been to university.
00:04:32.700 What was your, you know, what class came easy to you?
00:04:36.220 Are you a math guy?
00:04:37.160 Are you an English guy?
00:04:38.040 Are you a history guy?
00:04:38.880 Are you?
00:04:39.400 I liked history, but not in school.
00:04:41.120 I just hated being in school because of my body dysmorphia and low self-esteem.
00:04:44.920 I couldn't be around crowds.
00:04:45.980 Were you in gangs?
00:04:46.800 Were you a troublemaker?
00:04:47.800 Were you?
00:04:48.220 I was with the gangs, but I wasn't the tough guy.
00:04:50.740 I mean, yeah, I hung out with, like, the Assyrian kings.
00:04:54.840 In Chicago.
00:04:55.780 Okay.
00:04:56.300 Assyrian kings, right?
00:04:57.160 Yeah.
00:04:57.260 So 18 years old, you meet this guy.
00:04:59.500 Did you ever convert and become a Muslim or no?
00:05:02.760 In my heart, I believe Muhammad was a prophet, but it's not good enough because if you go
00:05:07.280 with Sunni Islamic tradition, you have to take the Shahada in front of at least two witnesses.
00:05:12.780 But the guy who was talking about Islam, he didn't take me to a mosque.
00:05:15.580 He just was talking.
00:05:16.460 And then I started.
00:05:17.480 My curiosity is such that when I get into something, I have to study it.
00:05:20.800 So if I backtrack, like, when I like Bruce Lee, I add up every book on Bruce Lee, and I would
00:05:26.540 devour hours into Bruce Lee.
00:05:28.140 I had to know this guy inside and up.
00:05:29.980 When it came to bodybuilding, I would devour every bodybuilding magazine, and there was
00:05:34.440 Arnold Schwarzenegger's encyclopedia.
00:05:36.040 Something about me, when I'm into something, I eat it up, and nothing else matters.
00:05:42.720 It's like, I'm just focused on this.
00:05:44.320 The world can go to hell.
00:05:45.680 I mean, God forbid.
00:05:46.460 But, you know, I'm not.
00:05:47.200 And so whatever I focus on becomes the entire center of my life.
00:05:56.140 Everything I do revolves around that.
00:05:57.980 So during this time, I'm thinking, I'm really, I've deceived myself.
00:06:00.460 I'm going to make it to Hollywood.
00:06:02.120 The Lord had a sense of your view.
00:06:03.280 At 18.
00:06:04.000 At 18.
00:06:04.180 Yeah, when I was bodybuilding, my goal was that I'm going to get into Hollywood like
00:06:09.540 these guys did.
00:06:10.160 Bruce Lee did martial arts.
00:06:11.200 I'm going to do it somehow.
00:06:12.620 I'm going to do it somehow.
00:06:13.400 So are you watching Jean-Claude Van Damme?
00:06:15.000 Are you watching all these movies?
00:06:16.120 Are you watching?
00:06:16.600 I would watch them, but they never compare to Bruce Lee.
00:06:18.600 I would watch Bruce Lee over again.
00:06:19.540 You know who's a big Bruce Lee guy?
00:06:20.740 Who?
00:06:20.900 Dana White.
00:06:21.740 He is?
00:06:22.180 You go to his gym in his office.
00:06:23.660 Come on, man.
00:06:24.140 Bruce Lee quotes everywhere.
00:06:26.120 He's all right.
00:06:26.660 When you walk into his office, there's a Bruce Lee quote on the wall in his office.
00:06:30.780 Like, Dana's a Bruce Lee fanatic.
00:06:34.120 So he does think he's a real dude.
00:06:35.220 He's not a fake, huh?
00:06:36.340 No, no, no, no.
00:06:37.240 Good, man.
00:06:37.800 Based on the way I had when I was with him, it was a lot of respect for him.
00:06:41.260 His quotes are all over his gym, everywhere.
