Valuetainment - The Mafia's Hidden Money Maker On Wall Street Sal Romano Tells All

00:00:00.000 I get a call from Barry Gesser, Barry Gesser's Jordan Belfort's right-hand man.

00:00:05.120 This was my first direct association as, you know, a businessman with the mob.

00:00:10.740 And I got a call from my mother, who told me that the FBI had just come to the house wanting to talk to me.

00:00:18.000 What kind of money were you making at the time?

00:00:19.500 I'm making probably $50,000 a month.

00:00:21.360 In 88, you're making $50,000.

00:00:22.480 And I beat that car from beginning to end, from the sides to the windows to the mirrors.

00:00:32.040 I had an early nickname where I was the guff, meaning I took no guff from nobody because I guess I was compensating for my size.

00:00:39.540 Always trying to prove myself, be good with my hands.

00:00:45.580 This is probably going to be a different angle of the mafia mob interview.

00:00:49.500 But you're going to appreciate this one because I'm sitting with a man who at one point in 2003 went away for $100 million stock scam.

00:01:00.620 But if you take him back when he was working with the Gambino family back in the days, the way he got started was with a firm called JD, FD Roberts Securities,

00:01:08.340 which he used to compete with a name you may know, Jordan Belfort from Wolf of Wall Street.

00:01:13.040 And he went from there to working with the Gambino family to working with Mikey Scars at a year where the Senate subcommittee talked about the mob was getting somewhere around $10 billion from the stock market.

00:01:25.780 From the stock market, he hasn't done any interviews except for one from UK with Trevor McDonald.

00:01:31.900 This is his first long-form interview he's doing.

00:01:34.120 He's wanted to be low-key for a specific reason.

00:01:36.440 So with that being said, Sal Romano, thank you so much for being a guest on Valley Tank.

00:01:39.720 My pleasure, Patrick.

00:01:40.580 So I read your Wikipedia, I read the articles, no interviews except for Trevor McDonald, the one you do with, you know, the mafia woman, the wives and children, all that stuff.

00:01:50.520 Why have you not done an interview with anybody?

00:01:53.520 I mean, that being said, it's not something that I'm proud of, nor do I really want to talk about it.

00:01:59.800 I still have family members.

00:02:01.580 But, you know, with me, it's about controlling the narrative a little bit.

00:02:04.540 So I don't like the way I'm portrayed in some areas or some respects.

00:02:07.980 So it's probably a good time in my life now to possibly talk about it.

00:02:12.620 Sounds good.

00:02:13.180 So, you know, why don't we go back?

00:02:14.460 Just walk us through how you came up the streets and how you got connected with F.D. Roberts and how you got into the securities industry.

00:02:22.340 Tell us your story.

00:02:23.240 Sure.

00:02:23.980 I was born in Bensonhurst, Brooklyn.

00:02:25.880 I know most of the wise guys you talk to are.

00:02:28.120 And after that, we moved to Staten Island, which literally, you know, everybody goes from Brooklyn to Staten Island, ultimately Jersey, and then they migrate to other areas.

00:02:39.860 So I was raised in Staten Island, an area called New Springville.

00:02:43.120 A lot of big mafia influence there.

00:02:45.900 You had Sammy the Bull Gravano.

00:02:47.380 You had Frankie DiCicco.

00:02:48.840 You had Sonny Saccone.

00:02:50.520 You had a lot of, you know, wise guys that came from Brooklyn and moved to Staten Island.

00:02:54.720 So it was always in front of us.

00:02:56.320 It was always there.

00:02:57.480 It was always, you know, looking at the cars and the jewelry and the money and the power.

00:03:02.320 So it was always in front of us.

00:03:04.060 It was a way of life for us.

00:03:06.320 Did you see everybody?

00:03:07.400 Like, did you see Sammy?

00:03:08.280 Did you see them?

00:03:09.160 Yes.

00:03:09.500 I mean, I was a little kid.

00:03:10.580 But, yeah, of course we saw them, and they were a great influence on us.

00:03:13.440 Plus, the distance between Staten Island and Brooklyn was like 20 minutes.

00:03:17.140 So we were always in Brooklyn.

00:03:18.560 My family remained in Brooklyn.

00:03:20.120 So we were just always around it.

00:03:21.580 It was always in front of us.

00:03:23.440 What was the reputation like?

00:03:24.720 What reputation did the mob?

00:03:25.920 I mean, we've obviously, we've seen many different versions, stories.

00:03:29.440 What was the reputation, even as a kid?

00:03:31.420 Who was Sammy?

00:03:32.280 Who was the cheek?

00:03:33.000 Who were these guys in the streets?

00:03:34.360 Well, it goes back long before Sammy.

00:03:36.260 You know, with my family, it was Carlo Gambino and Paul Castellano.

00:03:39.540 What happened was my grandfather on my mother's side, who's a legitimate butcher,

00:03:45.440 and he came to this country in the 30s, and he was sponsored by Carlo Gambino and Paul Castellano.

00:03:51.220 So, ultimately, they end up bankrolling him in a few butcher shops in Harlem when there was a strong mob influence and Italian influence in Harlem.

00:03:59.760 So he had butcher shops, and he was a butcher.

00:04:01.900 And I don't remember him ever mentioning Carlo to me, but it was always Big Paul, Big Paul.

00:04:06.340 He would always mention that.

00:04:07.700 So my mom was Sicilian.

00:04:09.520 My dad was from Naples.

00:04:11.720 His family was from Naples, so I was half Nabledon, half Sicilian.

00:04:17.200 And growing up in Brooklyn, my father, you know, as a kid, was always in a gang, so he was very good with his hands.

00:04:24.300 He was a muscular guy, a big guy.

00:04:25.920 Oh, yeah.

00:04:26.620 He was definitely a genuine, tough guy, but he was also very educated, so he preached education to his children.

00:04:32.360 So he had the best of both worlds.

00:04:34.420 He was very smart, he was an accountant, and he was good with his hands.

00:04:38.820 So everything with him was making sure his children were educated and could handle ourselves physically.

00:04:44.560 And I was never the biggest or the strongest, but I always thought of myself as being very tough.

00:04:49.900 I was always fast.

00:04:51.100 I never backed down to a fight.

00:04:52.520 I had an early nickname where I was the guff, meaning I took no guff from nobody because I guess I was compensating for my size, always trying to prove myself, be good with my hands.

00:05:03.780 And we were always exposed to it.

00:05:06.040 So my dad had always done business with wise guys.

00:05:08.900 As their accountant, he had card games.

00:05:11.400 He was always a Shylock, a bookmaker.

00:05:13.700 So Frankie DiCicco was always in my home when I was a kid, and he was a powerhouse.

00:05:18.580 So with us, forget about Queens and Gotti and anything that was going on in Jersey or the west side with the Genovese.

00:05:25.620 It was always the Gambino family, and it was always in front of us.

00:05:29.480 So that being said, my father got me a job at Lehman Brothers in 1985.

00:05:34.900 And this is before it was Shearson, before it was American Express.

00:05:38.380 This is when Lehman Brothers was the preeminent investment banking firm in the world.

00:05:42.900 You would make a cold call and tell a prospect that you were calling from Lehman Brothers.

00:05:46.880 They ran to the phone.

00:05:48.580 But with that being said, I saw all the improprieties that were going on even there.

00:05:53.360 Because at the time, we didn't even have fax machines.

00:05:56.120 So there was no way to get news.

00:05:58.520 So what Lehman Brothers would do, or any other brokerage firm for that matter, is they'd sell a stock, let's say $10, and they'd print $14.

00:06:05.660 They'd make $4 a share on it.

00:06:08.220 So FINRA, who at the time was the NASD, they then started implementing the 5% markup rule.

00:06:14.500 But back then, there was no rule.

00:06:15.780 So you would sell a client today.

00:06:17.740 85, wow, what a time to be in.

00:06:19.320 It was the best time.

00:06:20.100 NASD, that's right.

00:06:21.280 So you would sell a client today, and tomorrow, they wouldn't know where it was trading until they ultimately opened up the New York Times and saw a quote in the newspaper.

00:06:29.200 So they wouldn't even realize how overpaid they paid.

00:06:33.680 And that's when statements like, if you can't net it, forget it, and churn them and burn them.

00:06:39.720 That was all Lehman Brothers in the 70s and 80s.

00:06:42.480 How did they get away with it at that time, though?

00:06:44.520 Limited regulation.

00:06:46.260 Got it.

00:06:46.600 So the regulation was extremely necessary, obviously.

00:06:48.840 Without a doubt.

00:06:49.540 OK.

00:06:49.880 Without a doubt.

00:06:50.620 Got it.

00:06:50.920 And that being said, that was-

00:06:52.880 How long were you at Lehman?

00:06:53.280 Three years.

00:06:53.920 OK.

00:06:54.320 And that was my first exposure to this.

00:06:56.540 What a way to start, though.

00:06:57.480 Yeah.

00:06:58.060 But it just looked like the norm, not the exception.

00:07:00.440 It looked like this is the way Wall Street business is done.

00:07:03.140 So that being said, I left there after three years, and I worked for a small firm in Manhattan called Steinberg & Lehman, which essentially was mostly health care venture capital.

00:07:14.340 And I got exposed to that, and I studied, and I learned as much as I could about the investment banking side, because that's the side I always wanted to be in.

00:07:22.620 After I left there, me and my group went looking for a firm.

00:07:26.480 We saw an advertisement in the local newspaper for a firm out in New Jersey, and I went there.

00:07:30.920 They were promoting penny stocks.

00:07:33.280 I had never even heard of a penny stock.

00:07:35.940 But what impressed me was the money they were making for their clients.

00:07:40.560 They were showing, like, 200% returns on their recent IPOs.

00:07:44.940 Clients were making money.

00:07:46.500 Had no idea the quality of the company.

00:07:48.240 I mean, how good can a company be if it's trading at pennies a share?

00:07:52.140 So that being said, I signed on to work with them.

00:07:55.280 Jordan, that you mentioned, was already an employee there.

00:07:58.540 And, you know, everybody that worked there was absolutely clueless.

00:08:02.320 They were all young.

00:08:03.360 They were all uneducated.

00:08:05.360 They were—none of them had the experience I had.

00:08:08.220 So it was so easy for me to rise in the ranks, being from Lehman Brothers, having the pedigree in the background and the training that I received was second to none.

00:08:17.360 Got it.

00:08:17.540 So within 90 days, I became assistant branch manager, which I wanted because they gave me an extra $5,000 a month for.

00:08:24.440 Okay.

00:08:25.060 And within five months, I became the branch manager.

00:08:28.860 So that was the position that was coveted, and three or four guys jockeyed for it, and one of them was Jordan.

00:08:34.180 Had very little interaction with him, but I thought he was a nice guy.

00:08:36.500 And this is before, I think, any of his vices or anything, but he was a good salesman.

00:08:40.680 What impressed me and what stood out is that he was head and shoulders above everybody else there.

00:08:45.460 He was, and you knew it.

00:08:46.400 He was a terrific salesman.

00:08:47.420 In what way?

00:08:47.980 In what way?

00:08:48.660 The way he carried himself, his professionalism, his knowledge of the market, and his salesmanship.

00:08:53.880 Who was he with before?

00:08:55.100 You were with Lehman, but who did he come from?

00:08:57.520 I have no idea.

00:08:58.220 Okay.

00:08:58.520 I know nothing about his past up until that point.

00:09:00.740 Got it.

00:09:01.260 And so were you guys competing against each other or no?

00:09:03.460 You could say that.

00:09:04.260 In other words, what the firm tried to say is in order to get the promotion, they would go with who they felt was the most qualified, but it really came down to production because the last thing upper management wanted to do was lose a rep that could take those positions to another firm and then ultimately sell those positions and drive the stock down.

00:09:23.480 So I had by far the greatest position in the firm, and I was by far the most talented.

00:09:28.620 But the separator between me and everybody else was, A, nobody was going to outwork me, and nobody was going to outstudy me.

00:09:35.320 Including Jordan.

00:09:36.300 Yeah.

00:09:36.800 I mean, Jordan lived far away.

00:09:38.720 This was northern New Jersey, and Jordan, I don't know if he lived in Long Island or Westchester, but he had a long commute, so I don't think he was going to put in the hours that I was going to put in.

00:09:47.500 Got it.

00:09:47.720 Did you guys party together or never?

00:09:48.700 No, no, no.

00:09:49.280 Nothing like that.

00:09:49.940 Well, you guys were in the same office together.

00:09:51.900 Yeah, we were two feet from each other.

00:09:53.680 Get out of here.

00:09:54.400 Literally.

00:09:54.560 So you're hearing him on the calls as well?

00:09:55.900 Yeah, and he was talented.

00:09:56.780 He was a good guy.

00:09:58.220 So script, if you're calling me, what was a conversation like with the client?

00:10:02.100 What are you telling the client?

00:10:03.400 What was the script like?

00:10:04.380 Patrick, you and I had a conversation going back about a month ago.

00:10:07.420 I told you I would only contact you if we had something exceptional.

00:10:11.080 If you noticed in the recent newspaper, our returns have been over 150% on our IPOs.

00:10:17.520 Although I don't have an IPO for you today, I have something really exciting.

00:10:21.780 If you have a couple minutes, I'd like to share it with you.

00:10:23.340 Sure.

00:10:23.740 And then you get into your pitch.

00:10:24.780 Now, the separator is I'm going to do that 400 times a day.

00:10:28.780 I'm going to get there at 745 in the morning, and I'm not leaving until 9, 10 o'clock at night.

00:10:33.300 Got it.

00:10:33.620 So I'm going to outstudy you, and I'm going to outwork you.

00:10:36.200 If I don't know my product, I'm the worst salesman in the world.

00:10:39.140 If I know my product, there's nobody that can compete with me.

00:10:41.420 What kind of money were you making at the time?

00:10:42.920 I mean, again, it's 1988, and I'm making probably $50,000 a month.

00:10:46.840 In 88, you're making $50,000.

00:10:47.880 So I'm 21 years old.

00:10:48.940 That's a lot of money in 88.

00:10:49.820 21 years old.

00:10:50.940 What's life like?

00:10:51.780 Have you started partying or not yet?

00:10:53.500 I'm still living at home.

