Valuetainment - Spokesperson For 15,000 Pilots Reveals The Challenges In The Airline Industry

00:00:00.000 It's not just airflow over the wing

00:00:01.600 that makes the airplane fly.

00:00:03.080 It's money flow over the wing.

00:00:04.920 They've got to come together

00:00:06.180 and that can be success for everybody involved.

00:00:08.560 Yeah, I mean, listen, again, union spokesperson

00:00:11.200 who supports capitalism, gotta love it.

00:00:13.520 And we had boots on the ground,

00:00:15.920 knowledge that this virus was going like crazy over there.

00:00:20.760 And we did not want to be the vessel

00:00:22.880 that transmitted that virus back here into the US.

00:00:26.040 How tougher is it today for a person to do another 9-11?

00:00:34.000 They're trained to not react emotionally,

00:00:36.400 but they still have emotions.

00:00:38.160 And they're passionate about protecting

00:00:41.280 the passengers on the airplane.

00:00:42.880 Because without that, we don't have a business.

00:00:45.240 Not only because we have our bodies on that airplane too,

00:00:47.880 but you know, when you have your family traveling,

00:00:50.480 you hand them over to me, literally and metaphorically,

00:00:53.680 you're saying, this is my life treasure,

00:00:55.240 please take care of it.

00:01:00.320 My guest today is Captain Dennis Tager,

00:01:02.280 who is himself a pilot, 34 years,

00:01:05.280 I think six years with the Air Force,

00:01:07.080 29 years with American Airlines, like 34, 35 years.

00:01:10.880 He flies right now as a pilot.

00:01:12.640 And at the same time, he's also the spokesperson

00:01:15.080 for APA's Allied Pilots Association,

00:01:18.320 a union that represents 15,000 American Airlines pilots.

00:01:22.240 I believe it's the largest independent pilots union

00:01:25.280 in the world.

00:01:26.000 With that being said, Dennis, thank you so much

00:01:28.440 for being a guest on by attainment.

00:01:29.280 Oh, thank you.

00:01:30.280 It's an honor to be here and you nailed it.

00:01:33.080 That's exactly what we do and who we are.

00:01:35.280 Well, the audience does not, I did that 78 times.

00:01:37.560 So I appreciate you for being nice.

00:01:39.160 I'm just giving you a hard time.

00:01:40.120 Anyways, they say, I don't fear a man who knows 10,000 kicks.

00:01:44.280 I fear the man who knows one kick and practice it 10,000 times.

00:01:48.920 Yeah, that philosopher's name, what was it?

00:01:51.720 Bruce Lee, right?

00:01:52.460 He's a great philosopher.

00:01:53.660 Well done, philosopher.

00:01:56.720 And yeah, wow.

00:01:58.820 Well, I surrender.

00:02:00.840 I surrender to you because I have some questions.

00:02:05.780 I want your help to see.

00:02:08.060 I've seen you speak on what happened with Boeing a couple of years ago

00:02:11.360 when they didn't want to disclose all the information

00:02:14.020 and the challenges that we're facing.

00:02:15.260 I thought it was with the 747.

00:02:16.840 It was, I don't know if it was 737 or 747.

00:02:19.240 737 max.

00:02:20.120 737.

00:02:20.940 And then you kind of called them out directly in a respectful way

00:02:23.420 because you're saying, look, these are still good planes.

00:02:26.180 We trust flying and we put our families on there,

00:02:28.920 but you have to trust us on the information.

00:02:31.260 And then at the same time, I see you all the time on MSNBC

00:02:33.340 when you get up there and you talk about,

00:02:34.720 are Americans back flying, et cetera, et cetera.

00:02:36.700 So I have some questions.

00:02:38.900 I'll go through my series of questions.

00:02:41.020 And then anything else you feel about where we are today,

00:02:44.080 I think it's good for the audience to hear as well.

00:02:46.280 So why don't we start off with 18 months ago,

00:02:50.060 we are February of 2020, okay?

00:02:54.280 In February of 2020, we're still flying.

00:02:56.740 Things are normal.

00:02:58.280 March, April, May, you know,

00:03:00.080 we're getting a little bit more nervous.

00:03:01.580 Travel slows down.

00:03:03.040 Walk me through where we are today compared to six months ago,

00:03:07.240 compared to 12 months ago,

00:03:08.380 in regards to Americans feeling comfortable traveling again.

00:03:11.720 It's night and day.

00:03:14.800 Night being when things just shut down.

00:03:18.760 And now coming into that, we actually at the APA,

00:03:21.840 our president and our experts at the time in January,

00:03:25.220 well, we don't relish the idea of taking on legal action

00:03:29.220 on behalf of our membership against our company,

00:03:32.340 but they wanted to continue flying into China.

00:03:35.680 And we had boots on the ground knowledge that this virus was going like crazy over there.

00:03:43.480 And we did not want to be the vessel that transmitted that virus back here into the U.S.

00:03:48.600 So we very publicly, and I was on CNBC, said they've got to cease this flying.

00:03:55.140 And there were commercial interests involved.

00:03:57.020 We understand that.

00:03:58.800 They even disclosed, actually, in a New York Times article later,

00:04:01.940 American Airlines said, well, we thought China was just a blip.

00:04:04.740 Well, it wasn't a blip.

00:04:05.800 So this goes to our line.

00:04:07.920 They were on record saying that.

00:04:09.000 This goes to our core mission, as it would be as professional pilots,

00:04:13.700 is that we're going to put our passenger safety and security first,

00:04:18.200 no matter what the commercial interests are.

00:04:20.100 Because commercial interests will not survive unless you provide that in the aviation business.

00:04:24.540 So they did cease flying.

00:04:27.220 They fought us a bit.

00:04:27.980 They even started to bifurcate out Hong Kong a little, saying, well, it's a separate area.

00:04:32.440 It's not an island.

00:04:33.100 But long story short, yeah, we called them out.

00:04:36.080 And this is part of a safety culture I know you and I spoke of a little bit earlier.

00:04:39.300 But this is really important.

00:04:41.180 This radical transparency is so important,

00:04:44.840 especially when the consequences are so intense in flying.

00:04:49.520 So obviously, the virus started to spread rapidly.

00:04:53.960 And we saw a lot of good people, even from our leadership here in the U.S.

00:04:59.480 to the airlines trying to figure out, OK, how do we contain this?

00:05:03.100 What do we know about it?

00:05:04.680 And it's sadly, I say it ironically laughable.

00:05:08.980 Some of the things that we would have heard even from our medical experts at the company saying,

00:05:12.820 hey, this is just like the flu.

00:05:14.680 It doesn't spread easily.

00:05:17.760 It turns out they were wrong about that.

00:05:20.080 And we've learned many things about this virus.

00:05:23.360 But what we've landed on is that when we take on certain precautions, we can help mitigate that.

00:05:32.480 And I see you using the hand.

00:05:34.320 I'm so used to it.

00:05:34.900 I mean, I got it everywhere nowadays.

00:05:36.500 You said it, and my brain went right to it.

00:05:38.960 I hear you.

00:05:39.940 And I smile at that because...

00:05:41.300 You know, hypnotist.

00:05:42.200 You're hypnotizing me right now to say, wipe your hands.

00:05:45.660 That's its suggestive power.

00:05:47.440 So that being said, though, but, you know, that's interesting because that just exhibits

00:05:51.420 how natural it is for us now.

00:05:53.640 I don't like wearing the mask.

00:05:55.220 Of course, it's uncomfortable in the whole nine yards.