00:06:43.340 Okay, so 18 years old.
00:06:46.640 Now, is he discipling you?
00:06:49.020 Is this guy discipling you?
00:06:49.720 No.
00:06:49.900 Did he bring you anywhere?
00:06:50.840 Did you meet somebody?
00:06:51.820 Did someone, did you meet any of the big names on the Nation of Islam?
00:06:55.420 Nothing.
00:06:55.760 It's all independent identity.
00:06:57.060 I just went searching.
00:06:58.220 Went to bookstores.
00:06:59.320 18 years old, there's no internet.
00:07:00.820 There is internet, but there's not the Google and all that stuff because, you know, your
00:07:04.600 age where you're at.
00:07:05.760 I don't remember using internet at that time either.
00:07:07.520 No.
00:07:07.620 It was more the AOL chat or whatever.
00:07:09.340 Yeah, I remember the slow one.
00:07:11.240 Yeah, that's right.
00:07:12.320 Net zero and all of that.
00:07:14.020 Yeah.
00:07:14.320 Yeah.
00:07:14.580 So, okay.
00:07:15.040 So at this time you're going through it and then you read the Quran and you go through
00:07:18.500 your phase.
00:07:19.580 What are you doing occupation wise?
00:07:21.520 What are you doing to make money?
00:07:22.420 At that time I was working security and sometimes I'd work as a tow truck guy just to buy time
00:07:29.620 to get into it.
00:07:30.240 I'm serious.
00:07:30.700 I was really, I really thought I was delusional.
00:07:33.380 All right.
00:07:33.960 But how did I find, how did I research?
00:07:36.340 I just go to bookstore.
00:07:37.120 There was a Muslim bookstore in Chicago, Northside, Devon.
00:07:41.600 There was actually two.
00:07:42.800 One of them is still there.
00:07:43.920 If the people are watching, they'll know what I'm talking about.
00:07:45.560 It's by Devon, California.
00:07:46.660 It's called Iqra.
00:07:47.780 But in the 90s it was not at that same spot.
00:07:50.560 So I'd go buy Muslim books and I'd go, now we still have Barnes and Nobles, but at that
00:07:55.720 time we also had Borders.
00:07:57.080 You guys remember Borders?
00:07:57.960 Of course.
00:07:58.420 Yeah.
00:07:58.800 I love Borders more than Barnes and Nobles.
00:08:00.480 Why is it?
00:08:01.000 I don't know, man.
00:08:01.880 I just, I don't know.
00:08:03.280 I just liked it.
00:08:04.960 Maybe the colors, who knows?
00:08:06.180 But I would go there and try to get books and then Muslim bookstores, obviously.
00:08:11.040 But what really did it for me is I would buy VHS tape debates.
00:08:17.580 We're living in a time of the VCR, VHS.
00:08:20.560 You know, some people say, what is that, right?
00:08:22.460 I think it's like the way of the dodo bird.
00:08:24.660 Beta Max and, you know, we had VHS.
00:08:26.720 So they would sell Muslim Christian debates.
00:08:30.560 Now all those debates are online on YouTube, but that time we didn't have YouTube.
00:08:34.640 So I bought them and I'll tell you how I got into apologetics because that was because
00:08:39.360 of some Muslim guy who challenged me.
00:08:40.860 But when I watched the debates, I'm designed in a weird way.
00:08:46.200 I learned more from attacks on the faith than I learned from defending the faith because
00:08:50.180 it forces me to think.
00:08:51.820 So I was watching the Muslim slaughtering the Christians and it got me to think, how do
00:08:56.040 I answer this guy?
00:08:57.360 So that put a fire in me to find answers.
00:08:59.420 Now, I was never a disciple.
00:09:00.760 I didn't have a pastor.
00:09:01.740 I didn't have a priest.
00:09:02.580 I didn't.
