Valuetainment - The Boy Crisis Explained - Why America is Producing Weak Men

00:00:00.000 My guest today is Dr. Warren Farrell, who is a New York Times bestselling author,

00:00:04.480 written many different books. He's been on many different TV shows. I'm talking Oprah Winfrey,

00:00:08.700 Phil Donahue, wrote a book called The Myth of Male Power, as well as The Boy Crisis.

00:00:14.960 He's got millions of views online, and he's very comfortable making others uncomfortable.

00:00:20.880 And I would even take it as far as he's very comfortable, sometimes unintentionally or

00:00:26.460 intentionally pissing other people off. So with that being said, Doc, thank you so much for being

00:00:30.980 a guest on Valuetainment. Thank you very much. Yes, speaking empathetically about boys and men

00:00:36.620 does apparently make some people uncomfortable. Why do you think that is, by the way? Why do you

00:00:41.620 think, I mean, even an open-ended question with that, why do you think some people get uncomfortable

00:00:45.780 when you talk about, you know, I don't know what university was you were speaking at. People were

00:00:51.120 rioting against you, protesting against you. They were not happy about you speaking. Some people just

00:00:55.780 wanted to hear your argument, but they tried to silence your message. Why do you think this

00:01:00.140 message of The Boy Crisis, you know, some people have a hard time listening to?

00:01:05.820 Well, to answer that question, we're going to have to go deep quickly, which is that historically

00:01:10.680 and biologically, men were programmed to be disposable. And we were programmed to be disposable

00:01:17.640 to be able to save the lives of women. So every generation had its war, and every generation

00:01:24.520 had some version of Uncle Sam saying, we need you. And we all knew as males that, you know,

00:01:32.360 Uncle Joe, who was in the Marines, was the respected person in the family. And we wanted

00:01:37.340 to be, you know, we were being criticized by our parents. We wanted to be respected.

00:01:40.820 So we accept the social bribe, what I call the social bribe of being called hero, to get that

00:01:46.620 type of respect. And women learn to fall in love with the officer and the gentleman, not the 0.77

00:01:51.800 private and the pacifist. So we knew we would be, if we were willing to risk our lives to save women,

00:01:57.600 to save children, to save other men, save the country, that we would be more loved. We would be

00:02:04.480 the person that was, you know, fallen in love with by the woman who wanted the officer and the

00:02:09.480 gentleman and not that private and the pacifist. We learned on some level that Lois Lane had no

00:02:15.900 interest in Clark Kent, but the same person in Superman uniform, what she fell in love with.

00:02:22.260 And so we, so when men complain, women are programmed to fall in love with alpha men, 0.99

00:02:28.800 not whining men. And so when men complain, it feels to women like, let's say, a chalk on a blackboard,

00:02:39.700 scratching, nails scratching on a blackboard. It feels, it doesn't feel right to women. Women 1.00

00:02:45.200 instinctively withdraw from men who express what concerns them. They want them to be there to

00:02:52.140 deal with what concerns the women. And so, and the, and the process of becoming successful as a man

00:02:59.920 is inversely related to the process of becoming successful in love. And so since we have a lot

00:03:07.800 of entrepreneurs on the line, I'll be glad to take that one at a much deeper level, but that's the,

00:03:12.840 you know, the underlying biological and historical background as to why we don't, we're not as

00:03:18.500 empathetic to boys and men complaining or expressing their hurt, their pain, their feelings, their fears.

00:03:24.460 Now, you know, to go, to go, and I'm going to unpack that, but to go back where the audience kind

00:03:28.840 of knows your history, you're not somebody that started thinking like this your entire life. You

00:03:33.980 were originally part of the feminist movement. Matter of fact, I think there's a picture with

00:03:39.680 you and Gloria Steinem, who was the spokesperson or spokeswoman, or even the leader for the American

00:03:45.820 feminist movement in America. And you were kind of going in that direction. Can you kind of walk

00:03:51.960 us through your history and what made you flip and switch?

00:03:56.860 Yes. First of all, I don't feel I have flipped and switched, but it's definitely true that I was the

00:04:02.380 only man ever elected three times to the board of directors of the National Organization for Women

00:04:07.180 in New York City. And I spoke all around the world on women's issues. And, and my income came

00:04:14.320 completely from speaking around the world on women's issues. And I suppose I was probably the,

00:04:20.040 the best known male spokesperson for women's issues. And so I, yes, I was very close to Gloria Steinem,

00:04:26.300 Betty Friedan, and all the initial leaders of the women's movement. And I think things began to

00:04:32.280 and so I, I never considered, I always considered myself, I would say, a gen, a person in favor of a

00:04:39.540 gender liberation movement. I never wanted women to be criticizing men or women's movement to be focused

00:04:45.960 on criticizing men. I never wanted a men's movement to be focused on criticizing women. I always wanted

00:04:51.400 both sexes to understand that for the first time in human history, we had an opportunity to not be 0.99

00:04:57.320 dominated by not patriarchy, but because I don't think we were dominated by patriarchy, we were

00:05:02.300 dominated by a need to survive. And to survive, women and men in most societies played roles. 0.99

00:05:09.580 Women's role was essentially raise children. Men's role was essentially raise money. Women didn't feel 1.00

00:05:16.180 that they would get much social praise. So they had social bribes to be mothers and to raise those 1.00

00:05:22.660 children and to do that well. And men had social bribes that you weren't worth much of anything if

00:05:28.020 you didn't either participate in the possibility of being disposable in war, or being disposable in

00:05:34.540 the workplace, either by working the hazardous jobs, or by working 60, 70, 80 hours a week where

00:05:41.400 you might die at the desk from stress and overwork. But your job was to earn enough money to be able to

00:05:46.880 support not just your wife and your children. And so you didn't think much of yourself and other people

00:05:51.700 didn't think much of you. If you're an unemployed person living in your family's basement and hoping

00:05:57.820 that a woman would save you, but you're really good looking and sweet and kind and had a good

00:06:01.940 emotional intelligence.

00:06:05.420 So then maybe let me ask the question in a different way.

00:06:08.860 Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't do the second part of that question, which is, you know, what made me evolve

00:06:14.420 from that?

00:06:15.560 And you said not much has. So let me let me ask the question in a different way. So

00:06:20.520 if you've been the same from the 60s and 70s till today, then it would only be the right

00:06:26.460 question to ask, has the movement of feminism changed from what it originally was to what it

00:06:31.980 is today?

00:06:33.520 The answer is three answers to that. Yes, yes, and yes.

00:06:39.180 Got it.