00:05:57.480 But, hey, those are the rules.

00:05:58.840 So that's what we do.

00:05:59.540 We did have to fight for a time to...

00:06:02.260 And I'd say to fight.

00:06:03.440 We had to compel our airlines to say, hey, look, this may be the best thing to do.

00:06:08.040 And even if you don't believe that the virus was that critical or that severe back then

00:06:14.140 or even today, the bottom line was it gave people some level of comfort that if I do

00:06:18.660 have to fly, this may help.

00:06:20.420 And it did.

00:06:21.180 And the airflow in the airplane, unlike the office and the home that I sit in and the

00:06:25.200 office you're in, that airflow is massive in there.

00:06:27.560 So those types of things that Boeing was talking about, our airlines were talking about, and

00:06:31.700 our government and President Trump were talking about, and the Department of Transportation,

00:06:35.800 that's the stakeholder culture that comes together and says, yeah, we had difference of opinion

00:06:40.040 here.

00:06:40.400 Now we've all learned something.

00:06:42.060 Where can we land at a consensus so that business and life can continue through this

00:06:47.840 struggle?

00:06:48.420 Not go back to the way we were during that time, but to just like your prior military,

00:06:53.340 I'm prior military.

00:06:54.400 What can we contain and maintain safe for our troops?

00:06:58.360 And that's what we did.

00:07:00.240 And we did it sometimes as a stakeholder who was yelling at the rooftop saying, no, this

00:07:04.720 is not right.

00:07:05.380 And here's why.

00:07:07.140 And we use always, we try to use, we try to emulate, I try to emulate, our union emulates

00:07:13.120 where our pilots are.

00:07:14.560 They're balanced men and women.

00:07:16.120 They're logical.

00:07:17.680 They're trained to not react emotionally, but they still have emotions.

00:07:21.680 And they're passionate about protecting the passengers on the airplane.

00:07:26.340 Because without that, we don't have a business.

00:07:28.920 Yeah.

00:07:29.480 So walk me through, you know, many of us heard about it.

00:07:32.840 We read about it, but we don't really know what it looks like.

00:07:36.300 It looks like.

00:07:36.920 So for example, you know, margins, profit margins and airlines, it's one of the lowest

00:07:42.200 out of all the industry.

00:07:43.200 So there's not a lot of money.

00:07:44.300 And everybody's kind of, we're cheaper, we're cheaper, we're cheaper.

00:07:46.280 So everyone's trying to figure out who to be, minus Spirit Airlines.

00:07:51.280 But for the most part, everybody's trying to figure out what they're going to be, what

00:07:53.720 game they're going to be playing.

00:07:55.160 So then Buffett comes out and he says, hey, I own 10 to 11% in Delta, American United.

00:08:00.660 I'm going to sell all of those shares.

00:08:02.180 And I was like, hey, if that guy sells, what's he saying to the world?

00:08:05.820 What does he know that the rest of us don't have, right?

00:08:08.620 How bad did it get at one point for pilots and flight attendants who don't have a job

00:08:14.560 and these airlines that are in the brink of bankruptcy?

00:08:19.380 What were pilots doing during that time who maybe didn't have money saved to be able to

00:08:25.380 survive that three, six, nine month period where there's not a lot of traffic?

00:08:28.840 Well, that's a great point.

00:08:31.440 And thank God our elected officials understood the importance of the infrastructure of the

00:08:36.060 airline business, because everybody knew that this was a crisis.

00:08:39.100 It hit us really hard.

00:08:40.140 At American, we had uniquely more debt than others because we had bought a bunch of airplanes

00:08:43.460 that we needed to buy.

00:08:44.420 Others would be buying them now and various infrastructure post-merger.

00:08:49.140 So we walked in with that.

00:08:51.240 Yeah, the margins are very tight, but the federal government identified and under President

00:08:56.040 Trump, and bipartisan this was, passed investment packages.

00:09:00.880 We call them investment because it was an investment in the employees so that they would

00:09:04.760 be there for the recovery.

00:09:06.100 And sure, there were some other loans that were written with some, I forget the term, but

00:09:11.420 basically a stock underwrite so that our taxpayer was accommodated for this loan.

00:09:16.100 So that saved the airline infrastructure, which is a huge foundation of our country's business

00:09:23.020 infrastructure.

00:09:24.320 So fortunately, we work closely with our management team.

00:09:28.080 And this is where there's a stereotype of unions.

00:09:30.100 Are they always battling management?

00:09:31.440 Man is doing the other thing.

00:09:32.520 It's all about cost.

00:09:33.760 Well, actually, no.

00:09:34.460 We look at it in a different way now.

00:09:36.320 It's a modernized union perspective.

00:09:39.580 It's sort of asymmetric.

00:09:40.800 We're as interested in the business being wildly successful as our management teams are.

00:09:44.880 We're investors in our very own airline.

00:09:47.440 So we understand it.

00:09:48.560 We don't look at it through the narrow, the straw of, hey, it's just labor.

00:09:52.960 Whatever I can get paid, I'll get paid.

00:09:55.080 We sign up for the, we stay, I'm here about 30 years.

00:09:59.240 And that's one place you go and you stay.

00:10:01.520 So when that happened, though, the federal government did step up, used our taxpayer money

00:10:05.920 to ensure that the airlines were ready to roll.

00:10:08.340 And they provided actually payroll support through this in a couple of cycles.

00:10:11.820 So that prevented thousands of pilots in particular from being laid off.

00:10:16.220 And as you know, from high training events, both in military and business, you can't just

00:10:20.800 say, hey, get back to work.

00:10:22.160 So that stopped that huge cycle of upswing training, it would have happened, which would

00:10:27.760 have muted this recovery this summer and would have probably bled into other businesses from

00:10:33.500 the hotel side to just the morale of the country.

00:10:36.020 Yeah, it's a private business, it's publicly held, but it's a symbol of the strength of our

00:10:42.100 country.

00:10:43.360 So what pilots did, we took some leaves, we took some of our pilots wanted, they have

00:10:47.460 businesses on the side or their spouse works.

00:10:50.140 They took about a 60% of their normal pay and said, I'll take a leave and I'll keep trained

00:10:57.020 up.

00:10:57.680 Other pilots took early retirements, a package was provided for them.

00:11:00.860 So they would get some benefits for a couple of years until the mandatory retirement.

00:11:04.920 So a lot of outside the box thinking was done to preserve and sustain the airline.

00:11:11.380 And when the federal government came in, that was the more than a lifeline, that was keeping

00:11:17.040 the infrastructure settled so that the summer came along.

00:11:19.840 And while we were challenged this summer uniquely at American, we would have been nowhere near

00:11:24.560 this recovery this summer if that had not been done.

00:11:27.240 So a long way to say a deep thank you to all involved.

00:11:34.120 And in order for our country to thrive, our businesses have to survive and thrive.

00:11:40.120 So that's what happened in this.

00:11:41.920 And now we're moving forward from that.

00:11:44.300 Yeah.

00:11:44.440 I don't know many spokesperson or spokespeople for unions who see it from your point of view.

00:11:51.260 It's always, let me gouge the business owner for as much as possible.

00:11:54.440 I don't care what it costs to get profits from him to get into the individuals, members

00:12:00.060 of the union.

00:12:00.800 So kudos to you because you seem very balanced and reasonable on both sides.

00:12:04.820 If you were a politician, you'd be a statesman that's fighting for both sides, realizing there's

00:12:09.020 numbers in it, but you also process it accordingly.

