Valuetainment - The Mindset of Winners： Lessons from Kobe Bryant & Michael Jordan

00:00:00.000 I've been fortunate enough to sit there and hear those conversations on a private plane with MJ, Tiger, Gretzky, Jeter.

00:00:07.720 They are so freaking competitive.

00:00:10.900 That's the one thing they all have in common.

00:00:13.780 What would they say mental disorders they have?

00:00:15.820 They'd have to come up with something new.

00:00:18.380 If Mike's sitting right here and we asked Kobe, what's the definition of success?

00:00:22.700 What would you say their answers would be?

00:00:24.480 Kobe said winning is everything.

00:00:26.140 Talk to Mike.

00:00:26.900 Whatever Kobe would say, Mike would have to one-up him.

00:00:29.180 Why don't most people subscribe to wanting to find out what their capacity looks like and go at the highest level?

00:00:35.080 Because it's just too hard.

00:00:37.340 If it was that easy, everybody would be doing it.

00:00:39.320 You've trained the best of the best in the game of basketball.

00:00:41.820 You said Kobe worked harder, but Jordan worked smarter.

00:00:45.700 What are those signs that he said there's a very distinct difference between this guy and that guy?

00:00:50.100 With Kobe, I saw it very early against Utah when he shot all those air balls.

00:00:54.460 For most individuals, that would have just totally killed their confidence.

00:00:57.560 No, he came back and owned what he did.

00:00:59.940 I'm coming back for more.

00:01:01.180 Were both guys that trusted easily?

00:01:03.440 No, they did not trust easily.

00:01:05.080 I had to work harder than they did.

00:01:06.720 I tell the story about early down in the MJ days, there was no Fitbit.

00:01:10.960 There was none of this information available.

00:01:13.120 Did you ever fire a client?

00:01:14.520 I've returned more money than I've actually kept.

00:01:16.840 I had one individual right in the middle of the game.

00:01:19.440 I told one of my assistants, grab my checkbook.

00:01:21.500 I rolled my check.

00:01:21.980 I said, here, get out.

00:01:22.840 We're in a society now where sleep deprivation is like a sign of success.

00:01:27.360 Is the reward worth it?

00:01:28.960 Winning is everything.

00:01:29.820 So, here's what Kobe Bryant had to say about my guest today.

00:01:37.100 He said, Tim Grover is the master of mental toughness.

00:01:39.860 The book is the blueprint for discovering what you are capable of achieving, getting results

00:01:43.400 you never imagined, reaching the highest level of success, and then going even higher.

00:01:47.980 The late Kobe Bryant.

00:01:49.480 Here's what Barkley had to say.

00:01:50.920 If you compete at anything, sports or business or life, you need this book.

00:01:55.080 No one knows more than Tim Grover about competitive intensity, killer instinct, and crushing the

00:01:59.660 other guy.

00:02:00.360 He is the best at what he does, creating champions.

00:02:04.180 And Michael Jordan called him the asshole.

00:02:07.560 Not an asshole.

00:02:08.720 He called him the asshole, which he took it as a compliment so I can say it to him because

00:02:12.380 he said, that's a compliment.

00:02:14.460 And having said that, he owns a record.

00:02:16.240 He holds a record on by Tim.

00:02:17.760 And I don't know if you're aware of this record or not.

00:02:19.700 You held this record for a couple of years.

00:02:21.440 But just for a couple of years.

00:02:22.760 Just for a couple of years.

00:02:23.520 I'm going to tell you this.

00:02:24.280 You held the record for the most F-bombs ever dropped in an interview.

00:02:27.160 Yes.

00:02:27.540 We counted it.

00:02:28.220 I think the numbers you were counting is like 72, whatever the number was.

00:02:31.640 Your record was broken by Sammy Debo Gravano.

00:02:34.960 He beats you because it was a longer interview.

00:02:37.820 We had only an hour.

00:02:39.220 He had two and a half hours.

00:02:40.400 So if we put the optics together, I think you guys are very close to each other.

00:02:43.440 But it's good to have you on, buddy.

00:02:44.460 Really good to have you on.

00:02:45.260 Thank you so much, Patrick.

00:02:46.400 Thank you.

00:02:46.780 It's an honor again to be back here with you.

00:02:48.460 And I know you were telling me this is your first live interview you're doing for the book launch,

00:02:53.200 which we are very, very excited about.

00:02:55.420 I know you're, you know, I'm a big student of your previous book.

00:02:59.340 Yes.

00:03:00.000 Relentless.

00:03:00.420 Just a fantastic book.

00:03:01.460 We had the entire company read it.

00:03:02.780 This.

00:03:04.100 Complete different direction.

00:03:05.260 Excited to get into it.

00:03:06.020 I got a lot of questions for you.

00:03:07.260 But before we get into the questions, in your mind, give me the difference between the book

00:03:12.120 Relentless and the biggest difference between this book that you wrote that's coming out

00:03:15.760 on May 18th.

00:03:18.520 Relentless was a mindset.

00:03:20.960 It was a mindset.

00:03:21.920 It was just like what I was talking about with the other individuals that I dealt with,

00:03:26.660 how they thought, how they went through different, how they went through different processes

00:03:30.180 to get that end result.

00:03:33.800 Winning is in all of us.

00:03:37.260 We all want to win.

00:03:39.080 But the path people take to get to winning, everybody wants the end result and they want

00:03:46.820 to feel the sugar and the confetti and all that other stuff.

00:03:51.400 But what you have to endure to win, no one wants to talk about.

00:03:55.760 And that's what really winning is about because you spend more time enduring it and being in

00:04:03.340 a place and not in a good place.

00:04:05.540 And I wanted to bring it out and say, hey, no matter what you do in life, where you're

00:04:10.940 at, this is what winning takes.

00:04:15.480 And it's in all of us.

00:04:17.320 It's in all of us.

00:04:18.920 You find wins every single day.

00:04:22.800 And when you find that win every single day, you can get closer to whatever winning means

00:04:28.980 to you.

00:04:29.920 So winning is in all of us.

00:04:31.520 Relentless was more of a mindset.

00:04:33.060 This is about going out and actually achieving that mindset and getting what you want.

00:04:37.520 At for what matters to the person or is it more capacity, meaning, you know, you meet

00:04:44.700 somebody where you say, this guy's got a big upside.

00:04:47.500 I got can really kill it.

00:04:49.260 Oh, my gosh.

00:04:50.920 And then he says, Tim, I just want to be an all star.

00:04:53.440 I'm good with that, man.

00:04:54.340 I don't care to win a championship.

00:04:55.600 I don't care to be on Mount Rushmore.

00:04:57.260 I don't care to be one of the greatest of all.

00:04:59.400 If I never make in the Hall of Fame, I'm going to live a happy life.

00:05:01.640 I'm going to be totally OK with it.

00:05:02.940 So is winning to you the individual's level of success they want to have or is winning

00:05:08.820 to you somebody that goes out there and says, I want to find out what my best version looks

00:05:11.840 like.

00:05:12.100 I want to find out what my capacity looks like.

00:05:14.480 How do you judge it?

00:05:15.560 It's by the capacity.

00:05:17.020 It's always a capacity.

00:05:18.620 You know, if you don't, people, they look at winning and finishing as the same.

00:05:28.160 Those individuals that you're talking about, they're just looking to finish.

00:05:31.540 They're just looking to finish their career.

00:05:33.560 They're like, OK, this is where I got this nice house.

00:05:36.280 I'm finished over here.

00:05:37.220 I made the NBA or made the end of that.

00:05:38.980 That's finishing.

00:05:39.680 And a lot of people to that, they're like, they feel like if they finish, they've won.

00:05:45.300 These individuals, it's a completely different level.

00:05:50.380 So you have individuals that go out and run marathons.

00:05:53.200 You know, if you compete at the highest level and you're a person that just runs marathon,

00:05:59.180 the chances of you winning that marathon are pretty much zero.

00:06:03.860 But you're going to finish that marathon.

00:06:06.000 But being able to finish that marathon puts you in a mindset to win at something else.

00:06:13.560 So there's always what's next.

00:06:15.700 What's next?

00:06:16.460 What's the next thing that's going on?

00:06:18.240 You know, we talk about what Kobe, one of his biggest lines is, you know, don't rest in

00:06:24.000 the middle, rest at the end.

00:06:27.120 Winners rest at the end.

00:06:29.280 When you talk about people that just want to finish, just what you said, they rest in

00:06:34.700 the middle.

00:06:35.640 You know, for the longest time, I was, people asked the question, you know, what's success

00:06:39.740 to you?

00:06:40.060 What's, you know, one of those questions, what's the key to success?

00:06:42.060 Oh, the key to success.

00:06:43.360 And I've heard a million different things, you know, marry the right person, you know,

00:06:46.840 faith, hard work, save money, make money, read books, you know, all this stuff that

00:06:51.540 we hear from a bunch of different people, to me, it was alignment where, you know, your

00:06:58.280 values and principles match the lifestyle you're living.

00:07:02.340 So, and not worrying about what others think about you.

00:07:04.700 But for you, you spent a lot of time around Mike, MJ, and you spent a lot of time around

00:07:08.460 Kobe.

00:07:09.960 You've spent a lot of time on a lot of other guys, you know, Dwayne, Pat Riley, you know,

00:07:14.960 whether it's Barkley, you've spent a lot of time around these guys.

00:07:17.260 But if Mike's sitting right here and we asked Kobe, okay, what's the definition of success

00:07:23.140 to those two guys?

00:07:24.060 What would you say their answers would be?

00:07:26.060 Well, in the book, Kobe said, he said, winning is everything.

00:07:29.960 It's everything.

00:07:32.000 All right.

00:07:33.240 And you sit here and if you talk to Mike, whatever Kobe would say, Mike would have to

00:07:38.680 one-up him.

00:07:40.240 Because there's still, the competition never stops.

00:07:43.280 It's always about what's next.

00:07:45.680 What can I, what can I win more at?

00:07:48.280 You know, both those individuals, you know, obviously Kobe's not with us anymore, but both

00:07:53.040 those individuals, the competition and the desire and the feeling of winning, even though

00:08:01.440 they were done with playing, manifested into something else.

00:08:06.880 You know, MJ, the most successful sneaker brand out there.

00:08:11.300 All right.

00:08:12.840 Owning a team, tequila business, in the sports gambling business.

00:08:19.540 He's in all those things.

00:08:21.880 He's in all those things.

00:08:24.320 All right.

00:08:24.580 So the competition never stops.

00:08:26.480 With Kobe, it was like, I'm going to win an Oscar.

00:08:29.260 Go out and win an Oscar.

00:08:30.740 Writing children's, writing children's book.

00:08:32.840 He literally, his goal, his plan was to take over Hollywood.

00:08:38.420 He was like, I owned L.A. on the basketball court, and now I want to own L.A.

00:08:47.980 He wanted to take, that was his winning thing.

00:08:50.160 Take the basketball out of it.

00:08:52.140 Everyone knows I own L.A. on the basketball court.

00:08:56.040 And we talked about this.

00:08:57.220 He goes, own L.A.

00:09:04.080 Own L.A.

00:09:05.440 And if you look at the paths he was going through, that's what he, that's what he was doing.

00:09:12.980 That's what he was, that was his, that was his next definition of winning.

00:09:18.740 I wouldn't bet against the guy.

00:09:20.180 No.

00:09:20.320 I would not bet against the guy.

00:09:21.340 We had him over at the event, and I gave him a couple gifts.

00:09:25.380 I gave him a script.

00:09:26.320 I gave him a script, I think, by Star Wars, and it was signed.

00:09:29.340 It was the original script.

00:09:30.480 And, you know, he was fascinated about that.

00:09:32.940 Like, we were having a conversation in the back, all he was talking about was storytelling,

00:09:36.500 storytelling, storytelling, storytelling.

00:09:38.060 It was like an obsession that he had.

00:09:39.720 So, here's a different question for you.

00:09:41.380 So, the feeling of winning, obviously, is a million times better than you think it's

00:09:47.900 going to feel like.

00:09:48.520 Yes.

00:09:48.860 It's just a ridiculous feeling that you go there.

00:09:51.920 Movies do very well because in the storyline, somebody ends up winning.

00:09:56.220 And the audience comes and says, oh my gosh, what a great underdog story.

00:09:59.280 I love this movie, Pursuit of Happiness.

00:10:01.760 I love watching, you know, Invincible.

00:10:04.040 The guy ends up playing for, you know, the Jets, a regular bartender.

00:10:07.000 I love watching this guy winning.

00:10:09.200 I love watching all these different things.

00:10:11.900 I think he played for the Eagles.

00:10:13.840 Eagles.

00:10:14.340 You're right.

00:10:14.560 Philadelphia.

00:10:15.020 That's right.

00:10:15.340 I said Jets.

00:10:15.980 The story's about the city of Philadelphia.

00:10:17.400 You're right.

00:10:17.940 So, you see all these different movies do well because we see somebody winning.

00:10:22.300 Right.

00:10:22.480 We see somebody winning.

00:10:23.200 Why don't most people subscribe to wanting to find out what their capacity looks like

00:10:29.500 and go at the highest level?

00:10:31.140 They enjoy the story, but why don't they want to commit to it?

00:10:34.000 Because they'd rather participate.

00:10:36.320 Why don't they want to just participate?

00:10:38.640 They want to participate in somebody else's win because that's where their euphoria comes

00:10:45.320 from because they want to see what, they know what winning feels like, but what it takes

00:10:52.020 to go down that unforgiving race to winning, they don't want to do because it's just too

00:11:01.620 hard.

00:11:03.620 So, they'd rather stay in the middle.

00:11:05.940 They'd rather stay because that's where the majority of the comfort is.

00:11:10.200 It's in the middle.

00:11:12.500 Everybody wants to be seen until it's time to be seen.

00:11:17.280 Winning, in order to win, you have to be seen.

00:11:22.000 And once you become, and once everyone can see you, you become a target.

00:11:27.200 You become a target.

00:11:28.880 So, everybody, everyone has their perception of winning as this glorious thing.

00:11:35.780 And it is.

00:11:37.140 And it is.

00:11:37.820 But the book talks about everything that goes along that path and what winning will bring

00:11:45.280 you.

00:11:45.700 And it's not always what you anticipate to be.

00:11:50.460 You can look at yourself.

00:11:51.600 You can look at myself.

00:11:52.440 You can look at any successful person.

00:11:56.000 Any person that's going for more wins.

00:11:59.280 That's going for their full potential.

00:12:01.140 And they sit back and you have times and you're just like, why am I doing this?

00:12:11.340 Why am I doing this?

00:12:13.880 And then it may hit you for a split second.

00:12:17.280 But then you become, I know exactly why I'm doing this.

00:12:21.000 Those other people, when they say, why am I doing this?

00:12:25.720 That why wins.

00:12:28.280 With the people that continue to win, that why doesn't exist.

00:12:32.280 Like, I know why I'm doing this.

00:12:34.140 So, do you think those who say, well, you know, I don't know if it's something worth

00:12:37.220 me paying the price.

00:12:38.160 Is it the fear of the criticism?

00:12:39.740 Do they know that they're going to get that kind of criticism?

00:12:41.880 Or they don't know that.

00:12:42.880 It's just, I don't think it's worth me paying the price to get this.

00:12:45.900 Because what if it doesn't work out?

00:12:47.300 And what if I can't do it?

00:12:48.260 Is it a belief thing?

00:12:49.860 Is it they don't have the level of obsession?

00:12:52.040 Is it they don't have the chip?

00:12:53.300 Is it they don't have the point to want to prove to somebody?

00:12:56.400 What would you point it out?

00:12:57.920 It's all of the above.

00:12:58.680 Okay, got it.

00:12:59.620 It's all of the above.

00:13:00.300 See, what everybody's trying to figure out, what's the, you get this question all the

00:13:04.820 time.

00:13:05.060 I get this all.

00:13:05.720 What's the one thing?

00:13:08.080 Boy, I wish it was that simple.

00:13:11.180 That's the one thing.