00:10:54.700 I'm a kid.

00:10:55.920 The partying thing wasn't that important to me because me and my wife, who's my wife now,

00:11:01.080 we've been together since I was 17.

00:11:03.540 So I was already on my way to trying to get focused on getting engaged and having a family.

00:11:08.280 So partying wasn't important to me.

00:11:09.960 Establishing the career was primary.

00:11:11.940 37 years you've been together with your wife.

00:11:13.540 Yes, correct.

00:11:14.000 That's unbelievable.

00:11:14.580 Four children.

00:11:15.520 That's incredible.

00:11:15.980 Ranging in age from 26 to 9.

00:11:18.380 Holy moly.

00:11:19.680 Good.

00:11:19.900 So you're still working.

00:11:20.700 Good for you.

00:11:21.160 Hardworking family.

00:11:22.160 So you're making $50,000 a month.

00:11:23.440 You're 21.

00:11:24.300 You're not a party guy.

00:11:25.540 You're staying home.

00:11:26.600 You and your wife, you've been together since 17.

00:11:29.040 You know, you become the branch manager five months later.

00:11:31.860 You're doing your thing.

00:11:33.820 Jordan leaves.

00:11:34.480 He resigns at that point.

00:11:35.180 Okay, so go from there.

00:11:36.140 So now Jordan leaves.

00:11:36.880 There's a mass exodus at that point.

00:11:39.020 Now, the mob influence that was there was a legendary Gambito gangster by the name of

00:11:44.540 Joe Butch Correo.

00:11:46.560 Who was working there?

00:11:47.400 No, of course not.

00:11:48.520 He's a major gangster.

00:11:49.740 But the firm is on record with him.

00:11:51.720 Okay, got it.

00:11:52.220 So the way it went down is there are two principals of the firm.

00:11:56.660 Their names were Freddy Gagliardo and Johnny Perfetti.

00:12:00.180 And the two of them, the way they dressed, the way they looked, the way they carried themselves,

00:12:04.940 you can see gangster personification.

00:12:07.020 So this was my first direct association as, you know, a businessman with the mob.

00:12:13.880 Although it's been an influence in me since I'm a baby, now it's directly with me and

00:12:18.400 I'm running the show here.

00:12:19.960 So what happens is the security regulators ban them from the industry.

00:12:24.000 So they get asked to leave.

00:12:26.020 This is F.D. Roberts.

00:12:26.820 Yes.

00:12:27.280 Okay.

00:12:27.620 So after they step down, a fellow down here in Florida by the name of Lenny Tucker, legendary

00:12:32.940 trader, he steps in as chairman and he's the one that promotes me, the branch office manager.

00:12:37.920 So F.D. Roberts stays intact, except the people that were involved with the mob, they step away.

00:12:43.620 They had to.

00:12:44.220 They were banned from the industry.

00:12:45.440 Got it.

00:12:45.860 Okay.

00:12:46.300 And I guess the prerequisite was the firm to remain open if those two fellows step away.

00:12:50.880 Makes sense.

00:12:51.340 So Joe Butch Correo's son, Vincent, was an employee there.

00:12:55.800 The day I met him, I said, what do you do for a living?

00:12:58.020 Big guy, too.

00:12:59.160 He shows me his business card.

00:13:00.320 I said, assistant to the chairman of the board.

00:13:02.140 I said, okay.

00:13:03.200 So I looked at this.

00:13:04.400 I said, I'm going to take this place over.

00:13:06.040 This is mine.

00:13:07.520 I'm Italian.

00:13:08.660 Nobody can work like I do.

00:13:10.220 Nobody knows this industry like I do.

00:13:12.520 This was built for me.

00:13:14.340 I had one requisite, and that's I want to open up in Lower Manhattan.

00:13:17.240 I want to be on Wall Street.

00:13:19.500 So ultimately, we do open up on Wall Street.

00:13:22.140 We were there two months.

00:13:23.540 The feds raided the place.

00:13:24.800 The place was closed down, and that was the end of that.

00:13:27.640 So the whole thing lasted maybe 14, 15 months.

00:13:30.480 So the 50K months lasted 14, 15 months at 21.

00:13:33.040 Would you do time or no?

00:13:34.300 No, no.

00:13:34.800 I was not party to any criminal liability because my time there, we had done no initial public offerings, no IPOs.

00:13:42.400 Now at that time, were you licensed?

00:13:43.560 Are you Series 7?

00:13:44.140 I was licensed, yes.

00:13:44.820 I got my license there.

00:13:46.120 You got your license at F.T. Roberts.

00:13:48.180 Okay, so you go to Lower Manhattan.

00:13:50.100 You want your branch.

00:13:51.240 A couple months later, boom, what happens next?

00:13:53.000 We're overlooking the Hudson.

00:13:54.240 We had the most gorgeous office.

00:13:55.760 We were ready to rock and roll, and then it ended.

00:13:57.920 When it did end, I was skiing up in Hunter Mountain in upstate New York, and I got a call from my mother who told me that the FBI had just come to the house wanting to talk to me.

00:14:10.760 Telling her, tell your son to get home immediately, he's going to be indicted.

00:14:14.340 This is for F.T. Roberts.

00:14:16.120 I get an attorney.

00:14:17.780 I go to 2 Gateway Plaza in Newark, New Jersey, and I walk in.

00:14:23.240 There are three FBI agents, two agents for the Securities Exchange Commission, two from the NASD, two postal inspectors, and two representatives for the New Jersey Bureau of Securities.

00:14:34.620 So they get me in this room, and they corner me, asking me to wear a wire to testify against Freddy Gagliardo, Joe Butch Correo, Johnny Perfetti.

00:14:43.380 And I said, am I being charged today with anything?

00:14:46.140 And they said, no.

00:14:46.780 I said, conversation's over.

00:14:48.100 I got up, walked out, never heard another word.

00:14:51.020 So it was a bluff.

00:14:51.860 I called him out on the bluff, and I was fine.

00:15:23.680 Third largest insurance company in the world.

00:15:25.660 Insurance company.

00:15:26.360 Yes, but they had a broker dealer.

00:15:27.760 Got it.

00:15:28.460 So I went to work in an office there.

00:15:30.640 I get a call from Barry Gesser.

00:15:33.060 Barry Gesser is Jordan Belfort's right-hand man.

00:15:36.260 At Stratton, or?

00:15:38.040 I didn't know at the time, but I believe it was Stratton Security.

00:15:43.140 It's owned by a fellow by the name of Jim Terramina.

00:15:45.940 Barry calls me.

00:15:47.040 He says, Sal, what are you doing?

00:15:48.500 You're at Gruntel.

00:15:49.300 Are you crazy?

00:15:50.440 Gruntel's like Merrill Lynch.

00:15:51.620 You can't own Merrill Lynch.

00:15:53.680 Let me tell you what I'm doing.

00:15:54.620 You remember Jordan?

00:15:55.560 So I said, yeah.

00:15:56.740 He said, okay, I'm buying Stratton Securities.

00:15:59.580 Jordan's buying a company called Oakmont out in Long Island.

00:16:02.700 We're going to merge the companies we want you to own.

00:16:04.840 We want you to run the Manhattan operation with the possibility of being national sales manager.

00:16:09.980 I said, let me come meet you.

00:16:11.340 I drive into Manhattan.

00:16:12.760 He's working at, I'm sorry, he's living at Trump Park, which made an impression on me too.

00:16:17.860 Who's he?

00:16:18.240 Jordan is.

00:16:18.740 Barry Gesser.

00:16:19.300 Barry is, okay.

00:16:19.540 I never see Jordan, nor do I talk to him, and I never did to this day.

00:16:23.360 So I drive to Trump Park.

00:16:25.480 Barry's in his apartment.

00:16:26.900 I walk in, and I said, Barry, there's no way in the world you're getting me this early unless you pay me up front.

00:16:32.280 He says, what do you want?

00:16:33.060 I said, $35,000.

00:16:34.340 Cash up front.

00:16:36.000 He says, done.

00:16:37.060 Meet me at the office tomorrow.

00:16:38.260 We'll go over all the terms.

00:16:39.380 I went there.

00:16:40.040 I signed an agreement.

00:16:41.240 He gave me the check.

00:16:42.420 I said, I'll start on Monday.

00:16:43.960 I deposited the check.

00:16:45.600 In those days, checks took forever to cash.

00:16:48.640 Ultimately, I start on Monday.

00:16:50.260 On Tuesday, the check bounces.

00:16:52.220 I says, Barry, you've got to be kidding me, man.

00:16:54.060 How do you let this check bounce?

00:16:55.640 I mean, I'll leave in three seconds.

00:16:57.940 You've got to make good on this.

00:17:00.020 Ultimately, he gives me another check, or I redeposited it.

00:17:02.780 I don't remember.

00:17:03.200 It bounces again.

00:17:04.660 Now, he's with Jordan in an office in Long Island.

00:17:07.720 I drive there like a raving lunatic, and I'm banging on doors.

00:17:12.400 Nobody will see me.

00:17:13.240 Nobody will talk to me.

00:17:14.200 I take a bat.

00:17:14.840 I go under the building into the garage where his little red Mercedes convertible is, and

00:17:20.480 I beat that car from beginning to end, from the sides to the windows to the mirrors, and

00:17:28.840 just destroyed the car, left, and never again heard from Barry Esser or Jordan Belford again.

00:17:34.560 So that was it.

00:17:35.180 And I had no dealings with Jordan there, only Barry.

00:17:37.680 That's literally the story.

00:17:41.140 That is the truth.

00:17:41.980 Okay.

00:17:42.200 That was 1989.

00:17:43.140 So 89 at this point, so the $35,000 check bounces twice.

00:17:48.140 You go destroy car.

00:17:49.700 They go on to merge Stratton-Oakmont and then become Stratton-Oakmont Securities.

00:17:53.860 Has he blown up yet?

00:17:54.760 Has Jordan blown up yet?

00:17:55.640 No, I don't even, to be honest with you, I don't even know, and I'm not bad-mouthing

00:17:59.860 anybody, and I'm not starting any fights.

00:18:02.300 I've never even heard of that.

00:18:03.540 I don't even know what they did.

00:18:04.840 It wasn't like, you know, the most popular firm on the street.

00:18:07.560 They were buried in Long Island doing their thing.

00:18:10.280 You know, but the Wolf of Wall Street, I don't know anything about that.

00:18:13.260 You've seen a movie, though?

00:18:14.120 Yeah, of course.

00:18:14.820 Okay.

00:18:15.240 So you didn't know nothing about the stories of the parties, any of that stuff?

00:18:18.220 No, but that was the norm.

00:18:20.160 That was going on all over Wall Street.

00:18:20.980 Yeah, but you were not in the scene either, so it's not like you were in the scene partying because

00:18:24.000 you were more a guy that was a married guy.

00:18:25.760 No, but my office was.

00:18:27.000 Okay, I got you.

00:18:27.920 Once I blew up and did my thing, like we did the midget bowling.

00:18:32.540 That was you.

00:18:33.180 Yeah, but whether or not he did it, too, I can't tell you whether he did it.

00:18:36.300 I remember a couple of my guys heard it on Howard Stern, because Howard Stern had the midget

00:18:41.360 bowlers, so they had a party one day in the office, and they did it, and I remember

00:18:47.000 that the dwarves with the helmets on, they kept banging into the elevator.

00:18:51.540 So these guys were all crazy, so I was around it.

00:18:54.200 I just didn't encourage it, promote it, or participate in most of it.

00:18:57.080 But your guys did it.

00:18:58.180 All of them did it.

00:18:59.380 Yeah, we had a book.

00:19:00.400 What was it?

00:19:01.120 You paid them to do it?

00:19:03.400 Like, how does that work?

00:19:04.660 It's like, hey, 200 bucks to.

00:19:06.880 There was a service that provided this.

00:19:09.400 That's a business model.

00:19:11.480 Howard Stern was promoting it.

00:19:13.200 It was his thing.

00:19:13.660 What a strange business model.

00:19:14.560 Okay.

00:19:15.260 So, again, not to say Jordan wasn't real, but when you want to say the book or the movie

00:19:20.220 was, you know, I don't know how accurate.

00:19:24.020 Listen, there's footage of this guy partying like a madman, and there's a lot of people.

00:19:26.960 I'm sure they did.

00:19:27.920 Yeah, yeah.

00:19:28.540 So, by the way, I watched a movie in Sherman Oaks at the Arclight Theater where my dad

00:19:34.660 sitting all the way in the back, my dad was cracking up for two and a half straight hours.

00:19:38.720 I said, what did you think about the movie?

00:19:40.220 Great movie.

00:19:41.000 I'm like, okay, dad.

00:19:42.740 Obviously, the critics agreed because it was an Academy Award nominee.

00:19:46.100 Yeah, I mean, and obviously, you have the lead guy.

00:19:47.800 If you're going to have anybody playing the lead, it's not bad when you have Leo playing

00:19:50.900 the lead.

00:19:51.060 Of course, Ed Scorsese.

00:19:52.280 Yeah, that's right.

00:19:52.680 But with little time I spent with him, I liked him a lot.

00:19:55.880 He was a very likable guy.

00:19:57.240 And there were no vices at the time, you know?

00:19:59.500 Sometimes that comes later.

00:20:00.660 You've got to be patient.

00:20:01.500 Vices show up.

00:20:02.040 What do I know about a guy that wants to do drugs and prostitutes?

00:20:04.820 I know nothing about it.

00:20:05.740 Sure.

00:20:05.920 I've never done a drug in my life.

00:20:07.420 So, that's not your world.

00:20:08.640 No.

00:20:08.780 You're not one that getting married early probably helped you out from not getting in

00:20:12.360 too much trouble.

00:20:13.120 Yeah.

00:20:13.640 I mean, I guess, yeah.

00:20:15.320 One of the things that helped me is I had no vices.

00:20:17.520 None.

00:20:18.220 I liked to gamble, but I liked to casino gamble, and I never gambled over my head.

00:20:22.300 Plus, I had the money.

00:20:23.400 I never sports gambled, never did drugs, didn't do the women thing.

00:20:27.320 So, it just wasn't in my, you know, universe, which kept me clean.

00:20:31.340 Makes sense.

00:20:31.860 Okay.

