“The Quran Calls Jesus The Truth” - Christian Apologist REVEALS What Muslims REFUSE To Admit
Episode Stats
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Summary
In this episode, I sit down with my good friend, Rob, to discuss the position of women in the Quran and the Bible. Rob is a Muslim convert to Christianity and a believer in the doctrine of Jesus Christ.
Transcript
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if somebody goes and searches you and they type in your name and they go to views
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it's you and muslims back and forth back let's let's play one of them i'll play
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actually play the other one play this one here first that was my fears is this your first public
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debate so this is your first public debate go ahead rob yeah a woman can be beaten according
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to the glorious quran now do you want to get into a long discussion that's the what is the position
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of women in the quran and the bible i mean we can do that the book of revelation chapter 14
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verses 4 and 5 shows that women will not enter paradise he talks about revelation 14 that
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doesn't work read the context it's speaking of 144 000 of israel who were specifically chosen
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for a task after mentioning the 144 000 this is what you conveniently forgot revelation 7 verse 9
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i looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count from every nation tribe
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people and language standing before the throne in front of the lamb they were wearing white robes
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and were holding palm branches in their hands and they cried out in a loud voice salvation belongs to
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our god who sits on the throne and to the lamb that's the context do not misquote my scripture
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so so i mean this is this is where a lot of the stuff out there for you but what i want to do is
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before we go in here i just want to learn about you i want to know your story so walk me through
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how you go where you were at to now being able to sit down against any muslim pretty much and have a
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strong debate with them how did that happen by the way this debate i had just stopped bodybuilding
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just to give you a little background i come from a family of bodybuilders so in the 90s i used to train
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so when i see some of your handsome muscular staff you know i start getting envy and you know
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visa sin but yeah i was just looking at myself i even though i stopped bodybuilding i didn't stop
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eating as if i was a bodybuilder but to give you a little background i was born in kuwait 1972
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came to chicago in 1974 so pretty much i've been raised in america a chicagoan don't know much about
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the middle east though our parents are christian if you're from an assyrian background they'll either
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be typically part of the assyrian church of the east or in the case if you come from iran
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specifically they'll either be presbyterian because we had a lot of missionaries that came
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to the middle east and converted the assyrians to let's say presbyterianism but historically the
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church of the assyrians is in the west called the nestorian church now why do they call us nestorians
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it's not a compliment and i want to boggle you down with the details but there was a bishop in
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the fifth century named bishop nestorius who was accused of teaching that there are two persons in
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christ that he's a divine person human person and that's blasphemy and so the assyrians have been
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labeled nestorian but it's not a compliment it's meant to ostracize the assyrian church because the
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bible teaches and the church teaches christ is one person he's an eternal uncreated divine person
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who became flesh from the holy virgin so to say he's two persons is blasphemy so they were accused
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of holding to the two person theory of christ which is not true so that's my background and i don't know
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if you come from that background typically if you're from that background you'll be baptized as an infant
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but even presbyterians baptize infants but for a different reason so not to bog you with the details
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in the assyrian church water baptism is the means by which the spirit comes on you
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makes you one with christ so that you're already part of christ's body so he regenerates you he makes
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you alive unites you to christ presbyterians believe that water baptism is the sign that makes
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you a member of the covenant community the new covenant of jesus christ but it doesn't regenerate
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you it doesn't make you one with christ that's something you must do later on so there are some
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differences so i was baptized as syrian church of the east but my parents never told me about
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christianity i didn't learn about christianity from my parents never told me who jesus was
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what the bible is i remember going to church well they would take me to church but i didn't know
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what we're doing like once a week maybe once every couple of weeks you know christmas i had no idea
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none whatsoever but my introduction to christianity came from a nine-year-old
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a syrian boy named raymond malco from lebanon he preached to me the gospel of jesus christ in
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chicago yep at nine he was nine years old how old six and a half oh he's nine you're six and a
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half yes his grandmother was a godly saintly woman she was from a catholic background but his uncles
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on his mother's side they were taught baptist theology so if you're familiar with what they call
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the independent fundamental see i'm giving you too many like denominations but it is what it is
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there are a lot of denominations and the independent fundamental baptist denomination believe that you
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have to go soul winning win souls for christ so you got to go knock on doors and lead them into the
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sinner's prayer so his uncles taught him that theology so he would go soul winning so he found this soul
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and for the first couple weeks i just ignored him i thought he was crazy but then one day
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he got my attention because he said jesus christ and i'm giving you the gist remember i'm the six and