00:09:03.040 I had to just rely on God's spirit to guide me to the right sources, find the right, let's
00:09:08.480 say, authors or listen to the right Christians.
00:09:11.040 But when it came to Christian-Muslim debates, the Christians were getting slaughtered.
00:09:14.120 Now, I cannot tell you of any Christian that I think won a debate decisively in the 90s.
00:09:21.820 There were some close, but for some reason, the Muslims were slaughtering the Christians.
00:09:26.060 What was their angle?
00:09:27.040 What angle did they take that Christians didn't have a way to defend themselves?
00:09:30.180 Even when it came to Christian topics, the Christians were doing bad.
00:09:33.280 Like, is the Bible God's word?
00:09:35.300 You would have scholars.
00:09:36.420 Like, in fact, it's on YouTube.
00:09:37.340 Like, the late Dr. Gleason L. Archer, who was Professor Emeritus of, now it's closed,
00:09:43.520 but in Deerfield, Illinois, you had Trinity Evangelical Divinity Seminary.
00:09:49.300 This man was a beast.
00:09:50.940 Now, he's since been with, he's gone with the Lord.
00:09:53.820 He would read and write 25 languages.
00:09:57.740 He's amazing.
00:09:58.860 But when it came to debate, he was getting slaughtered.
00:10:02.020 And by neophyte Muslims who don't know biblical languages.
00:10:05.140 And on topics you think it would be easy for him.
00:10:07.360 He was just getting slaughtered.
00:10:08.720 You'll find on YouTube, Gleason Archer, Muslim Debates, disappointing.
00:10:12.000 Trinity, getting slaughtered.
00:10:13.760 Topics that we should win.
00:10:15.480 It's one thing when you're debating a Muslim topic you're not familiar with.
00:10:18.240 And, you know, you have the advantage.
00:10:19.480 You're a Muslim.
00:10:20.400 But when it comes to your own topics, and you are, and he is brilliant, but he's not a debater.
00:10:25.220 See, you'll see some of the debates right there.
00:10:27.080 Gleason Archer versus Jamal Baravi.
00:10:28.340 The authenticity of the Quran.
00:10:30.020 I mean, it was heartbreaking.
00:10:33.020 Because I'm not a scholar.
00:10:34.300 I'm just a, you know, teenager.
00:10:35.860 And these scholars, you know, is there a response?
00:10:40.300 So to tell you how I got into this, so see how God works.
00:10:43.540 When I finally did embrace Christ and realized that Muhammad was deceived and anti-Christ,
00:10:48.840 1 John 2, 22, 23.
00:10:50.160 I had a friend who used to teach me how to box, because I used to teach him how to bodybuild.
00:10:55.500 I don't want to mention his name.
00:10:56.780 I don't know what happened to him since.
00:10:58.860 And I don't want to get him in trouble.
00:11:00.500 I don't know if he's still in the faith.
00:11:02.280 But he was from a Bosnian background.
00:11:04.720 His father was a boxing coach.
00:11:05.880 And so he would teach me boxing.
00:11:08.880 I would teach him how to lift weights.
00:11:10.220 Because remember, I'm going to get into Hollywood, brother.
00:11:12.180 What the hell?
00:11:12.960 Damn you.
00:11:15.800 As I started talking to him about Christianity, he started getting interested.
00:11:19.840 Now, remember, he's Muslim background.
00:11:22.420 Bosnian Muslim background.
00:11:23.660 Yes, yeah.
00:11:23.960 Interesting.
00:11:25.560 So he started not going to the Jummah prayers, Friday prayers, and his community college,
00:11:32.720 Wright College.
00:11:33.780 So the Muslims started noticing.
00:11:34.840 So they asked him, what's going on?
00:11:36.720 He goes, well, you know, I'm starting to get into Christianity.
00:11:39.460 Who's the guy?
00:11:40.520 Who's been influencing you?
00:11:42.160 Well, I'm a neophyte.