00:13:12.060 So, everybody, what's the one thing to success?

00:13:14.860 What's the one thing to your success?

00:13:16.480 What's the one thing to making it?

00:13:18.140 What's the one thing to winning?

00:13:19.340 Man, if it was that easy, everybody would be doing it.

00:13:23.660 You know, people, they have, everyone has, and this drives me crazy.

00:13:29.800 This drives me, this drives me absolutely crazy.

00:13:32.420 And I was told by another individual that the one thing I have to do in my, in my teachings

00:13:39.640 is I have to, I have to do steps.

00:13:43.080 I have to do steps.

00:13:44.180 I have to give people five steps, 10 steps, so forth.

00:13:47.680 And I'm not a step person.

00:13:50.400 I'm just not.

00:13:51.220 It's not something that's worked for me.

00:13:52.660 It's not something that's worked for the individuals.

00:13:54.900 I know it simplifies things and helps people out.

00:13:57.380 But when you look at the road to winning, people look at you and they're like, you're a success.

00:14:08.200 All right.

00:14:09.040 But your road has so many more steps.

00:14:13.480 Those steps are infinite.

00:14:16.060 Sometimes you get to see them.

00:14:18.060 Sometimes you don't.

00:14:20.400 Sometimes they're there.

00:14:23.600 Other times they're wobbly.

00:14:25.000 And you don't know if that next step is going to be there, but you have enough belief in

00:14:32.060 yourself to say, I know it's there.

00:14:35.120 I'm going to take, I'm going to take that.

00:14:36.980 I'm going to take that step.

00:14:38.440 I may miss the step.

00:14:39.760 I may fall.

00:14:40.640 I may get, I may get scraped.

00:14:42.580 That step may go into quicksand, but I know there's another step.

00:14:46.780 I know it.

00:14:47.460 I believe inside me that there's another step that I have to take, that somebody else isn't

00:14:52.920 making me take.

00:14:54.060 And you continue to take those, those steps are infinite.

00:14:57.960 Winning is infinite.

00:14:59.320 Those steps are infinite.

00:15:01.200 And you're deaf.

00:15:01.980 People don't want to continue to take those steps.

00:15:04.460 I don't care what kind of shape an individual is in.

00:15:06.960 The greatest athletes, all right, as much training as they ever do, if you've ever had to run

00:15:12.600 up a flight of steps, it's hard.

00:15:16.040 It's extreme.

00:15:17.020 It's extremely difficult.

00:15:18.960 All right.

00:15:19.280 So when people say there's, there's the, there's 10 easy steps or, you know, there's

00:15:23.540 five steps of greatness or this, the, those steps to me are, their steps to me are infinite.

00:15:29.020 And even when you put that plan out there, people aren't willing to even take those five

00:15:32.740 steps.

00:15:34.020 That's a good point.

00:15:34.900 Tim, reading.

00:15:36.860 So intuition for you, you, you've trained the best of the best in the game of basketball.

00:15:41.740 How, what signs do you get?

00:15:44.340 I guess the question for me would be even prior to Michael become Michael or Kobe becoming

00:15:48.400 Michael or, you know, Kobe becoming Kobe.

00:15:50.240 When you're training somebody, what signs does somebody give you to say, this guy is potentially

00:15:58.400 a guy that could be a guy at that level.

00:16:01.160 And at that level, I mean, these guys have made it at the highest level of a game.

00:16:04.680 It's not like they're not the, they're the cream of the crop.

00:16:07.140 Yeah.

00:16:07.320 So you're talking about whoever is in the NBA today, they're the, they're, they're a Hollywood

00:16:11.960 celebrity on the bat, you know, high school campus.

00:16:14.480 Everyone on college campus knows them.

00:16:16.120 Then you go into the NBA like, oh shit, I'm a bench warmer.

00:16:18.920 I'm coming up and it's all started and it's this, then it's that.

00:16:21.920 What, what signs do you see where you say, this guy's different.

00:16:26.780 There's something about this guy that's different.

00:16:27.920 There's something about her that's different.

00:16:29.140 What are those signs that you see that he said, there's a very distinct difference between

00:16:32.980 this guy and that guy.

00:16:34.300 He's just as talented.

00:16:35.760 She's just as talented, but there's something very weird and different about his personality.

00:16:39.600 What are some of those things?

00:16:41.080 He just, if you just pay attention to the details, you pay attention to the details, you

00:16:48.140 could, those distinguish, those distinctions are easy to, are easy to see.

00:16:53.640 All right.

00:16:54.280 Everybody talks about working, working hard, showing up early, showing up late, doing all.

00:17:00.500 Everybody can do that.

00:17:02.280 Everybody can do that.

00:17:03.660 It's the mannerisms of the way they carry themselves.

00:17:06.600 It's the way they compete.

00:17:08.280 It's the way they listen.

00:17:09.600 It's the way they absorb information, how coachable they are.

00:17:14.100 The one thing, all my athletes in business, in sports, the best of the best are so coachable.

00:17:24.880 They listen.

00:17:26.360 They listen.

00:17:27.340 They absorb the information.

00:17:28.940 They pay attention.

00:17:30.160 They're there.

00:17:30.940 They're willing, they want that information and they know the difference between false

00:17:36.120 information and information that can actually work for them.

00:17:40.460 You know, Kobe had a, with the first interview they did with Kobe, when they said, oh, you

00:17:45.760 hired Tim Grover.

00:17:47.420 You hired MJ guy.

00:17:48.540 You know, what do you think about him?

00:17:51.120 He goes, he ain't done shit for me yet.

00:17:52.920 I don't know.

00:17:53.400 He was like, yeah, he did great things for MJ and he's done great things for other things.

00:18:00.500 He ain't done nothing for me.

00:18:01.480 I don't know.

00:18:03.000 Setting the tone.

00:18:04.120 Setting the tone.

00:18:04.620 Right there.

00:18:06.220 How did you process that when you heard that?

00:18:08.260 Oh, I just, I wouldn't expect anything else.

00:18:11.040 I didn't do anything for him.

00:18:12.180 Yeah.

00:18:12.720 I didn't do anything.

00:18:13.560 And too many people look at the history of what they've done in the past.

00:18:16.280 They look at their past wins, their past, their past successes.

00:18:19.940 These individuals, they've always want, they, you could.

00:18:23.400 When you look at that competitive person, you can always see.

00:18:26.380 With Kobe, I saw it very early when the, in the playoffs in, against Utah, when he shot

00:18:33.840 all those air balls at that, you know, he was what, 17 and always came in the league at

00:18:38.300 17.

00:18:38.620 So he was like 18 or 19 when he did that.

00:18:40.700 Right.

00:18:41.840 For most individuals, that would have just totally killed their confidence.

00:18:46.240 How's he came?

00:18:46.840 How did he come back?

00:18:47.820 How did he handle it?

00:18:48.660 Did he run from the adversity?

00:18:50.000 Did he run from the media?

00:18:51.860 What did he do?

00:18:52.500 No, he came back and owned what he did and says, I'm coming back.

00:18:57.480 I'm coming back for more.

00:18:58.720 I'm coming back for more.

00:19:00.140 For MJ, it was just never forgetting that he got cut from the varsity team when he tried

00:19:06.360 out as a sophomore.

00:19:07.640 And there's another story that, you know, people don't know.

00:19:11.280 Few people know this.

00:19:12.440 So he goes, everyone told him, don't go to North Carolina.

00:19:14.820 So he says, no, I'm going, cause you're never going to play.

00:19:18.960 You're not going to be, you're going to be on the, you're going to be on the bench.

00:19:21.900 So he goes to North Carolina and I'm pretty sure, um, Buzz Peterson was the number one ranked

00:19:32.780 player in high school that year.

00:19:34.760 And he also went to North Carolina.

00:19:37.440 So Dean Smith comes in and they, he makes them roommates and he, and Dean, Dean was like,

00:19:43.540 he goes, Michael, I want you to meet, uh, I want you to meet, uh, Buzz Peterson.

00:19:48.000 Buzz Peterson is the number one ranked player.

00:19:52.340 Last year in high school is the number one recruit.

00:19:55.680 And Michael, first thing goes to Dean, he goes, he ain't never played me.

00:19:58.920 How can he be number one?

00:19:59.960 Now, let me ask you, when Dean did that, did Dean know Jordan's wiring or he did not?

00:20:03.760 Yeah, he did.

00:20:04.260 Oh, so he did already.

00:20:05.560 So Dean knew how to poke.

00:20:07.160 Yes.

00:20:07.700 Okay.

00:20:08.100 That's it.

00:20:08.580 And he's just, just trying to, just trying to see because he wanted to say, okay, I know

00:20:14.180 what this kid has now, how I just laid something out for him.

00:20:19.260 So first day of practice, let's see where he, or let's see where he, let's see where

00:20:25.740 he takes it.

00:20:26.800 All right.

00:20:27.360 And then Michael's response.

00:20:29.080 How can he, he ain't never played me.

00:20:30.920 How can he be, how can he be number one?

00:20:33.540 And now people say things now, are they actually going to do it?

00:20:38.100 The one thing all these individuals had after each championship, while everybody was celebrating,

00:20:45.320 they would come and give me a hug and say, what's next?

00:20:54.220 What's next?

00:20:57.660 Because they're like, you can't, we can't come back the same.

00:21:01.500 If we come back the same, winning isn't going to, winning is no longer going to greet us.

00:21:08.460 Because, you know, I have a thing in the, in the book where the bus, the bus takes you

00:21:15.320 to the arena.

00:21:17.280 Like it has, it says where it's going.

00:21:21.960 You get on that bus, you win the championship.

00:21:25.840 And then when you get back on that same bus, after you've won the championship, the sign

00:21:31.260 has changed.

00:21:31.900 It doesn't say the destination to the hotel.

00:21:35.060 It says this bus ride is back to hell.

00:21:38.320 Because if you're not willing to take that ride, this will be your last win.

00:21:43.360 You know, every single successful person, every single one that you, that you've had,

00:21:47.920 every single win, the next one's a little bit more difficult.

00:21:52.380 It's a little bit harder to get.

00:21:54.040 You become more smarter.

00:21:55.400 You become more educated.

00:21:56.640 You know, you know more, but you can't come back.

00:21:59.560 You cannot come back the same individual, especially when you're trying to repeat at something

00:22:06.600 that you've already won at.

00:22:09.900 So to win the first Oscar, to win that second, what is it?

00:22:13.540 Anthony Hopkins, it was 85.

00:22:16.340 85.

00:22:17.120 I don't know when he won the one before that.

00:22:19.600 Beast of a guy.

00:22:20.440 Unbelievable.

00:22:21.680 Unbelievable.

00:22:23.060 But you, those things are just, they're so, and those are the things you look for in

00:22:27.000 individuals.

00:22:27.520 It's just like, you know, what can, what can, what can I see in game six after.

00:22:35.120 Jazz?

00:22:35.900 No, this was, this was with Kobe game six.

00:22:39.360 They lost to Boston.

00:22:41.940 All right.

00:22:42.480 And they're having, he's had, they're having dinner.

00:22:45.040 And, you know, I, I, I've never worked for the organization.

00:22:47.460 So there's certain things that I, I have to say, I had to stay away from.

00:22:51.940 So he's sitting there and he's having dinners with, with the coaches and the team.

00:22:56.080 And then he's had different individuals.

00:22:57.860 And then, you know, I get a text to say, come on down.

00:23:00.560 And he's sitting down.

00:23:01.820 Kobe and I were having this conversation.

00:23:03.840 And this is, this is already, you know, remember he's already won three championships.

00:23:07.260 So this was, this was going, this was going for number, this was going for number four.

00:23:12.100 And he's gone and he sits there and he has this conversation with me.

00:23:15.020 And he goes, man, I hit him with everything but the kitchen sink.

00:23:18.500 And I looked at him, I said, what in the hell are you saving the sink for?

00:23:25.680 And he just gave me that mama glare.

00:23:28.820 I said, how many times do people go through in life?

00:23:36.200 What a thing to say back to the guy.

00:23:38.320 Why you hope, that's crazy to say that.

00:23:40.740 Did he, did his reaction to you get pissed at you or was his reaction like you're right?

00:23:45.880 What's his reaction?

00:23:46.740 He didn't have to say a word.

00:23:48.520 Okay.

00:23:48.980 He didn't have to say.

00:23:49.680 Got it.

00:23:49.860 We were so in tuned.

00:23:51.420 He didn't have to say a word.

00:23:52.520 Got it.

00:23:52.880 The minute I saw that look, he knew exactly.

00:23:56.600 He knew exactly.

00:23:56.880 Was he a what do you think guy?

00:23:58.360 Was he a what do you think guy or no?

00:24:00.380 Meaning like if something's happened to the game, hey, Tim, what do you think about the game I played today?

00:24:05.680 No, so no.

00:24:06.700 So he would want the information.

00:24:08.460 But the thing is, we would only discuss things that I saw that could have been done better.

00:24:17.900 But these guys are so in tune to what they do.

00:24:21.060 Before you even point out, they're already like, I already know.

00:24:24.400 I already know.

00:24:25.200 Because their obligation to themselves is so much greater than anybody else's obligation to them.

00:24:30.320 And they understand the difference between criticism and feedback.

00:24:33.840 They know the difference between the two.

00:24:37.200 And basically, the difference between the two is how you hear it.

00:24:39.880 Is it the level of sensitivity or a level of – so how much of it is – because sometimes you give feedback to a guy.

00:24:48.220 They're too sensitive.

00:24:48.880 Oh, my gosh.

00:24:49.520 You know, you're right.

00:24:50.100 I did this.

00:24:51.100 Is it that or is it – then there's certain people you give the feedback to.

00:24:54.780 They're like, why would you say something?

00:24:56.320 I'm like, no, it's not.

00:24:56.860 It's not true.

00:24:57.300 I don't agree with you.

00:24:58.680 Or is it also the fact that the person has to 100% be a proven guy like you who knows what they're doing to take the feedback from them?

00:25:05.720 I mean, Kobe.

00:25:07.080 I'm sure he didn't take feedback from a lot of different people.

00:25:08.760 No, you can't take feedback from everyone.

00:25:10.740 You just can't.

00:25:11.580 Very small circle of people giving the feedback.

00:25:13.040 Very small circle of people and very small people who have actually delivered results.

00:25:18.800 They have actually delivered results.

00:25:21.000 Were both guys that trusted easily or no?

00:25:24.280 No.

00:25:24.940 Neither one of them?

00:25:25.740 No, none of them trusted.

00:25:26.860 They did not trust easily.

00:25:29.800 They did not trust easily.

00:25:31.400 All right.

00:25:31.600 You had to earn their trust every single day.

00:25:34.240 You know, people always say, hey, they say, you got to respect me.

00:25:38.440 Well, I had to give them something to respect every single day.

00:25:41.260 I had to work harder than they did.

00:25:44.180 I had to work harder than they did.

00:25:46.120 You know, I tell the story about early down in the MJ days of how I won and how I wanted to separate myself.

00:25:54.420 When I first started with MJ, there was no Fitbit.

00:25:57.160 There was none of this information available.

00:26:00.880 So how could I do something that I knew was right that would bring me closer to winning, that would bring me closer to him to say, hey, I'm paying attention to the details.

00:26:12.600 So I would go to the games.

00:26:14.740 All right.

00:26:15.220 And this is years ago.

00:26:16.680 And I don't even know how many people in this audience are going to remember this.

00:26:20.320 But there used to be a recording machine called a Betamax or a VHS machine where you actually had to put a tape in and it would record.

00:26:27.800 So I would record all the games.

00:26:30.920 All right.

00:26:31.360 Because when I'm at the game, I don't have time.

00:26:33.580 I'm trying to watch what I'm seeing.

00:26:35.980 So the games would finish.

00:26:38.220 You know, by the time we got out of the locker room, it would be 10, 30, 11 o'clock.

00:26:41.920 Sometimes we'd go out and get a bite to eat.

00:26:43.460 So I get home about 12, 12, 30.