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a half i'm 53 you know and it's kind of sad you guys are younger than me that's scaring me and
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better looking and healthier lord i pray for that glorified body sooner than later so he told me
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jesus christ is a son of god see if i talk about the story you know i get a little emotional so
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and he told me that he loved me so much he died for me that rocked me at six and a half to know
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someone would love me that much to die for me so he taught me the sinner's prayer the sinner's prayer
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is you know you say lord jesus i'm a sinner come into my heart now being a kid i thought i had to
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recite that prayer word for word because we take everything literally right and he told me do it at
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night so i took him literally i had to wait till night so i was afraid i was going to forget the
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prayer and i kept reciting it and night came and i forgot it but i remember that night and i remember
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that i was in tears my mom was next to me and uh i told her i remember waking her up saying can you
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tell me how to invite jesus she thought i was crazy what are you talking about but i remember crying out
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to him you know and i said jesus i don't know how to invite you in
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but i want you in my life so six and a half he would do street evangelism there are people from
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the neighborhood chicago foster and clark street there are people who are listening who are going
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to remember this he actually would lead me and he would preach and we'd gather crowds a nine-year-old
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because it's shocking i mean a nine-year-old and he'd preach fire and brimstone and hell and i was
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just a sidekick i didn't know anything now you fast forward he had to relocate and i lost my elder
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brother because he was the one who held me accountable sadly my teenage years things happened
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broken family dad left i was very close to my uncle and he died of cancer but i believe it was 1982
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so he was closer to me than my father so i just gave up on everything and i started doing things
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i shouldn't have done you know teenage you go into drinking and you know things that we're not proud
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of but i had a huge emptiness in my heart because i've always suffered with two things in my life
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and these are symptoms of pride if you actually break it down symptoms of pride but nonetheless i
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suffered from low self-esteem and body dysmorphia which is still two demons that i have to slay to the
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to this day and because i had this low self-esteem and really really just body shamed myself i felt
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more depressed so i thought the solution would be bodybuilding why because my older brother started
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bodybuilding and if you know about bodybuilding you probably have heard of sergio olivia of course
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he was a chicago cop but he also had a gym he's got a son as well right now that competes incredible
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physique yeah oh really his son makes his father one of the greatest poses of all time yeah if you
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go to images sergio olivia his forearms he does this pose the one the fourth picture that one right
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there jeez look at that you should see a son it makes his father look like can you pull up his son's
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picture as well his son is vinnie you won't even believe it look at his son that's look at that that's
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the son to the right oh my goodness oh my damn this guy's incredible yeah yeah it's crazy so chicago
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so i said maybe you know what let me try bodybuilding now another thing is one of the biggest influences
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on my life wasn't a religious figure was bruce lee i still love bruce lee i just can't get over this
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guy and when i hear people saying oh he was an actor it's us that gets me angry what are you talking
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about man in the street fight will gouge your eyes out you know the myth of bruce lee so i thought in
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my very sick mind maybe i can get into kickboxing and bodybuilding and become the first assyrian movie
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star hey if bruce lee did it arnold schwarzenegger did it why not me well i realized the more i worked
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out the more miserable i became so there's a time in which i peaked i was like around 200 and i'm not
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trying to talk about you know i don't want people to think i'm just to give you an idea what god is
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doing he's allowing me to attain goals to see how empty i'll be so at one time i got to about 220
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pounds of solid muscle no fat on me and i was miserable i was depressed and i realized you know
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what maybe i should try god now this is around maybe like i'm close to 18 i don't even know the year
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because i was born 72 and i try to remember the exact year but it's in the 90s as i'm thinking about
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god i used to be the if you ever valet your car that you have valet parking well in chicago
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there was a restaurant called bub city it was in a very shadier side of chicago cabrini green so they
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had a parking lot and i was the security guy security dude right and the they call him the
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the term i'm looking for the guy who gives you the ticket i forgot the name for it his name was hal
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and he kept saying praise be to almighty allah now remember although my family's from the middle
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east they never mentioned islam once to me so i have no idea what islam is or who muslims are
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so he keeps saying almighty allah now you know we speak a syrian we say allah or allah
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so he got me interested so i said can i ask you a question how do you know this term
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so he started talking about minister louis farrakhan i have no idea what this guy's talking about then
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he says the honorable elijah muhammad the prophet muhammad and then he mentions master farad muhammad
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now i'm thinking it's the same muhammad turns out he's a member of the nation of islam
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nation of islam who's now the leader is still alive louis farrakhan hasn't passed away there he goes