00:11:43.220 I'm green.
00:11:43.620 I don't know much about it.
00:11:44.320 I'm just learning.
00:11:45.000 So I met a couple of his friends.
00:11:47.560 They brought in a big gun.
00:11:49.120 I don't want to mention his name.
00:11:49.920 I don't want to give him publicity.
00:11:51.440 It's from Chicago.
00:11:52.280 He was a real estate guy from South Asia.
00:11:55.980 We'll leave it at that.
00:11:57.280 He walked in the church that I was in.
00:11:58.800 It was a Korean church.
00:11:59.940 He had like a folder, you know, binder.
00:12:02.380 I don't know what they call it.
00:12:03.180 But, you know, we don't have it anymore.
00:12:05.240 But he came in.
00:12:06.600 He opened it up.
00:12:08.020 You know, they have those rings, paper.
00:12:10.940 Yeah.
00:12:11.220 It was ready, man.
00:12:12.060 He had a combat kit.
00:12:13.020 It's called the combat.
00:12:13.560 Later on, I realized they call it the combat kit.
00:12:16.060 In fact, it was made famous by another Muslim debater named Ahmad Didat.
00:12:21.080 Ahmad Didat, who since deceased in 2005, he became famous when he debated Jimmy Swigert as the Bible God's word.
00:12:28.900 And from the Muslim perspective, Swigert got destroyed.
00:12:32.200 That made him international.
00:12:33.940 He's from South Africa.
00:12:34.760 If you look at it from a logical perspective, he didn't win.
00:12:39.280 But debates are not won on substance.
00:12:41.900 It's won on rhetoric, personality, and flesh.
00:12:46.140 And he's very charismatic.
00:12:47.540 He's another guy.
00:12:48.280 Jimmy Swigert did.
00:12:49.220 But he won.
00:12:50.020 If you look at just the facts, Swigert won.
00:12:53.360 But the rhetoric and the confidence of Didat.
00:12:55.460 He was a very huge fellow.
00:12:57.100 Right?
00:12:57.640 Just impressed and bedazzled the Muslims.
00:13:00.240 He was the biggest Muslim debater at that time.
00:13:02.940 The second big is Jamal Barri, who debated Gleason Archer.
00:13:05.240 But coming back to this guy, you'll find it here.
00:13:08.320 Didat, Ahmad Didat, Jimmy Swigert.
00:13:10.480 See?
00:13:12.640 These are some of the historic debates that are setting the ground for future apologists.
00:13:17.960 Some of the debates.
00:13:19.460 So this guy had a combat kit.
00:13:21.000 Because if you put an Ahmad Didat combat kit, he wrote books for Muslims to take.
00:13:26.280 Right?
00:13:26.660 There it goes.
00:13:27.540 See?
00:13:28.040 Against Bible thumpers.
00:13:29.940 This guy had his own combat kit.
00:13:31.620 Right?
00:13:32.060 That's so funny.
00:13:32.840 Yeah.
00:13:33.040 So what he did was, he had verses of Bible that contradict.
00:13:37.520 If it's God's word, then what about these contradictions?
00:13:39.980 Now, I'm green.
00:13:40.560 I don't know nothing.
00:13:41.680 I have no idea, brother.
00:13:42.700 I just came into faith.
00:13:43.880 Give me a break.
00:13:44.440 No.
00:13:44.720 He came.
00:13:45.600 This is one other reason people say, why are you so aggressive?
00:13:49.000 You know, you're very, like sometimes you can be very nasty.
00:13:51.880 And because I think what he did to me impacted me because he was very nasty to me.
00:13:58.880 And he bullied me.
00:14:00.640 And there's something about me that triggers me.
00:14:02.560 When I feel I'm bullied, right?
00:14:04.540 That's it.
00:14:05.040 Yep.
00:14:05.280 Ahmad Didat.
00:14:05.780 You know, you're very sincere.