00:26:45.200 I have to rewatch the game because the workout next morning is either at 5 a.m., 6 a.m., or 7 a.m.

00:26:51.220 All right.

00:26:51.680 I have to rewatch the game because I have to count his steps.

00:26:55.960 I have to count his steps.

00:27:00.020 Not only just count his steps.

00:27:01.460 I got to know how many times he went right, how many times he went left, when he went backward.

00:27:04.800 Did he land on left?

00:27:05.340 And how are you using that?

00:27:06.480 How are you using that?

00:27:07.740 How is that intel giving you?

00:27:10.140 To plan the next workout.

00:27:11.820 So I'm like, okay, so here it is.

00:27:13.420 When people go work out and they think about training, they're like, okay, I'm going to do 10 reps on one side and 10 reps on the other side.

00:27:21.180 All right.

00:27:21.600 Well, if during that game, he's going one way more often than he's going the other, I can't work out the legs the same.

00:27:31.100 I can't work out the body the same.

00:27:32.300 You've got to be kidding me.

00:27:33.000 You can't work out the same.

00:27:33.980 That's crazy.

00:27:34.620 You can't.

00:27:35.860 And I'm doing this, and people were looking at me crazy.

00:27:38.080 Well, why does he have a 15-pound dumbbell in one hand and a 30-pound dumbbell in the other hand?

00:27:43.500 Or why does he have a basketball in one hand and he has a 40-pound dumbbell?

00:27:48.560 And people were just like, what are you doing?

00:27:52.000 What are you doing over here?

00:27:53.840 And I'm like, this side of the body does not need the resistance that this side of the body does.

00:28:01.880 Some days they may be equal.

00:28:03.320 Other days they may be different.

00:28:05.120 One day we may all say, listen, we're only going to work this half of the body out.

00:28:09.720 We're not even doing this half.

00:28:10.980 This half is designated for recovery.

00:28:14.100 This half is designated for a workout.

00:28:17.620 All right.

00:28:18.240 And those were the details that I paid attention to.

00:28:21.360 And that's how I got when I spoke, they paid attention.

00:28:26.220 They paid attention to me.

00:28:28.260 Winning doesn't know.

00:28:28.980 Winning didn't know my name.

00:28:30.020 Winning doesn't know who in the hell you are.

00:28:32.940 You know?

00:28:33.700 Winning keeps its hands in its pocket.

00:28:35.540 It's going to keep its hands in its pocket.

00:28:37.320 You know why?

00:28:37.700 Because it doesn't want to point to anybody who isn't worthy.

00:28:43.460 Tim, have you watched the Tigers documentary?

00:28:46.200 I have not seen it yet.

00:28:47.560 I have not seen it.

00:28:48.340 So I think you'll get a kick out of it if you watch a documentary.

00:28:50.740 So I watched the documentary and I'm sitting there saying, wow.

00:28:54.940 You know, the role his father played in Tiger's life.

00:29:00.400 I don't know if Tiger is Tiger without the father.

00:29:03.140 You sit there and you think about something from two years old.

00:29:05.480 So what if your dad's like, if Tiger's my kid, would Tiger be Tiger because of golf?

00:29:10.460 Probably not.

00:29:10.960 I'm not a golf guy.

00:29:11.800 So you sit there and you think about some of these guys that get at the level that they get.

00:29:15.720 You know, how the mom pushed.

00:29:17.120 You know, people think dad was a disciplinarian.

00:29:19.580 Tiger's mom was a disciplined one.

00:29:21.080 Dad was a little bit more easygoing.

00:29:23.400 You think about Michael, the story with his dad, where the one part in the last dance,

00:29:27.720 he says, you know, his dad's like, oh, you know, why don't you just go out there and do what you're doing?

00:29:31.540 You know, I'm going to go here with your brother.

00:29:33.560 And his dad was kind of challenging him, playing some mind games with him.

00:29:37.020 And he talked about it in the last dance, right?

00:29:38.560 And Michael said, when you're going through it, it's very difficult.

00:29:42.500 It's torture because you don't know what's really happening to you when someone's challenging you.

00:29:47.160 I don't know the story about Kobe who it was.

00:29:49.420 Obviously, his father played, and I have that idea, but I don't know who, you know, the role dad played.

00:29:57.560 In a mathematical formula, you'll hear, you know, Pythagorean theorem.

00:30:02.380 If you take this and you take this and you take this equals this, right?

00:30:05.140 If you want to make a bomb or if you want to make an explosive, you're in a military, you're a Navy SEAL.

00:30:09.620 If you take this, you combine it with this, you combine it with this.

00:30:11.700 It equals an explosive product that you're producing, right?

00:30:14.740 If you want to make a milkshake, you know, you take this, you combine this.

00:30:17.800 Everything has a recipe.

00:30:19.180 There's a recipe to the madness, specifically to the madness, not all the other stuff.

00:30:24.320 If you were to take the recipe of a guy like a tiger or a Kobe or a Jordan, I'm specifically talking about those who are not one of the best.

00:30:35.380 I'm talking about the goatly we're talking about.

00:30:38.780 Is there a weird family member that psychologically messed with you a little bit to challenge you?

00:30:48.120 Is there a massive setback in life with a ton of pain?

00:30:52.200 Is it someone you love so much that you want to make proud?

00:30:56.340 Is it a massive public humiliation, you know, where somebody embarrassed you?

00:31:00.440 Is it the DNA of the individual because the same four kids could be from the same family, but only one of them ends up becoming?

00:31:06.780 You have the same pretty much structure.

00:31:08.880 How do you not come out of it in all four?

00:31:10.740 What would you say from your experience?

00:31:12.580 And I don't even know if you have the answer to this, but what would you say from experiences, the 1% of the 1% that people read about, people write about, people watch documentaries about, what separates those guys?

00:31:23.140 Everything that you mentioned, everything that you mentioned.

00:31:25.600 Obviously, listen, you're not going to be a great, if you don't have the genetics to be a great athlete, no matter how much training you do, you're just never going to be, you're never going to be able to reach that level.

00:31:38.900 All right?

00:31:39.760 That's, that has a thing.

00:31:41.700 That, that, that pays an important, that pays an important role, picking the, picking the rights, picking the right sport.

00:31:47.960 You have to, there's always been an individual that's held you accountable when you're young.

00:31:53.480 It could be a parent, it could be somebody that's like, really, doesn't let you, doesn't let you get away with things that, that put, that pushes you, that forces you to do things.

00:32:03.000 You look at the Williams sisters from tennis, they're, you know.

00:32:05.680 No question.

00:32:06.300 Yeah.

00:32:06.600 Yeah.

00:32:06.860 There's, there's all, all, there's always that, there's always that individual.

00:32:11.180 Yes, you've gone through some adversity.

00:32:13.380 There's something there that you just, that you, that you, that you remember and you just like, that becomes your, that's, that's your fuel.

00:32:21.460 That's like something that you don't need anybody else to light that fire.

00:32:26.120 That's, that's what, that's what you're, that's what you're made of.

00:32:29.020 And how you handle that, because a lot of individuals, when they go through that, when they go through that challenge, they go through that disappointment, other people make it too easy for them.

00:32:41.440 You know, because our job as parents, our job as individuals, it is the comfort.

00:32:46.360 It, it, it, it is the comfort, all right?

00:32:50.580 In order to see winning in all its glory, it wants to see you suffer.

00:32:56.820 It wants to know what you're made of.

00:32:58.740 It, it, it, it, it needs, it needs to, it needs to know that because think about all your wins.

00:33:09.780 You get to visit them briefly.

00:33:12.940 I know individuals that have won championships 12 years ago that are still celebrating those championships.

00:33:18.460 All right, you look at your value attainment numbers, or you look at your followers, you look at this, you know, I remember when, you know, you hit your, how many years ago was it when you hit the million?

00:33:31.520 I remember the whole, the plaque.

00:33:33.300 Two years ago, two years ago when we hit a million.

00:33:35.540 Okay.

00:33:35.820 Two years ago when we hit a million.

00:33:36.620 All right.

00:33:37.300 Where are you at now?

00:33:38.320 Three million.

00:33:41.960 Exactly.

00:33:42.280 How brief was that?

00:33:44.940 You're like, okay, great.

00:33:45.740 I got to a million.

00:33:46.480 I got my plaque.

00:33:47.280 You did your little video.

00:33:48.360 You did your, you did, you did your thing.

00:33:50.980 Now you're like, was there a big celebration at two million?

00:33:55.400 So is, is that it?

00:33:56.540 No, it was not.

00:33:57.360 We don't even remember celebrating two million.

00:33:58.860 We're not even going to celebrate.

00:34:00.240 So, but, but is it, is it that?

00:34:03.220 Like there's a, there's a story by Patty McCord who was the former chief human resource officer for Netflix.

00:34:08.420 She worked with Reed Hastings for 14 years.

00:34:09.980 She says, she says, one day we had a meeting.

00:34:13.160 Our CFO brought everybody into the room and he brings Reed in and says, Hey guys, guess what?

00:34:18.300 What's that?

00:34:19.040 We just crossed 5 million subscribers at Netflix.

00:34:24.680 And Reed's like, no way.

00:34:26.100 Yes.

00:34:27.020 He says, okay, awesome.

00:34:29.300 And we're going to celebrate.

00:34:30.140 This is now I'm going to go out there and get to 10 million.

00:34:32.260 Everybody else was like, no, but we got to celebrate.

00:34:33.940 Now that's great.

00:34:34.640 Awesome.

00:34:35.000 I'm going back to 10 million.

00:34:36.280 The stories.

00:34:36.900 Do, is it, you know, is it a level of, I guess, I guess what I'm trying to get to is.

00:34:44.680 Okay.

00:34:45.060 Question came the other day about Trevor Lawrence being picked up as number one.

00:34:48.180 And he says, you know, whether I do this life is my life is not just the NFL.

00:34:51.760 You know, my life's big.

00:34:52.640 I don't, I'm sure you follow the storyline.

00:34:54.180 You know, my life's not bigger than the NFL.

00:34:55.600 And then he said, well, he's not Brady.

00:34:57.760 Brady would never say that.

00:34:58.920 Right.

00:34:59.300 Okay.

00:34:59.700 Great.

00:35:00.580 And then guys came back and says, I don't care if he said that or not.

00:35:03.180 He's still going to kill everybody.

00:35:04.700 Look at Eli Manning.

00:35:05.540 He came out and he still won two championships.

00:35:07.220 Right.

00:35:07.800 And then, you know, look at Wayne Gretzky.

00:35:09.680 Wayne Gretzky wasn't a guy that came up.

00:35:11.060 Wayne Gretzky was just a master of his craft.

00:35:13.060 And he just went up there and was a phenom.

00:35:15.700 And he put up stats that's beyond anybody else has done in any sport.

00:35:19.660 No one's even close.

00:35:20.620 If you look at baseball, football, basketball, no one comes close to Gretzky's separation.

00:35:24.380 So, is there a lot of similarities between the great ones all together?

00:35:31.540 Or could somebody just be like, no, I'm just going to come and do the job and go out there.

00:35:35.740 And it's cool.

00:35:36.360 You know, I'm going to work hard.

00:35:37.560 I'm going to do my part.

00:35:38.800 But I'm going to make it look easy.

00:35:40.280 And I don't have to be like Mike.

00:35:41.560 I don't have to be like Tiger.

00:35:42.640 I don't have to be like the Williams.

00:35:44.020 I don't have to be like these guys.

00:35:45.420 I'm just going to come and win.

00:35:46.800 And if we don't win a championship this year, it's cool.

00:35:48.600 We'll do it again next year.

00:35:49.420 But if we don't win, it's okay.

00:35:51.760 Do you buy into what they're saying about Lawrence?

00:35:54.000 Or do you say no?

00:35:54.840 To be a Brady, you have to be a psychopath, competitor, obsessive to want to kill the other guy.

00:35:59.480 I don't want to talk about people I don't know.

00:36:01.760 I don't have a relationship with and that I haven't studied.

00:36:06.300 But if you look at all the individuals that you've named, if you were to put them all in the same room,

00:36:14.100 if you were to have them interview here all in the same room,

00:36:16.760 and you had a way to make their voices sound exactly the same,

00:36:23.740 so you didn't know who was talking,

00:36:26.560 they would tell you the exact same thing.

00:36:31.420 I couldn't tell if I was talking to MJ.

00:36:33.880 I couldn't tell if I was talking to Kobe.

00:36:37.100 I couldn't tell if I was talking to Wade.

00:36:39.500 Whenever you listen to Brady, I can't.

00:36:41.600 There's things they say to the media, and there's things they say among themselves.

00:36:48.520 And I've been fortunate enough to be blessed to be in those conversations.

00:36:52.140 That's the conversation.

00:36:53.380 To sit there and hear those conversations on a private plane with MJ, Tiger, Gretzky, Jeter.

00:37:04.400 To sit there and then have them sitting together and just sit back and just listen.

00:37:09.940 Cameras off.

00:37:10.880 They're just talking.

00:37:11.320 Cameras off.

00:37:11.660 They're just.

00:37:12.300 Oh, my gosh.

00:37:12.920 And, you know, they're not talking.

00:37:15.200 They are so freaking competitive.

00:37:22.080 It's unbelievable.

00:37:23.540 And like I said, if you monotone everybody,

00:37:25.480 the brain patterns and the way they do things,

00:37:29.240 the way they pay attention to details,

00:37:31.020 the way they relax,

00:37:31.980 the way they execute,

00:37:33.460 the way they focus,

00:37:35.320 it's across the board.

00:37:38.720 That's the one thing they all have in common.

00:37:43.660 If a psychologist or a psychiatrist was sitting in a room with all those guys,

00:37:48.840 they would, what would they say mental disorders they have?

00:37:51.480 They would call them what?

00:37:53.320 Sociopath?

00:37:53.640 They would, you have a, you know.

00:37:55.580 Every single one.

00:37:58.040 They'd actually have to come up with something new.

00:38:01.820 They would actually have to come.

00:38:03.840 They would be just like, you know,

00:38:05.140 they're coming up with everything.

00:38:07.060 There's a disorder for everything.

00:38:08.900 They'd have to come up with something new.

00:38:10.780 Because the first thing they would say,

00:38:12.680 these people are different.

00:38:16.980 Yes.

00:38:17.440 And you know what different does?

00:38:18.920 Different scares people.

00:38:20.000 Different scares people.

00:38:24.520 That's why everybody tries to fit in.

00:38:27.240 All right.

00:38:27.540 Winning requires you to be different.

00:38:29.520 These individuals are different in the way they do things.

00:38:34.940 I want to read a story from the book.

00:38:37.800 It's a pretty crazy story you got here in the book.

00:38:39.860 And I have a feeling the audience is going to have the chills all over their body when I read this.

00:38:43.640 So there are no points.

00:38:45.140 Every one of them is number one.

00:38:46.420 Similar to Relentless.

00:38:47.440 I'm not going to be able to get any points.

00:38:48.920 But this is one of the number one points.

00:38:51.280 Okay.

00:38:51.480 So you say on page 103, winning wants all of you.

00:38:56.640 There is no balance.

00:38:57.840 And balance, you know, is a very trending topic.

00:39:01.780 People always want to say it's not healthy to not live a balanced life.

00:39:04.580 It's not healthy to do this.

00:39:06.100 But here's a story you tell.

00:39:08.080 When my daughter was around five years old, she was watching me pack for a long road trip.

00:39:12.260 And she asked, Daddy, why do you have to travel so much?

00:39:16.060 This is how I take care of our family, I told her.

00:39:18.580 I travel for my work so I can take care of you and mom and put food on the table.

00:39:25.720 She was quiet for a moment.

00:39:27.680 And then she said the words that stung me harder than anything that has ever been said to me.

00:39:33.440 If I eat less, can you stay home more?

00:39:37.440 Holy freaking moly.

00:39:40.580 Damn.

00:39:43.000 Oh, dude, I read this.

00:39:44.560 I was like, I was just kind of like shaken by it.