00:20:32.140 So, what happens next?

00:20:33.060 So, this doesn't work out.

00:20:33.500 Now, I go out on my own.

00:20:34.420 Okay.

00:20:34.780 So, now it's 1989.

00:20:36.220 Okay.

00:20:36.540 And I open up one of the first franchise operations of a brokerage firm.

00:20:41.380 So, with that being said, it's like opening up a subway.

00:20:44.020 I didn't own the broker-dealer, but I own the franchise.

00:20:47.400 You're 22 or 23?

00:20:48.520 22.

00:20:49.360 22 years old.

00:20:50.260 You open up your own place.

00:20:51.860 And that is called financial equity resources.

00:20:54.760 I hooked up with an investment banker in Philadelphia by the name of Howard Appel, who was absolutely

00:20:59.680 brilliant.

00:21:00.660 And this was my foray into investment banking.

00:21:04.020 This is how I learned to do investment banking.

00:21:06.640 Like today, they call them SPACs.

00:21:08.380 Yep.

00:21:08.820 Special Purpose Acquisition.

00:21:10.180 That's right.

00:21:10.900 Corporations.

00:21:11.640 Back then, it was blind pools.

00:21:13.460 Mm-hmm.

00:21:13.700 So, we can raise money off a strong management team and then go look for the acquisition.

00:21:18.160 And then, ultimately, that became the reverse merger play, and we were the kings of it.

00:21:22.760 But the blind pool, did it have as bad of a reputation as SPACs do today or now?

00:21:26.320 No.

00:21:26.420 It was too early to have any bad news.

00:21:27.800 It was on social media.

00:21:28.360 Nobody knew anything about it.

00:21:29.480 The first one we did is, you may know the guy, a fellow by the name of Wayne Allen Root.

00:21:33.900 No.

00:21:34.480 Okay.

00:21:34.800 He was like an early sports prognosticator, but brilliant guy.

00:21:38.900 He's got, you know, he's got his blogs and his YouTube thing going.

00:21:41.880 He's pretty famous now.

00:21:43.140 But at the time, it was sports prognostication, and that was the first blind pool we did.

00:21:49.980 Got it.

00:21:50.620 So, 22 years old, you start your own plays.

00:21:54.120 You start doing blind pools.

00:21:56.320 You get the management team first.

00:21:58.060 You get the money, and then you go find a business on what you guys want to do.

00:22:01.300 What happens next?

00:22:01.460 And we're doing a lot of reverse mergers, but we're doing quality deals.

00:22:04.340 Okay.

00:22:04.680 And I think that's what kept me under the watch.

00:22:06.240 How big were the deals?

00:22:06.840 How big were the deals you're doing?

00:22:07.820 No, it was small deals.

00:22:09.400 You know, the way you would normally work, if you want me to give you a little lesson or for your viewers, just understand what a reverse merger is.

00:22:15.600 The publicly traded company is there first.

00:22:18.440 And what that publicly traded company is, is a company that's been stripped down.

00:22:23.120 It might have filed Chapter 11.

00:22:25.500 It might just be a depressed stock that's now trading your pennies a share.

00:22:30.340 So, what we would do is we would, let's say, seek a company looking for financing.

00:22:34.700 So, you come to me and you say, Sal, I need $10 million in cash.

00:22:39.020 We would tell you, well, we're not just going to give you $10 million without having an already inherent exit strategy.

00:22:44.700 Can we explain to you how to go public or that we could take you public?

00:22:48.540 Once you're buying in on that, we'll use our own cash, maybe give you a million bucks in cash just to hold you over.

00:22:54.440 And then we'll use that money or other money, additional capital, to buy that publicly traded company because it's trading at 0.001 cents a share.

00:23:05.200 And there's 50 million shares out there, which costs us nothing.

00:23:08.040 So, once we've bought and seized control of that publicly traded company, we're now taking that first and merging the operating entity into it, taking the company public, hence the words reverse merger.

00:23:21.600 The public entity is there first.

00:23:23.740 Now, we have as much as 20, 30, 40 percent of that stock.

00:23:28.620 The CEO and his management team has whatever, 20, 30, 40 percent.

00:23:32.500 You have 10, 15, 20 percent of the already existing shareholders, and you create that merger.

00:23:39.260 Now, the investment banking work comes in.

00:23:41.480 If the stock's trading at a penny, you may want to do a reverse split, make a trade at a dollar.

00:23:46.620 If it's trading at a dollar, make a trade at 10.

00:23:48.700 Sure.

00:23:48.940 But now we have paper.

00:23:50.640 All of that is legal.

00:23:52.840 The illegality part is as the public is buying, we're selling.

00:23:57.880 And in order to do that, we have to, let's say, promote that stock, which is still okay, but it's the additional compensation given to a licensed stockbroker in the form of a cash payment under the table where he no longer has his investor's best interest at heart but lining his own pockets.

00:24:18.980 And that's the illegal part.

00:24:20.860 Who else was doing that at the time?

00:24:22.040 Everybody.

00:24:22.700 Okay.

00:24:22.980 So, even the bigger guys were doing it.

00:24:24.280 Well, I don't know about the bigger guys, but there's always been additional compensation.

00:24:27.640 I'll give you an example.

00:24:28.800 And this is the way Lehman qualified it.

00:24:32.400 There used to be soft dollar deals.

00:24:34.740 So, the way Lehman used to work is when they used to get a syndication, and a syndication is for, let's say, a company going public.

00:24:41.140 They're doing a hot IPO.

00:24:42.600 And everybody knows it's going to be a hot IPO.

00:24:45.700 So, ultimately, what they would do is they would get a syndication or a set amount based on their production.

00:24:51.900 So, if Patrick was one of the best brokers, he's going to get 100,000 shares of this IPO.

00:24:56.700 Now, there are traders out there that covet, that want, that need your IPO.

00:25:04.480 Now, they can't compensate you.

00:25:06.380 So, what they do is they give you an American Express card, and they say, enjoy yourself.

00:25:10.000 Take your wife on vacation.

00:25:11.340 Go to the bars.

00:25:12.120 Go to the strip joints.

00:25:13.360 Whatever it is, we got.

00:25:14.960 And there is the soft dollar deal, as it's called.

00:25:17.860 Got it.

00:25:18.440 So, that form, or let's say the practice, has been around forever.

00:25:24.240 It's got different names and maybe a different methodology, but the practice itself has been around forever.

00:25:29.720 They're not doing it today anymore, though, right?

00:25:31.340 Well, how do I know?

00:25:32.340 Yeah, I mean.

00:25:32.820 I never talk about things I don't know.

00:25:34.460 Yeah, FINRA's, did they have the gift limitation back in the days to clients or no?

00:25:39.640 Possibly.

00:25:39.700 Did they have the $100 deal or no?

00:25:40.760 Yes, they did, absolutely.

00:25:42.220 I would have forgot that existed if you didn't mention that.

00:25:45.160 Yeah, by the way, we were talking about yesterday with a guy who was a doctor talking about opioids,

00:25:50.000 how these doctors are making all this money because these big pharma companies are giving, you know,

00:25:55.220 whining and dining these doctors.

00:25:56.720 I said, if FINRA gave us a $100 limit for a client, maybe the pharmaceutical industry needs to have a gift limit

00:26:02.200 that they're giving their doctors.

00:26:03.280 But anyways, that's a complete different conversation.

00:26:05.600 Very difficult to go after big pharma.

00:26:07.260 It is tough nowadays.

00:26:08.300 That's why, you know, they're doing what they're doing.

00:26:10.000 But anyways, going back to this.

00:26:11.720 So you're 22-23.

00:26:14.200 You're running your shop.

00:26:15.940 You're doing these blind calls.

00:26:17.060 And it's a very small shop.

00:26:18.260 I got four or five guys.

00:26:19.220 Okay, I got you.

00:26:20.280 So walk me through what happens next.

00:26:21.720 You're doing these deals.

00:26:22.740 Now, this is where the plot thickens for me.

00:26:25.420 So now I'm making some money, decent money, good money.

00:26:28.980 More than FD?

00:26:30.100 Yeah, on certain occasions I am, yeah.

00:26:31.840 But it's mostly with the undisclosed additional commission.

00:26:34.620 $100 a month?

00:26:36.460 Yeah, some months, even more.

00:26:38.040 Okay.

00:26:38.400 So it depends.

00:26:38.840 So you're making a million a year.

00:26:40.280 Yeah, absolutely.

00:26:41.680 So now at this point, somebody approaches me and wants me to finance their finance company.

00:26:47.460 It's like an advance fee loan business.

00:26:50.980 So I look at it.

00:26:52.220 I do my due diligence.

00:26:53.460 It's 100% legitimate.

00:26:55.120 I agree to bankroll them.

00:26:56.400 When I do, I throw my dad in there to watch my investment.

00:27:01.780 He's retired at this point.

00:27:03.660 So he's working there.

00:27:04.780 And I throw my sister in there to answer the phones.

00:27:07.020 So I have enough coverage in there, or at least I take solace that they know what they're doing.

00:27:11.640 So ultimately, this becomes a criminal operation.

00:27:14.280 In other words, overzealous sales reps, using their fake names, charging advance fees up front.

00:27:21.260 So I'm not a participant in it.

00:27:22.960 I don't contribute to it.

00:27:24.380 But at the end of the day, I'm as guilty as they are.

00:27:26.400 The money's going to me.

00:27:27.360 So I'm a participant in this.

00:27:31.000 So with that, I think we received something like 900 inquiries at the Better Business Bureau in 1990.

00:27:37.980 Okay.

00:27:38.460 So that encourages and precipitates a Postal Service investigation into the firm.

00:27:45.040 I give an interview to the local paper.

00:27:47.180 They knew it was coming.

00:27:48.380 I explain to them nothing is more valuable to me than the integrity of my firm, my integrity,

00:27:54.600 what they're accusing us of is wrong.

00:27:56.880 So on and so forth.

00:27:58.540 Ultimately, I get indicted.

00:28:00.500 My dad gets indicted.

00:28:01.920 My sister gets indicted.

00:28:03.400 Very clever on that part.

00:28:04.940 Because my sister, although she's just answering the phone, is now a party to a conspiracy.

00:28:10.300 Which means if I go to trial, I'll beat this in three seconds.

00:28:14.300 But am I going to risk her?

00:28:16.980 And now I have a problem.

00:28:18.780 So I ultimately have to plea guilty.

00:28:20.660 That guilty plea is going to give me a mandatory jail sentence, one.

00:28:24.040 And number two, it's going to ban me from ever working on Wall Street again.

00:28:29.240 So I agree.

00:28:30.560 I plead guilty sometime in 92.

00:28:35.340 And in 1993, I started a three-year sentence in Morgantown, West Virginia.

00:28:40.240 This is a 30-month that you got.

00:28:41.780 Correct.

00:28:42.180 Okay.

00:28:42.560 Got it.

00:28:42.860 So now when I get there, I'm in Morgantown, West Virginia.

00:28:47.360 My father's there with me.

00:28:49.740 And if I can be 100% honest, I'm having the time of my life.

00:28:53.900 This was like almost an organized crime training camp for me.

00:29:00.380 Because all the gangsters are there.

00:29:03.340 Everybody's talking about their war stories.

00:29:05.660 They're talking about it.

00:29:06.680 And there were some big guys there.

00:29:07.960 There was the Jackalone family from Detroit.

00:29:10.700 And my buddy Jackie is now the boss of the Detroit Partnership.

00:29:14.660 They're there.

00:29:15.300 Guys from Pittsburgh, Youngstown, Ohio, Stuberville, Ohio.

00:29:19.700 A couple of guys from New York.

00:29:20.920 So, you know, if you look at every crew, let's say the Colombians are three or four guys.

00:29:25.060 Puerto Ricans are three or four guys.

00:29:26.700 The Aryan Brotherhood are three or four guys.

00:29:28.640 We were like 40 strong having the time of our life.

00:29:33.780 So this is supposed to discourage me when I arrive back home?

00:29:37.880 I mean, if the fear is prison, you could take that element out of my life.

00:29:44.140 And I'm the kid.

00:29:45.440 I'm the baby.

00:29:46.040 They all love me.

00:29:47.060 I'm carrying things for them.

00:29:48.480 I'm helping them.

00:29:49.320 You know, everybody called me the kid.

00:29:51.040 The kid.

00:29:51.420 That was pretty popular.

00:29:52.340 It was well-liked.

00:29:53.600 And we had a ball.

00:29:55.640 So now I get released.

00:29:57.100 And I say to myself, okay, what's my next move?

00:29:59.260 So before my release, I'm doing about six months' worth of research trying to figure out what my next gig is.

00:30:05.380 And it looks like the hottest sector right now, due to the breakup of the baby bells, is long-distance phone service.

00:30:13.540 It looked like you could make big money in commissions selling this.

00:30:17.140 Long-distance phone service?

00:30:17.880 Are you talking like Excel communication?

00:30:20.060 Are you talking like a phone card?

00:30:21.080 In other words, because the baby bells broke up.

00:30:23.400 Yeah.

00:30:23.760 So the phone cards, it's a big business.

00:30:25.860 Sure.

00:30:26.100 And switching to long-distance service.

00:30:27.800 You use AT&T.

00:30:29.160 Well, I'm working for this company representing them.

00:30:31.780 We could save you 20%, 30%.

00:30:33.640 And I'm going to make a commission of up to 30% on your long-distance bill.

00:30:36.520 Do you remember the company names?

00:30:37.540 Cherry Communications.

00:30:38.300 Okay.

00:30:38.680 Got it.

00:30:39.020 I remember it.

00:30:39.520 Quest was doing it, too, right?

00:30:40.660 Quest was doing it, too.

00:30:41.480 There were a few firms.

00:30:42.060 Yeah, there was a few firms.

00:30:42.840 LCP, which became, no, I'm sorry, I forgot what it was, but that became a publicly traded

00:30:48.800 New York Stock Exchange stock.

00:30:50.480 It was a hot sector.

00:30:52.640 So this is what I chose to participate in.

00:30:55.540 So when I get home, I'm looking for, you know, somebody to stake me, and a buddy of mine

00:31:01.460 who was the nephew of a gangster by the name of John Gammarano, he approaches me saying,

00:31:06.260 look, my uncle will put this up because he's a pretty popular guy, strong businessman, strong

00:31:12.400 wise guy.

00:31:13.120 Well, he's not a wise guy, but he's not a made guy, but he's a gangster.

00:31:16.340 His name is Joe Watts.

00:31:17.820 And Joe Watts is making a fortune in this.

00:31:20.360 My uncle wants to put you two together.

00:31:22.660 So I meet with John Gammarano, Joe Watts.

00:31:25.080 I go over this whole business model of what I'm looking to do.

00:31:28.160 Joe Watts is making a fortune with the phone cards.

00:31:31.000 So Johnny Gammarano agrees to stake me.

00:31:34.520 He does.

00:31:35.100 We open up the office.

00:31:36.640 I start doing well.

00:31:38.540 Johnny had always assumed that one way or another, I would go back to Wall Street in

00:31:44.340 one capacity or another.

00:31:45.980 So now the most interesting part of this in the trajectory of my life is now when I return

00:31:52.720 home less than three years later, everybody's a stockbroker.

00:31:57.720 All of Bay Ridge, all of Bensonhurst, everybody's a broker.

00:32:02.780 And everybody is making a fortune off this new invention called the World Wide Web.

00:32:10.920 This is 92, 93?

00:32:12.040 95 now, 94, 95.

00:32:14.560 So now it's the start or the advent of the Internet.

00:32:19.600 Guys are making a killing.

00:32:21.840 So this is when all of these firms popped out of the woodwork and everybody was making a fortune.

00:32:29.000 Now, I'm still relegated to doing the long distance service.

00:32:32.140 I got a nice business.

00:32:33.300 I'm starting to ramp up.

00:32:34.880 But the itch to get back to Wall Street was always there.

00:32:38.900 So then my original partner, Howard Appel, the guy from Philadelphia, tells me about this

00:32:43.500 one stock that he's working.

00:32:44.920 It's called NAL Financial.

00:32:47.240 And it's backed by even Wayne Huizenga here in Florida, who at the time was the chairman

00:32:51.520 and the founder of Blockbuster Video.

00:32:53.780 Very wealthy guy.

00:32:54.860 So I think one of the reasons why I was able to stay under the radar for so long, Patrick,

00:33:00.080 is because we always did quality deals.

00:33:02.380 Like investors always had a shot.

00:33:04.120 There was no customer complaints.

00:33:06.420 And if nobody's complaining, we're not on the radar.

00:33:09.440 So with that said, we did this NAL Financial deal.

00:33:12.280 And this was a hot deal.

00:33:14.160 So my job was to find stockbrokers to promote it.

00:33:17.800 And then additionally, I can compensate them under the table in cash.

00:33:21.100 And we got off again.

00:33:23.020 So now it's May of 1995.

00:33:25.060 I have a wedding to pay for.

00:33:26.500 That's when my wife and I were married.

00:33:28.700 I needed money.

00:33:29.900 I needed to jump back into this universe.

00:33:32.380 And now I'm noticing all this mob influence on Wall Street.

00:33:35.640 You had so many wise guys involved who had a piece of this, who had a piece of this,

00:33:40.280 who had a piece of this.

00:33:41.080 Any big names or no?

00:33:42.700 Yeah.

00:33:43.300 You had, it's probably better for me if I don't get that specific, if you don't mind.

00:33:48.700 Were there bosses involved, underbosses involved?

00:33:51.100 The bosses are always involved.

00:33:53.220 You had a lot of skippings, a lot of capos that were involved in this.

00:33:57.240 The money was too good not to.

00:33:58.520 And let me just say something.

00:34:00.080 The mob has always been on Wall Street.

00:34:02.200 It may be different capacity.

00:34:03.860 I don't care if they find a box of zero coupon bonds.

00:34:08.280 But the point is, the mob has always had an influence on Wall Street.

00:34:11.780 Not to this degree, but the mob has always been there.

00:34:14.320 Even today?

00:34:15.340 How can I vouch for what happens today?

00:34:17.180 Right.

00:34:17.700 You know?

00:34:18.060 Got it.

00:34:18.520 But the mob is, my assumption is yes.

00:34:20.680 If there's money to be made on Wall Street, particularly, you know, when you can corrupt the broker or two, then, you know?

00:34:28.900 Makes sense.

00:34:30.100 Okay, so.

00:34:30.920 So now this is my first deal, and we make big money right off the bat.

00:34:35.800 This is the NIL.

00:34:37.000 NIL.

00:34:37.620 NIL.

00:34:38.060 NIL.

00:34:39.000 So now, a buddy of mine, my best friend for my whole life, who's working at Gruntal, okay?

00:34:46.060 Gruntal decides to make a market, meaning they're going to support and trade NIL Financial.

00:34:51.020 That's how legit this stock was.

00:34:53.060 This is no penny stock.

00:34:54.640 So I grabbed Joe, and I said, listen, your firm's already in this.

00:34:59.320 Why don't you get out of there?

00:35:01.000 I'll stake you.

00:35:02.280 We'll open up a broker dealer under you.

00:35:05.560 And, you know, with these internet stocks and some of the deals that Howard and I are working on, we can make an absolute fortune.

00:35:11.120 After a lot of coaxing and explaining, he finally agrees.

00:35:14.580 So now I have my hands on a brokerage firm.

00:35:17.640 Now, there's a lot of heat.

00:35:19.140 There's a lot of pressure.

00:35:20.120 There's a lot of investigation.

00:35:20.960 So I don't want to put a bullseye on my forehead by owning a broker dealer.

00:35:25.560 So I decide to go the franchise route again, the way I did earlier on.

00:35:29.520 By owning the franchise, you take a lot of the watchful eyes of the regulators and the scrutiny off yourself.

00:35:36.700 And it's more on corporate.

00:35:38.980 So we did a couple of deals.

00:35:40.640 It was a company called Argent Securities out of Atlanta, J.P. Turner Securities, Shamrock Partners.

00:35:47.980 We were able to keep changing the name on the door to avoid any kind of, you know, heat or problems, do quality deals, not be the direct owners of the firm.

00:35:59.720 So the regulatory scrutiny goes to corporate, and we were able to capture a run.

00:36:04.200 And the kind of deals we did were insane.

00:36:06.260 I remember this one deal.

00:36:08.400 It was called Metro Media China.

00:36:10.640 When I started on Wall Street in 1985, there were four billionaires in the world.

00:36:16.260 That's it.

00:36:16.760 Just four billionaires.

00:36:18.540 Number four on that list was a guy by the name of John Kluge.

00:36:21.980 John Kluge was the chairman of Metro Media.

00:36:25.720 Now, we owned a shell company that was already in China, and John Kluge's team was trying to get to China to build out the cable infrastructure there.

00:36:35.940 He couldn't get in there without buying something that he could be more or less grandfathered in.

00:36:41.800 So now we're in bed with the fourth richest man in the world.

00:36:46.920 Ultimately, we put up, let's say, a million bucks of cash, raised $10 million from the public.

00:36:52.280 He put up a ton of money.

00:36:54.360 The deal ends up blowing up.

00:36:56.000 China throws all foreign ownership out of the country.

00:36:59.480 Howard Appel calls me one morning.

00:37:01.120 He says, listen, we're still getting fucked.

00:37:02.880 We're just getting fucked by better quality people.

00:37:05.600 That's a phone call.

00:37:07.500 We're still getting fucked.

00:37:08.600 We're just getting fucked by better quality people.

00:37:10.760 Again, the guy's the fourth richest billionaire in the world.

00:37:13.060 So we always did quality deals.

00:37:15.340 So even though that one didn't work out, I mean, you want to talk about a shot that we had there?

00:37:19.400 You talk about building out the cable infrastructure in a country.

00:37:22.840 So we always did quality deals, and we were able to capture a run as a result.

00:37:27.720 But what made me really deadly, and this was probably the separator from, let's say, me and a Stratton, blah, blah, blah, blah, is when you do this, I mean, this is a criminal enterprise.

00:37:37.540 You're never going to trust everybody or trust anybody 100%, but there has to be some sort of trust.

00:37:45.160 I'm paying you cash in a bag and charging you with going out and soliciting this stock.

00:37:50.280 So how do you get these co-conspirators, Patrick?

00:37:53.340 How do you develop these people?

00:37:55.660 Well, you have a lot of wise guys that have a lot of kids around them, and you have a lot of wannabe gangsters, and this was their way in.

00:38:04.120 By getting licensed or paying another individual to take the Series 7 for them, which became very popular, and now they're told to play ball with Zao.

00:38:13.800 So now I have the mob recruiting the brokers for me because nobody was ever going to shake me down.

00:38:20.140 I wasn't going to pay protection money, per se.

00:38:22.860 That wasn't me, although I knew I needed protection.

00:38:25.440 You can't run this enterprise.

00:38:26.960 But I was too much of an ego, too much of an egomaniac to say, hey, I need protection.

00:38:31.260 Let me pay you.

00:38:31.780 Scratch your ass.

00:38:32.920 Produce something for me.

00:38:34.400 Well, recruit brokers, and I'll give you a piece.

00:38:37.660 So if I'm paying the broker 20%, I'm going to pay the wise guys 10%.

00:38:41.720 I'm going to slowly move up the ranks.

00:38:44.300 I'm a guy that can keep his mouth shut.

00:38:46.280 I don't fear jail.

00:38:48.300 I can handle myself.

00:38:49.780 I have the brains.

00:38:51.020 I have the work ethic.

00:38:52.440 This is a perfect marriage.

00:38:54.840 This was the way it all began.

00:38:56.320 What kind of money did you start making at that time?

00:38:58.480 When you say start or finish, I mean, I'm making it.

00:39:00.620 Give me the finish.

00:39:01.260 What were you at the end?

00:39:02.460 What was your peak?

00:39:03.020 My biggest year was $99,000.

00:39:04.860 I made $30,000,000.

00:39:06.080 You netted $30,000,000 in $99,000.

00:39:08.200 It's always net.

00:39:09.220 It's green.

00:39:10.160 Yeah.

00:39:10.500 Net is the number that matters.

00:39:11.880 So you're making $30,000 and $99,000.

00:39:14.460 And what's, I mean, at that point, is this when you're living in your $5 million home?

00:39:18.260 You got $2 million of trying to figure out a place where to hide the cash.

00:39:21.840 In other words, knowing that there's no way in the world this was going to last, my play

00:39:26.040 and what was in my head is diversification, diversification, diversification.

00:39:30.120 So I spread it out all over the place.

00:39:32.440 $5 million, excuse me, $4 million in restaurants, real estate, all under other people's names.

00:39:39.400 So I was big with cash businesses and a lot of businesses.

00:39:42.420 I don't care if it was a beauty parlor or a pizzeria.

00:39:44.920 Car wash.

00:39:45.380 Everything.

00:39:46.000 Laundry.

00:39:46.640 Everything.

00:39:47.320 Got it.

00:39:47.400 So my point is, I know ultimately this is going to end.

00:39:50.780 So you're going to bring $2,000 a week to my wife.

00:39:53.320 You're going to bring $5,000 a month to my wife.

00:39:55.480 You're going to bring $2,000 a day to my wife.

00:39:57.680 Knowing that I had this spread around, the plan was that if something happened to me,

00:40:02.800 she would be well provided for.

00:40:04.240 I paid cash for my home.

00:40:06.120 The home wasn't under me or the business.

00:40:08.300 So, you know, I did it.

00:40:09.160 I made enough moves where I was trying to at least be able to provide for them if something

00:40:15.320 bad happened for me.

00:40:16.640 And then along the way, you know, we just started doing more and more deals and we started

00:40:21.200 getting more and more popular.

00:40:22.980 And, you know, you mentioned the Paul Anker thing before.

00:40:25.760 And, yeah, it was just a crazy, crazy.

00:40:27.520 What was it like?

00:40:28.300 Are you partying hard?

00:40:29.740 Are you having fun?

00:40:30.580 What are you guys doing?

00:40:31.240 I'm having the time of my life.

00:40:32.080 Of course we're partying hard.

00:40:32.620 Give us some stories.

00:40:33.500 What were some of the things you guys were doing?

00:40:34.860 I mean, you know, I'm hearing the story about $50,000, $60,000 of cash being thrown at

00:40:40.220 strip clubs.

00:40:40.880 What were some of the things that were happening?

00:40:42.580 That was a stereotype for the broker during the time.

00:40:46.180 That was never my thing.

00:40:47.660 So what did you guys, how did you guys party?

00:40:49.780 Well, you know, one of the things I felt responsible for, and this is probably an illustration

00:40:54.220 of how crazy I am.

00:40:55.840 I got involved in the boxing promotion business.

00:40:58.300 Okay.

00:40:58.700 And I wanted to be the biggest and best promoter in the world.

00:41:02.120 But I felt almost charged with the responsibility of bringing it back to the wise guys, bringing

00:41:07.580 it back to the Italians, which hasn't had a foothold on boxing since probably the early

00:41:12.900 1960s.

00:41:14.440 So with that said, I invested in a promotion company, and then I really worked it.

00:41:19.940 In other words, we had some famous fighters.

00:41:22.280 We had Eric Harding, who fought Roy Jones Jr. for the Light Heavyweight Championship.

00:41:26.120 That was Roy's last fight under his HBO agreement.

00:41:28.680 This is when Roy was still Roy.

00:41:29.960 I had James Toney.

00:41:32.320 I had Mitch Blood Green, who fought Tyson.

00:41:34.900 We had Bernard Hopkins, but I opted not to sign him.

00:41:39.160 So, I mean, this was my thing.

00:41:40.400 So this was a passion play.

00:41:41.860 And this is how I ended up meeting Paul Anger, because what happened was I signed an agreement

00:41:45.420 with ESPN, where I was their exclusive ESPN2 Friday Night Fights.

00:41:49.980 That was my show.

00:41:51.120 So we would travel all over the country in these boxing matches.

00:41:53.700 So my casino host at the Mirage was Steve Wynn's sister-in-law.

00:41:58.700 It was Steve Wynn's wife's sister.

00:42:00.580 Her name was Mary Ann.

00:42:02.240 She introduced me to Paul Anger.

00:42:04.460 Paul and I struck up an immediate friendship and relationship.

00:42:08.120 And then Paul brings me a deal that, to this day, I'm sick to my stomach that I passed on.

00:42:13.000 And I'll tell you that funny story.

00:42:14.780 He tells me, he says, Sal, now I own an entertainment company, which we'll get to shortly.

00:42:19.280 But he says, listen, he says, I got a kid.

00:42:21.260 I want to sign the kid.

00:42:22.980 He's got no money.

00:42:24.620 He needs quick cash.

00:42:26.480 So why don't you and I form a production company?

00:42:28.920 So he comes up with the name Ronca Productions, which is a derivative of Romano and Anka.

00:42:34.540 So we formed that company with his attorney, whose name was Stuart Silfen, a very famous entertainment attorney.

00:42:41.560 I have no attorney coverage in this deal at all.

00:42:43.880 And I'm looking at the agreement, and it's this thick.

00:42:45.820 Anyway, the plan was, and David Foster was not famous the way he is today, but David Foster had an agreement with Sony where they were going to sign him to a two-album deal, and I could get my money back almost immediately.

00:43:00.440 So I said, well, how much do we have to put into it?

00:43:02.720 And he said, it's like $400,000.

00:43:04.000 So I said, let me hear the CD.

00:43:06.120 So he plays me this CD.

00:43:07.640 It's Michael Buble.

00:43:08.960 He plays me the CD.

00:43:10.920 So I said, I don't know, Paul.

00:43:12.800 I mean, you know, big band music.

00:43:14.800 I mean, he said, so I'm telling you, the guy's just like Harry Connick Jr.

00:43:19.240 I said, okay.

00:43:20.100 Do we really need another Harry Connick Jr., Paul?

00:43:23.600 Listen to me.

00:43:24.200 If there's one thing I know, Paul, it's music.

00:43:26.000 This guy's got no shot.

00:43:27.300 He'll never make it.

00:43:28.800 Make a long story.

00:43:29.680 That's a joke, but I never said that.

00:43:31.360 But make a long story short, when I'm reviewing the contract, it's me putting up $400,000.

00:43:36.920 He doesn't have one quarter in this.

00:43:39.880 So anyway, I said, Paul, I'm going to pass on this deal.

00:43:42.060 He loses his mind, hates my guts as a result of this.

00:43:45.600 Really?

00:43:45.980 That deal blows up, and Michael Buble becomes what Michael Buble is today.

00:43:50.460 Wow.

00:43:50.580 I was listening to Michael Buble last night, putting my daughter down.

00:43:53.340 She wanted to listen to a Christmas song, so I played a Michael Buble Christmas song.

00:43:57.720 He's got a very unique voice.

00:43:59.900 How do you think we had a market for him?

00:44:02.360 Paul sang a song, right?

00:44:03.680 Sal's way.

00:44:04.780 He did something for opening up one of your businesses.

00:44:06.820 I don't know what it was.

00:44:07.440 No, it was the business.

00:44:09.360 This was my get-out deal, and we had a launch party, and we brought him in to sing it.

00:44:14.380 So he changed the lyrics to—no, I'm sorry.

00:44:17.440 He changed the lyrics of my way and made it Sal's way.

00:44:20.980 Sal's way.

00:44:21.480 So let's go back to the mob.

00:44:23.580 So you're doing stuff with—you get introduced through Johnny G. Gamerano, and then from

00:44:29.880 there, something happens to John.

00:44:31.400 I think he goes away, and then you get hooked up with Mikey Scars.

00:44:34.200 What happens here?

00:44:34.860 Walk me through this.

00:44:36.000 Because Mikey Scars was a couple, right?

00:44:37.500 He was a couple with them.

00:44:38.480 Yes, he was.

00:44:38.740 And there were some stories about him potentially was lined up to be the next boss.

00:44:43.320 Yeah, that came a few years later after he and I were extremely close, which we were

00:44:47.260 not at this time.

00:44:48.480 But Gamerano is my guy.

00:44:50.240 So basically, Johnny's under indictment the entire time that I initially met him.

00:44:55.940 So I'm living in a halfway house.

00:44:57.500 When you guys met at the Marriott in Manhattan, he's—

00:44:59.640 Right.

00:44:59.980 Okay.

00:45:00.700 They did very good, by the way, with your research.

00:45:03.760 The day I meet him, he's under indictment in Louisiana, and I'm in a halfway house, so

00:45:09.960 I'm still in the Bureau of Prisons custody.

00:45:11.720 I'm living in Bedford-Stuy, Brooklyn, at a halfway house.

00:45:14.820 And he and I have our first meeting.

00:45:16.880 And he approached me like, look, I heard you're a big moneymaker.

00:45:20.580 You know what you're doing.

00:45:21.500 You're a kid to keep his mouth shut.

00:45:23.340 I checked you out.

00:45:24.260 Even going to the guys in the Midwest, they have nothing but great things to say.

00:45:27.480 I want you to meet Joe Watson.

00:45:30.120 We'll get hooked up with him.

00:45:31.080 So ultimately, we do.

00:45:32.640 But then, when I'm doing the Wall Street gig now, there's one problem after another

00:45:37.240 that I've got to keep bringing him into.

00:45:39.660 So now, he's involved in pretty much everything I'm doing.

00:45:42.640 The problem that he makes, his mistake, is now he's going away, and he doesn't tell

00:45:48.400 anybody about anything he's doing with me at all, which is a cardinal mistake.

00:45:56.240 His contention was he invested his own money in this legitimate enterprise, and he doesn't

00:46:01.720 have to explain it or report to anybody.

00:46:04.180 Got it.

00:46:04.700 That was a crock of shit.

00:46:05.720 It might have been your own money, but you can't have a more illegal enterprise that I'm

00:46:09.760 running.

00:46:10.020 In fact, Robert Malkinthal, the Manhattan District Attorney, said, if this firm did anything

00:46:15.680 legitimate, it was by accident.

00:46:18.480 Oh, holy.

00:46:19.400 That's his quote.

00:46:19.880 So everything was?

00:46:21.500 That was his quote.

00:46:22.760 If this firm did anything legitimate, it was by accident.

00:46:25.860 Wow.

00:46:26.880 Now, I would challenge the statement, but it is what it is.

00:46:30.540 That was interesting.

00:46:30.860 So now, Mikey.

00:46:31.460 Mikey Scars comes in.

00:46:32.920 No, it's not that simple.

00:46:34.200 Patrick, back up.

00:46:35.960 So now, John.

00:46:37.060 You're teasing us.

00:46:37.920 Yes.

00:46:38.080 You're teasing us with Mikey.

00:46:38.960 Well, I'll get to it.

00:46:40.800 So, John tells, I said, John, what do I do with you going away?

00:46:44.060 I mean, we have beefs every day.

00:46:45.700 There's another problem here.

00:46:47.240 I mean, look at the way we live our lives.

00:46:48.820 I mean, this is not going to be kept quiet.

00:46:51.520 He says, okay.

00:46:52.260 He says, there's a guy in standout, which I don't want to mention his name.

00:46:55.000 He's still very active today.

00:46:56.340 You see him if there's any problem.

00:46:58.160 I said, okay.

00:46:59.200 Then he comes back to me.

00:47:00.400 He says, don't see him.

00:47:01.720 Do you know who Mikey Scars is?

00:47:03.200 I said, yes, I do.

00:47:04.280 He said, do you know him?

00:47:05.220 I said, no.

00:47:06.360 He says, maybe you see him.

00:47:08.060 Then he comes back another day, and he says, you're not going to see him.

00:47:11.560 Just see my nephew.

00:47:13.660 I said, just see your nephew.

00:47:15.800 Your nephew's not even a street guy.

00:47:17.380 How's that going to help me?

00:47:18.920 What does that mean?

00:47:20.900 Anyway, he leaves it like that with me.

00:47:23.660 So, of course, as predicted, we have 20 problems the minute he leaves,

00:47:27.860 because everybody's around, and everybody's earning it,

00:47:30.980 and everybody's doing something.

00:47:32.080 There's going to be a lot of beats as a result.

00:47:34.360 So, now I have an issue.

00:47:36.900 What the nephew decides to do is, rather than put it on record with our family,

00:47:42.180 the Gambinos, he goes to the Bananos,

00:47:45.200 because he's got a friend there to try to represent this.

00:47:49.280 So, now I'm like, are you out of your mind?

00:47:52.880 It don't work that way.

00:47:54.500 You're going to create problems for your uncle, problems for me.

00:47:57.600 This is crazy.

00:47:59.220 But he stayed pretty steadfast with that.

00:48:02.160 Okay.

00:48:02.900 So, now I'm at a firm, and that firm is doing an initial public offering.

00:48:08.380 Okay?

00:48:08.660 There's an IPO coming.

00:48:10.780 And actually, let me back up.

00:48:15.420 So, now, with that said, I try to sever myself a little bit from that problem,

00:48:20.080 because I know this kid just made a major mistake.

00:48:22.300 You don't go to another family.

00:48:23.320 That was a mistake.

00:48:25.320 So, at this point, Michael sends two guys to come see me.

00:48:30.480 Two guys that I know very, very well.

00:48:32.500 Made men or no?

00:48:33.900 One's a made guy.

00:48:34.920 One is a not associate.

00:48:36.600 Yeah.

00:48:37.440 Big guy, though.

00:48:39.080 So, I meet them at a restaurant right next to my office.

00:48:42.000 They call me.

00:48:42.940 And when they call me, I said, who is this?

00:48:44.580 And they said, it's Heckle and Jekyll or whatever stupid name they use.

00:48:48.360 So, they said, we're next door at the restaurant.

00:48:49.740 Come see us.

00:48:50.200 So, I go there, and there's a vestibule there.

00:48:52.800 And in the vestibule, we don't actually go in the restaurant, and one of them says, listen, you guys are doing an IPO.

00:48:58.560 That IPO's got to come here.

00:49:00.260 It's got to beat us.

00:49:01.640 I said, well, the IPO's not going to you.

00:49:03.620 It's going to Johnny.

00:49:05.080 He says, you can't do that.

00:49:06.600 I says, listen to me.

00:49:07.880 Johnny's writing me letters.

00:49:09.100 He's calling my house.

00:49:10.340 He's telling me I got to be strong.

00:49:12.020 He's only as strong as his friends are on the street.

00:49:14.740 I can't give you this.

00:49:16.360 He said, well, this is going to be a problem.

00:49:17.920 So, I said, well, I don't know what you want to do.

00:49:19.480 You want to roll around right here in the vestibule?

00:49:21.340 You're not getting it.

00:49:22.020 I don't know what you want to do, but you're not getting it.

00:49:24.920 That night, I go to a club in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn.

00:49:28.840 Michael's at the bar.

00:49:30.060 And I went there specifically to see maybe he'd be around.

00:49:33.120 I was going to approach him, but I knew he'd approach me.

00:49:36.660 So, he sends one of the guys that I saw in the vestibule over to see me,

00:49:39.780 and he says, Mike wants to talk to you.

00:49:41.420 So, I see Michael at the bar.

00:49:43.440 This is 1996.

00:49:44.680 And he said, you're crazy, man.

00:49:46.420 You go to see my two thugs like that, my goons,

00:49:49.960 and you tell them what you told them?

00:49:51.320 You don't need to see anybody else.

00:49:52.900 Go with me.

00:49:53.900 You just see me.

00:49:55.640 Like, you think this guy Johnny could help you?

00:49:57.620 This is Leonardo.

00:49:58.760 This is, okay.

00:49:59.700 Number one, he's old.

00:50:00.980 Number two, he's not well liked.

00:50:02.460 Number three, he's a drunk.

00:50:03.800 Number four, when he comes home, he's moving to Florida.

00:50:06.100 He can't do anything for you.

00:50:07.580 Who's the time I'm moving to Florida?

00:50:08.820 Johnny G?

00:50:09.160 Leonardo.

00:50:09.660 Okay.

00:50:10.020 Johnny G.

00:50:10.560 Yeah.

00:50:11.260 So, now I got a skipper telling me I'm directly with him.

00:50:16.120 So, I got to make a decision.

00:50:17.980 How much more loyalty can I continue to support Johnny G with

00:50:21.740 now that Michael himself is telling me this?

00:50:24.120 So, I'm going to guys that I respect, their opinion, wise guys.

00:50:27.680 What do I do?

00:50:28.300 Everybody's saying, you don't understand Michael.

00:50:29.700 He's going to be a boss one day.

00:50:31.580 You're in great shape.

00:50:32.560 This guy's going to be a boss.

00:50:34.080 You're doing the right thing.

00:50:35.340 But now, technically, I'm betraying Gamerano, which I'm very uncomfortable about.

00:50:40.540 Am I willing to die over it?

00:50:43.220 Maybe.

00:50:44.060 I mean, I love the life.

00:50:45.160 I want them to be part of this life.

00:50:46.600 This was made for me.

00:50:47.900 And I didn't want to answer to anybody, so I had very lofty goals.

00:50:50.340 I didn't want to be a skipper.

00:50:51.260 I want them to be boss.

00:50:52.540 You.

00:50:53.300 I mean, again, Patrick.

00:50:54.640 You can, though.

00:50:55.020 You're half Sicilian, not 100%.

00:50:56.480 I don't have to be 100%.

00:50:57.500 You have to be 100% Italian.

00:50:59.560 I thought you used to be 100% Sicilian back in the days.

00:51:01.600 No, no, no, no, no.

00:51:02.360 Okay, so you have to be 100% Italian.

00:51:03.840 It doesn't matter for you Sicilian.

00:51:04.460 You don't even have to be 100% Italian.

00:51:06.040 Your father has to be Italian.

00:51:08.700 They changed it, though.

00:51:09.820 It used to be.

00:51:10.260 Your mother could pretty much be anything, and your father has to be Italian.

00:51:13.000 But I'm 100% Italian.

00:51:14.220 Okay, so I thought it was 100% Sicilian.

00:51:17.080 My point is I don't take orders very well, so if I'm going to be in this, I want to run

00:51:21.000 it.

00:51:21.180 Were you really ambitious enough to one day want to be a boss, or no?

00:51:24.240 If it was there for the taking, yes, I would have.

00:51:26.780 Okay.

00:51:26.980 Because I think I understand the biggest mistake the mob ever made.

00:51:30.480 The biggest mistake ever.

00:51:32.360 Besides the fact that there's no loyalty, and they made such a mess of it, the problem

00:51:38.980 is if they ever, ever really implement it, and this is supposed to be organized crime.

00:51:45.720 I mean, look how organized it was with Meyer Lansky and Lucky Luciano.

00:51:49.640 So, you know, everybody says when Gotti came, it's because Paul was a businessman.

00:51:53.620 Paul was a businessman.

00:51:54.520 He didn't know the street.

00:51:55.380 First of all, of course, Paul knew the street.

00:51:57.180 He was indicted and did time for hijacking.

00:52:00.240 So don't say he wasn't a street guy.

00:52:02.520 Maybe, you know, he forgot those roots, and he became a businessman, but that's exactly

00:52:06.260 what was needed.

00:52:07.460 Without a doubt, a businessman.

00:52:09.600 Nobody was flipping at the time.

00:52:11.560 How do you explain that?

00:52:12.780 So what happened is, now with the new regime, nobody's providing for these families.

00:52:18.000 So if Patrick is going to go away for Sal, then Sal better do the right thing for Patrick's

00:52:23.240 family.

00:52:23.640 And with nobody doing that, and nobody implementing that, and instilling those values, and you're

00:52:29.980 left for the Philistines, why would you stay loyal?

00:52:32.560 Why?

00:52:33.100 Why would you?

00:52:34.460 So do you understand?

00:52:35.140 So Omerta was impossible.

00:52:38.320 In my world, this, and I'm going to use the word conformity a lot.

00:52:42.760 Are you familiar with Joe Valachi?

00:52:44.500 Of course.

00:52:45.080 Okay.

00:52:45.600 So Joe Valachi, let's say he was the first rat.

00:52:47.620 Sure.

00:52:47.900 But what Joe Valachi did is he gave Mario Puzo and Francis Ford Coppola the platform to

00:52:54.900 understand a world they never would have understood.

00:52:58.240 And because of all that information out there from Valachi, now Puzo's able to write a book.

00:53:03.900 So once Francis Ford Coppola comes into this mix, and he's such a family-oriented guy, he

00:53:10.720 brings the family element into organized crime in the mafia.

00:53:14.780 And what happens is everybody wants to be part of this.

00:53:18.400 So the wise guys may have not acted the way Marlon Brando acted.

00:53:24.720 Now they want to act that way.

00:53:26.880 So you want to talk about art imitating life or life imitating art?

00:53:30.860 There's the reason.

00:53:32.140 So now you have a whole new spectrum of what this is supposed to be about.

00:53:36.480 But everybody forgets this, Patrick, so let me remind you of something.

00:53:40.760 There was no federal presence.

00:53:43.980 There was no fed investigation.

00:53:46.000 As early as 1960, you have J. Edgar Hoover stating publicly there's no such thing as the

00:53:52.760 mob.

00:53:53.360 So if you're relegated to local cops, you keep them on the payroll, you stay off the

00:53:58.160 radar.

00:53:58.920 It was pretty easy.

00:54:00.340 Then once Rudy starts bringing in, you know, the RICO Act, and now you have that.

00:54:05.580 He changed the game, though.

00:54:06.740 Without a doubt.

00:54:07.400 But before him, Bobby Kennedy really did, too, because now all of a sudden there was an

00:54:11.620 attack on the mob.

00:54:12.480 And the only reason in my world why Bobby Kennedy ever went after the mob was to keep

00:54:16.980 it quiet about how his brother became president.

00:54:20.020 There's a lot of different speculations there.

00:54:21.720 There's a lot of different speculations there because of all situation with they were worried

00:54:25.720 about Illinois with Dewey.

00:54:27.020 They needed those 7000 votes from dead people to West Virginia.

00:54:30.740 They really didn't need Illinois, by the way.

00:54:32.240 That was going to happen without it.

00:54:33.340 And then they hated the fact that there was that you always a favorite type of mentality.

00:54:37.960 And Bobby had the bigger ego than John, apparently.

00:54:40.140 But at the same time, there was a little bit of link with Marilyn Monroe and women and

00:54:45.920 Sonny.

00:54:46.380 There's a lot of different stories to it.

00:54:47.780 But the point is, once the attack on the mafia started, now all of a sudden, and it's

00:54:51.940 publicity now, and it's publicity nobody needed.

00:54:54.240 And Joe Bonanno's book also didn't help, by the way, when he wrote that book.

00:54:57.140 That, Joe Colombo with his Italian civil rights campaign, and then, of course, John in

00:55:02.280 1985.

00:55:03.240 So what shot did this have?

00:55:04.520 So if it's going to be an imminent prison sentence for everybody, provide for the families.

00:55:10.060 Do you think guys are flipping because they're afraid of jail?

00:55:13.240 These guys, these are men.

00:55:14.840 Interesting.

00:55:15.420 Nobody's afraid of jail.

00:55:16.500 They're afraid of not providing for their families.

00:55:18.520 So if you, and that was one of Mikey Scar's concerns as well, when he talked about in the

00:55:22.260 interview with Trevor McDonald, he says, I called the guys.

00:55:25.380 I'm like, wait a minute.

00:55:26.080 I need food for my wife.

00:55:27.520 And the boss said, get her on welfare because she needs to get on.

00:55:31.000 He said, what do you mean get her on welfare?

00:55:31.960 I can't get her on welfare.

00:55:32.760 And then that's when he flipped.

00:55:33.980 They show that in Goodfellas, too.

00:55:35.540 Yeah.

00:55:35.740 So the concern is if you can't support your family, the person's going to flip.

00:55:39.500 Well, that's just one, you know, part of it.

00:55:42.100 Did you follow Tommaso Bochera's story as well or no?

00:55:45.360 Similar story there as well.

00:55:46.940 Slightly different there because of, you know.

00:55:49.820 The point is a wise guy takes an oath to put this, okay, Cosa Nostra, ahead of God and

00:55:56.420 their own family.

00:55:57.900 I mean, only an imbecile would actually do that.

00:56:00.780 You may make that profession at your induction ceremony, but do you think anybody really

00:56:05.940 believes that?

00:56:06.980 Do you want to put this thing, Cosa Nostra, ahead of your child, ahead of your God?

00:56:13.060 I mean, where's that going to get you?

00:56:15.120 So it's a fake statement to begin with.

00:56:17.740 But my point is if they ever implemented something to provide for the families, and there would

00:56:23.000 have to be a formula, you know, based on your contributions.

00:56:26.000 Earnings.

00:56:26.320 Based on where you are.

00:56:27.440 It's still, somebody still would have flipped up.

00:56:29.080 Without a doubt.

00:56:29.760 Yeah.

00:56:29.960 But my point is, I think it would have been contained.

00:56:32.540 No, it would have been less.

00:56:33.300 Okay.

00:56:33.820 So now you get with Mikey Scars.

00:56:36.060 They tell you he's going to be the boss.

00:56:37.240 He's a cop at that time.

00:56:38.840 You're going in.

00:56:39.780 Is this still 99 when you're netting 30?

00:56:41.880 Or would you resist with Mikey Scars?

00:56:43.600 This is 96.

00:56:44.940 So now it's 97, and the FBI comes to my house, knocks on the door at 6 o'clock in the morning,

00:56:49.960 and there's two agents there.

00:56:51.220 And they tell me I'm going to be assassinated.

00:56:53.320 They tell me there's a contract on my life, and it's coming from the west side, which is

00:56:56.560 the Genovese family.

00:56:58.100 So I said, can you tell me why?

00:56:59.820 And they were like, we don't know anything about you.

00:57:02.020 We're just obligated to tell you this.

00:57:04.600 From informants, there's a contract on your life from the west side.

00:57:07.880 I said, and you can't tell me anything?

00:57:09.600 He said, suppose we had some stock deal that went bad.

00:57:12.640 So I said, well, I'm not involved in stocks, so I don't even know what you're talking about.

00:57:16.180 They said, look, we're just giving you the heads up.

00:57:18.740 So obviously I took this as a credible threat.

00:57:21.520 So in my mind, I believe this is Gamerano from prison plotting to kill me, knowing he

00:57:28.220 can't use the Gambino family to kill me, so he had to go to the west side.

00:57:32.860 That's what I believe now.

00:57:35.000 So now I have a choice.

00:57:36.620 Do I sit inside like a hermit?

00:57:38.240 Do I change my lifestyle?

00:57:40.560 I didn't even move into my new house yet, and I only had two children.

00:57:45.900 They were babies, and I'm still on parole.

00:57:49.120 I got a probation officer to answer to her.

00:57:50.960 So now I call her, and I tell her, I guess I'm obligated to tell you this, but the FBI

00:57:55.240 just left here telling me I'm going to be killed.

00:57:57.460 She said, well, if you have any problems, you know my number.

00:58:00.380 I'm licensed to carry a firearm.

00:58:02.660 Great.

00:58:03.740 So now I'm left saying, what do I do now?

00:58:05.920 So obviously I go to Michael, I explain to him what's going on, and I said, would you

00:58:10.960 think I was crazy if I told you I think it was Gamerano?

00:58:13.140 He says, no, I wouldn't think you're crazy.

00:58:14.560 I think you're very, very smart.

00:58:15.860 You've come a long way in these last few years.

00:58:17.800 And we were left to believe that.

00:58:20.360 So I guess this is when I started realizing, I don't want to say how tough I am, but at

00:58:26.920 the end of the day, I wasn't going to change anything.

00:58:29.100 I made the decision that this is my life, that I am in this.

00:58:32.960 I'll do what I can to protect myself.

00:58:34.800 I have my crew.

00:58:35.760 I'll do whatever I can, but I'm not going to change anything.

00:58:38.500 And again, I hadn't even moved into my home yet.

00:58:40.900 I hadn't even bought the new brokerage firm that I was going to buy.

00:58:44.440 And this was just really at the start.

00:58:47.220 So we got off.

00:58:48.640 We did deal after deal.

00:58:50.100 I did all of these other businesses.

00:58:52.280 Things were going very, very well.

00:58:54.300 And then Pete Gotti gets pinched in 2002 at some point.

00:59:00.420 And then at my restaurant, we're having a birthday party for Michael.

00:59:03.820 I want to say that was June 2002.

00:59:07.360 After Michael left his party, he arrived home.

00:59:10.500 And I think at five o'clock in the morning, that morning, he got picked up and pinched.

00:59:14.440 So now he was arrested, too.

00:59:17.060 So now, ironically enough, at the time where Michael is now in jail, Camerano is now back

00:59:24.640 on the street.

00:59:26.080 So where do you think that leaves me?

00:59:28.260 And this is where everybody betrays me.

00:59:32.060 I get bounced around from guy to guy.

00:59:34.700 Nothing but issues.

00:59:35.920 Nothing but problems.

00:59:37.380 9-11 happened.

00:59:38.380 The internet bubble in March of 2000 happened.

00:59:42.100 Things are no longer robust and good.

00:59:44.840 And now Camerano's playing his games.

00:59:46.940 And now this is when everything goes bad.

00:59:49.220 And then ultimately, in May of 2003 is when I agreed to flip.

00:59:53.460 OK.

00:59:53.800 So at this point, a bunch of stuff is happening.

00:59:55.700 And you're getting to a point where you're going to have to cooperate because, you know,

01:00:00.120 Camerano's coming out.

01:00:03.320 You're worried what's going to happen if he comes out.

01:00:05.420 This is, you said, 0-2-0-3.

01:00:06.900 It's right after 9-11.

01:00:08.080 It's 0-2-0-3.

01:00:08.980 So, but pre-talking about what happens when you cooperate, when you're making $30 a year,

01:00:15.820 I'm assuming you're probably partying with the best of the best.

01:00:18.400 I'm assuming you have some stories.

01:00:19.640 I'm assuming you're on celebrities.

01:00:20.900 I'm assuming, you know, you probably are being invited to some exclusive parties.

01:00:24.860 What was the life like at the time?

01:00:27.240 Yeah, well, with the boxing company, which was really my baby, you know, that's what I

01:00:31.660 guess gave me, you know, a platform to do other things.

01:00:34.580 You know, we were in negotiations for about six months with Sugar Ray Leonard's company.

01:00:39.400 He had formed Sugar Ray Leonard Boxing, and he was throwing his hat in the ring with promotion

01:00:43.220 firm as well.

01:00:44.140 So we had a few meetings with him.

01:00:45.720 We hit it off very, very well.

01:00:47.700 And then that became meeting with Tommy Hearns and his management to try to acquire the Kronk

01:00:54.680 name out of Detroit, Kronk Boxing.

01:00:57.300 We've been negotiating with them.

01:00:59.320 Simultaneously, we had acquired the rights.

01:01:01.060 I signed the license agreement to Gleason's Gym in Brooklyn.

01:01:04.580 And we had opened up an additional, like a satellite operation of Gleason's in Long

01:01:09.080 Island, where we had Gleason's 2.

01:01:11.540 So what we were utilizing this for was a stable of bringing up young, upcoming fighters.

01:01:16.220 We could keep a pulse on them.

01:01:17.660 We could bankroll them, finance them, try to, you know, be instrumental in their careers.

01:01:22.620 So, you know, during that and, you know, doing a lot of traveling to Vegas, Southern

01:01:26.200 California, the Foxwoods in Connecticut, you know, we were always hobnobbing with a lot

01:01:31.680 of celebrities.

01:01:32.940 So Joe Montana had approached the associate of mine where he was doing a lifestyle magazine

01:01:37.600 called Joe Montana's In the Red Zone, which was a lifestyle sports magazine.

01:01:43.160 What year is this?

01:01:43.900 This was 97, I want to say.

01:01:47.080 Is he still playing for the Chiefs?

01:01:48.360 He's not.

01:01:48.860 No, he's no longer playing.

01:01:49.720 No, he's done now.

01:01:50.120 Yeah, he's done.

01:01:50.480 So he came to me, he came to our office, and we had acquired, I want to say, probably

01:01:56.200 upwards of 50% of the rights to that magazine.

01:01:59.640 So the magazine had launched.

01:02:01.580 We had run, you know, two consecutive months.

01:02:03.700 It did pretty well.

01:02:04.920 And then essentially, Paul Anker had introduced me to a guy by the name of Bernie Eumann.

01:02:10.680 Bernie Eumann only managed, he was a manager.

01:02:13.540 He only managed two acts in his entire life, Muhammad Ali and Siegfried and Roy.

01:02:18.440 Wow.

01:02:19.100 And he's the one that landed Siegfried and Roy that big deal at the Mirage.

01:02:22.740 Paul Anker's best friend is Steve Wynn, the owner of the Mirage.

01:02:26.960 So at the time when we did the Montana magazine, we wanted to approach Ali.

01:02:31.500 We wanted to try to do something with Ali.

01:02:34.280 Now, Anker had had his own vision in mind.

01:02:36.720 What he wanted to do was because of the relationship with Bernie Eumann and the Mirage, as well as,

01:02:43.900 you know, his intimate information on the Rat Pack and the special effects that they utilize for Siegfried and Roy.

01:02:51.620 Paul Anker wanted to do this entire show where he brings back the Rat Pack back to life to,

01:02:58.400 I guess, with holograms to perform with him, utilizing the special effects of Siegfried and Roy.

01:03:05.080 So Bernie Eumann agreed to meet with me.

01:03:08.080 We met at the Four Seasons in Manhattan and we were trying to get that show off.

01:03:12.920 The prerequisite that I gave him, I said, you got to get me Ali.

01:03:16.560 Everybody told me that Ali was untouchable.

01:03:18.840 You could never get to Ali, that he'll never do anything.

01:03:22.840 With that said, Bernie was able to get me Ali.

01:03:25.360 And we did the Muhammad Ali, I think it was for his 50th birthday at the time,

01:03:30.480 the commemorative special magazine for his 50th birthday,

01:03:34.920 which was coming out simultaneously with the release of Will Smith's film, Ali.

01:03:39.580 So we had that deal in the pipeline.

01:03:41.900 Do these guys, did Montana, did Ali, did their camp at all know that you're an associate with the Gambino family or not at all?

01:03:47.000 I don't think initially, but over time, yes, because Paul Anker absolutely did.

01:03:52.060 It's one of the reasons why Anker fell in love with me.

01:03:53.980 In other words, Anker was a kid.

01:03:56.000 When I say kid, he was in his mid-20s to early-30s during the time of the Rat Pack.

01:04:01.840 But they took him under his wing.

01:04:03.180 I mean, he wrote songs for Sammy Davis.

01:04:05.140 He wrote My Way for Sinatra.

01:04:07.120 So Anker would be out there.

01:04:08.900 Legend. I mean, he's a...

01:04:10.120 So he saw us, me and my crew, in reverse.

01:04:15.120 In other words, now he was Sinatra and we were the young guys around him and that's what he loved.

01:04:20.040 So I traveled all over the country with him.

01:04:22.260 In other words, we were either promoting boxing matches or hanging with him.

01:04:25.980 He was going through a pretty ugly divorce at the time, which nobody knew about.

01:04:30.360 So he was traveling with his girlfriend.

01:04:32.240 You know, I mean, he let me into that world and I became very, very close.

01:04:36.020 But as a result, I was forming a sports media entertainment company that I was ultimately going to take public.

01:04:42.760 And I made him, you know, like an advisory board member and then ultimately the CEO of the advisory board.

01:04:49.640 So he was able to bring me a lot of properties that ordinarily I wouldn't have access to.

01:04:53.580 Not a shareholder, though. He wasn't a shareholder.

01:04:54.440 He was a warrant holder.

01:04:55.700 Warrant holder. Okay, there's a difference.

01:04:56.740 So he did not own stock, but he owned warrants.

01:04:58.440 He was protected if it's warrants.

01:04:59.520 So it's slightly different than having shares.

01:05:01.840 So when I knew that the heat was on me and the pressure was coming, what I decided to do was take all of these properties that I owned,

01:05:08.800 anything that could be deemed media, entertainment, leisure, and even roll up the restaurants that I had into a publicly traded show.

01:05:16.800 I bought a company called Jaguar Investments.

01:05:19.880 I had 35 million shares.

01:05:21.700 Jaguar was trading at $6 a share.

01:05:24.660 And this was my get-out deal.

01:05:26.480 So now this is after the internet bubble, which hurt us greatly in March of 2000.

01:05:31.660 We're entering 2001.

01:05:34.000 I needed, well, we had more properties.

01:05:36.040 We had a Grease remake starring Britney Spears and Justin Timberlake in the year 2000 when nobody even knew who these kids were.

01:05:43.940 So they were, they were.

01:05:45.460 Get out of here.

01:05:45.920 They weren't popular yet, but they were known.

01:05:48.300 So we had, we had Justin Timberlake and Britney Spears signed to do a Grease remake, one.

01:05:54.960 We had a contract with NBC to do the first reality golf circuit tournament, which at the time, the only reality show out at the time was Survivor.

01:06:04.600 So NBC loved this model.

01:06:07.320 We had the rights to John Travolta's next three films.

01:06:11.680 We bought a small production company, a guy by the name of Jonathan Crane.

01:06:14.820 And he had the rights to Travolta's next three films.

01:06:18.100 This is at a time where he had just released Swordfish, just to put a timeline to it.

01:06:23.360 So we had what we deemed-

01:06:25.080 Do you like Swordfish?

01:06:26.340 That was all right.

01:06:27.400 That was crazy.

01:06:28.280 I'm with you.

01:06:29.080 Go ahead.

01:06:29.340 That would have been the first film we did.

01:06:30.660 So at this point, you're worth about a quarter of a billion.

01:06:33.680 If you take that paper on that year.

01:06:34.980 35 times 6, that's 210.

01:06:36.580 But that's without all the other assets.

01:06:38.220 Remember, I owned a brokerage firm that managed a half a billion dollars in assets.

01:06:41.760 So at your peak, what was your net worth at your peak?

01:06:43.160 I don't know.

01:06:43.880 I don't know.

01:06:44.280 It's too fragmented.

01:06:45.760 Yeah.

01:06:45.960 I mean, if you go the value of the brokerage firm and all the paper that I own.

01:06:50.020 I mean, at one point, we had done four penny stocks, literally pennies.

01:06:53.860 In January of 2000, all four of them were trading north of $30 a share.

01:06:59.640 A penny stock to $30?

01:07:00.740 Yeah.

01:07:01.000 I mean, because they were all technology driven.

01:07:03.080 And now-

01:07:03.440 I got you.

01:07:04.000 I mean, we bought the Yahoo IPO.

01:07:06.320 It was up 100 points in one day.

01:07:07.800 This was a crazy time.

01:07:09.060 It was so hard for me to qualify it or quantify the amount.

01:07:13.120 It really was.

01:07:13.680 It was very difficult.

01:07:14.360 Makes sense.

01:07:15.080 Why didn't you go legit, though?

01:07:16.140 Why didn't you go legit?

01:07:16.960 I was planning to with this premiere deal.

01:07:18.900 But I waited till, you know, the heat got to the point where it was inevitable that I was to be finished.

01:07:23.020 You think you would ever go legit, though?

01:07:24.880 You know how everybody says, I was planning.

01:07:26.560 Like, you know the movie.

01:07:27.320 What's that one movie?

01:07:27.960 I love the movie.

01:07:28.800 Carlito's Way.

01:07:29.880 Where he gets-

01:07:30.440 I said, I'm not doing that.

01:07:31.440 You know, I'm not doing this.

01:07:32.280 And then he's taking his nephew.

01:07:33.360 The nephew gets shot up at this one bar.

01:07:35.560 And he's like, well, you know, one day we're going to go live.

01:07:37.740 I'm telling you, we're going to go live this place.

01:07:39.400 And then, you know, Benny Blanco from the Bronx shows up at the end and says, hey, remember me, Benny Blanco from the Bronx?

01:07:44.000 Of course.

01:07:44.380 Everybody says they're going to leave.

01:07:46.000 But are you really going to leave the light?

01:07:47.620 Patrick, here's the way I'll frame it to you, okay?

01:07:49.600 In all honesty.

01:07:50.460 Yeah.

01:07:50.660 Because I'm probably the biggest hypocrite in the world.

01:07:53.360 In other words, I believed I was somewhat legit.

01:07:56.680 I did quality companies.

01:07:58.160 People were making money.

01:07:59.620 There were no victims.

01:08:01.280 It's not like we were robbing pension funds and widows or Bernie Madoff with a Ponzi scheme.

01:08:07.040 I wore a suit and tie every day.

01:08:09.160 I got in earlier than anybody.

01:08:10.840 I stayed later.

01:08:11.860 And I worked.

01:08:12.860 And I tried to develop.

01:08:13.980 The crimes that we're guilty of, enterprise corruption, racketeering, money laundering, bribery, the furtherance of organized crime, tax evasion, all guilty as charged.

01:08:26.620 But I could always shave my own face in the mirror and sleep soundly at night because I never robbed people.

01:08:31.840 That wasn't my game.

01:08:33.140 We weren't doing fake companies and hurting the public.

01:08:35.820 There were no victims at the time.

01:08:37.580 The only time that victims developed, and there was a manifestation of it, but the only time that manifested into victims was after the Internet bubble in March of 2000 because then everything came crashing down as well as the heat.

01:08:53.280 So this enterprise, this premier sports media and entertainment group that I tried to do, tried to build, would have been the get-out deal.

01:09:01.840 But the mob was still a very, very stronghold in my life.

01:09:05.740 If I was going to be in this, I was going to try to be boss.

01:09:08.600 So to say legit, no.

01:09:10.140 I never thought about going legit because the mob was always a big stronghold on me.

01:09:14.320 Did you ever have any direct dealings with any of the bosses or no?

01:09:17.480 Yeah, Louis Daydon.

01:09:18.700 He was the boss of the Lucchese, acting boss of the Lucchese family.

01:09:21.400 He was a very, very dear friend.

01:09:22.760 When we did the fall ankle launch party, he grabbed my mother, pulled her aside.

01:09:26.040 He said, your son, Mrs. Romano, is a rose among thorns.

01:09:31.040 And I'll never forget him saying that.

01:09:32.500 Wow.

01:09:32.680 And then he grabbed Michael and he said, Michael, when are you going to straighten this kid out?

01:09:35.820 If you don't make him, I am.

01:09:37.440 So yeah, I was very liked.

01:09:38.840 And Louis did a lot of business.

01:09:40.360 Well, I did some business where I shouldn't say a lot.

01:09:42.340 Mostly moving money around.

01:09:43.860 And I loved him to death.

01:09:45.260 He's doing life sentence now in Lewisburg, I believe.

01:09:47.700 Or Allynwood, excuse me.

01:09:49.160 So 03, you decide to cooperate.

01:09:51.460 What happens next when you cooperate?

01:09:52.560 I didn't decide to cooperate.

01:09:54.420 You were forced.

01:09:55.020 No, you're never forced.

01:09:56.260 I made a decision.

01:09:57.140 But I was greatly betrayed.

01:09:59.820 And that's what encouraged my thinking to cooperate.

01:10:02.720 Michael had already flipped.

01:10:04.160 And I knew Michael, you know, reluctantly would have to tell them everything about me.

01:10:09.200 I knew I had an investigation that was ramping up from the district attorney's office in Manhattan.

01:10:15.620 So I knew I had state problems.

01:10:17.760 I knew I had Fed problems.

01:10:19.160 And I knew the heat was closing in on me.

01:10:21.180 I would have done my time.

01:10:22.240 I never in a million years would have agreed to cooperate.

01:10:24.920 What really encouraged my thought process on cooperating is the betrayal.

01:10:30.120 In other words, I was doing business with a very famous producer who's also one of the largest real estate holders in the United States.

01:10:38.120 And he's about two blocks south of here.

01:10:41.220 So unfortunately, I don't want to get into his name, but he's a big guy.

01:10:44.140 And he was corrupt.

01:10:46.220 And we were doing a lot of things together.

01:10:48.940 And that being said, he was in bed with another fella.

01:10:53.560 And I will mention that name, a guy by the name of Eli Weinstein.

01:10:57.760 That name meant nothing to me.

01:10:59.620 I had no idea who that is.

01:11:01.580 Anyway, I met with a skipper in the Gambino family, Capo, who pulled me in and said,

01:11:07.280 You're doing business with this Norton Herrick guy?

01:11:09.880 So I said, Yeah.

01:11:10.600 He just gave me a $6 million mortgage on my house.

01:11:13.180 In other words, I had paid cash for my house.

01:11:15.620 And when I knew the heat was coming in, this was a good time to pull money out of it.

01:11:19.320 So I said, Yeah, I'm doing a lot of business with him.

01:11:21.200 He's got like $10 million in cash up with me.

01:11:23.000 He just gave me $6 million from my house.

01:11:25.020 He said, Okay.

01:11:25.780 He says, He's got something that this Eli Weinstein wants.

01:11:31.280 We need you to go to him and tell him to give Eli Weinstein back everything.

01:11:35.580 I said, How do you even know who this guy is?

01:11:39.260 And how are you putting him with me?

01:11:41.700 What do you know?

01:11:43.040 I had another meeting, and a guy had another wise guy, and that guy had a post-it, a little

01:11:46.840 yellow post-it, and it said the name of this producer.

01:11:50.640 And he said, Sal, I want to talk to you about this guy.

01:11:53.100 I said, You're another one.

01:11:54.760 What do you guys have to do with my guy?

01:11:57.080 He's mine.

01:11:58.060 How does anybody even know this guy exists?

01:12:01.340 He said, Does Eli Weinstein give it back?

01:12:03.180 Tell him to give it back to him.

01:12:04.620 Okay.

01:12:05.400 I go to this guy, and I said, Look, this is what I've been told.

01:12:08.080 You know who I am.

01:12:09.600 You've got to give it back to him.

01:12:11.540 He says, I'm not doing anything without me talking to my guy, and my guy's in Chicago.

01:12:16.660 I said, Well, you're going to have to give me a name so we can make our people talk to him.

01:12:20.500 Anyway, to make a long story short,

01:12:22.580 I was then met with the same capo, and he said,

01:12:27.580 Sal, you know this guy that you're shaking down for all this money?

01:12:30.700 Back the fuck off him.

01:12:34.320 What the hell are you talking about?

01:12:36.540 Now you're protecting him?

01:12:39.260 Are you guys crazy?

01:12:40.200 What are you talking about?

01:12:41.800 Now you fast forward to today.

01:12:43.660 Today.

01:12:44.660 The last order of business that Donald J. Trump did as President of the United States

01:12:49.760 is he granted a presidential pardon to Eli Weinstein,

01:12:53.260 who received a 20-year sentence for embezzling $300 million from the Jewish community

01:12:59.080 of people he saw every day.

01:13:01.380 So if Trump wanted to commute a sentence,

01:13:03.580 you'll do that for somebody that's wrongfully accused,

01:13:06.760 you know, harshly judged,

01:13:08.340 or a myriad of reasons that you could justify.

01:13:11.660 This guy embezzled $300 million from his community

01:13:15.660 and got a presidential pardon as a result.

01:13:18.540 He did six years on a 25- or 30-year sentence

01:13:22.500 that when he was out on bond,

01:13:24.180 he committed a further crime and robbed $45 million

01:13:27.140 regarding an investment in Facebook.

01:13:29.840 While he was out on bond,

01:13:31.680 Trump, excuse me,

01:13:32.460 he did not give him a pardon.

01:13:33.320 He commuted a sentence down to an immediate release.

01:13:36.060 And that was the last order of business that Trump did

01:13:38.340 as he was walking out the door.

01:13:40.160 Who the hell is this guy?

01:13:42.800 No, nothing.

01:13:44.320 All I know is that's what my research showed as early as a week ago.

01:13:50.140 That's insane.

01:13:50.880 What a connection of the stories.

01:13:52.520 And by the way,

01:13:52.880 if you're saying the big producer,

01:13:54.660 real estate,

01:13:55.380 I mean,

01:13:55.560 you pretty much gave him away.

01:13:56.720 I mean,

01:13:56.880 it's the name,

01:13:58.440 but that's a whole different story.

01:13:59.620 I won't say the name.

01:14:00.480 I'll say the name.

01:14:01.600 Go for it.

01:14:02.100 Norton Herrick.

01:14:02.760 Okay.

01:14:03.320 You knew that?

01:14:04.660 If you're saying here local,

01:14:06.400 yeah.

01:14:07.260 So it's not going to be hard to figure that part out.

01:14:10.400 But anyway,

01:14:10.960 so I was doing a ton of business.

01:14:12.780 He was one of my largest investors.

01:14:14.300 I mean,

01:14:14.440 we had a lot of,

01:14:15.200 you know,

01:14:15.620 we had Paul DeGioia,

01:14:16.880 who's the owner of Paul Mitchell.

01:14:18.860 We had the Bellsberg family up in Canada,

01:14:21.560 the Seagram's family.

01:14:22.980 I mean,

01:14:23.200 this is the kind of money that we were around.

01:14:25.040 So we always did legit deals.

01:14:27.260 And that's why I was able to stay under the watchful eye of the regulators for so long.

01:14:31.000 These are the type of deals we did.

01:14:32.580 But this Norton Herrick guy,

01:14:34.340 I mean,

01:14:34.600 there's a Patrick,

01:14:35.580 it would take me three hours to explain that story.

01:14:38.100 He and I were joined at the hip.

01:14:39.500 He had a publicly traded company.

01:14:41.180 I was working it.

01:14:42.480 From time to time,

01:14:43.460 he asked me to drive the price down of his publicly traded company.

01:14:48.040 The reason for that is things were,

01:14:51.160 it was a tumultuous market.

01:14:52.920 He believed the banks would give him more favorable rates if they believed that he was imminently looking to file chapter.

01:14:59.540 So,

01:14:59.700 I mean,

01:14:59.940 this goes on and on and on.

01:15:02.020 And then I recorded tape conversations of him.

01:15:05.080 I was trying to extort him to get the deed to my home back.

01:15:08.920 He ran in the guys that were with me or I was with are now betraying me for him.

01:15:14.480 And it goes on and on like that.

01:15:18.300 Everybody betrays everybody in that world.

01:15:20.960 It's a very,

01:15:21.800 uh,

01:15:22.060 the only guy that from,

01:15:25.020 uh,

01:15:25.180 I had a meeting with Sonny Francis.

01:15:26.980 I don't know if you know Sonny.

01:15:27.940 Of course,

01:15:28.360 you know Michael's father,

01:15:29.100 Sonny Francis.

01:15:29.240 I know who he is.

01:15:29.960 I had a meeting with Sonny three times.

01:15:32.340 We met because I was trying to do the interview and every time.

01:15:35.700 No.

01:15:36.300 Last time I went out there,

01:15:37.460 we took a crew of five of us,

01:15:38.740 six of us camera.

01:15:40.060 And I took him to an Italian restaurant.

01:15:41.620 I'm driving him to the Italian restaurant.

01:15:43.000 He's 102 years old.

01:15:43.800 We're moving him with a wheelchair,

01:15:44.880 but the guy had the energy of a 20 year old.

01:15:47.700 He could talk.

01:15:49.200 So what do you think about such and such?

01:15:51.340 Great guy.

01:15:52.440 What do you think about lucky?

01:15:53.400 He's your era.

01:15:54.000 You're from his era.

01:15:55.200 Fantastic guy.

01:15:56.300 What do you think about Ben Siegel?

01:15:58.080 Great guy.

01:15:58.740 How about Meyer?

01:16:00.000 Great family guy.

01:16:01.540 Was Meyer a billionaire?

01:16:02.620 I don't know what you're talking about.

01:16:04.400 So he was so,

01:16:05.800 he did 55 years in jail.

01:16:08.060 55 years just because he said,

01:16:09.680 this is the life I chose.

01:16:11.180 He stuck to it.

01:16:11.980 And allegedly he was innocent on that original charge.

01:16:14.080 He was innocent.

01:16:14.820 Yeah,

01:16:14.980 he was innocent on that.

01:16:15.880 Other things he was not,

01:16:16.840 but on that one charge,

01:16:17.860 they got him.

01:16:18.300 They wanted to kind of just.

01:16:19.140 And then he kept violating.

01:16:20.340 Yeah.

01:16:20.780 But on that one charge,

01:16:22.780 yes,

01:16:23.100 he was innocent on that one charge.

01:16:24.660 So 03,

01:16:25.940 you cooperate,

01:16:26.920 you chose to.

01:16:27.640 At this point,

01:16:28.980 what happens to life from 03 to today?

01:16:31.720 Did you stay low key intentionally?

01:16:33.380 Like,

01:16:33.540 listen,

01:16:33.820 I'm just going to,

01:16:34.380 what did you do from 03?

01:16:35.520 The opposite.

01:16:36.460 You know,

01:16:36.980 I opened up a legitimate,

01:16:38.400 they relocated me to San Diego,

01:16:40.980 California.

01:16:41.500 Most of my partners were Persian,

01:16:44.460 like yourself.

01:16:45.440 It almost got to the point where I could speak fluent Farsi at this point.

01:16:47.840 Get out of here.

01:16:48.700 I mean,

01:16:48.960 everybody was Iranian.

01:16:50.160 So I did business with all Persians.

01:16:52.040 Aided Persian restaurants.

01:16:53.380 They staked me.

01:16:54.260 We were able to get lucky with a couple of companies.

01:16:56.160 And then,

01:16:56.660 you know,

01:16:56.840 again,

01:16:57.020 I'm the luckiest guy in the world.

01:16:58.060 I'm living in Rancho Santa Fe,

01:16:59.500 California.

01:17:00.580 And at the time,

01:17:01.680 oil is skyrocketing.

01:17:03.740 Right away,

01:17:04.280 I started investing in oil and gas deals.

01:17:06.660 And then my partner who went into the program with me,

01:17:09.640 unfortunately,

01:17:10.060 he gets the bad luck of being sent to Des Moines,

01:17:12.320 Iowa.

01:17:12.960 Well,

01:17:13.300 the great thing about Des Moines,

01:17:14.800 Iowa is right now,

01:17:16.180 biodiesel and alternative energy is in favor.

01:17:18.800 And he's in the corn capital of the world.

01:17:21.120 So we were able to invest wisely in energy and then hedge wisely in alternative energy.

01:17:27.060 And we got off.

01:17:28.000 We did very,

01:17:28.660 very,

01:17:28.860 very well again.

01:17:30.540 No trouble since 03.

01:17:32.140 Yeah,

01:17:32.460 there's been trouble.

01:17:33.360 Nothing I want to talk about this time.

01:17:35.320 But yes,

01:17:35.720 there's always trouble.

01:17:36.980 The government is constantly coming after me.

01:17:38.820 Constantly.

01:17:39.240 So how do you make money today?

01:17:40.680 Are you fine,

01:17:41.240 right?

01:17:41.340 Right now,

01:17:41.680 you're low key.

01:17:42.140 You're not really doing anything business-wise.

01:17:43.680 nothing that I would want to get into publicly.

01:17:45.640 got it.

01:17:45.980 So just more low key today.

01:17:47.620 So are we going to see more of Sal Romano out there?

01:17:51.660 Is there going to be more stuff about you out there?

01:17:53.520 Are you more or less trying to just keep it low key?

01:17:56.940 And you did this interview just to do this interview.

01:17:58.880 No,

01:17:59.200 absolutely not.

01:18:00.060 I've been asked to do interviews for the last,

01:18:01.820 I don't know,

01:18:02.100 close to 20 years constantly.

01:18:04.120 Everybody that ever heard my story says,

01:18:05.980 when are you going to write a book?

01:18:06.940 When are you going to write a book?

01:18:07.740 Because I'm only giving you a certain amount of everything that I have in the arsenal.

01:18:12.320 And I think right now with the situation that I'm in,

01:18:15.140 it's about controlling the narrative.

01:18:16.880 I don't want stories being written about me or told without me at least having a say in how it's framed.

01:18:22.800 Because I'll only frame the truth.

01:18:24.880 I'm a devoted,

01:18:25.740 devoted,

01:18:26.280 devoted Catholic.

01:18:27.740 I love my faith.

01:18:29.020 I pride myself on being somewhat of a novice theologian.

01:18:32.680 But I,

01:18:33.060 you know,

01:18:33.300 I,

01:18:33.620 my book is basically a correlation of my spirituality and my faith along with my past culmination to where I'm at today in life.

01:18:42.700 So yeah,

01:18:43.340 there's a story to tell.

01:18:44.640 And after many years of contemplation,

01:18:46.900 I believe now's the time to tell it and no better than to launch with you,

01:18:51.140 sir.

01:18:51.600 Well,

01:18:51.820 it's great to have you on here.

01:18:53.700 I am sure this is going to steer the pot with a lot of different questions and comments and people are going to reach out and they're going to want to have you back on to address other questions.

01:19:03.100 And maybe we'll do a part two here since we only had about 90 minutes here together.

01:19:07.560 And I've really enjoyed talking to you.

01:19:10.160 Unique story,

01:19:11.160 different angle.

01:19:12.240 Yeah.

01:19:12.440 It sounds like you were one decision away from having been a professional guy in the financial world for decades and you would have made a lot of money.

01:19:21.980 But that industry kind of kept pulling you in because it sounds like you had a little bit of aspirations and wanted to be a boss.

01:19:26.880 There was something very attractive.

01:19:29.100 And I'm not a hypocrite.

01:19:31.000 I wanted that life.

01:19:32.240 Without a doubt,

01:19:32.800 I wanted that life.

01:19:35.220 Because if I wanted to go legit,

01:19:36.900 I could have easily gotten legit.

01:19:38.340 I had the talent,

01:19:39.320 the work ethic,

01:19:40.060 and the brains.

01:19:40.820 I could have done very well.

01:19:41.740 You had brains.

01:19:41.860 Three times you talked about being at the office at 745 and the way you explained blind pull,

01:19:48.600 the way you explained reverse,

01:19:51.060 that's not something that everybody can explain,

01:19:54.080 which means having started in 1985 with Lehman's for three years,

01:19:57.340 you were with them.

01:19:57.840 It's not like you were there for three or six months cold calling for some other guy.

01:20:00.900 My first week on the job,

01:20:02.500 Lee Iacocca was there leaving Ford trying to borrow,

01:20:06.800 to raise a billion dollars from the company in order to start a company called Chrysler.

01:20:11.180 Yeah.

01:20:11.540 This was my first week on the job.

01:20:13.100 So,

01:20:13.260 yes,

01:20:13.500 I've had the exposure of everything.

01:20:15.120 You met Lee Iacocca?

01:20:16.200 No,

01:20:16.540 I was a baby,

01:20:17.320 but I was on premise when he was there.

01:20:18.780 I mean,

01:20:18.940 he's a,

01:20:19.340 he's a legend.

01:20:20.220 Did you watch Ford versus Ferrari?

01:20:21.500 Yeah,

01:20:21.820 of course.

01:20:22.400 What'd you think about the story in there with what he did with negotiating with Italy and Enzo and all that?

01:20:27.240 Smart.

01:20:27.920 Yeah.

01:20:28.320 Crazy stuff.

01:20:29.000 Anyway,

01:20:29.300 Sal,

01:20:29.520 thanks for coming out.

01:20:30.200 Thanks for being here on Valley Team and I really enjoyed it.

01:20:31.740 My pleasure,

01:20:32.260 Patrick.

01:20:33.220 Take care.

01:20:33.700 Thanks for having me.

01:20:34.240 Anytime.

01:20:34.860 Anytime.

01:20:35.460 Complete different perspective of that life,

01:20:37.260 Sal Romano,

01:20:37.820 how he made his money and what happened to him.

01:20:39.340 By the way,

01:20:39.580 if you enjoyed this interview,

01:20:40.520 give it a thumbs up and subscribe to the channel.

01:20:42.500 I got two other videos I want you to watch.

01:20:44.120 Both podcasts that we recently had on.

01:20:46.500 One is with Sammy DeBogarvano and the other one was with Michael Francis.

01:20:49.240 You're going to enjoy both of them,

01:20:50.220 but click on one of these two.

01:20:51.680 If you enjoyed this topic,

01:20:52.640 I think you'll enjoy one of these two podcasts.

01:20:54.340 Take care,

01:20:54.640 everybody.

01:20:55.000 Bye-bye.

Valuetainment - October 29, 2021

The Mafia's Hidden Money Maker On Wall Street Sal Romano Tells All

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