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one of the most powerful charismatic speakers this man will captivate you and he does it from
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memory he doesn't have notes in front of him he'll quote the bible crown from remember this man is
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amazing in his recall and his speech so captivating and he mentioned the quran so i asked could you
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give me a copy well i read the quran and i was flabbergasted because here's a book that mentions
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the major prophets of the bible and jesus but it gives a different spin on it so i got really
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confused so in the back of the book you have like you know table of contents not table i'm sorry index
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of names so i went look for jesus and every place that jesus showed up in the quran and i believe the
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translation was abdullah yusuf ali at that time was the most popular quran translation now it's obsolete
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but in the 90s this was the translation that muslims would give out and he's got copious notes
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right to indoctrinate you man i ate it up i was shocked to find jesus in the quran and this is one
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thing that non-muslims when they encounter islam the shock effect because they think muslims are the
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other side they're all evil they're terrorists and then they find out that they have more in common
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with christianity than even judaism does this is a fact islam is closer to christianity than judaism
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because islam recognizes jesus it says he's the messiah born of the virgin in fact the quran says
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that the greatest woman allah created is mary and she's the only woman mentioned by name in the
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entire quran women aren't mentioned so if we're looking at his mom not not even uh the prophet's
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no muhammad's parents you don't even know whose parents are you don't even know his historical
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context if you just want to go to the quran it doesn't even situate the quran for you you don't
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know is what century is this all you know it's in arabic but when was it sent down you need external
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sources even when muhammad was born you need external sources because muhammad is mentioned
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by name four times but even then you can make a case that it's not really the name of a prophet
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but it's a descriptive noun meaning the praised one and some people actually postulate that what
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you have in the quran is actually christian hymns that were then bastardized into arabic
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originally in syriac a lot of theories some of the theories are strong so again as i read the quran
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i got baffled but here's where training your children and the way to go
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pays dividends because of that young boy teaching me the christian faith
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planting seeds in my heart my reaction was to go back to the new testament
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i go wait let me read the new testament and i remember reading it man i fell in love with jesus
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all over again in fact i missed him you know i missed him
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i'm not supposed to cry i'm gilu you know that right
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jesus makes even the toughest of men cry like babies because he's infinitely beautiful and we
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are infinitely less and filthy but as i read the new testament i fell in love with him all over again
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there's no one like jesus even those who do not believe in religion when they read for example the
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sermon of the mount they're in awe of his message they even realize this is not human this is heavenly
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the way he teaches about to treat your enemies and this is something out of this world and it is
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it's not from this world it's from a higher realm heaven i fell in love with him but then i had a problem
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what do i do with muhammad because i was convinced muhammad was a true prophet because he was sincere
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they gave me a biography because then i yeah to i forgot to add the details then i discovered
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malcolm x i forgot to mention that because malcolm x is a big figure in the nation yes he was the one
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who pretty much made the nation of islam but then he realized that elijah muhammad who was the man who
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claimed that master farad muhammad sent him so there was a man named master farad muhammad and he went
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to elijah whose name was elijah pool in michigan and he said pretty much i want to appoint you as a
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prophet to liberate my people and this theology teaches that allah is a black man so it's not islamic
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you go to predominant muslim country that practices you tell them allah is a black man
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your body's going to be over here and your head will be over there on a trophy so this is a but i
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didn't know so i started reading malcolm x and then alex haley is autobiography by alex haley
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i didn't understand a lot of the code terms because he kept saying them t-h-e-m in the book
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then i realized it was an abbreviation for the honorable elijah muhammad
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but a story captivated me because supposedly on a trip to mecca he discovered true islam
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and i thought man if islam could do for this or if islam could do for me what it did for this guy
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maybe islam is a solution but that's when i went back to the new testament the lord saved me but i had
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read a sanitized biography on muhammad that made him look very very devout sincere and so i didn't
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know what to do with him because if he's sincere and he's willing to suffer for his claims then
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obviously he's not lying but what he says about jesus contradicts what the new testament says
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how do i reconcile that it took me maybe two years to finally and i know it's not a politically
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correct message but it is what it is that's why islam is not christianity christianity is not islam
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we're not the same we have differences so islam thinks that christianity has been perverted corrupted
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the new testament has been changed we believe that there are many antichrists who come into the world
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you know i know muslims will get offended but it is what it is jesus in john 14 6 explicitly says i am