00:39:47.820 And my daughter, you know, same age when you tell her, she's about to turn five years old.

00:39:52.160 How do you explain this to the average guy?

00:39:54.020 It's like, well, that's why you should stay.

00:39:55.460 That's why you shouldn't work that hard.

00:39:56.660 That's why you shouldn't go out there.

00:39:57.680 Tim, what are you doing?

00:39:58.800 Is that really a good father?

00:40:00.140 Are you really doing the right thing?

00:40:01.340 Are you wanting to go through the pain?

00:40:02.960 Why don't you just kick back a little bit?

00:40:04.300 Why don't you just relax a little bit?

00:40:07.000 The next part of that, like I said, most people would be like, okay, the story would be, yes, I unpacked.

00:40:12.480 When I decided to stay home, I kept packing.

00:40:16.600 I kept packing.

00:40:21.220 You need to be true to yourself.

00:40:23.520 And here's the thing.

00:40:26.880 I knew what she was asking.

00:40:29.860 I knew what she was going through.

00:40:31.260 But I had to be selfish during that time.

00:40:37.700 And the only reason I had to be selfish during that time is because I had a path and a goal that I wanted her to be able to achieve and her to be able to see.

00:40:48.060 And knowing that I had to make this sacrifice now for the benefit of what was going to deliver down the line.

00:40:59.460 And if I couldn't deliver what I wanted to deliver down the line, it would actually be more detrimental to myself and to the family and to my growth and to her growth if I didn't complete what I was set out to complete.

00:41:19.400 Did she read this chapter?

00:41:21.720 I have not allowed them to read the chapter yet.

00:41:24.420 Really?

00:41:25.000 Yeah, I have not.

00:41:25.460 Is this the same daughter you're about to go visit?

00:41:27.140 Yeah.

00:41:27.260 Or is this the same daughter you're about to go visit?

00:41:29.500 So, the topic of guilt.

00:41:32.760 Okay?

00:41:33.100 I want to spend a couple minutes talking about the topic of guilt.

00:41:36.020 I made a video like two months ago talking about guilt because it messes with people.

00:41:42.080 Last night, I met the breakers.

00:41:43.600 Guy comes up to me and says, Patrick, I got to talk to you, man.

00:41:45.580 I got to talk to you.

00:41:46.200 I got to talk to you.

00:41:46.740 I said, what's that?

00:41:47.260 He says, I'm a real estate developer.

00:41:49.380 I'm killing it.

00:41:50.400 I'm making millions.

00:41:51.600 I'm doing so well for myself.

00:41:53.240 I married my wife.

00:41:54.340 She's my sweetheart.

00:41:55.640 I'm 27 years old.

00:41:57.140 I'm doing everything and everything I can, but I got a six-month-old daughter that just

00:42:01.960 came, and I'm going through this, and I'm going through that.

00:42:04.820 How do you manage this?

00:42:06.100 Because my wife is a stay-at-home mom, and she's trying to take care of the kid, but

00:42:09.220 at the same time, I feel like I'm overworking in real estate.

00:42:12.340 I'm working six, all this stuff that he's telling me, right?

00:42:14.340 In my mind, I'm listening to this guy, and I'm asking myself, first of all, there is

00:42:21.080 no right answer I can give this guy.

00:42:22.440 You can't teach that.

00:42:23.760 If you're asking it, whatever answer you give, the guy's already asking for permission to

00:42:28.920 say what?

00:42:29.360 He's just asking for permission is what he's doing, right?

00:42:32.160 We're saying, hey, make me feel good that I work less and stay home and kick back and

00:42:36.660 relax.

00:42:37.440 I'm like, I don't have an answer for you, buddy.

00:42:39.700 This is not a decision I make for you.

00:42:41.480 This is a decision you're going to make, right?

00:42:43.700 How do you process the concept of guilt with people who you get to a certain level, and

00:42:49.680 you're working hard.

00:42:50.480 You're like, oh, I can compete with this level, guys, and this is great, and I'm going to

00:42:54.180 go to the next level.

00:42:55.600 Then you go to the next level, like, okay, six months ago, yeah, I can beat these guys

00:42:59.660 as well.

00:43:00.080 Then you go to the next level, and you're like, I don't know about this level.

00:43:04.500 I think at this level, I'm okay being in the top 20%.

00:43:07.960 To be in the top 1% of this level, that guy does that, that guy does this, this guy does

00:43:13.560 that, I'm backing off, right?

00:43:16.600 Do you think that is a decision the individual has to make, or do you think that is a decision

00:43:21.260 that somebody can be sold on by somebody else?

00:43:23.980 Most of the time, that decision, somebody else is sold on by somebody else.

00:43:28.360 That you're to stop.

00:43:30.500 The question I'm asking about the guilt side is the following.

00:43:33.240 I'm asking, a guy's come in, he wants to be a killer, right?

00:43:38.840 But he's hit the wall where he's experiencing similar guilt to the story you talked about

00:43:42.820 in page 103, right?

00:43:44.100 That's right, sure.

00:43:44.640 Yeah.

00:43:45.020 So he's coming to you, and he's saying, look, here's what I'm going through, Tim.

00:43:49.940 You know, you remember that story you said on 103, I'm kind of going through this.

00:43:52.400 What do you think about this, this, this, this, that?

00:43:54.260 Versus the guy who's a Michael or a Kobe or this, he already knows.

00:43:58.500 By the way, it doesn't mean it's not painful.

00:44:00.420 It doesn't mean you're not going to have an emotional moment.

00:44:01.840 It doesn't mean you're not going to cry about it.

00:44:03.180 It doesn't mean you're getting to cry.

00:44:04.280 But is it the individual's decision, or is somebody else going to sell you on, don't

00:44:08.280 worry about it, go think big, go after it?

00:44:10.700 Who makes that decision?

00:44:11.740 It's yourself.

00:44:12.540 It's the individual decision.

00:44:13.840 It's an individual decision.

00:44:15.320 All right, listen.

00:44:17.840 There's guilt that other people put on you.

00:44:20.000 The worst guilt is you put on yourself.

00:44:23.120 All right?

00:44:23.640 Every single decision, there's so much guilt that try people.

00:44:28.500 People try to put, not only are you working so much, why do you need to go work out?

00:44:33.960 You're going to eat that?

00:44:34.900 Why are you dressed that way?

00:44:36.100 Everybody's all, those are all, that's just people's way of laying guilt on you.

00:44:42.920 All right?

00:44:43.600 So people are going to be constantly laying guilt on you.

00:44:47.340 It's the guilt you put on yourself.

00:44:49.500 You make a decision to be, this is who I'm going to be.

00:44:53.000 This is who I am.

00:44:53.960 This is, this is the person.

00:44:56.460 This is the person.

00:44:57.680 And these are the consequences that come with being this person.

00:45:04.640 How do you have that conversation?

00:45:06.320 Guy asked me a question yesterday.

00:45:07.620 I'm sitting there.

00:45:08.100 Another guy comes, sits right next to my wife.

00:45:09.680 We're having dinner at this place called Echo.

00:45:12.560 And she asked, well, how do you deal with your husband that's working like this?

00:45:15.520 All this other stuff.

00:45:16.560 How do you have that conversation?

00:45:18.740 But believe it or not, most people don't know how to have this conversation.

00:45:20.740 Right.

00:45:20.900 How do you have that conversation?

00:45:22.360 Because many times if you don't have this conversation, this leads to merit.

00:45:25.480 You know, this leads to issues with friends, with family, with mom, with dad, falling out,

00:45:28.760 all this other stuff.

00:45:30.540 From your experience, I haven't been around for a while.

00:45:32.960 You got wisdom in this more than we do because you're the expert in this area.

00:45:36.400 What is the right approach to take with the people you love the most?

00:45:39.380 Your wife, your mom, your dad, your kids.

00:45:41.340 Have the conversation early, have the conversation often, but your results have to dictate what

00:45:51.340 you're doing.

00:45:52.220 That's it.

00:45:52.820 If you tell somebody, I need 90 days, you got 90 days to deliver.

00:45:58.120 Don't turn five years later and say you didn't deliver in 90 days.

00:46:02.020 If you say, hey, I need five years.

00:46:04.480 This is where I'm going.

00:46:05.560 You better deliver in those five.

00:46:07.840 I told Michael, I said, I need 30 days.

00:46:12.580 I need 30 days.

00:46:14.780 Before you make any judgment on the training, anything that's going on, I need 30 days.

00:46:21.800 30 days turned into 15 years.

00:46:25.600 So when you tell those individuals, and those results have to not only benefit you,

00:46:31.720 they have to benefit them.

00:46:34.200 They have to benefit them.

00:46:36.240 And everybody thinks about benefiting them.

00:46:39.020 It just means from a financial standpoint.

00:46:41.180 No, it's not only a financial standpoint.

00:46:44.040 If you're putting in all this time now, then when you do take that trip with the family

00:46:50.700 and you do that, you're in that trip with that family.

00:46:54.200 You're like, you've earned that time to be with them.

00:47:00.000 When I was, when my daughter was younger, I moved to LA to train Kobe.

00:47:10.240 That was one of those issues required.

00:47:11.680 He goes, I need you to, I need you to live here.

00:47:13.440 So I would, and my daughter was a volleyball player.

00:47:16.420 I said, give me the volley, give me the volleyball schedule.

00:47:19.260 All right.

00:47:19.840 And this is now from flying in from Orange County.

00:47:24.100 So I would look at the volleyball schedule.

00:47:27.160 I would look at Kobe's schedule from a workout, training, game schedule.

00:47:32.160 I would look at it.

00:47:33.440 I would literally catch a 7 a.m. flight from Orange County.

00:47:42.480 Land in Chicago.

00:47:43.520 Go to my daughter's volleyball game for 90 minutes, drive back to the airport, get on

00:47:52.460 the 7.30 flight back, and be ready for the training session next day.

00:47:58.140 Wow.

00:47:58.940 How long did you do that?

00:48:00.180 How long was that run?

00:48:01.380 Seven years.

00:48:02.180 Wow, buddy.

00:48:03.280 Good for you, man.

00:48:04.560 What a freaking story right there.

00:48:06.860 Seven years.

00:48:08.540 Now, did I make every game?

00:48:10.380 No.

00:48:13.520 Did I miss events?

00:48:15.120 I did miss events.

00:48:16.620 Was it a perfect situation?

00:48:18.320 No.

00:48:19.580 Does it come with the territory?

00:48:21.140 It does.

00:48:22.300 Unfortunately.

00:48:22.860 It does.

00:48:23.780 You know, do you almost tell somebody who, like, let's just say I come to you and I

00:48:29.080 say, tell them, let me tell you, I'm not scared of these guys.

00:48:31.560 I want to go compete with these guys.

00:48:33.040 And I believe I got what it takes.

00:48:34.560 I'm 6'6".

00:48:35.280 I got a 43-inch vertical leap.

00:48:36.800 I got a good size mitt.

00:48:38.000 I got a good quick first step.

00:48:40.020 I'm an 81% free throw shooter in college.

00:48:42.220 I'm a 48% field goal shooter.

00:48:44.800 I'm pretty good at my game.

00:48:45.920 I'm good.

00:48:46.400 I'm a guy that's coming up.

00:48:47.380 I think I can play ball with these guys.

00:48:49.280 If I come to you, do you tell me, you sure you're going to be okay with this?

00:48:53.640 You sure you're going to be okay with that?

00:48:55.120 Are you sure you're going to handle this?

00:48:56.580 You sure you're going to be accepting the fact that, you know, parents are not going

00:48:59.160 to support you?

00:49:00.320 How do you handle it?

00:49:01.020 Are you inter...

00:49:01.860 Is there an interview process or...

00:49:03.380 All the whole things.

00:49:04.920 You know, everybody...

00:49:05.820 It's like, okay, this is what I'm going to do and this is what I'm willing to do.

00:49:13.600 Do those things match.

00:49:15.260 You know, everybody likes to tell you, yeah, I want to be the best.

00:49:17.840 This, this, this.

00:49:18.680 I tell all the people I say all the time.

00:49:20.580 I get that.

00:49:21.120 Listen, I'll outwork anybody.

00:49:23.260 I'll do anything.

00:49:24.160 I'll do this.

00:49:24.760 And I'll say, okay, I'll see you tomorrow for the workout.

00:49:27.020 What time's the workout?

00:49:27.840 I need you here at 3.30 in the morning.

00:49:29.220 I can't do that.

00:49:33.780 What do you got going on at 3.30 in the morning?

00:49:39.120 All right.

00:49:39.920 And usually when I say 3.30, they think about 3.30 in the afternoon.

00:49:46.500 So everybody says they're going to do, they're going to do these things and very few will

00:49:52.040 actually follow through on them.

00:49:55.600 Did you ever fire a client?

00:49:56.600 Oh, I fired more clients and I've, I've returned more money than I've actually kept.

00:50:01.740 Any names that people would know about?

00:50:03.540 Oh, tons of names.

00:50:04.520 Okay.

00:50:04.760 So you fire clients.

00:50:05.600 You're like, I'm not.

00:50:06.240 High end individuals, high end sports, wealthy, all stars, all that.

00:50:12.820 I had one individual right in the middle of the game.

00:50:15.220 He was just like, here, I said, I told one of my assistants, I go into the office, grab

00:50:18.720 my checkbook.

00:50:19.460 I wrote my check.

00:50:19.940 I said, here, get out.

00:50:21.780 What caused you to get to that point?

00:50:26.600 Once I put my reputation on an individual, I have certain expectations.

00:50:35.120 Got it.

00:50:35.380 The organization has certain expectations.

00:50:38.020 So there's a trust factor going in both ways.

00:50:40.400 If I can't, I can only, I'm only as good as my clients allow me to be.

00:50:44.160 Makes sense.

00:50:44.780 I'm only as good as my clients allow me to be.

00:50:47.020 My results are dictated by how hard and how well somebody else is willing to listen and

00:50:55.820 willing to do the work and follow directions when I'm not around.

00:51:01.040 That's, that's, that's it.

00:51:03.000 All right.

00:51:04.240 I can, I cannot physically put the ball in the basket for you.

00:51:07.940 I cannot play defense.

00:51:09.840 I can't set a pick.

00:51:11.640 I can't throw the football.

00:51:12.900 I can't swing the baseball.

00:51:14.220 I can't do that for you.

00:51:15.760 If I could, you and I would still, you and I would be playing.

00:51:20.240 We would have had it.

00:51:20.860 We would have had it.

00:51:21.460 We would have had a career.

00:51:22.320 All right.

00:51:24.980 So the things that I'm requiring of you, those are non-negotiables in that point.

00:51:33.120 You have to do, you have to do this.

00:51:34.640 Because you have, you have, you have to do this because my obligation and your obligation

00:51:42.900 is to yourself, to your family, to the organization, to your fans, to the people that sit down and

00:51:56.800 watch you on TV, and it's also to winning.

00:52:05.520 Winning wants to see how loyal you are to it.

00:52:08.020 What, what are you going to do to get there and to stay, and to stay there?

00:52:15.120 And most people aren't.

00:52:17.060 They're just, they, they aren't.

00:52:19.280 Why don't?

00:52:20.900 It's too hard.

00:52:22.340 Same thing.

00:52:23.100 Still is too hard.

00:52:23.760 It's just, it's just, it's just, it's too, too hard.

00:52:29.060 Is the reward worth it?

00:52:32.040 Winning is everything.

00:52:34.400 When I asked Kobe, you know, I have this thing in the book, I said, the language of winning.

00:52:38.840 And Kobe's answer was, I said, winning is everything.

00:52:42.600 Just think about it.

00:52:45.700 How good winning makes you feel.

00:52:47.300 When you see your kids win, how, how, how good is, yes.

00:52:51.640 When your spouse wins, when your significant other, when your team wins, the feeling it

00:52:55.980 gives yourself.

00:52:57.600 Exhilarating.

00:52:58.280 It's everything.

00:52:59.080 Yeah.

00:52:59.760 For that moment, nothing else matters.

00:53:02.920 Nothing, nothing else matters.

00:53:07.800 I agree.

00:53:08.580 I'm going to read some of the principles you got, and we'll get into a couple of them

00:53:11.080 here.

00:53:11.360 And then I want to spend some time talking about the last dance.

00:53:14.080 Got a couple of questions for you on that.

00:53:15.620 So, uh, they're all 13.

00:53:18.580 They're all number one.

00:53:19.300 So I'm going to just read through some of these here.

00:53:20.840 Number one, winning makes you different and different scares people.

00:53:24.120 Winning wages war in the battlefield of your mind.

00:53:26.960 Winning is the ultimate gamble on yourself.

00:53:30.000 Winning isn't heartless, but you'll lose, but you'll use your heart less.

00:53:35.660 Winning belongs to them.

00:53:36.840 And it's your job to take it.

00:53:38.840 Winning wants all of you.

00:53:40.160 There is no balance.

00:53:40.980 We just read it.

00:53:41.940 Winning is selfish.

00:53:43.640 Winning takes you through hell.

00:53:45.000 And if you quit, that's where you'll stay.

00:53:47.880 Winning is a test with no correct answers.

00:53:51.120 Winning knows all your secrets.

00:53:53.500 Winning never lies.

00:53:55.200 Winning is not a marathon.

00:53:56.640 It's a sprint with no finish line.

00:53:59.160 Winning is everything.

00:54:00.800 Freaking amazing.

00:54:02.440 Tell me about winning knows all your secrets.

00:54:10.360 Winning knows everything about you.

00:54:12.180 It knows your addictions.

00:54:14.800 It knows what takes you out of your focus.

00:54:17.300 It knows what buttons to push.

00:54:19.140 It knows what buttons to pull.

00:54:20.500 It knows what you like.

00:54:21.800 It knows what you doesn't like.

00:54:23.680 Because it's you.

00:54:25.480 It is you.

00:54:26.680 Everything that you've hidden in the closet, winning knows all of it.

00:54:31.560 It knows everything about yourself.

00:54:35.040 The person that you don't want to deal with.

00:54:37.440 The person that you cheat.

00:54:38.900 The person that lights your fire.

00:54:41.740 The person that takes your focus away.

00:54:44.260 It knows it all.

00:54:46.120 And that's one of the questions I ask all my clients because I don't know them.

00:54:50.420 I need to know everything that's going on in your life.

00:54:53.640 Everything.

00:54:55.780 Everything.

00:54:57.940 Everything.

00:54:58.820 I'm not here to judge.

00:55:00.200 Winning is not here to judge.

00:55:01.420 Winning is the end result.

00:55:03.000 It is not here to judge.

00:55:06.700 I need to know what distracts you.

00:55:09.320 I don't need to know what keeps you on.

00:55:11.540 What keeps you focused.

00:55:13.340 I give you.

00:55:13.880 I know you like stories.

00:55:15.180 So I'll give you this.

00:55:15.880 I'll give you this story.

00:55:16.660 I'm going to take the name out of it.

00:55:18.440 And so this was during this was during a championship number.

00:55:24.880 I forget.

00:55:25.820 It was either number four or five with Kobe.

00:55:27.640 So one of the players all of a sudden like a month before the playoffs.

00:55:35.880 His numbers just started to dive.

00:55:39.120 Just started to dive.

00:55:42.180 And nobody could figure it out.

00:55:45.980 Nobody could figure it out.

00:55:47.060 So Kobe goes, hey, I need you to go talk to him.

00:55:50.840 So I sit down and talk to the player.

00:55:52.420 He goes, man, I don't know what's happening.

00:55:53.720 He goes, I'm working.

00:55:56.140 He goes, I'm working out.

00:55:57.820 I'm working out more.

00:55:59.240 I'm staying in.

00:56:00.880 I'm not smoking.

00:56:01.900 I'm not drinking.

00:56:02.320 I said, whoa, whoa, stop.

00:56:04.620 You're not doing what?

00:56:05.820 He goes, I don't drink.

00:56:06.580 I said, you've been in the league for how many years now?

00:56:14.600 I said, every single game you've always, this ain't the time to change.

00:56:20.140 This is not the time to do it.

00:56:21.560 This is not the time.

00:56:22.200 This is a well-known player.

00:56:23.220 Everybody knows who this guy is.

00:56:24.120 Everybody knows who this guy is.

00:56:24.580 So he's changed a routine.

00:56:26.880 Because he thought it was going to be better.

00:56:29.600 Because everybody told him that this is what you're supposed to do.

00:56:34.840 This is what you're supposed to do.

00:56:36.820 Okay, you're getting the playoffs.

00:56:38.020 These are the things that you need to do.

00:56:39.480 But winning knew all his secrets.

00:56:43.160 And the things that actually allowed him to play at his best, he stopped doing.

00:56:51.800 Because everybody said, these are detrimental to you.

00:56:57.620 And for most individuals, they might be detrimental.

00:57:00.360 But not to this guy.

00:57:01.240 But not to this guy.

00:57:04.160 It's just like those long hours.

00:57:05.720 Long hours, lack of sleep may be detrimental to a lot of people.

00:57:10.020 But for some people, it's not.

00:57:11.640 You know, we're in a society now where we look at it where sleep deprivation is like a sign of success.

00:57:21.160 Like everybody, oh man, beat the sun up.

00:57:23.780 They show the time they're getting up.

00:57:26.680 They show the clock.

00:57:27.500 You know, it's 3.30 in the morning.

00:57:29.660 All right?

00:57:30.620 So everybody thinks, well, if I beat the sun up, I'll be successful.

00:57:36.780 If you're not productive when the sun is, no.

00:57:39.960 Don't beat the sun up.

00:57:41.640 So society pushes you in these different ways.

00:57:44.260 What are your thoughts on sleep?

00:57:45.480 How did you handle sleep with your guys?

00:57:48.040 How did you handle it?

00:57:48.760 One of the most important things I got Colby to do was to take naps.

00:57:56.540 Same thing with MJ.

00:57:57.620 Same thing with all my athletes.

00:58:00.140 Recovery is so...

00:58:01.920 You can do all the recovery modalities in the world.

00:58:04.540 How did you convince him to take naps?

00:58:06.040 Sleep is the best thing.

00:58:09.600 So I would say, just listen.

00:58:12.060 You can show them all the scientific data.

00:58:13.880 You can show them all that stuff.

00:58:15.180 I said, let's do this.

00:58:16.180 I said, for one week.

00:58:18.200 I'm not asking you for one day.

00:58:19.640 For one week.

00:58:20.700 Let's schedule a nap.

00:58:21.540 I don't care if it's a 10 minute.

00:58:22.740 I don't care if it's 20 minutes.

00:58:23.960 I don't care if it's an hour.

00:58:25.220 And I said, let's see how your performance happens.

00:58:27.220 Let's see what goes on with your performance when you take those naps.

00:58:30.360 How do you feel?

00:58:31.300 I said, just try.

00:58:34.120 All right?

00:58:35.060 I said, for one week.

00:58:35.860 I said, in one week, back then you're going to play maybe three games, maybe four games.

00:58:41.420 All right?

00:58:42.240 Just go out and do it.

00:58:45.060 And they saw the results.

00:58:47.560 You know, you got this beautiful bike over here.

00:58:53.360 All right?

00:58:55.220 Every, you know how to make it go.

00:58:58.740 Fast.

00:59:00.160 You know how to make it stop, too, don't you?

00:59:02.500 Yes.

00:59:03.760 Everybody wants to go, go, go.

00:59:06.800 You got to teach.

00:59:07.800 You got to sometimes the greatest individuals, you got to teach them to stop.

00:59:15.980 Now, that stop is just for a moment.

00:59:20.300 It's got to be a tough sale, though, man.

00:59:22.320 It's got to be a tough sale.

00:59:23.720 It's got to be the right person saying it for the person to, the individual to want to accept that.

00:59:28.740 Yeah, it is.

00:59:30.020 And that, you know, with Kobe, when I got him to do less, when I actually got him to do less, which was a challenge, which was a huge challenge, to get him to do less.

00:59:40.160 And that's when things really changed for that.

00:59:45.340 That thing's when really is the longevity of being able to play 20, being able to play 20 years.

00:59:51.580 That's what you said.

00:59:52.420 What?

00:59:52.580 You said Kobe worked harder, but Jordan worked smarter, right?

00:59:57.800 Yeah.

00:59:57.940 So, Jordan was willing to take your counsel to say stop, but you would tell Kobe to stop.

01:00:01.860 Kobe would come back in the afternoon shoot for a couple more hours.

01:00:04.120 Yeah.

01:00:05.100 So, we'd have these crazy workouts late at night.

01:00:07.680 You know, Kobe is, you know, everyone knows about those things.

01:00:12.160 We'd work out.

01:00:13.440 All right.

01:00:15.100 We'd get done.

01:00:17.960 He'd leave.

01:00:18.840 I would literally sit in the gym for another half hour because I know he's coming back.

01:00:24.260 Got it.

01:00:24.880 I know he's coming back.

01:00:26.180 How much of that is, because you're a non-negotiable guy as well, right?

01:00:28.640 You're non-negotiable.

01:00:29.420 The guy tells you, hey, when you get up on stage, don't curse.

01:00:31.500 But the guy before he gets up on stage and he curses, you're like, wait a minute.

01:00:34.580 Why does he, you're getting like, I have two non-negotiables.

01:00:38.040 One, I'm going to deliver and keep my word.

01:00:39.780 But two, I'm going to be myself.

01:00:41.180 So, how do I do here?

01:00:42.200 So, is this an element of Kobe saying, screw everybody.

01:00:45.240 This is my non-negotiable that I'm going to come and do this no matter what.

01:00:49.300 And he can't get past taking counsel for someone like you?

01:00:52.540 Is that his inner battle that he has?

01:00:54.200 That's an, it's always an inner battle.

01:00:55.940 It's always an inner battle.

01:00:57.200 And sometimes that inner battle turned into a physical battle.

01:01:02.360 Injury or you're talking?

01:01:03.940 No, I'm talking about between us.

01:01:06.700 Got it.

01:01:06.860 He's trying to get in the gym.

01:01:07.920 I'm pushing him out of the gym.

01:01:09.300 Got it.

01:01:10.000 All right.

01:01:10.460 Would he get pissed?

01:01:11.140 We're like, hey, get out of my way.

01:01:12.160 I'm going to do what I want to do.

01:01:13.080 Yeah.

01:01:13.240 And I'd have to, I'd have to stand, I'd have to stand my ground.

01:01:16.380 I'd have to stand.

01:01:16.940 How do you do that to that guy?

01:01:17.860 How does he listen to you at that level?

01:01:20.180 Oh, well, there's a lot of adjectives and words used that I used, you know?

01:01:29.420 Well, there's a lot of stuff.

01:01:31.920 There's a lot of stuff going.

01:01:33.040 But if you're strong enough in your, you hired me to do this job.

01:01:39.200 Let me do it.

01:01:40.180 Trust me.

01:01:40.800 Let me do my job.

01:01:41.600 So, by the way, is that a sign that Jordan's trusted more than Kobe did?

01:01:45.980 No, I just, with MJ, I started earlier in his career.

01:01:51.960 It was in 89.

01:01:54.120 All right.

01:01:54.260 Kobe hasn't won yet.

01:01:55.280 That's pissed me.

01:01:55.940 He hasn't won.

01:01:56.340 Yeah, he hasn't won.

01:01:57.560 All right.

01:01:58.260 With Kobe, Kobe had already won.

01:02:00.460 He had already won three.

01:02:02.620 I came in during 2007.

01:02:04.840 I came in during the Olympics time, during the Olympic times.

01:02:08.480 That's when it's so, it was a totally, it was different stages.

01:02:14.980 And I was only, from an outside training standpoint, I was the only trainer MJ had.

01:02:23.600 Kobe had been through numerous, numerous during that time, a lot of them.

01:02:30.980 So, there was, he had already had a baseline of thinking.

01:02:34.000 I give a great, he would love to do track work.

01:02:37.760 Who's that?

01:02:38.320 Kobe would love to do, he'd love to run on the track.

01:02:41.920 All right.

01:02:43.180 And he was always taught to run in the same direction.

01:02:47.660 Same direction, same direction, same direction.

01:02:50.840 All right.

01:02:51.260 Well, I said, Kobe, if you keep running the bank on the same way, all right, every time you take a turn,

01:02:58.440 the impact on your knee is the same.

01:03:03.720 Because if you look at a NASCAR, okay, the NASCARs, all the turns are left, left, left, left.

01:03:11.700 So, you can tip from the tires.

01:03:12.720 So, he was just like, this doesn't, I don't understand what you're saying.

01:03:19.260 So, I just, I literally put him in touch with a pit crew of the NASCAR individuals.

01:03:24.000 I said, just tell them how the tires wear out.

01:03:25.860 So, did both of them need to be explained, or did Michael just take the counsel, but Kobe needed an explanation?

01:03:35.160 Michael took the counsel, Kobe always needed, always all, you know, when you interviewed him.

01:03:42.000 No question about it, yeah.

01:03:43.660 Yeah, he's an explanation.

01:03:44.960 Interesting.

01:03:45.480 He needed an explanation.

01:03:46.640 But both crazy, psycho competitors, one needed an explanation.

01:03:50.720 The other one is like, just tell me, I'll go out there and do it.

01:03:52.520 The other guy said, hey, I hired you to do this.

01:03:56.880 He goes, if I have to question you, then I've lost trust and I've lost faith in you.

01:04:02.940 So, Jordan did trust more than Kobe did.

01:04:05.160 Yeah, but he would always, he would always, he knew the difference between if somebody was trying to BS him and what was real.

01:04:14.240 You know, there's a whole thing about winning never lies.

01:04:17.040 Yep.

01:04:17.480 So, that's the whole point.

01:04:18.700 It's just like, okay, he just, he had that innate ability to be like, yeah, this doesn't sound right.

01:04:24.260 This doesn't, this doesn't sound, he would always like, is this a gimmick?

01:04:28.740 No, no, no, this is, yeah, Michael says, no, no, no, there's, there's, there's no gimmicks.

01:04:33.060 There's no gimmick, there's no gimmicks here.

01:04:34.720 Just, this is why we're doing it.

01:04:36.000 This, and it was a quick, it was a, and he wanted to see the results.

01:04:38.840 Hey, let's do this, this, and this.

01:04:40.340 Kobe needed a little bit.

01:04:41.380 Kobe, Kobe, you know, more of a renaissance man, did a lot of reading, you know, spoke, what, four, five languages?

01:04:48.100 Proficient, proficiently.

01:04:50.880 I mean, this was, I agree.

01:04:51.760 Kobe could have done a lot of different things.

01:04:53.500 And he, Kobe could have been a private equity guy.

01:04:55.340 Kobe could have been a, you know, his mind is very, when I think about Kobe's mind,

01:05:02.220 I think about an analytical, crazy, genius type of a brain that he had.

01:05:07.540 Who, have you heard this?

01:05:10.200 You've heard this story before.

01:05:11.820 Who goes out and knows that you sign Pau Gasol,

01:05:17.720 and the way you're going to communicate with him on the court,

01:05:21.780 it's going to be in Spanish, so nobody else can understand what's going on.

01:05:27.680 So you're literally calling plays, because everybody knows the numbers and so forth.

01:05:34.800 You know, everybody knows what signs it says.

01:05:36.400 Like, everybody knows that.

01:05:37.780 So no sign.

01:05:38.600 So he's, they're literally talking back and forth.

01:05:41.500 And the other eight guys on the court are like, what are these two,

01:05:45.000 what are these, what are these two individuals talking about?

01:05:47.460 You talk about it in the GQ commercial, GQ video that you did.

01:05:50.000 I think it was GQ that you did, where you said he was learning Mandarin

01:05:53.120 because he was seeing the direction the NBA was going.

01:05:55.940 Yes.

01:05:56.360 What a visionary of a guy to be.

01:05:58.340 Seven years before.

01:06:00.520 He owned, I mean, just unbelievable.

01:06:04.140 I mean, in China, they loved it.

01:06:05.900 I mean, he was.

01:06:07.260 Absolutely.

01:06:08.080 And he understood because he started to make those trips before.

01:06:12.300 Like, he would visit China.

01:06:13.960 Like, not because Nike sent him there.

01:06:15.680 Just like, hey, let's, me and the team, or sometimes the family,

01:06:19.240 let's just go down there so people would see him.

01:06:21.260 So he started, he started to do his research,

01:06:23.840 started to understand what was going on.

01:06:26.880 You know, just like when he, who's, Luca Dandis for Dallas.

01:06:31.060 He was trash talking.

01:06:33.700 And it's just like, Luca was like, who's that speaking to me?

01:06:37.160 In his language.

01:06:38.160 In his language.

01:06:38.680 That's right.

01:06:38.700 When he turned on, he was sitting, yeah.

01:06:39.920 Yeah.

01:06:40.760 In his language.

01:06:41.660 So he spoke, you know, obviously he spoke Italian.

01:06:44.000 He spoke, you know, everybody knows he spoke English.

01:06:46.420 He spoke Spanish.

01:06:47.300 He spoke Mandarin.

01:06:48.080 And, you know, whatever else he was, whatever else he was working,

01:06:51.720 whatever else he was working on.

01:06:55.860 Fascinating thinking about this stuff.

01:06:57.240 Yeah.

01:06:57.520 By the way, you know, you said sometimes the whole tire thing, right?

01:07:02.840 When you're wearing it out, eventually you got your knees.

01:07:05.200 Because, you know, Kobe had the whole knee situation.

01:07:07.180 You got your back.

01:07:07.840 You got knees.

01:07:08.320 You got all this other stuff.

01:07:10.140 What are your thoughts?

01:07:11.220 I was sitting down.

01:07:12.360 We had one of our clients that was here, Dr. Gill.

01:07:15.120 Dr. Gill, who does stem cells.

01:07:16.280 He says he knows you guys are good friends.

01:07:17.520 Yes, yes.

01:07:18.280 He actually sent me a picture of you guys yesterday.

01:07:20.040 He was going to be here, too.

01:07:21.380 But he said he had a 7 o'clock flight.

01:07:22.760 But we were talking about you.

01:07:24.060 And he said the fact that you went with Kobe to Germany when he went through it.

01:07:27.580 I don't know if you did or not.

01:07:28.720 I did.

01:07:28.840 Okay.

01:07:29.420 I did.

01:07:29.640 So, what are your thoughts?

01:07:31.200 Because right now, it was PRP back 10, right?

01:07:33.980 And platelet, you know, the whole thing that was, you know, he went in, got the injections,

01:07:37.860 came back younger, rejuvenated.

01:07:39.500 He's going out there doing all that stuff.

01:07:40.880 Now you're hearing a lot about stem cells.

01:07:43.080 And athletes conditioning is different.

01:07:45.240 Players are playing 43.

01:07:47.020 Brady winning a Super Bowl.

01:07:48.820 You know, maybe athletes are going to push work and play until 45.

01:07:52.180 Who knows?

01:07:52.440 Maybe some guy in the next 20 years is going to play until 50 with the way you're going, right?

01:07:56.760 What are your thoughts about the treatments with PRP stem cells?

01:07:59.700 Do you have any opinion on that?

01:08:01.960 I just have.

01:08:03.000 My opinion on it is what the research is available.

01:08:05.260 For some individuals, it works tremendously.

01:08:08.520 It really does.

01:08:09.500 And then for other individuals, it just doesn't.

01:08:12.000 So, what I look at is if you're dealing with an injury, go out there and study and try all the modalities that are out there,

01:08:21.880 that are available to you.

01:08:23.480 Do your homework.

01:08:24.560 Have your trainers.

01:08:25.560 Have your medical staff.

01:08:26.800 Look at the different researchers.

01:08:30.360 Talk to the athletes that or individuals that it's worked for.

01:08:34.060 Talk to the athletes that it didn't work for.

01:08:35.920 Find out where they got it, what the procedure was, all that.

01:08:38.700 And if you're not willing to do that, have somebody else who is.

01:08:42.820 All right?

01:08:43.500 But you have so much more that's available to you.

01:08:46.700 But also, when you have too much data available to you, it confuses you.

01:08:50.980 It really does.

01:08:52.260 Who do you trust?

01:08:53.020 What route do you go?

01:08:54.220 Yeah.

01:08:54.720 I mean, you have organizations with teams that have defined jobs.

01:09:00.320 You have your athletic trainers.

01:09:02.540 You have your masseuses.

01:09:04.380 You have your strength and conditioning individuals.

01:09:07.360 You have your data collectors.

01:09:08.680 You have all these people.

01:09:10.400 It's very hard to find individuals that are all on the same page because everybody's looking for the credit.

01:09:15.480 But everybody's looking for the credit for the success of that individual, that athlete, and so forth.

01:09:23.220 All right?

01:09:24.440 Instead of figuring out what's best for that individual, the success lies in how the individual, the company performs.

01:09:32.640 That's where the success lies in.

01:09:35.920 It doesn't lie in the individual.

01:09:37.800 So when you're out there getting, make sure everybody on your organization, on your team, they can all have different styles.

01:09:45.820 You know, you walk around here.

01:09:47.140 When we go back, I remember this, for our first interview, I was in a suit that didn't fit, and you were in a leather jacket, sitting on two lounge chairs.

01:10:03.520 Yes.

01:10:04.700 All right?

01:10:05.300 Sitting on two lounge chairs.

01:10:08.040 All right?

01:10:08.440 That was our style.

01:10:14.440 All right?

01:10:17.220 But our identity hasn't changed.

01:10:21.340 Our identity, your identity hasn't changed from them.

01:10:24.520 My identity hasn't changed from them.

01:10:27.580 All right?

01:10:28.640 Your team can have different styles.

01:10:31.320 You know, you look at the individuals, the way they dress, the way they do things, the way they handle business.

01:10:35.540 You know, some people like to eat while they're working.

01:10:37.440 But the identity of a successful team, the identity of winning has to be the same.

01:10:46.120 It has to be the same.

01:10:48.900 You can call it vision.

01:10:49.960 You can call it whatever you want to call it.

01:10:54.280 All right?

01:10:55.620 It's just like, listen, I've seen you transform from an individual that used to be in jeans.

01:11:07.440 Now, look at your hairstyle.

01:11:09.940 You're constantly changing your hair.

01:11:12.820 But your identity hasn't changed.

01:11:15.580 Your identity from where I first met you to now is exactly the same.

01:11:22.840 It's exactly the same.

01:11:25.040 Because you know who you are.

01:11:27.040 If winning's not going to lie, you can't lie to winning.

01:11:33.500 Too many people don't know who they are, and they lie.

01:11:36.600 They lie without even saying a word.

01:11:42.160 There's so much truth behind that.

01:11:43.640 You know, I'm in Palm Beach.

01:11:48.040 I'm looking at a house.

01:11:49.300 Realtor who comes and starts talking to me.

01:11:51.040 My realtor says, I just want you to know, I'm the best of the best in Fort Lauderdale.

01:11:54.860 But this guy's the best of the best in Palm Beach.

01:11:57.000 I sell $20 million homes.

01:11:58.700 This guy sells $100 million homes.

01:12:00.280 He was selling Trump's house for like $140 million.

01:12:02.040 And he takes and shows us the house.

01:12:04.280 Like Sly just bought the house.

01:12:05.280 He sold him the house.

01:12:06.180 And we looked at the house yet because it was his house before he sold it to Sly for like

01:12:09.400 whatever the number was, $35 million.

01:12:11.740 And while I'm with him, he gets a call from Steve Wynn.

01:12:15.060 So he says, hey, what's up?

01:12:15.840 Hey, I'm here with a friend, Patrick.

01:12:17.260 Hey, what's going on back and forth?

01:12:19.180 And then I said, so how long have you known Wynn, Trump, all these guys?

01:12:23.760 How many of these guys do you know?

01:12:25.100 He says, 35 years.

01:12:26.520 I've known these guys.

01:12:27.440 Okay.

01:12:28.580 Tell me the personality.

01:12:29.360 So he starts kind of telling me the personality, all this other stuff.

01:12:32.040 He says, you know, some of the guys that make it at the small percentage of, you know,

01:12:37.220 1% of 1%, whatever that number is, they have very few friends.

01:12:42.380 They have a lot of people they know, but they have very, very few friends.

01:12:45.360 How hard is it to be friends with a guy like, was there a, was Michael more a friendly guy

01:12:52.640 who he had a lot of friends or, you know, Kobe is known for not being a guy that had a

01:12:57.960 lot of friends.

01:12:58.340 He was kind of a loner himself.

01:12:59.520 He was more to himself than it was the other way around.

01:13:01.180 But what, what could you say about who they let in and how easily they befriended people?

01:13:07.560 They let very few people in and they, both of them didn't have a lot of friends.

01:13:12.540 They just didn't.

01:13:13.400 Why do you think that is though?

01:13:14.280 Why do you think that is?

01:13:15.080 Well, one, they don't really look for friends.

01:13:21.000 They look for allies.

01:13:24.180 There's a huge difference.

01:13:25.820 A friend comes and goes when things are good and they're gone when they're bad and friends

01:13:30.520 don't have answers.

01:13:31.820 Friends give you the answers when something isn't going well.

01:13:34.260 They say, oh, it's going to be okay.

01:13:35.800 Tomorrow's another day.

01:13:36.800 These guys, they're not looking for, they've never settled for okay in their life.

01:13:41.180 So if you tell them everything's going to be okay, they're like, that's a miserable day.

01:13:44.540 That's a miserable day.

01:13:46.940 They're not looking for friends.

01:13:48.000 They're looking for allies.

01:13:49.020 They're looking for allies.

01:13:51.040 All right.

01:13:52.180 Winning doesn't have any friends.

01:13:53.780 Everybody that's one, they're all allies because they can relate to each other.

01:13:59.000 Exactly.

01:13:59.780 Got it.

01:14:00.400 All right.

01:14:01.100 So those, those are, those are the individuals.

01:14:04.040 Allies tell you what you need to hear.

01:14:08.460 Not what you want to hear.

01:14:11.480 Is it because they all speak the same language and nobody else speaks the language they speak,

01:14:15.260 the mindset language, whatever that may be?

01:14:17.200 Yes.

01:14:17.680 And it's speaking in very few words.

01:14:20.460 The truth, how old are your kids?

01:14:24.020 Nine, seven, four.

01:14:25.380 All right.

01:14:26.160 So here's the thing.

01:14:28.120 You can always tell when a kid's going to fib something because the story gets real, real

01:14:32.740 long.

01:14:33.380 It just gets a little longer and long and that doesn't change with individuals.

01:14:38.120 You can, the truth is simple.

01:14:40.440 It takes very few words.

01:14:42.480 People understand it.

01:14:43.700 It's that.

01:14:44.300 When is the right time to tell the truth?

01:14:46.300 It's always the right time.

01:14:48.400 It's always the right time.

01:14:49.720 Those individuals, they don't want to be BS'd.

01:14:52.440 Allies will not BS you.

01:14:53.720 When you're performing well, they'll let you know.

01:14:56.220 When you're not performing well, they'll let you know.

01:14:58.340 If you're doing something destructive, they'll let you know.

01:15:00.660 And sometimes your allies aren't even your closest, they're not even your closest associates.

01:15:05.900 They just pop in to be like, they hold you accountable and they leave.

01:15:12.080 That's it.

01:15:12.980 But people don't want to be surrounded about those guys because you look in a relationship.

01:15:18.780 Winning requires, it requires all of you.

01:15:22.340 And if it requires all of you, it requires you to be honest.

01:15:26.600 So people cannot be honest.

01:15:28.300 People cannot be honest with themselves.

01:15:30.740 They can't be honest with other individuals.

01:15:32.580 What's the first thing people say they want in a relationship?

01:15:35.540 Honesty.

01:15:36.400 Until you're honest with them.

01:15:39.200 So what happens?

01:15:40.720 When you are honest with an individual and you tell them the truth,

01:15:46.640 it's supposed to lead to better performance, better understanding.

01:15:53.440 What does it usually do?

01:15:55.220 It leads to more emotions.

01:15:56.460 And more emotions lead to what?

01:15:59.120 Less productivity, less of everything.

01:16:04.520 Because now you have to deal with an emotional situation.

01:16:07.740 These people know how to go from one emotion to another quickly.

01:16:15.800 They know how to go from fun to serious, serious back to fun, quiet to loud, loud to quiet.

01:16:24.700 They have that ability to go...

01:16:27.140 What a crazy thing you just said.

01:16:28.320 You know, they said that about Tupac.

01:16:30.120 I don't know who was talking about Tupac.

01:16:31.700 He says, one day I'm sitting down with Tupac.

01:16:34.220 One minute he's a poet.

01:16:35.320 One minute he's a philosopher.

01:16:37.580 One minute he's a crusader.

01:16:39.300 One minute he's got thinking about his enemies.

01:16:41.500 One minute he's this.

01:16:42.280 His mind was, is it the level of creativity or is it the level of focusedness?

01:16:47.600 Or is it the level of they feel all the sensitivities?

01:16:51.000 They're aware of everything that's going...

01:16:52.340 They are so aware of everything that's going around them.

01:16:55.620 They are so...

01:16:56.820 Does the smallest thing bother them?

01:16:58.360 Is it the slightest thing could bother them or no?

01:17:00.840 It could...

01:17:01.460 I won't say it bothers them.

01:17:06.020 They know whether they need to use it or not use it.

01:17:09.780 They have the shortest memories.

01:17:10.920 They don't forget.

01:17:13.640 It's obvious from last answer.

01:17:15.540 They don't forget.

01:17:16.900 I'm supposed to kill this guy.

01:17:18.100 Yeah.

01:17:18.840 They don't forget, but they have the shortest memories.

01:17:21.480 And what I mean by the shortest memories is...

01:17:24.920 I've always said that to the greatest athletes out there, thinking is a distraction.

01:17:33.920 Because if you're thinking, you're not in the moment.

01:17:36.040 But it takes years and years and years and years of thinking not to be able to think.

01:17:43.840 Not to be able to think.

01:17:46.260 So these individuals that can go from one emotion to another.

01:17:50.220 They can go from laughing to serious.

01:17:52.240 They can go...

01:17:52.820 They have that ability to know what they can use and what they can't use.

01:17:58.760 And they can get rid of it real, real, real, real quick.

01:18:02.560 Real, real quick.

01:18:03.760 I ask this because you think about Michael and Chuck, right?

01:18:12.820 Charles.

01:18:13.440 Phenomenal relationship.

01:18:14.580 Great friendship they got.

01:18:15.600 And then all of a sudden, one day...

01:18:16.680 They're on the Oprah Winfrey one.

01:18:18.420 You know this kid where Charles is wearing the blue jumpsuit.

01:18:23.920 Michael comes out in a nice thing.

01:18:25.280 And they're just taking shots at each other.

01:18:26.980 Taking shots at each other.

01:18:28.020 And then the friendship is a falling out.

01:18:31.080 That's what I mean.

01:18:31.960 At one point, what is the falling out for?

01:18:34.420 Is it personal?

01:18:35.260 Is it why did you side with him?

01:18:36.900 How could you say that guy's a better player than me?

01:18:39.000 Are you freaking kidding me?

01:18:39.940 You know I crushed you when we played.

01:18:42.220 What gets a guy at that level to stop a relationship with a guy like Charles you've known for 20, 30 years?

01:18:48.500 They just decide one day, I'm not doing this anymore.

01:18:51.720 That may be whatever reason it is.

01:18:54.780 You know, I don't know what...

01:18:56.620 Obviously, I know what's been in the media and what's been going on.

01:18:59.260 But they just...

01:19:00.400 When they decide, they make a decision.

01:19:02.500 They don't make a suggestion.

01:19:03.640 They make a decision.

01:19:05.300 Think about yourself.

01:19:06.560 You made a decision to move your family, to move to this location, to separate the two businesses.

01:19:14.300 Those are all decisions.

01:19:16.860 How many individuals do you know are still making suggestions?

01:19:21.280 In order to win, you've got to make decisions.

01:19:25.160 You can't make decisions, yeah.

01:19:26.760 You've got to make decisions.

01:19:31.120 Winning, that's the first thing winning will require.

01:19:33.360 Are you deciding or are you suggesting to be in this unforgiving race?

01:19:38.680 What are you doing?

01:19:39.940 What are you doing?

01:19:41.580 Makes sense.

01:19:42.620 Michael made a decision and boom, that's what happens.

01:19:44.320 That's it, that's what happens.

01:19:45.380 I mean, listen, I think the world would love to see those guys back at it again, talking to each other.

01:19:49.100 Of course they would.

01:19:49.660 I think it's eventually going to happen.

01:19:51.340 I agree with you.

01:19:51.940 I think it's going to be headlined.

01:19:52.440 I think it's going to do very good on TV.

01:19:53.520 I agree with you.

01:19:54.140 Charles, you've got to love Charles.

01:19:55.460 I mean, Charles is the best guy on TV.

01:19:57.340 I don't think anybody can...

01:19:58.520 I don't know how many awards this guy's won.

01:20:00.560 And Michael, is there any athlete that people are more enamored by than him?

01:20:04.460 I don't think so.

01:20:05.120 Those two guys come together.

01:20:06.120 Yeah, it's just like...

01:20:07.220 So let's talk about the last dance.

01:20:09.080 Okay?

01:20:09.460 The first time you and I sat down, I brought up LeBron James.

01:20:12.000 And you had at one point said LeBron James was a closer.

01:20:14.400 But you said that like 12 years ago or 10.

01:20:15.940 I don't know the exact timeline.

01:20:16.920 But you said that even maybe when the book came out, you considered him a closer, not

01:20:21.200 necessarily cleaner.

01:20:22.120 And you have the whole cooler, closer, cleaner.

01:20:24.780 And the cleaner are guys like Michael and all these guys that are cleaners.

01:20:27.640 Okay, great.

01:20:30.460 He's a cleaner now.

01:20:31.920 Okay.

01:20:32.340 So here's my question for you.

01:20:33.440 Here's my question for you.

01:20:36.200 He's got four now.

01:20:37.540 He's a Laker now.

01:20:38.240 He's won with Miami.

01:20:39.160 He's won with Cleveland.

01:20:40.040 He's won with...

01:20:40.520 So he won for the city.

01:20:41.540 He won for two Miami.

01:20:42.480 He's over here now.

01:20:43.100 Okay.

01:20:44.540 Do you think the last dance is the worst thing that ever happened to the argument of

01:20:49.660 him being the greatest and passing up Michael?

01:20:52.520 I don't even think so before the last...

01:20:54.260 Listen, I'm going to be subjective on this, obviously, because of my relationship with...

01:20:57.660 You're not running for office.

01:20:58.620 Don't be too political here.

01:20:59.900 No, no, I'm not.

01:21:00.480 I'm curious about what you think.

01:21:00.920 But I'm just saying, all right?

01:21:03.420 I think even before the last dance, it just wasn't...

01:21:06.100 The only reason I say this is because...

01:21:07.900 Here's why I say this.

01:21:09.180 So, I'm 42.

01:21:12.600 I think if you're above 35, there is no argument.

01:21:15.620 Correct.

01:21:16.000 Okay?

01:21:16.260 If you're above 40, there is no argument, right?

01:21:18.220 But do you think the 22-year-old guy, the 28-year-old, the 26-year-old, maybe they didn't

01:21:22.180 get a chance to watch the...

01:21:23.300 Saturday morning, Michael's coming up against Chicago, he scores 52 points, 55 points, all

01:21:29.040 this other stuff.

01:21:29.520 You would see the guy's killer instinct.

01:21:31.520 Do you think the 22-year-old, like a generation that missed watching this guy play Sid, that guy's

01:21:38.360 a scary guy to face up against?

01:21:40.260 Do you think last dance hurt those guys' argument?

01:21:44.120 Oh, yeah.

01:21:44.680 It's just...

01:21:46.040 It's just...

01:21:47.160 There's so many of the younger...

01:21:48.520 I've had so many people that come up to me and say the footage of MJ on YouTube is enhanced.

01:21:56.460 There's no way anybody can do that.

01:21:59.560 They're like...

01:22:00.500 Photoshop is getting him to jump higher.

01:22:02.520 They're just like, there's no way he...

01:22:04.360 There's no way he can do that.

01:22:05.720 All right.

01:22:06.680 And I've had so many individuals now, they're just like...

01:22:10.500 It's just like...

01:22:11.260 Because they didn't get a scene.

01:22:12.260 They're just like, MJ's just a myth and ghost us.

01:22:15.560 We hear all these stories and we've heard all these things and it's just...

01:22:22.260 They just can't comprehend it.

01:22:25.920 They just can't comprehend it.

01:22:27.900 So the debate for you, it wasn't even a debate before, but the debate for you even afterwards,

01:22:32.500 nothing changed for you, but for somebody else, maybe they said, this wasn't my...

01:22:37.180 LeBron's probably watching that thing saying, ooh, they're going to say this, they're going

01:22:41.060 to say that, they're going to say this.

01:22:42.220 That's not good.

01:22:42.860 Because you know, LeBron's a legacy guy.

01:22:44.420 He said, I'm chasing the goal.

01:22:45.500 So it's not like he hasn't put it out there.

01:22:46.880 Right.

01:22:47.260 When he came out and said it, he's chasing one guy.

01:22:49.120 When he dunked the ball and he's looking at...

01:22:50.740 Yes, of course.

01:22:51.440 He's sending a message.

01:22:52.140 He is sending a message.

01:22:52.840 I wasn't looking at him.

01:22:53.860 I was just dunking the ball, but you know what he's doing.

01:22:56.680 Okay.

01:22:57.780 So who's on your top five all time?

01:23:00.620 Do you have a top five all time where you go, you know, let's say Michael's the greatest

01:23:04.100 and the second, do you have that?

01:23:05.800 I don't have a top five of all time.

01:23:08.400 If you were to pick it, who would it be?

01:23:09.720 Who'd be your top five?

01:23:11.040 Oh boy.

01:23:14.220 No one's going to watch this.

01:23:15.380 No, no.

01:23:15.620 I know what I'm saying.

01:23:16.120 He's probably going to get like two views here, so don't worry about it.

01:23:18.160 Well, obviously, Michael's going to be on there.

01:23:23.840 All right.

01:23:26.680 I'd have to put, I'd have to put, well, you know what?

01:23:29.820 Here's the thing.

01:23:30.280 If you look at, depending on the era of the game, if you're just, it could be, it's so

01:23:34.660 different.

01:23:35.180 I mean, if you're looking at the older game, you want, you definitely want Shaq in there.

01:23:38.980 All right.

01:23:39.660 You're just the way he was probably the most dominant player that you just gave him the

01:23:45.140 ball and he just, he just literally ran through everybody.

01:23:48.740 I would probably, I would want, I would take MJ.

01:23:56.680 I would take Kobe.

01:24:07.760 I'd put LeBron.

01:24:08.960 Larry Bird.

01:24:31.980 Who would my big be?

01:24:33.720 You got Shaq, Kareem, Wilt, maybe Akeem, but he would probably be on the list.

01:24:44.400 Yeah.

01:24:44.580 You know, I work with Akeem, so it's kind of difficult for me to keep him off, keep him

01:24:47.840 off that list.

01:24:48.540 But the way the game is played now, it's just like, I'd say Shaq.

01:24:56.940 Shaq.

01:24:57.680 Yeah.

01:24:58.440 That's a great list right there.

01:24:59.880 That's, you know, you got, it's hard to leave.

01:25:02.780 You put Bird in top five.

01:25:04.060 Wow.

01:25:04.400 You know why?

01:25:05.080 In this game here, people forget.

01:25:07.600 He's another one.

01:25:08.320 You go watch this.

01:25:09.280 He could do everything.

01:25:11.120 Larry Bird on a game decided, I'm just going to go shoot with the left hand today.

01:25:16.580 Who does that?

01:25:18.960 He's like, you're so bored with the competition that you come out and says, eh, I'm going

01:25:25.980 to beat these guys with the left.

01:25:26.880 I'm going to go, I'm going to play, I don't know if it was the first half or whatever it

01:25:30.360 happened.

01:25:30.640 He says, I'm just going to shoot the ball with the left hand.

01:25:32.620 Who does that?

01:25:35.200 Who does that?

01:25:37.260 He wasn't afraid of anybody.

01:25:39.020 Nobody.

01:25:39.540 And could do it all.

01:25:40.580 Yeah.

01:25:41.160 Could do it, could do it all.

01:25:42.640 You know, one of the reasons I put it, obviously defense isn't a, it isn't a primary thing

01:25:47.400 in this sport anymore, but you know, obviously we know Michael could play unbelievable defense.

01:25:52.020 We know Kobe could play unbelievable defense.

01:25:55.720 LeBron, when he chooses, he could play, he can, he can lock them down.

01:25:59.960 If they do get around anybody, you got this big, you got this big monster in the middle.

01:26:04.360 Destroy you.

01:26:04.900 Scare the hell out of you.

01:26:06.040 And all those individuals, the one thing they have is the ability to make everybody else

01:26:11.460 around them better.

01:26:13.300 That's the thing.

01:26:14.500 They all have the ability to make everybody else around them.

01:26:18.520 Dr. J comes out and he talks about, I'm sure you saw it when he comes out and he says,

01:26:23.000 Hey, you know, what do you think about your top five?

01:26:24.720 And he puts his top five.

01:26:25.620 He says, first team, second team, first team, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Elgin Baylor,

01:26:29.040 Bill Russell, Will Chamberlain, which obviously that's his era.

01:26:31.620 I get it.

01:26:32.680 And then he says, second team, he would put Magic, Michael, Larry, Malone, Kareem, the second

01:26:39.260 team.

01:26:39.640 So obviously Kobe's not on the list if he had to choose between.

01:26:42.100 I think the way he did it is positions.

01:26:43.780 One, two, three, four, five is the way he did it.

01:26:45.500 So he chose Kobe over, he chose Michael over Kobe.

01:26:49.060 He chose Magic over Steph Curry.

01:26:50.720 He chose Bird over, say, LeBron James.

01:26:52.700 He chose Malone over Duncan.

01:26:54.660 And he chose Kareem over Shaq.

01:26:56.560 Right?

01:26:56.780 And then they asked him, they said, wait a minute, where's LeBron on this list?

01:27:00.360 And he said, what were his words?

01:27:02.840 He says, he is the guy who has led the change in terms of super teams.

01:27:07.560 When he put together a team in Miami, he put together a team in Cleveland as well.

01:27:11.020 And he put together a team in LA so he can pick his own team.

01:27:13.920 I ain't going to pick my own team.

01:27:15.380 The guy turns around and says, I'm sure you saw it.

01:27:17.820 He says, well, LeBron's verdict would be, there's been super teams for a long time.

01:27:21.960 Everybody's had super teams.

01:27:22.860 You guys had super teams.

01:27:23.720 There was typically three or four all-stars on the same team.

01:27:25.700 He says, yes.

01:27:26.840 Last words, yes.

01:27:28.620 But we didn't go recruiting players.

01:27:30.960 He did.

01:27:31.840 So, one, thoughts on what he says.

01:27:34.540 Two, what do you think about LeBron not being on his top five?

01:27:38.180 Well, I mean, obviously, the top five is what you said.

01:27:40.520 That's his era.

01:27:41.260 These are the people that he knows with.

01:27:42.880 Listen, when you go to war, you're going to go with war.

01:27:44.880 You need to go to war with the makeup of the people that you know, that you can trust.

01:27:50.500 You know, you're allies.

01:27:51.900 These are his allies.

01:27:53.180 Makes sense.

01:27:53.740 These are his allies.

01:27:55.100 By the way, it's a great list if you think about it.

01:27:57.340 It's a great list to have here.

01:27:58.540 I mean, listen, you literally got the records.

01:28:01.640 Wilt has is unbelievable.

01:28:02.840 You talk about championships.

01:28:04.360 You know, everyone, that's the guy.

01:28:06.880 Elgin Baylor was the first person to do all the stuff.

01:28:11.460 The triple-double here.

01:28:12.560 Jerry West.

01:28:13.540 The logo.

01:28:14.040 The logo.

01:28:14.500 Yeah.

01:28:15.000 Anything else needs to be set.

01:28:19.160 So, that says it.

01:28:20.220 This was an era.

01:28:21.320 These are a lot of these individuals.

01:28:23.260 He competed.

01:28:23.860 You know, he competed.

01:28:24.540 He competed against Dr. J.

01:28:27.320 He competed against a famous fight with him.

01:28:30.880 Who was holding that?

01:28:32.120 Was Moses Malone holding him?

01:28:33.200 Somebody was holding Bird by the neck.

01:28:35.800 And Julius punched him three times in the face.

01:28:38.600 So, you know, whatever it is.

01:28:40.900 And, you know, Michael is obviously, everybody said, you know, he's the heir apparent to Dr. J.

01:28:47.400 So, he's had all the respect here.

01:28:49.900 You know, obviously, I'm not.

01:28:51.360 He did it.

01:28:51.840 He did it by position.

01:28:54.720 All right.

01:28:55.100 What?

01:28:56.800 If I'm putting this team together, I would.

01:29:00.080 If I had to take one person out of here.

01:29:07.360 Well, it depends.

01:29:08.260 If I had to take one person out of my second team.

01:29:12.240 I have a feeling I know who you're going to take.

01:29:13.640 I'd take out Karl Malone.

01:29:15.200 Who would you put instead of him?

01:29:16.640 Duncan.

01:29:19.680 I would put.

01:29:20.480 Yeah.

01:29:20.800 I mean, out of this team.

01:29:22.500 Keeping LeBron out of here.

01:29:23.980 If we're going to keep LeBron out of here.

01:29:25.720 All right.

01:29:26.140 I would put Duncan.

01:29:27.300 Even if you think about this.

01:29:28.400 I would put Charles before Karl.

01:29:30.580 I almost.

01:29:31.960 I'd put Charles before Karl.

01:29:33.220 Really?

01:29:33.700 Yeah.

01:29:34.360 I almost think he went 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s.

01:29:36.940 Because I don't think he went 2000, 2010, and today.

01:29:40.440 Because maybe he's going through era.

01:29:42.860 Then he's going through the greatest.

01:29:44.160 I don't know if that's going to be his top five list himself.

01:29:47.120 But, you know, again, the last dance, when I watched it, I was sending you a text.

01:29:51.460 I'm like, Tim, this is insane with the stories that you're hearing about this guy.

01:29:55.820 Left and right.

01:29:56.520 Everything that you're hearing.

01:29:57.400 It's all true.

01:29:58.140 That's the thing.

01:29:58.560 That's what makes it crazy.

01:29:59.660 By the way, when they recorded it, did they know?

01:30:02.780 When they recorded that season, did they know eventually they're going to do a last dance?

01:30:06.460 So that was the plan.

01:30:08.680 So that was always the plan.

01:30:10.380 But the only person that didn't sign off.

01:30:14.740 Phil or Michael?

01:30:15.800 It was Michael.

01:30:16.280 Well, everybody else signed off years ago.

01:30:20.700 I'm not signing off.

01:30:21.880 He goes, when it's time or when I decide to do this, I will sign off.

01:30:26.360 And originally, it was supposed to come out in the fall.

01:30:31.220 By the way, I mean, timing-wise, timing kind of worked in their favor.

01:30:35.620 Yeah, so they were just like, the last two episodes weren't even done when it started.

01:30:40.180 The last two episodes were not done.

01:30:42.300 Wait, so when we sat down and we watched the first two on a Sunday night?

01:30:48.400 They had still not finished the last two episodes.

01:30:51.580 The last two episodes were still not done.

01:30:54.180 Because they hadn't planned on showing it until, but then because of the pandemic and everything had.

01:30:59.740 And, you know, everybody, there's like, everybody's, so they literally went in and asked, hey, we need, we want to move the production up.

01:31:06.400 So they got in and moved the production up.

01:31:09.380 And it was, you know, that was everybody.

01:31:11.820 The one thing I have to say about Michael, and this is why I put him above everybody, whether it is kind of like Tiger also.

01:31:21.500 Whether you were a basketball fan or a golf fan, you were a fan of that.

01:31:31.780 You watch.

01:31:32.440 If you didn't enjoy golf, you would literally, you'd look up the paper to see what Tiger did or where he was playing, what was going on.

01:31:38.860 I had so many people that said, I'm not a basketball fan, but I'm a Michael Jordan fan.

01:31:42.960 But, so you had, those, those individuals, transcended individuals that had no interest in that sport.

01:31:51.380 You're going to love Tiger's documentary, by the way.

01:31:53.820 You're going to love Tiger's documentary.

01:31:55.020 Because they talk about that.

01:31:55.900 They talk about what he did to the game of golf and how much it changed and how many people are now watching.

01:32:00.380 Like the moment you hear about it, he's not in the Masters.

01:32:02.420 I have no interest.

01:32:04.040 Yeah.

01:32:04.340 And I'm not, obviously I'm not a golf.

01:32:05.900 I have no, but when Tiger was in it, glued to the screen, what's he going to do here at the restaurant?

01:32:11.680 Can you please change the channel from the football game?

01:32:14.280 Let's see what Tiger's got.

01:32:15.240 You were curious about what he was going to be doing.

01:32:17.440 I'll explain to you why.

01:32:20.180 For you.

01:32:22.980 I'm curious.

01:32:25.360 It's his identity.

01:32:27.960 You relate to his identity.

01:32:31.300 To Tiger's identity.

01:32:32.740 You relate to his identity.

01:32:33.580 When I, it's, I'm telling you, when you watch Tiger's documentary, it's very, very.

01:32:40.720 Interesting documentary.

01:32:42.680 And I do relate to the guy.

01:32:43.800 When I see him, I look at him, I'm like, oh my gosh.

01:32:45.660 I'm fascinated with the way this guy thinks.

01:32:47.900 Like, you look, we were at a poker tournament he put together.

01:32:53.440 It was myself.

01:32:54.180 It was Phil Hellmuth.

01:32:55.020 It was Tiger, Westbrook.

01:32:58.340 And you're just watching this guy on where he is and what state he's in.

01:33:02.260 Very unique character.

01:33:03.220 I would have loved for him to get his 19th.

01:33:06.440 But today, after what just happened recently, I think that's very unlikely of taking place.

01:33:11.080 Last thing we do before we wrap up here.

01:33:14.440 And, you know, I can talk to you for hours.

01:33:16.500 You know, these conversations, this is what, this is my drug.

01:33:20.120 I love hearing this mindset of winning.

01:33:23.500 You use a very technical scientific terminology in the book that I would want you, you know,

01:33:30.300 to share with the audience, obviously your background in kinesiology.

01:33:33.920 This scientific terminology you use, the I-D-G-A-F, can you tell us a little bit more about it?

01:33:40.100 You know, what do you mean by that they have this mindset?

01:33:43.340 That mindset is, this comes with a disclaimer.

01:33:46.720 I've done pretty good at keeping the language here.

01:33:48.460 Fantastic today, by the way.

01:33:49.860 I'm sure it's a-

01:33:51.440 No, you know what, Patrick?

01:33:52.880 You'll never forget this.

01:33:55.980 We did an event together.

01:33:57.820 And I don't remember where it was, but you and I did an event together.

01:34:05.020 And I remember you telling me, you actually, and I don't know if this talk was actually

01:34:09.960 directed to me or not, but you had said something about the language thing.

01:34:17.420 And I took it to heart.

01:34:20.440 I took it to heart.

01:34:21.540 I listened.

01:34:22.200 I wasn't offended.

01:34:23.360 I wasn't listening.

01:34:24.580 Because my agent, Sherry, was telling me the same thing.

01:34:27.820 She was telling me the same thing.

01:34:30.580 She goes, you have to know when to place and when not to.

01:34:34.340 And I remember everything that you told me about the thing.

01:34:37.400 Listen, yeah, we joke about I had the record for it.

01:34:40.360 Yes.

01:34:40.680 But if I was still doing that-

01:34:42.840 You wouldn't have done it that way?

01:34:44.000 You would have changed that?

01:34:44.760 I would not have said, I'm talking about if I'm still doing it now.

01:34:47.260 That means I didn't evolve as a better speaker.

01:34:53.040 I didn't have more to say.

01:34:54.120 My language was limiting.

01:34:58.720 It was limiting.

01:35:00.100 It was.

01:35:00.480 I took that to heart.

01:35:01.920 Most people, that's what I said, there's feedback and criticism.

01:35:04.200 Sometimes it's not-

01:35:05.300 People may be sending you a message.

01:35:07.540 Which, it may be directed to you, but it's not being-

01:35:12.180 What a memory you got, though.

01:35:13.300 Do you remember that?

01:35:14.260 I remember-

01:35:15.180 Because I was a speaker right before you.

01:35:16.680 Yes.

01:35:17.380 I remember.

01:35:17.980 And it was an awards ceremony night.

01:35:19.420 And you went up, and there's, I think, four people were asking you questions.

01:35:23.460 And they were kind of interviewing you, you know, the setting that you had.

01:35:26.420 And there was a couple guys there.

01:35:27.100 That's exactly, that's exactly.

01:35:28.280 I remember that.

01:35:28.820 And I remember, I remember he-

01:35:31.080 Was that New Orleans?

01:35:32.020 I don't know where it was.

01:35:33.540 I think it was Jeff.

01:35:34.540 Do you remember where it was that show?

01:35:36.160 Was it New Orleans?

01:35:37.100 Or no?

01:35:37.520 Was it-

01:35:38.140 It's something more than New Orleans.

01:35:40.260 Yeah.

01:35:46.980 Got it.

01:35:48.340 Got it.

01:35:48.980 I remember that.

01:35:50.380 I remember it.

01:35:53.620 And I just said, you know what?

01:35:54.600 In order for my next evolution, is that something that I need to work on?

01:36:01.700 I do.

01:36:02.660 This is a growth process.

01:36:05.320 I mean, I could have easily said, ah, forget that.

01:36:07.220 But going back to the idea that, listen, it's a I don't give a fuck muscle.

01:36:13.020 And you work out.

01:36:15.000 You're, you know, people, if you go at the history of you, people don't know one of your

01:36:20.020 main goals is to be a professional bodybuilder.

01:36:21.780 And you've had numerous professional bodybuilders on this show.

01:36:26.040 And you, you know, you've talked to them because their minds-

01:36:28.880 You talk about a sport where-

01:36:31.280 Details.

01:36:32.540 And there is no off-

01:36:33.980 Like, you can't-

01:36:34.880 In basketball and football, all these individuals, when they're training and they're preparing

01:36:43.280 for a game or whatever, they can still have a slice of pizza.

01:36:46.140 They can have a beer.

01:36:47.100 They can have a glass of wine.

01:36:49.940 Those bodybuilders, they can't.

01:36:52.960 Especially if you win it back to, like a Phil doing it seven.

01:36:55.840 Like, seven.

01:36:57.540 Ridiculous to be able to stay this point that long.

01:36:59.540 And then go off.

01:37:00.660 What did he do?

01:37:01.040 He took, what, a year and a half off and finishing the top three?

01:37:03.720 Mm-hmm.

01:37:03.960 Coming back, I mean, it's just, like you said, maniacal.

01:37:07.620 But we all have that muscle.

01:37:12.380 But just like any other muscle in your body, that muscle, people don't train enough.

01:37:20.500 And it gets weak and it gets soft.

01:37:22.300 So, when you need to use it, you don't have the ability to say it.

01:37:27.120 All right.

01:37:27.840 So, I don't give a fuck muscle is that muscle inside of you that blocks everything out.

01:37:36.140 Regardless of what anybody else, anybody, that doesn't mean you're not open to feedback

01:37:40.340 and criticism, but it doesn't, it takes you away from all the naysayers, from all the

01:37:46.740 haters, from all the lack of focus, from everything else that's coming in, that's trying to derail

01:37:56.080 you.

01:37:56.420 Or is that natural?

01:37:57.100 Is that like, I think, do you think this is something that you learn?

01:38:00.500 Like, there are certain parts of the game that you got to learn.

01:38:02.620 Do you think this is where Michael had to go and say, dude, listen, I honestly don't

01:38:06.680 give a flying, you know what, just who, is it an evolution for the individual?

01:38:10.840 It's an evolution.

01:38:11.620 And the one, I would say the individual that's probably that the younger audience can relate

01:38:16.360 to more than anybody else is LeBron on this.

01:38:20.060 We talk about it in the book, Winning.

01:38:21.660 You know, when he, when he first started with the media, he was extremely sensitive to what

01:38:26.140 everybody says.

01:38:27.100 Now it's at the point, he's just like, here it is.

01:38:31.340 This is what I'm going to talk about.

01:38:32.800 Here's my answer.

01:38:33.760 This is what, this is what, this is what I'm going to do.

01:38:36.760 That's one of the muscles he exercised throughout his career that is so freaking powerful.

01:38:41.380 That's a good point.

01:38:41.980 That is so, that is so powerful.

01:38:44.180 And he's, he's probably going to, going to be politically, this guy's not going away.

01:38:50.860 He's going to be doing stuff the next few decades.

01:38:52.800 I think he's got big aspirations and he's also another guy that's a pretty smart guy.

01:38:57.000 I don't know when it was when he started reading a lot of books, you would see him be pregame,

01:39:00.440 you know, going into the playoffs.

01:39:01.660 He's got the book there.

01:39:02.480 He would, you know, get away from social media and would just stay focused on his game.

01:39:06.500 His, every individual around him that he keeps around, and this is very special.

01:39:18.560 They're his close friends and they're his allies.

01:39:22.240 Very difficult to find both.

01:39:24.500 Very difficult to find both.

01:39:25.900 If it's funny you say this, because we were talking about Mark Wahlberg and Mark would

01:39:31.200 talk about, you know, everybody that's around him right now is people that he's known since

01:39:34.820 he was a kid, you know, when he's coming up in Boston, whatever it was, right?

01:39:38.180 That's not an easy thing to do for LeBron to turn his friends into individual stars themselves.

01:39:44.400 You know, all these other names, Maverick, all these guys that he's got.

01:39:46.760 Because that means you're growing and they're growing.

01:39:49.980 Yes.

01:39:50.180 That means you're growing and you're lifting them up.

01:39:52.020 You got to give the guy credit for being able to do that.

01:39:53.880 That's not an easy thing to do.

01:39:55.280 Exactly.

01:39:55.980 But that's why I think he's a different wiring than Kobe and Jordan.

01:39:59.000 I don't think he's the same wiring as those guys.

01:40:00.940 No, he's not.

01:40:02.200 He's not.

01:40:02.840 He's not.

01:40:03.800 Yeah.

01:40:05.540 But that just shows you there's more ways, there's more than one, there's more than one

01:40:10.620 path to winning.

01:40:11.740 There's more than, there's more than one way to get there.

01:40:14.940 Yeah.

01:40:15.100 You said the opening, you said, listen, there's not a lot of ways to get there.

01:40:16.740 There's not a steps to it.

01:40:17.820 You said, you know, winning, I can't give you the steps.

01:40:21.180 There's not like a formula.

01:40:22.140 But the guy that's going to win, he's going to figure out a way to do it his own way.

01:40:25.360 He's going to eventually get there.

01:40:26.140 And that's exactly what you said.

01:40:27.620 Listen, you and I, in this line of speaking, we don't tell people what to do.

01:40:40.560 That was one of the biggest criticisms I got about Relentless was you didn't tell it.

01:40:45.600 Well, your whole life, everybody's telling you what to do.

01:40:49.300 All right.

01:40:51.800 How you got to where you're at, how I got to where I'm at, where how these individuals that

01:40:56.440 we talk about in the book, there's the ability to what to think and how to think.

01:41:05.800 And there's a huge difference.

01:41:07.320 Everybody, a lot of the people in our space, it's all about, they give you information.

01:41:13.200 This is how you need to think.

01:41:15.000 This is the way it's done.

01:41:16.460 Here it is.

01:41:18.000 You lose your ability to how to think.

01:41:20.480 And when you learn to combine the both, and that's what winning requires you to do.

01:41:26.340 It's not, it needs you to gather the information, but it also needs you to be able to think on

01:41:31.660 your own.

01:41:32.680 The onus has to be on the individual at the highest level to want to make that decision.

01:41:36.900 You can kind of tell them where you can, you know, here's what you may want to think about.

01:41:40.340 Here's this, here's what this person did, here's what this person did.

01:41:42.660 But what do you want to do?

01:41:43.700 The onus has to be on the individual to want to take it at whatever levels they want to

01:41:47.120 take it.

01:41:47.180 But see, they want it simple because when you ask them, what do they want to do?

01:41:50.860 They don't know.

01:41:51.560 They want you to tell them.

01:41:53.240 They want you to tell them.

01:41:54.520 I don't think for the 1% of the 1%, I don't think that the 1% of 1%, I don't think it

01:41:59.600 works with those guys.

01:42:00.740 I think for, I think you can't get into 1% and show people here is if you do this, you're

01:42:04.300 going to get this.

01:42:04.780 If you do this, you're going to get that.

01:42:06.500 But there's the additional cycle level to go through that.

01:42:10.360 It's so much pain that you got to be willing to go through that.

01:42:13.540 I don't think you can do that for everybody.

01:42:14.860 Anyways, look, if you're watching this, when, when Tim comes out with a book, I don't wait

01:42:21.240 for it, I read it.

01:42:22.740 If you've not read Relentless or this, you got to buy both of them.

01:42:26.960 I'm not even recommending you just buy this book.

01:42:28.700 Of course, you got to buy this book.

01:42:29.880 We're going to put the link below for you to go buy it.

01:42:31.920 That'll be at the top of the link to buy this book.

01:42:34.140 But on the bottom, when you're ordering it, if it gives you the option to also buy Relentless,

01:42:37.860 I highly recommend you buy both and read both.

01:42:40.680 But obviously, this is the one that just came out.

01:42:42.480 I highly recommend you go get that book.

01:42:44.860 Tim, once again, appreciate you for coming out.

01:42:46.880 My pleasure.

01:42:47.500 And being on Valuetainment.

01:42:48.880 Every time I'm with you, I walk away.

01:42:51.240 Getting, you know, tips here and there.

01:42:53.580 Mindset, I'm like, oh, this is great.

01:42:55.300 You know, I'm getting sharper and sharper because your content speaks my language.

01:42:58.760 And you know what?

01:42:59.420 I know you've had some unbelievable guests on this show.

01:43:02.280 I know you've put on some unbelievable events.

01:43:05.080 And I've been honored to be a part of those events.

01:43:07.300 And that's special because I know everybody wants that invitation, but very few have gotten

01:43:13.660 it.

01:43:13.920 And I appreciate that.

01:43:14.660 Anytime.

01:43:15.320 I appreciate it for coming on.

01:43:16.300 You got it, buddy.

01:43:16.880 Thank you.

01:43:17.720 Learning about the mindset of winning never gets older, especially when it's coming from

01:43:21.080 Tim Grover.

01:43:21.800 If you've enjoyed the interview, comment below.

01:43:24.080 And if you haven't seen my first interview with him, click over here.

01:43:26.780 Or if you've never seen the interview with Kobe Bryant, click over here.

01:43:29.660 Take care, everybody.

01:43:30.300 Bye-bye.

Valuetainment - May 19, 2021

The Mindset of Winners： Lessons from Kobe Bryant & Michael Jordan

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