00:12:11.520 For the people that took a hit, the 60%, the early retirement or the flight attendant, what

00:12:17.900 percentage of the people that didn't retire came back, what percentage of people just

00:12:23.160 moved on to different industries, different jobs?

00:12:26.100 A very small amount.

00:12:27.000 Speaking to the pilots, we had a few pilots that went on to maybe work for a package carrier,

00:12:31.140 but we're talking single digit numbers.

00:12:33.040 So they came back.

00:12:34.940 I mean, it's a wonderful career.

00:12:37.780 You got to fight for it.

00:12:39.240 Just like any business, you fight for your interest, and you talked about this different

00:12:45.060 way of looking.

00:12:45.500 It's not just me.

00:12:46.200 It's our union.

00:12:46.860 I mean, 12 years ago, when I started getting involved in union business, I said, I think

00:12:51.120 we can do this a different way and had other partners in that.

00:12:53.900 And one of them was to reach out to the people who own the company, which are investors.

00:12:58.180 And so we reached out.

00:12:59.240 I literally had a cold call to a sell-side analyst and said, hey, I'm with the union.

00:13:05.120 I wanted to connect with you.

00:13:06.260 And these are analysts that write notes on the investment perspective.

00:13:10.000 They talk to the buy side, all the investment and institutional investors.

00:13:14.920 And it's at the heartbeat of what makes a business run, a publicly held one.

00:13:19.380 So we wanted to call them, not to rant at them about, hey, I'm a union guy, and here's

00:13:24.320 the deal.

00:13:24.960 We wanted to understand the business better and get their perspective.

00:13:28.840 And sometimes we use that to our advantage.

00:13:31.000 And most importantly, though, we have a saying at the union is, if you're not at the table,

00:13:35.700 you might be on the menu.

00:13:37.860 And that's one place we don't want to be.

00:13:40.260 So we always insist on being at the table.

00:13:43.420 And we don't yell to get at the table.

00:13:46.320 We find a way to be functional partners in this, rationally thinking.

00:13:51.360 And it paid off.

00:13:52.300 When American Airlines went into bankruptcy and another air carrier, US Air, their management

00:13:57.320 team, senior management team, wanted to come in and do a reconstruction plan, an exit

00:14:02.940 plan, and involved a merger, we were right there at the table.

00:14:06.300 As a matter of fact, the president of that airline, Scott Kirby, is now the CEO of United

00:14:11.680 Airlines, asked for a private meeting in New York, just like the movies.

00:14:15.860 I'm just a pilot.

00:14:17.460 And I don't own a business.

00:14:19.880 But it was just like you would imagine.

00:14:21.320 Let's meet.

00:14:22.000 And I went out with the president of the union at the time, met in a New York restaurant

00:14:26.380 in the back, and he pulled out an envelope to talk about his vision for a merger of the

00:14:32.180 two airlines while we were in bankruptcy.

00:14:35.180 And that was the beginning of the new American Airlines.

00:14:38.520 And it literally was a sit down with two leaders.

00:14:41.480 I was there as some of the expert in the knowledge of the networks.

00:14:44.700 And they talked about synergy.

00:14:46.240 They talked about here's how much money that we can add to whatever deal you get.

00:14:50.560 And I'm not afraid to talk about the details, because it was just like any other business

00:14:54.800 detail.

00:14:55.340 Here are the opportunities.

00:14:56.740 And here's what you would be the reward for it.

00:15:00.400 And just like any business deal, our president of the time said, well, why not double that?

00:15:04.480 And it turned out to be three times that.

00:15:06.240 Because the value of the deal with functional partners, and we went out and pitched it hard,

00:15:11.000 actually increased.

00:15:12.120 So it was, how many wins can you count?

00:15:15.080 It was a win-win-win.

00:15:16.160 Old equity got paid in full, unprecedented in a bankruptcy.

00:15:19.380 And I apologize if I digress.

00:15:21.980 But it's a very exciting part of the aviation business.

00:15:25.260 You know, it's not just airflow over the wing that makes the airplane fly.

00:15:28.780 It's money flow over the wing.

00:15:30.700 They've got to come together.

00:15:31.960 And that can be success for everybody involved.

00:15:34.260 It's not just a dream.

00:15:35.360 We saw it happen.

00:15:36.240 And we'll continue to push for it.

00:15:38.060 Yeah, that's very impressive to hear about that part as well.

00:15:41.640 There was a part that you were pretty competitive against other airlines.

00:15:45.440 I'm curious, is the world you're in a pretty competitive world?

00:15:49.420 Where you are protective of American Airlines?

00:15:51.760 Or is it more of a fraternity?

00:15:53.740 Where it doesn't matter if you're Delta, United, Southwest, we all work together as a fraternity.

00:15:59.020 What's your role like?

00:16:00.160 Because I'm assuming, like, you know how you're in Air Force.

00:16:01.860 I'm in Army, Marines, Navy.

00:16:03.840 We're typically, they put Marines and Army base next to each other.

00:16:06.800 Yes, we both are fighting for red, white, and blue.

00:16:09.160 But you're a Marine.

00:16:09.800 I'm Army.

00:16:10.220 I see you at the bar.

00:16:10.880 We're getting into a fistfight.

00:16:11.740 I don't see pilots getting into fistfights.

00:16:13.700 But is it a pretty competitive environment or no?

00:16:17.420 Oh, absolutely.

00:16:18.500 Oh, gosh, absolutely.

00:16:20.040 And your metaphor using the military is dead on.

00:16:23.120 I was going to go to that.

00:16:23.940 And while you described it, I said, you know, pick the NFL.

00:16:26.380 You know, look at those players.

00:16:27.180 They go out there and they battle.

00:16:28.900 They compete.

00:16:29.720 When the game's done, they go, hey, good to go.

00:16:31.720 I might see on my team later.

00:16:33.140 We don't change that much in the airline business.

00:16:35.080 But, oh, absolutely.

00:16:36.600 And, you know, let's be blunt about it.

00:16:38.120 It's more fun that way.

00:16:39.380 If you're not fighting for your company, then what the hell are you here for?

00:16:45.220 So, but it doesn't mean that, hey, I know that you're fighting for yours.

00:16:48.440 And we do.

00:16:48.880 We have meetings.

00:16:49.740 We talk with our union brothers and sisters.

00:16:51.420 And they go, hey, man, I was kind of rough on us over there.

00:16:53.980 I go, yeah, well, get your operation fixed and we'll roll.

00:16:57.040 But we also recognize that there is a ladder.

00:17:00.380 There's pattern bargaining for that.

00:17:02.100 And people talk about pattern bargaining or bargaining negotiating at a table.

00:17:05.700 Those are business deals.

00:17:07.100 That's all they are.

00:17:08.120 And they can enhance a relationship.

00:17:11.060 They develop trust.

00:17:13.180 And you live up to it.

00:17:14.680 So, it's fraternal in a sense.

00:17:17.840 And what we do, just like in the military, we're counting on each other.

00:17:21.540 We have each other's backs.

00:17:23.100 But even in business, you know, just because you may not have a major accident happen, this is someone's livelihood.

00:17:31.240 They're paying for their family's future in the whole nine yards.

00:17:34.080 So, knowing and identifying that and connecting to it, but still being a shrewd and firm businessman or woman, that's aviation.

00:17:44.420 I mean, we're not negotiating on a flight deck.

00:17:47.480 But we have a set agreement of procedures and protocol.

00:17:51.100 And there's a chain of command.

00:17:54.260 And there's leveraging of ideas.