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the way and the truth and the life no man comes to the father except through me he didn't say i'm
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one of many ways i point you to the life and i can bring you to the father among many he goes no i am
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the truth the life now even from an islamic perspective no prophet can say he's the truth
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the life because islam recognizes those titles as belonging only to the god of islam which they
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believe is the god of amram so for jesus to say he's the truth he just claimed to be more than a man
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from an islamic perspective to say you're the life you just claim to be more than a man and he says
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you want to get to the father you want to be with me you want to dwell with me you better come to me
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and accept me as i am but the jesus of the new testament who's the christ of history is not a
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muslim prophet his name is not isa ibn mariam he did not announce the coming of ahmed because the
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quran says in chapter 61 verse 6 that the good news of jesus is that he announced the coming of a
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messenger after him named ahmed that's in 61 verse 6 of the quran you guys can see it so if you ask the
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muslim what is the gospel of christ oh he predicted the coming of muhammad that's 61 verse 6 if you want to
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see it rob can you pull it up 61 verse 6 in the quran yeah there you go and remember when jesus son
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of mary said oh children i'm allah truly allah's messenger to you confirming the torah which came
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before me and giving good news of a messenger after me whose name will be ahmed that's the good news of
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islam he prepared you for muhammad because ahmed is nothing nothing for muhammad right that's what they
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tell you so that's their good news that's not the jesus of history the jesus of history claims to be
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the very god in such a way that even the quran acknowledges no man can claim the titles he claimed
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when i said that one of the names of allah is the truth al-haq and he is the life and he's also the
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first and the last well if you go to chapter 22 for six to seven there you're going to see the names
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of allah pretty much plagiarized from what jesus said prior to the quran you think if i didn't tell
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you this is allah speaking you think that you're reading the gospel of john because what is said
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about god here the allah of islam is exactly parroted from what jesus says in the gospel of john
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which comes 600 years earlier here you'll see it so chapter 22 verse six to seven says that is because
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allah is the truth al-haq that's one of the names of allah and because he gives life to the dead
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and because he is over all things competent now here's an interesting part in verse seven
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and that the hour is coming no doubt about it that allah will resurrect those in the grave see only
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allah gives life and resurrects the dead and he's the truth well if i go to the gospel of john chapter
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five jesus said all those things but he applied it to himself if you open up john chapter five
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you're going to have to open up the entire chapter because we're going to look at verse 21
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so now watch here now watch jesus say what the crown says of allah but he says it's 600 years
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before muhammad showed up so who's plagiarizing whom it's not jesus plagiarizing allah now watch
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here if he goes to john 5 he'll open it up verse 21 yeah we're going to open up the entire chapter
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if you can if you go to biblegateway.com you're going to find bibles galore you mean i'm i'm moving
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faster than the great rob what happened rob brother so you can't keep up with the assyrians
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especially if he's jidu you know now if you open up john 5 just put john 5 it's going to open up
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now remember what allah is it said about allah he's the truth he gives life yes and then the
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hour is coming where he will raise sounds familiar oh right here john 5 21 watch here let's go here
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21 now watch right in the middle for just as the father raises the dead and gives them life even so
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the son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it so father and son both give life but in 25 if you
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watch verse 25 verily truly i tell you now this translation niv says a time the little translation
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is an hour is coming if you read it it's an hour because niv is more of a paraphrase so some bibles
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do not translate literally because in translating literally you lose meaning so they have to
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paraphrase so this is a paraphrase in fact we as syrians can relate if i say if you translate
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english and say what the hell are you talking about yeah right yeah that's how it is with languages so
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sometimes you can't translate literally you got to translate meaning but literally it says
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very truly i tell you an hour is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the son
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of god not allah the son of god and those who hear will live now 28 29 says something amazing
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because the quran says the hour is coming have no doubt about it well allah will raise them from
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their graves but who does that according to our bible do not be amazed at this for a time is coming
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when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out whose voice the son of god
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so if i were to compare what jesus says of himself with what said about allah clearly jesus claimed to be
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god because the things jesus says is ascribed to the islamic deity not to a prophet so a prophet cannot
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speak this way if islam is true so what do they tell you your bible's corrupt another passage john you
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brought it up john 14 6 right we read that i'm sorry notice there he says i am the way and the truth
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on the names of allah and the life so clearly the jesus of history is not asa he did not announce
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coming muhammad so from a christian perspective as offensive as it may be facts are facts if we
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all believe the same thing we'd be the same religion