00:06:40.000 So the original focus on the women's movement was that there was that, you know, Helen Reddy, 1.00

00:06:46.760 I am woman, I am strong. It has increasingly become, I am woman, I've been wronged. Hashtag

00:06:54.860 me too, I've been wronged. And then there was always an anti-male dimension to the feminist 1.00

00:07:03.140 movement, even in the early days. My former wife, who is a very wonderful woman, said to me, you know,

00:07:09.320 you don't want to get involved with the women's movement. It's really a lot of anti-male. And my

00:07:14.460 response was, well, it may be anti-male for a while. But I don't think that that will increase

00:07:21.140 as men start listening to it. And men and women, men and women's roles tend to change. And to modify,

00:07:29.020 I think both sexes roles will change and modify. However, I do think men's roles will change much 0.55

00:07:34.360 more slowly than women's roles will change. And my former wife said, it was that because you feel 0.98

00:07:39.760 men have the power? I said, no, they don't have the power to speak up about the limitations of 0.98

00:07:45.040 their roles. We are programmed to protect women and to be able to do what women ask for. And right 1.00

00:07:53.180 now, women are the first ones speaking up to be able to be more flexible in who they want to be, 1.00

00:07:58.660 to be able to, when children come, women express, they have three choices. Choice number one is to be 1.00

00:08:06.960 full-time with the children if they're married and middle-class or above. Choice number two is to

00:08:12.280 be full-time with the workplace. Choice number three is to be work part-time. And men also have,

00:08:19.420 you know, say, well, we have three options too. And option one is to work full-time. Option two is to

00:08:24.860 work full-time. Option three is to work full-time. Or if they're working class men to work two jobs. 1.00

00:08:30.940 And if they're a corporate executive, it's to, or involved in their middle and upper middle-class

00:08:39.620 men, it's often to work more hours at the same job or to become more successful. So a person who was a

00:08:46.240 local salesperson for Product X might feel much more inclined to accept a position as national salesperson.

00:08:54.400 But as a national salesperson, he finds himself leaving his, experiencing the father's catch-22.

00:09:02.040 And the father's catch-22 is learning to love his family by being away from the love of his family.

00:09:07.440 And so he then feels he's doing this increased amount of money earning to be able to give his

00:09:16.920 family options that he never had. He wants to buy a better home and a better neighborhood with a

00:09:23.820 better school system for his kids and a better home for both his wife and his kids. And so he gets

00:09:30.620 caught up in that, but then spends less and less time for the kids and wife that he really loves

00:09:35.640 and he's working for until sometimes he does things that he learns. He learns things to be successful at

00:09:41.840 work that are the opposite of what it takes to be successful in love. And he doesn't know that he's

00:09:47.600 doing that. And the wife and children don't know that he's doing that. But, you know, I'll be happy to share

00:09:53.360 with you what that tension is that often leads to many successful men ending up getting divorced or

00:10:01.260 not getting divorced because their wife needs the security economically that he provides. But he

00:10:06.620 senses underneath that his wife is really hanging around to love the children and have that security

00:10:12.660 rather than feeling loved himself.

00:10:14.740 Well, let me ask this. So common reasons why women get a divorce, common reasons why men get a divorce. 0.97

00:10:22.500 It's a difference. In my family, I've seen both. My dad filed a divorce against my mom. So it was more

00:10:28.640 from that side. But from your experience, what are reasons why men file for a divorce over women filing for

00:10:33.520 a divorce?

00:10:33.880 Well, bigger picture first, when women have a college education, they are 92% of the people who 1.00

00:10:43.380 are filed for divorce. When they don't have an education, much like they've only graduated from

00:10:48.740 high school as opposed to college, the percentages are lower.

00:10:52.700 Because when a woman has economic security, she needs the man less for economic security. 1.00

00:11:07.640 She senses that if she sues, if she's the plaintiff, she has some advantages legally that allow her to

00:11:16.280 make it likely that she will both get a significant amount of economic security in the future and will

00:11:25.140 also provide the children. She basically has the right to the children. He has to fight for the

00:11:30.200 children. And if he fights for the children, it will cost him maybe $125,000 to a quarter million

00:11:36.440 to fight for the children. And that oftentimes just breaks his heart. So men and women who are going

00:11:45.960 through family court, men often get so depressed by the process that they're eight times as likely as

00:11:52.000 the mother is to commit suicide. And so it's a very challenging process because the court system is

00:12:01.560 really designed at its current state to when a woman, most judges feel that children do best with

00:12:11.560 both parents have to divorce. That's accurate. And most judges agree with that. However, when a woman 1.00

00:12:17.220 says, I'm afraid of my husband, not just physically, but you know, he might, he shouts at me and he raised

00:12:24.200 his voice and she gives a couple of examples of that. Then the judge often fears giving the custody

00:12:33.520 equally to both sexes because if there's one time out of a thousand that, that in fact, that man is

00:12:41.680 violent or physically abuses the woman or just overly shouts at the woman and she records it on a video

00:12:49.060 cam that he feel he, he becomes, he or she, the judge becomes vulnerable to being losing her, his position

00:12:59.160 as a judge. Okay. So, so why do men file the divorce? And you know, again, you hear stories

00:13:09.060 about women. Why are some reasons why men file a divorce? Well, first of all, both sexes file for 0.67

00:13:16.100 divorce largely because neither sex feels heard. That is the single biggest problem. The Achilles heel

00:13:25.600 of all human beings is our inability to handle personal criticism without becoming defensive.

00:13:31.760 And that's true of both men and women. When men do file for divorce, it's often because they,

00:13:38.960 they feel that they just can't take it anymore. They feel that their alcoholism or their ideations of

00:13:47.900 suicide or their, the feeling that the, the mother really doesn't like him anymore, not even just not

00:13:55.440 love him, but not like him. And, and then often, and then usually somewhere along the way,

00:14:01.680 particularly if he's an executive or a corporate person and he moves around a lot and owns his own

00:14:06.820 business, he might go from branch to branch of his, of his business and eventually meet somebody that

00:14:12.780 really, he feels respects him. Oftentimes his own secretary might be much more respectful of him

00:14:18.920 than his wife. And, and so he feels like there's somebody else that can love me, that does understand

00:14:25.100 me, that, that is proud of me. And, and verse, and then he has an affair with her. And, and, and that

00:14:34.540 leads to him feeling that, and then usually the new woman wants, wants more than just an affair, wants some 0.77

00:14:42.740 security, wants some lifetime intimacy, he does too. And so that accounts for the 8% of people who are men

00:14:50.560 that file for divorce usually, and, or the greater percentage of the woman has less of a, of, of an 0.87

00:14:58.360 education and is less likely to file. Then that starts increasing to about 20, 25% of males filing for

00:15:06.600 divorce. So, so doc, you know, the boy crisis, I mean, the crisis of education, crisis of mental health,

00:15:14.100 crisis of fathering, crisis of purpose, you know, you, you talk about this. And then I saw one of your speeches

00:15:19.100 where you're talking about at the age of nine, boys and girls suicide rate is the same. At 10 or 14, boys are twice the

00:15:27.220 chance of committing suicide than girls do, twice the amount of suicides as boys, as girls do. 15 to 19, it's four times the

00:15:34.920 amount, boys to girls. 20 to 25, it's six times the amount, boys to girls. So if you don't, if you don't mind unpacking

00:15:42.560 the boys crisis, I have some follow-ups, whether anything to do with the upbringing has to do with the divorce, but I'd like

00:15:48.860 to start with the boy crisis first. Yes. When I first submitted my proposal to my publisher for the boy crisis book, I had 10

00:15:58.540 causes of the boy crisis that I was going to write a chapter in each. And then the more I studied it, the

00:16:04.860 more I realized that the single most important cause by a long shot was that basically the boy crisis

00:16:11.360 resides where dads do not reside. And when boys don't have, when, when usually when there's one parent

00:16:21.280 in the game and the other parent minimally involved or not at all involved, it's usually the mother

00:16:28.080 that's the primary parent and the dad that's the secondary parent. And in those situations, the girls

00:16:34.260 have challenges in more than, the daughters have challenges in more than 50 different areas.

00:16:38.980 But the boys have challenges in more than 50 different areas also, but their challenges are

00:16:45.160 more intense. They're more likely to commit suicide than the girls are by the data that you just gave. 1.00

00:16:52.160 They're more likely to move into depression when you measure depression by male standards, which is

00:16:59.420 almost completely unheard of as opposed to just the female measures of depression. Almost all of our

00:17:04.920 measures of depression are female measures. The boys are much more likely to become addicted to video

00:17:10.160 games. Girls and boys both play video games. Video games are very healthy at a reasonable proportional

00:17:17.180 amount of level to the rest of life. But when it comes to addiction to video games, boys are far more

00:17:22.720 likely to be addicted to video games than girls are. Boys are far more likely to be addicted to drugs,

00:17:29.680 to alcohol. Their depression leads them to feeling that they're worthless and they become ashamed of

00:17:36.720 themselves and they fear that they're going to be rejected by girls. So they're much more likely to

00:17:42.160 turn to pornography because pornography is basically access to a variety of attractive women without fear of 1.00

00:17:49.920 rejection at a price they can afford. And so guys, as they don't do as well in school,

00:17:57.600 they don't feel as admired by girls. Girls tend to date winners, not losers. And so they feel that

00:18:03.280 they're a loser and that they fear that they can't risk rejection because they know that the girls they're

00:18:08.840 most attracted to are dating the quarterbacks or the student body president or some other guy that's 0.99

00:18:13.380 really sharp and on the basketball team, et cetera. And so they start fearing becoming introspective,

00:18:21.700 becoming withdrawn, becoming rebellious, becoming very coercive to their parents. And they feel badly

00:18:29.980 about themselves. And that leads them into depression, into suicide, into drinking, into drugs,

00:18:34.920 into death from opioid overdoses, and into addiction to pornography. And so that addiction to pornography

00:18:42.020 is very dangerous because what happens for boys who are addicted to pornography is that the first time

00:18:48.980 they are watching pornography and just watching an attractive woman take her clothes off is really

00:18:55.600 exciting for them. But after they've watched that 15 times, it loses the excitement. And so they have

00:19:02.060 to keep upping the ante until they're requiring things like the only way they can get turned on is a

00:19:10.020 woman doing something like letting him come in her face. And so, but then they finally get a woman that 1.00

00:19:17.840 is really interested in being with them. And the woman is, and they get together and she, and he wants

00:19:24.940 to do that. And she goes, you know, and withdraws because she, he feels treated like a porn object because

00:19:31.140 she's being treated like a porn object. And so that's really very challenging for the woman and 0.95

00:19:38.960 therefore is challenging for the, um, the guy as well. Have you ever spoken to Pamela Anderson?

00:19:45.600 I have never spoken to Pamela Anderson. No, I think it may not be a bad idea to speak to her because

00:19:50.500 one of the things she talks to her boys about is when she says, sometimes when I would go home with a guy, 0.94

00:19:56.480 they would try to have sex with me as if they watched the porn. And she said, I taught my boys 0.98

00:20:00.800 don't have sex with girls with what you see in porn, because that's not how they like it. 1.00

00:20:05.300 I think it's a very good conversation for the two of you guys to have, but that's a complete 0.97

00:20:08.840 different subject. That's just a suggestion. And I would agree with her a hundred percent.

00:20:12.740 Yeah. So going back to, uh, going back to what we're talking about here with porn,

00:20:16.280 uh, uh, the, the visual you gave was very helpful. Uh, I'm sure it inspired a lot of people to

00:20:22.920 make some bright adjustments in their lives. Uh, so, but, uh, going back to this, so you talk

00:20:29.260 about a fatherless boys. Okay. And statistics we see nowadays and the consequences of it. One,

00:20:36.240 uh, what is the number between fatherless boys and motherless boys? Is it a 98 to two, like the boys

00:20:41.900 that are raised without a mother, how small of a percentage is that? Well, we don't even have a lot

00:20:45.220 of data on it. Yes. Um, boy, boys are far more likely to be raised by their mom than their dad.

00:20:51.260 It's about a nine to one ratio. Nine to one ratio. Okay. So, so let me, let me go a little

00:20:55.340 bit more deeper with that on the question. So, so boys, okay. So we know that we know that's

00:20:59.060 going to be taking place. Is there an event that incentivize, incentivize, uh, uh, you know,

00:21:06.000 mothers to say, I don't need a man to help me raise my kids. I can do it on my own. Or has this

00:21:10.920 number nine to one been historically the same where we've had a lot of, you know, fatherless,

00:21:16.900 you know, homes where boys are raised without a father. Is there, is there a trend

00:21:21.020 that took place? Very good question. And, uh, the answer is in the 53 largest developed

00:21:29.120 nations with the emphasis on the word developed, um, in developed nations, survival is not as

00:21:35.900 big an issue in the middle and upper middle class as it is in less developed nations. When

00:21:41.400 survival is not as big an issue, the society starts giving more permission for there to be,

00:21:45.820 uh, divorces, if you want that, cause you're moving from survival, survival, what you need 1.00

00:21:51.000 to what you want. And if two people are unhappy, most societies that are developed allow some

00:21:56.880 permission for divorce. Uh, the churches are usually not as, as significant a role. They play a role,

00:22:03.400 but the pressure to, to not be, uh, to be disgraced at yourself. If you, uh, if you get a divorce is not

00:22:12.920 as great. Um, so you have, uh, uh, so in the, um, and you have more freedom to raise children, um, by

00:22:21.120 yourself, if you're a woman. So in the United States at the present moment, 53% of, um, women who have 0.91

00:22:28.960 children who are under 30, 53% have, have, uh, children without being married. Um, and in general,

00:22:37.300 um, without the under 30 part put in, uh, 42% of women in the United States at, at the present 0.92

00:22:45.400 moment who have children or have children without being married. Most of the time, even among those,

00:22:50.880 um, who have, who are not married, but they're living with a man at the time that they have children,

00:22:56.200 those relationships last on average about three years. Um, and then usually after that three years,

00:23:03.180 uh, the children, um, have minimal or no contact with the dad, uh, when there's a split up. And so

00:23:09.920 the boy crisis resides among those boys who have minimal or no contact with the dad. And even, and

00:23:19.260 they've had that contact for the first few years, but then they feel abandoned and lost by that dad

00:23:25.200 and boys, you know, the girls at least have the role model of a mother as to what it is to be a

00:23:30.220 female, but the boys don't have the role model of a father, or if they have a role model of the

00:23:35.840 father, that father, after the mother and father break up, or the father is often bad mouthed by the

00:23:41.360 mother. He's very narcissistic. That's why we broke up. He's very self-centered and he's very, 0.93

00:23:46.320 he's not reliable. He's not, um, um, you know, he's a liar, things like that. And the boy begins to 0.75

00:23:52.580 look in the mirror and worry that maybe he's looking in the mirror because he's a narcissist

00:23:57.000 or he's, you know, he remembers lying to a friend of his, or he remembers being unreliable in this

00:24:02.260 way or that way. And he begins to fear that the qualities that, that the father is being condemned

00:24:07.580 for that led to the breakup of the mother and father are also qualities that he has. And, but he

00:24:12.460 can't talk to the father about that because that'll only destabilize the relationship when the father

00:24:17.240 would mother have a fight, can't talk to the mother about that for the same destabilization 1.00

00:24:21.260 fear. And so he just shuts up about that, keeps that inside of himself. And it becomes a problem

00:24:26.840 that leads to, you know, depending on the personality of the boy, it either leads to minor problems or

00:24:32.180 very major psychological problems that, that oftentimes boys don't go to the psychologist and

00:24:37.380 they don't work those things out. And so among divorced families, the challenge is even greater

00:24:43.800 because the, the, the children are often seeing the mother and father argue. The, the arguments are

00:24:51.100 not compassionate arguments where, gee, I heard you say this. Tell me more about what you've said.

00:24:57.300 Did I distort anything about, here's what I heard you say. Did I distort anything? Am I missing anything?

00:25:02.260 Is there anything more that you want to add, sweetheart? Tell me more. That is not the conversation that

00:25:07.060 the children of divorce tend to hear. And so for the past 30 years, I've been conducting couples

00:25:13.000 communication workshops around the country because I wanted to prevent the divorces. I wanted children

00:25:19.020 to have parents that had happy relationships, positive relationships that, that had, that had

00:25:25.240 differences of opinion, but they knew how to hear each other, to work those differences through.

00:25:31.220 And so therefore there would, as a result of that, be fewer divorces. And therefore there would,

00:25:35.640 as a result of that, be fewer boys that didn't have very much father involvement. And so I've sort of

00:25:42.440 gone back to the root cause of the boy crisis, which really wasn't boys alone, but it was families

00:25:49.940 breaking up, children, boys, not having a dad to work with and not having good communication role

00:25:55.960 models in their parents. And therefore those boys and the daughters of these, of these divorced families

00:26:02.040 are far more likely to have divorces themselves when, and, and bad communication methods as they grow

00:26:09.640 up. Do, do our taxes, does our tax system benefit, uh, single mothers having more kids without relying 0.99

00:26:19.480 on a husband just to say, you know, if I have another kid, I'm going to make an additional X, Y,

00:26:25.580 amount of money per year. So I don't need another man because I'm going to get a benefit that's coming

00:26:29.760 from the government. Does that take into account? Because again, as somebody that's been in a financial

00:26:34.640 industry, all I'm looking for is data to show me what flip, did a tax incentive flip, did a new

00:26:40.480 program flip, did a new method of teaching in our educational system flip? What was it that caused

00:26:45.780 this to become, uh, the number that it is today? The main flip was the option of developed nations

00:26:54.600 that didn't have to worry about survival. The second flip was the government became a substitute husband 0.60

00:27:02.500 when it started to make, um, uh, laws saying that if a woman, uh, didn't have a man that she was living

00:27:11.200 with or was not married to a man, uh, that she could get money from the government. Um, and so the

00:27:17.940 government became a substitute husband. And this was institutionalized through many, many programs

00:27:23.700 like women, infants, and children, which makes it clear that it's not men, infants, and children. It's

00:27:29.520 not couples, infants, and children. It's not infants whose parents don't make enough money. Uh, so

00:27:35.400 particularly in, um, inner city communities where that were poor oftentimes, and particularly in

00:27:41.200 African-American black communities, uh, there was oftentimes the, the, the black male, uh, was not

00:27:47.160 making, um, a lot of money. And in those cases when he wasn't, um, the woman and the black male, um, both

00:27:55.220 usually a black woman and a black male, man calculated that there was, um, a, an inadequate

00:28:01.520 amount of money that was coming from the father to support the children effectively. So she, um,

00:28:07.260 made sure that the father did not live with her. And so then, um, so she could get the money from the

00:28:13.420 government. Um, and that money came in multiple forms, but not just through the women, infants,

00:28:17.920 and children forms. And, um, and so the woman felt that the best way to protect her children,

00:28:23.340 uh, was to not have the father around, but it turned out and, uh, that, that, that was the worst

00:28:29.300 way to protect her children because, um, the children without children without a dad are most

00:28:34.900 vulnerable. Now we've known this since 1965 when the Moynihan report came out and, um, Daniel Patrick

00:28:43.580 Moynihan was a sociologist, a U S Senator, a department of labor, um, a cabinet executive under both

00:28:50.000 Republicans and democratic presidents. Um, and he was asked because he had such qualifications to do

00:28:57.580 a report of what was created crime in the inner city. And everybody was going, Oh my God, this is

00:29:03.720 going to end up, you know, blaming crime on blacks because we know that in the inner city, very 0.99

00:29:08.500 frequently blacks commit crimes. And, uh, what came out was a very different report than many people 0.97

00:29:13.380 expected. And which was that the crimes were not created by blacks per se, that crimes were created 0.85

00:29:19.780 by that, that those people in the inner city who were being raised, uh, without dads. Uh, and that 0.90

00:29:28.480 at the time in 1965 was 25% of the males in the inner city, uh, almost all blacks, um, uh, that, that

00:29:38.380 would be among black males, uh, among black families, uh, 25% of the children were being raised without

00:29:46.500 their dads in 1965. Today, the percentage is more than 70% among black males, um, among Caucasian males at the

00:29:56.660 1965, it was only 3.2% of Caucasian males that were being raised without their dads. Today, it is 35% of

00:30:08.880 Caucasian males being raised without their dads. So the Caucasian males being raised without their dads today

00:30:15.140 is higher than it was for black males in 1965. And we're seeing a huge amount of dysfunction 0.95

00:30:23.740 among both black males and Caucasian males today. Um, and much more among Caucasian males than we were

00:30:33.120 seeing among black males in the, um, 1960s and mid sixties. Do we know why? Yes, because the lack of father 1.00

00:30:42.920 involvement leads many boys to feel that, that they, um, they, they don't usually have postponed

00:30:51.140 gratification. Uh, so I'll give, I'll give you an example, um, of what happens. So, uh, moms and dads

00:30:58.240 tend to set boundaries the same way. They both care about their children. They say, sweetie, you can't

00:31:04.020 have your ice cream until you finish your peas. Children tend to test boundaries the same way. Um, they

00:31:10.300 want to have as few peas as possible before they get their ice cream. Uh, the difference between

00:31:15.180 moms and dads on average, and sometimes this is reversed, uh, the roles are reversed on average.

00:31:20.680 The, the, um, difference is that when the child says to mom, you know, I don't want to have my

00:31:28.220 peas. I had a bad day in school today. I was bullied by somebody where the mom and dad are divorced and

00:31:34.000 the mom feels guilty about the divorce and my feels as the child must be very stressed. Her empathy

00:31:39.700 tends to step forward about, uh, and she says to herself some version of, um, I'm not going to get

00:31:46.140 into a big argument about a few peas. This is ridiculous. Now, when they're married and the 0.94

00:31:50.200 father does get in, in forces, they can't have the peas until the, um, the, uh, they can't have the

00:31:56.220 ice cream until they have the peas. Uh, the mother feels that the dad is being insensitive. Uh, when

00:32:01.440 they're divorced and the father, the children are going over to the father's house, the father says,

00:32:05.240 I'm sorry, we had a deal here. Uh, the deal is you can't have your ice cream until you finish

00:32:09.300 your peas. And the child goes, you're so mean, you know, mom, it lets me have my peas when I've

00:32:14.120 had a bad day like this. And so with the dad, the children learned that they have to focus

00:32:19.360 on finishing their peas in order to get their ice cream. And because dad's not going to give

00:32:27.740 in and empathy will not, uh, the, the, the child cannot coerce or manipulate the father's

00:32:34.560 emotions in order to get the ice cream, uh, before he finishes the peas. Uh, whereas with

00:32:41.080 mom, the child is learning, ah, I can manipulate a better deal here. Uh, mom says, okay, I know

00:32:47.020 you're, you know, you've had a bad day. So I'll tell you what, just have half the peas. And so

00:32:50.860 the child realizes, ah, this is negotiable. So it begins to try to have half the half a peas.

00:32:56.580 And, um, and then, and then the mom says, okay, I'm again, the child at least tried it's

00:33:02.100 had, they've had a bad day. Okay. So now the child is learning that with mom, I can manipulate

00:33:07.600 better deals. And so the skillset that the child with mom often learns is that of manipulation,

00:33:13.700 but also a lack of respect for the mom's boundaries. And so the mom finds herself repeating and repeating

00:33:20.700 the boundaries, um, and, um, and where dad, um, after a while does not have to repeat it because

00:33:27.120 dad's made clear, uh, that when the child does not finish the peas, uh, there's no ice cream.

00:33:32.380 So the child learns to focus on doing what he or she needs to do in order to get what she or he wants

00:33:40.320 the ice cream. And so what the child is learning with the dad is postponed gratification. And as most

00:33:47.700 people know, postponed gratification is the single biggest predictor of success or failure. So the

00:33:54.280 boy without postponed gratification goes to school, um, has homework to finish, but it's much more

00:33:59.980 likely to get sidetracked by an invitation from a friend to play a video game. And so, or he has a

00:34:05.420 real great potential as a basketball or football player, or as an actor, as a musician, but he doesn't

00:34:11.100 have the discipline, um, to, uh, to become one of the best actors, musicians, basketball players.

00:34:17.360 Um, so, uh, other kids beat him out that are even less talented than he is for that role. And he begins

00:34:22.820 to feel ashamed of himself and sometimes depressed. And again, no girls are interested in the losers. 0.99

00:34:27.980 They're interested in the winners. And so he starts turning in on himself and becoming withdrawn.

00:34:33.400 And his only friends are the online friends that he doesn't have real friends that will help him

00:34:38.180 move or do something when it really counts. And so this leads to depression. And in worst case

00:34:43.900 scenarios, uh, the increase in suicides. And a lot of that comes from not having a dad

00:34:49.640 that is there to guide him, to help him take risks, to help them be disciplined at doing what he wants

00:34:57.580 to do. Uh, moms are very good at helping their children, both girls and boys identify their talents 0.92

00:35:03.840 and pursue them. But very frequently the children without a dad does not have the discipline to

00:35:10.520 successfully become outstanding at the most fulfilling things. If you want to be an engineer

00:35:16.020 or, um, you need, um, you need that discipline, but also if you want to be an artist, a writer,

00:35:23.240 a musician, if you want to ever make a living at it, uh, or a basketball player and join the NBA,

00:35:29.160 you've got to be extremely, um, disciplined. Uh, that was great. So on your points, you've written

00:35:37.840 here, you know, in the book, the crisis of education, crisis of mental health, crisis of

00:35:41.220 father, crisis of a fathering purpose, all that stuff. But how much, how much of, um, the crisis,

00:35:48.680 I know you said, yeah, 10, so I don't know the other six, what they were, but how much do you think

00:35:52.640 the role of media and movies play in, uh, who this kid wants to be? Meaning, uh, I'm growing up,

00:36:00.460 who's the hero? If the hero to me was like this strong military general, uh, you know what,

00:36:06.160 when I grow up, I want to be general Patton or whatever, you know, when I grow up, I want to be

00:36:10.240 like, you know, uh, a John F. Kennedy. I want to be like Reagan. I want to be like whoever it is.

00:36:16.140 I want to be like, uh, you know, um, Clint Eastwood. I mean, he's a man's man. You know, I want to be

00:36:22.760 like this guy. How, how much has the media change with portraying who the ideal male is that is

00:36:31.400 loved, admired, and respected? And does that have a big influence on how boys adjust to get that

00:36:38.560 necessary attention? Like, oh my gosh, today's boys are a little bit more silly. I'm going to be silly 0.99

00:36:42.940 because that gets the right attention versus man. Today's men are strong. I'm going to be strong

00:36:47.320 because that gets the respect I want. Do you think media plays a big role in that?