00:17:56.380 But that's why I love the business.

00:18:00.320 I love everything about it.

00:18:01.940 It's very obvious.

00:18:02.720 I mean, your passion and your conviction is definitely felt, even through Zoom here, it's felt.

00:18:08.180 I'm an executive platinum myself with American Airlines.

00:18:10.780 I've flown with American Airlines.

00:18:12.180 Thank you.

00:18:12.600 Yeah, I'm an American airline guy.

00:18:14.980 I was with Delta before.

00:18:16.900 I was with United.

00:18:17.920 And I said, nope, I'm going American.

00:18:19.400 And I've stayed with American. 0.88

00:18:21.180 So, walk me through.

00:18:23.560 You know, like for me, I'm the paranoid guy.

00:18:25.880 I go to restaurants.

00:18:26.800 I look at people's nails.

00:18:27.860 I'm like, oh, my gosh.

00:18:28.700 He's not going to deliver my food for me.

00:18:30.480 I get up and walk out.

00:18:31.680 I'm that weird guy, right?

00:18:32.840 Like, if this guy has too much hair or let's just say too much sweat here, I can't have you carry my food.

00:18:39.100 I get a little bit nervous about it because of my wiring.

00:18:41.600 Now, you can call me a lot of different words.

00:18:44.040 A lot of different doctors can put categories on me.

00:18:46.220 They're probably all right.

00:18:47.240 But let's set that part aside.

00:18:49.020 How do I trust right now I'm a traveler and say I've had COVID before?

00:18:54.620 And I'm like, you know what? 0.97

00:18:55.540 Didn't kill me, but it sucks. 0.99

00:18:57.300 Flat out. 1.00

00:18:58.040 This thing sucks. 0.99

00:18:59.180 I had it myself earlier this year. 0.99

00:19:01.820 Wasn't fun, right?

00:19:04.360 As did I.

00:19:05.520 I also.

00:19:06.920 Okay.

00:19:07.460 So, for me, it wasn't the taste.

00:19:09.160 It wasn't the breathing.

00:19:09.940 For me, I lost 24 pounds within three weeks.

00:19:12.680 I couldn't eat anything.

00:19:13.600 I mean, it was a complete different game.

00:19:15.560 So, and I stayed positive for like four weeks.

00:19:17.920 Anyways, going back to it.

00:19:19.320 Somebody wants to travel.

00:19:20.320 They're like, look, I want to travel.

00:19:22.480 But what do you guys do in between flights for me to know that it's clean?

00:19:27.860 Don't get me wrong.

00:19:28.420 I'm going to bring my own wipe and I'm going to do my own thing.

00:19:30.340 But what is American Airlines instructed to do between flights for the new, you know,

00:19:36.640 passenger to come in and say, listen, this place is going to be clean.

00:19:39.080 Like, almost like switching a hotel room.

00:19:41.320 Somebody stays before you do.

00:19:43.320 What is the protocol you guys follow?

00:19:45.720 Well, and great question.

00:19:47.820 And by the way, welcome to the fraternity.

00:19:49.600 You have attention to detail.

00:19:51.160 I do the same thing.

00:19:52.040 And that's something that keeps us safe and on the flight deck as well.

00:19:55.340 And probably a very successful businessman, as I understand you are.

00:19:59.240 That being said, what can passengers count on?

00:20:01.940 Well, we've learned a lot about the virus, you know, at first.

00:20:04.440 And we still, American has a deep cleaning in between flights that it does.

00:20:09.440 And an even deeper one at night.

00:20:11.720 But we have learned about the virus.

00:20:13.460 You remember there was a time where, yes, we're sprained on everything.

00:20:16.380 And they still are.

00:20:17.660 And they run various lighting through the airplane.

00:20:19.800 But we've learned that the virus isn't as easy to pick up off of inanimate objects.

00:20:25.900 It doesn't mean they've stopped the behavior.

00:20:27.800 But the most important thing on the airplane is that airflow.

00:20:31.420 Is that airflow.

00:20:32.660 That airflow changes over.

00:20:34.460 And I've lost the memory of how many times per hour or minute.

00:20:39.180 But it's extraordinary.

00:20:40.460 It's at least 10 times more than your office.

00:20:42.740 And we're in charge of that.

00:20:43.980 We have the APU.

00:20:44.880 That's the amount of air going through while you're on the ground or while the engines are running.

00:20:49.460 So it's a massive flow.

00:20:50.820 Your hair may not be blowing around.

00:20:52.400 But I can assure you that that airflow is happening like this.

00:20:55.960 So that is actually near the level of the filters we have on the recirculating part are at the same level, the HEPA level of a surgery room.

00:21:05.980 And we're just lucky that it was designed that way originally.

00:21:08.980 So the irony is the airplane is actually one of the safer places to be around a group of people.

00:21:15.520 So, but, you know, we didn't take that as a, hey, so we don't need masks.

00:21:19.320 That was part of the protocol.

00:21:21.200 If it wasn't just something else made someone feel more comfortable, it actually worked.

00:21:25.180 You can debate that all day long.

00:21:26.460 But when we started that, people started to fly and come back and they didn't have one case that they could trace back to, oh, there was a massive spread on an airplane.

00:21:37.140 And believe me, we were holding our breath on that, no pun intended, about please let this not happen on this airplane.

00:21:43.900 Because I was out there flying, I remember going out to New York and we had like four or five people, ended up talking with them, a couple doctors and some nurses going out there to do their work.

00:21:54.360 Walking through the airport when it was empty, I remember walking through Miami doing a piece with ABC saying, very uncomfortable.

00:22:01.280 And now I have to wait in line for a Starbucks.

00:22:06.240 Thank you.

00:22:07.520 It's, it's, it's night and day.

00:22:09.620 So, so the bottom line, your, your awareness of your surroundings and what's being done is important because we want to assure, especially passengers, customers like yourself and executive that we've got your back on this.

00:22:24.640 And, uh, as pilots, uh, we're watching that too.

00:22:28.260 We don't just get through the cockpit door and go, okay, that's all we're in charge of.

00:22:31.460 We're making sure that, okay, it was the airplane taken care of.

00:22:34.200 Hey, it just came in from a Caribbean destination.

00:22:36.940 Did it get its full cleaning and our flight attendants as well?

00:22:40.120 So, um, not only because we have our bodies on that airplane too, but you know, when you, when you have your family traveling, you hand them over to me literally and metaphorically, you're saying, this is my life treasure.

00:22:50.980 Please take care of it.

00:22:51.980 And I have kids who can damn sure bet that I'm going to do everything in my power.

00:22:57.040 And not just from a commercial sense, but from the, the, uh, moral and, and, uh, professional obligation I have as a pilot, the wings that are on my chest are not just there for optics.

00:23:07.680 They're, they're tattooed on everything we do.

00:23:10.780 When's your birthday, by the way, I have a guess of what month your birthday is.

00:23:14.020 And I'm just curious, when is your birthday?

00:23:15.960 Are we exchanging gifts?

00:23:17.060 Okay.

00:23:17.420 It is a December 28th.

00:23:19.700 You're a Capricorn.

00:23:20.660 Interesting.

00:23:21.320 I am.

00:23:21.740 Well, and I, I wish I could have a deeper conversation with what that means.

00:23:27.460 I, I, I, I'm intrigued though.

00:23:28.580 I, I, I feel compelled to ask what's your sign, but that could get weird.

00:23:36.460 So, but, uh.

00:23:38.460 It's my weird math side that I try to see if there's any connections between personalities of, you know, how the individual is organized, systematic, you know, detail or a little bit more personality, not paying attention to details.

00:23:54.000 So, anyway, that's just my whole thing.

00:23:55.200 Well, you know what?

00:23:55.980 I've been, I've been accused of being a deeply seated Capricorn.

00:23:59.040 So I know what that means.

00:24:00.180 And, uh, I'll embrace that.

00:24:02.420 If it kept me alive, that's great.

00:24:03.960 If it, uh, you know, made for a boring night, I'm sorry.

00:24:06.580 But, uh, I, I think I would want to have you as a pilot and I'm okay with that.

00:24:10.480 So you, you Capricorn pilot.

00:24:12.140 By the way, I, I did get furloughed from American airlines in the nineties, get a year on and it happened back in the day.

00:24:17.800 Uh, you know, cycles happen.

00:24:19.700 Um, and, um, I, I'm a school teacher by education.

00:24:23.560 Um, and I taught in the air force, of course, flying.

00:24:25.740 Uh, but, um, uh, I taught for three years as a high school, junior high school, uh, math teacher until flying came back around.

00:24:32.160 So, uh, um, yeah, numbers, uh, but numbers that connect to human beings.

00:24:37.740 And just like you referenced this, the Boeing 737 max, uh, those tragedies, those two aircraft and the reasons that it happened, connecting that story, um, first as pilots, we wanted to process it.

00:24:50.020 Why didn't you tell us this was on the airplane and all, all the things that many people are aware of, but being able to tell that story in a way that, that, um, someone couldn't come along like Boeing say, Oh, it's very complicated.

00:25:00.460 There's a lot of issues.

00:25:01.440 It's not that complicated.

00:25:02.680 Let me explain.

00:25:03.460 So the airplane has this, it does that.

00:25:05.160 And here's why.

00:25:05.680 And we didn't know about it.

00:25:06.600 That important connection with other human beings to say, yeah, it looks like a magical thing.

00:25:13.600 This pilot, all these knobs and all that, but we can get it down to it's, it's pretty basic here.

00:25:18.620 Um, so, um, that the trait as it is in any business, your ability to convey what you do or what your product is or how this can enhance, uh, what your business is doing, um, is, is, is key.

00:25:32.660 I mean, it's communication.

00:25:33.820 It's relationships.

00:25:34.900 I totally agree.

00:25:35.740 I agree with that.

00:25:36.600 Uh, going back to a couple of things in regards to, uh, uh, travel with, uh, where we currently are.

00:25:44.160 So, uh, uh, I saw a survey the other day on CNN, it said 63% of Americans believe, uh, uh, vaccination, uh, passports ought to be mandated, right?

00:25:54.820 Travel.

00:25:55.200 Now I'm not asking your opinion on that.

00:25:56.840 What I'm asking you is, is there anything you have as being the spokesperson of a union, 15,000 members, where it is leading towards a direction where we're probably going to see all the major airlines wanting to see a passport when we get on a flight?

00:26:11.560 Or you're saying, I don't know if that's going to happen.

00:26:14.660 Well, we're reviewing the news changes all the time, particularly what we're focused on is our, our, we have some airlines, I think United said all employees have to get vaccinated.

00:26:22.160 And we, we have some 65% of our pilots are vaccinated.

00:26:26.080 I'm vaccinated.

00:26:26.840 I happen to believe it worked for my family, but we have affirmed that it's, we believe it's a personal choice.

00:26:31.360 And our CEO, Doug Parker, even affirmed that the other day saying that, look, we, we, we haven't, we actually have a letter of agreement that will, will compensate you for getting the shot or get you off the flying after you, when you recover from the shot, there's 48 hours of pilots.

00:26:46.340 So, um, that's where we are at American as far as our passengers and what they're going to need to travel.

00:26:51.140 You know, we just want to make sure they're safe.

00:26:53.220 We just actually had news.

00:26:54.680 There's a smaller country down in South America.

00:26:56.540 The name escapes me who just the other day said, starting on X date crew members coming in, we'll have to be vaccinated.

00:27:02.080 So now we're going through the, uh, those pilots who have those trips at the moment, uh, being pulled off those trips if they're not vaccinated.

00:27:08.980 So, um, you know, it's a, it's a new space, um, but we can't forget who we are, regardless of your opinion.

00:27:15.220 And as a union, we represent, uh, the 14 to 15,000 pilots.

00:27:20.020 Each of them, uh, have a personal choice on the vaccine.

00:27:23.420 And, um, our job is to advocate for whether you want to get it or you choose to make that decision otherwise, um, and ensure it's terms of employment.

00:27:32.440 Um, and you have to talk with the union about how that would be executed.

00:27:35.660 So as far as passengers go, you know, I'm going to speak from a business side.

00:27:38.980 Anything that gets people to fly and they want to fly and they feel safe, let it roll.

00:27:43.480 That is not an affirmation of a vaccine passport, but we want people to feel safe and comfortable traveling.

00:27:50.620 And, um, um, you know, whatever ideas are out there, we're going to, of course, process them.

00:27:55.240 But, uh, you know, we may have an opinion on them or not on that one.

00:27:58.720 We're just going to let the folks that have the authority to, to run through it.

00:28:02.800 But, you know, business ain't easy.

00:28:05.280 Anybody who thinks that, you know, run a business.

00:28:07.600 And it might be, if you're just making something that doesn't involve people, but everything we make involves people.

00:28:13.520 So welcome to the NFL.

00:28:15.380 Yeah.

00:28:15.560 No, no, no question about that.

00:28:17.140 Maybe even bigger than the NFL because you guys are, you don't play 16 games.

00:28:20.900 You you're playing, uh, uh, hundreds of games on a daily basis.

00:28:24.680 So it's a complete different, uh, world.

00:28:27.020 You're only asked because I wonder, you know, I mean, no matter what you choose, you're going to piss off an audience, right?

00:28:32.420 You're going to be like, well, we're going to do this.

00:28:33.800 We're going to, well, we're not going to do, why don't you be responsible to get everybody vaccinated?

00:28:37.240 Why are you doing it?

00:28:37.840 Let me kind of choose my own stuff.

00:28:39.220 So, uh, that's the challenge of being a capitalist running a business.

00:28:43.360 You got to make the decision.

00:28:45.020 And at the same time, leave the freedom.

00:28:46.400 But sometimes the government may come in and say, Hey, you guys got it.

00:28:48.840 What was the story with Delta saying 300, $300 per employee.

00:28:52.800 That's not vaccinated because it's costing them $5,500 of hospitals.

00:28:56.900 Some number like that.

00:28:58.140 I know.

00:29:00.340 I, I, I know we, we saw that up to 200 or 300 more per month for their medical.

00:29:05.100 If they're not vaccinated, uh, that's the Delta choice, um, you know, to, to, to maybe fight the Delta variant. 0.81

00:29:11.060 I know they don't like to align those things, but Hey, the alphabet's the alphabet, but, uh, um, that's not being talked of at American airlines.

00:29:18.740 Um, you know, so, uh, uh, sometimes out of, outside the box thinking, um, well, we'll this, they'll make their choice, but that, you know, that is, that is the challenge in this.

00:29:29.060 And yeah, you know, you know, the, the sign of any good deal is when both sides feel like they didn't get just a perfect deal.

00:29:35.420 Right.

00:29:36.300 Um, and, and, uh, it's, it's very, it's very emotional.

00:29:41.080 It should be, this is about our lives.

00:29:43.000 It's not just about business.

00:29:44.300 And, um, it's, it's, you know, there's one thing saying, Oh, I respect both sides.

00:29:48.740 But now show me that you respect both sides.

00:29:51.220 That's the key.

00:29:52.480 Yeah, it's tough.

00:29:53.240 It's tough because I see that.

00:29:54.780 I'm like, well, that's kind of weird to set that up when it comes down to, uh, uh, career wise, like a choice of, do you know the margins of airlines?

00:30:05.260 I hear three and a half percent.

00:30:07.100 Do you know what the margins are?

00:30:08.760 Like what kind of money they're making?

00:30:09.980 Because the numbers seem very small, almost like minuscule profits.

00:30:13.920 These airlines are making.

00:30:14.840 Oh, yeah.

00:30:16.220 I mean, the, the, the, uh, pre-tax profit margin is, is very, very thin.

00:30:20.780 Um, it's a very cashflow intensive, uh, um, uh, business enterprise, no doubt about it.

00:30:26.460 Um, but I mean, now I think we might hit some positive, uh, pre-tax margins here in the third quarter.

00:30:31.540 You know, the Delta variant didn't help, but it's been negative for years, but even in the best of times, they're in the upper single digits, low double digits.

00:30:39.420 Um, and they're bragging on it.

00:30:41.380 So, you know, when we went through this merger and it was like the last major merger, more or less, they talked about rationalizing the space and a re-rate on the space, you know, talking with investors and all.

00:30:52.420 Um, and, and that's not a pipe dream.

00:30:54.940 It's certainly more stable, a little more like rail, but not like it at all.

00:30:58.660 It's a, it's a, uh, uh, a pretty dynamic space to be invested.

00:31:03.180 As you mentioned, Warren Buffett, you know, years ago, he said, uh, I forget the quip.

00:31:07.980 It was very funny.

00:31:09.260 It's not, how do you make a million dollars?

00:31:11.680 And there was something to do about vesting in airlines and was the opposite of what you think, but it's, um, it's a tough space.

00:31:17.340 Um, and it's a narrow margin, but it does have levels of profitability.

00:31:22.400 I mean, American on a, on a loan, forget the port portional basis was five to $6 billion of pre-tax profits.

00:31:28.860 So, um, and if you look at the brand and the value of the brand and you wonder, okay, that's a pretty narrow, uh, margin, let's say forget the raw dollars.

00:31:36.660 If you look at the value of the brand, when they went through, when we went through this darkest of time, all the airlines started trying to generate private capital, uh, loans for their, uh, frequent flyer mile program.

00:31:48.180 And they did billions of dollars, 18 billion on American airlines.

00:31:52.000 And then they went a step further in an area that I don't understand, although we've spoken with the experts who actually formulate these deals of actually generating capital, uh, loans off of your brand.

00:32:02.800 Uh, that may be your space, but I don't understand that.

00:32:05.540 You know, I'm more of a touch feel, uh, sort of a guy, but, uh, you can generate how many billion dollars just on your brand.

00:32:11.860 That's important to us because your brand is us.

00:32:14.660 Your brand is what we do for people safely carrying them, making you want to be an executive, uh, a platinum member at American airlines.

00:32:23.140 So, um, they all connect.

00:32:25.460 If you just open your mind, whether it be as an employee, a pilot, a union or a business partner to what is important to your success, I can influence that.

00:32:36.020 Um, you know, I, I can't make you do something, but I can make you wish you did.

00:32:41.080 That's not a threat.

00:32:42.720 That's a, help me help you plea.

00:32:45.060 That makes sense.

00:32:46.060 That makes sense.

00:32:46.720 I have two other questions for you before we wrap up.

00:32:48.400 One of them is, uh, in regards to nine 11, cause I knew you've spoken about that before, but I'll come back to that here in a minute to wrap up the interview with, uh, uh, private jets.

00:32:57.900 I, uh, uh, chartered, uh, you know, uh, last couple of weeks, I went all over the place, four different flights and I'm going back and forth.

00:33:04.520 And I've talked to one of the guys who bought this plane, you'd have a million dollars and he was a hedge fund guy from Greenwich.

00:33:09.820 He said, he ends up buying this.

00:33:10.980 I said, so tell me how business is like, said, listen, I'm not going to lie to you.

00:33:14.880 We need more jets right now because we are so swamped.

00:33:18.260 Right.

00:33:18.980 Okay.

00:33:19.880 So that business is taking off right now because some people, if they can afford it, they'd much rather spend the money to have to fly, uh, uh, uh, you know, private, then have to fly commercial.

00:33:30.560 Get it.

00:33:30.880 Is that going to affect your business dramatically?

00:33:32.520 Obviously not.

00:33:33.720 I'm looking at the TSA.

00:33:34.780 The numbers are like 1.662 as of yesterday versus 1.943, 300,000, uh, down.

00:33:41.380 It's maybe a 15% number.

00:33:43.000 And if we look at the day before 2 million, 25,000 travelers on September 6th, last year, same, uh, 2019, September, uh, six was 2.292.

00:33:53.620 So it's only like a 200,000 again, 10%, 9%.

00:33:56.780 So what, what do you see happening to the private jet charter business?

00:34:02.520 Will that affect anything with the commercial side?

00:34:05.200 And if not, what do you see happening in the middle?

00:34:08.980 Is there something going to the middle?

00:34:10.620 Because it's like, it almost looks like travel is you either buy a, I don't know.

00:34:15.840 You either buy a, you know, a, uh, uh, $40,000 sedan.

00:34:21.000 And then it goes, boom, Ferrari.

00:34:23.340 Like they're in the, in the travel world, there's not, yeah, you can say first class, fine, AMG, but there's not like you go from 40 to, you know, $120,000 or $180,000.

00:34:35.320 Do you guys see something as a competitor coming up that's in the middle between you and charter?

00:34:42.480 That'd be nice.

00:34:43.580 I mean, that's, that's management's marketing, uh, skills.

00:34:46.620 And, and we watch that because you talked about those passenger numbers and we're elated to see that there's another side of it as a business, uh, professional, you know, there's yield.

00:34:55.440 What are you able to charge for those tickets?

00:34:57.360 You know, what's the demand like?

00:34:58.740 And, and, and that's really what's crushing is still holding back the earnings is, is that ability to charge just the right amount for the ticket.

00:35:06.520 But, uh, um, where's that middle ground?

00:35:09.100 That's something that, that even working with our flight attendants, because it's the quality of the product.

00:35:13.420 And you're right.

00:35:14.080 All right.

00:35:14.460 I'm in this beautiful first class seat on this very long flight.

00:35:18.060 Uh, what else is it providing me versus the amount of money it costs me?

00:35:21.860 So, you know, that is going to be a challenge.

00:35:23.680 And, you know, our corporate pilots, we know that, uh, uh, the net jet guys, we work, they have a union there too, uh, is part of a subsidiary of Warren Buffett's, uh, uh, holdings.

00:35:33.540 Um, so we talk with them, we know their clientele and what they're looking for is fractional ownership, or as you discussed it.

00:35:40.220 Um, but I, I think we want that business to grow.

00:35:43.400 If that business grows, that means people who make a very healthy sum of money are able to support that need that they have.

00:35:51.120 And that just feeds into the pilot profession, more jets flying.

00:35:55.960 And that's something we want to see happen.

00:35:58.240 Do we want, do we not want those folks on our airplane? 0.96

00:36:00.980 No, we want them on airplane too.

00:36:02.420 But there's got to be a common ground that's met and it's going to be met by the supply and the demand.

00:36:09.760 And, uh, you know, there's, there's one thing that's for certain.

00:36:12.620 If people don't have the money to spend on flying, they won't fly.

00:36:15.960 If they don't want to fly, I can't fly.

00:36:18.160 Whether it's at the top CEO that buys an, uh, you know, multi-million dollar jet so that he or she can go wherever they need to go on their team.

00:36:26.280 And that pilot's flying it.

00:36:27.860 That's another one of us up there.

00:36:29.280 So, um, we want to be supportive of that.

00:36:32.340 And, uh, you know, I'll be blunt.

00:36:34.440 The wealthier people are, the better it is because they can take on those other, uh, uh, prospects.

00:36:41.120 And on the commercial, uh, side, those businesses are flourishing and growing.

00:36:46.200 They're going to have people that will fly on us that need to fly on us, even in those first class seats.

00:36:51.280 So bring it on success, business success leads to business flying.

00:36:55.740 And that leads to our success.

00:36:57.140 The business traveler is the most profitable side for us.

00:37:00.800 And leisure has gotten us through this domestic side right here.

00:37:03.760 But man, oh man, you've got to accommodate that business traveler and, and lure them in not only with words, but with real value.

00:37:12.820 And we're part of that.

00:37:14.080 And we're proud to be that part.

00:37:15.840 Yeah.

00:37:16.000 I mean, listen again, union spokesperson who supports capitalism.

00:37:19.760 Gotta love it too.

00:37:20.960 Says, let the wealthy get wealthier so we can keep getting more business.

00:37:25.120 Cause you, you feel it on your end.

00:37:26.580 Let's talk about nine 11.

00:37:27.940 I started working on Morgan Stanley Dean Witter a day before nine 11.

00:37:32.080 My first day was nine 10.

00:37:33.280 It was a Monday.

00:37:33.920 So my 20 year anniversary is coming up in the next, what is today?

00:37:38.120 Eighth and two days, right?

00:37:39.200 Two days.

00:37:39.620 It'll be 20 years that I've been in the financial industry.

00:37:42.360 They want everything is good.

00:37:44.360 Day two, Tuesday morning, 630, California Pacific standard time.

00:37:47.840 First plane.

00:37:48.980 Then we saw second plane hit live.

00:37:50.400 It was Morgan Stanley Dean Witter's headquarters, 3,600 employees in World Trade Center, a complete, obviously, travesty that took place.

00:37:59.800 Fast forward to today.

00:38:01.260 I got the question.

00:38:02.260 I'd like you to unpack this.

00:38:03.520 And I think you can probably give the technical aspect of this.

00:38:05.920 On the one end is, so Afghanistan and what just happened right now with the Taliban and Afghanistan, 75,000, I don't need to tell you the numbers.

00:38:13.540 You know, the numbers, $83 billion of equipment left there.

00:38:15.900 Some of the stuff we deactivated so they don't have access to, but it's not a lot of it.

00:38:20.040 They got plenty of stuff, right?

00:38:21.420 And they're getting stronger.

00:38:22.380 It becomes a recruiting center for them.

00:38:23.860 Many experts you'll talk to, they say the chances of another attack increased.

00:38:29.780 These are folks who are military.

00:38:31.860 You know, they're saying, well, we have to be careful.

00:38:33.620 We have to play from the standpoint of paranoia.

00:38:36.280 One, from your perspective, how much, how tougher is it today for a person to do another 9-11 based on, we all know, I think TSA came out in November of 2001, is when President Bush, two months later, started TSA.

00:38:57.960 We didn't have TSA before November.

00:38:59.420 I don't know the exact dates, but I think it was November of 2001.

00:39:02.320 And then everything changed.

00:39:03.620 Product data security was faster, et cetera, et cetera.

00:39:06.340 How much more confident are you that an event like that cannot happen?

00:39:10.160 And how strict is the training today to increase the level of awareness to make sure there's the chances of that ever happening to it is like zero to none?

00:39:20.320 Two questions for you.

00:39:21.480 I'm curious to hear your thoughts.

00:39:23.160 Great questions.

00:39:23.980 And it's not paranoia if there's a threat out there.

00:39:26.660 So not to awfulize it, but as pilots, we're always thinking about the next engine failure and not like I hope it doesn't happen.

00:39:33.200 It's when it happens, here's what we're going to do.

00:39:35.560 So that the startle effect, the shock and awe is not there.

00:39:39.700 You know, and you mentioned 9-11.

00:39:41.700 I'm wearing a pin here, which is the 20th commemoration from our union on it.

00:39:45.780 Our union is very involved in that, of course.

00:39:47.460 We lost, you know, brothers and sisters in that.

00:39:49.780 And our country was ripped apart.

00:39:51.200 The globe was ripped apart.

00:39:52.200 So as far as that happening again, I'm confident that there are barriers to prevent it as much as possible.

00:40:00.040 But you always strive for perfection.

00:40:03.300 You know, we strive for never a crash again on any airplane, knowing that at some point it's probably going to happen.

00:40:08.740 But you go for perfection.

00:40:10.420 And so you get to a point that's really hitting at the heartbeat of something on this 20th anniversary.

00:40:14.740 And my heart goes out to you because your fellow workers, just like mine, were murdered on that day.

00:40:19.400 And that could have been you in that building.

00:40:21.760 It's just a question of geography.

00:40:23.460 So it hits at us hard.

00:40:25.680 But one of the areas that has enraged us, and fortunately we have bipartisan bill right now,

00:40:31.420 that provides for a second barrier prior to the cockpit door.

00:40:36.340 That cockpit door is good.

00:40:38.360 It has been.

00:40:39.840 George Bush, our president, made sure that door is reinforced.

00:40:43.640 We have procedures.

00:40:44.720 Of course, we have federal air marshals on airplanes. 0.57

00:40:47.040 We have pilots who are armed on the aircraft.

00:40:50.880 The door, we have procedures.

00:40:52.440 I can't get into all the procedures, but it's a whole different way at looking at aircraft security.

00:40:57.980 And it doesn't take a genius to figure out that at all costs you protect that aircraft

00:41:01.580 because we will not turn this airplane into a weapon.

00:41:05.660 So that legislation I mentioned is for second barriers.

00:41:09.320 To think that 20 years after 9-11, we're talking about getting a second barrier.

00:41:14.460 And what it's for is to ensure that there's one more barrier in front of that door.

00:41:18.740 That's a good door.

00:41:19.760 But you see, we have physiological breaks.

00:41:22.060 No mystery or secret to anybody on a long flight.

00:41:25.300 We do have to come out once in a while.

00:41:27.260 We're very structured in that.

00:41:29.060 But we need that barrier to provide one more bit of time for us.

00:41:32.820 Because, you know, seconds matter.

00:41:34.380 If someone was to approach that door, whether it be an unruly passenger who just wasn't well,

00:41:39.320 or someone who had nefarious intent and it was a plot and there were other people,

00:41:42.900 this is not meant to scare you.

00:41:44.260 This is meant to let you know that we're thinking about this every minute of every flight.

00:41:48.880 And when we get a call about a disturbance in the back,

00:41:51.380 my brain immediately goes to who wants to do harm beyond just that area.

00:41:56.580 And is this something bigger and grander?

00:41:59.220 And it's the saying, if you see something, say something.

00:42:01.580 If we hear something, we start thinking that way.

00:42:05.100 It's not paranoia if the potential threat's there.

00:42:08.600 It's just like anything else.

00:42:10.100 You want your police officers and or your military to be ready to protect you and to

00:42:15.540 think the worst case scenario until they deescalate and realize, okay, you're secure.

00:42:19.860 That's the passion that we have.

00:42:21.660 And we need the rest of Congress to step up and support this bill and get it through so

00:42:29.000 that I'm not sitting here 20 years from now or my daughter who's in flying talking about

00:42:34.540 how we're still trying to get this through.

00:42:36.200 And unfortunately, one of the adversaries of this original legislation some time ago that

00:42:41.200 watered it down to being only new, new airplanes, and not one airplane has this barrier on it right

00:42:47.220 now, unfortunately, was our airlines as a lobby group and aircraft manufacturers citing

00:42:53.220 that the cost of it.

00:42:54.400 Well, I tell you, the cost of this system, which is not very complex, but is very effective,

00:43:00.480 is about the cost of a seat back entertainment center that someone's staring at.

00:43:04.880 So you can't afford to not do this.

00:43:08.960 It's about not only protecting my passengers, my airline, but my country and the globe.

00:43:17.900 Get it done and get moving.

00:43:20.240 We're ready.

00:43:21.120 Now back us up.

00:43:22.300 You need to have our back on this.

00:43:24.080 What would this do again?

00:43:25.060 What it is, is you have the flight deck door.

00:43:28.900 This would be another barrier prior to the door that could be opened and closed.

00:43:34.240 And what it does, one of the primary things on it, of course, it provides a level of protection

00:43:38.360 even if that door is closed, right?

00:43:40.460 Because some of our most effective defenders of the flight deck are my fellow passengers.

00:43:47.840 You've seen those stories even after 9-11.

00:43:49.660 I mean, I flew, I was laying over in Albany, New York during 9-11, watching the second crash,

00:43:54.160 thinking, what is happening here?

00:43:57.380 So, and getting on the airplane right after that with passengers who looked at me, not just

00:44:02.000 eye to eye, but soul to soul.

00:44:03.420 We good, Captain?

00:44:04.520 Yes, we are.

00:44:05.580 Counting on you.

00:44:06.540 Yes, we are.

00:44:07.160 We're good to go.

00:44:08.080 But that gives us some time with that door closed.

00:44:10.720 When we take physiological breaks, there's a short moment of time that that door is open.

00:44:14.840 This would provide another layer of barrier.

00:44:17.100 And you know, anybody who flies sees that there's levels of barriers.

00:44:19.960 We have people, we have other things there that slow that down.

00:44:23.420 But why wouldn't you, for the small price that it is, buy me another 30 seconds, another

00:44:28.860 minute?

00:44:29.820 And it just makes no sense.

00:44:32.080 And maybe just people fell asleep.

00:44:34.560 But you know what?

00:44:35.040 They're awake now.

00:44:36.000 We have bipartisan support on it.

00:44:37.960 So it's sad that on the 20th anniversary, I have to even talk about this.

00:44:42.480 But out of respect for those we lost, and the men and women that fought terrorism and

00:44:47.260 continue to fight it across the globe, we owe it to them.

00:44:50.380 We owe it to them and their kids to get this done today.

00:44:54.020 Not in 20 years, but get it done in 20 minutes now.

00:44:57.600 Captain Tager, is there a place to see this bill or no?

00:45:00.120 If somebody wants to learn more about this bill, what would they read about it?

00:45:03.180 Well, thank you.

00:45:04.140 You can go to the public site of APA, which is alliedpilots.org, alliedpilots.org.

00:45:12.760 And we actually have, thanks for bringing that up, because they'll be led right to a picture

00:45:16.980 of a young man who's a pilot for us.

00:45:19.200 And that's Tom McGinnis Jr.

00:45:20.740 His dad was killed on 9-11 on one of the aircraft.

00:45:24.240 He was the first pilot that American Airlines hired after the 9-11 lull in hiring.

00:45:28.680 And they did it intentionally and purposely.

00:45:30.600 And I know Tom, he's based in Chicago.

00:45:33.180 Matter of fact, I think I have a flight scheduled with him later in the month.

00:45:36.820 A good man.

00:45:37.780 And he was generous enough to do a one-minute interview speech, just basically say, get this

00:45:45.300 for us.

00:45:46.940 And he's a much younger man than me, but a role model to me.

00:45:51.480 I don't know that I could have done that if I had lost my dad.

00:45:53.880 I might go into a more closed position.

00:45:56.580 But it's real.

00:45:58.540 It's connected to people.

00:45:59.460 And you have a connection to it.

00:46:00.880 And everybody listening probably has some layer of connection to it.

00:46:04.840 So it's our history.

00:46:05.860 We don't run from it.

00:46:06.880 We don't forget.

00:46:07.840 But we make a solemn promise to never again.

00:46:10.200 And we do that together, regardless of countries or political affiliation.

00:46:14.160 And, you know, I'm sorry to go into a rant.

00:46:17.000 No, no, no.

00:46:17.540 I'm listening.

00:46:18.380 I told you off camera.

00:46:20.080 I watch a handful of your interviews.

00:46:22.260 And when I see you, the way, you know, truth cuts through everything, you cut through everything.

00:46:27.380 And there is no one side or the other.

00:46:30.600 You're straightforward.

00:46:32.080 And nobody feels like you're taking a side.

00:46:34.900 And I applaud you for that.

00:46:37.000 We need more leaders like you who deliver their message in the manner that you do because it allows us to sit there and decipher through the BS that's out there and say, look, this makes sense.

00:46:46.140 I think this makes sense.

00:46:46.940 I think this makes sense.

00:46:47.760 I don't know about this.

00:46:48.400 I think this is right.

00:46:49.080 So we're going to put the I'm on the website right now, alliedpilots.org.

00:46:52.920 We're going to put the link below, both in the description and the comment section for folks to be able to find it.

00:46:57.860 Captain Dennis Tager, I got to tell you, I had a blast having you on today.

00:47:01.620 This is an entrepreneur channel.

00:47:03.080 And I know we talked about that briefly off camera.

00:47:05.960 But entrepreneurs travel a lot.

00:47:07.940 And they wanted this is a big part of their lives.

00:47:09.820 We spend a lot of time on planes.

00:47:11.240 We spend a lot of times going to places.

00:47:13.240 And it's very important for us to know that the direction of your industry is going.

00:47:18.400 And you gave us a lot of insight.

00:47:19.580 I appreciate you for it.

00:47:21.180 It's been an honor.

00:47:21.980 Thank you.

00:47:22.320 Anytime again, call on call on us and we'll be there.

00:47:25.220 Appreciate it.

00:47:25.900 It definitely won't be the last time.

00:47:27.120 Thank you.

00:47:28.220 Take care, sir.

00:47:28.960 Take care.

00:47:29.720 I don't know about you, but I learned a lot about what's going on today in travel.

00:47:33.340 And I'm probably going to end up having him back because I really enjoyed the way Captain Dennis Tager processes issues.

00:47:39.680 So any event that comes up, we're definitely going to bring him back.

00:47:41.760 If you liked it, smash thumbs up.

00:47:43.680 I got one other video that I think you're going to enjoy.

00:47:45.820 It's a video I did maybe five, six years ago titled 19 Lessons of What I Learned When I Was in the Army.

00:47:52.480 If you've never seen it, click over here to watch it.

00:47:54.000 Take care, everybody.

00:47:54.680 Bye-bye.

Valuetainment - September 15, 2021

Spokesperson For 15,000 Pilots Reveals The Challenges In The Airline Industry

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript