Valuetainment - The Last Jewish Gangster - How They Inspired The Italian Mafia

00:00:00.000 Every time that the Nazis would meet,

00:00:02.800 our guys would go in and beat the shit out of these Nazi bastards.

00:00:07.500 Our guys would go in with baseball bats, monkey wrenches, brass knuckles,

00:00:11.600 stink bombs to throw into the place so when they come running out,

00:00:14.900 our guys were waiting there.

00:00:16.800 What good did the mob do and what bad?

00:00:19.100 Instant justice.

00:00:20.200 You went to the powers to be because if you went through the system,

00:00:24.700 the system did shit for you.

00:00:26.400 Somebody tried to rape the guy's sister.

00:00:28.600 He goes to the bosses.

00:00:30.100 Bosses say, oh, he'll take care of that.

00:00:31.600 Now, if you went through the system with the prosecution,

00:00:34.100 the lawyers, it's an expediency.

00:00:36.400 What you can learn from an old gangster, you can never learn.

00:00:40.000 If you went to Harvard, Princeton, you have these geniuses

00:00:43.600 that go to the best universities and they can't do shit.

00:00:47.200 What was the ugliest part?

00:00:48.500 He used to send two guys to kill and two guys to do the burial.

00:00:51.700 Why?

00:00:52.600 So the two guys they killed never knew where the body was.

00:00:55.500 Can I tell you who the biggest organized crime is

00:00:58.100 in the entire world?

00:00:59.100 Who?

00:00:59.600 The government.

00:01:04.600 My guest today is a former gangster, author, entrepreneur,

00:01:07.200 father, and a grandpa.

00:01:08.400 And he wrote a book called The Chronicles of the Last Jewish Gangster

00:01:12.600 from Meyer to Myron.

00:01:14.600 Myron Sugarman, thank you for being a guest on Valley Tainment.

00:01:17.100 Okay.

00:01:18.100 Nice to be here.

00:01:19.100 And thank you very much for having me.

00:01:20.600 Yes.

00:01:21.100 So look, I've interviewed a lot of Italian mobsters, gangsters,

00:01:24.200 attorneys, you know, some gangsters from UK.

00:01:27.500 Some we've had a lot of them, but never Jewish mobs.

00:01:31.400 So if you don't mind educating myself on the audience on the history

00:01:36.000 of the Jewish mob.

00:01:37.600 Okay.

00:01:38.600 I'll be glad to.

00:01:39.600 So the Jewish mob basically starts at the time of the large immigration

00:01:47.300 from East Europe in the late 1880s, 1890s.

00:01:50.600 And of course, poverty, they come into the United States, they move into the

00:01:55.100 cities and they form the ghettos of the United States, whether it's Baltimore,

00:02:00.700 whether it's Boston, New York, Brooklyn, Detroit, Chicago, Cleveland.

00:02:04.400 And these, the original, the original Jewish gangster was really, it was brutal.

00:02:15.600 It was, it was, he was a brute, it was brutal.

00:02:19.100 In fact, there's a book that I read many, many years ago that said 25% of the prisoners

00:02:31.200 in the New York prison system were Jews.

00:02:34.900 What were the crimes?

00:02:36.900 A lot of the crimes were violence.

00:02:38.900 What year was this?

00:02:39.900 Probably at the turn of the 20th century.

00:02:42.400 Got it.

00:02:43.400 All right.

00:02:44.400 And the name of the book was called The Rise and Fall of the Jewish Gangster,

00:02:49.400 a Jewish mobster, something like that.

00:02:52.400 The interesting part about it, Patrick, was that you, they were involved in,

00:03:00.400 in all forms of, of shakedowns, violence, beatings, murders, and prostitution.

00:03:08.100 Okay.

00:03:09.100 All right.

00:03:10.100 The majority of the, of the prostitute in, in that time were Jewish women.

00:03:19.100 They'd come, they couldn't find their husbands, and the pimps would be waiting for them on the piers.

00:03:26.100 Majority of the prostitutes in the 20s were Jewish women.

00:03:29.100 Not 20s, late, late 18th, 1890s.

00:03:33.800 1890s.

00:03:34.800 1890s, 1900s.

00:03:35.800 Got it.

00:03:36.800 Got it.

00:03:37.300 Okay.

00:03:37.800 So it was really brutal crime.

00:03:39.800 Now, the generation that comes up that was either born in the United States or had recently immigrated

00:03:47.500 from Europe, let's say, for example, Meyer Lansky, Benny Siegel, Lepke, Bulkalter, my father's world, and so forth.

00:03:55.500 Some of them were born here and some were born on the other side and came as young kids.

00:04:01.500 All right.

00:04:03.200 And I'm talking now post 1900.

00:04:06.200 So these kids start as gangs and what they want, it's control of territory and neighborhoods and so forth.

00:04:13.900 And the control of the ghetto.

00:04:16.900 They had a responsibility as well.

00:04:18.900 And that was to protect the ghetto from being invaded and beat up by kids from other ethnicities.

00:04:31.600 And so the bush cart vendors and the store keepers, they would depend on these young kids to defend the neighborhood.

00:04:42.300 The young kids were responsible to take care of the fathers, the uncles, the grandparents, the cousins, and everybody.

00:04:51.300 That was the responsibility.

00:04:53.300 Instead of parents, it was the kids.

00:04:55.300 The kids that took care.

00:04:57.300 Very good point.

00:04:58.300 So there was a very, very well-known gangster from Newark.

00:05:07.800 It's amazing.

00:05:08.800 If I'll say to people, who's Abner Longis-Willemann?

00:05:13.300 If you didn't come from Jersey, you never heard of him.

00:05:16.800 He was on an equal level with Meyer Lansky, Benny Siegel.

00:05:21.300 All right?

00:05:23.300 And with Lepke Bulkalter and Murder and Corporate and so forth.

00:05:30.300 But we'll get into that.

00:05:32.300 So his name was Longi.

00:05:34.300 And where did the name Longi came from?

00:05:36.300 It came from when the old timers were being invaded by Italians or Irish or other ethnicities.

00:05:45.300 They would holler in Yiddish, rift for the longer.

00:05:49.300 Call the long one.

00:05:51.300 Longer.

00:05:52.300 So from the name Longer came the name Longi.

00:05:54.300 Abe Longis-Willemann.

00:05:56.300 And he was six foot two.

00:05:59.300 Good looking guy.

00:06:01.300 Waxed rich during the Prohibition period.

00:06:05.300 Became known as the Al Capone of New Jersey.

00:06:08.300 75-80% of the alcohol that came into Jersey came in under his rule.

00:06:15.300 Again, this is still in the 1890s.

00:06:17.300 No, this now becomes the time of the Prohibition.

00:06:20.300 Got it.

00:06:21.300 Okay.

00:06:22.300 Those kids that were gangs evolved into businessmen.

00:06:24.300 But we'll get, I just want to, before we get to anybody, as the young kids by the 1920s,

00:06:31.300 at the time of Prohibition, because the law starts in 1920, you have the old timers.

00:06:41.300 One of them in particular, Arnold Rothstein.

00:06:45.300 Arnold Rothstein was the brain.

00:06:48.300 Now, the brain was allegedly the guy that fixed the 1919 World Series together with an

00:06:55.300 ex-Jewish prizefighter by the name of Abe Attell.

00:06:58.300 This is White Sox against the Reds.

00:07:00.300 They call it the Black Sox or something like that.

00:07:01.300 Black Sox.

00:07:02.300 Right.

00:07:03.300 It was the Chicago Black Sox scandal.

00:07:05.300 Yep.

00:07:06.300 We're living in a day and age.

00:07:08.300 If I tell people what I'm going to tell you now, they're surprised.

00:07:12.300 But we had thousands and thousands of professional prizefighters.

00:07:18.300 And up until the middle of the 1930s, one third of the champions of the world were Jewish.

00:07:25.300 Up until the 1930s, one third of the prize champions were Jewish.

00:07:29.300 One third of the champions of the world were Jewish.

00:07:31.300 So very different Jewish reputation then than it is today.

00:07:35.300 Completely.

00:07:36.300 Night and day.

00:07:37.300 Completely.

00:07:38.300 Unrespected.

00:07:39.300 Moneymakers.

00:07:40.300 Racketeering.

00:07:41.300 The original mobs.

00:07:42.300 And it almost seems like when you study the history that they almost took in and they

00:07:47.300 shared their secrets and they trade secrets with the Italian and the Irish mob.

00:07:52.300 So we're going to talk about Arnold Rothstein.

00:07:55.300 So Arnold Rothstein, he didn't come from the ghetto.

00:08:00.300 He came from a middle class Jewish family, very well respected.

00:08:04.300 And he himself wanted to be an outlaw.

00:08:09.300 He's the one that actually, in fact, is responsible for the modern day mob.

00:08:18.300 He was the original money guy for bootlegging in New York.

00:08:25.300 He meets, we need young kids to protect our convoys.

00:08:30.300 So go to the gangs in the ghettos.

00:08:33.300 And if he spotted somebody with potential leadership, like Meyer Lansky or like Lucky

00:08:38.300 Luciano, he schooled them.

00:08:41.300 And he showed them, you're going to make more money with this than you're going to do

00:08:46.300 with this.

00:08:47.300 Stop being thugs.

00:08:49.300 Now you've got an opportunity to make a lot of money through prohibition.

00:08:52.300 Everybody wanted whiskey.

00:08:54.300 Everybody wanted alcohol.

00:08:56.300 So he becomes the father of the modern mob.

00:09:06.300 He got killed because he works on a card game where he claimed that the game was fixed.

00:09:16.300 They shot him.

00:09:17.300 He died with the name of a shooter on his lips.

00:09:21.300 He was true to that code.

00:09:24.300 He died.

00:09:25.300 And now you had the new guys take over.

00:09:27.300 The connection between the Jews and the Italians.

00:09:32.300 I was talking to this young fellow that you have here today and I explained the common interest

00:09:37.300 was making money.

00:09:38.300 Lucky Luciano had the brains to see that money could be made with the Jews.

00:09:44.300 And Meyer Lansky understood we can make money with the Italians instead of knocking our brains

00:09:49.300 out with each other.

00:09:50.300 Let's do it.

00:09:51.300 Let's do it.

00:09:52.300 The Italians, however, up until 1930, 1931, they were controlled by two forces.

00:09:59.300 It was called the Costa Mammare Wars.

00:10:02.300 The wars between Joe the boss Masseria and Salvator Maranzano.

00:10:08.300 They fought over the control of the young Turks.

00:10:13.300 Young Turks being Lucky Luciano, Frank Costello, Joe Adonis.

00:10:20.300 And so the competition was between those two forces from the old black hand.

00:10:26.300 They were xenophobic, meaning that they wouldn't.

00:10:30.300 We're from Sicily.

00:10:31.300 We're from this part of Sicily.

00:10:33.300 We don't want to even do business with guys from Calabria or from Naples.

00:10:38.300 Business with Jews?

00:10:40.300 Forget about it.

00:10:41.300 Forget about it.

00:10:42.300 We don't do business with Jews.

00:10:44.300 They were xenophobic.

00:10:45.300 Can you give me an idea for us today?

00:10:48.300 Okay.

00:10:49.300 So we're not there at that time.

00:10:50.300 You come from, you said January 12th, 1938?

00:10:54.300 38.

00:10:55.300 Okay.

00:10:56.300 So you've been around the block of this.

00:10:57.300 The question I want to ask you is the following.

00:10:58.300 So you say Jews and Italians.

00:11:00.300 There was some friction between the two.

00:11:02.300 Who would you compare that to today?

00:11:04.300 Is there a comparison to make that to today?

00:11:08.300 Yeah.

00:11:10.300 Over the period of post-war, World War II, you had competition.

00:11:19.300 And it's very interesting.

00:11:20.300 Good question.

00:11:21.300 You had competition between Cubans, where they were the new boys on the block post-Castro,

00:11:31.300 post-Batista.

00:11:32.300 So when the Cuban mob came here, it was formed, they called themselves La Cooperation.

00:11:38.300 They went toe-to-toe with the Italians over the number holes and over the numbers business

00:11:45.300 in New York, to the extent that they were burning down each one's number holes.

00:11:49.300 And then ultimately there was a declaration.

00:11:52.300 They sat down, they had to sit together.

00:11:55.300 The boss of the Cubans was named Jose Miguel.

00:11:58.300 Jose Miguel Batli.

00:12:00.300 And he sat with Fat Tony and they worked out a peace agreement.

00:12:04.300 The Albanians and the Italians, but it's always the Italians, the Russians and the Italians.

00:12:10.300 But ultimately the Italians, they have these, they have the structure and the power, whether

00:12:16.300 it's Puerto Ricans, whether it's Dominicans and so forth and so forth.

00:12:19.300 During that time when Lucky, you know, there's Costello himself banned, you know, Meyer,

00:12:25.300 they're sitting there and, you know, Rothstein's kind of giving them a, you know, formula.

00:12:30.300 Here's how you do it.

00:12:31.300 Here's how you make your money and don't let the two.

00:12:33.300 So in order to do that, they had to kill Joe, the boss, and they had to kill Salvatore

00:12:37.300 and Marzano.

00:12:38.300 So the first one they took out was Joe, the boss, and Coney Island, one Jew and three Italians.

00:12:46.300 Bugsy Siegel together with three Italians went, did the hit before Joe, the boss, could

00:12:52.300 eat that pasta for Bianca.

00:12:55.300 They ruined his appetite.

00:12:56.300 They killed him.

00:12:57.300 Yeah.

00:12:58.300 Then they had to take care of Salvatore Marzano.

00:13:02.300 In that particular case, Lucky Luciano, it is a good story.

00:13:06.300 He goes to Meyer Lansky and he says to them, Meyer, give me four, you guys.

00:13:10.300 Give me four Jews.

00:13:11.300 Because Salvatore Marzano will never recognize four Jews coming in dressed as IRS agents.

00:13:17.300 All right.

00:13:18.300 So Meyer Lansky is using four Jews.

00:13:22.300 Bugsy, I think one of the guys from Dutch Schultz's outfit.

00:13:27.300 I always said Louis Rush from downtown.

00:13:30.300 And the fourth guy was Sam Red Levine.

00:13:36.300 All right.

00:13:37.300 That was Meyer Lansky's favorite shooter.

00:13:40.300 Now, Sam Red Levine.

00:13:42.300 With a strong reputation.

00:13:44.300 He was a bit of a religious Jew.

00:13:46.300 Yeah.

00:13:47.300 He wore a kippah.

00:13:48.300 All right.

00:13:49.300 Ate kosher.

00:13:50.300 And used to tell Meyer Lansky, don't give me an assignment on Shabbat unless it's absolutely

00:13:56.300 necessary.

00:13:57.300 He wouldn't kill anybody on Saturday unless it had to be taken care of.

00:14:01.300 All right.

00:14:02.300 So after they killed those two guys, emerges 1930, 31, the commission and the new crime.

00:14:12.300 The five families and so forth and so forth.

00:14:14.300 That's where Lucky Luciano really gets the respect of everybody.

00:14:20.300 To bring the five.

00:14:21.300 So.

00:14:22.300 Because in fact, it was Joe the boss, Masseria, that kidnapped Salvatore Lacania.

00:14:31.300 It takes him to his warehouses and threatens him that if you don't come with me, I'm going

00:14:36.300 to kill you.

00:14:37.300 And Lucky Luciano, the name Salvatore Lacania at the time, the original name of Lucky Luciano,

00:14:43.300 says, no, I'm not going with you today.

00:14:47.300 Sliced them up, left them for dead.

00:14:49.300 And that's how he got the name Lucky.

00:14:51.300 He was lucky to survive.

00:14:53.300 That's when he went to Meyer and to Benny, to Bugsy, and says, guys, God bless you.

00:15:00.300 We'll never succeed as long as we're under the limitations of the repression of these old

00:15:08.300 xenophobic dinosaurs.

00:15:09.300 Got to get rid of them.

00:15:11.300 Said, I got rid of them.

00:15:13.300 And that's where the Jews and the Italians had a good understanding and excellent understanding

00:15:21.300 that we're going to cooperate.

00:15:23.300 And cooperation means more money.

00:15:25.300 All right.

00:15:26.300 Because violence is no good.

00:15:29.300 Violence interferes.

00:15:31.300 That's why when I was telling you the story between the Italians and the Cubans.

00:15:36.300 See, this Jose Miguel Botley was a hero in the Bay of Pigs.

00:15:41.300 He was one of the commanding officers of that unit 4863 or whatever that was, that was part

00:15:48.300 of the invasion of Bay of Pigs.

00:15:50.300 He was a CIA guy.

00:15:52.300 So when he came back to the United States, they were, the deal was negotiated so that money

00:16:01.300 in medicine went to Cuba to release the guys that were locked up the prisoners on the Bay

00:16:07.300 of Pigs.

00:16:08.300 Jose Miguel comes back and forms what's known as La Corporacion.

00:16:12.300 The corporation.

00:16:13.300 All right.

00:16:14.300 And they start getting aggressive in terms of putting out the, the buying, the number

00:16:21.300 holes.

00:16:22.300 Number holes meaning the illegal lottery.

00:16:24.300 Now, my involvement, my friendship was with everybody because I was the, the, um, the

00:16:31.300 founding father of the gambling machine business.

00:16:33.300 I brought back the slot machines from the time that LaGuardia knocked them out in 1941

00:16:39.300 eliminated Meyer Lansky and Frank Costello.

00:16:42.300 I, in 1977, started to put out the first slot machines again.

00:16:47.300 Um, I was a pioneer.

00:16:50.300 So people say to me, where did you get the idea?

00:16:53.300 Do you get the balls to do something like that as well?

00:16:56.300 I used to go all over the world.

00:16:58.300 I've been to 70 countries.

00:17:00.300 I speak every language on the face of the earth and I did business all over the world,

00:17:04.300 which I learned from my father.

00:17:06.300 My father was in the jukebox of vending and cigarette machine business going back prior

00:17:11.300 to 1938.

00:17:13.300 His original partner was Doc Statcher and Abe Green.

00:17:17.300 Doc Statcher was the original partner with that gentleman I mentioned before, Longies Willman.

00:17:22.300 Right?

00:17:23.300 By the way, Longies Willman waxed extremely rich during the time of prohibition and whack,

00:17:31.300 and he was one of the big financiers of the Hollywood movies.

00:17:35.300 Uh, he had a love affair with Gene Harlow.

00:17:38.300 He made a great success out of Gene Harlow.

00:17:41.300 He, uh, he is, she was the, the Marilyn Monroe of her time.

00:17:47.300 So, um, Doc Statcher was the original partner of my father and Longies Willman.

00:17:54.300 Longies Willman, they split it.

00:17:56.300 Longies took the cigarette machine business and my father's was the jukebox business.

00:18:02.300 And how did Longies take the, we had Murder Incorporated.

00:18:07.300 It should be people just, I'm sure a lot of people are going to be watching this and say,

00:18:13.300 I never knew all of this stuff.

00:18:15.300 The Jews were that tough.

00:18:16.300 We had as many shooters and maybe more than the Italians.

00:18:21.300 We had so many guys that were prize fighters.

00:18:24.300 Another thing in the 1930s.

00:18:27.300 All right.

00:18:28.300 This is a fantastic story and nobody knows about it.

00:18:32.300 With the rise of nationalist socialist ideology in Germany, they come to the United States.

00:18:42.300 We had a guy by the name of Fritz Kuhn.

00:18:45.300 K-U-H-N.

00:18:46.300 All right.

00:18:47.300 He declares himself as the Hitler of America.

00:18:51.300 And he starts to rally, um, and bring together, um, the recent immigrants that came post World War

00:19:03.300 One after the defeat of the Kaiser Wilhelm.

00:19:06.300 Uh, we had a tremendous amount of Germans that came to the United States.

00:19:11.300 Newark, New Jersey was originally a large German population.

00:19:15.300 We had beer gardens.

00:19:17.300 The Brit, they call themselves the brown shirts.

00:19:20.300 All right.

00:19:21.300 And-

00:19:22.300 Brown shirts.

00:19:23.300 The brown shirts.

00:19:24.300 Brown shirts.

00:19:25.300 All right.

00:19:26.300 And it was called the Bund, B-O-N-D, which means the organization in, in German.

00:19:30.300 And they would start beating up on Jews.

00:19:34.300 My father was part of a, an organization called the Minute Men.

00:19:39.300 The Minute Men were all under the supervision, all under the administration of Longies Wilmen.

00:19:47.300 And they formed an organization called the Minute Men, which in a minute's notice, just

00:19:52.300 like in the Revolutionary War, you would have men available in a matter of a minute to go

00:19:57.300 fight the British.

00:19:58.300 And the British, our guys went to fight the American Nazi Party.

00:20:02.300 There was a book called The Nazis in Newark, written by a dear friend of mine, Warren Grover,

00:20:08.300 that relates exactly every time that the Nazis would meet, our guys would go in and beat the shit out of these Nazi bastards.

00:20:17.300 All right.

00:20:18.300 And this went on throughout the entire 1930s.

00:20:21.300 Meyer Lansky took on the Nazis in Yorkville, up on First Avenue and 86th Street.

00:20:30.300 Beat the shit out of them up there.

00:20:34.300 It went on in Minneapolis, in Chicago.

00:20:39.300 Define beat the shit out of them.

00:20:41.300 Define beat the shit out of them.

00:20:42.300 What does that mean?

00:20:43.300 What does beat the shit out of them mean?

00:20:44.300 Our guys would go in with, with baseball bats.

00:20:46.300 They'd go in with monkey wrenches, with brass knuckles, stink bombs to throw into the place.

00:20:51.300 So when they come running out, our guys were waiting there, all right?

00:20:56.300 Rising antisemitism today, people say, oh my God, you know.

00:21:01.300 You know.

00:21:02.300 But in that time, Jews were responding to it.

00:21:06.300 The mob in Minneapolis, Dave Berman, Herman Pastors, Sam Turan, wherever the silver shirts,

00:21:19.300 another antisemitic organization would meet, our guys were there to beat the shit out of them.

00:21:26.300 In Chicago, there was a very famous prize fighter, triple crown champion, hero at Guadalcanal by the name of Barney Ross.

00:21:34.300 Great American hero.

00:21:36.300 He fought at Guadalcanal when he was in his thirties.

00:21:40.300 He was a hero at Guadalcanal.

00:21:43.300 In the time of the Nazis, they beat up, they fought the antisemites, the Jew haters in Chicago.

00:21:52.300 One of the guys that fought together with Barney Ross was Jacob Rubenstein.

00:21:57.300 Some people say, who the hell was Jacob Rubenstein?

00:22:00.300 I said, let me make it easy for you.

00:22:02.300 Jack Ruby.

00:22:03.300 He said, son of a bitch, Jack Ruby.

00:22:06.300 Yeah.

00:22:07.300 He was a Jewish hero.

00:22:09.300 All right?

00:22:10.300 Bit of a new crazy guy, but...

00:22:12.300 He was a Jewish hero, Jack Ruby.

00:22:15.300 He fought together with all the Jews to defend against antisemites.

00:22:20.300 How different was the Jewish community in the thirties versus today?

00:22:26.300 So when you're hearing it, hey, antisemite, you know, hey, you know, who you guys are going out there fighting, beating the shit out of everybody versus today, you hear the same message and criticism.

00:22:36.300 How different are the communities between those 80 years?

00:22:39.300 Well, I think the economics was so much different today.

00:22:44.300 For example, the attacks on antisemitism today in the United States are against identifiable Jews, meaning people that cover their heads, black suits, beards.

00:23:04.300 They're identifiable, and they're in the inner cities.

00:23:08.300 They're sharing geography.

00:23:10.300 All right?

00:23:11.300 Let's say whether it's Williamsburg, whether it's Brown Heights, Borough Park, and so forth and so forth.

00:23:16.300 They're being attacked.

00:23:18.300 The Jews in the suburbs haven't really felt it yet.

00:23:23.300 All right?

00:23:24.300 Because nobody's going into the wealthy suburban neighborhoods and attacking Jews there.

00:23:30.300 All right?

00:23:31.300 There's the antisemitism.

00:23:33.300 Hasn't spread to that point.

00:23:35.300 The question you're asking me about 80 years ago is that everybody was sharing territory in those days.

00:23:42.300 All right?

00:23:43.300 So whether you're identifiable or not, you knew that this was a Jewish neighborhood, and there was the question of, well, we're going to go in there, and we're going to attack Jews.

00:23:56.300 All right?

00:23:57.300 So there was a need for that kind of defense.

00:24:02.300 Going back to the names you mentioned, and by the way, I want you to finish the story about yourself in 1977 when you said you were doing the slot machines, and that's kind of how you brought it up.

00:24:10.300 You were a pioneer.

00:24:11.300 How big did that get, and what kind of money were you making at the peak?

00:24:14.300 It was so huge.

00:24:15.300 It was so gigantic.

00:24:17.300 They should build a statue for me because I made a lot of guys rich.

00:24:21.300 All right?

00:24:22.300 Zillions of guys.

00:24:25.300 What we were doing was we were taking, we started with slot machines and evolved into video poker machine, and that just broke everything open.

00:24:36.300 And when the technology changed and we had a bill acceptor, you could start putting ones, fives, tens, twenties.

00:24:45.300 Oh, my God.

00:24:46.300 That's a big deal at that time.

00:24:47.300 Oh, my God.

00:24:48.300 Oh, my God.

00:24:49.300 You didn't have to go collecting coins.

00:24:51.300 You were collecting now bills.

00:24:53.300 So we calculate that at a certain point in history, we have no fixed figures, but between the fellows that were manufacturing, supplying, and there could have been 200,000 machines throughout the entire city of New York.

00:25:11.300 And again, people say, oh, I never saw it.

00:25:13.300 How are you going to see it?

00:25:14.300 Because if you're living on Park Avenue, you're not going to see it.

00:25:17.300 But if you were living in Washington Heights, you walked into every bodega, had slot machines in the back rooms.

00:25:24.300 200,000.

00:25:25.300 Wow.

00:25:26.300 Figure 200,000 and figure each machine average approximately $500 per week per machine.

00:25:35.300 So take 200,000 machines and multiply it by $500.

00:25:39.300 Now, 50% went to the store owner and 50% went to the operator.

00:25:46.300 That business flourished for years, but until it became too competitive, as it became super competitive, that's where the conflicts began.

00:25:57.300 So that's 100 million a week.

00:25:59.300 50 million went to the store.

00:26:01.300 50 million.

00:26:02.300 You mean to tell me you guys were doing 50 a week?

00:26:04.300 So that was between a million, endless number of operators.

00:26:09.300 I wasn't the only operator.

00:26:11.300 I was the grandfather of it all.

00:26:13.300 All right.

00:26:14.300 But everybody went into it.

00:26:16.300 Italians, Dominicans, Puerto Ricans.

00:26:18.300 I got what you're saying.

00:26:19.300 Russians, Israelis.

00:26:20.300 Got it.

00:26:21.300 Everybody.

00:26:22.300 So everybody was kind of sharing that together, the 50 a week that was coming in.

00:26:24.300 How much of that 50 was going to you at that time?

00:26:27.300 Oh, probably.

00:26:28.300 Maybe.

00:26:29.300 Well, I had New York, I would say, between sales operation, over 100,000.

00:26:43.300 A week.

00:26:44.300 Yeah.

00:26:45.300 So you're making 100,000 a week in the 80s.

00:26:47.300 Yeah.

00:26:48.300 And what's your life like at the time?

00:26:49.300 I mean, listen, even off camera, I watch you.

00:26:51.300 You have charisma.

00:26:52.300 You're charming.

00:26:53.300 You're mad.

00:26:54.300 You can use the words.

00:26:56.300 You're very well-spoken.

00:26:57.300 So how was your life like?

00:26:59.300 So I'm a bit of a unique kind of a character because I never went higher than in terms of

00:27:11.300 the kind of lifestyle and no country club, none of this.

00:27:16.300 I'm a street guy.

00:27:17.300 I'm an educated street guy, one of the most educated in terms of everything, Jewish history,

00:27:24.300 world of events, current and so forth and so forth.

00:27:27.300 So I pursued a lot of that as far as life concerned.

00:27:30.300 But you were not living a lavish lifestyle.

00:27:32.300 No, not at all.

00:27:33.300 The ladies, the party and all that stuff.

00:27:34.300 That wasn't real.

00:27:35.300 I'm an heir to an old school Jewish girl from Buenos Aires whose family was from Poland.

00:27:41.300 And if we would have told her, come here today, Patrick is going to interview you.

00:27:51.300 She would run the other side of America.

00:27:54.300 Why is that?

00:27:55.300 She's old school.

00:27:56.300 She wants nothing.

00:27:57.300 She don't want none of this world.

00:27:58.300 But was she a strong personality though?

00:28:00.300 Very strong.

00:28:01.300 Okay.

00:28:02.300 She worked in a slot machine business in Buenos Aires as the bookkeeper.

00:28:05.300 That's how I met her.

00:28:06.300 Got it.

00:28:07.300 Got it.

00:28:08.300 So during this time when you're making that kind of money, did you ever get caught?

00:28:10.300 Did you do time?

00:28:11.300 Did you ever get in trouble?

00:28:12.300 I had three state cases and three federal cases.

00:28:14.300 I was a revolutionary.

00:28:15.300 Every time they locked me up, I was back the next day opening, doing business.

00:28:19.300 Got it.

00:28:20.300 I was just a defiant sort of a guy.

00:28:23.300 And I did time.

00:28:25.300 The last case was a federal case.

00:28:28.300 I had a federal case in Washington, D.C.

00:28:31.300 And you'll get a kick out of this one.

00:28:33.300 The name of the judge was Harold Green.

00:28:35.300 Harold Green was the guy that broke up the ATT monopoly.

00:28:39.300 And he had the Iran-Contra affair.

00:28:42.300 He was the judge in that.

00:28:43.300 Wow.

00:28:44.300 So he was my judge.

00:28:46.300 I get locked up with an old time mob guy by the name of Joe, Joe the Possum there's line.

00:28:52.300 All right.

00:28:53.300 For promoting slot machines, Joe was probably a little bit senile at the time.

00:29:01.300 He introduced me to an undercover FBI agent.

00:29:05.300 And I'm going all over Washington, D.C.

00:29:08.300 And going to black locations.

00:29:11.300 Come on, bro.

00:29:13.300 Put my machine in.

00:29:14.300 He said, OK, Pop, I'm going to argue with you.

00:29:17.300 You look like you with the man.

00:29:19.300 I said, well, of course I'm with the man.

00:29:21.300 That's it.

00:29:22.300 You're putting machines.

00:29:23.300 I'm going to put machines here, put machines there.

00:29:24.300 Meantime, this FBI agent's all locked up.

00:29:27.300 I got locked up.

00:29:29.300 All right.

00:29:30.300 Harold Green is the judge.

00:29:32.300 And the prosecutor is a young Jewish woman.

00:29:36.300 I'm being real kind about it.

00:29:39.300 She falls in love with me.

00:29:41.300 All right.

00:29:42.300 She's enchanted with me.

00:29:44.300 And she ain't going to screw me one way.

00:29:46.300 She's going to screw me the other way.

00:29:48.300 She says, you're the Meyer Lansky of our time.

00:29:51.300 And you know what?

00:29:53.300 I'm going to prosecute you.

00:29:55.300 I'm going to get.

00:29:56.300 So.

00:30:00.300 Mike, my kid, the cousin was my lawyer.

00:30:02.300 And he says to me, we had a plea bargain.

00:30:04.300 There was no way I was going to win this particular case.

00:30:07.300 The FBI had me under.

00:30:09.300 So my kid cousin says to me, get in touch with your friend,

00:30:15.300 Simon Wiesenthal.

00:30:17.300 The Nazi hunter.

00:30:20.300 So I contact Dr. Wiesenthal.

00:30:23.300 He says, I'm in trouble.

00:30:24.300 He says, what do you need?

00:30:25.300 I said, I need a letter.

00:30:26.300 He said, no problem.

00:30:27.300 He writes a letter to Judge Green.

00:30:30.300 And he says, this is the man that helps me pursue Nazi war criminals in South America.

00:30:37.300 Right?

00:30:38.300 He's my man.

00:30:39.300 It's in my book.

00:30:40.300 The letter that Wiesenthal writes to Judge Green.

00:30:45.300 Judge Green turns out that he is an escapee from Nazi Germany.

00:30:51.300 He was a Kennedy Democratic Party appointee.

00:30:54.300 Wow.

00:30:55.300 Interesting.

00:30:56.300 He gets the letter from Simon Wiesenthal and calls this girl.

00:31:00.300 I don't want to hurt her feelings or damage her terrible reputation any worse than it already is.

00:31:07.300 And he says, ladies, what am I going to do with this letter?

00:31:10.300 She says, the letter is false.

00:31:13.300 It's counterfeit.

00:31:14.300 She says, go prove it.

00:31:16.300 Anyways, to make a long story short, she runs back in.

00:31:19.300 She spoke to somebody.

00:31:21.300 She said, how do I know what was Simon Wiesenthal?

00:31:24.300 Judge says, get the hell out of here.

00:31:26.300 You called him or he called you.

00:31:28.300 She says, no, I called.

00:31:29.300 Get out.

00:31:30.300 Get out.

00:31:31.300 This is not authentic.

00:31:32.300 Right.

00:31:33.300 They have sentencing, as we plead bargain.

00:31:37.300 The door opens in the chambers of the law of the court.

00:31:41.300 And there's a girl comes out and she's smiling at me.

00:31:48.300 And my kid cousin says to me, he says, cuz, you know that girl over there?

00:31:53.400 She's smiling.

00:31:54.260 He says, listen, cuz, that's not unusual.

00:31:57.420 I get smiled at all the time by young, pretty women.

00:32:03.180 Anyways, go in front of the judge.

00:32:06.800 And in my sentencing report, it says,

00:32:10.740 cuz, Mr. Sugarman is a close, intimate associate of Vincent Jimmy Blue Eyes Alloy.

00:32:19.100 My kid cousin says to me, cuz, you really know Jimmy Blue Eyes?

00:32:23.400 Cuz, I never met the man in my life.

00:32:26.320 He says, but it says, cuz, I'm telling you, I never met Jimmy Blue Eyes.

00:32:31.280 All right.

00:32:32.720 So, this prosecutor, she says to Judge Green, she says,

00:32:38.660 oh, Judge Green says,

00:32:43.200 by the mere mention of a few Italian-sounding names,

00:32:48.460 the government has failed to convince this courtroom that Mr. Sugarman

00:32:52.860 is a member of organized crime.

00:32:55.740 Anyways, he gives me five years probation.

00:32:58.000 All right.

00:32:59.480 Two weeks later, I get a phone call.

00:33:01.580 Billy Kane, it's Memorial Day weekend, 1997.

00:33:06.180 No, 1987.

00:33:09.760 Meet me at the Bayway Diner in Elizabeth.

00:33:12.640 I meet him at the Bayway Diner.

00:33:14.600 So, that pretty little girl was my half-sister.

00:33:17.340 She's a judge.

00:33:18.280 She was Judge Green's.

00:33:20.600 Billy Kane worked.

00:33:21.920 He worked for the Gambino Brothers on 18th Avenue,

00:33:24.940 fixing the slot machines.

00:33:26.860 He liked me.

00:33:28.360 He says, oh, tell his sister,

00:33:29.960 you tell Judge Green, he's such a good guy,

00:33:33.740 that's myron.

00:33:34.580 He teaches all the slot machine operas

00:33:37.520 how to rig slot machines so that the jackpots

00:33:40.160 never pay out.

00:33:41.960 So, the jackpots never what?

00:33:43.760 Never pay out.

00:33:44.840 So, anyways, a few years later,

00:33:53.260 I'm in a gaslight restaurant,

00:33:58.460 a Chinese restaurant in Miami Beach.

00:34:03.560 It was a guy who was a Chinese girl

00:34:05.160 from Elizabeth, New Jersey,

00:34:06.440 Christine Lee, she owned the place.

00:34:08.240 And I'm wearing all the old-timers.

00:34:11.560 And so, one of the people tells me,

00:34:13.640 you know, who's at the table there?

00:34:17.300 I don't know.

00:34:18.180 You don't know who that is?

00:34:19.300 Jimmy Blue Eyes.

00:34:20.480 Jimmy Blue Eyes.

00:34:21.560 Oh, interesting.

00:34:22.660 Now, come on.

00:34:23.360 He knew your father.

00:34:24.360 Let's go over.

00:34:25.020 I'll introduce you.

00:34:25.960 Nah, let him.

00:34:26.660 He's with a woman.

00:34:27.460 Let him enjoy his dinner.

00:34:30.180 So, about two more years later,

00:34:33.820 a fellow, a very good guy,

00:34:35.140 Robbie Margolis says,

00:34:36.520 Myra, meet me at the Hilton Hotel.

00:34:39.160 We're going to have lunch today.

00:34:40.640 We're Jimmy Blue Eyes.

00:34:42.280 So, fine.

00:34:43.840 Now, he's late.

00:34:47.000 Robbie goes downstairs

00:34:48.280 to make a phone call from the phone booth.

00:34:50.780 Who walks in?

00:34:51.620 Jimmy Blue Eyes.

00:34:52.400 I run over.

00:34:52.900 Jimmy, how are you?

00:34:55.060 He said, who the fuck are you?

00:34:57.640 I said, Jimmy, what do you mean,

00:34:59.120 who are we?

00:35:00.000 I'm your close, intimate associate.

00:35:02.240 He says to me, are you fucking drunk?

00:35:04.020 I never met you in my life.

00:35:06.520 And then I tell him the story

00:35:07.660 about how on the sentencing report

00:35:10.920 it says that Myron Sugarman

00:35:13.040 is a close, intimate associate

00:35:15.080 of Jimmy Blue Eyes.

00:35:17.020 Listen, the government does

00:35:18.180 what it's got to do

00:35:19.200 and we have to do

00:35:20.260 what we got to do

00:35:21.260 and that's life.

00:35:23.040 And you take it with a grain of salt.

00:35:24.860 Your experience.

00:35:25.720 Who was dirtier over the years?

00:35:26.940 The government or the mobsters?

00:35:28.480 The gangsters?

00:35:29.800 Both.

00:35:30.140 Who was more creative?

00:35:31.520 Gangsters.

00:35:39.240 What you can learn

00:35:40.360 from an old gangster,

00:35:43.680 you can never learn

00:35:44.780 if you went to Harvard,

00:35:46.800 Princeton, Pennsylvania University,

00:35:49.240 Wharton School of Business

00:35:50.380 and so forth.

00:35:53.100 There was an old timer

00:35:54.240 by the name of Jake Mohawk

00:35:55.540 from Newark, a bookmaker.

00:35:57.840 And he used to say,

00:35:58.760 you see these guys over here?

00:36:00.120 Um, they didn't even

00:36:03.480 graduate sixth grade

00:36:04.620 and they have the ability

00:36:06.700 to sit down, right?

00:36:08.860 And negotiate a peace agreement.

00:36:12.180 You have these geniuses

00:36:13.620 that go to the best universities,

00:36:15.640 Georgetown University,

00:36:16.720 go to this one,

00:36:17.640 School of Diplomacy

00:36:18.700 and they can't do shit.

00:36:21.400 He says, isn't it amazing?

00:36:23.460 These old timers

00:36:24.500 without any education whatsoever

00:36:27.100 can sit down

00:36:28.520 and come to an agreement,

00:36:30.280 shake hands on it.

00:36:31.800 And that handshake

00:36:32.980 is worth more

00:36:33.840 than all the papers

00:36:35.080 on the face of the earth

00:36:36.400 made by the greatest lawyers.

00:36:38.900 So from that particular

00:36:39.860 point of view,

00:36:40.720 it's quite a story.

00:36:42.000 I mean, I went to many,

00:36:43.080 many sit downs

00:36:43.880 and of course,

00:36:45.460 it's very interesting.

00:36:47.060 I was with a guy,

00:36:49.020 my grandson

00:36:50.000 that I call Louis Streaky,

00:36:51.400 that's the guy I was with

00:36:52.460 from Patterson, New Jersey.

00:36:55.300 Super professional.

00:36:56.360 Super professional.

00:36:58.300 So when we used

00:36:59.240 to have a sit down

00:37:00.080 dispute over territories

00:37:01.540 and so forth and so forth,

00:37:03.000 it was wonderful.

00:37:04.700 You could not have a discussion

00:37:07.360 until you had

00:37:08.660 your bowl of pasta,

00:37:10.700 your bread,

00:37:12.300 your olive oil,

00:37:14.040 your olives,

00:37:15.320 and then your wine,

00:37:17.320 and then your espresso coffee.

00:37:19.120 And in the process

00:37:20.060 of that hour and a half

00:37:21.120 before you would start

00:37:22.160 talking business,

00:37:23.300 what would you talk about?

00:37:24.540 Well, we talk about baseball.

00:37:26.060 You talk about broads.

00:37:27.060 You talk about boxers.

00:37:28.200 You talk about prize fighters.

00:37:30.140 You would talk about nothing

00:37:31.420 that we were ready

00:37:33.180 to talk about.

00:37:34.080 Now, when the plates were cleaned

00:37:36.680 and the waiters

00:37:37.520 took away everything,

00:37:38.700 then starts the procedures.

00:37:42.660 And it went like this.

00:37:44.660 Gentlemen,

00:37:46.180 remember, we're not lawyers.

00:37:48.580 All right?

00:37:49.100 If it could be said

00:37:50.000 in 10 words,

00:37:51.340 don't use 11.

00:37:52.180 Number two,

00:37:54.760 they put erasers

00:37:55.940 on the back of pencils

00:37:57.400 for the purpose

00:37:58.620 of erasing a mistake.

00:38:01.960 Number three,

00:38:03.460 what can never be erased

00:38:05.060 is a lie.

00:38:08.380 Do I make myself clear?

00:38:10.780 Gentlemen,

00:38:11.680 let the proceedings begin.

00:38:13.400 You brought the beef

00:38:14.380 against this guy.

00:38:16.060 You go first.

00:38:17.100 And these old-timers,

00:38:22.020 they knew how

00:38:23.000 they were great

00:38:24.820 to watch them

00:38:25.580 and to negotiate

00:38:26.540 back and forth

00:38:27.500 and so forth

00:38:28.300 and so forth.

00:38:29.100 And at the end,

00:38:30.920 everybody,

00:38:32.820 I had a major sit-down

00:38:35.020 two times.

00:38:36.120 And the last time

00:38:36.880 was with,

00:38:38.060 each time was with

00:38:39.440 a fellow by the name

00:38:40.280 of Jimmy Brown.

00:38:42.140 Jimmy Fiala,

00:38:43.380 that was the acting boss

00:38:45.160 of Gambino

00:38:46.620 after John Gotti

00:38:47.840 went to jail.

00:38:48.860 Got it.

00:38:49.960 He was fabulous.

00:38:51.600 He was on the other side.

00:38:53.080 He was Gambino.

00:38:54.920 I loved that old man.

00:38:57.340 At the end,

00:38:59.340 I said something

00:39:00.980 that struck a real

00:39:03.040 positive chord with him.

00:39:06.160 I told this guy,

00:39:07.460 anytime you need

00:39:08.480 my mechanics,

00:39:10.100 you call me

00:39:11.140 before you take them

00:39:12.200 on your own, right?

00:39:14.540 Jimmy Fiala,

00:39:16.640 he says,

00:39:17.540 he turns to his guy

00:39:18.540 and he says,

00:39:19.800 I like this fucking Jew.

00:39:22.380 All right?

00:39:22.940 He's a smart fucking kid.

00:39:25.620 And then he turns to me.

00:39:26.660 He says,

00:39:26.780 what do you want, kid?

00:39:27.940 What can I do for you?

00:39:29.340 I says,

00:39:29.900 well,

00:39:30.800 you know,

00:39:31.760 Mr. Brown,

00:39:32.420 he says,

00:39:32.600 oh, call me Mr. Brown,

00:39:33.780 you call me Jimmy.

00:39:35.040 I said,

00:39:35.420 you're smoking

00:39:35.880 some nice cigars today.

00:39:37.320 He says,

00:39:37.700 you like them, huh?

00:39:38.800 Here you go, kid.

00:39:39.660 He grabs a bunch of cigars

00:39:41.040 and he tells Louie Redd,

00:39:42.560 you're lucky you got this kid.

00:39:44.160 This kid is good.

00:39:45.200 He's good.

00:39:46.220 He's good.

00:39:46.840 Because I wasn't greedy

00:39:48.260 and I understood the rules,

00:39:50.700 the regulations

00:39:51.380 and so forth.

00:39:53.440 And you,

00:39:54.200 life is very fascinating

00:39:55.920 in that world.

00:39:58.980 Everything's,

00:39:59.660 you have to be super honest.

00:40:01.380 There's an old song

00:40:02.260 that was a,

00:40:03.480 what was it?

00:40:04.760 The kid from,

00:40:07.160 from Minnesota,

00:40:07.820 the Jewish kid,

00:40:08.780 Zimmerman,

00:40:10.080 I can't even,

00:40:10.780 Bob Dylan,

00:40:12.360 had a song

00:40:13.100 with the words were,

00:40:14.780 if you're going to be out,

00:40:15.920 you're going to live

00:40:16.400 outside the law,

00:40:17.580 you better be honest.

00:40:19.660 And that's the rules

00:40:20.800 as far as life is concerned

00:40:22.400 within that world.

00:40:24.040 Now,

00:40:24.400 is there treachery?

00:40:25.600 Is there deceit?

00:40:26.940 Is there breaking of honor

00:40:28.580 and so forth?

00:40:29.320 Yeah.

00:40:29.880 Yeah.

00:40:30.220 It's human.

00:40:31.200 It's all part

00:40:31.980 of the human process.

00:40:33.900 So,

00:40:35.420 when you ask the question

00:40:39.420 as far as the government

00:40:40.600 is concerned,

00:40:42.020 they got all the power,

00:40:43.320 all the time,

00:40:44.100 all the power,

00:40:44.780 all the strength,

00:40:46.060 all the witnesses

00:40:46.920 and so forth.

00:40:48.500 So that

00:40:49.180 when a guy

00:40:50.700 would go to trial,

00:40:52.520 all right,

00:40:53.240 he was dead.

00:40:54.720 He had a 3% chance

00:40:56.540 of winning.

00:40:57.020 It's 97% chance

00:40:58.700 that the government's

00:40:59.980 going to win

00:41:00.360 in a trial.

00:41:01.120 So that's why

00:41:01.520 the plea bargain.

00:41:02.440 Everybody plea bargains.

00:41:03.680 That's a casino.

00:41:04.460 That's a good odds

00:41:05.340 on your end.

00:41:05.940 The house wins.

00:41:07.100 97% chance.

00:41:09.280 They got it all.

00:41:10.620 Yeah.

00:41:10.980 They have it all

00:41:11.740 and if they don't have it,

00:41:13.400 it's just like that,

00:41:14.740 like the sentence report.

00:41:16.900 Yeah.

00:41:17.640 Let's go back.

00:41:18.600 I got a few things

00:41:19.220 I want to cover with you

00:41:19.980 and we'll be,

00:41:20.460 you know,

00:41:20.620 we'll wrap up here shortly.

00:41:22.260 So going back

00:41:23.380 to the most powerful

00:41:24.240 Jewish gangsters

00:41:25.120 of all time.

00:41:25.720 So if you ask

00:41:26.200 the average person,

00:41:26.980 they're going to say who?

00:41:27.680 Meyer Lansky

00:41:28.360 is going to come up.

00:41:29.660 Lepke is going to come up

00:41:30.820 who made a lot of money

00:41:32.520 in racketeering,

00:41:34.240 what he was doing,

00:41:34.880 but he was a family man.

00:41:35.880 He rarely drank,

00:41:36.860 didn't do drugs.

00:41:37.680 He was a guy that was,

00:41:38.640 you know,

00:41:39.380 pretty steady.

00:41:40.140 And then you go hear

00:41:40.800 about Ben Siegel,

00:41:41.860 strong,

00:41:42.340 hit man,

00:41:42.820 tough guy,

00:41:43.260 good looking,

00:41:44.220 good with the ladies.

00:41:45.080 Virginia Hill kind of,

00:41:46.200 you know,

00:41:47.040 cause the fall for him.

00:41:49.200 Who else would you put

00:41:50.340 on the list

00:41:51.080 of the most powerful

00:41:53.340 Jewish mobsters

00:41:54.280 of all time

00:41:54.840 and what did each of them

00:41:56.080 have that was unique

00:41:57.160 compared to their peers?

00:41:59.800 So there is no

00:42:01.300 Jewish gangster anymore.

00:42:03.160 So I really,

00:42:04.120 I am the tail end

00:42:05.400 because a Jewish,

00:42:08.320 a real Jewish gangster

00:42:09.480 on that level,

00:42:10.920 they were also patriots,

00:42:12.480 American patriots

00:42:13.340 and Jewish patriots.

00:42:14.620 It wasn't just

00:42:15.180 the question of money.

00:42:16.640 Meyer Lansky,

00:42:17.360 for example,

00:42:18.240 Longy Zwillman,

00:42:19.220 they fought

00:42:21.700 the American Nazi Party.

00:42:23.340 They cooperated

00:42:24.400 with the United States

00:42:25.380 government

00:42:25.840 in operation

00:42:27.080 on the world

00:42:27.760 in World War II

00:42:28.700 and they supplied

00:42:30.320 weapons and arms

00:42:31.680 to Haganah

00:42:32.900 and to Ergun

00:42:33.880 to help create

00:42:35.140 the state of Israel

00:42:36.180 post-World War II

00:42:38.400 pre-state,

00:42:40.360 in Palestine,

00:42:41.460 pre-state Israel.

00:42:43.560 That's the reason

00:42:44.480 why I was involved

00:42:45.540 deeply with

00:42:46.280 Simon Wiesenthal

00:42:48.040 so that I could

00:42:50.860 do my share

00:42:52.320 of,

00:42:53.480 let's say,

00:42:56.620 participation

00:42:57.380 as far as

00:42:58.220 Jewish,

00:42:59.640 above and beyond.

00:43:01.300 So it wasn't

00:43:02.780 just a question

00:43:03.800 that they were

00:43:05.020 protecting the neighborhood

00:43:06.080 or protecting

00:43:06.640 the Jewish community

00:43:07.440 and so forth.

00:43:08.280 It went beyond that.

00:43:09.520 There was a tremendous

00:43:10.580 amount of patriotism

00:43:11.820 that was,

00:43:13.400 people are going to

00:43:14.360 watch this

00:43:14.820 and say,

00:43:15.040 oh,

00:43:15.820 kind of patriots

00:43:16.640 and they were

00:43:17.180 gangsters.

00:43:20.200 There's a Talmudic

00:43:21.960 wisdom

00:43:22.780 that says

00:43:23.520 life is not

00:43:24.480 either black

00:43:25.240 and it's neither white.

00:43:26.680 It's all shades

00:43:27.480 of gray.

00:43:28.620 And everything

00:43:29.200 as far as life

00:43:30.160 is concerned,

00:43:31.040 there's no way

00:43:31.840 that you're going

00:43:32.300 to have it

00:43:32.680 specifically black

00:43:33.860 and specifically

00:43:35.100 white.

00:43:36.480 You're going to

00:43:37.260 have it

00:43:37.680 of all different shades.

00:43:39.660 That's the human

00:43:40.520 existence.

00:43:41.120 You want

00:43:42.020 perfect truth?

00:43:43.420 When we go

00:43:43.880 off to heaven

00:43:44.340 and you know,

00:43:44.920 that's perfect truth.

00:43:47.920 When you're dying,

00:43:49.380 you're closed out.

00:43:51.700 Great.

00:43:52.360 A lot of gray.

00:43:53.820 You know,

00:43:54.740 I've spoken to

00:43:56.280 Sammy

00:43:57.340 and we've had him on

00:43:58.720 and we've done

00:43:59.780 a lot of different

00:44:00.320 things together

00:44:00.940 with our interviews

00:44:02.340 and now he's got

00:44:04.140 his own channel.

00:44:04.820 He's doing stuff.

00:44:05.420 Michael Francis,

00:44:06.900 Kalata,

00:44:07.440 Phil Leonetti,

00:44:08.120 Ralph Natale,

00:44:08.860 Oscar Goodman,

00:44:09.460 a lot of these

00:44:10.000 different personalities.

00:44:11.680 Did you ever

00:44:12.360 have any dealings

00:44:13.080 yourself with

00:44:13.980 Gotti or

00:44:15.220 Sammy Gravano

00:44:16.340 yourself?

00:44:17.360 Sammy would

00:44:18.080 remember me.

00:44:18.940 We met

00:44:19.660 at a big,

00:44:21.380 big sit down

00:44:22.440 and it was

00:44:24.680 an Italian restaurant.

00:44:25.680 I think it was

00:44:25.940 called The Sicilian

00:44:26.800 on 2nd Avion 19th.

00:44:30.060 It was a funny place.

00:44:31.480 It was,

00:44:32.080 it was,

00:44:33.180 it was completely

00:44:34.340 closed off that day.

00:44:35.640 It was like a,

00:44:37.200 it took me four cars.

00:44:38.680 The drivers

00:44:39.460 changed cars.

00:44:42.360 So that by the time

00:44:43.840 we got to the place,

00:44:45.580 everybody in the place

00:44:47.180 was a gangster.

00:44:48.380 Right?

00:44:49.300 And Sammy the Bull

00:44:50.380 was the moderator

00:44:51.100 that day.

00:44:52.580 And I was brought there

00:44:54.860 because there was

00:44:55.500 going to be a major

00:44:56.440 combination of the

00:44:59.020 Genovese and the

00:44:59.920 Gambino family.

00:45:00.900 They're going to put

00:45:01.300 together a slot machine

00:45:02.580 operation,

00:45:03.260 2,000 machines.

00:45:05.280 And I was

00:45:08.020 asked the question

00:45:09.300 if I would

00:45:10.900 be able to

00:45:12.080 organize

00:45:13.940 and administrate it.

00:45:15.060 And I said

00:45:15.500 that the risk

00:45:16.140 of sounding

00:45:16.580 immodest,

00:45:17.220 I'm the only one

00:45:17.780 that can do

00:45:18.200 something like that.

00:45:19.240 Louis Red,

00:45:19.980 the buttons

00:45:20.420 are popping off

00:45:21.120 his shirt.

00:45:21.660 That's my man.

00:45:22.580 That's my man.

00:45:23.320 Jimmy Brown says,

00:45:24.660 I told you

00:45:25.320 that kid is good.

00:45:27.080 So Sammy the Bull,

00:45:28.060 I met him.

00:45:29.100 On all of your

00:45:30.000 interviews,

00:45:30.820 it's very impressive.

00:45:31.760 All that I've

00:45:34.740 watched,

00:45:35.600 these guys are

00:45:36.320 very candid.

00:45:37.660 They're very,

00:45:38.600 very honest about

00:45:39.760 their feelings,

00:45:40.620 sentiments,

00:45:41.140 and so forth,

00:45:41.760 and so forth.

00:45:42.740 It's very,

00:45:43.420 very good.

00:45:44.340 You're good.

00:45:45.260 You're good.

00:45:46.460 You bring out

00:45:47.160 the best of these

00:45:47.880 guys as far as

00:45:48.820 honesty is concerned.

00:45:49.780 I appreciate that.

00:45:50.700 What was the

00:45:51.140 biggest thing you

00:45:51.740 noticed from Sammy

00:45:52.640 when you said he

00:45:54.240 was a moderator?

00:45:55.240 Did he use humor?

00:45:57.460 Did he have

00:45:58.280 presence?

00:45:59.000 Was it intense?

00:45:59.840 Was it calm?

00:46:00.560 What was his

00:46:00.980 approach when you

00:46:01.580 saw him?

00:46:02.340 Low key.

00:46:03.160 Low key.

00:46:03.560 Low key.

00:46:04.220 Yeah,

00:46:04.480 low key.

00:46:04.960 There was nothing

00:46:05.480 ostentatious about

00:46:07.780 the man.

00:46:08.260 He just was

00:46:08.720 strictly business.

00:46:10.020 Gentlemen,

00:46:10.580 we're here.

00:46:10.940 What's this with

00:46:11.900 slot machines?

00:46:12.820 Who's this one

00:46:13.500 guy?

00:46:13.840 This issue of

00:46:15.220 garbage.

00:46:16.400 Issue over this.

00:46:17.740 Issue over that.

00:46:18.840 And so forth.

00:46:19.400 And so on.

00:46:19.940 So it was

00:46:20.460 basically,

00:46:21.120 again,

00:46:21.900 you were sitting

00:46:22.700 at your table,

00:46:23.980 your Genovese table,

00:46:25.180 and other guys

00:46:25.680 would be sitting

00:46:26.160 at Gambino table.

00:46:27.900 And whatever the

00:46:28.720 issue was,

00:46:29.660 ours was slot machines.

00:46:30.800 So you get called

00:46:31.460 to the table.

00:46:32.800 And Sammy was

00:46:33.440 strictly a moderator,

00:46:34.540 strictly.

00:46:34.960 Was he a feared

00:46:35.940 guy at that time?

00:46:36.800 Did people fear him?

00:46:38.060 I was told

00:46:39.060 by my driver,

00:46:41.320 by Louie Redd's

00:46:42.520 driver that took

00:46:43.160 me there.

00:46:44.400 He says,

00:46:45.120 this guy's dynamite.

00:46:47.060 That was the

00:46:47.840 expression he used.

00:46:49.020 He says,

00:46:49.440 this guy is dynamite.

00:46:51.860 Referring to Sammy.

00:46:53.140 Sammy's from Gambino.

00:46:55.140 He's not from Genovese.

00:46:56.180 My guy tells me

00:46:58.620 that guy is dynamite.

00:47:00.800 That's the only

00:47:03.000 experience I had

00:47:03.720 as far as he's concerned.

00:47:05.080 I knew all the,

00:47:07.920 you had,

00:47:08.780 Ralph and Natale,

00:47:11.640 you had Tommy Leonetti.

00:47:14.800 Phil Leonetti.

00:47:19.260 What's his first name?

00:47:20.680 Michael?

00:47:21.060 Michael.

00:47:21.680 Francis?

00:47:22.760 No, Leonetti.

00:47:24.400 Oh, Phil Leonetti.

00:47:25.300 Okay.

00:47:26.100 So,

00:47:26.900 the Philadelphia crowd,

00:47:28.640 there was a crew in Jersey,

00:47:30.320 in Newark.

00:47:31.420 It was downneck Newark,

00:47:33.420 and the guy that was in charge

00:47:35.080 was Tony Bananas.

00:47:36.380 Now,

00:47:36.580 they talked about him

00:47:37.740 killing Angelo Bruno.

00:47:40.500 So,

00:47:40.680 his name was

00:47:41.300 Tony Bananas Caponegro.

00:47:43.700 I knew everybody from Newark,

00:47:46.900 because I'm from Newark.

00:47:48.200 So,

00:47:48.440 I knew that whole crew.

00:47:51.100 I knew a zillion guys,

00:47:53.780 or vice versa.

00:47:56.160 They knew me,

00:47:56.820 because guys that heard

00:48:00.100 about the gambling machine business,

00:48:01.820 they jumped on it.

00:48:03.040 So,

00:48:03.300 we had everybody

00:48:05.120 from every crew,

00:48:06.640 from every street corner,

00:48:08.400 throughout the entire city

00:48:09.760 of New York,

00:48:10.620 suburbs,

00:48:11.040 and so forth,

00:48:11.760 and so forth.

00:48:12.280 It was a huge,

00:48:13.200 huge,

00:48:13.720 huge business

00:48:14.240 that I created.

00:48:17.320 And this is,

00:48:18.120 this is still in the 80s,

00:48:19.160 77 on.

00:48:20.160 It went from 77,

00:48:21.680 and then,

00:48:22.240 until,

00:48:22.920 I got locked up in 95.

00:48:25.840 I went to jail in 95.

00:48:28.240 95.

00:48:29.160 So,

00:48:29.800 that's about the,

00:48:31.140 I think,

00:48:31.480 Natali,

00:48:32.360 did you have any dealings

00:48:33.180 with Joe Merlino,

00:48:33.960 or no?

00:48:34.620 No.

00:48:35.360 No.

00:48:35.880 My connection was with Newark,

00:48:38.160 with the Philadelphia,

00:48:39.400 Angelo Bruno's outfit.

00:48:41.040 In Newark,

00:48:41.660 the guy that killed him

00:48:42.780 was Tony,

00:48:44.320 he was the Capo Regime.

00:48:45.720 He was the guy

00:48:46.380 that was in charge of Newark.

00:48:48.000 And never anything

00:48:48.640 with Scarfo?

00:48:49.880 I met him one time.

00:48:51.680 Just,

00:48:52.240 he was eating

00:48:53.420 in a restaurant,

00:48:54.420 and one of the kids

00:48:56.020 from Newark said,

00:48:56.760 you know,

00:48:57.200 I'd like you to meet

00:48:58.600 Nicky Scarfo.

00:49:00.440 Did you get the feeling

00:49:01.380 from,

00:49:01.640 like,

00:49:01.760 did you feel the spirit?

00:49:02.580 No,

00:49:02.640 I didn't have any.

00:49:03.140 Okay,

00:49:03.460 so you didn't have

00:49:03.860 any kind of opinion,

00:49:04.440 but okay.

00:49:04.760 The guys that,

00:49:05.900 that were extremely,

00:49:07.640 extremely close,

00:49:08.520 that I was close with,

00:49:09.440 was all the way upstairs,

00:49:10.880 on top.

00:49:12.180 Jerry Katina

00:49:12.960 from Newark

00:49:13.840 was my father's partner

00:49:15.440 in the jukebox

00:49:16.080 when they visit.

00:49:17.180 Doc Statcher,

00:49:17.920 Longies Wilman,

00:49:18.820 Meyer Lansky,

00:49:20.000 those people I knew.

00:49:21.220 Those were your,

00:49:21.820 okay,

00:49:22.100 so how was Meyer

00:49:22.800 when you met him?

00:49:23.320 What was Meyer like?

00:49:24.200 a gem,

00:49:26.320 a gentleman,

00:49:27.740 a gentleman,

00:49:28.320 a gentleman,

00:49:28.460 and so forth.

00:49:29.360 But that time,

00:49:30.500 he had run away

00:49:31.460 and met him in Israel.

00:49:33.960 My father's partner,

00:49:35.560 Doc Statcher,

00:49:36.900 What year was this

00:49:37.540 when you met him in Israel?

00:49:38.220 1970.

00:49:39.420 September 1970.

00:49:40.860 When he wanted

00:49:41.320 to get citizenship,

00:49:42.200 but they turned him down

00:49:42.960 and didn't give it to him?

00:49:43.960 Is that the time?

00:49:44.720 Yeah.

00:49:45.080 Okay.

00:49:45.300 He went,

00:49:47.100 he knew he was

00:49:48.620 going to be indicted.

00:49:49.880 He ran to Israel.

00:49:52.500 My father's partner,

00:49:53.760 original partner,

00:49:54.640 was Joseph Doc Statcher.

00:49:56.600 Doc Statcher was,

00:49:59.580 he was a genius.

00:50:01.220 Absolutely.

00:50:01.860 What a mind.

00:50:03.820 But Doc Statcher

00:50:04.720 accepted exile

00:50:06.420 from the United States

00:50:08.300 in a deal

00:50:09.380 that he worked out

00:50:10.280 with Edward Bennett Williams,

00:50:12.460 the great lawyer

00:50:13.220 from Washington,

00:50:13.980 and Robert Kennedy.

00:50:16.040 He actually made the deal

00:50:17.700 with Kennedy

00:50:18.140 to accept exile

00:50:19.740 from the United States.

00:50:20.780 He was in Israel.

00:50:22.180 He told me

00:50:23.080 on one Saturday afternoon,

00:50:24.760 it was Saturday morning,

00:50:25.620 you'll be here for lunch,

00:50:27.040 for Shabbat.

00:50:28.500 And he never told me why.

00:50:32.140 And all of a sudden,

00:50:33.460 Meyer Lansky walked in.

00:50:35.200 Meyer Lansky sat down

00:50:36.760 next to me.

00:50:38.380 I was a kid.

00:50:39.520 I was going to go to Africa

00:50:40.920 the next month

00:50:41.980 to run slot machines

00:50:43.300 for a backdoor ballet deal

00:50:45.880 in Lagos, Nigeria

00:50:47.260 with a couple of Arab gangsters

00:50:49.060 and they needed a manager.

00:50:51.500 So Meyer Lansky,

00:50:56.400 he was very polite,

00:50:58.160 very cordial,

00:50:59.200 and he tells me,

00:51:00.140 listen, son,

00:51:01.140 he says,

00:51:01.560 they made me bigger

00:51:02.440 than Al Capone.

00:51:04.180 That's why I'm here in Israel.

00:51:06.020 Because if I go to trial,

00:51:08.300 I'm going to do life.

00:51:11.440 And all it was,

00:51:12.500 was just a income tax case.

00:51:17.300 At the end of the meal,

00:51:19.800 by the way,

00:51:20.640 he says,

00:51:20.940 you know,

00:51:21.800 your father was my very,

00:51:23.740 very dear friend.

00:51:24.600 He was with us

00:51:25.280 in the Riviera Hotel

00:51:26.380 in Havana.

00:51:28.340 He reminded me of my father.

00:51:30.060 Same style,

00:51:31.120 low-key,

00:51:32.180 quiet gentleman.

00:51:34.160 They took me off

00:51:35.040 to the corner

00:51:35.580 and they were concerned

00:51:37.500 at that particular point

00:51:38.900 about Mr. Katina,

00:51:40.340 who was my father's partner

00:51:41.680 that bought out Doc Stature

00:51:43.500 after Doc went to,

00:51:44.840 went to L.A.

00:51:47.040 He opened up

00:51:47.600 the Moulin Rouge

00:51:48.300 and then he was

00:51:49.300 at the Hotel Flamingo

00:51:51.700 and Sands

00:51:52.660 and so forth

00:51:53.280 and so forth.

00:51:54.620 They were concerned

00:51:55.700 about Jerry Katina.

00:51:59.120 Years,

00:51:59.720 it took me years later

00:52:00.700 to figure out

00:52:01.660 all of the concerns.

00:52:03.740 It was all about

00:52:04.520 the rake-off.

00:52:06.160 Who's in charge

00:52:07.160 of the rake-off?

00:52:08.080 Because once

00:52:08.620 Meyer Lansky

00:52:09.440 left Florida

00:52:10.840 to go to Israel,

00:52:12.340 who was in charge

00:52:13.080 of the,

00:52:13.580 of the,

00:52:14.180 the money

00:52:17.580 coming into,

00:52:19.840 we used to go to Miami.

00:52:21.760 Meyer would have it

00:52:22.560 packaged up

00:52:23.300 and it would be

00:52:25.020 picked up

00:52:25.500 by a fellow

00:52:25.980 by the name of

00:52:26.440 Silvan Fetterman

00:52:27.480 from Geneva, Switzerland,

00:52:29.680 who was,

00:52:30.540 I think,

00:52:31.680 somehow or another

00:52:32.300 related to

00:52:33.200 Tibor Rosenbaum,

00:52:34.920 who was the owner

00:52:35.880 of a bank

00:52:36.720 called the

00:52:37.020 International Banque de Credit,

00:52:38.720 which was the bank

00:52:39.900 that banked

00:52:40.660 both the rake-off

00:52:41.640 for the mob

00:52:43.140 and was a Mossad bank.

00:52:46.440 It worked,

00:52:47.420 it worked both

00:52:48.280 for both,

00:52:49.140 for both organizations.

00:52:54.100 Interesting.

00:52:54.920 Now,

00:52:55.440 Lansky's strength,

00:52:57.000 when you hear

00:52:58.080 about Lansky's strength,

00:52:59.440 you hear a lot

00:52:59.820 of different things.

00:53:00.540 You know,

00:53:00.720 the whole scene

00:53:02.740 you see

00:53:03.660 in the movie

00:53:04.220 Mobsters

00:53:04.700 with Christian Slater

00:53:05.620 where,

00:53:06.100 you know,

00:53:06.720 Meyer wouldn't take,

00:53:07.700 you know,

00:53:07.920 he would always

00:53:08.800 fight back.

00:53:09.640 He didn't know

00:53:09.900 how to fight,

00:53:10.360 but he was feisty.

00:53:11.140 He was willing to fight.

00:53:11.900 He was not afraid of you.

00:53:13.140 And then,

00:53:13.740 he's portrayed

00:53:14.360 as a guy

00:53:14.920 that's very methodical,

00:53:16.180 very business,

00:53:17.040 very strong,

00:53:17.820 but,

00:53:18.420 you know,

00:53:18.780 low-key,

00:53:19.240 didn't need the attention.

00:53:20.240 It was a,

00:53:20.900 what else would you say

00:53:21.760 was some of his strengths?

00:53:22.640 I mean,

00:53:22.800 I'm sure your dad

00:53:23.400 told you stories

00:53:24.100 about Meyer

00:53:24.640 who he probably

00:53:25.600 had more dealings

00:53:26.280 with.

00:53:26.400 So Meyer Lansky

00:53:27.160 used to come

00:53:27.660 to Newark

00:53:28.200 all the time

00:53:28.880 and stayed

00:53:30.940 and stayed

00:53:30.960 and stayed

00:53:30.980 at the old

00:53:32.180 Riviera Hotel.

00:53:33.800 It was a Riviera Hotel

00:53:34.960 actually on Clinton Avenue

00:53:36.800 and he was,

00:53:39.140 he was just

00:53:39.840 a low-key guy,

00:53:42.780 all right,

00:53:43.440 dressed conservative,

00:53:45.820 thought conservative,

00:53:47.040 and he was

00:53:48.120 a patriotic American

00:53:49.740 and a patriotic Jew.

00:53:52.180 Very strong

00:53:53.260 on the question

00:53:53.980 of Jewish identity.

00:53:56.060 In terms of theology,

00:53:57.700 whether he believed

00:53:58.300 in God,

00:53:58.840 probably not.

00:53:59.980 He didn't,

00:54:01.100 he wasn't a practicing Jew.

00:54:03.140 He was a

00:54:04.160 nationalistic Jew.

00:54:07.120 All those guys

00:54:08.620 participated

00:54:09.840 in supply

00:54:10.660 of weapons

00:54:11.360 and arms

00:54:12.340 at a time

00:54:13.360 that the Neutrality Act

00:54:14.900 was invoked

00:54:15.880 by Truman

00:54:17.080 stating that

00:54:18.360 it was a criminal act

00:54:19.340 to supply weapons

00:54:20.320 and arms

00:54:21.060 to Palestine,

00:54:22.360 either to the Arabs

00:54:23.320 or to the Jews.

00:54:25.620 Our guys

00:54:26.700 played a significant role

00:54:29.040 in buying up

00:54:30.440 weapons

00:54:31.080 and arms,

00:54:32.540 surplus

00:54:35.240 weapons and arms

00:54:36.300 post-World War II

00:54:37.540 and we had

00:54:38.960 all the shipping

00:54:39.640 connections

00:54:40.240 at the port

00:54:41.180 of New York

00:54:42.040 through Frank Costello

00:54:43.940 and Albert Anastasia

00:54:45.400 so that the longshoremen

00:54:47.000 cooperated

00:54:47.640 with the Jews,

00:54:48.540 with the Zionists

00:54:49.320 to ship weapons

00:54:50.560 and arms.

00:54:51.660 Meyer Lansky

00:54:52.400 and Long East

00:54:53.080 Willman

00:54:53.520 played significant roles.

00:54:56.260 They went out

00:54:56.780 of their way

00:54:57.400 constantly.

00:54:59.780 So,

00:55:00.300 the value system

00:55:02.860 of these people,

00:55:04.820 Meyer Lansky

00:55:07.920 would not be

00:55:08.500 in a dirty business.

00:55:09.780 The dirty business

00:55:10.600 being prostitution

00:55:11.740 or drugs.

00:55:13.320 who was,

00:55:14.200 if he wasn't,

00:55:14.800 who was?

00:55:15.980 Just about everybody.

00:55:17.460 Really?

00:55:18.000 Yeah,

00:55:18.260 it was so,

00:55:19.580 it was so.

00:55:20.800 Even his colleagues,

00:55:21.780 even the different families.

00:55:24.100 Yeah,

00:55:24.800 yeah.

00:55:25.580 And

00:55:26.100 my guy

00:55:29.680 was

00:55:30.300 Louis Streaky

00:55:31.360 and he used

00:55:32.440 to say

00:55:32.920 every time,

00:55:33.840 every week,

00:55:34.560 we'd meet

00:55:35.080 at a delicatessen

00:55:36.380 called Carpens

00:55:37.220 in Passaic.

00:55:38.480 It'd be a round table

00:55:39.320 and everybody

00:55:39.780 was at the table

00:55:40.620 and his message

00:55:42.000 is gentlemen

00:55:42.560 were not

00:55:43.080 in that business.

00:55:44.840 All right?

00:55:45.360 Gentlemen

00:55:45.800 were not

00:55:46.360 in that business

00:55:46.940 and gentlemen

00:55:47.440 were not

00:55:47.880 in that business.

00:55:49.480 I think

00:55:50.120 everybody

00:55:50.460 at the table

00:55:51.040 was at that business

00:55:52.000 except myself.

00:55:53.040 in some form

00:55:56.900 or another.

00:56:00.140 Patrick

00:56:00.580 comes to me

00:56:01.260 and says to me,

00:56:02.080 I'm not saying

00:56:03.000 Patrick,

00:56:03.500 I'm saying

00:56:03.740 let's say

00:56:04.260 Mr.

00:56:07.380 Mr.

00:56:07.800 John Smith

00:56:10.220 comes to me

00:56:10.800 and says to me,

00:56:11.900 finance me,

00:56:12.840 give me $25,000.

00:56:14.320 All right?

00:56:14.700 Don't ask any questions.

00:56:16.580 You'll have back

00:56:17.840 50% on your money

00:56:19.780 in 30 days.

00:56:21.320 All right?

00:56:21.580 Please don't ask me

00:56:23.360 who,

00:56:23.880 what,

00:56:24.260 when,

00:56:24.540 where,

00:56:24.840 how.

00:56:25.860 So everybody

00:56:26.960 in some form

00:56:28.420 or another

00:56:28.840 was connected

00:56:29.680 to that business.

00:56:30.640 Who trusted who?

00:56:31.620 Like who,

00:56:32.260 how much of a role

00:56:33.440 did trust play

00:56:34.320 or how much of a role

00:56:35.400 did intuition play?

00:56:38.300 Like what,

00:56:38.980 you know,

00:56:39.360 the main gangsters

00:56:40.240 who are sitting there

00:56:41.040 sometimes saying,

00:56:42.120 I know this guy's full of shit,

00:56:43.060 he's lying to me

00:56:43.580 to my face,

00:56:44.640 but I still have to figure out

00:56:45.840 a way to do business

00:56:46.460 with him.

00:56:47.120 What mattered more?

00:56:48.060 Trust,

00:56:48.660 intuition,

00:56:49.320 street smart?

00:56:50.380 How would you put it?

00:56:51.180 Combination of all factors.

00:56:52.460 Okay.

00:56:52.960 A combination of all factors.

00:56:58.960 All your interviews,

00:57:00.940 your guys tell you,

00:57:01.940 trust nobody.

00:57:03.360 That was a common thread

00:57:05.540 through all your interviews

00:57:06.640 with the fellas

00:57:07.420 that we mentioned before.

00:57:09.180 It's very difficult

00:57:10.360 to trust in that world.

00:57:12.960 Somebody says,

00:57:14.320 what is the definition

00:57:15.280 of the word friend?

00:57:16.480 Friend is a sacred word.

00:57:20.520 We've got two guys.

00:57:21.340 I'm going to take

00:57:21.700 this bottle of water

00:57:22.500 and I'm going to take

00:57:22.880 this bottle of water.

00:57:24.260 I'm one guy

00:57:25.560 and my best friend

00:57:26.920 is this guy.

00:57:28.240 All right?

00:57:28.940 We get nailed.

00:57:30.440 We get brought down

00:57:31.560 to police headquarters.

00:57:32.860 All right?

00:57:33.760 They put me in one room

00:57:35.060 and they put my best friend

00:57:37.160 in another room.

00:57:37.960 And then they say to me,

00:57:41.680 Sugarman,

00:57:42.980 that guy over there,

00:57:45.020 Moesha,

00:57:45.900 Moesha's your best friend.

00:57:47.140 I say,

00:57:47.440 he's a great guy.

00:57:49.140 Well,

00:57:49.420 that great guy

00:57:50.460 is talking.

00:57:52.020 He's got diarrhea

00:57:52.860 of the mouth.

00:57:53.620 He's burying you.

00:57:55.120 So,

00:57:55.540 you know what?

00:57:56.320 You better be a smart guy.

00:57:58.020 You better bury him

00:57:59.080 before he buries you.

00:58:01.000 And if I'm smart,

00:58:02.520 I'll say to him,

00:58:03.740 gentlemen,

00:58:05.300 kish mir ntuchus,

00:58:07.060 which in translated Yiddish

00:58:08.600 means kiss my ass.

00:58:10.780 And if my friend Moesha

00:58:12.220 is really my friend,

00:58:13.860 he says,

00:58:15.040 kish mir ntuchus.

00:58:16.140 All right?

00:58:18.660 That's the definition

00:58:19.900 of friendship.

00:58:21.640 All the rest

00:58:22.320 is all bullshit.

00:58:24.140 Guys hug,

00:58:25.620 kiss,

00:58:26.420 embrace.

00:58:27.360 Going to have

00:58:27.800 espresso coffee.

00:58:28.860 We're going to have

00:58:29.220 a drink together

00:58:29.920 and so forth

00:58:30.560 and so forth.

00:58:31.640 And then what happens

00:58:32.680 when your best friend

00:58:35.320 says to you,

00:58:36.480 come on,

00:58:36.820 we're going to take

00:58:37.180 a ride tonight.

00:58:37.820 We're going to see somebody.

00:58:39.360 And he's walking

00:58:40.700 you right into your death.

00:58:43.720 Michael Francis,

00:58:44.600 he tells that story.

00:58:46.200 How scared he was

00:58:47.320 to go anywhere

00:58:48.240 and so forth.

00:58:49.280 He knows.

00:58:50.660 Very smart guy.

00:58:51.720 Very, very,

00:58:52.420 very talented.

00:58:53.440 Very interesting.

00:58:54.640 Very, very interesting.

00:58:56.560 And he tells exactly

00:58:57.640 the way it is.

00:58:59.220 So,

00:59:00.180 the other factor

00:59:01.940 that you didn't mention,

00:59:03.140 you mentioned intuition,

00:59:04.260 you mentioned smarts

00:59:05.680 and trust

00:59:06.460 and all that.

00:59:08.200 Providence.

00:59:10.420 Elaborate.

00:59:11.260 Providence.

00:59:11.960 God.

00:59:12.920 Sometimes in life,

00:59:14.480 we don't know

00:59:15.420 where it's coming from.

00:59:16.680 All right?

00:59:16.920 It's saved

00:59:19.700 because

00:59:20.300 I had a,

00:59:21.700 an attempt

00:59:22.820 on my life

00:59:23.560 one time,

00:59:24.640 two times.

00:59:25.780 The first,

00:59:26.260 second time

00:59:27.120 was by Providence.

00:59:30.120 My,

00:59:30.720 my guy that

00:59:31.800 I was supposed

00:59:32.600 to meet in the morning

00:59:33.540 who never was on time.

00:59:35.540 That particular morning

00:59:37.000 was on time

00:59:37.920 and he spotted

00:59:39.160 two guys

00:59:39.940 that were dressed

00:59:41.040 in uniform,

00:59:42.700 long coats,

00:59:43.580 caps.

00:59:44.660 And sure enough,

00:59:45.240 the guy shot up the stairs

00:59:46.600 and

00:59:47.300 the truth of the matter

00:59:51.300 was,

00:59:52.080 why was he there

00:59:53.120 that particular morning,

00:59:54.920 364 days a year,

00:59:56.920 never on time.

00:59:57.840 This particular day,

00:59:59.300 he was there on time

01:00:00.620 and was

01:00:01.320 experienced enough

01:00:03.740 to say,

01:00:04.380 those two guys,

01:00:05.780 they're here to,

01:00:06.980 they're here to do you

01:00:08.080 more than just harm.

01:00:12.040 Providence.

01:00:13.360 So trust,

01:00:14.780 intuition,

01:00:16.600 um,

01:00:17.680 streets,

01:00:18.500 and on top of that,

01:00:20.180 Providence.

01:00:21.180 Um,

01:00:21.660 you know,

01:00:22.380 in the,

01:00:23.580 in the,

01:00:24.220 in the mob world,

01:00:25.020 when you think about

01:00:25.760 the Jewish mob,

01:00:26.520 you think about,

01:00:27.900 you know,

01:00:28.400 the Italian mob,

01:00:29.300 what good did the mob do

01:00:31.240 and what bad did the mob do?

01:00:32.480 Obviously,

01:00:32.740 when you think about the bad,

01:00:33.880 we know a lot of the bad.

01:00:34.920 We read a lot about the bad.

01:00:36.440 But,

01:00:36.840 you know,

01:00:37.380 there,

01:00:37.640 there's those that also will say

01:00:39.080 it did some good.

01:00:40.020 What would you say the good it did

01:00:41.240 to the,

01:00:41.580 uh,

01:00:41.860 to,

01:00:42.160 to the community?

01:00:43.760 Um,

01:00:44.720 well,

01:00:45.180 on the,

01:00:45.540 on the,

01:00:45.960 the local level,

01:00:47.860 uh,

01:00:48.140 if you,

01:00:49.620 look at,

01:00:51.240 uh,

01:00:52.440 somebody tried to rape my sister.

01:01:00.060 As an example,

01:01:01.700 thank God,

01:01:02.140 it didn't happen.

01:01:03.260 But let's say,

01:01:04.200 for example,

01:01:04.740 my,

01:01:05.000 my,

01:01:05.260 my father,

01:01:05.900 I can't even get to tell you

01:01:06.860 how many times

01:01:07.660 Shuggy was called

01:01:08.980 in the middle of the night.

01:01:09.780 Shuggy,

01:01:10.060 can I come see?

01:01:10.800 I got a problem.

01:01:12.160 Uh,

01:01:13.220 such and such,

01:01:14.040 the union,

01:01:14.640 this,

01:01:14.820 that,

01:01:15.080 and so forth.

01:01:15.620 And so,

01:01:15.920 so my father was with Jerry Kadena.

01:01:18.660 So next day,

01:01:19.620 ah,

01:01:20.260 my aunt,

01:01:21.000 here's a good story.

01:01:22.480 My aunt Shirley,

01:01:23.400 my mother's sister,

01:01:24.800 she becomes a widow

01:01:25.800 and she's got a,

01:01:26.660 uh,

01:01:26.920 supermarket

01:01:27.440 up in Bownbrook,

01:01:28.560 New Jersey.

01:01:29.620 A couple of tough guys

01:01:31.240 come in,

01:01:31.700 bully her,

01:01:32.420 and Mrs. Goldberg,

01:01:33.700 ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba,

01:01:34.540 you're going to do this,

01:01:35.320 that.

01:01:35.480 And she got scared.

01:01:36.240 She called my mother.

01:01:37.420 Mother calls me.

01:01:38.320 My father was already

01:01:39.220 passed away

01:01:40.440 and she says,

01:01:40.920 take care of that.

01:01:42.160 All right.

01:01:42.740 So I go to see

01:01:43.600 Abe Green.

01:01:46.900 Abe sat there.

01:01:47.960 He said,

01:01:48.760 tell her,

01:01:49.340 tell her,

01:01:49.780 tell her,

01:01:49.800 she'll let her come.

01:01:50.600 Comes to the office.

01:01:51.980 And she tells him

01:01:53.140 the problem,

01:01:54.140 that he got bullied,

01:01:55.200 this,

01:01:55.380 that,

01:01:55.660 and the union.

01:01:56.320 Abe says,

01:01:58.120 what?

01:01:59.440 Nice seeing you,

01:02:00.180 Shirley.

01:02:00.500 Take care of yourself,

01:02:01.400 sweetheart.

01:02:02.600 And Shirley says to me,

01:02:04.740 no,

01:02:05.720 what is,

01:02:06.260 what's going on here?

01:02:07.580 And he says,

01:02:08.500 go home.

01:02:10.060 Maybe go home.

01:02:10.760 I came here

01:02:11.220 to get the thing.

01:02:12.600 And Shirley,

01:02:13.640 go home.

01:02:15.640 Sure enough,

01:02:16.200 the next morning,

01:02:17.300 she couldn't walk

01:02:18.360 into her supermarket.

01:02:19.740 It looked like

01:02:20.380 a flower shop.

01:02:21.980 There were bouquets

01:02:22.800 and all of a sudden,

01:02:24.820 you know,

01:02:25.400 baskets of fruit

01:02:26.500 and this,

01:02:26.920 that,

01:02:27.160 and so forth.

01:02:27.740 And two guys show up

01:02:29.280 with the hats.

01:02:30.280 Mrs. Goldberg,

01:02:31.800 we never knew

01:02:33.520 who you were.

01:02:34.840 We apologize.

01:02:36.260 And if you ever

01:02:37.100 need anything,

01:02:37.840 you come to see us

01:02:39.020 and so forth

01:02:39.640 and so forth.

01:02:40.340 That's a million times

01:02:41.400 that story

01:02:42.700 of you went

01:02:44.200 to the powers

01:02:45.280 to be

01:02:45.840 because if you

01:02:46.820 went through

01:02:47.380 the system,

01:02:48.420 the system

01:02:48.960 did shit for you.

01:02:50.040 Somebody tried

01:02:50.760 to rape

01:02:51.180 the guy's sister.

01:02:52.740 All right?

01:02:53.540 He goes to the bosses.

01:02:55.040 Bosses say,

01:02:55.620 oh,

01:02:55.680 he'll take care of that.

01:02:56.560 And sure enough,

01:02:57.480 you know,

01:02:57.780 in the old days,

01:02:59.180 that guy

01:02:59.780 that was an attempted

01:03:00.820 rapist,

01:03:02.060 he,

01:03:02.340 never see him again.

01:03:05.000 All right?

01:03:06.740 It was taken care of.

01:03:08.420 Now,

01:03:08.640 if you went through

01:03:09.200 the system

01:03:09.820 and the prosecution,

01:03:11.380 the lawyers,

01:03:11.980 and this,

01:03:12.300 and so,

01:03:12.720 it's an expediency.

01:03:14.280 You get justice,

01:03:15.320 instant justice,

01:03:16.840 providing,

01:03:17.500 of course,

01:03:17.960 and they bring

01:03:18.740 that out

01:03:19.140 in the movie

01:03:19.560 The Godfather,

01:03:20.420 which was very accurate

01:03:22.040 to show that

01:03:23.220 you get expediency

01:03:24.460 as far as

01:03:25.540 the justice

01:03:26.800 is concerned,

01:03:27.540 whereas if you go

01:03:28.320 civil cases,

01:03:30.420 you want to sue a guy,

01:03:31.720 all right?

01:03:32.380 Guy screwed you

01:03:33.120 for money,

01:03:33.580 you're going to go sue him.

01:03:35.160 How many years

01:03:35.720 is it going to take

01:03:36.320 before you lose

01:03:37.680 the case?

01:03:38.200 Two to four years.

01:03:39.700 With luck,

01:03:40.460 you get two to four years.

01:03:41.440 Yeah.

01:03:41.800 All right?

01:03:42.620 You're unlucky,

01:03:43.340 you might be

01:03:43.880 10 years waiting

01:03:44.900 for a resolution

01:03:46.380 because it's going

01:03:47.160 through the system.

01:03:48.820 So this,

01:03:50.020 so you asked

01:03:50.920 an excellent question.

01:03:52.680 The benefit

01:03:53.440 of the mob

01:03:54.720 is that it cuts

01:03:55.780 through all the bullshit

01:03:56.580 gets right down

01:03:57.380 to the basics.

01:03:58.160 What's the ugly?

01:03:59.340 What's the ugly?

01:03:59.980 I mean,

01:04:00.140 I've read,

01:04:00.660 I've seen,

01:04:01.160 I've interviewed,

01:04:01.900 I've done a lot

01:04:03.520 of research on that.

01:04:04.480 What was the ugliest part?

01:04:06.020 Can I tell you

01:04:06.820 who the biggest

01:04:07.600 organized crime is

01:04:08.720 in the entire world?

01:04:09.720 Who?

01:04:10.020 The government.

01:04:11.720 Every government

01:04:12.360 is the worst

01:04:13.260 organized criminal

01:04:14.860 enterprise

01:04:15.800 on the face.

01:04:16.700 These guys here,

01:04:18.080 they're midgets

01:04:18.560 compared to the government.

01:04:20.120 Except that the government,

01:04:21.700 look it,

01:04:22.520 the government made me,

01:04:23.980 oh,

01:04:24.260 he's the boss

01:04:24.960 of the slot machine business.

01:04:26.640 All right?

01:04:27.520 Sugarman,

01:04:28.080 he's the boss

01:04:28.620 of the slot machine business.

01:04:30.280 Terrible thing.

01:04:31.200 Go to my God,

01:04:31.980 he's organized crime.

01:04:33.420 He play his slot machines.

01:04:35.020 You're funding,

01:04:36.240 you're funding

01:04:36.920 organized crime.

01:04:38.200 Okay,

01:04:38.440 good.

01:04:38.680 Turn on your television set

01:04:42.500 and you watch

01:04:44.000 on television,

01:04:45.040 all right?

01:04:46.160 Guys playing

01:04:47.040 in their living room

01:04:48.080 on a computer

01:04:49.160 the same slot machines

01:04:51.360 that Myron Sugarman

01:04:52.940 operated in bodegas

01:04:54.420 20 years ago.

01:04:56.500 All right?

01:04:57.220 But now you can sit

01:04:58.220 in your living room

01:04:58.840 and you can go broke

01:04:59.880 playing the same slot machines

01:05:01.920 that Myron Sugarman

01:05:02.440 but this is good

01:05:03.640 because there's this government

01:05:04.660 and then we're going

01:05:05.200 to have taxes

01:05:05.880 and the tax is going

01:05:06.660 to be good.

01:05:07.440 It's going to help people

01:05:08.360 and so forth

01:05:08.940 and so forth.

01:05:09.560 Atlantic City

01:05:10.340 is still a shithouse

01:05:11.680 after all those years

01:05:13.700 from 1978

01:05:14.960 that all that money

01:05:16.420 that's going to be used

01:05:17.540 for the benefit

01:05:18.280 of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,

01:05:19.500 it's all bullshit.

01:05:21.320 Government is your biggest

01:05:22.800 criminal organization

01:05:24.120 on the face of the earth

01:05:25.220 but

01:05:25.860 it's a necessary evil.

01:05:29.660 All right?

01:05:31.480 Many years ago,

01:05:32.760 my father's partner

01:05:33.660 and I explained to you

01:05:34.860 that brought out

01:05:35.600 Doc Stature

01:05:36.140 become the acting boss

01:05:37.260 of the Genovese crime.

01:05:38.360 family,

01:05:39.100 Jerry Katina.

01:05:41.340 Underrated,

01:05:42.060 understated,

01:05:43.140 the most brilliant man,

01:05:45.700 one of the most brilliant men

01:05:46.960 I ever met in my life.

01:05:49.020 And at a desk like this,

01:05:50.400 he would be sitting

01:05:51.060 reading the Manchester Guardian,

01:05:52.620 the Christian Science Monitor,

01:05:54.020 the Wall Street Journal,

01:05:55.160 and New York Times.

01:05:56.460 Self-educated man.

01:05:57.700 my father used to say,

01:06:01.080 Mr. Katina,

01:06:04.360 he could run the Pentagon

01:06:05.600 or General Electric.

01:06:08.000 And with the passing of years,

01:06:09.900 I come to the conclusion

01:06:11.240 that man could have been

01:06:12.600 the President of the United States

01:06:14.200 of America.

01:06:15.080 He had such a skill

01:06:16.760 in administrating of people,

01:06:18.840 talent,

01:06:19.440 and intuition,

01:06:20.340 and instinct,

01:06:21.200 the genius about himself.

01:06:22.820 All right.

01:06:24.480 At the party in 1991,

01:06:27.680 September 13th, 1991,

01:06:29.620 I'm at Al Minyachi's home

01:06:32.040 in Fort Lauderdale,

01:06:33.720 Florida,

01:06:35.720 for his wife's 70th birthday.

01:06:37.880 Very dear friend

01:06:38.680 of my father's and mother's.

01:06:40.840 And he tells me,

01:06:42.400 the old man wants you

01:06:43.560 to be at the party tonight.

01:06:45.880 And I'm honored.

01:06:46.900 And of course,

01:06:47.480 and Mr. Katina walks in,

01:06:48.700 everybody goes,

01:06:49.660 oh, Jerry, how are you?

01:06:50.860 Good to see you.

01:06:52.400 He says to me,

01:06:53.180 get over here.

01:06:54.180 Sit down.

01:06:56.080 And then he,

01:06:57.040 of course,

01:06:58.000 he's super comfortable with me

01:06:59.380 because he can talk to me

01:07:00.760 like he can talk to nobody else.

01:07:02.760 And then he says to me,

01:07:06.060 I was just another

01:07:08.200 chief operating officer.

01:07:10.880 of just another corporation.

01:07:16.020 And I never forgot those words.

01:07:18.680 All right.

01:07:19.360 I was just another

01:07:21.000 chief operating officer.

01:07:22.900 Makes sense.

01:07:23.540 Of course it makes sense.

01:07:25.420 All right.

01:07:25.940 Kept peace,

01:07:27.380 resolved problems,

01:07:28.740 labor, unions,

01:07:30.000 made everything work,

01:07:32.000 made it all work.

01:07:32.880 So it's so interesting

01:07:34.100 when you,

01:07:34.900 although which one

01:07:35.740 of the five families

01:07:36.820 was the best ran,

01:07:38.900 tightly ran,

01:07:40.600 money-making,

01:07:41.860 feared,

01:07:42.460 what should you define

01:07:43.100 was that?

01:07:44.320 Well,

01:07:44.460 at different intervals,

01:07:45.620 it depended upon the leadership.

01:07:47.500 For example,

01:07:48.580 Mr. Katina,

01:07:50.320 my goodness gracious,

01:07:51.840 that man,

01:07:52.600 he could have easily

01:07:53.800 been the president

01:07:54.540 of the United States

01:07:55.360 of America.

01:07:56.980 The ballet deal.

01:07:58.840 Okay.

01:07:59.400 Ballet manufacturing,

01:08:00.540 ballet slot machine,

01:08:01.500 ballet hotels,

01:08:03.260 and so forth.

01:08:03.960 Okay.

01:08:04.460 Okay.

01:08:05.360 My father's company,

01:08:07.840 Runyon Sales Company,

01:08:09.360 was the official distributor

01:08:11.420 for ballet manufacturing company

01:08:13.140 before the slot machine business.

01:08:15.980 They made slots before the war,

01:08:19.460 but my father's company

01:08:20.920 becomes the distributors

01:08:22.040 for ballet in 1946.

01:08:25.820 And they made a machine

01:08:27.340 called the ballet bingo.

01:08:28.640 It was a subterfuge gambling device,

01:08:30.740 looked like a pinball machine.

01:08:32.400 It was a phenomenal machine.

01:08:34.080 Ballet bingo.

01:08:34.820 Bingo.

01:08:35.180 Ballet bingo.

01:08:36.060 Ballet bingo pinball.

01:08:37.760 That machine looked like

01:08:38.980 it had a hand

01:08:39.700 that came out of the machine

01:08:40.860 and grabbed the money

01:08:42.020 out of your pocket.

01:08:42.680 It was the most seductive

01:08:45.840 piece of equipment

01:08:47.420 on the face of the earth.

01:08:48.860 All right.

01:08:50.300 Robert Kennedy

01:08:51.220 knocks it out in 1992.

01:08:53.740 All right.

01:08:54.580 He says that machine

01:08:55.920 is the same thing

01:08:56.720 as a slot machine.

01:08:58.320 And he makes it,

01:09:00.000 amends what was known

01:09:01.320 as the Johnson Act,

01:09:02.820 passes a law called

01:09:03.760 the Eastland Act,

01:09:04.620 1963,

01:09:09.080 stating that

01:09:09.840 a ballet bingo machine,

01:09:11.100 multiple coin slot,

01:09:12.260 a pinball machine

01:09:13.080 as a gambling device

01:09:14.620 and cannot be shipped

01:09:15.760 into state.

01:09:17.100 All right.

01:09:18.320 And knocks Ballet

01:09:19.380 out of the box.

01:09:20.680 Ballet goes into foreclosure.

01:09:22.880 The manager of that company

01:09:24.520 was Bill O'Donnell.

01:09:26.220 The original owner

01:09:27.380 was Ray Maloney.

01:09:29.260 Brilliant man.

01:09:30.920 And the new manager

01:09:32.520 or the manager

01:09:33.280 that ran the company

01:09:34.760 was Bill O'Donnell.

01:09:36.340 The Maloney family

01:09:37.220 was no longer involved

01:09:39.360 with the business.

01:09:40.000 They come up

01:09:41.740 with a hopper.

01:09:42.520 Somebody invents

01:09:43.680 a hopper system

01:09:45.180 that takes a slot machine

01:09:46.900 from a mechanical device

01:09:48.280 that only pays out

01:09:49.600 20 coins

01:09:50.420 and it's going to put

01:09:51.480 in a hopper system

01:09:52.580 that's going to spit out

01:09:53.940 hundreds of coins,

01:09:55.400 thousands of coins.

01:09:57.100 In fact,

01:09:57.920 it's going to spit out

01:09:58.780 eventually dollars

01:09:59.900 and something.

01:10:00.740 Okay.

01:10:02.940 Bill O'Donnell

01:10:03.660 calls my father.

01:10:04.660 He says,

01:10:04.820 Shuggy,

01:10:05.220 could you introduce me

01:10:06.140 to Bill O'Donnell?

01:10:07.380 He says,

01:10:07.680 sure.

01:10:10.300 Could you introduce,

01:10:11.400 I'm sorry,

01:10:11.900 could you introduce me

01:10:12.840 to Jerry Katina?

01:10:14.600 My father says,

01:10:15.540 to Jerry Katina,

01:10:16.340 Bill O'Donnell from Ballet.

01:10:17.560 You never met him.

01:10:18.300 He wants to talk.

01:10:19.120 He's got a proposition.

01:10:20.640 He says,

01:10:20.860 tell him to come out.

01:10:22.000 Comes and he sits

01:10:23.260 in the office

01:10:23.880 in Springfield,

01:10:24.720 New Jersey

01:10:25.200 in a matter of

01:10:26.160 two and a half,

01:10:26.720 three hours.

01:10:27.940 Jerry Katina

01:10:28.640 hammers a deal

01:10:30.280 where they take

01:10:31.320 the company

01:10:31.840 out of foreclosure,

01:10:33.300 all right,

01:10:33.820 and goes on to be

01:10:35.000 Ballet Manufacturing Company.

01:10:37.040 Jerry Katina,

01:10:37.540 the machine was so great,

01:10:39.640 all right,

01:10:40.900 Jerry Katina understood

01:10:42.600 in a matter of seconds

01:10:43.840 that this was going

01:10:46.160 to revolutionize

01:10:47.140 the slot machine business.

01:10:48.720 He calls the people

01:10:49.860 from M Prize in Buffalo,

01:10:51.560 which was a Jewish family

01:10:54.000 that owned

01:10:54.660 all the baseball

01:10:55.600 concessions and so forth.

01:10:58.140 He gets money from them.

01:10:59.440 He calls Sam Klein

01:11:00.380 in Cleveland, Ohio,

01:11:01.480 big cigarette machine operator.

01:11:02.900 He's a smart businessman.

01:11:04.560 He had that kind of connection

01:11:05.860 that he could call people

01:11:06.960 around the country

01:11:07.860 and hammer a deal together.

01:11:09.740 It took two hours

01:11:10.480 to hammer the deal,

01:11:11.360 get the money up,

01:11:12.540 take the factory

01:11:14.340 out of foreclosure

01:11:15.280 and become

01:11:16.120 Ballet Manufacturing Company.

01:11:17.600 Then he calls up

01:11:19.260 his friend,

01:11:19.920 Dean Martin in Vegas,

01:11:22.480 and he says,

01:11:23.160 I'm sending you

01:11:24.700 Abe Green.

01:11:25.600 Introduce him

01:11:28.040 to all the hotel owners.

01:11:30.340 And that's how

01:11:31.180 Ballet Machines

01:11:31.920 get desolate.

01:11:33.220 And in a matter of,

01:11:33.940 they own 95%

01:11:35.660 of the slot machine business

01:11:37.460 in Las Vegas, Nevada

01:11:38.900 for years and years

01:11:40.380 and years and years.

01:11:41.940 Man.

01:11:42.900 So when you talk to me

01:11:44.140 about who was,

01:11:45.320 who was,

01:11:46.080 which crew,

01:11:47.880 Jerry Katina

01:11:49.140 was,

01:11:50.320 was,

01:11:50.900 was a phenomenal,

01:11:51.800 now you had some guys

01:11:53.340 that were just,

01:11:54.660 Paul Castellano,

01:11:56.600 really,

01:11:57.620 well,

01:11:59.120 Sammy the Bull

01:11:59.680 told you,

01:12:00.620 the man should not

01:12:01.520 have been a mob boss.

01:12:03.400 He distanced himself.

01:12:05.660 He was too legitimate.

01:12:06.800 He was making money

01:12:07.560 too legitimately.

01:12:08.360 And he didn't have

01:12:09.860 that human touch.

01:12:11.520 The guy that should

01:12:12.220 have been

01:12:12.560 was O'Neill.

01:12:14.480 It should have been,

01:12:15.220 according to Sammy the Bull

01:12:16.380 and John Gotti,

01:12:17.660 was the guy

01:12:18.440 that really

01:12:19.080 should have been.

01:12:21.520 But again,

01:12:22.740 Carlo Gambino

01:12:26.860 was genius

01:12:27.640 from what I,

01:12:29.800 what I was told

01:12:30.500 as far as

01:12:31.040 the streets are concerned.

01:12:33.000 You have to have

01:12:33.820 leadership quality

01:12:34.840 to be a boss,

01:12:35.860 to be a mob boss.

01:12:36.620 Did you ever do anything

01:12:37.360 with Sonny Francis

01:12:38.100 or no?

01:12:38.720 No.

01:12:39.140 Nothing with Sonny?

01:12:39.880 No.

01:12:40.340 And,

01:12:40.500 and,

01:12:40.900 did you ever think

01:12:42.620 that Sammy

01:12:44.460 could have one day

01:12:46.760 been a boss

01:12:47.340 or no?

01:12:47.900 You saw Sammy

01:12:48.640 as an underboss

01:12:49.520 to Gotti

01:12:50.060 and that was

01:12:50.460 the relationship

01:12:51.020 they had.

01:12:51.620 I don't think

01:12:52.120 I had enough

01:12:52.740 experience with him

01:12:53.760 in order to make

01:12:54.380 that judgment.

01:12:54.800 Okay, fair enough.

01:12:55.500 If I trudged

01:12:56.500 everybody against

01:12:57.660 Jerry Katina,

01:12:58.640 nobody was qualified.

01:13:00.320 Jerry Katina,

01:13:01.080 you put him at the top.

01:13:02.380 So Jerry's your GOAT.

01:13:03.600 Jerry's the greatest

01:13:04.260 boss you've ever seen.

01:13:05.680 He was,

01:13:06.100 he was superb.

01:13:07.560 Okay.

01:13:07.940 Superb.

01:13:08.640 Disciplined.

01:13:09.440 We called him

01:13:10.120 an iron fist

01:13:11.560 and a silk glove.

01:13:12.420 Was he more

01:13:12.860 a mobster,

01:13:13.620 an earner,

01:13:14.300 a leader?

01:13:14.880 What was he?

01:13:15.500 Everything.

01:13:16.680 No, he was no mobster.

01:13:18.120 So he wasn't the one

01:13:18.900 that was going out

01:13:19.500 taking people out.

01:13:20.360 But maybe in his youth

01:13:22.160 for sure.

01:13:22.740 Okay.

01:13:23.140 Nobody fooled him.

01:13:24.740 But I used to see

01:13:25.560 Manchester Guardian,

01:13:26.760 Christian Science Monitor

01:13:27.840 and so forth.

01:13:28.680 Yeah.

01:13:28.880 Self-educated man,

01:13:30.500 tremendous contacts

01:13:31.520 throughout the entire

01:13:32.360 United States.

01:13:33.480 He rose up the ladder

01:13:34.720 as far as success

01:13:35.680 is concerned.

01:13:36.740 Suit, tie,

01:13:37.480 and acted accordingly.

01:13:39.760 All right?

01:13:40.040 A gentleman.

01:13:43.400 There was no such thing

01:13:44.760 as you couldn't,

01:13:47.260 a legitimate,

01:13:48.080 if you had a legitimate need,

01:13:50.000 you were a good guy,

01:13:51.240 you went to him

01:13:52.060 for a favor.

01:13:53.020 All right?

01:13:53.240 Through,

01:13:53.640 through the ranks,

01:13:54.600 you got the favor done.

01:13:56.900 Again,

01:13:57.380 I'm going to ask you

01:13:57.880 one question.

01:13:58.320 I'm curious if you have

01:13:58.920 any other kind of version

01:13:59.720 of story to this.

01:14:00.720 John F. Kennedy

01:14:01.260 assassination.

01:14:02.320 I've heard a,

01:14:03.880 I've interviewed 20 people

01:14:05.400 on the topic of

01:14:06.080 JFK assassination.

01:14:08.700 What do you know

01:14:09.420 the involvement of

01:14:10.340 Ruby,

01:14:10.940 the mob,

01:14:11.820 the CIA,

01:14:13.000 LBJ?

01:14:13.800 What do you know?

01:14:14.600 So,

01:14:14.780 so Jimmy Blue Eyes

01:14:15.760 tells me this story.

01:14:16.780 Okay.

01:14:17.060 I used to meet with him

01:14:18.020 once a month

01:14:19.000 downstairs in the Hilton Hotel.

01:14:22.560 So I said to him one time,

01:14:24.180 I said,

01:14:24.440 Jimmy,

01:14:25.780 this kid,

01:14:27.060 Harvey Oswald,

01:14:29.760 he says,

01:14:30.300 we have better

01:14:31.380 fucking shooters

01:14:32.440 than Lee Harvey Oswald.

01:14:34.640 It's all bullshit.

01:14:35.620 We had nothing

01:14:36.020 to do with him.

01:14:37.840 I says,

01:14:38.460 but tell me the story.

01:14:41.100 He says,

01:14:41.640 okay.

01:14:42.960 Joe Kennedy,

01:14:44.480 all right?

01:14:45.360 Joe Kennedy,

01:14:45.740 the nicest thing

01:14:46.400 you could have said

01:14:46.920 about Joe Kennedy

01:14:47.800 is that he hated Italians

01:14:49.600 more than he hated Jews.

01:14:51.320 Couldn't stand Italians.

01:14:53.540 Couldn't,

01:14:54.140 he couldn't stand Jews.

01:14:56.300 So,

01:14:56.920 he wanted Jack Kennedy

01:14:59.700 to become president.

01:15:01.160 All right?

01:15:01.680 He reaches out

01:15:02.740 to Peter Lawford,

01:15:04.480 his son-in-law.

01:15:06.880 You were friendly

01:15:07.700 with that little skinny guinea,

01:15:10.160 Frank Sinatra.

01:15:12.960 We need a favor.

01:15:14.420 What's the favor?

01:15:15.900 You go to him.

01:15:17.200 You're part of the Rat Pack.

01:15:19.040 Tell him we need

01:15:20.260 Cook County,

01:15:21.580 Chicago.

01:15:22.360 We need West Virginia,

01:15:23.500 the unions

01:15:24.160 in order to get

01:15:25.560 Kennedy elected.

01:15:28.040 Chicago.

01:15:35.500 Dewey?

01:15:36.500 No,

01:15:36.700 no,

01:15:36.880 no.

01:15:37.080 Dewey was New York,

01:15:38.160 Nebraska.

01:15:38.800 No.

01:15:39.500 The Irish,

01:15:40.440 Daley.

01:15:41.480 Daley.

01:15:42.120 Richard Daley.

01:15:43.760 Irish Catholic,

01:15:45.700 Democrat,

01:15:47.500 Sam Mooney.

01:15:49.220 All right?

01:15:50.180 They get together.

01:15:51.520 We're going to get

01:15:52.160 this guy elected.

01:15:53.300 All right?

01:15:53.700 Now,

01:15:54.940 he gets elected.

01:15:57.920 All right?

01:15:59.140 Here's the mentality.

01:16:01.480 You came to me

01:16:02.360 for a favor?

01:16:04.280 Your man got elected?

01:16:06.380 It was me

01:16:07.720 that got him elected.

01:16:09.100 Do you have a shot?

01:16:10.660 Question number one.

01:16:12.760 Our guy got him elected.

01:16:15.940 Oh.

01:16:17.520 Oh.

01:16:18.560 We got a claim on you.

01:16:21.380 You owe us big time.

01:16:24.620 Joe Kennedy says,

01:16:26.260 what's happening?

01:16:28.380 He said,

01:16:28.700 well,

01:16:28.860 these Italians are by the way.

01:16:30.120 You fuck with these Italians.

01:16:31.700 You got a girlfriend

01:16:32.480 by the name of Judith

01:16:33.560 Eckner Campbell.

01:16:34.840 She's between you

01:16:35.760 and Sam Moody.

01:16:36.580 You're sharing a girlfriend.

01:16:37.980 You're sending messages

01:16:39.040 to him.

01:16:39.620 He's sending messages

01:16:40.520 to you.

01:16:41.640 Quit that shit.

01:16:43.320 Where's your brother,

01:16:44.440 Robert?

01:16:44.780 Come here.

01:16:45.320 Come here,

01:16:45.660 Bobby.

01:16:46.360 You're going to be

01:16:47.520 the United States

01:16:49.200 Attorney General.

01:16:50.340 All right?

01:16:51.060 Because you're mean

01:16:52.180 and vicious

01:16:52.640 like the old man.

01:16:54.400 Your brother,

01:16:54.940 Jack,

01:16:55.200 all he wants to do

01:16:55.920 is screw everybody.

01:16:57.500 All right?

01:16:58.800 So you're going

01:16:59.880 to get rid

01:17:00.320 of these Italians

01:17:01.080 because they are

01:17:02.760 a pain in the ass.

01:17:04.540 They're a pain

01:17:05.220 in my Irish ass.

01:17:07.960 Okay.

01:17:09.560 He opens up

01:17:10.260 the crime,

01:17:11.940 passes a bill

01:17:13.480 called the omnibus,

01:17:14.800 which is the preface

01:17:16.440 to the eventual law

01:17:18.120 called the

01:17:18.640 RICO.

01:17:22.240 All right?

01:17:22.600 He has a department

01:17:24.620 within the United States

01:17:26.580 Department of Justice

01:17:27.580 anti-mafia.

01:17:30.500 All right?

01:17:31.280 It starts with

01:17:31.900 Robert Kennedy.

01:17:33.400 Now,

01:17:33.840 in the mind

01:17:34.420 of the Italians,

01:17:35.560 they say,

01:17:35.800 wait a minute.

01:17:36.940 I spent the...

01:17:37.880 Wait.

01:17:38.720 What are you doing here?

01:17:39.800 We got you elected.

01:17:41.160 Now you're going

01:17:41.680 to go after us.

01:17:42.540 You son of a bitch.

01:17:43.880 You Kennedy bastards.

01:17:45.660 I told you

01:17:46.660 you never could

01:17:47.140 trust an Irishman.

01:17:49.580 That Irish son

01:17:50.680 of a bitch

01:17:51.220 and so forth

01:17:52.120 and so forth.

01:17:52.680 Now,

01:17:53.920 I used to go

01:17:54.980 to Dallas, Texas,

01:17:56.480 black pinball machines

01:17:57.960 from an old friend

01:17:59.120 of my dad

01:17:59.680 by the name of

01:18:00.180 Abe Sussman.

01:18:01.380 Oh.

01:18:01.540 And Abe was

01:18:02.780 the connection Jew

01:18:04.340 in Dallas.

01:18:06.500 So,

01:18:06.920 Dallas always

01:18:07.980 answered to Chicago.

01:18:09.700 Chicago.

01:18:10.820 Everybody,

01:18:11.620 that crew

01:18:12.240 in Dallas,

01:18:13.300 well,

01:18:13.700 everything west

01:18:14.460 of up until Vegas,

01:18:16.840 Vegas was open.

01:18:17.500 Jackson, Chicago.

01:18:18.460 Jackson, Chicago.

01:18:18.780 Makes sense, yeah.

01:18:20.560 So,

01:18:21.680 if some Jew

01:18:22.660 from Chicago

01:18:23.580 got himself

01:18:24.220 jammed up in Dallas,

01:18:25.840 they used to call Abe

01:18:26.800 and say,

01:18:27.240 Abe,

01:18:27.480 we got one of your Jews here.

01:18:28.760 Got it.

01:18:29.200 Get him on an airplane.

01:18:30.060 Get him that lot.

01:18:30.780 Yeah.

01:18:31.260 All right?

01:18:32.340 That was

01:18:32.920 the system

01:18:34.040 in Dallas, Texas

01:18:35.480 and that

01:18:36.540 explains

01:18:37.720 how Jack Rubenstein,

01:18:40.240 Jack Ruby,

01:18:41.420 was in

01:18:42.200 the Dallas

01:18:43.200 Police Department

01:18:44.280 because he used

01:18:45.200 to buy coffee,

01:18:46.060 hang around.

01:18:46.580 He was low level,

01:18:48.200 but he was a low level

01:18:49.560 Jewish gangster

01:18:51.000 from Chicago.

01:18:52.500 All right?

01:18:53.180 Now,

01:18:53.600 it raises

01:18:54.240 the whole question.

01:18:56.880 What the hell

01:18:57.940 was Jack Ruby

01:18:58.780 doing in the

01:18:59.500 Dallas Police Department

01:19:00.740 and killing

01:19:01.700 Lee Harvey Oswald?

01:19:05.940 So,

01:19:06.620 where it concerns

01:19:09.080 legends

01:19:10.160 and myths,

01:19:11.240 all right,

01:19:12.180 we'll sit here

01:19:13.260 from now

01:19:13.880 until the cows

01:19:14.860 come home

01:19:15.360 because the same

01:19:16.040 stories over

01:19:17.220 and over and over

01:19:17.620 and over,

01:19:17.720 who killed

01:19:18.180 Logis Willman,

01:19:19.600 who killed this one,

01:19:20.760 who killed that one

01:19:21.580 and so forth,

01:19:22.160 who killed

01:19:22.720 Marilyn Monroe.

01:19:24.660 If you weren't there,

01:19:26.220 if you weren't involved

01:19:27.280 in a hate,

01:19:27.820 you don't know.

01:19:29.600 By the way,

01:19:30.400 Carlo Gambino

01:19:31.240 was very smart.

01:19:32.560 He used to send

01:19:33.140 two guys to kill

01:19:34.160 and two guys

01:19:35.140 to do the burial.

01:19:37.660 Why?

01:19:38.560 So,

01:19:38.820 the two guys

01:19:39.280 that killed

01:19:39.660 never knew

01:19:40.080 where the body was.

01:19:41.100 Yeah.

01:19:42.200 So,

01:19:42.660 the two guys

01:19:43.420 who killed

01:19:43.920 never knew

01:19:44.460 where the body was?

01:19:45.220 Right.

01:19:47.080 I'm going to send

01:19:47.940 you to do the killing

01:19:48.940 and I'm going to send

01:19:49.920 him over here

01:19:50.500 to do the burial

01:19:51.180 so that you

01:19:52.800 can never say,

01:19:53.860 I'll take you

01:19:54.880 where the body is.

01:19:57.640 So,

01:19:57.940 you killed,

01:19:58.720 you brought the body

01:19:59.460 to him,

01:19:59.820 he took the body

01:20:00.640 and buried it.

01:20:01.940 So,

01:20:02.360 he knows you killed them

01:20:04.180 but you don't know

01:20:04.780 No,

01:20:04.920 he don't know that.

01:20:06.200 He don't know that.

01:20:07.020 He's,

01:20:07.300 you go to such and such

01:20:08.660 a destination,

01:20:09.820 pick up a body

01:20:10.460 and bury it.

01:20:11.780 Okay.

01:20:12.700 But he doesn't know

01:20:13.520 who killed them?

01:20:14.120 Of course not.

01:20:15.620 Right?

01:20:16.700 Why was that?

01:20:17.460 What was he doing that?

01:20:18.220 Is it too...

01:20:18.760 Because without

01:20:19.440 knowledge of the body,

01:20:21.800 there's no crime.

01:20:24.580 No body,

01:20:25.020 no crime.

01:20:25.360 So,

01:20:25.540 meaning no one

01:20:26.000 really knows what happened.

01:20:26.980 I mean,

01:20:27.060 there's all these stories.

01:20:27.920 So,

01:20:28.200 that was,

01:20:28.580 exactly,

01:20:29.400 exactly.

01:20:29.880 It's all speculation.

01:20:31.940 But Abe Sussman,

01:20:33.560 the old friend of my dad's,

01:20:35.660 told me that Jack Ruby

01:20:36.960 was just a knock-around guy

01:20:38.320 that ran a few strip clubs

01:20:39.580 in Dallas,

01:20:40.320 Texas.

01:20:41.340 Right?

01:20:41.800 But,

01:20:42.400 he was close enough

01:20:44.560 in the police...

01:20:45.520 What police department

01:20:47.380 has a shmigeggy

01:20:48.880 like Jack Ruby

01:20:51.420 hanging in his place

01:20:52.680 with a pistol?

01:20:55.200 So,

01:20:55.680 that,

01:20:56.260 of course,

01:20:57.340 added fuel to the...

01:20:58.180 Any unique story?

01:20:59.880 Any unique story you heard

01:21:00.560 about Hoffa?

01:21:01.440 Again,

01:21:01.680 I've heard many of them.

01:21:03.220 Is there any unique story

01:21:04.280 you have on Hoffa?

01:21:07.220 Too many stories.

01:21:08.860 So,

01:21:09.240 the movie...

01:21:12.160 Meaning who killed him?

01:21:12.820 Meaning who killed Hoffa?

01:21:14.280 No?

01:21:15.160 Okay.

01:21:15.400 I did go to see

01:21:20.460 a hit man

01:21:22.240 by the name of

01:21:22.840 Heshey K.O.

01:21:24.420 Koningsberg,

01:21:25.180 Harold K.O.

01:21:25.880 Koningsberg.

01:21:26.220 He was up in Attica.

01:21:27.500 He was in his 50...

01:21:28.640 He was in his 46th year

01:21:30.180 when I went up to see him.

01:21:31.480 Right?

01:21:32.180 And I asked him,

01:21:33.080 I says,

01:21:33.820 because he was a known killer,

01:21:35.920 stone cold killer.

01:21:36.880 Did you have anything

01:21:40.160 to do with the...

01:21:42.040 Hoffa?

01:21:42.940 Hoffa.

01:21:44.240 None of your fucking business.

01:21:46.540 I said,

01:21:46.760 okay,

01:21:47.200 I'm sorry,

01:21:47.720 Heshey.

01:21:48.920 He says,

01:21:49.420 but I will tell you something.

01:21:51.380 He says,

01:21:52.160 I'm the guy

01:21:54.080 that was involved

01:21:55.400 in supplying weapons

01:21:56.640 and arms

01:21:57.260 to Israel.

01:21:59.600 And I'm here

01:22:00.060 with a journalist

01:22:00.680 by name,

01:22:01.640 an award-winning journalist

01:22:02.880 by name,

01:22:03.400 David Samuels.

01:22:04.820 All right?

01:22:05.080 This is a cute story.

01:22:06.740 So,

01:22:07.640 Heshey,

01:22:08.300 he's there 46 years.

01:22:10.140 He says to me,

01:22:11.780 I'm the guy

01:22:14.520 that told

01:22:15.040 Mushi Diane.

01:22:16.920 Mushi Diane.

01:22:17.960 I says,

01:22:18.200 Mushi,

01:22:18.900 we're on a boat

01:22:19.700 in Marseille,

01:22:22.260 in Marseille,

01:22:22.920 France.

01:22:23.560 All right?

01:22:24.320 And there's going

01:22:25.060 to be guns

01:22:25.660 and weapons.

01:22:26.660 I'm going to just give

01:22:27.440 this to Haganah.

01:22:29.000 I'm going to give

01:22:29.980 this to Ergun

01:22:31.200 and I'm giving this

01:22:32.580 to the Stern gang.

01:22:33.780 All right?

01:22:34.360 And if you say

01:22:35.360 one fucking word,

01:22:36.700 I'm going to blow

01:22:37.400 your balls off.

01:22:38.320 Do you understand?

01:22:39.440 And he says,

01:22:40.300 years later,

01:22:42.080 1940,

01:22:43.420 1950,

01:22:44.540 he says,

01:22:45.800 years later,

01:22:48.480 this was,

01:22:49.000 this was

01:22:49.500 1947,

01:22:52.840 and he says,

01:22:54.100 in 19,

01:22:56.720 it was in 1947,

01:22:58.240 what the hell was it?

01:22:59.140 Oh,

01:22:59.540 in 1947,

01:23:00.600 48,

01:23:01.400 he says,

01:23:02.200 I run into Jabotinsky,

01:23:03.680 the father of the

01:23:04.480 revisionist scientist

01:23:05.340 movement,

01:23:06.120 and he pinches me

01:23:07.320 on my chin

01:23:07.940 and he tells me,

01:23:08.940 good fucking job.

01:23:10.660 Good job,

01:23:11.320 Harold.

01:23:11.820 Good job.

01:23:12.840 Terrific.

01:23:13.720 And I says to David

01:23:14.780 Samuels,

01:23:17.060 don't you say

01:23:18.420 a fucking word.

01:23:19.460 Jabotinsky died

01:23:20.540 in 1970.

01:23:21.540 So guys would put

01:23:25.700 themselves in situations

01:23:27.140 that I was here,

01:23:29.060 I was there,

01:23:29.900 I was this,

01:23:30.740 I was that,

01:23:31.480 and so forth,

01:23:32.080 and so forth.

01:23:33.520 Too many stories.

01:23:34.740 So maybe Michael is right

01:23:35.900 when you said he can't

01:23:36.600 trust anyone

01:23:37.160 in that world.

01:23:38.520 He was brilliant.

01:23:40.520 Michael,

01:23:41.300 Michael's interview,

01:23:42.740 genius.

01:23:43.460 Michael,

01:23:43.840 Michael is,

01:23:44.400 he may be one of the

01:23:46.560 best communicators

01:23:47.440 in the marketplace.

01:23:48.120 He's unique.

01:23:48.880 He's very,

01:23:49.380 very unique.

01:23:49.840 In his own way.

01:23:50.500 Yeah,

01:23:50.760 very unique.

01:23:51.400 Well,

01:23:51.580 listen,

01:23:52.180 I really enjoyed it.

01:23:53.160 I'm so glad you made it out here,

01:23:54.580 and I know,

01:23:55.140 you know,

01:23:55.440 the occasion,

01:23:56.180 it kind of worked out

01:23:56.800 for everybody.

01:23:57.740 We have a legendary person

01:23:59.100 here with us as well,

01:23:59.980 Streaky,

01:24:00.740 that's sitting to my right,

01:24:01.780 to your left.

01:24:02.360 Yeah,

01:24:02.540 my grandson.

01:24:03.300 Yes,

01:24:03.680 but I really enjoyed talking to you.

01:24:05.280 I appreciate you for coming up.

01:24:06.220 Folks,

01:24:06.420 if you're watching this,

01:24:07.500 we're going to put the link below.

01:24:09.160 We're going to put the link below

01:24:10.200 to Myron's book,

01:24:12.040 The Chronicles of the Last Jewish Gangster

01:24:13.780 from Meijer to Myron.

01:24:15.240 The link will be below

01:24:16.200 to order on Amazon,

01:24:18.640 and with that being said,

01:24:19.420 thanks for coming up.

01:24:20.200 Appreciate you once again.

01:24:20.900 Thank you very much.

01:24:21.660 Thank you very much.

01:24:22.040 It was nice,

01:24:22.660 it was nice,

01:24:23.480 and I watched all your videos,

01:24:26.100 and I got that phone call

01:24:27.280 the other day.

01:24:27.940 I said to myself,

01:24:29.320 wow,

01:24:29.640 I'm going to be a superstar.

01:24:31.040 I'm going to have groupies.

01:24:32.520 I'm going to have women

01:24:33.120 who want to take selfies with me.

01:24:35.920 Oh,

01:24:36.220 my goodness gracious.

01:24:36.900 You're no longer going to need Tinder

01:24:38.260 just because of Iotano.

01:24:39.340 I'm going to have to walk around

01:24:40.400 with bigger than,

01:24:41.060 my cane's not going to be big enough.

01:24:42.140 No more swipe rights.

01:24:43.000 I just want you to have

01:24:43.660 no more swipe right

01:24:44.420 from your grandpa.

01:24:45.160 I'm going to have to walk around

01:24:46.260 with a baseball bat

01:24:47.140 to affect myself.

01:24:48.300 All those women.

01:24:49.360 Thank you, Patrick.

01:24:49.840 I appreciate that.

01:24:50.220 Nice meeting you.

01:24:50.860 Pleasure.

01:24:51.340 Thank you.

01:24:52.460 Jewish mob, huh?

01:24:53.580 Complete different story and angle

01:24:54.760 about what he had to say

01:24:55.460 about the history of Jewish mob,

01:24:56.700 how powerful they were before.

01:24:59.120 25% of inmates.

01:25:01.100 Very interesting history

01:25:02.280 of the Jewish mob

01:25:03.080 that Myron shared with us.

01:25:05.340 If you enjoyed this interview,

01:25:06.360 I'm curious to know your thoughts.

01:25:07.420 Comment below.

01:25:08.340 Put a thumbs up.

01:25:09.120 Subscribe to the channel.

01:25:09.980 And last but not least,

01:25:10.900 two other interviews

01:25:11.480 I want you to watch.

01:25:12.660 One is with Sammy DeBogarvano.

01:25:14.300 We talked about Sammy a lot.

01:25:15.700 And the other one is Phil Leonetti.

01:25:17.780 He did an interview with me

01:25:19.300 and he asked for the camera

01:25:20.260 to be off when I was not,

01:25:21.740 you know,

01:25:22.080 to not show his face.

01:25:23.460 It's a very interesting interview

01:25:24.980 with Phil Leonetti,

01:25:26.000 the former underboss

01:25:27.000 of the Philadelphia crime family.

01:25:29.080 Click over here to watch that.

01:25:30.160 Take care, everybody.

01:25:30.800 Bye-bye.

Valuetainment - June 09, 2021

The Last Jewish Gangster - How They Inspired The Italian Mafia

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