00:36:51.940 Yeah. Media does play an important, a very important role. Um, and we still have the same

00:36:58.120 basic image of men, uh, today, um, on one level, uh, that is the man that the woman is interested in

00:37:07.520 and attracted to in some version of Superman. However, the images of the father on TV are the

00:37:16.400 Archie bunkers are the, um, you know, other fathers that are just, um, that are the, that are goofballs

00:37:22.880 and the, um, and the, and an analysis of advertising on TV where one parent is focused, um, uh, it looks 0.98

00:37:30.280 like a jerk or looks like a bumble, you know, a well-intended, but bumbling, um, parent is not

00:37:36.140 90% males as dads that are looked at in a way, but 100% males when there's only one parent being 0.99

00:37:44.440 portrayed as a jerk, 100% of the time on your advertising, um, it is the male being portrayed 0.99

00:37:51.860 as some version of the jerk or a well-intended, but bumbling sort of quasi idiot, if you will. 1.00

00:37:58.280 And so we've gone to, from father knows best to fathers know less as in our media images of dads. 0.99

00:38:08.000 And so it's the dad image that has really been, um, neglected. That said, there is recently an

00:38:16.460 increasing number of positive father images in advertising and that's, um, and that's, but there's

00:38:23.680 nothing close to what I feel needs to happen. Uh, when I spoke to the, when I briefed the White

00:38:28.960 House, uh, the, the White House, but I briefed the White House on the Boy Crisis book, uh, one of the

00:38:35.660 things I talked with them about is developing a father warrior program, W-A-R-R, not warrior,

00:38:41.460 warrior, um, but warrior program, um, to encourage boys to, um, overcome the social biases, uh, that it

00:38:50.060 takes, uh, to become, to be valued as a dad. Uh, right now, if you, if, if a girl in college or a

00:38:57.360 young woman in college, uh, approaches a male in college at a, at a party, let's say, and she says,

00:39:03.800 oh, you know, what's, you know, what are you, um, planning to do when you get out of college? And

00:39:07.440 he says, oh, I want to be a full-time dad. Uh, she's, you know, she's likely to find a journalist,

00:39:12.520 um, in the, in the room to come back and interview him. Um, but she's likely to not come back for a

00:39:17.840 second drink herself. And so the guy gets the hint that, you know, um, an aspiration to be a full-time

00:39:23.840 dad or, uh, while the woman goes off and maybe earns the primary source of income or all the source 0.54

00:39:30.440 of income, uh, that's a role that would be perfectly fine for her to play. And he will be

00:39:35.660 still attracted to her if she says she wants to be the primary parent. Uh, but very few, he, he gets

00:39:41.500 it that very few women are going to come back and, um, and want to be with him if that's what he

00:39:47.300 states as his life goal. Yeah. I have a friend who's a full-time dad and the wife works and they've

00:39:52.740 been together for 12 years, 13 years and happily married. So, uh, are you starting to see an increase

00:39:59.560 in that? And if yes, why? Yes, there is an increase in that, fortunately. Why though? And I, was that?

00:40:07.060 Why, why is that happening? Because there is an increased amount. Well, first of all, um, we are

00:40:13.400 now at a place where two out of three of the people who graduate from college are female. Yep. Not, 1.00

00:40:22.480 not 60, 40, 60, 40 are the ones that enter college, but among college graduates, the ratio is two female 0.80

00:40:31.500 to one male. Um, so 60, 40 get into college, but men, uh, males in college are much less likely to

00:40:38.760 graduate from college for a lot of reasons, but the emphasis, the, the end product is, uh, the woman 1.00

00:40:46.240 we're, we're twice as likely to have young women who are recent college graduates, um, that we are a 1.00

00:40:52.500 male who's a recent college graduate. So the, the female is oftentimes, um, as available to her men who

00:41:00.360 may be good looking, may be taller than she, um, but she knows that she's going to be earning more 0.95

00:41:06.600 money than he. And so, uh, then a big issue, a big issue happens, um, if she wants to be a have-it-all 0.99

00:41:13.360 woman, and she's really interested in, um, you know, in developing, um, you know, breaking a glass

00:41:18.940 ceiling. Uh, she knows that to do that, but she usually wants to have, to be a have-it-all woman. 1.00

00:41:24.220 She wants to be happily married and she wants to have children and children that are well-raised.

00:41:28.580 Um, so she begins to adjust to say, well, one way that I can do that is to marry a man, um, who is a

00:41:36.000 nurturer connector type of man, as opposed to a provider protector type of man. And, um, but, um,

00:41:42.540 oftentimes, and she does that, and the marriage will, that type of marriage, that is a woman who 1.00

00:41:48.720 is the primary breadwinner and a man who is home taking care of the children, um, if she truly

00:41:55.200 respects him, that marriage has a high percentage chance of working out very well. Uh, so two things,

00:42:02.480 three things have to be in place. She has to really want to be a career person and want to have a lot of 0.95

00:42:08.460 her approval and respect for the career person. She has to adjust ahead of time to the fact that

00:42:14.640 the man, that she can respect the man who's taking care of the children well, taking care of the social

00:42:20.460 schedule, cooking the dinners well, and so on. And if she loses respect for him, if she, if she gets

00:42:28.620 attracted to another man at work, who's really successful, who also seems to be attracted to her,

00:42:33.660 that can make her divided in her love and the marriage will very frequently end. Um, but if she, 1.00

00:42:40.820 um, has the fortitude to know that the reason she has a happy marriage and, um, and the man is raising

00:42:48.120 children, that men will only do that, um, with gusto if they feel the respect from their wives.

00:42:56.820 Uh, because almost every man instinctively knows that a woman who does not respect a man is not able

00:43:03.400 to love that man. So, so in a case of a Jeff Bezos, uh, and McKenzie, uh, you have a McKenzie

00:43:12.580 married to a guy who is now the richest man in the world and they get a divorce and she goes and

00:43:18.000 marries a school teacher, a guy named Dan, I don't know, Jewett or some, some, you know, you know,

00:43:22.440 nice guy, I'm sure, but he's a school teacher. So you go from here to here. Is there, is there

00:43:29.160 also an element of, I am so burned out with being with a driven alpha guy that I just want a regular

00:43:35.960 guy. Like, you know how we go through a breakup? We're dramatic, right? We'll go from somebody that

00:43:41.200 is, you know, driven, competitive. You're like, oh my gosh, she's so attractive to me and overbearing. 1.00

00:43:47.000 You're like, I just want to date a regular girl. And then you're like, oh my gosh, I'm so bored. And

00:43:50.480 you go back to this. Why, why do we, why do we, and the reason why I asked this question

00:43:54.260 from you is because you brought up your first wife and I think your first wife was a mathematician.

00:43:58.780 I may be wrong. I think she was a mathematician or either you were a mathematician or she was

00:44:03.040 a mathematician. And you guys were married for nine, for 10 years. You spoke very highly

00:44:06.940 about her here on the, uh, uh, you know, uh, interview. And then your second wife, I think

00:44:12.600 you guys been together for 20 years now. I want to say it's 20 years, give or take a little

00:44:15.920 over 20 years. So where do we get marriage wrong? Like, I don't even know if most, most

00:44:24.000 men even know like the purpose of getting married, like what we're looking for. Are we confused

00:44:29.880 half the time when we're getting married?

00:44:32.520 Yes. To be fair and honest, um, both sexes tend to fall in love with the members of the

00:44:37.280 other sex who are the, who are often opposites and, and often the least capable of loving 1.00

00:44:43.340 them. Uh, so men fall in love with beautiful younger women who are less mature, uh, than 1.00

00:44:48.900 they are and end up, um, being highly, you know, look up, looking up to the man at the

00:44:54.060 beginning and we feel really proud and approved of and so on. Uh, but then it turns out that

00:44:59.340 we're a little bit disgusted at their lack of maturity and they're disgusted at our, uh, propensity

00:45:05.180 for dominating and, um, and having all the answers. And the more mature she becomes, the

00:45:09.580 more she wants to have inequality in the relationship, which was different from the dynamic that attracted 1.00

00:45:14.800 the two of them. But there's a, there's a lot of bigger issues that often happen here

00:45:18.740 too. So in the Jeff Bezos case, I don't know the situation personally, but normally speaking

00:45:23.560 or very frequently as a sort of model, um, the, uh, the woman will initially be attracted

00:45:29.480 to a man who is very successful, powerful, um, confident in himself, able to be, uh, has

00:45:35.120 a sense of efficacy. Um, and so, um, but she doesn't realize that it's, um, but that it's

00:45:42.860 exactly those characteristics that will lead to their divorce. Here's why. So, um, what both

00:45:50.560 sexes have an equal need for is a need to feel heard and understood. But as the male, um, who

00:45:57.320 is successful becomes more and more successful, he often learns a series of behaviors that are,

00:46:04.180 uh, that are, that help him become successful at work. That is, are exactly the behaviors

00:46:11.520 that lead him to be unsuccessful in love. So for example, let's say you're a CEO and you're

00:46:17.420 looking for, um, a, a new type of plane and you get, um, a salesperson trying to sell you

00:46:23.840 a special engine, um, that they have for a new plane that will, that they say will be

00:46:28.700 perfect for you. Well, as, as, as a CEO, you're listening to that, um, salesperson speak and

00:46:34.360 you're thinking to yourself, okay, is this salesperson is, um, convincing as another salesperson

00:46:39.640 I had before. And should I also interview somebody else? Uh, will this work for my Chinese

00:46:44.480 market? Uh, will this work for these infrastructure that I already have set up for my Chinese market?

00:46:49.240 Uh, will this, um, you know, and, and it's asking a hundred questions like this while the person is

00:46:55.920 talking. Um, and so that person, the, a good CEO has learned to self-listen, um, to, to be juggling

00:47:05.840 the listening process with the, um, with the yes, but process or what about process and the cross

00:47:12.540 examination process, that skillset for the good CEO becomes so ingrained that when he takes that,

00:47:20.660 that skillset home, and by the way, this can sometimes be happened to women as well. Um, 1.00

00:47:26.120 not as frequently, but I'll explain why both frequently and not frequently. So the, the male

00:47:30.860 sales of the male CEO comes home and his wife says, you know, I've had a really difficult day at work,

00:47:36.620 or I've had a difficult day with the children or something's happened in the family. And, um,

00:47:41.740 and the male sees his wife, the woman he loves, the woman he'd probably die for, um, to, is having a

00:47:49.240 problem. And so our instinct when our wife is having a problem is to, while she's talking, to figure out

00:47:54.980 a solution, because instinctively when our wife, who I, we love is bleeding to death, the only way to 0.96

00:48:02.740 handle that is to solve the problem, to get the band-aids on her quickly, to get it to the emergency 1.00

00:48:07.460 room quickly. And so, um, we, we're, we're behaving with our wife in a way that is looking for the

00:48:14.340 solution while she's talking. Very few CEOs or top-level entrepreneurs realize that there is a

00:48:21.520 solution for your wife's complaints and challenges, and that is to listen. Not only listen by keeping your

00:48:30.500 mouth shut, but also listen by when she's finished the complaining, not coming up with a solution,

00:48:38.820 but rather saying, so, sweetie, what I heard you say was, was this is, and then asking, is that

00:48:45.720 accurate? And then if she says, no, actually, it's mostly accurate. Thank you for listening. But I think

00:48:51.540 you got this wrong. Not saying, no, no, I said that, uh, not becoming defensive about what she feels we got

00:48:57.220 wrong, but being right in there saying, so it's not what I said, but it's this, is that correct?

00:49:03.300 And then she goes, yes, that's correct. Okay. Did I miss anything in understanding what you're saying?

00:49:09.940 Um, yes, I think you miss this. No, no, no. I think I got that. I said that because this, no,

00:49:15.420 shut your mouth, listen, work on what she feels you miss, because the only thing that counts is what

00:49:22.660 she feels that you've missed. And then when she begins to feel safe, because you didn't distort 0.94

00:49:27.780 anything and you didn't miss anything saying, is there anything new that you'd like to add that

00:49:32.660 leads to a woman or when a woman does the same thing for a man in reverse, that leads to your partner 1.00

00:49:39.620 feeling heard. But the great majority of men move to fixing the problem as opposed to understanding

00:49:49.220 that you can fix the problem by not fixing the problem. The fixing of the problem is the listening

00:49:57.160 process, hearing, um, and then letting your wife or your daughter or your son, um, say, here's what I

00:50:05.720 heard you say, son, daughter, wife, um, mom, dad, um, and then mom and dad, daughter, wife, uh, son feels really

00:50:16.680 heard. And then did I, and being open to anything you distorted, open anything that you missed. And so

00:50:23.840 this is what I teach in my couples communication courses in much greater depth than I've explained

00:50:29.100 here. And invariably one of the men in the course will say, well, no, I'm not really fixing it. Then

00:50:35.020 I'm not really attending to her real needs. She's hurting. Why am I not solving the problem for her?

00:50:40.280 And I have to work with him in hearing the listening process in the way I just described it

00:50:47.380 is the solution. The fixing of it leaves your wife, children, or parents feeling unheard.

00:50:56.260 People need to be heard before they are asking for a solution beyond being heard.

00:51:02.660 So let me, let me ask you a question. I think I'm getting a read on what you're saying. Are you

00:51:06.900 insinuating that we should add term limits to marriage? Absolutely not. Um, the term limits

00:51:14.140 to marriage should be, there should be no term limit to marriage. The ideal, like you get married

00:51:20.300 four years and you campaign with all the family. I think we should go one more four years.

00:51:24.400 You, you, are you saying that's a good idea? Term limits? Yeah, you can do it that way. But I think

00:51:30.100 the, the, um, I think it's the second best way of doing it. I think the best given you

00:51:35.440 a hard time. I mean, let's, let's put this way. I was, I was involved with my wife for 27

00:51:41.240 years and we took eight years before we decided to, uh, we actually got married. And during those

00:51:47.220 sort of, um, first eight years, it was sort of like, you know, re-examining whether this

00:51:52.540 was the right person for us. We were very different people. And so we really needed my couple's

00:51:57.160 communication course to really hear each other really well in order to see that, um, the

00:52:02.180 differences made much less differences, a difference in the love we had. Then, um, 17

00:52:07.240 years ago, we got married, married. And my attitude when I got married, I'm in this forever. Um,

00:52:14.260 you know, there's no, um, I may find another woman attractive, but I've made my commitment.

00:52:19.040 And, and that level of commitment that I made when I got married really was meaningful to me.

00:52:27.160 And there's, there are things that happened in the ceremony of marriage and the ceremony

00:52:30.940 of marriage. You bring the people you love and care for around you. Uh, they see you make

00:52:35.720 that commitment when you make that commitment and you see the people you love, uh, see you

00:52:40.700 make that commitment. Something changes in your brain. Your RCZ, your rostral cingulate zone

00:52:47.220 in your brain, um, is, is knowing that the people who you love are approving of you getting

00:52:55.260 married and they will approve of you more when you remain married. And that gives you a little

00:53:00.900 extra oomph to go through the hard times, um, to, um, to, to work things through that are,

00:53:07.380 that are challenging. And then we had the couples communication course where we're the, the,

00:53:12.260 the, the, the, a very disciplined process of teaching men and women how to listen to each

00:53:19.520 other, uh, that goes beyond anything that I've seen, um, so far. So let me, um, is, if you

00:53:25.160 don't mind us going to the, the, the, cause I only have like seven minutes and I want to

00:53:29.480 make sure I get these two other questions in there as well. Uh, in, on the, in the area,

00:53:33.460 uh, pay gap. So, you know, it's, it's a very common debate that you always hear on the political

00:53:38.860 side that happens. Well, women are not getting paid. It's not fair. It's not this. So one side 1.00

00:53:43.360 says female athletes should get paid as much as, uh, male athletes. And then, uh, the argument

00:53:47.780 will be made as female athletes in certain sports like gymnastics is more, but maybe in 0.98

00:53:52.340 basketball, it's not more doesn't get as many viewership as male athletes do. What, where

00:53:57.280 did this pay gap, uh, argument come in and does it have any credence? Uh, and if it does

00:54:02.860 in certain industry, is there some areas where it has no credence in? Yes. Well, first of all,

00:54:09.000 this is such an important question that I literally wrote an entire book to answer this

00:54:13.140 question called why men earn more, the startling truth behind the pay gap and what women can

00:54:18.180 do about it. And the most important part of why men earn more, I think is my discussion

00:54:23.940 of the 25 differences between what men do in the workplace and in their work life balance

00:54:32.820 and what women do in their work life balance. So some quick insights, never married men and

00:54:41.820 never married women who have never had children, the never married women out earn the never married 1.00

00:54:50.460 men by 17%. And the never married women who have never had children have out earned the never married 0.92

00:55:00.300 men who have never had children since the seventies. Wow. So that gives you some sense that it's the pay

00:55:08.620 gap predominantly is not just about these 20 is about these 25 different, um, decisions that men

00:55:15.900 and women make, but it's usually not just men and women or single men and women. It is rather married men

00:55:23.580 and women with children. The pay gap is much, much less about men and women than it is about dads versus moms.

00:55:31.180 When dads become dads, they tend to, um, give up jobs that they are fulfilling that pay less.

00:55:40.460 They love being an elementary school teacher, but they realize that being a superintendent of schools

00:55:45.340 or a principal will pay them twice as much, even though they hate administration. So they give up

00:55:50.940 becoming that passionate elementary school teacher to do something that will support their family better.

00:55:56.300 They love being a musician, an artist, a writer, or an actor. Um, but they all pay very little and

00:56:02.540 starving artists. So they give up those gigs and that those passions of fulfillment to pace, to get

00:56:09.660 something that pays more, but the more fulfilling the job, the less it pays on average, the road to high

00:56:16.780 pay is a toll road men. When they become, when they're just men who are, who don't have children,

00:56:23.900 they, they want to do what's fulfilling, like women do. But when they have children, 1.00

00:56:28.540 they're willing to give up doing what's fulfilling to, and look about the things that pay more,

00:56:32.780 that they may like a lot less, that they usually do like a lot less, work more hours than they want

00:56:38.700 to work because their job is no longer to please themselves. Their job is to make sure that their

00:56:44.300 wife and children are secure, can move to good neighborhoods with good schools, and that their wife,

00:56:49.660 that their children have opportunities that they've never had as a result of those sacrifices.

00:56:55.420 And so that's where the pay gap resides. And if you wish to really understand the pay gap,

00:57:01.820 look at those 25 differences in work life choices. And I'll explain in the why men earn more book

00:57:08.380 exactly what those differences are worth financially, and why the great majority of men

00:57:13.980 do work that they like less that earns more, and the great majority of women are more likely to do 1.00

00:57:20.300 more fulfilling jobs that earn less. And if you really do want to earn more, you could look at any

00:57:26.860 of those 25 careers and jobs and decisions that men and women make that lead to earning more money. But

00:57:34.860 usually the earning of more money leads to less fulfillment.

00:57:39.020 So I asked you earlier, I said our goal on today's Zoom is to be able to solve the boy crisis in 59

00:57:46.620 minutes. I think we're making some progress. I don't know what you say about that, but I think

00:57:50.380 we made some progress today. Doc, I appreciate you for getting on the Zoom here. I've really enjoyed

00:57:56.220 talking to you. We're going to put the link below to your book, The Boy Crisis, below for people to be

00:58:02.140 able to find it. We'll also put the link to your website where folks can go and find you. But with that

00:58:06.300 being said, thank you so much for your time and being a guest on Valuetainment.

00:58:09.980 It's a total pleasure. I also want to say that a lot of

00:58:13.020 men tell me that they commute or they're working out of the gym and the audible version is really

00:58:17.980 more helpful for them to take in the Boy Crisis book. Fantastic. We'll put the link below.

00:58:23.740 Thank you. Great to talk to you.

00:58:25.900 So do you think there's a boy crisis? Yes, there is. Thumbs up. No, I don't think there's a boy crisis.

00:58:32.300 Thumbs down. But I thought it was very interesting seeing his perspective. If you want to get his

00:58:36.540 book, we'll put the link below. If you enjoyed this interview, I did another interview with

00:58:39.420 Jordan Peterson. This was at the same event when I interviewed Kobe, the late Kobe Bryant,

00:58:45.500 and George Bush. If you've never seen this interview with Jordan Peterson, it's a must-watch.

00:58:49.660 Click over to watch it. And if you haven't subscribed to the channel, please do so.

00:58:53.100 Thanks for watching, everybody. Take care. Bye-bye.

Valuetainment - October 20, 2021

The Boy Crisis Explained - Why America is Producing Weak Men

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript